June 2019 - Football Recruiting/Transfer Thread Part Deux

Discuss and share any Virginia Tech related recruiting topics from June 2019 [0] that don't warrant their own thread [1]. Please do some digging to share original content (e.g. embed the original tweet, not a link to another post/website with said tweet), add context / relevant information and respect the Community Guidelines.

[0] If someone would like to make this thread from month-to-month, let Joe know, he is apt to forget and pressed for time. Or simply copy the boilerplate and start a new thread.
[1] New commitments, decommitments, portal entries, etc... deserve their own thread. Please read the brief best-practice tips at the top of the recruiting forum.
[2] 2021 is our year!
[3] Cheese is delicious
[4] Michael Jordan > LeBron James
[5] Cake>Pie
[6] There is no 6

Forums: 
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

All the CBS are for NC State, is this someone we were interested in?

Yes, but if we were only taking 1 safety prospect in this class, I'd kinda rather take Malcolm Greene, but that's just my opinion.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Makes sense!

Lakeem Rudolph is our safety target

We cooled on him since the Fall. Could be decent developmental player in my opinion but Green and Rudolph have higher upside.

...been kinda dry on the recruiting front lately, yeah?

Looks like our players have to help out the coaches as much as they can on the recruiting trail nowadays.

Pour some Beer on it

Anyone have any insight or guesses as to what the hell is going on? Our recruiting class is currently ranked 74. I don't want to hear "it's early" because it's just as early for the 73 other schools ahead of us, including powerhouses like South Alabama and UTSA.

Aside from Vice, I don't think any of our coaches are above average recruiters, but I also don't think they're this bad. Makes me wonder if Trevon Hill is going around and DMing all our targets or something... (last part is /s/)

A lot of services rank based on number of recruits. This being a small class will keep us down. I would worry too much about this class. We're going to be small and selective. I would guess we'll finish around 40th.

We put the K in Kwality

I'm aware that class size is taken into account. If you go by average player rating, we're 54 which is still pathetic. The issue is not the small class, the issue is low-3 star talent.

I am not trying to claim we are crushing it, but these were the team recruiting rankings on June 1st, 2017. It's still early.
Updated team rankings:
1 Miami
10 Tennessee
11 Clemson
14 Baylor (how do they have a program still)
16 Northwestern (? They're why we don't get NCAA video games)
20 Kentucky
21 Virginia Tech
22 Duke (I'm glad we are ahead of Duke)
28 Kansas (How?)
36 UVA
39 UNCheat (I hope the NCAA finally does something)
53 WVU
54 Vanderbilt
59 Louisanna Tech (yes, they are ahead of Bama)
63 Western Michigan
64 Alabama
67 UGA

I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers. For example, Alabama is ranked 2nd with two 5-stars and a boatload of 4-stars. For them to jump from 64 on June 1 to 2nd today, that means they must have had 10+ guys commit in the past two weeks. A quick scroll through their commits shows that's not true.

Sorry I meant June 1st 2017.

I edited to fix that

Last year was supposed to be a small class, then they took 23 kids.

We've had 6-7 seniors on this team last year and this. The big classes from the last 2-3 years are becoming the core of the team. There is little room and it will be a small class. You also need to consider that we've added transfers and guys like Hooker and McClease came back after entering the portal.

Did we take more than 25 either year? I don't recall that we did?

Looks like 24 in 2019, 26 in 2018, 26-27 in 2017. However, 5 from 2017 have left (AJ Bush, Bryce Watts, Aundre Kearney, Pimpleton, Savoy). 1 from 2018 (Goode) is not longer on the team.

So if my math skills have not completely faded, we have recruited 76(ish) players over the last 3 years and 5 are no longer with the program YTD. (That's like 93% retention over 3 years)..

I realize that as the pecking order of starters shakes out this may change. Guess my point is that Fuente doesn't seem to have an attrition issue with his recruits.

Now this would be interesting to compare among other programs!

It's going to take a LOT of attrition for us to not have a small class this year. We need a decent amount of attrition to even have a mid teens class.

including powerhouses like South Alabama and UTSA

๐Ÿ˜‚

I think the 6-7 record is a bigger problem than the small class size. Kids and HS coaches are more unsure at the direction of the VT program now than anytime in a generation.

I think we rebound this year and win 9 or maybe more games. This will let us fill up our relatively small class with a lot of late bloomers and decommits. In my 20+ years following college football recruiting, it seems to be late bloomers and decommits succeed at a relatively high level.

Do I wish we had hit more on our A-list recruits? Absolutely. Does Fuentes staff have a recruiting problem? Well, it's certainly not a strength.

But I think the main problem is the uncertainty in the program (Buds status a big part of this as well). We need some wins to improve our status.

What's going on is that you are now becoming acquainted with the limitations of HC Justin Fuente as a recruiter.

The class will improve and likely wind up somewhere in the high 20s - low 30s.

IIWII.

The good news is that football is due for a decline in popularity/influence so you probably won't care as much about it in 10 years.

I'm gonna like football 10 years from now just to show you

this made me feel better about our current recruiting class.

This actually makes me feel worse since we currently sit 54th (assuming NYCHokie did his due diligence) on average player ranking.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

I wait to save some judgement until the end of the recruiting cycle. While Fuente and Co. have struggled to land some big names, they've consistently landed guys that have gotten big bumps in the rankings as the recruiting year winds down. I think Hyatt will make big jumps and it will be interesting to see if any of the others do too.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Bumps up might happen, but your first statement about landing big names leads me to believe we will finish the year around 50th as I doubt we fill the last three spots with 5 star guys.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

The judgement is also that we are struggling to recruit our positions of greatest need. If Hyatt gets bumped to a 4 star it still does nothing to help our DT and CB holes.

If those holes don't get addressed I'm starting to think Bud is headed towards retirement. I don't see him as active on the trail this season. New wife, post knee sugary etc.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Like clockwork Fireman comes in hot with the deflection to Bud.

Cool so it's not the DC/LB/DL coaches job to fill holes on the defensive side of the ball? Also I came with a factual statement Bud hasn't been on the trail recently as much as other coaches. He did just have knee surgery. But you have facts that say different bring them on out.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Let's review things that happen constantly on this board in regards to recruiting:

Diehard Fuente apologists (like yourself) will post about how the recruiting classes have been largely the same or better, or reference the number of blue-chip prospects that we have landed under Fuente is more than Beamer.

Let's take a look at those 19 blue-chip prospects: 19 four star recruits from the 2017, 2018, and 2019 classes (Fuente's full-time classes)

9 are on defense, 10 are on offense. Last year this number skewed into the offense's favor with the late fringe 4star bumps given to Keshawn King, Tayvion Robinson, and Jacoby Pinckney.

You have no problem quoting those blue-chip numbers, 9 of which are from defense, to credit Fuente's recruiting as being better than people realize.

Yet, as soon as someone points out a recruiting miss, talent, or depth concern at a defensive position you are the first one on the scene to make sure to deflect the blame onto Bud.

Do we give Fuente credit for defensive signings, but anytime we miss on someone or have a roster issue at a defensive position it's all Bud's fault? You don't get to have it both ways.

Additionally, you can hang onto that line about his knee-surgery as if you've only been deflecting blame onto Bud since he had the operation, but you have been doing this song and dance long before that happened.

Quite frankly, I don't think Fuente is necessarily doomed as a recruiter. I think there is a chance he improves drastically. I don't think Fuente is a bad coach, and I'm not burning down the doors trying to get him fired. However, it annoys the shit out of me when people refuse to allow any criticism to be levied against him at all.

Didn't Dabo "suck" at recruiting his first few years? Coach Beamer?

Winning = Recruiting improvement.

TBD

Yeah, recruiting is a real differentiator at the head coach level. Dabo has proven to be a legit difference maker there. Fuente may very well be a greater offensive mind or even better in game decision maker. But I think Dabo would bring in superior recruiting results, even at VT. And given his ability to hire and retain top coordinators and staff, I think it's obvious he'd find success with that recipe almost anywhere at the P5 level. Fuente's a fine coach, but I've come to accept that he really isn't going to move the recruiting needle much... at least not to the level necessary to compete for championships. That's fine for me at this point as long as he stops losing to inferior teams like ODU, Pitt, GT, etc... Unfortunately, I don't think that will keep Lane stadium filled.

Dabo $winney i$ and ha$ alway$ been a $uper great recruiter but nobody'$ cracked the code yet and figured out how he doe$ it

Recruit Prosim

Didn't Dabo "suck" at recruiting his first few years?

No

Winning = Recruiting improvement

Also no

Dabo recruited at normal Clemson levels, which were higher than VT recruiting. Only in the past few years has he been killing it.

Cool then find the many many things he does that should be and have been critiqued even by me the Fuente banner Carrier. But to say on a post about DL and CB recruiting that Bud hasn't been on the trail much your strange fascination wit disagreeing with everything I say is odd.

This is historic not new, Bud and Wiles have never brought in 4/5 star DL on a regular basis. But suddenly the lack of DL talent is Fuente's fault for many.

My main point of my post is Bud thinking about retirement. : Contract up for renewal, new marriage, health etc. combine this with the very real evidence that he isn't as far as I can tell as active on the camp and recruiting circuit it's a discussion to be had. But instead you jump to this tantrum about always defending Fuente.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Let's take a look at those 19 blue-chip prospects: 19 four star recruits from the 2017, 2018, and 2019 classes (Fuente's full-time classes)

quote is is from you . So last year these recruiting classes you referenced means we have averaged 4th in the ACC a 14 team league so what exactly did you expect ? Also as far as last years team ,the 2018 group was true freshman . I mean really are you guys that blind . I mean the Edmunds boys did not do crap till they were a sophmore or R sophs and I watched the VT defense with all these studs Like Walker ,Settle, Edmunds when they were underclassmen either they weren't playing or they were part of a group that absolutely got gashed by a Tulsa team in the bowl giving up 562 yds . I mean the 2019 group have not even played a down yet for VT. The story is on paper Fuente has recruited pretty much to my expectations but we don't know yet because his classes are just now getting to the years were most classes ,players contribute . Point is that starting this year we can start to judge the recruiting results of the Fuente recruits but up to now we don;t know other than the ratings and they were decent to good better than 10 other teams in the same conference . Bottom line is that we had almost no seniors last year and fewer this year we are very underclass heavy will return 20 starters next year .
If we don't start to improve this year and next then criticism is expected. He will own it as it is his recruits who are putting up the win loss record and regardless of how high or low those recruits were rated when he recruited them they are his and it will be his baby good or bad . You and others may not like it but it does take time and some experience for these guys to reach their potential in most cases

Coastal 1

The point of my post was not about whether or not these recruiting classes will turn out to be good in the long run, but the phenomenon of people giving Fuente credit for all these defensive blue-chip recruits, but then absolving Fuente and blaming Bud entirely for any recruiting misses, talent, or depth concerns on the defensive side of the ball.

My point was you can't praise him for all the blue-chip defensive recruits we land, then turn around and absolve him from any blame for those we miss.

Well I agree with that it is Fuente both offense and defense he is the head man and he owns it and if
it is not happening at a spot or recruiting ect he needs to address it one way or the other .

Coastal 1

Edited to eliminate noise.

Going at it? One tweet and he blocked me because people don't like to be called out on their views that harm others, but sure.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Just an opinion, but this is toeing the signal to noise ratio line. This sub thread has already gone way the hell off track. We don't need something else thrown in the mix that is bait to go to another site and look up discussion that we definitely don't need dragged back here.

It's irritating enough that things are slow right now and everyone wants to rip each other to shreds.

Anybody that thinks coaches have the primary impact on recruiting are kind of missing the big picture, its all about that $$$ (both legal and probably illegal). Awhile ago I did a little analysis of revenue vs. both recruiting class ranking as well as average recruiting rating. Both had an incredible correlation with revenue. Obviously there are coaches who punch above their wait (Dabo) however for the most part recruiting is very predictable. In fact, Fuente is actually over-performing when you consider VT ranks in the 40s in total revenue. If you are unhappy with recruiting you can do one two things: 1) Either accept that VT is VT and recruiting will always be what it is or 2) start raising money because that is the only way to change it.

Kazby

Can't argue this coaching staff has really struggled filling holes on the recruiting trail since Galen Scott left.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

That's because Scott was busy ONLY filling holes on the recruiting trail

Can't expect a well-balanced roster when Scott kept filling the wrong hole...

So easy it was like cheating

Recruit Prosim

Looks like Hyatt visiting Tenn.

Is this something that isn't concerning people. Usually a commit taking OVs isn't good but this hasn't picked up much news.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

In the defense of the complainers, average rating per recruit is a pretty reasonable complaint.

Twitter me

I am curious. Bud got a new wife? Divorce? Worse? Haven't heard anything on this front, granted, I live in Kansas, so VT news can be a little sparse.

I hate rude behavior in a man. Won't tolerate it.

He got divorced and then married his 2nd wife recently. I think a lot of his divorce stuff was going on last season.

How does one come across this information exactly? I knew he had knee surgery, but man how do you go about finding out a coaches marital status? Is that the dark web? Is it on the Sabre, because I refuse to try and read that site.

Probably the same way this kind of stuff gets out for normal people. Gossip around town, rumors, etc. In the case of a college coach, someone around town who frequents a message board drops what he heard and it spreads like wildfire from there.

I have a friend who works at Tech who mentioned it as part of the "off field issues" mentioned last season about Bud.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

A lot of it was heart related

Recruit Prosim

And I have a great aunt who lives in Blacksburg and runs with the high fallutin' Blacksburg socialites. Her best friend lives across from Whit at the country club. For all the information that "leaks", I will say the Buzz Williams saga was kept under wraps big time. No moving trucks, no christmas trees at the curb, no extra trash at the curb, nothing.

You mean him coming to Tech or him leaving?

Leaving. That's the only time I've ever prodded for info and there was none.

Buzz also didn't live in the country club neighborhood, so he kept himself and his family away from that circle. He lived in a place with plenty of space between him and his neighbors.

Didn't he live on Coal Bank for a while?

Up on Brush Mountain, off of Coal Bank. Big lots, lots of trees, doubtful you see your neighbors often.

Oh ya, I forgot he moved up there. I knew the people that bought his first house. It was pretty nice already.

VT is dead last in the ACC in total composite rankings (the total number of the combined recruits). I'm not so worried about that as this is a small class. What has me concerned is that we are number 11 (behind LOLUVA by a few slots) in the average composite ranking.

I'm not one to say that I'm "done with VT recruiting", but it isn't good to have one of the worst classes in arguably the worst P-5 football conference.

Is it basketball season yet?

Is the ACC really the worst P5 conference? What has PAC done? Or BIG 12 as a conference that elevates them over ACC?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Last year I'd say we're at least 4th or worse. But people forget back in 2016 many were saying the ACC was the best in the league. 6 top 15-20 ish teams, and the SEC didn't have shit besides Bama. These things change so fast, not set in stone in the least

Did you really just imply that the ACC is better than the B1G?

Recruit Prosim

Meant 12

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

That's better

Recruit Prosim

Its....

....June

...and you'd be hard pressed to find a worse class this late in the year in the last 15-20 years, and that doesn't even include the fact that signing day was April, not December. It's very naive to dismiss the current status of the class.

247Sports confirmed on Monday evening that Portsmouth (VA) 2020 four-star defensive end/linebacker Antwaun Powell will not officially...

I'm confused... Is someone unexpectedly visiting campus or unexpectedly skipping a previously planned visit?

Twitter me

Powell is skipping the Michigan "super recruit weekend". He is currently at UF.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

So if he's currently at UF, is this good or bad for us?

Twitter me

Powell will not be visiting Michigan this weekend

And before anyone's says anything about share paywall info, I literally copied the 1 sentence they give you before it says you need to be a member or whatever.

Btw this is also my Bibliography
Sources 247sports.com

Please stop doing this. It's just noise on the board unless you have a subscription. Thank you for your help.

This is "the noise" you are worried about? I was letting people on here no that Powell cancelled his Michigan visit

I am not going to argue with you. You embedded a tweet to a paywall article (against the Community Guidelines) and then posted the excerpt of said article, which without a subscription is extremely confusing. Hence the immediate reply of:

I'm confused... Is someone unexpectedly visiting campus or unexpectedly skipping a previously planned visit?

Please stop. Thanks!

My apologies Joe,
I used proper reasoning and deducting skills to let people know our #1 Target is cancelling his official visit to our top competition at the time.

Plus I was following this line of the Community Guidelines: Share original content (e.g. embed the original tweet, not a link to another post/website with said tweet)

I hear you. But the Community Guidelines are there for a reason. And even though their enforcement is some times unpopular, check my downvotes, doing so has kept TKP as civil as possible for a community of its size. I appreciate you abiding by them moving forward.

Armani Chatman recently tweeted "I might have got us one." This could be what he was referring to.

I'm just here to get let down.

When Armani was a Jr. in HS he had a cryptic tweet before Devon Hunter committed. My trust is in Mr. Chatman.

He was indeed referring to Powell. Not completely done yet though. He's open to UF for sure

So are we not supposed to be worried post spring game, post recruit bbq, that this class is currently ranked 80th on 247?

Worrying won't change a thing. I'd recommend postponing the worrying for now and enjoy the summer.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

What if everytime we worry we donate to the Hokieclub, then our worrying may literally chane some things

My bank account can't support Hokie-offseason levels of worry.

And my liver can't support Hokie-gameday levels of worry.

Click here to destroy wall.

The class is really small, so we knew the ranking was going to be low. The bigger concern is the average ranking of the few recruits we have space for, and whether or not the recruits we get address positions of need.

Twitter me

Who is suggesting we shouldn't be worried? Everyone is worried, that's why they come to this site.

Alright to be the voice of grounded reality in this thread:

We are not in a great spot at the moment, but all is not lost yet.

If we land Powell and Lambert and convince Feaster to transfer here, it will turn this class around in a huge way.

If we miss on all three of those recruits and finish 50-something in recruiting , it's hotseat time.

If we don't secure 9 wins against one of the softest P5 schedules this year or at the very least show promise, it's time to clean house.

Recruit Prosim

If we miss on all three of those recruits and finish 50-something in recruiting , it's hotseat time.

If we don't secure 9 wins against one of the softest P5 schedules this year or at the very least show promise, it's time to clean house.

O V E R R E A C T I O N
V
E
R
R
E
A
C
T
I
O
N

Hot Seat for recruiting on a small class, after a bad season? How about we see what happens on the field last time I checked there are no rewards for a top 50 class. 9 wins is surely obtainable but if that's your clean house line you're not realistic.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Last time I checked nobody was actually able to compete with sub-50 ranked classes

Recruit Prosim

Yeah if that was the norm. A one off, small class with some bad misses doesn't tank a school.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Really....cant think of one team that has been able to compete with low recruiting rankings....not one?

Team Rank
Clemson 1
Alabama 2
Ohio State 3
Oklahoma 4
Notre Dame 5
LSU 6
Florida 7
Georgia 8
Texas 9
Washington State 10
UCF 11
Kentucky 12
Washington 13
Michigan 14
Syracuse 15
Texas A&M 16
Penn State 17
Fresno State 18
Army 19
West Virginia 20
Northwestern 21
Utah State 22
Boise State 23
Cincinnatti 24
Iowa 25

Its weird, but I get the feeling some of yall would rather be Florida State than Kentucky last year...

I think those of us would rather play the odds than grasp at outliers to justify the poor performance on the trail.

13 of 25 is not an outlier...

its actually the higher percentage.......

half of the teams...

every

single

year..............

Its statistically not an outlier

i have no idea what your table is trying to tell me. is it just the final ranking of teams? what does it tell us about how well they recruited? where did you pull "13/25"? how are you defining "compete"? where does anything say every single year?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Chumps....I don't know that you're supposed to question him. He will do/has done the research and will put it in a chart. Be prepared, your answers are coming in chart form.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

i just think another column with 2018 4 year trailing recruiting ranking would be helpful to establish the point he might be (?) trying to make

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I'm not him but I'm gonna guess you're going to get that based on his recent impressive chart research and replies.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Nope, "too much work" so we get a nice looking chart with zero informational value to the conversation. this whole thing is meaningless and noise

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

As was mentioned above, I don't understand this response. What is 13/25? Half of what teams every year? Kentucky having a single better season than FSU is not an outlier?

If the point you're trying to make is that recruiting rankings don't matter, we've got different definitions of success and what an 'outlier' is. Utah State had a good year and sneaked into the final rankings. That doesn't make them a better program than Florida State or Virginia Tech

Ha

I am not going to put it in a nice chart because its too much work.

His statement that teams who dont recruit above 'x' level cant compete is not true.

Washinton State
UCF
Kentucky
Washington
Syracuse
Fresno State
Army
West Virginia
Northwestern
Utah State
Boise State
Cincinatti
Iowa

All those teams based on a quick glance look to have classes outside the top 50, top 40 for sure...

So his statement is not true, you can compete with classes outside the top 50.

Washington's last 4 recruiting rankings were 16, 16, 22, 29 and I'm pretty sure they're the only team on this list to win a P5 conference championship in a long time. Also Kentucky is consistently ranked in the 30s for recruiting.

WSU hasn't won the PAC since 2002. WVU has t won the Big12 yet. Kentucky hasn't won the SEC since the 70s. Northwestern hasn't won the Big10 since 2000. Iowa hasn't won the Big10 since 2004. Syracuse hasn't won the ACC ever.

And LOL G5 at the rest of your list.

The only relevant team on your list recruits well. If you want us to be like the rest of those teams, idk what to say besides I understand why you're satisfied with the current coaching staff.

Recruit Prosim

You're moving the goalposts here. Original comment was about sub 50 classes competing. Top 25 teams are competing. Displacing the blue bloods in each conference to bring home the trophies is a whole different conversation and will involve more than any coaching change could achieve. But, I would agree that recruiting is a key element to make that happen, the coach only has so much power to move the needle though.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

I don't think anyone is moving the goalposts. I think there are some of us trying to understand what your definition of 'competing' is. For me, it's competing for a conference championship - a place VT has been, and should be able to maintain considering our division and conference. To do that, we need to recruit significantly better than we are this year.

Citing teams like Army, Fresno State, Utah State, Wazzu, Syracuse, and Cincy as teams that 'are competing without recruiting well' based on a one-off season finish inside the top 25, is not close to where at least my aspirations and expectations are for the program. I'd expect I'm not the only one, either. Whether it was your intent or not, it feels like another weird justification or defense of the staff. Sometimes that stuff is hard to sift through here.

That little number next to our name at the end of the season is mostly irrelevant if it isn't tied to winning anything of significance. The only benefit you could argue is that it helps generate excitement around your program to hopefully boost recruiting, but the brass ring has always been winning titles. If you're not first, you're last, whether is the coastal, the ACC, or the CFP.

And the coach is by far and large the biggest active factor in moving the needle.

Recruit Prosim

"Compete" apparently means different things to different people.

I would rather be "florida state" than "kentucky last year", yes. One year sample size does not a competitive program make.

Which team with recruiting rankings consistently in the 30s has won its conference and made the CFP? Michigan state? I think they recruited better than that

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Oregon had top 50 class on their team when they played for the title in 2010, but I recognize that is very much an exception.

Regardless, I think it's unwise to make large scale staffing decisions based on recruiting rankings; we do it based on on-the-field performance.

Twitter me

We went 6-7 last year and we have a very easy schedule this year that we shouldn't* have a problem against

Recruit Prosim

Alright to be the voice of grounded reality in this thread:

it's time to clean house.

that's some fast and furious-level cgi 0-60 right there

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

You took the beginning and end of my post out of context... so idk what you want from me? The voice of reason is referencing the next thing that I wrote, that there's still a chance this awful class turns around with some key acquisitions

Recruit Prosim

you said you're gonna be the measured voice of reason and then laid out a scenario that sees us clean house after an 8 win season. what i want is a little less hyperbole in one direction or the other

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

So we go 8-4 with a young team and you want to clean house?? That would be brilliant

Yes I would.

You're ok with beating Boston College, Furman, ODU, Duke, Road Island, Georgia Tech (in the middle of the most drastic scheme change college football has seen), wake Forest, and UVA to go play in the military bowl and struggle against a mid major?

We forced Frank out for this?

And we can't keep using the young team excuse. Last year was valid. This year we're ranked 11th for most returning production.

Talented freshmen are winning championships. Some of our most talented players may never see meaningful minutes.

Recruit Prosim

The problem with setting up rigid standards for success in June is that the mob fanbase will begin to expect it regardless of circumstance. I can't envision any clean house scenario this year anyway unless there is some sort of major implosion.

Let's not forget that Fuente is a relatively young coach. Improvement is expected with wisdom. If VT becomes the school that doesnt give a coach time to settle in, the next hire will be harder and could easily backfire.

My theory regarding recruiting this year is that Fuente knows he has a small class and is expecting to exceed some expectations on the field this year. Assuming there will be a resurgence in momentum, the small class can gain ground quickly.

Some of our most talented players may never see meaningful minutes

Why do you say this?

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

I can only assume he expects such an awful down year that all our talent hits the portal

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

We don't want to turn into UT and hire any Derek Dooleys or Butch Jones.

1) You can't paralyze the program bc you're fearful of making a bad hire.
2) We need a coach that can coach and recruit. Those guys could do 1 of the 2. We also may have a guy who can do 1 of the 2.

But you also don't want to set the program back by firing a guy too early. It's why Whit gets paid the big bucks.

A coaching hire is going to reset the clock for another 3 to 5 years. If programs would be as patient with the current guy as the next guy, real growth would occur versus a flashy "fix" of a coaching transition.

Guys with exceptional coaching and recruiting strengths are not on the shelf. If they are, we would be competing with deeper pockets for their services.

What P5 Teams have successfully turned around recruiting with a coaching hire and sustained that success? We all want the same thing and it must be easy to do so there must be loads of examples.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

A coaching hire is going to reset the clock for another 3 to 5 years.

As will a 40th ranked recruiting class and anything less than 9 wins (bc of this schedule) with this current staff, which would make selling to 2021 and beyond recruits that much more challenging.

What P5 Teams have successfully turned around recruiting with a coaching hire and sustained that success? We all want the same thing and it must be easy to do so there must be loads of examples.

No one claimed it was easy, it is not. However, that doesn't mean we the program must remain idle and be destined to accept 8-4 or 7-5 seasons and Independence Bowls, just hoping that 'year n+1 is when we really get it going.' Fuente struggles to recruit, and it is unfortunate that our past staff hires haven't acknowledged those shortcomings, especially when there budget that hasn't always been fully utilized.

Chris Petersen completely turned around Washington, Matt Campbell has done a good job at Iowa St thus far, Jeff Brohm already has Purdue in a winning and recruiting situation they haven't been in in 20+ years, it is early but Mario Cristobal has Oregon on a much better trajectory both on the field and in recruiting...

While we may not be able to afford a guy like Petersen now, VT could have afforded to give any of those coaches a shot prior their current HC stints and performance. It is hard, but not an impossibility.

Iowa States classes are in the 50's every year aren't they?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Have to consider the baseline - no one is expecting ISU to start landing top 10 classes. Iowa St pre Matt Campbell and Iowa St post Matt Campbell has shown improvement. I don't know that we can say the same for VT pre/post Fuente.

Didn't know the answer so went and looked it up:
2010: 68
2011: 59
2012: 67
2013: 63
2014: 59
2015: 64 (not counted)
2016: 55 First class.
2017: 52
2018: 55
2019: 46
After Campbell average is 52 Prior is 63. So he has given them a decent bump. But looking at per recruit rankings it's alot easier in that 50/60 range to jump ten spots than the 35 and lower range is. So what would be a acceptable bump to most people for Tech?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Acceptable depends on expectations. If expectations are that VT is regularly competing to win the ACC and qualify for the playoff then recruiting rankings need to be in the 10-20 range with an average closer to 15 than to 20.

If ten wins and beating UVa are the expectations then current recruiting in the 20-30 range probably does the job.

I don't see how anyone can think Tech will average a 15 class under current conditions. Someone else posted it but there is a direct correlation between budget and recruiting class and Tech is an overachiever already.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

That's a separate debate. You asked about what is acceptable and I gave you an answer I thought reasonable.

Ok then what's acceptable in the reality of Tech today. What should be the average class every four years under the current funding and budget of Tech football?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

You have to first establish expectations (goals). Budgets can change. If you set expectations based on a budget you get mediocrity and an organization that manages to a budget and not to a goal. It also doesn't account for the impact of the talents of individuals within the organization and the impact they can have on its success.

If you want to approach it that way (expectations based on a budget) 9-10 wins and beating UVa is probably reasonable for a few years until ticket sales decline, donations drop, people lose interest, etc...

So I put it to you, what are your expectations for VT football?

Edit: I personally would like to see them compete to win an ACC title, but I don't think a national title is a reasonable expectation. I don't expect them to beat Clemson or Alabama anytime soon. But I do expect them to beat Miami, UNC, etc... and do well OOC (i.e. win 50%). To accomplish this I think the crootin' has to improve and average about 20 with a few dips into the top 20.

I think playing for ACC champ is all we can realistically expect until something drastically tips the scales away from Clemson. We can sneak a championship when we are up and they are down.

One could argue it isnt even logical to expect VT to be better than Miami. We have been in years past, but mostly because of their underachievement.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

Long term (i.e. 10 years) I'd like to see the goal be to compete for and win a natty. I think that would be great for the school. And not just in football, but basketball and baseball too. But I think the institutional culture has to be developed to support such endeavors and that will take time to establish in Blacksburg.

I think we can compete for and even win a natty (with a little good fortune) but I think we have a long way to go to put that in the expectation category. It goes way beyond coaching and recruiting too.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

My short term expectations are classes in top 30 AS long as position needs are being met. This season should be 8 wins or more. Next season needs to have a class in top 25. Long term if Hokie club growth keeps going up and ACCN brings in close to 10 million a year I think 18-26 ranked classes should happen every year. With those classes Fuente or any coach should be top 2 in coastal every year and win it at least once every 3 years.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

OK, so your near term expectations of the program are 8-10 wins and a goal is winning the coastal once in the next three years. Is this correct?

What are your long term expectations (i.e. 5-10 years out)? What should the goals be with respect to wins and competing for championships.

Long term if Hokie club growth keeps going up and ACCN brings in close to 10 million a year I think 18-26 ranked classes should happen every year. With those classes Fuente or any coach should be top 2 in coastal every year and win it at least once every 3 years. More of a 5 year.

If that continues on a trajectory up then winning the ACC should occur at least once every 3. But that's assuming things keep getting better in terms of funding and engagement.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

This was discussed on 24/7. Most of us agreed that we should be realistically aiming for the #20 spot right now.

Recruit Prosim

It really depends how the 4 losses come.

  • If Wake, Miami, UVA, and ND all have 10+ wins, and we drop all 4 by less than a score, we win a good bowl game, and our team shows improvement over the course of the season, then Fuente's seat stays a little warm, but he's not fired.
  • If we drop a game to a non-p5 team, get blown out by ND and Miami, and drop another stupid ACC game, then it's time to have a conversation about (1) can Fuente get us back to 2005-2011 levels and (2) what other coaches are available who can?

Twitter me

If Wake has 10 wins next year the ACC will be substantially worse than the garbage fire it already is.

That said, I agree with your logic here completely. It's a good example of what I was trying to get across with my comment.

That's pretty much what I said, just not with that level of specific scenarios, right?

Recruit Prosim

We forced Frank out for this?

Frank has said multiple times that he went to Whit and felt it was his time. The man held himself to a high standard and bowed out when there were other big things happening in life.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

If we held Frank to the same recruiting standards we held Fuente then this site would have burned down a long time ago. We're expecting a top 25 class out of Fuente the year after we went 6-7 and have limited scholarships. After plenty of years finishing ranked in the Top 15, Beamer's best class was ranked 18th. Tech is a difficult school to recruit high level kids to, I don't know why we are struggling so hard to accept that. Do i want our class to be better this year? Yes. Do i also think it's way too early to judge it? Yes.

Edit: Say we finish strong in recruiting like we have the past couple years and bring in Lambert, Powell, and Greene. Our average jumps to .8811. Thats 4th in the ACC behind Clemson, Miami, and FSU. Thats a better average than last year. That helps fills the talent gaps we keep harping on. Our coaches do need to be held accountable in recruiting, but at least let them fail before we start trashing them.

Gobble Till You Wobble

I agree with you. I think you hit the nail on the head especially

We're expecting a top 25 class out of Fuente the year after we went 6-7 and have limited scholarships.

I think Fuente will be fine this year. People are pretty gun shy after last year. This really only goes to show you can't run too long on faith with our fan base. Call it a Napoleon Complex, call it Little Brother Syndrome, call it whatever. A lot of Hokie Nation needs this team to be good. It's just about all we have to hang our hat on.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Fuente owns that 6-7 season though

Recruit Prosim

"We're expecting a top 25 class out of Fuente the year after we went 6-7"

Good thing Fuente had nothing to do with that 6-7 record.

He obviously did and when that happened some of us were forward thinking enough to know that might effect recruiting.

Gobble Till You Wobble

But if we think forward we won't be able to bitch twice. Once for the 6-7 season once for recruiting.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

I know, it's impossible to recruit well coming off a down season.

Very comparable situations. Good research there. You got me.

Gobble Till You Wobble

For next year? YEP!

I think people are underestimating just how pathetic our schedule is. 8-4 would be disappointing. Do I fire someone for 8-4? Probably not, but the context of those 4 losses and the trend of the team would be important to making that decision.

I've pointed this out before, but heading into a season like last season quite a few TKP'ers predicted we would go 7-5 or 6-6 in a pre-season thread in August. However, experiencing 6-6 where we lose to ODU, get absolutely hammered by Pitt, GT, and Miami, and we have to schedule Marshall during CCG week so that we don't lose the bowl streak looks and feels a lot worse than our more reasonable idea of what that 6-6 or 7-5 looked like preseason.

YES to this. Our schedule is built for 10 wins and anything less is a disappointment for me.

Other than Notre Dame in South Bend - getting buzzsawed by turd teams again seems unlikely.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

Fortunately tjbhokie isn't the AD and probably isn't one of the big donors who have a voice.

So who gives a shit what he thinks?

Attacking me for my opinion seems a little personal

Recruit Prosim

You can't dismiss the class we're putting together blindly because it's 'a small class.' The average player ranking is at a level where we will not be competitive - it is that simple. With a smaller class, you'd hope we'd be a little selective on players, yet we're letting Noah Kim, an guy with ZERO P5 OFFERS, commit at the beginning of May. Guys like Kim should be kept in contact with, but be November/December offers when we've got last minute spots open.

We all saw how the 2016 class hurt us, and we're on pace for one as bad or worse. We're 6 months from signing day and stand in decent shape with 2 4* players. We've got a shot with Powell, but Lambert feels like the same bridesmaid story we experience every year, and I think Feaster will likely go to SC if he qualifies.

The recruiting under Fuente so far is not going to get us back to competing for ACC championships. It is easy to dismiss posts that point this out, but we haven't recruited good enough players at DL or DB in the last 3 years, and we're still not addressing those talent holes.

I'm going to see if I can make a list of exceptional recent Hokies who had no P5 offers.

Most of these no offer guys will be misses, but our team has historically had a few that make a huge impact. That said I too prefer 5*s.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

were some of them walkons tho

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Some were. Some were offered by us and a JMU or Marshall or similar. Hell, I should add Damon Hazelton to the list of guys who received no offer from a P5.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I love those guys (idk who wade is) but how many ACC championships do they have together?

Recruit Prosim

bingo.

So you've cited some walk-ons and guys who were identified and developed by a different staff.

BIG difference from this staff offering full rides to guys with zero P5 offers.

Farley - 3 stars (USCe other P5 offered late)
Hewitt - 3 stars
Keene - 3 stars
Grimsley - 3 stars
Ashby - 3 stars
Darrisaw - 3 stars
Dzansi - 3 stars

Thats just from the 2017 class. I left out 2016 because it was a mixed bag of Frank/Fuente guys. I left out 2018 even though some of those guys look like they're poised to contribute this year are still unproven. These coaches can develop talent. Also, I know some of these guys had some P5 offers, but these are guys ranking around the same area with the guys in this class we aren't that excited about right now.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Are these ALL of the guys that we recruited who didn't have any other offers? If we went 5 hits for 5 offers over the last 5 years when targeting kids with no other offers, I'd be at ease. However, I imagine that these are cherry-picked, and we're hitting 5 for 25 at best. Not to mention that if you exclude kickers, who often walk on, only one of the guys (Jack) was major contributors for more than 2 seasons,

Twitter me

Nope, this was a 5 minute google because I work a 9-5 and cannot be assed to give a quarterly report on this. These were guys that I feel most know (Hansen is probably the exception) who have been big impact players for VT.

Here's another:

One P5 offer from Stanford. There are tons of examples. I even said in my post that these miss more often than not, but starting with a healthy pool of players yields some diamonds. I could pull a of 4* or 3* with multiple P5 offers who never panned out as well. This is mostly noise, not signal.

Edit: And where does 3+ years contributing come into the argument? Devon Hunter still hasn't been a big impact as a near 5* so he will be 2 year contributor at best. Joey Slye is the all time points leader.

Here is another 3* no other P5 offers I think most agree is decent:

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Queue Cue (?) JackSnow Crow or whatever his name is with his Motu hot take.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Would you prefer Terrell Edmunds (no other offers) and Tremaine Edmunds (Only P5 Kentucky) as alternatives? Two first round draft picks?

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I don't care at all. There is just a guy that show up here with extremely hot takes. I'm pretty confident he'd kill Motu given the chance. I wasn't sure if mentioning Motu summoned him so I was just giving you a warning.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

I even said in my post that these miss more often than not, but starting with a healthy pool of players yields some diamonds. I could pull a of 4* or 3* with multiple P5 offers who never panned out as well.

I think you're deeply overestimating the odds of a player panning out. Per SBNation:

The NCAA said in 2013 there were 310,000-some seniors playing football. Here's how long their odds are to reach various recruiting ratings, using class of 2018 data from Rivals, if we settle on 300,000 football-playing seniors as a fair estimate.

  • 30 five-stars, or 0.01 percent of the class
  • 380 four-stars, or 0.13 percent of the class
  • 1,328 three-stars, or 0.44 percent of the class
  • 1,859 two-stars, or 0.62 percent of the class
  • 296,403 unrated, or 98.88 percent of the class

'Pan out' is tough to define, but for the sake of argument, let's say that 'Pan out' means that player is a starter and meaningful contributor for at least one year at the FBS level (I believe this number is low, and recognize that 'pan out' means something different for a five-star player than two-star player, but I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible). Let's also assume the following:

  • 50% of five-stars pan out
  • 25% of four-stars pan out
  • 15% of three-stars pan out
  • 5% of two-stars pan out
  • 1% of unrated players pan out

This means that each class generates roughly 3660 players who will start/contribute for at least one year. Now I know that my numbers are inflated - Given that there are 130 FBS programs, each having (on average) 22 meaningful contributors, there are only 2860 spots for contributors per season, about 800 less spots than contributors each year.

I recognize that this is a really rough estimate with a lot of back-of-the-envelope calculations, but the point(s) stand:

  • It's a lot more likely that a blue chip player will 'pan out'
  • If you want two stars to pan out at the rate that four stars do, you need to recruit at least 3 times as many 2 stars as you would 4 stars to get the same result.
  • If you want unranked players to pan out at the rate that three stars do, you need to recruit at least 15(!) times as many unranked players as you would 3 stars to get the same result.
  • You can make the argument that if your recruit the right two stars and unranked kids, that you'll have better odds than everyone else; I'd argue this is (1) become less doable as recruiting services become more accurate and (2) requires more scouting time and resources than it is worth.

All this to say that "starting with a healthy pool of players [in order to] yield some diamonds" does not correctly convey the low likelihood of turning a low ranked player into a contributor; rather, turning a low ranked player into a contributor is much more like "searching for a needle in a haystack."

FInally, to circle all the way back around, I would argue that searching for a needle in a haystack is an inefficient use of our coaches' time, and their time would be better spent targeting 4-5 star players, and only scouting 2-3 start players from a select list of schools that we have developed relationships at.

Even if the small handful of players in the 2020 class are all strategically chosen, it is a little concerning, just because the hit rate on players like these is statistically so low.

Twitter me

That is all I have been trying to say.

Yes, 4 stars (we dont get many 5 stars so its not worth mentioning) have a better chance of seeing the field than a 3 star on the aggregate. But people are calling for a coaches head for a player who has a 75% chance of never starting in college football.

It just seems odd to judge a coaches 'performance' based on low statistics, especially when people start out weighing recruiting performance to actual on the field results...

Yes this past season was bad, but if Fuente turns it around, regardless of where this recruiting class ends up, why does it matter? Youre predicting future success on poor statistics.

I will continue this to say that using starts and stats may not even be the proper measure to decide if a guy "panned out" as the coaches need to put 22 guys on the field so someone will have to rack up the stats. Look at All-ACC selections and whether or not the guy was drafted to determine if they panned out. I would say the Edmunds bros definitely panned out. Motu may not have never seen the field if we would have landed a guy like Stephone Anthony.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

I think there is a natural law, similar to Godwin's Law, that as an online discussion about recruiting grows longer, the probability of a VT fan mentioning Kam Chancellor to dismiss the importance of stars/rankings approaches 1.

100% agree with your point on Noah Kim. Staff could land a guy like him if necessary a couple weeks before signing day. See Knox Kadum. It's even more of a baffling offer when you consider that if there's one thing other than WR recruiting that Fuente has proven he does very well, it's transfer QB recruiting. Jerod and Willis were both hits. Jury is out on Bermeister but seems like a good depth pull at a minimum. Even Bush, the only one that you could argue was a miss, was likely recruited just to provide depth and did just that.

I think it will be interesting how coaches decide to address depth recruiting in coming years. Guys that are borderline starters are hitting that transfer portal.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

I'll probably get burned for this, but I think there is something special about Noah Kim. Could we have waited? Maybe. But considering Fuente has a pretty good history with QB's, I'm going to stick to thinking he found a diamond in the rough early, he wants to be a Hokie, and I think he'll make a fine field general with an accurate arm and solid mobility.

Not to mention, VT has done pretty well with some other Asian Americans.

I'm just here to sling some legs

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Ha! Fair enough. Certainly wasn't intended to be, but I am guilty. There aren't many Asians who have played American Football, and on this LINK VT accounts for 4 out of a total of 46. Not many schools are even listed twice, so I stand by my comment.

I'm just here to sling some legs

haha. Just messing with you. I think it's a perfectly valid observation.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

It's all good bud - made me chuckle. Even gave you a leg

I'm just here to sling some legs

Yea with our luck, his recruiting would have taken off if we didn't lock him in and then he winds up at penn state and everyone on this board would bitch about this coaching staff not having the clutch gene in recruiting for another 3 months.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Exactly. Kid becomes the next Aaron Rodgers, talks about how he really wanted to play for VT but didn't get the offer. Meanwhile, he leads UNC to their first NC Playoff. TKP goes crazy with how we didn't land this under-recruited in-state talent.

I'm just here to sling some legs

#stephcurry?

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

I hear ya! I actually wrote Steph Curry and then edited before posting.

I'm just here to sling some legs

Is it basketball season yet?

" />

I criticize knowing full well I could never do what these athletes do.

Don't you know by now we don't actually talk about recruiting on the recruiting threads? I posted a detailed list of position by position commits and targets two days ago and got two replies...someone posts about way too early recruiting rankings and how we need to fire fuente after an 8-4 season and gets about 50 replies each lol

Don't you know by now we don't actually talk about recruiting on the recruiting threads?

The whole conversation is about recruiting and it's impact on performance. I get people want to come in here and hit a turkey leg piรฑata for big star signings, put the simple fact of the matter is:

A detailed list is great for reference, it does little to generate discussion. I cannot argue for or against the fact that we have X safeties and Y corners. I can make an argument that signing only VA recruits would allow us to get a Natty or vice versa.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

The same people argue the same points in every recruiting thread we have and it is tiresome. Make a thread for recruiting impacts and post everyone's thoughts there and discuss, argue and debate. The monthly recruiting threads can be kept cleaner for people who want to see the latest news at a glance without filtering through 40 new comments about how the program is in a constant state of despair because Fuente is the worst recruiter in the ACC or why he isn't.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

We should also have a separate thread where we can go and complain about the recruiting thread.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

That makes sense, and my biggest complaint could be answered in the below comment by creating two separate threads. My personal opinion is that the recruiting thread should be only for actual recruiting updates of players we are recruiting or recruiting boards. The hypothetical or discussion based dialogue around how we can recruit better and how it relates to our success has its place but I would rather save those hundreds of comments for another thread.

We know by now better recruiting within the context of each program's strengths and limitations will lead to more wins, but would rather focus on the players we need to land to get there and not rehashing the same narrative.

I know a lot of the conversation will be an eternal hamster wheel of rehashed points and completely terrible takes (looking at all the team pie people).

But that is what boards are for. Discussion. Engagement. If people want a list of signees, targets, etc. there are a lot of great recruiting websites that are just facts. If you want a facts only thread, go ahead and make it. Or see if people want a quasi locked thread where only the top level post can be edited.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I agree 100%. This is getting fucking tiresome. Perhaps creating separate 'Recruiting News/Updates' and 'Factors Which Impact Recruiting" threads would help.

You did?!? Where? Link?

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Human. Dogs are from a different genus, I assume based on the morphology presented by a samsquach. While this is a sentence I never thought I'd type, greater and lesser apes would give a good idea of the morphology that would likely be presented.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

He is obviously a member of the primate family, so his dick would be similar to other primates

Now this is a comment chain I can get behind.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Very possibly the recruiting thread all time low.

JP

I dunno about that issue is anytime I here red rocket I hear it in Cartmans voice from that episode its like a trigger in my head kinda wierd

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I've been around here too long to get my hopes up when I see 96 now comments on a recruiting thread.

Using /s is for cowards.

I think there needs to be a new standard set here. We need a COMMITMENT THREAD that is only used to talk about when commits actually happen (though I'd be open to crystal ball/final schools list being allowed also). It's strictly an info thread or celebration for when you get a commit. Any tangential conversations and off topicness gets deleted.

And then a separate recruiting thread which is for literally everything else (offers going out, visits, talk about cousin's wife's best friend is close to a recruit and says he likes this school) or basically what we already have in all these threads

Typically Commitments do get their own threads. This thread is the 'everything else' thread.

Twitter me

Dear Lord,

If it be your will, could our coaches PLEASE recruit somebody (anybody) today so we can have SOMETHING ELSE to discuss!

Amen.

NO! That is how we got into this whole small class-low average rating MESS!!!

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Let's Go

HOKIES

*Sees recruiting thread with 100 unread comments*

Excitedly opens thread for new commitment.

*dies*

Danny is always open
23 can't read

Let's Go

HOKIES

Gotta be a reference to Bigfoot sex organs.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

Illuminati confirmed?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Dude out here dropping nameless yet exciting recruiting tweets like he a coach

Virginia Tech School of Architecture Class of 2014
Fan of Hokies, Ravens, NY Giants, Orioles

If he can secure two of our high value 2020 targets I'm gonna personally fit him into a sales roll *role* when his football career is done.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

will he have to eat his way out

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Ha, just spit out my coffee finding out what this meant.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

My take on recruiting- donate more money to aid program, give coach time to install his program, and line up better opponents. Fuente needs 5 years and he needs Bud to have his head back in the game. The program neeed money to help to draw recruits. Lastly, we need a schedule of division 1 opponents. Recruits that are great want to play the best , and want to play on the biggest stage. Right now we are doing neither of these.

Hopefully some of this Amazon and ACC network money will start to prop up the football programs since it seems to be so poor. I'm not being sarcastic here either...

Here comes Fireman white knighting for Fuente again...Just because Fuente is in a picture with one recruit you wanna deem him some ace recruiter and pass the buck on all his short comings to Bud!?!?!?!

/ssssssorry for bringing this back up but I couldn't resist haha

Damn the down votes flying today.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

FWIW I legged you. I'm assuming the DVs are coming from your silent detractors who always seem to be lurking. While I think you can get overboard in your defense of the staff at times, it at least brings some balance to the doom and gloom that seems to be permeating through the fanbase these days.

Buds health concerns, if there are any, would put a huge damper on my expectations for what this team can accomplish next year.

Bud had more than one major health event last year. I'll leave it at that

I must be the only one that doesn't over read your comments

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Nm. Wrong post

Randolph-Macon Satellite today. Bud was present and doing his thing. He and Wiles did the vert testing. Zohn, Ham, Corny, Jafar, Shibest, Vice, Mitchell all on hand as well doing 40s, shuttles, indy drills and 1v1's with 175-200 kids. I like how Ham coaches. Wiles and Bud are still getting after it. Hokies will be fine, have some faith.

Glad to hear. When he didn't make it down to Jacksonville and I hadn't seen him in many pictures I was worried.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Dangit wish I knew that i live in ashland and wouldve gone over just to see Bud atleast.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

He and Wiles did the vert testing. Zohn, Ham, Corny, Jafar, Shibest, Vice, Mitchell all on hand as well doing 40s, shuttles, indy drills

Did anyone happen to get their results? My money is on Jafar in the 40

HookieNation???

Don't care what you call us...just call us.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

2021 Texas kids are tweeting at each other. 4* RB Brandon Campbell 4* CB Hunter Washington and QB Bronson McClelland with the hashtag Tx2VT. Believe Hunter and Bronson will visit this weekend don't know about Cambell.

Offer list wise I see VT has an offer out for Washington.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

The recruiting staff has been hitting it hard in TX.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

The recruiting staff has been hitting it hard in TX.

I'm so much happier to hear things like that now that Galen Scott is gone.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Campbell came a week or so ago, has an uncle that lives in VA. I'm pretty sure I saw Tony Grimes' dad tweet that Hunter Washington is his nephew, not sure if that was literal or if they are just close somehow.

Also, I think I saw that we were Hunter's first p5 offer.

Get this actual recruiting news out of here. I'm here to Argue!!!

Alright, I think this is the secret recruiting pitch we need to lock down the top prospects. Heck, it might even work with Hokie Club. Just send people a piece of paper in the mail with this written on it:

Urban's Secret Pitch

wow, wouldn't expect that from such a righteous person like Urban Meyer (obligatory /s)

So much build up for what I thought was about to be some racist shit. lol.

..anyhow, ..classic Urban. lol

Part of me desperately wishes this is how Frank recruited as well. For the sheer comedy of the situation.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Especially with his accent. Then Hanks in the background like "yea pussy do it"

Recruit Prosim

Frank walks in to Cook Out: "Listen, I'm just gonna say it, you need to commit to the watermelon milkshake you f****** p****."

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I just imagine this nice, decorative brochure from Hokie Club coming in the mail. Nice picture of the stadium and Whit and Frank standing side by side smiling. And small text that only reads, "We think you need to quit being a f****** p**** and join the Hokie Club...or we'll get after ya'.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Hey we were going with somewhat pushy pitches, not outright extortion.

not sure if this is the place to post a recruiting note, but another CB (Tom Loy) for Antwaun Powell just flipped from Michigan to "?"

It appears UNC also dropped to "Cool" in the interest column, whereas they were recently "Warm". If that means anything.

Soooo Florida State?

I think it's between Florida and VT.

Damn, he just spent three days in Gainesville with UF.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Probably more to do with the visit cancel to Michigan, and increasingly looking like UM is out of it. Notably the CB wasn't flipped to UF, just "???". But I don't really know anything, so take that for what it is.

Yes, the time to panic is not at hand from the ND or Mich insider flipping to "?"

The time to panic is when the Florida insiders put one in for UF in the days leading up to his announcement.

Matej Sis just gave a crystal Ball for Powell to VT

Gobble Till You Wobble

Bet

Recruit Prosim

And of course Torrian Gray and Todd Grantham on the list of Florida recruiters...

Reach for Excellence!

VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

I spoke to a few different people regarding Powell, and will share some of that information this evening.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Is it evening yet?

BTW, its great to have you back Joe!

Is it basketball season yet?

Sorry to disappoint. I wrote a thing, but am not happy with where it's at right now and can't burn the midnight oil anymore.

You got that piece on Powell ready?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Any word or feelings on Feaster?

"If at first you do not succeed, then skydiving is not for you." - Anonymous

Positive vibes, but taking time in making a decision.

@CraigThompsonVT

South Carolina's fan base, from what I have gathered, is starting to see landing feaster as a virtual certainty.

Whether that is blind-unsubstantiated optimism or they understand something we don't? I don't know.

Anyone else see that Mack Brown is using the Texas 2005 championship trophy to lure in recruits...

Why do I feel like Mac Brown and Johnny Swofford would be besties?

Hey Gather around recruits, see this Crystal Football? I won this when you were 2 years old. Back then they didn't have a playoff and computers decided if you were good

See this knockoff trophy because the real one is in Austin texas.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Thats the coaches trophy, awarded by the coaches poll. It is still awarded today.

Isn't one also awarded to the coach in some official capacity? It's just not the 30,000 dollar variety.

There are about 5 trophies awarded to the winner of the national champion, including the college football playoff trophy.

Hyperbole aside, Texas with Vince Young was an all-time team.

Is it hollow? Can Mack use it to hold Werther's candies?

JP

Not at all concerned with the trophy.
I'm more concerned about his hand awkwardly on top of the kid's hand. Personally, I wouldn't be in for that particular form of contact. Now, if they're both holding one end of the trophy, that's cool. But, what is actually happening is just weird.

There's a Devil's Three-Way joke in there, but I just cannot put my finger in it?

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

What a god-awful, Christmas tree looking uniform.

Yes! Engage uniform discussion!

After his first recruiting class, how will Mack Brown's "story" be any different than the way teams treated Coach Beamer in his last few years: "sure you can come play for a legend, but is he still gonna be there when you graduate?"

Depends on how his first year goes. If he goes sub .500, I think it's negative recruiting.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

This might be an unpopular opinion but I think Mack Brown has both better skills as a recruiter and a better history of on-field success that will allow him to overcome age-related negative recruiting in a way Beamer simply couldn't.

And much better recruiting assistants

Brown can recruit problem is he isn't a consistent winner with those recruits. He took top 15 classes almost ever year, and a lot of times top 8 classes and won 5 games in a season and 8 games multiple times.
What is he going to do at UNcheat where he won't have top end classes like that? What is the ceiling long term for him?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

The roof.

There might be a $light difference in Mack Brown'$ pitch to recruit$.

That sugary knee will get after you.

#Let's Go - Hokies

Umm where did the general recruiting board go?

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

Unofficial Landers Nolley score keeper

Well if anybody cares at all Virginia Tech's men tennis team picked up the 2# overall recruit in the country for the 2020 recruiting class. He's name is Ryan Fishback fron New York

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

Unofficial Landers Nolley score keeper

We a tennis school now!

Danny is always open
23 can't read

the 2# overall recruit in the country

This is kind of misleading. Most tennis recruiting is done abroad. Fishback will play top 3 lines for us, but this isn't the equivalent of getting the #2 overall football recruit. Beyond that, I'm always suspect of players who grew up playing juniors, but haven't recorded results in men's open/pro events.

Twitter me

I'm literally shook that someone has this strong of an informed opinion about collegiate tennis recruiting

I was being recruited (or at least in frequent contact with coaches at few schools) for college tennis before giving up my dreams and playing club tennis at VT. So I'm pretty informed about the tennis recruiting process.

Twitter me

He's 15-3 against other 5 stars im gonna say he's pretty good

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

Unofficial Landers Nolley score keeper

Most top recruits are failed/current pros from Europe or South America who aren't ranked (by US recruiting sites). South Carolina's #1 Paul Jubb just won the NCAA singles tournament. He's 19 and ranked 472 in the world by the ATP. Here's his recruiting profile - you'll see he's not rated, he's 1-2 against unrated opponents and has never faced a ranked opponent prior to college. Here's the recruiting profile for Nuno Berges, the runner up. His is slightly more complete, but still inaccurate fails to convey his talent level, and does not include match results from outside the US.

These aren't 'diamond in the rough' recruits; the tennis recruiting services just don't include a large piece of the tennis population. Imagine 247/Rivals only ranked football players from the east coast, and players in California, Texas, etc just didn't receive rankings. That's kind of how tennis recruiting is. Fishback will be a great player, I'm just telling you that #2 in the country doesn't mean the same thing it does in football. Fishback could be the #2 player in the US, but outside the top 50 incoming freshman.

Twitter me

Well i hope he turns into An Acc champ and a 2022 national champion

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

Unofficial Landers Nolley score keeper

Evan threw up "Vibes" on 247. Expect something to happen today.

We got a CB by Matej Sis for Jordan Brunson. 6' 210lb RB out of Georgia. Currently unranked by 247.

Unranked / low 3-star running backs*:

Our coaching staff:

* except for Keshawn King, our only hope.

Edit: jokes aside, now that this kid is a Hokie I hope he makes me look like a big dumb idiot for this comment.

Given that we have a small class and are not planning on taking more than 2 backs, this could mean we have failed to land Marvin Scott III, who was a great option after it became clear we were out for Corum. On the bright side, I watched his film and he looks like he could be our bruiser. He also tweeted that he ran a 4.44 at a GT camp.

Yeah I don't think there's a reason to get hung up over this kids rank (in b4 "our recruiting class is awful") the kid is 6' 210lbs built like a tank and runs a 4.44....at that point I don't care if he's blind, put him behind a decent OL and he's going to get you a few yards every carry.

Bonus his other P5 offer was BC and that is not the kind of RB I want BC to have.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

People on here live and die by the 247 rankings and don't trust our staffs ability to evaluate unfortunately

Gobble Till You Wobble

I think you're misrepresenting the situation quite a bit. Most of the criticisms are about our staff's inability to close on recruits, whether they are highly rated by 247, or an underrated player that we got an early eval on (Eugene Asante).

Most people agree that our staff has been pretty early on some evals of guys who blew up. The problem is that being the first to identify an underrated talent doesn't really mean shit if they sign somewhere else.

We also have picked off some guys from other schools it is not just one way . It is chicken vs egg theory . Fuente recruiting will be established going forward on what kind of product he fields . Most of the product to date was what he coached from last regime . He was selling to recruits the future but starting this year he will be selling the product that he has built and the performance that is happening . If it is good then his job becomes much easier if not then he has work to do .

Coastal 1

No I've got it and I've commented on the narrative of our staff failing to close. There are definitely recruits I feel we missed out on but we like to forget about us closing on guys like Nester, Robinson, Bowick, Hunter, and Dax. Our selective memory is funny.

My issue is we are quick to come to a final conclusion on a recruit before we know anything. We immediately base it off his stars and offers on 247. These are high school kids. There are late bloomers (Asante is the perfect example). While this guy might have been the 24th running back we offered, we have no clue how he's developed. I don't mind criticism of the staff, but at least let the process play out before we politely call the kid a scrub on here.

Gobble Till You Wobble

100% spot on - for the record I'm a fan of the RB commitment

Well yeah our completely integrated analyst that clearly has vision into the recruiting room, strategy, and recruit analysis professional outoftowner called him a plan D running back so this was a massive miss.

/s

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

I don't mind getting called out - my posts are often very blunt and go against the grain here. If you take offense at 'Plan D,' I can apologize, but if you follow recruiting closely, I stand by the statement.

Per 247, we offered 24 2020 RBs. Jordan Brunson received the 24th offer, and tweeted he was offered by VT on 6/8/19, then committed 17 days later. We've been recruiting some of the other guys for 3 years. If you think the staff would rather take Brunson than Tyree, Corum, or Scott, let alone many of the other guys we were likely never going to land in the first place, I don't know what to tell you. Beating out BC and Akron for guys isn't going to get us winning the ACC.

I get the Peyote thing can happen, but that's a definite exception, and no way to build a roster if ACC Championships, Playoffs, or NY6 is your goal. If you think and can justify why Fuente and the offensive staff are the smartest guys in the room in terms of identifying and getting talent to commit, I'll happily listen. We're regularly signing guys with a handful of lowly offers, and that has me very concerned about talent (outside of WR and OL) across the board.

Peyote thing

via GIPHY

extending an offer is not a requirement for recruiting a prospect

we could have been recruiting this kid since 2016 for all you know

I'd like to see anyone defend this level of G5 Memphis recruiting for a coach in his fourth year. Tech's not looking good to sign a single top 20 in-state player.

I was working with information we had at the time, thank you for waiting for CBs to flip from our top target before replying.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

"I was working with information I had at the time" - the VT recruiting motto since 2013

If you told me that the staff was very high on this guy and that he's a top 3 back on their board, I think I'd actually trust it and be excited. But, speaking just for myself, my concerns are twofold.

1) I haven't really seen indicators that these low-ranked guys are guys the staff is super excited about or that are seriously underrated. As an example, Payoute from last class was unrated, but as soon as we offered there was instant buzz, and he rose accordingly. The indicators that I have seen (and of course I don't have inside information, but you have to work off the info you have) are instead that these are our fourth, fifth, sixth, etc choices. And I'm concerned that we're moving this far down our list six months away from signing day.

Edit: responding to the comment above me, if you follow recruiting and the offers we give out, it doesn't take much to make an educated guess that this guy was not the top of our list. There have been several other backs that our coaches were reportedly focusing on before him, and if you just look at our 2020 RB offer list, I find it hard to believe (given the information out there) that our staff took this guy above all the other guys they were targeting because they think he'll be a better player for us.

2) Trust in evaluations has to be earned. The last coaching staff earned that trust repeatedly. This coaching staff has not. This is largely due to the fact that they haven't been around long enough for some of those low-ranking development guys to pay off. It is possible to simultaneously recognize that they need more time on this front while also not blindly trusting that they're just nailing every low-offer player that commits. What have they done to give you comfort that they're that much smarter than all other P5 coaching staffs?

Evans , Willis and Hazelton . These guys were quick fills for gaps that were there from last regime. We will start
to see what kind of eye the coaches have this year for talent as we start to get some years in on the guys
they recruited for what they want to accomplish . The continued bitching and moaning over recruiting rankings gets tiring they have averaged top 4 Acc recruiting last 3 years better than 10 schools in the same conference not great but pretty good .

Coastal 1

I don't necessarily think these two things are mutually exclusive. It's just hard to get excited about a small recruiting class that's primarily made up of (at the moment) fringe ACC caliber players when going off of offers and recruiting rankings. I think people can trust our staff's evaluation skills, but statistically speaking, not all of these guys are going to turn out to be diamonds in the rough. For a program with ACCCG/NY6 aspirations, history shows this won't cut it.

Why do we even need to take 2 backs this year? What in your opinion will be the breakdown of this years class?

I'm definitely not the person to ask about total commits/number of takes at each position. I just happened to have heard over the last few months on a few occasions that taking two RB's has been the plan for this class.

I have heard Powell and Lakeem are committing on the 3rd and 4th, but I never saw any tweets or anything else confirming it. Can anybody confirm this?

I know itll get its own thread but Brunson just committed

Third commit to this class with fewer than two Power 5 offers...and among the group, they include BC, Colorado State and Rutgers (per 247).

Either Fuente & Co. are just nailing these evaluations, or something is funny here. And if iT's SuCh A sMaLl ClAsS it's a little strange to let these un-ranked guys just jump on board to take up those valuable, limited spots.

But that's just me.

Definitely cause for question. Wonder if this means we're out for Scott, too? Would be surprised to take this kid if we were in it and numbers are as tight as advertised. That would be another big miss, and we're taking another Plan D kid at RB. King must perform.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

If we don't seal this one I'm hopping on the wtf recruiting train.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

to be fair, the "big news" could just be the details for his actual announcement. who knows, guess we'll find out in two hours

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yes also a possibility

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

I'm looking forward to seeing how many people still defend this staff if it's UF today

Can we agree to a cease fire or whatever on this kind of post? Honestly, anyone who frequents TKP gets it by now. There's a contigent that believes we have a G5 staff that sucks at recruiting, Fuente lost the locker room, the schedule is garbage so even if we went undefeated it's meaningless (don't worry though- we're definitely going to lose a bunch of easy games), and it's time to end the failed Fuente experiment. If you feel that's all certain and a foregone conclusion at this point, just set that as the baseline and if anything happens that exceeds your expectations, then it would be worth celebrating and discussing.

Isn't college football is supposed to be fun, even if your team isn't winning championships? Virginia Tech football hasn't won a national championship in 125 years of competing and yet here we are, a collection of fans [presumably] with fond memories who continue to cheer for the team. If Fuente doesn't work out as we all once hoped for, Whit is going to take care of business and move on. So can we please let it go with the constant sniping in every thread already?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

**insert GIF of Jack Nicholson nodding or shia labeouf clapping aggressively**

I still really like Justin Fuente based on what I've seen of his character and how he represents VT. I will probably be in a funk for days when he's fired...but I will totally agree with it happening. I genuinely hope he gets another chance somewhere with tons of money and a big name that can recruit itself.

You can do everything else in this sport right and win absolutely nothing if you can't recruit. That seems to be where we are going. I enormously regret learning about college football recruiting. Because once you know how important it is you can't forget it when the talent goes elsewhere again, and again, and again.

Rooting against your team just so you get to say "I told you so". Classic.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

He's not rooting against his own team. That has no part in whether or not he is right.

The comment is clearly meant to be inflammatory toward other community members. It's not stating any information or insight or intended to generate civil discussion.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

If this was flipped around nobody would be bashing it for being inflammatory.

You could be right but we actually need something positive to happen before we can test that theory. In all seriousness, do you believe the post was intended to generate meaningful discussion?

The biggest issue that I have, while I don't want to presume to speak for others, is that I don't believe most people find it enjoyable to be part of a toxic community. Everyone here wants Virginia Tech football to be successful. We all hate losing games and missing out on recruits. However, it seems to me the discourse around anything football related has steadily devolved from more constructive criticism supported with analysis to all-consuming negativity. I don't mind people being upset over missing a recruit or even pointing out the dreadful state of our current recruiting class, but we shouldn't need to be reminded that players, recruits, and their parents read TKP in order to tone down the virtriol for a few minutes.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Is this going to be one of those announcements where they just tweet out a photo with the finalists' logos?

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

This is going to be a serious hindrance to my work productivity

He's already set 7/4 as his commitment date, IIRC. So this is likely just details on when and where.

EDIT: Welp. Maybe not. Evan Watkins just flipped his CB to Florida. WOMP

@Fightin_Gobbler

Go Hokies

Go Falcons

Commence the heartbreak, and pitchforks!

We lost:

via GIPHY

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

We lost another one!

I'm just gonna pretend your edit doesn't exist and Watkins has another week to sort out the information based on this announcement today.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Yep, insiders on TSL say:

@CraigThompsonVT

Wait but I was told that Fuente and Dabo...

Really? Who said that??? lol...

Man, I miss Torrian Gray.

In Sam Rogers we trust.

Apparently saying hello to mom is overrated

It's crazy to me that NONE of the top kids in VA are seriously interested in VT. If they are, we usually finish 2nd. Always losing to PSU, CU, ND, OSU, FU, etc. Seems like the VA pride died with the older generations.

"These people are losing their minds!"

Percy Harvin, Curry, Dosh. I can't think of other names off top of head but there have been plenty who left state. It's why Andy Bitter could do an entire segment on what if top ranked kids stayed in state at Tech how could would Tech be.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

To be fair those are all better programs, both historically and currently for the most part.

We should be competing with PSU and UF imo. Clemson's on top of the world right now and ND & OSU are enshrined.

Recruit Prosim

I don't think we should necessarily be 'expected' to beat PSU and UF at recruiting; they're formidable competition. Both have significantly larger athletic budgets than we do. Also, for a lot of recruits (like Ford) PSU and VT are equidistant from their home town. As far as UF goes, it's warmer and a historically better football program.

Side note - I'd really love to know to know how wealthier schools use the extra recruiting budget. Are they able to cast a wider net and have more recruits in 'the top of the funnel?' Does having more support staff mean they can keep in closer contact with the kids further down the funnel? I'd love to know what VT's conversion rate is, and how that compares to other schools (side note - I really hope that our coaching staff know these stats and data, just like a sales department. If they don't, well that's a bigger issue). This information would help the fans (and, more importantly the coaches & administration) determine problems with recruiting.

Twitter me

Support staff keeping up contact with a wider net of recruits is a big part. This lets the coaching staff keep highest personal contact up with top targets without sacrificing future chances at backup options.

I'm very interested in what you are referring to with conversion rate. How many kids we land/kids we were in contact with? How many kids we land/total scholarship offers? etc.?

I think a lot of potential recruiting "conversion rates" could leave you with some really inconclusive data. However, that's why I'm so interested to see what your idea of a conversion rate is.

Edit: replied to wrong comment

Recruit Prosim

Would be interesting to see how they break this down. How do they count nutrition staff, multinuse weight and training areas and staff.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

This is from 2012 but we outspent Penn state. I was actually surprised how high Florida was.

https://www.businessinsider.com/schools-spend-most-money-football-team-2...

This is more recent and has VT at #16 and has Florida #12 and Penn State #8.

https://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2017/08/which_schools_spend_the_...

People throw around the excuse that our donations, revenue and athletic spendings are relatively low, and they're correct. But VT compensates this by spending way larger of a percentage of its athletic budget on football and really is on relatively equal footing (for now) with most schools we supposedly can't compete with. The worst part is that we allegedly have money set aside for recruiting that we aren't spending. Penn state really doesn't have that much more football history than us. Really their story is pretty similar to ours with a historic coach building their program, they just seized their NC opportunity.

Recruit Prosim

If you check the CAFI database, you can get pretty granular information. Here's a comparison between VT, UF, and PSU. You'll see that PSU spends about $1M more than us on recruiting and UF spends about a half mil more than (granted, they have a lot more talent much closer than we do):

It's tough to understand if Fuente is a poor recruiter or if he's actually limited by funding & support staff.

The worst part is that we allegedly have money set aside for recruiting that we aren't spending.

This I have not heard before, and if that's the case, it is concerning.

Twitter me

We've spent less dollars and a smaller percentage every year. It's his job to lobby Whit for funding for the football program.

Recruit Prosim

Yeah, but living in PA, we pay exorbitant prices for our gas and toll roads, none of which actually goes towards transportation or roads (like many of you know), and most of which goes to the Governor's furniture and the PSU football empire, which is basically the only public FBS school that the Commonwealth has to support. So competing with PSU is not an apples to apples comparison.

"That man was violating a city ordinance, and I was just doing my duty to enforce it." - Mike Curtis

"You boys in there smokin' rope?"-Johnny Unitas (circa 1973) to his San Diego Chargers teammates

I think Pitt gets similar support.

Doesn't matter if it's cake or pie as long as it's chocolate.

When you look at it on paper Pitt really should be a way better football program than they are. It's kind of astounding to look at their history, alumni, support, the fact that they get to share facilities with the Steelers, etc. and see that they have to scratch and claw their way to .500 every year.

Almost like playing in the ACC Coastal doesn't benefit them

Recruit Prosim

I think it's pretty difficult for any team without an on-campus stadium to prosper. If you're student have to bus there, they are less likely to go to games, and if they're less likely to go to games, they're more likely to become a casual fan rather than a fanatic. Casual fans don't give back to the program.

Twitter me

You're right that the off-campus stadium is a big deal but wrong about the students. Pitt students go to the games, it's the alumni who don't show up at all. To them it's not like "going back to the school for a day" like it is for most alumni who return to their campus for a game, it's just an inconvenience to go to a game in a building that has no affiliation to the school and hosts more exciting NFL games the next day they'd rather be at.

You guys are missing one key point. It's not about the money spent that is documented, it's about the money spent that isn't documented. Bigger programs can drop bigger bags.

Man, it would be fascinating to have that data to work with...

Twitter me

It's a long time til signing day.
No sense in getting your panties in a bunch yet.

We certainly have more work than we should have till then but this is a good point.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

what about a wad? can we get them in a wad?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

In light of the bad news on Powell, friendly reminder that our 2020 class currently ranks 13 out of 14 in the ACC based on average recruit rating.

If you find bad news to be "inflammatory," don't despair because *Reliable Sources* have informed me that Mack Brown is oldโ€”possibly even older than 66!

If Mack Brown's age doesn't cheer you up, recall that Dabo Swinney didn't even win a national title until 2016. This is conclusive evidence that Justin Fuenteโ€”who, like Dabo Swinney, is also a human coachโ€”will likely recruit a top 20 class in 2021 on his way to VT's first national title.

Oof

Recruit Prosim

UF's facilities reportedly make VT's look like Alabama's.

Welp

via GIPHY

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Offensive recruiting is OK.

Fuente can still hire a new defensive staff and see if that gets the job done. Will be interesting to see. That would seem to be a lifeline for him if he thinks this class will tank.

That would be nice, but it would run counter to every new hire he's made at Tech since starting. I think Burden, Vice (not long for this place I'd bet), Hamilton and Shibest are assets but I really don't know about the rest of the staff. Wiles used to be. Bud doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere in Tech recruiting since Dax signed.

You'd imagine that a defensive performance like last year would have resulted in ANYTHING happening in the off-season, but that's not how Fu seems to roll. I'm guessing he's OK to keep Mitchell and bring on coaches like Williams, who had no history whatsoever with impactful recruiting at any of his previous stops.

You'd imagine that a defensive performance like last year would have resulted in ANYTHING happening in the off-season, but that's not how Fu seems to roll.

Justin Hamilton replaced Tyrone Nix. Regardless of the circumstances of Nix's departure, it's a fact that a change happened.

bring on coaches like Williams, who had no history whatsoever with impactful recruiting at any of his previous stops.

This article from when Williams left Rutgers for Maryland specifically mentions one of the positives regarding Williams is his ability as a recruiter.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I'll agree, the change happened and I probably shouldn't overlook it, but it was another promoted- from-within situation rather than bringing in staff with any kind of recruiting mojo.

But Williams is the most underwhelming type of hire, which would make him par for the course when it comes to Fuente.

Recruiting prowess? Nope. 247 does not credit him as the primary recruiter for a single 4-star in his coaching career.

Player development? Not so fast. I can't find a RB drafted during his time at Purdue or a WR drafted during his time at Rutgers or Maryland. He missed out on Caroo at Rutgers (16) and Moore at Maryland (18).

But I mean, why meet or exceed expectations when you can continue to put together a hell of a Conference USA staff?

Turner was seriously considering transferring once the old WR coach left. Williams biggest "get" might have already happened.

If he can continue to develop a few of these guys into the pros he won't have trouble recruiting at least the WR position.

Have sauce, no /s

I remember when Burden was an underwhelming hire.

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

It's fine to have one or two guys learning on the job. We shouldn't have 80% of our staff learning on the job.

80% of our staff

Holy madeup stat Batman.

Fuente
Foster
Wiles
Vice
Burden
Shibest
Mitchel
Williams
Have all coaches FBS teams and all but Burden at P5 teams.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I'd argue he meant learning on the job with the recruiting transition from Memphis to VT. Tech is recruiting at a C-USA level right now.

Why exactly would a kick ass proven position coach come to VT to do the same thing?

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

I saw that UConn went back to the Big East this week but must have missed when Maryland and Rutgers joined Conference USA.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I must have missed when Rutgers was a standard for us to strive towards

Recruit Prosim

i can only imagine what Alabama message boards must have said about VT when Wiggins was hired. Probably the final straw that it's time to move on from Saban and his G5 staff.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Was probably a blip in their news feed in-between 5* commitment posts.

Recruit Prosim

How could you possibly just dismiss that the coach wanted to leave because he didn't like working here and chalk that up as Fuente making hard decisions with his staff for the betterment of the team?

Recruit Prosim

Ok so who is he credited with recruiting then?

Recruit Prosim

Not meant to ease any of the wounds on the trail, but I spoke with Jordan Brunson this evening and came away extremely impressed.

But did he run a 4.4 - 40 for you?

/s

Is it basketball season yet?

His tape looks great and he seems like an incredibly hard worker.

Recruit Prosim

After today, I think I will hang up TKPing until August camp rolls around, this type of news is ruining my summer. Oh wait, I live in the southern hemisphere...ruining my winter.

Edit: forgot to mention Joe, just renewed for another year, and really hoping for some improvement in football and any form of success in basketball in the coming academic year.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former USNR, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

Regarding the latter part of your message, your renewal didn't go through because your billing information is out of date. That needs to be updated. I sent a note to the email address on file, did you get that?

We've landed guys like Hunter and Dax who were our top targets over the last couple of years. However, missing these guys on the DL is tough and it continues to happen. Bud has never been a great recruiter and it has been magnified with things happening in his personal life and medical issues (I know some have mentioned there have been a couple of medical issues in the last year). Is he completely invested at this point? I know the man can coach but is he doing everything else at 100%? What about Wiles?

Does Fuente need to bring in a new coach on defense that can increase the talent? Recruiting on offense hasn't been a huge concern, but we are not landing guys on the DL and secondary (I have a feeling that Hamilton is going to do well as a recruiter).

Hopefully Prioleu (I'm sure I butchered the spelling) will be a huge bump for defensive recruiting. I love our coaches but man I'm more that ready to start reading some positive things about our football program again. I'm prob overreacting bc of recent recruiting events but I'm ready to see some success again in recruiting. The day I win the power ball I'm donating 7 figures to football

He can only recruit on campus. I understand that we win some recruiting battles and we lose some. We've had some wins with OL and WR recruits, so it isn't like we are getting destroyed on the recruiting trail. However, the misses on the DL are concerning. It appeared that we were the leaders for Powell and he goes down to FL and BOOM. He commits...and he commits before he was supposed to announce. Maybe there is shady crap going on down there....it is the SEC after all....but we need to land some of these guys.

Looks like KeAndre Lambert is really the only 4*+ we currently have a shot with. Outside of being Kam's nephew, is there any reason to believe he will be a Hokie? Looking for some positive recruiting news here...

is there any reason to believe he will be a Hokie?

evidently he might not be a take at clemson?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

You may want to sit down for this...

Recruit Prosim

Just looking at 247 it looks we are warm and warmer for Stephen Sings and Tyler Baron at DE...thats all i got right now..

Tyler Baron

Stephen Sings

Need to take at least 2 DTs and 2 DEs in this class

Tyler Baron is not going to be a Hokie

Recruit Prosim

I hope they keep him at Defensive End..
Welp...read that wrong..that sucks

Just picked up a Tulsa kicker from the portal John Parker Romo.

He's had an interesting past. Originally was with Central Arkansas, transfer walk on at Tulsa, likely a walk on at VT

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Hope he's a better holder than his uncle Tony

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Joking aside, that's a great commitment announcement: full VPI&SU name, "best entrance in college football", "team with the most current consecutive bowl appearances", "now my new home", and so on

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Just picked up a 2020 3 star....
Sort of.

Jahad Carter is reclassifying, taking a prep year.

If he still comes to be VT.

Big Recruiting news from the Virginia tech wrestling team. They picked up the Number 2# Heavyweight and 32# overall recruit in the country Hunter Catka from PA

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

Unofficial Landers Nolley score keeper

Awesome

Recruit Prosim

Didn't think 2 pounds would categorize you as a heavyweight these days...

Blake Corum to Michigan and Quentin Williams to Miami btw

Recruit Prosim

Corum has been gone for a while so while it sucks to whiff on another guy who was once very high on us, it doesn't sting as bad.. Williams I was still holding out a bit of hope for. DL recruiting has almost reached a laughable levels

Yea same. Just thought it was noteworthy.

Recruit Prosim

Edit: I'm not gonna lie I very over stated the amount of smoke due to.beer and bad news. donv and a follower who seemingly fed him info don't have feaster here so prepare your bung holes

Based on quite a bit of Twitter smoke I would say Feaster is not ours. Nothing official yet.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

Well that's just fantastic. I really hope this upcoming season goes well. With recruiting this poor, another season hovering around .500, I don't know what you sell this program on moving forward at all. If NBA doesn't work out, what's the new thing for next year to circle the wagons and spin some positive momentum?

Break a brick

The first rule of Fight Club is we don't talk about turkey leg votes

*paver

Cartwheels have worked in the past for Bud. Maybe he can train with the gymnastics team and learn some new moves.

Little Bobby Tables told me my signature was false

Clemson - Dig Deep to Find Hidden Potential

Michigan - Let's Get Weird

Virginia Tech - Hold my beer, quit being a f****** p****, and watch this:

I mean, it's not unreasonable to see us win 10 games this season.

Twitter me

Not unreasonable. But even with this schedule, it's a huge leap to confidently say we will.

... Fucking GREAT

Manning passing academy started today. There are a ton of QBs there from across the country, wonder why none of our guys went?

Didn't want to start a thread over this.

You mean why aren't our recruits attending or why are our players not camp counselors?

Appears that Tech just signed their third RB of this small class, Jalen Hampton. Had three other P5 offers - Rutgers, Syracuse, and BC.

If the staff accepts his commitment and adds a third runningback to this class and our already crowded runningback room while we desperately need help and depth at other positions, then I have no words.

Not a bad player, but definitely not what we need right now

Recruit Prosim

With no triple option team in the ACC anymore I think I see the strategy here. Sign a roster of running backs and fill the void.

(add if applicable) /s

"If Fu goes to 2 acc champ games in 4 years, I will never criticize him again." - dcwilson

If you can't beat Paul Johnson one must become Paul Johnson to beat him

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

An insider on the pay side of TSL stated that there is a reason we picked up a 3rd RB in this class.

If VT accepts his commitment that will be a real head-scratcher. So far none of the coaches have liked his tweet, so I'm going to hang my hat on that for now.

Jahad Carter has reclassified to 2020 now, anybody have an idea of how many they are going to take in this class? I know "the numbers always work out" but I am just wondering if there is a magical number. For a small class 3 RB's seems to be insane, but I trust the coaches and their decisions.

FIRST DOWN, HOKIES!

"but I trust the coaches and their decision"

I'm not trying to start anything, I just want to understand better, but why?

Recruit Prosim

Because if the "experts" on message boards were better at it someone would be paying them to be a coach somewhere.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I dont know Fireman...it doesn't take an expert to see we didnt have enough D1 Defensive Tackles on this roster last season...

This, seems weak to me. We had Hill dismissed, Goode dismissed, Mihota fought through injuries all season, Settle leave for the draft, Belmar, Gaines, and a few others.

This image was from Nov 12. comparing our August depth chart. These changes weren't exactly planned, but it was the perfect storm this year on defense.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

I believe I did say D1 Defensive Tackles and as I recall...Cam Goode was the only Defensive Tackle we had coming in last year anyway..Mihota had injury problems his entire career..Poorly recruiting that position gets GT running up the middle on you all game..

You can't just gloss over Settle though. Early departures to the NFL aren't exactly easy to forecast and replace due to the time of year they occur. And it wasn't just DT is the deeper point. All of our units were decimated last season. Usually you have a weak unit and your strong units can cover a bit for them. A good LB corps helps back up some holes. When we are rebuilding after Frank fell off and his guys basically rebelled last year, you have Freshmen and Sophomores playing huge minutes, and doing well mind you, but unable to absorb all the injuries. Give it a year. Trust me.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Poorly recruiting that position gets GT running up the middle on you all game

Well that actually happened regardless of your recruiting at DL. Case in point, GT ran 56 times and passed 8 against Clemson and their 3 1st round draft picks last year

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

They were going to run the ball regardless...their leading rusher for that game was Taquon Marshall and he rushed 25 times for 47 yards.

I think we all know what he did against VT...all we had to do is get a couple of stops..and we can win that game..As you stated, they had 3 first round draft picks, but you dont have to have 1st round draft picks to stop that offense. If we could clone Derrick Hopkins and Luther Maddy...

So coaches are infallible until the point they are fired?

Recruit Prosim

Do you know what RB's have told the coaches about future plans? Injuries? Are they moving any of these commits positions? So yes I have no issue playing Monday morning QB, we all do. But if any of us were actually good at it someone would be paying us to do it. Since we are all on here complaining not running a team the evidence is pretty clear.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Never know if all three kids are getting recruited to stay at running back, however if all 3 do... that's a head scratcher.

Edit: also what fireman said above

Gobble Till You Wobble

With the dissatisfaction that has been exhibited by the fan base towards the veteran RBs on the team, coupled with the flirtation with the transfer window of McClease, and injury histories of Wheatley and Holston, it would not surprise me if we needed 3 recruits to replace them (either through transfers or graduation), especially if they see their workloads decrease with King/Beck/Steward/Feaster? this season and and looking at the 2020 season with Gary/Hampton/Beasley/Brunson..

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Very true. Another reason i try to reserve judgement on these types of things until everything has had a chance to play out. Really don't think the coaches are gonna bring on a third running back just for shits and giggles.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Because we have no choice but to do just that? I mean, it's not like the coaches will poll TKP and make recruiting decisions based on that. Nor should they. We trust the coaches until whit cans them. Then we trust whit to find new coaches. Anything else is an exercise in futility and isn't worth anyone's time or energy.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Thank you for the insight

Recruit Prosim

Fun facts about Georgetown Prep, where Jalen Hampton goes to school (because it's the off-season and I'm bored) :
-In 2015, it was the 4th most expensive boarding school in the US at 56.6k annually.
-Has notable alumni such as Roy Hibbert, Brian Cashman (GM of the Yankees), and two Supreme Court justices.
-Hampton went 8-1 last year and won the IAC conference.

From watching Jalen's highlights, he has great vision but doesn't have the breakaway speed you want from a guy who's 5'9. The only way I can wrap my head around this is assuming that Fuente and the offensive staff have different plans for one of these RB recruits. Congratulations to Jalen and here's hoping Fuente and Co. know what they're doing!

Little Bobby Tables told me my signature was false

GP also provides athletic scholarships to students, just like at Good Counsel, St John's, Mt St Joe's, etc. It's only but so quietly under the table.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Wonder if this says anything about Feaster's status with us?

Feaster would only be eligible for the 2019 season

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

No. Stay cautiously optimistic

Recruit Prosim

I've been seeing a lot on twitter (I'm taking it with a grain of salt) that we are not getting Feaster and he's definitely going to USCE.

"And guess what, you've wandered into our school of tuna and we now have a taste of lion." -Allen Gamble, The Other Guys
@Doooougie07

I don't think Feaster is talking to people about his decision. I would be a little surprised if Twitter was justified yet but idk

Recruit Prosim

and I've seen some stuff that says he isn't going to USCE

A few observations from Hampton's film...

1. The kid has good size. The kid looks like he could easily carry 220lbs. Add to that, from the free article on TSL, he clocked a 4.46 - 40.

2. He runs with patience and great vision behind a FB/HB. What that means is that he should be able to pick up at VT right where he leaves off in high school. To add, he seems to run "low" and with great balance around traffic.

3. He reminds me a little of Caleb Steward, a kid who I thought was underrated coming out of high school.

I have no idea why we are giving three scholarships to RBs, its a head scratcher IMO, especially when there are dire needs on the DL. With that being said, I think this kid could really thrive in the system. I'm glad he's Hokie!

Is it basketball season yet?

I have no idea why we are giving three scholarships to RBs

From what was said earlier in the thread, it looks like we may be losing some RBs

Looks like I missed that while I was scanning through.

Is it basketball season yet?

Does anyone have any sauces or is this just speculation?

February..'96...the steak: ribeye, the whiskey:Lagavulin 16, the lady next to me: a bit**.....

Jalin Hyatt just reopened his recruitment :(

"And guess what, you've wandered into our school of tuna and we now have a taste of lion." -Allen Gamble, The Other Guys
@Doooougie07

Lol...this recruiting cycle is comical how bad it has gone.

Can we just not give any schollys this year, win 10 games and then sign 35 next year??

If we can get 10 early enrollees then I'm pretty sure the answer is yes to be honest.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Oh cool that should give us a good opportunity to sign another running back with two power five offers.

This class could set us back years. I honestly don't see how anyone can justify the performance of our staff with regard to this class. It is inexcusable for us to be functioning at this level.