2020 4-star DE Antwaun Powell Commits to Florida

Seemingly out of the blue he pushed up his commitment timeline and opted for the Gators.

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We lost:

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What stings even more is that his primary recruiters were Torrian Gray and Todd Grantham.

^ This is what did it

Reach for Excellence!

VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

Then they must not be getting Kerry Blackshear right? /s

VTMidge

This comment did not age well at all. My bad.

VTMidge

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

Florida's SEC-caliber coaching and recruiting staff cuckolded Justin on this one.

If he's great it will suck - if not nobody will care. The circle of (recruiting) life.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

Either way, I'd rather he choose to prove it in O&M

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Just like Nick Dew, Holland Fisher, Dwayne Lawson, Joel Caleb - wait.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

If the point is "sometimes highly ranked recruits don't hit", well then yeah duh of course. But I'd rather have a recruiting class full of highly ranked players than a recruiting class with none.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Obviously it would be great to get him, but it's not basketball. One 4-star DE is not going to be the difference between 8 wins and 10 wins.

4-5 extra elite recruits? Possibly, but that's a separate conversation.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

more elite recruits > fewer elite recruits is all i'm sayin

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Dude I dunno why you're getting downvoted and the next post agreeing with you gets upvotes. I got you though.

Yeah another Va kid like Josh Sweat, Derrick Nnandi, Clellin Ferrell, Lavonta Taylor, Ricky Slade, Khalohn Laborn, Terajada Mitchell, and Devyn Ford go elsewhere. While we go 6-7 or 7-6 and continue to not need these guys.. Lol.

Don't forget about Dashawn Hand...

It's not a big deal. I have it on good authority that (current year +1) is when VT recruiting is REALLY set to take off.

Truth (hurts...). But the catch-22 is we need to win some more to regain the recruiting capital to have it take off. And unfortunately, we are coming off our first losing season since...I was in college.

HTHokie93

we need to win some more to regain the recruiting capital to have it take off

UNC has 247's #15 class right now. They were 2-9 last year. They had a class in the upper 80s when Mac was hired, and he finished in the low 30s.

Some coaches can recruit, some can't.

That class average is going to drop back about 15 spots at the end of the year. Plus, the just lost the 4 star QB out of Texas, Malik Hornsby, will probably have Josh Downs decommit at some point, and they lost Williams to Miami. It's not as rosy of a picture as you're making it out to be.

We can split hairs, but UNC is putting together a fine class coming off of a 2-9 season, which is to the BS point around 'winning cures all.' Mack put together a staff that can recruit. Fuente has not done that. The fact that they were able to put together the class they did last year, given where they were when he was hired is really impressive no matter how it's spun.

If Mack was coming off a 6-7 season at UNC he would not be getting those recruits. Winning doesn't cure all but the two situations aren't comparable

Yes, but our 2020 class (spare me the small numbers excuse) is going to be 100% medicore and worse than theirs. Get used to that so long as Mack and Brewster are there. Hey, we don't "need" Va kids anymore, right? because we recruit well in NC??, yeah, that's about to end to. We need to step up our recruiting game. If it means hiring a used car salesman like Brewster that couldn't "coach" a pop warner team? so be it.. you need players. Mack Brown realizes this.

UNC has always had top 30+ recruiting classes. Regardless of who the coach is, and regardless of the record, they get decent recruiting classes. There is nothing otherworldly happening with UNC recruiting that hasn't happened for the past 20 years.

UNC this year can sell playing time, and that's something that NC State or VT or UVA are probably not using as their #1 recruiting pitch. What's going to happen when they start 1-4 or 0-5 this year?

Mack was smart to take a bunch of commits early to drive up their ranking, same as GT and Louisville to create early buzz because come the start of the season, they ain't selling wins.

What's going to happen when they start 1-4 or 0-5 this year?

I don't get this take - downplaying speculation with different speculation. Why are we to just assume Mack can't coach? He's got a NC under his belt, had solid teams for the bulk of his career at TX, and is recruiting at a strong level even for UNC.

Claiming "they're not going to win" or "what's going to happen wen they start 0-5 this year?" holds as much water as those yelling from the rooftops that "Mack was too old to recruit," "His staff isn't any good," or "No one cares about Dre Bly, he's never recruited before."

I just have the feeling looking at their class and the guys they're taking commitments from aren't going to be kids that going to stick to that commitment through a rough year.

Mack can absolutely Coach when he has better horses than your team does. That's how he won at UNC, and how he won at Texas. No one has ever claimed Mack is an x and o genius.

I just don't see that quality in this class for UNC. They have a lot of solid guys, but not those difference makers that Mack would sprinkle in that made them a top 10-15 team.

I just think for this second go around at UNC, there's a lot less built in advantages then he had the last time around:

1. NC State, Wake Forest, and Duke are recruiting at higher levels

2. The recruiting landscape as a whole has changed in NC. The talent pool shifts drastically from area to area, and a lot of those recruits in the suburban areas are kids that grew up In other states and moved to NC and are not necessarily UNC basketball fans from birth

3. There are no more easy classes/keeping guys eligible

4. Mack does not have as much control over the NCHSA. Not all the state championships are played at just Kenan, and the HS coaching dynamics have changed drastically in the past 20 years.

5. The advent of social media / better communication between recruits doesn't allow for Mack's negative recruiting tactics as affective as they were in the late 90s.

6. Eventually, Blys connections to kids in Charlotte will start to run dry, then we'll see how he recruits.

I'm seeing a lot of hype, which Mack, Brewster and Bly are really good at producing. I think they have pretty decent coordinators, but I don't see substance in the position coaches. I think that's going to be an Achilles heel for UNC.

So, we'll see with UNC, but I'm not ready to burn the outhouse down yet and concede that UNC will be our new Coastal overlords.

You points are plausible, I don't agree with most of them, but I admit they are possible. But there's also a lot of people who have decided he will be bad and are searching for reasons that justify the position. Watching people try and clown him for using his NC trophy to recruit kids is pretty ridiculous.

Recruit Prosim

Because it's not a real one, that one sits in Austin. The coach doesn't get one too.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

This is what I'm talking about though. Nobody besides our salty fans care. He's 1 of 5 active national championship winning coaches. He's selling that and kids are buying it.

Go ahead. Clown the trophy.

Recruit Prosim

Yeah but HokieFireman met Fuente once and Mack is OLD so we're winning the ACC next year!!! /s/

Just so you get your facts straight for your next "point" I've met him three times and yes Mack is old, one of the oldest FBS coaches all time when the season starts.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

It is a symbol lol no one actually cares if it is the "real" trophy that isn't the point.

Just like no one cared when LOLUVA got called out for having that fake Commonwealth Cup right? Or no one cared when Tech had that empty national trophy case display?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I get the point you're making but I agree with the other guys. This is different. When someone reaches the top, i don't care how old he is, it means something more. The trophy matters less than the man. It's just a prop but it's a good one. Because even though you will call it out as a prop, most people look past it and respect what it took to get that prop. And for recruits you throw in a former championship coach, young staff of good coaches (i am assuming, haven't been following) and a Jordan brand deal and you have a lot of recruit's attention.

I'm not a Mack fan at all but I will give anyone who won a National Championship respect for having done what few ever have.

(edit: fixed stoopid grammar mistakes)

I respect what Mack accomplished and his trophy. What I don't understand is why there is some sort of envy from VT fans concerning Mack, when if the tables were turned and we had hired him, those same people would have been irate.

I guess I am just in a wait and see mode with no passionate opinion one way or the other.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

That I don't know. I neither envy him nor want him at VT.

How are those even remotely related to what Mack is using that trophy for?

It is a symbol, he is using to show kids that he's done it once and he's planning on doing it again.

We've got a hard line on real underrated guy who wants to be a Hokie. Unranked by 247 now and has offers from Army and Bowling Green, but is about to BLOW UP. Total under-the-radar guy. In Fuente We Trust! If CJF want's him, I want him.

You're handling this very well. Awesome subtweet my guy.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Truth hurt?

Edited: Y'all right. Don't need it on here.

Gobble Till You Wobble

come on, man

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Touché. My anticipation of this threads trip to negative town got the best of me.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Can the season please start so I can blissfully ignore this dreadful recruiting...

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

As goes the crootin', so goes the season (eventually).

On the field, sure, but watching any team in Lane is a lot more fun for many than any recruiting will ever be.

Even this past year, I was sad when the season ended and have only cared passingly through the recruiting cycle. Same with basketball.

My 2019 Season Challenge: only comment with Star Wars memes.

If you see these characters, they represent specific people (as of Oct. 2):

Palpatine (Fuente) || Vader (Hooker) (probationary)

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Yeah okay but what kind of percentage level of commitment are we talking about here?

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Only 100%

Phew, thank god.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

That's what I get for not bothering to click the image to see the full statement I guess.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

This is the result of 25 years of keeping DEs under 250 lbs. NFL doesn't want that. And it keeps high end talent away

That's a bingo

Don't we lead the country in sacks in that time frame? Presumably most of those are DEs.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

It's not saying we didn't have a good and from time to time great Defense. It's just pointing out the truth that we consistently strike out on prototypical pro DE because we never keep these players at DE. They get moved to DT or OL. If you're a blue chip DE recruit you go to a place that doesn't do that, plain and simple. So this really isn't a surprising outcome.

Help my memory. Who was both blue chip and good enough at DE to remain there?

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

I get what you're saying but you're missing the point. In fact, you're proving my point. No blue chip DE is willing to come. why? We lead in sacks. Known for Defense. Have one of the top DC in country. So what gives? There's a reason and it's because we move size out of DE position.

And if you are recruit it doesn't matter if those players weren't good enough. You see a system that moves size out of DE. If your dream has always been to play DE and be a pro DE, why would you risk it when another program and their system gives you confidence you will stay at DE.

Wyatt Teller comes to mind.

I don't disagree we are missing out on them. We have had some serious success though with Bud's system. It's just the way it goes in having Bud. On the flip side we are DBU. Maybe we don't have a bunch of DB draft picks if we don't have Bud but have higher ranking D-line recruits.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Oh I agree. I'm a huge supporter of Bud. But we should recognize the limitations of the system we have and not get too disappointed when we consistently whiff on prototypical DEs.

Also a lot of our DE's then get to move to LB at the NFL level.

That isn't a problem. Guys like Bradley Chubb get moved from DE to OLB. But they do it at 270 lbs, not under 250. We put nobody at NFL weight.

Guys like Bradley Chubb play "pass rusher", not specifically DE or OLB, because a lot of NFL defenses value function over label, and because of blurred distinctions in 3-4 vs 4-3 defenses each with x-number of sub-packages that have players in different alignments

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yeah that's the point. NFL just wants an edge rusher, hand in the dirt or not. And despite leading the NCAA in sacks over 25 years or whatever, we've produced an embarrassingly low number of NFL quality pass rushers. It's rare the NFL drafts edge players under 250, which we actively keep

The interesting thing is that while we have used tweeners at DE for quite some time, it hasn't been exclusively tweeners. Some of our best defenses had DE's over 250lbs. Noland Burchette, Orion Martin, and Chris Ellis, Jason Worilds, James Gayle, JR Collins, Ken Ekanem, . So those are off the top of my head, and that's not a lot of big DE's off the top of my head for the last 15 years or so.

The weird question is that all of those guys listed were good to great, and productive. I wonder why we felt the need to not go for that type of more prototypical DE more often? That's probably a more complicated answer than any of us can give directly because it is some constantly changing mix of failed NFL stints, making the best of what we could get, etc. Though all those things do play into each other, ultimately.

Well whomever had prototypical size on last years Defensive line, couldn't play. How about we find guys that can make plays?

You're exactly right.

I'm really glad you said this because it gives us an opportunity to see how we got here: So the prototypical size guys are not quick enough, not productive enough, etc? Let's play a Dadi Nicolas then, he can produce sacks and TFL's for us as he's flashed that kind of playmaking ability. Plus his speed on the edge will help us on contain and stopping some outside runs/making plays in pursuit. Now Dadi Nicolas did play in the NFL for a little while, but with little success as a true tweener he was even a bit small to effectively transition to pass rushing OLB. Now the 6'4 250lb high school recruits are being told we don't put guys like him in the NFL, but the problem is that guy wasn't there in the first place for us to put in the league. It all becomes a bit circular and then it becomes more difficult to just point out one thing as the true, ultimate cause of the situation we find ourselves in.

On some level we have to address it, but the reality is we are retroactively criticizing decisions made by BF 15-20 years ago that have resulted in us having consistent top 15 defenses, multiple top 10 and top 5 defenses, and multiple number one defenses during this tenure, also producing the most sacks and interceptions in the entire country over that same time period. That's the tough part, it's true that our DE choices have cost us some recruits, and is really biting us in the ass right now, but on the field in actual college football games these decisions helped define an era as the Lunch Pail defense. Quite a predicament.

THIS +1

And this same kind of circular situation is why you get people saying "recruit to the system, stars don't matter, we've been fine on defense for the last 20 years without it, we can identify the talent to fit the scheme" whenever we don't land a blue chipper and take a lower rated player instead -- the defense has been excellent historically.

It's not that they're wrong, per se, but it just becomes self-fulfilling almost. We have the talent that fits the scheme that is schemed to the talent we have. French probably has a more nuanced take on this because of his understanding of scheme and a better grasp of what Foster has historically asked his players to do on defense, but it's not like we turned away those "prototype" DL players who have/had a clear defined future at the next level (think Da'shawn Hand, Josh Sweat, KJ Henry among others). And it's not like we would turn away the Myles Garrets, the Bosa brothers, the Jadeveon Clowneys of the world.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I agree completely.

There has never been a time where we actively didn't want those top level DL players, we have just never been able to get them with any remote level of consistency.

We play the Dadi Nicolas's - under the radar late bloomer florida kid that was a 3 star recruit only because of VT's offer- not because we WANT to, but because we HAVE to. We played Tremaine Edmunds at Backer - an absolute beast- because we could. He was an Edmunds, he was a hokie. We couldn't recruit a player like him back to back for the past 30 years. They just don't come here, but when they do, they magically fit Bud's "scheme". Tim Settle is a huge DT, but more importantly he is a 4 borderline 5 star player. He fit the scheme fine. He is a better player than Jerod Hewitt. That is a cold fact. Wiles plays tweeners because he has to, not because he wants to. If Ferrell would have came here, he would have played the same spot/technique he did at Clemson. why? because he is a high 4 star top 10 NFL draft talent, that's why. We need someone that can close on the big time defensive players - all positions - in recruiting. Period. Hire that guy. Hire the Clemson guy. Hire whomever recruits these guys for Bama. It's not the scheme. "Big" guys have played well in the scheme when we have been able to actually sign them.

I'm not arguing with this. It goes perfectly with what I am saying. We have had to play who we had. Those elite recruits were never going to fail at VT because of our scheme, yet it was still used against us anyway. Much like propaganda, it doesn't matter if there is any truth to it. If more people believe and know the propaganda because the voices spouting it are loud and consistent it doesn't matter if there are a few people trying to argue for the truth. Especially when the voices arguing from the truth are smaller, quieter, and have less exposure.

What about Keshon Artis and the other 757 guys recruiting him? Good job, Keshon! /s

These players can't recruit

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

...cause we're not paying them enough.

We put the K in Kwality

We've been recruiting pretty fine offensively the past couple years, but defense has regressed year after year. At what point does a complete defensive staff overhaul become possible?

I love Bud, but it just seems like we aren't going to consistently hit on our top defensive targets until something changes. We need more Vance Vice's, and less Brian Mitchell's on the trail.

In Sam Rogers we trust.

We recruited much better on defense in 17 and 18 classes. 19 was the first class offense had more blue-chip recruits.

The downward trend is true, the issues landing DL are true, but we can't sacrifice facts.

His contract is up in 6 mos.

This would seem to be a lifeline for Fuente if this class tanks (or if he thinks it will tank). Would he take it?

Also, if the defensive staff really is the reason for the poor crootin', will Fuente sacrifice an entire class to get to the end of Bud's contract?

i think we'd more likely see a "retired" than a "fired"

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Of course... sometimes retired is chosen by the retiree and sometimes the retiree is encouraged to retire. I can't imagine Bud is expecting to coach very much longer. The problem is that he may be recruiting guys he knows he will never coach. I think when that happens, you've already been coaching too long.

Edit: Also... is there a transfer portal window? Or is it just always an option throughout the season? Could the staff just be waiting until the window closes to announce staff changes?

I definitely agree about the context of "retiring".

I don't think the portal ever "closes" because it's used across all NCAA sports, but you'd think there would be a hard deadline somewhere (maybe it varies school-to-school) in terms of matriculation/enrollment for the semester in which the player would be playing and receiving scholarship money.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

2 of Fuentes highest rated recruits were on defense

Recruit Prosim

Bud is legitimately the only reason we have Dax

Recruit Prosim

We're really going to love it in a year when he wants to "be closer to home" and ends up at UNC

Gobble Till You Wobble

*curb your enthusiasm music intensifies*

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Florida. Why'd it have to be Florida?

Hopefully, Armani Chatman was referring to someone else when he tweeted that he thought he got us another one

I wouldn't be too hopeful with that.

(add if applicable) /s

FUCK

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

PAT NARDIZZI

"Give me a fu¢king beer", Anonymous Genius

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"If at first you do not succeed, then skydiving is not for you." - Anonymous

you stole my gif!

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

Recruiting is a pain in the ass

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

I always wonder how fun following recruiting is for blue bloods/teams that recruit well. Must be exciting.

(add if applicable) /s

Yeah i would love to be one of them cause this is depressing

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

Na its exactly like this but but they are pissed that they lost a 5 star and Clemson is taking all their recruits and that 4* from VA isnt as good as a 3* from FLa.

Using /s is for cowards.

For this gif to truly represent what's going on right now, the catcher needs to throw the ball back to the pitcher and bean the batter in the head.

Don't forget that big sexy sumbitch hit a homerun a couple years ago. Our homerun will come at some point...maybe.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

Our 2020 class is dead last in the ACC and #86 in the country. I know it's early, but it's not that early. This is pathetic.

So it's cuttlefish & asparagus on the menu again....

cool. *flips football field table*

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

We have stagnated so much under Fuente that we are now a giant red flag that recruits don't want to touch. Why would anyone want to be the only elite athlete to commit somewhere? That's not a sign of a quality program.

This problem will not be easy to fix. If the proper actions aren't taken soon enough, it will spiral to a level that will be unrecoverable for us.

I apologize for being dramatic, but we are hedging bets here on giving additional years to a staff that hasn't shown they have the ability to recruit at the level that's required to compete. The stakes are pretty high just to give a guy what most posters consider a fair shake. Sometimes, it makes the most sense to cut your losses before everything is gone.

Recruit Prosim

Firing a coach after his first losing season (with a freshman riddled team) after winning 10 and 9 games the two seasons before is exactly how you bury a program. Fuente was arguably the best coaching hire of 2017. Do you think we manage to pull off another hire even half as good after we just fired their predecessor for one mediocre season? Don't think so.
Stability and a rational AD is what made our job so attractive in the first place.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

Best hire based on what, speculation? He wouldn't be nearly the hot commodity he was if he was released today.

As an exercise, if we parted ways with Fuente right now, where do you think is the best school that he would be offered the HC roll?

Recruit Prosim

A top 30 P5 program. I think he could get an Oklahoma State level job if it opened up.

As an exercise, if we parted ways with Fuente right now, who do you think is the best coach that we could land? I don't think it's someone better than Fuente.

Twitter me

Depends who's available at the end of this year. I would love to go after someone from the Saban tree that understands big time football. But I think we're in a worse position now than we hired Fuente. I felt like we had more to offer in 2015.

Recruit Prosim

I felt like we had more to offer in 2015.

When aggregated the 13-15 seasons don't begin to approach the 16-18 seasons. Not to mention the opening of the Beamer Barn, upcoming renovations, and Hokie Club growth.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Ah yes, the same strategy nearly every SEC team has been trying for the past decade with little success. Not only that, but the second the coach won 10 games, he would flee back to a different SEC school with deeper pockets just to complete the cycle.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

That's fine. Id take 10 wins over 6. And why wouldn't you want to emulate the SEC? They are doing well. Better than we are atm.

Recruit Prosim

Nick Saban proteges have been very hit or miss. For every Jimbo or Kirby there's a Dooley or a Muschamp. Personally, if I have to pick a coaching tree, I'd prefer the Hal Mumme/Mike Leach tree.

Anyways, point still stands - if you want us to fire Fuente, who would you replace him with? If you're going to start a conversation suggesting a staffing change, please make it constructive. Otherwise, it's just meaningless bitching and it's no fun to discuss. It's a lot more interesting when people put time and effort into their posts and provide an actual solution.

Twitter me

Why? Even if I had the answer, it wouldn't matter. I'm not Whit. Nobody on this board is. As a fan all we can do is voice our approval or disapproval

Recruit Prosim

Because providing intelligent takes is far more interesting than just complaining.

At its heart, The Key Play (TKP) is an active and growing online community. Thoughtful, intelligent, and funny posts by the members are what separate the site from others online.

Twitter me

I think Gary Patterson is basically a better Fuente, but I doubt he leaves TCU for us right now.

I would like to go after any of the Dan Mullen, Gus Malzahn, Will Muschamp, Joe Moorhead's of the world whenever they are inevitably fired for not beating Saint Nick.

Dino is doing yuuuuge things at Syracuse but I think a lot of it hinged on their QB. I would like to see how they do this year without him. Not a splash hire and I don't think he would attract top talent but I think he may at least be willing to hire a recruiting oriented staff.

I would also be interested to see if we could poach Brohm from Purdue.

Go ahead and tear my selections to shreds to justify why Fuente is our best option.

Edit: almost forgot. When we inevitability look to the G5 for our next head coach, Heupel seems pretty solid. But we'll probably have to fight several other programs for him.

Recruit Prosim

Go ahead and tear my selections to shreds to justify why Fuente is our best option.

Best and realistic don't always overlap. Don't conflate someone saying we can't lure or afford a particular coach as being the same as them not being better. Of course there are coaches better than Fuente, but whether we could actually get them or afford to pay them is another matter. Gary Patterson looks like a TCU lifer. Three of your four SEC suggestions make a couple million more a year than Fuente as well as having larger assistant pools. Brohm just turned down his alma mater offering to increase his pay to sign an extension at Purdue.

Dino is probably the only one on this list I could see us both affording and being able to coax away from their current job and competing offers, and that's subject to change by the time we would theoretically be making a coaching change.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Brohm and Dino also still have time to disappoint... Brohm finished 6-7 last year and is .500 for his career at Purdue, without a single win over a ranked team. Dino went 4-8 in his first two season with Syracuse. Two of their three best performances last year (Loss to Clemson and Win over WVU) came with their opponents starting QBs out due to injury or sitting out for the draft. Beyond that, Syracuse is losing super senior QB Eric Dungy, so expect some regression next season.

Twitter me

Oh don't mistake my touching on those two in my post for supporting us hiring them or thinking they're better coaches.

And splitting hairs, but Brohm absolutely licked a very good Ohio State team last season which was a big reason why Louisville wanted him and Purdue extended him.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

ah forgot about that. You're right. editing my post....

Twitter me

The point I'm trying to get at is that it's just really difficult to project coaching success. Your choices are to hire (a) a proven G5/FCS head coach, (b) a successful P5 coordinator, or (c) a failed SEC/Blueblood coach, none of which come with near certainty of success. There's no one who falls into either of those three categories who I can confidently say would deliver better results than Fuente in the next three years.

Beyond that, I still have faith in Fuente. I think his work at Memphis was one of the most impressive coaching feats in the past 15 years, and I think his first year here proved what he can do with a dynamic QB. I'm curious to see how big of a step forward we take this season.

Twitter me

I'm confused with what you're looking for... You're looking at last season and this recruiting class in a vacumm. Fuente won 10 and 9 games in his first seasons. Do those seasons not count? Is that fine? Are you saying that 10 win seasons are satisfactory, but as soon as they drop below 7 wins its time to "cut our losses"?

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

Fuente was hired to elevate the program, not maintain the status quo. Frank Beamer didn't know modern offense, Frank Beamer couldn't "close" on big time recruits needed to compete for the ACC, the game had past Frank Beamer by, and Shane was a nepotism hire, right? Well Fuente wasn't hired to occasionaly compete for the coastal and keep recruiting in the high 20's low 30's. Frank recruited at that level, even late in his career. We were told we were getting "more", we want more. Yes, the offense is now top 50, but can't score in the second half against good competition. Stiney did that just fine too. We were told - by everyone- we were getting more, and we have gotten the status quo- or worse thus far. Period.

I think the comments 'Fuente has not delivered on year 3 expectations' and 'we need to cut [our] losses before everything is gone.' are two completely different statements.

The former (your comment) is correct - No one (on this site, in the media, etc) expected VT to be in this position entering year 4 of the Fuente era. TJB's take that we should just blow it up the coaching staff is impulsive and fails to account for a number of considerations, including but not limited to the financial health of the athletic department, the appeal of the job, the potential for a breakout season.

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With fuentes buyout I also agree that we can't afford to cut ties. I don't want to do it out of spite. I do want the best results for VT.

Recruit Prosim

I fundamentally disagree with "we got the status quo- or worse". If it was year 3 and Fuente had gone 8-5, 7-6, & 7-6, I'd 100% agree with you. I'd want him fired as much as I wanted Lefty fired. That is not the case. Fuente has gone 10-4, 9-4, and 6-7. The first 2 seasons are something Beamer hadn't done for 4 years. This is not the mid 2000's. The college football landscape has changed, as has our program, and frankly, VT hasn't benefited from either.

Simply put, Fuente has elevated our program. We aren't back to the 98-2011 days, but we are closer than we were. Does Fuente have his flaws? Absolutely. Is Fuente our best chance at getting back to the "glory days"? Also yes.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

He has not "elevated" the program by any measure... not the least of which will be the 70th ranked recuiting class he is about to bring in. Elevated? nnnnnooopppe. Don't want to see the guy fired, but lets be real here. VT is a regional program struggling to recruit and retain guys. That's not elevated.

I'm not exactly sure we're struggling to retain players
relative to anyone else in the new normal of the portal. We aren't really seeing players jump to other P5 programs unless there were other circumstances in play.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Mook and Hill may have helped forced a 3 and out vs. GT. Our opening day starting QB from last year left. One of our top 3 WRs in terms of production left- for ODU an LB in the 2 deep left mid year. It's an issue, and we can whistle past the graveyard on it- that's fine, but it's not the "norm" for good programs- even with the portal.

You are correct, but no coach would have been able to keep Mook on the team. That was a school policy decision.

As for Hill, I am not sure that ANY coach would have made a similar decision if the rumors were true.

Not sure what happened with Kumah, and I will miss him.

Sure. I'd argue there is a yuge difference between "we struggle to retain players" and "two players got kicked off our team".

Especially considering I purposefully added the qualifier "unless there were other circumstances in play". Neither Mook, Kearney, nor Kumah landed at a P5 anyhow. Josh Jackson might be the best argument against me, but it definitely felt to me like he thought he should be given his starting job back rather than having to outplay everyone else in camp to earn it when he came back from injury.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

We are better off now than we were 3 years ago. The job is obviously not done, but I consider that elevated. The 2020 recruiting class sucks and its likely going to stay that way, but Fuente's other classes are a step up (albeit small) from what we had.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

I'll say it again. Fuente was brought in to elevate the "PROGRAM".. not improve a cherry picked 3 year window slightly. No, he was hired to raise the recruiting profile and evolve the offense- in a big way. I don't want to see him fired, but my point is, he needs to start recruiting - a LOT better to do what everyone said he was hired to do.

Agreed. The offense hasn't made a huge step forward yet. There has been a lot of turnover (new QB each year effectively) but going into year 4, big strides should be made regardless.

Cherry picked? You mean the time that he's worked here...?

Calling VT a 'mid-tier,' or 'barely above .500' program based on Franks final 3 years is what he's referring to as being cherry-picked. That's no way indicative of the program VT had been from 1995-20011. Fuente wasn't brought in to build on Franks outro

The problem with this viewpoint is that it isn't indicative of what Tech was as a team when Fuente was hired. We were a "barely above .500" program. This isn't an indictment of Frank. He took us almost to the top. Since that magical season, we've sniffed close to that level only a couple of times. There are folks on here who don't understand why kids today don't remember that we led the Natty Champ game going into the 4th qtr and were " " this close to having the title and why wouldn't they want to play for us and ... The truth is, the kids we recruit today weren't even born then, and we haven't been truly relevant since 2011.

Slamming people who point this out doesn't make them wrong or mean that they are cherry picking. Realistically, we weren't that great, for whatever reason, and are still trying to rebuild the program.

Exhibit A:

It seems that the disconnect is that some people expected that Fuente could eventually get the program back close to 1995-2011 while others expected him to elevate the program beyond that in relatively short order. I'd remind everyone that Beamer was a Hall of Fame coach in the Top 10 of all-time D1 wins. Replacing a legendary coach and exceeding the success of his glory years within 4 years on the job is... well, if not expecting the impossible, damn close to it.

Also while I know there were numerous substantial challenges Beamer had to overcome when he became head coach in 1987 and that the landscape of major college football has dramatically changed since, I still believe it's worth reminding everyone that it took until year 7 for Beamer to field a top 25 team. Despite not finishing as a Top 25 team for the last 4 years under Beamer, Fuente accomplished that in his first two seasons here and I believe there was improvement on the field over previous seasons.

I don't dispute that 2018 was a bad season, nor do I think those results are consistently acceptable, or that 2020 recruiting has been extremely disappointing thus far- those are valid concerns that are worth considering. However, I firmly believe the amount of backlash directed toward Fuente these days is premature. Personally, I believe our performance and results on the field will be much improved this fall. If that doesn't happen, then I think it's reasonable to put Fuente under increased scrutiny and potentially expect more visible changes (i.e. assistant coaches).

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Nope.

My comment was mostly a jab. I actually care less about the immediate results and more about which direction we are trending.

You mentioned looking at things in a vacuum; let's not look at recruiting classes or records in a vacuum. Fuente started off on fire. He had 2 great seasons and 2 solid recruiting classes. There was a lot less bitching going on then.

However, where we expected to see progress and elevation of the program, we took a huge step back with our first losing record in God knows how many years and a recruiting class that is a pitiful mess. 6-7 is great if last year was 5-8. It's pretty bad when you went 9-4.

That's why this years results are so huge. Was last season just process noise? Or is it a trend? I understand jumping off the Fuente wagon could be detrimental, but so could riding until the wheels fall off, and it seems like nobody wants to admit that. Everyone just wants to say we're overreacting for pointing out a very obvious problem with our staff and using anecdotal examples to justify why he should stay X number of years even if we do poorly.

Recruit Prosim

To your 3rd point, I think most realistic fans expected a step back in lieu of progress. Between players leaving for the NFL/other attrition, the team was going to be super young and the writing was on the wall that this team would struggle.

This years results are huge, but I honestly believe that this team will be greatly improved (more experience, culture, and strength training) and could easily win 9 games with the schedule. A successful season will also help recruit a large 2021 class. Those 2 things would get the program firmly on an upward trajectory. I just hope we can survive the 2020 recruiting class and it doesn't haunt us in 2024/25.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

I think that depends on how you gauge success. The biggest hurdle for any of those former Saban assistants is that they still have to go through Saban, who is arguably the GOAT in order to win the conference or a national title. The reality is that many of those assistants are doing extremely well:

  • Mario Cristobal has Oregon recruiting better than they ever have, and Oregon fans are confident he has them trending back upwards from their huge dip after 2014.
  • Kirby Smart speaks for himself, he has been recruiting for Georgia at a Saban level, and it's safe to say we would all be stoked out of our minds if we were trending the way Georgia is. Kirby Smart is young and has Georgia poised to be a top 5 team for potentially the long-term.
  • Jeremy Pruitt's first full-cycle recruiting class at Tennessee (2019) finished 12th, two spots behind Clemson at 10th, and would have been good for 2nd in the ACC. (we'll come back to this) So far in 2020 Tennessee sits at 23rd with 7 of their 11 recruits as blue-chippers. His long term success as coach remains to be seen, but he's got an uphill battle given the resurgence of the SEC East with Georgia and Florida.
  • Jim McElwain went 10-4 and 9-4 in his first two seasons at Florida winning the SEC East both years.
  • Jimbo Fisher won a National Title with Florida State, immediately turned Texas A&M into a team that almost beat Clemson, most likely only losing because of an extremely questionable fumble over the pylon for a touchback costing them points.
  • Will Muschamp, say what you will about Muschamp as a coach failing to build an offense at Florida, but his SCar project is a little difficult to judge wholistically at the moment. He took over an absolute dumpster left in the wake of Spurrier's departure and has them recruiting at a high level, likely to have a great class this year. It's not difficult to think he would be having more success based on talent discrepancy in another conference. That said, if you read this and say "Na, he's trash as a coach." that's fine, if he's the worst on this list, this is a hell of a list.
  • Mark Dantonio is 107-51 at Michigan State, has won a Rose Bowl, has won the B1G three times in the 2010's and made a playoff appearance.

This is ignoring a tremendous number of other assistants who have been wildly successful as both coaches and recruiters at their new locations. This is just a list of some of the bigger ones.

Additionally, you can say what you will about their lack of winning the SEC, etc. Which is a ridiculous thing to set as a success baseline when they are going up against arguably the best dynasty and best coach of all time every year. In another conference I would expect many of these guys to be much more successful. This statement leads to a lot of dumb questions about "well why don't they go to [insert school in weaker P5 conference] so they can win 10+ games more often?" The answer to that is easy, if you look at college football as a CAREER which it is for these coaches, if they have an opportunity to coach in the best conference, who will pay them the most money, give them the most resources, and participate in the most meaningful regular season matchups of the year, why the hell would they choose to go to Wake or NC State? You know which fanbases don't complain about never having any good home games or away games to go to in most seasons like we regularly do and most other ACC fanbases? All these SEC teams who in any given year play some combination of Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, South Carolina, Ole Miss, Miss State, Arkansas, Texas A&M, etc. All of whom have big, full, loud stadiums and/or cool college towns to visit and dope tailgating atmospheres. We certainly can't offer that in the ACC outside of 3-4 schools.

Not sure if I want to go down this tangent, but I despise this notion that working for Saban gives a coach immediate credibility.

  • McElwain won 10 games/season by beating up on a weak SEC East. Despite being touted as an offensive genius, his UF teams never broke into the top 110 teams in total offense and never broke the top 50 in S&P+ offensive ratings. Fuente's VT offenses have outperformed McElwain's UF offenses by almost every measure. At best, McElwain's UF teams were similar to Beamer's 2008/09 teams - hideous offenses, great defenses, weak conference/division.
  • I'm not sure you can include Mario Cristobal under the Saban coaching tree. Yea, I get it, he was Saban's OL coach, but he was already an HC previously at FIU, where he helped FIU get their first winning season EVER. He was fired after one bad season.
  • I'm not high on Will Muschamp at SCar. Time will tell how this turns out, but I don't think he will get them back to peak Spurrier days.
  • As far as Pruitt goes, Butch Jones did just as good a job recruiting as Pruitt is doing now, and we saw how he turned out.
  • Don't forget Dooley and Major Applewhite, both Saban proteges, neither of which have had particularly successful headcoaching careers.

I'm suggesting that we should avoid Saban proteges at all costs, I'm just saying that should not be a limiting factor in our hypothetical coaching search that I hope never comes to reality.

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One constant is that just about every coach that works for Saban learns how to recruit effectively. Every tree has their hits and misses, and his tree is large and notable so it's bound to attract more criticism, but the reality is that his coaching tree is very, very impressive, and there's a reason they have so much turnover because everyone keeps hiring all his assistants.

That's a fair point, but I think you need to account for each protege's destination. Kirby, Fisher, Cristobal, and Pruitt are all tearing it up at recruiting, but they're also coaching at schools that had a ton of funding (and often recruiting success) before these coaches arrived there (Cristobal is sort of an exception, but I think Oregon's Athletic dept is closer to that of Bama than VT).

Dantonio is the only Saban disciple who has landed at a program similar to VT, and he hasn't been breaking recruiting records there (granted, I'll concede that Dantonio is an assistant from before Saban fine tuned 'the process').

All this to say that I'm not sure the Saban system would work (immediately) at VT.

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Of course, it's definitely easier to recruit at those locations but a lot of those guys have offered something of a step up. Pruitt, for example, is one of the best DC's of many of our lifetimes (particularly your and mine's age bracket assuming that 1990 is your birth year, 92 here). So while Butch did have some good recruiting classes, Pruitt has the recruiting edge (and one that seems to be trending upward instead of Butch's downward success) plus being an elite defensive mind. Kirby is the same situation, an elite defensive mind of our lifetime and an elite recruiter. Richt recruited well at Georgia, but Kirby brought them straight to Bama-tier or near Bama-tier recruiting. The on-field results aren't there for all of them, and some of that has come down to stubborn assistant hires (Muschamp's unwillingness to give up the offensive style he wanted to someone more forward thinking at Florida), but they are still producing. The resources help tremendously, the swanky facilities, big stadiums, all play into recruiting, but these guys are also great at the actual act of pitching, selling, and landing recruits. It doesn't always work, but they are definitely all above average on the trail. Also, those guys were still hired to those big schools who can recruit well somewhat off of their name and stature, because they were thought to be good coaches for the future of the program. At some point, you can't fault a coach who is recruiting well just based off the location/school being an already easier to recruit to spot, they themselves do play a major part in the recruiting success.

As for immediate success at VT. Perhaps not, but it would be really interesting to see what one of the elite Bama recruiting assistants could do at VT. I'd imagine we'd at the very least see an initial recruiting boost based off hype, future promise, and recruiting pitch talent of the incoming coach.

Seems to have been straightened out under Saban. I'm not sure he would ever take the VT job or not, but he is a guy that is as elite as it gets on the recruiting trail. Recruits rave about how real he is and and how much they love him. Bama probably will miss on 2-4 5* recruits this class that were damn near guarantees if they had kept Lupoi on staff.

Pretty much all media outlets had VT landing Fuente as one of the top 3 hires of the year. And yea, that was based on speculation because that is literally all you have when hiring a coach.

And FWIW with regards to your exercise, Fuente was allegedly contacted for FSU's opening just last year.

One bad/mediocre does not condemn a career.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

Would be interesting to see where we would be if he went to FSU and we had his buyout money to spend on a new coach after a moderately successful season

Recruit Prosim

We have stagnated so much under Fuente that we are now a giant red flag that recruits don't want to touch.

Is this hyperbole? You think that after one losing season recruits are just over us? Recruiting is about building relationships and finding a fit. I've been critical of Fuente's recruiting too, but this statement is so off base.

Sometimes, it makes the most sense to cut your losses before everything is gone.

And replace it with what?

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Shane Beamer. Fans were thrilled when he was on staff and clamped down on recruiting in Richmond.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Gobble Till You Wobble

This is one of the whiniest, chicken little, wimpy takes I have seen. Cut our losses? Red flags? Fire Bud? This take is embarassing. Downvote me if you disagree...dont care.

VHokie

Recruit Prosim

Na, we should just disband football, I mean if we arent going to win a title why play, right.

/ s because someone will think I'm serious

This explains so much.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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Brought to you by TKP's "voice of grounded reality"!

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

🤷🏻‍♂️

Recruit Prosim

I'm sure this has been said here in some version before, but even if our athletic department felt Fuente's seat is as warm as some of you do (which I don't think they do), where is the money for his buyout coming from? It'll be 2022 before it's less than $10 million.

That was the surprising thing about his contract. We are tied to Fuente pretty hard.

Bounce back on defense, and offense finally gets the same QB two years in a row and we should win 10 games and all this talk disappears.

Is it surprising or was it forethought? Personally I'm under the opinion that Whit knew this would be a process and showed confidence in his hire by giving him a contract that guarantees he had space to work within.

Not only the "don't be the man that follows the man" aspect, but all evidence of Whit points to doing his homework. He likely understood/understands the challenges the program faced as well as the tendency for most folks to treat everything and everyone as disposable commodities now-a-days.

He gave his coach time. Based on these and other forums, I'm very happy he had that foresight.

Why would Whit give away his own leverage?

Recruit Prosim

because selectively using leverage is how you establish a good-faith working relationships

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Having leverage is different than using leverage.

Recruit Prosim

My dad has diabetes.

/s

Of course having and using leverage are different. But you can only use it if you have it, and electing not to wield leverage like a cudgel is one way to selectively use it and build a good faith relationship. You know, like hiring and retaining a coach?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I respectfully disagree. I think you can keep leverage in your back pocket for safe keeping and still give him space and foster a good working relationship. I dint think that's what Whit did. I think Whit just didn't negotiate a great deal because at that time Fuente was doing well and he was afraid of losing him. I'm sure that Fuente leveraged the possibility of leaving to negotiate his end of the contract

Recruit Prosim

Why would Whit give away his own leverage?

hiring and retaining a coach

Fuente was doing well and he was afraid of losing him

Fuente leveraged the possibility of leaving to negotiate his end of the contract

so then maybe it's possible Whit didn't actually "give away" much leverage at all? Do we know the buyout from Fuente's side if another school wants to hire him? A high buyout can cut both ways and (say it with me now) help foster a healthy good-faith relationship

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Well, then everyone will be complaining about how shooting for 10 wins and ACC Championship is not good either, and we should aspire to more.

You have to win 10 before you can win 12. :)

I believe it's been mentioned here before that the coaching staff is in a lose lose situation this year when it comes to Fuente skeptics. We either under perform against a weak schedule and the staff rightfully gets shaken up in some capacity, or they put together a 9+ win season to lukewarm reception because that's what was expected of them anyway. Unless we do better than making the ACCCG and playing Clemson close or making and winning a big time bowl game it will be hard to change the overall perception of the program to the most ardent detractors because, well, the schedule was weak anyway.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Win the coastal and finish top 50 S&P+ defense, top 25 S&P+ offense. Those are reasonable stretch goals for the coaching staff that will satisfy the fanbase.

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I hope you're right.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Winning the coastal or 10 wins overall would satisfy me for this year.

Recruit Prosim

I've become a Fuente skeptic. Not a hater by any stretch, but a skeptic. It's not just because of wins and losses, and certainly not because of one poor season. It's because I've gotten the impression the program is starting to struggle to tread water.

I think Fuente can certainly right the ship, and if we win 9 games or the Coastal this year I'll be absolutely thrilled and back on board the Fuente bandwagon.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Fuente was under a lot of heat at the end of the season, and it was beginning to cool off. Despite the below average recruiting class, we've made the excuse that we only have six seniors and we were going to have a small class anyway (not a bad excuse). As long as we land this guy, it's a good class.

Well, here we are now.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Anyone hoping he gets fired this season better start donating their 6 figure donations today. It's wither 15 or 12.5 million buyout.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I'm not hoping he gets fired this season. I'm hoping we can win 9 games against the easiest schedule in P5, and I'm hoping we can start recruiting at a higher level than an average C-USA team. Nobody wants him to get fired, we just want to stop regressing.

Nobody wants him to get fired, we just want to stop regressing.

::Looks three posts up::

I apologize for being dramatic, but we are hedging bets here on giving additional years to a staff that hasn't shown they have the ability to recruit at the level that's required to compete. The stakes are pretty high just to give a guy what most posters consider a fair shake. Sometimes, it makes the most sense to cut your losses before everything is gone.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Fair. But the majority of the comments are just talking about how this sucks and how it's unacceptable, which is similar to a lot of threads last year discussing our poor on-field results. We're sports fans; we're allowed to complain on a message board when our football coach is failing to get the job done. But every time someone suggests that we should be doing better, Fireman swoops in with a "well ACTUALLY, this all comes down to money, so if you want to complain about it you better put your money where your mouth is."

It's just tiresome. He tells me how to spend my money more than my financial advisor.

I've done more my fair share of complaining but there does come a point where it crosses a line or becomes counterproductive. The majority of the comments you're referring to don't bother me at all. I understand why people would get annoyed at Fireman's posts due to the repetition and volume of responses, but at least he's hanging his hat on a tangible action that he believes would bring VT more success. The comments that are detrimental to my enjoyment of TKP are those that seem to relish failures as providing "I told you so" moments.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Taking ownership of that comment, I agree with other poster. I have nothing against Fuente. I am actively rooting for him to turn this around. I just don't want us to regress. I think a lot of people are misconstruing doubt for disdain or contempt. I sincerely hope he elevates our team. I just personally don't see the signs and I don't want to suffer irreparable damage to the program while we wait to find out

Recruit Prosim

I don't see how anyone could think there's irreparable damage being done short of getting severe sanctions or the death penalty. Virginia Tech is not going to become Duke, Rutgers, or Kansas after 4 years under Fuente.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Lol then you significantly overestimate our resources, brand, and prestige. Teams with way more than us like Nebraska, Miami, even Texas have struggled and floundered for years trying to claw their way back to relevance. You think we'll fare better?

Recruit Prosim

I don't think you understand how bad of shape Kansas is in.

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Yeah they had to hire Les Miles, he hasnt beaten Saban in like a decade. They are really slumming it with his 71% winning percentage.

All joking aside, Kansas and Duke have brand names and money from other avenues. Once they get serious and hire coaches that can be 2nd fiddles (like cutcliffe) they can do alright. Rutgers is fucked.

The Texas left in ruins by the coach we are now gushing over at UNC? \s sort of

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

Lol I'm not sure you know what irreparable means. Texas won the Sugar Bowl over Georgia last season.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I think the sheer amount of financial resources available to Texas and the mostly awful results from 2010 up until last year should stand as proof that money alone does not win championships for you.

He didn't say Texas was irreparable. He said Texas has basically infinite resources and they still sucked ass for several years. If that can happen to them, much worse could happen to us.

I'm not the one who brought up the term "irreparable." Yes VT's floor is lower than Texas' but that wasn't the question. VT had been hit with sanctions and was an independent team when Beamer took over in 1987. We had to pay to get in the Big East and then by the grace of government intervention made it to the ACC. It's beyond laughable to think that going 6-7 has doomed us to the fate of perennial FBS bottom feeder.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

But that comment wasn't about the damage from going 6-7 last year. You have to take the "irreparable" comment in the context of his original comment:

We have stagnated so much under Fuente that we are now a giant red flag that recruits don't want to touch. Why would anyone want to be the only elite athlete to commit somewhere? That's not a sign of a quality program.

This problem will not be easy to fix. If the proper actions aren't taken soon enough, it will spiral to a level that will be unrecoverable for us.

I think the concern is if we don't win this year, these recruiting issues are going to repeat themselves next year, and the following year, and that's when the irreparable damage can start happening.

Irreparable? Nope. We already fell a lot farther than people want to admit at the end of the Beamer era. Make one hire that works out and we'll be fine. There's no relegation to G5 or FCS.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Who said anything about relegation to G5 or FCS? Nobody is worried about that. Worst case scenario, over the next 5-10 years we solidify ourselves as a mediocre program like NC State, Pitt, UNC, etc.. Not necessarily irreparable, but that kind of regression would be very difficult to overcome if we ever have any hope of competing on the national stage again.

Make one hire that works out and we'll be fine.

Just about every bad P5 team in the country feels this way. Easier said than done.

Regardless, I didn't even say the word irreparable. I was just putting it into the context of the original comment. I think if we win 9 games this year, which we should and we better, recruiting will bounce back to the at least level it was the past couple years.

So it wouldn't actually be irreparable, which is what I was pointing out in the first place? I'm not trying to be rude but I don't understand why we went back and forth. Even if you interpreted it as slight exaggeration for dramatic effect, it's still not clear to me the original commenter believes that to be the case.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I'm sorry but this is delusional.

Recruit Prosim

Which part of what I'm saying is delusional exactly? Honestly do you think VT has been an elite program and legit title contender in the last decade? We've fallen so far under Fuente's watch that we went from 7-6 season in 2015, after a 3 point win against a 6-7 Tulsa, to a 6-7 season last year, after a 4 point loss to an 11-2 ranked Cincinnati. It's easy to dismiss someone as delusional, but I'm actually open to changing my mind if you can bring facts and evidence to support your perspective instead of quips and hyperbole.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I never said I hope he gets fired. I will say that I don't think we need to break the bank to recruit well, Fuente or no Fuente. We're currently being outrecruited by Mack Brown's staff for a team that won 2 games last season.

Donations help, but maybe start by reallocating some funds from the Olympic sports and go all in on football and men's basketball. Yeah, it'd be cool to see our track team win a championship, but who's going to remember it? We clown UVA fans all the time for bragging about their less than meaningful championships.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

Hmm and who signed him to that massive premature one-sided deal when we got scared he might be looking elsewhere? I'm not hoping he's fired or wishing for him to fail, but we really backed ourselves into a corner with his contract. Now it really had better work out because we can't afford an alternative if we continue to slide. I know he was one of the top candidates on the board the year we hired him, but I think everyone immediately assumed it was a sure fire thing. A lot of our fan base (and maybe administration) isn't willing to accept the reality that it might not work out.

If he loses to ODU again, the numbers are a meaningless.

This class sucks right now but it is 6 months until NSD and this class was not going to be great no matter what due to size (and the star rankings will rise and fall between now and then). The last 3 classes have been very good if not great. We should legitimately win 8-9 games minimum this fall, have a huge class next year and still be young on the field in 20. If we are still having these issues in 2 years I will change my opinion otherwise everybody should chill out.

This class (save a huge turnaround) is going to be underwhelming in terms of ranking and perception. We are 6 months out, but we are not even on the radar for many guys that would provide a big bump in our rankings.

More worrisome is the fact that we have major gaps in our Roster at DL and CB and haven't signed anyone to fill them. The Roster Management component isn't being managed effectively and our Staff (other than Vice) have not demonstrated any consistent ability to close on Recruits at high-need positions.

None of this is good, no matter how positive your outlook is.

Are you serious ? Signed no one to fill them ? How about DT 2 Jucos 3 freshman 1 converted OL to DL and 2 preferred walkons just last year . Also add Juco DE last year after recruiting heavy DE the first 2 years . 2018 signed Thompson ,Chatman , Webb ,Crossen and Waller you can add Walker and Murray from last year all CB recruits or secondary guys . I mean at least wait till they take the field to see if they work out .

Coastal 1

They're not 4* or 5* DL guys so they don't count.

/s

The fact that you're having to sign MULTIPLE JUCO's to fill out your DL is point-in-hand that you are not recruiting well.

Yes, many SEC teams sign JUCOs as well, but its primarily to build depth....we are counting on our signees to start and need them to be impact players.

Also, watch some game tape from last year....our DL got ZERO consistent QB pressure; we have a long way to go to rebuild at DL.

"We're young again (for the nth straight year in a row)" was the refrain of UVA under Al Groh. I think Fuente eventually turns it around, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't worry me at a program level when that's happening.

Is there anyway I can delete forum topics? I'm getting awfully tired of reading bad news and I'd just as soon not being reminded of it every time I get on TKP, which seems to be every 30 minutes or so, while waiting on KBJ news.

Click bait titles! "5-Star QB commits!"

"...to another school"

We put the K in Kwality

We don't have to wait on KBJ anymore. :(

Hopefully they can turn it around, but this is the worst VT recruiting class up to this point that I've seen since I've followed recruiting, which goes back to Bucky Hodges being our prize QB.

What makes this more damning is that recruits can already take official visits and there's an early signing day.

This may not be related to our defensive recruiting let downs, but Bud either needs to sign his extension or just announce he's retiring after this year.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

I just wanna start playing some damn football.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

Ain't gonna look great with our recruiting

Hot take here but stick with me. 2020 recruits aren't eligible to play this season.

(add if applicable) /s

Lol, I just meant overall

Hello darkness my old friend...lol

Reach for Excellence!

VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

Another big miss on the DL. Very frustrating. I guess we could still flip the kid, but I doubt it.

And Blackshear :(

Let's Go...

Shitburgers

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

I have a feeling none of these comments will age well...

can your feeling join the coaching staff?

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

The blind optimism or the sky is falling?

Recruit Prosim

I am trying my best to be optimistic.

oh well...

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

If nothing else...we can focus on VTFootballGrad's tomato watering system as a distraction for now. TKP offers a silver lining on a day with bad news.

JP

When recruiting gives you lemons, grow tomatoes.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Not if your float valve doesn't work

I'll never understand why people go ballistic over 18 not choosing Virginia Tech when and go to schools like UF, Bama, FSU, etc. If you were a parent, which school would you want your son to go to for a future in football if they had the chance...I know my pick.

Always choose joy.

The choice is clear!

DBU!

Let's Go

HOKIES

So listed at 6-2 215,,, commits to us and as has been the norm shows up at 6-1 210 and he plays where? Would have been nice but Clelin Ferrell he ain't. Just sayin

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

You're looking at his old numbers. It can be confusing because there are often conflicting listings on 247 profiles, but his more recent numbers are 6-3 234lbs. Lots of camps provide numbers because they weigh and measure them at the camp.

That said, you're really grasping at straws with this reasoning. Regardless, Clelin Ferrell was listed as 6-5 225 coming out of high school, and his NFL combine numbers were 6-4 264 lbs. He started playing as a R-Fr. at Clemson and he played between 260 and 270 lbs in college, so it must not have taken Clemson too long to put 30-40 lbs on him anyway.

Fair enough. It will be interesting to see where he is as a RS So... I just don't see the frame to carry 250+ and I'm dubious on the current 234 listing.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Yeah and we would have kept Ferrell at 245

I'm not so sure this is true. When we had guys with bigger frames who had room to grow like Ellis, Burchette, Worilds, Gayle, JR Collins, Ken Ekanem, and Orion Martin, for a few examples, we let all those guys play over 250, several of them over 260. The problem is we too infrequently had guys with the height, frame, and athleticism to play fast over 250lbs.

Absolutely marginally. Gayle had the biggest frame out of that group right? He didn't even crack 260 at the combine. Highly doubt he was playing over 260. Most of that group played right at 250. Ferrell probably would have played around 250, but we would 100% not have let him get to his Clemson/NFL weight.

I'm not so sure we have held weight off of players on purpose. I seem to remember the staff working pretty hard to add weight to Dadi and others.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

Do they cancel the recruit nights if they don't have any recruits to talk about?

Has anyone compiled a list of the remaining targets for this recruiting cycle? That would be nice if someone has the time.

The state of this recruiting class is unnerving.

Lakeem, Lambert, and obviously Feaster are the ones that come to mind. I don't think we get lambert. And I think Feaster is a coin toss for now.

Recruit Prosim

I'm puzzled by what's happening with recruiting this year. Im hearing a lot of people say it's because of how last season went, but it wasn't that long ago that we were all excited about how we flipped Nester and landed a pretty strong all around recruiting class for 2019, and most of that happened after the 6-7 season that we had. Any educated guesses as to what's changed from then to now and how we ended up with the 85th ranked class (at least for now)?

NBA. Give it a year

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Can anyone point me to the meaning of this? I know it stemmed out of a team meeting at the end of the year, but other than that completely out of the loop.

General belief is that it is "no bitches allowed"

Recruit Prosim

That's what I was guessing, but didn't know if there was more to it. Thanks!

We are officially a farm team for Florida.

Oh no, how will FSU or Penn St take this news? It's almost like you don't shoot a buck against the big boys.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Does anyone else think that because Foster doesn't have a contract beyond this year that it is hurting us on the recruiting trail?

yes. but it's more than just the lack of contract. once you get the stink of retirement on you, it's a problem. and if you're a coach who's recruiting kids that you may not coach for 4 years, how invested in them are you?

Other than presumably having the money available to retire (depending on divorce results), isn't Bud actually about 4-5 years too young to actually be retirement age? I hope they resolve his contract quickly.

I think Bud plans to coach for a few more years. I have zero clue the nature of his divorce, but I imagine he would want to make a few more years of College Football P5 salary to help recover from it.

I'm not so sure he planned to coach all that much longer. I think the succession plan was tanked when Galen couldn't keep it in his pantaloons... which precluded a whole chain of events that haven't helped the program one bit.

Edit: C'mon... there have to be some jokes about Galen screwing the program here.