Buzz Williams and Texas A&M, No Plan B (Thread Part II)

Brent Zwerneman of the Houston Chronicle published an update on Texas A&M's coaching search and there's plenty of confidence the Aggies will land their man.

Once Williams, 46, is done with his season at Virginia Tech β€” and the Hokies are built to win at least a couple of games in the postseason β€” he's expected to pack bags and load up his family for College Station.

"The wide expectation among college basketball insiders is that Williams will be the next coach at Texas A&M," national college basketball columnist Seth Davis recently opined. "... If Williams turns this down, a lot of folks around the sport will be quite surprised."

I haven't heard of a Plan B in case Plan Buzz falls through β€” that's how confident A&M appears it will get its guy.

Why Buzz Williams remains a favorite at Texas A&M

Comments

Lets Go!

HOKIES!!.

Buzz, if you stay you can have both of my Smithfield bacon coupons from the night we trounced Duke.

85-A502-D5-8-F67-45-B5-A5-A0-497-C66-FB926-E

Tyrod did it Mikey, Tyrod did it!!

I won't blame him. But I'd love for him to focus on Friday. I hope he is focusing on Friday.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Buzz is a pro. He is focused.

I hope the 18-22 year old kids who came here to play for Buzz can focus

EDIT: Guess I should have kept reading. Below

The Dude Abides

I'm more worried about our players. Buzz is a grown ass man who (probably) already knows what's next. How about our 18-22 year old roster that has no idea what life entails for them next.

The best part of Buzz is the strong relationship with his players... how does that work this weekend? Will they be able to compartmentalize?

If I were Blackshear or the Freshmen - im not sure how I would do with such strong competing emotions...

3 seniors, 1 NBA draft enrollee, and KB will be fine. There is more uncertainty now, but there was going to be a clear goal this post season.

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"The wide expectation among college basketball insiders is that Williams will be the next coach at Texas A&M," national college basketball columnist Seth Davis recently opined. "... If Williams turns this down, a lot of folks around the sport will be quite surprised."

Hopefully that's not true.

At the same time, the "wide expectation among college basketball insiders" is that a coach wouldn't leave a Big East powerhouse for the worst program in the ACC. Buzz doesn't care about what anyone else thinks, he's not normal.

A lot of people keeps harping on money but I earnestly believe excessive money isn't important to Buzz. I keep referring back to this quote from a Washington Post article in 2015:

His Virginia Tech contract pays him $2.3 million per year, but because he once associated money with success, his family lives off $500,000; the rest goes toward savings, donations or insurance. In fact, Williams allows himself $54 per day, funneled at the beginning of each month into an account labeled "Daddy's Money"; during the final days of each month, the employees at Joe's Diner, his favorite breakfast joint, are no longer surprised when his debit card is declined.

Buzz has an opportunity to become the basketball version of Frank Beamer. He could easily stay here for the next 20 years, create his own culture, compete against the best coaches in the country (when K, Williams and Boeheim retire, those three programs will only attract the most elite coaches) work under one of the best ADs in the country, raise his family in an idyllic college town and not worry about getting fired after a sub .500 season.

Bill Kennedy held the A&M job for seven seasons with a conference championship and two sweet sixteens on his resume- he still got fired. Culture doesn't matter to their fanbase, only winning (you can tell by the reaction to Kennedy's firing, lots of "Kennedy is a good man, but..."). Does Buzz really want to enter into such a cutthroat environment and minimize the mentorship element of coaching that he clearly loves? The price of success is expectation, if he signs a 5+ million contract, their fanbase is going to expect A&M to compete with Kentucky, Tennessee, Flordia etc. year in and year out.

I'm really hoping he stays but I actually believe it's not as cut and dry as everyone makes it out to be.

It sounds like there are too many legitimate reports saying it's a done deal to be skeptical. Hopefully the VT players can tune out the noise during the NCAA tournament, but they are going to hear it.

I don't know if Marquette was exactly a national powerhouse under Buzz, but I pretty much agree with everything you said. I don't think A&M is a great move for Williams, even though I think he'll win because he's just that good of a coach.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Well, he took them to the Sweet 16 three years in a row, elite 8 once, and a had them ranked in that AP top 10 several times. Perhaps "powerhouse" is too strong a term, and perhaps he was just continuing the success that had already been established by Deane and Crean in the previous decade ... but let's not discount what he did.

their fanbase is going to expect A&M to compete with Kentucky, Tennessee, Flordia etc. year in and year out.

If Buzz were staying, I would expect VT to compete with UNC, Duke, and UVA year in and out. I would still expect a top ACC team next year with the development from Bede and Blackshear and the unveiling of Nolley.

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If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

In fact, Williams allows himself $54 per day, funneled at the beginning of each month into an account labeled "Daddy's Money"; during the final days of each month, the employees at Joe's Diner, his favorite breakfast joint, are no longer surprised when his debit card is declined.

I bet if everyone here chipped in a dollar, we could give him a raise to 75 bucks per day. Throw in a couple gift cards to Joe's, and it's a done deal, right?

We don't want to make him soft.

This had 25 leg, it hurt a little to change it but it's too good of a take not to give it a leg

The $54 per day is one thing, but it always makes me laugh a little when people laud his family living off $500K in Blacksburg. That's king status.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

They want him to have wimpy grandkids.

Seriously, for crying out loud 500k is a lot of money in NOVA. In Blacksburg that kind of money isn't made by anyone that isn't a sports coach.

Some one could be cooking that much meth. You dont know what happens in them there hills.

I think the money narrative is get spun a lot of different ways. The reason I think people are raising the comp aspect is just to highlight that it's not the primary motivator in Buzz's life at this moment, which means that certain other aspects of his decision may carry more weight than you might expect in other coach's decisions.

It also might mean heading home may carry the day. Personally I think Buzz might stay, wait for one or a couple of the 3 elite ACC jobs to open up, further his legacy at one of those 3 years from now, and then move back home and coach wherever he wants with a pile of cash that's been compounding the whole time.

Everyone understands $500k goes a long way in Blacksburg, no one is saying that he isn't living well given his situation.

@hokie_rd

If Buzz leaves its gonna be tough for me to #QuitCussin

I followed Bill Self's progression from Oral Roberts to Tulsa to Illinois and finally Kansas.

To me, Self was always a builder (Like Buzz). I remember when he got his "Dream Job" at KU and leaving Illinois (the Illini team went to the National Championship Game the next year with Self's roster!).

I always wondered if the money and pressure was worth it. I remember his joy and passion before the expectations, alumni and "One and Dones" became a necessity to continue to compete. The coach I see today on the KU sideline is not the same person.

If It goes as it currently seems and Buzz moves on, I hope he can continue to keep his joy and passion! He may be a great coach, but I wonder how he'll deal with the politics and pressure of a place who hired Jimbo Fisher.

Buzz will be expected to provide "Blue Blood" results quickly at a football school... I really doubt that the alumni and fan base will really give a shit about Emotional intelligence or teaching players about handling $$$ if they take 3+ years to rebuild. "When much is given, much is expected".

Buzz could coach anywhere, anytime, under any microscope. The guy is a different cat.

The Dude Abides

The school might lose a Buzz, but I will be keeping one for several days.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

I keep coming back to his current relationship with local Southwest VA media who don't push him at all and how he always acts like they're the enemy. Bad news Buzz. Texas A&M has the pettiest, leakiest media (and boosters) in the country.

But hey, I'm happy he will have family close by. I'm sure it will work out.

He doesn't have that long left to coach. He's mentioned several times that he "can't do this forever" or "can't keep at this pace forever". My guess is he coaches about 5 more years and then retires with a large ranch in Texas.

I could see him being a motivational speaker and writing books..

Hell, all he would have to do is go copy and paste all of his tweets. Boom - motivational speech/book written.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Just to really illuminate what Buzz has done:

UVa:

08-09: 10-18
09-10: 15-16 (Bennett's first year)
10-11: 16-15
11-12: 22-10 (NCAA first round)
12-13: 23-12 (NIT QFs)
13-14: 30-7 (NCAA Sweet 16)

VT:

13-14: 9-22
14-15: 11-22 (Buzz's first year)
15-16: 20-15 (NIT second round)
16-17: 22-11 (NCAA first round)
17-18: 21-12 (NCAA first round)
18-19: 24-8 (TBD)

Which one is more impressive?

Well ... it's hard to argue with Bennett's 30 wins in his 5th season. That said, if Buzz can get to 30 wins this season I think he will clearly have the better resume.

Uh...seriously? It's Bennett lol. 30 wins and sweet 16 is more impressive.

Actually, that's what I thought he meant. On looking back, he thought Buzz? If think Buzz is great, but if he wants my vote, he has to stick around longer and get VT to a number one seed in the NCAA tournament.

lol

I think he's arguing that, at least according to these numbers, he's on the same path as Bennett. If we reach the sweet 16 this year, then year 6 for both of them is oddly similar and Buzz did it without the teams MVP for the second half of the season.

15 Straight

Then he should stay on the path Bennett took, and get VT to the number one seed.

I'd suggest that the second part is a lot harder than the first part.

Bennett also went 16-2 in the ACC that fifth year, won the ACC regular season and UVA's 2nd ever ACC Tournament. It was an epic year.

But if Buzz gets to 30, he wins. Six more wins fills that empty trophy case.

β€œYou got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

I don't know what kind of attrition Bennett had to deal with during that season, but I'm guessing not much.

Buzz was down two front court / wing players for the year and our star PG for half the conference season. Easy to project our team picking up a few more wins with those guys on the roster.

Buzz started lower and raised it up.

What is missing here is #1 overall seed, #1 seed. That is damn impressive from UVA TBH

The Dude Abides

You know what's more impressive?

A bunch of good bois from Maryland beating the #1 overall seed.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

Hypocritically contrary to my perspective on Buzz, I think Tony Bennett should definitely take the money and run to UCLA.

Am I reading it wrong, or does it say that if he terminates after March 23, 2019 (three days from now) and before March 23, 2020, isn't it $500K?

Edit: On quick glance, I couldn't tell if this part was amended or not, but it appeared not. Was almost as if it was originally written to give Buzz an out after a prescribed period of time.

You are correct. Changed.

If he wins the NCAA tournament, he'll get 150K of it back...

Interesting. That would not be much of a deterrent for a school with deep pockets which would describe any school that would be coming after him.

No, not at all.

But Whit wanted him enough to let him write his own contract. I'd say that even with all considered right now, it was still the right call for VT.

Buzz always had it set up to be so low that it wouldn't be a deterrent. He wanted the flexibility to head out whenever he desired and didn't want to be tied down to a single job.

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

Legal language is dumb, but it's actually $2M before March 23 of 2019, $1.25M before March 23 of 2020. You gotta add up each infraction.

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Do you understand or are you confused? lol, that graphic is ambiguous, but a great show.

The contract has the following stipulations:
1. If Buzz leaves before Mar. 23 2019, he must pay $750K
2. If Buzz leaves before Mar. 23 2020, he must pay $500K
3. If Buzz leaves before Mar. 23 2021, he must pay $500K
4. If Buzz leaves before Mar. 23 2022, he must pay $250K

If Buzz left today, he violates 1 - 4 and thus would have to pay $750K + $500K + $500K + $250K = $2M

If he leaves before Mar. 23 2022, he violates 2 - 4 and thus would have to pay $500K + $500K + $250K = $1.25M

It's a typical way of writing contracts.

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Haha I understand.

Damn, I sure didn't.

Glad we have someone here who can read it.

f Buzz left today, he violates 1 - 4 and thus would have to pay $750K + $500K + $500K + $250K = $2M

Chump change to TAMU backers!

Hope hey don't crash!

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

Interesting.

Looks like they wrote Fuente's contract differently:

1. If Fuente terminates prior to December 15, 2016, Fuente will pay
University $7,000,000.00;

2. If Fuente terminates on or after December 15, 2016, and prior to
December 15, 2017, Fuente will pay University-$6,000,000.00;

3. If Fuente terminates on or after December 15, 2017, and prior to
December 15, 20Β·1 a, Fuente will pay University $5,000,000.00;

4. If Fuente terminates on or after December 15, 2018, and prior to
December 15, 2019, Fuente will pay University $3,000,000.00;

5. If Fuente terminates on or after December 15, 2019, and prior to
December 15, 2020, Fuente will pay University $1,000,000.00; or

6. Fuente will owe no stipulated damages if he terminates after on or
after December 15, 2020.

I wonder if they did that for clarity.

tbh, it's probably just different lawyers. Fuente's agent/lawyer vs. Buzz's lawyer.

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Buzz is his own agent, writes and negotiates his own contracts.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

He most likely still retains a lawyer. I'm sure Buzz is probably pretty fluent in contract language, but when someone writes a contract, typically a lawyer does the heavy drafting, approved line by line by the author/client.

The difference is he doesn't have an agent, so Buzz himself actually has to thoroughly understand the terms.

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I would advise anyone dealing with contracts to retain a lawyer. We have multiple lawyers for our business for different purposes.

When punctuation can change the terms of your agreement, I'd bring in an experienced professional.

Sure but his lawyer doesn't change his terms just advises him and makes sure it meets legal standards.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

True. But his lawyer should work toward unambiguous language. Though Chazz does point out the clause in Buzz's contract is typical the clause in Fuente's is clearly unambiguous as to the mutual exclusivity of the time frames.

As a side note, I find it weird that a contract from an institution to an individual would be drawn up by the individual's lawyers. I would expect VT to have their lawyers draw up contracts so that they are more standard.

Meh, the lawyer is a hefty fee, and with it being a public university, I'm fine with the person receiving MILLIONS of dollars burdening the cost of the lawyer to draw up the contract.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

There definitely VT lawyers involved in this.

imo, the buzz one is straightforward and the Fuente is a more long winded, repetitive way to reach the same result (although you're right Fuente's terms are easier to read if you're not used to the legal language)

In terms of who provides the initial draft depends on the parties and who volunteers. It is typical that most institutions hiring employees have a fairly consistent contract that they'll use for most employees. Its different for high-end employees who have leverage. VT wants Fuente and Buzz, so VT probably allows them to provide the starting document if that is their desire.

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So you're saying standard contracts are for us little people? ;-)

yes. client/author or agent with authority dictates terms. Lawyer drafts in appropriate legal language. I'm pretty aware of the lawyer-client relationship.πŸ˜‰

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I love you guys. Y'all are unwavering optimists in the face of almost certain let down.

Recruit Prosim

I think some of us just spend more time in the bargaining phase while others spend more time in the anger phase.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I'm currently in the sick to my stomach phase from the combination of this apparent inevitability and the fact we have a legit chance to make a run in this tourney.

Vols Fans are more delusional than LOLUVA

Hokie in Tennessee

I feel like this being a supposed done deal means he is staying. He marches to the beat of his own drum...

Yeah, he shouldn't let the media in College Station push him around.

Soooo we still know nothing? Lemme know when that flight tracker starts spitting out data points, this yarn on my corkboard isn't going to connect itself

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Flight from Roanoke to San Jose this morning! We're fucked!

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

those sharks!

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Looks like buzz is flying to DC this week...

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

So this means he's the next coach of Georgetown?

Shit he's going to coach the Wizards

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

Clearly he is going to coach the Nationals

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Sauces are he's going to Capital One Arena. My guess is he's coaching the Capitals.

(add if applicable) /s

Don't you joke about that....."Buzz on Ice" would be a combination of some of my most favorite things

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

See it's just a red herring. He is having the Nats front office staff meet him at Capital One Arena to throw people off the scent

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

#Sauces... I've heard TA&M is offering around $5.2mil and Whit is eyeing Mick Cronin from Cinci.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I really want to downvote this...but I know I shouldn't.

804

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I hate aTm. After this, I want us to pound the living $h!t out of them in everything we face them in.

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

Mick Cronin has what 9 straight tourney appearances. Seems like that would be a good hire.

Ugh but he's a red angry little elf who quite frankly doesn't have a good style of play. Kelvin Sampson, Or Gregg Marshall if anyone from the American. Given a choice give me Chris Beard, Buffalo's guy, Wojo (lol), or if you want to take a chance, Wes Miller.

No to Kelvin Sampson. He's a program killer.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

He's most likely being hired at Wake Forest to officially destroy them forever

UPDATE - Wake Forest not ready to part ways with Danny Manning yet. Buyout + competing with crazy ass Tilman Fertitta has the Wake donors going all alligator arms!

How so he's had success everywhere he's been. Probably an unrealistic option but he'd be good

Oklahoma and Indiana are doing great since he's been gone right?!

He did well at both of those stops

I think he got run out of IU for recruiting violations.

He racked up a bunch of recruiting violations at both and left both places worse than when he got their.

Exactly. Something something history repeating itself...

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

If you squint, he kind of looks like Buzz

If you squint a little harder, everything goes black, and you can pretend like none of this is happening....

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

My first plaid.... an omen I'm sure for tomorrow's outcome.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Let's hire him and send him to Texas A&M. Maybe they won't notice.

IMO Mick Cronin would be the best realistic hire to keep our basketball program chugging along nicely. Nate Oats would also be great, but he is more of an up and comer compared to Cronin's proven success.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

I agree he's probably a better fit culturally and would probably be engaging with the fans like Buzz has been, but I think Cronin will immediately make us a tournament mainstay with a chance to go deep every few years.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

Cronin will take us there but we'll be an easy out every year. He doesn't win in big tournaments, in fact his record is JT3 esque.

+1 for Oats please

I'd much rather have Oats too.

Cronin has the track record of success, but I'm not a huge fan of his sideline demeanor. Dude can become a raving lunatic on the bench.

I know that shouldn't be a huge factor, but he has a lot of Pat Narduzzi in him.

Yep, Cronin is a solid to great choice. Keeps the momentum going that Buzz built. Probably brings in some of his type of players.

Cronin's teams are tough. He's a bit more like Seth Greenberg in that way. When we joined the ACC, nobody wanted to face us because we left lots of bruises. I could see us doing something similar. It won't be the beautiful basketball that Buzz liked but it may be more in touch with our lunch pail ethos.

Somebody's gotta be the villain. Might as well be the Hokies from the smokies wearing the black hat

Recruit Prosim

#sauces or just pulling info from behind paywall on 247?

I know there are a few people on here with legit connections, but most people on this board that have "sauces" are just attention seekers who pay for 247.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

what's 247?

Personal connection, but again, it's just rumor mill/word of mouth at this point, no tactile proof, but thought I'd forward along what I've heard since I didn't see it mentioned anywhere.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I am sure Whit is, but Mick is a born and raised Cincy West-Sider. Those folks have deep roots here and are notorious for moving away from where they grew up to down the block. Mick is a low ceiling but high floor kind of coach, but I don't see him as a long term solution. Mick also has very little competition in town now that Mack is at Louisville, but he may also feel like he got overshadowed by his rival getting a big offer and may want to prove to everyone that he is just as deserving. Cincy-Louisville is still a bitter basketball rivalry.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

Great insight. A cursory look at his Wikipedia page says to me that he's already at his dream job, and he makes over $2m. He went to Cincinnati and just got the university to go through with a $87m renovation to its arena. Not sure I see this happening either.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Let's take a look at that wikipedia entry.

Cronin served as the head men's basketball coach at Murray State University from 2003 to 2006.

Done deal.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

was just getting ready to post that

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

It all makes so much sense now.

He's also knows Whit from Whit's days as Cinci AD

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Murray State's coaching lineage is pretty impressive.

Mark Gottfried
Mick Cronin
Billy Kennedy
Steve Prohm
now Matt McMahon

I've personally got Prohm just ahead of Cronin but I would be really happy with either.

If that's the case, I would love more Louisville games. Those Chris Mack/Mick Cronin games were wild.

Cincy folks here say Cronin turned down UCLA a while back. I'd be surprised if he heads to Blacksburg.

Cronin would be a solid get. He's on my wishlist. His teams are always competitive and tournament threats, even in years where you expect they might not be. I've seen some Cincy fans that are starting to get down on him because he "underdelivers in the tournament" as if they're suppose to be winning the thing with Duke, UNC, etc. I mean, come on. It's Cincy. Just because you're a basketball focused school doesn't mean you're winning the natty. Gotta have realistic expectations. One of other positives of getting Cronin would be I wouldn't expect much of a drop off. He's got enough clout as HC that could maintain the recruits and players we have and/or bring in good ones with him. If you hire newbie coach from a mid-major, that probably wouldn't be the case and it would probably take a couple of years to rebuild.

FWIW, my list is
1) Gregg Marshall. (My improbable dream scenario. Years ago, Buzz Williams was my improbable dream scenario. Lightning can strike twice, right?)
2) Mick Cronin
3) Nate Oats (Him and Cronin could be flipped. I see them equally for the most part. Just giving a slight edge because I think Cronin would keep us competitive immediately)
4) Thad Matta. (A little concerned with how he underwhelmed there towards the end at Ohio State but I think most of that was a case of a relationship just reaching its end point. A change of scenery was needed for both)
5) Chris Collins. (I like him as a coach. He's gotten Northwestern to be competitive and a tournament team despite their academic hurdles. That takes skills. Downside is you gotta think he's leave for Duke when K retires if offered)

Collins isn't leaving NW (unless it was for Duke), he's a Chicago native.

Only one that would drop from your list is Matta. Maybe he has recharged his batteries at this point but I for one don't want to be the experiment to find out. He also struggled his last four years or so to retain quality assistant coaches that could recruit.

For Matta, there were some health issues.

I've read on 247 (not behind the paywall) that he's healthy and interested in coaching again.

FWIW, Cronin also has had some health issues, which caused him to miss time in 2014-2015 and there's some rumblings that he may be having some health issues again and/or may be ready to move on from Cinci. Of course, other people say he's a lifer, that's his alma mater and they've just invested a bunch of $$ into UC Basketball so really who knows anything.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

I don't know much of the detail, but why aren't we talking about Kelvin Sampson at Houston? Seems like he's done a pretty solid job in the AAC.

β€œIn order to conquer an animal, I have to think like an animal, and whenever possible, look like one.”
β€” Carl Spackler

He was tied to a bunch of recruiting violations and received a show cause from the NCAA. Personally I have no interest in VT being associated with that and would rather take the risk of a mid major up and comer.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Thanks!

β€œIn order to conquer an animal, I have to think like an animal, and whenever possible, look like one.”
β€” Carl Spackler

"A bunch" is being polite.
a 100' pole wouldn't be enough. I'd prefer he stay out of the timezone.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

So are you trying to say youwouldnt touch him with a 39 and a half foot pole?

did he edit it?

Who? Mine was a Grinch who stole Christmas reference. The original looks the same too.

Neither of us did. I added a zero. He made a Grinch reference. We both laughed. Good times.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

He was tied to a bunch of recruiting violations and received a show cause from the NCAA.

Funny thing about that... the violations that got him that show cause are no longer violations. Impermissible recruiting phone calls - that's what got him a show cause after he'd already been caught doing it at Oklahoma. And now it's not something that can't get you in trouble.

It's not like he was ever accused of paying for players, or creating fake classes, or hiring prostitutes.

He just made too many phone calls to recruits. In terms of a sliding scale here, Sampson has never been tied to anything worse than that, but because the NCAA is a backwards organization and hasn't been able to keep up with the times, he's a pariah to casual observers of college basketball.

Funny thing, several years ago possession of weed in several states would get you locked up, but now, it's not illegal. Doesn't forgive breaking the rules when it was against the rules. He broke them, knowing the rules. Repeatedly.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Doesn't forgive breaking the rules when it was against the rules.

California did. Thousands of prisoners were release for nonviolent crimes, many of which involved marijuana illegalities.

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Neither of Sampson's schools were in Cali, and the NCAA isn't Cali, so...

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I was referring to your analogy and how once a nonviolent crime involving marijuana occurs, there is no forgiveness even when laws changes. I'm just suggesting the marijuana analogy doesn't work.

I also don't see how Sampson, his schools, and NCAA have to do with California, as if California is the only opportunity to forgive wrongs.

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

He broke the rules. He was caught breaking the rules.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

California released those as time served, not as exonerated of crimes. Their crimes weren't forgiven, the punishment was simply cut short.

yea, but when we voted to make this a reality, the idea that many of these nonviolent crimes aren't even criminalized anymore was a pertinent issue.

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

Absolutely. And it saves money and time going forward. If the court isn't filled with these kinds of cases, and the prisons aren't filled with these kinds of cases, it makes more room and time for cases that actually matter.

The logic in this analogy is highly flawed.

the hot rumor is Danny Manning will be out at Wake Forest and Sampson is the top target

He's bald so it checks out

"They'd rather win football games, you'd rather be sophisticated. Go like baseball loser."
-Colin Cowherd

#ALLMAROONEVERYTHING

Cronin has turned a big halftime lead into a tournament loss two years in a row now so uhhhhh.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Hopefully this Calipari thing happens and Buzz can tell TAMU he has had a few calls from UK and leverage a bigger chunk of change from TAMU. If he goes I want it to get the farm from wherever he ends up.

Come to Blacksburg and see what the Hokie Pokie is really all about

"It's just business, it isn't personal", seems to be the gist of both threads. Well, to me, it is personal. For now over 50 years I have been personally invested in the Hokies, and my VT friends of old ARE my family. Buzz isn't a part of that family unless he decides to be, and that's TBD. And I know, it's a job he can be fired from, and that's a big distinction when talking "family" so I know it's complicated. But if he goes after only 4 years, his time with us is nothing more than a vignette in that 50+ years. Yeah, a good one, an interesting one, an important one, no doubt, but just that...a vignette. I will be disappointed, very disappointed even, but not angry at Buzz. I would love to continue to welcome him with open arms, and would love it if he truly wanted to be a long term part of our family, but for him, it's just a job at this point. It is a shame that his now way too public courtship with TAMU had to color our dance this year, and make no mistake about it, it is coloring this dance for a lot of us. I don't blame Buzz for that, it's just business, right? But personally, that doesn't make me feel any better about it all. Sigh.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

This is not fair to Buzz at all. Being "personally invested" in VT sports takes a hell of a lot less effort than what Buzz has done over the past 5 years for our basketball program and his players. The expectation for every good coach we hire to be like Beamer and hang around for 30 years is completely delusional. If VT fans want to hold on to top tier coaches then we better start donating until we have a top tier budget.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

Wrong.

Yeah, we can't expect every coach to hang around for 29 years, but we can want a coach who is still progressing with the program to keep on progressing with it.

Look around at the landscape of college sports. Coaches as successful as Buzz almost always leave for greener pastures. Sure, I wish Buzz would hang around a few more years, but this opportunity is about as good as it gets.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

Where is the greener pasture than the ACC?

Texas A&M may well be the killer app for Buzz, but VT is a great place for him.

The last few years was proof of concept for both Buzz AND VT, and both passed muster. Now it has been proven TWICE at VT, by both Williams AND Greenberg.

If Buzz does move on, I'm hoping we get as good a coach as a replacement: someone who can recruit and coach. I'd prefer if they'd stick around past the "building a good foundation" stage.

I don't know if you noticed, but the SEC is currently the second best conference in college basketball. It's not like he's jumping to a mid major. They are practically doubling his salary and giving him an insane amount of resources to coach in the state he grew up in where he has a ton of professional connections. He could have Texas A&M dominating that conference in short order and regularly securing #1/2 seeds in the dance. That sort of potential is not something VT has at the moment.

I understand people being upset (I'm very sad about it too), but saying that it's personal and that Buzz is not part of the VT family is just ludicrous. Imagine if you took 100% pay raise for a job in your home state that seemed like a fun new challenge, and people were shitting on you for not staying at your old job.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

Woah, I didn't say it was personal, or that "Buzz isn't part of the VT family". That's some serious fighting words.

But FUCK the SEC in basketball, and Texas A&M and their big dollars don't impress me much.

But if he leaves now, he left the job half undone, and that's going to hurt.

I was referring to the original comment that I was replying to. I said that take was unfair to Buzz and you replied with "wrong."

Edit: The SEC is a good basketball conference now. They have some great coaches and pull in some the best athletes in the country.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

The overall comment, implying that Buzz is more committed to our program than lifelong fans was the part I thought was WRONG.

And the SEC is going to have to prove they're the best basketball conference in order to get that title. I've never seen so much love for SEC basketball as I've seen in these comments in the past few days.

I love Buzz, and I'd love him to stay, but staying here 5 years and leaving would cement his role in the history of our program, not it's future.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Buzz works pretty much every waking second of every day to make VT basketball better and it shows. What do we do? Watch the games on TV, go to a few of them, maybe donate, and then complain on forums?

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

complaining is hard work when you try to mask it in a funny, sarcastic way....

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Buzz does work hard.

But if he leaves at the first opportunity, was it for VT, or for himself? Maybe it's not a very fair question, but it's also not fair to question the motives of the fanbase, many of whom contribute in a variety of ways.

I'm glad Buzz came to VT, and we've benefited from his contribution. But if he leaves now, I'll be disappointed. And yes, the people who are fans every day of their lives are contributing to our community, each in their own way.

I don't think I was unfair at all, nor do I think that Buzz is being unfair to VT at all, or to me personally, at all. I just wanted to say that I am personally very disappointed. I'm disappointed not because I feel entitled to his loyalty, but because I really like him and hate to see him go so soon. As for who's done more for the our basketball program, well how could I not say that Buzz has? While I've probably been to as many VT basketball games as he has, he's also been paid millions of dollars to do so, so there's that. I also do not expect all of our coaches to stick around 29 years or until fired. I was merely lamenting how this playing out before the tournament was making me feel.
After all, all I have is my personal feelings and opinions and they don't mean shit to anyone but me, I'm sure.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

We should have gone to the SEC when we had the chance lol

Yeah, who knew it was for basketball?

Unfortunately with 15 teams for hoops the "ACC" while still the most competitive league, doesn't have the appeal it did when it was "tobacco row" and 8 teams. You get excited about a Pitt BC game in January? Does ND Syracuse have an "ACC feel" to you? or a Big East feel? I wish the ACC had the cache it once did with coaches.

wait.... is it Tobacco Row? I grew up my whole life thinking it was called Tobacco Road...

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Lefty always called it "row" , I thought? .. maybe I've had it wrong, but I swore it was "row"

Not sure about that one...
He had a draw to him, as seen in this quote:
"Well, Ah thought Ah'd bolt the trophy to the hood of mah car and drive around North Carolina for the weekend,"

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

It is Tobacco Road

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

Yeah, it's definitely Tobacco Road.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Where is the greener pasture than the ACC?

Maybe greener pasture isn't the right term...
But no matter what you do in basketball in the ACC you will NEVER be UNC or Duke. EVER.
NCState and Maryland have won national titles while members, and were the lil brothers. Wake and Georgia Tech had some solid runs, but don't have the big boy status. Even loluva over the years has popped it's weasley head out of the ground, but no respect.

Since 1997, only 5 times has a team not named Duke or UNC won the ACC tournament. 10 times since 1986.

In the $EC, who could be argued is the second best conference in the country, there's only one big dog. And the others who come up are regarded a lot better than the ACC risers. (Not in a head-to-head comparison, but in respect and talking points.) There's more room for respect and success in the SEC.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Thank you for explaining this much better than I could. A good A&M with Buzz at the helm will not be overshadowed in the SEC like we always will be in the ACC. Also I think his path to getting a high seed in the tourney is easier in the SEC, and winning in the tourney is ultimately what builds your legacy as a coach.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

Don't look now, but VT is a number 4 seed THIS YEAR, without changing teams, and the ACC has THREE number one seeds.

But no matter what you do in basketball in the ACC you will NEVER be UNC or Duke. EVER.

And the SEC will never be the ACC in basketball. EVER.

As for UVa, they're the number one seed in the NCAA tournament. That's not nothing. And Maryland is now the little brother in the Big 10, with no more respect in basketball than they ever got in the ACC, and with even lower prospects in football.

I like Buzz's prospects in the ACC, and I'd like to see him realize his full potential at VT. The ceiling is much higher still. But it's truly his call.

Do you want to be the third best in the best conference, or win the second best conference and have better success in the tournament? ACC is comfortable as a whole. SEC has more ability to stand out, alone.

(loluva isn't the #1 seed this year. A #1, but not THE #1.)

And Maryland left because $$$. They were never going to be top dog in the ACC, even after winning a National Title. They have a lot of issues internally that would still be there had they stayed, but they are their own thing...and didn't go to the SEC so it's not really a comparison.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Maryland did leave because of the $$$. And now we're talking about Buzz leaving because of the $$$, among other reasons.

When Buzz came to VT, he said it was to play with the best. The best didn't intimidate him. He had a path to the NCAA tournament in the Big East.

Just sayin'.

Now that he's played with the best, he's ready to get paid and play with the rest.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Leg for syncopation and rhyming.

My dad always told me it's better to be in the worst house in a great neighborhood, then to be in the best house house in a so-so neighborhood.

So... there's that.

Leonard. Duh.

And the others who come up are regarded a lot better than the ACC risers. (Not in a head-to-head comparison, but in respect and talking points.)

Hmm, so Tx A&M,Tenn, Miss St, Mizzou, etc are regarded better than ACC 'risers' like ND, Cuse, FSU, Miami, NCSU, Clemson?

Someone has a little misplaced SEC hoops envy

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Coming up in a single season...
In the tournament, are you more concerned with Florida who won back-to-back titles or Clemson/Miami/FSU?
Tenn also had a run at #1 this year. Yay yay, so did loluva. But after the past several years, and especially last year, who are you more concerned with facing? Hint, they don't have crossed butter knives.
Arkansas? Always a threat with 6 final 4 appearances. LSU, 4 final 4's.
NC State has 3. And that's the most of an ACC school while a member of the conference besides Duke and UNC.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

And that's the most of an ACC school while a member of the conference

So ... you are willing to count Arkansas's Final Four appearances, the most recent being 1995 and three head coaches ago. You're willing to count Florida's championships from 2006 and 2007.

But you exclude Syracuse's three Final Fours in that same timespan, because they weren't in the ACC at the time? You exclude Louisville's three Final Fours in that same timespan, becasue they weren't in the ACC at the time?

If you dont exclude them for being out of conference then things like the Flutie Hail Mary is an ACC moment, oh the ACC is claiming that, then carry on.

Exactly. They weren't recruiting for an ACC schedule, ACC tv, ACC travel, ACC bias (if there is one) or knock (see SG's team that finished 4th and didn't get a bid...)

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I guess. But I think that if we are comparing conferences today, it seems that Louisville's national championship in 2013 and Syracuse's 2013 Final Four (2016 also, but in the ACC then) are at least as relevant as Arkansas being in the Final Four in 1995.

Surely Louisville and Syracuse bring at least as much clout to the ACC as Arkansas does to the SEC, right? Arkansas has only finished a second ranked in the top 25 once since Bill Clinton was president.

My point has been that in a single season it's easier to go further in the big dance as a member of the SEC than the ACC. Yes, single teams have done some things in the dance from the ACC, but the list of accomplishments is longer for SEC teams. Higher ceiling.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank


Final Four appearances since 1998-99 by current ACC teams: 18 current SEC teams: 10.

NCAA Championships in the past 20 years: current ACC teams: 8, current SEC teams 3

Take out UNC, Duke, and Kentucky.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Might as well take out Florida so it's two for two. Then how would it look? Just throwing teams out isn't strengthening the argument.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Taking out the royalty of the conference. That's the point of this subthread. That theres a better chance to rise above a lone king (Kentucky) in the SEC than two of them (UNC and Duke) in the ACC. And that's why I posted the success of the other teams in the conference. Not taking away from those three. And no, it doesn't need to be two and two because there aren't two programs in the SEC with deep long success. I'll say it again, easier to rise up in a single year in the SEC than in the ACC. And no, previous success while not a member of the conference doesn't count.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Taking out the royalty of the conference. That's the point of this subthread. That theres a better chance to rise above a lone king (Kentucky) in the SEC than two of them (UNC and Duke) in the ACC.

That certainly doesn't make the SEC a better conference.

What it does mean, however, is that if you do well in the ACC, you'll likely be seeded higher. Which is an advantage in the tournament.

Can't tell, but that may be what you're saying.

Whether they were in the ACC or not.is irrelevant. Accomplishments and tradition carry a lot of weight.

Right they were playing in a tougher conference against tougher competition recruiting more physical players.

The Big East only got better at basketball when VT, BC, and UM left.

You're kidding, right? Florida is 19-14.

They'll win in the first round, but only because I hate them.

Single year, not necessarily this year.
Better success in a given year from the field in the SEC than the ACC.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Agree there, but I do think its fair to say that this whole thing has taken a lot of wind out of the sails about being a 4 seed in the tourney in a spot where I'm seeing a lot of people say we have a legitimate chance to make a long run. Duke is the huge road block, but if we can get past them, we could go really far.

But instead of talking about that, its all about how it looks like we're going to lose Buzz to aTm the second we're eliminated.

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

I wish we were talking about VT's chances in dance this year, but all the oxygen is going towards Buzz's future.

Yep, Buzz has accomplished almost exactly what we all had in mind when he got here. He's turned us around, made us relevant and made us a regular in the N..C..A..A... tournament. If there was ever a time to print a "Mission Accomplished" shirt, this is it.

We are where we hoped he would get us. Offer him a fair raise, something like $4M, and when he doesn't take it, go find someone else to grow what he planted. And thank the man, he deserved it for taking a career risking chance on us. Just think about it, if he had stayed at Marquette, he would still be aTm's #1 choice right now. He came here, created something out of nothing, and still ended up where he should be. That's a remarkable risk he took that ended up only benefiting us.

The only part I'd disagree with there is the "created something out of nothing". I'd more credit Weaver for "creating nothing out of something".

Weaver did his best to torpedo what Greenberg had accomplished.

I'd also suggest that Buzz now gets more credibility, because at Marquette has always been good at basketball. He definitely rebuilt VT basketball to be competitive in the ACC.

If there was ever a time to print a "Mission Accomplished" shirt, this is it.

I completely disagree with this. We haven't yet won a NCAA tournament game in his 5+ years as head coach and we should be thinking "mission accomplished"? No way. Our program isn't at the point that it's set up for immediate, much less sustained, success if Buzz leaves.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

this is where I'm at as well.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Me, too.

I love what Buzz has done here, but like a broken record I'll have to repeat: He's not done, yet.

I mean if he decides he's done, then he's done and there's nothing we can do about it. I agree that would be disappointing and I don't understand people acting like we've been delivered to the promised land of the basketball elite.

We are out of the desert. I'm happy to be out of that wasteland, but if NAW declares for the draft, Blackshear transfers, and Nolley, Harris, or Miller never suit up for VT, then basically we made it out of the desert and realized we're out of food and water. This is not a stable situation and will require a solid if not excellent hire to restock the supplies and maintain a semblance of momentum.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Sure, if he decides to leave, he's done. What I mean is that the mission isn't accomplished. He hasn't done all he can do. He hasn't reached the ceiling of the program.

The program has unrealized potential, but if Buzz leaves it will be left for someone else. It's very dependent on the heroics of the coach.

it will be left for someone else.

My worry is that, regardless of who we hire if Buzz leaves, we are not in a place where the new coach can come in and immediately build upon what Buzz has done. I think we're in for a stretch of NIT/no post-season play, and we're all left wondering what could have been had Buzz stuck with us for a few more years.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

IMO the only way next year isn't a major downer is if Buzz stays and convinces NAW to stay (and KBJ if he's thinking of leaving).

If Buzz goes I'd expect NAW to go to the draft and KBJ to grad-transfer to A&M.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Valid point. I definitely could see a bad hire gavingbus back in irrelevancy immediately

It is a shame that his now way too public courtship with TAMU had to color our dance this year, and make no mistake about it, it is coloring this dance for a lot of us

I agree with this 100%. I'd like to think this site would be abuzz (pun) with excitement about this tourney and our ability to actually make a run. But it isn't, and that's a shame.

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

It is a shame that his now way too public courtship with TAMU had to color our dance this year, and make no mistake about it, it is coloring this dance for a lot of us.

To be fair, Buzz isn't doing any public courting, at least that I've heard. It sounds mostly like industry insiders and some such, not Buzz.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

As long as I can remember (~ 31 years), this is the first time we as a Hokie Nation have faced the realization that one of our major coaches might get poached by another school. Sure, Beamer took an interview at UNC but was he really going to leave VT for UNC? This feeling kind of sucks.

β€œTHE CUP IS GOING NOWHERE MIKEY!!! THEY DID IT SOMEHOW!!”

He all but signed the contract. There was a handshake deal between Beamer and Dick Bradour. It was the narrowest of near misses for VT for sure. I forget who the potential replacement names where, but it was not great Bob

Thats how I remember it... it was as close to disaster as any school would want to be regarding a head coach. We avoided it, thankfully, but there were some significant finances involved (mostly for the assistants if i'm recalling correctly).

If the A&M rumors are true then that really, really sucks. However, we've pointed out a lot of benefits of staying here as well. I dont think A&M will give Buzz the same contractual flexibility - if they are going to give him the reported $$$ then there is going to be an equally impressive buy-out that they will be pushing for (although a quick read on Jimbo's contract appears that there is no buyout clause...so, fuck).

Staying here also has the potential to leave Buzz as one of, if not the premier coach in the ACC in the near future. Coach K, Williams, Boeheim, and Hamilton all have to be extremely close to retirement. That leaves Bennett as the only coach that is consistent delivering Top-10 teams in the ACC.

Might not be a major coach to you but Iowa State poached Kevin Dresser 2 years ago, which sucked at the time.

To be fair Dresser is from Iowa and still has family in Iowa. If I'm not mistaken Iowa State offered him a pretty big contract as well.

It's Time to go to Work

So a lot like Buzz and Texas.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Iowa State offered him a pretty big contract as well

7 years, $2.25 million, per Wikipedia

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

if you read his book, he had pretty much decided he was leaving until he came back to Blacksburg following the interview.

He made the right choice, and I think he'd agree with that right now.

That would have been quite the culture shock down there...talk about not the right fit..

Yes, Yes he was going to leave. Weaver had basically decided that Beamer was just never really leaving because of his love for VT and being an Alumni, and didn't take him seriously. It wasn't until Beamer was "packing his bags" that Weaver realized he wasn't going to stay just because he was a VT man. Weaver panicked and gave Beamer what he wanted. Thank God he wised up eventually. That was as close to gone as it could have gotten, without him leaving.

Bud Foster is made of hokie stone!

And the thing is he was leaving over getting more money for his assistants. UNC offered to make his staff the #4 paid staff in the Country (at the time), and VT made them #1 to keep Beamer and crew.

Man.

Imagine having the top paid staff in the country.

*gobbles richly*

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Because we never hyperventilate about Bud Foster leaving...

Achievement unlocked: All of the Fullers

"Sam Rogers is a college football icon" SB Nation

Thanks Frank!

I'm disappointed that Buzz maybe leaving, but very thankful he choose to come here in the first place. If Buzz does leave, I hope we find someone good to replace him. I'm a little concerned with some of the names I see popping up here.

It's going to take dynamic leadership to come in here and continue to build upon what Buzz has done. The wrong hire is going to set the program back to current BC/GT/Wake Forest levels, and that's a long climb back up to respectability.

I think I'll always be a Buzz Williams fan, just really like what that guy is about.

As Dr. Suess said: Don't cry because its over, smile because it happened.

That's some pretty good life advice right there.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Whether Buzz stays or goes, I hate that this story is overshadowing what could be our best team ever, getting ready to potentially make a deep tourney run.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

And for that, I blame aTm. Those @$$hats may have used the "get Jimbo Fisher" engagement and negotiations model on Buzz and F*cked up our team cohesion at the exact wrong time. F them!!

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

Which is a shame ... aTm was always a program I respected.

Pre-SEC aTm and post-SEC aTm are like two different programs.

"I liked you guys a lot better when everybody told you you were terrible." -Justin Fuente

If you could look at the heart of aTm pre- and post-SEC side-by-side, it would be like Faces of Meth .

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

They talked a lot of shit about Texas for years, but ended up becoming the very thing they were sworn to destroy.

"They'd rather win football games, you'd rather be sophisticated. Go like baseball loser."
-Colin Cowherd

#ALLMAROONEVERYTHING

Everything I've heard suggests it will take a miracle change of heart for Buzz to stay, and I don't blame him. Sports are incredibly important, but there are so few situations where I would ever turn down a $2MM raise, especially if it was going to locate me even closer to friends and family.

I am mentally prepared that he is leaving, and I hope we can find a coach who will maintain this team at the competitive level we have reached. That said, I am only concerned with making the most of this year at the moment and the potential for a deep tournament run is on my mind.

Do we even have the finances to meet Buzz half-way to what A&M is offering? I.e., can we afford to up his contract to $4m annually?

I am guessing no. Our smaller Athletic Department budget is going to make it very hard to be legitimate contenders in football and basketball. The price of good coaches keep going up and unless we have guys who want to be here more than they want money, we will struggle to maintain both sports.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Yes, we could go to $4M. But I'm sure he would be asking for more, if not in salary, in commitment to facility upgrades.

I love Buzz to death, but there are too many good choices out there.

Should also be mentioned that Texas has no state income tax.

Buzz is leaving. It is what it is. He was never going to be Frank Beamer in sneakers anyway. He's wired different. He is motivated by different things, he is his own agent. Keeping a guy like that at one non traditional basketball school was always going to be tough. He was never a VT lifer, we knew that when he came here. Having said that, he is ultimately leaving because they are going to nearly double his salary, and I know you are all shocked, but he will also get a much better shoe deal from Adidas- even though we are told he is "Mr. Nike".. money talks. And that's what this came down to.

We probably shouldnt expect any new hires to ever be a Frank Beamer. They don't exist anymore.

I think if a guy like Wojo gets hired by Duke, he will stay there 40 years if they let him. Same with Manning at Kansas- if they hired him, that would be the pinnacle. It -could- happen, but would have to be the right circumstance and probably with an alum.

Kansas wouldn't touch Manning with a 68 foot pole at this point. He needed to take a mid major job rather than fail in the ACC. If Self leaves any time soon, than Norm Roberts is likely their next head coach, but if Self coaches until he is equal to Coach K in age, than there is no telling who the next coach will be at this point.

I would love for Buzz to stay but wouldn't be too worried if he left. Hurt yes because these last few seasons have been a lot of fun but not worried nonetheless. Here's why:

1. Whit Babcock hasn't made a glaringly bad hire yet. I think Fuente has proven he can compete as long as he doesn't show Cornelsen the same loyalty Beamer showed Stinespring if Corn doesn't get his shit together. The jury is still out on Kenny Brooks, but our girls are still more competitive now than they were in the past.

2. I honestly think we've reached our pinnacle with Buzz this. Nearly every guy we're losing this season was a 4-star recruit. Next season doesn't look quite as promising, nor do future seasons given the last couple recruiting classes. I know Buzz has been able to get them most out of his guys every season he's been here, but that "most" is much higher with better recruits.

3. Before Buzz came here, basketball was an afterthought in our athletic department. Contrary to what a lot of people would say, I thought Seth Greenberg did a great job here given his resources. Had Jim Weaver put as much into the basketball program as Whit has, I think Seth could have done a lot more here. In just his fourth season here, he took us to the second round of the NCAA with a roster that was his. He should have been in the tournament a few more times as well. Sure the ACC wasn't as tough back then, but a guy who we generally say wasn't that good actually did about the same as Buzz in his first four to five seasons as Buzz. With the amount of money now being invested in the basketball program, I think that there are a lot of guys like Greenberg who could do a good job here. Our options are not as limited as they used to be.

4. We now have somewhat of a brand recognition. We were in the top 25 nearly this entire season. We're a 4-seed. We'll likely have a first round pick in this upcoming NBA Draft. Whoever does get the job won't have as difficult a job as Buzz did in his first couple seasons.

This sucks because it's the end of one of the best, if not the best, eras in VT basketball. It's not the end of the world though. Whit clearly cares about his basketball programs, and I trust that he'll make another great hire.

Marshall University student.
Virginia Tech fanatic.

I love Buzz. This would be a letdown.

But it you truly love something, let it go , if it comes back it was meant to be.

But really, chain this guy to the radiator in the basement and double padlock the soundproof door. I REFUSE to go back to the NIT, I WONT!

The Dude Abides

Should we call her:

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

It's a small kick in the dick that Tony Bennett had the opportunity to go "home" to coach at Wisconsin and turned it down to stay at UVa.

There's plenty of cheese in Charlottesville so they can compliment their wine and charcuterie board tastes, so he probably feels right at home.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

mmmm cheese and charcuterie.

You can criticize the french all day, but their commitment to good cheese, charcuterie and bidets is life changing. Seriously, if you aren't fortunate enough to be serviced by a bidet, you are missing out. Gamechanger.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

You should be ashamed to use the word charc-whatever you said, and that you knew how to spell it. Its so LOLUVA.

google actually helped me out with the spell check

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I understand that nobody knows anything, but how does our success in the tournament predict what Buzz might do?

First weekend exit I would think wouldn't affect it. If we make it by Duke does that change anything for him? Certainly I'd think making it to the final four would have to force Witt to pull out all the stops to try to make him stay.

I'd say if we win the whole thing, maybe there's a 10% chance he stays

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

If we win the whole thing.... whilst confetti blankets the arena floor and the players are celebrating and being given their newly stitched 2018 NCAA Championship hats and t-shirts...

Buzz will take off his vest revealing a TA&M shirt and don his very own TA&M hat.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

And I would 100% be okay with that

If Buzz can deliver our first team national championship, I am 100% okay with him doing this.

Twitter me

Ahem, Bass Fishing

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

I thought that was an individual championship?

Twitter me

I'm not sure what exactly it's classified as, or even if it truly counts but as a professional fishermen, I like to brag about it, especially if UVA idiots are going to brag about their 1980 womens rowing championship. There are two guys on the "team" in the tournaments and several others on the VT Bass Fishing Team.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

It's a club team. Not an NCAA recognized sport.

Picky, picky picky. Like the NCAA would recognize a real sport unless we could somehow fake classes to get the best darned bass fishermen in the Southeast to roll into Tech ready to kick bass.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

It's still a Natty and I'll still brag about it.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Absolutely. Anything to poke UVA fans with.

Thanks!

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

For awhile in the late 1990's we (VT Men's Rowing) held the course record for Men's lightweight 4+ at the old Head of the Rivanna race, UVA's home waters.

From about '78 until '86 I fished the Rivanna Reservoir regularly in the spring for crappie. It was an electric motor only lake. I'd be tied up on a blowdown in my electric motor powered canoe and the UVers would come rowing by and I'd start yelling "Let's Go Tech" as loud as I could in synch with their strokes. Pissed 'em off pretty good one time and the dude, and he was a dude, in the motorboat swerved over to give me a wake. He put water over the side of my canoe, and if I could have caught up with him I'd have sunk him. Didn't deter me next time, and I had a musky lure tied on just in case he tried it again, but I never saw that dude again and the whole team avoided me thereafter while I screamed like a maniac. Screw 'em.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Hopefully they will be 2019 shirts.

I know squat about basketball, but when I read anything about Buzz's recruiting trends or how the current roster looks, I think Buzz built this squad to be his last at VT.

I'd like to argue with this, but if he leaves now, I don't see how you could.

When I articulated this in the previous thread, people tore it to shreds and claimed I wasn't factoring in the value of OKGs. I completely agree with you but it's really weird to see people readily accepting it less than a week later.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I'm admittedly pretty cynical by nature but "OKGs" just sounds like marketing for option B or C recruits. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure there are blue chippers with "OKG" work ethics.

Jimmy Butler and Wes Matthews were OKG recruits.

Wesley Matthews was Mr. Basketball in Wisconsin and a high 4* recruit.

Personally I think the OKG thing is mostly marketing and has been overblown. VT's starters over the past two seasons were all rated 0.90 or higher, with every starter being a 4* recruit except for Ty Outlaw. Every player rated under 0.90- still recruited by Buzz and thus an OKG- has made limited contributions or transferred. Jalen Hudson would be the biggest success story and he transferred after his sophomore season. Isaiah Wilkins looks to have potential but has a long way to go. I simply don't see how someone can look at next year's prospective roster and believe that the talent level is even close to what it was over the past several years.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

So if they're a 4* or above 0.90, can't be an OKG.
Got it

Oh joy. This again. All of Buzz's players are OKGs, right? The point is I don't think it's a coincidence that the most successful OKGs have also been the highest rated recruits during Buzz's tenure at VT. That honestly can't be this controversial, can it?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Counterpoint: You can't prove the earth isn't flat.

But...you can...

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Shoulda' put the /s.

Tough crowd.

Also, can you really prove a negative?

Also, can you really prove a negative?

Yes.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Weird article. Yes, you can prove a negative. You can't prove a hypothesis of non-existence by the scientific method. Author conflates the two and provides a terrible example of unicorns. He confuses near-certainty with certainty.

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

Positively.

These days, you can never be too careful, never know when you're talking to an actual flat-earther

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

You noticed that too?

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

The flat earth society has members all around the globe.

counter counter point, you can only prove you don't perceive the world to be flat.

It is impossible to prove a negative in the real world.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Every player rated under 0.90- still recruited by Buzz and thus an OKG

What am I missing? You're follow up seems to be high rated players = high level of success. Hot take, but irrelevant to the term OKG, no?

Every Buzz player is an OKG. You can divide those players into higher performing and lower performing OKGs. The higher performing OKGs have been the higher rated players. The lower performing OKGs have been lower rated players. That leads me to believe OKG is essentially an irrelevant marketing term because player performance has strongly correlated to recruiting rankings.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Ok. I'll leave it here that my only point was because a player is highly rated doesn't mean they aren't an OKG. Your last two posts are arguing something that I didn't propose, but was able to get a sarcastic gif out of.

because a player is highly rated doesn't mean they aren't an OKG

I never said nor intended to imply that. It's an "all cats are mammals but not all mammals are tigers" situation. All Buzz players are OKGs but not all OKGs are highly rated (or high performing) players.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

It's a bad argument as any recruit that Buzz gets will be an OKG. Bacot could have been our OKG until he didn't want to come here

Recruit Prosim

OKG just means Buzz thinks the kid will fit his system & coaching style.. he doesn't really recruit anyone he doesn't consider an OKG... and plenty of OKG dont play for VT

when I read anything about Buzz's recruiting trends or how the current roster looks, I think Buzz built this squad to be his last at VT.

That's pretty insulting to guys like Bede, Horne, Wilkins, Kabongo, and all the recruits we currently have,

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

I regret nothing. The end.

There's no saying that any of those recruits don't cut to A&M with abuzz

Recruit Prosim

Exactly, if they're Buzz's kind of guys, im sure he'll offer to take them to aTm if he leaves.

This guy might be available

Is it basketball season yet?

4th place! 4th place! 4th place!

Think we could trade our washing machine to get him?

Whelp. Looks like we're just gonna have to win the Natty this year.

Overheard as Duke assistant coaches took elevator down from press box: β€œGuys, they stopped the run with a three-man front.” - David Teel Tweet 2018

Types in the TKP homepage, looks at the "new" comment #'s to see the following

Hokies Are No. 4 Seed in East Region (thread): 2 new comments
Buzz Williams and Texas A&M, No Plan B (Thread Part II) (thread): 40 new comments

Heads back to the "Hokies Are No. 4 Seed in East Region (thread)" so I can enjoy this tournament run we're about to make. I refuse to allow the possible (more than likely) departure of Buzz, detract from the support that our team needs. So with that I say, come on Friday/9:57ET! & LETS Go...

"...I'm getting a little tired of hearing how good everybody else is..." -Coach Fu [This week: 1-0]

HOKIES

I saw "part 2..." (200 new) so you've got it easy.

___

-What we do is, if we need that extra push, you know what we do? -Put it up to fully dipped? -Fully dipped. Exactly. It's dork magic.

I'm glad Buzz came to VT and will leave (hopefully not) our program in a better state than he left it.

But lets be candid here. His name will not be cemented in VT Basketball lore unless he accomplishes something more than progress.

To date (under Buzz):
ACC Regular Season Titles: 0
Top 4 finishes in the ACC: 0
ACC Tournament Titles: 0
ACC Tournament title game appearances: 0
ACC Tournament semi-final game appearances: 0
NCAA Sweet 16s: 0
NCAA Tournament Appearances: 3

You don't get remembered for making the program better. You get remembered for making the program ELITE, even at least once.

If he wants to leave, its his (understandable) decision. I'll wish him well. I'm not going to pretend I'll remember his contributions forever. I'll possibly remember it until we have someone who stays long enough to bring us to the next level (instead of just slightly better than Seth Greenberg).

Well, his name might be cemented in VT basketball lore...unless we surpass these levels. Which means we need to build on the current success with whomever it may be on the sidelines.

And jumping to aTm is understandable given those zeros above have a better chance at not being zeros...

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Well, his name might be cemented in VT basketball lore...unless until we surpass these levels.

FIFY

Thank you for the pick-me-up. Prost!!!

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Prosit?

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Leg. When I was in Germany, it was spelled prosit, but that was there. It was pronounced "prost", though.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Both correct.

Ein Prosit is "a toast". Also the name of one of the songs you'll sing at Oktoberfest.

Prost! is what you say to someone. Means "cheers!".

Danke. It's been 47 years and I'm rusty. I did enjoy singing those drinking songs at Oktoberfest, and sometimes just randomly at a gasthaus or walking home with a crowd after one fest or another.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

It's been 47 years and I'm rusty.

I read this as "It's been 47 years and I'm thirsty." Seemed to fit the rest of the comment.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Damn, do you know me? My thirst for beer might not be legendary, but it isn't a secret, and if I didn't have to drive my wife for meals on wheels this comment would have been enough to make me think about a nice frosty breakfast.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Your legend may or may not have reached as far as King George County. ;^)

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Hmm. Well, Prostsit to ya, then!

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Prosit is what you say in Sweden when someone sneezes.

Because you're German, and you don't care... /s

For anyone else who is reading, and cares...

Prost and Prosit mean good health, and it's a toast because you're toasting their good health. Which is also what you do when someone sneezes (wish them good health). Except in America, where you hope God blesses them.

I think you're underselling what Buzz has done, especially with where the program was with JJ. JJ Left with a .439 overall winning % and .167 in the ACC. We finished 12th and 15th in his two years.

In the 110 year history of the men's basketball program, VT has one season (1967) in which they won more than one game in the NCAA tourney. We have had all of two seasons in which we won a conference, winning the SoCon in 1959 and tying for first in the A10 in 1995 (EDIT and apparently the Metro in 1979? Hokies MBB Wiki is wrong). I feel like those accomplishments you listed are just not reasonable for VT right now, no matter the coach.

I'll admit to my own personal bias against SG, I never felt that he was a particularly good coach, nor was he an affable human being. When we bumbled our way to losses at the end of the PSU and FSU games, they felt very Seth Greenberg-esque.

Buzz's stats are very close to his (.580 winning % for SG, .588 for Buzz / .472 ACC win % for SG, .468 for Buzz) but I would take Buzz over Seth every day of the week and twice on Sunday. What Buzz did is more impressive, IMO especially with the additions of Louisville, ND, Syracuse, and to a lesser extent Pitt (lol) during Buzz's tenure, which only added to the overall difficulty of winning the ACC.

I just think the bar of winning the ACC or making Sweet 16s for a program that has never done the former and only done the latter once is too high.

He's not Beamer, he's not going to get a statue, but I think he's got the program going in the right direction, I disagree with those who feel that he's peaked, and I think if he were to stay here he'd only continue to grow the program. I'll definitely remember his contributions to the program.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Buzz saved the program (well, really Whit nailing the hire played a big part too) and showed you can be a real player for contention at VT. I don't think people realize just how bad the decison to have James Johnson be coach was. Maybe that's because they don't follow basketball as closely or maybe they do and it just didn't sink in but before Buzz got here, VT was well on its way to being completely irrelevant and an afterthought in basketball. You know how people see Rutgers on the football schedule and say "A bye week that counts as a W", well that was going to be VT. I thought Greenberg needed to go at the end of his tenure for reasons I won't expand on to keep this relatively brief, but he at least had a bit of a foundation built. Like imagine a foundation with a couple of walls going up even if he wasn't the guy to finish building the house. Johnson comes in and its back to dirt. To finish the analogy, Buzz came in and we've got a respectable house to live in and there's room to build an extension.

We have had all of two seasons in which we won a conference, winning the SoCon in 1959 and tying for first in the A10 in 1995

We won the Metro Conference Tournament in 1979.

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

Ah, my mistake.

The Hokies MBB Wiki lists us as finishing 2nd.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

In the 110 year history of the men's basketball program, VT has one season (1967) in which they won more than one game in the NCAA tourney.

Do you mean more than TWO games in the tourney? '77, '79, '80, '96, '07, and '16 would like a word.

Edit: too much going on in the office and not enough fresh air. My bad.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I do not.

'77 and '16 the Hokies were in the NIT, not the NCAA tourney.

'79, '80, '96, '07 we never won more than a game.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Never mind............I'm buried in numbers today and it's not good.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I'm confused as to what you're disagreeing with?

We have once, in the history of the program, won more than one game in the NCAA tourney. That was 1967, we beat Toledo and Indiana.

In 1996 we won one game (against UW-Green Bay) and lost to Kentucky.

In 2007 we won one game (against Illinois) and lost to Southern Illinois.

EDIT: All good!

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Improvement is laudable. He did wonderful things. But in the end, we'll probably lament that he didn't stay and see what could have been built vs remembering improvement.

On this, we 100% agree.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

#sauces Barring something catastrophic and Buzz stays, he will be bringing Billy Gillispie to A&M with him. He coached under Gillispie at A&M previously, and is now the head coach at Ranger College.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

Not surprising, that's been Buzz's MO for years.

Really? that's surprising. Last I heard of Billy Clyde he was in need of a kidney.

Ok how can we help with said catastrophe?

Something something Donate to the Hokie Club?

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

i dont actually wish this on any program (except maybe Pitt so long as Nard is there), but something akin to the SMU death sentence should be enough of a deterrent.

As much as I like and respect Buzz and what he has dine for us; I have faith that Whit will find the next "right guy."
Marquette still seems to be doing okay without Buzz and we'll follow suit as well.

Not a great comparison considering Marquette has been a far more successful basketball program over a long period of time. They managed to recover but Buzz left the roster pretty bare on his way out. Unfortunately it looks to potentially be a similar situation here but it's certainly not impossible for VT to have success on the hardwood again.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

VT has shown the capacity, the commitment, and is in the right conference.

All we need is the right coach.

I'd love for Whit to perform some magic and either convince Buzz to stay or find a great replacement.

Just in time for this observation... Marquette gets bounced by... Murray State? Weird.

I mean murray state has the 2nd best player in college basketball and a top 5 draft pick on their team.

#Bapn ain't EZ

Wanna win put boobie in! Let boobie spin coach!

If you didn't see Murray State winning at least in the first round, then you weren't paying attention. I don't have them beating Florid State, but I will open admit that they have a good chance if everything lines up right.

Yeahhhhh I had it highlighted as a potential seed upset but had picked too many upsets at that point and I've been high on FSU...after watching FSU play and watching Murray St play, I'm very concerned about the longevity of my bracket.

(add if applicable) /s

FSU will be ok.

Biggest upset I have is Oregon over Wisconsin, that might happen.

Outside of ERMAHGard-ner Webb beating UVA today, but I don't consider that an upset since the past is the best predictor of the future.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

My other upsets were going pretty well I picked 10/7 in ever region except for the South. Idk what happened to Seaton Hall it was a 4 pt game when I stopped watching it, woke up and they lost control again. I chalked every game today, except UCF over VCU but that's hardly an upset UCF has a guy that's 10ft tall, so much less exciting but Buffalo is gonna upset TT next round.

(add if applicable) /s

I think I have a more strict definition on upset... I technically guess any higher seed beating any lower seed constitutes an upset, so I guess 10/7 is an upset and I actually had Nevada losing last night on my bracket.

but when it comes to the NCAA a team has to be about 5 seeds lower for me to really consider it an upset.

A 10 over 7 in a conference tourney stands out more to me than a 10 over 7 in the NCAA since the level of competition is so much tighter

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Oh for sure that's why in my original post i made it clear that its a seed upset I mean those mid range games re really 50/50..

(add if applicable) /s

Oh my bad, I didn't see that other post. I think you submitted it while I was still typing out my most recent response.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I also have Ohio State over ISU.... It's hard not to pick a decent Big 10 team that lost a few at the end due to a suspension.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

If jrob doesnt announce he's coming back we probably get a 5 seed and the committee probably matches us up with Murray State.

We match up much better with Murray State than most. NBA lottery pick vs NBA lottery pick.

Always choose joy.

While I agree that we match up well with Murray State, it's not because we'll be matching up NAW vs Lamont. Bede is a great defender and would hassle Lamont all game, and our team D has been pretty good at preventing paint scoring.

While I agree that we match up well with Murray State, it's not because we'll be matching up NAW vs Lamont Morant. Bede is a great defender and would hassle Lamont Morant all game, and our team D has been pretty good at preventing paint scoring.

Get it together man

Ja Morant anagrams to Major Ant. I vote that we start calling him that.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

I second. Motion passes.

ive read alot on here and i dont have any insider info but we have seen buzz for 5 years now, its not normal we know this so predicting hes already verbally agreed to a contract is absurd to me. He does it his way. Maybe he leaves but i dont think its a done deal not even close.

"I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them." - Lee Corso

I agree.

Suddenly Buzz is predictable?

Not so fast, Mr. College Football Fan.

I believe that there's about a 87% chance he's gone to TAMU, a 68% chance he comes back to us, a 53% chance he takes the open Delaware State handball coach vacancy, and a 308.4% chance he teams up with Jim Ross to announce the next WWE main event.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Danny Coale Caught That Ball!!!

So you're saying as long as there isn't an 800% chance he goes to any one place there are no guarantees?

Personally I expect Buzz pull out an FSU hat and sign with the Seminoles at the last second.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Yeah, but only because we didn't have his major.

Seems legit. /s

Legitimate (and maybe naive) question, what makes the UVA job more attractive that they can keep Bennett seemingly so easily? I know they've got JPJ arena which is super nice but what keeps their coach working there instead of somewhere else? Not trying to throw shade their way, just curious.

Sometimes it just depends on the coach and has nothing to do with the school.

I think this is why Bennett is still there. Plus, he might not want to live in his dad's shadow. He might not want anymore money. UVA loves him. He is happy there. No issues with administration. He is winning. He might not want to deal with rebuilding or taking over another program. UVA is undoubtedly his program and not boosters or an AD's program.

The only reason I listed above that has to do with UVA is that they don't have obnoxious boosters calling for the coaches head when they merely meet expectations or disappoint slightly.

Combination of good school/coach pairing and they paid the man. He makes about a million more than Buzz a year and has a huge buyout.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

And look at the ACC. Really good coaches tend to stick around a while. It's a great place to coach if you have all of the support you need, and he has that. I haven't lived in that area since the mid '80s and I know it has changed, traffic, the whole nine, but it really wasn't a bad place to live. Thing is to be able to be comfortable without being complacent, and that comes from within. He's got a hell of a good gig, and I wouldn't blame him for being just another one of those ACC coaches who are happy enough to stick around until the end.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Less stress than a situation such as UCLA. While the Bruins can likely offer more money, UVA still pays him well enough to where the other benefits they can provide might tip it in their favor. He's got a sweet gig already where he can pretty do whatever there and be treated with respect. UVA is a threat to win the ACC and National titles every year. He could have a couple of down years and still wouldn't be in trouble whatsoever. But UCLA still thinks they are blue bloods from the Wooden days. If you're not in Final Fours by year 3, they are already starting the process of looking elsewhere. It's gonna take a unique type of personality to take on that job and all that comes with it. That might not be appealing to some

You're basically making the argument for why Buzz should stay.

I was about to say that. Maybe the draw of "going home" really is that powerful for him and there's simply nothing Blacksburg can do short of becoming Texas.

Edit: To add to that, how many of us would love to have our dream job and "go home" to Blacksburg?

Lemme tell ya. It's fuckin sweet!

Not really. The money difference between aTm and VT is bigger, VT isn't close to the stature of UVA's basketball program, and the path to winning at aTm is actually easier than it is at VT, especially if Cal leaves Kentucky. And aTm isn't exactly demanding national titles every year. Kennedy made the sweet 16 last year and got fired this year, sure, but he made 2 tournaments in 8 years. While on its face that might not seem too bad, I would also say that Buzz could do better than that so it makes sense why aTm is doing what they are doing. What they really want is more consistency whereas UCLA still thinks they're on par with Duke and UNC. There's still pressure there by the aTm boosters, but its not at the same rabid nature. It's not really the same at all. And all of those factors doesn't even including the circumstance of Buzz going "home"

I think Cals recent tweet basically confirms he's staying and getting a nice raise.

Any chance we go after Craig Smith (Utah St) if Buzz leaves?

Thanks to whoever reversed the downvote.

To the downvoter: I think asking about a potential replacement in a thread about Buzz going to another school is a completely appropriate question. It is certainly NOT a violation of community guidelines which can be found here. I understand people can get emotional and upset about certain comments and concepts but I think if we stick to the guidelines it's better for everyone.

I'd say it's more likely the dv was a fat finger error than somebody down voting on purpose.

Really, and not only that, but even worrying about a downvote or two isn't worth the time. Anything can bring it on, from said fat finger, or a bad day, to a misinterpretation of the point of the post. If you get a bunch of them, then you can think that maybe you should at least revisit the comment and see why that could be happening, but if you post on TKP often enough and actually have opinions, popular or not, you'll be getting downvotes sooner or later.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

I'm an experienced downvote recipient. As you said, opinions often get downvoted regardless of the guidelines. I often point that out when other people are downvoted. I think downvotes when used inappropriately diminish the community and discourage participation. When used in the aforementioned manner they lack value. I can assure you that I am not worried about a downvote or two. I am not discouraged by them. Of great concern is the example errant downvoting sets and how that behavior starts to become the norm if it happens too often. It changes the feel of the site.

Errant downvote behavior got me like:

Let's Go

HOKIES

*downvoted*

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Did someone say "downvote"?

LET'S ALL FOCUS ON THE TIME WE HAVE WITH BUZZKETBALL!

SUPPORT THIS TEAM AND THEN WORRY AFTER THE TOURNAMENT! πŸ¦ƒπŸ¦ƒπŸ¦ƒ

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

If they keep playing ball the way they did the 1st half, that will easily be another week!

There seems to be a lot of Buzz to this story.

It has most definitely harshed my buzz.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

I just love the interviews he gives. Will surely miss that when he goes, but enjoying the ride for now!

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Definitely doesn't interview like a guy who's leaving but I digress

I concur but my inside sauce tells me otherwise. Sucks but just trying to enjoy the run

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Do you think in the outlandish chance this team makes the final four or even crazier, wins the National Championship, that he would still leave?

That would be crazy right?

Would be crazy good. But lets save the "We could go all the way" talk until we look like we're going all the way.

Just go 1-0...?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Exactly.

Any chance Buzz is letting this buzz build to force Whit's hand into a big pay raise?

Anything is possible. But based on the common perception of Buzz's character, and the reportedly good relationship between Buzz and Whit, it seems unlikely.

On this same note, Whit was pictured with Buzz's #getBETTER workout group this morning, first time I've seen him in one of these pictures. Probably doesn't mean anything, but worth mentioning

FAM!!!!! Sweet 16!!!!!

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

Not that it means anything but mark me down for a big time NO for Mick Cronin. Guys an asshole plain and simple. In addition his style of play sucks to watch and doesn't bode well for deep runs in tournaments. There's no proof it'll work in ACC play when you're coaching against much higher quality.

There are other guys we can throw the checkbook at who will be better fits culture wise: Nate Oats, Wojo, Mike Young, Kevin Willard, etc. Shoot if we're going older I'd rather take Ed Cooley or rehire Seth before we get Mick.

You think Mick Cronin is a bigger dick than Seth Greenberg?

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

100%

Friend of a friend played for Mick, he hated him.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

There's a reason why they call him "Mick the Dick". Hard pass on Cronin.

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned Bucknell's Nathan Davis as a possible "up and coming" option. Four straight Patriot League regular season titles, two tournament appearances, DMV native and former RMC coach.

Every time I watch him in the tourney his team ends up crapping its pants while either does nothing or screams endlessly. I'm not sure he can coach his way out of a paper bag. No thanks.

Glad I'm not the only one turned off by Cronin.

Oats would be my #1 pick.

And man... if we hired Wojo we might be enemy number 1 to Marquette's fanbase for poaching their coaches consecutively.

I hadn't given it a lot of consideration, but Mike Young would be an interesting choice. He's had Wofford competitive in the Southern Conference for a long time, runs an exciting brand of offense, and he's a native of Radford so it would be a homecoming for him. Seems like it would be a good cultural fit at VT, I just wonder how he'd recruit in the ACC.

I'm with you guys. Heck no on Mick. I also think it is obvious he is a bad culture fit at VT. Don't see it happening. Enjoying the ride for now, but hard not to speculate.

I believe Whit might go for an up and comer who is looking to find a long-term home. Just an opinion - no sauce on this.

Steve Forbes would be better than most. He's chilling out at ETSU waiting for a call from a big dog. UT fans want him back real bad, so if we could mess that up for them, that would be nice.

I need to read up on him. I don't want someone who has an interest in being somewhere else though. I hope his UT ties aren't too strong.

The bad thing is the longer this goes on, without word of TAMU signing a coach not named Buzz, the worse it looks for us.

However, we know Buzz is their number 1 target. It isn't surprising that they haven't signed anyone else because they haven't had a chance to sit down with Buzz.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Yeah that's true, they're really missing out with all those other high profile coaches being hired right now

"I regret nothing. The end." - Ron Swanson

We're a basketball program in the sweet 16 that can't even get a start on finding a new coach, or even know that our current one is coming back.

The whole situation is bonkers

If I had to guess, Whit knows already if Buzz is leaving (or at the very least strongly considering it, depending on how heavily A&M loads the money cannon). He probably has some targets lined up.

I agree. Pure speculation :there is already an agreement in principle that Whit is aware of and has planned for.

What a weird situation for Whit if there is some type of agreement in place. A historic first for the program masked by disappointment that he can't exactly reveal yet.

We can't do anything officially, but with rumors the way they are, I would be shocked if Witt doesn't have his short list ready to go. Depending on what he knows, he may have already started making phone calls and setting things up.

Any competent AD should always have a short list all the time. You don't know what's going to happen with any coach. Shit happens, be prepared.

Even an incompetent AD should have a short list of replacements on hand

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I actually am proud of the way things are being handled regardless of outcome...

Have you noticed??? WE ACTUALLY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT BASKETBALL AGAIN!!!!!

Buzz has spoken a great deal about emotional maturity and intelligence - seems that all concerned are practicing it right now... no leaks, "victimy" jilted AD, no pissed off coach, no dejected players...

Let's face it, Buzz had a question last week about his 5 years at Tech - he never once used words like future, or next recruiting class..... he's probably gone.... but if he is, is there anyway better to go???

If he does leave, doesn't this play really well for attracting a coach that fit's VT (Whit's) culture??? It's always easy to be gracious and above board at the intro press conference, it takes CLASS AND CHARACTER to be that way at the end!

We are SO MUCH better of because of Whit and Buzz. I hate like hell if we lose him, but we aren't starting over from scratch....

You post is great!

I do disagree with your final point however. If Buzz leaves, we will start from scratch all over again. NAW, #5, Med, and Outlaw will all be gone. Combine that with the likelihood that KBJ moves on to a professional career or goes the grad transfer route.

That leaves a thin/depleted roster and not a ton of time to recruit for the next cycle.

I trust that Whit already has a plan in place if the unfortunate were to happen, so I'm not concerned about the long term. But next year or the next two could be ugly.

Is it basketball season yet?

Thanks and I see your point about the players.... I guess I was meaning more about the renewed enthusiasm, facilities upgrade plans and a supportive AD...

Also, I wonder if it might not take as long to re-load since the 18 year olds of today really only know VT's last few years. Do you think the new coach will have to do the same sales job? (Lord I Hope not!). In addition, maybe the new coach may have:
1) a pipeline of cultivated recruits
2) a chance to make a splash in the new transfer portal
3) maybe even a player or two that might follow!

Regardless, it would be GREAT if we were back to our current level in 3 yrs vs 5!

I also think your post was a good one. My wife and I would also like to welcome you and those of like mind to the "GIVE A SHIT ABOUT BASKETBALL'' faction of Hokie fandom that has always given a shit about Hokie basketball. Been a fan for over 50 years. You might see from research that we didn't have much to love about football back in the dark ages, but we still followed those teams and I went to as many football games as I could regardless of the product on the field. That was because VT was my school and I gave a shit about all of our programs. Basketball was fun back then also, long before the ACC, long before Greenberg, JJ, and all of them. Yeah, I get your point, and yeah, basketball is definitely a lot of fun right now, but as I've said before, Buzz did not invent VT basketball, he elevated it. If we were to descend back into "mediocrity", guess what? I'll still be a Hokie basketball fan, still watch all the games I can get on TV or the net, still cheer and get mad or happy with the results because that's what being a Hokie is for us here at the Fish house and for many of my VT crowd.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Yeah, I think people forget that Buzz didn't build VT basketball. He just recognized it as a place where he could be successful. It had the necessary core components when he arrived, except for the coach.

Buzz definitely proved he was right.

Some VT basketball fans have been here for a long time.

Thanks for the welcome!

You are absolutely right about Hokie fans and Hokie nation! It's been great for the country to see more of a "football enthusiasm" in the Cassell!

This doesn't take into account the new coach bringing his guys with him as transfers etc. Buzz kinda did this in year one but the dynamics have changed even since then. It would need to be the right level of program/players.

For what it's worth Buzz told donors last fall that he was not leaving. Now whether that's just a statement based at that particular moment in time or whether it was something more like he did not want to leave in the longer-term no matter what happened or what offers came I don't know

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Fwiw, aTm wasn't throwing $6.5million reasons at him last fall.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Fwiw, Buzz has shown the ability to do things not just for money.

There's some small chance that Buzz realizes that he can't get what he has at VT at aTM. It's working well for him at VT.

We'll be finding out, I guess.

Oh, I understand that. But that wasn't in the equation last fall. And that's a big factor, whether he is going to take it or not.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I wouldn't take ANY stock in this imho

Donors is the key word here. Buzz was soliciting money- of course he is going to tell them he is not leaving.

If Cronin (if I remember correctly, Whit hired him at Cincy) is the next guy, there will be a painful transition. Buzz has recruited guys who, despite all their strengths, struggle to get their own shot outside of the framework of the offense. Cronin is a man to man, physical coach who stresses defense first and his offensive sets lean much more towards isolation basketball. He doesn't have the personnel next year to win with that style of play.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

How many guys will be left? Palmer- a walk on, Bede, Wilkins, and Kobongo? I'm assuming Blackshear would be a grad transfer to aTm. It's not like Cronin would have to convert 10 guys to his style.

come on man, you're being overly positive here. In addition to all the freshmen de-committing, Nolley transferring and Blackshear grad transferring, lets just assume the worst, and count Bede Wilkins and Kabongo as transfers too. New coach has to (gets to)_ build his own roster!

Awful lot of speculating and assuming going on. I can imagine a plethora of scenarios for next year myself, none of which mean jack shit until this season plays out. It don't mean jack, because we don't know jack.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Who's Jack?

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Jack Crow

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Careful.. Legend has It that if You speak His Name he will Appear...

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

He recently had some nice things to say about Mekhi Lewis, fwiw. Also, who is he, Voldemort?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Haha. Nice Orion. I do agree the Cronin is a bad fit stylistically and culturally (I'm not interested in another a-hole coach ala Greenberg). Buzz clearly has his guys but the coach isn't the only thing in a kid's mind. Change also creates opportunity for some kids and they will take that - at VT.

I don't think everyone leaves if Buzz goes, but we will have some roster gaps and I don't see that as all bad as it gives the new coach and easy path to start recruiting some new OKG's.

Since this is major basketball, and half of all players transfer over their careers, none of this is a stretch. Nolley has not played one minute here and was recruited by Buzz Williams. Would it surprise you if he left when Buzz leaves? And in terms of the freshman, the new coach is going to have to recruit them all over again- it's 50/50 at best whether they stay. Hoops is a different animal in this regard compared to football. NC State had 8 scholarship transfers on their team this year. VT will have to do much of the same next year to fill a roster.

If Buzz leaves

You guys are all treating this like a forgone conclusion. The team is still alive in the tourney and buzz is still the coach. Let's chill the fuck out until we actually know whether or not the sky is falling.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Cool, but Buzz Williams is leaving for the aTm job. I personally don't think the sky is falling, and I'm sure we can get a good coach.

Until Buzz or A&M announce that buzz is leaving for the A&M job, he is still here. Has A&M offered him, yea. But an offer is not an acceptance.

Ask me no questions, and I'll tell you no lies

Nothing is over 'til Buzz says it is.

I would loathe a Cronin hire for this reason and a few others.

Is it basketball season yet?

Quite frankly I don't care if Cronin is an asshole. This is a program that was literally making the tournament once a decade before Buzz. We're not in a position to be demanding another Buzz. I'll take whoever can get wins however they come.

strongly disagree....

.

.
.and Whit puts on his batting gloves and steps up to the plate....

The thing is, Cronin isn't the only (or even necessarily the best) option available.

Heck, if a guy like Nate Oats can recruit quality players to Buffalo, I don't see what's stopping him from bringing guys to Blacksburg to compete in the ACC.

Oats is one of a number of options I'd much rather see on the sideline than Cronin.

Nothing against Oats.. but he can recruit players good enough to win the MAC and get in the dance. That's what we know. The ACC is a different ballgame. Cronin has proven he can make the dance regularly and recruit players to the AAC- much tougher league than the MAC.

I thought he was pulling in four star recruits last time I checked? For a school like Buffalo, that's pretty impressive...

"...I'm getting a little tired of hearing how good everybody else is..." -Coach Fu [This week: 1-0]

Oates started with Buffalo in 2015. His recruits are as follows:
2016 - two 3 stars, one "NA" (Natl Rank 100)
2017- one 4 star, one 3 star, one NA (Natl Rank 89)
2018- one 4 star, one 3 star, one NA (Natl Rank 76)
2019- one 3 star, three 2 stars (Natl Rank 118)

out of curiosity - comparatively, in that same timeframe we've pulled in:
2016- three 3 stars (Natl Rank 88) - None of which are currently on the team, S. LeDay, Pig, Sy
2017- two 4 stars, one 3 star - (Natl Rank 18) NAW, Bede, Horne
2018- one 4 star, two 3 star - (Natl Rank 54) Nolley, Kabongo, Wilkins
2019- one 4 star, three 3 star- (Natl Rank 25)

I think given the allure of playing in the ACC, and Virginia Tech in general, he would be able to recruit just fine for us

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I think that's underselling the job he's done at Buffalo. By almost every bracketology expert, Buffalo would have been an at-large team if they had lost in the MAC tourney final.

The MAC hasn't had two teams in the tourney in 20 years!

The fact that they won 30 games and were in position to earn an at-large berth in the MAC is enough evidence for me that he could handle a P5 job.

If Sampson is on Whit's short list he might not be on it long. Arkansas just fired Mike Anderson and their AD Hunter Hurachek just came over from Houston last year.

I'm on the Chris Beard train since I think he'd be a great fit, but I don't know if we have the ability to pull him away from Texas Tech.

Hasn't left Big 12 country since college except for a 1 year stint coaching a semi-pro team in Myrtle Beach. Currently paid $3.125 mil/year, over half a million more than Buzz currently makes. Currently in his 3rd year at TTU; finishes of T-7th, T-2nd, T-1st in conference, 2x Big 12 coach of the year, and is a Michigan win away from back-to-back Elite 8 appearances. Also he's coached a combined 9 years at the DI/DII level with his worst end-of-season record at 18-14.

Pure hypothetical: Would Chris Clarke be eligible to play at A&M next year if Buzz left?