Furman MEH thread

I just don't have fun watching VT football anymore. It's getting harder to justify spending a whole afternoon watching them play just to grind out wins against teams we should be blowing out. Furman were hard done at the end too with the onside call and losing an injury time out.

Fuente's obsession of sticking with Willis is baffling. No defense whatsoever for him at this point. D overall played well, offense was terrible save a few players.

Great, we're 2-1. We won. yay. But it doesn't feel like anything changes because we have a little W next to us. Just feels like we're delaying the inevitable at this point. The team is not getting better, the staff are not learning from their mistakes and the overall mood around Hokie football doesn't change just because we're 2-1 instead of 1-2. I have no hope for the rest of the season.

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FAM!

Not the bagman VT deserves, but the bagman VT needs right now.

Someone should ask him if he's frustrated

That's his ecstatic look.

Not frustrated. Not surprised.

JP

Man... wish we could get that kind of emotion out of him these days.

I will say, I did have fun watching the defense. Not just because they made some great plays, but because they seemed to be having fun out there. They were celebrating together as a unit when one of them made a play. There was a bit of swagger to them which I hope they continue to bring each game.

Yeah, that's the one positive I saw. Hopefully they can keep it up.

Yeah I thought the defense (for the most part) was flying around and having fun up there. Good to see the defensive tackles making some plays.

#thingsiblamethemvsfor

119 rushing yards for a True Freshman running back FAMMMMM!

Gobble Till You Wobble

And he can catch out of the backfield!

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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What does that tell you about Buds style and ability and the Offensive staff?

Overheard as Duke assistant coaches took elevator down from press box: β€œGuys, they stopped the run with a three-man front.” - David Teel Tweet 2018

Whatever the difference is, I wish the offense had that swagger. Hell, the WRs are damn good! They could have that kind of swagger as well.

YES! This was great! Watching the d line get push and then come off of blocks when they needed to change direction was fantastic.

Also watching a long ball get tracked down and picked rather than go for a big gain felt so good!

Is it basketball season yet?

I criticize knowing full well I could never do what these athletes do.

We went 1-0 this week. That's all that matters.

deep, deep /s

This is probably better here. Jfl

"The Hokies look to turn in their first complete performance of the 2019 season against FCS foe Furman."

Im gonna say this. This was the worst win in program history.

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

Nah that goes to the 2012 RAB vs Rutgers

At least Rutgers is A P5 School unlike FCS Furman

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

mmmmmm, not sure about that

they're more like a television market someone wants credit for.

Rutgers was 9-3 heading into that bowl game Fam. Don't know how that equates to an FCS team.

Gobble Till You Wobble

I agree, but the quality of the game was worse IMO.

You can't spell "worst win" without W-I-N.

We have sooooo much Youth....no way we can expect them to compete with the 2-3 players Furman has that have the talent to play at the FBS level.

Sagarin has Furman is ranked higher than ODU. So technically last weeks win was worse.

Damn. That hurts.

"You know when the Hokies say 'We are Virginia Tech' they're going to mean it."- Lee Corso

At the very least I'm glad the team showed some resolve and responded in the second half. It would have been very easy to mail it in and completely spiral the season.

Defense looked good all day save Furman's last scoring drive. If it wasn't for them getting put in bad positions by turnovers they'd be posting some really strong numbers. I think they're quietly putting it together on that side of the ball, but we won't know for real until next Friday and the following week.

But both of these takeaways come with the caveat that it was against Furman, so yeah. Still don't feel great. Glad we have a bye week but not sure how much good it'll do.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

The Willis thing is frustrating, but I like that we finally gave our only true D1 talented RB the ball. Would i have liked King to get run in 4 games and redshirt to get bigger, faster, stronger? Heck yeah. But right now unless we take out Willis for Hooker/Patterson, King is our only hope at having an average run game.

Wet fart noise dot gif

That was pathetic. Furman, a FCS Divison 2 whatever its called now, team is a better coached and prepared team than we are. Inexcusable.

Our offensive system in a nutshell:

We put the K in Kwality

It's tough to expect much from Fuente in his first year on the job for a team that hadn't played for a bowl in 4 years.

/checks notes

Wait, this is year 4 of Fuente? And he won 10 games his first year?

We had a terrible second quarter against a team that shouldn't be that good. Outside that we looked decent against a bad team.

It's going to be a long year.

FAM! Winning streak!

Edit: And a lot of yall need to take Rayo's advice in the game day thread

survive and advance

1/3 of the way to the Drive For Six.

1/3 of the way to the Drive For Six Seven.

Six is correct. only need 6 wins. a loss to URI wouldn't have an impact on bowl eligibility.

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

Seriously, is this what we're reduced to now? Sure, I remember the mid 80s, but holy shit, this team is going backward. Talk of mayhem behind the scenes, lots of losses, and either losing to, or struggling to overcome, teams that are supposed to beneath us. All so we can "drive for six" and keep a bowl streak alive? That's a ....... low bar.

That's the problem, all of these games now feel like survive instead of thrive.

We have the easiest schedule in the country. It's year four, in one of the most successful programs in the ACC history. There is no excuse for the lack of execution on offense, particularly the O-line and quarterback play. I hope I am wrong, but I am convinced that Fuente and this coaching staff are in over their heads.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

I wish I had some more beers

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

*fart noise*

Upside, I can watch more football today without being reminded of a terrible loss.

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

This, so much this. At least I can just be jealous of all of the other teams instead of hating football.

I'm not quite sure what we do offensively from here. Nothing is changing from week to week. Everything on O was just ugly the first half, including the overall effort. It was like no one cared. We did come out at the beginning of the third and establish the run, but after two drives and regaining the lead, we seemed to mail it in again for the rest of the half until Turner scored on the jet sweep. We aren't playing with any sense of urgency at all on offense. If it takes horrible first half performances to light some fire with the coaches and players, we are going to be in a ton of trouble when ACC play resumes. I think the coaches are bound and determined to make the Willis experiment work.

Live speed observations:

Scheme- the lack of intermediate stuff and hot routes is a killer. Furman followed the book when Dzansi took penalties. Third and long, shell deep, bring a pressure and shell over the top. VT can't account for it because they have five out or the RB is going the wrong way (I still don't know who is setting the protections.)

Dzansi was brutal early and derailed some drives when they were running the ball ok. Now, they are going to have to take a look at Lecitus Smith. There were some glaring mental errors on his part. Freshmen are going to make mistakes. But, it is the older guys who hurt the offensive efficiency today up front.

Two bad performances in a row by Keene. I am beginning to think he is hurt. But, he delivered a nice block on the final Turner TD.

Cornelsen at least tried some intermediate route. Robinson found a hole in the zone. Patterson worked a post corner and was open and the ball slipped from Willis and sailed. I believe it was Patterson or Grimsley open on the same route and Willis floated the ball on the INT. While I hate the design, the quarterback also has to execute it. They tried a smidge today, and he didn't deliver. When asked to read the play, Willis had a couple of better moments today (an RPO pull to the screen, a QB keeper around the edge.)

Defense- the lack of playmakers at DE was painful. Becton is the most gifted of the four guys who played, but he freelances too much and blows some schemes. Belmar is the best of the bunch. Adams and Griffin would not be on the three deep on any other VT defense going back to when Gayle and Collins were behind Friday and Drager. That puts so much pressure on the alley guys. Deablo, Floyd, and Dax had some issues today.

Foster has adjusted to his corners- lots of inverted cover 2 stuff. Expect most of the passing offense by other teams to focus on the middle of the field. Farley had a good day today both tackling and in run support.

Ashby and Crawford had monster games today. Yes, Ashby missed the sack that turned into a TD. But, if Becton goes where he is supposed to, Becton would have gotten the sack. Crawford was a monster today. Kendricks took a step backwards. Porcher didn't get much run despite being productive last week.

No Tisdale. Very little Porcher until the 4th Q (he was in next to Pollard for Kendricks on Furman's last drive.) Quillen and Waller rotating at one corner. Hunter got a couple series in Floyd's place and just doesn't seem to be a playmaker. Robinson and Grimsley didn't seem to be involved offensively.

And I know folks want King to play more and get more touches. But, he is going to break down. Someone else has to get some run and be productive at the running back spot. McClease blocked his ass off today. But, he left a lot of yards out there at moments with the ball in his hands.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Also, thanks to Ben at the Merrifield Lost Dog Cafe for the hospitality today. A solid roast beef sandwich and good guac. Thanks for being a TKP'er!

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Damn, had no idea you were there.

We should start a meetup thread next time

Chick Patty w/ Cheese

Sat by myself at the bar. Left at halftime and watched the rest at home. There were kids around and I didn't want to have an outburst around them.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Better man than me.

Though I've gotten a lot better about it, when I do slip up my kids are quick to tell me how wrong I am with my word selection.

Thanks for coming by! It was great talking to you. We don't have a huge football scene, but it's always nice to hang with some fellow Hokies.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

I might disagree on your assement of Adams today but everything else felt spot on. Maybe when we watch more film we can see who he is but I saw a lot of plays by him that impressed me. He held the edge. She's blocks on runs and occupied space for some of those late sacks.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think he is gonna be good.

I will take a second look. I think he has good short range quickness. But, he struggled to keep his feet or his fit on several key plays.

The best defensive players were Crawford and Ashby, with Farley and Belmar a distant third. Crawford had a really strong game today.

Offense will require another look.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Adams was much better than expected on film. Excellent eye.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

I like you played D3 ( I think you said you played at EH). I played at BC before finishing at VT. I try to think I still know the game on the D side. I am glad you saw some of what I saw.

What did you think about the play call for the Tre Turner slant under the line backers that let them get a free hit on him and forced the fumble?

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If it was a read, it was a bad one. RB would still be running.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Yeah, looked like a badly read RPO. I believe it was King and after he went thru a massive hole, he seemed to look back at Willis with a "WTF?" because there was nothing but green.

Thoughts on Chamarri Conner? Being in on the key fumble was the highlight of a solid day, IMO.

To my untrained eye, it seemed like he had a good day. It felt like there was a stretch where he was the only one making plays.

on that fumble play, watching it live, I totally thought Connor lost contain and the RB was going to break a large gain. went from "aw sh-t" to "f- yea" in a matter of seconds.

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

Man do we need Garbutt to get healthy bad, he is the only one who can get a consistent pass rush. Good to see Belmar play better, but have to get pressure bc our secondary play isnt what we are used to seeing.

I saw the same issues with L. Smith not he line. Will be interesting to see if that position gets an rotation the rest of the way. I could see a interior of Huson, Hoffman, and Nester next year unless Smith and Jackson improve mightly.

"Adams and Griffin would not be on the three deep on any other VT defense going back to when Gayle and Collins were behind Friday and Drager." Ouch.

De is the weakest position on our team. Yes, including offense. Very very weak. Strangely weak - never seen it so weak on a bud team - ever. They are young, but just get strapped in - that was Furman.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

I was surprised after the first Furman TD drive they chose to attack Conner more than Ladler. Ladler appeared (from my view in the East Stands) to blow the contain. Conner had a heck of a game maintaining the edge.

And count me in the boat on the last comment, but I would rather push King as far as he can go and risk when McClease is out there the defense starting to key on following his lead blocks on the jet sweeps. I kept saying give 35 thirty-five carries as he seemed to be a lot more productive when the ball was in his hands.

#TeamPeanutButter - because your cakes, pies, cookies, and ice creams are better with it!

King seems to get every yard available to him and fights for that extra one or two that can lead to a breakthrough for big gains. I agree, give King more carries.

I'm just really bummed that Fuente doesn't seem to want to change quarterbacks to provide a spark. It's incredibly indicative that he thinks he has all the answers, and without more transparency into the program it just makes him look like he's in over his head.

I can't think of another P5 coach that doesn't pull Willis after halftime today.

Chick Patty w/ Cheese

I've see this here all the time. I don't think HH or QP are developed enough to compete with RW, and I don't think it's close.

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How do you know?!

I criticize knowing full well I could never do what these athletes do.

Fuente is incentivized to win. I doubt he would (knowingly) play the lesser player. Fuente has seen hundreds (if not thousands) of practice snaps from HH and QP. If neither of those two can prove that they are a better QB than RW (who has turned over the ball 7(?) times in 3 games), then why would you put them in?

If you think HH/QP is a better right now player than RW, then you believe that Fuente is either incapable of recognizing quarterback talent, or you think he's actively trying to lose. I believe both of these are false, and that instead, a few key positions on our roster are just in a bad spot.

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I don't think he is incapable, but he may have some blinders on atm. Whether that's because of Willis' arm talent, he's a RS Senior, he is "his" guy, or a plethora of other reasons that I am sure none of us are privy to.

People can claim that HH/QP aren't better in practice, but as anyone who has played a sport knows, practice is not the same as the game. I fully know if you aren't a world beater in practice, you won't be in a game. However, I feel like the opposite is true. You can be a practice all star, but at real game time, with unfamiliar players/scenarios, and real speed (you know not everyone is going 100% in practice no matter what anyone says) you can be overwhelmed, which may be the case for Willis. Is the gap really that bad, or is it smaller than is perceived, I can't say cause im neither at practices nor a highly paid CFB coach.

I refuse to believe at least HH (who was more of a traditional QB as opposed to QP) can't execute a read option, throw open a slant, or hit a screen pass. My schtick is, at this point, you have to give him a chance. Today would have been a great opportunity. My thought process is HH is a legit duel threat. That alone should open up things a ton. If he can't execute a RPO better then Willis, then i'll be damned. I just can't imagine this is the case. Dude was a 4 star recruit, that means many people thought he could be successful at a high level, and I don't think he is getting a fair shake.

Also, Fuente could just straight up be bad at QB evaluation. I'm not saying he is, but it's a possibility. Who was his bell cow at Memphis, Paxton Lynch. Homeboi did a bang up job in college, but where is he now? Fuente has multiple 4 star qb's (yes,yes stars don't mean shit) on the roster, but we got a dude who can barely execute an RPO, struggles reading overages, and has a turnover accounted to his name every game this year. That can't be the best we have, and if it is, it's massive roster mismanagement.

There are other factors like you mentioned, like lack of RB depth, O-line inexperience, or possibly just really bad scheming. However, a lot of the poor play is just Willis not playing well. To continue to not do anything about it is head scratching. You have a lot of talent riding pine, and you're going to continue to play a dude who, by all accounts, struggles to execute at this level. Refusing to change, and expecting different results, is well, insanity. There are a ton of X's and Y's you can change, but when you refuse to try anything else, you're going to get the known quantity, and the known quantity right now, is not good.

TL/DR: We all don't know what's really going on, but what we are seeing isn't great, and it'd be nice to see a little experimentation.

I criticize knowing full well I could never do what these athletes do.

I'll go ahead and admit I didn't read this entire post but I couldn't continue after the claim that Fuente has blinders on with regards to Willis. Prior to the season, everyone was going ballistic because Fuente didn't name Willis the starter early enough. Last season people continually blasted Fuente for not being complementary enough of Willis because "he was the only one out there showing any emotion or fire." And now Fuente loves Willis so much that he willfully ignores his shortcomings and refuses to bench him to the detriment of winning football games?

That is literally insane and makes me think I'm either living in some bizarro troll world or people have the memory of a goldfish.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I can't control other people's perceptions, but as humans go, I'm not surprised a majority are finicky.

My main point is that Willis isnt doing so hot, so why not give HH a chance to prove himself? We don't know Fuente's thought process, but it appears to the layman we should try something else before we resign to putting out a bad to okay QB for the rest of the season.

I criticize knowing full well I could never do what these athletes do.

At this point, I understand why Fuente would stick without Willis. As unlikely as it seems right now, the bowl streak could still be alive and that's worth fighting for I guess.

But if that becomes lost down the stretch, they have to play Hooker or QP. Playing the lame duck QB at that point makes no sense

It's pretty obvious that Hooker must perform significantly worse than Willis in scrimmages and practice.

Consider that Fuente insisted on holding an open QB competition this off season despite having two QBs with starting experience on the team. If he truly thought either Jackson or Willis could elevate the offense, why would he hold an open competition? Then consider that Fuente opted to bring in Burmeister as a transfer even though scholarships were getting really tight.

In my opinion, those things clearly point toward Fuente looking for someone to step up and take the reigns at QB. Ultimately he did not feel especially confident in the options at the QB position after evaluating them in the spring and as such continues to bring in competition.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

These are my exact thoughts. Leg. And you have to wonder if Burmeister was eligible that he would play in front of Willis. Right?

Hey, great points! (no /s)

I don't think it's "pretty obvious that hooker is worse in practices/scrimmages" because most of us haven't seen them practice or scrimmage, we just don't know, because we legit haven't seen it, it's pure speculation otherwise. I know it's speculation that Hooker could be decent too, but I am a see it to believe it person, and damn it, I just want to see it, at least once!

However, I do think the bringing in of Burmeister is the most telling. I totally overlooked that because of NCAA fuckery. Sucks to think that of the QB's we have on roster, none are apparently better then what is being fielded currently. Of course, this is all predicated in us believing that Fuente isn't just bad at QB evaluation. Which I don't think is true, you don't make it as D1 coach (at any level) by accident. Hopefully project QP will be serviceable by year 3.

I criticize knowing full well I could never do what these athletes do.

That's not my point. Plenty of coaches will pull a starter to provide a spark, and I believe hooker has scored touchdowns on half of his possessions. Fuente has no idea how hooker would react in a game.

Chick Patty w/ Cheese

Fuente has no idea how hooker would react in a game.

I've never heard of a player who was bad in practice and good in a game.

If the QB competition was close, I might agree, but by all accounts, HH wasn't in the running last season, and this season's competition was between RW and Braxton.

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I had a kid on a basketball team I coached who always found a way to get multiple buckets in a game but seemed clueless in practice. Admittedly this was 3rd - 5th graders but still, he just seemed to have a nose for where to be in a game situation.

There used to be this guy from Hampton, a basketball player, his name was Allen Iverson...

There was another guy, Michael Vick, prep wasn't great but really came alive during games...

Completely different. Those guys hated practice, but EVERYONE on the practice field new they were best player our there. The Athletic did a piece on MV7 recently where Foster asked a redshirted Michael Vick to be the scout team QB to prep for Syracuse and McNabb, and everyone knew immediately that he was the future of football.

AI might've hated practice, but Larry Brown knew without a doubt that AI was the best player (as in already the best player, not in terms of potential) and new he had to play him.

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I think you mean MV7, MV5 was Marcus.

There is nothing in the world like Thursday night in Blacksburg!

Yep, fixed!

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That's the incredibly depressing for one of two reasons:

  1. Fuente & Cornelsen (and whoever else may directly develop QBs are no where near as good as promised when Whit was hiring Fuente
  2. They are good QB developers and Ryan Willis really is that much more capable than HH or QP, which means that their talent observations are piss poor.

I guess that there is another option that they are just really poor at properly preparing and/or motivating the players to get out of them what Beamer & Co. used to be able to.

I think it's probably a combination of 1 and 2. I think Fuente and Corny don't have a player who is capable of running their offense now. I think they were overly-optimistic about how long it would take to bring HH and QP up to speed.

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Ranking from massy

Furman 164
Duke 36
Old dominion 155

Tech 74

This is the worst offense I've seen Virginia Tech operate, and I've seen some stinkers. It's damning to our game plan that we started scoring only when we pretty much abandoned the passing game turning Willis into a handoff specialist.

Watching this game, I don't know how we are going to win a single game against the ACC this year. We look the part of the worst team in the league.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

We get to play GT, who lost to Citadel and UVA who hasnt beat us since the early Bush years... there are 2 ACC wins.

VT has had worse offenses.

I'm willing to bet you that VT wins an ACC game. Name your price, and put your money where your mouth is.

πŸ™„

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

All he said was that he doesn't know how we win an ACC game lol. What does putting money where you mouth is have to do with that?

Seriously

The schtick is over the top at this point

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

If the sentence has no meaning, why say it?

I'm saying it's an exaggeration.

I know how we win an ACC game. Don't turn the ball over.

I'm just sick of the pointless negativity.

Edit:

But I knew it was a mistake to come here.

Enjoy your Saturday, folks.

So week one the problem was--turnovers..

Week two, it was youth...

Week three..turnovers again

Week four...youth??? Or do we try something a bit more exotic....how about Cholera Outbreak?

Youth and inexperience will be recurring themes, as will Ryan Willis's poor throws and decision making. Let's strap in for that.

"How you doin', Randy?"

It might take more than a cholera outbreak to lose to BYE

People blaming youth when the bulk of mistakes being made are by a senior transfer...... okay.....

It is a natural gift I posess to create friction in sensitive situations.

Another hard take. The youth on this team are the highlights for hope by my observation. Freshman and sophomores are keeping this team alive. King, Mitchell, Robinson, Big play Tre (I know the fumble.... but ball placement could have kept it from happening) and My man Dax are ballin.

It is a natural gift I posess to create friction in sensitive situations.

Uh...it does have meaning? I also don't see how we are winning a game in the ACC so far. The team hasn't showed much to lead me to believe we are very competent at all. I think we will win a game, probably even 2 or 3, but I don't know how we are going to do so. Maybe King becomes a monster and carries us. Maybe GT just sucks worse than us.

Oh wow! One whole ACC game!? What a boon!

Hey, he said it. I'm just saying that I'm willing to call it.

Agreed. Whatever year it was where Loeffler (maybe O'Cainspring?) tried to install the pistol for LT3 was among the hardest offenses to watch in the history of all mankind.

"You know when the Hokies say 'We are Virginia Tech' they're going to mean it."- Lee Corso

Ah yes, the Stiney-Went-Down-to-Texas offense in 2012. Stiney and some other VT coaches went down to visit Mack Brown's staff at Texas in the off-season and that was the result of that visit. Absolutely awful.

The year of the bad snap.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

Gutsy bet, 1 game

Let's Go...

If we're going to call plays the way we do, I'd honestly like us to go back to the pro style.

I was excited about us running the hurry up. I wanted to gas teams like Oregon used to and keep the defense from being able to substitute and pick apart weakenesses once we found them, but our offense is just a slow, spread out screen game.

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I've seen several 100 yard total offense performances. Some of those offenses make this one look like a track meet.

In that 0-0 Wake Forest game, the VT offense was even worse. But we are still bad today.

Leaving the game. That is prettiest onside kick I have ever seen. Meh fam.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

Yes, that kicker is a stud. Those kicks were beautiful.

We're a bad football team. Plain and simple. The defense is good as always but we can't expect them to stop teams when they get fantastic field position off of turnovers. Fuente is about as much an offensive guru as I am part of the British royal family. It's mind boggling to me how bad we are on offense. I get we're young, but there's zero improvement shown week to week and season to season. Willis is not the answer. We can kiss our streaks goodbye, because at this rate we're not playing in a bowl or beating UVA. I just threw up in my mouth a little...

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

There's no way I'd come close to calling the defense good. Okay at best.

See that's the thing, the defense would be even better if not dealing with short fields and being played to death because the offense sucks. They showed some lapses sure, but part of that is the lack of good caliber players on the line. Bud is doing a fantastic job given what he has and having to hold the whole damn team up.

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Furman doesn't score if they don't start both TD drives on the 30/40. They only had 230 yards in total. Im convinced its 24-0 if we don't TO in our own territory.

74-54

I'd say we score on one of those drives too so I'd even say 31-0

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

They are at least improving from week to week...so there's that.

In before we get called entitled for being unsatisfied with barely surviving Furman.

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We just need about 2 more seasons of data points before we can make any judgement calls

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

30 data points required to be considered relevant. So if we want to throw out the incredible Y1 of Fuente's tenure, you're basically right! I smell a fact check coming on from somewhere in the crowd.

"How you doin', Randy?"

We're just too young to do anything more than barely handle a FCS team

Yay! Way to go! We won! /s

Friends don't let friends go to LOLUVA

Still more energy than I see from Fuente :D

At some point I think we need to accept the fact that this team is young and we're playing with a backup quarterback - boy did we dupe ourselves into thinking that Ryan Willis was on par with Josh Jackson in terms of versatility and reliability. The first half was unacceptable, but like I've said, we're staring a hurricane cleanup in the face. The defense made some great plays today and at times, the offense played well too. I think things will be on the up and up as the season goes on. We'll lose several games, and most of them in probably frustrating fashion, but that's where we are right now.

Take the wins and support the team. Anything other than that is "not helping", at best.

"How you doin', Randy?"

I keep hearing how this team is young, but how many starters did they bring back from last year?

I don't know. Look it up yourself. The team is VERY young. True freshman and Sophomores everywhere.

Our quarterback wasn't the starter last year. He was a gunslinger backup that couldn't hack it at Kansas. The team is young and the baseline talent is not good enough to compensate for that. I get it. You're mad. Even a guy Kyle Fuller was only showing flashes as a Freshman and Sophomore. So, I personally believe that everyone needs to chill out.

"How you doin', Randy?"

Our quarterback wasn't the starter last year. He was a gunslinger backup that couldn't hack it at Kansas

This is awkward. Kansas just doubled up BC.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Fair point, but a little outside the lines of a strong argument based on the fact that he left 2 years ago (or more?) and we all know what a difference 2 years can make.

"How you doin', Randy?"

They're young because Fuente ran off a bunch of upperclassmen.

They brought back 16 starters, which is a lot, and the QB may not have been the starter at the beginning of the year but he started 8 games. The story being told by many here was that Willis was one of the best QBs in the ACC and it went under the radar.

Miss you Dragon

Recruit Prosim

Fuente DID run off a bunch of upperclassmen. That's the real failure here. Good amount of starters returned, from one of the worst, freshmen loaded, defensive teams in all of CFB last year.

"How you doin', Randy?"

Fuente ran them off or their off field behavior put them in a compromising position where the coaching staff had to put the team over the individual? πŸ€”

And let's not forget about the guys that graduated or, you know, went to the NFL early because they were so talented and wanted to make actual money for their abilities. We're still reeling from the bloodbath of the offseason before last season. It's going to take a bit to completely dig out of it.

The reason those hurt so much is missing on recruiting while we still had those players. DT and CB recruiting and management has been awful under the current staff

Recruit Prosim

If by current staff you mean the DC and DL coach yes. DL sand CB recruiting took a nose dive in the two seasons prior to CFB leaving.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

And they haven't really gotten any better in Fuente's 4 year tenure either

Recruit Prosim

yet those coaches have been the same for a loooonng time. Don't understand how thats solely on fuente.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

My understanding is that the coaches recruit by region, not position. Is that not correct?

Recruit Prosim

Then why didn't we keep our actual starter? If he was so much better than some Kansas transfer that can't hack it according to you, why didn't our offensive, QB guru, Bud-Doesn't-have-to-pitch-a-shutout anymore OC and HC keep the guy that was heads and tails better?

Because he was told like every player he had to earn his spot. And rather than show the coaches and team that he was better than Ryan he left.

During the game they mentioned we have 5 sr and Texas A&M has 6 sr on the roster. As the fewest

Of course the problem is

Texas A&M vs Texas State W 41-7
Texas A&M at No. 1 Clemson L 10-24

Irrelevant. This is the transitive property squared, your honor!

"How you doin', Randy?"

I shudder to think what Clemson would do to us. If we played them next week I would expect them to throttle us 50-something to 10

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I would be surprised if we scored 10 points on Clemson. We're a disaster cleanup in progress.

"How you doin', Randy?"

I agree with all of your statement except "progress" I haven't seen any

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Not even defensive progress? The running game was better today as well....in the 2nd half. I think that's progress overall, not just H1 vs H2 in this particular game.

"How you doin', Randy?"

One game rushing over 150 yards against an FCS team just doesn't move the needle for me. One game of getting pressure and sacks against an FCS team isn't tremendously convincing. If we are able to replicate or build upon those areas game over game I'll call it progress. But one decent game against an opponent which should be over matched doesn't impress me. We have not shown significant progress over the past 3 seasons.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Hard time disagreeing with you on that. I'm not impressed. I'm just relieved that we didn't get totally trounced. It feels like something to build from and after the season so far, I am not sure what more we could have asked for out of these guys.

Fuente learned a little about loosening up in the off-season. I suspect he's getting some more lessons in-season. I really do believe his leadership has a big part in this. As that man goes, so does the team. French's reviews of run blocking are concerning though, and Ryan Willis is boom or bust - those are significant headwinds.

"How you doin', Randy?"

I don't care how young you are. We shouldn't barely scrape by against ODU and Furman.

And we're not playing a backup QB. We're playing the QB our coach brought in and decided was the starter. We have 2 highly touted recruits behind him that the coach either can't develop or spectacularly missed on talent assessment.

If you think doesn't matter, then you don't know very much about college football.

Convince yourself of whatever you want. If Josh Jackson was here, Ryan Willis would be keeping cold towels for the dude. Everything else about player development, you are literally making up because you're mad. You know literally nothing about the coach, the qb's or anything else regarding QB development.

"How you doin', Randy?"

If JJ was going to be the clear starter why did he bail? Lol

Genius.

"How you doin', Randy?"

Maybe because he realized that his coaches couldn't produce? He's scored more points in 2 games in MD than he would in half a season at VT

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Conjecture! haha.

"How you doin', Randy?"

Give us your opinion on why Josh Jackson left?

Recruit Prosim

My opinion is culture. Probably a variety of factors surrounding that. He was clearly the best quarterback on the team and got tired of being told that no matter what he did he was in an open quarterback competition. It sure as shit wasn't because "he wasn't going to be the starter next year" in January.

"How you doin', Randy?"

So you agree that the coach is crap at managing talent then?

I think the coach committed some significant leadership faux pas. Like being too rigid, focusing on negatives, and working the dog shit out of everyone and not giving enough praise to lift their spirits in tough times. To me, this is self-evident based on what we know.

"How you doin', Randy?"

And then shit the bed against Temple today. He still had a great game against Cuse but maybe we should stop looking at that Howard game like he was the second coming.

We're older than we were last year and as far as I can tell we are worse this year. The defense appears marginally better but we've yet to play a good offensive team. The offense looks worse even with upgraded talent.
If JJ was going to start why did he transfer?

Boy JJ sure lit up Temple today!!

JFC

He did not play well but the MD coaching staff lost that game.

Josh Jackson was a guy that could run RPO's with ease compared to Willis based on the evidence so far. He also never had the kind of ridiculous turnover streak that Ryan Willis has put on display this year - worst in the country to be specific. I support Ryan but I'm not deluding myself. While often solid for long stretches, the guy blows his left toe off AT LEAST once per game (see INT on a WIDE OPEN RECEIVER). I will patiently wait for one game where Ryan doesn't turn the ball over. I hope it's against Duke. If JJ played for VT we don't have 4 fucking turnovers against BC, probably win, and we're miles ahead of ODU and Furman on the score board.

"How you doin', Randy?"

I don't completely disagree with your overall point. But if Clemson or Alabama played a game with all freshman, they would get curb stomped by Furman and ODU.

Youth matters a TON in college football, and we are absolutely one of the youngest P5 teams. Now, if you want to criticize Fuente for having such a young roster after 4 years, then I think that's fair.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

I'm certainly not saying we win a national championship in a couple years, but realistically, I think our only shot is to play with most all freshmen/sophomores and suffer through until they are juniors/seniors with 3 years playing experience. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem we're tracking to be that team in a couple years. On the plus side, I doubt we can afford to oust Fuente in the next couple years so we should find out.

You think Alabama and/or Clemson would get curb stomped by Furman or ODU if their teams were all freshmen? First off, what's that in comparison to? Are we all freshmen? We're not.

Listen, I don't expect we're at Alabama/Clemson levels of CFB, but this is just blatantly wrong. Alabama's and Clemson's starting freshmen and sophomores are bound for the nfl, usually before their senior year in college, and if you think Furman and ODU are "curb stomping" them, then I just plain think you don't understand the differences in levels of talents of sports.

A junior/senior laden team at ODU might be able to keep up with Alabama or Clemson underclassmen, but they're not "curb stomping them." Odu and Furman players typically never teach the nfl. Clemson and Alabama players do.

I guess I'm going out of my way to ask what's your point? Are you comparing OUR young team to a hypothetical Alabama's or Clemson's?

Edit: spelling

This....is just so wrong. You know Clemson won a Natty with a freshman at QB last year right? Pretty sure they could manage to not get curb stomped by Furman.

You are way overvaluing experience here. Raw talent and coaching can help make up for those things.

Really disagree...

Having a freshman start around upper classmen who can help on the field with plays and positioning so the freshmen has support is one thing....

Having 3 freshmen starting on the line is a completely different animal.

What is lacking is experience....

But....against Furman? An FCS team would curb stomp Bama playing freshman. Mo way. That's just complete hyperbole to prove a point.

I know Bama ended up pulling away in the second half but just last season....

At the half: Citadel-10 Alabama-10

Gobble Till You Wobble

Ok, but then look at almost every other FCS game. They blow them out most of the time.

Defense allowed 167 rushing yards, which improves our rushing yards allowed to an avg of 174/game or ranked 93rd rushing defense

Yeah but the defense only allowed 231 total yards and furman ran the ball 42 times. They did their job for the most part today.

Hey, you guys take it for what it's worth. We've got kids, relative to a college football program, who are still very young all over the dang field. I, for one, am in the camp that the team needs support right now. We know where they sit so try to adjust your expectations and see what we can build for the future?

The power of positive thinking is a real thing.

"How you doin', Randy?"

Leg for positivity. As a historically negative (realistic in my eyes) thinker, I am all aboard the positivity train lately for life in general. I agree 1000% the team needs support and should receive it and I'll always support our players unless they go full on dumbass. I dislike the shit talking about Willis. He is obviously giving it his all.

The problem I have is the coaching staff, specifically Fuente. Bud, well, agree or not, I give him a pass. He certainly has proven he knows what he is doing. Fuente doesn't give me any confidence at this point in being able to develop QB talent and French has questioned how we coach our O-line to play. This offense should be moving the chains in year four, particularly against the easiest schedule in the country. They should be bowling over teams like Furman and ODU with undersized players, seniority and experience be damned. They aren't. My confidence and positive thinking are in the drain for this team because of the leadership and coaching. I hope they figure it out. It sure doesn't look good. Some say Fu may have lost the locker room last year. I think he really is losing the fanbase this year and we as fans can keep positive thoughts all we want, but they sure as hell aren't improving the play on the field.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

we're staring a hurricane cleanup in the face.

Totally agree, but from everything I can see, this hurricane was somewhat self imposed. That's the frustrating part.

Twitter me

It's also something that no one was saying after VT won 10 games in 2016 or after 2017. It's a relatively recent invention used to excuse away all the problems a coach in his 4th year shouldn't be having.

If VT is a disaster cleanup, what was UVA? That was a disaster. This was a fixer-upper where it looks like instead of patching the holes in the roof they covered the holes with graham crackers.

No one was saying that after '16, '17, or even '18 because an article detailing the total collapse of the VT locker room was not released 2 weeks prior to the start of the season. The football program overall is not a disaster, but last year was a disaster behind the scenes with roots we can clearly see in light of the SI article. Serious damage was done. It takes time to restore faith and trust. I think the team is on that path.

I'm not making this stuff up. For the purposes of understanding what's wrong right now, Coaching and Recruiting are a separate animal, and none of them matter if your team isn't acting like a dang team.

"How you doin', Randy?"

Whether this is a hurricane clean up or not, do we really want Fuente in charge of it?

$15M is a lot but better to take our losses and try and get someone who can actually coach offense.

The longer we have Fuente, the anger fans get at close games and losses will become apathy and then we're looking at a much bigger clean up.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Who do you want then to replace fuente? If this was 2015, I bet fuente would be on your short list of someone you'd consider for the job. Is there an obvious $15m answer on who would be demonstrably would be better? Don't mean to come off as rude, I'm honestly asking the same question myself

Barf

You're absolutely right. In 2015 I only preferred Tom Herman over Fuente.

I've been a pro Fuente person and will gladly admit I'm wrong if we win more than 8 games this year or 9+ next year. Better to cut our losses than follow this train to the last stop.

We need an energetic recruiter, like a Will Healy type(not him specifically) for UNC Charlotte. I think Seth Littrel (North Texas) would be an upgrade too.

I'm not an idiot that thinks we'll pull an Urban Meyer or Bob Stoops.

I feel like Fuente is already showing the worst qualities of Beamer. By the end of Beamer's run he hung on too long to Newsome/Stinespring etc and was unwilling to go outside his comfort zone.

Early in his run at Tech he was willing and sometimes forced to go outside his comfort zone and bring in a people outside his coaching circle like Phil Elmassian.

Fuente has already shown that he'll blame the players before blaming Cornelson for not tuning his offense to his players strengths.

Foster took responsibility for that busted run at the end of the game today. I've yet to see Fuente take responsibility.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Good question. I don't know.

Once faith and trust are restored and these guys have had some time to come together as a true team, with a little more maturity and age, we will be able to more clearly see whether this staff can coach or not. When guys are stabbing eachother and the leadership in the back, like they clearly were last year, I am not sure much else can overcome that. We know for a fact that this team isn't 'loaded' with elite talent so that makes the challenge that much more difficult.

We've got some playmakers and I think the staff can coach. Let's see how much these guys can grow this year. If they stick together, the following year should be that much better. I don't think we SHOULD be in this position....it was not expected....and it didn't have to be this way, but it is this way. So, just support Fuente and his team on their development journey, I guess.

"How you doin', Randy?"

I keep hearing the team is young. The OL is young. Yes, that statement is factually true. My questions is: how can Fuente let this happen? How can you end up with four offensive lineman starting who have never played an ACC game in their life??? Can you not see this coming 2-3 years back and recruit some guys while you still have some experience on the team? My point is this: having a group this young is and was avoidable!

Also factually true:
- Brock Hoffman, Jr. transfer was denied eligibility for this season
- Hoyt, starting center and redshirt Jr, injured in first game
-TJ Jackson, redshirt Jr., injured in first game

Also, last year Fuente started freshmen Darrisaw and Dzansi and they had pretty decent seasons with one of them landing on a few freshmen all-american lists.

It's awfully easy to envision guys like Tisdale and Porcher hopping into the portal next opportunity they get.

On the bright side, that was our first win over a ranked team since we beat Duke last year.

At least we didn't lose to the Citadel today

GT was expected to be a dumpster fire this year

We werent

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

If our season last year was a dumpster fire (compared to what we are used to from the 00's), then that means this year...

Click here to destroy wall.

Honestly, anyone who thought this was gonna be a strong year for VT was simply not paying attention. I predicted 7-8 wins, and I figured that was being a little optimistic.

For the record, I still think this is a 6-8 win team that will probably qualify for a bowl game.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

Speak for yourself- I pretty much predicted dumpster fire for this team this year. I'm not alone either.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Yeah, GT was going to have a lot of issues on the field and lose a lot of games. But they play with energy and their future looks bright. A loss to the Citadel sucks but I don't anyone down there truly cares because this season is a total wash for them.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

This reminds me of 2012 when our offense was so inept that everyone knew we needed to change and then we beat Rutgers and I was legitimately worried that nothing would change because "results" a.k.a. "We won so nothing is wrong". This team is bad. Sure, it's young, but the biggest concern is the utter lack of improvement over the last four seasons. Fuente said that he would fix the running game. He hasn't. He promised Bud didn't need a perfect defense. He hasn't delivered. His first season is looking much more like the anomaly than last season. I really want Fuente to be successful. I really want him to be a great coach for VT. But uninspiring wins against ODU and Furman and a loss to a mediocre-at-best BC just doesn't look like the results of the great coach I want him to be. I just don't see it. I also don't think he will get the axe in the next few years because VT is poor. So he's going to have time to prove me wrong. I hope he does but I doubt he will. I'll support the team but I'm preparing myself for a rough several years.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I am most disappointed in the lack of big offensive plays, some ineffective schemes (that leave no QB protection) and vanilla play calling. Where is the hurry-up offense and 40 points per game many of us hoped to see? Bud still knows how to coach, so gotta believe most (not all) D problems are inexperience. Seems like the inconsistency and lack of an uptempo offense belong mostly to Cornelson, but other O coaches may be contributors. I'm still puzzled by the amazingly quick turnaround at Memphis lead by Fuente. And his lack at attracting better QB talent, given his "reputation".

As others have mentioned, Fuente is probably our guy for another year or two, but he needs to take a close look at his staff. And the DC hire will be huge.

"If you think you can or if you think you can't, you're probably right." Mark Twain

I'm very much in the meh camp, but I thought the excessive booing of our own team at points in the game was unnecessary. It was ugly, yes, but I don't think booing the kids we're supposed to be supporting is the right play. Just my opinion.

Otherwise fam and I had a good time and glad to get the victory.

I think things like the booing you mention get worse as more and more funding is required. Exhibit A: Tennessee.

When you are paying $50+ to see Furman nearly beat us, it is very easy to become fickle and apathetic.

I live in Japan and my Japanese girlfriend keeps asking me why our fans would ever boo their own team. Something the culture here would never do, fans support their team no matter what. Somewhat surprisingly, fans hardly ever boo opposing teams or even referees because it's seen as incredibly disrespectful.

Really glad King got up with ball properly today fam.

The thing that gets me is that I've heard for years now that what's holding VT back is things like donations, facilities, and talent but then we play teams like Furman where we should win 48-0, and we're down 14-3 at half.

This was one of the biggest gripes people had against Beamers teams, is that they didn't take care of business when they needed to just go out and execute. Fuente was sold as the person to take the program from where Beamer brought it up to, and elevate it.

And now I feel more isolated from the team as ever, bored with the product that's given to us, and now it's not even a gaffe that we struggle against teams we shouldn't, we're actually questioning if we are just that bad. And it's a shame. We are squandering elite talent and digging the program into a hole because we are financially trapped with this staff

I feel bad for the players and the students especially. This is the only VT football they have known.

There are a lot of flashes of hope. Keshawn King looks like the truth when he isn't benched for pretend fumbles.

Our WR room is stacked for the next few years.

Our O line on paper should have been blocking Furman into Chicken Hill, but they need better coaching.

Our defense played with some fire today. Only a handful of broken plays. A few forced turnovers. A good bit of sacks. They played with fire today and it was actually exciting.

We need to develop these guys and can't afford another recruiting year like the one we just had. I just don't think Fuente can do it with this offense. He got very lucky with Jerod and a defense that had more NFL talent than not.

Recruit Prosim

Saw some pictures from the game on FB and the student section looked deserted at halftime. It's truly sad that bad VT football is pretty much all the current generations of students have seen, and they frankly just aren't as interested in the game as we were as students.

It was horribly disappointing but I honestly can't blame them. The most excited the students got was from a paper airplane. They don't have the ties to the team that we do. That's just as much the fault of the program and exactly what we expected to happen when the iron curtain came down around it.

Recruit Prosim

I can. If you leave the game at halftime because you're unhappy with how the game is going, give all future tickets to someone who will stay and support the team throughout the entire game. Those people that left are no better than wahoos.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I just disagree then. Kind of no true Scotsman.

Recruit Prosim

To me it's just shitty. The fans love 'em when they're playing good, but when they are struggling, and need the fan support the most, you bail. These guys are amatuer atheletes, giving it their all, day in and day out. Most of them not going on to play pro, just guys out there doing what they love.

They can hear the boos, they look up and see you filing out in droves because they let you down. Fuck that.

They're doing their best, and if I could still be going to every game, like I did for so many years, I would stay til the final whistle, like I did for so many years. If you can't commit to staying at the game even when they might not be playing as good as you would like them to be, give your tickets to someone who will.

Edit: I don't mean you specifically, the general "you"

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Thanks I was about to be grumpy if you were accusing me of leaving.

The booing is pretty shameful, but I think that the relationship is that the students and us as alumni are the consumer of the product that VT is putting out there. They make a lot of money directly and indirectly from football, so let's not pretend this is a one sided relationship. This is a business. This is a transaction. We are paying to watch our team win.

I've been to every home game since 2011 and will continue to do so because I love the school and I love the sport. But to tell other people that they aren't fans is a form of gatekeeping and it isn't how humans work.

I would love my wife if she gained 100 pounds and lost all of her hair because we have a history, but on the other hand I would never have been attracted to her in the first place if that's the state I met her in. (She's beautiful by the way I just want to illustrate the point).

And about the tickets since you seem to be fixated on them, the upper decks of Lane are empty. There aren't other people just lining up ready to go. These are the fans actually willing to show up. And maybe you shouldn't blame them, I don't know your life or circumstances, but at least they're showing up for the kickoff. Criticizing them when you aren't there is kinda glass housey.

Recruit Prosim

Personally, I was fortunate to be able to attend every home game from 2001-2010, now I'm further away and I can't afford (money or time) to make the 6-7 hour drive for every game.

But the people in the seats are there, they've cleared their schedule for the day. There is no where else they need to be. My opinion, there is no excuse for leaving early because of how the team is doing, those natty lights will still be there at the end of the game.

I'll also add, if I'm a recruit on the sidelines and see crowds leaving early, like that...VT just dropped a few spots for me

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Crowds leave early everywhere, especially when their team is losing to an FCS opponent. I think the recruit is going to be more turned off by the losing to an FCS opponent thing than the fans leaving early.

And it's not like we went from 66k in there to half capacity. Even the West Club seats were half-full to start this game. The excitement level in that place is waaaay lower than it was in 2010. Terrible home schedule, noon kickoff, FCS competition, negative team trajectory... I don't leave games early either but I certainly am not enjoying myself as much as I used to. You'll see me with a sour face when the corps starts the Wave during the first quarter. But I'm not going to dish much hate at this point.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

This doesn't need a big sub-thread. It's disrespectful to the guys on the team, who put their blood, sweat and tears, risking their health, putting their bodies in harm's way. Period.

It is my opinion that the least we can do as fans, who are fortunate enough to be in the stands, is support their effort through the final whistle.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I agree, but as a side point, I never understood why they would even take recruits to games like that. Bring the recruits to the big games, the night games, the games that generate excitement for the fan base. Even when we crush an FCS team, the only reason I go is to support the team...the energy level in the stadium is never expected to be like a top team coming to Lane.

I'm just here to sling some legs

There are only 6 or 7 home games a season. That's 6 or 7 opportunities to bring recruits to games. Those recruits also have schedules and commitments so it's not always easy for the schools to dictate exactly which weekends the recruits can make. The schools have to work with the recruits to align weekends which work for both parties and sometimes that's going to fall on a weekend when the Hokies host some ho-hum opponent and the game ends up being a real snoozer.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I would love my wife if she gained 100 pounds and lost all of her hair

Last thing I have to say on this...I am chuckling way too hard to myself picturing a bald obese woman walking across the room and you (having no idea what you or your wife look like) sitting on the couch booing her every time she passes

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

It's the very definition of "fair weather fan".

Did you go to the game?

Recruit Prosim

Many people left right at halftime, students and others. It was a combination of poor playing and heat. When that sun came out, it was cooking in the stands.

Yea it's my second week in a row with a sunburn

Recruit Prosim

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Saying that the students aren't interested is false. The interest is still there and if that was true, the student section wouldn't be full at kickoff for a noon game against an FCS team. Don't play like garbage and people will care to stay and watch.

Exactly. I think the students during my years at Tech would also rather go back to the party then sweat our asses off watching a poorly coached team. We were fortunate to be pretty good my years there so it wasn't an issue.

The kids during the Mike Vick years left at halftime as well when the Hokies were up by 30+ on JMU or Rutgers.

Everybody wants to party on Saturday.

Leonard. Duh.

After growing up going to games and watching Tech excel for years my undergrad was 2014-2018 and I had one good season, one meh, and two bad seasons.

This program is flailing and normally where I would jab my friends still in school for missing a game I am actively talking about not wasting their money and time on games. There's no excitement after Enter Sandman and it's 3.5 hours of disappointment

But here's the problem

Which is worse, pay the buyout now and just find someone who can hopefully inject life into the program and begin the process of turning it around now

Or

Keeping a lame duck head coach around only because we cant afford to fire him and continue to circle the drain slowly watching large scale fan apathy take hold.

If Fuente isn't the guy for the job anymore we have to fire him. Keeping him around after you have the realization he's not the right man for the job is a great way to bury Hokie Football for a long time.

can't afford another recruiting year like the one we just had.

Yeah and that's the worst part about right now. As bad as the team is performing on the field, the recruiting isn't much better. Are we still ranked with the worst P5 class, or have we risen above that mark with the recent commit?

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Agree...plus, in many of these situations, the buyouts get negotiated down to some extent.

I feel like there is more than enough data to conclude that Fuente isn't the guy. Keeping him around and letting the program flounder for a couple years to save some bucks makes little sense in the end.

You risk losing more money on a half-empty Lane for the next 2 years, lost concessions, decreased donations, and fan apathy. You start from a worse place with a longer and more expensive rebuild.

I say take the hit now, take your chances, and move on.

You have to imagine that Fuente could be putting he and his family in an awkward situation and if he is not the guy then negotiating the buyout down might be in his best interest as well. Take a year off and then hit the reset button with another program.

Has there ever been another scenario where this has happened?

Well Mark Richt retired last year from Miami with a contract signed thru 2023 which left them owing him nothing, at least per reports.

Also, McElwain at FL reportedly came to some compromise on his Buyout, although they had a potential legal challenge to him with the whole fake threats fiasco there.

Happens all the time. Just not publicized.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

What do you mean by Fuente could be putting his family in an awkward situation?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I remember Beamer saying one of the hardest things for him during the early years was people saying things to his elementary age daughter which left her in tears.

If we have a bad year and continue to see the same results with no changes at all, I will assume that the VT administration just doesn't care about having a competitive football program anymore. The level of play on the field and current recruiting efforts are not going to be conducive to a competitive P-5 level program. That contract affirms VT's complete commitment to Fuente and faith that he can lead this program. I'm awfully concerned right now that this might end up tanking this program. We are dangerously close to being where UVA was with complete apathy and poor performance, while they have built a blue collar brand of football with a dynamic QB that we once took great pride in. I honestly question if VT just wants to be like UVA and emphasize other sports at this point. I feel like being recognized as equals to UVA has been the goal since we joined the ACC.

Here's the REAL problem right now

Virginia looks like they're beginning to figure it out in football. They play tough every game, don't make critical errors, play good defense and have an offense capable of stomping a bad team. They look like we did back in the 2000s.

If we screw this up and allow ourselves to continue sliding back, all momentum in the commonwealth could shift toward them. They already just got a boatload of money off their basketball title, if they can use that to improve football while we slide like this? I mean yeah we have the streak on them, but that mental edge is really all we have lately, the year that streak ends, if we aren't able to change things on our end it could be a dam burst in their favor.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Dude, come on. UVA now looks like VT teams from the 2000s? I know this year's games have been rough, but this is an overly dramatic take.

They're playing fundamentally sound football and beating teams they should and playing tough with teams more evenly matched. They are a QB injury away from a 6 win season but we're honesty on pace for that right now

I am not saying that we are better than UVA right now, but to say that UVA looks like VT from the 2000's is just wrong. More accurate would be that UVA looks like VT from the 2010's and we look like Mike London UVA teams.

Yea, I really don't buy this UVA has turned a corner in football stuff. bronco was trash in year 1.

The only reason they're decent now is because they got a transfer to play QB that doesn't have the normal UVA stink on him.

Let's Go...

True.

Bryce Perkins is able to consistently make lemonade out of lemons. He doesn't have any "give up" in him, and he's just plain fast with a decent head on his shoulders.

Mendenhall struck gold with that guy.

So true. Perkins kept them in the game last night and then won it for them. A special athlete who's fun to watch. The two point conversion run was a thing of beauty.

Herndonrules

bronco was trash in year 1

Why should year 1 matter? Look at VT year 1 of Fuente.

This is a good point. Yesterday while watching our game and seeing a preview for the FSU/UVA game, I was reminded of this:

LOLUVA won two national championships last year, basketball and lacrosse. Their football program is better than it has been in years. For as much as we like to trash Bronco, snow angels, and brick-breaking, their athletic department has really put it together over the past few years. Solid hires in basketball and football, focus on the sports they value, and success on the field.

We are not quite in that spot. We thought we had it with Buzz and Fuente, and Buzz sure as heck was a guy that was making measurable progress with our basketball program, but now we are in a middling state where our pride and joy, football, appears to be trending in a not-entirely-right direction and we're in wait-and-see mode with a new basketball coach.

Here's hoping things pick up on the field and stay good on the court, but to be honest it's a really good time to be a LOLUVA fan, not so much for us.

Virginia looks like they're beginning to figure it out in football. They play tough every game, don't make critical errors, play good defense and have an offense capable of stomping a bad team. They look like we did back in the 2000s.

Skutt and I had the same thoughts about this via Twitter. UVA and VT are pretty much swapping identities: UVA looks like what we did in the 2000's and we pretty much look like UVA did in the London years.

Watching the UVA-FSU game last night was more depressing than watching our game with Furman. Nearly 60,000 fans and nobody left early. To think they haven't turned a corner isn't realistic. Bronco has done a great job there and they definitely are looking hard to beat.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Nobody left early because they were on track to win that game. It was a nail-biter right up to the end.

Oh, and ours wasn't? You should see my nails this morning.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

Ours was also a nail-biter, but surely you see the difference between UVa beating FSU and VT beating Furman?

FSU used to be a contender. They used to be someone. UVa gets a quality(?) win out of it. Now we all know that FSU isn't all that this year, but the perception is there. And it is an ACC win.

Furman, well, is Furman. We can win that game and it still means nothing to the types of fans who might leave a game early.

The Hoos down in hooville partied late into the night over FSU running out of time on that last drive, while we couldn't wait 10 seconds to start a Furman MEH thread.

"A nail biter over Furman is better than a nail biter over FSU" is a helluva Galaxy Brain take.

That's not what I said.

What I said was that a UVa win over FSU is a lot bigger deal than a VT win over Furman.

Which is also why they had their biggest crowd in years.

Fun Fact: I learned through discussion with some UVA fans, that it's acceptable to rush the field as an at home ranked team favored by 7.5 because "the basketball team was there"

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I cannot get on board with the notion that, three weeks into the season, we are saying that UVA currently looks like a 2000's VT football team. We had 9 10-win seasons in the 2000s.

I do agree that we look like a Mike London UVA team currently. But again, we are three weeks into the season. Plenty of time to get better or worse.

I think we're talking about the identity/style of the teams more so than comparing to our results. UVA looks tough, playing smart, and do not appeared to get rattled in tight situations, which are very much Beamer-era traits.

Devil's Advocate:

UVA didn't need to get rattled the entire 4th quarter because FSU marched them down the field several times with personal fouls. One drive of which gifted to them on the 1 yard line with said personal fouls.

The last drive of the game where they had to buckle down, there were 3 or 4 penalties on UVA, one of which a personal foul on the coach, and they only prevented OT because of FSU's poor coaching.

Perkins won't be able to escape sacks like that all season and tries to force things where he eventually throws some really boneheaded balls at times.

To me, UVA is a girl you meet at the bar after a few drinks. At first she looks hot, so you buy in and eventually take her home and have a good time. But, then you wake up the next morning and realize she wasn't as good looking as you thought.

They've played garbage Pitt, FCS W&M, and garbage FSU. Time will tell when they come up to ND, Miami, Duke stretch.

Next is ODU (transitive property need not apply). I don't wanna hear how great they are (but we will) when/if UVA wins by 21+ how we only mustered 28 points against them and only beat them by 14, etc.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

They've played garbage Pitt, FCS W&M, and garbage FSU. Time will tell when they come up to ND, Miami, Duke stretch.

Pitt just lost to a very good Penn State team by 7. I'm not sure they are 'garbage' unless losing to UVA means they receive that title. UVA is 11-5 since the start of the 2018 season; we're 8-8, and we're probably a combined 36" away from being 6-10. That being said, a win is a win. We'll have the same tests in the ACC coming up, but UVA has developed a lot of solid momentum this year ahead of the ACC heavy schedule, and we still have a lot of question marks. That last sentence is an example of just how our respective identities have flip-flopped.

Lol..."garbage" Pitt that probably could have run for 800 yds. on us last year.

I didn't realize graduated players from last year's game would be playing in this season's game.

Through 3 games:

A.J. Davis RB - 29 attempts for 119 yards
Vincent Davis RB - 18 attempts for 62 yards

As a team they have 262 yards rushing this season....

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

And I didn't realize that beating an FCS team by 7 points was a reason to puff out your chest and call other teams garbage.

Pitt played PSU within 7 this week. I would venture to say PSU is just maybe slightly better than Furman. Just maybe. Possibly going out on a limb there.

Emotion runs high in rivalry games..... how people can compare completely different games and their outcomes to an unrelated VT game outcome is completely beyond me.

Army barely beat Rice....so therefore, they should've gotten killed by Michigan right?.... just because you play one good team close, doesn't make you a good team...

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Let UVA lose their Senior quarterback that keeps them in every game, their only 2 recieving threats that are seniors, and their 2 best players on defense that are seniors. Then tell me how much Bronco has changed that program.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Even just losing Perkins will be extremely telling. Every UVA fan I know was calling for Robert Anae's job in 2016 and 2017.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

They don't make critical errors?

Except for the 60 penalty yards in the last 90 seconds of the game that nearly let FSU tie the game. Those weren't critical, I guess?

UVA hasn't played anybody good yet. Neither has UNC. The best team in the Coastal is likely worse than the worst team in the Atlantic. Except Louisville probably.

Keeping a lame duck head coach around only because we cant afford to fire him and continue to circle the drain slowly watching large scale fan apathy take hold.

If Fuente isn't the guy for the job anymore we have to fire him. Keeping him around after you have the realization he's not the right man for the job is a great way to bury Hokie Football for a long time.

It's not just Hokie Football either. It's VT Athletics. Football drives everything else. Keep the wrong guy in place too long and risking apathy like you said leads to a lot less money coming in overall, which hurts every sport. Like I mentioned in a thread last week, it becomes a decision of which is the less painful hit; the short term one (the buyout) or the long term one (losing revenue from a bad team while you wait it out). If this trend continues, Whit has a very difficult decision coming up, likely the most important one of his tenure.

Reading this made me wonder if Whit will leave for USC because of it or stick it out.

and can't afford another recruiting year like the one we just had.

Huh? Last year's class was on par with the past 25 years. Number 3 ACC, no. 26 national... Rest of your thoughts spot on

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Sorry I was referring to the 2020 class.

Recruit Prosim

Was it just a coincidence that Turner scored on Hooker's one snap of the game? Or was it a read-option where he made the right call?

Coincidence

Recruit Prosim

I think Willis is still the probably best QB and should start..... BUT if we're not gonna let him throw downfield anymore, we should start Hooker or Quincy. Willis is a gunslinger and he's gonna throw some terrible balls downfield and also some amazing ones. After the interception today, they limited the playbook and all the passes were screens or very short routes. What is the point of playing a gunslinger if you don't let him throw? Either let him air it out and deal with some mistakes or just play a younger guy who can (hopefully) make those easy throws as a game manager. I think because of the interceptions, we're stuck in between because they don't want to bench him for a guy who has never thrown a pass in college (Hooker), but they don't trust him anymore. So we might be in for this weird middle ground of Willis as a game manager, which makes little sense.

I was thinking the same thing. If you nerf Willis' playbook because you are afraid of turnovers, then you might as well play Hooker or QP. The entire offense (minus King and the WR) is just bad though. How about the play where Willis got sacked and we only had 2 guys running routes? How is it possible to block so poorly?

Poor coaching. Poor play design. There was on play that had like double play action and he got sacked after

Recruit Prosim

Aside from the WR, especially big play Tre, and King, I don't see anything to get excited about. Beamerball is dead-- the special teams are hurting us not helping us. The offensive line is terrible. We have a QB who makes bad reads running a RPO offense. Just how bad are Hooker and QP in practice that they cannot make a case to play in a series? This was just really bad. The defense had 4 sacks and 6 TFL which is the minimum of what'd you'd expect vs a FCS team. But Furman had the same against us. Our best RB after King got hurt, was a WR.

This team has come full circle in the 30+ years that I've been watching them. We look like the late 80's teams.

Thank goodness for this gem:

ARTICLE 12. Eligibility to Block

No Team A player may block an opponent until Team A is eligible to touch a free-kicked ball (A.R. 6-1-3:II).

Yeah spot on about late 80s as one who suffered through those train wrecks. Whit needs to have the Dave Braine talk with Fuente... Meaning this is not about your friends this is about building a winning program and you need to make staff changes

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

I was thinking the exact same thing. It's probably time to let Corny go. The question is who will be the Ricky Bustle and Phil Elmassain types for this staff?

my guess is the big whistle is the one crossing off wide swaths of the field for our QB... hard to blame the oc if his field and range of plays calls is constricted

Spot on. Even on a bad day, the differences in a P5 program (scholarships, talent, size, athleticism) and even a good FCS should enable the P5 team to overwhelm the opponent. Our less talented players are still supposed to be better than their starters. With all these advantages, we still struggled mightily, frankly on both sides of the ball. At this point, again with all these advantages, one can't help but think something is very wrong, culturally, schematically, preperation-wise, or all of the above.

Herndonrules

This program is in for a loooong road ahead. We have some pretty good talent on the offensive side of the ball (minus the QB), but it is very young. It may take another year or two of good coaching and development (which I'm not convinced this staff can do) to get this young group up to P-5 level of competition.

Then on the other side of the ball, we lose one of the best DC's ever to do it. Combine that with the harsh reality that the talent level on this defense is really, really low at the moment. I know there are spots where talent exists, but its not close to what we're used to seeing. Unless the staff hires from "Bud's tree", there will be a complete rebuild on that side of the ball, with likely a few players hitting the transfer portal. When you combine that reality with the fact that the offense under Fuente has never really taken off and we may see another step back next season and in 2021. And BTW, we break in a new QB next year who isn't good enough to take the job from Willis.

Add to that, the 2020 recruiting class is going to be absolutely abysmal, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

I happen to think, and its unfortunate if I'm right, that Fuente is a lame duck coach. I don't think the established patterns that exist with this staff indicate that they are capable of competing at the P-5 level (we can't even compete in the ACC Coastal Division).

It doesn't matter how strong your O&M glasses are, you can't ignore that things with the VT football program are trending down in a hurry right now. And by 2021 or 2022, Virginia Tech will have a Louisville type of rebuild on its hands without Louisville resources.

Is it basketball season yet?

Agree on all fronts. This is what the "just wait til next year," crowd doesn't get. College programs thrive on momentum..and when you lose it, it isn't easy to get back even if you throw all kinds of money and resources at it.

It may take another year or two of good coaching and development (which I'm not convinced this staff can do)

This is the most damning thing about the current staff to me. Fuente isn't a great rectuiter and probably never will be. If you can't do that, then you have to be able to develop players very well to "punch above your weight." Most of what I see from a development stantdpoint has been poor--QB, RB, OL. WR may be a slight exception.
Unfortunately, it takes more than a room full of good wide receivers to win football games.

Fuente and his staff have been far above average recruiting WR's and OL to VT. However, we still have yet to see the full development of those two positions (WR looks very promising outside of the not so sharp route running and the continued blocking issues). But his recruiting strategy is head scratching. For example we currently have 3 lowly ranked RB commits for the small 2020 class. Is this really the best use of resources?

I could list a half dozen things that on the surface appear to indicate that Fuente and Co. aren't terribly confident in the things they are doing.

Is it basketball season yet?

I said it In the other thread and I'll drop it here.

I believe Fuente catfished us.

It is a natural gift I posess to create friction in sensitive situations.

Fuente is 2019 frank

There s no better choice to continue VT football culture

The question is what culture is VT football looking for

Hypothetical...

Would we as a fan base accept a losing season or two if we started a true freshman a QB?

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

In Year Zero, yes, in Year Four, no.

Agreed!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

We need to see signs of improvement. Get it done, CornFu.

VT '10, Born & Raised in the 804.
Rockin the Bakken.
β€œRight turn, Clyde.”

Preach it Dax.

Wins started being losses when we're struggling to close out FCS teams in the 4th quarter. Alabama is up 40-16 with less than 5 minutes left and they're not afraid to throw the ball when that's what the defense gives them. Against ODU, with more than 5 minutes left and only a marginal lead we ran into stacked boxes 3 straight plays, the last of which resulting in a fumble because some brainiac thinks that the winning team should automatically run the ball with the lead in the 4th quarter.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

#7 Michigan struggled to tie Army, got lucky that Army barely missed a last second field goal, barely won in OT.

P5 teams struggle with "lesser" opponents every week, and many lose those games, but wins are wins and should be enjoyed.

Our P5 team just seems to struggle way more with lesser opponents than the others do. It's hard to enjoy wins that don't feel like wins.

And the refs screw us more and .....blah blah it is called being a fan and the negatives stick longer is all.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

Wins are never losses.

"How you doin', Randy?"

We are not, never have been, and never will be Alabama... we can't compare ourselves to that.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Conference play is gonna be rough.

Is it? What team looks unbeatable? I've watched Miami, wake, and UNC play and no team has been able to play a complete game. Gt is clearly rebuilding, Duke while well coached is certainly beatable, and uva is uva, and until proven otherwise is our bitch, excuse my language.

UVA is going to take out 15 years of frustration on us this year and it isn't going to be pretty.

Wake looked very competitive yesterday and particularly solid on D, UNC is better than expected, Miami has lost 2 close games to P5 teams and dominated rather than floundering against their FCS opponent today. We already lost to B.C. and they got plastered by frickin Kansas yesterday.

Other than GT, I don't see us as a significant favorite against anybody else in the ACC this year. Please give me ANY On-field indication that we are better than any of those teams.

Werent people saying the same thing last year about UVA? To clarify I think all of the ACC matchups will be 50/50 games where if we can play a clean game we can win but if we continue carelessly turning the ball over, giving up dumb procedural penalities we will lose.

Watched wake vs UNC and wakes o looked amazing first half and then stopped putting together drives and allowed UNC to come back. Conversely, UNC had a bad half but mounted a near come back. My point being neither team has put together a complete game, like us, like Miami, like Pitt. All beatable but all losable, 50/50.

Werent people saying the same thing last year about UVA?

It took a damn miracle for that to not happen, and this year they are better and we are worse. And the game is at their place.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Nothing subjective about your statement at all. Can we agree that between now and then that improvement can happen and that this team can make strides in a positive direction? Also, so what if it it's away, have they ever had an intimidating home field advantage?

Our running game is awful, that's undebatable but can we agree that the wr strength is in the offense? Turnovers have been worse than last year, but can you please share data where we are worst than last year? Thank you

Can you present data that shows we are better than last year?

2018: ODU-49 VT-35
2019: ODU-17 VT-31

Gobble Till You Wobble

Just after you made this post, you made a post about what if UVA lost their QB and their best WRs, justifying they may not be that good, or the program isn't as healthy.

I hope the irony of comparing this ODU team to last years - having lost a bunch of players and trying to judge the health of VT's program - isn't lost on you.

My main point was that we didn't lose a game to ODU again, so thats improvement. I believe going from losing to a team one year, to beating them the next year is an improved stat.

But for arguments sake and because you just like to crap on optimism, I'll bite. ODU was a terrible team last year, went 4-8 and 2-6 in conference, and beat us with their former walk-on backup quarterback playing. I think after watching them play this year and last year, they are generally the same level team. We lost to them last year and beat them this year, so improvement.

As for comparing that to my UVA comment, guys on here like to say Fuente put a bandaid on his situation at Tech his first year by bringing in a JuCo quarterback. I personally believe Bronco did the same thing. I believe Perkins is at least 4 wins above replacement for them and they are a below average team without him. I don't believe Bronco is recruiting at a high enough level to replace the talent he is losing after this year. Could i be wrong? Yes. But i'm just waiting to judge the trajectory of that program until the lifesaving JuCo quarterback that he didn't have to develop is gone to do so.

Gobble Till You Wobble

I'm not 'crapping on optimism.' I'm calling out when you're making the exact same argument in one place to say why we're on the rise one place, and use the same logic to claim UVA isn't, in another. It's nonsensical.

Much like if you're going to shit on UVA because

But i'm just waiting to judge the trajectory of that program until lifesaving the JuCo quarterback that he didn't have to develop is gone to do so.

you should probably discount the "Fuente had a 10 win season" praises because we had a 'lifesaving JUCO QB' that our staff didn't have to develop, as well.

Just looking for consistency.

A. Should have included the /s after that last UVA comment but i thought you'd pick up on it. That was more of a jab at everyone who says Fuente shouldn't get credit for the Evan's season because he "didn't develop him".

B. But the 2 comments aren't the same. Thats the part you aren't taking into account. We have seen ODU this year and last year so that's not a hypothetical evaluation. They seem to be around the same level of a team as they were last year with an improvement at the quarterback position. Since we can actually compare their 2 teams because we've seen them play, we can mark our improvement by comparing our outcomes against them.

C. If Bronco follows up this season with Perkins, with a 9 win season with his next quarterback, then yes there is reason to believe he's turned around the program at UVA. My whole point is, we'll really figure out the trajectory of UVA next season when they lose a TON of production and have one of their guys at QB. Bronco should still get credit for the success under Perkins, but we'll see where the program is headed for sure.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Sure, you can argue improvement and I'll give that to you. But the problem is that the improvements seem to be only on defense. At best this offense is exactly the same as last year. The lack of improvement offensively is a big concern. Especially when you look ahead to the future and realize Bud is leaving and the uncertainty that means defensively. There's just as good an argument that any improvements we see this year will be completely erased next year with a new DC in charge

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I'm nowhere close to saying there's been vast improvement and we are definitely not close to where we need to be, but i just don't think we suck as much as we did last year. Thats all i was trying to say.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Okay well I can agree to that. I don't think we suck as much as we did last year either. I'm still concerned about the offense though. I'm encouraged by Fuente hiring Kill. That shows me that, at the very least, he's aware that this team's not as good as it should be. I applaud him for swallowing pride and reaching out for help. I'm cautiously optimistic that this may yeild positive change in the future

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

This basically means that our defense is better (which, of course it is because of Bud) and our offense is worse (which is problematic because our offense was pretty bad in 2018 too)

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

1. 3.7 ypc -- including 2 games against ODU and Furman
2. 9 Turnovers on Offense.
3. Punt return Average - 2.75 yds.
4. 10 sacks allowed again, 2/3 games against non-P5 teams
5. Among the worst in D-I for total penalties and Penalty yds/game.

What among this would you expect to improve when we play ACC opponents?

Alright, I've been drinking and am on my phone:
Total defense: 330 yds/gm (2018: 438 yds/gm)
First downs allowed: 16.3/gm (2018: 20.3)
Third down converstion: 52%( 2018: 37.3%)
Opp 3rd down converstion: 37.5% (2018: 38.76%)
Sacks/gm: 3.33( 2018: 1.85)
Long passing plays: 12th in country
Opp punt returns: zero this game and lower on avg than last year.

I don't disagree with your data points, they are glaring data points and cringe worthy but you can't blanket statement say we are worse than last year. In some areas we are better, some we are worse.

And to answer your question, what can we improve on? Penalities. We have a lot of freshmen playing and the penalities they committed like false starts had nothing to do with level of competition.

3. Do you think playing ACC teams is going to make Punt return average worse than negative? 1 return against anybody will be enough to push this over zero.

2. & 5. Self-inflicted penalties and turnovers won't go away, but there's no reason these can't be improved upon, even in ACC play.

1. & 4. While I wouldn't typically look for improvement against tougher competition, in yard/rush and sacks, youth is not insignificant in either of these.

We seemed to have landed on at least two, possibly three freshmen on the OL in our early season shuffling. It's quite possible that even if the freshman don't play exclusively, they're driving competition amongst the linemen just to see the field. I don't think we've seen the last of Dsanzi, unless he simply doesn't feel interested in playing going forward.

Similarly, we're still going to have a rotation at RB (McClease is way beyond King at blocking), but I think it's pretty hard to ignore another freshman, King as our best runner. And he's getting over 5 yards a carry. If he gets hurt though, it's gonna show.
...
In brief, yes it's very reasonable to think 5 of our ugliest statistics will improve, even with minimal improvement and with tougher competition ahead.

We played FURMAN today. A team with 63 Scholarships. Nearly to a draw. Our numbers should be OUTSTANDING at this point.

If you think we should be touting our Sacks at this point you're not watching the games. If you watch the DE play, you know we aren't creating any consistent pressure at all.

Both the Punt and KR have been abhorrent not only this year, but for most all of 2018 as well. In 2+ years we have yet to settle on a reliable and effective Punt Returner. Hazelton struggled badly in that role last year.

3.7 YPC is actually an IMPROVEMENT. We averaged 2.3 YPC vs. BC. That same BC team gave up 7.3 YPC to Kansas! UNC, Miami, ND, Pitt, Wake, and UVA all appear to have DL as good (most better) than BC, who replaced nearly their entire 2018 starting DL this season. I would not be shocked at all if we end up with a sub-3.5 YPC average for the season.

Now come on.

Did you invent a straw man that was satisfied with our play against Furman & lauded our sack numbers?

Because that person frankly doesn't exist.

We're all frustrated. It was 8 hours after the game at that point, and it looked like you were just pissing yourself off with your own straw man on that last reply. That's not healthy!

You asked if any of our most egregious numbers would improve; I took a stab "Yeah, law of averages; probably". LouisianaHokie even dug up last season's numbers and, damn; some are already better (yikes).

Inventing what others think is a nasty habit (unless you're a mercenary or a sniper, I guess).

Sacks/gm: 3.33( 2018: 1.85)

This was one of the Stats presented as a sign that we are better than last year.

By the end of the year, that 3.3 will be as bad and very possibly worse than last year's 1.85.

The simple point I was trying to make is 2/3 games this season have been against low-level competition. Its silly to expect that they will get better vs. better opponents, especially if you actually watch the performance on the field.

As for the rest of your rambling "straw man" post..i don't really know how to respond.

The fact is that beating Furman by 7 points is a damn embarrassment and the on-field play and stats point to a poorly coached team that isn't getting better. If you can make a sensible argument that struggling to beat Furman and ODU bodes well for success in the ACC, I'd love to hear it. "Law of averages," ain't it.

Also just checked cfbstats this morning and we are 26th in the country in giving up the LEAST penalty yards per game so not all doom and gloom.

their place Lane North

FTFY

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

No matter how lukewarm the coastal may be, most of the teams in the coastal are much better than Furman

You can add Florida State and UVA last night to the list. Both teams limped in at the end with tons of mental errors.

It' still only week 3 and I'm glad we get 13 days to prepare and get healthy cause we're gonna need it!

I don't get to watch much football these days, due to my career choice. It seems like a good thing, with how this program looks right now.

I want to believe Fuente has the answers. I really do.

VT '10, Born & Raised in the 804.
Rockin the Bakken.
β€œRight turn, Clyde.”

A win feels like a loss when the team does everything in its power to blow the game.
Crap special teams (50/50 again on FG, KO returns to the 11, etc) - check
False start penalties - check
Jump offsides on 4th down - check
...
This is a fanbase which is used to the team not self-destructing. VT football is protect the ball, play good D, and dominate on special teams; this team is not doing that at all.

Yup. As I've said the past few weeks, this is a team
Completely lacking in identity. I dunno what we do well. I don't know what the coaches even *want* us to do well in. We're just listless

The kicker we let transfer due to not giving him a scholarship hit the longest FG in Penn State history today...

...and our long this year is 27 yards.

We put the K in Kwality

Hit longer than that today didn't he?

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

You're right...35.

We put the K in Kwality

Please, let's not try and sugarcoat the team during the 2000s. It was guaranteed that at some point in the season while facing one of the worse teams on the schedule that we would turn into the "Chokies" and blow the season. It may not be as bad as it is now, but I knew that every season held at least one game where the team would self-destruct and ruin an otherwise great season.

"D played well"

Man, I quit the hard stuff when I graduated

I been here since day 0.

You know even if some of us are divided on how this team is doing. I still love y'all

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

Garbage.gif

(add if applicable) /s

As happy as I am to see the win (I didnt watch, I had to work, so maybe I'm completely off here), I'm still waiting on "the defense wont have to hold everyone to 17 points anymore".

Again, I was working and didnt get to watch yet, but just seeing the score is a little worrisome...

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

FREE THE "STICK IT IN" CHANT!!!

Man I remember watching from the East Stands in Fuente's first year, knowing that the only thing that helps us back from greatness the past decade was competant offense.

Then this Jerod guy the new coaches found is on the rolling over defenders, Bucky and Isaiah are performing like NFL caliber players. We are putting up like 40,50, 60 points in some games (remember that Carolina home game?).

Then the near miss in the ACCCG. I was so excited for the future of VT football.

Can't believe that was just 3 years ago. Feels like a different program.

Let's Go...

I gave you a leg because I remember feeling this way as well. But I seriously never saw "Bucky performing like an NFL caliber player."

Is it basketball season yet?

Man, I feel you. I was sure we were taking the next step. If Evans stays for another year I think things would be a lot different right now. But it is what it is. Just gotta hope either Fuente figures it out (seems unlikely) or the next guy does

For what it's worth,

Oklahoma beating UCLA 41-14, under 7mins in the 4th quarter, QB-1 still in the game driving for a TD.

Clemson beating Syracuse 27-6, 4th quarter, QB-1 still in the game scoring TDs.

Playing games is where QBs get their experience and learn from mistakes. I'd prefer getting HH game experience and letting him throw and actually run the offense, but I understand that the best way for a QB to work out his problems is by playing. Willis is the guy unless he gets hurt or totally melts down. Sticking with him gives the team the best chance to win games. I think I remember writing something similar last year before JJ got injured. No jinxes.

I don't really want my rSenior QB still gaining experience and learning from mistakes. Sure, to an extent you want that in all players no matter the age, but Willis is who is who he is and he is not changing.

plus: we dominated the 2nd half, 21-3
minus: OL + QB situation feels like 20067/8 but with no 5-star Tyrod trying to redshirt

Tyrod wasn't here yet in 2006. Just a friendly reminder.

Think Peach Bowl meltdown.

Leonard. Duh.

fixed, thanks!

I want to be positive because I'm usually negative so here goes.

I think those two drives to start the 3rd gave a glimpse of what our offense could be. Those drives had plays that were really well blocked and had some nice RPO decisions from Willis for the first time ever. King looks like the best RB we've had since David Wilson.

The defense seems to be figuring things out. The secondary seemed to always be right where they needed to be and we handled the option and mobile/accurate QB way way WAY better than I thought we were going to.

We are the youngest team in FBS. I went through most of our rosters from 95 - 2010 and every one had an overwhelming number of starters being juniors and seniors. In fact I remember a big theory for why we couldnt recruit well was because we wouldnt play freshmen at all. This team is stacked with freshmen. When those freshmen arent 5 star recruits, it's going to take a few years in the weight room and with experience before they become reliable players. I don't think our team will be really good until most of these starters today are juniors and seniors. I do really hope that we get someone like Torrian to take over for Bud because a switch of the defensive system will take at least 4 or 5 years to show results. I just can't handle these kinds of years anymore.

Remember when people would complain about our 9/10 win seasons? That thought hit me today as I was thinking about how we're going to make it to bowl eligible and beat UVa this year.

Man, I love these players. I just hope the transfer portal doesn't sweep them away. Must be hard being in their shoes with so many fans saying such negative things about them and this team. I'm sure it's not what they signed up for. What's that old saying, if you can't love me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best.

Hokie fan | W&M grad

This team is not that bad, and as much as we hate it when Fuente says it - most of their on-field issues are about execution. I've seen other VT teams do more with less talent-wise.

VT's defense is based on executing a system, not having the best athletes/players. I've seen Brett Warren, Purnell Strudivant, Lyndell Gibson, Jeron Gouveia Winslow, Stephen Friday, Jack Tyler, Stephan Virgil, Dorian Porch, Chris Drager, Barquell Rivers, Tyrel Wilson, Tariq Edwards, etc. all step-in and play a big role in some very good defenses. We have enough talent across the defense, just not any consistency in execution. What if Becton keeps contain and has 1-2 sacks? Ashby is a perfect example of a classic VT player who is not a prototype athlete but is a BEAST at executing his role.

Don't know what to make of the offense yet in terms of identity, but the talent is there. With King in the mix , the young o-line getting more experience, and Hazelton back - there is hope for development. We aren't too far removed from rolling out Willie Byrn, Demitri Knowles, Michael Holmes, CJ Carroll, Josh Stanford, Calvin Kline, etc. as starters and I didn't hear the same level of negativity and hopelessness during that recent history. Why? Because VT had a top 15 defense that kept them in games so we just accepted that Willie Byrn was our leading receiver.

The reality is that nobody has any actual sense of what's going to happen in the coming weeks. UMD losing to Temple is a perfect example of that. Does blowing out Howard mean anything now?

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

Ok sweet. So we have a team that can't execute. Seems like a pretty big issue to me lol.

Execution is an issue that can be fixed and improve within a game or season. Having inferior talent cannot, and we don't have that problem.

Good teams get upset when they don't execute. MSU, UMD, etc. are examples this week. Should Pitt compete with PSU on talent? No, but they executed a game plan. Will they next week, who knows?

Execution is about consistency, not about capacity in the case of VT.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

It's weird that in the first half of your comment you are praising VT players that aren't "prototypical" athletes that still have huge impacts. But then you use Willie Byrn as a negative.

Danny Coale and Jarret Boykin would be examples of non-prototypical players who outplay their natural talent. Not hating on Willie Byrn, but he was the only option. Turner, Hazelton, Robinson, Grimsley, Patterson, etc. have no excuse talent-wise.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

The team is significantly worse than the sum of its parts, which is why we should all be concerned. When that happens, you've got coaching, motivation, and development issues.

Let's have a game with zero turnovers and see if that's still true.

Who is on the field for VT that is clearly an inferior player right now? I'm baffled by this idea that we don't have the talent to compete in an awful Coastal based on 3-games with terrible execution.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

You understand you're argument is my point? Our team is much more talented than the end product on the field is showing. There is no reason we should be down 14-3 to Furman at half, or beating Furman or ODU by only 7. We have much more talented rosters. We have a coaching and development issues. Our OL shouldn't be bullied by a 5'9", 255lb DLman from Furman, yet it looked like our line was on skates at times. We're not going to be able to 'out talent' even the bad ACC teams we play, because we're really not that talented across the board, which is why I'm wary of the bowl streak this year.

The 'let's have a game with zero turnovers,' like you said, is also representative of execution. If our execution sucks and continues to suck, that's on coaches. A Sr QB who can't hit a wide open receiver without throwing an INT doesn't speak to well to the QB development of our QB Whisperer staff. Also, having 3 or 4 false starts in a home game against inferior competition is embarrassing.

You point out that we have a development/coaching issue which is fine and certainly up for debate, but I dont think pointing to the oline is a good starting point, some of those guys are true freshmen who have not been on campus longer than 6 months who have played less than 4 collegiate level football games.

We don't have the same argument. I think the team is talented just not executing. You start by saying our team is "much more talented" than the product on the field and end by saying "we're really not that talented." Which one is it?

Execution is not solely on the coaches. Bud Foster knows how to coach. His players are not executing to standard - likely for a variety of reasons - but not because of his ability to coach or motivate. Also, just because players are not executing in the first three games of the season does not mean they can't improve. The idea that performance and/or capabilities are static is insane, and not throwing INTs or having false starts are not monumental issues to positively change.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

I said we're more talented than ODU and Furman - definitely more talented than beating them by 7.

We're not executing well, which I do think is on the coaches, as they're not getting the most out of their team, be it pure on-field execution or player development.

I also said we won't have the luxury to 'out talent' (this is where I said we're not talented enough) to beat our ACC slate playing like we've played so far.

I do expect the OL to get better just because they will be playing larger players. Some of these guys last couple weeks were perhaps too mobile and light. Although another problem seems to be the inability to pick up blitzes etc. when you have protect on and 2wrs running and a lb has a straight shot, you have to wonder if all this position switching etc was being reasonably managed. Unf coaches watch tape, esp that prik from duke. Hope this ol is ready. We badly need some increased productivity out of the run game and/or the WRs deeper (not dunker) game.

I think my biggest frustration is lack of moving the ball down field. How many pass attempts were greater than 10 yards? Paging French..

VT is currently 20th in the nation in long passing plays FYI...so far for the year we have 35 passing plays that went 10+ yds per cfbstats.

Seemed like zero after the INT. I'm guessing we got spooked and figured the only way to blow that game was to continue turning it over. Our identity has become "afraid to mess up" from the top down (Willis may be an exception but I still think he spends more time trying not to mess up than trying to make a play). You don't even have to fumble to get benched for fumbling.

The biggest frustration is the offensive line, Willis, and the scheme.

The lack of effort from the offense in the first half was galling, making the same mistakes as last year points to coaching.

Booing Willis is awful and classless. He may be limited as a player, but never cheer for anyone to get hurt. Bad karma.

Thematically, the most worrisome trend is Cornelsen seems overmatched at this level, the offensive line coaching appears to be substandard, and talent evaluation / development doesn't seem great.

Thematically, the most worrisome trend is Cornelsen seems overmatched at this level, the offensive line coaching appears to be substandard, and talent evaluation / development doesn't seem great.

A good time to remind everyone that Corn didn't even have the full reigns to the offense at Memphis, and hasn't shown at any level he's capable of calling games, recruiting, or developing players at a top 25-caliber program. You don't have a recent college grad run a branch of the company, do you?

A good time to remind everyone that Corn didn't even have the full reigns to the offense at Memphis

Do you have any actual evidence/source to support this? I've seen a bunch of posters say this, but no one has shared an actual source that discusses how responsibilities were divided at Memphis.

In this podcast episode (from 42:35 through 46:30), Fuente talks about his relationship with Corny, and mentions that he (Fuente) was doing the playcalling for the first three years at Memphis, and Corny started owning playcalling as of the 2015 season.

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Darrell Dickey

Darrell Dickey

Darrell Dickey Now this last link also has Corny as the co-offensive coordinator, however its known that Dickey did the play calling (and apparently much, much more than Corny).

Is it basketball season yet?

however its known that Dickey did the play calling (and apparently much, much more than Corny).

How do we know this? None of these links say which OC owned playcalling; they just say that Corny was the QB coach/OC and Dickey was rb Coach/OC. If anything, this makes me reaffirms my understanding that Corny was the playcaller (because the playcalling typically (not always) goes through the QB coach).

While being interviewed in the podcast I linked above, Fuente clearly explained that he called plays for the first 3 years at Memphis, and Corney started calling them the final season there. Do you think Fuente is lying?

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You will probably not find a breakdown of EXACTLY who called what plays and when.

This is one of those proof is in the pudding situations.

Dickey continued to field successful offenses at Memphis and now has elevated to Texas A&M O.C.

Corn is coordinating an offense that put up 3 pts on Furman in 30 minutes. The best adjective to describe his offense is "disjointed."

Do you really need more evidence of who was more responsible for Memphis' offensive success?

If we're judging the quality of a coach based on how a team/staff performs in his absence, then we could also point out that Memphis's offense is doing fine without Dickey.

My personal opinion is that Fuente & co. are not recruiting good enough talent (especially at the QB and RB position) relative to the competition. I don't think that hiring Dickey over Corny would have fixed that issue. The offense was fine with a QB like Jerod, and would've been better if that team had a well rounded runningback.

There's always something left to be desired with a playcaller, but Cornelson's play calling is lower on my list of Fuente complaints. I'm far more concerned with recruiting and player development. Perhaps Dickey could've helped in that regard. Perhaps not.

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Dickey is only not at Memphis because he got Promoted.

What do you think are the chances that anyone is looking to hire Corny away from us?? Particularly a guy like Jimbo Fisher? Jimbo knows a bit about offense...he probably wouldn't hire Corny if we floated his salary.

And does not some responsibly for player development land on the OC? Its the least Corny could do, since he's an absolute ZERO in recruiting.

I don't recall making the argument that having Dickey at VT would make everything better, but in a program with multiple glaring issues, Corny is the biggest one.

My personal opinion is that Fuente & co. are not recruiting good enough talent (especially at the QB and RB position) relative to the competition.

You're kind of losing me here. Fuente has recruited pretty darn well on the offensive side of the ball with the exception of the RB position only. We have three 4* QB's on the roster currently. The issue might be partially related to youth, but it is also definitely related to development and scheme.

Is it basketball season yet?

To add, Fuente has recruited heavily on the offensive side to the detriment of the defensive recruiting. I might be convinced that this is okay if our offense could score 40+ ppg but they're not remotely close to that so our recruiting strategy looks pretty terrible at this stage. Wait and see, I guess, but based on the last few years the outlook is grim IMO

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

To add, Fuente has recruited heavily on the offensive side to the detriment of the defensive recruiting.

Provide any evidence of this. The most frustrating thing about TKP these days is that I think everyone actually agrees the program isn't where it needs to be, but so many posts are stuck on fabricated narratives and meaningless comments (QB guru and defense won't have to win every game have become two of the worst).

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Its pretty much as meaningless to demand "evidence" of something when you know well it doesn't exist.

Its not like there is a long-lost interview where Fuente says "I hate defense, I only want to recruit offensive guys."

But based on how the Recruiting has been over his tenure, it is obvious that there are glaring holes in Defensive Recruiting, much more so than Offense.

Take CB and DT as examples. In the '16, '17, '19 classes, we signed 1 CB, how does that ever make sense???
For DT, in the '17, '18 classes we took 1 DT (both now off the team)....again, how does this make sense???

So while Fuente's main focus may not be identifying and directly recruiting Defensive players, he certainly is responsible for managing the members of Staff that do. And he certainly isn't doing a stellar job of that. The Roster tells you that---that's your evidence.

Bud Foster and Charley Wiles had been at Virginia Tech for nearly 30 years when Fuente was hired. You're going to tell me it's more on Fuente that we whiffed on every DL prospect rather than the coaches who had continuity on staff and were recruiting for the same defensive system in the same recruiting footprint as always?

Nothing changed for them- they should have already identified top targets and had solid relationships with them. How could anyone honestly think Fuente demanded that we miss on the top 10+ prospects on our target board so Foster/Wiles would be stuck with no option other than signing J'Bril Glaze? It's completely ludicrous to believe that.

If we could have landed multiple of our top targets at DL, of course Fuente would have signed them. Instead we whiffed on every top prospect at the position for 3 years and took a few fliers because of the dire situation. It shouldn't be shocking that those guys didn't work out because they were way down the target board in the first place but that has nothing to do with Fuente willfully undermining recruiting for the defense.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Its one thing to whiff on a DL prospect, its an entirely different story to not sign one at all. I think the numbers suggest what was stated above, thought I'm certain the staff isn't doing this intentionally.

Is it basketball season yet?

I still disagree with that conclusion. We signed the best DT prospects we could get commitments from and they were well down the target list. They lasted a matter of months (or weeks even) and never played a down for VT. If we had gotten even one higher rated recruit and didn't pursue additional players it would be one thing but it seems fairly clear we had no option but to reach for players as it was. I fail to see how it would have helped to sign more guys even farther down the target board, especially considering the abundant criticism of the Dean and Glaze signings as it was.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

It's also about allocation of resources.

We spent a significant amount of resources going after K.J. Henry in '18..it was real nice to be included in the convo. Until he signed with Clemson just like everyone expected in the first place.

It is the HC job to say to the staff, go after KJ, but you need make sure you have a good 2nd option when he doesn't come here. Meanwhile, we have let guys like Basham go to WF who literally played in our backyard. Kid is 6'5" and 265....you wouldn't rather have him playing DE here than converted LBs?

Ultimately, the "misses" are on the staff that was doing the recruiting, but a portion of the accountability has to go to the Head Coach.

defense won't have to win every game

I haven't heard this narrative before. Fuente did say that the defense will no longer have to win games for us any more, whether he meant every single game or not could be up for discussion. But in the end, that is a narrative Fuente put out there.

Is it basketball season yet?

I believe what Fuente said was that Foster wouldn't have to worry about the defense being perfect anymore. The implication was that the previous offense was worthless and the new offense would produce at a level to take pressure off the defense. Sounds great! But 4 years later the reality is that the offense has failed to produce anything significantly better than past iterations. Offense just doesn't seem to be possible in Blacksburg. Everyone who tries to make it work makes it look really fucking hard

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

This narrative drives me insane because it has morphed into something it was never intended to be. People are taking that quote, which was publicly made by Bud Foster, not Fuente, as if it was a condition of employment written into Fuente's contract, scribed onto stone tablets and carried to the top of McAfee Knob that the offense would now carry the team. It's similar to if a coach was asked what his goal is on offense and he said, "to score a touchdown on every possession" and then fans repeatedly bring that sound bite up years later as justification for why the coach should be fired when the offense doesn't actually score a touchdown on every possession.

The point was that Fuente wanted to strive for the team to be more balanced. That hasn't gone as planned and Fuente has repeatedly said that the offense isn't performing at the level he expects it to be, but if he only cared about the offense performing better than the defense, Caleb Farley would still be on offense. Instead I believe Fuente cares about the best interest of the team and doing what it takes to win football games, because at the end of the day, does anyone really care about which side of the ball played better if we win the game?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Maybe you're the one writing a narrative that doesn't really exist? Seems to me like what you're saying is a bit more of a stretch.

In any event, I think we both agree that the offense is an overwhelming disappointment and Fuente was supposed to fix that.

Is it basketball season yet?

If we go one game week without someone bringing up that Fuente told Foster the defense wouldn't have to be perfect any more or that the staff are self-proclaimed QB whisperers (or whatever variation on those), I'll donate $50 to the Hokie Club.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Do actual on-field results count as evidence?

Corn was Co-OC at Memphis for one season with Darrell Dickey in '15. Memphis was 35th in yards per play that year (6.15). After he left for VT, the Memphis O improved under Dickey (6.25 in '16, 7.39 in '17). Dickey is now at aTm and was 23rd in ypp in '18.

In Corns only solo OC experience (D II), he averaged 5.0 ypp, which would rank around 110th in FBS.

That's not even touching recruiting or player development...

We are talking 4 years of this coaching staff on Offense:

Since the beginning there have been two consistencies:
1. Inability to Run the ball
From day one, the only running this OC has generated is from the QB if he can read the D-End or if the Running back makes some great moves. Case in Point Keshawn King, that was all on him yesterday. When he went out injured McLease couldn't replicate the same meaning there is no plan, no setup, no blocking scheme, our guys are gaining maybe a yard or two. If you watched even the SEC where they are hat-on-hat, the o-line gets a push and the running back gets at least 2 yards. Ok so you say well we are not so good at that but we can do a few other things like Jet sweeps, or may use them to setup other plays but yesterday CornFU didn't even go to those until late in the game when King was out. On any footballing program, it should not be taking 4 years to establish a run game.

2. Turnovers
Even the 10 win season started with turnovers from Liberty, to Tennessee to Georgia Tech and this isn't just on the QB, its happening even on special teams. Its been part of Fuente since the beginning, its unfathomable that the issue has not been rectified regardless of who the QB is.

Lastly the injury bug has bitten us again, Garbutt, Hazleton and Holston would have made solid contributions. All I can say is this, if we play like we did against Furman in the 1st half going up against ACC competition, we will not have the same chance to come back. At this point I'm so frustrated I don't even wanna get into the play calling issues.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

When [King] went out injured, McLease couldn't replicate the same, meaning there is no plan, no setup, no blocking scheme, our guys are gaining maybe a yard or two

Or maybe that King is just a much better back than McLease? To me this is a quality of player issue, meaning that Fuente is either failing to scout/recruit players who fit his scheme, or failing to develop those players once they get on campus. I don't see how this is a scheme issue?

Even the 10 win season started with turnovers from Liberty, to Tennessee to Georgia Tech and this isn't just on the QB, its happening even on special teams. Its been part of Fuente since the beginning, its unfathomable that the issue has not been rectified regardless of who the QB is.

I'm willing to forgive the Liberty and Tennessee games since players were learning a completely new system. Before making the claim that turnovers are a coaching issue, I'd want to see some stats comparing VT's turnovers from Beamer's last 4 years coaching, Fuente's 4 years at Memphis, and Fuente's 4 years at VT.

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3) A Quarterback who, with 4 years of P5 college football experience, cannot read his progression beyond one WR.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Per cfbstats, turnover margin over the last 6 years, Fuente years from 2016:

2014: -4
2015: +4
2016: -1 (71st in country)
2017: +5 (30th)
2018: +3 (46th)
2019: -6th (124th)

So yes, this year is awful but its not like Fuente lead teams have not had good years as well.

In :RE to your second point, I've got a serious question that I was pondering yesterday right after Tre coughed up the ball. Obviously, our turnover margin under Fuente has not been good, but other than fundamental ball security and strength, how do we limit these as a team? I'm honestly just genuinely curious. Or rather, why have these been such an issue with the current administration? What's crazy is that one of the first things I loved about Fuente after the LU game in '16 was that he preached ball security. If you watch the post game presser, you think he was going to bench Jerod for the rest of the season for being loose with the ball. Also, this past game the commentators talked about how he likes to see all skill players come up after the play with the ball in their hands to show how much they value it (really cool in theory).

Anyways, I'm really curious. Besides the obvious answers (and maybe it just is obvious), how do we as a team get this issue fixed across the board?

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

I dont think every turnover is equal. You can show good ball security techniques as a running back. Fumbles still gonna happen though. I didn't take the Turner bang bang play as something Fuente blew a gasket over. Hopefully though, we can stop throwing interceptions when we have wide open receivers running free, that would be nice.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

No, I totally agree they're not equal, which is why I'm just so curious if it's just been abysmal luck in regards to the volume of turnovers or if there's some more fundamental issue that can be be solved as a team for those out there who have played and can shed light on if there's a secret to limiting them across the board or not other than just technique and strength. It's been the one thing I can't point to and say, "Yep, this is ______'s fault this keeps happening" unlike other gaps we have as a team.

"What kind of person would throw away a perfectly good dog?"

We know Bud is leaving after this season. Would it be prudent for Fuente to go ahead and swap out his OC as well. Make wholesale changes and start fresh? Buys him a few years, IMO. Otherwise, if this team is worse next year and the only difference is that Bud is gone I just don't see how keeping Fuente is defensible. But change the offensive staff too and I think the fans give him a couple extra years.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Maybe someone like Andrew Luck for OC. Look at what Kellen Moore is doing with the cowboys. Why not give a guy who thrived in the type of offense VT would love to have a chance to coach an offense here? Luck just retired but not because he's tired of football. I'm sure he'd love the chance to stay involved with the sport in a capacity that isn't so damaging to his body. And I think he would be a great recruiter too! Hell, with the state of the offense and what it's been for 20 years I say let's roll the dice and give a guy like Luck a shot to make a name for himself. We can't get much worse. If nothing else the change might generate enough excitement to provide an uptick in recruiting which wouldn't be anything less than a positive aspect of an otherwise pretty glum situation

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

We can have mediocre play, have an up and down season and MEH all Fall long...

I don't care how bad we look, nothing looks as bad as a Ranked, 7.5 point favorite team, at home; storming the field against an FSU team that's been abysmal for 3 seasons.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I was watching the game with a friend. My reaction to them storming the field: "good grief, act like you've been there before..."

My friend's response: "BUT THEY HAVENT!"

He's not wrong I guess, at least not in the last couple of decades. But to be the higher ranked team and favored to win, it seems like maybe rushing the field was a bit much.

I hope French highlights some of the bad coaching/OL play I saw. Several times they rushed 2-3 and got a sack or pressure. Once they rushed 3, we kept 8 in protection and gave up a sack (and not a coverage sack, but an unblocked guy right up the middle sack).

Something is weird with the running game as well. Too many times our OL just stops and lolls around (often looking behind them watching the tackle be made). Fuente preaches the RBs have to make the unblocked defender miss...but it seems like 2-3 are unblocked.

We put the K in Kwality

I agree that the OL play was beyond atrocious this week. My dilemma is that there aren't many plays in the playbook when the blocking is that bad and it's difficult to evaluate how the rest of the offense is performing. I certainly don't think it's all good otherwise but the OL has to be better or the offense is completely hamstrung.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I have no reasoning for this after what we have seen in the first three games of the season, but I wouldn't be surprised if we play very well (maybe even win) against Duke because it's not a super inferior team and it's a Friday night game in Lane.

Typical Hokie football to play more inspired for a night game. I think it's just in player's blood to be more pumped up for night games, and as a result, we see more effort and intensity vs. what we have seen in all of our day games.

Then again, I could be dead wrong and we get blown out lmfao

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

The only Friday night college football game I support is on Thanksgiving weekend. Friday nights are for high school football.

Is it basketball season yet?

My 2019 Season Challenge: only comment with Star Wars memes.

If you see these characters, they represent specific people (as of Oct. 2):

Palpatine (Fuente) || Vader (Hooker) (probationary)

Instead of airplanes people are now throwing turkey legs....vt oldrow just posted that to their story. Confident that could qualify as assualt.

(add if applicable) /s

Things have been pretty bad since the start of last season so it's nice to see something (even if the opponent is a weak one) that's positive.

1. The defense is improving. Some of the individual players are improving game by game. (Which shouldn't surprise us, we know our coaches on that side of the ball can develop players)

2. Farley specifically seems to be putting it together.

3. The interior D line keeps improving and it looks like the eval on some of these guys were good. (The D ends are low level but hopefully we can make it through the season with what we have there)

4. King is the real deal. New it from his high school film. But it is translating to college. We needed him to work out in a big way and it looks like he will deliver.

5. The players didn't give up when I've seen so many college football teams give up in similar situations in the past. The wheels could come off on a team in this position but it seems like these guys have the pride to fight.

And I've seen a lot of comments on different sites say that nothing counts because it was Furman but I disagree. I haven't seen us do things like run against anyone, so doing it against Furman is still movement in the right direction.

Will it be a long season? Yes. If I were Fuente I'd actually spend a lot of time talking the team up and expanding on the good we saw. This team could continue to develop over the course of the season in to something serviceable that gives a base to build from.

I think Farley ends up playing on Sundays.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

If you or I were Fuente we would spend a lot of time building the team up and expanding on the positives. I really would like to know how much he does this during practice and meetings. Because the impression I get, is that he is always focused on the negatives and areas that need improvement. I could be wrong, because I'm not at practice or in meetings. But I hope he finds the right balance in this area. From what I can tell, I worry he is too negative and that he is sucking the fun and the swagger right out of the team. Hopefully I am way off on this one.

It's funny you mention how Fuente appears from a distance because it's more important than what some fans will admit. I spoke to one of the older players on the current team a few months ago and I asked him what he thought of Fuente in general and what he thought about all the commotion of the portal, at the time and he said something like:

"When I got here Fuente was pretty cold and disconnected from the players. He didn't used to be around us much other than practices. Since the team meeting he shows up more often to things like us lifting weights in the morning and is more energetic"

So yeah, Fuente knows his demeanor was an issue and has at least attempted to improve it behind the scenes. For what it's worth, out of all the players I've spoken to on the current teams, I don't remember a single purely negative remark about Fuente.

In the Grimsley article about his mom, he said that Fuente is a lot like him, "doesn't show emotions", I think is how he phrased it.

The first half positives meeting from the furman game would last about 20 seconds. But yeah fluff them.. that's why they can't block Furman and can't stay onsides...the coaches don't fluff them enough.

I agree with you about King. That kid can flat out run and it seems that he's able to read the defense which is something that McClease has had issues with his entire time at VT. That said, King DESPERATELY needs to put on some weight which is not something that he's gonna be able to do during the season. He seems small to me, but when I look him up against David Wilson I see that he's 2" taller but 20# lighter. You could tell just during this game vs. Furman that he won't be able to last an entire game.

All that said, watching him run is awesome.

Here is the scariest thing to me; the coaches finally brought in a high caliber back, but....he's the only one on the roster so he hasn't developed collegiate level durability and we used him in short yardage situations this past weekend. That's a recipe to lose him to injury quickly.

The biggest thing the coaches could do for him is to find someone, anyone, who can take the ball in 3rd and 3 yards, or shorter, type situations. We cannot have him pounding the ball straight up the gut into loaded boxes.

I don't care if we move someone to running back like JR Walker just to block and run short yardage but using King for those situations is a disaster.

I went to this game; likely my only one of the year. My Week 3 thoughts:

1) PA announcer seems to have the voice for it, but lacks personality. He was Okay, but the 3rd Dooowwwwwwnnnnnn is atrocious. He needs to stop doing that. It really was as bad as everyone said. He did mess up a couple of times saying the wrong name and the wrong yardage.

2) Uninspiring play from the offense in the 1st half. Really shocking to see how uninspired they looked. They looked extremely slow and it felt like they did not want to be there. It was good to see how they came out in the 3rd quarter, but they have to bring that every play of the game.

3) The defense had their lapses but did seem to be playing with some swagger. I noticed Dax get completely brushed aside on an attempted arm tackle. I also noticed him with a solid tackle in the hole on one play, and he gave zero ground to the ball carrier. Interested to see what French and others thought of his overall performance after a poor showing against ODU. Conner caught my attention multiple times throughout the game, even prior to his forced fumble. The defense is trending up, but I think there will still be several games where they get burned for an entire half and are unable to make adjustments.

4) RUN BLOCKING: French has mentioned his concern over the technique Vice appears to be teaching. I noticed a play on Saturday, where Willis handed the ball off (do not remember who the back was), and the entire OL took a step backwards at the snap and then tried to take a step forward and run block. There was no way they were going to effectively run block after stepping backwards in a pass protection posture. What is the objective here? Is it an RPO and the OL is pass blocking because they're afraid of the ineligible receiver downfield call if Willis decides to throw? Are they trying to fake pass protection before run blocking, thinking that will cause some of the DL to crash too far up field?

5) The orange smoke during Enter Sandman did make its way up section 2 in the west stands. It was uncomfortable to breathe that in and took several minutes to dissipate.

I have a lot of other thoughts, but most of them are nothing new and have already been discussed above.

While not the most enjoyable game result, it was a good day. Tailgating and Enter Sandman with my 3.5 yo son and my Dad.

The orange smoke made me think "since when did we WANT to copy the U?"

#TeamPeanutButter - because your cakes, pies, cookies, and ice creams are better with it!

I'd like to beat our FCS opponents by 63 please.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

No. Need 2 more field goals

Recruit Prosim

Good thoughts all around! Also fellow section 2 guy here

My wife and kids got the section 2 free tickets Saturday. I had the one section 12 ticket.

They were in the second row, right above the tunnel. Talk about some happy, excited, and awestruck kids! I was jealous of those seats.

Yep, they are great seats! Glad your kids enjoyed it.

One huge improvement is that Team Turkey Bacon looks to be reconciling with Team Traditional Bacon.

Leonard. Duh.

All I can say is, I hope Keshawn King is eating the real bacon.

I think the Duke game will be a better indication of where this team is going compared to the Furman game for the following reasons:
- its a home game following a bye
-its against a rebuilding but well coached Duke team
-Losing would drop VT to 0-2 in conference, so motivation to should not be an issue

Even after watching Furman game, I remain optimistic and believe VT can end the season a lot better than it started. However, a loss to Duke will firmly put Fuente and his staff on the hot seat.

The general game atmosphere was off Saturday.

- The entrance is too much now, between the excessively long lead in, the smoke, Enter Sandman seems like has an extra bar or two thrown in to drag it out, same with the singing section. It just feels forced now.
- Maybe I'm just getting crotchety, but I HATE sitting down during the game but am almost forced to in the East stands because everyone else is sitting down and I don't want to be that d-bag. Maybe it's apathy, maybe it's "cupcake" games and the season ticket holders sell their tickets.
- Students leaving before halftime is rage inducing. I'm onboard with Saban on this...if you can't stay the whole game, then you don't deserve a ticket, I don't care who we're playing or what the score is.
- The new announcer is working out some kinks, but that 3rd down shit has to go.
- Whoever is running the display needs some new material. The clips of our players screaming in front of a green screen or rocking the ball or whatever the hell they're doing is cringe-worthy. ESPECIALLY when you're down by 14 at the half against an FCS team.

Agree, the announcer is okay except that "3rd down" announcement. I think the entrance would be more acceptable when we're playing well but it seems a little silly when your play isn't intimidating.
Are they allowed to mic the band? It's college football - I'd rather hear the band than piped in music.

The did it a few years ago. It's terrible. The sound delay makes the whole experience intolerable. You hear the band, then you hear the band over the PA. It gets muddied up and hard to hear.

Makes sense. They'd probably have to have speakers projecting out right near the band to work.

Only acceptable change for the Enter Sandman entrance I want are the new LED type of lights that can be dramatically dimmed then pushed back to 100% without warming up.

Drop the lights during Enter Sandman during a night game with the cell phone app flashing your light... I think that makes the ESPN camera crew cream their pants a little more than they already do for our intro during big time games.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

our intro during big time games

this makes sense in theory...

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you don't think we'll ever have a prime time televised game again?

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

isn't the Duke game prime time?

just was an interesting take that VT would be in a "big time" game in the near future... it'll happen again, but the prospect isn't great for this year.

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