Alright so who is our next coach?

Might as well talk about the future because there is no hope in the present with this bunch.

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#HotTakes

Pump the brakes man

Virginia Tech School of Architecture Class of 2014
Fan of Hokies, Ravens, NY Giants, Orioles

I don't know. When our own site has a post wondering what the identity of this team is, after four years of this regime, getting its own guys and all that, it's not unfair to bring it up.

It's almost like you forgot that we lost to Boise and JMU back to back in 2010 then stormed back. Let the season play out. This whole board threw a shit fit when there were reports that the team wanted to give up last year and now you give up on them when they are fighting? Go take this to twitter.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

The reports of last year are half the reason for feeling like that.

And 2010 we had a QB who is still playing in the NFL. There ain't no David Wilson's or Ryan Williams' on this team either. The defense was actually a Bud Foster defense. This is just a cheap copy. We had a hall of fame coach that had a history of turning teams around. That wasn't the only Beamer team to start 0-2 and then run the table.
What kind of season do y'all think BC or ODU are gonna have? Not good ones.

I wouldn't call one other season, 1995, a history. It had more seasons that went off the rails at the end than he did turning around. I am not trying to knock Beamer, but putting him on a pedal stool isn't good.

I think BC is going to have an good season. They have 3 year starters at RB, QB, and WR. They probably have the 2nd best RB in the ACC. They have a nice looking Frosh WR. Their back up RB can play. Addazio's lines play physical and they could be 2nd in Atlantic. And VT threw the game away.

Pedal stool?

"I'll put a quote here to distract you from my inane comment."-Me

Let's Go

HOKIES

We all have our blind spots.

Click here to destroy wall.

And if you really think this is going to be a successful season, then you are delusional.

I was literally told that in 2010. Take the negativity to twitter.

Outspoken team cake advocate. Hates terrapins. Resident Macho Man Gif Poster. Distant cousin to Dork Magic. Frequently misspells words.

Exactly. The benefit of hindsight is amazing. 2010 the sky was falling with Frank. Skepticism was everywhere on Tyrod's nfl abilities, VT continued to struggle in big regular season games etc. I didn't agree with that then and I don't agree with this sentiment now.

The kids found a way through heart, leadership and effort. The BC loss in hindsight won't look as bad and will be viewed as one that slipped away as they are gonna be good.

The kids found a way through heart, leadership and effort

so you don't think these kids are displaying that? because from everything ive seen so far that is the MAIN thing they are displaying. they maybe making football mistakes but its damn sure not for lack of any of those 3 things. freshman and sophomores have stepped into leadership roles, everyone is busting their a$$ and not taking plays off we just have a lot of guys who are physically not at the same level as the competition they are playing against right now because of youth, inexperience, whatever it maybe. not making excuses for our play at times but to sight those 3 things is way of target for why this team cant/ couldn't do the same thing as the 2010 team. specially to make that prediction after week 2.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

Not what I said. I said the 2010 did it, but I didn't say this team couldn't perform in that manner over the course of the season.

To be clear, I agree with you in that this team is demonstrating the qualities of a team. They will get better as the season goes along and this quality makes me cheer even harder for their success.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would think those years are comparable. That JMU loss was SHOCKING. If we lost to JMU now, guess what? It would not be shocking. I would be, "Oh VT being upset again, nothing new here." It was shocking in 2010 because we were supposed to be really good. And we ended up being really good. And we were really good for years before that. We have been mediocre for the better part of a decade now and terrible last year. Let's use some context before comparing any ounce of similarity and extrapolating from it.

Can we even call those kinds of losses upsets any more?

It actually wasn't THAT shocking. Should we have lost? No. But even back then we always found a way to lose games we shouldn't have and had been starting to play down to competition post 2005.

Reach for Excellence!

VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

Losing games you should win, and losing to an FCS team are different animals in my opinion.

Where's the beef?

Yes, but right after a heartbreaking loss to Boise

Reach for Excellence!

VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

Exactly. We played a very good Boise St team and lost in a game we should have won (kept snapping the ball with 15 to 20 seconds on the play clock. If we ran it all the way down, Boise gets the ball back with like 30 seconds left to drive the length of the field.). It was Monday game. Saturday we played JMU. It's a short week and the team was already bummed after the close loss and maybe not quite fully recovered physically due to the short week. Still shouldn't have happened, but you can sorta see how it did. That's not comparable today. From the scenarios to our team itself (2010 was a much more talented roster), there's really nothing in common.

Game of the Year of the Day, 2010: #3 Boise State 33, #10 Virginia Tech 30

Boise who?

The 2010 roster was an unholy mix of overachieving local prospects, overlooked players from talent-rich areas, and diamonds in the rough from what you might call 'exotic' locales. There were All-Americans and/or draft picks in nearly every unit, and they were coached by a staff of future head coaches and coordinators

So yea a great game with a sad loss but nothing near the same comparison

Not yet dude

There are a handful of fans here who think they can coach.

I CAN COACH! ... oh you mean football, nevermind.

Normally I would downvote a post like this, but at this point I'm with you. This team is soft and shows very little promise on both sides of the ball. We are getting handled by teams with far inferior talent.

The unfortunate truth is that we cannot afford to fire Fuente with his massive buyout. It would set the program farther back than keeping him for a few more seasons.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

Legit question to spark discussion;

Why can't we just fire him anyway and deal with the fallout? Like is it possible to just run the department in the red for a handful of years dealing with the 15 mil buyout plus whatever you spend for a new staff (assuming that move would put you in the red. I figure it would but I don't know their books)? Basically, you're operating with debt with the idea that eventually you'll pay it off and come out whole on the other side.

Football is our biggest revenue generator and its what gets people to donate. If we're bad, the longer we're bad the less money we're going to have coming in. It's possible you could actually hurt yourself more in the long run by waiting than if you'd just take the hit now. If that fan interest turns to apathy, it could take a lot longer to get it back if you're waiting to fire him until the buyout is manageable. And I think apathy is a VERY strong possibility if a month or two from now we're struggling to make a bowl game again and the sentiment is Fuente won't be going anywhere

So is it reasonably possible to take a short term hit to stave off a long term hurt?

(BTW, this is a theoretical about firing a coach in our situation. Not a "Fuente sucks" or "Fuente just needs more time" post. It's intended to get people to think thru the process more and to understand it, not about the merits of Fuente himself)

Attendance was announced at 10K under capacity today. If that holds, revenue is going to be a big problem.

My wife and I turned it off today. Did some yard work, went to lunch. Checked at the end and saw we won in typical boring lackluster fashion. Glad I tuned it out

I dont even know what to say to this. Help me understand how you can be happy you didn't watch a game but still have enough ambition to come on a fan site and type about it.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

I didn't write that, but I can relate to it. VT football has been fun to follow, but we're not ..... good ... any more. And we're not even entertaining at being not good. Don't get me wrong - we've had a checkered past of "shoulda/coulda/woulda, but didn't" and/or losses to what should be our lessers.

The difference between then and now, increasingly? We're not that enjoyable to watch - either for offense or defense or special teams, or any combo thereof. And nowadays? Those "lessers" are starting feel more like peers. Or our betters.

So combine all of THAT with a 3+ hour chunk of a day lost - from the user name, you can surmise I umpire baseball - it makes it a lot easier to be out doing something I enjoy instead. (Don't have ACCN on U-verse, and it might come as a shock to note that VT games are *not* in high-demand here in Texas. So to follow a game, has a good chance of having to sit in front of or near a radio.)

The difference between then and now, increasingly? We're not that enjoyable to watch

This is tied, I think, to the perceived lack of emotion from the team. When this team wasn't very good but still fun to watch I think it was because the team played with emotion and swagger. Almost a "fake it til you make it" attitude. And that's fun to watch even if you don't always win. What we're seeing now just seems dry, stale and uninspiring. Unemotional. No swagger. And even when we win, it's not much fun to watch. Bring back the swagger, I say

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Glad I tuned it out

This is slightly different than being too busy. I completely understand demanding schedules. My son had a game at noon. I caught the second half live at a restaurant and rewatched in entirety on DVR later in the day. And dont get me wrong, anybody has the right to tune the team out until the product is better. My comment was based on being happy to "tune it out" but still willing to peruse a fan site and post comments on being glad they did. The two things don't seem to jive. But hey, to each his/her own. I was making more of an observation than criticism.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

Yep, I agree. There isnt really even a player I am excited to watch or see develop. Maybe some of these young receivers. I think James Mitchell is probably our best all around player on offense, but this staff burned his shirt last year. So that just pisses me off everytime I see him make a play.

Let me comment on what I am feeling. It has just been the quality of play has been so poor. An the team seems to lack the enthusiasm and will to win. Maybe it's just me but watching has been tolerating all of this mistakes with few of the game making great plays.

Let me comment on how I am feeling. I feel frustrated when I watch the team play. There is poor execution and sloppy play. The team just does not seem to have the enthusiasm to both win and have fun. Couple that with few game making nice plays, and it is just frustrating

I'm with you.

I am done with the Fuente era

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

For the sake of argument, who would you want to hire? If fuente gets fired after going, say, 6-6, this wouldn't be a very attractive job for most coaches, let alone a guy we would want/need

Virginia Tech School of Architecture Class of 2014
Fan of Hokies, Ravens, NY Giants, Orioles

That's a good question. We are in a lose lose situation. The Fuente hire was supposed to work out and he had a chance of being the guy who would stick around. It's gonna be hard to find a good coach who will also not bolt at the first taste of success.

At what point do we start to think Shane Beamer has enough experience to take on the head coaching job?

There are people who thought he was the best option 4 years ago.

For some people on this board? Never

Recruit Prosim

#BringLanetoLane

I think its supposed to be #bringshanetolane or did I miss something here.

twitter @smithey_daniel
head scout BSP scouting specializing in north florida/ southern GA highschool football scouting

I think know he's talking about Lane Kiffin. Which is almost as good of a joke as #BringShanetoLane would be.

#bringBANEtoLANE

Let's Go

HOKIES

He's not gonna last long at this rate but we also aren't firing him tomorrow

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

At this point, I'm not sure he shouldn't be fired tonight

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

There's just too much money left on the table at this point to can Fuente.

But the writing is certainly 99.5% on the wall at this point.

Correct. Whit says he is 100% behind Fuente. There is a reason for that. He has no choice financially. So even if he is telling himself privately OMG I hired this guy, you will never hear that publicly. That is until we lose to UVA, have another losing season and then see the fan base howl.

We should hire ODU's coach.

If you fire fuente at the end of the season, what is the complete buyout? I haven't seen the contract but am told it's very fuente friendly

West Virginian by birth, Hokie by choice

I believe it's in the neighborhood of $15 million. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

"For those who have passed, for those to come, reach for excellence."

15 mil buyout is nothing.

Just tell Whit to spread it around on multiple credit cards. Also, maybe start going by his middle name and not to answer his phone for any numbers that aren't friends and family

$15 million right now, and decreases by $2.5 million every December 15, which is too late in the cycle to fire a Head Coach. Try to pull a stunt like that and we'll end up in another James Johnson situation.

Luke Fickell.

Whit's connection to Cinci + strong recruiter.

Only drawback is Whit wants an offensive minded guy.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

He coached under Tressel and Myer. He could blend the Beamer Offense with a Spread and I think that would be a good combo.

What's
Important
Now

  • He's an Ohio guy, grew up in Columbus, played at anOSU, so I don't see him leaving the midwest.
  • He started coaching at Cincy in 2017; his tenure didn't overlap with Whit's
  • Regarding recruiting - He was a great recruiter as an assistant at OSU, but recruiting at OSU is a lot easier than recruiting at VT. His recruiting since being an HC at Cincy has been mediocre, worse than VT. Not saying he can't recruit, but given that the bulk of his experience is at either one of the 5 easiest programs to recruit at or one of the more difficult schools to recruit at, I'm not sure how this would translate at VT.
  • Finally, he's 21-17 as a head coach. He went 6-7 as an interm coach at OSU, 4-8 at his first season at CIncy, and 11-2 in his second season.

None of this is to say that he would be a bad hire, but he's hardly a home run hire. Personally, I'd rather we make a stellar DC hire and keep Fuente at the helm than replace Fuente with Luke Fickell, who has no ties to the ACC, Midatlantic, or the south.

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He started coaching at Cincy in 2017; his tenure didn't overlap with Whit's

Right but Whit still has plenty of connections at UC to assist with back-grounding him

Regarding recruiting - He was a great recruiter as an assistant at OSU, but recruiting at OSU is a lot easier than recruiting at VT.

Yes, but IMO VT should have always been focused on a guy who exceeds at recruiting. We've never been a school that has focused enough on/been good enough at recruiting. That needs to be fixed when Fuente is shown the door.

Agreed that it could be more OSU being a blue blood but I want a big time school's OC/DC who is known as a recruiter as our next hire.

Not sure that the lack of connections in VA is a good enough reason to disqualify him. Get a HC who is a great recruiter and bring in assistants with VA/mid-Atlantic, Southern connections. Talent pool of HCs with VA connections will be too small.

Finally, he's 21-17 as a head coach. He went 6-7 as an interm coach at OSU, 4-8 at his first season at CIncy, and 11-2 in his second season.

We'll see how this year goes, but 11-2 at UC is pretty good.

Not saying he's a 'home run' but with the damage Fuente is doing to VT's rep we won't be able to make a home run hire.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

VT should have always been focused on a guy who exceeds at recruiting. We've never been a school that has focused enough on/been good enough at recruiting.

That's kind of my point - His track record doesn't prove that he'll be able to recruit at a school like VT, which has limited resources, and is far more remote than UC or OSU. All I'm saying is that these two school are so different from VT, that I'm not confident he could recruit well at VT.

We'll see how this year goes, but 11-2 at UC is pretty good.

Brian Kelley and Butch Jones both had similar or better records at UC. What Fuente did at Memphis was far more impressive.

with the damage Fuente is doing to VT's rep we won't be able to make a home run hire.

As long as we can pay, we can make a quality hire. I'm more concerned with putting together a strong defensive staff this offseason.

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Lol, I remember last year when people would post "but Fuente lost the locker room! /s" trying to defend Fuente. Then that article comes out this summer. Some people are just unwilling to smell the shit that slaps them in the face. They are unwaivering optimists and won't hesitate to ignore your "noise".

Fuente could be good. I thought he was a great hire. But something is going very wrong and I don't know what it is.

Whats going wrong at this point?
-Offense- check
-Defense-check
-Recruiting-check
-Pretty much everything offseason-check

It might just be possible that Fuente just isn't that good of a Coach.

Check!

But something is going very wrong and I don't know what it is.

Huge pet peeve of mine - When you make change for the sake of change, you either get lucky, or (more likely) your organization falls apart. If I'm Whit, I'm doing the following analysis:

  1. Identifying the 3-5 surface level issues that our challenging our staff (play calling, recruiting, etc)
  2. Deep dive on each of those. For example, if recruiting is an issue, why? Are our coaches not personable enough to build relationships? Do they not have the funding to travel and visit recruits to build relationships? Do they not have the bandwidth on staff to recruit a large enough pool of players? Are our bagmen slacking?
  3. Once we identify the underlying issues, it's time to come up with a variety of solutions; new head coach, more support staff, new coordinator(s), new bagmen, etc.
  4. Each solution should be analyzed and all risks/benefits identified. From here, Whit can make an informed decision, not an emotional one.

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Haha wow y'all kill me

Football is a lot like life, and you're going to have disappointments. The issue is how you come back from them.

~ Frank Beamer
.

Wonder if Babcock regrets not promoting Bud

Are you joking?

What we're seeing right now is a result of things that were happening one year ago. How Fuente managed his program ended up creating a shit culture and a ton of people left. Neither this week's, nor last week's results has anything to do with coaching or preparing the team. Few seniors, shit tons of freshman, and a lot of critical "bridge" players who said "FUCK THIS PLACE" led us to where we are now.

I thought the D played well and the offense moved the ball consistently. The spread was 28, we won by 14. We're young and inexperienced so expect some painful viewing experiences and move on. Anything else is pointless.

"How you doin', Randy?"

I don't entirely agree with that.

We were in for a significant culture change no matter what.

We're a young team. Hopefully a lot of that nonsense is behind us. I think the fans are about a year behind.

We have some talent on the team, and I do think they'll get better. I'm more worried about the defense than I am the offense. The defense had some good stops, but I saw some missed tackles, and some situations where it seemed that they were quite slow or couldn't put pressure on.

Watch the Defense play..we have far to many guys who are slow, undersized, or both.

Becoming an upperclassman does not fix that.

Yeah, I'm not understanding what's happening on Defense.

The problem is we don't have a disruptive DL. If we had a Tim Settle type guy or even an explosive DE, we'd be even better. If we paired that with our LB play this season, it'd be amazing. However, we knew the DL would be a weakness this year. I'm just hoping that someone on the DL becomes noticeably disruptive each week.

Let's Go

HOKIES

This is starting to be across the board and I said this last season. I can't think of a game since the 2016 season other than the Florida State game last year in which we are physically dominant. Just whipping people up and down the field. The DL and the OL are not blowing people off the ball and this is why we're not running the ball well. Like that crap down on the goal line last year with Willis and Peoples. Take that ball and run it down their throat. It's not that hard. Even in the Camping world bowl when we were trying to run the option on the two yard line and then turn it over...Get up under center and run the ball down their throat. On the defensive line, like we're used to having undersized Defensive linemen but they were strong and weren't necessarily getting blown off the ball by the likes of ODU..

I'll say this about the D... Unlike the offense, there are actually adjustments taking place, there is growth from last season. The issue on D is a talent issue, not a coaching issue. The opposite is true with the offense. We have an extremely talented WR, TE, and OL, but we still cannot move the ball consistently (I disagree with the poster above about that).

Is it basketball season yet?

We moved the ball pretty consistently today. And last week.

So I guess I'm not following the logic.

Don't get me wrong, there's plenty to fix. But the team is young, and I can see how some improvement would go a long way.

We moved the ball yes. Consistently, ehhh. And this is all relative to the competition we play.

Is it basketball season yet?

I think Boston College is pretty decent this year.

I think so as well. They may be an 8-9 win team in the tougher division. It was a tough way to start the season.

Is it basketball season yet?

Brother, were in for a culture change. The problem and the crux is that this got so bad that the coach had to meet with the team hat-in-hand after a bunch of starters and contributors turned in their resignations and THEN had to go re-tool how he was running things because people thought the place sucked. Period.

That is not natural. That is not expected. That is not acceptable. It fucked this team, and it will be a slow climb back IF and ONLY if Justin Fuente can correct his shit. He created the problem, and he is the only one who can be the antidote. Everybody bitching about the week to week play has missed the point entirely. That's it. End of discussion!

Can't wait for that presser baby! haha.

"How you doin', Randy?"

Probably a dumb question but what constitutes a culture change from Beamer to Fuente. Is one more demanding than the other?

I've heard of a guy - he's a strong recruiter and an assistant head coach in a successful program. Maybe you've heard of him?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shane_Beamer

You're welcome. Or not, I don't care.

I think he'll still be available in two years.

So why not finish out the Fuente experiment?

I've always been a proponent of letting Fuente build our program. The five year plan is the standard bearer of what a new coach can do.

I'm not suggesting that we bail on the current staff and default back to someone named Beamer.

But, at this point I am differentiating between the 'thus-far-unappealing' Fuente era against the 'next-best-thing', which could come from a familiar coach or could be a totally different leadership team.

I'm not committing to changing leadership but I definitely am suggesting that in year 4 the option starts to be on the table.

Shane was meh as a recruiter at VT.

We can't help if the players he brought here didn't pan out, but he definitely wasn't a meh recruiter, he brought us some very highly rated recruits, Holland Fisher, Joel Caleb, the infamous Drew Harris, Shai McKenzie, Yosh Nijman, Raymon Minor, Deon Clarke, CJ Reavis, Adonis Alexander; and that's not even including some of the even more star studded players he recruited and landed during his tenures with other schools. Shane can recruit, and he will certainly be a heck of a lot better bridging the gap in the 757. Also why is it not okay to make him head coach? He's already the assistant head coach for Oklahoma currently. They're pretty solid..

Go for it

Wiki? Really? I saw no mention of a boxing glove on a stick.

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

This is great. We need more of this in game. Maybe even play by play.

Let's fire Fuente and let Bud coach the remainder of the season.

We put the K in Kwality

Hahahaha. Cool thread, bro.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

This thread is akin to the cancers in the locker room from last year.

Here is the deal - Vt as an institution will take time to build a successful program. Moving around coaches isn't the answer unless the sky is falling. This team is young and will show promise and be inconsistent.

Let's see how they improve as the year goes along. Thus far, I'm impressed with the team attitude especially when challenges happen. They are engaged, encouraging each other, playing hard and making adjustments.

That's the mark of a young team with potential. Let's see how the potential evolves. Either way this discussion is worthless and shows a lack of perspective - no matter your opinion it ain't happening for a myriad of reasons, not enough time, young team, financial, etc.

Let's give Fuente 2 more years. In his defense (no pun intended), he never really got control of the whole team. I would imagine it would be tough to become CEO of a company and then only get control over half of the company. For Bud, I'm sure it's even tougher to continue to care after some dude steals the job that you deserve and have poured your heart and soul into for 20+ years.

It's best to let Bud retire and give Fuente a chance on his own. Or, we should have just given Bud a chance to begin with. It was foolish to think the 2 could co-exist.

The part that Fuente DOES have control over has been the offense. And the offense has gone downhill.

Offense is way better than it was before Fuente arrived.

Slow your roll.

I'm willing to be patient and see how the season plays, but Fuente has got to answer the recruiting issues. If he doesn't make some major adjustments in his staff to get us back up to where we were and higher then I don't see this getting better.

Overheard as Duke assistant coaches took elevator down from press box: Guys, they stopped the run with a three-man front. - David Teel Tweet 2018

Fuente has got to answer the recruiting issues. If he doesn't make some major adjustments in his staff to get us back up to where we were and higher then I don't see this getting better.

Well, he is replacing half his staff this offseason so....

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When there is enough smoke, there has to be a fire. And another example of that is his screaming at Willis after his fumble today.

Screaming at your QB, the only offensive spark in your game, the only reason you are barely hanging on against a G5 team that you're supposed to house by 4 TDs. He gets a head injury, is slow to get up, and you're screaming at him.

This solidifies to me why Fuente is not the long-term solution for this program. It will never not be hilarious to me how much he seems to hate every player, past or present, that has ever worn the uniform.

And don't get me started on the commentary during the game that the reason why doesn't have a lead back is that one "just hasn't emerged" in his four years of being here. If only there was a recruiting process to make sure that wasn't the case.

Do you know what assuming does? That's right....

Fuente directly addressed this issue in his post game... He said he was trying to get Willis to "go down" since he was clearly injured. That Willis thought he was talking about "going down on the play", but Fuente had to yell, because he was concerned about the injury and he wanted to make sure HH took the next snap.

Is it basketball season yet?

Has Fuente earned that benefit of the doubt? Will you take him at his word? Which was he more upset about, as a coach who has a reputation of not gelling with his players? The injury, or the turnover?

So you just want to write yout own narrative and not believe anything directly from the source?

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

Exactly. The answer is speculative. This was addressed and a non story. The attitudes here are abysmal, First, Fuente doesn't show enough emotion. Then he shows a little bit in a two second moment and suddenly it's too harsh.

I don't think Fuente has earned the right to be believed at face value given where this team is. He's a cagey, coach speak expert and the next time he falls on his sword about play calling or execution will be the first.

So you think he is a liar based on coach speak? Feels overly cynical. Frank was the master of coach speak - literally one of the greatest. It doesn't make either a liar. We can just agree to disagree.

Dabo screams at his guys when they do bone headed things.

"You know, it's funny; when you look at someone through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags." -

Will we be replacing all the staff next year. Foster is gone so how many of his staff will stay with the new DC and let's hope the oc is gone and how many of his people will get held over

Logged in to downvote this thread. I'm frustrated with the state of things as well. However, please be reminded like they said in the broadcast that we are something like having the 3rd most freshman in FBS. 18 years old aren't gonna be superstars.

Shit, we don't need superstars. We need slightly above average players.

Coming out of halftime, our OL was left to right:
SO
RS SO
FR
FR
RS FR

We are missing Hoyt and Hoffmann, among others. It obviously shows.

I'm not completely forgiving the staff for allowing this to happen, but damn. All programs have good times and bad times. If our bad times are only 2 seasons long, its not worth a complete overhaul.

If our bad times are only 2 seasons long

I'd say overall we have had about 7-8 years of bad times. This isn't 2 seasons. We had a great season in the midst of those years, but we are basically averaging 6 wins a season over that time. Just saying. Of course we made change in the middle luckily.

But we can't put those on the current HC and staff.

I do understand and somewhat agree with you, but who is the QB that's going to win a division or conference title? I don't believe they are in the program. We also can't recruit nor keep pass rushers healthy. Same with running backs.

Appreciate your positivity but it's not like other teams aren't playing under the same rules. Roster management, recruiting, and inspiring people to play for you are likely to blame for 2 years of *young* players. We're past the "but we're young" excuses.

Hurts me too man but we've fallen far from the apple tree.

sol-a-rex

Injuries, youth, it is always something. Didn't we have the youngest team just a few years ago? It never panned out.

How many wins are we going to have? We were favored by 4 tds after a loss and it was a competitive game til the very end. We win 3 or 4 games and you think the staff is doing a good job? Especially with everything else that has gone down the last few years. We lose to UVA and sit out bowl season and everything is peachy. There is no way we keep getting lucky to keep those two streaks alive.

Yes, we've been young for a while here. Screw vegas, 2 td's vs 4 td's it doesnt matter. I agree the team didn't look great and that's how it should be measured, but to be so nitpicky over how many multiple touchdowns we win by is not healthy. This year and last aren't going to have great results and watching games hurts a bit, but isn't that what makes the good years so much sweeter?

I'm signing off this site for a while. Some of us need to walk back from the ledge a bit and realize ugly wins over teams we should of blown out was our go to move during the Beamer years. Go Hokies

Gobble Till You Wobble

This year is different. Do you think we beat UVA and keep the bowl streak alive? No way.

Would love to take this bet. Are you doing this to enjoy some pot-stirring?

I mean it's not too far off a reach

The actual and predicted score difference and odds of winning each game are:

Miami 30%
UVA34%

/advanced-numbers-not-same-old-dominion

Let's just not play the games since the odds are in.

Perkins is going to carve this defense up if ODU's scrub of a QB could

I get the point, but 122 yards passing and a QBR of 39.9 isn't exactly "carving it up".

--
"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

ODU's scrub of a QB still managed to beat out a former 4* Michigan State transfer. It's hard keep up with when the recruiting stars matter and when they don't these days though.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

You are only spewing negativity. Take a break and come back later when you can have an actual discussion.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

It is also an essential ingredient for a young team looking to improve each week.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

Whit has already backed Fuente, there is not going to be a firing.

we need to brace for Bud's replacement. About 10 years ago there was talks that Wiles always wanted to be the D-coordinator after Bud was promoted to Head coach. Then there is a good VT Connection like Torian Gray.
Not too many guys from the group of five if you look at history over the last few years. For D-coordintor I Like Zach Arnett at San Diego State, Randy Shannon at UCF is doing a pretty good job too.

At FCS level, not really seeing any teams shutting down opposing offenses.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

very concerned about the running game and run defense

So we are still young this year? With 7 returning starters on offense and 9 on defense? What was the problem then last year?

I get frustrated at the different ways that people bend over to justify the actions of this coaching staff. Some will argue then that Fuente deserves another 3-4 years to ride this current group out given how young they perceive the team to be. Will they be young again next year too?

We are Young with some experience this year. That's a fact. It just depends on your perspective as to when that experience combined with age translates to results. Look at the two deep. Name another FBs school with 5 seniors or less.

Next year we will not be that young. However, this year you have a chance to watch a team improve as the year goes along. Defense is showing improvement at times - see jermaine Waller - he balled today and shut down Kumah.

We played 11 true freshmen yesterday.

So yeah, we're young. And some of that youth is pretty talented.

So while this process is more painful than we expected, there is some hope on the horizon.

I get that the team is young. I even think that's a valid excuse in ACC play, but our players are WAY more talented than ODU, unless all major recruiting services are way off on their ratings. To me the team being young doesn't fly against a team like ODU, this has to be on the coaching staff.

I sense a bit of a disconnect. First, we beat ODU. Second, inexperience is a detriment, even if you have superior talent. It takes some time to learn college football. Which is why I think we blow the doors off ODU next year, once those eleven true freshmen we played yesterday get some experience.

So here's the problem with that line of thinking--we were young (younger in-fact) last year and many of the major contributors are back--who has shown signs of major progress from last year?

The OL if anything looks worse. The DL has zero passrush. Tackling has been subpar. The Running Game is non-existent. Willis looks no better and we have two 4* QBs who apparently have not made enough progress to unseat a QB1 who has 5 turnovers in 2 games. Sure, there are occasional bright spots (essentially the WR), but if you are being honest and unbiased there is very little that suggests this team has made significant progress.

This suggest clearly to me that there are problems with Coaching--the "youth" and "locker room issues" are just distractors to avoid actually breaking down the product on the field, which has not progressed significantly, despite the "Storm" that was promised.

So the obvious question becomes exactly what do you expect to change between this year and next? And furthermore, very few here care about whether we "blow to doors" off of ODU next year....the fact that ODU is even a consideration on our schedule demonstrates just how incredibly far we are from competing even in the ACC.

There are a lot of opinions-stated-as-fact in your post that I disagree with.

we were young (younger in-fact) last year

Were we? How do you figure that? We're two games in. We played 11 true freshmen according to one stat I heard. According to the ACCN commentators, 52% of the overall roster are freshmen, third highest percentage in the NCAA, but I haven't seen that verified. But I do believe they're young, and that's fact, not opinion.

The OL if anything looks worse.

Does it? Depends on how you look at it. It's certainly looking poor on run plays, but Willis seems to have more time. And our first choice for center isn't eligible, and our second choice got injured. So it's understandable to me that there might be some adjustments still being made.

The DL has zero passrush. Tackling has been subpar.

OK, that I agree with. They were dragging yesterday. #46 chasing Smartt was downright embarrassing for a VT defense.

The Running Game is non-existent.

Well, not great Bob, but not non-existent. We did have that one nice drive with McClease. And King looks promising.

Willis looks no better

I'm not sure about all that. I saw him make some decent throws, and while it wasn't always pretty he got the job done. With, as you pointed out, a disappointing running game, so it's all on him.

We have no idea about the backup quarterbacks. All we know is that they haven't played yet. Doesn't mean they're not making progress. Fuente just isn't ready to put them on display just yet. All we have in that regard is a bunch of pissed-off fans making assumptions about it because they're ready to pull the plug on Willis. With very little run game, how many quarterbacks can carry a whole team? Let's just say it's a lot of pressure to put on someone, and I'm going to trust Fuente over fans on TKP or 247 about that.

And when I said we'd likely blow the doors off ODU last year, it wasn't because they're a particular consideration for next year, it's just because that's who we just played, so they're the reference point THIS WEEK.

My deepest apologies for not posting "Facts", you clearly posted a number of hard-hitting facts such as the ones below:

We did have that one nice drive with McClease. And King looks promising.

I saw him make some decent throws, and while it wasn't always pretty he got the job
done.

Depends on how you look at it. It's certainly looking poor on run plays, but Willis seems to have more time

Here are some facts:
-We average 2.8 ypc on Running plays...that is not good. On any level. And while there is no factual way to prove that the OL is the only cause of this, it is certainly HIGHLY SUGGESTIVE of a problem with run-blocking. From a Pass-blocking standpoint, I expect our QB to have a pretty clean pocket most of the day when playing ODU

-Through 2 games, our DL has 2 sacks (with Porcher, Hewitt, Griffin, Kendricks all with 0.5). Cornerbacks have 2 and Ashby has 1. We are getting no pressure, particularity from the DE position. That is also not good. On any level.

-Bill Connelly (kind of a respected guy in CFB) pointed out in his VT Preview that the Hokies were 11th in the Nation in Returning Production. Not really indicative of a team that should be using Youth and Inexperience as an excuse.

I'm sure you have any number of Ready-Made Excuses for all of the above, but there are some "Facts" for you.

Agreed 100%. He likes to take his opinions as if they are hardcore fact in all arguments he makes.

2.8ypc?? That's dreadful for a P5 program playing a low end G5 who's football program is barely 10 years old...

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

Well, I did say this about the OL:

It's certainly looking poor on run plays

So we actually agree on that.

And are you really still arguing that we're not a young team? I looked at Connelly's analysis. You should, too, if you're going to use his numbers in an argument. Because the returning production was mostly on defense, which was ranked #1, at 96%. Offense was ranked 77th, at 60%. Maybe I'm interpreting that incorrectly, and do feel free to correct me if I am, but this still supports the FACT that we're a young team overall, even if that averages out to 11th in returning production.

I get that people here are mad as hell and they're not going to take it any more. But then when I listen to what they're actually saying, it seems like it's not all that well considered.

I like Virginia Tech football. I really do. The realist in me says "Support the team". And this means supporting the current coaching staff, and see if they can get this figured out. Yanking coaches just before they'd have succeeded (or failed) just extends the process even more. Fuente will succeed or fail. But yanking the rug out from under him before he's managed to get his players on the field and in sync just makes no sense to me.

I understand your point. But the run game has gotten progressively worse year on year, and now I hear the same excuse: youth on OL. Fu has been here four years. This is enough time to mix and mesh youth and experience. And it hasn't happened.

I think that's a fair point.

Exactly. Its not better and Fuente cannot already can't attract a Blue Chip RB to the program..this certainly isn't helping.

And contining to massage the numbers around even more to try to frame an opinion that everything is working doesn't accomplish anything. We have 11th most production back of any team in the nation. No matter how you manipulate that data... you then cannot use youth as an excuse for your struggles. Period.

Fuente's in his fourth year and things are going backwards not forwards. You obviously are the type that needs to wait till everything burns to the ground to decide there's a problem.

Other of us would like to stop the fire early while there's still some Foundation to build on.

So you can stand there across the street, look the other way, pretend everything's okay, and yell "all is well"--- I'll go grab a bucket and call things like I see them on the field.

Let me clarify my position a little bit. If I saw any signs of the possibility of substantive changes in what Fuente's doing I would feel better about the situation.

My problem is the things he's doing don't seem to be getting results and I don't see any sign of him changing things.

The lack of fan access and media access is troubling, the offensive scheme appears to be very easily defended especially against ACC opponents, and roster management has been very inconsistent.

So, if I saw anything that led me to believe that he's ready to adapt, I would have a much easiwr time giving him the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, I see a guy who wants to run thanks autocratically, in the face of lots of data that suggests it's not working. I can't support that, its not good for the Program.

His comments last year in particular, about how Cornelsen had "broken records" in 2016 were very troubling to me. He gave no credit to the Catalyst for most of those records who was Jerod Evans. It made me understand why sometimes players may feel shortchanged by him.

That's probably the most reasonable post you've made in this thread.

Frankly, I've cared less about the "fan access" than many on here, but I don't live in Blacksburg.

And while I get (and share) the concern, I think we're in the 4th year of a 5 year process. I don't think the program was in as good a shape when Fuente arrived as people seem to think. And while we should be seeing some results by now, I think a big part of the problem is the defense, which Fuente never really had that much control of. Part of the fan base still seems to think Bud Foster should be head coach.

Seems to me that if you reset now, you'll never find out if Fuente can succeed here or not. If we give him the next year and a half, we'll know with certainty. Also, if we reset now we disrupt the process further, and extend the reset even in the best case scenario.

So I'm not rushing to make an assessment after our first or second game this year. I'd like to see how the season plays out. If the team doesn't show some significant improvement, his seat will be hot enough.

I would be okay with this if our running game had shown any signs of progress in any of the last 4 years. But, quite frankly, it hasn't. And that's really troubling because Fuente has even said that fixing the running game is a focus for his staff. If they have been focusing on it for 4 years and it hasn't improved at all why are we expecting anything to improve without drastic changes?

I like Fuente but he's ultimately responsible for delivering the offense he promised and that hasn't happened on his watch. I believe he brought the wrong co-oc from Memphis but he's too proud or too loyal, or both, to admit it and course correct. I don't think Cornelson is pulling his weight but if Fuente doesn't do something about it then at some point you have to cut the head off the snake. I don't know if that's necessary now but it's quickly approaching. Honestly if we only win 6 or 7 games this year, posting low score totals against ACC opponents, and Cornelson isn't fired by Fuente then I think Fuente needs to go

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I think that's a fair point.

Your definition of reasonable and mine are obviously different-- yours seems to involve only things that agree with your viewpoint.

I think you could make a very strong argument that cutting ties with a coach early has definite potential advantages--earlier access to the pool of potential replacements and a chance to boost Recruiting (and we could definitely use a boost at this point). One could easily argue that hanging on prevents this and actually slows down any Rebuilding process.

And my assessment of Fuente is not based on simply two games--its 2 years of offseason chaos, a dreadful on-field 2018 and seemingly little improvement into 2019. I think that's enough data to work on.

We will see how the season plays out. We'll get a particularly clear idea where we stand after playing Miami and UNC in October. UNC being another team that is hampered by "youth" where (7/11) Offensive starters are FR or SO--that youth is obviously plaguing them severely....lol

And are you really still arguing that we're not a young team?

There is a difference between youth and talent. Players being young doesn't immediately mean they'll get tremendously better. Guys like Hoyt and Hewitt are near the end of their careers and are only starting bc we need bodies. Both are backup-level players at best. Another year or 2 isn't going to do anything for them in terms of on-field performance. We have WRs who are good enough get us competing for an ACC championship and little else.

Match that with the fact that we've seen very little in terms of player development out of this staff, and you're putting a lot of eggs in the 'it's just a young team' basket.

I think we have a fair amount of youth, and talent. I think it's all an asset.

The lines are the one place where it's not so much of an asset. You need big, talented, experienced bodies there. It's clearly a challenge for the staff (and was long a challenge for Beamer's staff as well).

So what will your opinion be next year when we have more experienced guys across the board with a new defensive coordinator and a qb that will have very little real game experience? I'm not sure what Fuente is attempting to accomplish anymore.

When it comes to youth on both the OL and DL, it is a tough balance. You want to bring in the youth and have them mesh with juniors and seniors who know the system. So the recruiting has to be staged, based on needs in the coming years. Rightly or wrongly, this has not happened on the OL. All the established talent is gone, and virtually everyone is green. I must confess I have not had the time to delve into how and why this happened. But it is a big problem that won't be solved over night.

Is Returning Production an indication of coming success?

2019 college football returning production

1 Western Michigan
2 Tennessee
3 Texas State
4 Southern Miss
5 Rice
6 Florida International
7 Memphis
8 Kent State
9 Hawaii
10 Minnesota
11 Virginia Tech
12 Indiana
13 Florida State

It's generally an indication of year-over-year improvement, yes. Not every team with tons of returning production will get better, but most will.

I'll point out (again) that most of our returning production is on defense, where VT is rated #1. The offense is rated #77. Some how averages out to #11 overall, but we still have a really young team.

It's all on a bell curve. #77 is close to average, since there are 130 teams, so being #1 on defense means we're way ahead of the pack there, which drags it fairly significantly forward.

Unfortunately, the run game looked bad that against ODU....not gonna get any easier in ACC play. And Willis was lucky we were playing less talebted players. They dropped two picks, one being a potentially catastrophic pick 6. Better teams will probably make those plays. I think Willis is Willis at this point. Unlikely he changes much.

This is true.

Though the four picks in the BC game, I hope, were anomaly.

TOs to date. Us 0 them 6

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

BC had 1 turnover.

I'm just giving overall context. I'm not saying what should or shouldn't happen vs ODU.

Playing the young kids is an investment and a strategy. The key is to stick with it through adversity if you see progress in the aggregate

The team is young because Fuetne is having trouble keeping guys in the program and developing the older guys that he recruited. Why do we have Freshman and Sophomores all over the field when he's signed 4 recruiting classes? Why do we have a gutsy, but wildly inconsistent, non running, transfer QB on the (edit) starting after four years of recruiting and developing?

I get that the team is young. But is this going to be a thing with Fuente? Maybe his team is always going to be young.

Is it basketball season yet?

Exactly. It's not like we lost a bunch of seniors from a good team.

Perfect. Off season theatrics and players leaving is not a good sign.

This is his 4th season and we are two games in. That's not accurate. If you want to evaluate that for facts look at the 2014, 2015 recruiting classes and how much actual talent was there. It was stated when Frank left (and Frank knew it) that the young players in the program didn't all have ACC skill level, Let's see how 2016-2020 - and more specifically 2017, 2018 and 2019 develops over the next two years. Right now, we basically have a realistically incomplete analysis.

I'm just saying the reality is why are people panicking so much two games in. We have young talent and it if improves this ultimately isn't different than many of Frank's teams.

I see a lot of "it's just two games!" and LOL, no it isn't. It's been 2 offseasons, one season, and, yes, 2 games of extended train wreck

for everyone carrying the pitchforks and torches today, I have a couple of questions for you:

What if Fuente had done what most new coaches would do and chased Beamer's players immediately and tanked the program in year 1?

What if Fuente had come out and blamed the problems last year on the old coaching staff (like many new coaches do)?

By the way? Why did Fuente wait till almost all the players had left before he had the infamous team meeting?

What if this really is about age and maturity of our current players?

What if this thing does get rebuilt and turned around in the next two years?

What will you say then?

To me, Fuente has actually hurt himself in the short-term to preserve the program and what it stands for!

I'm sorry but my feelings are that a post like this ESPECIALLY at this stage of the team's development only serves as material for opposing coaches to recruit against us.

If he hasn't lost the team (and by all reports he has not), what does this Accomplish?

What would he have blamed on Frank's players? There was some talent on that first team and they had success.

Blame it on youth, but where is the evidence of a rebuild? We have no recruiting base. The 757 that we owned and got our best players on our best teams is all but lost. We've recruited highly reguarded QBs and have yet to see any development.
The lack of a pass rush or running game is getting really old and has gone on for far too long to blame it on youth. The blame has to fall on the coaching staff. You cannot win without sacking the QB and establishing a running game. Something we excelled at for years.

The 757 that we owned and got our best players on our best teams is all but lost.

When did we EVER own the 757? We certainly weren't in possession of it in the years before Fuente got here, so you can hardly blame him for that.

Fuente is certainly not having much success there. The 757 is our only chance at building a consistent, nationally relevant team. It's in our state and produces deep talent that can play anywhere in the country. Where did our two #1 overall picks come from? Who were our best players on our best teams and where did they come from? The Adibi's, Vince Hall, Tapp, D Hall, Chris Ellis, James Anderson, Tyrod Taylor, Jimmy Williams, Aaron Rouse, Kam Chancellor and that goes without naming Vick or Bruce. We haven't done much in Richmond either which has some players.

There is no way we assemble the kind of team from around the country, getting the scraps of others, to win consistently.

Not a single comment yet has answered the original question.

The obvious choice is Willie Taggert.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

If rather lose with Coach Fu than lose with Small William

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Perhaps it's time we start acting like a SEC school and get someone from the Saban coaching tree then...

Jeremy Pruitt, come on down!

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Willie's buyout is too high :)

Venables. We are losing our DC. This helps cover 2 bases because the man can bring in the defensive talent. If we want a big boy program we need to be willing to pay big boy $$.

VTMidge

I don't think we need a new coach, yet. But I like this response.

He's not leaving Clemson any time soon... His oldest son just started playing for him, and he has another who will be there in a few more years. If he did want to leave Clemson, he could probably go anywhere; I'm not even sure VT would be on his radar.

Twitter me

Venny ain't moving. He is well paid and has kids attending Clemson.

I don't think Fuente will be fired this year, nor do I think he should be. However, to answer the original question...

Based on the budget issues at VT, and based on the type of coach we need (someone who can find recruits, who can develop players, who can scheme really well, who can build culture), I'm a HUGE fan of Mike Houston. I got to see first hand what he was doing at JMU and it was impressive. That staff is a machine in every way, and they know how important culture is. Oh, and he happens to win everywhere he goes.

Is it basketball season yet?

Mike Houston has 2 games experience at the FBS level. ECU is his first time on a staff (in any capacity) that has 85 scholarships. Let's slow down here.

Twitter me

I hear you, but his trajectory is spot on. I happen to think that he will be the next UNC head whistle.

He knows recruiting, he knows how to establish culture, and he knows how to develop players. It's early for sure, but he's a rising star.

Is it basketball season yet?

Josh Jackson has a big day. Trevon Hill making plays in the backfield for the Canes. 2 starters of our opponent were former starters. Reminds me of when every team winning a game in NCAA tourney had former Hokies on it.
Hard to be successful when youve got 4 former starters playing for somebody else. Hill would make a big difference on this team.

2 starters of our opponent were former starters.

Our WR3s are putting up better numbers than Kumah, and Cunningham has more rushes this season than catches... as a TE.

Hard to be successful when youve got 4 former starters playing for somebody else. Hill would make a big difference on this team.

Our defensive weakness this year (through 2 games) is against the run. What exactly would Hill do?

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

What? Our weakness is 100% pass rush, which is currently non existent. I'm not sad Hill is gone but he would definitely improve our DL

Guess I just imagined we got 5 sacks and 7 QB hurries today while giving up 202 rush yards.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

Kumah would have been a starter here. So he's better than our "WR3", according to our coaching staff. And how many TDS did Cunningham have here? More than anybody else (receiving) on our team??

Hill would also be our best D lineman. We have zero depth at end. And he had 2 TFL tonight so he can do that much to play the run.

If Kumah were guaranteed to start here, why did he leave and go to a worse team?
Cunningham had 7 TDs as a Hokie in three years. Hazelton had 8 all by himself last year.

Hill very well might have been our best Dlineman this year, but he likely wouldn't have been the game changer you're trying to make him out to be.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

Who knows why he left. The program obviously had some issues last year. Kumah played pretty good. I don't think he left for playing time.

The point is all of this attrition has to have hurt the team. We are a better team with Hill on the field. Losing your best pass rusher and a starter at a position with little depth is not a minor loss. Losing Kumah and Cunningham probably not a huge loss at this point because we have some talent there but Kumah was still a player that would have made some plays for us. Depth of that quality is never a bad thing.
And what about Josh Jackson? I had my doubts about him being the answer like everybody else did, but what really happened here? He was the starter last year until he got hurt and then Willis took over? Willis has been around a C to C+ maybe. Jackson did play a pretty decent game against WVU and was not bad as a freshman. Well he's apparently lighting it up now. We probably beat BC with Jackson and we wouldn't be having this conversation. (Yet)

If Kumah were guaranteed to start here, why did he leave and go to a worse team?

Thank you. If there was one thing I felt good about during the game, it was that Kumah wasn't even the best receiver for ODU. He got a ton of burn in the first half, where he did little, then disappeared for a good portion of the second half when they started to make it interesting. He probably would have caught some balls for us this year if he had stayed, but I really don't understand the hand wringing over him leaving.

Hmm so you're saying those players were ACC quality when playing under Fuente but now they aren't very good playing for a CUSA team?

Careful because that almost suggests that maybe Fuente can actually coach.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

He's playing for a worse team (worse line, qb) against a supposed better team. In his second game with the team. If he were playing for us, a few years in the system, today vs ODU, yes i would expect him to have a better day in that scenario.

Trevon Hill had one tackle today.

Would he not be the best DE on our roster?

Sure, but he's more disruptive to his own team than the opponent.

Hokie fan | W&M grad

He impacted the box score in other ways. Like a significant offside penalty in the final minute of the game.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

The more salient point is something appears lacking between Fuente and his rapport for the players ...

The difference Hill would make would be poison in the well. He was dismissed from the team for a reason last year. Did you see him use the head of an opposing player to push himself up off the ground after a play during the Miami/Florida game? The dude is not really a dude at all. Kind of reminded me of the time Marcus Vick intentionally stepped leg of Louisville's defensive star Elvis Dumervil after the whistle. There's no place for poor sportsmanship in the Hokie Nation. Let's keep our eye on the ball here kids..... This is college athletics.

JP

I would not make the argument that Hill would make this team better, but here's a sobering thought about our DL.

Hill, if here, would be far and away our best Pass Rusher...he's now a reserve at Miami. Miami that is now 0-2.

I think that's where the disconnect comes with me. We have "youth" but we also have a severe lack of depth in certain areas. The 2017 and 2018 recruiting classes are where we should have built some depth at defensive line, and we did not. I'm not going to speak badly about players on the team, but suffice to say we whiffed on a lot of guys that would have been difference makers on the defensive line.

This happened under Fuente's leadership.

Hill and House Gaines are much better players than Belmar and whomever else is on the other side right now. Politics and drama aside. They are better. Belmar can't rush the passer or set the edge- against ODU. And Becton, Adams, etc. aren't there yet but they have to play because House got hurt and Hill is gone, etc, etc.

The batshit is even battyer this week.

Leonard. Duh.

Alright so who is our next coach?

Leonard. Duh.

The good side of being a fan: the broader community, dedication to a team, being represented in a positive light, knowing that progress is never linear and recognizing effort.

The bad side of being a fan: pettiness, being shortsighted, never being happy with the product, stirring up shit by dwelling on the negatives while discounting any progress made.

There is one simple question: Which side do you want to be on?

I hear what you're saying but this is a false dichotomy. It's possible to be a good fan and yet be unhappy with the product. I could just as easily say that the bad fans are the sunshine pumpers who stubbornly refuse to admit that anything is ever wrong. Or point out that it's possible to recognize effort while also believing that we're paying CJF $4m/yr for results, not effort. Or that people generally react poorly when someone tells them that they are bad fans for feeling the way they do.

Your call, but maybe just let people vent. At least they're still engaged enough to come here and do that. The far bigger problem is when people just quit caring and find their entertainment elsewhere.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

You misread. I said NEVER being happy with the product. There are many voices around here, and throughout our recent history, that constantly point out the negatives and demand changes, while ignoring positive directions the team is turning. No matter what a coach or player does, these people argue they should be out because they didn't achieve some other higher milestone than what they accomplished.

There's a time and place for criticism. But you can't weigh the criticism more than the progress. THAT'S the bigger problem within a fan base. Results are obviously why we're all here. But things can indicate that good results will eventually come if you have some patience.

Last thing, we got the result we wanted yesterday: a win. When we talk about "results" isn't that what you're talking about? Winning? We are having this conversation about who should be our next head coach because we didn't win well enough.

That's toxic.

I said NEVER being happy with the product.

So I'll admit to being one of the fans who has been generally unhappy with VT football for a long time now. I was frustrated as hell that Beamer stubbornly refused to hire a new OC, and that when he did finally make changes, it wasn't to fire Stiney, but to complete the trifecta of fail by bringing in Newsome and O'Cain. So when I'm critical of the state of the program, it's not just that I'm underwhelmed by Fu's performance to date, it's that I see this as yet another data point on a trend line that is clearly going down, even if there are occasional outliers like the 2016 season.

But you can't weigh the criticism more than the progress.

With all due respect, I can weigh the criticism any way I please. It's also possible for reasonable people to look at this situation and reach different conclusions. You look and see progress. I look and see a lack of progress relative to my expectations. You see it differently than I do and that's fine. You can tell me how and why I'm wrong, and that's fine too. But please don't play the True Hokie card.

We are having this conversation about who should be our next head coach because we didn't win well enough. That's toxic.

No. We're having this conversation because the program is trending down right now and some believe that we might not (or do not) have the right person in charge to change that. You can disagree all you want, and you may be right, but anyone who can clearly and civilly articulate a point of view isn't a "bad" fan, no matter how wrong you think they are.

Toxic is when you shout down opposing viewpoints rather than engaging or just ignoring them.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

I'm working 2 jobs right now. Seems like I picked a good season to be too busy to watch football.

I am working one job. Turned it off at half time and .... freedom! Looked at results at end and made the right decision. Tired of watching guys hit their heads against the wall.

10 years ago the Clemson forums were all up in arms, saying similar things about Dabo. I'm not saying Fuente is Dabo or that we are Clemson. Just pointing out that the same stuff was said on other forums. We achieved our past success through Frank's consistency and continuity. Clemson did something similar to what Frank did (but different then what the rest of college football was) where they kept their continuity going by keeping all their coordinators and staff together.
I have friends that are big Clemson fans. One used to be Dabo's neighbor. When they lost huge to WVU in that bowl game, Clemson fans wanted him fired. It was nuts - the phrase "Clemsoning" was even invented.

Dabo's hot seat

Dabo from bad hire to hot seat to NC

Dabo's Worst recruiting classes were #36 and #27 nationally in his first 2 years. He then jumped up to 10th and hasn't dropped below 20th (his 4th recruit class) since then.

I don't want to hear the Dabo comparisons any more. They're not even close to relevant when our recruiting ceiling is 25, and our 2020 class is ranked like 70-something

Sigh...

Dabo went 6-7 year three then won 11 games year four and never looked back. Fuente goes 6-7 year three and will be lucky to repeat year four. Year four Dabo had his coaches and his players and delivered. Not gonna happen with Fuente.

Cool. Especially since Fuente has commitments from Sammy Watkins, Nuke Hopkins, Stephon Anthony, Deshaun Watson, and Mike Williams. We will be fine, just like Dabo.

Wasn't "Clemsoning" coined during the Tommy Bowden era? Dabo's teams were still Clemsoning the first few years, but it was a pattern of talented teams losing to underdogs, and also rarely winning the big games, that preceded him, and he finally ended that cycle. I think their fanbase wanted to avoid another decade of a Bowden recruiting well but under performing. EDIT: And that's why they were clamoring to get rid of Dabo early because his talented teams were Clemsoning just like the previous ten years under Bowden.

The difference there was that they were already recruiting really well during the Bowden years, whereas VT rarely recruited at Clemson's level, then or now.

I agree with you, though, Fuente needs enough time to see if he can start getting the results he expects, and we expect as fans. That's at least six years for me.

Yeah Clemsoning had always been. It isn't so much anymore.

Fourth straight year with a young team, lot's of potential, just need to be patient as they develop. Interesting math year after year, but I think the Fuente question should be answered after we finish out the easiest schedule in country, this year. Just playing along with the hypothetical, I like the idea of a top notch SEC asst coach or coordinator if we're that point at end of season.

Enough with these negative waves!

You're right. The future is bright. Our ability to recruit, retain and develop talent is very apparent. We have a team that's tough enough to make Bear Bryant blush. A running game that would make Darrell Royal jealous. This team is headed in a direction that will expose the shortcomings of the Beamer era in big games. Avenging that loss from last year to a 4 td underdog is only the beginning. Buckle your chin straps for the rest of the year. It'll be just like 99 Syracuse once these young guys get a few more reps.

Jason brown - last chance u

/s

Would make a great recruiter. Brash football guy from Compton out on the recruiting trail? Only thing that could go wrong is him constantly dropping the F-bomb in front of some recruit's grandma.

People need to chill. The team has been shooting itself in the foot with mistakes, and those can be eliminated. The first three games usually allow a team to figure themselves out and identify weaknesses, and fix it. If you're still seeing dumb shit by game five or six, then it's safe to resume the bitching. But if you're expecting perfection from a young team right out of the gate you're overzealous. I might suggest tempering your criticism of the incoming recruits until NSD is approaching, because that's the day it matters. We know that running game needs help, but people laugh at all the RBs in the next class? The sky ain't falling, there's just some cloud cover

People need to chill. The team program has been shooting itself in the foot with mistakes, and those can need to be eliminated. The first three games seasons usually allow a team to figure themselves out and identify weaknesses, and fix it. If you're still seeing dumb shit by game season five or six, then it's safe to resume the bitching. But if you're expecting perfection from a young team right out of the gate after three years of new recruits you're overzealous absolutely right. I might suggest tempering your criticism of the incoming recruits drinking heavily until NSD is approaching a new coach is hired, because that's the day it matters. We know that running game everything needs help, but people laugh at all the RBs in the next class? The sky ain't falling, there's just some cloud cover it's already collapsed.

FTFY... with a heavy dose of /s

EDIT: added more emphasis to that whole /s part

Can you put a little more emphasis on /s? /s

Tales told of battles won
Of things we've done
Caligula would grin

i'm glad there is at least one person here that can appreciate this for what it is.

Not sure I agree mistakes is the big problem. It certainly was in the BC game. But the big problem is just poor execution. These guys know their assignments and when they go to execute they get beat or fail. That fact makes me very cautious about any expectations for this team.

Oh no, we won a game we never trailed in. All is lost

I just kinda want Fuente to take over play calling duties. He was a pretty solid play caller at TCU. It looked to me like Herman was calling the offense for Texas (but I was only partially watching from a bar while playing pool) and they scored 38 on LSU. I know it's unlikely he would have stayed long in Blacksburg but he was my dream hire when Frank retired. Can you imagine his offense with Bud's defense?

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

He was a pretty solid play caller at TCU.

Pretty easy to call good plays when Andy Dalton is your QB, you have 8 OLs who are SRs/JRs, and one of the best defenses in FBS football.

Twitter me

If it's so easy then why does everyone make it look so hard at VT? We've had some good OLs, altho I admit there were some lean years. And we've had one of the best defenses in the FBS for 2 decades. And even with Tyrod Taylor our offense wasn't nearly as productive as the TCU offense Fuente directed.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

My point wasn't that Fuente is not capable of play calling, or that it's impossible to find offensive success at VT; just that I don't think playcalling is the issue right now - I just don't think Fuente has the personnel do what he wants (I'm most concerned with poor recruiting).

That said, Fuente decided Corny should be calling plays; all of his game day prep is built around that assumption. I I don't think it's as simple as handing off the game controller to a different person.

Twitter me

I'm not willing to jump on the fire Fuente bandwagon just yet, but I wouldn't mind seeing a new OC to go along with our new DC next year.

Fairly certain Fuente will be coaching for his job next year, and I think he'll know it.

Would not be surprised at all if he replaces Corny to try and spark the offense.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Would not be surprised at all if he replaces Corny to try and spark the offense.

I would be. They're Buds. I think Fuente is a good guy and I think he cares about the coaches who work for him. And their families. And I think, to a fault, he believes that they're good enough to produce the results he promised Bud when he said he didn't need to play perfect defense any more. I don't blame Bud for retiring. He was promised a good offense to pair with his defense and in year 4 our offense is no better than it was with Loeffler. I'd hang em up too!

Fuente will have a few more years to prove the chicken Littles wrong and I'll happily eat crow if he does but I haven't seen any evidence to suggest he can bring a spark to our offense.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Your argument about how the offense has done assumes an absolute linear progression doesn't it? For what VT is playing with offensively so far this year, I've been pretty happy. What I wasn't happy about is how glum a program Fuente was running in 2018 which decimated our depth and talent.

"How you doin', Randy?"

It is better than with Leoffler lmao, how quickly some people forget

Show me the stats. Let's look at conference games and see which offense was objectively better

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I feel like fuente being under fire will hurt his chances to recruit a top defensive coordinator. Coaches won't want to go to a sinking ship.

If Fuente can't find a suitable replacement then should we just hire Venables to run the whole show?

Well, yeah. But if he was able to achieve what he promised in 4 years, or at least show progress towards said promise, then he wouldn't be under fire. Our running game, which he even cited as a focus, has not improved at all. The offense as a whole is producing at essentially the same level as the offenses under Loeffler. He promised Bud that he wouldn't have to field a perfect defense any more and here we are 4 years later with basically the exact same offense which hasn't shown any marked improvement.

All that said, though, I think prospective coaches would know to look for and identify other indicators of a sinking ship than whether the head coach is under fire from fans on a sports blog site.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

After being at our game and watching the UNC game last night I watched Carolina play with "emotion" and many of our guys going through the motions. We don't seem to have the fire or intensity as recent teams. IMHO.

I'm a supporter of Fuente, but this is my biggest critique of his (and there's some other obvious and undeniable ones as well.... recruiting, QB issues this year, media access). He has GOT to find a way to show some amount of emotion during games. Beamer was not an asshole on the sidelines by any stretch of the imagination, but when something good happened for the team he was celebrating, even at times that he will never live down (oh hey, Wake Forest). When the refs missed something, he was letting them know. A team will always mirror it's leader, and I'm convinced the reason we play without emotion is because our leader coaches without emotion.

A team will always mirror it's leader, and I'm convinced the reason we play without emotion is because our leader coaches without emotion.

This is an interesting point. At first I liked the fact Fuente was reticent on the sidelines. Something about the coach acting like a clown on the sideline is off putting to me. But the emotional aspect is something I hadn't considered. Dabo is clearly very animated and emotional on the sidelines and the team reflects that. Saban isn't as clownish but he can get intense and he obviously commands respect and his presence is felt on the sidelines. Fuente doesn't seem to be in charge the way Saban is and obviously he's not animated like Dabo. Maybe there's something to this

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I think Saban is a perfect example of where I'd like to see Fuente get in regards to emotion. He will never be a Dabo, and that's ok, but at least show a pulse with the ebbs and flow of the game.

They were also playing Miami at night...compared to ODU at noon.

All I can say is that there are a lot of fistfuls of keys posting in this thread right now

You put those words together, those are my favorite words, Popeyes and bahama
- Mike Burnup

I'm not enchanted by Fuente. However, is the grass greener if he leaves? Do we really think we can afford a better hire at this point? I think we are better served investing in higher profile or up and coming coordinators if any changes are made at all.

Too bad we can't NBA this thread and so many others on TKP these days. I get it, y'all want more. So do I. But this is some impatient, entitled bs. Win a game by 14 (regardless of it being ODU) with plenty of fixable mistakes, with the 3rd highest percentage of freshman in the country, and you wanna just abandon ship because you're owed what?!!! GTFO. I actually loved seeing some mistakes being made and some in game personnel switches being done to try and find a better solution FOR THE LONG RUN. I mean, I was pretty pumped to see two true freshman holding their own on the offensive line. One of which was playing an entirely new position. But y'all wanna be one of those 5 programs in the country who has it all right now without thinking what dismantling what's trying to be built currently would mean. This is exactly why Tennessee and a bunch of other former big boys are where they are now, because of a bunch of entitled whiny holes are pressuring admins to make rash decisions. Frank Beamer didn't exactly beat the shit out of everyone from the get go yah know? It took him 13 years to reach the big game and that was with a Mike Vick and no college playoff. But, hey, you keep thinking out of your ass.

A good summary of the current mood:

My 2019 Season Challenge: only comment with Star Wars memes.

Agree with you and excellent post.

Nicely written.

Entitled? LOL. ODU is now a nip/tuck toss up series and will be a pain in the ass for 10 years, like ECU because we don't have enough talent to blow them out with our B or C game performance. ODU is a bottom half CUSA team, and will be a tough out now every year for VT because the talent is so down compared to the mid-2000's. That is a fact- not entitlement. There is a reason we are so "young" and playing "freshman" on the OL. We have poorly managed the roster- that is not entitlement or whining, that is a fact. Mack Brown just beat 2 top 25 teams with a 2 win team he inherited 8 months ago, and Mike Locksley is blowing out Syracuse with a bunch of transfer guys coming off a year where one of their players died during conditioning. Meanwhile at VT, we are 4 years into the Fuente era- a guy that was hired to elevate the program and not play down to ODU's level and make that series a nailbiter is still spinning wheels with the roster. We averaged 2 yards a carry against ODU. That's not whining, that's a fact. ODU had the ball mid 4th quarter in Lane with a chance to tie the game. ODU- that is going to finish at the bottom of CUSA- that is not entitlement, that is a fact. I don't care how young we are, we should do to ODU what Wisconsin did to a better program in Central Michigan- they destroyed them and didn't make excuses. Fuente wasn't brought in here to treat water against ODU 4 years in. Period. If the roster is too young, that's his fault. If we can't move the line of scrimmage against a 4 win CUSA team, that's his fault. It's not whining, and frankly VT fans are entitled to better at this point in his tenure.

Mack Brown just beat 2 top 25 teams with a 2 win team he inherited 8 months ago, and Mike Locksley is blowing out Syracuse with a bunch of transfer guys coming off a year where one of their players died during conditioning

I won't disagree that Mack and Locksley have exceeded expectations so far (though I'm still going to point out that Miami was not a Top 25 team), but why are you sold on those coaches after literally two games when Fuente won the Coastal and went 10-4 in his first season after inheriting a 7-6 team that was lucky to beat a bad Tulsa team after giving up 52 points in the bowl game?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

It's easier than ever since the invention of wheeled goal posts

What has Fuente done since then? and Locksley and Brown are simply a point of reference. Showing it's not impossible to win games if you kick mook reynolds of the team... or any other thousand excuses. Locksley didn't make excuses, he went out and put 63 on the 3-4 best team in the ACC at worst. Fuente couldn't run the ball on a terrible G5 defense.

I guess its a good thing hes not our starting RB then

But you know what both Brown and Locksley are doing? They are crushing it on the recruiting trail.

Is it basketball season yet?

So is Vance Vice but I can't even count how many comments are complaining about the OL play this season.

EDIT: Just looked up Maryland's recruiting rankings. 47 last year and 37 so far this year. Interesting how Locksley is crushing it yet not a single person here who says recruiting should come first would say those rankings are acceptable at VT.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

47 last year and 37 so far this year. Interesting how Locksley is crushing it yet not a single person here who says recruiting should come first would say those rankings are acceptable at VT.

Do you think Maryland Football should be our measuring stick?

Who cares? Should Boise State be our measuring stick? Their recruiting always sucked according to the rankings yet they were winning more BCS games than we did even in the Beamer glory years. Maybe you'd prefer to emulate a blue blood who recruits top 10 classes, like Michigan or Tennessee? They have churned through coach after coach for a decade without sniffing a conference title game.

I care about winning games and I absolutely agree we haven't done enough of that lately, but I can't even express how much I despise this mindset I keep seeing of "VT should never lose to X University" and other similar statements as if it's some god-given right to be superior to so many other schools.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Yeah, 47 & 37 are not good at all... But I think the trend for Maryland is an upward one (that was really what I was getting at, but didn't articulate it very well).

Vice is killing it on the recruiting trail, but something is terribly wrong with the way he is coaching or developing his guys. The OL looks completely lost and/or discombobulated on most plays.

Recruiting and player development go hand in hand and I'm not convinced this current staff has the ability to do that across the board.

Is it basketball season yet?

Quite possibly the most well written comment I've seen, especially one that summarizes my frustrations about our current state of football. The program has sunk to mediocrity with a fan base (some) that seem to think it's okay. For example, I read a comment after the BC debacle that referenced it being difficult to open on the road in a hostile environment. And just like the person who commented afterwards, I too saw a half empty stadium and Chestnut Hill. My point being, what are those supporters' expectations? Loosing to BC on the road in a hostile environment does not equate well to a road trip to South Bend or dare I say, Charlottesville this year. I for one am tired of mediocrity and would like to get back to winning games that we should winning and blowing opponents out by 40 when we're supposed to be. "Struggling" against ODU should not be happening in JF's 4th season.

My point, which you didn't get, was that what if you are; oh, I dunno... patient? And, by being so, in two years you get everything you want when this group of guys are seniors? Fact: Fuente has not had his own group of seniors yet. So, if these guys are still blocking and fitting gaps like freshman or sophomores when they are seniors then sure you can call for whoever you want. But let's risk our program being in a constant state of rebuild because you think you are entitled to a top ten recruiting class, 5 yds a carry against ODU, and a win against BC now.

You're not a supporter of VT football players or coaches dc, we all get it. You're just a whiny brat. Thank god people like you didn't have an outlet when Beamer was coming up.

You're assuming that Fuente is going to be able to keep enough of these guys in the Program long enough for them to actually become Seniors.

Based on the last 2 offseasons--that is a significant, somewhat risky assumption.

I would agree with you if we were recruiting well. Improved recruiting would indicate that kids were taking note of Fuente success. Additionally, better roster management on Fuente's part would indicate that he has a specific plan. However, the fact that in three recruiting cycles, Fuente has been unable to land key position players such as (1) a QB who can both run the read option and throw a mildly accurate pass and (2) a running back who can make defenders miss is cause for concern.

Twitter me

I just do not understand the plan for QB. At least they're recruiting RBs left and right, and King looks like he has the potential to be a gamebreaker if we can ever manage to run block. But I have no idea what he's thinking at the QB position. HH and QP were highly touted recruits, but we have absolutely no idea what they can actually do on the field. Willis is what Willis is, and he's gone after the year. Allegedly Burmeister was the only real threat to take his job.

Are we just going to be reliant on cast offs from other programs for QB? Or are we gonna manage to develop some in-house talent?

It might help put things in perspective to look up the top 10 QB recruits (or the Elite 11 or whatever rating you prefer) for each season over the past decade and see how many made an impact in college. I think you might be surprised how many of them went on to be busts compared to those with notable careers (it's well over 50%).

HH and QP had some solid accolades (247 was high on Hooker, Quincy made waves at Elite 11), yet neither was a consensus top QB in their class. Considering even the 5* QBs struggle and fail, HH and QP were far from guaranteed superstars. Personally I see it as a good thing that Fuente is willing to explore all avenues to find the right QB and I don't think fans would care where the QB came from if we brought in a player like Bryce Perkins (who started at Arizona State and went to JUCO before ending up at UVA).

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

You're absolutely right, but I'm not even at "I need a superstar QB". Our current QB can *barely run the offense*, especially when our run game is predicated on making the right read. I'll take basic competency at this point.

??? Fuente has brought in 4 - 4 Star QBs. The first one broke VT records and won the coastal, 2 of them are still underclassmen, and the 4th is unable to play this year because of NCAA transfer rules. We also have a 4 star RB playing as a true freshman who looks good so far.

I'd like for them to have recruited more highly rated RBs too but I am not sure why recruiting QB talent is a concern.

I'm not sure if the concern is around developing QB, or if we are misevaluating on QB? The fact that Ryan Williams Willis is the best QB on the roster right now, despite his inability to run the read option and inability to protect the ball, is concerning. The fact that HH doesn't look like he can throw the ball or read defenses (I admit, based on the VERY LIMITED snaps I've seen from him is also concerning. However you want to look at it, we're on our third QB in 4 years, and no one (except for Jerod) has looked like a schemetic fit.

Regarding Runningback, KK looks decent so far, but again, in year 4 we are having our worst running game stats in the Fuente era.

Unlike many here, I actually do think Fuente can turn this around, but I'm not confident.

EDIT: I wish Ryan Williams was back on the team.

Twitter me

Holy shit Ryan Williams is back on the team and we are playing him at quarterback instead of running back. That's it, I'm officially on the clean house bandwagon.

\s just in case

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

I seem to remember that Ryan Williams always wanted to keep the ball instead of throwing it.

again, /s

I didn't read the rest of the posts, so someone may have mentioned this.

Coach Beamer was 24-40-2 in his first 6 seasons, and went 2-8-1 in his 7th season. Yes, there were sanctions to deal with for the first few years of his tenure. Imagine if he gets let go and we bring in someone else? The last 30 years doesn't happen.

Please, let's not talk about "who is our next coach" when we WON a game, just because it wasn't by 50+ points. Honestly, we talk about how horrible other fanbases are, and how they give up on their team or their coach, or have this idea of what their team is or should be that is not based in reality. Are we them now? This is ridiculous.

Seriously.

If our team had any identity at all, it was patience.

I mean Imagine going 26 - 23 in 4 seasons and being fired from Alabama

Having never won the Iron Bowl, and ending 2006 with a 66 record. On November 26, one week after the Iron Bowl loss, Alabama had to pay Mike Shula $4 million left on his contract after they fired him.

On January 4, 2007, at a press conference on the Alabama campus, Saban was officially introduced as the head football coach of The University of Alabama.

On September 1, 2007, his Crimson Tide opened the season with a 526 win over the Western Carolina Catamounts, scoring more points than during any game in the 2006 season.

He has since Won 8 SEC championships and 6 National Championships

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Michael Vick

--
"It's time to go play Virginia Tech Football longer and harder than anybody else in America!!" -- Justin Fuente
"I put a brick in Sacksburg today." -- Cam Phillips

Don't know about the Hokies next coach, but USC is moving the pieces on the board to make way for theirs...

Paging Urban Meyer...

Leonard. Duh.

True, Urban has been retired for at least 3 months now. His health will obviously be good enough to get another head coaching job again.

I am convinced that Urban Meyer, while seemingly minding his own business in Ohio, has begun the orchestration of cleansing USC of the Pat Haden/Lynn Swann baggage to make way for the New World Order.

USC could be a monster again. Just gotta throw a bunch of deadweight off the boat.

Leonard. Duh.

Anybody else laughing that a thread with a -85 leg score has 256 comments, most of which are constructive.

Does a topic go argyle?

Y'all are wild. Wait until the season is over.

Recruit Prosim

The guy from Last Chance U

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

Kansas ran for over 300 yards and doubled up the BC team everybody on here said was going to be so good. Prior to tonight, the Jayhawks beat the Indiana St Sycamores by a TD and lost to the Chanticleers of Coastal Carolina. How many rushing yards and YPC did we have?

Les miles

The guy who averaged 3 losses a year at LSU? With all that talent?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I would take a 9 and 3 record right now for us this year. Think we will make it?

Absolutely not lol. Thats 8-2 the rest of the way.

When today is over, I think it'll be more clear of what you can expect.

I don't think today has to be over to expect something worse than 8-2 the rest of the way.

Dell McGee or Tony Elliot.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I guess Fireman is on board the #FireFuente train

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Those are exactly the kind of hires we need, especially for recruiting and turning this thing around fast. Agree with Fireman 100% here

They worth $18M for the first year?

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

Absolutely, if they put butts in seats and hit the recruiting trail hard and pull in some recruits and wipe this nasty stench off of our program. We cannot afford mediocrity or below mediocrity. It will devastate our program for years to come. At this rate, you are losing more fans and potential donors then gaining them.

These coaches are obviously in over their heads. When are we going to realize that and move on before it's too late?

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

If Fuente gives Corny the axe today I might have faith. Maybe

Yep that's my position now. Fuente has to fire Cornselsen or I join the bandwagon by end of season.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Right there with you my man. My faith in Fuente is waning quickly. I badly want him to be successful here at VT but I'm just not seeing it. In year 4, we shouldn't be this bad. I don't care how young we are. Losing at half time to FCS Furman at home is unacceptable. The penalties are a mark of poor coaching. The turnovers are outrageous. This is, quite frankly, just a bad team. And in year 4, that's a pretty clear indictment on this staff. Fuente promised a high scoring offense. 83 points in 3 games against bad teams just ain't it.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Holy crap, Fireman.

Let's Go...

I still think blaming play calling is overblown and just the easiest scapegoat for an offense that isn't working well. If anyone watched Alabama yesterday, it's not like they have innovative play calls that differ from most other teams. They have a superstar QB who usually makes correct reads, an OL who gives plenty of time, and skill players who will turn a 10 yard post into an 80 yard TD.

Based on watching our game in real time, the worst position group on the field yesterday was by far the O-line. I simply don't see how you can properly evaluate play calling and scheme when there are free rushers immediately getting to the QB even when Furman only rushed 4. I know everyone hates when coaches talk about execution, but what else would you call that? The execution on the o-line flat out sucked and often times directly caused our possessions to stall.

I won't shed any tear if Cornelsen goes but I'm not sure I'd expect anything to change unless Vice goes out the door as well. The obvious conflict there is that Vice has been one of our best recruiters. I tend to think we need to make the change and then do everything we can to keep the talented young o-lineman around.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

So here is where I'm at with Cornelsen. I actually think he isn't an awful OC, but he isn't changing his style for the personal he has and their abilities.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Been saying this for the past 3 weeks. We did a whole season of it last year kinda wrote it off as 'well probably wasn't used to having Willis at QB1 and the adjustment may be more difficult than I realize' buuuuttt we've come out and struggle in the same areas on O as we did last year, with the same game plan, and same minuscule in game adjustment.

(add if applicable) /s

Firing the OC is about more than just playcalling. The offense as a whole just isn't working. With the exception of a true freshman showing flashes of talent this season, the running backs have been mediocre the entire time he's been here. Our QB play has been far from stellar, and the guy that won the starting nod can't even execute a simple read option correctly. There have been a number of miscommunications between the QB and his receivers on route running. And then of course, the O-line has been average at best, and absolutely atrocious at times.

When it's a total offensive system failure, that's on the OC. Maybe we need to get rid of a few more guys while we're at it, but anything we do has to start with Cornelsen.

This! 10000 times this. Play calling is only a fraction of the problem. The lack of player development and the overall lack of any progress for any of the position groups is astonishing, especially for a group of coaches touted as offensive minded QB gurus. Our QB play has gotten steadily worse. Despite King busting a few great runs our RBs haven't shown any improvement. WR recruiting has ticked up, supposedly, but their rout running isn't crisp and they are not torching any defenses. Oline has been a disaster and despite better recruiting the line just doesn't seem to be developing. They haven't even shown marked improvement over the course of a season. They make the same mistakes in week 12 as week 1. That's a serious problem. This entire offense is riddled with issues that just aren't getting fixed. Leaks are springing up faster than they can be patched. They look unprepared more consistently than they do anything else. The entire offensive staff has failed on a majority of their job descriptions. If Fuente doesn't make changes then he needs to go.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Well said. As a minimum, Fuente should take a serious look at his offense in the offseason and figure out how to incorporate a power running scheme into his spread offense. He has to realize he cannot win championships without being able to run the football. Clemson has proved that.

I vote for Dino Babers or Les Miles. I could also maybe go for Venables.

Les Miles, please.

Let's Go...

What I don't get is that both of those coaches are horrible candidates based on what most people claim to want in a coach. Babers has never demonstrated even above average recruiting ability and Les Miles had offenses loaded with 5* talent that were worse than what we saw under Stiney, O'Cain, Lefty, and Corney.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

BuT kAnSaS sCoReD 8 pOiNtS aGaInSt ThE sAmE dEfEnSe ThAt HeLd Us To 2

I think the ship has sailed for Bud as HC (hard to come back from announcing your retirement and convince recruits you'll now be around for the long haul) but I'd still give him a shot before Les Miles.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I would argue we held ourselves to 28 points via turnovers. But, yes, it's sad that we lost to a team that was thumped by Kansas.

Transitive property need not apply...

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Here's a proposal:

Straight-up trade--Fuente back to Memphis for Mike Norvell.

Worth a shot.

I'd like my 80 some legs back, please.

BTW, I'm not a NATT but this has just been different what I've seen from this team. The off season stuff was the first indication. Yes there is youth, but this isn't a youth problem.

Agree 100%.

Bad locker room, Youth, Turkey Bacon...all pure B.S. to avoid actually breaking down what's happening on the field.

Poorly schemed, poorly coached, and poorly executed.

My question to those who say it's youth and not coaching. Ok how did we get into this position? Does a good coach stage his recruiting such that in a single year he will be starting four freshman? Can you not see this coming where upperclassman will be leaving?

The best coaches intermingle youth and experience. Fuente has not done that.

You just made the counter point. The last two older classes under Frank had basically zero. This was inherited.

I agree good teams will generally have a mixture of youth and experience as the law of averages will play out if the best players play. This judgement on Fuente can be made in 2020 and 2021.

I'm not saying we will be great then. I'm simply saying your point would only apply exclusively to coach Fu then and no earlier. At that point we will see how the 2016 (which was inherited mainly) and most importantly 2017 and 2018 classes and paying off or not.

Is there anyway Bud would still be the coach? Not that I'm pushing for it, it may or may not be a good move, but I think his retiring has more to do with the mess this program is rather than him not wanting to coach anymore. He's still got plenty of coaching left in him.

Literally anybody to spare us and these young guys from the incompetent Fuente regime.

I don't care who it is at this point

Seems like we might wanna give OP his legs back at this point...

Let's Go...

He's had mine all week

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Would you rather hire a coach that is supposed to have a big upside but could be a bust i.e. willie taggert or a coach that keeps the program a perennial top 25 but probably will never win a natty i.e. kirk ferentz

Honestly, at this point, the latter. I had a shit load of fun watching 10-2 teams winning conference championships. At the time I wanted more but having experienced the last almost decade, I'd take a consistent top 25 team (which might catch lightning in a bottle once) every day over this...

Yup. Gimme a perennial Coastal winner who could maybe catch lightning in a bottle every 10 years for a playoff birth compared to whatever this is now

So, right back where we were from 2004-2011, where everyone was still complaining that we'd plateaued and needed to shake things up to get better.

Right now, yes. I'm of the opinion that another coaching bust or two and we might just see Tech enter CFB purgatory of losing seasons and the high points being bowl eligible years. So yeah, if we could guarantee a perennial coastal champion type team, I'd accept it in a heartbeat, for no other reason than to at least stabilize the program and change our trajectory. Just my $0.02, take it as you will.

But I'm also not ready to give up on Fuente even after this year if it's bad. I'm holding out until after the 2020 season to pass final judgment.

I want a defensive minded coach. Someone who understands how an offense works and will hire someone who can field a competent offensive unit. Because we haven't had one of those in a decade or more

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Sounds like you want Bud Foster.

Sure, why not? I'm pretty close to convinced that our offense isn't going to improve under Fuente. I don't think Foster could do much worse

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I am on board with this idea.

What's ironic about this is what Fuente said in the pre-game interview with Burnop....

He was praising the Furman offense and how they were able to dictate to the defense what they were going to do, and get the defense to over think, and how they would be really creative and execute well with all of the various things they were doing... For a moment it really sounded like Fuente wanted the Furman offense.

Is it basketball season yet?

I've changed my mind. Here's what we should do. Call up Andrew Luck to come coach the offense. Kellen Moore is coaching the Dallas cowboys offense and they look pretty decent in his first couple games. What's to say a guy like Luck couldn't produce at VT?

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

PJ Fleck

I been here since day 0.

No. Besides his personal baggage he is an average coach.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Agree. Fleck is totally style over substance. To me, the only advantage he offers over Fuente is injection of some excitement into the Program as compared to Fuente's current Mortuary-level of enthusiasm.

He's shown he won't fall apart under a P5 schedule with a hohum program (let's be honest: we have been on a hard decline since 2010)

I been here since day 0.

Last year they went 6-6 in the B1G west, getting blown out by Maryland, Nebraska, and Illinois (none of whom made bowl games) in the process, and won their bowl game against a GT team whose head coach was a lame duck. This year, they beat an FCS school by 7 (sound familiar?), an 0-2 G5 team by 3 in double OT, and had to rally to beat Georgia Southern yesterday. Not exactly a stellar showing so far, and certainly not much more impressive than anything Fuente has done in Blacksburg.

What the hell happened to Beamer's Auto Garage? Doesn't he have some inside info to share with us about this?

We aren't getting a new coach this year dudes and there aren't a lot of great options. Let's please just try and rally around Fuente at least while the season is still going on. Try to keep the positivity flowing and not put pressure on the guys.

I'm not opposed to getting a new OC... To go with our new DC...

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Andrew Luck for OC!!

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Exactly, because you know what would help recruiting....

...a public forum thread full of unsubstantiated claims about how the current coach is going to get fired, can't coach and the players hate him....

I get it, we've looked bad, but about this time a year ago people were getting ready to build a Fuente statue,

Totally rooting for Fuente but since you asked, Mike Tomlin. About done with Steelers, Virginia native, with a couple good recruiters would kill it on the trail.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

I'm still aboard the Fuente train but I have always thought Tomlin is better suited for the college game.

The concern of things staying the same is only exceeded by the fear of change

I'm a Steelers fan and this is my worst nightmare. I think you're right that he would kill it recruiting but the man is an awful coach.

I've solved our buyout problem.

Everyone needs to set up lemonade stands.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

To me, it comes down to this. The season is 25% over. We are starting to form the picture of this team, and they are the same, if not worse, than last year. I can't bother to get excited about the run game or defense looking improved against Furman, because it was Furman.

Sure, you can point to some statistical improvements, but this looks like the same team from last year. The same, somehow "young" team, that returned 73% of its starters. That cannot run block well and cannot rush the passer against non-FCS opponents. That has turned the ball over at the second most often rate out of ALL OF FBS. That currently has an incoming class ranked 71st nationally and dead last in its own conference. That is playing the easiest schedule in P-5 and looks iffy to win enough for bowl eligibility.

How do you justify, aside from the buyout, keeping this coaching staff around? They refuse to change or adapt their play calling, they barely survive teams well below them in terms of talent, and they are flirting with not making a bowl despite the ease of schedule. I am 100% for change.

How do you justify, aside from the buyout, keeping this coaching staff around?

You don't. The buyout is big enough that Whit can't afford to let go of Fuente right now, not when he has other options on the table. He needs to take some control over the direction of the program and identify which parts of the offensive staff aren't working and replace them.

Few things to unpack here:

We are starting to form the picture of this team

-You are right, we are 25% through the season, and we are STARTING to get a picture, but do not have a full picture yet. May be a bit premature to compare this year to last until we get more data points? Especially when you consider:
- we have been without our best wideout and best defensive end all season.
-still shuffling around the ol to determine best line up after losing two starters to injury

I said it in a different topic, but I think the Duke game will be the make or break for this season for the following reasons:
-coming off bye at home
-Duke is well coached but rebuilding
-no excuse on not playing with urgency/purpose since team will be 0-2 in acc with loss

Sure, you can point to some statistical improvements, but this looks like the same team from last year

-So what you are saying is you are going to ignore facts to support your own narrative? Got it. The D is just holding opponents to a TD less than last year and the offense is converting 3rd down more than 50% of the time, but fine we can ignore that.

The same, somehow "young" team, that returned 73% of its starters.

-You understand that two are not mutually exclusive right? Tre and Dax are both team leaders and both returners...they are still both only sophomores with plenty of room to grow and understand the nuances of the position. If this is true for highly rated 4* players, then it applies to all the other sophs and younger as well

That has turned the ball over at the second most often rate out of ALL OF FBS

-This is true, we are also 2-1 despite it. We have had bad fumble luck and outside of the first game, Willis has only thrown 1 pick.

How do you justify, aside from the buyout, keeping this coaching staff around?

- You got $15mil laying around to help out with the buyout?

I ask this honestly not knowing the answer - why not run the program in the red for a bit? Money will be saved between Mike Young and Buzz's salary, and a little on Bud's replacement. Not enough to make 15 mil sure, but the risk you run is fan apathy and rapid decreases in attendance, which we are already seeing. That is gonna be worse big-picture for overall department revenue, when your cash cow program is hemorrhaging money and you aren't doing anything to change it.

Is the buyout really that prohibitive in making a change, let's say, if Fuente misses a bowl with this schedule? The data points are all there - play calling, recruiting trajectory, ease of schedule, player development or lack thereof - in year four to say that this needs change.

I think this is what happens next year with a $12.5 million buyout. It's more stomachable and slightly cheaper, plus it makes it look like he was given a chance to right the ship.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

The OP must've been in the inner circle to know Jerry Kill was coming onboard, good job sir. /s

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Regarding the buyout and that $15M number - it's payable over 5 years, so if there is the chance we lose more than $3M a year with a floundering program, which there is when you consider attendance, donations, bowl winnings, etc., we shouldn't look at the $15M number as a number we can't entertain.

Beyond, I believe we don't pay if Fuente takes another job, and earns beyond that $15M in the same time horizon, so there is a chance we wouldn't get stuck paying that much in the end.

If you don't think that coaches specifically structure their future contracts to milk their former schools for every penny... I mean, hell, I just read something about one of Bama's "analysts" taking a salary of $30k because he's getting millions per year from the school that fired him.

Also, no way he makes $3 million per year after his performance in Blacksburg, even if he took a salary at the market rate.

I agree. Just adding context.

The bigger takeaway should be the $3M/per, not a $15M lump sum pmt. Given we're likely in for a bump from the ACCN, it should seem a little more palatable, especially when considering potential lost revenue in the interim.

A name I haven't heard and not sure how realistic it would be, but I think it would be a good fit for VT would be Paul Chryst of Wisconsin now he already has a pretty sweet gig with his alma mater. But talking about a great hire

Go for it

He bailed on Pitt for the Wisconsin job, which, as a certified Pitt hater, makes me like him more.

He's definitely not leaving Wisconsin though.

Hes a wisconsin alum and moving from wisconsin to VT is not a step up or a lateral step at this point, frankly it's a step down. They have more money, more fan support, and an all around better program. No way in hell this happens. We need to be looking at G5 coaches or assistants. Not top p5 coaches

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open

Unless Blacksburg opens up a restaurant that slings better curds than Madison no way in hell he leaves. Man loves his food.

Vroom Vroom

Madison is also a nice, small city with stuff happening.

Every time I think this thread is dead it somehow gets brought back to life. *sigh*

THE CUP IS GOING NOWHERE MIKEY!!! THEY DID IT SOMEHOW!!

This thread won't die until the Hokies are undefeated OOC and punching their ticket to Charlotte by the middle of November each year

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Jim Harbaugh's seat may be getting warm. Maybe he's available at a discounted price come January.

I have a hunch that Jim Harbaugh isn't interested in the Georgia Tech job.

Link for context.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Hasn't won BIG East Once, hasn't won BIG once, hasn't beaten anOSU once, has won win against top 14 teams.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

And his demeanor is even more off putting than Fuente's

Agreed. Live in Detroit and once a week he's on local sports radio. He is significantly less interesting than Fuente

Now what I will say is if jim is out I'll happily take their DC to take the reigns from bud. Hes a great coach

Taylor, looking desperately throws it deep..HAS A MAN OPEN DANNY COALE WITH A CATCH ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE FIVE!!!!....hes still open