Whit and Fuente will speak to the media today starting around 11:30. I'll post updates:
This might be biggest overreaction from fans piece that will come out of this:
Babcock says #Hokies will still refer to the Lunch Pail. Said they won't take it to every game, though. Bud owns the trademarks to it, so VT asked him about it, plus Justin Hamilton. Program won't shy away from lunch pail, but you'll see it a little less.— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) April 8, 2020
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Why the Hokie Club is important!
I think I'll be surprised if more than half of the non-revenue athletes come back. Sure you could get another free year of grad school, but I would imagine a lot of them already had their eyes set on starting their professional careers.
Wonder if that's a Hokies policy or an NCAA policy
Trick question, because even if we're following NCAA guidelines, we'll still get screwed.
What is the downside to taking The Lunch Pail to every game?
Bud owns it it is trademarked.
I get that. But why allow it to be brought to certain games and not others? Seems really arbitrary to me.
Probably have to pay Bud every time it makes an appearance
If the lunch pail itself is protected, it would have to be as a copyright on an artistic piece of work. I'm not sure that's what is happening here. You can't trademark a physical object. In any regard, if the object is protected through intellectual property, it would be a contractual agreement on the cost of the use.
perhaps Lunchpail Defense is a term that is trademarked?
edit: drinking... just saw Chazz's post below
perhaps licensing or something??? or maybe it just goes to home games and doesn't travel? idk
Bud probably controls which games it can be used for.
This doesn't actually make sense legally for a few reasons.
Primarily, the lunch pail object itself cannot be trademarked. Trademarks are words or symbols used to mark goods or services used in commerce.
Secondly, the presentation of a the lunch pail object itself at a game wouldn't be a trademark violation (or any other intellectual property violation). Trademark violations occur when using a registered mark on services or goods.
And lastly, even if Bud owns intellectual property on the object itself in some form, he can easily license it out.
I think the conversation went something like this. Bud, can we have the lunch pail- lock stock barrell? Well Whit, I still sell hats.. OK, we will pay you for it... well, I'm not that way either, I love VT. How about you just use it a little more low key moving forward- win/win. That's probably how it went. It won't be the centerpiece but Bud wasn't going to get petty and demand any significant money.
This is where my thinking was too. That, or he said I will bring it to the games I attend.
Yeah, I can't imagine that Bud threatened to sue them if they used it. Got to imagine it's a lot closer to trying to figure out how to honor his legacy without taking his thing.
Only being brought to games where Bud is secretly calling the defense from Lane's underground bunker.
Yeah, I mean, Bud's still on the VT payroll as a "consultant", right?
Regarding the lunchpail --- am i the only one who always heard "bud foster's trademark lunchpail" and didn't realize that it was literally, actually, legally trademarked??????????????????????????????
Yeah, I thought it was a figure of speech. And even then, if someone had told me it was trademarked, I still wouldn't have thought Bud himself trademarked it.
Which... I find interesting. Pretty much every employer that I've worked with has a policy that if you get a patent or a trademark that is related to the work you do for that company, they own it. Surprised VT doesn't have a similar clause.
Remember Beamer had his own pay site that for a long time held all the roster info.
the lunch pail itself isn't trademarked. It's not legally possible to do so.
Right. We could get a lunch pail and have a different shaped dent in it and call it the lunch box. Done.
Fuente is handling this a lot better than Dabo and Gundy.
Literally everyone is handling it better than Gundy.
I would imagine the mental side is much easier to keep sharp with modern tech. Most of these guys probably get lifting plans sent to them and should be able to keep in shape, might not gain much, but I would hope they would be putting in the work to maintain what they left with. The live reps with coaches cannot be replicated, but I like Fuente's assessment that with a month of coached reps, they would be as ready as they are going to be.
Hopefully most of them still have access to a weight room since most public gyms are closed.
A lot of them don't. They have been posting their workouts pushing cars, chopping down trees, resistance bands, some free weights etc.
How big a violation are we talking about if I told every player in the Richmond area they can come use my powercage and bumper plates? 🤔
Would you be providing the service to just Hokies? If you allow as many non-Hokies to lift, you may be ok.
Just student athletes? As UNCheat precedented, as long as it's 50-50 students-athletes, you're good.
(for UNCheat, emphasis on students-athletes)
I'm gonna need a bigger basement
They don't have to be non-Hokie. Just non-athlete.
Since the VT Lunch Pail is trademarked by Bud, time to introduce the Crooked Pinky Foam Finger as a symbol of our defense.
Might run into trouble with the owner of the Flying Fickle Finger of Fate trademark.
Just did a search on the US Patent and Trademark Office website for "lunch pail" trademarks:
There are 9 word marks. Number 8 and 9 are Bud's trademarks, registered by Bud but now owned by LUNCH PAIL DEFENSE FOUNDATION CORPORATION.
These are the three marks owned by LUNCH PAIL DEFENSE FOUNDATION:
Note the win mark is dead.
A few specific notes on these three marks:
The LUNCH PAIL DEFENSE is just a word mark, meaning only Bud's company can use this combination of words in commerce.
This is the .COM mark:
This is the WIN mark (which is dead):
Every mark must list the goods and services the marks will be used for within commerce. These marks are protected for the use on stickers, decals and apparel.
i had zero clue that Win on the lunchpail was an acronym until this moment
Not to get political or start a political thread, but I'm really curious to know what a Lunch Pail Republican is.
simple google search shows it's a PAC based in Indiana
You could have just said "It's a PAC based in Indiana" instead of adding the simple google search part. Comes off the wrong way man.
No, I think it came off just the way it was meant to
You may think so but, that is the same kind of little addon that starts all this useless back and forth with DC and everyone else. No one can discuss anything without taking a shot at each other. The answer would have been fine without that.
Or are you so used to seeing people take shots at each other that you are attributing a meaning different than intended? I'm not trying to start a fight or keep this going for 40 comments. No need to reply at all, I am earnestly asking you to ponder that question.
No need to ponder really. I am used to people taking unneeded shots on here. Are you telling me that if he left that part out it wouldn't have been sufficient? There are many meanings that could be taken from that statement, but only one was needed. That's the type of stuff that has had this site in a downward spiral lately.
Mountain out of a molehill much? There are plenty of things that have had this site in a downward spir...
*Breaks fourth wall: Fuck, I fell right into the trap!!!
*Resumes commenting: Have a nice day there. I hope you and yours are well and safe.
Point taken and perhaps I should have considered perception of my tone beyond what i was commenting
That said, it was indeed a simple Google search away, and starting a comment off with "not to get political or start a political thread" is a good way to potentially do exactly that. I just wanted to be the first one to answer before someone came out of left field with an opinionated laundry list of reasons why they're evil
Thanks for the reply and understanding how it may be taken by some of us.
You have ruined my day by not saying that Loving Message Lunch Pails was owned by Bud. That would have been fun.
Yeah...about that...WTF? Im afraid to google.....
Apparently, that mark was applied for by a Ron L Hudson of Fullerton, CA in 2006. It was never granted though.
So you're saying there's a chance?
If we dont get bud back to do a let's go Hokies with the lunch pail after the third quarter, similar to Corey moore and that one time sam Rogers i think itll be a missed opportunity.
I for one am happy to see Fuente opening up, even though this is a "press conference".
I am summarizing here, but Bud wants LPD to be a recognizable brand beyond Tech football, e.g. the logo itself on clothing similar to the Nike swoosh. This is based on a couple of conversations I had with Bud many years ago.
Fun fact of the day... Doug Ellin, creator of Entourage dated and was engaged to a Hokie. Very qualified.
That makes a lot of sense. If he wanted to do consulting or educational services, he can fairly easily expand the use of his trademark into those spaces. I imagine he could make a good amount of money selling his knowledge and associating that service with the LPD trademarks.
Seems to me that it's worth letting VT continue to use it, since it's synonymous with the program. It's part of the VT culture.
Also, don't those kinds of trademarks that are developed while on a salary typically belong to your employer? I suppose it depends on how your contract was written, but that's pretty standard for employment contracts. Maybe not university athletics ones?
Just thinking out loud, and it would be a huge PR disaster for both sides to get into a tussle over it. Seems to me both Bud and VT could use it, but over time the principles they both use might diverge.
Trademarks aren't really developed at work, unless that's your job (i.e., marketing). As a coach, Bud started carrying the lunch pail around to motivate his team and build camaraderie. At some point, someone (Bud or media?) started calling his defense the "lunch pail defense." But, the using the term "lunch pail defense" to describe his team isnt a trademark, because it isnt attached to good or services used in commerce.
I guess at some point Bud decided he could use "lunch pail defense" to sell shirts and stickers. That decision would inherently be an outside endeavor not related to his work since his job isnt related to selling apparel. Thus, it wouldn't fall into the category of IP developed at work and wouldn't fall under standard employment/IP contracts.
If VT wanted, they could have trademarked the term for their own selling of apparel before Bud applied, but they didnt apply.
Just carry a ham sandwich container.
Yeah, there has to be a beautiful play on that.
A ham shank.
Lunch bag defense
As opposed to the 'tea bag defense':
(too easy, but had to be done.)
Andy went in depth on both Fuente and Babcock today on the athletic. Which is running a 90 day free trail. Very interesting reads especially Whit talking about money and how important football season is.