Late season coaching search MSU

So not only did Dantino cost MSU millions extra by staying until late January but MSU can't find a replacement.

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It would be smart for them to just name someone on staff as an interim and just use the season to find the right guy instead of settling.

Danny Coale caught it

If I was AD that's what I'm doing and having next guy in place weekend after Thanksgiving.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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Probably the best of the bad options at this point:

Option 1: sign a Coach who is 3rd or 4th choice to 3-4 year deal, knowing they are not your ideal candidate. If they fail; it could set program back 5+ years and Millions of dollars. Particularly because at this point, you know MSU is desperate--giving you leverage in Negotiations = large Buyout Clause.

Option 2: name an Interim Coach from the current Staff. Probably take some lumps on the field this year and Probably in the 2021 Recruiting Class but have a chance at finding "the Guy" for next year.

Either Option sets you back, but at this point, its almost more about damage control. Of the Two, Option #2 would seem significantly less likely to "blow up," on them.

It almost makes you wonder if Fuente had split for Baylor, if Foster could have been convinced to come back to be interim head coach for a season.

Click here to destroy wall.

This kind of situation is why there were a lot of people pissed that Fuente was talking to Baylor when he was. We would be dealing with a very similar predicament had he gone.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I am genuinely curious how Cincinnati fans reacted to Fickell interviewing for the MSU job

all 19 of them? probably mixed reactions

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

It's funny though right. Reading that he interviewed, talked to his wife and then turned it down. To an outsider, it seems like a perfectly normal and rational thing for a football coach to do.

But not if its your coach....

"Don't go to, go through"

From what I've seen, they weren't happy about it because MSU had more money to offer. They seemed to be pretty pumped that he's staying. In fact, they are talking about increasing donations to make sure him and his staff get paid. Pretty much the opposite of how a lot of folks here have reacted.

Cincinnati understands that they are a stepping stone school. They are not in a P5 conference and don't expect to compete with the big boys. They still act like them beating us in the military bowl was some kind of upset even though they were the 10 win team and we were the 6 win team. Different expectations means different reactions.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Different expectations means different reactions.

True.

Cincinnati understands that they are a stepping stone school.

We, however, have fans who seem to think we are a blue blood and should be vying for the Playoff every year because we played in the NC game in 1999. Even though our record is 62-43 after 2011.

Different expectations means different reactions.

You want to hear from all 300?

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

Yeah if he left the timing would have screwed us. But the timing wasn't on Fu's part. It's not like Baylor was searching for a coach since mid-season and Fu finally agrees to talk with them in late Jan.

In the end he didn't go so it doesn't matter. But people who are made b/c of the timing aspect of it are mad just because they don't like Fuente. Not because of anything logical.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

cant we just keep this in the coaching carousel thread?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

That's at over 500 comments and barely loading. It's the last search and turning into a unique one.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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I'll never understand the loading thing. Loads fine on my pc and phone. Is it because people don't feel like scrolling or hitting the N button?

Sometimes threads get so heavy that they don't load right. When you click the "N" it will not take you there, as it is on the part of the screen that failed to load.

Edit: Even if you reload the page after it fails to load, the new comment is no longer new, so you can't find the new comment if it's not at the very bottom.

I feel like it happens more on cell phones, than desktops.

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I do experience that occasionally but it doesn't really bother me. Most of the time everything works fine regardless of the comment numbers. It's almost just as annoying that there are so many threads opened for the same topic. Just my opinion.

You obviously do not belong to many other boards.

The amount of duplicate threads are extremely low here. Probably the best I have ever seen.

Sometimes new threads would be great as occasionally threads from 5 years ago pop-up and make no sense in modern day.

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Just stating my opinion. I don't have to belong to many other boards to do that. New threads being added for the same topic repeatedly is in my opinion worse than a long thread. Like I said, I don't have any issues with threads loading on TKP on any device.

So just because YOU don't have an issue means we should do certain things. That just made things very clear.

dog pooped in your shoe again this morning?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

No - he's just saying we should do something because he isn't having any problems with it loading. I am also not having problems with the coaching carousel loading either, but what I don't know is if lots of other people have problems, so I refrain from dictating what other people should do based on my single data point.

Or he's suggesting that posters should follow the community guidelines:

Don't start duplicate threads. Use the tracker.

Respect the signal to noise ratio.

(Yes, I understand the irony of me responding to an off topic thread, while sharing the 'Respect the signal to noise ratio' guideline).

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I thought HokieFireman responded to the "noise" aspect when he said it looks like it would be turning into a unique one, and this one is different because it's that weird timing thing we discussed with Fuente/Baylor.

Plus, depending on how they resolve it, if they DO find someone who will take it and not name an intermediate coach, that would potentially open up a coaching position at another school.

indridcold was primarily responding to the load times, which lots of other people have apparently dealt with too, which is why we have "Part II's" to some threads. Do we only do Part II's because of load times, or does sheer volume of responses play a part?

Plus, if it's a frivolous thread, everybody could ignore it and just keep posting in the coaching carousel thread anyway.

I didn't say that you should do certain things. I merely mentioned that the opposite side of the coin is annoying for me.

the load time is usually an issue in recruiting threads because of all the embedded tweets and 247 profiles. a 500 comment recruiting thread might have 100+ embeds which means the one thread is fetching information from 100+ websites as well. also gif-heavy threads. The coaching carousel thread loads just fine for me too. but i agree with you about general "thread clutter"

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

my guess - all the images we link/embed that go out to multiple other sites, and workplace content filtering chokes on it.

Let's start a complaint thread.

Leonard. Duh.

only if you promise to derail it again *shakes fist*

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Leonard. Duh.

Airplane always gets a leg.

I was just thinking how the first world problems on here are pretty incredible. Complaint thread or "what really grinds my gears" would be some epic offseason entertainment.

I love seeing people complain about load times and things of that nature. Reminds me that I'm lucky as hell to be alive, have a roof over my head, am healthy and make over 30k a year which puts me in the top 1% of the world population financially... perspective is key to sanity.

Now, back to my expensive boat and bitching about how it never runs properly....

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

MSU needs to let twitter decide who their next HC should be. I'm all in for Coachy McCoachface

here shane you drive?

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
β€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

Dennis Dodd
@dennisdoddcbs

Bret Bielema "very" interested in Mich St job per sources. There has been contact between the parties but not much more than that. Good culture fit with BB's B10 roots. Many reporting this morning. Not sure where Luke Fickell is with his interest in the job.

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They should just pick up Pat Narduzzi. He makes the most sense and get him out of Pitt.

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Narduzzi makes the most sense. Not sure what the hold-up is on that route

just saw this and thought it shows how interesting the media coverage can drive a narrative. Not sure what the hardcore Cincy fan thinks of Fickell's flirtation with MSU but I don't think the perception is quite as bad as Fuente's flirtation with Baylor.

Cincinnati also had a much better record than us last year. Easier to be relieved/excited about someone coming back when you're confident they're doing a good job. Just my guess as to another layer to the differences.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

Two key differences:

  • Fickell has already elevated Cincy's station in the college football landscape. They went from top quarter-ish of the G5 to easily top 5 G5 program in the country. If Fuente spent four years at VT, drastically improved recruiting and took us from 4-8 to back to back 11 win seasons, fans would be sad to see him go, but not resentful. As it stands, Fuente's work here is at best incomplete - VT fans have no choice but to believe that we have already bottomed out, and that a turn around is in progress. Seeing Fuente leave before completing the turn around would have sucked.
  • Fickell-to-MSU would have been a vertical move by almost any objective measure. Fuente-to-Baylor, a team that until 2013 had never won the B12, and had not won a conference championship in nearly 30 years, shows that VT is at best a weak tier 2 college football program. If Fuente were flirting with Oklahoma, or Texas, or any out of conference program that is a unanimous step up, I don't think there would have been nearly as much frustration.

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Is Fickell waiting for the OSU job to open up again?

He grew up in Cincy, went to OSU. He might consider programs outside of OSU, but I don't think he's leaving Cincy unless it's a great situation. Mich State is not a great situation right now.

Kind of OT - Bruce Feldman was discussing this on The Audible last week, said that Luke Fickell would never coach at Michigan because he hates them so much from his playing days. I respect that.

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It's one of the reasons I dont coach at UVA. Another one is that I dont coach sports, but I feel like it takes second fiddle to the first reason.

took us from 4-8 to back to back 11 win seasons

Would the fanbase have been as forgiving of Fuente if he went 4-8 in his first two seasons?

Look at the reaction to losing the Commonwealth Cup this year after holding it for 15 straight.

Would the fanbase have been as forgiving of Fuente if he went 4-8 in his first two seasons?

No, but that's not Fickell did. In 2016, before Fickell was HC, Cincy went 4-8, losing 7 of their last 8. In Fickell's first season, they went 4-8, then had back to back 11 win season.

If VT had been in that situation when Fuente arrived, yes, I do think we would have been forgiving.

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Valid points. Ironically, your first thought basically described Buzz Williams elevating our BBall program and there was a solid contingency of fans angry at him for leaving.

Cue thread derailment...

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

I don't think the fan base was nearly as angry with Buzz as they would have been if Fuente left when he did. I personally had no qualms with Buzz leaving when he did. It just sucked that he left the cupboard bare.

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Agree with you there, I'm not mad at Buzz at all. Knew he was a hired gun. Glad he put us back on the map.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Dino Babers needs to go get that "I don't want Bert Bielema as our head coach" money and ride into that East Lansing sunset.

The youngish head coach...
the fairly similar winning %...
the maybe-less-than-realistic fan base...
the dalliance with a Big(ger) Dog...

Anyone else feeling like Cincy is handling their thing way better than we handled our thing?

Fickell has recruited well, beaten numerous P5 teams - including us. (I don't really buy the "G5 v P5" argument - I'm sure there's a big gap in revenue/resources but Cincy's current roster can definitely hang with MSU - or VT, for that matter.) But: national ranking, off and on, like VT. LF is a top name whenever any big job comes open, like JF. Big picture, these are not dissimilar programs right now. And in this case, the Cincy fan base seems to be welcoming Fickell back with open arms - all as this plays out with basically the same bad timing as Fuente's flirt with Baylor. And we, as a fan base, sharpened our pitchforks and lit torches.

There hasn't been the vehement "two camps" aspect with Fickell that we've had with Fuente; Fuente has been a polarizing figure, a real gear shift from Frank. Some of us are pragmatic, level-headed folks who understand where we currently are on the food chain and that it's a business and that every program waxes and wanes. And a large, vocal portion of our fan base thinks that winning a bunch of games 10 years ago and a natty appearance before most of our roster was born (!) entitles us to something in 2020. "It's special here. Frank Beamer stayed 25 years. Bud too." Sure. It was great. But they were the last of the unicorns; stability like that is extinct. I would invite those fans to join the rest of us in the current, real world.

We all want to win. Not saying we can't hope, can't strive for higher highs. But we need to acknowledge who we are right now. This is not a plug for Fuente. And this is not an indictment of our program or fan base. But maybe it is a small wake up call? I know it's not a direct correlation, but seeing how the Cincy community is reacting to a similar situation? Feels like something discussion-worthy. (CAVEAT: hoping to hear from the aforementioned level-headed pragmatists among us. hahaaa)

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

If you haven't already, highly suggest finding a good national podcast or an article discussing the MSU situation. Cover3 released first so that was the first time I heard the story subsequently covered by all the rest. Honestly was scary to hear how MSU winning the Rose and making the playoff, then getting blown off the field, resulting in them recognizing if they seriously want to compete they needed to up their talent level. That subsequently resulted in them going after some more risky personalities that other schools intentionally stayed away from. So much so that a coach was quoted saying something like my daughter goes here and I don't want that individual on this campus. 4 of those individuals had sexual assault cases inside of something like 12 months.

Honestly reminded me what a drive to just win and go away from your fabric could result in with poor decision making.

@hokie_rd

Reportedly going to make more than Ryan Day at anOSU. Big Ten and SEC are going to reset the coaching salary tree again.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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They bought their way out of it.

You know if the PAC12 wasnt run by an idiot they could put a lot more money towards the schools and not rent in San Fransisco.

Mismanagement has certainly been part of it, but the SEC and Big Ten TV deals are also very lucrative. Outside of money, this is at best a lateral move.

No it's not.

It may not be a giant leap up, but it's a leap up. Just for starters, Colorado game attendance is UVa-like - and is barely more than half of MSU's.

agree. Colorado has not been relevant in a long time. MSU is a big step up.

Colorado split a MNC in 1990, it's not UVA. They averaged 49,642 fans per home game in 2019, that's 92.5% of capacity. UVA averaged 47,811 fans per game (77.7% capacity). What did you base your attendance conclusion on?

Also, Colorado is in a division with USC, while Michigan State has to contend with Michigan, Penn State and Ohio State.

Are you trying to make my point? Because you're doing a pretty good job of it if you aren't.

I'm basing my attendance conclusions on...actual attendance. And how is playing in a high profile division in which you've generally been more the competitive considered a bad thing?

Because you're doing a good job of it if you aren't.

I am very confused right now.

If you think 47.8k and and 49.6k per game attendance isn't comparable and isn't a more valid metric for fan enthusiasm, then yes you are.

Capacity short of 100% is basically meaningless. 90% capacity just means your stadium is about the right size. If, say, you're at 98% capacity but your stadium seats seats 27,000, does that make your attendance/fan base comparable to 82% capacity in a 75,000 seat stadium?

You're basing this off the attendance and capacity of Colorado and UVA. I THINK Joe was responding to where you said that their attendance was just under half of MSU's.

According to Chris Solari of the Detroit Free Press, the announced attendance for Saturday's game between Michigan State and Maryland was 51,366. Per Ryan Cole of 9 & 10 News, that is the lowest announced attendance for a Michigan State home football game since Nov. 14, 1992, when the Spartans beat Purdue in front of a crowd of 36,803.

Capacity at Spartan Stadium is 75,005

Link

47.8k and 49.6k are way more than half of 51.4k and more than the 36.8k. Like I said, I THINK that was the point Joe was making by giving those numbers.

Edit: and by saying that MSU is a step up based on fan numbers (given they look pretty close actually) is my guess to why Joe said it's a lateral move.

Exactly, mismanagement of the TV deal by Swofford is why the ACC is running the college football arms race with its shoelaces tied together. Big10 and SEC had networks and were dangling carrots in front of ESPN a decade before the ACC could figure it out and by the time they did, the cord cutting weakened the market badly enough that ESPN wasn't about to break open another piggy bank for the ACC. We share a lot of TV market with the SEC and have larger population centers in the ACC footprint than both the Big10 and SEC, yet sit with a fractional TV deal.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

And in a huge shock to everyone, the mystique and cache of Notre Dame playing 5 games against ACC teams each year didn't impress ESPN. Shock.

More myopic nonsense. For starters, without ND, there likely isn't an ACCN. And there's a good chance some programs would have been poached.

Nonense. Total

While I agree that Swofford fucked us, let's not act like ACC football is nearly as good a product (year in, year out) as the SEC or B10. B10/SEC had far more leverage in their worst season than the ACC had in their best. But Swofford's ineptitude still cost us at least $10m/year over the last 5 years.

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Imagine how much better ACC football would have been if each school had an additional $150m or so in revenues over the past decade and a half that we left on the table by selling our regional TV rights for pennies on the dollar to his son at Raycom rather than allow other broadcasters to have a legit opportunity to bid.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Imagine how much better the money for the ACC schools would have been if it wasn't 2/3 private or wanna-be private schools and the enrollments/alumni were twice as big.

Basically you're saying imagine if I was billionaire and didn't have to pay taxes...

Apparently since fans are now recognizing that they're as much (and probably more) to blame for VT's challenges, the new (old) boogieman (but equally deflective) is the mythical dollars left on the table because the ACCN took so long to get off the ground.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Regarding TV money vs Donations - I think most people would agree that it's (generally speaking) easier to make millions by selling a product to a corporation than it is to get tens of thousands of individuals to donate to a cause (for virtually nothing in exchange).

When it comes to figuring how VT went from perennial top 25 team to financially behind in 1-1.5 decades, I think there is plenty of blame to pass around (fans, current administration, previous administration, etc), but I'm not sure how you can look at the current landscape, and not blame Swofford/ACC a bit.

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Now lets see who the next lowest team is on the totem poll. I get the feeling San Diego State is soon going to be poaching an FCS coach.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Unrelated fun fact. The lowest member on an actual totem pole is generally found to be the most prestigious.

(add if applicable) /s

so the expression "low man on the totum pole" is a big misunderstanding of totem poles or does it simply refer to the top figure?

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

A big misunderstanding of totem poles. There are lots of back and forth on the subject but I think Pat Kramer is probably the person I'd believe when it come to totem poles.

https://www.woot.com/blog/post/the-debunker-is-it-bad-to-be-the-low-man-...

Also I know all of this from one bored day on the internet. I literally read all of Pat Kramer's background.

(add if applicable) /s

This is HOAT's total lack of surprise.