What's your minimum acceptable number of wins for 2020?

2020 Schedule:

HOME:
Liberty
Penn State
North Alabama
Georgia Tech
Miami
Boston College
UVA

AWAY:
Middle Tennessee (lolwut)
Duke
UNC
Pitt
Louisville

Based on the already tumultuous offseason and expectations leftover from 2019, what are your minimum expectations for Fuenteball in 2020? For me, I see 8 wins as an absolute minimum, but I won't be satisfied unless we get 9. PSU, L'ville and UNC should be the toughest.

9-3 with a bowl win should be attainable, and dammit if we don't get 8 regular season wins then that's just unacceptable. It's another easy af schedule and the conference sucks, let's get it together and win the Coastal like we should be doing.

Interested to hear everyone's opinions.

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Comments

HOME:
Liberty (W)
Penn State (L)
North Alabama (W)
Georgia Tech (W)
Miami (W)
Boston College (W)
UVA (W)

AWAY:
Middle Tennessee (W)
Duke (W)
UNC (L)
Pitt (W)
Louisville (L)

9-3

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

UNC and PSU are the games I'm eyeing as below 50% chance to win, everything else IMO is above 50% winnable.

Don't forget Louisville just got a new head coach. Not sure if that changes your expectation of an (L).

This season was his first, and they outperformed expectations, so it's reasonable to assume they will be a good team next year too.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

10. I've explained my stance before and if anything, the past 48 hours has strengthened it for me.

Does that include a bowl win or nah

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

No. 10-2, ACCCG, NY6. That's the minimum expectation for me. I know it's a lot, but it's where I'm at with him and his staff.

I agree with this. We should have won the coastal this season. With virtually everyone returning we MUST win it in 2020. Preferably on the strength of our dynamic and unstoppable offense.

Proud author of one plaid comment.

Agreed, same expectations.

"War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner.”~~Judge Holden

We have the talent to get to 10 but Fuente and staff will probably make it come out to 8 again.

half the staff is different but ok I guess

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

That's exactly why I think it will be 8 wins lol. Do not have much faith that offense or defense will improve enough to get to 10 wins.

10. I'm not sure if Fuente can sell anything less at this point with what should be a decently talented team in a still weak conference.

I would like whatever amount gets us to the ACC title game. UVA win also. Other than that I really am apathetic.

16 or burn the witch

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

9 and a coastal title will make it okay. 10 I'm happy. I'm worried about UNC and Penn St next year and that's really about it.

(add if applicable) /s

Too soon to tell. I was on the record that there was no reason we shouldn't win 9 (edit: regular season) games in 2019 with our schedule and our roster. That feels about right for 2020 as well, but I want to wait until the roster churn settles.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

10 wins. If Fuente can't get it done with this group in year 5, it is never happening and it will be time to move on.

Minimum 9-3 regular season, really should be 10-2. I can see us losing to PSU and 1 or 2 of UNC, Louisville, and Pitt.

But I really wanna see this team go at least 6-1 at home. Results in Lane haven't been what they should lately, and as a season ticket holder I'm getting tired of driving to Blacksburg to see us lose, and I really want Lane to be a tough place to play again. Only 1 team we play at our place is better than us, we need to beat all the others and maybe beat them (PSU) too.

Given the schedule, and returning starters, anything less than a 10-2 regular season would disappoint me.

I agree. 10-2 without any other context. I can accept 9-3 if we end up on the wrong side of a 3+ OT game or something like that.

Also, I don't care what bowl we're in at the end of the campaign, a bowl win is a must this year imo.

Click here to destroy wall.

a bowl win is a must this year imo.

Bowl Win pls

(add if applicable) /s

11 including post season

Mitch (2)

9. It should be a 10 win season but what I have a feeling we will be trying to get our 9th win in a bowl game.

8 regular season wins with this schedule and where the program is talent/coaching wise is fireable imo

8 would be winning the games you should and losing each of the games that would be a comparable talent matchup (UNC, PSU, Louisville, Miami). Which we're all tired of, so yeah.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

For me, it goes like this:

10+ wins: Great, this was baseline, keep it up

9: Okay, cool, but I'm not on board with Fuente anymore

8: Get out.

That seems a little intense... 10 hasn't been baseline for over a decade.

I agree that's high, but there's been a lot of shit around Fuente and the staff/locker room situations so it's almost like bro you gotta prove that all this is going somewhere

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Yep, the recent flirtation with Baylor, losing the locker room (and portal) in 2018 and not recognizing your best QB until several games into the season all beg a solid season to help us forget those things. 10 regular season wins (including a W versus UVA) and a bowl win might reset my feelings about the last 2 years of Fuente.

"If you think you can or if you think you can't, you're probably right." Mark Twain

Anymore?

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson
@HaydenDubya

VT should be aiming for 9 wins every single season, and given the returning starters + Brock, I'd like to see 10 wins next season. That said, if Hooker and QP both go down early, we have to completely alter expectations.

Twitter me

Funny you say that - burmeister sounds like a real wild card. Will see what he's got this spring

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Great another offseason without naming a starter until August /s

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Might want to take that /s out...

No we won't! We"re not allowed to see spring ball!

9 in the schedule, 10 depending on bowl matchup

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Minimum is 8. Meaning if we dont get 8 I want a new HC. To be satisfied I need 9 and that cant include a stinker or a L to UVa. 10 and I'll probably be ecstatic unless we really look out of place in the ACC champ and bowl games.

Gotta be 10.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

9 or maybe 8 if we still win the Coastal.

I see PSU as the most important out of conference match-up in the Fuente era. We could really use some early season hype to elevate our national profile, and starting 4-0 with a win over PSU would do that.

Thinking about PSU has me curious. Did the creation of December's ESD affect the value of early vs. late season wins? And overall is it better to start the season hot and fade, or to start slow and finish strong? Starting well gives you shine in the media when pundits are falling for and promoting dark horse CFP candidates, but finishing well feeds the "trending in the right direction" narrative.

10. Let's do this, or let's find someone who can.

El. Psy. Kongroo.

< 9 and I'd be pretty disappointed but I'll reserve further judgment until seeing how PSU, UNC, Louisville, and Pitt look next season. If a couple of those teams are below average, then they need to be added to the probably win column. Also we need to avenge the Duke and UVA losses, short of one of them being one of two losses we take all season (e.g. I'd have a really tough time losing to either unless we get to 11+ wins including a win over ranked PSU or Clemson).

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Need the cards flat first, dealer is still doing that slow slide when you bet too much on the hand.

@hokie_rd

10. All day long.

15

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If you can't get 10 with this schedule and this returning roster, I'm not sure how you could expect them going forward

In all seriousness, I'm done with the excuses. It's put up or shut up time. 10 win regular season and a Coastal title or it's time to move on. It's year 5, this is an experienced team, no excuses.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Agree. 10 wins, trip to the ACC Championship, and major bowl appearance need to happen this year. The buyout is going to be a tough pill to swallow, but after how hot things got this past year before a Miami miracle saved Fu's job, I think the big donors will have had enough and be ready to pull the plug. My worry is if we are in 8-win territory again and there's not enough support to to make a move. There will be built-in excuses for the new defensive staff and likely resources now, but at some point you can't keep kicking the can down the road. Especially with all the returning talent in 2020.

Get ready for more excuses about how Fuente needs another year to get his guys in. There's some equipment staffers that were Beamer holdovers who are holding the program back.

I mean...we do still have the same logo (athletics)

We put the K in Kwality

Nope. Not after this coming year. The time has come to produce. The players have played. You have some good ones. Need to get to 10 wins this coming year. Needs to happen.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

"Just like after 2018, they had guys enter the draft early that weren't expected to leave, so 2020 doesn't count."- future posters

Not this time - guys we lost this time are largely replaceable. Edmundi and settle. They were different. Major game changers. Fuente has the players and our schedule is crap. Time to win

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

1-0 12 times is ideal. Always.

No hard minimum because my expectation is far lower as I age.

β€œWho is this Fuentes person that you speak about?” -McHokie540

That's our brand, Bro.

We put the K in Kwality

Seriously, with all of the returning talent there is no reason for anything less than 10 (barring injury of course). Beating UVA is a given as is winning the Coastal. Short of that? Bye Felicia!

I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them!

Minimum of 9 wins next year in regular season, and reclaim the Cup. 10 should be a reasonable goal with that schedule. Less than 9-3 would be very disappointing and should necessitate a very hard look at CJF's continued employment,

To summarize the thoughts of a lot people here, I'm at the point where I'm done judging the team based on what's realistic to happen, and at the point where I'm judging the team based where they need to be. If we don't win the coastal, and don't look good doing it, that pretty much resigns me to think we've already seen the peak of what VT can accomplish under Fuente.

Some have suggested in the past week our goals are too high. I disagree, our goals are very attainable. The coastal is the weakest division in the power 5, we should be dominating it and have a reach goal of building a squad that can upset Clemson if the stars aline, not just consider ourselves lucky to get to the damn game.

We don't have to "look good" winning the Coastal to have a chance to beat Clemson. We didn't look good every game in 2016. UNC was 7-6 and easily could have beaten Clemson this year. Syracuse was 4-8 when they beat Clemson in 2017. Pitt was 8-5 when they beat Clemson in 2016.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

While all of that is true I think its difficult to compare those games to an ACC championship with a playoff spot at stake. Those were all mid season games where clemson was just going through the motions. Clemson has proven to be very tough in games on the big stage. They've won the last 3 ACC championship games by a combined score of 142-30.

Point probably being that if we're 7-6 but happen to win the Coastal and be competitive with Clemson for a game (unlikely) that's still not acceptable because 6 losses would be crazy next season

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

We were close to winning the coastal this year with some glaring holes on defense and a lot of inexperience. We sure as hell better win the coastal next year.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Given our current coaching situation and lack of recruticorning and player development I am hoping we get to six and keep the bowl streak aliveΒΉ

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
β€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

76

VTMidge

10.

"IT'S A MIRACLE IN BLACKSBURG! TYROD DID IT, MIKEY! TYROD DID IT! TOUCHDOWN TECH!"

Hokie Club member since 2017

This clown needs to win 10+ game against our joke of a schedule. There's really only one team on our schedule that even has business being on the same field (Penn State). All the other teams are from lower leagues and basketball schools. Frank Beamer built a football school at VT and right now Fuente is failing to live up to that standard. If he can't win 10 in year 45 I don't think he ever will. 10 wins minimum, IMO.

Also my opinion: We'll go 8-4 again.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

It's ironic you praise Frank Beamer, a man revered almost as much for his humbleness and respectful nature as his winning record, in the same post that you dismiss our current coach as a clown. I don't care if you don't think Fuente is a great coach but is it that hard to show a semblance of common decency?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I liked Fuente and never once called him a clown until the whole shit show with Baylor this week. That whole deal was a bit strange and then him ducking out on the media and asking Whit to take care of it plus posting that silly picture just didn't sit well with me. Therefore, he's now a clown in my book. He can redeem himself by winning 10+ games in the regular season and at least one in the post season. But until then I'm no longer a fan of his. It's one thing to have teams pursue you and I get he can't do much about that. But the whole thing, especially the aftermath, could have been handled way better by him. And his stubborn refusal to engage the fan base irks me as well.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

Clown??

*clutches pearls*

Not cool - Fuente is no clown.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

Interesting this may be the only thread on TKP Vtkey hasn't posted in.

Come on man, we all want to know.

I came to look for his response as well. He will be non-committal so he has room to back out his expectations.

Recruit Prosim

So, here's my take, because I know everybody has been waiting on it. (obvious sarcasm)

I think ALL of our games are winnable.

I think people should go look at Penn State's schedule from this year. They beat some mediocre teams, but against their harder opponents, the didn't look like a real powerhouse. 17-10 win against Pitt, 27-6 win against Rutgers, the did score a lot of points against a few teams, but there were a decent number where they only scored 28 or less.

Louisville - maybe they've been tough, but they've been much more of an offensive team with weak defenses these last few years and they have a new head coach.

UNC could be the toughest team, but I think our defense would make the biggest difference in this game, and considering we return all starters except Floyd, I feel good about that aspect.

I think we should absolutely win 10 games and be in the ACCCG. HOWEVER, I feel like I should mention the defense. Bud was a master at a lot of things. I'm really hoping JHam can make the type of in-game changes Bud did. I'm also hoping we can figure out how to stop a mobile quarterback. But I'm assuming we'll be running some new schemes, so just hope that doesn't burn us in a few games.

I could be wrong about this, but I feel like our offense has focused on controlling time of possession rather than scoring a lot of points (which would follow from Fuente's promise to Bud that Bud wouldn't have to hold teams to a certain amount of points, by keeping the other team's offense off the field, it helps our defense as I'm sure you all know). If it IS true, I'd love to get to the point where we can get enough bodies on defense to be able to rotate talent in if our starters get gassed and put the pedal to the metal on offense.

I think if our defensive coaches are as good as we hope they'll be, we could be going into the ACCCG at 11-1.

I'm hoping the d actually improves. We have some talent coming in to help at d end which I think is crucial.

"I play real sports, not trying to be the best at exercising..." - KP

I think the players will absolutely improve - looks like we have some really good coaches on staff. Just wonder what we'll see in terms of scheme. Foster is on staff still in some capacity, Claeys can provide input, Teerlinck can talk about pro schemes - seems like JHam will have a lot of experience and ideas he can leverage. Really hope he figures out how to contain mobile QBs.

This thread has made me realize one really miserable fact... we have to wait 8.5 more months to find out.

Let's count

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

9. And winning the division and beating UVA. Plot twist: beating Clemson. If not 10, gotta beat Clemson. We need a program elevating win now. Not later. Just 1. This is the time. And I think it's gonna happen honestly. Tech has just the right pieces this year to take em down. You heard it here first. VT will win the ACC next year beating Clemson in the process.

9 is probably not getting us the coastal...3 loses means 2/3 acc loses...UNC isn't losing 4gms next and if we lose 2/3 acc gms most likely 1 is UNC....I want 11-1 and unless we have injuries to major positions we should get there.....

Have you met the Coastal? Has it ever gone the way anyone predicted?

VERY good point!

10. Must beat UVA. Must win the Coastal.

The offense needs to be fuckin' rolling. We need to work some teams by a wide margin. I think the defense will need some help.

I don't think we should be scared of UNC at all. It will be a big game and tough matchup, in the shittiest conference in college football. Time to show up. Fuente needs to win that game.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

10 or go home

10. On top of that, we are overdue (I mean, WAYYYYY overdue) on a major win, and Penn State would be that opportunity this year.

"Because we have a new staff" isn't going to cut it for a reason for anything less than 10 wins in the regular season.

8 regular season wins and a minor bowl win. 8 wins, with what we've had happen over the last two seasons (emphasizing 2018 departures, 2019 coaching shifts, new qb in 2019) suggests we're still stumbling a bit. This season should be better but I don't expect us to have it all figured out yet. 8 is a minimum.

I think 10 is the max for what we could expect. Lose to PSU and then drop another one somewhere.

Pitt at Heinz is always sketchy.
Louisville was Jekyll/Hyde last year so the offense might have to outscore them.
Pitt's top ten cousins will be expected to win, hope for an upset there.
The perennial "other unexpected loss" among the other ACC rivals and that could be 8-4.

BUT, I'm seeing this as two years because the 2020 team will be more experienced than the past few seasons, but the majority of the leadership will be juniors and sophomores (I'm counting one to three seniors on offense and possibly four or five on defense, mainly looking at potential starters).

But in 2021 there could be 6+ seniors on offense and 6+ on defense (assuming guys stick around for senior/rs-senior years), plus a number of juniors mixed in, so 2021 will probably be the most experienced team of Fuente's VT career up to then.

Therefore, I don't see Whit changing the head coach with so much experience ready to lead the team in 2021 , but I trust Whit and the athletic department to evaluate the situation. I could see a new OC for 2021 if the offense stagnates in '20, and some defensive adjustments if needed, but this is most likely the staff for the next two years.

I'm confident that more experience will win more close games than last year. But hopefully most of the games will be old school Hokie blowouts. Go Hokies!

Man, this is a tough crowd. 10 or he's gone? A clown? 9 or he's gone, 9's not enough without a Coastal Championship? Wow. There's enough salt here to preserve a ton of fish.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

If it was his second or third season, or if he had won college football's worst division more than once in the past 5 years, or if he didn't have 22 players transfer the past two seasons, then we would be a little more lenient.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

He coaches in the weakest division in the P5, and has frankly a soft schedule with a veteran team that almost completely returns everyone in the 2 deep and has played with each other for awhile now at this point. I'd say 10 wins is not that unreasonable given the circumstances. In fact I think you fans are being a little too easy on this program. This will be year 5 for Fuente, and I think 10 wins is a reasonable goal for the program we should strive to be.

Striving for 10 wins is a lot different than expecting 10 wins. They strive to win every game, so they strive to win 12 games every year. When you miss the mark, it doesn't help to melt down. Each coach and player has to forget about the past game and work to win the next game. Fans would be happier if they did the same. Healthy to strive, unhealthy for the fans to EXPECT "10 wins or else".

All of the teams we play are also getting more experienced, so just because we have more experience doesn't automatically make me expect that we'll win. I hope we win and I enjoy the wins.

Oh, and the "weakest division in P5" echo chamber is tired. No offense to you specifically because numerous people seem to repeat it as if it is true, but these are solid coaching staffs and solid players in the Coastal and most national teams would have hard time in this division. I don't care if Coastal teams lose outside of the division. Within the division they play each other tough every year and every team can be dangerous. That's healthy and strong.

Ya, fans are tough, but Whit is smart and logical, so I'm not worried.

Yeah, I agree, but fans aren't just tough. Some are downright delusional. It's a good thing Whit isn't.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

We have struggled with Pitt in the past at Heinz, but we DID shut them out 28-0 this year, so I feel pretty confident we can win that one.

Louisville has a new head coach though, so I'd expect them to dip in performance next year, and think we should be able to win that as well.

That's true about experience - between early departures and transfers, Fuente hasn't had any appreciable amount of seniors since he got here.

Pitt - just because Tech handled them last year doesn't raise my expectations for next year, Tech was blown out two years ago, they'll have more experience next year also and they are tougher in Heinz. But yes, Hokies can win there and hopefully they will, but not expecting a win.

L'ville - their new head coach led them to 8 wins last year and they scored a lot of points in most of their games

Miami always has talent and is always tough, GT getting better, Duke & UNC can win, BC will have a first year new coach but you never know. UVA has proven themselves. Those are professional coaches and good players on most teams.

I wouldn't be shocked if Tech wins 10, 11 or 12 games, but I won't be shocked at 8 or even 7 with a couple of close losses. I want Tech players to step up in the final moments of close games and win more than they lose, but I don't expect it. I enjoy the wins, and I don't melt down if they don't win.

The main point is that fans building up their expectations for nine months for a specific outcome "or else" is going to be interesting to watch, especially when what they think will happen doesn't happen, and never had a chance of happening: the head coach getting fired with a majority senior and junior team returning.

I say 10 wins, Coastal crown, and NY6 bowl or the stove gets set to high...

Warning- Filter lost.

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I say 10 wins has to be the minimum looking at the big picture. We return so many starters and many of these guys have started for multiple years now. This season is what Fuentes been building to, and will more or less determine our ceiling with him as coach. If we go 9-4 I think that would be a disappointment. I don't see a single game on our schedule outside maybe Penn State that is not winnable. And frankly even with Penn State i want to win that game. Fuente really needs a big victory against a top opponent.

I was patient these last 2 seasons given all the upheaval and youth. But next year the excuses are officially out the window. He needs at least 10 wins, he needs to win the coastal division and win his bowl game. Any less than that and I think I'd officially jump on the boat of wanting to move on
because it's not gonna get any easier for him in future seasons.

100

10-2. Returning talent everywhere, at every key position. If we land a guy like Roche (grad transfer) at DE, our weakest position group, then it will be even stronger. But that raises the expectation even more.

Most of this defense has been playing together for 2-3 years. Cohesion has to be high.

Our entire starting OL returns with the addition of Brock Hoffman, creating a situation where we have legit 7-8 starting quality OL to even absorb a few injuries.

Hooker will have 3-4 offseasons in the system (can't remember if he EE'd) to have increased ownership, control, and trust from the coaches in the offense.

The RB room should be upgraded both in sheer talent and depth.

We return BPT and TayRob, with a flurry of 4* receivers behind them who should be reasonably expected to be counted this year. At least 1-2 of those guys should be field ready.

Cornelsen, Shibest, Vice, Fuente, the core of our coaching staff, is in year 5, it really feels like if they don't show improvement this year it's probably not going to happen at VT for them.

Obviously, lots of crazy stuff can happen, but assuming we don't have 2019 Alabama level injury misfortune, we should win 10 games.

We have 4 teams who could be worrisome, Penn State, UNC, Louisville, and as bad as they were Miami is still talented enough (and might get D'eriq King) to always be in this convo for us.

We need to to go at least 2-2 against that group and not drop a clunker like BC or Duke. Or, we go 3-1 against that group, and have our one WTF loss. Either way that gets you 10-2. That is not too much to ask.

I think you're spot on. 10-2 should be the expectation, with cautious optimism that the opportunity is there to run the table if the chips fall our way.

The defensive cohesion cannot be overstated. You need 11 guys flying around and being in the right place, not 5 or 6 with a few talented young whippersnappers mixed in. We should have that this year and as much as I liked him early in his career, the Floyd loss should not impact us at all.

Definitely excited about the RB room. Herbert looks like he could be a true lead back, but if he isn't, you have to like the idea of picking someone out of King, Gary, the JUCO transfer (last name?), and Holston (he appeared to really show some promise on a few runs in the Cincy game). Total speculation, but we're all thinking there may be some more attrition from the likes of Steward, Wheatley, Beck, etc. Speaking of Beck, he has been performing extremely well in track. If he cannot carve out a role as a kick returner (where we could use a bit of an upgrade), I think he should consider sticking with track. Multiple shoulder surgeries in HS and now this latest operation at VT have to make him think about durability, potentially losing out on a professional track opportunity, etc.

I'm a bit mixed on the WRs. Certainly Tre and TayRob have been fantastic, but we will need them to stay healthy. We're an injury away from having to rely on freshman to play a heavy number of snaps. Would like to see Grimsley, Smith, and Patterson carve out more of a role as they have been in the program for several years and have shown some big play abilities in spots.

On the coaching staff, I agree wholeheartedly. I would like to see this be the year where we learn from and stop repeating the same in-game coaching mistakes. For example: (1) The lack of aggression at the end of the first half. (2) The settling for field goals inside the five yard line. UVa this year, Notre Dame at home last year, Notre Dame on the road this year, Pitt at home 2017 (thank you, Reggie Floyd), Oklahoma State in the bowl game. (3) And just generally being overwhelmed/overthinking things in the moment (see the game at GT where we chased points twice in the red zone, threw the deep balls to Cam at the end), failing to go under center and sneak the ball around the goal line and losing yards out of shotgun (saying we don't practice it, but then running it the next week), etc.

So, again, really hoping this is the year where the chips fall in the right place. We have been hearing about youth, inexperience, and/or execution since the Battle at Bristol. Let's hope this is the year where we finally don't have to rely on that crutch anymore.

"That's it guys. Let's get out of here. That cold drink's waitin' on us, let's go." - Mike Young after win no. 300.

Everybody who wants to fire Fuente if we don't meet X threshold of success is making one big assumption: that we'd be able to get someone better to replace him. Firing Fuente after this season is only a net positive for VT if the new coach is an improvement. Otherwise we've just reset the success clock back 3-4 years to get a new system, new recruiting relationships, new players and player attrition, etc.

Firing the coach doesn't always result in an improved football program. There are plenty of examples out there of programs churning through coach after coach trying to find the one with the magic formula for success and failing.

I'm not saying we shouldn't ever fire him, I'm just pointing out that bringing in a whole new staff could just as easily make things worse as make them better. Don't fire Fuente unless it's going to put VT in a better place.

I get your point, and you're not wrong. But schools like Louisville, Baylor or Minnesota are examples of how it has worked quickly.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

and schools like FSU have proved how it doesn't. Coaching searches are a crapshoot. I think we can upgrade from Fuente, but we can certainly down grade. I think the only way we send Fuente walking is if we go 6-6 or something.

Yep, again, not a wrong point.

I think any less than 8 regular season wins is fireable. I'd like to think that we'd fire him even with an 8-5 season but I still highly doubt we'd actually do it.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

I think the key variable is we don't fire Fuente unless we have the next guy in the bag already.

Why do this over and over. Preset expectations are bound to end in disappointment. My guess is Vegas will have us as a 9 or 9.5 on o/u.

"I am probably too rational to be here"

LSU certainly wasn't disappointed based on their preseason expectations.

I simply wanted to gauge where people are in terms of their tolerance of Fuente's success or lack thereof for 2020.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

I like 9-3 I think. I don't think there is a for sure loss on the schedule, I think we actually match up well with PSU and UNC next season. But I think there are enough teams that are going to be clustered around us that we drop 1-2 we think we shouldn't and go 1-1 in the UNC PSU games.

Here's how I see the schedule breaking down:

Definite wins:
North Alabama
Middle Tenn
Liberty
Georgia Tech

Should win:
UVA
BC
Duke
Miami

Toss ups:
Pitt
Louisville
UNC
PSU

What I really want is to go 8-0 against the definite and should wins and avoid the WTH loss. Beyond that I really want to win the coastal.

Would be great to go 2-2 against the toss ups, especially if we could pull off a big win early in the year against PSU.

After recent performances against Furman and ODU (twice) I'm not sure that we can even have a category for "definite wins". I wouldn't be shocked if Liberty beats us. That's the type of WTF game we seem to have annually.

Otherwise, the only other school on our schedule with football pedigree is Penn State. We really should be able to win the rest. PSU should be the only real toss up. All the other teams come from basketball schools or lower level leagues.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

I agree with your first point, but that's the kind of progress I'm looking for. We finally have an experienced team on both sides of the ball, I want to see a well coached team that executes enough to win games that we should.

Based on what they have returning I do think UNC, UL, and Pitt will all be tough. UNC returns basically their entire offense and their QB won't be a true freshman. UL returns their QB, really good RB, and really good WR. Pitt should have a solid defense again and also returns most of their offensive production outside of Ffrench.

Yes, we had some tough games, but I don't think people acknowledge how PAINFULLY young we were last year. We all just look at ugly losses, but I still strongly feel that there are close to zero coaches (possibly one or two) who could have done any better with as many freshmen as we had playing last year. This year, we were still pretty young (hence the possibility of returning 21 starters).

We did improve over the season (yes, the last two games were ugly), but we also shut out Pitt and Georgia Tech, and it's been a long time since we've shut out two teams in a row. We were within a point of Notre Dame with our third string QB. Everybody focuses on all the bad things, ignores the good things, and assumes the bad things are what we'll see more of rather than building on the good. If we'd been able to stop a mobile QB, we would have won the last two games (yes, we could have done better on offense too, but sooner or later we have to be able to do that on defense).

How about an offseason that's not mired in bullshit? 10 wins and coastal or we need to start looking for a different type of coach.

"How you doin', Randy?"

I think that next season really tells us what Fuente's ceiling is as a coach. Given all of the returning talent and the favorability in the schedule, we need to have a "good" year.

Good year is relative and I don't know if a set number of wins is the answer- but I do know that if Fuente doesn't beat Penn State, win an ACC title, or win a major bowl game, there's not a lot he can do to prove he's anything better than a middle ground coach.

What determines if he gets fired is interesting- and the outcome of the 2021 recruiting class matters as well, but I think what's really sad to think about is if he goes 8-4 or 9-3, and nothing really changes, it redefines where Virginia Tech sits in the landscape and what the team should really strive for.

In the early 2000s, we were focused on getting back to the national title game. After 2011, it was about getting back to winning ACC titles, and now it's about just making the game.

Personally, I want to see a win over Penn State and nothing worse than 10-2 in the regular season. Will he get fired or deserve to be fired if it is anything less? Maybe not, but it just means VT has sunk into the "middle ground" that many teams can never get out of.

VT 2016
Go Hokies

My margin between excited and unacceptable is razor thin.

9 wins with UVA is the base expectation. Less than 9 is a failure and we should fire the staff before Fuente interviews again and we look even weaker.

10 wins or 9 wins including PSU and I'm pretty happy.

Recruit Prosim

9 wins including Penn State means losing to L'ville, UNC, and....Miami? UVA?

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

da U

Recruit Prosim

Some thoughts on minimum number of wins and stuff.

I think some people are way too militant about firing Fuente. I keep hearing that he's incapable of winning. I know I've said this before, but he won 10 games his first year and we went to the ACCCG where we played Clemson better than the 1 loss Big 10 conference champion (we lost 42-35, they lost 31-0). The most common argument I hear about that is that Evans was a unique talent. The NFL certainly hasn't thought so. Basically, it showed me what he's capable of. Since then, it's been a matter of putting the right pieces in place to get back there. I fully believe he can do it, but I know a lot of you don't.

People point to our ugly losses (and yes, some of them were ugly). But go look at most new coaches and see how they frequently have bad losing seasons their first year. If 6-7 is the worst we fare under a coaching change, keeping our bowl streak alive, I'll count us fortunate. I know a lot of people think it's unacceptable, but I challenge those people to go find a situation where a coach in a new program didn't have a losing season (and I will throw out your results if the team had multiple 5 star and lots of 4 star talent on it already).

I also don't think you could find another coach that had a better season than we had in a P5 conference with as many freshmen as we had playing last year. Yes it was ugly, but, like I said, I think it could have been uglier.

We did improve over the season this year (yes, the last two games were ugly), but we also shut out Pitt and Georgia Tech, and it's been a long time since we've shut out two teams in a row. We were within a point of Notre Dame with our third string QB. Everybody focuses on all the bad things, ignores the good things, and assumes the bad things are what we'll see more of rather than building on the good. If we'd been able to stop a mobile QB, we would have won the last two games (yes, we could have done better on offense too, but sooner or later we have to be able to do that on defense).

That leads us to next season. We have 19 starters returning. Losing McClease and Hazelton in my book is mitigated by bringing in Herbert and Blackshear. From a sheer amount of returning experience, we should do well. From the perspective of our schedule, we should also do well. I saw where some people didn't think we should have any games we considered "should win." You're absolutely wrong. Just because we didn't do great against ODU the past 2 years doesn't mean anything. I think if we played ODU after Duke/HH starting, we beat them much more easily.

The games I've seen that people have as "toss ups" are where I don't agree. Louisville has a new coach, and as I pointed out above, it is VERY rare for new coaches to not have a dip their first year. Miami - the U will NOT be back. Pitt - we shut them out last year. UNC is where I think we'll have our toughest challenge. They have a good QB - really good. We also have some great CBs. Hopefully our D-line play improves with Teerlinck, and that will help a lot. I honestly think after how we played down the stretch last year, how we played against ND, we should be able to win all of our regular season games. Will I want Fuente gone if we don't? I don't know - depends on how any losses play out? Do we get refs that hand Penn State the game? Do we get a situation where the other teams RB lowers his head into one of our DBs who already had his helmet down, our guy gets ejected for targeting, and HH gets hurt, but it's a close game we lose with a backup QB and missing a starter on D? It only takes 3 games of weird shit happening to not get 10 wins. But I honestly think it's realistic to think we should win at least 9, and that we could honestly win all 12.

Sorry for the novel.

Probably wasn't clear enough on wanting Fuente gone. If we do go 8-5 next year, and the losses are ugly against teams we shouldn't have lost to, I may stray into that camp. I just don't see it happening. I think the worst thing that might happen to us next year is we win a lot of games and get complacent for a game.

L'ville's coach will be in his second year.
BC will have a first year head coach.

Agree with a lot of what you say, and I agree that a lot of variables are actual reasons for losses and not just "excuses".

BUT, yes, there will be more experience returning in 20 and hopefully they play up to expectations and win 10+ games, but even more experience will be coming back in 21. That has to be a factor when evaluating the coaching staff for the 21 season regardless of what happens in 20. And I think Whit will be considering that even if the fans do not.

Yeah, I was confused about Louisville because I saw that Petrino had just been hired, so was thinking this was Satterfield's first year.

The other piece is that I think even when other teams are returning talent, they'll be losing more than we are (especially UVA with Perkins). I also REALLY hope JHam and company have some ideas on mobile QBs!

I'd say 9-3 is the minimum for me....more than anything Fuente needs a standout win to really change the narrative to me. Whether that's Penn St or a championship/bowl game this year, we all need it. A 10-2 regular season with a Penn St win would go a long way with me personally.

Thought about this again, there are actually a lot of unknowns with this team. I know we're focused on having 19 starters back and the incoming transfers, but considering:

- no more Jerry kill and what's the impact of that
- losing Keane, McClease, and hazelton - especially his red zone ability and the difference between TDS and FGs that may lead to
- completely new defensive staff
- who knows if any hangover from Baylor flirtations and any impact that might have

...I dunno, seems like suddenly we know less about the 2020 team than we thought, and therefore tougher to set expectations

I'll stick with my "minimum 9, really should be 10, and need to go at least 6-1 at home" statement from earlier - but more unknowns than I realized

Really hoping we land the DE from Temple, would go a long way next season

There is a clear pattern here. If these coaches can't work through these challenges without making excuses and win 10 games then they never will. Those challenges will always be there

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽☝🏽

This right here. This is big boy football. Staff turnover, transfers, injuries, they happen. We need to be able to over come those and still pop out 9-11 wins a year. That's what separated us from the rest of the ACC in the 2000s.

That's how the best do it. Bama, Georgia, LSU. Etc, and that falls on recruiting, coaching, and culture.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Can't believe I'm typing this as I'm usually the last to put down concrete win-totals and blanket statements but...10 is the expectation. 9 is acceptable. Anything less is grounds for firing, regardless of injury situation. Any win total that doesn't win the coastal is a problem. Gotta win a bowl game. And, although I know this is unfair, a loss to Penn State is unacceptable. I know they have better talent and a lot coming back, but we still haven't seen a signature win in 5 years. It's time, and if it's not going to happen, there better be a NY6 bowl to make up for it.

I've been on the forefront of preaching patience and considering context, but this is the year. Gotta show proof of concept or it's just not happening.

Nah, I still count the WVU win over Mountain Jesus and the cousins. That was a legit team, and our defense played till they couldn't play anymore, literally cramping over their own bodies.

We also beat Notre Dame in South Bend, even though that was a down year for them. They don't lose at home.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

True, and I was at the Thursday night game in 2016 where we crushed a ranked Miami. Still, after the last couple of years it just feels like the fanbase needs a big win to get excited over, and Penn State is the only real chance

9-3, but I'd like the season to have these qualities!

1) no big stupid surprises! Nobody gets fired for affairs! No mass exits and sports illustrated articles! No fights in the locker room! How about we let our players, coaches and fans focus on football!

2) consistent play (1) - We beat the teams we are supposed to in a way that the 2s and 3s get significant playing time by the middle of the 3rd quarter! Our team is actually BETTER by the end of the year! We actually have experienced back-ups that can truly practice "next man up"! We PEAK in time for UVA and the conference championship!

3) Consistent play (2) - we quit taking quarters and halves off and we actually have team leadership on the field. Nobody looks like a deer in headlights! We play together! Absolutely nobody quits!

4) our losses are "honest". We didn't lose because of poor play calling or 5+ turnovers. We eliminate excuses and we get beat because we played hard and the other team was just better that day. THAT our fan base can accept!

5) our head coach finally relaxes and quits acting like he can't trust anyone! He finally becomes consistent and we see "that guy" that everyone says is there behind closed doors!

That's a 9-3 season I can really get behind!!! Go Hokies!!!

I almost started a new thread about this topic, but I don't want to hurt the football program and I think in some small way, it would have.

After taking a few days, I feel that Justin Fuente should never have entertained the idea of taking the Baylor job. Not because he doesn't have a right to provide for his family, or any other logical reason. He leads an organization in a business that is cyclical, and those cycles are very well defined. This Baylor move was forced well out-of-cycle, and for the first few days I thought, "Well, he didnt create the timing". However, since then, I've thought that no matter whatever level of prestige you assign to the VT HC job, he had no business even calling them back, especially given the performance over the last 2 years and with new coaches coming in. Unfortunately, it's the second year in a row where he's getting doinked over the head for his choices.

Fuente is growing up on VT's dime, and unfortunately, I suspect that somebody else will be reaping the rewards.

"How you doin', Randy?"

I believe CJF would have taken the Baylor job if a legit offer had been made. The barely lukewarm response by the Baylor fans to the CJF hire possibility shut down the offer IMO. Why would CJF have taken the interview if he wasn't willing to go there? And why did Baylor hire the hot commodity of Aranda unless there had been pushback to the Fuente hire?

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

I like Coach Fu but I never understood how or why he was Baylor's Top choice. We aren't coming off a season in which Fuente should be fielding offers from anyone. Much less a team that was 1 win from the CFP......

8 would translate to "meh."
9 would be a fun year
10 would be ecstatic.

I think if we get 8+ we have a chance (I hope) to pull in the recruitment foundation that has been laid.

I couldn't read through all the comments here as there are a whole lot of delusional people on this board. Do I expect to win 10 games? No. Do I think we can? Yes.

8 wins in the regular season needs to happen. I agree with all those in that boat as our schedule is easy as pie...or cake.....whatever you guys want as I don't usually eat either (give me salty snacks all day over sugary delicacy).

Anyways that's my answer......It would be awesome if we could turn back time and ask this question every year for the last 20 and see how many times Beamer hit everyone's mark......my guess is even in our best years he wouldn't have reached expectations with half of you posters.

Long story short....Go Hokies!

I think we win 8. We miss on a winnable game due to new defense (not totally new i know but we'll get out schemed once). We should go 9 fairly easy. 10 would be great but it's not happening without a bowl game.

Critical for me is winning loluva.

I don't think it happens, but i did say on another thread, that people better get used the idea that Fuente will be retained on 7 wins. Underperforming this year will put him on the edge with Year 6 being the final determination. If he can't win Coastal in year 6, or show serious upside with majority of wins, then he'll be gone.

I'm mostly with you guys. It should be around 9 to 10. However... if they could put up 100 on the Hoos I'd be ok with the one win.

Leonard. Duh.

10-2. He has as much returning experience this year as he ever will have and the Coastal can only improve from its current state. If cannot win 10 games this year, I don't think Just Fuente is capable of coaching here.

Win or lose, I think he needs to be competitive in that PSU game. VT has never punched above its weight class with Fuente and the helm. If we come out and get dusted at home I'm not sure I will have faith going forward that Fuente will ever get our program to anything more than occasional Coastal winner.

2021 will have twice as much experience returning (as long as a bunch of guys don't go pro)

Please explain, we have 18 starters returning next year (losing Floyd, Keene, McClease, and Hazelton, assuming none of those three decide to not leave). I counted before and we would have 12 starters returning in 2021, so unless you mean THOSE guys having even more experience, don't understand what you mean. But we'd be losing 10 starters, so I would think having more returning starters would be better for us than having 12 more experienced starters but 10 new ones.

You tell me if 2020 looks more experienced than 2021, based on last years roster projected over the next 2 years, not including additional transfers or recruits. I know things will change over time, but hopefully guys stay in school and stay healthy. Might have a couple errors in there, but I tried to be accurate.

In 2021, QB will be a third year starter (hopefully). If the OLine stays healthy and intact, the starters in 2021 will have two years all together, and 4 guys will have played three years together. WR will have two three year starters plus whoever stands out in 2020. TE will have a three year starter. The defense will also have a number of seniors and juniors leading the way again, and hopefully some star sophomores.

2020 OFFENSE - 2 Seniors (3 Seniors unsure), 4 Juniors, 4 Backup RS/SR OL, 11 Sophomores-RS/FR

QB - RS/JR Hooker
RB - TF/SR RB Herbert (first year at VT), SO King, SO Gary, SR Holsten (unsure), TF/JR Lee, TF/JR Blackshear (unsure)
WR - SR Hazelton (in Portal), SR Grimsley (unsure), JR Turner, SO Robinson, RS/FR Bowick, RS/FR Payoute, RS/FR Pinckney, RS/SO Simmons, RS/SO Smith
TE - RS/JR Deluliis, JR Mitchell, SO Gallo
OL - TF/RS/JR Hoffman, JR Darrisaw, RS/JR Dzansi, SO Nester, SO Hudson, Backups 4 RS/SR

2020 DEFENSE - 2 Seniors, 5 RS/SR in the 2 deep, 9 Juniors, 8 Sophomores

DL - SR/TR Crawford, RS/SR Hewitt, RS/JR Garbutt, RS/SR Belmar, Backups 2 SO, RS/SO, RS/JR
LB - SR Ashby, JR Hollifield, JR Conner, Backups RS/SO Tisdale, TF/RS/JR Barno, RS/SR Ladler
DB - RS/SR Deablo, RS/SR Rodgers, RS/JR Hunter, SO Walker
CB - RS/JR Farley, JR Waller, RS/SO Chatman, TF/JR Murray, Backups 2 RS/SO

2020 SPECIAL TEAMS - Both Seniors
Punter - SR Bradburn
PK - RS/SR Johnson

2021 OFFENSE - 4 Seniors, 4 RS/SR, 11 Juniors-RS/SO

QB - RS/SR Hooker (3 years starting)
RB - TF/SR Blackshear, JR King, JR Gary, TF/SR Lee
WR - SR Turner, JR Robinson, RS/SO Bowick, RS/SO Payoute, RS/SO Pinckney, RS/JR Simmons, RS/JR Smith
TE - RS/SR Deluliis, SR Mitchell, JR Gallo
OL - TF/RS/SR Hoffman, SR Darrisaw, RS/SR Dzansi, JR Nester, JR Hudson, Backups various

2021 DEFENSE - 7 RS/SR, 4 Seniors, 7 Juniors, 4 Sophomores

DL - RS/SR Garbutt, RS/SR Griffin, RS/TF/SR Cunningham, JR Fuga, JR Pollard, RS/SR Debose, SO Bailey, SO Bryant, SO Beadles, SO Wooten
LB - SR Hollifield, SR Conner, RS/JR Tisdale, TF/RS/SR Barno
DB - RS/SR Hunter, JR Walker
CB - RS/SR Farley, SR Waller, RS/JR Chatman, TF/SR Murray, Backups 2 RS/JR

2021 SPECIAL TEAMS
Punter - ??
PK - RS/SR Romo

Fair enough - you're talking about experience level of all returning players regardless of whether they started or not not. That does help, but not sure what the most important factors of predicted success are. Is it better to have a large number of returning starters where they've all played together before so there's more cohesion? Or does overall experience level matter more? That I do not know. The only one I know is that apparently returning receiver production apparently is the highest correlation to future success (per that thread topic). We will have a lot of receivers returning in 2021 (to your point - unless they turn pro).

It will also be interesting to see what kind of production come out of the guys who've transferred in. Any number crunchers have plans on keeping running track of lost production to the portal (or grad transfers - do they go into the portal, I couldn't tell from my search?) vs incoming production? I think it would be interesting to see some numbers after 3 years or so.

The way I see it, most of the 2021 starters will have also started in 20, or at least played in many/most games, and they will understand their roles well. They will also be more mature and have more years in the system, now JHam's system.

Of course, some guys might go pro, or get injured, or transfer, or flame out. We can't control that, and the coaches can't control that either.

To your last points, from what I've seen, most guys that transfer out don't do so well at other schools (Savoy, JJ-got injured again), but a number of transfers into Tech have done pretty well for themselves (Hazelton, Willis). I'm not tracking any of that, though.

If Farley has a 2020 like he did a 2019, there will be no Sr Farley on that 2021 squad. Same could be true for Waller.

College roster management is starting to feel like a 3 year game rather than 4/5 years.

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Yeah, I remarked in the post that some guys might go pro or get injured or transfer. Can't control any of that.

For stars and physically ready guys, they really should go to the pros as fast as possible. Most players will still be in that 4/5 range, I think.

9. I know MTSU seems irrelevant and weird for us to play at, but after going ever couple of years to watch LA Tech play it is a cool place to go being close to Nashville.

Born in Charlottesville, Reborn in Blacksburg

HOME:
Liberty
(W, how they even got to Div-1 is beyond me)
Penn State (L, as much as I hate the entire state of Pennsylvania)
North Alabama (W, didn't even know this was even a team)
Georgia Tech (W, still trying to teach OL how to block without taking out knees)
Miami (W, Manny Diaz is a joke)
Boston College (W, beating a horrible QB won't happen this year)
UVA (W, Commonwealth Cup will come back to it's rightful owner)

AWAY:
Middle Tennessee (W, Pegasus was a unicorn not a blue raider)
Duke (W, Come on it's a basketball school for f's sake)
UNC (W, Mack Brown is good Tar Heels still suck)
Pitt (W, Shouldn't be relevant ever)
Louisville (W, Haven't been good since Lamar Jackson left and he is still losing)

Edit: Sorry 11, I will only accept 11 wins for reasons stated above.

Coach Fuente and Coach Foster...because you're doubly f***ed

I'd say this is a little ambitious. VT hasn't won every game it was supposed to since 1999.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

What the hell is up with that!?!

Coach Fuente and Coach Foster...because you're doubly f***ed

I know this specified number of wins, but for me I'll just go with a division title and ACCCG appearance. That means more to me than the difference between 8-9-10 wins.

I think I'll withhold my opinion on what is "acceptable" for next year's team until the last game is played next year. I believe, though, that if the fan base of today was around when Beamer first got started, Southgate would still be Southgate, and there would be no statue on a bench, or even a Bud Freakin' Foster to revere and bid fond and wistful farewell to. Yeah, I know. Things are "different" today, but I'm not loving the "difference", myself. I agree that hopes and expectations have changed, and for the better, but the impatience of our fan base is not better, IMO.
Of course, I appreciate the difference between 14,000 people in Lane and 60,000 in Lane, and no, don't want to go back, but the rabid fans of that time were no less rabid, and Dooley was our pin cushion for a while, but I don't recall the incessant second guessing and trashing of our coaches today's fandom seems so intent on.
Hopefully, we'll win the 10 games, but I expect that will just start the "10 isn't enough" crowd back up again. Yep, old man talking old man talk, I know, but hell, that's the way I'm seeing this.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

I'm curious how you feel about this past season. Was it up to snuff?

I know that before 2019 kicked off a lot of us (myself included) believed that with our returning talent and ease of schedule 10 wins and an ACCCG appearance should have been the benchmark. We didn't hit that and so I feel the coaches underperformed. Would you agree or disagree?

Supposing you agree: If the coaches couldn't deliver in 2019 don't you think some of us are justified in our frustrations? Most of us realize that Fuente is likely still going to be around for a few years but I think it's okay for us to complain.

Supposing you disagree: How many years are you willing to give these coaches and what will it take for you to determine whether or not they will ever get it done in Blacksburg?

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

If you watched our defense in 2018 and we had all the same guys coming back, and expected to win 10 games.....then I need your kool aid.

It's not a stretch to think that crappy schedule + improved offense should have netted us 2 more wins than we had even with no improvement on D.
Before the season, Duke and BC were considered locks and yet those were big ole losses. Even in retrospect, you could make the argument that BC and LOLUVa should have been wins but for a key mistake or two.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Maybe not 10 but I certainly expected better. That's how college football works. Aside from a small percentage of players, most guys aren't great as freshmen and sophomores and they get better the more they play.

VT Class of '12 (MSE), MVBone, Go Hokies!

I suppose my problem isn't with what we think, hope, dream, desire or even expect. It is the whole idea of what is "acceptable". To me, that smacks of an entitled position. As for this past year, I never thought 10 wins was a benchmark, especially with Willis starting. Other than Willis starting, which we still don't know the reasoning that led to that, we were damn near in the ACCCG, but I think it was our players that underperformed. The coaches have yet to attempt a pass, or make a tackle, and I doubt they're not trying as hard as they can to help our players improve.

Are you justified in your frustrations? Yes, I was frustrated more than once this season. Is it "okay" for you to complain? Of course it is, I complain as well. What I don't do is pick a number and call anything less unacceptable. There are too many variables involved, not all on the coaching, and we aren't privy to all of the moving parts involved, and no, I don't think that's a problem like so many here seem to think.

It's just my way of approaching, experiencing and then living with college football in general, I know not everyone shares my approach, but to believe anything less than 10 and a Champy game is unacceptable is certainly a recipe for discontent. Have at it, though. You're not alone.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

How many years are you willing to give these coaches and what will it take for you to determine whether or not they will ever get it done in Blacksburg?

My opinion is that after the 2021 season Fuente will have had two years of more experienced teams, hopefully three years of Hooker at QB meaning the first time at VT that a QB has started multiple seasons under Fuente, an experienced o-line, the '21 recruiting class hopefully with DD & some other 4* players, and we'll see who's coming in for '22.

At that point, Whit will have much more information to evaluate the long term health of the program.

I'd like to see at least 9.

The real question is if we win 10 games does Fu get a contract extension...

I think it's only worth giving him a contract extension if he beats Clemson. And my opinion is that he won't even earn the opportunity to beat them. Hope I'm wrong.

If a tree falls in Scott Stadium does it make a sound?

This is year 5 of the Fuente era. The only Beamer player on the team could be Tyrell Smith if he gets a 6th year. Fuente was brought in here to elevate the program and bring an offensive mindset and results on that side of the ball. So my expectation is he elevates the program, so don't lose to BC and Duke. Here are the games we should win- no excuses.

Liberty
North Alabama
Georgia Tech
Miami
Boston College
UVA

Middle Tennessee (lolwut)
Duke
UNC
Pitt

I'll give at Louisville and Penn State at home as toss ups. If he loses both of those, I won't have too much heartburn. If I have to read on this board how Liberty is a tough out because of their former great SEC coach, or MTSU is a tough place to play, or North Alabama has big tall WRs, I'm going to puke.

This

This year - 10 wins, assuming one of those is against N Alabama.

I am not a Fuente apologist, and I agree that 9 or more wins seems reasonable next season. But I can't help but think of Nebraska when I see this board saying Fuente needs to be fired if he doesn't win 9 or 10 and go to ACCCG. Nebraska got rid of Solich when he was winning 9 games every year and they haven't been able to get back to that level since.

I am with many on this board, that say it is put up or shut up time for Fuente, but I try to temper that a bit with thoughts of Nebraska. For that reason, I want to see 2020 play out before making any concrete ultimatums.

You can't run a winning program being scared like that. We shouldn't be looking at 8-5 seasons thinking "this is good enough, it could be worse" because other programs run themselves differently. Also, the product we need to win the ACC Coastal pales to what was necessary to win the old Big XII or B1G

Correct. Winning the ACC requires offense and defense. Not one or the other.

Agreed, but if it were that easy, everyone would be changing coaches and getting to 9 wins. If Whit thinks Fuente is the coach to get us where we want to be, let's not be in too big of a rush to push him out the door. Hopefully we will be sitting here in 5 years thanking Whit for not firing Fuente after year 4 because we will be polishing our 2024 NC trophy.

I agree you can't run a program scared. But you are also assuming the current staff cant make changes of their own to improve versus a complete overhaul. It is usually a grass is greener type thing with fans when in reality you just have to wait for it to rain and then eat the grass on your side of the fence. I think Whit believes this too but if the fanbase gets too hot, his hand will be forced. So, yeah Fuente has to show growth and improvement but he doesn't need a 10 win bar thrown at him in January.

"I am probably too rational to be here"

It depends on how the games look - if we lose some by 3 or something to Miami, Penn State, Pitt, UNC based off some fluke in tough games, its different than getting blown out by Duke and losing to Penn State and UVA .

For me, to bring some enthusiasm back for the program I'd like to see our offense fully materialize. Theres been glimpses, but I would be okay even with 8 wins if our offense was consistently unstoppable.

A top 15 offense would do a lot to keep the majority of fans from storming the gate.

Im not expecting Hamilton to be Bud Foster, but we have a lot of defensive pieces coming back so hopeful for a solid one.