July 2020 Recruiting Discourse Thread

For higher-level discussion of Virginia Tech recruiting trends and broader conversation regarding the overall college football recruiting landscape and other schools' classes and commits.

The other monthly recruiting thread is used to share information regarding VT-specific targets, including PWOs, scholarship offers, visits, camps, and general news pertaining to those targets.

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Comments

Did Georgia and OSU back off Grimes? I mean way before all the momentum to UNC seemed to start? Those 2 seemed like the clear leaders for him (and his dad)

His dad is buddy buddy with Dre Bly.

And that ended up being the most important part, who his dad got along with best.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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And our CB room is loaded /S

UNC just beat them head to head. Dre Bly was apparently the x-factor.

UNC is slightly becoming a pain in the neck especially when it comes to recruiting.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

Rumor is Dre Bly is being set up to become coach.

I think there is a lot of excitement about UNC now. We'll have to see how that pans out. if they have a couple struggling years, then things will definitely change.

So will come down to how the kids develop and what happens on game day.

They aren't paying him like that's the long term plan.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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Let's hope that turns into Randy Shannon if that's the case.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

From what I've read, I totally agree. I think one thing we have to remember too is that Grimes' dad is also friends and sort of a business partner of some sorts in that Game Academy with Zohn Burden. I saw a video the other day where Burden was talking about how he advises these kids during the recruitment process.

Im going to go out on a limb and assume that Burden's probably not a huge fan of VT after being fired. It's probably going to be a hurdle with more recruits down the line from the 757 as long as he is doing this Game Academy.
I'm not saying Burden shouldn't have been let go or anything. I was never impressed with the product he put on the field and he sure didn't recruit the 757 well. Just saying that this is probably going to be a hurdle our guys are going to have to deal with on the recruiting trail down there.

Zohn couldn't be more toxic right now, and that's why he is no longer at VT- or any college coaching. Sad, because he seems like a nice guy. When a young guy with P5 coaching experience who interned in the NFL is now working camps, yeah there's something going on.

He seems like a nice guy, was disappointed it didn't work for him.

I feel like being soft-spoken is not great as a college position coach from a recruiting standpoint. Give me a like Aaron Moorehead who charismatic but will say/do dumb stuff vs. a guy like Zohn.

I feel like being soft-spoken is not great as a college position coach from a recruiting standpoint. Give me a like Aaron Moorehead who charismatic but will say/do dumb stuff vs. a guy like Zohn.

I disagree with this - You want someone who can build relationships and put kids in the NFL. You don't have to be a center of attention extroverted alpha to do that.

That said, I think DC was insinuating that there appears to be some sort of issue with Zohn outside of his personality; it's pretty unusual for someone who appeared to be a fast riser to not even get a shot at a G5 or FCS program. Maybe there's personal reasons for his career move, but without context it looks like there's something else going on.

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Moorehead got Ford and Phillips, and I would argue that both were the most pro-ready in their repitoire when Moorehead was their coach.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

I know this isn't recruiting related but how is Cam not signed to an NFL team yet? His college numbers paired with absolutely dominating the XFL against former NFL talent and fringe NFL players should have been enough to show he is at least worth taking a shot on right??

He was also able to get productivity out of D.J. Coles while he was playing on bum knees. Helluva coach. I miss Moorehead.

I would really disagree with this. I think it's the coordinator's role to build relationships and put kids in the NFL, not the position coach. The position coach should be: recruiting, developing relationships with the players (since they're the ones closest to them), and the ability to convey technique/scheme to players.

Given how short the lifespan is for an average position coach, it's difficult for them to build meaningful relationships or have an NFL track record. Most good position coaches like Torrian Gray end up being coordinators before they get to Torrian's level.

First of all, I maintain that being loud and extroverted is not a must for being a great position coach or recruiter, which was my original point.

Secondly, the way most teams recruit, as I understand it, is that each staff member has a region they cover. It's that coaches job to start building connections in those regions. Once they build a high level relationship, they 'hand off' a recruit to their position coach.

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Zohn is just one of many bridges we've burned throughout the commonwealth over the last 15-20 years. It started under Beamer and we're not exactly actively mending relationships under Fuente.

As much as we bitch and moan about the recruits in Virginia going elsewhere, like Penn St, Florida St, Clemson, and Alabama, the truth of the matter is that the coaches of those schools have been recruiting and cultivating relationships throughout our area as if they were recruiting in their home base, and that was made possible because of the lack of a strong relationship that we had.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Yea like holding camps, coaching clinics, letting in VHSL coaches into games for free. Wait never mind that's what Tech does around the state.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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I'm certainly not plugged in to the whole 757 football scene, but sometimes from the outside it seems like Tech is subject to this whole additional layer of politics and scrutiny down there.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

At the end of the day we just have to realize that Virginia Beach area and Blacksburg area are not much alike at all. We may be close in location only because similarity wise we couldn't be more polar opposite, I also think people need to take into account sometimes kids wanna go out of state and get away from where they're living right now, I've seen it firsthand.

Go for it

It has nothing to do with getting out of state. It has everything thing to do with winning. If you could pick Bama/Clemson/OSU up and move them to Blacksburg the 4/5* cruits would all be about repping the state.... trust me there isn't one kid from the city that wants to live in Clemson or Columbus for 3+ yrs without a chance for a C'ship...

did I miss something about Columbus that makes it qualify as a "not a city"? In terms of major P5 football towns, it's relatively huge

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yeah, Columbus is fairly large...

Miss-typed on Columbus but I stand by my comment on Clemson and Tuscaloosa.... ๐Ÿค“

Well maybe we just stink then. Better throw in the towel. We have done everything we can.

Or accept that a coach is bitter because his LB didn't get a single FBS offer and ran to the paper.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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This response has nothing to do with with the real issue at hand. I respect your hustle though.

It doesn't? One coach was interviewed about Tech staff and in state recruiting. Suddenly the Tech staff has problems with all high coaches. Where is that evidence? Recruiting being crap in state isn't new, isn't limited to this staff or the last one. I don't know how to fix the issues but I don't think it's because the staff isn't trying and doing everything it can to recruit the state.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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Suddenly the Tech staff has problems with all high coaches.

Where is that evidence?

Recruiting being crap in state isn't new, isn't limited to this staff or the last one.

You just answered your own question in a comment where you're trying to argue the opposite.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

you're reading a talking point (the norm woods article) into the comment that was never made

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yea like holding camps, coaching clinics, letting in VHSL coaches into games for free.

That's like listing out operational work in your year end review when someone asks why you deserve a promotion. No, that's the expected work, what are we doing above and beyond that.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

This one hit home for me. I get Fireman's point; our coaches are trying to connect, but at the end of the day, it's just not working (to the degree that our fanbase expects it to). It's tough to decouple if it's a problem with the staff or if it's a problem with VT (probably a bit of both).

If you're looking for some optimism, the 247 guys said on a recent pod that JHam, TnT, and Ryan Smith are doing a really good job of (re)building relationships all over VA. Said they expect a lot of VA guys in the 2021 recruiting class, and that they expect improvement in the state over time.

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I guess this is kind of the light bulb moment for money and staff (for me at least). Said in another post 3 people are rebuilding the relationships in VA. Of those 3 one is our DC. It sounds like to me we do not have the resources to go above and beyond. We don't have the "love" to show with all the assistants that Clemson, PSU, UNC can send in. We need our guys out hustling every where they can not just kicking it on the couches of local coaches and the house of Grimes. Hopefully one day we get there. This is a we scratch your back you scratch ours but both sides are being stubborn. VT is not showing enough love while battling the bad mouthing of the "757" and neither want to give in.

Penn St, Florida St, Clemson, and Alabama

I think they've been cultivating wins plus national stature more than relationships to land said recruits.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

This. I'm pretty sure if we're winning like those programs we land a lot of the talent that's going out of state, establish a greater market share of brand recognition on the east coast and are at least trending nationally.

There is no greater repair for recruiting then a bunch of Ws.

HTHokie93

Decline started when Cavanaugh retired.

It took...checks calendar... one day for the recruiting news thread to devolve well past news. Nice.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

We did it!

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

I was going to make a snarky comment about this being the Discourse thread, but then I checked the other one

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

But this is the discourse thread, not the news thread.

EDIT: I hadn't gone to the news thread... then I did... and now I get it.

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And I wanted to make sure I didn't clog up the news thread with complaining about the non-news posts.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

Evan Watkins switched his VT crystal ball to Louisville for Ahmari Huggins-Bruce. Since he commits tomorrow, and the last non-Louisville holdout has flipped, who is next up on the board for VT (if we still need one at all, I think we need more than JJ, but I'm no expert)? Any thoughts, insider information?

Probably this guy. There's a lot of others but I know we've been recruiting TJ for a while consistently.

Right, I remember his name being mentioned now. I guess I just got confused cause Huggins vs. Huggins-Bruce. Another Keonta/Keontae Jenkins mistake on my part.

He's got height and speed, and West End can fill out the rest of weight for P5 football.

former West End grillmaster checking in.

Can Confirm

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

For those who mix them up, this will help:

But he's not a joke. You don't make jokes about him, TJ Huggins. You don't play him as a joke or recruit him as a joke or recruit him like the Ahmari. He's not like the Ahmari. You go through the game and your receivers get sort of bunched up but he has this height so you can just get the first down easily. Yeah, thanks you for asking about the receiver and thinking he's cool- TJ Huggins. Yeah, I gotta go. Think about what I said about TJ Huggins.

So much for that comment that Fuente made about players that VT had in the boat and how he was justifying our slow start to the hyped up 2021 class because of those silent commits.

Sigh.

So much for Fuente himself hyping up this class.

Is it 100% clear if Fuente was actually referring to silent commits or if he was referring to commits he feels are unheralded and/or underrated?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

If it was the latter, the guy had to twist himself into a pretzel to justify it. Same with his comment about silent commits.

In response to those that want to remove CJF, overhaul the staff, and switch recruiting strategies, here are some points to consider:

1. CJF has an absurd buyout that currently sits at $12.5 million until Dec. 16, 2020 and drops $2.5 million each year on Dec. 16th until 2023, where it will continually be $2 million after each season. Like him or not, VT is attached to CJF until at least after the 2023 season when his buyout drops to $2 million.

2. CJF JUST got his own Defensive staff in place who have been cited in multiple recruiting articles and podcasts for being high energy, high character, NFL experienced, and most importantly, former VT guys who came from VA. They all just started in their new positions during an off-season with a national pandemic, no camps, no visits, and an extended dead period.

3. The 2018 and 2019 classes were right at a Top 25 level (that each yielded seven 4* recruits), which IMO is where VT's range historically belongs since we are not a blue blood and lack the financial resources of those schools competing for the Top 15 recruiting classes. Point is, most of CJF's staff can recruit because we've seen it AND they have only added more support.

4. If you study all of CJF's four recruiting classes (not counting the 2016 class since he was hired late November of 2015), you really see just how thin the DL player rankings were, which mostly ended up being filled out by lower rated players in each class. In fact, the two higher rated DL recruits during the CJF era (Wooten and Bryant) came from the 2020 class and were brought in by Lechtenberg. That was a problem that CJF has addressed (TnT).

5. VT only has 11 commits (currently #54 in team rankings) with >6 months left until Early Signing Day. That is a long way to go to fill up the remaining 13-14 spots left in the 2021 class. This is especially the case given the possibility of Early Signing Day being extended into the spring due to COVID-19, the forecast of de-commitments if Official Visits are finally allowed, and the boost from a solid (expected) VT season.

The infrastructure is in place. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Wait and see.

Wow wow wow who is arguing to remove CJF??? Believe it or not, you can be critical of the staff without wanting them replaced, or at least recognizing that it would be a bad move to replace them now.

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I think you meant "Whoa, whoa, whoa..." there.

But then again, I don't know. "Wow wow wow" kind of works too.

Leonard. Duh.

Wow wow wow who is arguing to remove CJF???

Can I introduce you to basically every discourse thread (at a minimum) over the last 7-8 months?

There's a difference between 'Fuente is doing a bad job recruiting' and 'we need to replace Fuente.' I think 90% of posters here understand that replacing Fuente is not practical.

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VT's recruiting will always be about hitting evaluations vs. pulling star-power. Going back to 2003 which was the beginning of a great 7-8 year run for VT - their class ranking never consistently exceeded #25. Tyrod was a 99 - 5-star and his 2007 class was #26 with that 2010 team being once of the most talented ever.

When people talk about VT not having a recruiting "brand" it is what it always has been. Recruit tough players who fit the system that want to be there. Maybe that's why we've only had 2-3 teams who could talent-wise contend for a title, but it's what we have to live with. Thinking that pulling a Grimes or Leigh will change that is false hope because Vick, Tyrod, Kevin Jones, etc. didn't spark that effect and they flat out won games.

Outside of an inherited short year in 2016 and low scholarships in 2020 - Fuente has put together classes ranked #26 (2017), 24 (2018), and 26 (2019). They have also done a strong eval job on the 4 and 3 star guys they've brought in - the Freshman contributions last year and talent on the 2020 team speaks to that. Beamer missed on too many evals late in his career and it sank him.

Personally - I love VT's talent brand of finding 2-3 star guys like Kam Chancellor, Cody Grimm, Duane Brown, Kyle Fuller, the Edmunds Brothers, and others and grooming them into stars. When I was at VT from 2004-2008 the teams were phenomenal and there was always an underdog mentality that seemed to unify the team and fan-base. There were also many disappointments during those elite years (coughMattRyancough), but we still kept coming back.

In 2020- I don't know what to think. Fans seems to be dying to become something we never were - and for what?

That said, I think Fuente and his staff gets it. He knows what he was walking into and seems to share many of the same values that Beamer instilled. Personally, I think the program is in good hands and another 2003-2011 runs of 10+ wins annually can begin in 2020.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

I agree with most of your post, but I am genuinely curious about this statement:

When people talk about VT not having a recruiting "brand" it is what it always has been.

I've been spending the last several months looking over old recruiting data for a project.

It seems like we used to overachieve with regards to talent based on another tactic.

It seems like there are two drastically different approaches to recruiting- target JUCOs to get more talent on the field (and through your system) quicker. Or target Prep players and utilize redshirts to grow your own talent in-house.

The likelihood of being in either camp seems to be little more than geographic convenience. Throughout most of the country (Midwest, West & Southeast), access to Junior colleges means more schools struggling to build classes will pull from the JC ranks.

In the NE and East coast however, many schools had more access to Prep Schools. So schools like Maryland, VT & BC were working hard at bringing in Prep players. (Beamer was at the forefront of this; VT had the most Prep players during the modern era, and our last JuCo signed was back in 2001 or something).

The thing about Prep school talent- that talent pool appears to have all but dried up within the past decade. There used to be 40-50 FBS signees a season coming out of Prep schools. In the last couple of seasons, that number has drastically lowered; now it looks like we're at about 10 a season.

I'm not sure exactly why this is. (The rise of IMG Academy maybe?) But even in state, we used to have 2 Prep schools to draw from; but only FUMA has been producing FBS talent for the past decade.

Regarding your statement above- is it possible we're seeing a shift away from Prep talent in the country? If so, I would reason that Virginia Tech would likely be at the forefront of the affected schools.

It appears we've shifted gears under Fuente- and rightly so if this has been happening. But we might be seeing a slightly new focus going forward on who we're targeting and how we're getting there.

The prep school shift is an interesting observation - but I think we still have the talent on this 2020 team relative to other VT teams historically so the impact is minimal in my opinion. The JUCO or transfer route is a bang-for-your-buck decision which I like - get mature players who have a chance to impact you quickly and fill specific needs.

When I refer to a recruiting "brand" - it is more about a segment of VT fans thinking kids simply don't want to come to VT and that there is no cache. i.e. UNC is Nike and VT is Sketchers.

Yes - most 5 and high-end 4 stars from VA or elsewhere are going to have VT competing against OSU, BAMA, LSU, Clemson, PSU etc. which puts us at a disadvantage brand-wise.

My point with the brand comment is that what VT is living on the recruiting trail now was always the case and it's not some recent failure - which is how it gets treated by certain fans. It gets magnified by social media and 247 - but nothing has changed. From 2003 - 2010 when elite VT teams were built - we got the top player in VA 2 out of 8 years (Macho and Tyrod). We got our fair share of the top 30 in-state under Beamer, and we still do given we have 9-10 key contributors on the 2020 team from VA.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.

Thanks for clarifying- I'm definitely on board with this.

Not getting Naquan Brown was disappointing, but I'm not sure if our coaches actually were pursuing him that hard at the end... I think TnT have a prototype of what they want our defensive line to look like, and I'm not sure Brown fits that mold. I would like to keep any 4 stars from the state of VA in VA if at all possible, but it's not necessarily the end of the world. For instance, getting Joel Caleb was exciting, but he didn't really fit anywhere. 247 has backed off in recent weeks on Brown, so I don't think it is the end of the world yet. Now, if he goes to LSU and kills it, which I really hope he does, I will certainly change my tune.

Some will disagree, and that's okay. You're not going to hear much of an argument from me because I am a little disappointed, but I think this isn't a case of us getting big dogged as much as it this staff identifying that he might not fit the mold and backing off a bit. I'm as disappointed as anyone in this staff's recent recruiting performance, but I'm not sure this can fit in that.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

Seems like there is alot of chatter that we weren't really pursuing Brown hard, although all seems to be hearsay rather than hard fact.

The other obvious question is if we not pursuing him...was it because we didn't see him as a fit or because the writing has been on the wall that he's wanted to go to LSU for many months now..?

Seems like the kid was waiting and waiting for a "commitable offer" from LSU all along. Our staff may have figured that out, and decided not to expend extra resources pursuing someone who didn't really want to be here. I think the tweet from Carroll last week essentially calling him out signified it was well-known he wasn't going to be a Hokie.

While I think there are certainly some questions about where he fits in at the next level, it's hard for me to accept that the defending National Champions had a spot for him on the roster, yet we didn't.

This is recruiting. There are no hard facts.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

There are rarely hard facts...but that is part of my point.

Maybe we were not pursuing him hard recently but who is to say that is because our Staff didn't see him as a good fit?

That might be true, but it also is the narrative that has the most beneficial view for VT.

Now there are posts on the News thread claiming that he isn't a take at LSU and has been dishonest with their Staff...before making accusations like this it would be nice to have more than vague message board rumors to base it on.

Otherwise, seems like a lot of sour grapes and honestly not fair to the kid.

From what I have seen, he was always bolting to LSU if they offered. I think he is more than talented enough to contribute on our roster even if he isnt the prototype. But how hard do you pursue him if he doesn't really want to be here? I hope for his sake the offer remains good on the LSU end and he doesnt go the way of Tank Land. I wish him the best.

"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

Yeah, he wanted to go to LSU.

That hearsay about Tech not pursuing him would make a little more sense if he committed to, say, Maryland. Or Pitt. But the defending national champs, with a commitable offer? It's a rough look.

He won't be signing there, IMO. They've never seen him in person.

This tweet, from December, continues to age like fine wine.

How so?

He forgot the sizeable /S after his post

I think it's worth saying that DC is not being totally unreasonable to have a hard time believing we stopped recruiting Naqaun when he commits to LSU. Hopefully we can all acknowledge that from the outside looking in that story doesn't make a ton of sense. I know there are insiders who vouch for this, but I understand people having a hard time believing that when he commits to LSU. Regardless of whether or not he ends up there, right now Naquan is verbally committed to the defending national champions, and we've been in a bit of a rut recruiting wise over the past year.

My thing is if your resources (coaching staff and $$$$) are scarce, why are you gong to continue to apply them to a situation where you know the outcome is not going to be a commitment to your program? By all indications it sounded like LSU for a very long time. Why is it so hard to believe that VT backed off?

I think there are two different arguments being made, one that we backed off because it looked like he was LSU bound, another that we backed off because he's too small/not good enough/not a fit. To your point I think it makes sense to not go after someone who's probably going elsewhere, but that's a different argument than "he's not good enough/not a fit". To me it seems the argument most are making is the latter.

1) You'd continue pursuing him for the same reason you might interview for a job you aren't going to get- benefits down the road. Maybe things change at LSU and he's looking elsewhere in November. Maybe you blow him away during your pitch. Maybe he's got teammates in upcoming classes and you can impress the kid so he'll put in a good word with his friends and make things easier next year. There's reasons to sometimes fight a losing battle.

2) It's one thing to back off because he wasn't interested, or because he's just not a fit for the defense (which would contribute to him not being interested). That's at least justifiable. The impression from people posting about it I got is that VT backed off because they didn't think he was good enough. That's a tough sell.

I believe that P5 offers are the best indicator of a competitive recruit and overall class. I wanted to look at how 2021 stacks up to the disaster that was 2020. It's a rough exercise, because 2021 offers could still be incoming (we better hope so, based on these numbers). I looked at just HS signees โ€“ not transfers โ€“ and their P5 offers per 247. Another problem is that you have to go on the assumption that all of these were committable offers, and that is doubtful in my opinion. Anyway, here's a snapshot of where Tech stands, and the other teams most often associated with Tech commits:

2021 class โ€“ 11 commits โ€“41 combined P5 offers not including VT โ€“ 3.72 P5 offers/recruit

P5 offers โ€“ BC (4), Pitt (4), Duke (4), UVA (4), West Virginia (3), Syracuse (3), Wake (2), Rutgers (2), Louisville (2), Maryland (2), USCe (2), Georgia Tech, Indiana, Kansas, Miss State, NC State, Minnesota, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, UCLA

2020 class โ€“ 14 commits โ€“67 combined P5 offers not including VT โ€“ 4.78 P5 offers/recruit

P5 offers โ€“ BC (3), Kansas (3), Mizzou (3), LSU (3), Arizona (3), Indiana (3), Vanderbilt (3), Syracuse (3), Arkansas (3), Purdue (2), Rutgers (2), Georgia Tech (2), Colorado State (2), Arizona State (2), Maryland (2), Miss State (2), Colorado (2), Kansas State (2), Texas Tech (2), Utah State (2), Oklahoma (2), Oregon (2), Wisconsin, Illinois, Miami, Michigan State, Nebraska, TCU, USCw, Florida, USCe, UVA, Iowa State, Cal, Utah, Oklahoma State

It's worth noting that Bailey, Bryant and Wooten combined for 48 of the 67 offers in the 2020 class.

I'm sure Covid and inability for a ton of fringe '21 recruits to get over the top and garner more offers from in person evals is skewing your numbers a bit. Also it's July, highly likely that a few of our current commits will gain offers from other P5 programs as they begin to miss on top targets. I would like to see this metric on signing day though. I do agree that it's a good indicator, appreciate the information.

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

That's a good overview, leg for putting that together.

It's telling that of our 11 current verbals, none of them have an offer from a team that finished ranked last year.

And in the 2020 class, only a few offers came from ranked teams...likely the three you mentioned.

At that rate, we better hope our coaching staff is much better than our opponents, otherwise we will be a .500 team for a while.

Do you have this data for previous classes? I'm wondering what the average is in normal recruiting years. Also wondering how median varies from average in this case.

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I did the legwork in different threads for some of our class (this comment and this comment), but this more than anything makes me think that Fuente's comment about "we have guys committed that nobody knows about" was about under-the-radar prospects and not about silent commits

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Not to be rude but I don't feel like that article actually said anything at all. UNC is following Clemson's model, which is to go after highly ranked players. Uhh... ok. VT has gone after highly ranked players and been in Top 5 and 10 lists but never taken off. That part isn't addressed at all yet it is the crux of the issue.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

It still seems like the two biggest things that happened for UNC last year was 1) return of the Mack and 2) winning/competitive football games.

We aren't in a position to bring in a flashy new coach, or a returning legend - no budget for buyouts plus we don't exactly have a lot of former head coaches do we? But, we can get back to winning. Duke was the bottoming out last year, but things actually started to get better in the offseason. We pulled in DD, Bryant, and Wooten late. We stopped getting drunk Herbie sadness videos. It got better.

Yes it has leveled off, been more disappointing than exciting, but there is still a long way to go. We're still in it for some game changers. A good season (which I think means at least 9 regular season wins, a coastal division champion, and being at least competitive in the ACC title/bowl game) will go a long way.

I don't take your comment as rude at all. Unlike many on here my skin is not thin, you didn't say anything offensive and all of our opinions should be heard! Keep on rocking and Go Hokies my friend! I just thought it was an interesting article and my questions are around why UNCheat is able to have success like Clemson.

Jeremiah 29:11 and Go Hokies!

I hear you. It's a starting point worthy of discussion but I think the author's observations were very superficial (essentially left it at UNC is recruiting well and that's right out of Clemson's playbook) instead of digging deeper for tangible evidence of how they are mimicking Clemson.

The part about getting highly rated recruits on campus being important and then selling that something big must be happening because you have highly rated recruits visiting your program was the closest we got. We've seen our own coaches take that approach only for it to fall flat though and I'm sure nearly every coach tries that approach but obviously it doesn't always work.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

the author should've mentioned the thing both schools have in common...charismatic coaches who are great salesman

940 - Any news out of the Jacksonville area? Any new Interest towards VT?

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

Anybody else notice in Naquon Browns commitment video he's wearing a VT Hard, Smart, Tough wrist band the entire time? ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿคฆ๐Ÿปโ€โ™‚๏ธ

Quarterback Drake Maye flipped from Alabama. Linebacker Ra Ra Dillworth also chose the Heels over the Tide. Prior to switching allegiances, offensive guard Jared Wilson was a Georgia commit. Recent defensive end commit Jahvaree Ritzie also trolled Georgia at his announcement by first revealing a UGA shirt before removing it in favor of Carolina Blue garment. Mack and staff were already on pace to complete one of UNC's best recruiting classes in the internet-era, if not in UNC history.

What an incredible paragraph! Thanks for the propaganda link.

Compare their 2021 class to their previous classes, they're not wrong.

UNC turned into a recruiting superpower in 2021, it's not something to be taken lightly. We're fucked if we can't start pulling our weight on the recruiting trail.

Ok player

Quick... list all the reasons that VT can never hope to compete with UNC on the recruiting trail and tell me how they've always had the ability to recruit better than VT but they were just waiting on the right coach... and then tell me how coaching really doesn't have much of an impact on recruiting.

Am I doing this right?

Or just care less about what UNC is doing.

I'm really going to enjoy beating UNC this year in football so some of you closet UNC fans stop perpetuating their propaganda here

Don't worry, it's not really a big deal since they haven't proven anything on the field up to this point.

Heavy /S

Is coronavirus over yet?

BTW heard Maye was on the struggle bus at the Elite 11 finals

Do go on...

Did fine with in pocket throws, but struggled throwing on the run and outside the pocket.

He apparently had a bad first day, but graded 2nd the next day.

I haven't seen enough to weigh in myself, but there are def people who think he has the highest ceiling in this class. They definitely only got him because of the family connection, but I don't think the Elite11 is enough to start suggesting they whiffed on QB this class.

I don't pay attention to elite 11 itself but saw numerous tweets and reddit comments about some controversy at elite 11 and how they rated the QB's.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Yeah, there was a lot of arguing on reddit about how and why Caleb Williams won the overall competition, because the overall award was based on 75% junior film and only 25% the actual competition. I only went into that thread to laugh at how upset people get about which HS QB is better.

Either way it's meaningless to try and downplay/up-play UNC getting Drake Maye based on the Elite 11 camp.

Ol' Jimbo got dinged for recruiting violations.

This goes in discourse right? Recruiting news about other schools?

This goes in discourse right? Recruiting news about other schools?

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Yes, this is the right thread. Great job, given how bad the news thread got yesterday lol.

This is interesting, and there are some rumors LSU and Georgia got implicated in this somehow as well.

Just making sure we wanted it here and not in its own thread.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Well considering he got told on for this kind of thing literally a week into his tenure this isn't very surprising lol. What would be surprising is if they actually get hit with any major penalties

Most of the penalties were last year.

I'm almost half surprised one of the penalties wasn't "stay home for the coronavirus".

Yeah, but he didn't say 800% committed.

Pathetically bad miss by our staff. Inexcusable

Any idea how we keep missing on our targets, LA? Seems like the coaches are struggling to close.

No idea unfortunately. Worried that the only way to fix it is a hard reset

A friend and fellow Hokie alum were discussing this the other day and I stated to him then and in the past that the best long-term action would have been for Baylor to hire Fuente this past offseason.

- Recruiting impact would have been negligible (barring significant late term improvement for this '21 class)
- Would be out from under the CJF contract
- Have a coach demand program improvements as part of his hiring (staff, facilities, wave pool, whatever)
- Re-energize and potentially unify our fanbase

As it stands now, Fuente will either continue to not meet expectations and look for a way out (or be shown out - buyout depending) or he will exceed expectations and be poached. Either way, VT is looking for a new coach and the program is looking at being saddled with a below average talent level compared to our competitors. CJF likely won't be here when the bill comes due for the staff's sub-par recruiting efforts. Baylor not taking Fuente hurt the program for the next few years more than anything else.

I hope I'm wrong but that is how I see our cards currently.

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That still leaves the question who we would replace him with. Which objectively there are very few quality replacements. In my opinion there really isn't anyone available I would take a chance on over Fu, besides like Urban Meyer (wouldn't do it) or Art Briles (too much baggage)

I still think another certain job down in Texas is going to come open in the next 1-2 years and CJF would likely be the top candidate. Hey they've already gotten a head start on scouting Texas talent too.

If they keep recruiting like this, i am afraid the thought of another school hiring him away from us is a pipe dream

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

What school in Texas is going to hire a coach who has won the ACC Coastal once in 5+ years??? Texas Tech maybe? SMU? I could see Houston if Dana doesn't work out. Texas ain't hiring Fuente. A&M ain't hiring him. Baylor just turned him down. I might be able to see TCU hiring him if he has back to back 10 win, coastal-winning seasons, but that feels unlikely to me.

From what I understand, Fuente is highly respected by other coaches. However, right now, it's not going to be easy for an AD to sell him to a fan base.

Twitter me

Fuente will either continue to not meet expectations and look for a way out (or be shown out - buyout depending) or he will exceed expectations and be poached.

Replace Fuente with the name of any coach in the entire nation except maybe a few loyal alums and this statement holds.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I don't think this is a huge miss. We were luke-warm on him and kept going back and forth (that can't sit well with the kid). He was view as speedy, but undersized, concerns over how much he would grow and his durability at P5 level. Think he was a take, but not top priority.

We put the K in Kwality

This is an incorrect take. Face the music.

I know this is a discourse thread...but my take is not incorrect... Sorry for not projecting your doom and gloom and every recruit that goes somewhere else is a huge miss. My comments are facts: he is undersized and there are concerns about him being durable at P5 level. My information is trustworthy, I stand by that.

I did not expect him to commit, believe the staff felt the same way.

We put the K in Kwality

You have bad info. I'm really not trying to be a jerk but I'm not sure how else I can say it.

Go hokies

My info is from inside Merryman. I would say that's pretty solid source. The kid is 160 lbs (meaning he's really like 150), not sure how you can say that's bad information.

We put the K in Kwality

He was a top priority and has been for months. He committed to the staff several times but never went public. Your info is inaccurate

Scott Satterfield offense >>> Justin Fuente offense. I know I'm looking at this in a vacuum, but dang, If I'm a young skill player that isn't quite top tier P-5 level, I'm playing for Coach Satterfield and that high powered offense all day long.

Is coronavirus over yet?

Weird how Satterfield's offense only put up 13 against Kentucky while Fuente's vastly inferior offense put up 30.

Against 6 common opponents, VT averaged 31 ppg and Louisville averaged 31.3 ppg so it seems to me that the offenses performed very similarly.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I know what the stats are, I did happen to take a look. However we also know that we all can have a tendency to view those stats in a vacuum. Satterfields offense is explosive and exciting and it is those things with a horribly OL and a ton of youth on the field.

Beyond that, and I didn't mention this earlier, there's a ton of energy around that program right now. Some of it is due to the "newness" of things, but most of it is because of the head coach, a man who is full of energy. His team represents that on the field, particularly on the offensive side of the ball.

Is coronavirus over yet?

Literally the only thing Satterfield has over Fuente is newness. Basically in every other category Fuente holds the edge, except in this particular case the recruit's Dad played at Louisville

For the last time, AHB's dad did not play for louisville. That was TJ Quinn.

AHB first committed to the staff in the fall and then privately confirmed his commitment at least two additional times.

Lol got that from other commenters on here, my bad

Do you have any additional insight into what the holdup was? Seems pretty bizarre for a guy to commit 3 times but won't go public. From what I can tell, the coaches tried being patient and then tried a little urgency (commit or get off the pot), yet neither worked. So what was holding him back from committing and what approach should the staff have taken?

I ask because it's hard not to think that he just didn't want to come to VT and was placeholding with that type of behavior (similar to what people are speculating with Jordan Poole and NC State).

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of kids were giving "silent commits" to schools that they were pretty sure about, but holding off on committing because they hoped to still get in official visits. Now that it has become clear that campus visits just aren't happening before slots fill up kids are having to take leaps of faith.

I could also see how coaches pressuring kids to get in the boat before they can do their due diligence might throw up red flags to those kids, leading them elsewhere.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

I think at one point he was dragging his feet trying to feel out if he would maybe land a SCar offer. However, I believe there were other things going on as well that I am not certain about. That said, I have heard that he was a silent for a long time.

From the admittedly limited perspective of a VT fan who has followed recruiting somewhat closely for around 15 years, it seems that a "silent commit" who doesn't go public within a few days or set a specific date (birthday, mom's birthday, grandma's anniversary... there are all kinds of weird dates used to ascribe meaning to commit dates) actually has a worse chance of signing than any given recruit where we are in the final 3.

EDIT: I knew I shouldn't have left out "random holiday" as a reason for a commit date. Welcome aboard, DJ Harvey!

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

This gives me sads even more. SMH I mean at this point I guess I hope we can pull a few of the key guys left but I have little confidence the staff can hold on to anyone we do get by signing day. It's OK though, I have been told that every school has their top four or five commits (silent or public) decommit. If only we could convince a few to sign here I would feel better but if we can't convince dudes to stay, how are we gonna convince them to leave somewhere else (besides winning 10-11 games, which I am also told is the key to recruiting - not for everyone else just us)

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If he stayed silent, he was never sure. Silent commits mean I don't have the heart to tell you I am still looking.

"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

Any chance we flip him back to the good guys later in the cycle?

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As of this morning, Tech is once again in last place in the ACC with overall class ranking per 247. It's worth noting that this is during a period where early commitments are happening twice as frequently as they did last year across college football, and that this supposed to be a full-size class.

I don't say this to make excuses or absolve the staff from what has been a disappointing start to the 2021 class - but - isn't it also a record setting year for early decommittments as well?

So much of recruiting is contextual. The fact that a lot of kids are committing without setting foot on campus is big. There are questions about if/when/how football will be played in 2020, and that is big. There is a recruiting dead period that runs basically to the beginning of Week 0 games.

This year is not going to be normal. Honestly, last year's class wasn't exactly normal either, but this year will truly be different. We're stuck in neutral and a lot of the things we were counting on to build momentum currently don't exist. No spring game, no visits, etc.

I still think things will get better, but I think it's more necessary that we find a way to make a splash and build momentum, so that we can keep the kids we have, bring in more, and take some chances flipping the numerous soft-verbals that are out there.

Edited for typo

You would think for they money they are making, they would have either A) a backup/alternate plan in place or B) a quicker dynamic/reactionary plan to the changing environment.

I'm all for waiting for signing day before getting out the torches and pitchforks but disappointment in our staff (especially the ones that have been here for years) as it relates to recruiting is more than justified at this point.

Caveat - I love our current players and fully support the '21 guys coming on board to be Hokies.

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Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

This is extremely disheartening. Even Beamer at his worst years didn't sign classes this bad. And we already saw how far those classes set our program back. I didn't think I could have less confidence in the staff than I did last year, but here we are

"The Big Ten is always using excuses to cancel games with us. First Wisconsin. Then Wisconsin. After that, Wisconsin. The subsequent cancellation with Wisconsin comes to mind too. Now Penn State. What's next? Wisconsin?" -HorseOnATreadmill

Its early. Too early for this. The 2019 class was really bad for a while then we signed a bunch of absolute dudes right at the end. Listen to French and LA about this class, the rest is twitter noise.

Yeah, I'll remain cautiously optimistic, but the shear volume of whiffs is disheartening

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

The lows haven't been this low before though. You're talking a massive, massive turnaround even to have a decent class at this point. We would dip down to 35-40 and end up 25ish/top 3 or 4 in the ACC in the past. You don't go from sub 50 nationally and bottom of the ACC to a good class barring a miraculous turnaround. Keep in mind other schools will get other recruits too.

Yeah but using the 247 calculator if you add Harvey, Hollifield, Williams, and Poole we're back solidly in the top 35. If we get Leigh or Gilliam It's a top 25 class. We've also got a decent shot at Watson Nelson and Miller.

Now sure that's a good amount of ifs but we haven't even played a single game yet and we're still sliding off negative momentum to end an otherwise good season. We win games we'll get the recruits

A lot of ifs and assumes other classes don't improve/get more recruits. It's a big uphill battle at this point. Possible, but not likely.

Yeah lotta ifs, I factored in other teams getting more recruits though

if you add Harvey, Hollifield, Williams, and Poole we're back solidly in the top 35. If we get Leigh or Gilliam It's a top 25 class

This is the equivalent of being down 12 in basketball with 3 minutes left. Yea, you can get 3 stops, hit 4 3's, and drive to the lane twice to win, and we've seen this happen before. BUT, as a fan I'm never optimistic when we're down 12 win 3 minutes left.

Not to mention the fact that a heroic effort like that would get us into the top 25... This year was supposed to be a program elevating class - Fuente himself said this. I know there's a lot going on right that makes the situation hazy, but the fact that we're hoping just to be a top 30 class is not good.

We win games we'll get the recruits

I don't buy the 'winning = recruiting' thing. There are so many programs that win a ton but never translate that into a great class (like... VT from 2004-2011). I think it's more about winning the right games, putting guys in the NFL, and building a brand. Yea, winning creates opportunity, but you still have to take advantage of that.

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At this point in 2018, VT had four 4-stars already committed (Bryan Hudson, Ny'quee Hawkins, Jaden Payoute, Tayvion Robinson).

We were told this would be an elite class.

EDIT: Changed 2019 to 2018, because I've been drinking. Meant "at this point in the 2019 class".

Delete

Remember when we were told our recruiting misses in the past were ok because the 2021 class was the one we were set up to dominate?

Yeah, I'm thinking this staff just might not be able to recruit.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

They were able to recruit...and then the 2019 offseason happened. The stink of the SI article isn't going to wash off any time soon.

And that stink came directly from a rotten culture that was created in the locker room while they were busy implementing a my way or the highway coaching style that effectively purged most, if not all, of Beamer's recruits through the transfer portal.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

In the process of purging the Beamer recruits and painting them as troublemakers who were bad for the team culture, the staff managed to poison their relationship with the head coaches and high school teammates of said Beamer recruits. This led to the Hail Mary of chasing kids in Texas, which didn't work because they can Google search in Texas, and has further worsened relations with VA high school coaches. Tell me we aren't whistling past the graveyard.

Oversimplified to the 10th degree. This has zero to do with the kids from 2016 who didn't finish with the team for various reasons. To insinuate this was some con job of "painting them as trouble" is just ridiculous.

Many of the kids who didn't finish had many chances and ultimately it didn't work out due to those kids choices. To act like Frank didn't let some kids go from the program or had others leave the program on their own is to put your head in the sand.

Some of those kids left on their own due to the access that was new (transfer portal) and the temptation of supposed greener pastures. Again, this isn't because the coaches painted them in some way, it is because sometimes kids don't handle change well as well as sometimes changes won't be positive for everyone as new coaches mean new ways of handling things - aka ever had a new boss?

At the end of the day this doesn't absolve the current staff's recruiting misses, but to broad stroke this as some relationship problem solely due to how those kids were handled is missing the point. The current staff is basically all new with several former players - how do you view Jh or DT?

The new staff needs some wins and if they don't win it isn't because of how old players were handled by current or previous coaches. It will be because they couldn't close the deal and effectively sell what they have to sell.

If you look at the combined power 5 experience of the entire staff, maybe it's not necessarily that they don't know how to recruit but just that other schools are using that against them and they don't have a response.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

I'm finally hitting the " I don't have faith in this staff" mode...not getting Huggins-Bruce sucks, even if Louisville made some headway. Its nothing new, but I'm personally hitting that point of wtf.

Can tkp have a mute button like twitter๐Ÿ˜‚

The Army's on Ecstasy
So they say
I read all about it
In USA today
They stepped up urine testing
To make it go away
Because it's hard to kill the enemy
On ol' MDMA

Some of the recent discussions in the Recruiting News thread got me thinking about the stars vs. overall composite rating discussion. So I decided to do a quick analysis of the most highly rated players we had on the offensive roster at any given time. These entries are loosely grouped by position and years on the roster, with the available composite rating in parenthesis. I limited my search to skill positions, QB, RB, WR/TE. For our most recent years, I limited my entries to QB, because they are the highest rated guys on the offensive side of the ball (and b/c my wife told me to come join in the July 4th festivities).

1999-2000 - Michael Vick (N/A, arguably #2 in the country behind Curry)
2000-2002 - Lee Suggs (N/A, highly regarded if memory serves)
2001-2003 - Kevin Jones (.999)
2001-2004 - Bryan Randall (.967)
2003-2005 - Marcus Vick (.991)
2004-2007 - Sean Glennon (.900)
2004-2007 - Eddie Royal (.922)
2007-2010 - Tyrod Taylor (.991)
2008-2010 - Ryan Williams (.979)
2008-2010 - Darren Evans (.888)
2009-2011 - David Wilson (.959)
2009-2012 - D.J. Coles (.892)
2011-2013 - Logan Thomas (.974)
2012-2015 - J.C. Coleman (.911)
2012-2016 - Bucky Hodges (.904)
2012-2015 - Trey Edmunds (.89)
2014-2016 - Isaiah Ford (.881)
2014-2017 - Travon McMillian (.892)
2014-2017 - Cam Phillips (.876)
2015-2020 - Deshawn McClease (.871)
2016 - Jerod Evans (.911)
2017 - Josh Jackson (.877)
2017-present - Jalen Holston (.857)
2017-present - Hendon Hooker (.890)
2018-present - Quincy Patterson (.904)
2018-present - Tre Turner (.927)

I may come back and update this later, but to me, there is a fairly significant drop off that began to occur at the beginning of the decade. Time will tell if we recover from this (we've seen a slight uptick with QP and Tre), but as you can see, it has been several years since we had a high four star or five star on the offensive side of the ball (i.e. someone noticeably above .900). If you look at this list of 247 top all-time recruits for VT, you'll see that there are not too many current names at the top of the list: https://247sports.com/college/virginia-tech/Sport/Football/AllTimeRecruits/

If you cross-reference this with our win-loss record since that time, I think we have an explanation (perhaps one of many) for the dip in production. TLDR: if the overall recruiting class ranking remains roughly the same, you need a non-bust high 4-star recruit on offense to win games.

Happy fourth, and by no means am I married to this conclusion, so please, discuss.

"That's it guys. Let's get out of here. That cold drink's waitin' on us, let's go." - Mike Young after win no. 300.

Yeap - check out this comment I made a couple weeks ago. Leads me to believe that, at a school that recruits like VT, a class's upper-quartile/ceiling is a better indicator of success than a class's average, median, or total ranking.

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I'm old enough to have followed recruiting this far back.

Vick's main other offer was Syracuse, which was like maybe Mich St or Tennessee today. I would think as a recruit, he was thought if similarly to Hooker. He wasn't anywhere near Currys level. The comparison is that Tommy Reamon told schools that if they were recruiting Curry, then don't come after Vick as just a Curry replacement. This was in large part directed at UVA and UNC who were of course the finLists for Curry. Vick was almost unknown by today's standards. But if course, he was our guy. I'm sure we were giddy the day we got him.

Suggs wasn't highly regarded either. I think it came down to VT and Wake with UVA showing some interest. A comparison to Darren Evans recruitment seems apt.

So As recruits:
Vick = Hooker
Suggs = Evans

Good research. Really interesting

Vick wasn't anywhere close to being recognized as the #2 QB in the country as a recruit. Here's a google spreadsheet I found on Reddit that has Tom Lemming's recruiting rankings from 1996-2004. According to him, Vick was the #11 dual threat in 1998. Lee Suggs wasn't a top 25 tailback, wingback or fullback.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I'm biased as a Warwick alum and VT football fan but I always thought Vick was better than Curry. If you look at those Hampton teams they were loaded and during that 4yr run they were beating teams 50-7 and 42-14. They would have 1 close league game each year. Ferguson (fresh/soph) and Warwick (jun/sen). Mike was willing those teams to competitive seasons. Except for his senior year were Warwick was pretty good but those other years he was a 1 man show. Hampton had multiple D1 players on those teams. Warwick have 2. Mike and a DL that went to Norfolk St......

Syracuse went to the fiesta and orange in back to back years, I feel like your assessment of a modern day Tennessee or Michigan State isn't accurate. They were a lot better than that, although the did dumb stuff like lose to NC State twice.

Uh... Michigan State is one of only 11 teams to play in the college football playoff and made the Rose Bowl two years before that. Tennessee is a little different because they haven't done much lately but they have almost always recruited well and remain a borderline blue blood.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Oh hell, I forgot about Michigan St making the playoffs, thanks for the correction.

The dissolution of the Big East is a strange thing to figure out. Obviously being in a P5 conference is preferable to the fate of UConn but it seems like Pitt and Syracuse have become 3rd tier programs while Miami and West Virginia have taken a big hit as well. It's hard to imagine any of those programs ever reaching a similar level to where they were 15-20 years ago. Conference realignment only made the SEC and Big 10 stronger but it wasn't just at the expense of the non-P5 teams. Maybe it's mostly about TV and the fact that the Big 10 and SEC got earlier, more lucrative network deals played a major role in the increasing gap between P5 conferences.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Idk, all the teams the Big 10 got were kinda trash. Maryland's good in basketball that's it

Not to speak for the other poster, but I think the point is the damage it did to other conferences, not the improvements made to the B10 and SEC.

Edit: To elaborate, even though the teams the Big 10 got weren't good (and SEC - though I guess Texas A&M was okay), they created enough instability that the ACC and Big 12 couldn't get in on the TV contract feeding frenzy at the time.

Wait, what?

I picked MSU specifically to a bout for SUs accomplishments. UT, on the other hand, has a similar recruiting weight with basically no modern accomplishments. It's weird

Thanks. I am actually old enough to have had some contacts within the program at that time. The recruiting rankings were not quite mainstream until a few years later. You are correct that we were giddy to get Vick. We viewed him (correctly) as a no doubt, five star talent. There was a similar, albeit slightly less enthusiastic, feeling about Suggs. There is an article somewhere saying he was a better player than Curry. That person turned out to be right too. But your Hooker/Evans comps as far as collective opinions at the time vs. our internal evaluations are fair.

"That's it guys. Let's get out of here. That cold drink's waitin' on us, let's go." - Mike Young after win no. 300.

I remember personally being giddy to get Suggs when I read it in the Roanoke times

Yep. As someone from SWVA, when you put up those kind of numbers at Fleming, gimme gimme gimme.

"That's it guys. Let's get out of here. That cold drink's waitin' on us, let's go." - Mike Young after win no. 300.

Good info. Only thing I would suggest is that Suggs was not that highly regarded coming out of William Fleming. He was a top 25 VA player, but not a top 5 and many considered him just a speedy HS RB who wouldn't be able to cut it in the Big East.

What the critics didn't know was that he was a smart kid, incredibly hard-worker who changed his body in college as well as he just had a knack for making plays and finding that extra yard/end zone.

I would suggest Suggs was a solid 3 star recruit that exceeded expectations from the recruiting "experts" at the time.

PS - I am nit-picking and not trying to take away from your overall post.

What the critics didn't know was that he was a smart kid, incredibly hard-worker who changed his body in college as well as he just had a knack for making plays and finding that extra yard/end zone.

This is what I'm hopeful about in some of the recruits that VT has brought in for 2020 and so far in 2021 that aren't highly as touted, and I feel like it was the same strategy that Beamer had in the 90's / early 2000s. My hope is these guys that they are bringing in are hard workers and can turn into contributors, with a certain percentage turning into major contributors and game changers.

VT was never built on 4 and 5 star talent. It was built in guys who came in with a chip on their shoulder and worked hard for success. In addition to that, the heralded game changers were sprinkled around in key positions that kept VT winning at a 9 and 10 game clip.

This is why I continue to be hopeful. Find guys that will work hard and fit the program, make them the foundation and build on that and add those occasional big time guys who are also hard working guys with chips on their shoulder.

That is an incredibly nice piece of work. I'm embarrassed, LOL.

"That's it guys. Let's get out of here. That cold drink's waitin' on us, let's go." - Mike Young after win no. 300.

I think we need a thread to discuss whether a post should be on the discourse or recruiting thread.

Looks like Tank is going to Norfolk State per his twitter.

Not recruiting per se, but NCST hired Ruffin McNeill as a special assistant to the HC

great hire for them tbh, always felt he got done dirty

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Coach Ruff looking right svelte nowadays.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Shit.

Well, he is a class act who got absolutely hosed by ECU (eff them) for having one losing season and how's that's working out for the Eastern Carolina University? Eff them.

Didn't know he had left Oklahoma, but apparently he did after last season to be with his ailing father in North Carolina. Couldn't find any new information about it, so hopefully this position gives him enough time to be with his family when need be.

He is a very good coach. They will be lucky to have him.

Really like this guy a lot. I wish him nothing but the best!

Is coronavirus over yet?

This is going to make recruiting out of NC harder. McNeil will probably be involved with NCHSAA coaches and will actually be helpful in gaining relationships.

For those who don't pay attention, NC is starting to get a lot of attention with respect to recruiting and it will be harder for VT to mine this area. They will need to put in some serious work. The biggest thorns in their side right now:

Clemson - Like it or not, they're going to come in and basically take who they want.

UNC led by the juggernaut Mack Brown. Seals the deal once recruits see that NC replica trophy at the entrance to the K&W in Chapel Hill. Probably going to pull Darrel Moody and Sparky Woods off of the golf course more as a UNC counter to Ruffin. Feel bad for Mack, he's going to be playing less rounds this year with his buddies. His schmoozing the boosters from his golf cart game remains undefeated though.

Louisville - Satterfield has Ledford, Brewer and Derek Nicholson on staff. All have strong NC ties. Ledford is not known as a great recruiter though. I was hopeful Nicholson would've gotten a look for VT to stabilize the Triad recruiting that was lost when Wiles was let go.

South Carolina - Muschamp brought on Joe Cox and Des Kitchings to the staff, I expect them to have a heavy focus on NC in the near future, particularly Charlotte and the Triangle.

NC State - Ruffin on staff provides relationships and helps foster their "family" pitch. Garrison, Beck, McDonald, Wiles, Gibson are all proven. Goebbel, Aughtry-Lindsey, and DeForest are newish and I think will help in recruiting as well (particularly Aughtry-Lindsey who came from NCCU and I think is a solid up an comer)

Tennessee - Will always be a factor from Charlotte to Western NC. Parts or Western NC are basically Tennessee annex.

Yep. Going to be really tough for us to pull NC recruits that are desired by the local schools. Really a shame too cause we had an opportunity to really create a pipeline in the 336. Mook's dismissal and not extending an offer to Wyman really killed our momentum there

Keeping Hooker and having him as a starter has helped though. Hendon's father is a good friend to have if you want to recruit in the Triad.

Wyman was the biggest mistake. Dude loved VT early on and probably would've committed pretty early if we had offered. Could've also gotten us in the Page sweepstakes

Is this the Wyman you are talking about?

Also, is this the Page you are talking about?

Because if so, these are just more examples of why some of the people on here are losing their minds over our recruiting efforts. We didn't even offer a 6'2" 4* receiver (btw 247 has conflicting info on his height, it also says 6'4")? One that would have helped us with a Top 100 recruit at a position of need this year? I know that just helping with this recruitment still would've been an uphill battle, but that help is icing on the cake of a highly rated receiver with a good offer list.

Of course, I don't have any insight into why or why we don't do things, so who am I to criticize......just seems there are too many stories like this one holding us back.

*Edit: changed the embed of Wyman to his high school recruiting profile rather than his current USCe player profile.

Its truly one of the infuriating things of the Fuente Era.

I don't even remember Wyman coming up much if at all in Recruiting convo last year...

His film generally looks pretty good---occasionally uses his body too much to catch the ball, but otherwise, hard to see how he couldn't help VT. On film, he reminds me quite a bit of Hazelton.

Would have been our highest-rated Recruit of '20, continued a potential pipeline in G'boro, and possibly gotten us in good position with a coveted DT in '21....makes all the sense in the world yet didn't happen. Hard to understand this one at all.

Yeah definitely a head scratcher on paper. Who knows what sort of eval the coaches had on his film/skills/demeanor but it's definitely a confusing one. And it's difficult to think we just forgot about him. I suspect we'll never know the reason

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yes and yes. I guess I understand somewhat why wyman wasn't offered because we landed Hyatt early and felt that we had a really good shit at Lambert while Wiggins was around, but still. I don't get the impression that Fuente understands the importance of relationships at the prep level

That sucks because wasn't that superior recruiting pitch the whole reason he got hired over Bud

no, pretty sure whit wanted an offensive coordinator/minded coach to take over. fuente wasn't tearing it up recruiting at previous stops

Yeah but in the press conference he specifically talked about Fuente's recruiting plan was being one of the main reasons he was hired. I'll try and find the link

I'm specifically quoting Whit, the whole offense vs defense thing is speculation.

lmao this whole thing is speculation, and you're not quoting whit until you have specific evidence to support it

personally i don't plan on searching for 5 year old press conferences, but fuente was known as an offensive mind, not a recruiting guru

My original comment was referring to the fact that recruiting was concern for all of the candidates but Fuente was the one who best sold his strategy to Whit. There weren't any knockout recruiters who were being considered for the job

As Charlotte and the Triangle continue to grow and expand further outward the talent will only increase as well. I think North Carolina is on the watch list of states to enter "elite" recruiting category, long held by California, Texas, and Florida, but we've seen Georgia emerge as a legitimate elite recruiting bed. There's no guarantee any other state joins that tier in the future, but NC would definitely be on my shortlist.

Don't know if someone already posted about this but we made the top 5 for 4* CB Markevious Brown back on the 4th. Not sure when his decision will come but he'd be a nice addition

Hadn't heard that. This is a pleasant surprise as I hadn't really had him on the radar!

Hate that Canes helmet love that Tech Jersey.

Reading into it looks like it's between us Miami and Auburn. Sure hope he doesn't care about academics ๐Ÿ˜ฌ /s

I sometimes wonder if there are kids on the coaches radar that we may not know about.

If I recall, don't the kids have to report the offer? So couldn't there be offers out there to others that we don't know about that could actually happen? I'm not saying this is really happening, but never know.

I think we only have enough room for one more DB

The Army's on Ecstasy
So they say
I read all about it
In USA today
They stepped up urine testing
To make it go away
Because it's hard to kill the enemy
On ol' MDMA

Here's some discourse: Let's say Carolina has a rough start to their season. They play at UCF and neutral Auburn their first two games. Let's say they drop those two, then their game at UVA.

Then let's say our experience pays off and we beat Penn State. Then we go to Chapel Hill and beat the Tar Heels soundly.

With us at 6-0 and UNC at a disappointing 2-4. Do the Heels become decommit U and do we stand a chance of flipping at least 2 or 3 of their 4 stars?

See: Miami completely underachieving every year with 4/5 star talent, still getting 4/5 star talent, cause you know the U is bak

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Not really. The guys they've got are all the typical UNC recruit that they've got in the past who are primarily UNC basketball fan boys. Those fan boys just happen to be 4* this year instead of 3*. They don't have a lot of out of state guys, but those would be the ones more likely to flip in this scenario.

Out of state for...North Carolina....so....you're tellin me there's a chance....

via GIPHY

LOL?!?!?! I'm so confused....and ready to get hurt again.

If he flips before this is all over, it's not to Tech, so relax. His dad burned that bridge long ago over Zohn, and Zohn hasn't exactly been glowing about his time coaching at Tech.

There are flips available, what with COVID, and Virginia doing well with it. I'd like to think we have some irons in the fire. I don't have reliable #sauces like others here, but there's been rumors are we are working on some flips.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I would assume that Zohn's Game Academy is a less than stellar platform for VT football. I'm sure a fired ex-coach wouldn't direct recruits away from VT on purpose, though. /S

STICK IT IN!
STICK IT IN!
STICK IT IN!

Just out of curiosity, what would the benefit for Zohn to bad mouth VT and steer recruits away from VT if he's trying to get another coaching gig? It's a pretty small community, no? Seems like other coaches wouldn't take too kindly to bridge burning.

The fact that Zohn works where is does now may tell you how that's gone for him.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

In his defense, maybe, he wasn't done any favors by either the Beamer staff or the Fuente staff. He was putting together 1,000 yd receivers when he came to VT. He had one year with the WRs at VT.

He got switched to running backs, and kept on staff by Fuente as a conduit to the 757. That was openly discussed. Then, he couldn't coach running backs. Had Fuente cut him instead of keeping him on staff, I don't think we'd be having this conversation. Then, he's leaving based solely on coaching staff change, instead of the ill will he developed.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I would ask if he has invited any of the VT staff to participate in his GAME Academy events. I believe I have seen UNC and Penn State featured in those events prominently. Maybe he invited VT and the staff refused but I would suspect our invite was lost in the mail.

STICK IT IN!
STICK IT IN!
STICK IT IN!

Fair point, and appreciate that bit of info. I would hope that the goal would be to get the kids who attend this academy get as much exposure as they can. To me, that only helps Zohn too. If he's not doing that, I think that's a mistake.

I've had relationships That didn't end well with employers and have had to deal with them in the industry I work in. It's just not smart to burn a bridge or hold a grudge. You never know when your paths cross again.

re: gjpvt09

If he flips before this is all over, it's not to Tech, so relax.

I would like to focus on the part that I underlined in bold. If you cannot tell that my post was tongue in cheek / a joke / not-laugh-out-loud-funny-but-still-being-comical........I don't know what to tell you.

For those who cannot see sarcasm when it's blatantly obvious...I was joking. Thought the Jim Carey gif would have taken care of that for me...

oh i laughed, and then responded, leg back to you sir.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I see, just trying to be optimistic. The NC to VT pipeline ain't dead yet. We've got Hooker Turner E Bow and Dax ready time ball out.

Grimes' Dad said he is reclassifying to class of 2020 since they believe fall sports will be canceled on the high school level and they don't want to waste a year sitting around. Thinks he will enroll Aug 1st. Just need to knock out a Government class in the next couple weeks

UNC can help with that "Government Class"

"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

UNC can help with that "Government Class"

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

Well, I really wanted him to be a Hokie, but man did he time his school pick well. Not that he or anyone else can't actually knock this class out, but if there's a university that will pave the way academically for you...good for him. If he's all he's cracked up to be as a football player, he would've had more than enough money to get back to school after NFL football if by some chance he didn't finish his degree in 3 years. Looks like he won't need worry either way.

*Edit: UNC right now...

So we picked up DJ Harvey, now we pick up a big, 6'4" WR from Tennessee who was initially a .97 on 247. Etute commits and gets about a .013 bump on his composite. We pick up 2 CBs for Kylen Austin another receiver today too. And there is still Poole and Williams out there as potential pickups.

This could end up being a great July for the Hokies!

I wanted to update my post from a few weeks back tracking P5 offers for the last two classes. The addition of Harvey and Curry since then was pretty big for these numbers. A rough rule is that at this time, any commit with five or more P5 offers (not including Tech) is meeting, or exceeding, class expectations. Anyway, here's a snapshot of where Tech stands, and the other teams most often associated with Tech commits:

2021 class โ€“ 13 commits โ€“68 combined P5 offers not including VT โ€“ 5.23 P5 offers/recruit (bumped up from 3.72/per before with the Harvey and Curry commits).

P5 offers โ€“ UVA (5), BC (4), Pitt (4), Duke (4), Louisville (4), West Virginia (3), Syracuse (3), Rutgers (3), USCe (3),Maryland (2), Wake (2), Kansas (2), Miss State (2), Auburn (2), Nebraska (2), NC State, Minnesota, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, UCLA, Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Ole Miss, Tennessee, Texas A&M, Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, LSU, Notre Dame, Oregon, Texas, USCw, Utah, Washington State, Georgia Tech, Indiana,

2020 class โ€“ 14 commits โ€“67 combined P5 offers not including VT โ€“ 4.78 P5 offers/recruit

P5 offers โ€“ BC (3), Kansas (3), Mizzou (3), LSU (3), Arizona (3), Indiana (3), Vanderbilt (3), Syracuse (3), Arkansas (3), Purdue (2), Rutgers (2), Georgia Tech (2), Colorado State (2), Arizona State (2), Maryland (2), Miss State (2), Colorado (2), Kansas State (2), Texas Tech (2), Utah State (2), Oklahoma (2), Oregon (2), Wisconsin, Illinois, Miami, Michigan State, Nebraska, TCU, USCw, Florida, USCe, UVA, Iowa State, Cal, Utah, Oklahoma State

Any chance you have the median # of P5 offers for each class?

Twitter me

I'm more interested in the mode.

I prefer a la mode.

Agree that would also provide insight.

Twitter me

Inaugural 247 ratings for the class of 2022 includes 11 Virginians.

Breakdown:
Five-Stars: 2 (Both in National Top 25)
Four-Stars: 9

Offensive: 7
RB: 3
WR: 2
OL: 2

Defensive: 4
DB: 2
DL: 1
LB: 1

Highest Rated:
OT: Gunner Givens (Lord Botertourt) 6-6 275 0.9910 VT Offer. 25 P5 Offers

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Would think we could potentially make out well. Pair of elite OL that are both local (Botetourt, Lynchburg). MLB could continue Manassas-Unity HS Pipeline. My favorite guys in state for '22 are Daylen Everette, Tayon Holloway and Xayvion Bradshaw. I'm hopeful that we'll be in pursuit of those three guys.

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

So when do we start to hear that VT is in great shape with these kids and 2022 will be the year they land an elite class? October?

Tech will never land an elite class (top 10)

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I think we have a really good chance with Gunner๐Ÿ˜ƒ Zach Rice on the other hand ๐Ÿ˜”

The Army's on Ecstasy
So they say
I read all about it
In USA today
They stepped up urine testing
To make it go away
Because it's hard to kill the enemy
On ol' MDMA

Damn, I think VT fans would shit a collective Brick if we landed an OL that highly rated. Well, any position that highly rated I spose

Weirdly enough, OL is not a position we need a lot of help in (imagine saying that 5 years ago). I would love highly rated players at other positions more at this point, but obviously would never say NO to a 5-star at any position that fits for us.

So VT can't, but UNC can?

What are the mental gymnastics on that?

I'm not going to turn this into another discussion of UNC, but I think you're letting VT off waaaay too easy.

I think you're waaaaay undervaluing UNC.

As for Jordan Brand...

Michigan
UNC
Oklahoma
Florida

Brands, like cultures, are created, built-upon, and maintained intentionally and with fore-thought. They don't just persist by accident or magic. With the right leadership and creativity VT could achieve anything these schools have achieved and level any playing field.

Why doesn't yak_butter just start the next Amazon or Google since all it takes is a little leadership and creativity?

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Ok... But I think Amazon and Google have both created new paradigms and were definitely uniquely positioned to seize their opportunities (Luck = Preparation + Opportunity). I think building a successful VT brand and expanding the culture of giving/contributing isn't so singular an achievement. I'm not trying to be dismissive of the difficulty but it's not an impossible or unprecedented task. I'm just not seeing the preparation/intention... or at least it doesn't seem like it's being implemented successfully. We're talking a decade plus of, at best, no meaningful improvement (in branding or football, and donations seem to have plateaued).

We should jump on this partnership with Amazon for our new grad school and give Jeff Bezos and honorary Doctorate in Entrepreneurship (or something like that)....then have him donate $1B. Then team up with Amazon for a new apparel company for new badass jerseys (maybe they can just buy out and re-brand/re-make Under Armour).

It's perfect. I love it.

And once he owns the Washington < insert sports team name here > he can have them do pre-season camps in Blacksburg during recruiting season. VT swag will begin appearing in everyone's "Frequently bought together" bar. Dogs and cats, living together.

Edit: I get you were probably mocking me (in a nice way) but those kind of ideas aren't as ridiculous as they sound at first... that kind of thinking, in my meager experience, is what leads to creative solutions to seemingly intractable problems.

Oh, sorry if it came off that way, I was actually not mocking at all. The $1B and extent of this idea was kind of tongue-in-cheek, but I was serious about trying to come up with creative new ways to push forward. The Bezos idea actually could work, just not to a $1B and buying Under Armour extent. :)

They have achieved so much more than VT though that kind of comparison is unfortunately going to lead to disappointment. And there is enough history at these schools that I'm not sure any level of creativity could get us there.

Yep. Woe is us. We just don't have the "money" and "resources" and our 5 year old indoor practice facility is sub par to Baylors. Yep- little ole VT will never sign a top 10 class- money of course.

Also name brand recognition, location, history and yes money. Keep ignoring it and thinking it will just take another coach.
Baylor's best class has been 22nd but sure.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Well the facts are A they haven't signed a top 10 class yet B they have in history signed two classes better than Tech has ever signed. So UNC has name brand recognition Tech will never have, they have a location that will always be better than Tech's (in growing part of the country in a decent sized and growing metro area and closer to places like the 757), and spends money to further their brand. Tech went to a NC and couldn't sign a top 15 class what makes you think anything is going to change to get a top 10 class?

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Join us in the Key Players Club

What football brand recognition does UNC have exactly? Empty stands? No significant wins the past 30 years? what? Michael Jordan? The basketball player?

It's university name brand. Jesus man this isn't hard. When you type UNC into your search bar the school comes up when you ask people what UNC is they say the school. Type VT and some people think Vermont. Hell we have recruits who don't even know the schools name. Also for your whole "football history" UNC has a more recent QB taken in the NFL draft. (Him being an NFL bust doesn't matter in recruiting), they have more DL and OL taken more WR's taken. But keep ignoring facts.

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So by this logic, we have no chance to out-recruit UNC? I mean how can we overcome Mitch Trubisky? You can't be serious.

Did I say that? No Jesus old man stop yelling at clouds. You made some remark about UNC Football being irrelevant. I listed all the positions UNC has sent draft picks to the NFL in the last 10 years over Tech. We have shown you UNC brand (because it's the total brand not just football record that matters) and you continue to change the point or just say Baylor and money.

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Where did I say UNC football is irrelevant?

What football brand recognition does UNC have exactly? Empty stands? No significant wins the past 30 years?

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So answer the question.. please. And "basketball" is not it. What FOOTBALL brand does UNC have. And nope, nowhere in there is "they are irrelevant". I am speaking to the topic of we can't ever hope to recruit against them because of brand. Thanks

We can very much recruit against them. Their ceiling is a lot higher than Tech's as evidenced by the top 20 classes they have compared to Tech's top 20 classes. They have more of them. They have a higher ceiling, name brand is a single part of why they can.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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When you sell a house, do you also talk about the neighborhood the house is in? Usually the location of a house is nearly as important as the house itself. Sometimes a crappy house in an amazing location goes for a lot more money than the amazing house in the crappy location.

This is just an instructive example, not a claim that UNC/VT is amazing/crappy relative to one another, but just to state that you cannot divorce the football brand from the rest of the university/city it is located in.

Get Angry, Bud!

this is one of the better analogies for "branding" and "feel" that i've ever seen. kudos

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Counterpoint: Tuscaloosa is a remote, unattractive dump in one of (if not THE) dumbest, poorest, most racist, redneckiest, backward ass states in the Union. And you could reasonably apply some version of that description to the "neighborhood" of almost every SEC school. Yet their brands still kick ass wrt football.

Because they have nothing to look forward to other than Bama football since they are in one of the dumbest, poorest, most racist, redneckiest, backward ass states in the Union.

Roll Tide. War Eagle.

Sure... but I was using hyperbole to argue that the "neighborhood" analogy, wrt football recruiting, isn't necessarily relevant. Or a least it's not something that cannot be overcome.

What I'm talking about is the fact that there are people who support SEC teams who donate more to the football programs than they spend on housing because SEC football is all they have to look forward to. And that's not hyperbole.

Also, there's a lot of money in those states that most people don't realize. And they aren't afraid to spend their money. Who do you think the bagmen get their money from?

Sidebar: what kind of money that people don't realize?

because the figurative "neighborhood" of the SEC is different than the literal "neighborhood" of the dumb/poor/racist/redneck/backwards countries

different factors at play. can't evaluate location in a vacuum just like you can't entirely evaluate "football brand" in a vacuum when it comes to how a recruit feels about attending a given school

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yeah, I believe "UNC football is irrelevant" is my lane.

It's not just about football. When most people think about VT sports, they think about football that had a good run in the 2000's. When most people think about UNC sports, they think about basketball, National Championships, and all of the players, including Jordan.

When you are a kid getting recruited to play football at VT, you go to Blacksburg, see the new coats of paint that are being put on some facilities, and get to put on unis that look like the summer interns designed them.

When you are a kid getting recruited to play football at UNC, you go to Chapel Hill, see the banners hanging from the rafters, see the new locker room, and get to put on Jordan Brand Jumpman 23 unis, which only 4 total schools can claim.

Chapel Hill is in an urban setting, Blacksburg isn't. These things make a big difference to a lot of kids.

Oh. and Mack roles up in his golf cart and shows you the copy of the crystal football from when he was at Texas and tells you "we can do it again if you come here." Then he rides away to catch the early-bird.

Like it or not, UNC is a national brand. Virginia Tech is a regional brand. Because UNC is a national brand, they get more opportunities to be seen - whether it be apparel or TV appearances (particularly men's basketball). To deny that brand recognition helps their football recruiting efforts is puzzling.

I will never deny their basketball brand- that's top 2-3. I can list 30 football brands off the top of my head that are better than UNC's though. Including Virginia Tech for most of the past 25 years.

I just think you're discounting how much the basketball brand influences their football recruiting, especially in state.

Basketball has way more influence on these kids than you are giving credit for. It's a sport that a lot of football players play growing up. Fuente has even talked about how players play pick-up games and he isn't excited about it because of the possibility of injuries, but he acknowledges that he can't stop the players from playing pick-up games. AB has talked about tech players playing pick-up games and which players are the best on the team. So yeah, show these kids all of UNC's banners for basketball and it will influence them. Plus they get to attend games when they go to UNC.

1-0 every week

They aren't completely separate entities when it comes to recruiting. You can use one to sell the other.

Whats the O/U on # of these 11 kids VT signs? 2.5? I'd take the under.

We have a new outdoor recruiting coordinator.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I'm 800% committed to declaring Ridge Brewington the best name of a recruiting target for the 2022 class (still accepting offers tho).

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Sergio is so awesome. Wish we had 15 more of him.

I don't know if Dwight Vick made the push or what, but more and more former players are getting involved, we just hired 2 of them. There was a lot of back and forth over Fuente closing off the program, and I believe he has, partially at least, addressed that criticism. Justin Hamilton and Darryl Tapp being on staff has been a lightning rod for former players.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

pierson prioleau and jack tyler currently on the staff in off-field roles as well

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I saw a tweet somewhere from Brad Clontz doing some recruiting. Seems like things are improving.

UVA recruiting news is giving them reasons to be optimistic again. They need to be humbled again. We need Football.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

Yep, just saw their '21 recruiting class is now ranked 24th. Also got a picture of my SIL proudly displaying her "UVA Would Have Won The 2020 NCAA Basketball Tournament" T shirt. Luckily, she now lives in California so I don't need to see it for real, but man...we gotta trim their sails, and quick.

Reel men fish on Wednesdays

August 2020 Recruiting News Thread
3 hours (56, 1 new)

August 2020 Recruiting Discourse Thread
2 hours (88, 5 new)

August 2020 UNC-Only Recruiting Discourse Thread
9 min (160, 160 new)

I'll admit it, I checked the tracker to see if someone had really already created these threads for August

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Tyas Martin to Colorado

That's a big oof. It's not like we got big dogged at all or anything. The only way I feel okay about this is if Tyleik Williams and/or Kelvin Gilliam become Hokies

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

But.....but

Never mind, can't think of an excuse!

Perhaps. I don't know if the staff is still pursuing him, but remember, decommitments are expected in high numbers this year, especially with recruits having limited access to coaches and campuses.

Doubt Tyas re-commits to VT, but just wanted to point that out.

Wasn't Tyas one of the players who never made it to campus?

Twitter me

Let's just say it was a mutual parting of ways

Heard he was very out of shape and the coaching staff didn't take to keen to that

Go for it

Goode thinking

How are we feeling about our chances with Donovan Mcmillon's commitment tomorrow?

Vroom Vroom

Not good

The Army's on Ecstasy
So they say
I read all about it
In USA today
They stepped up urine testing
To make it go away
Because it's hard to kill the enemy
On ol' MDMA

He gone :(

He was never here. We been behind florida the whole time

The Army's on Ecstasy
So they say
I read all about it
In USA today
They stepped up urine testing
To make it go away
Because it's hard to kill the enemy
On ol' MDMA

I was looking for info about his commitment in the July recruiting thread but saw all his crystal balls going to Florida and thought it might be in discourse instead. I'm becoming an expert at TKPing!

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

Looks like Landyn Watson has found a new home cause TCU just got a crystal ball. Also Abingdon RB/LB Martin Lucas committed to Arizona State and became a 3* (82 overall from 247).

WTF is Arizona St doing in Abingdon?

The long arm of Herm

I wonder if ASU fans are complaining about him recruiting out of state to find players?

Well if we were having as much success as them with their out of state blue-chip pulls I doubt we would.

2021 class so far:
Tommi Hill DT - .9011 - Florida
Junior Alexander LB - .8941 - Washington

2020 class:
Daniyel Ngata APB - .9468 - Cali
Jordan Banks OLB - .9095 - Cali
DeaMonte Trayanum RB - .9017 - Ohio

2019 class:
Jayden Daniels Dual Threat QB - .9832 - Cali
Stephon Wright SDE - .9105 - Cali
Joey Yellen Pro-Style QB - .9023 - Cali
Kejuan Markham S - .8918 - Cali

I'm pretty positive about very recent trends in our recruiting right now. DJ Harvey was a huge pull and we are in line for some potential big pickups as well this cycle.

However, I don't see a point in making these kinds of comments. ASU is similar to VT in that they aren't a guaranteed name brand on the trail that gets recruits, but they have (under Herm) stepped up and won some big battles out of state. I didn't even include their out of state high 3*'s.

I don't think there's a staff in the country that can stack up to the NFL experience on that team. You won't find that staff getting tangled up in mindless controversies like you've been seeing in Stillwater and Clemson, either.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

ASU has a lot of distinct advantages VT doesn't. Population size about twice Roanoke, or about the size of Richmond. Better weather for the most part. Part of a metro area 3 times the Richmond area. A major airport hub. Pro sports teams (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, WNBA).

I was trying to point out that even with all those advantages, it's not easy to build top 10 recruiting classes, and you have to expand your footprint to find players. Folks constantly freaking out about our recruiting need some perspective.

I totally agree that VT is a regional, not national, football school. Those of us who went to Tech like/love the feel of Blacksburg. But it's not for everyone.

They're also full of very qualified individuals

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

McMillon committed to UF.

A situation where it totally makes sense to pick Florida. SEC, better regular season slate, program history of putting DB's in the league (neutralizes our similar pitch), great position coach (Torrian Gray), etc. but it's also a situation where we gotta start winning more of these to take the next step as a program.

You're absolutely right. If you wanna compete with Clemson, you need to win these recruiting battles.

Feel super bad for Lino. Has a real friendship with DM and really put his heart into that recruitment

Does Lino now back off after being "friend zoned" or do you continue forward As is hoping to pull the flip? Based off the limited posts it seemed the kid actually enjoyed his madden time with Lino so I feel backing off might actually help rather than hurt.

I don't see him backing off

Still expecting a commit or two soon?

I think in general, you always stay connected - just say "hey, congrats, Florida is a great program. Wish you were a Hokie, but I know you'll do great things there." And then you just pop in every few of weeks to share a relevant joke or ask about the fam or something like that.

This way, (1) if something goes wrong (either in the immediate or distant future), it's not awkward to reopen the door, and (2) when the next player comes along - whether it's a family member, friend, former teammate, etc, the recruit will put a good word in, or make the connection.

Twitter me

Deff. Don't want to burn a bridge, especially if the relationship was legitimate. Congratulate him, wish him well and stay in touch in some fashion. Who knows what can happen between now and signing day?

In case you were wondering, yes, UNC really is targeting VT this year on the recruiting path.

And they aren't being subtle about it.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

the University of the North Carolina

Trying to get a jab in at Ohio State as well by using two 'thes' in their name I see.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.

Yeah, he's putting up a fence and everything!

Is it just me or does it kinda seem like Dre tweeted this drunk at 2am?

Looks like somebody needs to inform Dre it's the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Don't want dem V.A. boys confused and thinking it's UNC-Asheville or UNC School of the Arts.

What pisses me off the most is that they used Grindin' by Clipse and Pharrell in that video. Shots fucking fired.

Twitter me

Its aight. The Jordan Poole commit video will feature Petey Pablo and J Cole.

Just hoping it will also feature us ๐Ÿ˜ฌ

... gets under my skin, can't lie

The quality of that footage gives away everything you need to about Carolina football in recent broadcasting history. For every one cool play Carolina had in the 90's Tech has like 20 that are actually recent

Looks like he might reclassify. Wonder how many schools can handle additional players joining a year early with how the NCAA has restrictions on scholarships?

Stick it in...Stick it in...Stick it in

Unless the rules have changed, I think they can count for either year - the calendar year they enroll or the recruiting year. So it would have no effect.

Wait, what?

What are some of the best recruiting profiles on Twitter I should be following to stay current on VT?

Of course I talk to myself, sometimes I need expert advice.

@EvanGWatkins247
@VTScoop247
@MatejS247
@BeamerGarage
@VT_Recruiting (just retweets updates when people get offers)
all of the football staff

Twitter me

Thank you!

Of course I talk to myself, sometimes I need expert advice.

Interesting look at how they were rated in the past and how it doesn't always have to be 4 or 5 stars.

Stick it in...Stick it in...Stick it in

I think these are all good examples of "overachievers" with the exception two. Caleb Farley was a "high" 3* and the primary reason for that had nothing to do with his ceiling or potential, but that he was a QB who was not going to play QB at the next level. Those guys are usually 3*'s or low 4*'s because there is always a level of unknown with a position change. There are a lot of considerations that go into recruiting rankings, and position change is one those things that affects the "uncertainty" portion of grading.

The second is Bradburn, because the composite grades on specialists are always low. The number one kicker in the country is usually a low-mid 3*. There's actually a separate service that rates specialists on their own 5* scale, but tbh I do not check those ever.

Not that it matters, but I personally would have rated Farley in the lower 90's based on his HS film when I watching it. There's not a very defensible way to watch his HS highlights and say, "this guy should be a 99 rated corner."

Farley's HS film screams Elite athlete. I agree he was underrated due to "no position". He was as exciting of a player with the ball in his hands as I could imagine.

I made the comment on Farley's high school film that he had loose hips which would translate well to DB, probably one of my best predictions! Also give credit to him for working hard to get where he is now. We knew he was a great athlete, but he has worked hard and through adversity to get to where he is now and is looking to be a high draft pick next year!

1-0 every week

Tech losing on Mekhi Becton outta RVA still really burns me. He was supposed to be a heavy VT lean before Louisville came outta nowhere with that cash $.

Pour some Beer on it

Didn't have anything to do with money. We botched his OV

What did we do to botch his OV?

Stick it in...Stick it in...Stick it in

Must have filed a groove in his cleats.

Doesn't matter if it's cake or pie as long as it's chocolate.

Think he got paired with a current (then player) that didn't fit him well at all. Went to party etc.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Stuck him with a group of guys that were partiers. MB was very quiet and very much a homebody and was not excited about going out on his visit. When he voiced is concerns, his hosts gave him some ribbing that MB did not take lightly.

I don't know how the details work so do you think the additional staff + VT alums (aka they have knowledge of do's and don'ts due to being VT alums) helps us minimize mistakes such as Becton's visit and potentially close a few more? I ask as I don't know if I understand their role relative to our current performance (not a criticism, but genuine question)

So what's the word on when these "silent" commits are going to become unsilent

Not sure about star value, but I'm hearing rumbling that August will be nice.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

THIS!

Heck. Yeah.

This is good for player alumni relations and recruiting. Love it.

A lot of folks may give Fu grief, but honestly, it appears that he listens to people's criticism and actively works on it. For a while, there was a lot of complaints about past players and the current coaches, so seems he is trying to fix that issue.

So FSU is having some issues.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

putting the lame in lamborghini?

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I believe he would have really thrived here. It's a real shame.

They only have 1 returning scholarship recruited RB on roster. Grant.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

And Jashaun Corbin

Isn't he a transfer (because he didn't go to Tech he got a waiver)

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Ah i didn't see you said recruited.

Well since I don't follow FSU that closely I didn't know Anthony Grant is gone from the program also. Jesus.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Because of screen width, your post came through as:

Well since I don't follow FSU that closely I didn't know Anthony Grant is gone from the program

also. Jesus.

and I thought, "wow, that's pretty bad when even Jesus abandons you."

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

ODU is about to have a late 90's / early 2000's VT style RB rotation

You just hate to see it.

You really do. SMDH

Needs an Urban Meyer type coach to reel in the prima donna, and get results, see: Percy Harvin, Aaron Hernandez

After I asked on another thread, I learned we didn't even bother with Harvin due to his off field behavior.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Takes an Urban Meyer type coach to put winning over everything and completely ignore off field behavior that ends up with someone getting killed and the former player killing himself.

I know a lot of people "love" Urban Meyer, but I will always remember him as that type of coach.

Sooooo any chance Webb wants to come back with Farley exiting now? Kinda /S

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

How about DJ reclassified?!?

Stick it in...Stick it in...Stick it in

Harvey? ๐Ÿ‘€

We better hope our fans quit melting down over Farley going pro.

Go for it

Are people melting down? That's embarrassing as hell

I haven't seen too much, mostly well wishing and understanding. Even twitter seemed better than expected.

Thought this was interesting given some of the recruiting discourse here.

Can we please get a few of those 3 stars that develop like those guys?

Russell Wilson was barely a 3* too if I remember correctly.

.82 (rounded) on the composite.

The Orange and Maroon you see, that's fighting on to victory.