Washington Redskins moniker has been officially retired

This came about very quick over the last few weeks. Surprised to see that it is actually happening, if only because this is generally after the cutoff point where merchandise needs to be prepared and created to sell for the upcoming season. Very curious to see in which direction they go with this, because this really doesn't leave Nike much time at all to pivot.

If you're a Washington fan, this could be a year to stock up on official merchandise. Could be an odd generic hybrid season that becomes quote valuable and collectible in 10-15 years time.

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Comments

Horrible to see. Not a skins fan but giving in to cancel culture is the worst. I have lived in DC for 12 years and frequent too many sports bars and venues never met a single person who consider this as a slur or to be offensive. I even know a few native Americans who consider it a source of pride. Be interesting to see what direction they go in, probably heavily dependent on what their paid sponsors suggest...

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

This is why I have cancelled my viewership of the No Fun "Allowed" League.

โ€œBut do kind of enjoy reading this thread, it's really nice because Auburn can't swoop in and take our juicy ripe tomatoes.โ€ ~ lewiswb

I too think using a slur as a nickname is both fun and also a deal breaker.

I have had issues with the NFL for several years and the product of the brand itself have gotten boring and all about the money.

Professional sports is nothing more than an entertainment-industry complex.

โ€œBut do kind of enjoy reading this thread, it's really nice because Auburn can't swoop in and take our juicy ripe tomatoes.โ€ ~ lewiswb

Not sure what the "entertainment-industry complex" is, but they are in the entertainment industry so I guess you're technically right. It really is all about money in professional sports and I'd like to take this time to remind you to donate to the Hokie Club.

I appreciate your reminder to donate to Hokie Club but my answer is, "No," my money is best used elsewhere to support worthwhile ministries.

โ€œBut do kind of enjoy reading this thread, it's really nice because Auburn can't swoop in and take our juicy ripe tomatoes.โ€ ~ lewiswb

Some of the responses here are goddamn absurd lol. It's a slur. People get upset that they can't call their favorite team a slur. Wild times we live in. It's not like the team itself is gone.

Yes, I made a comment.

But it was clearly not popular, so I cancelled it.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Yes, this is the time to cancel people you disagree with by downvoting them instead of having intelligent or honest debate.

lol come on man, nobody is "canceling" you or anyone else on this forum. get a grip. not to mention that nothing about your comment (or Jander's) was "intelligent debate" instead of just being smugly dismissive because you (and Jander) don't think it's a big deal.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Look.

I was going to get nothing but downvotes and snide comments, not any kind of actual discussion.

Sometimes it's better to just admit that and skip it.

that's fair. but realize that when you lead with a snide and dismissive comment, you're inviting everyone else to return in kind regardless of whether or not you think they ought to.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

You assume I was tossing out downvotes...but when I respond with a gif, that's my vote.
And hard to have an honest debate when you post "statues that they don't visit...and things that don't affect them." You've removed that chance right there.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

that's a sneaky edit but im not sure your post sounds any less condescending because of it

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Nazi are ok, and blood diamonds should be handed out to everyone, right?
You've never visited either one (I assume) and neither affect you directly...

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I didn't say anything remotely like that.

But I removed it.

Because, you know, mob rules.

i think we prefer to call it "community moderation". take it less as a suppression of your points and more as an invitation to consider why other people might have an issue with it beyond simply "looking for a reason to be upset"

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Statues in places they never go to

The statue in my hometown that people are trying to have removed is the primary decorative piece in front of the County Courthouse.

Every POC who goes to the Anderson County Courthouse (A county of ~202k people) for any of the many reasons a citizen may have to go to the courthouse, walks by a statue that reads:

"The world shall yet decide. In truth's clear far-off light. That the soldiers who wore the gray. And died with lee were in the right."

We all know the folks in sports bars are the leading authority on what's a slur or offensive to someone's culture.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

And we all know that outraged folks on Twitter and message boards are the leading authority on what is offensive to someone's culture.

Yes but it was sponsorships driving change, not people on Twitter. Danny only listens to $$.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

How righteous of Nike, a company that employs sweatshop labor overseas, to stand up for this being offensive.

there's a spectrum here. one "right" doesn't justify another "wrong". and one "wrong" doesn't invalidate a different "right". Nike as a business has room for improvement just as much as Snyder as a franchise owner does. Doesn't mean one can't push the other.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

this might hold water if people weren't saying it before twitter launched in 2006

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

probably heavily dependent on what their paid sponsors suggest..

Sooooo you're saying it's not cancel culture, and that it's a business decision?

Twitter me

It's literally a word that was used as a racial slur. Why in the world would it matter whether someone in a sports bar's "considers" it as such?

I grew up a Skins fan, am a Skins fan, have been uncomfortable with the name for a while, am glad they're changing it, and will be a fan of whatever the team is called after. There. You've met one.

*Edited slightly to bring down the temp

This is the right thing to do.

Just because it isn't a racist term within your bubble, doesn't mean it's not racist to a large percentage of of a minority group that has been drug through the mud in this country.

Let's not conflate cancel culture with doing the right thing. This should have been done a long time ago.

Just because it isn't a racist term within your bubble, doesn't mean it's not racist to a large percentage of of a minority group that has been drug through the mud in this country.

I have had coworkers use the term "half-breed", b/c their bubble doesn't think it's racist, or they know it's racist, but have used it so often, it's been normalized. That's what happened here. Redskins became normalized.

Let's not conflate cancel culture with doing the right thing.

As an undergrad in the 2000s, removing native imagery swept through CFB. It was the right thing to do, and had been fought for decades by so many tribes. The biggest, strangest, most corrupt, abhorrent battle was North Dakota and the Fighting Sioux nickname. At the time, the school was a hockey power house. The lengths the school, alumni, and fans took to try to keep the old name was just downright awful.

As an aside, several schools still use it, and have permission to do so from said tribes. FSU Seminoles and Utah Utes are the two most known. Central Michigan has permission to use Chippewas. Surprisingly, Eastern Michigan was not given permission by the Huron tribe.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

This movement has been going on for years. Hardly cancel culture at all.

Just because it's been going on for years doesn't make it not "cancel culture".

You know what, if removing racist slurs is "cancel culture" then I'm 100% for it.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

it's not even cancel culture. you could maybe say that donald sterling got hit with "cancel culture" when the NBA forced him to sell the Clippers, but even then it was probably also a better business move by the NBA not to have him around any more. But pressuring people to change a name is not the same as trying to make a person unemployable today for something they tweeted 15 years ago like we saw with Josh Hader etc.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Nobody is sure when the term Redskin arose. But when bounties were offered for killing a Native American, hunters could often collect on them by presenting the victim's scalp or skin. And, yes, it was called a red skin. "The reward for dead Indians has been increased to $200 for every red-skin sent to purgatory," announced a newspaper in Winona, Minn., in 1863.

https://apnews.com/8896c54a5ba8437092efd8a69610f672

The term is racist. The context alone above is proof of that. That in conjunction with the fact that 2/3rds of Native Americans find it offense is reason enough to get rid of the name.

(Not a Washington fan)
I was on the "Warriors" bandwagon for awhile there, but I doubt that is the name that ends up getting chosen. I think it may be a little too close in imagery to Native Americans and Washington has already stated they are moving completely away from that.
I have heard mention of Red Wolves. At first it seemed a little corny to me, but I have come around and think that would be a pretty cool name.

"The Big Ten is always using excuses to cancel games with us. First Wisconsin. Then Wisconsin. After that, Wisconsin. The subsequent cancellation with Wisconsin comes to mind too. Now Penn State. What's next? Wisconsin?" -HorseOnATreadmill

RedTails seems to be gaining a lot of traction. Given some of the mockups I've seen, that could be a good move

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I'd rather they not go with Red Tails. It's already got built in jokes if they suck, and there's still a racial component. Another shift in societal norms could put the team right back in this position in the future.

A big item about the name that I don't understand is why the word "Red" seems to be required. You can keep the existing color scheme and still have a wealth of naming options at your disposal

"The Big Ten is always using excuses to cancel games with us. First Wisconsin. Then Wisconsin. After that, Wisconsin. The subsequent cancellation with Wisconsin comes to mind too. Now Penn State. What's next? Wisconsin?" -HorseOnATreadmill

They can keep some of their historical/secondary logos.

Very good point. See I am glad I established that I wasn't a fan of the team at the beginning of this discussion lol

"The Big Ten is always using excuses to cancel games with us. First Wisconsin. Then Wisconsin. After that, Wisconsin. The subsequent cancellation with Wisconsin comes to mind too. Now Penn State. What's next? Wisconsin?" -HorseOnATreadmill

If it's the Red Tails, they could honor the legendary all-black fighter squadron during WWII where their exploits were respected by bombers. They were often requested by the crew of bombers because Red Tails were loathed by the Nazi war machine.

โ€œBut do kind of enjoy reading this thread, it's really nice because Auburn can't swoop in and take our juicy ripe tomatoes.โ€ ~ lewiswb

That's actually really cool and pretty badass.

Twitter me

The film with Lawrence Fishburne as a lead actor was fascinating to watch. They earned their reputation and place among the greats of WWII. I say this as a white man with admiration of their deeds.

There was a powerful scene in that film where the leading bomber refused to takeoff unless the Red Tails were their escort.

โ€œBut do kind of enjoy reading this thread, it's really nice because Auburn can't swoop in and take our juicy ripe tomatoes.โ€ ~ lewiswb

Yep, and that's specifically what I was talking about with Red Tails

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

That would be the best logo I'd ever seen since the Patriots updated their and of course the Panthers' logo...

โ€œBut do kind of enjoy reading this thread, it's really nice because Auburn can't swoop in and take our juicy ripe tomatoes.โ€ ~ lewiswb

And the plane even has a hidden spear in the fuselage to play homage to the team's history

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Nice! I hadn't notice, see, there's a way to honor both trends. In fact, at one point, the Redskins used the spear as their logo.

โ€œBut do kind of enjoy reading this thread, it's really nice because Auburn can't swoop in and take our juicy ripe tomatoes.โ€ ~ lewiswb

i never would have seen that if you hadnt pointed it out, thanks

That logo is slick.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

I...ugh, I fucking love that.

never met a single person who consider this as a slur or to be offensive. I even know a few native Americans who consider it a source of pride.

Ok buddy. Just because you know a few fictional native americans who consider this "a source of pride" doesn't mean squat.

In fact, OP / Mods, you might as well nuke this thread now itself since this isn't going to be a productive conversation at all.


Too many threads like this these days where its skirting the line dangerously with politics. I've found its best to avoid these threads due to that reason.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I would argue the original response was. I'm trying to nuke this thread altogether.

Thats my point as well this thread is just gonna stir up more issues than good.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Agree completely.

if that's your goal, it shouldn't be. the addition of Chris and me as mods wasn't intended to replace community moderation, but rather to help Joe/VTGM moderate where things actually require it. feel free to actually community moderate instead of intentionally trying to make things worse to force mods' hand

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

feel free to actually community moderate instead of intentionally trying to make things worse to force mods' hand

I wasn't trying to make things worse at all - you miss my point completely. Nothing good can come of this thread, unless all you want is website hits.

but rather to help Joe/VTGM moderate where things actually require it

This. This thread will badly require moderation. Probably not worth anyone's time to do this IMO, but feel free to put out the fires.

i dont care about website hits outside of the fact that they (partially) help financially underpin the availability of the community. it's an abstract concept and any revenue generated by this thread is likely relatively small compared to the rest of the site.

I did mischaracterize the tone of your post, so that's on me. that said, we think it's better to encourage everyone to be respectful and have thoughtful commentary and "put out the fires" if we need to, rather than just Nope the thread entirely because of the possibility of things going out of bounds. Some conversations are inherently out of bounds by nature, I don't think this is one of them

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

  1. Regardless of its contents, I don't understand how it helps to come into a thread and initially interact with a burn it all down mentality.
  2. TKP is not optimizing for clicks (never really has), and I'm surprised that's not obvious.

1. Because we've had similar posts that are controversial and have been locked / nuked in the past. This post (not OPs fault) will only add noise in that regard.
2. *shrug* - I'm not saying / accusing TKP or anything. And regarding obvious or not - I don't know anymore.

Just a crazy thought but maybe shut up and don't try to make the thread go all political.

lol ok internet tough guy.

that clearly wasn't the intent

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I like how they still have "Redskins" all over their twitter handle and press release to announce that they are done using the name.

notice the address at the top of the press release.

Actually the release is quite clear. They will retire the name and moniker AFTER completion of the review. The review is still ongoing.

And part of that review process is finding a new name that isn't already trademarked, and then rebranding everything.

Gives them a chance to do a farewell tour this year, and then have everything in place for a big rebrand in 2021.

I'm about it. I just don't see a downside. Teams have changed their names/mascots plenty of times in the past (bulletsโ€”>wizards, oilersโ€”>titans, Hornetsโ€”>Pelicans, etc) and they're still here today. I think this is a good op for Washington to actually associate themselves with the city of DC.

Twitter me

Would you really want to associate with DC? The stadium isn't is DC or Virginia. They should be the Maryland Crabbers or Blue Crabs. :)

Side-step the whole DC vs. VA vs. MD issue and use Blinky as the representative of fish from the Potomac!

I'm still pissed about changing the name of the Bullets. What connection does wizardry have to the city?

I kinda want the Skins to change their names to something equally as absurd as the Wizards. Maybe the Warlocks lol.

To be fair, Hornetsโ€”>Pelicans was kind of a dumb change.

I'm a fan from Louisiana... but pelicans... really.

I would just drop Red and the head logo and be the Skins with the old spear logo.

If that doesn't get far enough away from the name go a completely different route, maybe military themed.

"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

At the end of the day it's a business decision for them. They aren't going to do it because of twitter or "being the No Fun League". At some point they determined it was either going to hurt their bottom line if they didn't change or it would raise it if they did change.

Gobble Till You Wobble

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Hmmm...Radskins....

Could stick with the wizardry them and go with Washington Warlocks (sounds very XFLish)

Or we go the political route:
Washington Cesspool
Washington Quagmire
Washington Gridlock

Washington Quagmire

can't wait for the crowd chant to start
left side: "Giggity"
right side: "GIGGITY"
All: "GOO"

Sidebar -- I remember watching a Redskins game once where the camera panned the crowd, and there was a dude wearing a Peter Griffin mask. Said dude had the exact body shape of Peter, so it was kind of creepy.

That's not really how trademarks work... It might slow them down a bit, because I'm sure they're legal department has to look at it, but it's not like they're now stuck between paying that guy a lot of money or picking a different name.

I think they should piggyback on Richmond replacing the statue of Robert E. Lee with Oderus Urungus and go ahead and rename the team the ScumDogs.

You know what's funny. If Virginia didn't join the confederate States Robert E Lee would have been the General of the United States. He would have been know as hero instead of a racist villian

I've got this feeling
The tide is turning now baby
Funny feeling everything's gonna be alright now

They need to retire Dan Snyder if they really want to make a productive move.

Mystics, Caps, Nationals, have all won titles in the past 3 years, and they all have red, white, and blue as their color scheme.

The Wizards changed colors and made the playoffs. DC United hasn't won a title since 2004, and Washington NFL hasn't won at all, since the early 90's. I'm not specifically blaming the color scheme, but, it's like, science. Change the color scheme with the name.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I live in Arizona, one of my good friends is married to a Navajo. Her parents don't like it at all, she is mostly ambivalent because she doesn't care about sports. It doesn't personally offend me but I get where her parents are coming from, it's wise to change the name. They were brought up to feel that they were inferior into their own country-change the name.

Crazy that article was from 2013.

Cowboys vs...just won't be the same...

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Change it to Cowgirls so its boys vs girls?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Perfect name already exists.

"Number 16 in your program, but number one in our heart, Shaaaaaaane Falco!"

โ€œBut do kind of enjoy reading this thread, it's really nice because Auburn can't swoop in and take our juicy ripe tomatoes.โ€ ~ lewiswb

Well, we tried.