Justin Fuente needs to be fired

I know, the buyout is so high. I know, the buyout decreases on December 16th. I don't care.

We cannot afford for Justin Fuente to be our head football coach in 2021. Period. The losses have piled up. The incompetence has been on absolute full display the last few weeks. And really, let's look at the bad losses we've seen the last few years.

Syracuse
Boston College (twice)
Old Dominion
Wake Forest
Virginia
Kentucky
Liberty
Ass packing by Duke
Ass packing by Pittsburgh

Every streak we had going into the Fuente era is dead. The win streak over UVa is gone. The streak of consecutive winning seasons is gone. And, if not for the fact that literally everyone is bowl eligible this year, the bowl streak would be gone (though it still could be if we are still at 4 wins at the end of this thing).

Even worse, recruiting is cratering. Back to back years we have had recruiting classes in the bottom 10 of the Power 5. And the most concerning thing is that we haven't even felt the full impact of that, yet. Simply put, with Justin Fuente as head coach, we legitimately have worse days ahead of us than where we are now. And that's scary.

Looking around social media, apathy is setting in. I'm seeing it all over the place. "I'm numb to this team right now.". Numbness over a long period of time is a death sentence to a competitive program. We cannot allow this to continue much longer or else you're going to see Virginia Tech football revert back to the small town mid major quality that it had back in the 1970s.

We are better than this. Our funding should be getting better results than this. It doesn't have to be this bad. We should be better than this

It's time. Make the move.

Fire Justin Fuente.

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Comments

#MakeTheMove

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

#makethemove

Shouldn't that be Ass Packings plural by Pittsburgh?

Cartoons's one cousin that none of us wanted to meet

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

yea I mean unfortunately nothing's happening till the end of the season, but I feel like this is one of the games where you leave the coach on the tarmac. I barely watched any of this game, I really don't understand how we've regressed so much, adding salt to the wounds, Pitt had 16 players out, we had most of our starters. I don't know how we rebound from this. We need a PJ Fleck/Tom Allen type coach to fix things. Idk who that would be, but I don't even know how many current players/2021 recruits we salvage for next season at this point.

Who is the PJ Fleck/ Tom Allen ? I don't see anybody that screams hire me. And on top of that, the person has to be east coast. I think one of CJFs issue is not having viable connections in VA. The next coach has to have those connections on day 1, not need 3 years to make them.

PJ Fleck and Tom Allen are both 'high energy guys' who arrived at their respective programs (Minnesota and Indiana) and both made immediate progress. Neither will come to VT since their both midwest guys, but I think hokieforever12 was saying that we need to find someone like them (aka; people who can sell and excite fans and recruits alike).

I think one of CJFs issue is not having viable connections in VA. The next coach has to have those connections on day 1, not need 3 years to make them.

Hard agree here. Next HC needs ties to the Mid-Atlantic or the Carolinas.

Twitter me

but I think hokieforever12 was saying that we need to find someone like them (aka; people who can sell and excite fans and recruits alike).

yup exactly what I was getting at, you could throw in someone like a Sam Pittman or to a lesser extent Mario Cristobal too. But basically the next HC has to win over the fans and generate some level of excitement for the football program again. We basically need the Football equivalent of Mike Young, and yea it's not gonna be easy.

#makethemove

Unless we beat Clemson (lol) we should not play in a bowl game. This needs to be rebuilt.

Reminds me of Cal Ripken ultimately sitting just to end the streak as it was a constant reminder.

Beat Clemson??????

I'm just hoping we beat the Bye week

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Take the ML on BYE

I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them!

If we're favored over the bye week, we'll lose.

1-0 please...1-0.

HTHokie93

Whit, Pls

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

whit pls

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

What?

Oh...you meant Whit?

We put the K in Kwality

#makethemove

You forgot the GT losses....

Fire him immediately.

Where's the beef?

Thrice to CPJ, and the Triple-Option. Egads!

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

There is a strange, sad peace that I have felt this season, that is new to me in my 16 years of following this program. A win is great. And a loss further cements that this coaching staff has to go. I can only hope that Whit's silence to date is a good thing, since he was quick to address football embarrassments in the past (and man, have we had a lot of them).

You think Bud would come out of retirement to coach VT? If so, you think it could work? At this point we need something before the program dies.

Theo24hokie

You missed the funeral....it was in Viking style....a huge blaze

If Bud was going to be HC, he should've been it in 2016. Doesn't make sense for VT or Bud for him to be HC now.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Bud is sitting on his front porch watching the sunrise while sipping coffee with Buffalo Trace Bourbon Cream with a smile on his face that says I told you so.

Bud is not coming back. He pounding Natty Ice and a shredding Claytor Lake!

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

I just hope we're able to get the team up for the game against UVA, get our Cup back, and then get rid of Fuente.

I don't like calling for someone to lose a job. It is a gross part of sports fandom culture. But, if Whit Babcock's expectation is physical dominance, annual contention for the ACC Coastal, and an inspired and generous base for donations, well it isn't happening. This isn't Hard, Smart, Tough, Fast, or compelling football. The worst part is, I am not even angry. I am apathetic, and happy that I get to take this week to spend time with my family, enjoy some fresh air, and stay away from the world for a week.

But, as much as I was hopeful that Justin Fuente would maintain the hard hat culture in Blacksburg, while adding the offensive creativity that was sorely lacking, it hasn't happened. The talent drop off, and worse yet the drop off In passionate physical style of play, in the last decade is really hard to stomach.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

I think a lot us would take a few years salary to lose our job.

He's gonna make $10M over the next three years to spend time with his kids. Fuente would never have to work again and never go into debt if he didn't want to. I don't like asking for normal people to lose their job, but I don't feel bad for any P5 coach that gets fired.

It would be one thing if we were 8-4 every year and we were like Nebraska fans wanting the glory days back, but VT has gotten worse under Fuente, and this is the most talented team we'll have in the next few years.

Objectively speaking, VT will be the same they are now or worse.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Just remember, not everyone who would lose their job will get that kind of severance. I am not saying that there shouldn't be a coaching change. But, I hate the impact on the other people who aren't getting a $10 million dollar golden parachute when the change comes.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

That's very true. Hoping all the people down stream go on to very successful careers.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

That said, the quotes in the post game are so incredibly tone deaf. For better or worse, this job requires a head man that can energize the fan base. Of all his failures, Fuente's biggest failure is the failure to even moderately enthuse the fan base even in the good moments. You can't just be a coach. You have to be an evangelist for the program, especially when you are not a blue blood and don't have the resource pipeline.

I know there is a fine line between an evangelist and a charlatan, especially in college football, but that is what it takes.

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

This is one of the most insightful comments you've had on TKP, and that's saying something.

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A counter argument could be made that any of the assistants that are on the staff that dont see this coming and haven't already been floating their resume around are just messing with their own careers and future employability. If I was seeing a consistent drop in stock performance quarter by quarter by my employer I wouldn't be sitting around waiting for my termination notice before I started looking for a new gig.

The thing that really sucks is I'd want to keep Tapp on staff.

Perfectly said

Team looks like it's no longer interested in the season sadly . Fuente needs to go

I do worry about players opting out or entering the portal heading into a bye week and then Clemson. I really don't think we should play a bowl game, let's just make UVA our bowl game at this point.

Best case scenario is we're 5-6 in year 5. Covid or not, it's over.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

This has been a unique season, but using the pandemic as an excuse for underperformance is just weak when every team that decided to play this year has been operating under the same conditions. Either way, we are a team with a losing record, and I dont think a non-pandemic season would have helped to improve our record.

Yep.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

#Makethemove

My lips are moving but there's no sound
Someday somebody's gonna get run down

So I know jugs has mentioned they have the money to make the move after the season but is it really going to happen ?

Nah whit probably has a juicy extension lined up...

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

This is what frustrates me the most i think. loyalty when results aren't there and an air of outrage when it's suggested that the results aren't there and might he be considering a change?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

This shit right here justifies the extra $2.5 mil

VB born, class of '14

I get the feeling that Fuente is going to act like a big baby on his way out (despite the payday). Completely lacks self-awareness.

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

Weird that last week when I mentioned I thought it would be ugly, I had someone jump to his personal defense and my comment went like -10. It's like people don't want to believe me because if I'm right it will sting, so they wait until slapping them back and forth across their cheeks

Recruit Prosim

You're not wrong

Welcome to tkp

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

Are you just commenting this on all my posts now?

Recruit Prosim

I don't think he'll be a baby. I think he'll take it in the same emotionless manner that makes everyone on here so mad.

[Crunches water bottle]

"That's it guys. Let's get out of here. That cold drink's waitin' on us, let's go." - Mike Young after win no. 300.

He's proven he's an amazing friend to Cornelson, but that doesn't help him in regards to being a good head coach at VT

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

He doesn't care. He'll burn this fucking thing to the ground if he has to.

Fire his ass

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Sounds like a coach that knows his days are numbered and doesn't care

OMFG I did not think my hatered for FuckHead Fuente could grow....... but Oh My Fucking God fuck this guy 50 ways from sundown!!!!

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

IT GETS WORSE

4-4 and missing 7 starters....................

They'll really get after ya

sigh

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yea because Liberty(TIMEOUT!) Wake and Pitt are fucking world beaters. SMFH!

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

Whit???

We're paying a lot of money to lose to "good people" with mediocre football teams.

We put the K in Kwality

He definitely has a knack at low-key skirting all responsibility and blaming the players

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Has for years

Recruit Prosim

Yeah this is what I have been asking for. This and removal of Cornelsen. That it's so far outside of what he thinks is worth considering is disheartening.

Haven't you been one of his biggest proponents over the years?

Recruit Prosim

Leg. No.

I'm a proponent of giving a person at a high level in your organization an opportunity to make the program their own. Regardless of whether Fuente was the right guy or not, he had demonstrated his capability to create a winning team at Memphis, which had been a trash heap before he got there.

I expounded on this in another comment - I have, and will continue to, advocate hiring qualified people and allowing them to do their jobs, be responsible for the outcomes, fuck up, learn from their fuck ups, and get better.

I've applied this approach with Fuente, and will apply this philosophy to the next guy too. I'm not a proponent of Fuente specifically, I'm a proponent of letting the head coach lead the organization. I wanted the five year plan to see where this guy would take us.

Now I've seen it. I don't need more evidence.

Leg for your thoughts. I personally believe in keeping a tighter leash and felt like I had an understanding of his capabilities by year 3. I think a compromise at 4 years and refusing to sign such a one sided deal while we were actually a desirable destination may be a better plan going forward

Recruit Prosim

I never thought 3 years was enough. We better give the next guy more than 3 years. With the recruiting we've had, it might be hard for the next guy to come in and have success with the recruiting classes he inherits. Like what HorseOnATreadmill said above - I think you gotta give a coach enough time to succeed and as much as I thought Fuente had what it takes and supported giving him time, I'm finally at the point at which we need to move on. With everything we had, and picking up Herbert, I don't understand how we keep losing. I understand some where we scored a lot of points (good on the offense, but the defense was lacking), but this? I mean, Florida State did better against Pitt than us, and they're a dumpster fire.

I honestly feel sorry for the guy who's inheriting the program from Fuente. Tough tough job. Basically opposite situation of 2016. And I guess I'm not even saying 3 years for hard results, more like for a trajectory, a vision, a direction, a pulse.

Recruit Prosim

I mean we've already seen first-hand that it takes at least 2 years just to really transition from one regimes players to another's - just like it took Fuente 2 years for Beamer's safety net to dissolve and his own failure to start permeating the program, it's probably gonna take the next guy 2 years just to climb out of the hole Fuente has dug and that's just if he's good enough to even do it.

That said, while I do think you should probably give any coach 5 years to fully build a program, a good coach that isn't completely bungling recruiting and roster management (like Fuente did leading into 2018) should probably be showing good results by Year 3. Maybe not hitting his peak in year 3, but at least showing you something promising and not bottoming out and telling you "just wait another two years and I'll turn it around."

I probably wasn't clear enough. I don't think we should expect 11-12 win seasons 3 years into a coach's tenure, but if they're recruiting different players players to fit a scheme, maybe the wins aren't there, but hopefully you're seeing disciplined play, player development, and some good recruiting classes by then. Just think it might take 4-5 years before we start seeing the wins we want, but, like I said, there should be evidence of moving in the right direction by year 3.

I think if you hire someone into a winning program you should be able to tell sooner (~3 years). If you hire someone into a struggling program it may take longer to tell (~5 years).

Logic being a winning program should be able to attract a coach's player evals at a higher rate where a struggling program will likely take longer because a coach may struggle to bring in the players they truly want/need.

Unfortunately we're in the latter category. 2024/25 will be our year...

I honestly don't know if its loyalty or straight stupidity at this point. I'm really starting to believe that Fuente and Co. are genuinely surprised that running QB Draw on EVERY DAMN 3RD DOWN doesn't work.

Either way, the contents of his office need to be sitting on the curb in front of Merryman on December 17th.

You cannot support a coach who, in the face of overwhelming failure, refuses to even consider changing what they are doing.

What I don't understand about the uncreative, terrible, lazy play calling is that CJF and BC are football coaches. They do this for a living.

Theoretically, there must be some football film based reason for calling the same play over and over game. Or coaching Hooker to key of a defender to keep it.

I guess what I am saying this: How is it possible that professional coaches with vastly more experience than myself and any other fan makes these tremendously sub-optimal decisions and game plans?

How do they come up with the idea (at a school with limited financial resources) that its easier to get players from Texas than Virginia?

What is the story there? What is the argument they've constructed in their head to support what they are doing?

It is completely mystifying.

Unpopular opinion, but I agree with Fuente here. He hasn't called plays in 8(?) years; I doubt he's prepared to just pick it back up again. Even if he was, he has enough on his hands as it is (normal head coaching stuff + COVID stuff); he doesn't have the time to pick up playcalling duties in addition to everything else. People don't want to believe this, but the optimum division of labor (given the current staff) is probably Fuente doing HC things and Corny doing OC things.

That said, he's not really in a position to testy with fans. He has zero goodwill left, it's not the time to get defensive.

Edit: a word

Twitter me

I hope he's in a position to pack his shit and go.

Is CJF assuming play calling duties a great idea in a vacuum? No. Is it "the most ludicrous crap"? Also no. The subtext of the question is that play calling has been lackluster and needs improvement. Suggesting he take the play calling duties over the bye week isn't any more ridiculous than just hoping that this is the week Corny figures it out

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Like I said, he's not in a position to answer the question the way he did. He could've just said "no, the best thing for the team right now is for everyone to continue occupying their current roles. Everyone's proven that they are capable of doing their job. We'll reevaluate everyone's responsibilities at the end of the year, like we do after every season."

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Then he should give the response you gave not the fire stoking response he gave.

Hokie Club member since 2017

HC things like winning games, schmoozing with donors, invigorating the fans, recruiting top talent and building our brand? If he's not going to own offense, defense, or ST X&Os individually and do poorly at the CEO esque tasks, then what utility is he providing?

Like literally that's all I've heard for 5 years in his defense is that he's heavily involved in the tactics and that he is good at talent identification and development. Our QBs have tons of natural talent that has not been developed and if anything has regressed. I love our players to death but Henson shouldn't barely be able to hit Mitchell and QP shouldn't be throwing the screen into someone's ankles. If he's not directly involved in directing our plays and strategy, literally what does he do?

Recruit Prosim

Fuente, probably:

False... Not once have we seen anything close to that amount of outward-facing emotion with Fuente.

Look, I'm not defending Fuente's performance or tenure here. I don't know what he does all day. I could speculate, but I won't because it's irrelevant to my point.

I'm just pointing out that from an organizational standpoint, it's not easy to just switch responsibilities. It's not like Fuente can just trade responsibilities with Corny, and expect everything to improve magically. The reality is, this is likely a lame duck staff. Instead of completely reorganizing everyone's responsibilities in a 2 week span for some moonshot, it makes the most sense for everyone to do they best they can at their current jobs, and try their best to go out on a high note. Corny has called not-terrible games before; it's not ridiculous to believe he can do it 1 or 2 more times this year.

Twitter me

He could have answered that question differently, with a non-answer in saying "we will evaluate all things to get this thing turned around during the bye week" not answering the question and not pissing the fans off when someone questions the offense..

I'm just pointing out that from an organizational standpoint, it's not easy to just switch responsibilities. It's not like Fuente can just trade responsibilities with Corny, and expect everything to improve magically.

Not trying to pick a fight or anything but in regards to the "improve magically" then why was it sold as such a big deal that he started coaching the scout team?

I'll preface my answer by saying that I don't think running the scout team was some huge game changer of an idea; I interpreted it as more of a training exercise for JHam. Instead of playing chess against himself, JHam gets to practice playing against someone else who may view the game differently.

IMO Helping with the scout team is like a senior executive helping a middle manager analyze the competition. It's strategic in nature. Playcalling would be like a senior exec joining a dev team and coding. It's tactical in nature. I tend to think it's very difficult for individuals to move from a strategic position (aka big picture) to a tactical position (responsible for a ton of small details).

But I've never coached or played football, so what do I know ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ

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I love our players to death but Henson shouldn't barely be able to hit Mitchell and QP shouldn't be throwing the screen into someone's ankles.

It's pronounced "Herndon" (At least if you listened to terrible ACCN commentators it is /s

It's an unwritten law that it's my lunch pail. I've issued the challenge. If someone outworks me, they can get it.
Darryl Tapp

Typo

Recruit Prosim

Maybe it's fair to ask then...what the hell does Fuente do exactly? He's not recruiting right now (COVID I know, but by some accounts he isn't exactly burning up Zoom minutes calling recruits)...aside from a sudden interest in scout team coaching, what does he do exactly? Game planning? If so, it ain't working.

Again, echos of Al Golden at Miami when asked about sacking Mark D'Onofri as DC. It's about to get ugly. Because remember fellow Hokies, it took a slaughter by Clemson for Miami to finally make a move. Guess who we play next week.....

Go Hokies!

I at least hope we score.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

#whitpls #makethemove

Reach for Excellence!

VT Football: It'll get after ya!

Proud Hokie since 2004.

Compare, this to the end of the Beamer years:

His roster still battled, to eek out 7-6 records in 2014 & 2015. His players wanted to send Frank out on a high note; even carrying him off the field the last time in Lane. I don't see that happening now, with CJF. Too many red flags.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

I dunno, get slapped silly by Clemson and beat again by UVA and the players just might carry him off the field....and toss him to the curb.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

There literally might not be enough players left if some of the portal and opt out rumors are true

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

#MAKETHEMOVE

I believe we really need to lure Shane back. Some say he doesnt want to be here some say he burned bridges with 757 coaches some say he wants a bigger program. But hey why not give it a shot we know hes a full blooded Hokie who can motivate and RECRUIT. He can be our Dabo!!!!!!!

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

I'd definitely be optimistic about giving a Shane a go.

He knows VT. His whole family are warm, and receptive to the fanbase. He's learned under some competent-to-elite coaches.

I'd love for another generation or two, to enjoy the kind of Hokie Football, those of us did as students and fans from '93-2011. Part of that, is due to a fan-friendly culture.

#AllAboardTheShaneTrain

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

I know this may not be realistic with all the NFL success he's had, but wouldn't it be nice to pull in a Bruce Ariens to give this program a shot in the arm? He's a friend of the program, and being a good buddy of Frank's, we could probably persuade Shane to return as HC in waiting, while also directing the recruiting portion of the program. Then bring in some of the best coordinators we can get our hands on, and maybe mix in a Mike Vick and/or D'Angelo Hall to bring in some new energy of great Hokies past, while also helping Shane on the recruiting trail.

If we can't sway Ariens away from the NFL, maybe we could see if Frank himself would be willing to come back in the same capacity to give the program the jump start it desperately needs. I mean, it isn't unheard of for that to happen (see Bill Snyder or Mack Brown).

"That man was violating a city ordinance, and I was just doing my duty to enforce it." - Mike Curtis

I could see asking Ariens to help in selecting the next coach. Vick is barred from being a coach because of his felony conviction, but at least getting him out at games and involved I support. Bringing Hall in some capacity would be great, and he did spend a year or two essentially coaching the defensive backs for tWFT before retiring to the announcers booth. I just want the next head coach to reach out to our NFL players and involve them in the program. Recruits get excited by seeing stars they know and want to follow. Just look at Twitter and you can see these guys are still bought in, but also feel alienated.

Bruce Arians is not leaving Tom Brady, Chris Godwin, Mike Evans, Rob Gronkowski, and Antonio Brown to coach the Hokies lol.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Shane is not the guy. He was a terrible recruiter and coach. Remember his boxing glove technique? Richmond recruits that he couldn't close or were busts?

We put the K in Kwality

Ask Alshon Jeffery and Jadeveon Clowney how good of a recruiter he is.

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

Shane didn't recruit Clowney. He was on the staff but wasn't his primary recruiter or even position coach. Not sure about Jeffrey. However, neither of those guys played for VT. We was a poor recruiter for us. Well documented.

We put the K in Kwality

I heard he sealed the deal with Clowney before leaving for Tech. I firmly remeber reading that here a few years ago.

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

This is the most over used line with Shane. That was at South Carolina when they had a legend charismatic head ball coach. Sadly If you look at the record with Shane at Tech it was below average at best. In fact it was god awful. Forget about his inability to recruit Richmond or develop relationships with Richmond HS, but the RB position group went to shit as soon as Billy Hite retired and Shane took over. Don't forget the infamous Wake Game that we LOST and Shane had been given the playbook by a disgruntled Wake coach. We need someone who understands the culture, but I don't think it's Shane for the job.

Pour some Beer on it

Plus this site would turn on Shane in less than 2 years if he isn't winning 8+. Then we'll be back in the same position we are now.

Bullshit.

There would be maybe a handful of posters at most turning on the next coach in that situation. The vast majority of us realize that Fuente's piss-poor recruiting has basically burned the next few years to the ground and whoever the next coach is will have an almost sisyphean task of rebuilding from the ashes.

Just because you are one of the last posters to realize that Fuente isn't going to work out doesn't make the rest of us irrational idiots.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

Breh you're jumping to conclusions about what I meant.

A lot of people seem to forget how much Shane was hated here before he left. Two bad seasons would be enough to jog their memory. I bet you at least half the site wants Fuente gone bad enough to be fine with Shane, but subconsciously don't believe he'll succeed here.

You all act like Richmond is some hot bed for HS football talent in VA. I live in the midlothian area and rarely hear about decent HS players around here.

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

Joel Caleb, Holland Fisher, Raymond Minor, Deon Clark, CJ Reavis, DJ Reid, Desmond Frye, Augie Conte, Tabyous Taylor, Shawn Payne...

We put the K in Kwality

Mostly DBs and WRs who Shane didnt coach and played in average high school districts. Being the best player on a Dominion district team is like being the best wrestler in TNA.

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

You said there isn't talent in Richmond area. These were all 4 and high-3 star guys listed as Shane as primary recruiter. Almost all were busts and didn't finish their careers at VT. Shane burned more bridges with HS coaches in the area then he brought in long term starters. I'm just providing evidence that he was not a good recruiter at VT.

We put the K in Kwality

So its Shanes fault they could'nt live up to the hype or got kicked off the team because of the players dumb decisions??? When you play against Monacan, James River, and Midlothian a lot of kids can look like 4* recruits.

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

Yes. It's Shane's fault that he was a bad recruiter for VT. It's his fault he was a bad evaluator of recruits. It's his fault he burned bridges with high schools coaches. It's his fault his players didn't develop.

I said Shane was a bad recruiter at VT. You spoke about 2 recruits at USC that weren't even listed as his. You said Richmond didn't have any talent. I pointed out the high-level recruits Shane was listed as primary recruiter for that didn't pan out.

Hire Shane if you want to. But recruiting and player development will not improve. There is evidence of him failing at those jobs at this school.

We put the K in Kwality

So OSU and Urban Meyer wanting Joel Caleb as bad as us makes Urban Meyer and bad recruiter with that logic come on man.

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

I gave you 10 names...

Tell you what. You give me the name of a player Shane was the primary recruiter for that was a success and developed through his career.

To your point one player doesn't make a coach. But a pattern of failure does.

We put the K in Kwality

Show me a pattern of failer over the entire coaching career of his instead of 4 years in an area not known for elite talent. If Shane was as bad as you say he is why is he assistant head coach at OU?

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

You may want to go up and read my initial comment. Shane was not a good recruiter at VT. Why would him having success or failure at another place be a better indicator of his ability at the very job he failed?

We put the K in Kwality

Shane was asked to recruit RIchmond RIchmonds not a hot bed for College football recruits! If he failed miserably all around the state and failed at USCe, Georgia and OU then yes he doesnt deserve to be here but hes a well respected coach with success most of where hes been. Seems as though im not alone thinking Shane is more than qualified.

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

I said he was bad at VT. If he was so great here, why wasn't he retained? Why didn't he stay at UGA? Is he even good at OU (have you looked up his recruits at OU and how they've developed)? Does he even recruit? Does he recruit Richmond VA area for OU? Would he be recruiting the same areas here he would at OU?

We put the K in Kwality

He wasnt retained because FUente brought almost his entire offensive staff. Dude if you want to prove Shane that wrong then you look all that shit up.

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

Dude, all I have done is give you facts and you tell me to look it up. I only said he wasn't retained. I didn't say why. Neither you nor I know why he wasn't retained. Just that he wasn't.

I'm not proving Shane wrong. I'm just saying he was not a good recruiter and player developer at VT. I'm sure he's good at what he's doing. In fact, I wished he would have stayed when Fuente was hired. But a lot has come out since he left (wakeyleaks, stores from HS caoches that he pissed off). I don't think hiring Shane would improve our recruiting or development.

We put the K in Kwality

And thats your opinion. The fact I gave you is that Richmond is not a hot bed for blue chip recruits. In my opinion if he had recruited a top running back from Richmond then failed to develop them then I can agree with you but all the players you mentioned were never directly coached by him. Your opinion is hes not good enough to be here. My opinion along with other Hokie fans I know is hes our best shot how about we just leave it at that because if either our opinions actually mattered we would have a say in the matter.

Edit* I told you to look up all the OU stuff if you are so hell bent on pointing out how bad you believe he is.

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

At least we aren't State Penn...right???

Fuente isn't even Dave Doreen. at least Dave realized he had staff issues and cleaned house twice now.

Before our game, I watched Indiana and Ohio State.

Indiana was clearly less talented at most (if not every) position, but they played like they were the #1 team in the country. They gave everything they had, fought until the end, and lost but had a shot to win it at the end.

Even though they lost, man did they look well-coached, motivated, and hungry on every play. That's COACHING right there folks. Sometimes it's not the X's and O's, its the Jimmies and Joes.

I miss VT having a coach that could get us to play like Indiana did today.

Fire Fuente, please....

That was a fun game to watch. It reminded me of our only ACC Championship appearance, that will ever be under Fuente (thanks largely to Beamer's roster and Foster's excellence).

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

I was thinking the exact same thing! Funny enough, the two games ended with the exact same score too (42-35).

Even though they lost, man did they look well-coached, motivated, and hungry on every play.

Different sport, but this quote reminds me of VT vs Duke in the Sweet 16. Say what you want about Buzz in hindsight but he always had his teams highly motivated, hungry and playing to their absolute max.

December 16 2020 hang on guys

Oh please be true. May as well save the 2.5 million at this point.

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

Is beating UVA worth $2.5M? Who on the staff could actually get the team motivated enough to beat UVA? Let's just go with Tapp at this point.

Have you watched at all this season. The chances of beating UVA are EXACTLY the same with or without FUente.

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

No. But, this team may motivate itself to win vs uva, but im not banking on it. Unfortunately, VT football is a dumpster fire. A win vs uva makes NO DIFFERENCE.
I expect vt to be under an interim coach after dec 15th.

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

Thank god.

GIMME A HELL YEAH

My lips are moving but there's no sound
Someday somebody's gonna get run down

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

So what you are saying is that if Whit uses a targeting computer, we are f'ed?

Five star get after it 100 percent Juice Key-Playing. MAN

Obviously he uses a targeting computer, we need someone who puts that away and uses the force

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

Light Side or Dark Side, it don't matter to me. What does matter, is it's not tied to the Disney Trilogy. I only enjoyed the Special Effects and Cinematography. Definitely not the storyline or character arcs.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

I regret that I have but one leg to give this comment.

The Disney Trilogy is a remarkable reference point for just how great we really had it under the Expanded Universe. Kind of like Fuente providing reference to Beamer even at his low points.

HTHokie93

Not sure if I can take 26 more days of CJF shitting directly into my mouth.

Just don't watch. That's what I did today and it was nice.

I'm disgusted with myself for saying that. I can't believe it's gotten to this point.

Planned my Saturday's around our games for decades. Haven't watched a single play since Wake

I've been there since Wake. It wasn't intentional, either. I simply forgot we had a game. Apathy really sucks.

HTHokie93

Anything more you can say privately?

Recruit Prosim

Can someone make a countdown timer for the front page?

Whatever. It was one bad year.

Seasonal Brew means High ABV for football season and standard the rest of the year.

Can Whit at least put out a "IOU one coach firing" note right now? Or maybe post dramatic quote pics on the Gram that couples post right before a break up?

Fickell Campbell Chadwell or Houston please

GTFO = Get The Fuente Out

Hokie Club member since 2017

I look at the buyout this way: it is paid overtime and any job he gets offsets the total. No reason to not pull the trigger.

We put the K in Kwality

Bitter said the other day there is no offset language. Which, if true...is a borderline fireable offense for Whit. No excuse to put your institution in that kind of situation

The offset is a two way street - If we included offset language, then we would receive no buyout if Fuente got hired away. If Baylor had hire Fuente, they would have had to pay VT in order to buy him out.

Yes, I know that sounds laughable now, but in 2017, when the extension was awarded, that was 100% the right move. No one could've known it would get this bad in 2017.

Twitter me

Put your money where your mouth is or STFU.

I will be donating to the Hokie Club for the first time (minus the season ticket thing they offered this year) once Fuente is fired.

Haven't been able to as a recent grad and in grad school, but I will for that. Hope others do as well.

Sure, blame it on the kids Fuente.

Eventually you gotta be able to not call a QB run on 3rd down or not allow a 10 yard cushion on every receiver.

It was already brought up in the game thread but Ill say it here. During one of the time outs they did a closeup on FU and the players in a huttle and the players genuienly look like the loathe and hate the man.... Meanwhile even during the last 4 down years 2012-2015 the kids still looked at Beamer as another father.

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

He's the kind of coach, I would've wanted to play for.

Plenty of his former players defended and praised him, right to the end.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

You need to clarify which coach you're talking about

Recruit Prosim

Beamer always seemed like a fun coach to be around, and one that was another Father Figure to his players. His teams didn't show much quit, especially during final 3 regular games of 2015.

I remember the likes of David Wilson defending him on Twitter, when things started becoming difficult after 2012ish.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

I just realized your sig...should it be temporarily adjusted to Fuentanus Eunt Domus? Not saying I'll cut your balls off if you don't change it or anything...

I laughed

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

Can someone find a screen cap of this? I didn't watch the shitshow, but I'd love to see this.

Riiiiggghht, Justin because our Tackling was the reason why we didn't score a single point in the 2nd Half.

Its one thing to be successful and arrogant; there's a term for arrogant losers---"Asshole"

Fuente is an asshole.

The lack of dedication and enthusiasm by the players is evident. Fuente is just not connecting with his team. I am not the one who screams fire the guy after every loss. But I sense a loss of direction, a loss of focus, a loss of passion, and no confidence that we can win. The sun is beginning to set on the Fuente era. He came in with such high hopes. And the first two years were decent. But now it's just confused mediocrity. He appears to not know what to do. The ship has no rudder. He may not be out Dec 17, but guaranteed he won't fulfill his entire contract.

Watched this game with UCLA alum and a Wisconsin alum...we all lost...asked them which of the three had the worst loss. It was unanimous...VT. at least two unbiased hardcore college football fans said we sucked something awful (and they have been watching us all season). We need a change, and that's coming from jaded non VT fans. Its.much worse than we all think. Fuente is Baghdad bob.

I worked on the yard, cleaned the house for the in-laws coming over tomorrow for lunch, went out and picked up some pizzas...all this whilst the game was happening. That was the least amount of a game I've watched in a long, loooong time. I didn't want to lose the game, but at the same time, was able to acknowledge that the worse we get blown out, the better a chance we move on from the lame duck. I feel like a bad person/fan for doing so, but goddamn man...at some point this shit has to stop.

Told my wife in the 20ish years of the Beamer reign I was around for, I could count on one hand (less, really) the games that Tech was genuinely completely out of. Seems like those are piling on.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

I watched the game, but actually caught myself thinking the same thing. Once it became clear we were out of it, I almost felt some peace thinking the worse the loss, the less likely Fuente is our coach next season.

Fuente believes he can win unless he has to "pLaY GoOd pEoPlE."

Who in the college football world would hire him as a head coach now? He is destined to be an OC (as long as he doesn't have to coach against a team with "gOoD pEOpLe.")

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

I'm getting the feeling I should not watch my recording of the game....

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

Negative. Go do literally anything else.

If you were postponing a prostate exam, now is the time. You'll come out happier.

Wire the kayak and drink beer it is.

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

I'm embarrassed that there is a recording of the game. BURN IT!!!!

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

Anyone else miss Beamer's "they'll get after ya" post game loss speaches with the crap FUente spews?

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

Anyone else miss Beamer

Yes.

Idk you tell me....

They'll really get after ya

Bring back Shane!

Can we just demote Fuente for the next month; make him take some online leadership training videos or something? Just keep him away from the team, as it only gets worse each week he is around them.

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

James Gayle gave his two cents. His hatred of UVA know no bounds. Thought I'd add it to provide some sort of laugh.

Can you imagine the humiliation in having to take 10 million pennies to the bank? Or better yet, the humiliation in pouring 10 million pennies into a Coinstar machine?

$10m in pennies would be 1 billion pennies

I don't think that many actually exist. But I'd be willing for us to try and find out.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

There's a coin shortage!

We put the K in Kwality

There has never been a shortage of pennies...hahaha

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Hah! Whoops too many beers. A quick Google search says there are 150 billion pennies in circulation so it's possible

You could mix in some dimes and nickels!

"Hey Bud, you wont have to hold the opponent to 17 points anymore."

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Might have been the funniest movie of all time. And it is even funnier now as many people today are too dumb to understand the meaning and would flip out if it was shown. Slapshot is funnier now as well because of all the people who would flip out of the saw it.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

James Gayle is the GOAT of VT trash talkers. An artist.

God I love that man.

What's he up to these days?

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

I believe he is in the real estate business in the peninsula area.

Edit: that info is outdated. Have a buddy that lived in the same apt complex in Hampton years ago when he first got started. Gayle has an instagram page that now says Miami.

Niiice

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

Asking for a friend?

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

I'm placing the blame on that mfer too

I don't know what's worse, Fuente's pride or his loyalty. My friend and I talk about Fuente's pride and how he thinks so much of himself that he can't take feedback, criticism or the reality that the program is burning right in front of him. As a leader he has shown no humility to get better or to stand up for his guys on the filed and that is the crap that helps sink the ship.

Theo24hokie

Im glad I decided to get drunk and not watch the game

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

I got drunk while watching the game and am now in 5 hour drive down to outer banks, not my best decision and that is something coming from me...

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

The losses in 2016 and 2017 hurt. But since then, I've just grown more and more apathetic towards the team when we lose.

I usually get super pumped up for the start of a new season, but assuming there will be fans allowed in Lane Stadium next year I just can't imagine getting season tickets next year if we keep Fuente. Sadly, I have to image a lot of fans feel the same way.

For the past three seasons, even when we've gotten a little momentum on our side, I'm just always worrying that we're going to come out flat and look uncoached and unmotivated.

The sting of watching your fanbase lose interest and stop donating / stop coming to Lane Stadium has GOT to be worse than biting the bullet, paying the buyout and making the move.

Whit Babcock's last 2 football hires have been Tommy Tuberville at Cincinnati (disaster) and Justin Fuente here (disaster).

We are on the precipice of the most important hiring in the history of Virginia Tech athletics and the athletic director is on strike 2.

For all of Whit's positives, if he whiffs on another football Head Coach....

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

What amazes me is that I was feeling very good and positive after UNC. Finally had a good offense with a strong running game, which we had not had in about a decade. We lost a game on the road to a team that had more talent than we did and never quit but fought back and made it a game. Was not bummed at all. Won to go to 3-1 and was one of the more positive people on the year. five games later with a 1-4 record - including 2 losses where we were heavily favored - and I want the clown gone. If he wasn't one of the shittiest recruiters in the nation, maybe you could deal with it, but the team will only get worse. Look to be about 3-9 if Fuente is still the HC in 2 years.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

I agree with this, and I think it deserves a thread of it's own. I don't understand how this team went from physically dominating the LOS (at least on offense) to getting dominating.

Twitter me

This is the most frustrating part. On the early part of the year the offense seemed to be clicking and the OL dominated people.

The defense was bad but new system, no spring ball so really expected. Now the offense seems to be regressing. I honestly can't understand running QB powers straight into one of the top rushing defenses in the country.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Its time.... time to lure Shane back to Blacksburg... Time to get back to our roots.

He has the experience of what works and doesn't work at big time programs.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

I'll just add my two cents since everyone else has said everything else - I think Justin Fuente is a decent dude and despite his failings in winning games or being more open to the public, he shouldn't be ridiculed. He failed. But he didn't set out to, and it was a tough job for anyone to replace Beamer. He did it, for better or worse, and it's time to move on. No reason to trash him, his wife or family.

David Clowney (currently on staff with the jets) chiming in that he would like to be WRs coach or OC. At this point, I say give him a shot!

Probably Knows he is gong to be job searching as well

I mean, he's actively trying to get the extra $2.5M to be fired before 12/15... right? That's the only logical explanation for the shitshow that today has been.

Agenda:
- Lose horrifically
- Take zero responsibility for horrific loss
- Blame players/fans/anyone else except yourself and your extremely inept OC

I'm a bad listener... I watched anyways....

#makethedamnmove

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

HA! I LOLed when I read this, we tried to warn ya. Fuente losses on the DVR They'll Get After Ya!

H_O_K_I_E_S-HOKIES!

Proud Member Of The Key Play Community Since January 2012.

I think I'm more pissed at the postgame presser. The dude NEVER even looked interested in the folks asking the questions. Totally out of touch. My favorite exchange was about how he's run a QB power on 4th and short for 4 years. Like, Justin, that's the fuckin problem here- at this point, my 8 year old son can say "watch this dad, Hendon is gonna run it!" (And still getting excited about that because he doesn't yet understand the situation). If my fuckin 8 year old is calling the play on 4th and short, I'm just guessing that every single DC in the nation is probably going to guess your play too.

Get him out of here. Make the damn move. Pandemic or not, this guy ain't it.

Warning- Filter lost.

"Look at this... This is just spectacular.... These people are losing their minds"

Parents of players are fighting each other on Twitter now. The masterpiece is almost complete :chefskiss:

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Didn't see that last night, can you embed tweet?

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Long been a proponent of giving Fuente time. I said, and have maintained, from the beginning that VT is a 6 year build. There is no momentum in this program to make it through 5, let alone 6 years.

#makethemove

I take literally no pleasure in having reached this point. The fact that I don't even care what the exact time and date of our next game is, the fact that I've never felt apathetic towards VT football until now in a decade of rooting and going to games, the fact that I'm thankful that there are no fans in the stadium this year, so I don't waste 8 hours of driving to a game and home (not including all the other gametime/pregame/postgame).....

#MakeTheMove

Do it the day the buyout drops, because it's time. I was stoked for the Fuente hire (and seriously annoyed my wife while drunk and coming off Beamer knocking off loluva one last time). First year was great, and some expected regression in year two with key departures and such. Three was okay, but disappointing. Now it looks like we won't even hit .500 for the season and we're not recruiting at a P5 level.

I think at this point Whit will hold off on firing Fuente because of the buyout, but firing Corny, Williams, Claeys wouldn't have a 12 million price tag. Corny is obvious, has not developed any quarterback, horrible at play calling etc. Williams, while he has had some players out with injuries and such, still hasn't been able to develop the receivers we have. Tre is the same receiver he was as a fr. Claeys we pay too much money to and he hasn't enhanced the defense any.

1-0 every week

The big lesson for Whit, is it doesn't matter how good year 1 is. Don't extend a coach until at least year 3.

Isn't that obvious for an experienced AD?

We would have thought so... But Fuente's contract.

The market was hot in 2017, and Fuente was (or at least appeared to be) in demand. If Fuente left after the 2017 season, we'd all be complaining that Whit was too cheap to spend an extra million to keep around one of the hottest coaches in the game.

I said it once, and I'll say it again: Whit made the right move based on the information available at the time. It's remarkable how things have changed since then, and I don't think anyone saw this coming.

Twitter me

I'm thinking more and more Fuente is gone. Even with lost revenues due to COVID, if donors are stopping their donations, that hurts the athletic department (not just football) even more. I know one person on here said they had a friend who (if I'm remembering correctly) is a big donor who stopped after the Liberty game. I don't know how many more have stopped, but I gotta guess there's a lot more displeasure than just us. And I don't know how many guys held out for Fuente the longest (I'm one of those), but he's eroded any confidence I had in him at this point - I'm assuming the others are out of good will also. But my main point is if donors stop donating because of the football program, it won't matter how big the buyout is. My guess is Whit uses the time between now and the buyout decreasing to line up the next coach (well, that's my hope anyways) and we'll have an announcement about Fuente on the 16th hour would it be 17th?) and about a week later (Christmas present to us all?) an announcement of a new coach (all purely conjecture).

We have three 4 Star QBs and we can't beat UNC, Wake, Pitt, or LIBERTY?!

Yes, it's way past time for Fuente to go. Hopefully Christmas comes early on 12/16.

Or da U, cause they are bak

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

It really is a shame we have reached this point. I just don't think CJF was prepared to lead a program with actual expectations. It's one thing to come into Memphis and be able to load up on JUCOs, transfers, and guys with borderline FBS talent until something clicks. Most of those guys don't have many other options, and the my way or the highway schtick can actually work. I just don't think he knew what he was getting into coming to VT, and he just doesn't know what to do to fix things. I don't question he wants to win, I just don't think he knows how to right the ship at this point. Some very stubborn traits too which is ultimately going to cost him his job here. It's just time for both sides to move on and for us to look forward to the next chapter. Build for tomorrow.

Yes this exactly.

Hard, smart, tough.

Anyone else scared he is gonna upset Clemson and UVA and keep his job because Covid?

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

There's no path to victory. Let it go. It's over.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Normally I would agree but it is 2020 so...

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

KCCO

Best we can do with Clemson is another Fuente signature quality loss (like this great 2016 L we had). I do think because of covid, if Fuente somehow beats UVAh he'll probably get one more year.

Hokie Club member since 2017

Brace yourself for a portal entry in the next seven days.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Ugh. A surprising one?

Could any of them possibly be surprising?

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

A starting WR who has TD's this season. Twitter account already scrubbed.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Well according to this:
https://hokiesports.com/sports/football/stats
There are only three receivers with at least one TD. One player has a single TD so that rules them out. The other two are:
Tavion Robinson
Tre Turner

I wouldn't be happy to see either one of them leave but I really really don't want to lose Tre.

Does his name rhyme with Bae Burner?

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

And a QB throwing to him lol

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

Havent hears that one from anyone.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Chicago

Recruit Prosim

I'll be overridden with joy if it's just limited to him.

I have no idea why my username is VT_Warthog.

Arkansas blew a 24-0 lead in the Belk Bowl.

That'd be too bad. I like him. We just never developed himm.

You mean, 'should be throwing to him, but, instead, being told to run it up the middle into a wall time after time.'

"Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

A few more possibly looking to go home for thanksgiving and finish the year remotely. Wouldn't be shocked to see 10+ opt out during the bye week.

I know a few will opt out for the rest of the season but as of now want to come back to Tech. One of them his uncle is bringing him over to talk next week. Wants to get my thoughts on the academic and post football experience that Tech will afford him. Will see if the player wants to talk or not.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I hope BPT is one of those. I can understand opting out the rest of this season, but depending on who the next person is, it could really benefit him to stay.

This is the absolute worst part of the Dec 16 key date and the season being later than usual this year. Little time to have the replacement lined up to salvage the roster or recruits prior to early signing day. I expect we will see the portal and decommits to be very active the next few weeks.

At this point there's really nothing that can save next year.

Bad recruiting has sealed that fate.

So I can't say I have any expectations except a hope that our next coach has some energy and shows the fans some love.

For example: I can't tell you how special it was when I was just learning to love VT football as a young boy, being able to watch scrimmages & practices or watch through the holes in the canvas hung on the fence around the practice field.

Some of the smallest things can pay off for decades.

I've thought about transferring myself.

"Give me a fuยขking beer", Anonymous Genius

We're Clemson fans now

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I'm more interested in NFL football than college football for the first time in 22 years. The program under Fuente has forced me in to a Kingsbury fail-up situation.

Is that player entering the portal to get away from Fuente, or do they want to leave because they know Fuente is gone?

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Fuente?

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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What

Tre posted that in the new "fleet" (disappearing tweets) on his Twitter. He has also scrubbed his Twitter account of all Hokies header info. He is going to enter the portal soon and opt out of the rest of the season.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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Oof yeah his recent tweets definitely hint at leaving. "Gotta do what's best for me not them"

This really sucks man, but I honestly can't blame him. His talent is being squandered here right now. I truly wish him the best.

This makes me all kinds of sad if he leaves, especially since he was rumored to have been recovering from a foot injury this season. Always wanted to see him get his, more than any other player this year. Whit pls.

Oh now you want to do something about the staff?

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this is sad, but I don't blame him, are we even gonna have enough players to field a team for our last two weeks?

No Tre vs. Clemson? Here come the Clemson 4th string DBs to get their work in

Hokie Club member since 2017

#makethemove

I'm a hard no on Shane.

This program is in a dark place, the last thing we need to do is to hire an unproven personality.

Honestly, the hire needs to be of a Buzz Williams caliber, someone who knows how to run a program, even if it comes at a premium and even if that coach will move on after 4 or 5 years.

Honestly, I think Fuente was put in a bad spot from the get to, and had to deal with the impossible. Sort of like dealing with a bad marriage and being the rebound girl/dude that has to also become a step parent; just too much baggage to deal with.

Clean slate, proven coach is what this requires.

I agree here - we're in a position now where we should not be looking for a long-term solution right now as much as we should be looking for somebody who can undo what Fuente did and at least get us back to the respectability we had in 2015. If somebody can come in and do that in 2-3 years and then "big dog" us for a better program, it should be viewed as a huge success.

Sadly I don't know that there's a Buzz equivalent in football. Name a proven coach of that caliber that's open to moving jobs. I think part of the difference is in basketball the smaller schools can play against and compete with the power 5, so Buzz was able to prove himself at Marquette. Whereas a coach at a smaller school in football just doesn't have the same opportunities to prove themself. In my opinion to get a football coach as good as Buzz you're going to have to take a flyer on someone.

Whoever the Buzz Williams of football is, we can't afford him.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

When I was in high school, I tore my ACL. In the month leading up to my surgery, I had to do all of these weird exercises as a part of my "prehab." It all felt pointless because I knew my knee wasn't going to actually get better until they did the surgery and completely reconstructed my knee.

VT football has torn its proverbial ACL. Right now we're just going through the motions of prehab. Will it be cool if look semi-competitive against Clemson? Sure. Will it feel good if we get the Cup back? Of course. None of that will matter in the grand scheme of things unless Fuente is fired and we reset the program.

Weird analogy, I know, but it feels very similar to me.

Marshall University graduate.
Virginia Tech fanatic.
Formerly known as JWillHokieAlum.

I'm just hoping we can get somebody quick to convince some of our players to stay.

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Proud Hokie since 2004.

That is my largest worry. The turnover is inevitable - but it will probably match the year to year turnover that Fuente creates and allows....

Favorite play that never was - "Hooker with the dime to Pimp...leton."

Vice to HC/OL
Get a new OC
Keep the defensive staff.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I'm not sure Cornelsen makes it another week if a few of these tidbits are true. Players hate him and want him gone, basically saying if he's here I'm out. Cornelsen's attitude this year has been who cares we have the COVID excuse and will get another year. It's been rubbing the kids the wrong way and this week was a tipping point.

Take with grain of salt but there's locker room issues AGAIN.

Fu should fire him if that is the case.

Fu (in his typical fashion) has already backed himself into a corner on this one with his "ludicrous" comments yesterday.

The completely and utterly unwarranted Hubris of members of this Staff is simply damn astounding. Cornelson will never have another job at the P5 level again.

That's the most ludicrous crap I've ever heard/s

Overheard as Duke assistant coaches took elevator down from press box: โ€œGuys, they stopped the run with a three-man front.โ€ - David Teel Tweet 2018

I mean... come on Fuente.

I would actually also like to hear from Kumah et al at this point.

I don't think Cornelsen is good and if this is true then I'm double/triple/quadrupling-down on Fuente being able to be here next year if he dumps Cornelsen and tries to right the ship without him.

Cornelsen has been an obvious problem since as early as 2017, at this point Fuente has quadrupled down on sticking with him despite now 4 years of evidence that he should have moved on.

Why should Fuente be given a pass for another year if he only realizes it now when he's completely backed into a corner and his job is on the line? At this point Fuente has directly assumed all responsibility for Cornelsen's issues by refusing to make a change earlier.

Half of me respects Fuente's willingness to kill his career and ride or die with his boy....the other half thinks he's a stone cold moron. Like what a good friend to have...you can even get fired from your jobs together!

"Give me a fuยขking beer", Anonymous Genius

This is an entirely fair comment and I don't entirely disagree.

I'd counter with this:

Anyone at a high level in any organization got there because of the people they've trusted and brought with them along the way. Maybe their subordinates were brought along because they were supremely talented. Maybe they were brought along because they were good people that were trusted. Maybe they were riding coattails. No idea.

At some point, anyone who wants to demonstrate their best capabilities will necessarily encounter a decision point where they may have to cast aside the very people that helped them get there - for the good of the organization. That which brought Fuente to this point isn't entirely what will make him successful in his current position.

I'd like to think that this is a hard boundary to cross. From being successful with your guys to realizing that you now need to be successful without your guys in order to take the next step. I can't say I think that Fuente deserves another shot at it at this point because the writing (and recommendations, and evidence, etc) have been on the wall for a few years.

But if Fuente decides to part ways with Cornelsen, then I'd argue that he's crossing that threshold. Friends matter less than success when you have millions (literally) of people that rely on you. It's no longer your internal team that matters most, it's now the extended family. Millions of us. Literally.

And if he makes that decision, then I'm not against giving him the support he'll need to be successful with this new mindset.

Great thought.

Given the topic, it seems more and more like Darrell Dickey, who Fuente also wanted to bring to Tech, was the actual brains behind the Memphis offensive operation.

Curious - any idea why Dickey wasn't brought along? Maybe it was described back then but I certainly do not remember.

He didn't want to relocate his family, believe his daughter was set to graduate high school.

I don't suppose we'd be able to pony up the $800k+ a year to hire Dickey away from A&M to replace Corn.

Assuming that would even be something Fu would do.

it seems more and more like Darrell Dickey, who Fuente also wanted to bring to Tech, was the actual brains behind the Memphis offensive operation.

Everyone says this, but there's no evidence to support this. Fuente has repeatedly said that when he first handed over playcalling duties, it was to Corny. This makes sense, because DD is now at Texas A&M, and Jimbo is notorious for being one of the few college head coaches who retained playcalling duties.

That said, I do recognize that DD could have provided a ton of value outside of playcalling.

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Fuente also said J-Ham was his top choice for defensive coordinator. He's loyal (to a fault) and publicly backs his guys. I dug through a bunch of old Memphis articles last night before I posted and they all credited Dickey with the offensive success at Memphis.

Sounds like whoever hired him didn't do their homework then.

Hard, hard, hard agree.

That which brought Fuente to this point isn't entirely what will make him successful in his current position.

You see this all the time in organizations; starting a business, scaling a business, and running a corporation require completely different skillsets. Very few leaders are able to do all 3. The best leaders learn how to learn, and are able to adapt to new situations.

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This is not true. Maybe for some people, but certainly not all. In fact most director/VP level people I deal with got there by throwing others under the bus

Recruit Prosim

Hehe true I've seen this too.

I've seen the opposite to be honest. Most people with a throw-them-under-the-bus mentality get stuck at the upper/middle manager. You don't make it to CEO with that attitude, at least not tech (only industry I've worked in).

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Then you've been lucky. I work in tech startups, and I'm probably shooting 50% when it comes to CEOs who throw their team under the bus. Sometimes to the board, sometimes during the all-hands, sometimes during planning/post-mortem sessions, but at some point they put the blame on everyone except themselves, the CEO.

I mean, my comment goes out the window when someone has founded the company. But for someone trying to climb an existing ladder, I think it holds true.

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I've seen this and always wanted to categorize these types as those that will have a short lifespan and will have to move on. Teams don't survive when this is the norm. Anyone who does this is more interested in their own success than the success of the organization. I wouldn't want to work for them.

Unfortunately that's wrong. It's the subordinates that get caught in the wash.

We talk about play calling, but there's also recruiting. Even if he got rid of Cornelson, I don't think recruiting would improve enough with just the one replacement.

Presumably, a new OC would bring in a completely new staff, and that would be an opportunity to address recruiting needs.

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But would a new OC really bring in his own guys? That means Vice would be out, Lechtenberg, and possibly Shibest. That would mean Fuente would have zero or almost zero of "his" guys on staff any more. Do you think he'd do/allow that? I strongly doubt it. Plus, it's not liked we picked up any great recruits on the defensive side. So it's not just offensive recruiting that needs fixing.

Fuente would have zero or almost zero of "his" guys on staff any more. Do you think he'd do/allow that? I strongly doubt it.

The only way Fuente stays employed at VT is if he cleans house (and that might not even be enough). He'll need to go to Whit and say 'this is everything I've done wrong, and this is my plan to correct it.' And that assumes that Whit is willing to actually give Fuente an ultimatum, instead of firing him immediately the day his buy out drops.

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I saw the same thing on VT Scoop, but worse. That said, it was not from a poster who has a history of reliable sourcing.

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You referring to OrangeHokieFan's comments?

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I believe so.

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Some more context to all of this: we have two cheap coordinators. One of them is in their first year. Honestly not sure what success we expect to have when we have an OC who's market value when he came here was $430k (and he's probably one of the better OC's making that much).

Not sure if this can be extended to the recruiting conversation or not, but as far as on field results we're getting out what we put in.

I am almost glad that Fuente reacted the way he did to Barber's question. He and Corny need to ride this sinking ship down together. A sacrificial OC firing will not fix the rot within the program, or transform recruiting overnight. We couldn't convince any reputable DC to coach with Fuente before his seat was on fire. No OC in their right mind will join him for a lame duck year.

It's Fuente or bust.

If Fuente is so damn hands off of the offense we never truly hired a"offense minded coach" . Should have just hired Bud

Whit pls make the move and tell CJF to

Vroom Vroom

If Fuente needs to be fired, it stands to reason that Whit should be on a very short leash as well...

Um, no? Is his track record perfect? No. Is it pretty damn good? Yes.

His hires:
Fuente (not working now but given the info he had at the time this was a good/great hire)
Buzz (absolute great hire, elevated VT basketball)
Mike Young (TBD, but trajectory is solid)
Kenny Brooks (good hire, VTWBB is on a solid trajectory)

While I agree that Whit has elevated so many programs at VT, I do think his seat needs to get a little bit warmer.
Assuming Fuente is gone soon, which I know most want, he really needs hit on his next hire. The truth of the matter is that football is the main revenue generator for athletics and it's crucial to continue to have a successful program to bring in money for all athletics. If I'm the CEO of a company and 4/5 divisions are really growing... but the last division has been tanking... and that 1 division brings in like 75% of revenue for the company... I think you get my limited analogy there.

This is basically why I think Fuente goes after this season. From what it sounds like, donors may stop donating because of football, and that could kill your whole athletics program. Especially since we're losing ticket revenue.

It can be argued that Fuente was a good hire at the time.

However, extending Fuente as early as Whit did + the subsequent disaster that Fuente has become is, in fact on Whit.

You can "hindsight is 20/20" all you want, but it was the single most important hire Whit made, and it has failed in spectacular fashion and will put our program in a massive hole financially.

Whit needs to answer the bell for that. If he doesn't have a home run hire to replace him, that's a major problem and significant indictment on him as an AD.

With all due respect to Brooks, Young, the Olympic coaches etc. etc. the importance of football outweighs all of them combined.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Extending Fuente was 1000% the correct move. Going to repeat a comment I made above:

The market was hot in 2017, and Fuente was (or at least appeared to be) in demand. If Fuente left after the 2017 season, we'd all be complaining that Whit was too cheap to spend an extra million to keep around one of the hottest coaches in the game.

I said it once, and I'll say it again: Whit made the right move based on the information available at the time. It's remarkable how things have changed since then, and I don't think anyone saw this coming.

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Add Tony Robie (wrestling) and John Szefc (baseball) to the list. I don't follow either that closely, but both were lauded as good moves when they were made.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Football is by far the most important part of the job at VT and it's declined precipitously under Whit Babcock. Period. End of statement. Any other ACC level program exists solely thanks to the largesse of football.

Fair or not, that's reality.

Further, short of an Urban Meyer type hire in December that stabilizes the roster and immediately vaults tech into top-10 recruiting territory, the program hasn't hit bottom yet.

So let that sink in.

i think there's a difference in "results" and "program". tbh this program probably needed to bottom out and rebuild, but we went through two half transitions (frank + bud to fuente + bud to fuente + ham) rather than one painful one. it's nice for Pete Moris to tweet out about a bowl streak, but i think i'd rather lose the bowl streak if it meant getting back to 10 win seasons. this staff was trying to tread water and climb at the same time and that's pretty tough.

if we have a 3 win 2021 with an obvious shift in energy and recruiting, does that make the program in a worse place than it is now? i don't really think so, but that might just be me.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

A fair and fine distinction. I also don't care about a meaningless bowl streak. I'm concerned about how bad the roster could be next year and what the product on the field could be. There are degrees of possible ugly to a 3-win season. One with "an obvious shift in energy and recruiting" is the absolute best you could hope for. There's plenty of room for worse.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

They have 4 years to bottom out rebuild and come back strong because if we lose to JMU again in 2025 I will have to avoid my JMU grad wife for the rest of my life.

Hokie Club member since 2017

That will be a tall task.

I will have to avoid my JMU grad ex wife for the rest of my life.

Vroom Vroom

I agree - this is something I said when people were complaining about Fuente before, so many programs have a large initial dip when a new coach comes in, then you see it building back up. We didn't want to lose Bud, but that made it harder for a full rebuild. I thought things were going to get better when we started the season scoring like we were, but as good as our offenses seemed (I almost wonder if they were playing harder to make up for all the guys out on defense, and now that we have most of the defense back, that extra effort went out the door?), it's way too inconsistent and as everyone has pointed out, recruiting has been awful for a program that should be on the rise from a rebuild.

my pushback to this line of thinking is that Whit hires, but he doesn't "do". Again, given the info he had at the time, I would argue that his football hire and the extension were the right moves. That's all I can hold him accountable for.

Fuente was a great hire at the time. From what we knew, he checked all the boxes and was widely seen as a home run hire. Most talking heads thought that VT and Fuente would be a perfect union.

Sometimes you just get burned with a candidate whose resume doesn't fit the actual skillset. That is what happened here. The only thing you can do is cut bait and try again.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

That would be extremely short sighted. The average tenure of a FBS coach is like 4 years. Hiring a football coach is a crapshoot. You have the benefit of hindsight, what realistic hire could Whit have made in 2016 that would have been better than Fuente? Lot of the names people had on their short lists haven't fared much better than Fuente and some have been substantially worse.

What's short sighted? I'm not calling for his head, just pointing out that he's presided over a significant, long term decline in the program. I think his status, which is near messianic in some parts of Hokielandia, is overdue for some healthy skepticism. And turning around the football program should be his top priority... followed closely by increasing revenues... not padding director's cup points or some of the other things the department has pursued under his direction. And if that means cutting other programs, so be it...

If the next coach doesn't get the job done (assuming he'll need a minimum of 3-4 seasons), then we're closing in on nearly two decades of mediocrity... That's how you become Pitt.

Edit: But unlike Pitt, VT doesn't have a $4.31 billion endowment to leverage.

I interpreted your first comment as strictly judging him based off of hiring Fuente. Hiring a good football coach is hard, and I think its far more likely to miss on a hire then to hit on one. I actually agree with you on spending on other sports. In particular I question whether we are seeing or will see a good ROI on the money we have shelled into Men's Basketball. I don't think basketball will ever move the needle like football with the fan base.

He needs to get fired as soon as reasonably possible. I don't think replacing Corny is going to be enough. What decent OC would sign up for a potential lame duck situation in 2021, especially if players start to test the transfer portal?

An OC who knows that if he recruits well and his unit improves that he might be the next HC.

Yes. Yes he does

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

This morning would've been the time to pull the trigger if Whit was going to prior to the end of the season. You have the bye week to adjust to interim coaches/coordinators. Since Fu had his Monday presser it's not happening until after the season.

We put the K in Kwality

Yep. Hopefully we don't see a boatload of opt outs and guys going into the portal. New coach will have his work cut out for him, trying to salvage some sort of recruiting class and retaining the current team.

Especially with this past year not counting towards anyone's eligibility and a free one time transfer with no sit out. Oof

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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I think we have to keep him until December 16 to get the buyout down another $2 million? That may be the difference between making his firing affordable and not affordable, who knows? They need to keep that 2 mil out of his pocket given the other financial difficulties happening right now.

The players will hopefully chill and wait a few weeks before they make any big decisions. It's not like they have to wait months to see what happens.

I think we have to keep him until December 16 to get the buyout down another $2 million?

His buyout is paid in quarterly installments through 2024. So the extra $2.5m would be paid out across a 3 year period = ~830k/year. That's enough for us to employ the 39th highest paid assistant coach for the next 3 years.

Let's hold off for 3 weeks.

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It's clear from the way Fuente talks that they are definitely holding off. (Whit does not strike me as a fire out of the blue type person). The question now is whether they give him a non COVID year (thank God for the news of these 3 vaccines, although spring will still be affected). I'd almost rather see him get a non COVID year since literally every defense Fuente has is talking about COVID. Especially if Whit is not loving his replacement choices right now. The next hire HAS to be a good or we could be writing off the hokies for a decade.

Hokie Club member since 2017

Especially if Whit is not loving his replacement choices right now.

I mean, there's actually a lot of good choices out there this year, and so far, not much competition. We'll see if Michigan or PSU open, but right now it's looking like VT could be a top dog in a coaching search.

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Yeah I agree. I changed my mind... Pay him 10m on dec and let's get on with it

Hokie Club member since 2017

I mean this is some really excellent company we're keeping lately.

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

To me, the 2 biggest reasons I want Fuente gone are (1) terrible recruiting and (2) this - this terrible play against lousy teams. And that includes the wins like Furman.

Had asked this on a prior thread and wonder if any of the stats guys know, has there ever been a team in modern history that has lost more than 4 games in a single season when favored? We have 4 (although it was absurd we were favored over Miami), and it is pretty hard to do that. Bad teams are not favored. Teams that lose a lot if favored early would no longer be favored late in the year.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

Penn State might do it this year lol

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Oh man, that is a good point. How could I have missed that? They probably were favored in a lot of those early games. Would be so sweet if my most despised team actually out-stunk us. But they do have the recruiting,

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

the Furman squeaker is an underrated embarrassment

Hokie Club member since 2017

Happens a lot more than you might think; I would guess at least a couple times per year. Just did a quick search and found '16 Michigan State, '18 USC, and '19 Miami (lost SIX games while favored) who fall in that category. And yeah, maybe '20 Penn State who somebody mentioned above; I didn't check them though.

Wow. That is amazing to me, and definitely more than I would have thought. Thank you for doing the digging. Was not sure how to even try to look it up.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

I think the SP+ and vegas formulas need to learn how to factor in one dimensionality. We had a really great offense to start the year. Especially when Hooker returned. However, I think Hooker presented a false threat to pass that loosened up the run game. Once game film illustrated our tendencies for scheming the passing game, the one dimensional run game got shut down. The lack of a traditional passing offense has been the real achilles hill this year. The defense has been horrendous, but they have improved while the offense has regressed.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

SP+ historically has failed to correctly predict success rates for triple option teams. That said, statistically speaking, we're not that one dimensional. One the season, we've rushed for 2,258 yards and passed for 1,793 yards, on 383 and 128 attempts, respectively. Sure, that's run heavy, but that doesn't scream 'One-dimensional' either.

Vegas on the other hand, isn't trying to predict winners, they're trying to predict gamblers. Vegas doesn't care who wins the game, they care that the house makes money.

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I think op's point about being "one-dimensional" was more a comment on our pass game being set up off the run. Most (at least it feels like most, I haven't seen any numbers) of our pass game has been some kind of misdirection or screen play to scheme an easy completion. We have been pretty lacking in a traditional drop back pass game, as highlighted by our lack of ability to run a 2-minute drill.

Agree with OP's point. I was more correcting his understanding of SP+. SP+ is "simply a measure of the most sustainable and predictable aspects of football" - basically says 'these are the 5 things that require very little luck and tend to result in wins when done consistently.'

And VT does those things right more often than most teams.

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Ah all good, I thought you were arguing we aren't actually one-dimensional. Which I guess may be true by the numbers, but I think we can all agree by the eye test this team is pretty limited in what we can do offensively.

I still think calling this team 'one-demensional' is an oversimplification. They can pass the ball when the run is (mostly) working and they need to move the chains. They pass the ball well enough to keep opposing defenses honest. They cannot win a game without the run.

I don't know how many teams can truly win a game once the opposing defense takes away their strength. At the end of the day, your 'bread and butter' players have to be effective.

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The scary thing about this statement is what happens next year without Herbert if Fuente and company stay? Will we have a good enough run game, or would we be forced to go more pass heavy? And what if the rumblings on here about Tre entering the portal are true? Next year could be a LOT worse.

I don't know how many teams can truly win a game once the opposing defense takes away their strength.

I think we are particularly poorly balanced for a top 25 offense though. Perhaps a better term than one-dimensional would be over-reliant on the run.

I would agree with this. I don't think we need to be a great passing team, but I think we need to (1) be efficient and (2) have a deep a threat. We are efficient (which is why SP+ loves us) but we do not have a deep threat (which is why we can't put teams away or be successful in the 2 min offense).

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I miss the times where this account was for memes and jokes now the jokes and info graphics just make me sad.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Please add Georgia Tech to the list. 0 for 3 against Paul Johnson, including the 49-28 blowout where GT went 0-1 passing.

No no no, Bud gets a pass for those games

๐Ÿ˜

King Alum of the House Hokie, the First of His Name, Khal of the Turkey Legs, The rightful Heir to the Big Board, the Unbanned, Breaker of Trolls and Father of Gritty

Fuente has now lost to every in-state FBS program, since 2018.

UVA is one thing (as hard as that is for us), but LU and ODU are totally unacceptable.

He had FIVE (5)-seasons to prove himself, and now we need a coaching change.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

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Romanes Eunt Domus

He had FIVE (5)-seasons to prove himself

And he has certainly proved himself....unfit

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

What all that's worse, is that for the past 3 seasons, he has acts like every year is a rebuild and that "we're still in the process of getting better."

You CAN'T have one good year, then be in a rebuilding phase for FOUR STRAIGHT YEARS, and then never even come close to addressing the fact that it might be largely due to his lack of recruiting.

It's time to get a coach with a sense of accountability, because as much as I think Fu is a good dude, he doesn't express very much accountability to the program, at least not publicly.

As much as we make fun of Manny Dรญaz, at least he went to the podium and said he needed to do better to meet the fanbase's expectations when Miami was flailing in his first year.

When Orgeron got blown out by Bama, he came to the press conference admitting that he needed to recruit better, and that that is where he would focus more resources.

He may have a plan for how to fix things behind the scenes, but I'm losing faith in his ability to do so, and his unwillingness to address why we are losing gives me no hope that he can.

It may very well be time to move on.

Portal is lit today, expect a few more than what's announced after Thanksgiving. Some are still on fence but VT goes into Clemson with A Hooker and Knox

Could get really ugly for the program... VT should pull an FSU and play the COVID card to skip the game ... maybe the rest of the games on the roster schedule until Whit can get a new coach in to stabilize the program. It's already kind of silly to make these kids play with masks.

Fuck FSU. VT isn't a clown college with a ton of AIDS.

Its better to play than to quit using COVID as an excuse.

FSU... probably.

So it's going to be officially a portal move and not just an opt out for the season? Fuente needs to be gone a week ago if that's the case. I understand if it's just opting out for the season as he shouldn't be able to control that, but having the rumored people go to the portal, this is 100% his fault.

Hopefully, Clemson seals the deal with thrashing what little chance Fuente has left as Head Ball Coach.

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

You're really rooting for a loss just to see Fuente go? WTF

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We are going to get curb stomped into the Stone Age regardless, might as well see the silver lining in letting Fuente go

What we do in life, echoes in eternity

Sometimes in order to move forward, you first have to take a step back.

Imagine if we somehow are competitive with Clemson, beat UVa, make it to a bowl game that is actually played as no win totals are required, and actually win it. The team is 6-6 having won their last 2 and maybe it is just enough to make Whit keep Fuente, Corn, and Shibest around another year. Most likely we get the same terrible recruiting, well above average portal exists, and sub-par performance on the field and it just delays the real pain 1 more year. I can understand why someone would rather we just take our lumps and medicine now.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

First of all, I think (no #sauces, just gut feeling) that the offensive staff will have to be replaced, regardless of what happens.

Second of all, at the end of the day, these kids are amateur athletes, who have battled through the most unpredictable college football season since WWII, under an absurd level of scrutiny. I cannot in good conscience root for their failure just because I want a state employee to be replaced.

Normally I think the 'you're not a true Hokie if...' litmus test is bullshit, but I'm willing to make an exception here - if you're actively rooting for our team (comprised of 85+ poorly compensated amateur athletes) to lose, under any circumstances, then you're not a true Hokie. Get the fuck out.

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Well, you are entitled to that opinion if you want, but as I said, I can understand why some might feel that it is better to get the pain over with now. Do you want the kids who remain to suffer through more of the slow bleed or get a fresh start? I can see both points and would not tell people in either camp to "get the fuck out" or claim that only true Hokies feel one way.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

If the kids are suffering they can opt out this season and keep their scholarship, and I will hold no ill will against them.

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By slow bleed I mean suffering through being on the team in 2021 with the current regime. Is it better for them to just be done with it now and have a chance to be in a better program in 2021 or continue to slowly drip downward? I do not have a strong feeling either way, but I can see both sides. Opting out for 2020 and coming back to the same situation in 2021 does not help someone like Hooker or Turner anymore than it helps the fan base. Which is why, among other reasons, I could not blame anyone for entering the transfer portal now. No, I am not hoping they do, but I can understand why they would. Just like I can understand why some people might say getting the acutely painful surgery this year and the difficult recovery in 2021 may be better than living with chronic pain for the next several years.

Now in fairness, Fuente and company may already be gone. Fuente and company could also stay and turn things around avoiding the need for major surgery/recovery and alleviating chronic pain all at once, but I think most of us are pretty skeptical at this point.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

if you're actively rooting for our team (comprised of 85+ poorly compensated amateur athletes) to lose, under any circumstances, then you're not a true Hokie. Get the fuck out.

I'll always root for my Hokies, ever since Shayne Graham kicked us into a national title in the Morgantown night.

But, I've always rooted for them knowing we come in and punch the opponent in the face, and not back down. Even down by 20+ against Miami we still battled under Beamer. That's the gut punch I feel for next week. Knowing we don't have that same attitude anymore. Others on here have called our program soft. It's unreal to think VT football as soft, but that's exactly what it is right now. Soft.

So yes, next week and the week after, I'll still watch and root for my alma mater, but it will feel, just so very different.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I think that's a very reasonable take, and I can't disagree with anything you said.

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Agree. Always want the win. I hope we beat the shit out of Clemson with reserve players. I hope we beat the shit out of UVA in any way possible. Coaches are lame ducks. They may be interviewing for their next job, but I want the Hokies to win.

That said, I am fearing that we could look really bad in the next two games.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K