We are obviously expecting some attrition in the coming days and weeks. Will try to keep a running list. To begin:
1. Elijah Bowick
#Hokies redshirt freshman WR Elijah Bowick has entered his name into the NCAA's transfer portal, per a source. Has not played during his time at Tech.— Mike Barber (@RTD_MikeBarber) November 25, 2020
2. Quincy Patterson
3. Darryle Simmons
Justin Fuente says QB Quincy Patterson is planning to enter the transfer portal. Said he got hit on the thumb last week at Pitt might not have been able to play anyway.Also says WR Darryle Simmons has decided to transfer. Said he might go the I-AA route. #Hokies— Andy Bitter (@AndyBitterVT) November 30, 2020
[MOD EDIT: Updating]
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Comments
Thanks for getting this started. I think it's a good idea to have an aggregated list (edit: in addition to individual threads, as per joe below)
that said, SUCKS about Bowick. really wish his career here had gotten off to a healthier start because i think he really could've been a difference maker
Really disappointed that he was suspended and didn't produce. They showcased him in the spring 2019 as an early enrollee because he clearly had some physical gifts that made him stand out. I was excited to see him play. Not getting on the field when the corps of receivers was so thin was a big red flag.
Hasn't he been injured most of his time on the team? I was really hopeful for him because he looked like a beast.
Yes, but nobody has ever said what the injuries have been. According to the announcement, he had been suspended for a violation of team rules.
Bowick s dad posted on TSL that he blew his knee out before Duke 2019
I believe he had some post surgery photos on Instagram as well - he was just starting to be himself physically.
"he tore his ACL and damaged his meniscus while redshirting last season. He was only cleared to return to football activities last month..."
Exactly. The decision to leave seems premature at best given that context, but I don't know the whole story either.
Normally I think the standard operating procedure is to create a new thread each time, but if the rumors are true.... we don't have time to start that many threads.
Bowick wasn't really on my radar as a transfer guy but I also didn't know he was suspended so that really sucks.
I'm also in favor of a thread for each, at least the more prevalent ones when they happen because it's a different discussion for each.
Only thing is, if the rumors we are hearing are true, this could become a really lengthy thread.
Best wishes to them, wherever they end up next
Current rumor mill: more wide receivers, Mitchell, Tre, multiple QBs, some NFL opt outs as well
I have not heard anything regarding defensive players. Take that how you wish.
would Tre and Mitchell be NFL opt outs?
Both are wait and see who ends up at VT or transfer.
well at least the positive of this is that they're willing to hear out the new coach before making a decision
Disappointed in Mitchell not wanting to play uva.
It's Fickell for me to believe VT will get the right coach. Jamey they could close the deal on an old school style coach, or make a Leopold of faith.
You sound like a real Elliot when you do this.
what a shane
Why do you guys Carroll so much about who is our next coach?
Franklin, my dear, I don't give a damn who it is as long as the hire brings back respect to a venable position.
Fleck this. I have no clue what you guys are talking about. Also, Happy Thanksgiving, whether it is Frost(y) or warm where you live. Make sure you Lovie on your families.
Are you guys still Mullen over who the next coach will be?
I just don't want it to be a harbaugh hire
(Lol this one doesn't even have to be a pun)
I'm done. There's nothing Leftwich to care about.
It can't just be any ole Tomlin, Dickey or Heupel for the Vicktory. I'll be Beaming when we Clawson our way back to the top.
Groh up, y'all.
I am going to drink a few Buds and Ponder this.
You are going to Madden me if you keep this up. Stop with all of these shanahan-agans. Let's just take a time(cop)-out and freeze this for a while.
Let's just say there's a Chancellor that the grass is Green-er or more Flower-ly on the other side, maybe even a Grove over there too, where the King and the Royal-s live. We would all be Freeman if we took that route. I would hate to Teller you that we should Settle for less. Nevertheless, we should keep out a Keene eye, as it is important that we can a-Ford the next coach as well. We don't want to have to just Chuck a selection out there that doesn't work and all of the sudden have to go back to asking our Dadi what to do next. Let's just make our list Fuller and Fuller and Fuller and Fuller. I'm just so Tyrod of this taking so long; it's looking Grimm. The good days seem Worilds away now. I'm going to go Frye some bacon and cook up a Bird to eat now.
Did you look into your cristobal or something
Yes, I did. The light was Beamer-ing out of it.
Mitchell wouldn't go pro? I assumed he was going pro regardless.
Wow I would have thought Mitchell was draftable
Geez, are we going to be able to field a team for the last two games? Unreal.
Can't wait until we beat UVA on a Knox Kadum wheel route to Tahj Gary.
This would be a very VT thing to happen.
At this point, I'd just lie (well, partial truth) saying covid cases are too much of a problem and claim we can't play them. Dabo can whine all he wants
Yeah, cauz nothing says "I don't want our program to be considered soft" quite like bending the truth to avoid playing a tough game.... /s
It's like Fu was digging his own grave and got tired so the players are picking up shovels and saying "here, we'll help!"
can't see any way Fu isn't fired after this impending exodus
Would you want to risk getting hurt playing for a lame duck staff that considered this a throwaway year?
Of course not. Can't blame em one bit.
Do you think Whit does the equivalent of an exit interview for guys who transfer? It would be dangerous if he just let Fu handle it and took his word for the reasons.
I think if 5 or more promising guys put their names in the portal, Whit doesn't even need to do an exit interview to understand what's going on. Hell, 2 or more of our more promising guys (like Tre, Mitchell, and or Patterson) should tell him what he needs to know.
Darrisaw should be announced soon
As an opt out or transfer? Seems like he's an opt out, get ready for NFL candidate.
This was my thought too
Opt out NFL like you said
He has nothing left to prove with the way he's played this year. I hope he goes in the first round to Dallas or a non-NFC East team
No Dallas, pls.
Fine, we'll take Farley instead
I've seen multiple mocks with Farley and Darrisaw going in the 1st.... gotta be good for VT...
He needs to go get healthy and get his money.
FYI he says that's not true:
Sure sounds like the locker room has quit on this staff for the second time.
Maybe we can just have Sports Illustrated come in a write another article about us. /s
It starts now /s
It start snow
It's tart snow
It's tarts now
It's tarts now....an Englishman approves!
I thought a storm was brewing too. Didn't realize it was a giant sh*t storm.
Not decent. Think I will cry like bubbles 🥺
The solution is obviously to get rid of beef patties, for turkey burgers. /s
Fans have opted out on the coaching staff so why not the players? Let the coaches take the field and risk their healthy and bodies
Wonder how Fuente will spin all of these opt outs/transfer portal entries....
Uhm, he can't control the perceptions of other players
Covid
Winner, winner, turkey dinner
As the program free fall seems to continue, I think we still have a bit to go to rock bottom. Not sure of the progression, but I think it's shit show and then dumpster fire, before rock bottom. After hovering in the shit show neighborhood, we may now be descending towards dumpster fire. Time will tell. Dec. 16, #MaketheMove.
Probably worth mentioning with things like the transfer portal and opt outs that these guys can change their minds, possibly more than once. So an opt out, or likely portal entry may flip at the last second.
Just a reminder that this is likely a very emotional and fluid situation.
But didn't Fuente say that players who enter their names in the transfer portal are not welcomed back?
Link
The quote in the article very clearly says "case by case basis". Not a program policy
So....do we have the buyout money lined up?
I just really want to know from all the people who supported this staff the last year or two, was it worth waiting it out?
Firing fuente before this year would have been premature. That is not to say that fuente should have made other changes.
The smug "I told you so"s are the second worst part of this whole thing, after the all the losing.
I did not understand when people who wanted to cut bait two years ago. I do not understand how speaking with the benefit of hindsight changes anything.
There is a universe where the circumstances outside of this staff's control are different, and this season is very different as a result. That being said, it's the inability to adapt that has proven to be the sticking point with the majority of the fan base.
Yes.
Well this I don't get
The question is BS as worded because it is purely based on hindsight. Was it worth it? The better question is was the decision to not fire Fuente after three years, one of which we were in the ACC championship, the right one? Yes it was. The rest is hindsight and a bullshit I told you so argument.
Yeah it was a dumb question, just couldn't tell whether you thought the past two seasons were worth it or not
Hi there! I supported Fuente, tentatively, for the last two years. I thought it was too early to pull the plug after 2018 but I'm on record back then saying that Fuente was making a mistake by keeping Cornelson on staff. I thought then that the offense had better get really good in a hurry to justify no staff changes. I doubted if this staff could succeed but still thought it was too early. After 2019 I was much less enthused by Fuente and his staff but with some new blood coming in I was interested to see what would change and remained cautiously optimistic that the offense was still en route. (though, I had my doubts because, Corn). 2020 was the last true litmus test for me and the staff has failed quite miserably.
Am I happy with where we are now? No. Was it worth it? Hard to tell. I still think firing him before this year would have been premature. But I will be livid if he is employed beyond Christmas.
Do you feel better for being right? Because I had suspicions this is where we were headed but I was willing to give Fuente some more time to prove me wrong. He didn't. I don't feel great about it. But it's time to move on and start over. That's the nature of college football.
Go Hokies!
For me it was a slow loss of faith in him over the last three years. The great offseason roster purge in 2018 was alarming, but I figured it was just an inevitable culture change as the staff molded the program toward their vision. Then the ODU loss and miserable 2018 season. The ODU loss was inexcusable, but overall I knew the roster was young and we had better days ahead. 2019's near collapse early on made me start having serious doubts about Fu, and I really questioned if he was going to truly be "the guy" after that and ever since. I think after how poorly the 2020 recruiting class finished, and then finally losing all of the stars in the 2021 class earlier this year and having little to no traction with any 4 stars was the last straw for me. I figured we would see a decent team and some improvement on O this year with our OL recruiting and experienced roster, but I knew long-term Fu would not be the answer here with that level of recruiting. Now it appears the wheels have completely come off the program. It was a slow decline with a lot of warning signs along the way for me, but I do think firing him before this year would have been premature. Unfortunately now, that time has come.
I do remember the Baylor flirtation earlier this year, and as sad as it is to say, when we thought he was leaving, that was the most excited I have been about the future of the program until now.
VPIhokieME - this is exactly how I felt too. Did not have a lot of confidence but felt like he had to be given time. And the most bizarre part was, when we were 3-1, I probably had more confidence in Fuente than I had since early on in year 2. Just amazing how everything has totally fallen apart,
The people who never supported him were calling for a divorce while drinking the bride and grooms beer at the wedding reception.
Even if you were right, do you want to be that asshole?
There is probably a better than 50% chance that we will someday be in the same situation with the next guy. We could immediately start calling for his head and have a great chance of being right. Or, as I prefer, we could not be dicks.
Whomever we bring in, it is going to take a while to rebuild at this point. We will need to be patient. However, if we bring in the right person who checks all the boxes (recruiter, dynamic personality, great staff around him, experience at big programs) I will gladly increase my Hokie Club donation now. We need to back the new guy and get things going back in the right direction. The fan base needs hope, and then we need to do our part.
Some will be patient and some won't, just like Fuente. The only constant in sports is fans being dickheads.
And I know some people will hate to hear, but we have to give the next person time too. Best practical case scenario*, Fuente is gone before the end of the year and we have an energizing hire that can keep most of the players here for 2021. Team then might be okay in 2021. Then you have to give them at least 2 more years to bring in their guys and get them into the program to try and replace the players who have left as the 2019 and 2020 recruiting classes were so disappointing. Afraid we could easily be looking at 2023 before we can hope to be good in the W-L column. Next couple of years, just need to see things like much better recruiting, effort and chemistry to see the the new regime's program has promise, but we can't get bent out of shape over losing records in the short-term if real progress is being made.
* I don't consider VT being able to hire someone like Dabo or Nick who brings several 4-5 star recruits with him in 2020 to be practical, so 2021 is the first year we can see much better recruiting and those guys won't be ready to have much impact until 2023. Maybe a few true freshmen could, but that is a real tall order.
I agree we will certainly be in this situation for a while, but at least the next guy will have an excuse because of this hole Fuente dug us. As long as they don't make excuses, are an exciting personality, and show that they are making progress or at least have some semblance of a plan, I can't fault them. Fuente was handed more talent than he has been able to bring in, squandered it, made excuses throwing players under the bus, shut the fans and former players out, apparently has to cull the locker room every year, publicly tried to get another job, and still refuses to make changes. Everyone on TKP finally wants to get rid of him because of how bold his "fuck off, I know best" attitude while losing has become recently.
Yes. Based on the available information at the time of the decision, it was the correct move.
A lot of people are talking about hindsight, but even with hindsight I'm glad we kept him the last 2 seasons. At least when our next coach takes over it'll hopefully be in a (mostly) post covid environment. Imagine what our program would feel like if we fired Fuente after only 3 seasons and our new coach was struggling due to covid and the usual attrition from changing regimes? It would be absolutely miserable.
71 comments in on one announcement, 1000's more to go at this rate. Get the Transfer Portal #2 and #3 warmed up. Fuente might need them on the field at this rate.
Is there any precedent for a team simply quiting before the season is complete? I worry we are headed down that route and it would be a bad bad look. Even worse that we have Clemson next and Dabo has already made a stiink about the FSU game so it would surely make national news.
It will take some convincing by Whit and Co. to get these guys committed for the next 2.5 weeks.
As bad as a lot of the rumors are, I'm pretty confident we aren't anywhere near that situation. Some people will opt out, not all will wait until after the season. However, there's too many kids who've trained their whole lives to play college football for an 85+ man roster to quit. We'll field a team. I don't envy the people in charge of keeping them focused on the (probably shit) game plan during this stretch though.
Not really but this year we already are seeing a bunch of NFL draft opt outs as teams lose games or coaches are let go. Expect to see a lot more after this week too. Wisconsin just lost its chance to play in the BIG championship for example. A lot of teams will be playing far down the depth chart.
I know the covid year is unique in that opt outs are given as a free pass. However, I have noticed that with each passing year, players become more focused on making business decisions with their bodies versus playing for the team. I can't fault them. The decisions are logical and I get it. But, it does affect the game. It becomes harder to feel like a fan is pulling for something special when the players aren't. It is also hard for average teams to develop when they are depending on senior talent that instead takes a shot at a late round draft pick. Anyway, rant over. I get it and ain't mad.
[REMOVED]
[Mod Edit: It's against the CG to post info from behind another site's paywall. I realize this is a time when there will be a lot of inside info going around on various paysites like 247, but let's make sure that if we are posting info that it is our own and not taken from behind a paywall. Thanks everyone.]
It's happening isn't it
If that is true, I am very sad.
For what it's worth, that post isn't behind a paywall.
I saw you tweet about it afterwards which made me think it was free, but they use a weird filter over there that's like a paywall with holes in it, plus sometimes they make threads visible to all, etc. It's hard to keep up with.
In the future if anyone posts something you pulled from Evan/CZY over there, post the link as well so it's clear that it's free.
https://247sports.com/college/virginia-tech/board/59428/Contents/portal-...
Not a shocker at all. I'm honestly surprised he stuck it out this long (and I commend him for it). He was a highly touted recruit and this staff has utterly failed him. He's got a lot of raw talent but I don't think this staff has developed him one bit since he set foot on campus.
I'd love it if he would at least hear out the new coaching staff (*fingers crossed*) when they are brought in, but either way, I wish him nothing but the best.
Personally out of all the players on the team, I feel the worst for Q. Patterson. The staff promised to make him the next Paxton Lynch and hyped him up as the future of the program, and failed to do so. It's bewildering to me that this staff, led by a supposed QB-whisperer, failed to develop a Trent Dilfer Elite 11 camp participant into Tech's next greatest phenom. I've always been on his hype train and will support him wherever he chooses to go. He deserves a program that will actually spend quality time on him.
Did the coaches promise to do that, or did the fanbase just expect that after Trent Dilfer's comments?
Everyone (who was remotely clued in to QP's high school football situation) knew he was a huge project, and drafted off potential. Without any inside info, I don't know how this is an issue of the staff? Every QB who's played at multiple schools (JJ, RW, JE) has peaked under Fuente. I don't see any evidence that the staff did QP wrong.
Based on what ??? I'm not saying the staff did a great job here, but these "promises" you speak of sound made up based on media comments.
FYI - HS coaches always tell kids positive things based on potential - it's not a promise, it's a possibility based on the outcomes of hard-work, situation, coaching etc.
I love QP but Trent Dilfer doesn't know shit.
Not saying he's a savant, but to be fair to Dilfer I'm pretty sure he was hyping QP's potential. Not necessarily his ability coming into college.
How do we know they failed him? He came in raw as hell and could barely throw the ball. His passing has improved a lot in just a year, but unfortunately for him he's sitting behind an older player who's currently the better option
Agreed. If he transfers I think it's likely he goes G5 or FCS. Love the kid, but I think this is simple. He wants to play and he isn't going to play on the current trajectory.
This is the risk-reward of taking projects at QB.
With that said, I do wish the kid would stay and play it out as he still has 3 years of eligibility left. He could easily improve a lot, considering this year was a difficult year to progress at Qb without spring and a fall camp that wasn't ideal to say the last. This isn't an excuse, just stating the facts.
I don't think you can say the staff failed him. Against Pitt, he threw a 10 yd screen pass into the dirt. This is his third season in the program. If you are throwing screen passes into the dirt, that is all on you. Corn called a nice, easy pass for him, and he threw it in the dirt. His fault, not the coaches.
It wasn't behind a paywall. It was a free post. I'm not a member of 247 so I can't see VIP posts.
Post a link
always best to include a link
So what does he not know?
That he is opting out.
oh wow as a potential first rounder, I would probably opt out if I was in his shoes, but if he stays thats great!
Hell yeah! #BeatClemson
Everybody posting Darrisaw tweets, he might not "opt out" as he's already banged up and he might just stay on the team for optics. This isn't guaranteeing he will play again. He should be gone to the draft after this year anyway. I could be wrong, but I think it would be a smart decision for him
So even if you are wrong you are right? If he stays it's because of "optics" - do you know this or just floating it to serve your perspective.
I don't subscribe to selling out the kid's point of view for something speculative.
109comments on a thread with one portal entry that was also on suspension from the team?Sorry, 110. Please just stop piling on with hopeful bad news..
QP also
Citation? From Quincy, not your rumor mill would help our trust in your statement
I don't particularly care if you "trust in my statement." You can take it or leave it, it's up to you.
Wow! That sounds super confident! Why did I ever doubt your knowledge?
OK. This place has turned miserable over the last two seasons. I think I'm done here, you all have fun.
Chose a great hill to die on, huh?
Not dead. Not going anywhere and I help pay for this site unlike some. Thanks for piling on.
I remain as I came, more positive and factual than rumor and negative and I'm ok with that. Go Hokies!
People share the information that they hear when they hear it. Most people like to get information as early as possible for a variety of reasons. By the time Quincy posts something himself, everyone will know.
There is no requirement on TKP, or any other message board that I am aware of, where information cannot be shared until the person themselves announces it. If you don't want to believe it, or are the kind of person who just wants to wait until you hear it directly from the player/coach in question then that's okay, but there's no need to attack another person for sharing information or even just wanting others to share their information before it breaks to everyone.
Agreed that people say what they know at the time but "QP also" seems incomplete and asking for a source is not an attack.
This was the part that was more of an attack...
I understand the sentiment of not wanting people floating rumors, but realistically if you don't like this kind of thread it's best to just not open it. Instead of making a comment about how many useless comments there are in this thread, which of course leads to more useless comments that don't have much to do with any actual news or discussion of transfers/opt outs.
So much like what happens sometimes in recruiting threads, when you complain about the noise in the recruiting thread you inadvertently create even more noise.
There's no requirement to have a quote directly from the player in order to post anything, don't be ridiculous.
Hokie Central posted today he left for about 5 minutes, before it was deleted.
This one wouldn't surprise me. Didn't QP enter his name last year only to be talked out of transferring by Fuente? Or am I mis-remembering?
That was hooker
Ah, right - thanks for the correction.
this would not be surprising if he did though. people would be panicking if he did but is it really that surprising? I mean he's entering his rs-sophmore/junior year and is still looking at sitting then. It's not like he's lighting it up when he comes in.
When starters transfer is something, when backups who have little playing time i'm not shocked. Especially if they feel they can play somewhere else. You don't join a program to sit, unless you're at bama, you join to play. If you can't play there then you try and go somewhere else and play.
Thank you! Lets put some energy toward positive outcomes. Looks like Darrisaw is sticking around and we should have most of the defense back for Clemson. I think we see them play hard and aggressive, hopefully can keep this game close going into the 2nd half.
A lot of rumors about Tre, but this just showed up:
#NewProfilePic pic.twitter.com/7zB5HJzwrV— Tré Turner (@tre11turner) November 29, 2020 " target="_blank">
Maybe there was some more truth to some rumors than others, maybe it's just that the players were as emotional as we were after Pittsburgh. Either way, I don't want these guys to lose, I don't want them to leave, and I don't want to see them check out mentally. I love these guys, even the ones that end up leaving. I just want to see them happy, and winning again - and I get that means a coaching change, and I get that means some of these guys will invariably end up leaving. Hokies are forever (except for a very small handful who aren't).
My sentiments exactly. I am pulling for every one of these players today, tomorrow and the future. Each of these players choose VT at some point and I hope we can do what is right by them as coaches, administration, fellow students, alumni and fans.
Oh look a clip from when he was actually funny (comedic value of the jokes alone, politics aside)
Almost every comedian is doomed to become a caricature of their earlier, funnier selves.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. Not funny at all.
I still think he's funny, personally, but yes, his character of a "well-intentioned, poorly informed, high-status idiot" (his own words) caricature of political pundits, while on the Colbert Report was pretty genius.
For those who prefer the official channels, straight from Fuente's mouth about QP and Darryle Simmons.
Godspeed Quincy! Go be great.
Good luck Big Quincy. Thanks for the memories.
I pray that he ends up at Oregon or any Big 12 school. Good news is that since he won't be at VT, he will be immediately eligible to play
Didn't NCAA pass one free transfer for everyone recently? Since this year didn't count towards eligibility and free transfer he has a lot of options.
Probably. Was mainly being bitter about everyone getting eligibility except for players coming to VT.
everyone except those coming to VT
Given he's from Chicago, how intelligent he is, and (I think) still interested in engineering, Northwestern seems like the obvious destination.
Andrew Alix summed up my thoughts pretty well on QP:
Loved QP as a human being but he never really developed into a real quarterback. When "student body left" and "student body right" are the lynchpins of your QP-designed gameplan three years in, that's a real problem. I don't know if I should pin this on QP or on CornFu but it's clear that new coaches would bode well for him.
Which seems to tell a lot about our "QB guru" coach
If he was ever going to be what he was rumored to be, the coaching would not have held him so far back that he can't complete simple timing patterns. I honestly think he either needs to embrace his role as a running qb in a triple option offense or consider changing positions.
I honestly think our coaches cannot develop any QBs. in the NFL, Paxton Lynch was noted quickly as being unable to read a D and make more than 1 read.
This QB whisper crap about FU and Corn has been disproven over and over again. What QB have they not held back ?
Well, there isn't really any way to prove it because the QBs haven't played for other coaches. Except JJ and I wouldn't say that he improved at Maryland. I think it's fair to question Fuente's coaching, but we can't just say "QP would have been great with different coaches!!" No evidence to prove that.
So, there is no way to prove that the crap in the toilet stinks unless you smell it? Okay...
Evans, Jackson, Willis, HH, and QP; improvement for all was basically negligible. Whether poor talent/evaluation and/or coaching, one would expect, after three years in some cases, for these guys to more than 10% better.
Well, I mean, yeah. You can't prove it smells unless you measure it. That's definitely true.
I've dropped some that I knew was gonna smell horrific wellll before it ever hit my nose.
I'm of the opinion that Fuente is absolutely no guru and I'm cautiously optimistic for some new coaches, but even if they had developed him it seems likely that HH would have also come along at the same rate and left QP in a similar boat.
He was a quarterback with a lot of potential, who was unfortunately a year behind another quarterback with a lot of potential. Was going to be hard to get real playing time if he didn't beat out Hooker in a preseason competition which with one less year under his belt wasn't likely.
Best of luck to QP and the other transfers leaving VT. "New coaches would bode well for him". And new coaches would bode well for the VT program, as well. Dec. 16, step up please Whit.
I hope QP lands somewhere that can develop him, has all the physical tools you would want for a quarterback.
Anyone heard anything on Holston? Twitter rumblings
I mean he deleted his twitter account so that might have been it😂
It's back
He retweeted this reply to his "peace"
I hope not. I am excited to see him in an expanded role.
Not surprised some RB's are leaving because we know Blackshear will be back and King should be improved. I have heard some good stuff about Jordan Brunson, anybody hearing similar things?
Intriguing tweet by Blackshear "I'm right after you" to Brock Hoffman saying he'll be announcing something tomorrow
Didn't see TJ Jackson mentioned
They're getting a good one. Just no room at the inn re playing time at VT.
I hope he balls out. Best of luck, big'un
He is one XXXXL sized man.
And he played basketball...one of his high school highlights:
Talk about bringing down the house.
He came back from Covid pushing 400 LBs. Hope for his sake he gets his weight under control if nothing else at Ohio.
Hoffman returning next year
This is all so goofy. I'm sorry, but all these edits for players coming back, just can't get with it.
It's 800% better than a portal transfer announcement. Welcome back Brock!
There doesn't need to be an announcement for this at all.
Counterpoint: they can announce whatever the hell they want. Lighten up Francis
He isn't the only player and we aren't the only school doing this. For players who are taking the extra year plenty of them are doing the same kind of announcements.
To me it seems like it is a concerted effort by the program to sustain excitement about returning contributors. Especially given that we were told to expect attrition -- we've seen that at key position groups (qb and guard), but we've seen way more from players announcing that they'll be back which seems to dilute the message of "this program is hemorrhaging talent"
This is 100% what they're a doing. A little PR work, color me shocked.
They are 18-23 year olds, I'm happy with whatever makes them happy.
Geese Louise, do you ever say anything supportive? Every thread you're bashing the staff (some of it is warranted), but about graphics!? Come on Debbie quit being a downer and enjoy that Brock is returning.
If you knew some inside stuff you wouldn't be that excited for Hoffman returning😐
Care to expand upon that idea, or are we just going to make wild accusations?
Yeah I can expand a little bit. So you know a couple of oline transfer from our team that were highly ranked outta high school? Well I heard Hoffman and his parents bully one of them and their parents parents and that made him transfer and the other olineman is friends with that olineman so he transfered as well
I just have a really hard time believing this scenario with the current climate we are in there is no way someone bulling someone else off the team wouldn't have made it into the news if it had legs, nor would Hoffman be on the team.
If you look at daddy Hoffman Twitter account you can find some evidence
I don't have receipts, but the Twitter battle between the parents I believe involved actually tagging the students athletes that were involved and included accusations regarding playing time complaints?
Yes
Crazy if true. I appreciate you responding
The parents twitter beef is relatively well known. I would take the bullying charge with a grain of salt. Never going to get the full context on that charge.
More turkey bacon will cure hurt feelings.
cure hurt feelings.
Heh
A shame. Sounds like coaches had to have been aware. They should have booted Hoffman and kept the 2 younger, higher upside prospects over the guy with 1 year of eligibility left. Just my opinion based on what is laid out in front of me. I have no inside info.
Former Kansas grad transfer Evan Fairs to the portal. Loss of depth isn't great but despite some decent downfield blocking he only had two catches for 18 yards all season last year.
Not surprised. Neither Transfer WR last year seemed to have much of a role.
5 total catches between them.
Would not be surprised to see Hodge headed elsewhere too.
I agree, I think Hodge needs a changa scenery.
He needs a QB that will look his way and throw him the ball.
Good blocker. As I noted when I reviewed him, I didn't see the ability to get separation on film that I would expect for a volume contributor at WR. I hope he finds a place where he can finish his career strong, and his effort as a blocker was excellent.
Dallan Wright, line one.
Zion DeBose has entered the portal as a Graduate Transfer, with (I guess) two years of eligibility remaining. Doesn't seem too surprising after opting out mid-season last year. I honestly thought this had already happened but today is official confirmation.
Hope he finds some success elsewhere, maybe App State. All the best and glad he got his degree.
Thanks for your time Zion. Hope you find a spot on a team and success (as long as it not against us). Maybe this is a transfer we can use to pick up another OL!
Was he a walk on? Not a name I remember seeing.
PWO yep.
Terius Wheatley to the portal. Probably not the only RB I would expect but spring attrition is starting
I think Fuente is having one-on-ones right now with every player on the team letting them know where they stand - I would expect today and next week to have a lot of portal action.
Actually might be a good thing.
Absolutely - there are some position groups where we need to offload some guys (e.g. RB) to help balance out the roster. Sucks but it's the reality of our roster management situation.
Agreed. I think it's an annual issue for all coaches now (whether we ultimately like it or not) and the coaching staff's future success will be in part (maybe big part) determined about how they manage the transfer/attrition process annually.
Not just this coaching staff. EVERY coaching staff.
And I don't think those in the media and the peanut gallery who championed the portal as beneficial to the athletes realized how much there was another edge to that sword. The portal is just making it more of a business - not less - and is exposing the true cutthroat reality of college sports.
Can't play in the ACC.. IIWII
Any chance we can bring in Wells, the JMU receiver, this fall? He went 7 catches for 143 yards and 2 TDs today in the FCS playoffs. Looks like an absolute stud and would be a plus given the state of our WR depth. Currently an r-Freshman, RVA kid, Highland Springs / FUMA alum.
He'd get more PT at JMU. Just ask Evan Fairs or Changa Hodge
Receiving yards and YAC are overrated for WRs, how is he with a jet sweep?
My man asking the real questions here.
It's all about the right fit.
Just curious - If QP said he wanted to come back to Virginia Tech, would you guys be OK with that?
If he feels that is the best decision for him, yes.
Definitely, sometimes they realize the grass isn't exactly greener on that side of the fence.
Yes but I wouldn't expect him to be a starter.
I really like him and wish him the best, but isn't that like taking back an ex? How often does that work well in the long term? They broke up with you for a reason. However, if he is a Hokie again, he'll have my full support.
Thinking big picture in terms of the roster, no. He was here for three years and didn't develop into much more than a short-yardage running option. Whether that's on the staff for not developing him, himself, or some combination of the two, I would want the scholarship open.
Thinking short-term for this year only and looking at QB depth, it wouldn't be a bad idea at all. BB won't last a full season running him as much as we will try to. It would be good to have an experienced backup/change of pace option.
He will forever be a hero in my mind for the 6 OT UNC game
wait, is he back in the portal?
Nope, but his QB teammate Logan Graetz is
https://www.inforum.com/bison-media-zone/mens-sports/football/7013617-Bi...
Reading the article it sounds like Graetz was low man (no PT) behind a true freshman with QP waiting in the wings. Oh, and another highly touted freshman coming in the fall. Can't blame the kid one bit, but it just sounds like less competition for QP in the fall, and looking through Trey Lance's stats this offense seems like a perfect fit for QP to thrive. While I would love to have him back at VT, I'm more excited for him being where he's at now.
Bring qp back, by all means. I am afraid that we will need some depth before the year is over the way we use qbs. He was a very good back up
Looks like Tyree Saunders has put his name in the transfer portal.
247 link
I would expect to see more - I believe coaches had sit downs with all the players this past week to let them know where they stand.
I know there was a lot of enthusiasm about Saunders because he was so active recruiting other players on social media. But, his film was underwhelming and his route running was labored. With how much Dwaine Lofton and Jaylen Jones were discussed in what little came out about spring practice, and given that Dallan Wright had much better film than Saunders coming out of high school, it is safe to assume that Saunders had tumbled down the depth chart.
I thought I had heard there were some issues with buying in, effort, etc. that didn't do him any favors last year. Considering we still have DJ Sims and Christian Moss to enroll this summer, I'm not too surprised by this. It sucks because he was an awesome presence online, but I'd rather see him make a presence on the field more.
Watching him play down here in FL he lit up the field. Not sure about the tape but I was a fan when he signed.
So a recruiting miss?
Is it bad that I honestly don't really know much about any of these players? Just a few years ago I researched and knew a good bit about nearly every incoming recruit in each class. Now I can't even keep up with who is who with the attrition and lack of information.
Wasn't he supposed to be moved to DB anyway?
That was Lakeem Rudolph, who did move to safety and might now be a linebacker.
Saunders was a little bit of a late bloomer in terms of focus and work ethic. By the time he got his shit together, Loften and Jones (and possibly Wright) had passed him on the depth chart. He would need a ridiculous summer to close the gap and see the field this fall. Dug himself a hole at the beginning of the year that he didn't want to attempt to get out of.
This is more of an indication of how well Loften/Jones are doing behind the scenes than "misevaluating Saunders." This is a very similar situation to Ellis transferring to UMD because of how well Tavyion was doing. Wish the kid the best, he's a FL native so I'm sure he'll land on his feet at a UCF-type program. Seems like a good kid, wished it worked out for him here at VT but that's the nature of how college football works today.
Damn. How many times you going to edit this post?
Can't help myself, haha.
So when does this Fuente Depth Chart Voodoo where every player that leaves was passed by a better one translate into wins? Beating Wake? When do we see this phenomenon on the field?
We get it. Everything is an indictment of Fuente.
Who in your opinion is responsible for developing the WR's that he recruits? The tooth fairy? 8 of the 12 HS guys has left before making any contributions. Who's "fault" is that? Mine?
I agree with DC on this. Why can't VT keep more WRs in the VT program? This is a legit question. Supposedly, when Fuente/Corn arrived 5 yrs ago they planned to have 6-8 WR play each season, do you remember that? Since they arrived, we've only had 2-3 WRs play majority snaps each season (and only a few more due to starting WR injuries), and only a few backups end up with 1-5 catches per season. So at this point after 5 years of installing/running the Fuente/Corn offense - can anyone explain why VT can't we keep WRs on the roster? Again, this is a legit question that goes to the root of Fuente/Corn offense, recruiting misses, poor communication with players, or who knows? Regardless, it's lame. Having R-F and Soph WRs leave early every season only to be replaced by supposedly better T-F is not indicative of a well run program, and don't give me any portal excuses. If I am a F, R-F, or S and I am growing as a player, getting better each year, and see increased playing opportunities on the field every year - then I'm not leaving. But if Fuente/Corn just tell these R-F,S to leave because they'll never see the field, while Fuente/Corn pray the next group will be decent....it's just lame.
It's not that DC is wrong. A lot of people agree that he's right.
It's that he keeps jumping in everyone's face to chirp about it. He throws out straw men like "oh, just trust Fuente?" in response to posters who haven't defended Fuente in years.
Did anyone, at any time, assert that this wasn't bad? There's no argument, but he keeps popping up ranting as though there is.
It's like someone constantly interrupting to remind you that backing the mujahedeen in the 80s didn't work out for us in 2001. Everyone's agreed for a long time already, please stop belaboring the point as if anyone is arguing. It's tiring.
Jafar is an awful coach so that might be why
and who is responsible for hiring him????????????????????? the excuses and blame shifting have got to stop!!!!!!!!
(lol)
No, clearly if Whit could have fired Fuente last December, we wouldn't have this problem. But there was a pandemic going on and bad optics and such - I blame China.
Fuente's biggest win is WVU on a neutral field. He is 19-21 in his last 40 games against the P5. Whit gave him a ringing endorsement. Lower your expectations.
I agree with you. However, of all the players that ultimately signed, he may be the one I am least concerned about losing. I liked Pinckney and Bowick much more.
They need to close on their initial guys- they have nailed some evals (VT seemed to be the first P5 that was all in on Pitts, for example, and we saw how that turned out.) But, not being able to convince those hits that Blacksburg and this staff is the best place for those players to meet their personal life goals (whether it is going to the next level, the college experience, or a great education), is a huge problem, even more than the management of the team on game day.
not everything, but VT's W-L record is an indictment of Fuente...and there's no reply to that...unless you're UNCheat and prefer to blame losses on the rain.
And now I have a new image for some of the VT coaching staff stuck in my head
Didn't we just beat wake in 2019? When they were ranked? I had to double check our record against them because i assumed we were on a 10 game losing streak.
Speaking of Ellis - he played in 4 games and caught 1 pass for 7 yards last year - Per UMD roster
Right so with limited scholarships and not a host of 4 and 5 star players lining up, we offer a kid that can't play in the P5, can't develop him, he leaves and we have wasted time and a scholly. Perhaps we should evaluate better?
I'm confused about Ellis - is he a four-star bust that we should have worked harder to keep, another P5 kid we couldn't develop, or a G5 kid shouldn't have signed in the first place?
Scouting and evaluating isn't perfect - not everyone pans out, and that's true for literally every coach and program. There has to be a middle ground between "not thrilled with recent recruiting" and "Fuente sucks, burn it to the ground."
The middle ground is 8 out of 12... that is a terrible hit rate, no matter the coach, program, etc. It's not a 1 year anomaly, and "trust fuente" is cool until he loses to Wake and Liberty and is 19-21 in his last 40 against the p5. So either he can't scout, or can't develop... because what he is doing is not translating into wins or keeping his recruits around past their soph year.
You can expect 1/3 starters, 1/3 contributors, 1/3 busts. The middle third are leaving and the top third haven't been great.
Decent amount of the top 1/3 is leaving too. Kumah was good as hell, Hezekiah was definitely good enough to start and play big minutes even if he wasn't, then of course Nester and Hudson (ugh).
Hooker, Hazelton, Cunningham, Hill, etc
With all due respect Cunningham wasn't a huge loss. TD to catch ratio was nice and all but we had Dalton Keene and Mitchell up next.
Would've been great to have Hill on the defense, especially with the youth at DE, but let's be honest if the rumors were anywhere close to being true we don't need him.
Trust me, I am due no amount of respect
I guess my problem is that you always seem to circle back to blame the person you are most angry with but never seem to acknowledge that there are tons of other factors. Evaluating and developing is not some binary on/off switch. People get hurt (Simmons), people have family problems (Grimsley), people have issuing buying in (Bowick, Saunders), people leave early and still don't develop (Ellis), people don't develop and get passed up (Patterson, Savoy) and others just don't want to keep playing here (Kumah, Hazelton).
At some point, you have to acknowledge that the biology of players, their work ethic, and sometimes their luck has a factor too. And that can't be learned from watching tape of teenagers playing against teenagers in high school.
It's all about expectations. If VT football's expectation is to accept losses to liberty and never winning the coastal - you are right- shit happens, recruits leave in droves, we have no depth...but losing to Duke is cool, so don't blame the coach. That's fine. But my expectations are higher- So when the WR is a mess - for a myriad of reasons and the head coach can't fix it, I blame him because I think VT should win the coastal more than once every 5 years. It's all about expectations.
Another way to word this - Virginia Tech lost to a ranked opponent led by a QB who is projected to be a mid-first-round pick in the 2022 draft after losing our best player in the opening kickoff.
We get that Virginia Tech isn't supposed to lose to Liberty. But 2020 Liberty ≠ 2010 JMU ≠ 2018 ODU. Move on man.
Another way to word this. Liberty just has too much talent for VT to compete with. Liberty was ranked. VT can't compete - with Liberty. Like I said, all about expectations
What are you talking about dude? Did we have "too much talent" for Ohio State to compete with us when we beat them in 2014? Upsets happen. We had more talent across the board than Liberty except at QB. An unheralded recruit that the vast majority of college football missed on blossomed into a 1st round prospect and it was enough to pull an upset.
I get this is your shitck but damn.
No, but Bud Foster outcoached Tom Herman. We don't have any coaches like Bud anymore.
True, and VT over OSU in 2014 was an upset. But OSU went on to win the NC that year. Liberty, a ranked team with more wins than VT in 2020, beating VT isn't an upset. And that is the problem. VT used to be the premier football team in the state. VT losing to Liberty SHOULD be an upset but it just isn't. These coaches have torpedoed VTs standing as a football school. We're solidly in G5 territory and that is the problem DC has. And he's right.
We were a 17 point favorite per Vegas to beat Liberty. Yes, it was an upset.
it was an upset in name recognition only.
But if you take names out of the equation altogether and look at records going into the game do you really think a 7-0 team going up against a 4-3 team should lose by 17? Vegas doesn't set the lines based on what they think will happen. Vegas sets the lines based on how they think people will bet. Liberty was a better team going into that game. They had better coaches by a country mile. But they're so new to FBS that most of the betting public hasn't even heard of them. VT is more of a known. In betting terms, sure, it was an upset. But in reality, it really wasn't. The better coached team won. End. Of. Story.
That kinda blows your Liberty had an amazing QB and was ranked argument doesn't it?
You know, its possible sometimes that we don't know the future before it happens. Perhaps the game could be an upset at the time (see Vegas line) AND the team that won the game proves over the course of the season that they are actually good, and potentially have good players.
Here is another example: Its possible you are right AND that your presentation makes everyone want to argue that you are wrong.
My presentation is simple. We are now justifying losses to Liberty- at Virginia Tech in Football. and honestly- that's fine. Just call it what it is. Liberty had a pretty good QB, and that was too much. OK. Just acknowledge that this is where we are. In relatively 5 minutes, Liberty has built a program equal to VT. VT has every advantage- P5 conference, brand recognition, not a commuter school, 100 fold better academics- everything- and welp, they caught us. Just say it. I'm fine with it. But don't come on this board and cry "golly gee, I can't believe ND whipped our ass up and down the field in Lane". or "We are jinked at Heinz Field".. Just be honest. When you make excuses for losing to Liberty, you are never in a million years winning the ACC.
Ok. That's where we are. What is your incessant bitching and thread hijacking going to do about it? It's not the happiest time to be a VT football fan. But threads that go like this just pile on to that feeling.
Frankly, I'm tired of it. The only reason I even click these threads is the faint hope of legitimate news... and to make the unread alerts go away. The only satisfaction I get is the alerts. Otherwise, I'm met with sub threads like this.
This forum attitude makes me want to be a less involved fan. And if that is a similar feeling others get, then these conversations do nothing to help our team. The team needs fan base involvement.
I've literally thought about dropping my TKP membership because of this. At times, this place is getting way too toxic and irrational.
the sniping doesn't really happen in the tkpc threads tho
That's fair - it's been a rough off-season for all of us and we just spent our time bitching about the same things over and over again. And when people get irrational about dumb shit, it just shifts focus away from the things that actually matter.
By getting rid of my TKPC membership, it's more signaling "I don't like where this community is going" compared to where it was five years ago. Not Joe's fault, but just weird gripes by certain members of the community are starting to erode this place.
this happens every offseason, just so happens that this year we didn't have a spring game to get excited about!
/ducks
If you left TKP because of where the community is going you would have two options:
1) Join an equally or more negative VT forum. There is not a more positive one at the moment.
2) Stop discussing VT football online at all. This is probably a healthy option for many of us at this point lol, but we know we will always get pulled back in because we simply care too much about VT football.
I do understand the frustration with where things have been going in terms of discourse for a few years now, and this offseason (and the last... and the one before that) has (have) been pretty tumultuous. Many of us have never had to deal with a situation like this (with VT football) with a staff that has divided the fanbase, with our program in a state of uncertainty in regards to the future, and where we stand in the shifting climate of college football. We were all very fortunate to have the consistency (and longevitiy) of the Beamer/Bud era, and that level of stability has informed the way we are all dealing with the Fuente era in different ways. We are all going through it together, and I may be alone in this, but I appreciate the varying opinions and discussion we have had about these matters on TKP. Though certainly some arguments get tiresome and repetitive. I certainly would never discourage someone from taking a break if they felt they needed one.
It seems to me that from the number of comments of TKPC threads not a lot goes on there...
Imagine the number of comments on a French AMA that everyone had access to.
Go to TSL.. where the topics stay on the main page for a week. Because... they ran off anyone with an honest opinion. That's the place for you.
Malik Willis is a "pretty good QB" in the same way Christian Darrisaw is a "pretty good LT".
They beat us one time. They are not equal to us. JMU is not equal to us. ODU is not equal to us. What the fuck are you talking about?
We don't have every advanatage - they have a fuckton more money than we do.
It's one game dude. I guess than means in 2014, we were basically equal to OSU because we beat them, right?
Willis is at his third school, and plays in the Sun Belt. Yep, he's comparable to Darrisaw and Mac Jones.
Not really - Willis wasn't universally recognized as an elite college QB before we played them, he is now partially because he went into Lane and curb-stomped Justin Hamilton.
But please, everyone keep shitting on Corny.
I'm willing to give Hamilton a pass for last season. I want to see how his defense looks with a full offseason to install the defense and have everybody who he expects to be there there.
If we had an "average defense" last year, we're an over .500 team. If we had an "average VT defense" last year, we're 8-3 or 9-2.
An average VT defense last year would have had us undefeated except Clemson.
I still think UNC is a loss just given how damn talented that offense was.
An average defense (63rd out of 127 teams) would have allowed 3 points less than the Hokies did; which only gives us 1 additional win (Miami) and a potential win (Liberty). That puts us at 7-4.
If we say average means middle 1/5th of the pack and VT happens to be the top team of that pack (52nd), that puts us with 2 fewer points per game allowed. Liberty becomes a win, Wake Forest becomes winnable, which would put us at 8-3 at best.
I think we all assume an "average VT defense" is, at the very least, the bottom of the top 1/5th of teams, which would be 25th overall. That's another 6 ppg off of our totals. Wake is a win, UNC is a win. VT is 9-2. Clemson seemed a lot closer than the score indicates, so who knows how that would have gone, and the less said about Pitt, the better.
Fuck Pat Nardouche.
Here's the thing about the "our defense really sucked and that's why we lost so many games" argument. Is it actually true? Probably. But for almost a decade our defense kept our team in games that they otherwise shouldn't have been in because our offense was horrendous. The defense, by itself, dragged the offense across the finish line several times between 2005 and 2015. Even with a traditionally terrible offense, VT's defense was still good enough to win games. The expectation when Fuente was hired was that the roles would reverse and that, inevitably, when the defense sucked after Bud's departure the offense would be there to compensate. The Big12 is proof positive that it's possible to win lots of games with no defense as long as your offense is legit. Fuente was supposed to be bringing a "legit" offense to Blacksburg. He had 4 years to build that offense before Bud left and the defense, unsurprisingly, went off the cliff. And yet, when that happened, the offense just couldn't pull its weight. Now we're all throwing the defense under the bus for a bunch of losses that could have been wins had the offense been just 20% more competent.
The offense is marginally better than it was under Beamer. But marginally better isn't what Fuente was hired to do. He was hired to bring a high-octane, top-tier offense to Blacksburg. The type of offense that you could still win 8 games with if your defense goes kaput. Well, our defense did go kaput in 2020 and the offense wasn't good enough to get more than 5 wins. In two of the games we lost the defense held the opponent under 26 points. If the offense was good enough to just score 28 those would be wins.
Did the defense suck in 2020? Absolutely. Did we lose some games that could have been wins if the defense was better? Yes, no doubt. But the problem is that everyone knew the defense was going to suck in 2020. Fuente and Cornelson had 4 years to build an offense that could compensate for the kind of drop off that was neither surprising nor unpredictable. And they couldn't do it. The defense will improve. But the offense just hasn't lived up to its billing and that is the real issue here. Yes, the defense sucked. We get that. But the offense wasn't very good and that is more problematic because these coaches were brought in specifically to make the offense good and in 4 years they failed to do so. And I don't expect anything to change drastically moving forward. The defense might improve in 2021 (I hope it does, and I'm rooting for Hamilton) but I know what we're going to get from Cornelson and it's not going to be great. It won't be awful (hopefully) but it's also not going to be good enough to win the coastal.
I love him. But I can't give him a pass for that prevent defense that allowed a first down throw and game winning field goal. Everybody focused on the timeout, which in any honest conversation was a coin flip decision at worst. But allowing an uncontested sideline throw with time on the clock was a bad coaching decision...BAD.
Hamilton was over his skis last year, plain and simple. I agree - you can't really fire him but it's astounding the small level of blame the TKP community gives him. The defense was the #1 reason we lost six games last year.
I forgive him for his mistakes last season, but they won't be forgotten if he doesn't turn it around. I really hope he does. I could even see him ultimately being HC material if he can get the defense back.
I agree with you 100%- our defense sucks. Can't stop a nosebleed. And is one of the excuses/reasons Liberty is on equal footing now. And Wake. Lower your expectations
I know it is strictly hypothetical, but if all else remained the same, but the Liberty game was the last regular season game, and they were coming into Lane at 9-1, likely ranked, and we were coming in 5-5...I wonder what the spread woulda been...definitely not 17 point favorites
Haha, for sure.
Said player committed to VT but left because Fuente didn't think he was good enough to play QB. That isn't the defense you think it is.
So did Auburn, that's why he left to go play at Liberty.
The head coach at Auburn who made that choice was fired. Again, not the best defense of Fuente.
He had to go to Liberty because no other program wanted him. Dude, come on.
And FFS, Malzhan went 68-35 with a national championship appearance at Auburn, it's not like he's incompetent.
So the guy that VT cant be expected to compete with, wasn't wanted by anyone in the P5? lol make up your mind
He went from a quarterback that no P5 program wanted and over the course of a season turned into a first-round prospect.
Some days I can't tell if you're just trolling or actually this dense.
it is also interesting to me, that that QB projected to be a 1st round pick (is that really true?), was once committed to us, but we wouldn't give him a chance at QB. bad evaluation on our part...very similar to the majority of our WR evaluations. hopefully jones and lofton live up to the (limited) hype we have heard this spring, but i am not getting my hopes up for sims and moss, until they actually contribute.
The first I heard of this was in the last week or so, but yeah the "too early 2022 mock draft" buzz around Willis has him as a potential high riser. I think it's way too early to take that stuff seriously, but that is probably a signal that there is some legitimate NFL intrigue around him.
He's not a first round QB. No chance
Exhibit A, Exhibit B, Exhibit C, Exhibit D, Exhibit E.
But I mean, I'm sure some anonymous internet poster whose fetish is Fuente schadenfreude knows more about NFL potential than every NFL draft expert. Yeah, that makes sense.
We'll see. NFL mock drafts are always accurate
I trust them more than you, haha.
Nope. Logan Thomas was a first round projection once upon a time too. Being drafted at all will be a success story though considering nobody thought he was a legitimate quarterback.
Not directed at you, but apparently, people are saying it's Fuente's fault that he aligned with the same perspective that the vast majority of college programs had on Willis.
Like Steph Curry
Justin Fuente is 19-21 in his last 40 against P5 competition. Keep dying on that hill
Which puts him just about in Frank Beamer territory where Frank was 19-21 in his last 40 P5 games
If 19 and 21 is acceptable, then we should have let Frank stay. He is at least personable and will hold a spring game. He certainly danced better after wins in the locker room.
I get your point and I'm not saying you're wrong, but honestly I'm glad Frank got out when he did. If VT as a program isn't going to progress any further than those last few mediocre years under CFB, I'd rather all of us to be upset with Fuente and staff instead of directing our disappointment to Frank.
I know it doesn't actually change anything but it makes me feel better about Grandpa Frank.
Papa Frank looks 1000% time better now that he has retired. I honestly believe retiring probably saved his life.
via GIPHY
lol...
Great post, thanks for providing a unique view. My understanding of DC's stance is that he's not angry about this one game - It's the fact that Liberty is outpacing Virginia Tech.
The way I view it: There's expectations for the program at large, expectations for the season, and expectations within the season. At the end of the day, the frustration isn't that we lost a game to a ranked opponent; the frustration is that Liberty Football has more momentum and a seemingly better trajectory than Virginia Tech Football.
The problem is, it's not just Liberty - Teams that we used to have a ~90% chance of beating are now close to coin flips. Fuente is 25-17 (.595) in 42 ACC games. If you were to dig deeper and look at how close these games are, you'd also see that our losses are coming at larger margins.
Circling back to this comment:
I agree with boyleJC2, but at some point, the micro-occurrences become a macro-trend. Our hit rate just isn't high enough (for a variety of reasons), and ultimately that's the coaches' fault.
Agreed there are many factors at play. However, at a 30,000 ft view, when you have a stated goal to have 7-8 receivers ready to contribute and rotate and you have this many busts and attrition for several years now, something with the plan isn't working.
Wasn't the 7-8 receiver rotation a Wiggins comment? It keeps being brought up, but my recollection was the coach who actually said it is gone now. Maybe I'm wrong.
Wiggins was the main coach who made that comment, but I believe it was talking about generally how they run this system and how many wideouts they like to have in the rotation, not his personal preference. If that's not the case anymore, they've been recruiting an awful lot of wideouts the last few years.
No , corny said it in his first presser here.
Thanks for the correction. Faulty memory...
Leg
247 composite had Ellis as a mid to upper 3* star at .8736, so he certainly wan't a "four-star bust that we should have worked harder to keep."
It sounds like we got away from a drama filled situation with him and his family.
Wish him all the best. The hype around Lofton and Jones in the spring had me thinking someone would leave. I hope he finds some success elsewhere.
Hype being the key word. Caleb Smith is WR 3 on this team. If Saunders can't crack that lineup, it's a recruiting miss or we can't coach a lick.
yes, and to add to this, if you are a WR on this team, and you get no real reps your true freshman year, when you have 4 free games to play in....then you probably aren't going to contribute here long-term. there are probably numbers to crunch on that, that someone with more time than me can look into.
Correct. I've been saying this. It's a legit red flag, IMO. If a TF is healthy and doesn't get any free snaps, they probably aren't destined for stardom
Curious, are there any 24-28 year old receivers still on campus that have retired with eligibility left?
I know that early on these coaches said they wanted to have 7 or 8 solid options at WR but is that really practical? How are other programs handling that position? For a set of coaches who want to have that many reliable options its pretty frustrating that they can't even get more than two. Hopefully receivers blow up this year and we're suddenly WRU but it hasn't happened yet so I'm not holding my breath there
In order for our WRs to "blow up", first I think we'll need to see some QB development, since we haven't seen basically any QB development over these G5 years, I think that is a hard ask.
Unless of course, by "blow up", you mean we have 7-8 WRs who can pop off a 10 yard jet sweep at any given moment
But, But, QB Whisperer...
The problem with this argument is that some folks would tell you that the reason the QBs aren't having more success is because the WRs aren't getting enough separation. StineyDraw will tell you that when Ford and Phillips were here our passing offense "thrived" because the WRs could actually get open. You see, it's a talent issue. But if the WRs suddenly become more talented, and are getting dozens of yards of separation like Ford and Phillips did Burmeister will hit them all day long and our offense will be unstoppable all the way to 15-0!!!!
I try to add insight to this board because i have a little bit of knowledge about college football. You wanna mock that, be my guest. Our receivers last year couldn't get separation or win one on ones consistently. Do i think if we suddenly have guys on the outside that can win we'll be 15-0? No. Do i think we would have a more successful passing offense and have a more realistic shot at 10 wins and the coastal? Yes.
the point of my post isn't to mock you so much as to point out that the offense doesn't have any one particular problem. The issues are systemic. We're not bad at offense simply because we don't have a good QB. We're not bad at offense simply because we don't have any good WRs. We're not bad at offense simply because (Herbert aside) we can't find a reliable RB. Though many of these things are true, none of them is the single greatest cause. Our offense sucks at multiple levels and that, ultimately, falls to the coaching. The common denominator. I'm not making fun of you per se. I'm making fun of the idea that if we just fix this one problem we'll be okay. No, we won't. Finding receivers who can get separation isn't going to magically fix this offense and get it up into 8-10 win territory. Finding a QB who can throw the ball reliably isn't going to drastically change the results on the field alone. This offense is riddled with issues and the root cause is a huge, program wide failure by all the coaches at major aspects of their jobs (recruiting, developing, game planning, etc.)
I'm just tired of people saying things like "if we could just find a WR to take the top off...." or "if we could just find a QB who can make all the reads..." or "if we could just find a RB who can make the unblocked guy miss..."
This offense doesn't have a simple fix. It's broken in many areas. And these coaches have proven in their 5 years that they're not capable of fixing those issues. The issues are systemic and the only way to really fix it moving forward is to clean house and start fresh.
We were literally an 8-10 win team with this offense in 2019, 2017, and 2016. I'd argue that the offense last year was better than the offense in 2019 (obviously in the run game but also the passing game). To me from going back and watching the games, our primary issue is talent on the outside. Are there other issues such as 3rd down playcalling? Yes. But i think this team wins 8 games last year (add on Liberty, Wake, and Miami) with better playmaking on the outside.
We were an 8-10 win team with Beamer's recruits in this offense AND a Bud Foster defense. Well, we don't have Beamer to recruit our players anymore and we don't have Bud Foster to work his defensive magic anymore. Jury is still out on Hamilton but the offense has underperformed relative to it's billing and I don't expect it to improve given that the recruiting has been so bad. Not only are we failing to bring in talent, we also seem to be failing to develop/retain the bodies that we do bring in. Again, I'm singling out the offense here because 1) Foster was a known quantity and 2) Hamilton is too new to evaluate. This offense is much further away from 8-10 win seasons than you might think. Fixing just one of the myriad problems isn't going to get us there. And the fact this coaching staff has largely failed to fix any of the problems at all it's highly unlikely that they'll fix all of them at once. I'll be shocked if we have great QB play and great WR play in the same season. And that's what it will take to get into that 8-10 wins category.
I agree there's not a simple fix, but we can also acknowledge that fixing one area can improve other areas - if you can get separation from the receivers, you (1) give the QB a larger margin for error, thus masking talent deficiencies at that position and (2) force the defense to devote more resources to defending the pass, opening up opportunities to run. When the defense doesn't force you to be 1-dimensional, playcalling becomes much easier.
That said, you need a baseline level of talent and development at all areas. We can't seem to fix one issue without another issue popping up.
One would think.
The counter argument to that is the running game with Herbert did initially open up the passing game for Hooker/Burmeister and this team failed to capitalize on that. Defenses adjusted by focusing on stopping the run and thus succeeded in making us one-dimensional and it resulted in 6 losses.
Herbert's beast-mode-ness should, in theory, have made things easier on the passing game and that never materialized. So I'm inclined to believe that even if WRs are able to get separation that's not going to actually result in improvements in other areas. We have evidence that fixing one area does not lead to improvements in other areas.
Kudos to the coaches for getting Herbert here and temporarily "fixing" the running game. It's unfortunate they couldn't take advantage of that. The best OL and RB combo we've probably ever had wasn't enough to help the rest of the offense. With the OL rebuilding and Herbert gone I don't expect the offense to be any better.
Offense wasn't the problem last year - Statistically (AKA, per SP+) this was our best offense since 2010, and tied for third most effective offense in the SP+ era (AKA, since 2005, our best offenses were 2009, 2010, and 2020/2005 - both of which were the 20th best offense). It was also our second worst defense in SP+ history (2018 was our worst). I recently compiled our SP+ rankings over the years for another comment, so this was top of mind.
Interesting note - the only time in the Fuente era that we were top 40 in both offense and defense was 2016. Frank did this 4 times from 2005-2011.
Anyways - I would argue that Herbert did enough to 'fix' 'enough' things on offense. Defense just wasn't there to compliment it (but that's another discussion IMO).
I do think our explosiveness in the run game AND passing game skewed our results a bit offensively. While our passing success rate being very poor was largely covered up by the explosiveness in other areas.
You know I am a huge fan of SP+, but any analytic has some data mixes that lead to odd results. There's a limit to how "good" I can view any normal (non-triple option) P5 offense with as unreliable a drop back passing attack as ours was and has been. It's simply too important an aspect of the modern game.
I agree, however, that the offense was not our primary issue last season. Though in certain games like Miami or Wake Forest I have no issue maligning the offense.
I'm replying to both of you here because I have essentially the same reply.
The defense was the biggest problem last year. I'm not arguing against that. But I'm not okay with giving the offense a pass. The offense leaves quite a lot to be desired. It's not the worst. That's good. But it's pretty bloody mediocre for a group of coaches billed as offensive gurus.
My issue is that the offense was supposed to be good enough to carry a terrible defense and it just isn't. Fuente told Bud that he wouldn't have to be perfect. Well, when our defense isn't perfect our offense isn't winning the games.
I'm not arguing that we should only blast the offense and that the defense is blameless. I'm arguing that the offense should carry more blame for underperforming.
I don't think I disagree with you. I think we had a 'decent' or even 'good' offense last year, but needed a 'great' offense to support that defense.
I think that's a little hyperbolic; the defense doesn't have to be perfect, but it does need to be functional (IMO top 40). Looking back at SP+ rankings from
2014 and2015, Memphis's defensive SP+ (32and 35, respectively) was higher than their offensive ranking (79and 47, respectively). Fuente's best season at Memphis wasn't in spite of a bad defense; he won in large part due to a decent defense.CORRECTION: Here is Memphis's SP+ Ranking during Fuente's time.
Now this brings up a really interesting point. Where did the whole idea of Justin Fuente being an offensive guru and QB whisperer come from? Was it bad eval by Whit/media? Was his agent just really savvy in billing him as something VT desperately wanted?
Is Fuente suffering, in part, to unfair expectations based on a reputation he neither earned nor deserved?
I have the same question tbh... I knew that Fuente's Memphis defenses were underrated, but I didn't think his final offense was that bad. I remember watching Fuente's teams and thinking man those offenses are fun to watch. I know it wasn't Whit, because Fuente was touted as being a great offensive mind.
I dunno... I feel like advanced analytics were a niche part of college football around 2018ish? Maybe in 2016 CFB as a whole was still looking at stats like 'total yards' instead of Expected Points per Play. I agree - this does not fit the 2016-Fuente narrative at all.
I was happy with the Fuente hire, but really wanted Chad Morris... So I obviously knew nothing.
His 2012 offense was shit not 2015. The table is inverted. The 2015 offense was actually solid, but the success before that was due to Odom's defenses.
In 2012 they couldn't score at all, that offense was absolutely pathetic, one of the worst the American conference has seen in a while (Scottie Montgomery ECU level). In 2014 they had a solid record but it was the defense carrying them. In fact I assumed Fu was a defensive coach after that season and was surprised to learn he was an OC because his offenses didn't perform at all the first 3 years.
In 2015 (Galen Scott DC year) their defense took a huge step back and it was clearly an offense first team, but even then it wasn't like they were dominant. The Ole Miss game was their coming out where they actually beat a decent team and competent defense, but thats a game they could have easily lost. I had initially written them off after Ole Miss got up early but it seemed like Memphis just wore the defense down with Lynch being an accurate dual threat having 8 receivers in the rotation, in addition to it being a home game and the D getting a few key stops late.
To sum up I never thought of Fuente as some offensive genius, imo some of his most impressive offensive success came at Tech with Evans. At Memphis he was most impressive for player development and roster building (and not necessarily star ratings for recruiting). And of course having Barry Odom run the defense, he doesn't make it through 3 years without Odom there
Also I'll add that Fuente would probably never would have won the American if he stayed at Memphis. His last offense was good but not near UCF or Herman Houston good. For the amount of yards gained they still struggled with (you guessed it) getting the ball in the endzone.
This isn't to say Fuente couldn't have been a great coach for Tech. An offense at the level of his 4th Memphis year but with better players and a good Bud Foster defense is a playoff contender. After the Evans year I was convinced he was some kind of genius (that type of production with a first year offensive system and a one-read QB from a community college are you kidding me??). But now it's clear that was just because we were loaded at offensive skill positions and Evans was a god
I couldn't really agree more. Evans was a large reason for the success in 2016. I would have told you back then that it was Fuente. But here we are 5 years later and it is becoming increasingly evident that the success of that 2016 team had much, much more to do with Evans and the talent around him than anything else.
yeah, I was happy with the Fuente hire too...I really wanted Tom Herman so I know just about as much as you do *shrug emoji*
Might be the simplest fix, lol
It's impossible to do when 80% of them transfer
We need receivers to go off and get drafted too. We haven't had one since Cam Phillips? Him and Ford were both late rounders. Hopefully Payoute ends up being the truth and we can finally have some top talent to point to
Is losing 8 of the 12 HS receivers you recruited to the portal bad? Asking for a friend.
Only if you do t have 28 RBs on your roster
DC, now we know why he was bringing in a dozen a year per draft class- got to see who sticks!
Me when Fuente was hired:
A couple years later:
Me after last off season + Hokies go 5-6 in 2020:
DC:
My feelings through this offseason:
ditto
Brilliant. Well done.
Me after the loss to liberty.
Nah, he has another 8 WR's and 14 RB's lined up for those spots.
which is why VT isn't known for our defense anymore...no schollies for the defense with hundreds allotted for RB, WR, and OL...I'll cry as I leave now.
It's a big reason why our defense was so thin in 2018, and we are still thin in a lot spots on the DL. The amount of scholarships allocated to WR and RB the last few years with so much attrition and little productivity is pretty bad. A large chunk of our roster with no impact.
Thinner at linebacker, corner, and safety right now than DL. There are seven defensive tackles with meaningful game experience on scholarship. Barno, Belmar, Griffin, Garbutt, and Wooten all played last year, with Beadles and Adams both on scholarship. Bryant is a tweener, also on scholarship. Linebacker got a couple more bodies in this last recruiting class but who knows if they can ball. Corner is scary thin.
Yes if they do not do the jet sweep they are obviously not qualified to wr
On a related note how the fuck was Dazz Newsome not a take until late in the process
Maybe we've been complaining the most about the wrong assistant coach for the past 12-18 months....
Jafar Williams? He's Cornelson's responsibility. Brad Cornelson? He's Fuente's responsibility. Justin Fuente? He's Whit's responsibility. Whit Babcock?
I mean, how far do we go? Ultimately the football team just isn't getting it done. Blame administrators, coaches, players, fans?
At this point, the rest of VT athletics is doing pretty well. So Whit's track record is pretty good. The football team is doing miserably. And just about every aspect of the football program is broken in some way. If Jafar isn't doing his job well it's up to Cornelson to correct it by helping him improve or replacing him with someone who can do the job adequately. If Cornelson isn't doing his job well it's up to Fuente to correct it by...you get the point. At this point I'm tired of blaming assistant coaches. What is the common denominator? I think everyone, including Whit, knows what needs to be changed. It's just a matter of time, hopefully.
Recruiting is an inexact science, sure. But if you want to know why VT is now mid tier ACC at best? Look there. Our classes no longer have alpha players at the top, and are not balanced. If your plan is to coach up 2-3 star players, they need to stay in the program- well they don't do that, either. VT won't get "back" until we pull in better players. Fact.
It was nice to get a little perspective on Tyree from our Florida Hokie. It seems like Tyree is a nice young man and also a pretty good wide receiver but he fell down the depth chart with others coming in. Wish him best of luck and hope our WR group makes headway.
I was definitely not a fan of Jafar Williams in terms of Hiring him, would have liked to find someone with Big 12 or SEC experience. I think Jafar is good, would have benefitted with a little more experience.
By the time I got down to this comment I honestly forgot what this thread was supposed to be about and had an "Oh yeah" moment. Leg for staying on topic
Chooooooo. 70 plus comments in the portal thread so thought we had a lot more portal entries. Boy was I wrong.
It's kind of like the TKP version of a massive email thread at work where people keep replying all and next thing you know you end up with 300 emails not related to your job (many of which are people yelling at each other for replying all)
What is worse, being caught in a reply all or getting 25 thumbs up emojis to a simple notification on a group text?
Getting 25 separate
messages because that one guy in the group doesn't have an iPhone and we all get individual texts instead 😕
Well it's a stupid feature. If you aren't adding to the conversation I don't need to know that you liked or disliked some comment. It's absolutely dumb as hell to me. Everything doesn't need to be like facebook or some other social media.
best use of an iPhone
You are hanging with the wrong people if only one person doesn't have an iPhone, lol.
My samsung handles group texts fine. But those laughed and liked texts drive me crazy...
Fuck, I opened this thread for the same damn reason (oh noes, who is transferring now) and it was 2 comments wishing Saunders the best and all the rest fighting about whether or not losing to Liberty is an upset and whose fault it is and why THESE STATISTICS PROVE MY POINT. Jesus wept, this goddamn offseason.
I hear ya. Those two fuckers are persistent, insufferable, and are doing their best to dominate and ruin this great site that Joe built for all of us Hokies.
Holy shit guys, enough is enough. Get a life, move on, please don't overtake every single thread with your tiresome rants.
not necessary
I feel like it might be time to change your tag from "Recovering" to "Relapsed".
I agree in that I personally find it tiresome. Having said that, please don't resort to name calling because you disagree with their opinions and their expression of those opinions.
Also I am now fully on team individual posts for each portal entrant... so feel free (anyone) to make a post for the next one haha.
yeah i think this might be the one that finally sees me resign my captaincy of Team Megathread
Don't worry I was a fan as well, but we underestimated the immeasurable power of the comment section.
I mean, is it really much better to have all this discourse spread over individual threads rather than just 1 big discourse thr...I mean portal entry thread?
Without the comments people are bickering about, there would be no discussion at all site wide on slow days. This is better than that in my opinion.
Absolutely not
I disagree with your take. Let's argue.
Hi guys, just got here. So what's going on with the portal? /s
Nothing new...keep moving
Well, 350 posts earlier one WR entered the portal. Since then NADA. Can we bring back the Reader's Digest version for us older readers?
My suggestion for this thread:
Dust off and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
And yes, I realize I just contributed to the run of useless posts. Carry on.
What a great movie that was.
This is worse than a little league group text.
I don't have kids so I have never thought about this before and that sounds like an awful and cursed thing.