By: Joe Lanza PUBLISHER on October 24, 2020, 6:45 PM | 553 comments Thanks! Forums: Football Forum DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff. Tweet 0 Share 0 Email to Friend Comments wasknick HIT THE PACE CAR | 1 month 6 days # LOL Hokie2013 | 1 month 6 days # I am too emotionally drained to light anything on fire. This was our game to lose and we did a great job of that tjbhokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ This. I'm kinda just melancholy chparkervatech | 1 month 4 days # ^ Don't we always in this type of situation? Start the reason with no losses or one, get hyped up by beating mediocre and maybe one better than average team, heads balloon, coaches don't game plan as well, and then we get embarrassed. This has been a Virginia Tech tradition. "Come on man!" Hokie2013 | 1 month 4 days # ^ This is accurate. I feel better about games we are supposed to lose Hokies LT_3 | 1 month 6 days # This team is a joke we are going to have 4-6 losses. And Clemson is putting up record numbers in Lane while scoring 75+. HokieEnginerd | 1 month 6 days # ^ We will be lucky if they don't put GT numbers on our joke a a defense. aptturkey | 1 month 6 days # ^ Wiki says the last time 100 points was scored in a game was 1969 (giggity). Clemson might update that stat list. Rayo | 1 month 6 days # ^ Shut up Hokies LT_3 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Truth hurts dont it no reason to get pissy with me bruh Rayo | 1 month 6 days # ^ Its just a useless comment and annoying negativity Hokies LT_3 | 1 month 4 days # ^ What's useless and negative is telling a fellow Hokie fan to "shut up" for having an opinion... It's not about negativity its about being realistic with what's most likely going to happen instead of just notching this up to a "bump in the road" and ignore the facts that this defense is thin on depth and play makers and Clemson's elite offense is going to reek havoc in our home stadium. If Wake Forest can do that to us what will Trevor Lawrence alone do... vtnerf 🏌️♂️⛳🍀🍺🎣🧔⛈️ | 1 month 4 days # ^ VTacajoe | 1 month 6 days # oh, it's coming! lol Stockleybridge | 1 month 6 days # I'm not even mad. Can't get angry when you're completely used to it. special_teams_TD12 | 1 month 6 days # it's either going to be your website or every article of Tech clothing I own Frosty's dad | 1 month 6 days # I'm glad I didn't get to actually see any of the game with my eyes aren't I? Gillie's Blue | 1 month 5 days # ^ My #1 takeaway was that this team was not at all ready to play. Over 100 yards in penalties, including several really stupid ones, at critical times. Hewitt got called on an entirely legit targeting penalty, then threw such a fit that they tacked on an unsportsmanlike on top of it. Un-fucking-real. HTHokie93 | 1 month 4 days # ^ Sigh. Same here. I listened to it, and that was bad enough. What made it worse was, after months of writing the season off due to COVID, I was just getting excited about a Hokie run game that had been absent for nearly a decade. And even more so that it represented dominance in the trenches. But College Football is like that. And it's actually one of the reasons it's so great. There's simply not much room for a hiccup. And even in the CFB, glory years, there always seemed to be at least one 'unprepared to play' game. Back then, Temple was our dreaded annual 'mismatch we should expect to win, but...'. 99Hokies03 | 1 month 6 days # Fuente Unqualified, Entirely Not Too Entertaining /s Did I do it right? VTacajoe | 1 month 6 days # ^ but but but he started Hooker! Back2VT SNOOK WHISPERER | 1 month 6 days # ^ I'll allow it gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 6 days # ^ Is this technically recursive? ohherro 🥁STICK IT IN🥁 | 1 month 6 days # ^ you misspelled "Fuentes" 99Hokies03 | 1 month 6 days # ^ "/s" was for the "s" in Fuentes' name. /s citadelhokie | 1 month 6 days # Koastal Kings | 1 month 6 days # So all I know is that games against Wake are miserable. Clone-A-Fuller | 1 month 6 days # ^ I was at last years game...that was fun Frosty's dad | 1 month 6 days # ^ Same here. That was my first game seen in person in many years. Last one before that was the abomination at Temple where we won on the missed extra point in overtime against one of the worst teams in the country. I guess a win is a win, but it did not feel very satisfying. DFWHokie STRANGER IN THE ALPS | 1 month 4 days # ^ At least it wasn't the Temple game in 98. I was at that one. Frosty's dad | 1 month 4 days # ^ Ugh. Sorry to hear. Glad you survived it though. HokieAlum6144 | 1 month 4 days # ^ That was my first non student game after I had graduated the year before. Clone-A-Fuller | 1 month 6 days # I'm checking out after this... but if you told me we'd hold Wake to 23 pts I would've said we'd win easily. This is the annual let down loss and it fucking sucks. Expectations are no longer about contending in the ACC, just beat UVa is all I've got now. RichDMD | 1 month 6 days # ^ I pray we keep the bowl streak alive. HokieEnginerd | 1 month 6 days # ^ The bowl streak is fine because the NCAA eliminated the win restriction this year. jjcopeland | 1 month 5 days # ^ I think we need to lose the bowl streak Doesn't do anything for us other than VT Twitter can put out tweets about it. GISHokie 🤠TEXAS TURKEY 🌎 | 1 month 5 days # ^ If it doesn't hurt us, why should we lose it? I agree it doesn't help us much, but I don't see the rationale in just completely losing it just for the heck of it. Koastal Kings | 1 month 6 days # ^ We havent recruited well enough to expect anything less for a long time. Rayo | 1 month 6 days # ^ The roster is fine this year though (big emphasis on this year). This was an execution and play call failure. We could and should have won this game by double digits, the redzone turnovers and stagnant offense really cost us Hokie Fireman 🚨 🚒 🔥 | 1 month 5 days # ^ What game were you watching that you think play calling was the issue yesterday? zblaetz 🏌🏻♂️🏈🦃 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Then technically it would never be the couches fault would it? Isn't every single play ran designed for a positive outcome? I'd argue we ran some plays that set up our guys for failure especially in crucial moments. You can disagree but that's about all you can do because how can we ever determine which is which? Hokie Fireman 🚨 🚒 🔥 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Ill wait till French does his film review but I bet Hooker missed some wide open WR's, handed off on plays where if he kept would have been long gains, WR's failed to make key plays in getting separation and defenders failed to wrap up and tackle easy short gains. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 5 days # ^ What is more ridiculous of the following two statements? It is always the Coaching to blame for unsuccessful plays. Coaching is never to blame. I bet the truth lies squarely in the middle. OHokie | 1 month 4 days # ^ "I bet the truth lies squarely in the middle" is clearly the most ridiculous of the statements. Edit: Downvotes for this? Really? This is the most light-hearted thing I've posted here in a while. Rayo | 1 month 5 days # ^ Its not the talent on the roster. Although it is obvious that the honeymoon for this O line is over. At least when it comes to the pass block dcwilson40 GT SUCKS AT PASSING | 1 month 4 days # ^ Hard disagree. We have some decent OL and running backs... After that? mediocre dcwilson40 GT SUCKS AT PASSING | 1 month 4 days # ^ Execution and a million penalties and mistakes IS a reflection of talent. It's not coincidence that great players make less bonehead mistakes. There are huge talent gaps on this roster. We can choose to ignore it, and say it's unfair to criticize 18 year olds, but it's fact. The last 6 Februaries many people log on here and tout how many hidden beats are in the class, and we backed off all of the highly rated Virginia kids, but the results don't lie. We lose to shit teams like Duke and Wake, etc. This isn't 30 years ago - college rating services are pretty damn accurate and there are very few hidden gems out there anymore. When you put mediocre talent out there, you make a million fucking mistakes and you are inconsistent from game to game. Sure, you can outsmart or outcoach teams at times, but this staff isn't that either. We are the 7-8th best program in the ACC- swallow that and hope we beat UVA each year. hokietrax | 1 month 5 days # ^ No, that was the 1st of 2 head-scratchers. Shot, waiting on chaser. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # Players didn't make plays today. Refs conveniently found ways to stall any momentum we ever had (they were bad both ways but timing killed us). Coaching looked fine to me but we must learn to pass. This was first game we missed Hazelton. Bragghokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ get out of here with your reasonable take Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ The entire team was a hot mess. The coaches did a great job this week... /S Bragghokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ agian, corn threw those pics....vice got dominated by the DL.....reallly?? we have one of the best OL's that we've had in a long time and they got straight whipped today. I'm sure coaches have their faults as well but everyone wants to fire the entire staff after every loss....it gets tired and boring. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Fucking right. Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ You're clearly missing the point. Bragghokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ clearly...... Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ As I've stated elsewhere in various other ways, the issues with this program/team are systemic and ugliness, at some point or another throughout the season, will always rise up. Today was one of those days. It's really that simple. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ This team has been absurdly efficient and clean. Today we turn it over and commit penalties all over the field. How is it systemic if it isn't consistent? It is random. It is wear and tear. It is the same thing that causes favorites to lose games every sing week. Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ Think more broadly. HorseOnATreadmill | 1 month 6 days # ^ This. We were one of the least penalized teams in the country before today. Today? Ten penalties for 112 yards, many at critical points. Two interceptions down in Wake territory? We did plenty today to kill ourselves. hokietrax | 1 month 5 days # ^ We were also highly ranked on offense...before. This team ain't winning with D, so hopefully someone will figure out what to do when everyone follows the tried and true "stack the box vs VT" strategy. lepakkkkk | 1 month 6 days # This team just isn't fun any more to watch this season. Even despite last week's score, it was a very uncomfortable watch for me. freefall | 1 month 6 days # ^ Aside from the outlier that was Fu's first season, this team hasn't been fun to watch for over a decade. Nate23VT | 1 month 6 days # ^ this team hasn't been fun to watch for over a decade. The following were fun: 2011: Miami and UVA 2013: Miami and UVA 2014; Ohio State 2016: UNC, ND, Arkansas 2017: WVU 2018: FSU and UVA 2019: UNC So after doing all that research, that was 12 "fun" games over 10 years. 1.2 fun games a year. FML bluehokie2006 | 1 month 6 days # ^ I'd add uva 2016 to that list. Finally opening up a full can of whoop ass on them after years of single score squeakers? Yeah, that was fun. Was it 2017 or 2018 where we just went out and beat up on UNC like a blue headed stepchild? And most of the 2019 games between Duke and uva were fun. Hokies LT_3 | 1 month 6 days # ^ That was 2017 59-7 Hokies LT_3 | 1 month 6 days # ^ 2016 Miami was freaking awesome. My 1st Thursday night in Lane whipping Hurricane Ass 37-16 Back2VT SNOOK WHISPERER | 1 month 6 days # ^ I was there with my (then 4 year old) son. It was definitely fun. If both teams had won the week before that, it would have been packed and loud as hell Hokies LT_3 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Oh totally I went to the UNC game that year and was still riding that high of beating them senseless and with the prospect of a top 15 VT vs Miami matchup thursday night game in Lane I bought tickets like 3 days before we lost to SU and Miami lost that same week and we were back to 2 unranked teams and I was PISSED! But it was one of the best games I ever went to but doesnt beat 2011 glad I was at that one too. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ That is a bullshit emotional response based on a loss today. If every win we have had wasn't fun, I suggest you ask yourself why. freefall | 1 month 4 days # ^ It's definitely an emotional reaction, but it's neither bullshit nor based on just this game, or even this year. I was a student in the mid-90s (class of '96). I sat through 2-8-1, then watched the unbelievable rise of VT football. I was in New Orleans for the 95 Sugar Bowl... and then again in '99 for the MNCG. We had so much fun that even repeated trips to Jacksonville were a blast (well, 2005 not so much). There was the weekend when we watched VT play Pitt in Lane, then packed up the tailgate and drove to Charlotte to do it all over the next day and watch MV1 lead the Falcons against the Panthers. We were in Miami to see the team win the de-facto ACC championship game, followed by another trip to New Orleans. I remember when Game Day first came to Blacksburg, and I remember the day that Corso said god was a Hokie like it was yesterday. In those days I was a die-hard fan, albeit one frustrated with CFB's unwillingness to make what I believed were necessary staff changes. I donated at a decent level, bought season tickets every year, and traveled to away games & bowls. It was disappointing that VT never took that proverbial next step, but it was still a hell of a lot of fun and a great time to be a fan. But as time went by, and the same problems continued to surface year after year, my enthusiasm for VT football began to wane. I still donated, still bought season tickets, but didn't always make every home game and mostly quit going to away games/bowls. The last several years of CFB's tenure were an unfortunate end to an otherwise storybook career. In CJF's first year, I felt hope for the first time in a long time. I posted here about how amazing it was, because transitions just don't go that smoothly, especially when you're replacing a legend. But all too soon it faded again when it became apparent (to me, anyway) that we'd seen his ceiling in that first year. Now? I no longer donate or buy season tickets, and I engage less and less on sites like this one. I haven't been to Lane since 2018 and the last away game I went to was tOSU. There's just so much more to do with my time that gives me more enjoyment. I turned off the TV in disgust after the first half last week and if my wife hadn't looked it up yesterday, I couldn't have told you who we were playing this weekend; despite my intense hatred of all things Loserville, I've got better things to do. That's how bad it has gotten. This Saturday, I will (by choice) be out splitting firewood, building a shed, and doing work around the house instead of watching football. I'll take the kiddos for 4-wheeler rides, sight in a rifle I just built, and go check on my tree stands since it's almost hunting season. I'll still DVR the game, and if we win I'll watch it when I have time. If not, I'll just be happy for all the other stuff I got done. Don't get me wrong, I *want* it to be like it was 20 years ago, when weekends in the fall revolved around VT football, and nothing was more important than getting out early to the tailgate on Saturday mornings. But it's a significant investment of money and, more importantly, time. If the majority of games end with us leaving the stadium disappointed, if many wins *feel* like losses, then why make that investment? I'd rather take my kids somewhere fun, or go skydive, or a dozen other things. I completely respect that you may disagree with everything I said above, and you're free to consider me not a "true fan". But I don't care, because I'll be spending my time doing things that matter more to me, hoping that some day it gets back to the way it used to be. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 4 days # ^ I won't go to the true fan category. Sounds to me like you have fallen out of love with hokie football in general. I don't have a beef with that. I am glad you are enjoying your time doing other things. It just seems strange that you wouldn't give it a chance to be fun. We could have put on a massive ass whooping second half and you wouldn't have experienced it. If you just prefer doing other things, great, but why come on a fanatic message board to say things aren't fun if you really just don't care? To that though, I apologize if I mischaracterized your comment and came across as accusatory. I for one am a football fan. Most of my extra time watching football revolves around hokie football, but I will watch anything I have time for. So for me, it is fun to watch regardless. I get that losing sucks, but I still watch every week knowing it may be the next Nebraska comeback, UNC overtime game, or Ohio State upset. If not, I watch the next game. I try not to let my team's win loss record control my mood. freefall | 1 month 3 days # ^ It just seems strange that you wouldn't give it a chance to be fun. You can only give so many second, third, and fourth chances before you decide to try something new. At this point, I'm convinced that CJF isn't the answer, and we're just playing out the string until either he leaves or VT can't afford not to buy him out. I will watch anything I have time for. So for me, it is fun to watch regardless. I'll be the first to admit that for many years, I let VT football have way too much control of my emotional state on gameday weekends. The best was when we won on Thursday night, because then I could settle in and just enjoy an entire weekend of football no matter what else happened. But a loss, especially a bad loss, totally ruined it for me. College football is an amazing phenomenon, full of passion and energy, but when VT lost, all that went out the window for me because I was pissed. Irrational? Obviously. Stupid? Yes. But reality. It's also ironic that two of the games you mention (Nebraska and UNC) fall into my personal "wins that felt like losses" category, but that's another discussion for another time. :-) why come on a fanatic message board to say things aren't fun if you really just don't care In this case I was checking out the thread to see how everyone else felt and made a throwaway one-liner comment. But in general, I come here because I value the perspective that folks here have. I appreciate the X's & O's insight from French and others. I've enjoyed the discussions, learned a bunch about fishing, and have been entertained for hours with all the drama that's happened here over the years. I'm not one of the cool kids with a million legs, but I've been around longer than most and it's a great community. But most of all, it's like I said: I desperately want it to be like it used to be, when every year felt like it could be THE year... well, usually right up until we shit the bed against Pitt, WVU, or BC. :-). But even then, some of VT's most memorable games/runs came after some of those head-scratching losses. Remember Miami in '03? Or the ACC championship run after the boyzee/JMU debacles? I guess that's just my long-winded way of saying that deep down, I really don't want to let go, even if I can't really find much to be excited about any more. I apologize if I mischaracterized your comment and came across as accusatory. All good, dude. StineyDraw48 | 1 month 3 days # ^ If you have a "wins that felt like losses" category and one of those includes a miracle win over a #19 team that went on to the Big 12 championship, then i think you're doing football wrong. But i'm with you on a lot of what you said. These types of loses now feel a lot more like the stretch from 2001-2003, where there wasn't a comeback story in the works, just some disappointing losses, instead of like 2004 or 2010 where it was a minor setback for a major comeback and it does leave "c'est la vie" kinda feeling afterwards. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 3 days # ^ All good and thanks for the chat. Stockleybridge | 1 month 6 days # They're VT legends and always will be...but that Basham kid wasn't good enough for Bud and Charley. Huh. It's like we can't stop making mistakes long enough to move the program forward now. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Every equivalent wake forest team has players that bigger schools overlooked. Bragghokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ they said he had an offer from us....just didn't choose us Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ They were wrong. He did not have an official offer. Bragghokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ ok....and?? Strong had like two FBS offers and he's playing pretty well for us....what's you're point? We aren't going to get every player out of VA that ends up being good. Been that way for a while. Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ I never said anything about whether or not I thought we should get him when he was in HS. I was simply pointing out something you were mistaken about Bragghokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ gotcha, leg chparkervatech | 1 month 4 days # ^ We have stooped down to equivalating our program to Wake Forest personnel? So sad. dcwilson40 GT SUCKS AT PASSING | 1 month 4 days # ^ And?? We are losing to BC, ODU, Wake, Duke... maybe we should stop "backing off" of actual good college players? Bragghokie | 1 month 4 days # ^ Yes I'm sure we back of good players for whatever reason....if only you ran the recruiting dept you would get all the stars... Jander75 🙈🙉🙊🥓🍻 | 1 month 6 days # Based on looking at the box score it was blacked out and I could not watch I think? vt2016 | 1 month 6 days # I realize that running the ball was the strength of the team this year, but why has Hooker not developed as a passer after 4 years in the program? This just stinks. This is the program Fuente has built, and we can't beat Wake? I understand that he has a new defensive staff, but the offense didn't put up jack today. His promise to Bud Foster about not having to play perfect defense still hasn't been fulfilled when it mattered. Just at a loss. I think every game on our schedule is winnable outside of Clemson, but Wake just proved all you have to do is make Hooker a passer and we won't win. Palmetto Hokie | 1 month 5 days # ^ Every game is losable too vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # Say what you want but Hooker was easily the weakest link today. He was put in a position to succeed and did not. lepakkkkk | 1 month 6 days # ^ 2019 season: 2 INTs Wake Forest 2020: 3 INTs Bragghokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ to a walk on Orion86 | 1 month 6 days # ^ the walk-on was so out of position / so slow that Hooker never saw him Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # We gave up 23 points to an explosive WF team. This loss is squarely on the offense for not being able to score points on one of the worst defenses in the country. I'm over the Fuente experiment. I understand we are stuck for another couple of years. But it's abundantly clear he and his staff cannot string together enough consecutive good games for a full season. We are continuing to slide into mediocrity with the potential of being flat out bad in just a couple of years. This was a hire that Whit missed on vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Players gotta make plays man. They were given multiple opportunities to succeed today. We couldn't complete a pass on prevent defense. That is on the qb. Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ I'm not looking at today in a vacuum. I'm looking at today as a small part of a larger narrative. And today fits well within that narrative. Folks can refuse to see that if they want to. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ There was no revelation today. Talent wins. We didn't look very talented today. Turner isn't right and a tight end cannot carry an offense. The qb did not make routine passes today. You can be mad at the coaches of you want, but be mad at them for not getting better talent on the field. Also, the defense is so bad that the coaches are clearly making stupid offensive decisions just to attempt to protect the other side. Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ Also, the defense is so bad that the coaches are clearly making stupid offensive decisions just to attempt to protect the other side. Seriously?? vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Yes. There is no fucking reason to be so reliant on running the ball except to keep your defense on the sideline. Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ I'm not sure I'm following all of your logic... However, today defense was not the issue. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Agree. Not blaming defense for anything today. But I do think the defense is a liability and it has affected how we have built the offense. I said last week that we needed to learn to throw the ball. Sadly this week proved it. Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ I completely agree with this. But we are in year 5 of the Fuente era and we still don't have a QB that can execute the offense effectively? Again, the issues go far beyond what happened today. The loss at WF today isn't a problem, it's a symptom IMO. Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Fuente is a.QB Whisperer, Donchaknow VTCC-69 | 1 month 5 days # ^ In Fuente's defense, he still has not had a first string quarterback be able to play two full years in a row. It is hard to be consistent in a passing game when a team lacks that continuity. I have yet to see the game (I was depending on Hulu for coverage this year ... not the last mistake I'll make this year I'm sure) and I'm not sure I want to but through the game Lasiter was saying that has been long said of Hooker that he has a tendency to over-throw this receivers. It is painful to say but if the wf coaches saw that and put their db's in a place to make the interception, kudos to them. Part of Bud Foster's reputation was built on shutting down a run game and forcing the other team into passing. It was fun when he was doing it to the other team - not so much when it is us. dcwilson40 GT SUCKS AT PASSING | 1 month 4 days # ^ Recruiting and developing starting QB's and depth is part of the Head Coach's job VTCC-69 | 1 month 4 days # ^ I agree those are part of the coaches' job though I am honestly not sure if it is specifically Coach Fuente's job but ultimately he is responsible. However, there are things that he has no real control over. The staff can make set up rules and structures to limit behavioral issues (including COVID exposure), but ultimately the players have to live by these rules. Injuries are also beyond a coach's control. As far as developing players, I tend to believe that is a lot harder and more complicated that most of us believe. If it was straight forward / easy, then a first round draft player would never turn out to be a bust. Yes that illustration is from the pros but I believe the point is still valid. If the pros miss, then the college level staffs (with considerably less money and more restrictions) are going to also. OHokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ I've blasted the defense all year, but they weren't the problem today. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ They are a problem though ltrepeter2000 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Three 4th down conversions and allowing a running back to get 5 yards with four guys hanging on them....defense wasnt the only problem but it also wasnt good when it mattered Chris TEEMING WITH INTEL | 1 month 6 days # ^ They never looked great, but 23 on the board was a number everyone on this board would have taken if offered as a guarantee this week, and every person who took it would have been confident that would mean a VT win. Tough moments, but they held up their end of the bargain in light of expectations. 16 points against this Wake defense was the big disappointment in my opinion. This was a bizarro game in a lot of ways. jimbojew5 | 1 month 6 days # ^ I've been pretty defensive of Fuente but I'm kinda with you now. To be fair, I can't really point to another coach hired by a big name program in 2015 that I think has killed it at their program (maybe Matt Rhule?). Maybe Matt Campbell at Iowa State? Maybe it is just time to lower expectations for the program, hope for 8-9 wins a year, regular beatings of UVA and the occasional competitive game with a top tear team. hokietrax | 1 month 5 days # ^ Tom Herman was in our sights back then. He hasn't "killed" Texas, but 25-15 ain't exactly getting it done. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 6 days # ^ Progress is not linear, and (as of today, subject to change in the future), this team is better than it was a year ago, and the program is the healthiest it has been in a while... I still have my concerns, but (statistically speaking) this game appears to be an anomaly (again - for now), and I imagine this performance (3 turnovers limiting us to 2 TDs) will not be repeated by these players. VT_Fencer JET SWEEP YPC 8.7 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Got the WTF loss out of the way. Nowhere to go but up now! Edit: lmao y'all out here DVing actual jokes. Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ Folks downvoting like they're getting paid tonight. Get your opinions out of here! Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ I love the optimism. However, for me, Fuente hasn't shown enough to suggest that this game is an anomaly. We'll see next week when we play a very explosive team who shut down the ND offense. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 6 days # ^ It's hardly optimism. This game was lost due turnovers. Prior to today's game, HH has attempted 190 throws, connecting on >60%, for 16 TDs and 2 INTs. TODAY, he threw 51% completions, 1 TD, and 3 INTs. Based on the data we have so far, I'm not sure how you can say this isn't an outlier. That doesn't mean I don't have concerns about the program (the program, not this team). The team's problems (turnovers and penalties) CAN be fixed overnight. The issues with the program will take time. I don't think there's (m)any coaches (who we could reasonably land) who can fix them faster than Fuente. Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ I think this game was lost by more than turnovers (OL failing to block, HH not hitting WRs, WRs not blocking, dumb penalties, inability to stretch the field), but I'll bite here. HH has a very small sample size as it relates to the downfield passing game. He showed his limitations when pressed last year in the UVA game. Those limitations still exist (French highlights this regularly). And some of that may very well be due to a lack of practice this year. I think he will continue to grow. And while it's certainly possible this teams problems can be fixed overnight (notwithstanding the defense which we all know is a work in progress), I'm not entirely convinced we won't have another WTF loss this season. This team has a whole lot of potential, however now with 2 losses (one to a middling ACC program) a shot at Clemson in the ACCCG is all but lost - and this is exactly where we all expected to be this year. This is Fuente's team. These are Fuente's players. He crushed it during the COVID saga. I applaud him for that. Now the team is healthy and WF gets the best of him. That doesn't mean I think he absolutely can't get things turned around, I'm just not sure what the path forward is to get VT passed being a mediocre ACC Coastal program. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 6 days # ^ I agree with most of what you're saying. I have faith that the blocking will return to what it was the first few games just because that sample size is larger. I too have my concerns with HH, and I think you raise a good point about a lack of spring practice stunting his growth as a qb. That said, I'm not ready to give up on this season. I think this team can still play some good football. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ I don't put what happened today on the coaches. I do tend to be optimistic as well. However, I think there is a truth that fans have been struggling with; that truth is that Hendon Hooker is a flawed quarterback. He struggles with consistent accuracy and absolutely struggles in passing downs. The defensive game plan today will be repeated. Nearly every throw of the normal 60+% completions are schemed for HH. So, I am hopeful HH continues to progress but I would not bet on it at the moment. The coaches are going to have to create a passing game enough to force defenses to drop out of the 8 man box because HH Doesn't appear to be making them pay by picking apart man coverage. Disclaimer: the receiving group is not in great shape right now. HH will look better with improvement there flaws or not. Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ Disclaimer: the receiving group is not in great shape right now. HH will look better with improvement there flaws or not. While no one can control injuries, we have recruited the WR position like crazy and still don't have a group of guys who can get separation downfield. That isn't a knock on how hard the guys we currently have are working, its simply an observation. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Yeah it is strange how many scholarships we have thrown at the receiver position only to come up with a few hits. Tre is a hit but is obviously not himself. hokiecamel 🦃🐫 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Agreed. I was very down on the defense throughout the game/in the game thread, but at the end of the day, if they hold a team to less than 30 we should win every single time. This loss is squarely on the offense and partially special teams HokieeikoH | 1 month 5 days # ^ Squarely on the offense? Look. Our defense is so bad that people are just ignoring it at this point. The defense is putrid. Yesterday the offense was garbage as well - with hooker truly abysmal - the lack of comments on how poorly hooker performed is staggering. Dumb penalties and turnovers were the biggest issues for the offense. Not play calling. The most legit criticism of the coaching staff is that the players were flat and the coaches are poor recruiters. That's why they will be Fired if they are fired. There were in Fact some brilliant play calls. Hooker can't pass when he has to. That simple. It's easy to loft the ball to Mitchell when there's no one within 10 yards. VTJ12 | 1 month 5 days # ^ I was watching some clips of the game this morning, and as you mentioned, Hooker was extremely bad yesterday. His inaccuracy throwing the ball was alarming. You just watch him throw sometimes and the mechanics are so bad. Footwork, not squaring his shoulders, timing of the routes and anticipating receivers coming out of breaks, throwing off the back foot, etc. Very raw mechanics which is inexcusable at this point. Also did not put any touch on the ball in several instances which led to overthrows. And the decision making is also alarming. Just lobbing it up to Mitchell in double coverage. Hooker is a very capable QB when the run game is clicking and we can scheme guys open off of misdirection and play action. But when we are forced to throw the ball down the field, he is a major liability. Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 5 days # ^ I hope this was an aberration for Hooker, because if he really is this bad, I mean we're looking at yet another year with just plain subpar play from the QB. Evans had a great year, but other than that, we've been on the struggle bus at QB since Fuente took over, and given that was supposed to be the one area he excelled at as a coach, it would be very, very concerning if Hooker is fundamentally flawed as a passer, too. VTJ12 | 1 month 5 days # ^ We have 3 QBs who each bring something different to the table, but I'm not sure we have anyone who is a legit threat to push the football down the field and beat the defense through the air. Quincy has a cannon but realistically he is very limited in the passing game. Hooker's mechanical issues make him a very erratic passer, and BB just doesn't have the arm strength. Teams are going to load the box and dare us to beat them through the air. We can't be one-dimensional. tjbhokie | 1 month 5 days # ^ Put Knox kadum in there then vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 5 days # ^ To my untrained eye, he is fundamentally flawed from a mechanics standpoint. That includes running and passing. It is like his body parts have minds of their own. He does much better on methodical timing plays where practice repetition keeps him on track. This isnt a shock to anybody watching Hooker play closely. His passing success has been a result of his running success. In turn, the ability to have some success passing opens up running even more. So here we are. Wake didn't believe it and said I dare you beat me with that arm. HokieinFLA | 1 month 5 days # ^ It was all concerning..everything was bad..timing, mechanics, decison-making...all bad. He looked like a Freshman out there. Which brings me back to the drum that I can't stop beating.....What on Earth are we paying Brad Cornelson for????? He hasn't developed any QB since he has been here... -Evans was what he was -Jackson and Willis never made significant strides -QP clearly can't handle the passing game now 3+ years in -Hooker flashes, but lacks consistency and having mechanical issues also 3+ years in -Burmeister is the same guy he was at Oregon..2 years later under the "tutelage" of BC. Cornelson is the Trifecta. As an OC he is a below average playcaller and gameplanner. He has done nothing that deserves merit as a QB Coach. And he's a poor Recruiter. For those with the VT doesn't have the "resources" argument....Resources are what you make of them. When you employ coaches that are underperformers in every aspect of their job you are wasting resources..that's not VTs or Babcock's fault..its Fuente's. Vtkey | 1 month 5 days # ^ I seem to remember some on this site clamoring for Hooker or bust a few weeks ago. These guys are all capable quarterbacks. They haven't had the breakthrough we're looking for, and any of them are prone to the occasional bad outing. We're going to need breakout performances from multiple players to win in every game. Maybe it's harder than it looks. tjbhokie | 1 month 5 days # ^ In a way, I'm glad that was exposed as baseless optimism. Hooker and Herbert can be exceptional, but they cannot carry the team alone, and they certainly can't mask our coaching deficiencies when Hooker still needs development. VTJ12 | 1 month 5 days # ^ If anything, you could argue Jackson and Willis both regressed somewhat over the course of their tenure here. Also with how simplistic our passing game concepts are, I worry how we will attract a legit NFL caliber talent at QB for the foreseeable future. We seem to end up with a lot of projects that have some upside but flaws we can't seem to coach out of them. Our system is a lot of one read and scramble with very simple routes. Our go-to third and long play is lob up a fade or QB scramble drill. Until we can make teams consistently pay for loading up on the run, we will struggle when the run game can't get into a rhythm. Vtkey | 1 month 5 days # ^ I'm not sure Jackson or Willis were ever going to make it as quarterbacks at the highest level. Jackson didn't improve at Maryland, either, and isn't playing QB in the NFL. Willis was a bit boom or bust, and never quite seemed to get to that place where he knew where all the pieces were on the field. goodbadugly | 1 month 5 days # ^ I think individual play design by Cornelson is pretty good at getting someone open. However, all your criticisms are spot on. While the offense is stronger overall and I believe this style of offense can be successful here, the QB play and WR route running in the passing game is not developing. In fact, as you mentioned, we are regressing. hokiecamel 🦃🐫 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Yes, the defense is bad. They somehow kept Wake under 30 pts. That's realistically the most we can expect from them outside of forcing turnovers. The offense lost this game. Vtkey | 1 month 5 days # ^ We lost by 7 points. To try and blame that loss on one aspect of the game without detailed analysis is unconvincing, and to say "well, we know they're bad" is a cop-out. If you're going to make comments like that, show your analysis. The team is going to make mistakes - they've done it every week. They need more good plays than bad on both sides of the ball. I'm expecting improvement in every facet of the game every week. I see plenty of room for it on both sides of the ball. Anything short of that is a let down. Edit: sorry, didn't mean to be confrontational. I was just trying to point out that we probably need to be constructive in our criticism, and there's a lot of room for improvement. hokiecamel 🦃🐫 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Yes, agreed, defense needs to improve at a fundamental level, tackling etc... The new system can be a semi reasonable excuse, but tackling should be good regardless. Yes, losing by seven points and putting 100% of the "blame" on one aspect is short sighted. If one or two of ten plays went different VT probably would've pulled out the win. I'm more disappointed in the offense because their A,B,C grade game is a higher caliber then the Defense's. I'd give both of them C's for how they played but rating them on the expectations curve, I'd give the defense a B and the offense a C-maybe even a D+. Palmetto Hokie | 1 month 5 days # ^ Took me awhile but beginning to agree with you. On the other hand, almost every team in the ACC except Clemson could say same thing. hokie07ME RATHER BE A HOKIE | 1 month 6 days # We seemed cursed that game. 07Hokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ upvote for Rocco APrimusHokie | 1 month 6 days # Ima go listen to Hurt by NIN for the next 4 hours😭 HorseOnATreadmill | 1 month 6 days # So who is excited for the Louisville game next week? Anyone? .... Back2VT SNOOK WHISPERER | 1 month 6 days # ^ Do we get a head start of 10 points? Will Cornelson be fired by that time? If either of those answers are "no", then mine is just "oh shit...." Nate23VT | 1 month 6 days # ^ Louisville? Is that our OOC game? papilgee4evaeva | 1 month 6 days # ^ Might as well be, with how many times we've played them recently. hokienator 🏈🏀⚽🏒🎣⛳🏹🎮🛶🦃🦃 | 1 month 6 days # Gave up 6 points in the second half and still couldnt get a win this one's squarely on the offense but the three picks were killer. VPIhokieME RECOVERING PESSIMIST | 1 month 6 days # ^ this one's squarely on the offense but and the three picks were killer. FTFY CatticusFinch | 1 month 6 days # Since I couldn't watch on Youtube TV I'll just pretend we had a bye week. Bad day at the office, excited to watch the team put up 45+ against Louisville or Miami LifetimeHokie12 FALCON SMASH 🍺 | 1 month 6 days # 2012 to now made me mostly numb to this. 2016 was a fun interruption though. OHokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ Unfortunately this is regression to the mean for this program. 1993-2011 was on outlier period. This is more what VT is and will be going forward. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 6 days # ^ It has more to do with the rest of college football than VT. Hokieflyguy | 1 month 6 days # ^ Truth hurts. Ow. reesejenks520 PROBABLY NONSENSE | 1 month 6 days # I gotta go host a fucking party now and I'm crushed. Hokieflyguy | 1 month 6 days # ^ Party during a pandemic? Fire up the Ronavirus 29 thread! reesejenks520 PROBABLY NONSENSE | 1 month 6 days # ^ Hosting 2 other people. But we've got a ton of food and the theme is harry potter ... So party/get together? Lol nothing big Hokieflyguy | 1 month 5 days # ^ Sounds bigger than any event I attend these days. I'd love to go to a 3-4 person get together, though the Harry Potter theme would be over my head gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 5 days # ^ pls no PhantomJB93 | 1 month 6 days # One of those games that just really makes you question where we're going with Fuente. He's clearly not a complete garbage coach, the program isn't a complete dumpster fire, but the lows are just so much lower and so much more frequent than any highs we achieve. It really always feels like one step forward and two steps back every year since he got here. VTCC-69 | 1 month 5 days # ^ the lows are just so much lower and so much more frequent than any highs we achieve. Fan expectations are often so outside of reality that it is hard to stay grounded in reality. We see flashes of greatness and we start believing we are destined for the playoffs. Wake out-played us in this game. We don't like it but the world is not going to end tonight. Heck, wasn't it just a month ago a lot of us were gnashing our teeth about the prospect of not even having a season. VT is playing football, my friends. Life is good. VT_Warthog | 1 month 5 days # ^ Fan expectations are often so outside of reality that it is hard to stay grounded in reality. I think most folks expectations are to compete for a spot in the ACCCG. Not sure how that's outside of reality. Chris TEEMING WITH INTEL | 1 month 5 days # ^ Yeah my expectations are to compete in the Coastal (normal years) and not lose to the 66th most talented roster in the country with only 16 points scored. A defense that gave up 45 to the Bailey Hockman version of NC State. Rayo | 1 month 5 days # ^ We could've scored close to that with our offensive output yesterday is the thing. 433 total yards of offense. Two redzone turnovers and two missed field goals were part of it. Getting held to field goals 5 times after crossing midfield was another part of it. But the offensive performance as a whole was productive, just not where it mattered. I am particularly confused why we always seemed to pass on Wake's side of the field. Run the damn ball and get in the endzone. You know, like we did against Duke and State and BC. And even against Carolina when we scored 45. Koastal Kings | 1 month 4 days # ^ I think those expectations should have been squashed a couple years ago, my friend. Assuming you base your expectations in reality that is. VTCC-69 | 1 month 5 days # ^ I agree that not everyone's expectations are outside of reality but I did say "often". Looking back through articles, leading up to the game, the sentiment seemed to be along the lines of "we beat bc, so we should be able to run up the score on everyone" or "If Hooker was our quarterback, we would have beaten unc", or "all we have to do is give the ball Khalil Herbert" 20 times so he can rack up another 200+ yard game. [Not exact quotes, obviously] Those are examples of expectations that have proven to be outside of reality. Like everyone on this site, I want the Hokies win and win a lot. I will be back cheering for them this coming weekend. Go Hokies! VT_Warthog | 1 month 4 days # ^ Those expectations have been set by the coaching staff though. We were told five years ago when Fuente came that this is the offense we'd get. Sure, it can sputter from time to time. I don't really understand what you're trying to say. That we should not expect to beat teams with less talent? I'm so tired of coming on this website only to hear my expectations are too lofty when the bar is already set so low. Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 4 days # ^ I'm so tired of coming on this website only to hear my expectations are too lofty when the bar is already set so low. And only to get berated, mocked, downvoted, and shamed if you dare bring it up. Stockleybridge | 1 month 6 days # Think it's time to throw back a few several and watch the Borat movie. Maybe we'll get football figured out again at some point. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 6 days # ^ Borat 2 is fantastic. Bragghokie | 1 month 6 days # I'm too old to get super pissed about this. Bummed about the loss. We could have won. Lost opportunities and mistakes cost us this one. Burn the program down fire the coaches and get all new players....hopefully someone will be happy with that. On to next week. Get over it. OHokie | 1 month 6 days # This site's going to burn down when we lose to Liberty this season. IfishVTIam | 1 month 6 days # ^ Heaven forbid! Nate23VT | 1 month 6 days # ^ You joke (I think?) but I am reallllly worried about that reality now. Liberty is 6-0 and has a bye week next week. We lose to Louisville and that will be Liberty's biggest game in program history against a defeated team. Ugh, it hurts to even think about. OHokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ I wasn't joking, unfortunately. I'd put money down on Liberty at this point. Nate23VT | 1 month 6 days # ^ I'd put money down on Liberty at this point. Uh oh, TKP might break. 101WildTurkeys | 1 month 6 days # ^ Not gonna lie, if that line is a TD or more, I'm taking Liberty all day. Considering how they are playing, it'll probably lower, but I'd entertain it if its like 4.5 or 5 VT_Fencer JET SWEEP YPC 8.7 | 1 month 6 days # ^ It's important to note that Liberty has beaten: WKU who beat Chattanooga by a field goal today FIU who got held to 156 yards by an FCS school Friday FCS North Alabama 0-5 UL Monroe 15th in the ACC Syracuse 1-4 Southern Miss whose coach quit after week 1 Not to be cliché, but they ain't played nobody. hokieguy95 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Take a look at who ODU beat before they put up over 600 yards of offense and 49 points on a Bud Foster. Spoiler alert: They hadn't beaten anyone. 0 - 3 against FIU, Charlotte and, oh yeah......Liberty. Rayo | 1 month 5 days # ^ Go ahead and lose that money then. There were guys last year threatening to throw money down on Furman and Rhode Island so this is nothing new. Liberty has no defense and we'll be the best defense their O has seen all year. Gimme the Hokies by 14+ vsaxena SHOULD BE MORE + | 1 month 6 days # This is what VT football has been for the past 8 years? I can't even remember. It just all runs together. If Whit is ok with this, then I guess its fine. He's gotta be 10x smarter than I am. Joe Lanza PUBLISHER | 1 month 6 days # ^ Yeah this is basically my head state. Right now Tech is an average program and there's not much I can do about it so why get frustrated by something out of my control? ‘11 and ‘12 Hokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ The weird thing about college football is individually this is true but if collectively every alum donated like 50 more bucks is would prop up the program substantially. Nate23VT | 1 month 6 days # ^ True, but most of those alums would rather put that towards 5 months of Netflix content. Sad but true. AZHokie22 | 1 month 6 days # ^ And that Netflix content is way more enjoyable. That's the reality. People now spend money on things that bring them joy. When was the last year that a VT alum could say that watching this football team brings them significant emotional/entertainment value? I can watch the Philadelphia Eagles keep letting me down and it costs me nothing. Then ask them when that value represented a higher ROI on just watching a movie with their wife or kids who couldn't give a crap about a VT win or loss? It's true. But not sad. Watching The Witcher 100 times leaves me satisfied every single time. Watching our team look overmatched and out coached at least 2-3 times a season lately brings me no satisfaction. If VT had Clemson success the ongoing payments to the program would already be in my will. And I remember expecting 10-11 wins a year. But asking new alums to spend good money after bad just doesn't work anymore. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Last week. Nothing I watch on a television is more captivating than even a sucky Hokie team. AZHokie22 | 1 month 6 days # ^ As they say, anecdotes are not evidence. Unfortunately way fewer people feel that way than don't. There really is no argument to be had here. I graduated in 2004 and have given up donating. I can't imagine what newer alums that have never seen this program have actual success feel. This is a VT football blog, and as such a bit of a bubble. I would wager that a lot of our highest earning new graduates havn't been to a single football game in their entire life, and could care less vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Not fighting, honest question: how do you care enough to post on a VT message board but don't care enough to donate or to enjoy the actual victories? It seems if you wanted to get back to our glory days, you would understand the value of donating. AZHokie22 | 1 month 5 days # ^ It's more my financial planning brain than anything. While I understand the value of donating...I also don't trust this particular staff to do much more even with more resources. I don't have confidence that all of a sudden they would get better at game planning or player development just because there are more $$s in the kitty. And donating money just to pay a buyout is something I'm against on principle. Hokieflyguy | 1 month 6 days # ^ Exactly. The Hokie Club could emulate Clemson's IPTAY, but apparently, that is too difficult. HomebrewHokie08 🍺MAKES "BEER" ⚗️🦃 | 1 month 6 days # ^ But I am now questioning my decision to donate. I can't be the only one. This is a game we should win. If I was a student that only knew the last decade of Hokie football, psssh, good luck getting a donation out of me. We are going to be Nebraska, but without the titles. Palmetto Hokie | 1 month 5 days # ^ Average team heading down. Our talent level will start dropping after this year Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 6 days # Old Dominion Duke blowout Virginia Kentucky And now Wake Forest Under Beamer, these kind of losses would have been grounds to burn it all down. But under Fuente? Shit, it's just a disappointingly expected Week 5 result. Our standards are so, so low from where they used to be. Sadly, I don't ever see us getting back to where we once were. And the last few years have cemented that as a cold hard fact. OHokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ Nope. Those days are over. This is a middle of the pack program in a weak division of a weak conference. The bowl streak ends in two years. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Get out of here with that bullshit, acting like Beamer didn't have horrible losses. Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 6 days # ^ He absofuckinglutely had horrible losses, but when those happened, it was literally 'burn everything to the fucking ground, a program like this should absolutely not lose to James fucking Madison, are you shitting me. Fire Stiney tonight, don't let him leave the building while employer's But today? Nah man. Hard to act like that when this kind of loss is kind of the norm. Fuente is annually losing to shit programs. Beamer did this shit once every 4 years. It's annual now. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Find me teams that dont lose to underdogs. Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Lol Ok I'm done here. Old Dominion, Duke, Virginia, Kentucky, Wake Forest. It's the who's who of fucking garbage ass programs, but please keep making excuses. Vtkey | 1 month 6 days # ^ Yeah, JMU and Wake Forest shouldn't be competing with us. Oh, wait, those were Beamer losses. All we can really say is that we haven't turned any kind of corner yet. Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Already addressed, but don't let that get in the way of the circling of wagons Vtkey | 1 month 6 days # ^ I'm not circling any wagon or defending anyone. We are absolutely not where we want to be. The reality, though, is that for most games we have an offense now. Chris TEEMING WITH INTEL | 1 month 6 days # ^ To be fair, he already acknowledged both of those. Vtkey | 1 month 6 days # ^ To be fair, we lost to Wake Forest under Beamer, and as I recall it was pretty embarrassing at the time. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ You are an emotional wreck over everything. Riddle me this, if the hall of fame tandem of beamer and foster has a riddled resume of what the fuck losses, who do you think wouldn't (at VT)? The coaching hate is just so damn tiring. Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 6 days # ^ I'm just calling it like it is. Sorry if my opinions personally offend you MilkymanVT | 1 month 6 days # ^ Kansas, East Carolina x 2, Maryland, Duke, Boston College, TEMPLE HorseOnATreadmill | 1 month 6 days # ^ I was going to say that Penn State has a really solid history of beating teams they should. I was going to say that 15 minutes ago. StineyDraw48 | 1 month 6 days # ^ You must have burned the 2001-2003 seasons from your memory. Rosslyn Hokie | 1 month 6 days # Props to Wake. We drop 3 hunj rushing on everyone and they shut it down completely. What happened to our mauling O-Line? Weak sauce. Didn't open up shit. Looking forward to Frenchy's analysis. Beat LOLUVA is our only saving grace. HokieeikoH | 1 month 6 days # ^ Clawson always plays us stingy. They were clearly more fired up. 5_Star_Commenter | 1 month 6 days # I feel like I'm becoming apathetic about VT football, it's frustrating because there doesn't seem to be a fix that we can point to in the near term either. The program feels due for a hard reset from the top down. Whit/Sands need to determine if they want a strong football program or not, it just feels like we've lost our focus from the very top of the house. Also, I need to never hear those commentators again. bluehokie2006 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Play-by-play guy went to Wake. I actually kind of liked the analyst. Especially when play-by-play wanted to say WF got a first down when the player stepped out of bounds two yards shy, and at best extended a yard on the sideline. And the analyst was all "No, he didn't." HokieRif | 1 month 6 days # HokieeikoH | 1 month 6 days # I think the title of frenchs article could well be "I told you so". He's been harping on the fact that teams were going to triple down on the run and make hooker win with his arm. Hooker flat our failed in that regard. I mean it was pathetic. Poor decisions and then when the guy was open his accuracy was horrible. He's always looked good with a lead but man coming back from a hole is seemingly impossible at this point. We have some serious trouble at qb. Yes there were other issues, but he was the biggest culprit today. Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ I think we also have some issues at WR. The route combinations appear very simple, and we don't have a WR who can get off of press coverage. HokieinFLA | 1 month 6 days # ^ Definitely. One of the reasons the passing game is so dependent on Mitchell. Need him to get mismatches on LBs because the WR corps can't get separation--havent done it against any opponent this year. Not an excuse for Hooker's performance today, but the WR are not a strength of this offense. vtandy | 1 month 6 days # Meh. Like it was said numerous times above. We're an average (at best) team. This is what average teams do. WHS | 1 month 6 days # Honestly Wake Forest isn't an awful team so this doesn't rank up there with losses like ODU and the Duke schalacking from last year. I think the biggest thing is the lack of development of the program, Fuente is known for being a QB guru but it always seems like QB is the link on offense that limits us. Hooker is a great runner and a far superior passer to Burmeister and Patterson but its tough to drop him back not on play action and sling it around. And our DT play has been a weak link for years but we seem to not bring any of our top targets in year after year. I understand that those are the two most in demand positions in recruiting, but our lack of successes there have me scratching my head. Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # ^ this doesn't rank up there with losses like ODU and the Duke schalacking from last year. I think the biggest thing is the lack of development of the program, Fuente is known for being a QB guru but it always seems like QB is the link on offense that limits us. All of this. There are a bunch of folks who don't understand this. Today wasn't nearly as bad as those other losses, but it certainly is another marker showing us that Fuente isn't building this program in the way we had all hoped. Hokie2013 | 1 month 6 days # ^ yeah today was a close game between 2 mid tier acc programs. VT shoulda coulda woulda won if they did anything right, but wake did nearly everything right PhantomJB93 | 1 month 6 days # A lot of talk about Hooker being a huge reason for the L today and I have to agree. But I also feel like this was his first truly awful game and it came in like his 10th start. There's 9 games to the contrary that say he's at the very least a capable QB and still potentially much more than that. HokieeikoH | 1 month 6 days # ^ Amen. Let's see next week you know. The entire team looked flat imo. ltrepeter2000 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Hewitt didnt look flat ....but.... WHS | 1 month 6 days # ^ I think Hooker is a very capable QB, but he's not good enough to cover some of our warts if that makes sense. He's limited in intermediate passing imo and if our running game isn't clicking it makes it tough. He's a solid runner and and has a good touch on deep balls but he's not going to be consistent on those moving the chains type throws. SoupHokie09 | 1 month 6 days # Good thing this season doesn't really mean much. Makes not caring about losses pretty easy and enjoying wins roughly the same. NitWhitt 🍪 🐶 COOKIES 4 LIFE! | 1 month 6 days # META: Joe just decided to start charging per click Giles County Will | 1 month 6 days # Hooker was not good today. However the receivers could get no separation and ran lousy routes. Tackling was bad and beating blocks worse yet. The team was not ready to play as a whole. Vtkey | 1 month 6 days # I was really mad that Hulu let me down and I couldn't watch this game. But now I realize that they were only trying to save my eyes from having to watch it, and keep my blood pressure within reasonable limits. pastjo | 1 month 6 days # I knew we were in trouble when Ashby got the sack in the first half and there was no celebration by the defense. Combined with the utter lack of discipline in key situations makes this loss very hard to accept. 99Hokie4Life | 1 month 5 days # ^ I literally observed that and thought the same thing on that exact play. HorseOnATreadmill | 1 month 5 days # ^ Something else I saw a few times on defense was the posturing. It seemed like we were more than willing to try to get into guys faces and talk at them. ThunderingHokie DID WVU LOSE? | 1 month 5 days # ^ This. I went to the Marshall game yesterday. It was cold, cloudy, and kind of boring (20-9 was the final score). Marshall got a rather routine sack on first down, and the entire defense celebrated it. Cornell Brown and JC Price are both defensive line coaches. Look at the energy the team showed back when they played. It just seems we aren't that excited to play at times. The energy we showed when Waller had that first INT against Miami last year should be the energy all the time. It's just weird that we seem disinterested at times. I wanna be AOE | 1 month 6 days # Now that game sucked. Everyone who thought last week's 40-14 win was crappy got reminded of what a real debacle looks like. H_ighlander_okie SWEETAMERICANTHUNDER | 1 month 6 days # Going across the ESPN bottom line: 6th loss as a ranked team to an unranked team under Fuente. Yikes. PhantomJB93 | 1 month 6 days # ^ More inexcusable losses than years coached. I'm sure ESPN already catching on that this is the biggest takeaway from our game is good news for our national perception moving forward. NitWhitt 🍪 🐶 COOKIES 4 LIFE! | 1 month 6 days # ^ It's called Clemsoning Fuenteing Vtkey | 1 month 5 days # ^ That may be more an indication that we've been overranked at times. After watching this team this season, do you think they should have been ranked 19? APrimusHokie | 1 month 6 days # Think about this. We are 3-0 on the ACC network but 0-2 on different channels. Conconidence? I think not. APrimusHokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ WE NEED SPRUTLE COMMERCIAL ENERGY GOD DAMN IT! BullCityHokie | 1 month 6 days # At least we didn't lose to Rutgers. Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 6 days # ^ At this point you have to wonder if the reason is that they just haven't had the opportunity VTacajoe | 1 month 6 days # ^ Or Temple... HammerTime STOP. | 1 month 6 days # What the hell is the point in watching these games? Why should I watch Justin Fuente continue to fail us? Recruiting sucks He's not the QB whisperer we were promised His OC is unfit for big time football JHam's defense look abysmal Worst COVID-19 contact tracing issues in FBS He's shut off access to the team What is there to like about this guy and his program? Why should I continue to give money unless it's specifically tied to Fuente's buyout? I don't know what the hell I have to look forward to with VT Football, but the ceiling used to be 10 wins, competing for ACC Titles, and a shot at a major bowl game. He's had plenty of time to rebuild, and he hasn't. I watched a poorly coached, unmotivated, soft team today. I don't want to support that kind of program. VTJ12 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Yeah I mean at this point, it is what it is. This staff is not going to get VT football back into ACC, much less national contention. Good teams don't come out flat and lose to teams like Wake. Since the 2018 season, our overall win percentage has held right around 60ish percent. We have peaked under this staff, and you're just seeing the law of averages play out. They will consistently get you 7-8 win seasons at best with this level of coaching and recruiting, and middle-of-the road results in the W/L column. Until VT gets fed up enough as a university and athletic department and decides we want to be serious about competing in football again, this is the ceiling. And I'm not talking just about money/resources, I'm talking staff that can seriously elevate this program. Not much we can do about it either, which is maddening and makes me almost numb to it all at this point. HokieinFLA | 1 month 6 days # ^ Yep...this Staff isn't going to get you consistently more than 7-8 wins. They are what they are at this point. The question is..what are our expectations going forward? Being a middle-of-pack ACC team and dumping games to Wake isn't exciting for the majority of the fanbase. You can pack up the Drive for 25 with performances like this. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 6 days # ^ Recruiting sucks Far and away the biggest (IMO only major) problem with current staff. That said, it's a huge problem. He's not the QB whisperer we were promised I actually think he's pretty good at coaching QBs. Of the 3 QBs who have played on a team other than VT (JJ, RW, BB), they've all looked significantly better at VT than their other stops. His OC is unfit for big time football With the exception of 2017, the offense has improved every year under Corny. JHam's defense look abysmal What were you expecting?! We implemented a new scheme without spring practice due to covid. Did you think he'd come in and everything would go just swimmingly? If so your expectations (for this season's defense) were unreasonable. Worst COVID-19 contact tracing issues in FBS Confirmation bias. Florida and ND were both worse off. Why should I continue to give money unless it's specifically tied to Fuente's buyout? If fans refuse to give money now, it sends a message to future coaches that the program isn't supported well enough to compete. Say what you will about Texas, Tennessee, and other under achieving programs, but everyone knows that those fans will do whatever it takes to win. The same cannot be said about VT. 919hokie | 1 month 6 days # It was over when we punted on 4th and 1 on the first drive. VT_Warthog | 1 month 6 days # There's no need to burn the site down. At this point, we could all see this coming. Either this week or next (or both?). We're a middling ACC program. There's no excuses at this point. This is our bed, it's time to lay in it. KopHokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ You forgot to say that we wet our own bed today and now we've got to lay in it...ugh krak_t | 1 month 6 days # I want a refund for my spurtle. RichDMD | 1 month 6 days # Wanna know why Kirk Herbstreit doesn't respect our program? Games like today LowKeyHokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ Kirk doesn't respect us? Where have I been at? Txhokie | 1 month 6 days # Sadly we are stuck with Fuente unless he resigns . VT will not buyout Fuente. Back2VT SNOOK WHISPERER | 1 month 6 days # ^ I think a large part of his problem is Corny. I'd give him another couple years chance if he'd grow a set and fire his buddy. Succinct | 1 month 5 days # ^ You have as much chance of this happening as of subbing in a QB for a struggling QB in any given game. KopHokie | 1 month 6 days # Justin Fuente needs a bro....or manzier if you're so inclined. That is all. Chazz Michael Michaelzz | 1 month 5 days # ^ pretty sure that's manssiere... but not an expert on the French language. boylejc2 | 1 month 6 days # I think there are fair criticisms but jesus there is a lot of reactions here tonight. People saying this team isn't fun when they were memeing the hell out of Herbert for Heisman. Yes, I think it's clear that it's going to take a herculean effort for Fuente to win 10+ games again, but also realize that there aren't a lot of teams that do that. But at the same time look at some schools - blue bloods even - that have a legend fired/retired. Some of them remain successful, some crash harder than us. Look at Texas, Florida State, UCLA, pre-Harbaugh Michigan (even sometimes Harbaugh Michigan), Nebraska... it doesn't always end well. If anything think of Arkansas firing Houston Nutt (a fine coach who wore out his welcome with average-ness). They're on their fifth full time, non interium coach since 2007. We act like this is way easier than it is so often because we we're spoiled by Frank Beamer. VT_Fencer JET SWEEP YPC 8.7 | 1 month 6 days # ^ It is important to remember that getting better isn't a guarantee with coaching changes, and changing coaches because your ceiling isn't where you want it to be could lower your floor instead. VTbandit VT 🦹🏼♂️ | 1 month 6 days # ^ Fine I get this take. But if mediocrity is the path forward at least don't make it a miserable sufferfest. Engage the fans. Have an awesome spring game. Show emotion. Being mediocre and not permitting any (perceived) enjoyment outside of barely televised games on awful networks just isn't worth it. ltrepeter2000 | 1 month 6 days # Bad in all five facets of the game....defense not getting Wake off the field on critical downs and several killer penalties, qb throwing three picks (almost 4) with one in easy FG range and a line that had no fight, FG kicker missing two FG, accounts for the difference, leg for the Aussie punter though. Coaching staff not able to correct course at halftime on either side of the ball and officiating crew that just love their dandelions being on the field. 757EuroHokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ Isn't this the same story every year for a Fuente team? vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ It is the same story for every team not having blue blood talent (and some that do) 757EuroHokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ I feel like Beamer had better years than this without blue chip talent. We are mediocre now, at least we won the ACC from time to time. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Those teams usually had WTF losses and still won the ACC due to being weaker than ever. Those teams don't win the ACC currently. OHokie | 1 month 6 days # FWIW this loss broke OXVT. He deleted his Twitter account over it. VT_Warthog | 1 month 6 days # ^ No real loss there. boylejc2 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Well this legitimately made me happy so thank you Wake Forest, I guess? Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 6 days # ^ And nothing of value was lost AssPocketFullOWhiskey DON'TNEEDNOSTINKING⭐ | 1 month 4 days # ^ He bak. bluehokie2006 | 1 month 4 days # ^ How the hell was this the game that broke him? Unless this is a regular occurance for him? It wasn't like we lost to an FCS or G5 team. And it's not like we were playing poorly and stumbled into a few wins prior to this game. I mean, I could understand if he threw in the towel during November 2018 or after the Duke game last year. Heck, even I gave up on some of those 2018 games. I just don't get the extreme reaction on this specific game. Yes, as a rule we probably should beat Wake Forest at least 95% of the time. And yes, we didn't play very well. But it's not like we were blown out and did absolutely nothing right on the field. VTSnake | 1 month 3 days # ^ Oh no! Anyway... jpcvt | 1 month 6 days # This is the most talented and experienced team that Justin Fuente has had since 2016, and they just lost on the road to Wake. The defense still does not pass the eye test and the offensive decision-making was a major factor today, and in the loss to UNC. There is a weird criticism of the Anti Fuente crowd (ANTIFU?) that these fans expect Tech to go undefeated every year and sign top 10 recruiting classes. That's not the case with me. But I believe that Fuente has consistently failed to meet the moment at Virginia Tech. He struggles against lesser talent consistently, has failed to earn a marquee win in 5 years, and has the program on a pretty steep recruiting nosedive. Fair expectations for this season, which we have been told to wait for since before 2018 as "THE year", were for Tech to be a contender for an ACC title, and possibly a NY6 bowl with the experience that they had returning. The margin of error for that is gone now, and we still have many tough games on the docket. I think you have to look at this season as a failure if those expectations are not met. And I won't be hopeful for my Hokies again until Fuente is no longer at the helm. PhantomJB93 | 1 month 6 days # ^ I'm not saying Fuente needed to go undefeated and make the playoffs this year or it was a bust, but it was absolutely THE critical for him. This was supposed to be the year where he had all of his own guys, with enough experience, to put together a really solid year. With the state of his recruiting it was really critical for him to prove something this year and at least show that he had the program on the right track and that years like the last 2 were going to be the exception and not the norm. It's extremely disappointing to be dropping a game like this in this season in particular - it just makes it feel like nothing is really being built and that this team peaked for the last time with the last of Beamer's guys in 2017. And yeah, COVID threw a wrench in things this year, but I also think this particular game wasn't a game where the problems could be blamed on it. We were thoroughly outplayed and outcoached, it was not a matter of several contributors being out of the lineup or playing on short practice time. VTacajoe | 1 month 6 days # ^ Feels more like a continuation of Beamer's final few seasons...to me anyway! vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Well I didnt know lines were drawn and labels made for the sides. So be it, I guess I am a pro Fuente guy. Contrary to the opinion of many, that does not mean I think he is perfect. I do however strongly believe that a hire that VT can afford is more likely to fail than succeed. Fuente has been borderline but I think he could turn the program into something special IF he can recruit better. That is a big IF, but still probably more likely than succeeding by hitting the reset button. Regardless, he needs to be allowed to finish his contract for the sake of the next contract. VT_Fencer JET SWEEP YPC 8.7 | 1 month 6 days # ^ I'd like to see the investment we've made in additional recruiting resources start to pay dividends in the next class. As long as the product on the field doesn't absolutely implode Fuente should get another couple of classes signed if for no other reason than it would cost too much to press reset given the pandemic related financial strain right now. morange92 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Commenting late, but going to give my take in response to yours. We are in year 5 of Fuente's program and at best we're going to see a 7-4/6-5 record this year. This isn't Beamer who was trying to create something out nothing and may have needed the 6 years. At this point what you are seeing is what you should be expecting from here on out from Fuente. Fuente's ceiling here is 8-9 wins (that 2016 is looking more and more like an outlier). If you are content with that or don't feel we have the resources to put together 10+ win seasons here and there then i understand wanting to keep him. Expecting him to build something special at this point however is wishful thinking (with all due respect). Heck even if we get back to recruiting classes in the mid-high 20s like he was pulling in at one point, we're looking at what that produces right now. And I'd bet a nickel he'll never have the recruiting acumen to bring in classes better than that at VT. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Recruiting will seal his fate. I doubt a miracle happens at this point to turn the tide. I guess what worries me the most is that I think this staff is getting value from the talent it has, and the next staff is likely to be just as bad recruiting and maybe worse with the Xs and Os. We are in the same place as the vast majority of college football where we are now desperately hoping the next coach will defy the odds and transform the program. 757EuroHokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ We also forget the ACC sucks (except Clemson), like it shouldn't be that hard to win our side if we had a competent team lol Back2VT SNOOK WHISPERER | 1 month 6 days # ^ You hit it on the head in your second paragraph there. With regards to this year being "the year", yes that was true. Until we found out we would no longer have Bud. That's when my excitement over this year declined considerably. MiklsanVT93 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Hold on to "ANTIFU". If this season gets worse I think you will have a hit on your hands. HomebrewHokie08 🍺MAKES "BEER" ⚗️🦃 | 1 month 6 days # ^ No one expects us to go undefeated every year, but we don't expect to get embarrassed by a bottom feeder every year. Frosty's dad | 1 month 4 days # ^ "but we don't expect to get embarrassed by a bottom feeder every year" Sadly, I kind of do. Why I noted in a prior thread that all I really wanted was no more WTF losses this season. Beating someone we are not supposed to would be a big plus, but all I really wanted was to not lose to teams where we are fairly heavily favored. Understand that will happen to everyone now and then (Pitt over Clemson, us over OSU), but I now expect us to do that on a fairly regular basis. ‘11 and ‘12 Hokie | 1 month 6 days # ^ LOL @ Antifu ... Thanks for the laugh tkp I needed that to fall asleep.. goodnight Living4Fall | 1 month 6 days # The teams we want to be competing with (Clemson, Miami, UNC?, ND) all have more talent than VT right now, and we struggle with teams like WF. What will things look like in two years when the seeds we've planted on the recruiting trail begin to sprout? HokieinFLA | 1 month 6 days # ^ Well Mack Brown is old and the Basketball program is the only reason they are successful. Miami is perennially "bak" only to disappoint year after year and ND is also annually overvalued and buoyed by a weak schedule. Clemson..well I got nothing there. Plus, our Staff may not be Recruiting well, but we have the best talent evaluators anywhere. As evidenced by Basham and Newsome, two of the best players in the ACC both leaving our state to develop into stars for other teams. And don't forget, we have Brad Cornelson as our QB coach--an absolute tremendous talent who has an exquisite track record of QB development. /s (if even necessary) HomebrewHokie08 🍺MAKES "BEER" ⚗️🦃 | 1 month 6 days # Welp, there goes the season. It was fun while it lasted. Embarrassing loss full of stupid penalties. 101WildTurkeys | 1 month 6 days # Reading the comments, I'd just like to welcome all the new comers to my beach resort for fans that don't believe in the coaching staff and have realized the program is just gonna be average. After you pass the initial quarantine, feel free to roam the grounds and enjoy the surroundings. Really experience life of watching a game with zero expectations. Get a win? Oh sweet! That's awesome. Think I'll have another mai tai. What's that? We lost, probably embarrassingly, to a team we probably should have beat? Oh well, let's see what's happening down by the beach volleyball courts. Seriously, its freeing. Fuente and Co aren't good. They also aren't "bad". The program under his tenureship is pretty much destined for "meh". Every year they'll land someone between 6 to 8 wins. That's it. Maybe 9 if the ACC is really dreadful or the schedule is loaded up with bad OOC teams. But its not gonna truly contend for any kind of championships. Once you accept that fact, your game day experience are much less stressful. This isn't to say you should be ok with VT Athletics accepting that kind of performance, but for your personal mental health, try it out. Now who wants to go catch some waves? HomebrewHokie08 🍺MAKES "BEER" ⚗️🦃 | 1 month 6 days # ^ Ugggh, I wish, I finally watched the replay and shit went flying across my living room. That was some of the suckiest bunch of suck on this side of sucksville. We looked pathetic. Stack it on Fuente's pile of embarrassments. sirgobblelot | 1 month 3 days # ^ I've been on this beach for 2 years. I honestly just catch the scores, I used to be a die hard, don't plan anything on saturday type of person. This team and coach combo have turned me off from VT football and really college football as a whole. VT cannot compete in it's zipcode on recruiting and is just a boring on field product. I used to get all caught up in wins and losses, now I just don't care. This program will never be at the levels it was again, not because of anything it can control. That is just college football, the haves and the have nots. I mean Hokies used to travel for any Bowl game, now it's kind of sad watching the el-paso bowl with 6 people there. Michael Vick and Beamer were the VT brand, and when Vick sullied the name, and Beamer retired, people stopped caring about VT. Unless they can capture lightning in a bottle again, they will always be mid tier ACC team. Other ACC teams are already caught up and VT has been spiraling down. JRCooke | 1 month 3 days # ^ I can't imagine being this negative, caring this little, and still taking time to post on a message board. gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 3 days # ^ oh that will make people care more. talking about where you're at with your fandom on a message board is incredibly low effort. especially when there are others who feel similarly. I don't really plan my saturdays or my autumns around the schedule anymore either. JRCooke | 1 month 3 days # ^ Yeah, I just don't get it. If I didn't even watch the games or like the sport anymore, you can bet I wouldn't be here. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 3 days # ^ I used to get all caught up in wins and losses, now I just don't care. I don't think people actually don't care, or they wouldn't be on the please don't burn the site down posting comments. I don't believe you don't care or you wouldn't moderate the please don't burn the site down threads. Part of adulting is that we don't get to program life around Hokie kickoffs anymore. The Hokie fanbase went through an explosion of growth in the late 90s early 00s. Those kids are in their 30s 40s now. The fanatic level can be reignited though. I have seen it firsthand with Clemson friends. I do get tuned off by rampant opinions of how horrible this team is considering last week we were sharing heisman campaign articles and epic offensive statistics. It is Tuesday now, lets turn our attention to Louisville. gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 3 days # ^ I didn't say I don't care, but the level of emotional investment I have in tech football is way less than it was 5 years ago. I care about the community around TKP more than I care about tech football at this point lol I Miss Tyrod | 1 month 3 days # ^ way less than it was 5 years ago. Hmmm... What happened ~5 years ago I wonder? 🤔 /s (kinda lol) gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 3 days # ^ pretty good correlation to when I left campus in summer 2016 is all I'm saying I Miss Tyrod | 1 month 3 days # ^ I too left campus in 2016, so maybe it was actually me being there that kept you so invested... gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 3 days # ^ ....dad? HokieHighVPI03 TYROD DID IT MIKEY | 1 month 6 days # This was such a winnable game. We missed two field goals, gave them three interceptions (2 in the Red zone and 1 granted at the end), had what 12 penalties including 30 yards on one play by Hewitt, missed more tackles that I could count, and the line looked like they were dancing rather than mauling like the previous week. I give Herbert and company credit for making quite a few 3 yard runs out of what could have been losses. The defense did everything they could to keep this in the game and the offense crapped it away. What scares me is when we have to pass hooker made some bad decisions and (correct me if I'm wrong) I saw receivers running wide open on some of those plays. Like a few of you said if you tell me wake only scores 23 points before the game then I say we win easily...but that wasn't the reality. We were undisciplined, inaccurate, and frankly it felt we were unprepared the entire game. Luckily we got the nice touchdown to Mitchell as he was uncovered but other than that it was an ugly grind. We will either grow from this disaster like Duke last year or we will struggle to even make a bowl game. I'm more positive that we will correct these things and not rip opponent helmets off after a good stop and hooker will throw to the right guy with a little more confidence and the line will maul rather than dance and hold....the answer will come in 7 days. Despite this choke job...let's go! JBC | 1 month 6 days # A ranked VT team has lost to an unranked team 6 times under coach JF. Hopefully we find a way not to lose games we are supposed to win someday!! Vtkey | 1 month 3 days # ^ I don't know why people keep saying that like it's a new feature under Fuente - it was a signature move under Beamer, too. hokiecamel 🦃🐫 | 1 month 6 days # Was expecting a loss to Clemson, one of UNC/Miami and one WTF loss. Very concerned the WTF loss came this early cause now my expectations have no breathing room till December. TouchdownTech | 1 month 5 days # My 2 cents from the game, Corn and Jafar are the weak links on offense but until funding for the program increases, we can't afford to throw more money at assistant coaches. The oline had their worst game collectively, I think their heads got big with the media attention they have been receiving and Wake straight up whipped them. On defense, this is one of the softest bunches I've watched play defense for the maroon and orange. Ashby looks like a short DT playing LB, he is not athletic and is slowing getting to the ball. We made too many mistakes and they didn't, that's the ball game. gfs_hokie | 1 month 5 days # Unfortunately, we are stuck in a tough spot. We have the football team pointing at the schools higher ups, the higher ups pointing at the fans, and the fans pointing back at both with no one wanting to take the blame. Until that stops this program is going to be stuck on this hamster wheel of mediocrity. (I hesitated to say that because I think I'd take mediocre right now). Until the school and football team buy into each other you won't get the fans back pocket. Nobody wants to give their money to dysfunction. Right now people have 2 options - give to the same homeless guy on the corner swearing he will use the money to turn life around (Virginia tech football). Or some other charity that actually has their stuff together making change and allowing people to see the value in their donation. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 5 days # ^ The minimum hokie club donation comes out to something like $10 a month. Why a very loyal fanbase gives so little is strange. Any reason why is simply an excuse. Palmetto Hokie | 1 month 5 days # ^ Same reason we can't recruit. hokie07ME RATHER BE A HOKIE | 1 month 5 days # It figures that our wtf loss would be to WtF RocketHokie13 🚀🛡️ | 1 month 5 days # Man it is amazing reading some of the hot takes on this site after a loss vs. the discussions the day before. Some of you all are on a serious roller coaster of emotions. As for me, I dont think I'm on either side of the Fuente is good vs. bad discussion. More often than not the truth is somewhere in the middle. I think Fuente is a good coach, but not good enough to overcome some of our disadvantages compared to the big boys and get us over the hump. VTJ12 | 1 month 5 days # ^ I think he's a good guy, solid coach and don't question that he wants to win. But you can't look at yesterday's result and say it was due to disadvantages compared to the big boys and a matter of getting over the hump. We should be beating a program like Wake 10/10 times. We looked flat out unprepared and unmotivated. These are losses you simply can't have at this point in his tenure. But it was scrolling on the ESPN ticker last night that this is his 6th loss as a ranked team vs an unranked team in not yet 5 full seasons. I know we also are at a financial disadvantage compared to the elite teams. But realistically, I think people just want VT to be the best it can be currently. And I don't think we are accomplishing that right now. RocketHokie13 🚀🛡️ | 1 month 5 days # ^ My point is from a resources/geographic location/conference standpoint VT is an average team. Average teams lose to other average teams sometimes, and sometimes they lose to bad teams. Fuente isn't good enough IMO to take what should be an average team and make it a great team. Nor is he really making VT underperform what our situation would dictate, IMO. VT_FB_02 | 1 month 5 days # Really tough loss guys. As someone else said, a winnable game but we kept getting tripped up. The one positive I took away was holding Wake to 110 passing yards and 23 points. If the Hokies' offense had been clicking, I imagine we could have held them to a good bit less. I just remember the D being out on the field for these long, 7 minute drives and being surprised they weren't totally worn out. They also played hard until the final snap which impressed me. Also, if Blackshear hadn't been caught at the last second on that pop pass, that's 7 points and a different game. I hope we're able to get him the ball some more in space. Vtkey | 1 month 5 days # ^ This is true. Winnable game. We gotta start winning all of those. bluehokie2006 | 1 month 5 days # People keep bringing up the 6 losses as a ranked team to unranked teams, so I looked them up. A lot of times when people hear something like that, they think of a crappy team like Rutgers upsetting a top 5 team or something. The highest we were ranked for any of those losses was #13, with most of the rankings in the 17 to 19 range. 2016 Syracuse -- Ranked #17. Played at the house of horrors known as the Carrier Dome. Also Syracuse does have a habit of scaring the top teams in the ACC. How many times have they played Clemson close or beat them? 2016 and 2017 GT -- Ranked #18 and #17. It later became clear that Fuente overthought the Chinballs attack. 2018 ODU -- Ranked #13. Clearly the worst loss of the bunch and no excuse. 2019 uva -- Ranked #24, and uva slid into the rankings at #23 after the game. So it was more of a 24 vs. 26 type of game. It was also the only game we were ranked all season. 2020 WF -- Ranked #19, and currently both teams have the same record. Plus the rankings are all out of sorts this year. I'm not excusing the losses, but I'm just bringing context to the statement. boylejc2 | 1 month 5 days # ^ I think at it's best, the program has been around 20-30th best team since 2016. Don't get me wrong - when things go wrong we are solidly below that margin. But overall, I think that is okay (if not a little frustrating). I'd rather be 8-5 with a chance to be in the ACC title game than blowing up and potentially bottoming out. People can disagree, and that is okay. But let's look at some of the historically good teams that don't have over a ten year bowl streak: Auburn, Iowa, Miami (FL), Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan, Notre Dame, USC, UCLA, Texas, Oregon, Michigan State, Florida... I'm sure there are more, but I think that is a solid list. Point being - it is extremely hard to consistently win even six games a year, and we've been doing that for a long time. ‘11 and ‘12 Hokie | 1 month 5 days # ^ What about Furman where we got bailed out by an on side kick technicality? I know we weren't ranked but that was almost the worst disaster of them all. bluehokie2006 | 1 month 5 days # ^ What about it? That is not one of the games we're discussing here. ThunderingHokie DID WVU LOSE? | 1 month 5 days # ^ You can add context to anything and paint a prettier picture. Five years is a rather large sample size. This is who we are. We will look good a couple weeks and sneak into the top 25, only to get brought crashing down to earth in games like this. We will probably look really good against Louisville and beat a top 25 Liberty team to re-enter the polls only to lose to unranked Pitt or UVA and make that number seven. ashore13 🍺🖖🦃🦃🦃 | 1 month 5 days # This loss reminded me of the Syracuse and GT games in 2016. The team played sloppy and unfocused football against a team we were more talented than. But, the other team was clearly more motivated and came in with a good gameplan. It's frustrating that this keeps happening - if course it is. But, even in a fun season these sorts of losses happen to every program that isn't elite. I have a really tough time pinning Fuente down and I'm not sure if he's the answer as HC - and this is his fifth season! But, these losses happen everywhere. To elevate the program these losses have to stop, though. bluehokie2006 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Part of the problem is that we can't seem to get a year without some significant factor affecting the season. Whether it's the actual coaching transition, the last remnants of the old regime causing problems, major injuries, or COVID. HokieDoug96 | 1 month 5 days # ^ I'd argue these losses happen to even elite teams. Clemson has the occasional loss to teams they should really beat (Syracuse and Pitt the past few years), the year we were the only loss for the national champ Ohio State team and anOSU will have the occasional loss to a team they should beat (Purdue recently and us), and even Alabama has the occasional loss. And none of those losses were to other elite teams, just random conference opponents. Losses happen, even to elite teams - the trick is limiting them to 1 a season and winning your conference championship. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 5 days # ^ The other trick is to have only the unexpected losses. Teams in the second tier have to add the unexpected losses to the expected ones. As our weekly statistician points out, being favored in every game does not mean you will win every game. Opposite actually. The odds are overwhelmingly in favor of you losing one or two games you shouldn't. HokieDoug96 | 1 month 5 days # ^ True, my only point was the original poster made it sound like elite teams don't lose (or only to other very highly ranked teams). They do, and frequently not to other "elite" teams (maybe not any one team frequently, but just about every year, one of the top 4 teams has a non-elite loss). ashore13 🍺🖖🦃🦃🦃 | 1 month 5 days # ^ You're absolutely right. I spoke too generally. Elite teams do have WTF losses. We're talking about 18-23 year olds. It's going to happen regardless of the talent or coaching gap. On average the elite teams will just have fewer of them. My point was that these have to happen a lot less for Fuente to elevate the program - only once a year instead of 2-3 times. I guess the point was lost because I was too black and white. Joe Lanza PUBLISHER | 1 month 4 days # ^ The thing is, they also have elite wins to make up for it. Vtkey | 1 month 5 days # The good news is that most teams in the ACC (other than Clemson, and perhaps Notre Dame) seem beatable. It's just a shame that VT seems as beatable as they do. Looking forward to seeing French's analysis this week. I didn't recognize the offense from the writeups of this game, though broadcast deals prevented me from actually seeing it. brownrc | 1 month 5 days # ^ It was one of the first times I vocally questioned the coaches intelligence. I felt like I was watching a Ron Rivera coached Panthers team. Flashes of nice play mixed in with stupid penalties, inability to get play calls to the QB in a timely manner, insisting of "our scheme" vs adjusting to what the defense is doing. I suffered with Rivera long enough, I don't want to do it again, but just on another team. AssPocketFullOWhiskey DON'TNEEDNOSTINKING⭐ | 1 month 5 days # And here I sit just blown away at how many people still have the bandwidth to get this upset over Hokie football. TL;DR: It's been a shit year. Joe Lanza PUBLISHER | 1 month 5 days # I appreciate y'all for keeping it (pretty) civil. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Civil is my middle name...sort of AssPocketFullOWhiskey DON'TNEEDNOSTINKING⭐ | 1 month 5 days # ^ Quit trying to church it up, son. Your middle name is Civ. RocketHokie13 🚀🛡️ | 1 month 5 days # ^ Is "Pretty" your first? Civil Hokie 🥧 TEAM PIE 🥧 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Civil is my first name... Literally hokie07ME RATHER BE A HOKIE | 1 month 5 days # Palmetto Hokie | 1 month 5 days # Covid aside, college football just not fun anymore. There are 8-10 teams at the top and then everybody else. It's all about the $$ and we can't compete at the highest level anymore that's just a fact. But we still shouldn't be losing to ODU, Duke and Wake. eshiben5 | 1 month 5 days # ^ I had this exact convo with my friend yesterday. The sport used to be great because little guys could punch up but its lost that feeling. How many times do bama and clemson have to play for the natty before fans stop giving a shit VTJ12 | 1 month 5 days # ^ If it wasn't already before, CFB has just become a complete farm system for the NFL. The advances in technology and recruiting services now mean that any legit D1 talent anywhere in the country can be found. Teams with the most money, best facilities, and best coaching will get anyone they want. The playoff has actually hurt the sport in the end, because there is a group of 4-6 teams who can annually compete for it, and it has become the focus and measure for an elite program. Playoff or bust. Even the other Big 6 bowls don't have as much meaning anymore. The big recruits want to play for teams where they have a shot at the playoff and will get the most exposure for the draft. Even if that means sitting a few years, they want to go to an NFL pipeline school. Offering early playing time doesn't even have the same appeal - you can go to a powerhouse and sit for a few years, play a year or two and save wear and tear on your body, and have a shot to be a top draft pick. The competition for top talent is realistically between a small group of schools, and even the diamond in the rough guys are being found and sought after nationwide. Relationships with high school coaches don't mean what they used to. The game has changed so much that it is hard to get excited about the way things are headed. When the NFL bubble bursts and it's popularity wanes, you will see the money start to leave the college sport and the playing field level out again. Until then, it's pay to play. Divertuffhokie | 1 month 5 days # ^ I'd have to disagree with you on playing time. If that wasn't important we wouldn't have so much activity in the portal. #2's are leaving powerhouses to get more playing time, and successfully doing so at other powerhouses. bcschewe | 1 month 4 days # ^ A lot of #2s leaving powerhouses are probably sophomores or juniors who see that a freshman or sophomore is going to pass them on the depth chart and become #1 Divertuffhokie | 1 month 4 days # ^ They're still leaving to get playing time. HokieStone 🎙TWO DEEP VT🎙 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Penny State would like a word. VTjoshie | 1 month 5 days # Respectable game by the defense. Reminded me of the UVA game last year, needed to throw the ball to win and couldn't get it done. Regression to the mean, not as good as we thought we were on oline. ltrepeter2000 | 1 month 5 days # Can basketball start already? Really would like an official announcement with a schedule so it could distract me from this disaster.... Rayo | 1 month 5 days # Why does half the site have to make an existential prediction on the coaching staff and future of the program after every game? Highs are high and lows are low, this is clearly a low. Can we not just wait till after the season to make judgements. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 5 days # ^ It must be therapeutic for some. AZHokie22 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Because it's pretty much the only "immediate" change that can be made when people feel things are not getting where they should be. You can't make wholesale roster changes in the college game, and even recruiting top end studs usually takes a year or two to start showing dividends on the field, if ever. And there is usually some correlation between quality of coaching and how even the highest rated recruits end up developing. And most fans are decent human beings. There isn't much interest in getting really mad at a 19-20 year old, unless they suck on the field AND they are a shitty person off. So if you are pissed at a loss, there is really only one direction to focus that anger. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Good point. I never really thought of it in that way. VT_Warthog | 1 month 4 days # ^ After every win it's the exact opposite though. We won one game against BC and everyone said "Where are the Cornelson haters now?!" and "Fuente for national coach of the year." If one game can be a referendum on this staff in a positive way, why can't it be a referendum in a negative way? It shouldn't be either, of course. drkev10 | 1 month 4 days # ^ People love to scream and cry. If someone gets this emotional after a football game (in a year that college kids should not be playing but that's another subject) then they need to take a step away and take a break from things. It's not healthy to act the way people do after games. HokieAlum6144 | 1 month 5 days # I prefer to think that Wake had a copy of our play book. That explains their defenses performance. HokieRif | 1 month 5 days # If you all thought we played sloppy yesterday and need something to make yourself feel better, direct your attention to Fox in about 5 minutes - Dallas @ Washington... in the rain... This has the promise to be one of the ugliest games you watch all year. HokieRif | 1 month 5 days # ^ Watch this game end 2-0 Living4Fall | 1 month 5 days # ^ This certainly didn't age well. VPIhokieME RECOVERING PESSIMIST | 1 month 5 days # This team is what it is. We don't recruit particularly well. We always have two or three really good performances on one side of the ball or the other(usually not in the same game). We always lose at least one, typically two, games we should win. Our coaches always have excuses. Our players are consistently inconsistent. We'll lose one game that can be blamed on penalties and turnovers pretty much every year. We'll win at least one game that we shouldn't (usually because the other team had penalties and turnovers). That's who we are. That's what Fuente has built and until he's gone there's no reason to expect anything different. This team will fairly consistently win 7 or 8 games and look really good in a couple wins and look really bad in a couple losses and look lucky to win in a game or two and look unlucky to lose in one. I really want this team to be good. Beamer and a weak ACC pretty much until Clemson got good had me believing we were closer to cresting that hump than I think we really are. I'm starting to adjust my expectations. It doesn't feel good to go to bed upset and wake up in a gloomy mood after bad Hokies losses. And the reality is that we're going to have a few bad losses every year. That's been true every year under Fuente. Even in 2016 that loss to Cuse was kind of inexplicable. I don't hate Fuente. I don't think he's a bad guy or even a bad coach. But over his entire tenure this team has shown patterns that I think we can continue to expect for as long as he's the head whistle. I know everyone wants to win the conference and compete for playoff spots. But that just isn't a fair or reasonable expectation given the last 4+ years. Let's be realistic here. This team will win some exciting games. Some games will be fun to watch. This team will lose some frustrating games that are hard to watch. We're not going to do anything consistently. That's just who we are and that's what we should expect going forward. The glory years are behind us, I'm afraid. Just be glad there are still football games on Saturdays. Don't get too down when they lose. It's going to happen and what's the point of getting upset? Vtkey | 1 month 5 days # ^ This team will win some exciting games. Some games will be fun to watch. This team will lose some frustrating games that are hard to watch. That's where this program has been for a long time. brownrc | 1 month 5 days # ^ This is exactly why people are upset. We were sold on program elevation and got program stagnation instead. It's a question of mismanagement of expectations, and that is squarely on the AD and coaches. Vtkey | 1 month 4 days # ^ We got a better offense. I think the expectation was that our defense wouldn't regress. I don't think we realized at the time how much that was happening. Almost seems like everyone's offenses have gotten better. Saban said a few days ago that offense is more important than defense. It was a focus that needed to change, no matter what. Bragghokie | 1 month 3 days # ^ This is not emphasized enough I think. The offense we have now is light years ahead of the offenses Beamer fielded. Fuente told Bud when he first got here that he wouldn't have to rely on the defense to win games. Fu knew that's where we were. We had little offense but our defenses were usually so good that we would win low scoring games. We weren't blowing the doors off of anyone for the most part. So the offense got better and the defense declined. Fu kept his part of the offense getting better but it's been the defense that we are so used to in Blacksburg that has disappeared. So we can score and march up and down the field problem is the defense allows the other team to do so as well. tjbhokie | 1 month 5 days # ^ The last 5 years? Vtkey | 1 month 4 days # ^ MUCH longer than that. Bragghokie | 1 month 3 days # ^ Our coaches always have excuses. What team doesn't? I'm not sure what people want to hear from coaches when a team loses. Everyone thinks everything is some type of "excuse". I heard JF talk of where they need to get better and what they did that was out of character. I've heard him say stuff is his fault. I'm not sure what people expect from coaches in all honesty. Other than that I agree with the general sentiment of the post. I do agree with the other comments that we've been losing games we shouldn't for a long time. That dates before Fuente and before we really started to decline under Beamer. We've always been that way. ‘11 and ‘12 Hokie | 1 month 5 days # I just watched the UVAh game on dvr and I am fairly worried about that game. UVAh D line will be a good match to our O-line which is the strength of our team. King going down field is how Miami got their points. UVAhs running game is legit and they also hit some nice passes including a go ahead touchdown pass which was called back by a blocker down field... But not even sure if UVAh will have to throw one pass against us with the way our run D has looked. Hooker has to flash his arm that game and Tre Turner will need to show up too Vtkey | 1 month 5 days # ^ We'll be needing a functional offense for that game. They don't quit, so we have to play the full 60 minutes. With any luck, we don't spot them seven before the game gets started, and our offense shows up that day. So far we've been a Jeckyl and Hyde team this year. 99Hokies03 | 1 month 5 days # Liberty has more votes than the Hokies in the Coaches Poll. 2020; it'll get after ya ... boylejc2 | 1 month 5 days # ^ Well if we compromised all standards and hired a coach like "only Jesus can handle my junk" Hugh Freeze, then sure. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 5 days # ^ Most voters in the coach's poll don't watch the games. Not a good measure for the team or program. Redkoat64 | 1 month 5 days # We recieved absolutely 0 votes in the AP poll. Sigh. Nneckhokie84 | 1 month 5 days # Let's face the music, tech does not respond well to getting punched in the mouth. It started with our o line not responding to wake loading the box, and receivers could not break press coverage. The offense goes as the line goes, and they went in the ditch. You can't drive the field and not get points, and missed field goals and interceptions sealed our fate. Defense also played soft against the run, the wake o line imposed their will on ours. The defense at least kept the game close by bending but not breaking most of the time. The back driving our linemen into the end zone was disappointing, though. We just don't play tough, and teams will use this playbook against us again. Rayo | 1 month 5 days # Second look at the game: Total yards Tech: 433 Wake: 316 Tech rushing (excluding fake punt): 42 attempts 4.7 ypc Tech passing: 33 attempts 51% completion Wake rushing: 49 attempts 4.2 ypc Wake passing: 17 attempts 70% completion Even with the turnovers we could have won this game by more than one score. As much as people call Fuente "risk averse" and "outcome driven", why were we slinging the ball all over the place when we could easily have run the ball (maybe used some sort of read option) probably to score on many of the drives we got held to fg's or turned the ball over. Not saying we should never pass, but they had good coverage all game and that many incompletions will stall any offense. hokie07ME RATHER BE A HOKIE | 1 month 5 days # ^ Missed field goals alone makes this a 1 point loss. Then there's the freak tip ball interception at the end of the first half when we moved the ball at will and reserved a timeout to guarantee at least 3 points... VPIhokieME RECOVERING PESSIMIST | 1 month 5 days # ^ even if we get all 9 of those points you mention and Wake doesn't score again and we win the game 25-23 I think it's still fair to be disappointed with the offense. An offense that had been putting up 40 ppg with that kind of outing against one of the worst defenses in the league is not great, even if we win. I wanna be AOE | 1 month 5 days # ^ I think we pretty much killed 2 drives with Blackshear runs for minus-7 yards. The offense would be rolling and then we'd run a jet sweep and get way behind the chains and the drive would stall. I can't wait to see French's writeup because it felt like we were way too east-west in the running game. I don't know if Wake schemed us into that or if the Hokies kept running wide to look for a hole. tjbhokie | 1 month 5 days # ^ Maybe we should hire a better OC that can win games when we clearly have a talent advantage. We have the best RB we've had in a decade and possibly the best offensive line we've ever had as a program. We have three 4* quarterbacks and the WR room was stacked like a year or two ago and is still talented. Our defense finally strings together holding a weak wake forest team to ~30 points and our offense lays an egg. I can't blame anyone but the OC jobushokie | 1 month 5 days # It's crazy how a coach goes from "ACC coach of the year front runner" to "hm I don't know how he gets another year" but I guess this is where we're at. Really tough backend of the season and that Liberty game looks like a trap. I think Fuente is a good coach and people way underestimate what he did for Memphis, but, it's year 5, there's been some heartburn in past seasons, and fans want to see quicker turnarounds.... HokieinFLA | 1 month 5 days # ^ I think its moreso that many fans at this point don't see a turnaround coming at all. This current roster is the core of the highest rated classes Fuente has put together, and we're still a really average ACC team that just lost to Wake. We are trending hard in the wrong direction in Recruiting and we need new personnel on D to fit JHam scheme. We desperately need some DTs in '21 and have come up completely empty. We see how much different our Offense looks with a dynamic RB, yet we haven't been able to Recruit a single Blue Chip RB during JF's tenure. tjbhokie | 1 month 5 days # ^ Lol Memphis is better now than it was under him gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 4 days # ^ isn't that how "elevating a program" works? tjbhokie | 1 month 4 days # ^ The program was elevated further after he left. If Fuente won a championship, we wouldn't credit Beamer gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 4 days # ^ im not sure what your point is. you can't draw a line from memphis pre-fuente and memphis post-fuente without going through his tenure. you can't say "memphis is better now than it was then so therefore fuente's tenure didn't matter", which, unless i'm mistaken is the gist of your point. Should CJF win a natty here, we absolutely will talk about how he walked into a difficult spot in replacing CFB, built on the foundation that Frank laid in Blacksburg, and finished the job. tjbhokie | 1 month 4 days # ^ I absolutely disagree. Fuente did a good job at Memphis, then he left. From there the program can stay the same, regress, or elevate further. Memphis rose even higher after he left. Therefore I would say an equal or superior staff/administration is at Memphis compared to when Fuente was there. I would say the same thing about Tech. If Fuente or someone else wins us a title, it's "Frank Who?" in my book. Unfortunately we are regressing and that is pointing me towards our coaching staff and/or administration are inferior to what they were under Beamer gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 4 days # ^ Okay, now look at where tech was before beamer and where memphis was before fuente. Progress might not be linear, but it's not like everything that isn't current didn't actually happen and didn't have direct or indirect influence on what is current The fact you're comparing fuente's memphis tenure to the post-fuente era only supports the point that he doesn't enough credit for what he did there. tjbhokie | 1 month 4 days # ^ I think you're undervaluing what Norvell accomplished gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 3 days # ^ Am I? Or am I saying that it's impossible to totally parse out the effect of having a coach come in and elevate a program, giving his successors a better foundation to build on? Norvell doing great at Memphis is wonderful but doesn't change the fact that Fuente turned around that program and left Norvell with a better starting point. Pointing to Norvell's success after Fuente as some weird data point to support the idea that Fuente didn't do that much for the program is absolutely bonkers to me. Fuente was the first head coach to have a winning record at Memphis since the 70s. By the time he left for VT, he had as many 9+ win seasons at Memphis as every other coach in program history combined. He had the first 10 win season in program history. tjbhokie | 1 month 3 days # ^ Let's not get carried away. He was 2 wins above .500 VT_Fencer JET SWEEP YPC 8.7 | 1 month 3 days # ^ This is an incredibly one sided way to look at Fuente's time at Memphis. Fuente had 52 scholarship players when he took the job. gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 3 days # ^ Fuente had incredible success compared to literally every Memphis head coach since Gerald Ford was in the Oval Office. Justin Fuente wasn't even born yet. This entire conversation is another piece of data in support of the original point about how he doesn't get enough credit for what he actually did there. (edit: even though i think you're wrong, i don't think you're breaking any rules and therefore would remind the rest of the community of the CGs: "if someone flames, wages a personal attack or doesn't follow the community guidelines, then downvote. Do not downvote for disagreeing with someone's opinion") tjbhokie | 1 month 3 days # ^ Respect. dcwilson40 GT SUCKS AT PASSING | 1 month 4 days # ^ The fact that losing to Liberty- in football for VT is even in "play" or a question is reason enough to move on from Fuente. Or are we accepting and making excuses to losing to Liberty in football? APrimusHokie | 1 month 4 days # ^ Well we haven't lost to them... Yet vtnerf 🏌️♂️⛳🍀🍺🎣🧔⛈️ | 1 month 4 days # ^ To be fair we hadn't lost to Wake at 3 on Saturday either... jmgreen4 | 1 month 4 days # ^ Was losing to JMU, Temple, Miami-OH, Syracuse, East Carolina, etc. etc. etc. reason enough to move on from Beamer? No. And you're talking about a game that hasn't even happened yet. We're not losing to Liberty. Joe Lanza PUBLISHER | 1 month 4 days # ^ At this point, I'm not arguing moving on from Fuente, but when Frank lost to JMU, he won the ACC. When he lost to ECU, he won the ACC. When he lost to Syracuse, he went to a major bowl. Fuente got pounded by Duke and snapped the UVA streak, lost to ODU and almost snapped the bowl streak. Team are going to lose head-scratching games, but it's much more palatable when, in the big picture, they had a successful campaign. That's the difference between Frank and Fuente right now. jmgreen4 | 1 month 4 days # ^ Yeah I totally agree. I was just saying that losing head-scratchers (or, in this case, fans simply talking about the possibility of losing a head-scratcher) isn't reason enough to move on from a coach. vtnerf 🏌️♂️⛳🍀🍺🎣🧔⛈️ | 1 month 4 days # ^ VPI | 1 month 3 days # ^ I'm trying to stay far away from this whole thing, but a few facts: After the 2019 Duke game the Hokies went 6-1, losing to Notre Dame by a point with the backup third string QB (should have won that game too), had two shutouts against ACC teams which Tech had never done before. Then lost our star CB (Farley) for the final two games and lost close games to a couple of decent teams. In all three of those losses, a play or two determined the game, so the coaches had the team in position to win and the other team just made a couple plays better than Tech players. Tech did not fold after losing to Duke in 2019. Joe Lanza PUBLISHER | 1 month 3 days # ^ I'm not arguing they folded in 2019, merely pointing out that Beamer had head scratching losses but more often than not they were overshadowed but substantial accomplishments (conference championships, marquee bowl games). Had Fuente beat UVA and gotten Tech to the ACCCG last season, that would have left a good taste in the fanbase's mouth. Instead, they lost to UVA and lost a winnable mid-tier bowl game. VPI | 1 month 2 days # ^ I hear you, I just wanted to point out that last year's team fought hard after a bad loss just like Beamer's teams. Here's possibly where we differ on how we analyze the same information differently. You seem to be looking at the overall end results - the Beamer teams won the ACC after bad losses, Fuente's team didn't. Period, end of discussion. I think there are reasons why those teams won a few tight games, and why 2019 lost. The year of the Boise/JMU losses in a six day period, that team had a multi-year starter at QB who was a senior with other senior leadership that stepped up and made plays when they needed to be made to win close games. Tyrod was the ACC player of the year if my memory is correct, so he was often a difference maker in games. In 2019, the QB was a first year starter, redshirt sophomore, with very little senior leadership, and the best players on the field in the games we lost were on the other team, especially the last two games where the opposing senior QBs had enough playmaking ability to eek out the win for their teams. They both made it onto NFL rosters this year. Also, Farley didn't play in the last two games, and that is an important part of the equation. If you don't think that matters, then that's where we differ. I don't blame Tech coaches for those losses because the wins were there for the taking if our players had just made a throw or a catch or made a man miss or made a tackle on a couple of plays. Did the coaches put the players in position to win the games? YES The players have to make the plays to win the game. Bragghokie | 1 month 3 days # ^ But we also have to realize where recruiting and the conference is as a whole now to back then. When we first got into the ACC it was bad. And we were capable of beating every team in the conference. With the rise of SM the recruiting landscape changed. FSU fell off a cliff. Clemson has become more dominant than ever, Miami has stayed about the same and so have we. Other teams have risen and the competition has gotten better. The landscape has changed more than just the head coaches. But I do understand what you're saying. Chris TEEMING WITH INTEL | 1 month 3 days # ^ The last few years the ACC has been way worse than some of our Beamer years like 2004, 2005, and 2009 in particular Other teams have risen and the competition has gotten better Clemson has risen. UNC is *rising*, but other programs fell off a cliff like FSU. Miami so far is no different than their other pretty good but not "back" teams. The competition in the conference was strong in 2016, that's it. Duke is getting worse again, BC is worse than the Matt Ryan years, Syracuse and Wake are two of the least talented rosters in the P5. Then it's just a bunch of middle of the road teams like it's always been. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 3 days # ^ I guess the question is would 2016 Hokies have won the ACC against a Matt Ryan BC team? Would this 2020 team compete in a traditional Atlantic/Coastal scenario sans Clemson and Covid? Let's pretend for a second that a full roster Hokie team beat UNC but fell flat against Wake. We could still be controlling out own destiny to the ACC championship and not have a Clemson juggernaut blocking the way. It is a lot of what ifs but if Fuente had two ACC Championships in five years, would it look much different than our early ACC years? I agree the ACC as a whole is roughly equal to then, but I can't think of a single team we had that won the ACC that would be favored to win against a modern Clemson team. Those years would feel much different without championship rings. The line between success and failure as a program can be very thin sometimes. Rayo | 1 month 3 days # ^ Lmao here we go, mad at something that hasn't happened yet (and won't happen). It's technically "in play" only because they're on the schedule. If you actually think Liberty has a good chance of winning go put money on them dude. My guess? You won't and don't actually think we'll lose, you just like getting mad and oozing negativity every time we lose hokie07ME RATHER BE A HOKIE | 1 month 5 days # Seems like our guys overlooked this game. Got too full of themselves and were more interested in liaisons with the volleyball team than taking wake seriously. drkev10 | 1 month 4 days # ^ Volleyball team won on Saturday though. I watched that instead of the football game. hokie07ME RATHER BE A HOKIE | 1 month 4 days # ^ so did our football team Succinct | 1 month 5 days # The conundrum for me is this is a veteran team with plenty of upperclassmen, and the few true-Fr playing (Strong, etc) have done well. A couple years ago youth was blamed the inconsistent play and WTH losses. What is the excuse now? That said I think we bounce back and do better the second half of the season - much like last year - although I hope this time it includes a win over LOLUva. But I agree with others who have said that this is kind of the ceiling under CJF with BC as OC. I think Fuente is a heck of a guy and it's possible nobody other than Saban or Lombardi could do better but I'd like to see what he could do with a new OC. jpcvt | 1 month 5 days # Fuente was close to playing himself into extension talks if he wins at UNC. Now that an ACC title is virtually off the table for this year, I don't think those talks are going to happen. dcwilson40 GT SUCKS AT PASSING | 1 month 4 days # ^ He desperately tried to leave last year. That really helps recruiting /S... Whit shouldn't consider an extension unless he wins the ACC 99Hokie4Life | 1 month 5 days # My hot take... These guys all put on the VT logo yesterday before walking out to the field. The symbol of the school I love (albeit I HATE the new academic logo, but that's a whole other rant). The symbol of the school I graduated from. The school that shaped me, gave me memories and opportunity. From coach to player, GA to trainer, they all want to represent VT the best they can. I guess my love for the Hokies > my love for Hokie Football. We've all had false starts, bad plays, things we wish we'd have done better in a moment in time. I'm sure they feel as absolutely crushed as we do as fans, even more so because they are much more invested in this through their actual blood, sweat and tears. And I'm damn sure they are doing everything they can possibly do to get better. That's good enough for me. I'm looking forward to the next time I can watch these 18-24 year old gentleman put on the VT logo and give it their all on the gridiron. Go Hokies! vsaxena SHOULD BE MORE + | 1 month 5 days # Last year I was burn-it-all-down pissed off after the Duke game. This year it was after the UNC game. After this year's WF game, I'm just confused. Apparently its the fans fault for not donating, but Hokie CLUB is inefficient? Would it even matter if I donated to the AD, if the money is spread around different sports? (Dunno) Is there realistically a path forward to become the next Clemson? (No) Does our recruiting suck? (Yes) Is the coaching staff good? (Sometimes) Is the coaching staff bad? (Sometimes) I hate to say it, but I expect VT football to lose every game. We lost to ODU. I know we aren't going to be in the playoff. I know when we are ranked above 20, its probably bullshit. Is there some magical set of coaches that can take VT football to 10 wins a season, compete for the ACC Championship? What is the path to get there? When Babcock hired Fuente, he was generally praised for a sensible transition from Beamer to Fuente. What coaching hires have been extremely successful since 2015? Which coach has transformed a football program from tier to the next? boylejc2 | 1 month 5 days # ^ It's hard to say anyone hired that cycle has truly changed a team. Kirby Smart has been good at Georgia but they haven't gotten over the hump. Barry Odom and Tracy Claeys were fired. DJ Durkin killed a kid. USC hates Clay Helton (again someone who hasn't elevated the program). Richt is out of Miami after a rise and and fall. The two that have been good were Scott Frost at UCF, and sadly, Bronco Mendenhall. Otherwise, everyone else is pretty much in the same program status quo as us - the difference being they were at a higher level than we were when Beamer retired in 2015. Chris TEEMING WITH INTEL | 1 month 5 days # ^ Seems a little unfair to say Mendenhall was a success but not Kirby Smart? He's been to a title game, elevated the talent level to Alabama/Ohio State tier and was one transfer away (Fields) from probably being the title favorite this year. You can say losing Fields was a grave error, but I can't imagine having to decide between benching your sophomore QB who almost won a title as a true freshman and was apparently (by all accounts) better in practice than True Frosh Fields. If he wasn't earning the the start in practice that puts you in a precarious situation. boylejc2 | 1 month 4 days # ^ It was more of an evaluation of whether someone has elevated the program or not. Georgia has been, in my living memory "championship or bust" with all the SEC hype, and blue-chip ratios to boot. I'm not saying he was bad. Its basically been going from Bobby Bowden to Jimbo Fisher in the later Flordia State years. He's been more consistent than Richt but has that been enough? Conversely, Frost had an undefeated season at UCF not long after a winless season. Mendenhall has three of the four bowl appearances for UVA this decade, won the Coastal last year, and largely has established an identity for their football team. Frosty's dad | 1 month 4 days # ^ Matt Campbell has absolutely taken Iowa State up a level. They are not great by any stretch, but would say they are at least as good as we are the past few years. Fuente took over a mediocre team and has us at about the same point. Maybe a little better and maybe a little worse, but not dramatically different. Iowa State was terrible for years and he has them as a legitimate team that you don't want to play even if you are a blue blood. Can he take them from pretty good to being a truly good team? Who knows? Probably not. But has definitely elevated the program from terrible to pretty good. dcwilson40 GT SUCKS AT PASSING | 1 month 4 days # ^ Can a very good college coach win at VT? a 100% football school with a great fan base? Of fucking course... and that guy is not a unicorn. StineyDraw48 | 1 month 4 days # ^ If you're gonna be the "i just tell it how it is guy" on here, then i'm gonna need to you reevaluate the great fan base comment. Lack of money in the program is a direct result of donations given. People want a better OC and better recruiting? Then we better start helping the program raise enough money so we can field a recruiting staff that is at least half the size of Bama or Clemsons and the coordinators and position coaches of the prestige that meet your standards. Our coaches and players haven't turned the corner in making us a blue chip level team yet, but neither has the fan base. Ignoring that is ignoring a systematic issue with our program. dcwilson40 GT SUCKS AT PASSING | 1 month 4 days # ^ Agree 100%... we have way to many "fans"- often the most holier than thou that shun ANY criticism of the program, yet give $100.00 per year. way to many fans that find a silver lining in getting our asses kicked by ODU or a 1 star LB recruit compared to lawrence taylor that don't give at all. When you have those, the expectations start to match... oh we tried hard against wake so let's extend fuente as I continue to not give a dime. It's a huge issue I agree. StineyDraw48 | 1 month 4 days # ^ vtnerf 🏌️♂️⛳🍀🍺🎣🧔⛈️ | 1 month 4 days # Impressed. And proud. Handled much better than the Face Book site. Sheesh. AssPocketFullOWhiskey DON'TNEEDNOSTINKING⭐ | 1 month 4 days # Conversation that just happened with Hoo coworker: (After commiserating with him on both of our losses this weekend.) Hoo coworker: You know that now the highest-ranked team in the state is... Me: Stop! You just stop right there! Do NOT finish that sentence! Don't you EVER finish that sentence! hokie07ME RATHER BE A HOKIE | 1 month 4 days # ^ there are no teams in Virginia listed in the top 25. And, no, receiving votes does not count as being ranked... AssPocketFullOWhiskey DON'TNEEDNOSTINKING⭐ | 1 month 4 days # ^ Technically, you are correct. But also, technically, there is a team with 85 votes that neither VT or UVA have. Rubber_Dutchman | 1 month 4 days # Team loss. Felt like our O was getting out coached by their DC but then ... 2 missed field goals, dropped passes, INT in the red zone. We were in the position to win if the players do their job. I guess that's the kind of loss that will give you doubts about all aspects of your program. Taken within the context of this season though, I'm really not sure how to feel about it. I guess it was HH's worst game as a starter and if he plays up to his usual standard we probably win. Another scoreless 1st quarter. Knowing that we need to score as much as possible these slow starts are a worrying trend. Has Hooker ever led a successful two-minute drive? This is not a dig, I just can't remember if he has. jmgreen4 | 1 month 4 days # ^ Definitely agree, a team loss. Turnovers, stupid penalties, and not scoring in the red zone will do that to you. We actually were right on par for the season in terms of yards / yards per play, but not finishing off drives will absolutely kill your momentum in college football. Just off memory, yes in Hendon's first ever game as the starter he had the game-winning drive against Miami last year. Rubber_Dutchman | 1 month 3 days # ^ So that's one in his first game when the opponent had no idea what to expect from him. notoriousHokie | 1 month 4 days # It's probably been said already in some form or fashion, but a really good VT team lost to Syracuse on the road in 2016 in a game that they shouldn't have (I believe we were double digit road favorites in that matchup as well) and still had a pretty damn successful season. I have this issue across college football fanbases in general - every fan bases says "oh this is SOOO XYZ school" or "classic bulldogs/hokies/tarheels/spartans" making it seem like the issue of losing to a team you shouldn't is unique to them. Here's an ice cold glass of reality for you, and this goes for this fanbase as well as about 115 others in the country - if your expectation is that every season you're going to win 10 games, compete for a playoff spot and/or natty, you're going to have a really bad time watching college football. You're watching a game played by 18-22 year olds (insert Justus Reed joke here), the vast majority of whom are not going to play football at the next level, so don't be expected when you don't get elite level consistency week to week. If you're lucky (or Clemson, Ohio State, Alabama, etc.), every so often you're treated to a really special team who plays good football consistently, gets some good injury luck and takes advantage of opportunities and turns it into a great season. Specific to VT fans - our window is shut and has been for several years now. I'm just as frustrated as any of you with Fuente because he doesn't give us the warm and fuzzies the way Beamer did in terms of access to the program and the general feeling like he's like a distant 2nd father...but holy shit were we spoiled! And how long did it take him to fire or move Stiney despite YEARS and YEARS of putrid offenses. As I reach the end of this, I'm not entirely sure what I was hoping to get out of writing it all...maybe it's some form of therapy for myself in dealing with another loss in a long string of disappointing, inexcusable losses in my 26 years of VT fandom. Or maybe I'm just trying too hard to get people to agree with my mindset and I should just shut up. Or maybe it took me 20 years of rooting for the Hokies for me to reach this somewhat defeated and mildly disinterested mindset. Probably a blend of all that. All I know is, no matter what, I'll always tune in when possible on Saturdays to cheer for the Hokies and I sure hope you all will as well. Ham Bone | 1 month 4 days # ^ I'm just as frustrated as any of you with Fuente because he doesn't give us the warm and fuzzies the way Beamer did in terms of access to the program and the general feeling like he's like a distant 2nd father...but holy shit were we spoiled! This is where I am at. Beamer certainly had his fair share of WTF losses. But man were we spoiled. The man was just hard to hate. Fuente has the opposite problem. I'm not sure if its plain demeanor or what but I continue to wonder what exactly the identity of this era of Hokie Football is. I thought we had found it in running the ball the first few games of this season, but apparently not. Sometime the team just seems to come out without any emotion. Although there are several games that come to mind where they came out ready to bash some heads, such as the FSU game a few years back. I'm not sure if this is a head coaching problem or what. When I played high school football we were pretty terrible most of the time. One year we went 1-9. But every game we were gonna go out there and attempt to run the ball and generally just try to hit the other team as hard as we could. It wasn't much, as indicated by the record, but at least it was some kind of identity. Elite teams have an identity of just winning games, something tech hasnt had in years. chparkervatech | 1 month 4 days # ^ All I know is the kids coming in are great! Coaches were a major success last week, especially when everyone (knows it is coming) employs the stack the box strategy .Why aren't our under the radar 5 stars more successful in this magical system? They should have just overcome any talent issues and just ran faster than they can to get better separation and block the 1 or 2 unblockable hats on each play due the coaches successful, ahem, coaching. I am sorry, there was a lot of stinking to go around Saturday and it will continue for the foreseeable future as we compete with the near bottom half of the ACC indefinitely. But the lame bowl streak lives and we will be UVA most of the time. Yipee... And for all the defend VT Coaches at all cost folks that said the players just weren't focused, well, lack of composure, discipline and penalties are 90% emblematic of respect for coaches, culture, program tradition, and understanding of time, down and momentum, 90% of which is coachable. dcwilson40 GT SUCKS AT PASSING | 1 month 4 days # ^ Let's see... Fans of: Alabama Georgia Clemson Ohio State Penn State Auburn LSU Oklahoma Michigan Most certainly can expect to win 10 games per year in a 12 game schedule. Fans of: Oregon Ok State Stanford Wisconsin USC Can probably expect to win 9 games unless there are injuries or other unforseen issues. VT used to be in this category. Fans like myself were hoping to remain closer to here than Wake, NC State, UVA, WVU, Kansas State territory. But here we are jmgreen4 | 1 month 4 days # ^ Ehh not to nitpick, but we are definitely among the teams in the second category, outside of Wisconsin. All the others have multiple 4-8 win seasons in the last several years. From your lists, we have just as many (if not more) wins than Oregon / stanford / USC / OKST / Auburn since Fuente took over. Hokie Fireman 🚨 🚒 🔥 | 1 month 4 days # ^ Last Season with less than 10 wins Alabama 2007 clear outlier that everyone else wants to be Georgia 2016 Clemson 2010 closet to being Bama Ohio State 2011 (has a lot of losses to unranked teams as ranked including Tech) Penn State 2018 and from 2010-15 Auburn 7 times since 2010 including 2019 LSU 2014-2018 Oklahoma 2014 Michigan 2019 and 6 times since 2010 dcwilson40 GT SUCKS AT PASSING | 1 month 4 days # ^ I said "expect"... thanks Hokie Fireman 🚨 🚒 🔥 | 1 month 4 days # ^ I'm going to regret doing this: If the fans "expect" ten win seasons yet in the case of 3 of those teams rarely get them isn't that just every fan base in the country "expecting" to make the playoffs when most teams don't even stand a chance? What's the point of only rooting for teams that will make the playoffs everyone else should just stop rooting? VT_Fencer JET SWEEP YPC 8.7 | 1 month 4 days # ^ What's the point of rooting for anything when the heat death of the universe is inevitable? Checkmate jmgreen4 | 1 month 4 days # ^ The heat death of the universe is sure to effect teams that play in "Death Valley" first though, right? In that case, maybe we'll have a small window to win the ACC before the rest of the conference is gone? HokieStone 🎙TWO DEEP VT🎙 | 1 month 4 days # ^ Your post is accurate, but I think we are creating a divide constantly in the fanbase with the back and forth on this discussion. Minnesota had a shot at the playoff last year, Iowa did before that, and Oklahoma State does this year. BYU does this year. Fully recognize those situations are all very different. I think we have created a false divide in our hopes and expectations as though their are two camps of fans. There aren't, Hokie fans are looking for a good shot for a ACCCG. If you achieve that, you have a puncher's chance at the playoff. We all know the gap between the rest of the ACC and Clemson, that goes unsaid. However, I firmly believe this team is capable of achieving a puncher's chance. Doesn't need to be every year, and we have made a go of it, even under Fuente. the concern I think some have, maybe me as well, is this was the VT football I was hoping to see with the OL and run game, and maybe that is just not good enough anymore. I think all goals are aligned, the only difference with the playoff discussion is that if you make the ACCCG and avoid lackadaisical losses, which that game was, you have a chance in the ACCCG and therefor the playoff. Because Clemson is so good, those are nearly one in the same because you have to take care of business during the season in order to have a shot at them in a big game like that. Granted, no divisions and addition this year of ND threw that math off this year. Interestingly I am a fan of both those things; however, it requires us to reset expectations. The ACC Circle is very different in this situation. It was fun and you could still win the Coastal, if it goes this direction, the goalpost for all teams not named Clemson has narrowed. 99Hokie4Life | 1 month 4 days # ^ Great take. I don't understand the need to berate a bunch of hard working 18-24 year old guys that wear a VT uniform if they simply don't measure up to some expectation (or hope) that us fans have for them. In the end, It's a game played by young adults that are working their tails off to represent themselves and VT the best they can in the middle of a pandemic no less. I just can't understand grown ass adults acting a fool with some of these comments. It's great if we win and it sucks if we lose, but in the end it's a college sport. I understand frustrations (I have them too) and at the end of the season we can all debate what changes should happen. But slamming these kids and coaches after a loss is not a good look for our fan base. We are better than that. These players, their families and friends and future players read boards like this. Perspective is key and some of us ain't got it. I'll join with you on Saturdays and cheer for my Hokies regardless if they are 0-10 or 10-0. Go Hokies! OHokie | 1 month 4 days # ^ if your expectation is that every season you're going to win 10 games, compete for a playoff spot and/or natty, you're going to have a really bad time watching college football. My expectation isn't 10 wins a year anymore. I'm disappointed because I expected them to be good this year, before the miserable recruiting classes catch up to the program the next couple of years and we start having losing seasons. I don't want to be WVU but that's where it looks like we're headed. And now the one season that could have at least helped stem the tide a little looks no better than the last couple of years. Worst of all, this might be the peak for the next several seasons. ThunderingHokie DID WVU LOSE? | 1 month 4 days # ^ My expectations for this program are these three things: 1. Be in contention for the Coastal and NY6 bowl every season. Every team in the Coastal has been to the ACCCG at least once in the last seven years, so I don't think that's entirely too unrealistic. We have to find a way to pull ahead like what UNC looks to be doing right now. 2. Stop losing games like what we saw on Saturday. In 2016, it was Syracuse and GT. 2017, GT. 2018, ODU. 2019, Boston College and Duke. If we want to pull ahead as a program, you can't have a loss to one of those teams EVERY SEASON. Frank wasn't perfect in that regard, but it was damn sure better than what it is right now, and it was good enough to regularly compete for conference championships. 3. A top 25 recruiting class most offseasons. If Beamer could do it twice in his twilight years 2012-2015, so can this staff. I think of all of those, only number 3 might be a stretch. Unfortunately, the other 2 are somewhat contingent on 3 happening, so maybe all 3 are a stretch. I also don't think that it's all of this coaching staff. Are some guys under qualified? Probably. But the athletic department isn't doing football any favors by helping out Olympic sports the way they have. Ryan2192 | 1 month 4 days # In some slightly brighter news, there is a nonzero chance that the flames won't be coming to Blacksburg in 2 weeks. You are welcome for this ray of sunshine on this cloudy day VT_Fencer JET SWEEP YPC 8.7 | 1 month 4 days # ^ I'd prefer to have the opportunity to put them in their place tbh. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 4 days # Why does losing a football game make fans disproportionately angry when compared to the euphoria of winning one? We all desperately want to hoist that ACC trophy or god forbid win the whole damn NCAA. If lightning were to strike and we were fortunate enough to experience that level of greatness, we would be demanding the next one five minutes afterward. Why do fans have such a hard time enjoying the contest instead of being consumed by the result? I am not pointing fingers here. I am a fan and experience the same emotions as every other person. I just have always found it interesting why winning means so damn much when we aren't the ones competing. VT_Fencer JET SWEEP YPC 8.7 | 1 month 4 days # ^ It's amusing to see who posts the weeks after we lose vs. the weeks after we win. freefall | 1 month 3 days # ^ Why does losing a football game make fans disproportionately angry when compared to the euphoria of winning one? Not stalking you I swear. :-) But the answer to your question is called the negativity bias. Our brains are hardwired to weigh negative input more heavily than positive. Here's one article that provides an overview of the topic; google will find loads more if you're interested. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 3 days # ^ Not stalking you I swear. :-) That is what a stalker would say, lol. I imagine it is actually better as a player/coach because they can at least immediately put 100% into practice and prep for next week. We as fans just mope around until the next game. ThunderingHokie DID WVU LOSE? | 1 month 4 days # Question: what happened to our first two timeouts in the second half? When we gave the ball back to Wake after cutting the lead to 23-16, having at least one of those would have given us more than 45 seconds to work with and opened up the playbook a little more. I still question Fuente's game management ability above all else. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 4 days # ^ Timeouts can be used for a variety of good reasons. You can't always have three in your pocket. ThunderingHokie DID WVU LOSE? | 1 month 4 days # ^ So I went and looked. The first timeout was used early in the third quarter. The next play was an incomplete pass on third down. The next one was used with around six minutes left in the fourth after a Wake Forest run on second down, presumably to stop the clock. However a timeout was not used on the first or third down run, so it is curious as to why we would have just used just one. And while you can't always have three in your pocket, I think you should aim to have at least two entering the last three minutes. You lose 40 seconds for every timeout you don't have at the end of the game. A well managed offense can easily get off 3-4 plays in 40 seconds. I think every coach's goal in a close game should be to save those timeouts for the final three minutes. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 4 days # ^ I remember the first one because that was the horrible 3rd down throw in the dirt. The play was definitely open though, so I can't complain for trying to convert a critical 3rd down. I don't remember the second one but it could have definitely had something to do with defensive substitution. Either way it saved 40 seconds too. I get it, you always want them, but you wouldn't not call a timeout if you see something wrong on a critical down just because you might need them later. ThunderingHokie DID WVU LOSE? | 1 month 4 days # ^ but you wouldn't not call a timeout if you see something wrong on a critical down just because you might need them later In a game where you are up by two possessions and looking to go for the jugular, I would agree because it's less likely you will need them at the end of the game. In a close game, unless you have something you absolutely know will work, I think you save them. I guess as long as Hendon throws a good ball after the first timeout, it works, but there is the element of players executing the perfectly drawn up play. gfs_hokie | 1 month 4 days # So I saw CJF finally admitted/addressed the WR separation problem in his presser today. While I am a football fan I cannot talk football scheme (hockey is a different story). Regardless, Robinson is clearly struggling with his move to the outside, Tre is dealing with something. I guess my question is why have we not seen a Herbert/Blackshear back field running the RPO off of that? It seems that would have to cause a mismatch somewhere on the field. Take the Packers for example they can get Jones and/or Williams matched up against a LB at will and it's like stealing candy. Yet he we sit with a RB that's killing it and a guy we heard nothing but praise for at camp and yet he only gets the ball in his hands to give Herbert a breather. boylejc2 | 1 month 4 days # ^ I would say a lot of this has to do with preparations that would have happened in the spring and summer had we not had a pandemic. I know that is a tiring excuse for some, but I still think it is an important one. Here are some of the things that I have heard either on here, on 247, or just through our own injury statements: Tre Turner has had plantars fasciitis pretty much all year and hasn't practiced much. Payoute broke his ankle/foot/leg (I'm not sure we ever got an answer more than his foot in a boot on instagram). Bowick and Simmons have been active for one game this year, and it doesn't sound like they've practiced much. Changa Hodge got here mid-August. Blackshear also missed a lot of time leading up to the NC State game. Combine that with Hooker missing significant period this summer, and when exactly do you have time to install new concepts of an offense? When can you build off the momentum of last year? At what point do you have time to build chemistry? I think Blackshear was put in the slot at one point after Turner aggrevated his injury, because that is what the numbers dictated. We needed somebody who has practiced, vaguely knows the offense, and has played/practiced game reps this year. ThunderingHokie DID WVU LOSE? | 1 month 4 days # There always seems to be that one game every year where the entire team decides to all meltdown at the same time. The groupthink is quite stunning actually. Hendon Hooker has in general been pretty good at taking care of the ball. He had two interceptions in his career entering Saturday. Yesterday he threw three to the same guy. The offensive line has been incredible at run blocking this year until Saturday. Even Christian Darrisaw missed a key block that would have likely sent the ballcarrier to the end zone for a touchdown. Brian Johnson missed two field goals after making 17 (17 right?) straight. Jarrod Hewitt got ejected for targeting. The team as a whole played one of their most undisciplined games of the Fuente era with all the penalty yards. AZHokie22 | 1 month 4 days # ^ That to me is an even bigger coaching failure than a couple of guys having a bad game. We looked like a team that didn't prepare well enough to beat Wake Forest. We also looked like a team that thought they didn't have to prepare to beat Wake Forest. Both of those things are a big problem. Because from what I've seen overall Fuente's VT teams have never been good enough to "expect" to beat anybody. But that's a bad combo when you also have a fair share of games where you look like you don't respect the opponent. 6 losses as a ranked team to an unranked team. That's more than one a year coached. I guess the bright side is it's unlikely we are ranked again this year so that tally won't increase. ThunderingHokie DID WVU LOSE? | 1 month 4 days # ^ As far as motivation goes, this year has been and will continue to be strange. All of your motivation has to come internally with little to no fans allowed. You'd think our guys would be excited to play football as a top 20 team and one with decent momentum, but that wasn't the case. Someone mentioned it above, but Ashby made a sack yesterday that was met with very minimal celebration. Ashby was the heartbeat of the defense last year. He won ACC linebacker of the week six times. He was expected to be that guy again this season. It's no secret he hasn't lived up to those expectations. He knows it. The team knows it. So you'd think the guys would get more excited for him making that play. Back in the 90s-2000s, if you made a sack, the entire team is celebrating like it was a touchdown. That's definitely not the case anymore. Additionally, I'm not sure if everyone was unprepared. I just think our guys feed off of each other way too much. It's like when they watch someone else make a mistake, rather than go out there and fix it, their buttholes get tight and then they make a mistake. Then someone sees that and does the same thing until you have an entire team that looks like it's in complete disarray. AZHokie22 | 1 month 4 days # ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3O-kYwM8qY gfs_hokie | 1 month 4 days # ^ I've said this for a while now...our defenses have gotten soft in the tail end of buds career and have just gotten softer. What we need are players like Corey Moore. Problem is our coaching staff would legit shi* a chicken if they had to deal with a personality like CM. Could you imagine JF having to deal with the media asking him about his player who just told the media "F you guys, you guys don't win the game for us" Hokieflyguy | 1 month 4 days # ^ Bring back Treyvon Hill? *ducks* HokieAlum6144 | 1 month 4 days # ^ Hewitt getting ejected on targeting was just one of the great examples of horrible calls by that crew. ThunderingHokie DID WVU LOSE? | 1 month 4 days # ^ Yeah, I understand why Hewitt lost his mind. I wish he hadn't because Chamarri Connie wasn't exactly graceful in his ejection either. Not a good look when every time a player gets ejected they decide to have an episode. Nneckhokie84 | 1 month 4 days # ^ Yeah, I get you point about the sportsmanship with the ref. But the ref must understand that to call targeting when the QB is running around and ducking players , he is going to take a shot. He'll, I would have been pissed if Hewitt didnt cream his ass. The helmet to helmet was a function of the QB ducking, and Hewitt coming in hot. Qb s who run the ball should understsnd to get down if they dont want to take a free shot . VTJ12 | 1 month 4 days # The TSL crowd has been putting the spin cycle on this loss pretty hard. Essentially insinuated during the podcast today that you can't expect to consistently beat a team like Wake who is otherworldly well-coaches, or come out consistently motivated unless you're Clemson or Bama. Give me a freaking break. Those guys just praise Fu non-stop and say "I told you so!" whenever this staff has any modicum of success. And when they have inexcusable losses, they are the first to go back to the sad old money and resources refrain and say we can't expect any better at VT. Pathetic if that is the mindset. VT_Warthog | 1 month 4 days # ^ Some folks here certainly have that mindset. OHokie | 1 month 4 days # ^ FWIW, their own subscribers are going after the TSL guys for that take. brownrc | 1 month 4 days # ^ And when they have inexcusable losses, they are the first to go back to the sad old money and resources refrain and say we can't expect any better at VT. What if it's true, though? morange92 | 1 month 4 days # ^ Then maybe bring in a guy to run the program that can help energize the donor base into wanting to contribute. Let's be honest, I like Fuente as a coach but given how closed off and reserved he is towards the fans (and how his program kind of represents that attitude) it's hard to imagine selling is really his forte. I mean I know a lot of people hated Buzz due to how he left things but the dude could sell and he got a lot of investment in our basketball program (Cassell renovations, etc) that paid big dividends for that program. If you want a football example, here's an article on Swinney https://www.forbes.com/sites/donyaeger/2020/01/13/believe-enough-to-sell... Now read that and answer me this: Do you think Fuente is making near that effort to sell his vision to us? I'm not so sure. And I'm not saying Swinney's approach is the only way, the point is maybe Fuente's way isn't going to work for our situation if we do want to see our program get to that level. Especially if more donations and investment are needed. The donors need to be sold on it, even at more affluent and "die-hard" programs. VTJ12 | 1 month 4 days # ^ This is not a binary argument. Yes, we don't have resources currently to compete with the Bama's and Clemson's. But damn I also don't think that's what it takes to beat freaking Wake Forest and not crap the bed against inferior competition. ‘11 and ‘12 Hokie | 1 month 4 days # ^ I listened to the TSL podcast when they listed the recruiting budgets and it does seem to correlate pretty well to recruiting classes save some standard deviations. You can always out recruit your budget and you can always out play your recruiting class and pre-season rank. UNC is recruiting some studs but I don't think they will make the most of them. But it's always easier to be on the money side. Rayo | 1 month 4 days # ^ I thought TSL did a great job discussing the loss in depth. They weren't really making excuses for the loss, they were explaining what happened in the game. Its a lot more intelligent than the "der Cornelson sucks" analysis. The offense ran a lot of good plays that just weren't executed. VTSnake | 1 month 3 days # ^ Have you read the thread you posted in? Holy Hot Takes Batman. This thing is out of control. VTJ12 | 1 month 3 days # ^ I'm just trying to point out what I think is a ridiculous take in that it takes elite resources to consistently win against a program like Wake Forest. I know this staff isn't going anywhere. In fact Fu, when/if he does leave, will likely leave on his own terms. But I just have to laugh at segments of our fan base who I feel will hold out hope forever in their minds that our current staff and program makeup will ever win at a consistent level. And when we have big setbacks or head scratchers like Saturday, the gut reaction of this segment is deflect any and all accountability from the staff and on the fans (i.e. money). I'll agree all day long when we lose to Clemson that we don't have the resources to compete and we should all step up to support the program to reach that goal. When we drop a game like Wake in the fashion we did, I'm not buying that as much. And if you want to pin it on the players for not being able to execute, simple - bring in better players. I don't think playcalling was particularly bad at all and I thought several of our plays were very well set up. But it's the little things that we still struggle with execution and discipline-wise, with a largely veteran cast now, that bug me about this program Bragghokie | 1 month 3 days # ^ simple - bring in better players. well it's settled then...have you called Fuente yet? VTJ12 | 1 month 3 days # ^ Maybe we still have some of those super secret silent commits out there that none of our fan base knows about? Who knows. Bragghokie | 1 month 3 days # ^ I hope so...perhaps they are waiting till signing day....but i've gotten to the point again where i'm not too upset about recruiting... bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 3 days # ^ And when we have big setbacks or head scratchers like Saturday, the gut reaction of this segment is deflect any and all accountability from the staff and on the fans (i.e. money). if you want to pin it on the players for not being able to execute, simple - bring in better players. Bringing in better players requires money. It takes time to scout players. It takes time to build and maintain relationships with players and high school coaches. It takes time to travel to meet those players. Time doing those things takes away from time coaching or analyzing film. Money helps pay salaries to delegate work and drive productivity. But it's the little things that we still struggle with execution and discipline-wise, with a largely veteran cast now, that bug me about this program Until Saturday, this was one of the most disapline teams of the country. In 5 games, we're averaging 52.2 yards of penalties per game, and that includes 112 yards against wake last week - if you ignore last week (because it's an outlier) you'll see that we're averaging 37 yards of penalties per game. That's a huge improvement over last year's 46 per game. That puts us in the country's top 20 most disciplined P5 teams (of those who have played at least one game this season). I don't think playcalling was particularly bad at all and I thought several of our plays were very well set up. But it's the little things that we still struggle with execution and discipline-wise, with a largely veteran cast now, that bug me about this program This goes back to my larger point... Wake Forest was just an off day - Our QB threw more pics in this one game than he has in his whole career. Players were missing blocks that they haven't missed at all this season. This game was just a bad day, and I don't think it was indicative of a larger trend (unlike past losses). EDIT: to clarify/simplify - I think this program has plenty of problems (mostly recruiting, but I also have concerns about school/fan backing), but I don't think the Wake result is really related to those issues. vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 3 days # ^ Hokie Club: Hello John, we are reaching out to you about your interest in contributing to the Hokie Club. John: Nah, I wont pay for losers. HC: Oh so you were once a member when we were routinely winning the conference, I didn't see your name on the list? John: Nah I didnt have enough money then. HC: Well, it was great talking to you today, I hope you reconsider when we get back to winning championships. John: If we get back to winning championships, why will you need my money? Apologies to anybody named John. Character is fictitious even though John may appear familiar to many. BullCityHokie | 1 month 3 days # ^ I'm not sure how anyone can just glide past the money argument, especially when it comes to recruiting. Alabama has (which means they pay for) a legion of analysts that includes former head coaches to do nothing but break down film. That's it, their whole job is to tell Nick Saban that when Auburn's tailback lines up half a yard to the left it means they run X play 67% of the time. Alabama has the money to pay a lot of people to do this. This means they are more prepared on gameday and coaches can spend time doing other things, like recruiting. It sucks to hear that rich programs do better in every facet of the game, but it's the truth. To compete at the highest level of the sport you have to spend at that level. Some fan bases do that and others don't. I mean, an LSU booster is spending a couple years in federal prison for embezzling nearly a million dollars from a hospital and chose to give $180,000 to a recruit's dad. Some fan bases are crazy. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 3 days # ^ I mean, I understand why the money argument gets downplayed/misunderstood: Part of it is the fact that VT still has Frank Beamer's finger prints everywhere, and he built the program without relying on all the support that Alabama, OSU, etc have. To be honest, I think this is something that the university as a whole is struggling with. On top of that, people see that a coach like PJ fleck can go into Minnesota and have an instant impact, and they say, why not here? Why is VT a rebuild when Minnesota was turned around in 3 years or less? Finally, people just don't have insight into how athletic departments work, so they are skeptical when they are told 'VT doesn't have resources' morange92 | 1 month 3 days # ^ No people have an issue with the justification when its used as the excuse when we lose to Duke, ODU, etc. If you want to make that argument to explain why we won't be realistically competing against the likes of Clemson and Alabama, then yeah of course it makes sense. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 3 days # ^ people have an issue with the justification when its used as the excuse when we lose to Duke, ODU, etc. More roster talent = higher expected outcomes. A good team has a 75% chance of beating duke. A great team has an 90% chance of beating duke. An elite team has a 99% chance of beating duke. I think, based on roster talent, this is a 'good' team. I don't think it is/was going to be a great team (2009 & 2010 were 'great' teams IMO, the 1999 team was an 'Elite' team). This team is one Tre Turner injury away from not having a single downfield threat. We were literally playing multiple walk-ons in our secondary 2 weeks ago. There's some talent on this roster, but we're lacking depth at multiple positions. We have a stud at running back, a great OL, and a talented QB. If one of those groups has an off day, we become very one dimensional. If our opponent is having a good day, they can take advantage of that. I don't think this is an 'excuse' because I'm not excusing the performance. This is just the reality of our current roster. Ultimately, the coaches are responsible for that roster, and I'm very concerned about what this roster will look like in 2 years when we're left with the 40th and 60th best recruiting class. Recruiting has to improve, and that will require financial support. Bragghokie | 1 month 3 days # ^ they aren't allow to have bad days at the office...... /s VTJ12 | 1 month 3 days # ^ This bad loss is not indicative of a larger trend and was a bad day at the office, but other bad losses were? Why do we exclude this loss from the others? Because we were performing so much better in those facets through the first four games? You can look at it both ways, but I see it as we weren't as good as we thought we were and are simply regressing toward the mean. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 3 days # ^ This bad loss is not indicative of a larger trend and was a bad day at the office, but other bad losses were? Because we were performing so much better in those facets through the first four games? A few reasons: The number of penalties is so far from the norm and such an outlier. Literally triple the average of the previous 4 games. We'll see what the remainder of the season holds, and I'm happy to change my opinion as data (this season) becomes more available, but for now, this seems like an abnormality. Turnovers are random (I've been through this a million times over the past few weeks). Again, this is literally Hooker's worst game at VT. He's probably not as good as his best, but he's not as bad as this. In his 10 or so games where he's played significant minutes, 9 of them have been significantly better than this. I assume his 'true level' is closer to those other 9 or so games. We outgained Wake. Teams that outgain are significantly more likely to win the game. HokieRif | 1 month 3 days # ^ Good for them on keeping a positive mindset, but I would say they are mistaken. The only thing in hindsight that Wake did that was well coached was they forced Hendon to throw, and they forced TOs because of it. Outside of that this was our game to lose and we showed-up unmotivated on offense. When the first three run plays of the game went to an individual not named Khalil Herbert i had a feeling it was going to be a rough afternoon... The offensive side of the ball way overthought this game and its inexcusable for the coaches to not get him the ball early and often. VPI | 1 month 3 days # Other fan bases that think their coaches stink and are failing in some way or another: USC, Penn St, Michigan, FSU, TxA&M, Tennessee, Auburn, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas and pretty much every other fanbase out there after a loss You want a way to get over a loss? Go to another school's boards after they lose and see how things are tough all over - I went to a PSU board and read about all of their grievances Saturday night and everything washed away even though because everything they said was eerily similar to what gets said here. vtnerf 🏌️♂️⛳🍀🍺🎣🧔⛈️ | 1 month 3 days # ^ We aren't other schools. Period. Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 3 days # ^ Its nice to see that Whataboutism has made its way to sports fandom as a convenient excuse to why the status quo should never, ever change Rayo | 1 month 3 days # ^ Who the fuck do you want to hire to replace Fuente? Please show me your shortlist of coaches who will do better. If Art Briles or Urban Meyer are up there, okay sure you have a point. I'm guessing they're not. vtnerf 🏌️♂️⛳🍀🍺🎣🧔⛈️ | 1 month 3 days # ^ Rayo | 1 month 3 days # ^ Okay sure but I'm tired of this same repeated bs by Alum. Who tf does he think will be a good replacement. He and the people who actively suggest/call for Fu to be fired have no real solution, they just expect Whit to pull out of his ass a coach that will win 9-10 games a year and never have an embarrassing loss. It's ridiculous. Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 3 days # ^ You don't have to have a short list to think we don't have the right guy in charge. You're trying to change the argument from the fact that Fuente isn't good to why someone else won't be good. You're trying to move the goalposts to take the attention off the problem we have right now to introduce a hypothetical argument about some list of names you're trying to get someone else to provide. I'm not going to oblige. I'm not going to shift the narrative to the hypothetical. What we have right now ain't cutting it. Lets discuss that. Rayo | 1 month 3 days # ^ It's not changing the argument. We have a guy right now that has 10, 9, and 8 win seasons in 3/4 years. Last i checked thats pretty good. Also last I checked when you fire a coach you have to hire someone else.. Would you like that guy to be better or worse? Due to covid, lack of candidates, buyout, and general common sense about his record, there is an exactly 0.0% chance we fire Fuente this offseason. And given that next year's roster will be loaded, and this season itself isn't even halfway over, I'd suggest just enjoying the ride and making that judgement when there's actually evidence to support it. dcwilson40 GT SUCKS AT PASSING | 1 month 3 days # ^ He's 26-20 against P5 teams at VT... I think we can find someone better. Vtkey | 1 month 3 days # ^ Welp. DC's back. dcwilson40 GT SUCKS AT PASSING | 1 month 3 days # ^ Correct and so is your shit posting... I post a plain fucking fact and you shit on it. But im the asshole. Vtkey | 1 month 3 days # ^ Nevermind. gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 3 days # ^ I was gonna let the comment go but you just HAD to go back and edit in everything after "all I said was that you're back". You've been around here long enough to know the line as to what's acceptable wrt personal attacks as per the CGs, so why intentionally cross that line? Vtkey | 1 month 3 days # ^ So I wasn't responding to an attack on my comment? gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 3 days # ^ Is your comment vaguely antagonistic? Sure. Did it warrant the tone of DC's reply? No. Did dc jump over the CG line with both feet? No. Did your original reply? No. Did you violate CGs when you went back and edited your reply? Yes. gobble gobble chumps PLS | 1 month 3 days # ^ Pls stop, dc. You've earned every bit of the reputation, no need to double down on it when someone snarks you Rayo | 1 month 3 days # ^ K who then dcwilson40 GT SUCKS AT PASSING | 1 month 3 days # ^ I don't care who. We can find a better coach. Rayo | 1 month 3 days # ^ Way better odds we hire the next Scottie Montgomery than just somehow find a guy who wins 10 games a year without an embarrassing loss. If you want to spin that roulette wheel I'm damn glad you're not our athletic director. VT_Warthog | 1 month 3 days # ^ Based on what? vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 3 days # ^ Considering most programs change coaches every five years or so, I would suspect that there are way more failed experiments than successes. And every one of those programs got "their" guy. A deep dive into the statistics would be interesting. I don't know how you would compare apples to apples based on job appeal though. Rayo | 1 month 3 days # ^ Uh the amount of consistent 10 win coaches in CFB vs the amount of bad ones VT_Warthog | 1 month 2 days # ^ If you would've said those odds are based on Fuente leaving (whether on his terms or ours) with an empty cupboard then I'd agree with you. boylejc2 | 1 month 3 days # ^ But you can't fire a coach without a plan in place to adequately replace that person. It doesn't work out well all that often. Look at Southern Miss - they fired Hopson after one game this year (after not elevating the program to competitiveness) and now their interim head coach just left to take over Austin Peay. We obviously have more resources than a Southern Miss type school, but you don't know what will happen. Who takes over? Which of the staff stays? Who goes? Does that require buyouts? There is over course still the issue of a buyout, which we can't afford at the moment. So maybe the problem isn't people supporting Fuente unconditionally - maybe it's people recognizing the situation and hoping for something positive to happen. I think Fuente is adequate, but doesn't move the needle. I don't think he gets another contract from us, but I recognize that he is probably the most cost effective answer for the next few years. Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 3 days # ^ Sure, the second I'm hired as Athletic Director, I'll tell you that plan. But seeing as how I don't hold that position and am not in charge of needing to determine a concise plan, I'll just stick to my observations of the current state. Which is that what we have now ain't cutting it. boylejc2 | 1 month 3 days # ^ Congrats on taking a position that can never be wrong I guess? Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 3 days # ^ I find it interesting and telling that taking the position of being critical of the current state without getting sucked into discussions on hypotheticals is somehow a position that cannot be wrong. Almost like the current state speaks for itself, and it cannot be defended. boylejc2 | 1 month 3 days # ^ Because it simplifies the issue at hand by reducing any nuance or points of discussion into "Fuente doesn't have it." It assumes that anything is better than now, without contemplating that there are a lot of unknowns to taking action. And any attempt to talk this through goes into the same evasive arguments without engagement. I agree things are frustrating, but just saying I want something done isn't really an opinion. vtnerf 🏌️♂️⛳🍀🍺🎣🧔⛈️ | 1 month 3 days # ^ To be fair, I'm tired of a lot of things... And saying there isn't a magic bullet of coach isn't an argument to say that Fu HAS to stay. It's Balcksburg. Getting kids to there is one hurdle. We're in a conference with Clemson. And Syracuse. Ugh. That's another hurdle. We have the worst conference network for football in the land. That's a hurdle. But saying that you don't know of a single person that will come in and win 9-10-12 games a year doesn't mean they don't exist. That's ridiculous. There has to be a culture fit in Blacksburg and at VT. There has to be buy in. There has to be a comfort with him at the helm of OUR team. There has to be a good fit. Just keeping what you have because you don't want to put the work in to find the correct fit is lazy, wrong-focused, and overall ridiculous. Rayo | 1 month 3 days # ^ Look around the league though. The wrong hire can set a program back for 5+ years. Do you want to be the next Nebraska? If we don't have the right guy to replace him then yes Fuente absolutely HAS to stay. Plus have some perspective, he's given us winning records. zblaetz 🏌🏻♂️🏈🦃 | 1 month 3 days # ^ We have back to back last place recruiting classes. The real damage hasn't even taken place yet and we just lost to Wake Forest with what was supposed to be our most talented roster under the Fuente umbrella. The trajectory is down, do you disagree? VT_Warthog | 1 month 3 days # ^ This is exactly it. Everyone keeps saying this is just a bad game. However, when the bad game happens against an inferior team when all signs point to this being the peak of the Fuente era then you can't really feel good. Rayo | 1 month 3 days # ^ It remains to be seen. We're 3-2 with an efficient offense an new look defense. We've got two dogfights coming up that we can win. I would be satisfied with a 7-4 season if we get beat by Clemson and Miami because this is a crazy year and we played 10 conference games. That would not be a downward trend, it would be about equal to last year (6-4 in conference compared to last year's 5-3, with Clemson added to the schedule). Then we get 2021 with a very experienced roster, "normal" spring practice etc. to judge Fuente by. BullCityHokie | 1 month 3 days # ^ The PAC12 network is worse than the ACC network. If you've never seen a game on the PAC12 network, don't worry, neither has anyone else. Without having actual numbers, I'm still willing to bet that significantly more people see the ACC network simply by virtue of its ESPN affiliation. Alum07 🍗 LEG MASTER 🍗 | 1 month 3 days # ^ brownrc | 1 month 3 days # ^ I mean, its a fair question. I don't have much confidence in Fuente to elevate the program at this point, but I also don't know who would do better. So, we have to weigh risks and benefits, and without knowing that we have someone on tap who can improve things, it's hard to justify pulling the trigger. vtnerf 🏌️♂️⛳🍀🍺🎣🧔⛈️ | 1 month 3 days # ^ It's not just a short list like he offered. See our basketball program. Rayo | 1 month 3 days # ^ The basketball head coaching market is not really similar to the football's at all. It is a pretty short list and you'd be very hard pressed to find someone with a better resume than Fuente's right now at VT. Luke Fickell is about the only one and so far he's only really beaten trash AAC teams, never won the conference and barely beaten any of the actual good teams. Plus most people were pretty adamant about having someone from the offensive side of the ball. That leaves the list at... yeah pretty short man. VT_Fencer JET SWEEP YPC 8.7 | 1 month 3 days # ^ he's only really beaten trash AAC teams, never won the conference and barely beaten any of the actual good teams. You ought to have considered who else this sounds like before posting. Memphis was in a three way tie in the AAC in 2014 for what it's worth, but all of those points don't really disqualify Fickell any more that it would have disqualified Fuente at the time. Rayo | 1 month 3 days # ^ Considering I was comparing his record to Fuente's your first sentence is kind of erroneous. I did consider it, that's why Fickell's record is not "better" than Fuente's. That doesn't disqualify him, it just (correctly) puts his 10 and 11 win seasons into perspective for level competition. But using that logic Memphis's win over Ole Miss is better than any of Cincy's wins under Fickell. vtnerf 🏌️♂️⛳🍀🍺🎣🧔⛈️ | 1 month 3 days # ^ You're looking too closely at it. We got a "name" at VT for basketball. He won some games, but never bought into the VT culture. He's gone. Always was going to be gone. We now have a guy that by all accounts buys into the VT culture. Players are happy, he's recruiting well, the program is on the rise. Yes. You can compare markets. Fit is fit. All around. But I get you want to be obtuse when arguing with Alum. Fine. Whatever. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 3 days # ^ In basketball, a non-blueblood school can be competitive with blueblood, so coaches can go to any school and have a shot at the championship. That's not the case in football. If you want to win a natty, there's only 15ish schools (tops) where you can be a 'fit.' vtnerf 🏌️♂️⛳🍀🍺🎣🧔⛈️ | 1 month 3 days # ^ Well, in that case, we will never win one, right? We aren't a blue blood, so no matter the coach.... And I'd take a peek at the bball champions list. Pretty good consistent company in there, and even the "oddballs" have a pretty good program history. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 3 days # ^ Well, in that case, we will never win one, right? We aren't a blue blood, so no matter the coach.... If were to place a wager, I would guess that VT never wins a national championship in football. But unlike many other people, I can believe that, but still enjoy every season, just because there's an infinitesimal chance that we will. I think for VT to win one, we couldn't just get a 'great' coach, but we'd need someone who is (1) super creative from an schematic standpoint, and (2) someone who love Appalachia. We had that in Beamer - revolutionary special teams coach who loved the area. Off the top of my head, there's maybe one coach every 5-10 years who I think is that creative - Chris Peterson, Mike Leach, Lincoln Riley, Chip Kelley come to mind. Maybe Lance Leipold is very creative. And I'd take a peek at the bball champions list. Pretty good consistent company in there, and even the "oddballs" have a pretty good program history. Since 1998 (when the BCS was a thing), you've had 27 different schools play for a championship. In that same span, there are 15 different football programs who have played for a national championship. If you want to compare final four teams to CFP teams - there have been 11 teams in the past 6 years to play in a CFP game. In that same span, 20 different teams have made a Final Four appearance (AND, the last 3 years have had 12 different teams). Literally twice as much parity exists in NCAA basketball than NCAA football. vtnerf 🏌️♂️⛳🍀🍺🎣🧔⛈️ | 1 month 3 days # ^ Literally twice as much parity exists in NCAA basketball than NCAA football. There's nearly 3 times the number of basketball programs in D1 (350 vs 120). So twice the number of schools, with 3 times the amount of options, is actually LESS parity. Percentage wise, it's even harder/tougher in basketball with less of a chance of making it. freefall | 1 month 3 days # ^ It's only a single data point, but tOSU chose to hire a relative unknown when Meyer was forced to resign. Ryan Day had zero head-coaching experience and had only been an assistant there for a little over a year when he was promoted. And that's a program that has no problem throwing money at anyone they want. Outside of Texas I don't believe there's anyone with deeper pockets. I'm not sure that the list of potential head coaches is as limited as you think. How many more Ryan Days are out there, just waiting for an opportunity? I'm not saying it's an easy decision, or that there's an obvious right choice. But I don't think it's wise to simply sit back and say that there's no one we could possibly hire who will definitely do a better job, because it's not possible to know that. Maybe our fatal flaw is thinking that we have to hire someone with a better resume to begin with? Unfortunately, the buyout looms large over this discussion. We have maneuvered ourselves into a position where we probably can't make a change for the next few years, even if we want to. VT_Fencer JET SWEEP YPC 8.7 | 1 month 3 days # ^ Not related to the discussion about our program, but at first I thought Ryan Day was just the beneficiary of Ohio State's funding Death Star. That any coach given the resources of a top 5 program should be able to succeed regardless of actual ability. Then I remembered Tom Herman and basically everything else that's happened at Texas for the past decade. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 3 days # ^ I think running a team like OSU is a different skillset than running a Boise State for example. Kind of like how there are startup founders who are terrible at running a legacy/established company, and their are seasoned executives who couldn't run a start up to save their lives. freefall | 1 month 3 days # ^ Or Alabama pre-Saban, or U$C post-Carroll, or Auburn, or Tennessee, or Florida/Miami/F$U.... hell, even Oklahoma, under Stoops and now Riley, isn't where they want to be, despite a record that damn near any other program would be thrilled with. Having a pedigree and virtually unlimited money definitely helps, but isn't a guarantee of success, that's for sure. Rayo | 1 month 3 days # ^ That hire was inside the program though. We're talking about getting a guy externally. Plus Day hasn't had to build his own program, just sustain one that he was a part of. I get the comparison but that logic can't apply to our situation, it's too dissimilar. bar1990 ATLIEN | 1 month 3 days # ^ I very much have the same opinion - we hear a ton of bitching, but no one offers a realistic solution. A name I've heard is Will Healy at Charlotte. Suppose we have a $7m budget for 10 coaches. We could hire Healy for $850k, then hire top coordinators for $1.5m each, then have $3.15M to spend on the remaining position coaches. Regardless of if/when Fuente leaves, I think we should a CEO/Recruiter for HC at a low price, and hire expert tacticians as coordinators. EDIT: For some reason I was under the impression that this wasn't unheard of, but I am completely wrong - The lowest paid P5 coach appears to be Jonathan Smith, and he makes $2.4m in 2020. The highest paid coordinator (in 2019) was Dave Aranda, at $2.5m VT_Fencer JET SWEEP YPC 8.7 | 1 month 3 days # ^ I have a hard time believing any coach would willingly hire coordinators that make more than they do. I'm willing to admit I'm wrong if there are any examples of this happening though. I just don't track it closely enough. VTJ12 | 1 month 3 days # ^ I don't think we would ever get away for hiring an HC for $850,000 at this level. Would need to be, within reason, more competitive with P5 salaries. But otherwise, I would completely agree with going this route considering our financial picture. Why put the majority of your resources into one person who realistically delegates a ton of responsibilities when you could spread your resources around more efficiently and afford more/better assistants and support staff. Just think of what we could do with an HC more in the $2-2.5 mil range instead of $4 currently. hokieforever12 | 1 month 3 days # https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/acc/2020/10/25/hoisted-high-... vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 3 days # ^ Good for him HokieRif | 1 month 3 days # ^ Does the ACC have an anti-corruption and bribery policy? Hooker absolutely gifted 2 of those INTs, and then this kid gets lined-up for a scholarship? It doesn't pass the smell test /s vsaxena SHOULD BE MORE + | 1 month 3 days # I'm just glad we all agree that the teams performance isn't on the coaches and the players. It's our fault for not donating enough money! VT has a great engineering school lets get the Robotics and Mechatronics lab to build CoachBot 2.0, this way we do not have to pay for coaches. CoachBot 2.0 doesn't need sleep. He can recruit around the clock. He can learn not to call jet sweeps. He can develop a proper route tree for WRs. Sure he isn't a great interview and the boosters can't relate (because they don't speak the binary language of moisture evaporators) but trying the same as thing and expecting different results is insanity. Invent the Future! vtcivengr 🔑 | 1 month 3 days # ^ I don't think I am ready for CoachBot to be the head whistle. He really doesn't have P5 experience and could be a safety liability on the sideline. Maybe he should just be a coordinator at a blueblood for a while until he is ready to make the jump. HokieAlum6144 | 1 month 3 days # ^ I did hear the CoachBot's behavior is just flat out shocking in rain games. vsaxena SHOULD BE MORE + | 1 month 3 days # ^ CoachBot doesn't care about the weather as long as its dry. CoachBot doesn't need P5 experience. With time dilation he can sim a million seasons in 4 seconds. CoachBot knows everything in minute detail at a glance. "If God did not exist it would be necessary to invent him." - Voltaire AZHokie | 1 month 3 days # ^ HATIN' ON COACHBOT - CoachBot doesn't like cake or pie wisec4g | 1 month 3 days # ^ I'll provide the CPU & AI Hokieflyguy | 1 month 3 days # ^ All joking aside I have suggested multiple times that we get the VT marketing and communication students to run part of the Hokie Club or design a fundraiser. Make it part of the curriculum. It's cheap labor that doesn't need to be hired, there's tons of them, they know technology and they will become invested, which is exactly what we need. zblaetz 🏌🏻♂️🏈🦃 | 1 month 3 days # ^ This is a crazy cool idea. Throw some perks in on game days/media access and you have people fighting to get in the program. You get a fresh new set of ideas every year with a new class. They can't just be cold callers like some of the jobs up there. Truly get them involved. I think the students should be more involved anyway, after all it is their peers. Hokieflyguy | 1 month 3 days # ^ Thank you. And the students get legit "real world" experience. Hokieflyguy | 1 month 3 days # I love logging onto TKP and seeing the thread titled Don't Burn the Site Down have another 75 new comments every day. Alum doing his thing, VTKey defending Fuente as always, DCWilson showing up with his IDGAF commentary. It's wonderful and all I can think of is Mel Gibson as William Wallace in Braveheart looking at the second English fort they have overrun and saying "Burn it" in that thick Scottish accent. Can anyone help me with the gif?? FudBoster HUSTINJAMILTON | 1 month 3 days # ^ Hokieflyguy | 1 month 3 days # ^ Thanks broseph HorseOnATreadmill | 1 month 3 days # This thread got less fun recently. When is it considered burning the site down? zblaetz 🏌🏻♂️🏈🦃 | 1 month 3 days # ^ When we kick Louisville's ass, have you learned nothing? HokieRif | 1 month 3 days # ^ I'm sure there is a BTAN article being worked right now that models the predicted fun level of a thread pre-, during, and post-game, inclusive of sections such as "When Alum Starts a Sub-Thread", and "TKP most closely resembles..." after a loss. Joe Lanza PUBLISHER | 1 month 2 days # Kind of interesting — this thread was OK immediately after the loss, but then caught fire. Y'all let's stop with the name calling and combative back and forth.