Texas, OU Reach Out to SEC to Join Conference

Texas and Oklahoma of the Big 12 have both reached out to the Southeastern Conference about potentially joining the powerful league, a high-ranking college official with knowledge of the situation told the Houston Chronicle on Wednesday.

An announcement could come within a couple of weeks concerning the potential addition of UT and OU to the league, the person said, which would give the SEC 16 schools and make it the first of a national super-conference.

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Comments

Let the games begin!

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Its a good thing VT is so well positioned in prestige during this time of....aww shucks....

I KNEW IT I KNEW IT I ABSOLUTELY FREAKING KNEW IT

Go back to all the old realignment threads from back in the day and tell me I didn't know it.

Thanks, I hate it.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Texas A&M probably not a fan of this lol. So if this is the end of the Big 12, have to think this leads to large-scale realignment.

have to think this leads to large-scale realignment.

ND and the cousins are coming to the ACC?

VT and Clemson are going to the SEC?

Kick out Mizzou that was a bad marriage from the start

They're gonna want Clemson. Question is, do they also want us or UNC or just Clemson

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Ugh right. If I were them I'd go for UNC first, Clemson second, and us third.

Too bad UNC is to the ACC as Texas is to the Big 12ish. They can write their own ticket.

UNC and Duke are the ACC. Zero chance they leave

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

I would have said the same thing about Texas and Oklahoma and the Big12 two days ago....

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Meh, if any conference was on a shaky foundation it was then. They have lost Nebraska, Missouri, A&M and Colorado before this and Texas and Oklahoma were looking to jump the.man also but couldn't make it work.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Fair, but UNC and Duke have more history with the ACC and imo loyalty to it than Texas and OU have with the Big12. They also care more about academics and basketball. Would be more concerned about them going to the Big10.

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

why would they want VT over UVA/UNC?

Football prestige, they damn sure ain't taking UVA. UNC would be a possibility tho

Except....
UVA is on the rise in football, is a national brand in basketball/baseball, better pedigree in Olympic sports, and much closer to the DC/Richmond market.

I could see it happening.

That's like saying a conference is trying to get Nebraska lol. What little prestige we had is gone my friend. We didnt reach high enough heights to hang onto it this long.

If Texas and OU goes to the SEC, I don't think they're expanding past that 16. Any additional realignment would probably be with the other leagues.

I think you would start to see the conferences try to band together against the SEC. Someone on Reddit suggested the PAC and Big10 creating an alliance to schedule more OOC games to create a pseudo-super conference. But I could see the ACC and SEC doing the same thing in retaliation.

I also saw a rumor about Texas joining the ACC instead of the SEC so who knows

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Retaliation? I doubt that they would, but if all the other schools banded together, the NCAA could mandate only one school from each conference could play for the national title - that would throw some cold water on the "super conferences". I realize that the broadcast companies would fight that but if they would stand together it MIGHT work.

Ut Prosim Ad Dei Gloriam

I don't think the NCAA has the spine to do that. That would just give the SEC more reason to splinter off

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

How does the NCAA really work? If it is just a committee of executives who someday hope to move up to the "big leagues", then I would agree. If it is a bunch of individual colleges that are more interested in the future of their schools athletic programs, it could motivate them to join together for their own common good. The idealist in me would like to see David take down the Goliath SEC - the realist in me doubts it as much as as your post.

Ut Prosim Ad Dei Gloriam

The NCAA is a Co-op. It's run by the ADs/Presidents of schools, for the ADs/Presidents of schools. The presidents can make the NCAA whatever they want. David could take down Goliath, but then Goliath would leave (which is what we're seeing now).

Twitter me

I would have to think those are two logical moves if the ACC wants to survive and remain competitive. Also permanently scrap divisions for better/more appealing tv schedule. That has to be what this OU/UT to SEC move is all about. Constant big games on TV. This might be the end of P5/FCS and G5 games.

The bigger move would be if the ACC could somehow poach PSU away from the Big Ten to pair with ND. But WVU would be most likely.

This might be the end of P5/FCS and G5 games.

Just create a superleague and get it over with at this point. Get rid of Vanderbilt, Mizzou etc., bring in Clemson and the rest of the ACC powers.

They would never kick Vandy out of the SEC

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Good lord, could you imagine the drop in average GPA if they did?

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Are people still pretending that matters?

SEC rejected West Virginia in part for that very reason.

It's also probably a big factor as to why Boise hasn't ended up in the Pac-12.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

Also Alabama already fills their quota for inappropriate family relations jokes

The jokes are appropriate for a bunch of people married to their own brothers and sisters!

My 2020 Season/Covid19 Challenge: only comment with Marvel memes.

My 2019 Season Challenge: only comment with Star Wars memes. (completed as of Nov. 29)

No way PSU is leaving the Big 10. The TV revenue ain't even remotely close and I doubt the ACC would be able to bring it close enough with any sort renegotiation based on adding additional teams.

You're 100% right on all counts.

However, PSU is the little brother of the B1G. They've been treated poorly by their own conference for a long time. I've been trying to negotiate their move to the ACC for a long time, and they're highly receptive to it.

Unfortunately, I'm only talking to discussion board jockeys like myself, so... no dice.

If this happens College Football should go to the Euro Soccer System with a playoff still.

Something like 32 teams, 4 divisions, Division winners plus 4 make the playoff, bottom of each division + 2-4ish drops down.

Then have like a 32 team second tier, 3rd tier etc

Bama, Clemson, Ohio State, half the SEC and top 3rd of B1G will be where they are, but gives everyone else something to shoot for that is more realistic.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Nobody is going to sign up to drop down.

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

I think it's more going to be the 32 richest teams are going to leverage their media ability to break away and move up as opposed to anybody initially moving down.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I think whats great about CFB is not having those tiers. Everyone gets a decent shot (obv not even close to being fair, but technically everyone gets one). Clear tier systems would take away a lot of the excitement imo

It's all about the $$$. SEC payout versus Big12 payout is your answer right there. Ten million reasons.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

See Murland...and the B1G.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Looks like Houston and Cincinnati will be getting calls from the front offices of the (not so) Big-12 real soon.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

Nah, Houston wants the PAC or ACC.

CompSci

UH BS 20, VT MS 23.

Go Coogs, Go Hokies.

I know I know, geography doesn't matter any more, but when I think Pacific-12 or Atlantic Coast, I definitely think Houston Texas ๐Ÿคฃ

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

B12 and WVU XD XD XD

In all surprise, if there's a Texas market and they want to go for it, we are here.

There was a rumor about the B1G a few years back but I'll believe that the Blacksburg Gumby's had a rating above half a star before that.

CompSci

UH BS 20, VT MS 23.

Go Coogs, Go Hokies.

Why Weaver and Beamer WHYYYYY

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Actually, we can probably put the blame on Burruss. VT could have been one of the OG SEC teams.

I've never understood why we didn't leave the socon to go to the SEC

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Academics first.

Or as someone else in that thread put it, all of the guys that are buildings are named after were nerds.

Will likely go down as the biggest blunder in the history of VT Athletics. But that decision was way above Weaver and Beamer. The VT higher ups had always wanted to rub shoulders with their "peers" in the ACC. VT football's usefulness to many higher ups ended the day we joined the ACC.

I think we've all had a few aneurysms discussing Weaver's decision over the past few years. Right now, I want to see VT football run the Coastal again. But dammit if we get an invite to leave, I hope Whit makes the right decision.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I still believe that VT to the SEC would have been a failure for all sports. We would have gone in serious debt upgrading out stadium, We wouldn't have won the conference at all. Weaver didn't have the fund raising ability to keep up with the rest of the conference. We would basically be Kentucky.

The other sports would be cut or severely underfunded to support football. At the time we moved and would take on massive debt the SEC wasn't making money like they were now.

In the game against USC to open 2004 the announcers were talking about the ACC possibly being the best conference because of VT, Miami, and FSU. Obviously the SEC took offense, used their refs to call a bad game against VT which caused an undefeated Auburn to not play for the championship game. But it was not a slam dunk in many people's minds that the SEC was better than the ACC. In my mind it was a more brutal conference and would have eaten VT alive after the first few years.

The SEC won national titles for several straight years before the first expansion bubble. Yes, we would have normalized to several 8-4 seasons, but recruiting would have been on the uptick, and we would be competing. 8-4 gets you the Outback Bowl and a huge bowl payout compared to the... checks notes...Quick Lane Bowl.

The SEC East was lacking for several years after expansion. It was ripe for the taking.

I do agree the Olympic sports would have been in a tough spot, but the SEC was willing to start sponsoring a few sports that they currently don't, to get VT and NC State. Men's soccer being one of them. Kentucky and South Carolina are the only SEC men's soccer programs and they compete in CUSA. Conference needs 4 to sponsor.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

So if we join in 2012 when we have one if our best recruiting classes, but had a bad year cause we messed up 2 previous classes and we lose to a bad Pitt team, and an okay Cindy team and get destroyed by a stacked SEC east how does our recruiting get better from a 4 win season? It doesnt get much worse than losing to Vandy your first season.

Also how much does our recruiting improve? Who have we lost out on that was a 4* or 5* player that went to a middle of the pack SEC team? PSU, Clemson, and FSU are the big name teams taking VA recruits. That doesn't change if were in the SEC.

So now we get steam rolled our first year and then what does Beamer do? Calls to fire him come a lot sooner, he had bought himself a 7-6 season with all his winning, but what about 4-8? How does 2013 go? Sure the SEC east was down but Duke won the coastal.
We lost to not good UMd and BC teams. Does Beamer make it 2 more seasons?

2012 would have been a horrible season to move to the SEC for VT.

2012 would have mirrored Mizzou's year, where they played for the SEC title. That alone would have bolstered recruiting.

I mean, the pitch alone, I don't think we lose all those recruiting misses in 2011, 12, 13 when we're pitching joining the SEC.

ACC: yeah, we play Duke, Wake Forest...

SEC: We play Tennessee every year at Bristol, in front of the largest CFB crowd, on a massive fucking race track.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I went to Bristol and would never do that again.

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. ๐ŸŽฃ

hella fun and awesome environment, took me 3.5 hours to get out of the lot afterwards

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

really? I found the exit incredibly efficient and got out of there pretty fast, my friends and I were sarcastically joking "its almost like they've done like this before"

VT '17

I'll do it again in a heartbeat. Best atmosphere I ever attended. The game ...eh... but I had fun.

Maybe we do home-away-Bristol, and put it on an every 3 year basis had we joined the SEC.

This game was talked about when my brother was a freshman at VT in 1996, so it was amazing to have actually happened, finally, after so many years.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

we'll always have the first quarter ๐Ÿ’”

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

It was a great time, I loved it. I will also never go to another football game there.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

Yes, we would have normalized to several 8-4 seasons, but recruiting would have been on the uptick, and we would be competing.

It is more of a 'could have' not a 'would have' IMO. I do agree that, financially, VT would have been better off long term in the SEC, but I'm not convinced Beamer's staff would've seen an improvement in recruiting due to just being in the SEC. I also think there would've been some 3 win seasons in addition to those 8 win seasons. It's possible that VT could have performed exactly like Mizzou (won the east a few times, then fallen off a cliff).

8-4 gets you the Outback Bowl and a huge bowl payout compared to the... checks notes...Quick Lane Bowl.

ACC and SEC are both profit sharing leagues. It doesn't matter what bowl WE go to; all the money from all the bowls goes into one pot, and it's divided up evenly.

Twitter me

ACC and SEC are both profit sharing leagues. It doesn't matter what bowl WE go to; all the money from all the bowls goes into one pot, and it's divided up evenly.

If you're in a conference that goes to higher tier bowls, then each team would get more money. I have not researched the numbers, but I would imagine that if you combine the bowl money from the SEC vs. ACC, the SEC payout would be larger. Someone please correct me if my assumption is wrong. If true, there is more value being in the SEC even if you're a team that goes to crappy bowls.

Your general understanding is correct, however, for most P5 conferences, the amount of teams who go bowling matters more than the bowl 'tier' (once you get passed the playoff/NY6 bowls). The difference between payout for the quicklane bowl and the outback bowl is pretty negligible once it's split 14 ways. The SEC tends to make more money because they have more teams that make it to the playoff/NY6. Here's a breakdown: https://businessofcollegesports.com/football/college-football-playoff-pa...

Also - The SEC pays out bonuses to teams that make NY6 games, which is interesting:

Note: The SEC allows the school participating in the semifinals to keep $2.05 million, with an additional $2.15 million if the team makes it to the championship game.

Twitter me

Oh goodie, it's been a while since I've done one of these kind of posts, comparing stuff.

I'm using the numbers from the link bar1990 posted above. I don't know exactly what the numbers represent. They could be the total payout to both teams which may or may not be an equal split. Or they could be the payout for each team. I'm going to assume that these numbers are for each team in the game.

Since the payout numbers are for the 2019-2020 bowls, I will look at the bowls that the SEC and ACC were contracted to in that season. I'm ignoring the CFP/NY6, since that's extra on top.

ACC (8 bowls)
Camping World - Orlando, FL: $6,071,760
Gator Bowl - Jacksonville, FL: $5,350,000 OR Music City - Nashville, TN: $5,700,000
Belk - Charlotte, NC: $4,780,461
Sun - El Paso, TX: $4,550,000
Pinstripe - Bronx, NY: $4,400,000
Military - Annapolis, MD: $2,066,990
Independence - Shreveport, LA: $2,200,000
Quick Lane Bowl - Detroit, MI: $2,000,000

Grand total: $31,419,211 or $31,769,211
If the ACC got the Citrus Bowl slot, it would bump the totals to $39,643,789 or $39,993,789

Average payout from 8 bowls: $3,971,151

SEC (9 bowls)
Citrus - Orlando, FL: $8,224,578
Outback - Tampa, FL: $6,400,000
Gator Bowl - Jacksonville, FL: $5,350,000
Music City - Nashville, TN: $5,700,000
Texas - Houston, TX: $6,400,000
Belk - Charlotte, NC: $4,780,461
Liberty - Memphis, TN: $4,700,000
TicketSmarter Birmingham - Birmingham, AL: $1,374,545
Independence - Shreveport, LA: $2,200,000

Grand total: $45,129,584
If you take out the Independence Bowl to even out the bowls between the two conferences, that's still $42,929,584.

Average payout from 9 bowls: $5,014,398

Of course, there's plenty of other variables, such as teams in the NY6, total number of eligible teams in the conferences, and then potentially picking up other smaller bowls if there's more teams than slots. But even with all of those considerations, the ACC would have to have all of the stars align to make out with more bowl money than the SEC.

Basically, the ACC would need all of this to happen:
-more teams in the NY6 than the SEC.
-B1G playing the Orange Bowl, giving the ACC the Citrus Bowl slot.
-have 10+ bowl eligible teams, although more like 12 to pick up the extra NY6 games, Citrus Bowl, and other conditional bowls.
-SEC has fewer than 10 bowl eligible teams, and can't fill all of their contracted slots.

All of that to say, yes, it doesn't matter which bowl each individual team goes to because they're just splitting the pot. But the SEC has a bigger pot, so in theory, a Vandy team going to the Birmingham Bowl is still getting more bowl money than a Duke going to the Quick Lane Bowl.

Thanks for doing the leg work!

"Hello, this is the BYU athletic department, how may I direct your call?"

"Yes, our football team is still an independent program."

"Yes, I suppose our football players like Tex-Mex food, why do you ask?"

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

Baylor, TCU, Ok St, Kansas (for bball) to PAC.
Iowa St and ND (ACC is going get big dogged) to the big 10.
WVU and Cincy to the ACC.
Texas Tech and Kansas St to the AAC.

Awesome I would love to split the BIG TV money for the next 14 years that ND wouldn't get if they joined them.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

This is the ACC chance to get ND full time. B1G has the TV deal, the regional rivalries, and better brand. They would certainly go after ND to keep up with the SEC.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

They can't unless ND wants to give up TV rights until 2036.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Those deals have out clauses in them.

One beef - Kansas would go to the B1G. ND is still a wildcard in my book. If the ACC adds Navy, ND is ours.

Lol Notre Dame isn't going to let fucking Navy determine what conference they're going to join.

And Navy will not be joining the ACC. Their mission, first and foremost, is to produce Naval officers, and they will not have the athletic tail wagging that dog. I guarantee you. And they also won't join a P5 conference without AF and Army joining, too.

There was an interview with a former Navy basketball coach, that threw some light on their thinking, and it pretty much put the kibosh on Navy joining a power conference.

Mission first. Period.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Whatchu talking about shipmate, money is the mission!

"I don't know how many years on this earth I got left. I'm gonna get real weird with it." -Dr. Mantis Toboggan

Mission first. Period.

.
Just as it should be. The proper role of the service academies is to develop the men and women that protect our nation often at the expense of their own lives. The USA pays for their education and gets a certain number of years of service for that financial commitment (some exceptions, I know).

I'm proud of what I got out of VT and the VTCC in education and opportunities. At the time, I did not think of the graduates of the academies as better men (I think that there were still only men at there at the time) than myself, but that might very well the ego of a 21 year old male.

Ut Prosim Ad Dei Gloriam

There is zero, repeat ZERO, fucking chance that the PAC takes Baylor. There are several schools in the PAC that have diametrically opposing views from a religious-based school. Think stem-cell research and stuff like that. I remember hearing that back during the Texas to PAC discussions, and that stuck with me.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

ACC and B1G need to merge, trim some fat, and pick up ND as a full member (I just hope VT isn't considered fat, though under this regime we're well on our way to being just that - here's hoping Fuente is right and this team is actually good)

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

ACC needs to snag WVU in the fire sale and see if we can lure away Kentucky, South Carolina, and Florida with a sweetheart deal. ACC needs to lock down the coast and Appalachia. Throw in Maryland and Penn State from the BIG and we have a super conference.

Pitch would be:

Kentucky: Great basketball fit, same conference as rival, and you may actually have a chance to win some football games.

South Carolina: same conference as rival, may actually win the conference in football occasionally.

Florida: same conference as rival, potentially dominate football.

Why would Kentucky, USCe, and Florida leave the SEC to go to the ACC, especially with the TV deal we have...

Not saying I think they ever would. But theoretically, UK and USCe wouldn't have much of a chance competing for a championship in the SEC if Texas and Oklahoma joined. TV revenue is great but winning football games is better.

I think you underestimate the $$$$$. While they may love football, they love $$$$$ for the entire university more.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Yeah I don't think it's realistic but would be good to have all the major schools in the coastal states.

With the absolute sick money involved, I don't see anyone leaving the SEC. They would be fools to do so

Truth. Nobody is leaving the $EC unless they get pushed out, which ain't happening. I can easily see four mega-conferences of 16 teams with the Big12 going away like the Big Least.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

For all the money this is going to generate for Texas & OU (as well as the rest of the SEC), I think these moves made in the name of revenue generation will have a real negative effect on their competitiveness.

Texas has one 10-win season in the last 11 years. Maybe the lure of being in the SEC will help them, but they have so many internal issues with regards to booster culture that have hampered their ability to maximize their ridiculous money advantages in the Big 12... how's that going to play in the SEC?

I think OU is better positioned to be competitive in the SEC, but they're not likely to be in the national conversation every year like they are in the Big 12.

I guess at the end of the day, $$$ always talks.

i hate realignment talk. i am always worried VT will get left out somehow.

I wouldn't be surprised if Liberty literally buys their way into a Power 5 conference this time around.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

I think there's real trepidation from conferences about Liberty, and their culture. Otherwise they would be in a G5 league at the very least at this point.

Fuck Liberty. Fuck them. Billions in church money doesn't make you a P5 school. Virginia Fucking Tech was shunned by many as not being "worthy" to join the ACC after decades of competing in major athletics. Fuck Liberty. Earn your fucking rep. They didn't have a football stadium 15 years ago. They can fuck off- all the way off. VT should have never helped boost them by giving them games.

This sub-thread was locked by a moderator.

I'll never understand why we bowed down to Liberty's level and put them on the schedule. Was it laziness? Was an in state school just easier to schedule and figure out the logistics? I can't think of any other reason to do it.

This sub-thread was locked by a moderator.

They were cheaper than other non-con deals.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

This sub-thread was locked by a moderator.

Cheaper isn't always better is my point. If it comes down to ease of scheduling or cost of scheduling that is not a good enough reason for me personally. Like others did with ECU, I will donate more when Liberty is off the schedule.

This sub-thread was locked by a moderator.

If you look at it totally objectively, there is no positive for VT playing ODU or Liberty. None. Nada. Zilch. You beat them by 40, you were supposed to beat them by 40. You lose to them, your recruiting ceiling immediately goes to 3 star level and you are a laughing stock on sportscenter. No benefit. None. I guess you save money by being able to bus to Liberty- that's in the totally bullshit event that you actually agree to play a road game there- which we inexplicably did. There is no positive for VT with either series.

This sub-thread was locked by a moderator.

The ACC will always be a "power" league. So VT will be fine in terms of access to NY6 bowls and the playoffs. The hoops league will remain the best in the country- all things considered. VT will be fine if the SEC expands.

If you are going to compete in the SEC, you have to be in the footprint of the recruiting hotbeds that made the SEC what it is today. Texas and Oklahoma could survive it. I do not think VT could for those that have that pipe dream.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Would moving to the SEC brand help VT actually own the DMV recruiting area? Would we be able to keep Franklin, Dabo and Mack at bay? If so, we could compete. If not, you are 100% correct. There is enough DMV, NC and SC talent that VT could potentially grab, we just don't consistently. The SEC brand might help that.

My gut says no. I dont feel like our misses are all going to the SEC, they are sort of scattered everywhere. To provide a better answer, I would need to deep dive into where most regional recruits are signing now and also look at a team like Missouri to see what kind of expected bump the SEC patch would bring. I do think SEC money helps, but doesn't cure all.

While the SEC is my favorite brand of non-hokie football to watch, at the moment I think the ACC is the best place for VT. Not to even mention all the political influences. Remember that we were not originally on the ACC list for expansion until it got political.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

While SEC money would enable us to build a vegas style casino with player rooms and lounges on the drill field and hire a 3 mil a year OC- which I'm told we need to win the coastal, I agree with you. We would need to win big, and put a bunch of players in the NFL to pass Clemson and Penn state in our recruiting ground.

Where can I contribute to putting a casino on the drillfield? Are there going to be craps tables? How much will it cost to get in as an alum?

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

As I stated above, I think our recruiting takes a huge leap forward. Recruits know we'll play games in some of the best atmospheres in college football, against the best teams in college football.

Even if we have a tough season, and go 6-6, we still get a bigger bowl payout, plus having 2 teams in the BCS/CFP gives added revenue. Then add in SEC Network, and we would have multiplied our recruiting budget alone.

Huge miss by Weaver.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Recruits know we'll play games in some of the best atmospheres in college football, against the best teams in college football.

This is a huge selling point that gets missed by a lot of people when trying to understand the SEC dominance in recruiting (9-12 top 25 classes a year are SEC teams). No conference guarantees as many big time games in big time atmospheres as the SEC can, each and every season, via the regular season. You don't even have to make a bowl game to play in front of 80k+ multiple times, in primetime, etc. Most of these kids know that only a handful of teams even have a shot at a national title each year, but they still want to compete against the best and play in big games in front of lots of fans.

Let's look at Arkansas this season, for example. The players on Arkansas' roster will get to play Texas in front of their home fans in week 2 (big OOC, just icing on the cake). Two weeks later they play A&M in the Cowboys Stadium. This sucks for fans, but for a player this is a really cool experience. A week later they get to travel to Athens, GA, the best college town in America imo, to play at Georgia in front of 93k fans. Next they go to Ole Miss, one of the "small" SEC stadiums in relative terms (64k), to play against a high flying Lane Kiffin led team that will probably built up in the media as a Matt Corral revenge game all week. A week later you head home to host Auburn. In November they head to Death Valley to play LSU, followed by playing in Bryant Denny against Alabama a week later.

No other conference can offer that kind of schedule year in and year out. Just insane levels of exciting matchups, competing against the best. Compare that to our schedule for the last 5 years.

Wow! I'm jealous of all SEC schedules. Can you imagine having that slate of games rather than Duke, ODU, Wake, etc?

I agree, and as a college student it's an even bigger draw. I'm doing everything in my power to make trips with my friends to Athens, Baton Rouge, Tuscaloosa, etc. If I'm a student at any of these other schools. We currently have one, maybe two interesting away games a season.

But the students at those schools are getting bored with some of their games. Even Saban and Bama have had to step up efforts to keep students in their seats. It's great for us "paying fans" would love that kind of game setup, but don't see how it changes the overal trend of student attendance across the board. Also would be interesting to see how it would have played in VA. A state with many divided loyalties or downright uncaring attitudes towards college football.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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While true, this is a very different phenomenon than what I am talking about. Student Bama fans do often leave games early when they are blowing out the opposition at home, but that doesn't mean they aren't still traveling to party in The Grove or heading to Athens to have a good time before playing at Georgia, etc.

Additionally, Bama isn't the program that is even benefitting or relying on this specific pitch I mentioned in my original comment in this thread. It's something that is appealing to recruits of the middle and lower tier SEC teams. The conversation has transitioned to how it is also a benefit to the students and fans, but the original point was its value to recruiting.

Our big misses could have gone SEC but instead went to Clemson and FSU, how does being in the SEC help that?

I dont know what a huge leap forward is but there is absolutely no way we can compete with Bama, Auburn, LSU, UF, UGA, Texas, Texas A&M, OU, FSU, Miami, Clemson, USC, Oregon, Ohio State, Michigan, PSU. So best we can do is 17th. We were 20-25th typically at the time. Thats not massive.

My last post on this, and I promise I won't poke this bear again.

Our big misses could have gone SEC but instead went to Clemson and FSU, how does being in the SEC help that?

See Chris' post above. Add in playing for legendary Frank Beamer, we would have had some studs on the field going into 2012/13/14. Maybe Hand, Nnadi et al come to Blacksburg and play in the SEC. Maybe we finally have the recruiting budget to compete with FSU and Clemson.

But we won't know. Weaver was adamant about staying in the ACC. I don't know if there was blackmail, or a Bonjagles lifetime meal deal, he refused after the phone call, the email, the letter, everything. Maybe he thought it was the class thing to do, after all the trouble Virginia politicians took to get UVA and VT in the same conference. But, hindsight is 20/20. We missed out.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

No problems poking the bear ... we need a more interactive discussion than a message board for these sports bar type arguments

Texas fires coaches for 8-4 seasons. What are they going to do when they go 6-6 every single year in this move.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

With the right coach, Texas can play for the MNC regularly. Mack made some dumb hires late in his tenure - that was his downfall. Brian Harsin wasn't ready for that OC gig, and the Brian Kelly approach to firing DC's every year didn't work for Mack. Get a great coach in there, and they will compete with Saban.

Thoughts on Sark?

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

Sark will bring in tons of talent. That won't be the issue. He needs a strong DC to win big. That remains to be seen. Also, he hasn't proven to be the task master/tireless worker that Urban Meyer and Saban are. I think he is a great recruiter and play caller.

Sark's Bama offense in 2019 and 2020 was as strong a two year run as I have ever seen in terms of play calling, both on a general basis and scenario specific basis (3rd down, RZ, etc.). Imo, it was the best two year run of an OC in history.

I agree with the elements of what he has to prove: He is an offensive guy, so the DC hire will be critical. Can he be the tireless worker, will it come at the cost of his personal health? I hate to speculate on these things, but the increased pressure of HC mixed with past substance abuse issues is something he will have to balance with incredible discipline under pressure.

Texas has not been shit for years.....show me!

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. ๐ŸŽฃ

Clearly not as good of an HC or OC as Herman at any of his stops. Just a dumb hire imo, but Herman was turning the ship around so he'll be set up to win

Herman was a beast at Houston until he lost to UCONN, then started looking for a house in Austin as soon as 2015 was over. 2016 came up, beats Okie and Louisville, but loses to three other conference teams.

Herman is a decent coach at best. Beating good teams doesn't make you a good coach. You had to beat every team.

He was also the playcaller for whatever. He can buzz off. Herman a snake.

CompSci

UH BS 20, VT MS 23.

Go Coogs, Go Hokies.

Rumor has it Texas A&M released this news to the press. They're hope is for backlash to ensue by Big 12 supporters so that OU and UT have to stick with the conference. Texas A&M's rationale for doing this leak, originates from their desire to remain as the sole Texas SEC school for recruiting purposes.

Edit:
Source story

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

I know a couple aTm grads and their hatred for UT is as strong as any college rivalry around. Think Bama vs Auburn or tOSU vs UM. I don't know if the rumor has any legs, but there can be no doubt that aTm will work diligently to keep UT out of the $EC.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

What about when it becomes political?

Last time around, the talk was that the TX legislature and/or governor were unwilling to let the sips leave the rest of the TX-based B12 schools in the dust as they sailed off to a new conference. I have no inside knowledge of TX politics, but it's hard to imagine them letting it happen this time, for exactly the same reasons. Seems much more likely that the leak was engineered by aTm to whip up opposition and ensure that any deal being negotiated falls apart.

But I suck at predictions, so who knows. I just wish we'd taken our shot when we had the chance. That was literally a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and our administration condemned us to a permanent spot at the kids' table when they said no.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

Politics will always have a say in the realignment process, especially in a state that is as politically contentious as Texas. That being said, money can make a lot of problems go away, and Texas has more of that resource than most states. Nobody thought that the fierce UT versus aTm rivalry would ever end, yet look what happened. There is likely a lot of desire on the part of some Texas folks to see that rivalry revived, and all the bellyaching by TCU, TT, Baylor and the rest of the Big 12 won't count for a hill of beans since UT and aTm own that state for football. I can't wait to see how this all plays out.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

Texas politics for you:

UT keeps UH out of the B12 because recruiting is messed up.

UT and TAMU try to control the pleasant PUF fund for themselves, not sharing with the other state public schools (TT/UH).

Texas running the table and controlling the B12, getting their own network, getting more market share, etc.

Texas boosters trying to buy coaches and wins. They raised enough money to BUY OUT Herman's contract.

Eyes of Texas. They can fuck off for that one.

UT was in the admissions scandal.

Shady institution overall.

CompSci

UH BS 20, VT MS 23.

Go Coogs, Go Hokies.

I am extremely skeptical that any of this actually happens. These stories have come up a number of times over the years and it is usually Texas trying to angle for something be it more money or something. I bet it has to do with the Fox contract renewal coming up. Texas and Oklahoma are probably threatening "Give us more money or else." I bet the Texas and Oklahoma state legislators get involved because it would cripple too many state schools in athletics. Beside the B12 grant of rights goes through 2025. Nothing can happen before then and 4 year is an eternity for stuff like this. A ton of things can happen in 4 years as we all know.

Agreed. "They're trying to leverage something" was my first thought. What, I don't know.

1. Why would they want to make their path to a championship infinitely harder?
2. Tx A&M aside....Would 'Bama, LSU, Auburn, UGA, UF, etc. even allow this to be a consideration?
I say no way in hell.

"You're proud of your wahoo diploma - 4 years of going to class. If I had a Wahoo diploma, I'd use it to wipe off my ass!'

Supposedly Texas A&M and Missouri are hard no's. Mostly because they know the headache it is to be in the same conference with the primadonna that is Texas. That means they only need two more no's to kill this. It seems to me that that can get two more schools to go with their way of thinking. I could see Arkansas wanting to stick it to an old rival.

Clearly our commentary has aged well ๐Ÿ˜

"You're proud of your wahoo diploma - 4 years of going to class. If I had a Wahoo diploma, I'd use it to wipe off my ass!'

Yep, I was wrong and I am totally dumbfounded by this. I just don't get what Texas and Oklahoma's plan is here. I am assuming they thought the 12 team playoff would happen next year and they could just skip out of the Big12 with no big fuss. Now the lawyers and politicians are involved and it isn't at all clear how expensive this is going to be for them. I guess this is a case of careful of what you wish for.

The part about me sucking at predictions was spot-on, at least. :-)

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

This is the most college football thing ever and I love it. Never change A&M, Never change...

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If Texas and/or Oklahoma leave, at least players in the SEC can upside down hook 'em horns without penalty.

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Go Hokies!

What pisses me off most about this idea is that I actually like it, ughhhh. I know the ACC couldn't possibly expand to land a school like Texas, but shit, I would've loved to hear that we're adding Notre Damn and Navy and doing pods. Or Relegation/promotion. Or something fucking cool for once.

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Please people stop mentioning Navy as an option. That is the most ridiculous thing I've read on this board in the last few days, and THAT is saying something. There's no way that the ACC should ever take Navy. End of story.

HH4455

The main driver behind Navy is that it could entice ND to join full-time. That's the only reason.

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I would argue that Navy has more national appeal then West Virginia. I think Navy probably has more TV appeal than any other non P5 school. If this is about TV/streaming and revenue, Navy is absolutely in the discussion.

Navy is also a service academy. I don't think it's in the cards. Besides, we'd have to put together a Croquet team and I just don't think that's a cultural fit at VT

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

If you think Navy gets ESPN to re-evaluate their tv contract with us, you're fooling yourself.

If we brought in Navy alone, our per school tv revenue would decrease because it would be one more mouth to feed with the same budget. If we brought in ND, it would make a difference, but it would still lag horribly behind that of the SEC and B1G, which is why I think ND is gone to the B1G if they join a conference. (and no, I don't think any contract we have with them is at all binding, not after UMD got out of paying their exit fee when they bolted to the B1G).

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

I don't think anyone including me is arguing that Navy should be in the ACC without ND, nor am I arguing that adding Navy would be a boon to the ACC TV revenue. I'm just saying if ND were to join the ACC, there is a case for Navy becoming a member and having a better case then West Virginia. Remember, this is just about football, no other revenue sports matter.

I myself think if the ACC is adding members, they need to be bold and a bold move would be to add ND and Penn State.

I myself think if the ACC is adding members, they need to be bold and a bold move would be to add ND and Penn State.

Penn St would never leave the payday they have in the B1G for what we have in the ACC, and as I already said, if ND does join a conference, they'll join the B1G where they stand to make a significantly larger amount of money than they would in the ACC.

The fact of the matter is, the ACC fucked up when they re-upped with Raycom for pennies on the dollar about 2 decades ago and its going to end up being the long term death knell of the conference. We're so far behind the ball that we don't even see the leaders anymore. The SEC and B1G are swimming laps around us financially and its a pipe dream to ever think we are going to catch up, and an even bigger pipe dream to think we stand a chance in hell of luring a school away from those conferences to join us.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

ESPN has a control of the ACC and SEC media wise. Why wouldn't they partner with the ACC to pull the best two teams into that conference and at the same time hurt their competitors in Fox and NBC? Penn State makes sense if you have ESPN as a partner.

In 2019 the ACC handed out an average of $32.3 million per school in tv revenue.

In 2019 the Big Ten handed out an average of over $55 million

Penn St isn't taking a $20m per year hit to move from the B1G to the ACC. And adding PSU and ND wouldn't be enough to get us to $55m per school, making the whole thought exercise a waste of time.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

I disagree with you. I think adding those two teams would allow the ACC to substantially increase their TV revenue. Again, if ESPN is a true partner, which they should be since they own the ACC Network, they would be in a position to help make the revenue per school work.

The ACC is at 14 teams, and those 2 alone would push us to 16. In order for us to reach $55m per team, the ACC Network would need to immediately become a $880m per year contract. In 2019, that payout was $492.7m.

ESPN has all the leverage to initiate a re-evaluation of our deal until 2031 at the earliest, and they aren't voluntarily doubling the value of that contract because we add PSU and ND.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

You don't think ESPN would pay additional revenue to gain rights control of two national football name brands and at the same time hurt two of their biggest competitors?

Increase it? Sure

Double it? Fuck no.

And if we aren't doubling it, then someone like PSU stands to lose money on a move, making it a financially poor decision for them, and turning it into a non-starter.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

I guess to me, while doubling the revenue payout looks like a big number, I just don't think it is for Disney, especially if it can be off set by actual subscriber and add revenue on the ACCN.

I just don't think it is for Disney, especially if it can be off set by actual subscriber and add revenue on the ACCN.

that's a whole lot of offsetting

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

ESPN is already charging a lot for the ACCN - image below from this article:

The problem is, not enough people are subscribing to the ACC network. We can't even get comcast to pick up the ACCN. I just don't see how adding PSU and ND is going to DOUBLE the amount of households that watch the ACC Network.

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The B10 is making ~$22.5m more per school than the ACC. That means, in order for the ACC to bring in 2 additional teams, those two teams must increase the value of the conference by $360m/year.

Do you think Penn State and ND could bring the ACC an additional $360m/year? I doubt it.

How much additional revenue do you think would be required for PSU to leave? Let's say you live in a neighborhood you love, and you have the option to sell your house and move nextdoor to a similar house for a little bit of savings. How big would the savings have to be for you to go through the hassle of moving? $100? $1000? $10k? $100k?

The number will be different for everyone, but my guess, is that for PSU, that number is pretty high. For the sake of discussion, let's say PSU makes the move for an additional $5m/year. That means the new ACC has to generate a total of $880m per year (The $440m/year made by the current 14-team ACC + the $360m/year that PSU & ND bring + $5m/year/school required to get PSU to jump).

Basically, you're telling me PSU and ND combine to DOUBLE the value of the ACC, AND that those two schools cannot get that value anywhere else.

I don't believe that.

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What's even sadder is that if adding those two schools were to double revenue what does that say as a whole about the ACC that two teams are the same value as the entire conference?

And the kicker is, if PSU and ND have the value to double the ACC's revenue, then what would the B1G stand to make by adding ND to the deal that already pays each school nearly double what the ACC makes?

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

I think the ACC is pickle-f***ed TBH. I just hope that VT can make the jump to one of the super leagues before the ACC's inevitable collapse

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

The only viable options really are a mass exodus of ACC teams to the SEC or Big Ten, or a merger of some sort between the ACC and SEC as suggested by Jay Bilas. Likely some teams would be left out (Cuse, BC, maybe Pitt come to mind). Other than that, there is no way the ACC can compete as a top conference with the financial hurdles it has against it.

Yours and Alum's math is incomplete. For one, if Penn St leaves BIG that contract value goes down and ACC goes up. Second, in these make believe scenarios, there is also the chance that other BIG teams leave for SEC, making the future if BIG money less certain. This thing is at a very unstable point where a bunch of institutions are on the verge of making panic decisions based on fear of being last one selected. Nothing would surprise me. Smaller companies take over bigger companies in the corporate world. The powerful conferences don't necessarily end up the final winners in this scenario either.

All this to say, there are ways to improve value and product without this super conference approach. Those ways also carry less risk of alienating large numbers of fans. My fear is college football is going to transform from a unique product to a second rate NFL product, ultimately being bad for the sport.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Yours and Alum's math is incomplete. For one, if Penn St leaves BIG that contract value goes down and ACC goes up

we're comparing what the Big Ten makes right now to what the ACC needs to make to pass it. Yes, of course if PSU leaves the B1G, their contract goes down, but Penn St won't give a shit about that. For them, the choice is 'stay in the B1G and make at least $55m per year or move to the ACC and make _____', ,and we are talking about the actual real numbers needed to fill in the blank to make Penn St even consider the move.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

Their choice also has to consider who else in the BIG may jump ship before they do, making their future uncertain.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

All this to say, there are ways to improve value and product without this super conference approach.

There's one way to do this: BE BETTER, and BE BETTER OFTEN. The reality is, a random B10 or SEC game has more national implications than a random ACC game. The conference needs to win the high visibility OOC games, the conference need teams that live between Elite (Clemson) and Mediocre. I will tune it to watch Iowa vs Wisconsin, or Auburn vs A&M. I have no interest in watching GT vs Wake Forest - which is the ACC equivalent in recent seasons.

That is the #1 problem - the SEC and B10 routinely have 'must see games'. The ACC rarely does.

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I'll argue no with the Big 10. Purdue playing Rutgers doesn't even have regional implications. No one cares about anyone outside Michigan, OSU, or PSU (two of which sucked last year).

Their product on the field is not better, they've just done a better job of branding their top schools. And have a few million midwestern sacks of dough who pay to watch them on TV.

For the ACC to catch up we need Clemson FSU VT GT Miami and UNC all to be good (or considered good/interesting by the media). One way to improve this is scheduling and winning big time nonconference games early in the season. The ND contract sometimes hurts rather than helps this. And the conferences should not be doing things like have UNC wasting a nonconference matchup with Wake.

For the ACC to catch up we need Clemson FSU VT GT Miami and UNC all to be good (or considered good/interesting by the media).

This is what Bar is saying too ("Be Better more often") and it would help

And the conferences should not be doing things like have UNC wasting a nonconference matchup with Wake

The ACC has made a lot of questionable decisions - one of which being the ridiculously stupid and boring scheduling structure after expansion. They had an opportunity to do something more radical and creative when they expanded and they completely flubbed. Part of why the ACC is so boring is because the scheduling is so stale. And the reason you have UNC scheduling a noncon game with an in-con opponent is because the scheduling structure (which made sense with 12 teams or fewer) doesn't work for a league with 14 teams. The leadership of the ACC for the last 15 years or so has been atrocious and the conference and it's member institutions are feeling the pains of it now more than ever. And it will get worse before it gets better unless Phillips has some tricks up his sleeves.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Unfortunately, I think we are so far behind the B1G and SEC that the whole 'if we just play better' mindset really no longer applies anymore. The B1G getting a 10+ year head start on the ACC Network while we stuck with Raycom (mind you, so Swofford's son could sign the contract and get the bonus at Raycom) put us so far back that its realistically impossible to catch up anymore.

I mean that's probably the truth. How can we catch up? We can't. That ship sailed. Any gains the ACC Network makes from here on out is most likely going to be outperformed by whatever the Big Ten Network and SEC Networks are able to do. Its like asking how the CW Network can catch up to something like CBS, Netflix, or Amazon Prime. It just ain't in the cards anymore.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

And this is another reason that it might be reasonable for VT to go all-in on basketball and let football fall where it may. If football is good, that is awesome; if its bad, it might not matter so much.

Get Angry, Bud!

Fuck that. I'd rather see the whole athletic department fail trying to play big-boy football than give up to focus on basketball.

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if VT remains in the ACC and the ACC collapses we're not going to be playing big-boy football anyhow. I don't agree with the perspective that we should toss all our eggs into the basketball basket by any means. It's defeatist. But I think the point is that VT football is doomed to mediocrity unless we get into a superleague (by way of jumping ship for the B1G or SEC or by the ACC merging with another big league to create said superleague) This is Phillips' opportunity to put his mark on the ACC. Can he save the conference from decades of Swofford missteps or is he just the poor bastard who will have to go down with the ship because the captain jumped ship and left him in charge?

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

I will admit that I am biased. I definitely enjoy CBB more than CFB, so I might be in the minority here.

Get Angry, Bud!

Yeah, I tend to agree. I don't think simply "being better" will fix much of anything. Would it help? Sure. There's always going to be bandwagon fans. You get a handful of teams that are actually still in the conversation in November and you'll have more fan engagement, more folks interested in trying to watch the games which equates to more subscribers to ACCN and more revenue for the league (marginal as it may be). But the ACC is seriously handcuffed at the moment and there's just not much that can be done at this stage (short of some hail mary expansion deal with another big league). ACC football is going to continue to fall back from the pack and even if the league doesn't collapse outright in the next 5 years the quality of the product on the field is going to continue eroding to a point where it just won't be interesting anymore and we're not going to get a better deal than what we have. The ACCN came about 5-10 years too late and it wasn't lucrative enough. The mismanagement of the ACC is going to bear it's ugly fruit in the next decade or so. The only hope we have is that Phillips, by some incredible stroke of luck, finds a way to salvage the league. I don't have much faith that will happen. If you love VT football and want it to be successful then you should be rooting for VT to jump ship before it's too late. The ACC is the Titanic right now. A lot of chatter about the GoR being "unsinkable" but I just don't buy that. The ACC will either collapse or get left so far back in the dust of the other big leagues that it will become completely irrelevant in football. VT football fans don't want that.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

The ACC is the Titanic right now.

I'd say the Titanic had rich people throwing money at it just to get a seat, so we're probably not quite that well off. :D

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My 2019 Season Challenge: only comment with Star Wars memes. (completed as of Nov. 29)

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

I mean, the ACC isn't in the position of the SEC or Big Ten, but it's not doomed to fail by any means. The Big 12 is the Titanic right now. The ACC is whatever the Titanic's sister ship was. There are clear flaws, but hey, just don't hit any icebergs, and you'll at least survive.

Britanica, or something, I think. I'll concede that the Big 12 is worse off than the ACC. But this is quickly becoming a two horse race and the ACC and PAC-whatever aren't even close

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Britanica also sank. Was sunk actually... not liking this metaphor

Other sister ship was the Olympic. But it actually survived, became outdated/obsolete, and was eventually scrapped after a slow decline. Probably not a great metaphor either.

I'll argue no with the Big 10. Purdue playing Rutgers doesn't even have regional implications. No one cares about anyone outside Michigan, OSU, or PSU (two of which sucked last year).

Wisconsin, Nebraska, Michigan State, and Iowa all have a semi-national following. Much moreso than the second tier of the ACC.

For the ACC to catch up we need Clemson FSU VT GT Miami and UNC all to be good for a 5 year period

FIFY. It won't be enough for all of these teams to have one good season; they need to become good programs.

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I don't get it, why does everyone say Navy needs to join? Why not just let ND get it in the contract to allow them to play Navy and USC annually?

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

The theory is that ND would have more interest in joining if Navy joined.

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which is kind of a crack-pot theory if you ask me. ND cares about ND and ND alone. WTF does Navy have to do with it? The only true incentive to get ND into any league was to require Conference Championship wins in order to make the playoff. Now that ND knows very well that they don't need to be in a conference to make it to the playoff they have absolutely zero reason to ever join any league.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Especially since any conference would make room to add ND. They don't need to panic.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

I think part of the issue is that if ND is in a conference, they start running out of room on the schedule for all of their "must-have annual" games.

If they join the ACC full time, there's 8 games, more than likely 9 by the time they join. Navy, USC, and Stanford would take up the three OOC spots they have.

So either they have to give up on some of the annual games, or they completely shut themselves off from most teams.

I really appreciate everyone humoring me with a hypothetical and bringing a lot of great discussion points. It seems to me that there needs to be an even bolder move for the ACC then just adding teams. What's that move?

I just really can't fathom the ACC breaking apart. I think there is stronger institutional collaboration in the ACC then there ever was in the Big 12.

Honest answer? Merging with the Big Ten to align into an academic and athletic super conference, with intention to absorb Notre Dame as a part of the deal. Allow anyone who doesn't want to be a part of this to explore individual options on going to the SEC (would likely be considered by Clemson, Florida State, Miami).

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

This x100. I think a lot of ACC schools would prefer the B1G to SEC anyways. The B1G is also a very good Basketball conference as well whereas the SEC is not.

Obvious ones:

  • Get better - win big OOC games, hire inventive coaches, recruit good players etc
  • Scrap divisions - The best two teams play in the championship. Give teams 3-4 permanent rivals to preserve those games that matter
  • Scheduling Deals - Do the equivalent of the B10/ACC basketball challenge, put a handful of games on both conference networks
  • Get ND to join full time
  • Figure out how to get on Comcast

Unproven/experimental/wild ideas:

  • Introduce promotion/relegation - if the 'elite' tier of the conference is the top 8-10 teams, then (a) the schedule become much better, and the average top tier match up is pretty entertaining, and (b) there's more games that 'matter' due to the threat of relegation (or promotion)
  • Conference level apparel deals - I don't if this would/could actually work, but if ACC bundled teams together for sponsorships, would that get us more money? If every ACC school was a Nike school, would Nike pay a premium to get a monopoly on the conference? I don't know.
  • Provide over-the-top streaming service - this is very high risk because it basically voids our current deal with ESPN. I don't think we could get more viewers this way, but it would be interesting to see.
  • TV Deals with another conference What if the P12 and ACC shared a TV channel? How many subscribers would that bring? Would it be more than either conference could do alone? I don't know, maybe, maybe not.

Edit: One interesting thing I heard on a podcast is that the ACC has some negotiation leverage around a 12 team playoff. ESPN could give the ACC more money IF the ACC decides to support 12 team playoff. Interesting idea I had not heard before.

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I thought Navy was all about the "option"

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take your leg

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Wouldn't it make more sense to swap A&M and Arkansas? That set up would preserve two rivalry games.

A&M doesn't want to play Texas lol

Twitter me

A&M doesn't want to deal with Texas. The school and culture had already destroyed one conference, and is about to do so to another. They won't be the bully in the SEC.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I personally believe there are about to be two irrelevant UT's in the SEC.

Honestly they should be independent. They're just as big of a brand as ND. Anybody would be excited to play them.

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

If this is about TV and new markets and UNC is a no go, UT and VT make the most sense. VT brings #9 (DC) , #42, (Norfolk) and #56 Richmond while OK beings OKC at #44.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Seems like it's more about catching national attention

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

TV markets are an antiquated way of looking at the college media landscape.

If markets really moved the needle, the ACC would be in a much better position than currently (especially in comparison to the SEC)

With OTT streaming services and cable/satellite packages containing some of the most obscure regional games, local media deals aren't quite the crown jewel as it was 20 years ago.

The previous Texas A&M AD (and also was Missouri's) came out pretty strongly that there is a gentleman's agreement that a school has veto power against any school in their state joining the conference. In the same ESPN article he says that VT was a target of expansion at least at some point (along with UVA, NC St and UNC) due to their lack of recruiting interference.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/31863713/texas-oklahoma...

But meanwhile:

VT '17

I dont understand Texas wanting to go to the SEC. They have the largest budget by a longshot. They have tons of donors, their own network. They are one of the few schools that could go independent. The SEC money is nothing to them. They currently have the 10th rated class, last year was down at 15th but 8th the year before. They are recruiting well enough to win championships and I dont see a recruiting bump going to the SEC. Their brand is huge. What does the SEC give them? Besides a chance to beat up on little brother.

Texas is already playing Arkansas a bunch, get an independent schedule of OU, Arkansas, A&M, Nebraska, a couple G5 Texas schools, BYU, and then rotate another SEC, a PAC12 another big 10 and an ACC school and you have a fantastic schedule. I would love to see way more P5 teams play eachother and this would get Texas playing lots of different teams.

This is just the beginning. The ncaa is essentially toast (with regards to football at least) and there are no real rules for compensation. Teams will start paying players and it'll become a semi-professional league.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of these people that tried to start an NFL lite league, just refocuses and tries to put together a development league that has college teams and private teams (like IMG starting their own team) competing.

It's going to be an interesting decade.

Today has been crazy with the rumors flying around.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

OMG ITS HAPPENING

Let me just say when the rumor first broke on Wednesday I thought it was BS. And even yesterday still was not convinced.

I typed up a message in this thread multiple times basically saying "I'll believe it when I see it, y'all seem to be jumping the gun"... happy I never posted bc there seems to be a whole lot of fire to this fire now lol

So the question is now; how screwed are we as a conference from 0-10? Every dollar, tv dollar, recruit is going to be going SEC more than ever now.

How do we move on from spurtle commercials and hope to even keep up in the rat race?

People say wvu cincy could be poached but how much does that really help the acc brand or dollars? Gotta be pennies in comparison.

Cinci or WVU don't move the needle. ND is our only bet to keep ACC competitive. Phillips has his work cut out for him, thats for sure.

Edit: We will obviously take one of Cinci / WVU with ND, however going for those two without ND would be a terrible idea imo.

I'd rather have WVU, but their grads go to Pittsburgh, DC, and Charlotte. ACC doesn't need viewers in those cities.

Something else has to happen, grabbing ND and other teams isn't going to matter. You have to think bigger than a team. Otside the box even. Big Ten/ACC super conference. They have one cross over game regular season (each team does home and away). Then you have the conference champ game, then you have super conference weekend. Where every team in the ACC matches up with a team from the big ten based on their position in the conference.

ACC/Big ten challenge but for football? Would be interesting but the B10 has a bunch of dud teams so those matchups wouldn't necessarily be interesting.

The biggest thing is the ACC needs is more rabid fanbases and money for a bigger spectacle at games. Clemson FSU VT all have the fanbase (yes we do regardless of recent success); UNC is getting there, but the rest of the conference is borderline pitiful. Wake, Duke, Pitt, BC, Syracuse are a joke, Miami is worse than any of them unless they're ranked, UVA bad. GT and Louisville are decent and have potential but still have fan apathy.

NC State brings fans but there's a softness to the crowd like they really don't know/care very much about football. Lose and they're like "oh gee we lost again, better luck next game".

Compare that to any non Vandy SEC school. All of them care way more. Thats the biggest metric that sets the conferences apart imo.

So say the ACC expands and adds ND and Cinci and goes to 4 pods like being discussed in the SEC. How are the 4 pods made up?

Pod 1:

Miami
FSU
GT
Clemson

Pod 2:

UNC
NCST
WF
Duke

Pod 3:
VT
UVA
Pitt
?

Pod 4
ND
SU
BC
?

Pod 3: WVU (preferred over Cinci personally)
Pod 4: Louisville

Adding WVU in the same division (or "pod") as Pitt and VT just makes too much sense, so I fear it won't happen, haha.

Ha it would be amazing. They don't think too fondly of UVA either after the hoos' band were pretty disparaging. Man that would be fun.

I think they'd stick both WVU and Louisville in Pod 3 and Pitt in the Nor'east Pod. Also, consider that loluva would bitch and moan to get into the UNC/Duke Pod and they'd kick Wake out to slum with us.

Completely unrelated, but if geography wasn't a factor, Ok State would be fun as hell to be in a conference with. My two cents on the dissolution of the Big XII.

Another though, if pac 12 and big 8 combine to make 20, SEC could go for 4 more teams from ACC to make two 20 team leagues. I'm thinking they'd want Miami, UNC, FSU, (Louisville, VT, UVA, GT?) for TV markets/prestige?

I am trying to think if it would be advantageous to separate the NC schools.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Please don't invite the cousins, please don't invite the cousins, please don't......

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

Here me out, what if ACC tries to get Notre Dame and ... Penn State?

Okay...so... There's a lot going on today:

OU/Tx to the $EC is all but done, and just about all the $160/school is lined up to leave after this 21/22 year.

Kansas is talking to the B1G

Ok St and Tx Tech have talked to the PAC12 about a Leftover 8 merger and/or joining them

The American has reached out to the Leftover 8 about joining the AAC.

The ACC had already reached out to Tx/OU, and are possibly talking to others already

I think that sums every thing up as of 6 o clock.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Saw one rumor SEC has also reached out to Clemson and FSU

Nobody in the ACC is going anywhere. Everybody seems to have forgotten that all ACC members agreed to a grant of rights that goes through 2036. There is no way anybody is buying out of 15 years.

There's a lot of potential money tied up in this super SEC concept, and even though there is a contractual arrangement granting the ACC the tv rights, all it takes is to be challenged in court and either invalidated or a significant settlement is negotiated. The GoR isn't insignificant but if the super SEC is going to happen, it won't stop it.

Agreed. When you have OSU and Michigan looking under seat cushions for money it seems, the SEC has plenty to offset these deals.

If that happens I will boycott SEC football for the rest of my life.

Im scared of what this means for VT. We're perfectly positioned to either wind up being left out of a new superconference if this realignment stuff gets crazy (and it will) or, better or worse depending on how you look at it, actually included in one as a bottom-feeding punching bag for the real blue bloods. Either way, we're not gonna be on the shortlist when the non-SEC blue bloods start exploring their options to keep up in the arms race, it's a bad time to be in the middle of a decade-long decline from relevancy.

It would be nice to capitalize on our ability to win a crappy division like the Coastal and sneak into a big time game or two while we can because those days look like they're going to end quickly.

What helps us not get left out is that we can bring in the DC market, and let's face it UMd hasnt really been doing well so our competition is low.

If all of this happens like people are saying it will, would it be in the ACC's best interest to buddy up with the Big10 or to try and make an alliance with the SEC and schedule more out of conference games together?

I'd love to see some sort of ACC Big 10 challenge in football like we see in basketball. Doubt Clemson, Florida St, Ga Tech and Louisville would go for it though unless it results in a very large payday.

A lot of talk about money but there are other factors. SEC is setting itself up to have big boy schedules loaded with primetime games and lots of eyeballs. Eyeballs means better marketing for NIL and better recruiting. It also feels like the beginning of the move toward a power 5 league (or 3 or 4) branching away from NCAA.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

WELP

Prepare to be hurt

My question is how does Vandy and Missouri fit into that conference? They can't just boot them but I doubt thats a football conferenxe that vandy wants to be in.

VT '17

If I were VT, I would gladly take Vandy's spot if they want out. Realistically, this SEC super conference is going to mean the end of college football as we know it. This will be basically the NFL lite, and the rest of FBS will become something similar to FCS football. I would much rather us be in the SEC seat when the music stops than resigned to 2nd tier football. Even if we don't regularly have a shot to win the conference, the money for the program, exposure, and home football schedule would keep fans interested and involved in a major way.

I'll wait for more established sources. The grant of rights for all those schools are going to be a hurdle they won't be able to clear easily.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

How about VT and ND to the Big10, best fits geographically, academically, and sport emphasis. We works have geographical rivals with MD and PSU, and chips still have the rivalry with UVa.

I am not sure what to do with my hands now

If the rumors are true and the SEC somehow poaches FSU and Clemson, I don't see how the ACC survives. We've got to hope to land in the Big with other ACC remnants or the SEC. If the SEC somehow gets OSU and Michigan, the ACC absolutely has to strike and get ND, PSU, and a few other Big Ten schools to stabilize itself. I don't see how the ACC survives unless it makes some moves. If the Big stays intact, it will move and try to snag what is left of the ACC.

The ACC can't be slow on this one and double down on being a basketball league. There's a documentary out there on how this plays out called Requiem for the Big East.

I was thinking Big10 could also go for Syracuse for the TV market and to get the last Great Lake state. As I think about the current Big10 footprint, not much else makes sense. We would also be able to still have an incredible OOC schedule for basketball by keeping the NC schools on the schedule here and there.

I am not sure what to do with my hands now

I think at this point it's less about geographic tv markets and now creating the best possible matchups to command the highest deals possible. With the shift away from cable to streaming subscription services, tv markets are less important. I think the SEC sees this as the opportunity to create an NFL lite and have constant big games with big name programs, also attracting the most possible exposure for athletes as far as NIL goes. If the ACC doesn't act and the Big Ten stays intact, they will take who they want from the ACC. Getting left out of this really worries me. Horrible time to be very down in football.

But the B1G won't be interested in us. They'd take UVA, especially with their championships and academics. UNC and Syracuse would be next on the list.

The ACC has to stay intact for VT sake. We don't have a landing spot. 10 years ago, yes. But not today.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Trying to look on the bright side of a potential worst case scenario here:

If the 12 team playoff still happens (probably with adjustments due to conference realignment), I could easily see a world where VT is one of the best schools left at the altar without a power conference but becomes a CFP mainstay on the "highest ranked non power conference" bid or whatever. Would absolutely be a bad thing for the school strictly in terms of money to be left out in the cold like that but could actually be better for football relevance than being a power conference bottom feeder, but it would mean we'd basically be back to playing a Big East football schedule all year.

Man, I wish Weaver could see this

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

The B1G is not the Big without Mich and OSU, and loses all leverage. The ACC has the upper hand if they act quickly and poach PSU, Rutgers, MD, WVU and add ND, plus Cincy to get to 20... that's a blockbuster TV market league and easily the best hoops league out there. Not to mention a lot of geographic and natural rivalry synergies.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

I agree but Rutgers and Cincy do nothing for us and water down the product imo. Quality over quantity any day, Thats why dropping Wake is a no brainer imo.

Drop Wake, add ND PSU MD is probably the best way to increase quality and stay regional.

Agreed. Add ND PSU. I don't want Cincy, Maryland, or, hell, Louisville for that matter.

If we need to get another I would still prefer Navy.

Then add two nonfootball schools named Villanova and Georgetown

I guess we are going to get a good idea what kind of commissioner the new ACC commish is gonna be quickly. What the ACC has in basketball can't be understated but if Clemson were to leave it would be a big issue, FSU, MIAMI or VT wouldn't be as big of a deal. I don't see anyone coming for us less the big 10 decide to cash in and expand which I wouldn't have an issue with.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I love the comment about how the SEC and Big Ten are the only conferences that aren't ridiculously top heavy.

In the regular season Bama has lost 7 times in the last ten seasons, twice to Ole Miss, Twice to auburn, twice to LSU, and once to A&M. That is an insane almost of top heavy dominaton.

The Big Ten is slightly better, but OSU picked it back up and Dantonio and Bielema are no longer coaching in the conference.

SEC and B1G aren't as ridiculously top-heavy as the other conferences because taking two teams off the top wouldn't effectively cause the whole entire conference to collapse, like we're probably about to see with Big 12.

The 3-6 programs in SEC (LSU, Auburn, UF, aTm in some order after Bama/UGA) and the 3-6 programs in B1G (PSU, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan St in some order after anOSU and Michigan) are way better than the 3-6 programs in the Big 12 -- Ok St, Iowa St, WVU? TCU?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

The 3-6 programs (per your list) in the SEC have won 5 national championships in the last ~16 years The SEC truly isn't as top heavy as other conferences. If Bama ceased to exist they would still have national title contenders every year.

The ACC is the most top heavy conference. It has a bona fide heavyweight in Clemson and the rest are unbelievably average at best to flat out bad.

If there is any potential for VT to move to the SEC, I hope we do and don't look back. The SEC isn't exactly wholesome, but their intentions are clear - they want to dominate the college football landscape, maximize the amount of revenue for their member institutions, and have the vision and ambition to do whatever it takes. The ACC has to be the worst managed league, no vision whatsoever other than basketball (which I frankly think is a bit overrated), and is so biased toward Tobacco Road it isn't funny. Caught a bit of Packer and Durham this morning and the fawning over UNC, NC State, and even Wake as a big surprise team this year is enough to make you puke. This league is just garbage.

Caught a bit of Packer and Durham this morning and the fawning over UNC, NC State, and even Wake as a big surprise team this year is enough to make you puke.

That's why I can't listen to ACC coverage. The level of spin required to talk up a team like Wake or Syracuse is something I simply couldn't do in good faith, even if being paid to do so. Fawning over UNC? That's fine, they are dramatically elevating recruiting which is what you have to do in this sport to elevate your program. I saw a picture of Keeshawn Silver and Jahvaree Ritzie from the Spring game (they will both be true freshmen this year) and those are DL you expect to see at Bama or Georgia (both of whom went after Silver in particular very hard).

UNC's OL dominated us last year - dominated. That game was not nearly as close as the score indicated. If UNC just stuck with the inside counter run, they could have scored 72 points. Dominance. I expect much of the same this season too. Mack will run inside and get the ball out of Howell's hands quickly. I hope we can force a few punts.

Agreed, the sheer energy it takes to pump up bad teams is awful. No doubt UNC is currently on a trajectory to be a very good program. But the ACC has been pumping up UNC for years. What can you expect from a league that fills its office with UNC lackeys, especially an incompetent commissioner for years like Swofford? The blatant nepotism of the low ball Raycom deal and horrific revenue stream from the ACCN deal is flat out malfeasance. ACC leadership has cost its members millions over the years. No vision at all.

This conference has always been one of extreme snobbery and pretentiousness. They didn't even want us and it took the Governor strong-arming UVA to even get us in to begin with. If we have the first opportunity to bolt, I hope we do and leave Tobacco Road to fend off the vultures.

Swofford's biggest win is sort of adding ND to the football conference- on ND's terms of course. But hey, he saved a 3 year spot in the champs sports bowl. The idea that the ACCN deal would have been even worse without ND, I don't buy for one minute. It can't be worse.

Well, we could live in a world without spurdles.

This is absolutely true today. 10 years ago the ACC was more balanced than it is now. I think the ACC is in real peril of completely folding, depending how other dominoes fall. I don't think ND football will ever join a conference (recent playoff expansion essentially cemented their status as an independent) and the ACC's only real shot at long term survival, IMO was adding ND. That ship has sailed. IF Clemson bolts for the SEC or the B1G the ACC will likely collapse. My only hope at this stage is that VT lands in one of the inevitable super conferences.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

David Teel was on Packer and Durham this morning and I think summed up the ACC's problem. The per school tv revenue distribution was $30 some mil last year. You bring in another school, they're going to have to at least bring it that much more in order to just break even with the distribution. Now factor in two to make it an even 16. You're probably looking at over $100-150m in additional value in two new schools in order to make it a winning proposition. First, I don't think that will even be enough to come close to what the SEC and B1G could generate, and second, I don't see two schools with that much value that would make the jump to the ACC. Adding WVU/Cincy/UCF ain't going to make it happen.

I think the conference is honestly doomed if this comes to sheer dollars and cents, GoR be damned. There are too many schools with no real emphasis on football, and adding Pitt, Cuse, and BC was nothing but dead weight. If anything, the ACC would have a better shot at staying afloat if it booted some schools out, which we know won't happen.

Agree- the ACC should boot Cuse and BC. Tell the playoff committee and ESPN that you don't get any Duke/UNC/Louisville hoops games if you try to boot the ACC. It could work

The SEC idea is appealing in a way - I mean arguably the best football conference against historic southern football powers. But it seems like a steep mountain to climb to be among the top teams, rather than being somewhat of a contender in the ACC.

Texas officially tells Big 12 it will not extend grant of rights deal. Looks like they will be leaving in 2025 season. First test of grant of rights comes out in favor of them being binding if conference survives and wants them to.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Two possible things to be optimistic about: If P5 becomes P4 it may force ND to join a conference (something I'd given up on) and given the new leadership of the ACC it's possible the conference won't just lay back and spread their legs for that deal like before. AND... WVU joining could make regional football rivalries real again for VT and Pitt. Another possible development is that we no longer schedule non-P4 games (or at least schedule far fewer).

Read up on Fighting Irish TV. ND has a full blown subscription service. In the not too distant future, we will have to pay for FITV to see ND home games when VT plays them. They are making a killing off of it, b/c they have the cache and nationwide fan base. (plus the backing of the US Catholic church). They can stream classes on there, schoolwide events, the whole 9 yards.

The only other programs that can pull this off are Ohio St and Alabama. That's it.

This is similar to Longhorn Network. But Texas has to give it up to join the SEC. Texas has boatloads of money, too. Yet, they're willing to give this up for the SEC b/c they don't have the nationwide fan base they though they had, that ND does. They even put some G5 Texas schools on the LHN just to get eyeballs.

Had the ACCN been a streaming option, available through the ESPN app, the ACC would have made their money. But....hindsight is 20/20.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

If they can't access the playoff without being in a conference they will most likely join a conference. Whether that's the acc or not remains to be seen but the binary nature of the decision to join or not will not be driven by their media clout.

stolen from reddit

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

This is my favorite meme yet!

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

If the reports about Mich, OSU, Clemson, and FSU are true, this is going to break college sports.

I'm a huge fan of the Hokies and a couple other schools, and I'm a 'pretty big fan' of CFB as an ecosystem generally. If the SEC poaches the top of all of the P5 conferences, it's going to destroy the financials of every other football conference and every other collegiate sport.

My perception is they think they can turn it into NFL AAA and just hoard all of the money. When they kill all of the teams that I'm a huge fan of, my response is not going to be 'pick my favorite sec school to be a fan of, watch, and spend money on' it's going to be 'go fuck yourself, permanent boycott of anything and anyone ever associated with this shitshow'.

It's very much the soccer super league that they tried to start in European football, except instead of ManU fans rioting in protest we have cletus in his 'bammer jersey giving everyone else the finger and chanting "ESS EEE SEE!"

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

Redneck Man united fan would be a hell of a sight

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I for one, welcome our new SEC Overlords

VT '10--My avatar will flip, when things are right at VT again.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

Romanes Eunt Domus

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

More formal scheduling partnerships between conferences is a better scenario than super conferences in my opinion.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

TV Partnerships too - Why can't the ACC and P12 broadcast on the 'Coastal College Sports Channel'? Seems like that would be a must have for a bunch of cable networks, and that would provide a ton of content.

Twitter me

This is great news. The ACC needs the B1G to shut down $EC expansion by throwing cold water on them. Hopefully this will help Klemp$on and Free Shoes University have enough backbone to tell the SEC to go pound sand.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

Not ideal IMHO... losing Mich and OSU kills the B1G and allows ACC to poach PSU, Rutgers, UMd, then add ND to get to 18. Could add WVU and Cincy to get to 20.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

No to Rutgers or Cincy, but yeah the Big 10 is nothing without Ohio State and Michigan. We could take whoever else we wanted

The Big Ten paid $55.6 million to their 12 oldest members in 2020, tops in the country. Why would any school want to leave that cash cow of a conference, especially for the $EC where you have the most challenging route to a conference championship. Better to stay in the more lucrative but less competitive Big Ten and be more likely to earn a bye week in the new 12 team playoff format. Nobody with half a brain would want to leave the Big Ten for any other conference right now. Crap on Maryland all you want for leaving the ACC, but escaping the nepotism and financial malfeasance of the Tobacco Road cronies who run the ACC was the smartest move they could have made long term.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

The only reason is if individual schools believe the foundation of the conference is on sinking sand (I.e, OSU and Michigan seriously leaving)

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Crap on Maryland all you want for leaving the ACC

I crap on Maryland because it's Maryland.

#MakeVTFootballFunAgain

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

A complete merge of the ACC with the Big 10 would surpass anything the SEC has going currently. Big10 + ACC would be the strongest academically, have the best basketball, and the top would compete with the best the SEC has to offer year in and year out.

I'm just here to sling some legs

I know it won't happen, but it'd be hilarious if the SEC said, "nah, we're good".

No, they'll take it and create a new a new division... the new Football SEC Subdivision (FSS) will sit above the FCS and FBS from their massive mountain of cash and laugh hysterically as all players jump in to the transfer portal begging to be allowed in.

This just got fun:

BIG has issued cease and desist letter to ESPN.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Time to get out the popcorn boys this is about to get good.

Edit: ESPN just came out and released a statement saying the big 12s accusations have no merit.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Of course ESPN would release such a statement. But it does make sense. Bowlsby's the kind of guy that you pat on the head and tell to go back in the corner when he's done talking.

as funny as this is I find it hard to believe that ESPN and Mouse were not behind the scenes pulling strings. What i'd like to know is what their plan is after they are done pillaging college football and leave every school in a pile of financial ashes, leaving the $EC as the only thing standing.... Sell it off to the NFL as their new minor league?

You're assuming they have any kind of long-term plan at all. Most companies engage in corporate hot potato hoping to score big wins in the short term and hand off the losses to the next guy.

edit: though Disney has often played the long game so that may not be the case here

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

College football is so stupid. That's why it's my favorite sport. I love it

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

Here's the rumor of which conference it was.

And the AAC has gone as far as to offer no comment when approached by media.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

BIG 12

ESPN

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Lol I totally get the American trying to be a power conferences but no P5 team is going to want to join a league with Tulsa and Tulane

Tulane on the schedule means a weekend in NOLA so disagreed on that... but yeah no one is going to Tulsa.

What, you aren't excited for that Oklahoma State-Tulsa series?

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

People joke about this, but I would actually tune in for this game, and in fact did 2 years ago. Two great offense, and trash defenses, then somehow scored under 40 points combined. This is stupidity that I love about college football. I would 100% rather watch this game than GT vs NC St, or some other middle of the road ACC game.

Twitter me

From Brett McMurphy:
"Big 12's "cease & desist" to ESPN claims network contacted other conferences "encouraging" them to take Big 12 schools so Big 12 dissolves, eliminating grant of rights, sources told @Stadium. If Big 12 implodes, ESPN not responsible for final 4 years of deal, worth $1.06 billion."
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1420510030722486275

I think that last number is the key. Let's say Baylor, TxTech, & TCU decide they can dominate the AAC and have a path to the playoff without having to play TxOU every year on their schedule. That essentially causes the Big 12 to implode. ESPN can use that 1.05 billion to up the AAC payout and funnel the rest toward the new and more robust SEC venture.

"You're proud of your wahoo diploma - 4 years of going to class. If I had a Wahoo diploma, I'd use it to wipe off my ass!'

Apparently the SEC deal is new enough, ESPN would not have to give them more money. However, they would be making their SEC client more valuable and that could help them get more money for advertisement.

things got wild on r/cfb last night with all this coming out

I don't think it will make a bit of difference though, even if it is all true. Everybody will pretend they are sorry as they roll around in their piles of money while the house burns down around them.

How did this guy get this far in life with that signature?

I am not sure what to do with my hands now

"What's your favorite spice, Bob?"

"Nutttttttmeg"

"You're proud of your wahoo diploma - 4 years of going to class. If I had a Wahoo diploma, I'd use it to wipe off my ass!'

Just saw the breaking news that the SEC officially invited them to join and it was a UNANIMOUS vote. They could accept the offer tomorrow.

2 time Longwood grad married to a Hokie.

Pac-12 commish leads voices suggesting College Football Playoff expansion be paused amid SEC additions

ACC can capitolize on this. Ask ESPN to give teams an extra $10M/year in return for support of the playoff. Or threaten to shop it around.

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Time to use Olympic rules for the playoff to limit the SEC. Try and push through only 3 teams from one conference can be in the playoff.

To take it a step further set a minimum of conference games that need played, and that would effectively force Notre Dame to join a conference.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Big believer in 8 man playoff conference limit 2. I could potentially see increasing the conference limit to 3 at 12 teams, but would rather have the 2 limit.

Anyone else besides me look at the SEC super conference and become disinterested in college football? I gave up on the NFL years ago and it's starting to look like I'll give up on college too.

Shoulda gone to the SEC when we had the chance...

#MakeVTFootballFunAgain

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

I will become disinterested when VT becomes completely irrelevant in football. Until then, Go Hokies!

No.

Hopefully it's not too late.

Yes.

I read a comment/article (?) saying this could be ESPN killing the golden goose. West Coast CFB is anemic, and CFB never had much traction in the North East due to the pros, and they are arguably the largest population centers in the country.

If you take out a big chunk of the south west and western mid-west by killing the B12, you'll only have the Midwest and the South East left with large CFB fans. That's still sizable, but if the SEC goes it's own way I imagine that many fans of teams outside of the SEC will lose interest as they will have little interaction with that league, and options to watch NFL teams instead. I know I will, as I only really have a passing interest currently, as I am sick of ESPN's heavy SEC biases for the past 2 decades.

Also this is saying nothing about the future of CFB as I could see the pipeline drying up with parents concerned about the long term impacts of concussions. I'm not saying we abandon football, but hedging our bets on Basketball wouldn't be the worst idea either.

We've already seen what happens when the southern states are the only ones left with an ultra passionate fanbase for a sport.

https://agreatnumberofthings.com/the-decline-of-nascar/

In the early 2000s, NASCAR was soaring. It may be difficult for younger people to imagine it, but the sport was once poised to overtake the NFL in popularity. Yes, that's actually true; read it again if you need to. So what cause the decline of NASCAR to the point where the sport is desperately trying to remain relevant?

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My 2019 Season Challenge: only comment with Star Wars memes. (completed as of Nov. 29)

They hit a key point, Jimmy Johnson finishing 5th every race and winning 5 cups in a row or whatever it was was a big reason. Just like the NBA ratings slipping year after year because its the same teams in the mix - i.e. whoever LeBron James plays for.

I really wish I had more time this year to watch because I was way more interested in Milwaukee-Phoenix than the past probably 10 championship series.

Lol. American History is replete with examples of what happens when the south is left to its own devices and the results are never good...

You can say that again, I tried fried oreos and they are just wrong.

You shut your mouth. I will not accept this slander

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

Add ice cream

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Fried ice cream?

Probably a bit runny that way. On top of course.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Excellent analogy, and to hop on DC's comment, it got boring when it was JJ winning X in a row. The similarities in CFB are adding up. The best is great and all, but people would rather interesting.

Alabama, Clemson, OSU etc are truly bad for the sport. Each team having free reign in largely watered down conferences and a clear shot at the playoff is currently the biggest problem. Either regulate and cap fundraising, scholarships, etc (not going to happen) or put the best of the P5 in a conference and make it harder for Bama, OSU, Clemson etc to win it all.

Another issue affecting the popularity decline of our historic sports empires is the rise of the esports industry. I have five children and all of them have more interest in internet activities for entertainment purposes rather than traditional sports. I enjoy both but my VT fandom comes first. The generational shift away from broadcast television showcasing sporting events towards gaming and esports is huge and growing. Just ask NBC about their Olympic broadcast and you will see the declining popularity of the genre of sports entertainment as we knew it in the world before the internet. I predict that ESPN will increase their coverage of esports leagues as they discover the rising popularity and financial gains to be made from that burgeoning industry.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

There is a definite possibility this could backfire. College football needs leadership to look out for the entire sport. There is no structure to provide that type of leadership so the bully can run the show. Alienating huge chunks of the fans and alumni could be disastrous. On the other hand, if the restructuring could be handled the right way, it could also be a huge uplift for the sport. The absolute worst thing about college football is that there are very few must see matchups in a season. There are good games buried on stations like the ACC network that regionalizes leadership. And, talk radio, sportscenter, etc doesn't pay attention to college football outside of the top few teams and whatever off field headline of the day gets clicks. The best games end at 11 Saturday night and Sunday morning sports shows are dominated by NFL pregame. End rant. College football could be so great if the inmates aren't running the asylum.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

I'm not ready to give up on CFB yet, but I'm also afraid that this could turn out like the NFL.

I think I'll always be a fan of the Hokies, but I'm also a fan of the sport at large. I'm not sure what I'd do if college football stopped being weird. It definitely wouldn't interest me as much. I might watch the same amount of VT games each year, but I'd def watch less other games.

I too stopped watching the NFL. It's super corporate, and it doesn't interest me.

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If the ACC stands pat, VT's recruiting - currently squarely mediocre at best- will suffer even more. The SEC and potentially B1G expanding with better teams only intices more top talent to go to those leagues. WVU made their BCS hay when Miami and VT left the Big East. They haven't been heard from since. VT in a weaker ACC will be in that same boat. Regional also-ran that can't ride a Pat White to the Sugar Bowl as a norm.

Yea, we'll see what happens. If 20ish teams go to a >D1 league, then I assume the other 40ish current-P5 teams will essentially join forces with what is now currently the G5. I'd probably continue to watch this 'Tier 2 league.' Not sure I'd have interest in the Tier 1.

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The acc will not stand on its own with just Clemson as the only relevant team. There must be some competition for the crown. Without it, acc football folds with Clemson hitting the highway to the SEC. Money, cruits and eyeballs watching games will follow the competition

The biggest things holding Clemson in the ACC right now are the grant of rights to the ACC and they are a big dog and have a paved road to the playoffs right now. They would actually have to fight for that spot in the SEC.

And it changes over time. FSU won the league 11 straight years. Miami was arguably the best college program ever in the early 2000's. VT won the league 4 times in 6 years.

Miami was arguably the best college program ever in the early 2000's.

Never won the ACC though.

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I have not seen this here yet, but this is hilarious

Gold, Jerry, Gold!!

I can see that as the T A&M AD was told by his board he was to vote yes...

Unbelievably awesome troll job. Can't wait to see the SEC Shorts take on this announcement.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

Could the Big 12 take their revenge on Texas and Oklahoma by significantly limiting their scholarships as they start to leave? Proud schools moving over to the SEC so they can be doormats for a number of years might be quite a bitter pill to swallow.

Ut Prosim Ad Dei Gloriam

I have no idea if it is possible or legal, just throwing it out there.

Ut Prosim Ad Dei Gloriam

I don't think they can do that, but they should definitely expand while Texas and OU are still in the conference. Add BYU and UCF in '22. Get people used to them as "Power 5" teams. Let Memphis and Cincy dominate the American a couple of years then add them in '24. Texas and OU leave in '25 and you're back to 12 teams.

Add Hawaii as a temporary member and send Texas and OU out there right before big games.

But then they get to schedule a 13th game of the season to help offset the travel costs of going to Hawaii.

I think that's a MWC rule. Big 12 doesn't have to adopt it. I love the idea of petty revenge by the conference. Add a school in American Samoa and one in Germany, then schedule a Saturday-Thursday set for both UT and OU. That would be fun.

Get Angry, Bud!

I dont care about that as much as playing a game that ends around 5 am ET and then getting on a plane the week before you play OSU ... on a thursday.