Euro 2020 Discussion Thread

Anyone watching Euro 2020? A pretty good first set of fixtures I think but no one really jumping out as a favorite for me so far (although France are playing next as of writing so we'll see).

Currently watching Portugal get a narrow win over Hungary with a very flattering scoreline as Hungary did quite well to hang for most of the match.

Discuss below!

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I don't follow soccer so all I have heard about Euro 2020 was that utterly insane case of that Denmark player going into cardiac arrest on the field. I am so glad that has never happened in modern college football. I don't know how it would be handled here.

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Really glad Eriksen looks to be okay, wonder if he will need to have a pacemaker put in before he's cleared to play again. Dutch international Daley Blind had a similar episode due to myocarditis and is able to play for Holland after having one put in.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I was kind of surprised they finished the game after this to be honest. Not sure how I would feel playing on after one of my teammates almost died on the field..

I don't think Italy will allow him to play domestically anymore though. From what I read, they take heart problems extremely seriously and have previously not allowed players for lesser heart problems. The crazy part is that his heart has been tested at least once a year and no one has seen any possible issues or problems.

A week late, but regarding Italy taking it seriously: In 2018 Italian international and then Fiorentina captain Davide Astori passed away in his sleep from cardiac arrest the night before a Serie A game. Not sure if that influenced how they handle things.

Regardless, that one still saddens me, especially as an Italian soccer fan and a fan of one of the clubs that he previously played for. Glad that Eriksen was able to survive his scare.

Looks like it

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

So I've watched as many videos as I can find of the incident and my biggest concern is the same one I have for "trainers" that are "first on scene" of injuries in almost all sports. If he was having a "heart attack" and not breathing nor had a pulse why did none of the first staff to get to him roll him over and start CPR?

This should I hope serve as a reminder of all level of sports from little league to professionals to have things like AED's near sporting events, people trained how to use them, staff who are certified in CPR on hand. The only time I've had to deal with this kind of event at a kids sporting event it was an adult an he wasn't breathing but they had him propped up fanning him and trying to get him to drink water. Please go take a community CPR class in your community .

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

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So I did see a tweet about the incident. Per the tweet, he was awake and breathing when the team/stadium doctor arrived. He then passed out and stopped breathing and that's when they started CPR with an AED.

Also, take one that also provides infant CPR training. It's slightly different. And almost all AEDs now a days will talk you through how to use it. Some can even speak you through CPR.

Shick's goal absolutely bonkers

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Ehhhh yarmolenkos goal takes the cake so far its simply unstoppable. Both are sensational and should be goal of the tourney but I just think yarmolenkos bend it like beckham was pure filth.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Both great goals...I think we'll see a better one in the upcoming matches.

you've got to be kidding!! not only did Shick bend it as much or more, he hit it first touch from 50 yards out while a defender was pressuring

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

plus...gonna be hard to top this high comedy:

I'm not saying it wasn't insane I just think the Ukraine goal was simply my preference due to keeper being in position and not even having a chance is all. I loved the chip and wouldn't argue it being goal of the tourney at all

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

TBH as much as long goals are fun I generally think they're overrated. I don't want to get into a 'best goals of all time' debate but Pavard's goal against Argentina in 2018 is, IMHO, the best strike I've ever seen

Actually I take that first part back I would be delighted to start a greatest goals of all time argument.

Tim Howard from his own box is one of my favorites, mostly because keeper goals are rare. Clearly not intentional, but I love it.

https://youtu.be/UPVZ5YAUry0

What a strike. Guy gave no damns about anything but where the posts were

Yes I've had this debate a few times -- usually on long goals the keeper is partly to blame. But with the way teams press now and ask the keeper to sweep up behind, it's inevitable. Everything has to go right for such a long shot to go in and I don't think too many people how difficult it really is.

Anyhow, I'm a big fan of team goals, so Wilshere v Norwich is a big favorite of mine.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

It's a good one

For my money, the cleverest multi-touch and how-the-hell-did-it-bounce-right goal is Theo Walcott

Bergkamp against Sunderland in the late 90s says hello...amazing skill

Flying dutchman wasnt half bad for me, hearing ian darke scream robin van persie gets me everytime right in the childhood.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

As much as people are talking about it, I don't think it's getting enough credit. People see a halfway line goal and think it's just a long chip, but it's an absolutely perfect ball, top bins, from half field. Nuts

Portugal with a huge 3 points no matter if it was pretty or not in that group 3 points are huge. Germany v france should be entertainment any way it goes.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Probably a deserved result, but a wild finish to the Portugal-Hungary match. Hungary seemed close to sneaking a point out there but conceded 3x from 83' on. The first goal was a very unfortunate series of events for Hungary, deflected cross into deflected shot into their net. They commit a penalty shortly after, then Portugal finally piece together a nice interplay when the match was already decided for the third. Still nice to see one of those come off for them though. Probably the best bit of interplay on a goal in this tournament so far.

Slovaks (the country of my birth) with only their second ever Euro win-we'll probably take a shit the rest of the way (Sweden and Spain next) but to beat our neighbors to the north was pretty sweet.

SLOVENSKOOO!!!

Also: anyone taking Scotland +1000 against England?

Loved the Slovakia win. Duda is the only Koln player on a Euro roster, so I'm rooting for them and hoping he can show out.

I wouldn't be so down on them, I thought they look absolutely fantastic in the first match. Poland looked disinterested, but Slovakia was very good

If Slovakia gets a result against Sweden (very possible), and maybe even a draw against Spain, who have been trying to set world records for being the most toothless ball dominant side in history, it's very possible we see Slovakia in the knockouts. Getting that 3 points is huge with new group stage format.

It's likely...Spain will smash Poland knowing that the Poles have to win otherwise they'll need help-they can't play as defensively as Sweden did. A point against Sweden guarantees Slovakia makes it through if Poland doesn't beat Spain due to the head-to-head tiebreaker. Our reward will probably be France with our luck-got Germany in 2016.

Every goal in Group F is gonna prove to be really important for placement given the quality of that group. Especially if Portugal, France and Germany all beat up on each other.

Every goal in Group F is gonna prove to be really important for placement given the quality of that group. Especially if Portugal, France and Germany all beat up on each other Hungary

fify

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

or...could come down to who scores the fewest own goals

Sorry but that was a bite by rudiger on Pogba what the hell is he still on the pitch for?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Looked more like a playful nibble to me. Sort of kidding - Rudiger is still on my naughty list for the DeBruyne hit.

Hokie fan | W&M grad

I mean I dont see it being accidental and nibble or no nibble its a bite and no way that wasnt intentional. Saw them talking post game and rudiger seemed apologetic but just weird to me that it was ignored so easily where if that was say Suarez or Diego Costa the internet would've melted again.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Yeah he is definitely a master of the "dark arts" recently. That check on De Bruyne immediately made me think of Ramos Salah.

VB born, class of '14

It definitely was shady the hit on De Bruyne was definitely cheap but in the game kind of legal in a way just happens that his hard mask was where it was but now ironically De Bruyne is gonna need a mask now.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Didn't watch Russia-Finland this morning but it didn't look too interesting. Wales with a nice result that should all but put them through to the knockouts. The best 4 3rd place teams advance in addition to top 2 in each group so 4 points will probably be enough.

Thought Wales looked pretty decent, although Turkey somehow looked even worse than they did against Italy.

Bale has become the most confounding player since 17/18.

Phillippe Coutinho and Ousmane Dembele would like a word

The whole skied penalty followed up by another almost benzema like catch the GK napping in the CL final against liverpool was almost too funny.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Just realized Hazard is becoming the new Bale, his banner would read Food, Belguim madrid in that order.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Dream start for Denmark with a goal inside 2 minutes! I wasn't sure if they'd be up for it today, but they look lively so far. Belgium looking...not like the #1 team in the world

Honestly forgot Denayer still played for belguim, their back line is having trouble right now. The midfield from belguim just feels flat

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

That second Belgium goal....class! DeBruyne is just amazing-what a hit

A few good chances for both England and Scotland in the first half, then the game just fizzled. After about 60 no one wanted to get forward. England have made it tough on themselves but hey. What would a major tournament be without a little English fatalism?

It's really pretty amazing how poorly they perform at tournaments (save WC 2018). So much talent, even if they are all probably a bit overrated because the play in England) and they looked so so boring yesterday.

Portugal - Germany is the headliner today, but I'm also interested in seeing if Poland or Spain can bounce back from very poor opening performances. And if Hungary have the stamina to put together a full 90 mins of strong defensive effort (probably not)

The denmark game was so much fun to watch, some screamers and drama by the bundle thats what group stage games are good for when it works out that way. Interesting to see how the games go today with Scotland missing Gilmour and England missing Mount and Chilwell due to Covid. Does Southgate mix it up or go safe again?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Denmark-Russia was the best match of the tournament so far, for me. All the emotion of the Danish squad, the drama of the group table, the home fans were amazing. And some fantastic goals to boot. Really happy that the Danes advanced as they are most certainly one of the 16 best teams in this tournament.

I think Southgate has little choice but to shake things up. Mount is a key player for them and they haven't been creating goals anyway. The Czechs are probably fine to play for a draw since they are top of the group at the moment. I think England are guaranteed to advance, but they need to start scoring soon or I think Southgate may be in trouble.

If I were him, I'd go with James- Stones -Mings-Shaw
Phillips
Bellingham-Henderson
Sancho-Kane I guess but he's been bad-Grealish

So this is a back 4 again - sticking with the Rice-Phillips double pivot. Can't tell if Mount is being replaced by Grealish or Saka. Feels like Southgate is hoping one of those two does some soccer and scores because it doesn't seem like a big tactical change.

Rooting against England is one of my strongest motivators for watching the Euro's. Here's hoping Croatia (or less likely Scotland) can catch them in goal differential after they lose to the Czechs

England beat Croatia so they'd have the tie breaker if they're even on points...FYI

No sir, it's FIFA, everything is done on goal differential which makes it a lot more interesting. Check out how the Danes advanced yesterday. Tied with Finland in points but advanced on a better GD.

Edit: Wow, looks like the Euros are using head to head this year. Not sure how previous Euro's have done it but this is different from most other international tournaments.

The tiebreakers are applied between the teams level on points. So, I believe Denmark only advanced in that tiebreaker because Russia was also involved and so it was a three-way tie. But the first tiebreaker is GD, but it's only the GD in the matches involving the tied teams. Very strange.

In this case, the only teams involved would be England and Croatia so England would advance on GD in matches played between the tied teams, which is the same as head to head when only 2 teams involved.

Edit: The first tiebreaker is actually head-to-head, so that could come into play with 3-way ties

Saka and Grealish did indeed soccer very well

Just here to point out that Grealish always soccers very well and will continue to do so for the mighty Villa despite what the newspapers say about Man City trying to buy him in addition to Harry Kane, Haaland, Pele, Maradona, Messi, Alfredo de Stefano, Mars (the God), a gold plated Rolls Royce, Mars (the planet), and Riquelme this transfer window.

The Sun: City snub Puskas and Gullit!

Think they'd get one of Portugal France or Germany if they win the group...maybe get the draw in a typically cynical English manner and see how the draw plays out for them-don't think Southgate would be that canny, though.

I'm betting on a fairly boring 0-0 or 1-1 draw. Am hoping Saka shines though so everyone will shut up about how he doesn't deserve to be in the squad

GOAL!!!!!

Where's the beef?

Germany down early and facing elimination at home vs Hungary...

Austria got hosed, they counted a goal with almost identical positioning in Spain Poland.

Edit: Saw the replay with the outstretched foot. Interesting how the VAR changes how its called

Some super crazy matches today. Second half of France Switzerland was insane.

Both matches were 3-1 minutes from finishing and then tied. Not sure that has ever happened on the same day.

"I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them. Go Virginia Tech." -Lee

Best day of soccer I've seen, probably ever. Fantastic drama - and I'm a sucker for a penalty shootout. Going to be hard to top that tomorrow, but I'm sure England's dominant 3-shot performance will also be interesting...

I think today will be largely underwhelming compared to yesterday. Maybe we'll get lucky again though!

Germany-England will probably be an ugly slapfight where a 1-0 winner probably comes on a second half set piece. Both have been rather disappointing this tournament compared to the level of talent on each side.

Winner of this match will likely be the favorite to make the final from this side of the bracket, though right now Czechia is probably in the best form.

All signs (erm, history) point to England losing in a penalty shootout

I was happily wrong. Fun end to Sweden Ukraine and the England game was even alright.

Mbappe just set up the path for his redemption arc big time after yesterday. I'm here for it. I was not a fan of how the French veterans didn't go to him and console him after the shootout.

meh. as an England fan I'm fine with France losing

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

That makes sense, but the main point I was making was disappointment in the leadership within the French team. There's no excuse to leave a young player out to dry like that after such a devastating moment. Maybe I've just had a chance to watch some great leaders at the club I follow handle those moments differently, but I think that's some really weak sauce if you consider yourself to be a leader on your team to not console a 22 year old after his lowest moment.

That's fair. I've just seen England's lineup for today. Not excited about it. Playing not to lose, as we all know too well, is playing not to win.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Can I say that I think one of France's issues is its lack of leadership on the pitch? Not one real Roy Keane like guy that is the real drum of the team and to me they looked arrogant and complacent all tournament long. No real surprise nobody went up to console Mbappe after as it isnt their DNA it seems to me. Pogba and Co are happy when winning but as a Man U fan who sees it all the time when things dont go well he gets awfully quiet.

Edit: Did some more reading and looks like theres alot of smoke about lots of arguing and tempers flaring following the game among the players in the locker room. Nothing abnormal to see players upset but the fact it was more of players making accusations tells ya how the chemistry is there.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Yep, there have been reports in the lead up to the tournament about some cliques and dissension among their ranks already. Lots of big personalities and lack of that one true uniting leader. One of the only things that could derail such an insanely talented team.

There is an obvious fix to this. There is one available manager, universally revered by all current players, known for his ability to connect with, lead, and manage big personalities, who specializes in knockout tournament tactics, and also happens to be French...

Arsene Wenger! ๐Ÿคฃ

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Take your leg GGC, sorry ZZ

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

You know that actually wouldnt be a horrible appointment if ZZ wasnt right there.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Nothing surprising to here from the players in the group. Hell the only thing we didnt get out of this tourney from France wouldve been Giroud leading them to glory so we could've gotten to see him and Benzema racing go carts where benzema wrecks giroud intentionally.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

My thoughts on Mbappe as a Red:

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

He'd cost a Mane and a Salah and probably need to make more than both of them combined...addition by subtraction?

I know it's a pipe dream, a boy can dream though can't he?

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

This is why I have hope for seeing Mbappe in Madrid...

Hey you can afford him more than we can...

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

Depends on who you choose to believe about the state of the club's finances.

So maybe Grealish should play more (also Germany is bad)

Yes and Low just stayed beyond his moment. I think the German NT will resume its usual deadly force with Flick in short order.

Probably...gonna miss this, though:

godspeed, sweet prince

Will der Mannschaft be rowing das Boot?

(I first read your comment as Fleck.)

Rooting guide the rest of the way, higher on the list takes precedent:

1. Against England
2. Czech Republic (Denmark if they advance)
3. Switzerland
4. Sweden/Ukraine winner
5. Italy

I don't think you and I agree on much of anything...

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Lets talk politics

/s

Hope England smashes Italy 4-0 in the final...just for you

Man if you're from England I get it. But having to watch their announcers and commentators talk about a pretty much noncompetitive international team with so much arrogance makes them a great team to root against imo.

This^

Belguim Italy winner may very well win it all but man England beating Germany has their media in a frenzy now.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Not beating Germany in a major tournament since 1966 tends to do that

Someone captured it for me perfectly on twitter. How do I root for (some of) the English players but against (the majority of) their fans?

I like Ukraine, I also hate English soccer, so Saturday should be fun.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

You had to know this was coming:

leg to you good sir.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Speaking of Ukraine that slide "tackle"Leg break" from the sweden player was nasty.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

yeah, that was brutal. I felt bad for both players. It didn't seem intentional to me - just a terrible accident. I've been on both ends of similar plays (though, much less severe, thankfully) where a foul happens and it was clearly unintentional

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

That was my biggest issue with the red. It seemed to be more due to the result than the intent. Defender was clearly clearing the ball (successfully) and the Ukraine player ran into his follow through. Absolutely unintentional and unfortunate, but never a red for me.

Ehhhh to me I agree its not intentional but regardless the contact is dangerous and well deserving of the red. I 100% say he had no intent but that doesnt excuse the result of his action.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Immediate Reds should, in my view, be handed out for blatant and intentional egregious fouls. The whole point of the yellow is to warn a player that what they did was dangerous or unsporting and if they do it again they're gone. I understand trying to keep players safe and I'm not up to speed with the current rules. I'm not debating that the call was bad in view of the rules but if I were writing the rules that would be a yellow, not a red. I would have to see clear intent or malice to go straight to red. Accidents happen. The Ukrainian player arrived late. And didn't get the ball. If he hadn't been injured and he had injured the Swede it would have been the other way around. Justifiably so. Not all contact injuries will be results of fouls. It's part of the game.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Happy to see the Danes continue their run.

England totally outclassed Ukraine. That was fun to watch.

Italy-Spain was a better match than I expected. I think Italy getting through on penalties is the best news for whoever wins today. I think Spain is the more dangerous team and the fact it went to extra time is probably also a good thing for today's winner (so long as today's game doesn't go into extra time). As a fan of England I'm rooting for them, obviously, but I would not be upset to see Denmark advance. It would be a pretty good emotional/feel good story for them to win the whole thing. Essentially, whoever wins today is who I want to win the whole thing.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but if England win it would be their first final in a major tournament since 1966

I believe that is correct. England are sort of like the Cubs of International Soccer. It would be great to get that monkey off our back

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

The English are the kings of creating sports and then royally sucking at them in modern times. Let's hope they can win this tournament, it would be sweet release for many years of frustration.

brilliant strike by Damsgaard - good response by England. Both teams are creating opportunities. The second half figures to be quite exciting.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Goal of the tournament for me-a perfect hit

Yeah I just caught the highlight. Really good strike

The Cubs were the "lovable losers" though. Most non-English soccer/football fans, especially in Europe, hate England's national team due to their arrogant and condescending media and fans.

That was a good game! That penalty might have been a bit questionable but England was going to make an opportunity work eventually. Denmark looked gassed and sitting back wasn't going to work for them in the long run. I feel for the Danes though...they played a great game

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

For the first time in my lifetime England are in a major final....GET IN!!!

Ditto! I'm here for it!

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Needed an own goal and a joke of a penalty to get by Denmark. Hell of a run by Denmark they didn't deserve to go out to the British diving team warming up for the Olympics.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

this is a bad take. I'm just going to assume you hate England and are unreasonably biased here.

It was a great game. Both teams played pretty good football. Denmark just ran out of gas in extra time. England played better for the last 40 minutes or so. Own goals happen from time to time. If the defender hadn't knocked it into the goal Sterling would have. It was a great run by Saka and a good ball across the mouth of the goal. You play those balls in because they usually get knocked in the net. That's what happened. Unlucky for Denmark but a good play by England.

The penalty is debatable, sure, but I don't feel bad about it. England was putting a lot of pressure on Denmark by that point and they were creating ample opportunities. It's not like it was England's only venture into the opponents 1/3. They were going to capitalize on an opportunity eventually. If that penalty wasn't called England would likely have scored on a different chance later. Their attack was relentless.

Denmark had a great run and had they won I would have wanted them to win the whole thing. It would have made for a great Disney-quality feel-good story. But given the way both teams played for the last 40 minutes England did indeed deserve that win.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Maybe he's just, idk, not fond of REDCOATS /s

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I didnt say it wasnt a good game sure it was fun but the game was decided by a clear dive. Sterling, in bruno fernandes fashion before contact comes is already diving down anticipating the defender touching him but if you look at the replay there is no contact and sterling falls into the second challenge. Sorry I hate people who cheat to win, with all the ridiculous amount of talent England have they shouldnt need to cheat to win a game against a team in Denmark who are very well drilled defensively but they lack teeth at the other end. Denmark played well but honestly couldnt see them getting 2 goals they looked exhausted but still made a game of it.

Lots of would have, should have statements in a game but we wont know if Denmark could've held on because VAR and the officials gave it to England on a platter and Kane still almost botched it. Italy vs England should be fun with all the whiny actors on display between the italians and english players flopping about. Hopefully that game gets decided by a genuine goal worth of winning a tournament.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

if you look hard enough you'll find that every team "cheats" to get an advantage.

I don't like diving any more than you do. But we have to be honest that it is, frankly, part of the game. Teams in South America are notoriously dramatic divers. Every team has utilized the dive to attempt gaining an advantage (yes, even the US). England is certainly not unique in this regard. And England has lost to teams which have successfully taken advantage of dives to gain advantage over the years. At some point, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em, I guess.

I don't like it but it is what it is. The refs reward dives so the players have been conditioned to keep doing it. Don't hate the players (or teams), hate the refs.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

If pickford didnt have a brain fart it wouldnt have gone in the net either, also there was another ball on the pitch for the penatly call so not sure how much you want to look into all that. Nit picking like that is not what I'm arguing about the penalty call was insanely soft and should have had the ref review the call on the VAR screen. Like in basketball tight calls late in the game should be more encouraged to use the VAR monitor.

Just because everyone else does it doesnt mean its something you should do. I'm a die hard man u fan and I love Bruno but lose my shit everytime he flops to earth to try and trick an official. VAR needs to be used to better deter it and more yellow cards to players like Kane and Bruno who try and decieve refs all the time. More cards and retrospective cards would help to deter players.

I know players are diving but thats what VAR and dozens of camera angles need to be used to deter. You have free access to these views and the refs shouldnt be discouraged when making a big tight call at the end of a game. How Wenger summed it up on the Bien sports post game show sums it up to me.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

VAR needs to be used to better deter it and more yellow cards to players like Kane and Bruno who try and decieve refs all the time. More cards and retrospective cards would help to deter players.

I know players are diving but thats what VAR and dozens of camera angles need to be used to deter. You have free access to these views and the refs shouldnt be discouraged when making a big tight call at the end of a game.

I generally agree with this. I would love for diving to be retro-actively penalized to try and drive it out of the game.

Just because everyone else does it doesnt mean its something you should do

Until diving is punished it will continue. This is a nice ideology but it just isn't realistic. As long as diving is rewarded rather than punished players are going to continue doing it. And I don't fault them for it. Its part of the game. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

I'm arguing about the penalty call was insanely soft and should have had the ref review the call on the VAR screen.

I'm not arguing that the penalty wasn't soft or that it shouldn't have been reviewed further. But to say that England didn't deserve to win because of a soft penalty is clearly biased. England outplayed Denmark for the entirety of Extra Time. England was the better team for the last 40ish minutes. They did create a lot more opportunities than Denmark (and could have created more even after that second goal but opted for possession rather than attacking). I've seen countless teams get awarded timely, often soft, penalties which they convert to win big games. Usually, that team is the team that played better generally but sometimes that team was outplayed for most of the game and then got lucky. The US has won a few games this way, in fact. Being outplayed for 89 minutes and then getting a cheap penalty late in the game to win against a better team. It happens.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Yeah, so avid Welsh supporter here, which should tell you all you need to know about how I feel about pulling for England. Having said that, this is a super bitter take. the own goal basically taking a tap in away from Sterling has already been discussed. The ref had a clear view of the pen, and the VAR review is only supposed to overturn if it was a clear and obvious error. Watching in slow mo gives us a different perspective than the ref, and even saying that, there wasn't enough for me to clearly determine how much contact there was, so no way to overturn it.

I will, however, give you kudos on finding any reason to even tangentially slander Bruno Fernandes, a man who deserves ALL of the slander.

I agree on the slow mo I dont like using it but in a handball or looking for obvious contact it should be allowed to be used other than that they should only be using VAR at full speed. I guess my crutch is the ref should've have been encouraged to look at the monitor to take a better look at it.

I love bruno for his filthy stuff but hes like ashley young in his incessant diving makes me want to destroy a TV every time he flops.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

If Wales and the United States are playing who do you cheer for?

In a friendly? For everyone to have a good time and no injuries. If Wales somehow made the World Cup and they ended up in the same group, I honestly have no idea. For the other games to have already determined that Wales AND the US go through to the knockout round and it's a rubber match, I think. Am I doing a good job of avoiding the question?

LOL

I'd've said Wales tbh

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

This is an interesting question. In the 2010 World Cup, England and the USA were in the same group, I'm a US citizen but before that I grew up in England (after we emigrated from Czechoslovakia) so even I didn't know who I'd root for when they played each other before the game began. Once Steven Gerrard scored I knew it was England...not sorry. I grew up watching and attending English football so it's hard to get it out of my system. I root for the USA but not when they play England, though it feels weird not to support my country that I love dearly. Downvote away.

This is a totally different situation.

The I studied abroad in London for 6 weeks I can't get on board with.

Are you English or welsh? Cause I am the biggest cheer for the home town person on earth and not cheering for your country is causing a serious mental pretzel for me. May short circuit.

Well I sort of assumed 5thfuller was Welsh. If I were him I'd have said Wales. I guess I didn't make that clear. I'm Scotch-English. My ancestry can be traced back to Hume but my family was (and still is) in England for generations so my sports rooting allegiance is to England. If I, personally, were trying to pick who I'd root for between the US and Wales I'd root for the US. I assumed that 5thfuller would root for Wales because If I were to pick between England and the US I'd root for England. Sorry, not sorry.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Lol to each their own my friend. Cheers!

Take the names off the jerseys and that's a penalty 9 times out of 10. The offensive guy controlled the ball, in the box, just about inside the 6, and while the ball was more than 5' off his foot, the defender stuck his leg in WAY after the ball was gone. There was ZERO challenge on the ball or for the ball. If that happens at midfield, its a yellow card. It was a clumsy challenge that simply had 100% contact with the player and that is a penalty all day long.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Sure the defender puts his leg out but before Sterling gets to his leg he is already falling down. If he went down due to the defenders outstretched leg I'm fine with the pen but Sterling is not trying to play the ball once he dives. Mahlen(dunno if thats the right spelling) didnt touch him in the replays if thats who your referring to touching sterling.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I'm not sure he was falling as so much as taking the next step. He was expecting contact given the last few trips he took in the box. And the defender definitely bumps his lower leg to put him off balance.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

"needed an own goal" as if it wasn't a tap in if the defender wasn't there. it was going in off of someone, just happened to be the defender.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

My take is based off my view on the fact that outside of that and the few minutes before the own goal miss from sterling they didnt create alot of big chances they had lots of good pressure but not enough clear cut chances. Which I'd credit Denmark for some big time defending. All said I simply expected better from the talent England have whether thats fair or not I'll concede that but to me they should be a bit better.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

England dominated Denmark in terms of xG. This doesn't necessarily mean that they deserved to win, but it does generally mean they created a lot of chances. If you take out the penalty xG (which I believe is 0.7-0.8), they still would be at about 2.5. Compared to Denmark's 0.27, this is a good indication that England controlled the game and had many decent opportunities to score (which they have not always done in this tournament!).

As much as I dislike England (generally the media and fans moreso than the actual team), they have been very good in this tournament and deserve to be in the final.

Yes England are "better" but the fact is that both teams managed to score 1 goal before that controversial penalty and it should have gone to penalties. xG measures the who creates the best shooting opportunities, but having more xG than goals also indicates a team that is wasteful in front of goal.

Same for Spain. They dominated in terms of xG, but guess what? They are terrible finishers and couldn't convert to punish Italy (and other teams that they played earlier). So they didn't "deserve" to go through. But if Spain got a BS penalty to win, I'm sure people would use the same fallacious argument that they "deserved" to win.

I wasn't saying they were necessarily better, just refuting the claim in the comment I replied to that England did not create chances. The xG is generally a fairly good indication that they did. Perhaps they were wasteful with the chances and Schmeichel had a fantastic game. But they did create chances. That's all I'm saying. xG is not the best metric to use in a single game to show who "should've won" but it is a good indicator of quantity/quality of chances created.

That's fair, although the penalty has xG of maybe 0.8. The subsequent follow-up also probably at least 0.8 (just guessing). So that one sequence itself probably greatly inflated that statistic

That's true, and tbh I forgot the penalty wasn't scored directly. While the follow up is probably not as high as the penalty itself, I imagine it would come down to around 2. As I said in the original comment, I think that still illustrates a high quality game in terms of chance creation.

England probably "deserved" to go through anyway having been the stronger side for the majority of the match, but that is never a pen. I had no rooting stake in the match, but feel the Danish certainly have a right to feel hard done. It was a disappointing end to one of the best keeper performances I've ever seen in a major tournament from Schmeichel.

Italy England is a better final for a lot of reasons, so I'm excited for that, but not the way you want a finalist to be decided.

Italy have looked like the better side for the last 60 minutes. I'm still holding out hope for England but I can't be upset if Italy wins. They've recovered from the early setback and have looked more confident.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

England needs to attack. They sat back and allowed Italy to have the ball during the second half so it was only a matter of time before Italy equalized. Hoping for a more open game in extra time.

England made the same mistake Denmark made earlier this week

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Pickford did all he could do. Good job by Italy. Well deserved win. This will hurt for a long time

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Yep...deserved win for Italy...not gonna lie...cried today.

It's not coming home and man I'm gonna love watching BBC and sky sports for this.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Tasteless

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Naw, English tears sort of taste salty

I mean would you care if he said something like that about Duke basketball or the Cowboys or something?

Honestly, no, probably not. But I'm not a fan of those teams

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

No...duke wins, England doesn't...there's a difference. Bad news for the haters: England has a young team they aren't going anywhere

Bad news for England supporters: They aren't going anywhere

Fair point: let's revisit this in 5 years

Okay, so again the Cowboys. Or uva football, whoever. I'm just replying to the "tasteless" comment. Idk if it's "tasteless" to enjoy seeing your least favorite team lose. That's just sports.

As far as England not going anywhere, I'm just glad Italy reminded everyone who they should be talking about. Literally on the verge of breaking the all time record for most games in a row without losing and it's all "England England England"

It's a joke bud after hearing for a freaking month every time I watched the EUROS to have iTs CoMiNg HoMe jammed in my face by every outlet I think I'm safe to poke a little fun at the fact that it didn't come home.
Fun game but I don't think anyone can complain about the result Italy deserved it and we're a good bit better on the day.

Fancy being Phil foden with the haircut or some of the fans with the England euro 2020 champions tattoos

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

...and scum players cost England...can't make it up

Shaw scored the opening goal and was fucking lights out all game. Maguire was near perfect. Fuck outta here with your scouser bullshit

Yea Shaw was boss but feel Declan Rice was MOTM for me...not on the players south gate bottled it today

I dont think southgate bottled it at all. Could he have made subs earlier? Maybe but they didnt exactly light the world up when they came on, Italy are a very very well drilled team and do what they do really really well and sometimes you meet your match. Southgate 100% is the best thing to happen to England in a long time sometimes you learn your lessons and go from there. England is stupid young and talented and they have the right manager for once, get him to work with say Graham Potter on attacking patterns etc in the lead up for the world cup and theyll be fine. If anything I thought mount and sterling both had quiet nights but still they did some good stuff.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Forza Azzurri! What a tournament for Italy!

Side note: hopefully this brings some respect back to Italy / Serie A

England fans deserve every bit of this loss.

Meanwhile, hats off to all the Italian fans that dressed up like Mario and Luigi, the pope, pizza, pasta, and the stunning models the cameras kept picking up in their azzuri gear. Y'all the real MVPs.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

England fans deserve every bit of this loss.

England fan here. I'm going to push back here a bit. England are the most scrutinized team in the sport. And it's not even close. I completely understand the contempt for the media but to drag all the fans because you're sick of how the media covers England just isn't fair to the fans. Every fanbase in the world is going to have shi* fans. England also has quite a lot of perfectly normal fans who have supported the team for decades despite them not winning anything. Hate on the media all you want. I don't care. But leave the players and fans out of your misguided disgust for all things England. Just imagine VT getting into the playoffs and then losing to Ohio State in the championship and having the entirety of college football dragging all of us Hokies fans because a few shitty fans made it on camera with obscene gestures or something during the playoff run or said racist shit about a player who made a mistake during the game. Yeah, okay, VT has some shitty fans but you wouldn't feel very good being blanketly characterized as such just for being a Hokies fan, would you?

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

There's shitty fans, there's assholes that should be kicked out of games, and then there's the England fan the used a laser pointer during a PK to distract the opponent's goalie. Karmic justice to lose on PKs.

How many England fans have you ever actually interacted with though? Do you think all, or even most, of England fans are the types of assholes to shine a laser pointer into the opponent keeper's eyes?

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

First part, I've interacted we countless fans, specially at large viewing events typically during World Cup years. Most specifically and prominently, I was in Seoul for the World Cup when England and the US played to a draw in South Africa. As an American fan wearing my jersey to a bar for the game, my friends and I received constant harassment from the English fans that turned increasingly racist as the game progressed.

Do I think all English fans would shine a laser pointer? Of course not, but one did and that's far too many. I've also seen Saka, Rashford, and Sancho's social media since yesterday. Do I think all English fans are horribly racist? No. Do I think enough are passively racist to allow that to continue? Absolutely.

English football are not lovable losers and I take complete joy in misery.

Personally, I feel bad for some of the England players, but not for the fans and media for the reasons pointed out by hokie4life above.

Also, let's not forget that England were the betting favorites entering the tournament. Italy were completely disrespected as I think the 7th favored team (I got them at +1200 in May - clutch). The media just talked on and on about England and we saw the perceived underdog that hadn't been getting enough respect beat them.

I cheer for Italy so I am biased, but it's a bit poetic

I hesitate to continue down the road of "Not All England fans", but I'd suggest you find the footage of the England fans who broke into Wembley before/during the match and the ensuing brawls that happened between the England fans WITH tickets and the ones WITHOUT, which cast neither group in a good light. The ticketless ones overrunning the stewards and security, as well as the ticketed ones taking justice into their own hands by cold cocking ticketless fans, knocking others down and then proceeding to kick them in the head while they were on the ground. Not a good look from anyone.

I will grant you that none of those fans without tickets should have been anywhere NEAR Wembley, but that, to me, is on the FA, who have done little to nothing to discourage that kind of behavior from their "most loyal fans". I'm not suggesting banning England from European competition again (which would never happen with the amount of money involved at this point) but they need to stop empty gestures and platitudes and put in the work to identify the culprits and ban them from England matches AND from club matches for life.

Unfortunately, these are escalations that you can find at sporting events in any country these days. Perhaps not to the degree of what happened yesterday but they are all too common. Ask Mario Balotelli about his Serie A experiences. The premier league and the other big European leagues are tainted by the classes actions of individuals. This goes for college and and pro sports in the USA as well. How many times do we see where players are attacked via social media when they don't win? Fans being removed and banned from attending NBA games because they throw something at players? It seems to me like the experience of attending games becomes a little less enjoyable evey year.

This is something that to me as someone who's never been there or around the English fans seems scary as hell. That said I work with a whole bunch of Irish and dutch guys who are all die hard football fans and their hatred for the English fans far outweighs their disdain for the players. Hell they all love some of the players but their experience growing up overseas in the 70s on attending games they all have horror stories dealing with English fans that to me being told about them makes me wanna say what the fuck is wrong with people. It's not first hand but their stories are enough to make me understand why their is a large base of people who are pulling against England not due to the players but due to the fans that ruin the experience of a GameDay and can't behave like an actual human.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

There are a lot of different strategies to set up and order your penalty takers, but in general you either put your BEST taker 1st or 5th. Sometimes you just go best to worst and hope it's good enough, etc.

I cannot fathom why Southgate would put a 19 year old Saka as the 5th taker. For comparison, in the 2016 CL final take a guess who was Madrid's 5th penalty taker... I'm sure Saka earned his spot in the pen shootout in training, but putting him 5th makes no sense to me.

I didn't really care for the overall strategy. I think England are at their best when they are attacking. Sitting back and trying to defend against a team as technically sound as Italy wasn't a great idea. It's a bit of a miracle England even made it to PKs anyway. It was frustrating to me that Southgate subbed in two players specifically for PKs and both players missed (one of them pretty badly). I also don't think it was fair to Saka to have him taking such a critical penalty in that spot. That is an immense amount of pressure for any international footballer. And it's doubled just by virtue of being England (thanks media).

The one positive I can take away from how that ended was that his teammates were quick to console him (unlike how France treated Mbappe).

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

I think England are at their best when they are attacking. Sitting back and trying to defend against a team as technically sound as Italy wasn't a great idea.

Frankly, I think scoring so early functioned as a negative on England's overall performance. They kept the juice up for most of the first half, but they clearly settled into "see this 1-0 out" mode in the 2nd and it obviously cost them in the end.

Overall, I go back and forth because I believe Southgate got the results the last two tournaments, which is ultimately what matters the most, but there is just far too much attacking talent in England's squad to be the team who wants to win every match 1-0 and play like they do tactically. Portugal has had a similar problem under Santos, but it obviously worked out with them in 2016, just as it easily could've worked out for England if a couple pens go differently.

I didn't really care who won outside of vaguely wanting my early pick of Italy to win the tournament come true, but Sancho, Rashford, and Saka being the three to miss pens was absolutely the worst case scenario. I felt crushed for each of them, and was instantly bracing for the abuse each of them was sure to receive in the aftermath (and we've now seen it realized).

I agree I liked how the veterans consoled the young guys who missed and immediately had their back. Good show from the England NT all around in terms of sportsmanship and class.

I still am just dumbfounded that he would put Saka in that position as the 5th taker. You've gotta go with someone who has been in this kind of pressure situation before. Saka surely *wanted* the opportunity to take the 5th, but I think it's unfair to put that responsibility on him.

The only reason I can think why Kane wasn't 5th is that there a risk that 5 th won't get to go, especially if you're kicking 2nd. Still absolutely no reason to have Saka 5th. I'm an Arsenal fan so I love him, and I think he'll bounce back. But this could legitimately mess with his career. The media is still talking about Southgate's missed penalty 25 years ago! He should know better than anyone. I know Saka earned it in training, but he's never taken a penalty for Arsenal, let alone England. He should have been 2 or 3. Glad to see the players back him though, especially since it's not like he was the only one who missed.

I'm fine with putting Kane 1st. It's definitely a risk to put your best guy 5th. In the 2016 CL final for Madrid it paid off to put Ronaldo there, the very next year he didn't even get to shoot in the Confed Cup against Chile. So I understand putting your best guy first just to be certain. However, he still could have put someone else 5th, even if it wasn't Kane.

Maybe Maguire? Start with a Harry and end with a Harry?

Kane - Rashford - Saka - Sancho - Maguire

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

My preferred strategy is definitely something closer to this.

I want my best two taking 1st and 5th (doesn't matter which one does which imo), then 2-3-4 are just the next 3 best takers.

Saw grealish tweet out about how he wanted to take one after the game and gotta say I'm not a fan of him coming out like that undermining the manager but then again I get defending why hyou didnt when there are alot of folks being critical of the senior guys. I feel gutted for rashford, sancho, and saka being put in that position, rashford and sancho not getting a kick before pens and saka being 5th was rough. Taking pens in practice vs 3rd, 4th, and 5th in a euros final at home is rough when youre either cold or simply too immature for the occasion which isnt an insult for a 19 year old.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

He maybe shouldn't have responded, but I think it's fair to consider he was quote tweeting and responding to a Sky Sports tweet stating that him and Sterling shouldn't have LET Saka take the pen, as if he had a choice. But he doesn't take penalties for Villa! Most of the England squad don't actually take that many penalties! At that point, you just go with who does it well in training and who is confident on the day. Nightmare scenario all around.

We finally found the real identity of Grealishs' number one fan TheFifthFuller

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Like I would have a ManU shirt. My Mr Grealish shirt is claret and blue.

That's exactly what you would say as an "excuse" we all know the truth now your a closet man united fan that buys all their third kits and worships Bruno Fernandes secretly

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Ok, I know this was in jest, but I want to point out that a) TO BE CLEAR, I truly despise Bruno Fernandes and b) even tho ManU kits are normally very clean and nice, that zubaz abomination white with rando black lines is hideous, it's even worse than the tea towel kit they had a few years ago. I can't believe that shirt got greenlit. And I guarantee that lady bought it only because it was on super-clearance discount because no one would buy that travesty of a shirt.

Upvote for Bruno Fernandes- Pen slander

classy from rashford

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I'm glad he's getting a lot of love from fans too. That helps pick my spirits up

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

People that attack players the way they've been targeted since the game are sickening. Glad people are stepping up and sending these guys some support, the last thing they need is more abuse when something that bad happens to them.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

And right under that tweet he shared some letters he received from the kids that look up to him...

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop