Tech LB Isi Etute charged with Blacksburg murder.

https://www.wsls.com/news/local/2021/06/02/blacksburg-welfare-check-resu...

On Tuesday at 10:30 p.m., while officers were performing a welfare check in downtown Blacksburg at 119 N. Main Street they found a man who had died, according to the Blacksburg Police Department.
Investigators ruled the manner of death a homicide, identified 18-year-old Isimemen Etute as a person of interest and later charged him with second-degree murder

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Comments

every off season is f***ed up by something....why can't we just have nice things? I just want to make it through an off season without hearing terrible news out of Blacksburg...is that too much to ask?

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Yikes...this isn't gonna make our standing in the Fulmer Cup look good at all. Condolences to the victim's family.

WTF...murder? That's a first for just about any college program. Greeeaaattttt.....

20 points by one player is something I only want to see on the basketball court

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Huh?

Ah, thanks!

Something tells me he's not getting re-instated.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

A life lost, a life thrown away. Geez. What a nightmare.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

And there is that other shoe. Hopefully this is all a big misunderstanding and no foul play was actually involved.

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

Would love to be wrong, but I think for him to be charged the day after probably means that this is pretty cut and dry.

Someone is dead... foul play is involved- by definition, unless the coroner ruled otherwise

Why can't we have a normal offseason???

My 2020 Season/Covid19 Challenge: only comment with Marvel memes.

My 2019 Season Challenge: only comment with Star Wars memes. (completed as of Nov. 29)

My condolences to the victim's family. No one should have to lose a loved on due to murder.

Pretty ironic that we just got a verbal from a guy named Law on the same day

Really hoping the next news story drop isn't about one of his fellow football players being the victim. Any victim of violence is a tragedy but something like that within the "family" of the team would be heartbreaking.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

WSLS has reported the victim is Jerry Smith, 40, of Blacksburg.

Wow thats crazy

Tears in my eyes
Chasing Ponce de Leon's phantoms
So filled with hope
I can taste mythical fountains
False hope, perhaps
But the truth never got in my way
Before now, feel the sting
Feeling time bearing down

Oh my God. You have got to be kidding me?

No, you are not kidding me. Sucks on so many levels.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

Wth...no matter what the story is, this is just sad as hell.

This is AWFUL. What in the hell happened to push a young man to this?

Have any additional details been released? This is going to be a messy situation.

Not many new details but WSLS does have the name of the victim now, Jerry Smith, 40 of Blacksburg.

119 N Main Street? The article sells apartment but I am almost certain there isn't an apartment there is there?

EDIT: I was mistaken, a quick google search and I can see there are some available there.

I have no idea. I thought that was weird too but it also made me wonder if there are some loft apartments above the bars and stuff. I know some places have that. Mixed use zoning and such but I don't know if Blacksburg has that.

Looking at google maps street-view, looks like there might be some upper level apartments

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Isn't he a freshman? Why is he living in an apartment?

We put the K in Kwality

This is where all the details will come out. There are a lot of question marks here.

The victim was found at that address. Does not mean Etute was living there.

Yeah I'd imagine the 40 year old victim who lived there was not roommates with an 18 year old freshman.

It will be interesting to see what's the connection to Etute and why they arrested him so quickly

Cops did a wellness check to that address and found the victim there, no mention of where Etute lives

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Awful situation for sure.

I wonder how this will be addressed by the staff with the in person recruiting and camps happening again. A second degree murder charge is a mighty big elephant in the room.

Ahhh yea that's more like it for an offseason, knew we couldn't have nice things for too long

VT '17

WSLS story was just updated, so for those who read earlier and haven't seen this, the victim's name has been released.

Police have identified the victim as 40-year-old Jerry Smith, of Blacksburg. Authorities report that he and Etute were acquaintances.

From the Roanoke Times:

Police identified the victim as Jerry Smith, 40, of Blacksburg. He and Etute knew each other, police said.

Jerry Smith was the Restaurant Group Director for DP Dough & the new spot at Big Al's (Centro Street Taco).

This just got sadder, bet we're not going to like (erm, that's an understatement) the details of this situation. Turrible.

I hope it isn't. I graduated HS with this Jerry Smith. The age immediately made me wonder because it would be spot on if it was.

Edit: Confirmed it was him. This is terrible.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Is he kin to Marty?

Couldn't tell you. Ton of Smiths in Giles. Some kin, some not. But I honestly don't know. And even if I did, I wouldn't say in an open forum and drag Marty's name into this mess.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

I understand. I wasnt faulting in any way. He had nothing to do with any of it. I know he loves vt football like us and made me curious. I apologize.

No need to apologize. I didn't take any offense. Even though he obviously had nothing to do with it, I wanted to make clear that I wasn't bringing his name into this dumpster fire of a shitshow regardless of my knowledge or lack thereof of Giles Smiths' family trees. My response was more disclaimer than retort.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

I keep hearing stories that he used to have a old cop car and pulled people over all the time while in Giles. If it's the same guy. Multiple Giles residents have shared very similar stories.

Much like my other disclaimer, I will not comment on any rumors in a public forum.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Deleted per mod request.

College freshman and 40-year old man as acquaintances...and a bar fight. This is weird.

We put the K in Kwality

Testosterone and alcohol. Name a worse combination...

alcohol, testosterone and meth

That address is fairly close to Champs, obviously pure speculation

VT '17

There is a lot of speculation going on across many forums. The truth will come out in due time, and I would prefer if unsubstantiated stuff stayed off the forum, as a lot of people across different places are claiming to know things. A man has died. I personally think it's a little disrespectful and voyeuristic for everyone to immediately try to throw out information that generates even more rumors.

Well he is only 18 years old, although of course fake IDs and such exist

Happy bday to McLovin

Just a friendly reminder that we fans are not the victims in this story. Not trying to be holier than thou (I'm not) or call anyone out (I didn't even read all the comments above), and it sucks, but not being able to build depth at the LB spot is pretty low on the unintended consequences of this.

I cried a bit, not gonna lie, what an awful story.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I'm sure we can get some sympathy from Ralph Northam. Get the trial over quick, someone write him a letter. Get a pardon, be back on the practice field in August. We might need his help to win 4 games this year.

Gobble Till You Wobble

Best GIF usage of the offseason nomination.

JFC a person died. The fuck are you talking about?

I really hope this is just a shit troll.

โ€œAlso, a microwave has never danced it's ass off to Jackie Wilson.โ€ - AssPocketFullOWhiskey

This may be the worst take I've ever seen on this site

Ok, he either got banned or he deleted his account within 40 minutes of posting this. Is there any way we can just erase this post?

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I'm not quite sure what point they are even trying to make, genuinely confused by this admittedly absurdly stupid comment

VT '17

man this is just awful. condolences to the victim's family and I hope justice is served

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

*Speculation/rumor removed*

Nothing good can come from this. You should probably get rid of this speculation for now.

Well we made Yahoo sports and they have the same info we have.

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. ๐ŸŽฃ

Holy smokes, this is insane. Program-defining days ahead

Eh, probably not program defining. The football team has been through losing major players before. But if any of the rumors are true it's a huge impact to the town and community of Blacksburg. The football team should be the least of any one worries.

Ratcliffe is an out-and-out UVa homer (runs a UVa-centric sports blog after being fired from his previous job).

Hopefully, this isn't confirmed by a more reputable source.

One of the posts on reddit suggests 2 teammates drove him

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

So far rumors make it seem like they were dropping him off with no knowledge of what was going to happen but who knows with this rollercoaster of events.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Lol, after he got his page clicks, he walks back his statement:

This guy is a clown.

What clicks did he get?

Best I can tell his tweet didn't link to any article of his. And from the video below there were two other people. Which to me says he wasn't simply pulling stuff out of thin air.

I wrote off his initial tweet, since he is a UVA-guy. But now that the video is released, he clearly had some extremely inside information at the time.

Ratcliff is generally a good reporter, but he definitely knows how to play to his hoo-centric audience.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

So sad on so many different levels.

#MakeTheMove . . . "Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

Wow..a lot to unpack there

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Holy shit is all I can say. That was quite the read.

Well that escalated quickly

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

This is definitely some sort of made for TV drama stuff

Midnight in the Hahn Horticulture Garden of Good and Evil

Sheesh... some messed up shite on that thread.

Is coronavirus over yet?

From a free page.

Virginia Tech linebacker Isi Etute was charged with second-degree murder
Etute was a three-star recruit in the class of 2021. He played linebacker for Frank W. Cox High School in Virginia Beach. He ranked 39th among prospects in the state and 1,494th nationally, per 247Sports. He had scholarship offers from Appalachian State, East Carolina, Kent State and Liberty.

The outside linebacker committed to Virginia Tech last summer and enrolled for classes this spring as one of three freshman LBs added to the roster going into the 2021 season. He participated in spring camp, which ended on Apr. 15. He was supposed to compete for playing time down the line, with a head start as an early enrollee.

In the state of Virginia, all murders that don't meet the qualifications for first-degree murder are considered second-degree murder. A conviction for second-degree murder is punishable by a minimum of five years and a maximum of 40 years in prison.

.

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. ๐ŸŽฃ

This is horrible on so many levels. At least Coach K announced his retirement the same day.

I pull up the Athletic site a few minutes ago and this is the first thing I see. Terrible, sad in so many ways.

I am not going to bring up what is being talked about on the VT Reddit boards because I do not know if it is against the TKP guidelines, but if anyone wants to head over there, there is some insight into the motivation of why this happened. A lot of horrible stuff leading up to it that I simply can't verify, but the whole this is awful and unacceptable either way, regardless of context prior to the incident.

If there's any truth to any of it, this may make national headlines a second time. Such an all around strange and sad story.

After catching up on this story i'm all...

via GIPHY

Truly devastating story, feel for all parties involved.

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

If you Facebook search Angie Renee like the Reddit thread suggests and take a look at the friend list... wow.

This case is liable to make itself into a Netflix documentary one day. Even if we don't know all of the details, it is heartbreaking. Hate to see this kid getting tangled up in such a web of lies. Hope he gets some great lawyers.

Edit: Accounts under Angie Renee are definitely fake. Stolen / catfished photos.

#MakeVTFootballFunAgain

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

Your friend should probably check if her identity has been stolen or if any of her social media accounts have been compromised. She should probably contact the Blacksburg PD as well.

EDIT: According to that VT Reddit thread, there are Tinder accounts with her pictures on it as well.

Yeah there's like 3 different accounts under the same name and most the friends are roughly 18-22 year old males. Thats sus as fuck

Tears in my eyes
Chasing Ponce de Leon's phantoms
So filled with hope
I can taste mythical fountains
False hope, perhaps
But the truth never got in my way
Before now, feel the sting
Feeling time bearing down

She is contacting Blacksburg PD today.

#MakeVTFootballFunAgain

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

I hate that I even have to suggest this, but plenty of the rumors around this case seem to have some smoke. Some are alleging that Blacksburg PD covered for this guy. I have no idea if that is true, but your friend should consider sending whatever she sent BPD to FBI Roanoke/Richmond just in case they also have an investigation into this event.

Will do thanks. He definitely used a lot of old photos of her prior to her making her accounts private a few years back. Blacksburg PD told her that stolen pics used for fake accounts is very common.

In a completely unrelated incident involving a different person, a very attractive female friend of mine in Charlotte just posted online that someone is out there on dating apps posing as her and using her photos. What a fucking crazy world we live in. If any Charlotte Hokies come across dating accounts featuring a smoking hot blonde with a hunting dog and fly fishing photos, it's fake.

#MakeVTFootballFunAgain

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

If any Charlotte Hokies come across dating accounts featuring a smoking hot blonde with a hunting dog and fly fishing photos, it's fake.

....umm, can you tell the real version to call me?

Does she have a sister? /s kinda

He said give to me Roscoe

Not until she denies me for a second time

#MakeVTFootballFunAgain

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

So, there is a girl on FB, Emily Toler, who it looks like is friends with Etute, posted much of what was talked about in the reddit thread...the replies to her comments are wild. Guys posting screenshots of the creepy ass messages that "Angie Renee" had been sending them.

This is definitely gonna be a movie one day. I'm definitely starting to be far more sympathetic to Etute

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

The comments/replies to that post are absolutely wild. A few screenshots show he had been continually messaging/soliciting people for 1-2 years.

There are other people on there now posting stuff from *SIX* years ago. Some of the timestamps on the messages go all the way back to 2015. What the hell.

โ€œAlso, a microwave has never danced it's ass off to Jackie Wilson.โ€ - AssPocketFullOWhiskey

Holy smokes! I should've never started reading and googling the info that's being circulated right now. I'm beyond sick to my stomach and I agree with others, if any of it is true, this will be talked about for a while.

Some of the comments I've read pinning this on the coaches is beyond unbelievable. I just can't believe how sick the world seems sometimes. Very sad.

Tyrod did it Mikey, Tyrod did it!!

pinning this on the coaches is beyond unbelievable

I don't doubt people are having this take but that is certifiably insane.
(and I'm not exactly hoping for another year of Fuente, either)

There are numerous people saying the coaches should have canceled the recruiting event, Despite the victim not being found until after 1030pm that night, who are blaming Pete for insensitive Twitter posts etc. not sure how that is working out in their heads.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

Only thing that comes to mind is internet trolling or just ignorant fans looking for excuses to pile on to the coaching staff.

I have a UVA friend who's been blowing my phone up since this was announced. Granted he hasn't heard the rumors around the case, but comments like "Thug U strikes again" make me question our friendship.

Edit: talking to some friends inside VT administration and they're hearing the same sick rumors. Literally sickening.

Tyrod did it Mikey, Tyrod did it!!

What sick rumors? About trolling the staff over this?

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

No, the rumors in the reddit thread linked here about the victim's dealings & behavior.

Twitter me

Oh gotcha

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Hoos shouldn't be throwing stones when it comes to a student athlete killing someone.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Oh Shit

And apparently the FBI is involved now.

This is getting weirder and weirder by the minute

Tears in my eyes
Chasing Ponce de Leon's phantoms
So filled with hope
I can taste mythical fountains
False hope, perhaps
But the truth never got in my way
Before now, feel the sting
Feeling time bearing down

You couldn't make this make up. If you did, it would be laughed off as some weird fan fiction.

All the different threads that are currently out there surrounding this story...it's just absolutely bonkers, and will probably give you whiplash if you try to keep up with them all with how quickly things are developing.

โ€œAlso, a microwave has never danced it's ass off to Jackie Wilson.โ€ - AssPocketFullOWhiskey

I don't like putting too much faith in rumors, but a lot of these are consistent, some have documentation, and some line up with allegations about Centros from months ago

When I first heard this, I thought "in what circumstance does an 18 year old new-in-town college freshman end up at a 40 year old townie's apartment."

Well, that reddit thread potentially answers that, and it's even crazier than I thought.

Horrible, horrible situation

For real. I know rumors are against TKP guidelines, and I typically ignore them myself, but in this case the publicly available information is too weird and the rumors make too much sense. I personally believe them.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

Yeah I have refrained from posting any of the rumors myself for the same reason, but there is a lot of corroboration out there from locals/students.

I read a lot of those threads thinking, "what the hell is Centros?" Then I realized I haven't been to Blacksburg since fall 2019...

Well if there is any truth to all of the rumors floating around about that place, it probably won't be around much longer.

I literally just ate there on Sunday

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Do you remember it?

"It's always great to beat UVA, that makes us all smarter and better looking for a couple days".

Yea. Don't remember seeing the deceased there but obviously wasn't looking for him.

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

He was making a satirical comment referring to the alleged druggings there :)

Reading that stuff from students/former staff/townspeople, I really don't get how that place is still in business, or at the very least, still has an ABC license. Maybe they were under investigation and a decision just hadn't been made yet. Separate from this murder case, that restaurant has giant red flags all around it.

I really don't get how that place is still in business, or at the very least, still has an ABC license.

Said the same about El Rods when I was a student. They gave zero shits about underage drinking there, and from what I understand, nearly 20 years later, they still don't.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

I thought they lost their liquor license for a hot second in like 2017? Regardless, you just needed a piece of paper that said 21 on it and they gave it to you.

Hell, I rolled a cooler into that restaurant one time and used it as my chair

Same as Pedro's back in the day. Spent many a Thursday there for $2 Jumbo Margarita Night.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Story is now a front page headline on the four letter website.

#MakeVTFootballFunAgain

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

And the 3 letter

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Does anyone know if Packer and Dhuram Brought it up?

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

People watch that?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Yes, especially during the season. One of them is married to a hokie so he brings up VT a lot.

I Haven't watched it after football season ended

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

It was showing up on the front page of ESPN so I imagine it would have come up

VT '17

Front page of ESPN, SI, CNN, and now ABCNews.

With Coach K announcing his retirement? I'd say that brings the odds back down to even money.

Rumor was that the deceased was the mayor's nephew. The mayor said that was false.

Interestingly, a WDBJ7 news reporter says that he told them multiple times that the mayor was his aunt...

I dunno if this crosses over the guidlines, but one of the things I was reading over on Reddit was that Smith would frequently lie about random stuff.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

The mayor has confirmed that the victim was not related to her.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I mean anything else he lied about in the past is technically unverified ATM (based off of Reddit comments), even if this lie is verified by an official source.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

Yikes. Way, way premature to claim this is "senseless violence."

Murder is senseless, whether there was self defense or not.

All sensible acts to deescalate and contain a situation were exhausted or eliminated, and murder was committed.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

That's if you assume he's guilty of murder...

so if not found guilty of murder, the murder is then sensible? I'm not sure I'm following your suggestion here based on the OP's comment that a sensible resolution is to deescalate instead of murder.

Edit: I guess in the context of everything, there is a man killed and a man being charged of 2nd degree murder and that's what you're implying. The original comment by the Mayor was "senseless violence" and thus we're getting even further from the intention of the original comment by implying the specific charges. My point is that murder is senseless, even if it goes unconvicted. Not every murder ends in conviction.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

As I read it, what he's saying is if it wasn't murder, it can't be a senseless murder. It might be a senseless death or whatever, but it would't be a senseless "murder".

Unless, as he said, you assume he is guilty of murder (without knowing many of the facts, let alone the defense's story).

If it is self defense, it isn't murder at all and makes sense (hypothetically speaking, not necessarily related to this case). But, if it is self defense, the violent act toward the accused would be senseless.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

I think it's very premature for anyone to take a definitive side on this one.

100% disagree

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Especially because she never used the word "allegedly" or anything. Yet in a separate reply, she made sure that "alleged" is used for the Mr. Smith/Centros allegations

As someone in the replies pointed out, perhaps she should have been prudent to call Mr. Etute's allegations alleged as well

She never mentioned Etute (at least not in the tweet linked above. I haven't read all her tweets). She said the senseless violence that led to Jerry Smith's death. Whether or not Etute is even involved, Jerry Smith appears to have been murdered. I think it is understandable to call that senseless until a time where the police no longer believe he was murdered.

Seems like a pretty standard political response to not really take a position either way but say that the dead person would, ideally, not be dead.

Jerry smith appears to have been murdered

Murder is a specific criminal charge, and we do not yet know whether Etute is guilty of that.

You do make a good point about her not mentioning Etute by name. Regardless, I'm not a fan of the statement, especially with the reply

The police currently believe he was murdered. That fact doesn't reference who the murderer is at all. The fact of "a murder" exists outside the context of the criminal charge against Etute.

If Etute is guilty, Smith was murdered. If he is innocent...still seems likely Smith was murdered. Hence "Jerry Smith appears to have been murdered."

If Jerry Smith was murdered, I think it is 100% defensible to call that action senseless even if you don't know who did it.

To be clear, I don't want to make any claims about Etute's innocence or guilt. I'm also really struggling to see where the mayor did that in any way either. All she did was reference the fact that there was a murder, and conclude that in her opinion, murder is senseless. The only way that is wrong is if it turns out that Smith was not murdered, and even then, she hasn't directed her comment towards anyone in particular. I think that makes her original statement pretty standard given the information we have right now.

There is a difference between "killing" and "murder." There are other ways for someone to be killed at the hands of another besides "murder" (i.e. self defense, manslaughter). Yes, the current cause of death is "homicide" based on a medical examination; however, that has not taken into account the circumstances to which the perpetrator brought about the death upon Mr. Smith (i.e. it could have been self defense, manslaughter, etc.)

I personally just don't like the statement from a government official on an ongoing criminal investigation when we are still learning the facts. Who knows, maybe the violence wasn't "senseless" and it was actually self defense. Perhaps just wishful thinking, but in a sensitive situation like this with so many unknowns, it seems responsible to hold off on convicting him in the court of public opinion.

But she didn't even say murder. I did. And sure I'll say homicide was a more proper term in the situation.

She said senseless violence. There appears to have been senseless violence. She didn't even make a claim about the form of that senseless violence. You are the one making the further connection between that tweet and Isi Etute. Not the Mayor.

Sure with more information it may turn out that the violence wasn't senseless, but again...I see nothing wrong with going with the current knowledge, especially when you, in no way, have blamed any specific person.

Edit: it might also be the case that she wouldn't have made a statement at all, except it seems appropriate to address the situation before dispelling the popular rumor that you are related to the victim. In that scenario saying what amounts to "I wish he wasn't dead" then "he isn't my nephew" seems like a complete non-issue response.

Her statement doesn't really bother me and I know this is going down the rabbit hole, but I think the point is that instead of saying "I condemn the senseless violence that resulted in..." she could have said she was "saddened at the death of..." and then continued with the statement that she isn't related to the person.

We don't know that there was any violence. All that we know is that a person is dead, there are allegations of violence and a person has been arrested. For all we know he may have tripped over his shoelaces and fallen down some stairs. Her statement is assuming facts not yet in evidence.

Why are people even concerned over what the mayor said? All that matters are the people involved in the case. She is not. Who cares?

Probably because unfortunately in this day and age public perception from elected officials has an effect on the results of trials?

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

Sadly you are probably correct. However, we are talking about a mayor of a small town who essentially has no larger power especially when it comes to a murder case.

There was a rumor she was tangentially involved with the case. She made a comment dispelling that rumor. That should be the end of it.

My comments were responding to someone suggesting she had done something wrong by doing that in an innocuous way.

edit: also using as evidence her attempts to stay out of commenting on the situation at all. I can't find anything where she makes a comment on either party that is involved outside of saying she isn't related to the victim.

You nailed it.

Isaiah Wright, was in the car while his friend murdered their pot dealer, and instead of playing D1 after Last Chance U, he went back to jail for another year. Could never corroborate his side of the story. There's a great followup episode that goes over the court trial.

I bring this up in response to rumors of other players possibly being involved. If they knew, or didn't, their presence alone can land jail time.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Proximate cause is a bitch

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

If it's determined that a person was present at the scene of the crime and somehow involved in the commission of the crime without actually committing the crime, you can be convicted of the crime as a principal in the 2nd degree. So for example, if I drove another person to a place to commit a murder, but stayed in my car as it went down, I could still be convicted of murder. It requires some level of knowledge and intent- if a guy hired an Uber to drive him to kill a guy, but the Uber driver had no knowledge of anything, the Uber driver wouldn't be liable.

Another scenario is if I drove the car to a bank robbery and you shot and killed a guard during the getaway then I could be charged with murder as well. [I served on a jury for this]

An attorney with a gmail account - that can't be a great sign for a defendant.

I was super curious and did a lap through her website. Seems like she has plenty of experience and a fairly normal path to being in that position. As an aside, she graduated from law school the same year that I did and the state in which I practice is more than comfortable with me representing people accused of any crime on the books, including murder.

Among other private criminal defense attorneys in my circle I'd say it's about 50/50 @gmail.com vs @'lawfirmofwhatever'.com. I have the latter, but that's solely because a very close friend is an IT guy who literally set up the entire system for me.

Normal people can afford to hire attorneys for DUIs, misdemeanor domestics, drug possession, and shit like that. The amount of money that it takes to get good representation for a case of this magnitude is truly staggering. I'm on the list for appointments in my jurisdiction, and that makes up most of my practice right now. I would gladly take a case like this as an appointment. State pays its bills.

I also take private pay work, but honestly if somebody's family came into my office wanting to hire me on this case I probably wouldn't take their money. The amounts are just so high that my former public defender heart couldn't in good conscience bill somebody that much.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

Your insight is appreciated. Can you explain what is the legal process right now? He had a court date today and has a next one in September. What types of things would happen at today's and September's court dates? Forgive my ignorance.

My guess is that he was advised of the charges today, or waived advisement through his attorney. If he is eligible for bond, one may have been set. My guess would be the next court date (September seems a little bit far out, but not unreasonably so) would be a preliminary hearing and probably a bond hearing.

Best guess for what happened today is 'nothing interesting'. The next court date could be juicy. The state at that point would have to call witnesses and put up enough evidence to convince the judge that there is probable cause to believe that Mr. Etute committed the crime. That's a hilariously low burden and typically affirmative defenses (like self defense) cannot be raised at that hearing.

I'm not licensed in Virginia and have basically no experience in Virginia whatsoever, but that's a pretty typical process for felony cases.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

Thanks again. Man, it's really frustrating how even IF he isn't in the wrong here, he could still have to be in jail for quite a while as they sort things out.

His appointed attorney is probably trying to get a bond hearing ASAP. Should be interesting to see what the CA decides to reveal during the bond hearing and what to reserve for prelim.

Just out of curiosity, what would happen in a hearing like today's if an accused said, "Your Honor, we're ready to go to trial now"?

99% likelihood the prosecution would not be ready- they'd need to have witnesses subpoenaed, lab reports done, etc. All that takes time. They are entitled to an opportunity to prepare their case. The judge would say, "sir, we're not having your trial today, your preliminary hearing date is set for (X). Talk to your attorney about a bond hearing. Bailiff, next case."

In the state in which I practice the defendant could enter a not guilty plea and get a trial date within 6 months. But they're not getting a trial today.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

Does 6 months qualify as "speedy trial"? I always wonder about that right, because it seems to be one of the least discussed in the Constitution.

I'm curious about that as well

As a former public defender I would gladly take their money. I'm a greedy mercenary.

lol. No judgment. My wife, who still is a public defender, is always like 'motherfucker, what was the point of you leaving the public defender's office if you're not going to rake it in?'

She's not wrong.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

Achievement unlocked: All of the Fullers

"Sam Rogers is a college football icon" SB Nation

Thanks Frank!

Just out of curiosity, how does Jimmy get paid in a case like this?

Guessing Etute's family

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Speculative, but I bet he's taking a way reduced fee from the family because it's a high profile case.

I also saw at least one gofundme floating around

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

This whole thing just makes me sad. Isi loses regardless of the outcome because next time you google his name it will be the first thing that pops up. Obviously the outcome of not guilty or guilty will determine the level of losing. Jerry Smith loses, I don't know him, don't know how much of the allegations from that Reddit thread are true or not, but being murdered is still, for lack of words, bad. VT football loses on name association, same with VT the institution. His teammates lose because now this is going to be on their minds, regardless of the fact that he's only been in Blacksburg since spring.

This just fucking sucks.

Even just his mugshot makes me sad. Looks like a devastated and scared kid, which I'm sure he is

Shit, 18 years old, fresh outta high school, full football scholarship to possibly doing hard time for murder, all in the blink of an eye....I'd say devastated and scared would be an understatement

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Just be prepared for the slings and arrows that are inevitable with this kind of stuff from other teams' fans at games. If we stay calm, collected, and don't engage, there's no doubt about who the assholes are in the stands.

Fuck em

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Sort of overshadows air soft pistols and pot.

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. ๐ŸŽฃ

It does. I'll add pepper spray at BW3s to the list

Can't forget the draino and aluminum foil "bomb".

Brandishing a handgun at McDonald's

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Two others were with him per WDBJ. Buckle up. Seems like things will get even crazier.

Another white bronco? The first one didn't go too far.

Why would the property owner release this to the media now? Money I would assume.

Somewhere (I think 247) mentioned who else was allegedly with him

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Like most reporting these days, basic info left out. No time stamp on the video and no mention by the reporter of how long they were there. Regardless, sure looks like they were there with trouble in mind, however after reading the (National Inquirer) reddit thread, my head is exploding and I still have no idea what the basic link between three players and a 40 year old low life was. I think this is one of those rare cases where I actually wouldn't want to dodge jury duty.
This is like a nasty accident on the highway, wish it had never happened but we are all slowing down to take a close look. Sad day in Bburg again.

The LewDew, Professional Golf Bum

This is where the conversation should stop for now unless someone really knows something. In that case, they should go to the police.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

Duplicate of MaroonX2's post.

Slow fingers. That video footage is not good. Clearly two other people (possibly) involved.

EDIT: jumped the gun assuming players. Only thing clear from the video is there were other people with Isi.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Clearly

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

This new Roanoke Times article basically paints Jerry Smith as a pathological liar even though they called it "eccentric" and "sensationalism". This trial is going to extremely heavily watched.

Roanoke Times

I agree on how heavily watched the trial will be. However, the character statements in the RT about the victim will likely be moot given they have no bearing on his death (i.e., being sensationalist does not equate to being worthy of murder). The facts are a person was killed by someone else in Blacksburg. That person is likely to be the accused as seen in the video provided to WDBJ7. More details will follow, but the timing of the arrest combined with video evidence and FBI involvement does not mean anything good for the accused. Side note though for anyone interested... the FBI is likely only involved to analyze the video evidence as they have superior capacity than most agencies.

Edit... I'd like to add concerning the character statement for Etute about how shocked the staff was on the charges. While that may be true, the "out of the blue" surprise is non-sense. People can feel or think that way, but the truth is anyone given the right opportunity can commit any crime.

They also pointed out that he has had AT LEAST SIXTEEN (16) charges DROPPED against him since 2006, plus a couple that he was actually convicted of, including entering a McDonald's to disable computer software (wtf). Of course this is not to mention all the many allegations that he was not charged with. I hate it so much that an 18 year old freshman got tangled up with this guy and that this is what happened. I also hate it that Smith got away with almost everything over the past decade or two, from a legal standpoint.

article: https://roanoke.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/link-between-virginia-te...

As a long time fan of Law and Order, a handful of convictions and at least 16 dropped charges makes me strongly suspect he might have been a confidential informant. That would also explain how he had been doing what he has been doing for decades and not winding up in jail. If I were Turk, during discovery I would be requesting a statement in writing from all three counties if they were aware if he had ever been a CI at any point in time for any law enforcement agency. If he was, that would turn this case on its head adding yet another layer to this onion on steroids story.

The LewDew, Professional Golf Bum

VB born, class of '14

None of which would change the fact that the victim was murdered.

No it doesn't, but it may provide a single juror with the idea that society is better off without Smith and that Etute was doing a community service. Not saying I agree or disagree, just stating what could happen.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I mean if these allegations are true, I feel this way.

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

That does not sound discoverable. I do not envision any judge forcing any of these police jurisdictions to release that information, but idk.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

Like others above I have received some just crazy information from friends in Blacksburg on this situation including that of Mr. Smith. I refuse to post any of it because that's not my place and can't prove or disprove any of it but I'm sure others have seen some of it. This whole situation is just tragic and awful for those involved and their families, friends, etc. This is well beyond football and I hope the entire truth comes out and justice is served either way based on the evidence. I'd much rather be talking about Burmeister's deep ball than this but this thing seems to have more layers than an onion on steroids...hope all of you are well and pray all involved in this case get finality one way or another. Definitely a dark time in Blacksburg๐Ÿ˜”๐Ÿ™

HokieHighVPI03

I'd much rather be talking about Burmeister's deep ball

I'll take "Things that don't exist" for 300, Alex

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Hey now, another year in the system, he is "the man", I bet he is using his time wisely in the weight room to juice up those long bombs!

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

Wouldn't you still rather be talking about that than this though?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

yes, absolutely! My comment was completely in jest because this thread is badly in need of some levity

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚....I hear ya VPI...well said๐Ÿ‘Š๐Ÿป๐Ÿ‘Š๐Ÿป๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿป....sadly this is where we are in the program ...but it's at least better talking about this than the other just sad awful situation...sucks man

HokieHighVPI03

Probably the least surprising news about this story so far. Very good news for Isi too.

Tangentially Related

Now that the problem has advanced to a death, police are investigating reports of alleged suspicious activity that occurred at Centro Taco Bar over the past several months.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Wow, what was stopping them before? Too focused on cleaning up the underage drinking "problem"?

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

This seems like a bit of a leap. The investigation is now being reported because of the crazy circumstances. It is only conjecture that the investigation was not ongoing and only recently started.

It's an unwritten law that it's my lunch pail. I've issued the challenge. If someone outworks me, they can get it.
Darryl Tapp

We'll see what facts come out over time, but I strongly disagree that it's a "leap" to call into question exactly what they have or haven't been doing to investigate what has apparently been a disturbing number of reports going back several months with seemingly nothing being done until a dead body shows up.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

What facts do we have that indicate "seemingly nothing has been done"?

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Several months going by and no one being arrested? I don't get what's confusing here. How many people are/were going to get roofied before they caught them?

And *if* the rumors are true it sure sounds like half the damn town could have pointed them to a person of interest if they had asked. That's an "if" I'll grant you, but boy is there a lot of smoke.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

It isn't unheard of to investigate and gather evidence for months or years. While that is going on, the cops aren't going to be broadcasting what is being investigated. I have no idea if that is what is going down in Blacksburg, but it is just as likely as assuming they just opened an investigation.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

So is there a period of time where you think it would have been reasonable to question their response time? One year? Two years? Five years? For me, they've already had plenty of time. This is Blacksburg, not downtown Richmond.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

I guess there could be if I knew more. Investigations do not always find the evidence needed to lead to action.

Another thing I have just been thinking about: almost all sexual predators record or document their victims in some way. The murder investigation could easily open up additional evidence. If video is available, it could also explain why an arrest was made so quickly.

Just thoughts.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Certain crimes have a statute of limitation, and it varies by state. Those crimes aside, the state can take as much time as they want/need between when a crime is committed and when charges are filed. Building a case, collecting evidence, takes time and resources.

Twitter me

Agreed. Just because a news article just came out that they are investigating multiple roofie/drugging crimes that occurred over the previous months doesn't mean they haven't been investigating anything. Drug screenings can take a while sometimes. I know some cities/states had massive backlogs for this and in the past year have finally starting pushing to get through these.

Kinda disconcerting that it sounds as though these allegations/rumors have been floating around for months about that place according to the *many* comments I've seen about it...yet this seems to be the first time they're actually being looked into. I feel like it probably shouldn't have taken something of this magnitude before they were taken seriously...?

โ€œAlso, a microwave has never danced it's ass off to Jackie Wilson.โ€ - AssPocketFullOWhiskey

Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a crisis for people to actually do their job

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

It's been 24 years since I was a student in Blacksburg. The cops then were really good a chasing down students for drunk in public's and not much else. I suspect not much has changed. And Mr. Smith seems to have had some kind of local connection and protection for him to get away with his activities for so long. In a way, he kind of built up his own karma.

At the same time, all that's gonna matter for Etute is that he took it on himself to be cops, judge, jury, and executioner which is big time wrong.

No matter what, local authorities looking the other way on Mr. Smith, whatever happened and resulted in this outcome, it's gonna add up to being a really bad image for the town at least and it might turn out to be justifiably so.

Not that I'm a big time Fuente supporter or non-supporter either way, but the guy just can't catch an offseason break. If he doesn't have a breakout season, I wouldn't be surprised to see him decide on his own to cut ties and start over somewhere else. Just too much baggage is being built up and a good bit of it is not on him.

With everything that has come to light in the last few days, this is about as solid a take as I've seen from multiple points of view.

it's gonna add up to being a really bad image for the town at least and it might turn out to be justifiably so.

Yea - I'm wondering if this story gets crazy if it hurts recruiting even more.

Twitter me

I don't know about recruiting but I think I know where the next CrimeCon needs to be held.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I've seen people say this in different places and I don't think that's the case. I think people think waaaay too much about football. To put things into perspective, and there's no real way to say this without sounding awful so forgive me a bit here, there's a 2 year span from 07 to 09 of national headlines where the town had a prisoner escape who killed cops near campus during a manhunt, a horrific mass shooting on campus, and then a grad student murdered and decapitated another student. Football did just fine afterwards. VT the university was still VT.

Again, sorry for the overt bluntness and I hope I don't offend anyone because that's not my intent, but I don't really know how to phrase it any better. There's some really bad stuff that can happen but it doesn't really affect other things. The only times you really see it play out against the institutions is if they are directly responsible for the incidents. Like think about the big hit Penn St took after Sandusky. There's other examples as well. Most people can look at this situation, acknowledge how fucked up and awful it is, and also realize the school and the program didn't have anything to do with it.

I think you have a valid point, but there is one big difference between the examples you cited and this one. The other 3 didn't involve a single football player (victim or perpetrator) and in this case a VT football player is the alleged perpetrator.

Edit: I'm only referring to the VT examples you cited

Yea - I'm wondering if this story gets crazy if it hurts recruiting even more.

Jerry Sandusky didn't hurt Penn State recruiting.

It did for a short period of time:

Year PSU composite ranking
2009 19
2010 13
2011 31
2012 47
2013 33
2014 24
2015 14
2016 20

I suppose VT recruiting can't get much worse, so I shouldn't worry that much

Twitter me

Did perception affect recruiting or were recruits concerned about how long the sanctions would affect football?

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

eIther way it affected recruiting.

I remember going to a big Penn State game in 2013 and the Sandusky thing still hovered over the program.

Tyrod did it Mikey, Tyrod did it!!

I considered this as well - it's tough to say without much deeper analysis.

Twitter me

It is also easy to forget now that they lost a hall of fame coach in Paterno.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Is this the overall class ranking, if so bigger classes get better rankings, so if you don't have scholarships then your rankings will be lower.

Also Bill O'Brien was thr coach and he has proven he is terrible at managing personnel /s

Sandusky's arrest led to scholarship reductions, which directly affected those reduced recruiting scores.

That's not going to affect us.

I'm not going to weigh in on the rumors surrounding the victim. (Rumors which could apparently launch its own miniseries at this point).

But the idea that this incident blowing up makes VT a LESS welcoming place for a prospective student? If, in this blow up it came out that our university has a problem with local predators in general, you may be onto something. Until we start hearing that, I'm not sure how this would negatively affect recruiting.

Gotta put the Mod Hat on for a sec and caution everyone not to draw straight lines between allegations as a matter of fact.

There's a whole lot of social media litigation of both Jerry Smith and Isi Etute going on right now, and (generally) let's try our best not to engage in that

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Sigh, I've debated posting this but had a drink so what the hell. The Appalachians have a very sordid past. We tend to think only cities do but...
There are two books out by Ron Peterson over the past few years. There is Chasing the Squirrel which details the massive drug smuggler Wally Thrasher who was moving massive amounts of cocaine from Belize through the NRV in the 80's and was never caught. But the connection in Isi's case is with Peterson's other book - Under The Trestle. Nobody seems to be mentioning the oddness of this creep's landlord connection, I believe it deserves at least a mention. There are way too many law charges on this guy that just got "dropped." It's like he knows somebody or maybe he knows where somebody is buried. The land lord has shown up in several media quotes. This is not the first time the Cranwell family has been involved in a major scandal in the NRV.
I'm not saying it's a conspiracy nor do I have any other intel, other than growing up in the area and knowing that family name from the Steve Epperly trial. Then, I start reading quotes from this predator's landlord, and recognize the connection. And her tenant who she talks so kindly about, who...might have had some type of protection from the law. I'm not going to comment any further and I'll let you go down the rabbit hole further from here if you wish.
It's odd. It's peculiar. None of this adds up. But there is shit here that goes waaay back into the cornfield.

Hokies involved in Steve Epperly murder trial

Radford University Review - Under The Tressel

I'm the proud father of Wallace Thrasher's great great niece and nephew!!

Beat GT

Crime Junkie podcast has an episode on the Gina Hall/Epperly case for anybody interested.

That is a hell of a connection.

Have not heard that podcast about it yet. Might check it out.
There were a lot of people involved and connected in that case.

I want to know who Jerry DeHart was and what his connection to Epperly was. And why his wife told police in 1988 that he helped Epperly dismember Gina Hall's body? Which matches the fact that the Meadow Creek farmer told his family he saw two men dismembering a body in the creek right after Gina was killed.

The Appalachians have a very sordid past. We tend to think only cities do but...

After living in State College, PA - another small town of similar size and composition - for the last 15 years, I think I can say that small towns are breeding grounds for sordid things. With smaller and tighter-knit communities, I think small towns can hide terrible things much better and for much longer than cities can.

With smaller and tighter-knit communities, I think small towns can hide terrible things much better and for much longer than cities can.

Also, if you're a sociopath, there's just less people you have to mislead.

Twitter me

Resources are much better in cities. About 10 years ago the town a grew up in had their first murder in like 70 years. They had to bring in detectives from another jurisdiction because they don't have any. So smaller towns might not have the infrastructure to support when things like what is rumored happen.

Also small towns everyone knows everyone, so people can be dismissive of people because you're so and so's boy. And they know and like your pappy.

In a lot of cases, their infrastructure is pretty much "call State Police" for anything more severe than jaywalking.

Fun connection here, my great grandfather worked with Epperly at RU. The one thing my great grandfather said about that case was that there was no way for anyone to tell if the incinerator on campus had been started or not. Their boss who spoke to the police and confirmed that the incinerator had not been started over the weekend, was full of shit.

So I'm pretty sure that's why there was no body to recover in Gina Hall's case.

I had heard that rumor as well. The one I heard more growing up more probably was that, at that time, supposedly was when the concrete was being poured for the foundation of the Dedmon Center. With all that said, it sounds like the prevailing theory (according to Gina's sister) is that the body was dismembered and placed in several different places. My mom was just telling me about how in the last couple of weeks they seem to have found several pieces of bone and Gina's bracelet near where a farmer saw two bloody men in a creek bed who said they were cutting up fishing bait. He had been terrified to say anything except to his family so after his death his grandson went to the police recently.
Mountain No Longer Holds My Sister's Secret

My uncle had also heard the Dedmon Center foundation rumor. I wasn't aware there was activity going on in the case. All these articles are new to me. Thanks, Fireman!

Except some of the remains have been recently found...Gina Hall Remains Found

Although, after more reading, this magical DNA instrument may not be all that Dr. Vass claims it to be (LINK). Feel bad for Hall's sister, Bodmer, because she seems rather convinced in that first article that she has found Gina's remains.

Well, Bodmer is claiming victory with that facebook post, but are there any other press releases? confirmed in an independent or state lab? Or is she still basing it all on Dr. Vass's instrument and the fact they found bones?

This is so crazy! Hope she gets closure.

Yeah, as soon as I read that I paused and doubted the whole thing. From the follow-up Facebook posts it's clear they haven't verified anything they found is actually Gina's. I feel bad for the sister.

Don't have facebook and haven't seen the follow-up posts you mention, but I'm not surprised to hear that. Vass may be committing fraud.

I could be wrong, but I feel like this guy is respected in his field, and at the same time is taking advantage of people with damaged psyches that are desperate to heal from trauma.

I really hope we get Mathew McConaughey back for the season of True Detective this is going to be made into...

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

Yes! That first season of True Detective was insanely good. He and Woody were great together.

Tyrod did it Mikey, Tyrod did it!!

Alright Alright Alright, he's gonna spend All Night All Night All Night investigating this case, and for the effort put in he's gonna use All Might All Might All Might, and when he's the bailiff one day he'll tell the courtroom to All Rise All Rise All Rise.

CompSci

UH BS 20, VT MS 23.

Go Coogs, Go Hokies.

I've never read through a more "rumored" post on TKP than this. Until we know WTF is going on, I suggest we let it play out and then condemn the wrong side.

"What are you going to do, stab me? - Quote from Man Stabbed

I generally agree but this case is so weird I think the rumors are OK. Most people are choosing their words wisely when discussing rumors that are already floating elsewhere. And in many instances (my personal as well) the rumors didn't start around this case but rather they're old rumors that suddenly became relevant again. I think that's notable enough to discuss as long as it stays relatively mature and we acknowledge the gravity of the situation.

In a Roanoke Times article, a spokesman for Smith's family described him as "112 pounds soaking wet." I wonder if that is a hyperbole, because that is extremely underweight for an adult man of normal height. But it got me to thinking that hypothetically a couple punches from a big strong man weighing more than twice as much could be lights out. Just something I was thinking about, not that it really adds anything meaningful to the discussion.

Been thinking about that even before you posted this. It may be somewhat hyperbolic, but at the same time not far from reality. If you knew him, he's always looked as if a stiff breeze could blow him over, and I doubt it would take much effort for someone with the workout regimen of a D1 football player.

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

I think I saw 6'2", 125, but had the same thought. 18 year old linebacker could have just tried to push him away and it have been a lot more forceful than intended.

So kind of like the upcoming Paul-Mayweather fight if Paul buy some miracle lands a punch?

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

I despise Mayweather, but I want to see him rearrange Paul's face so bad it rearranges his brother's.

Hell, I'm debating going into a sports bar to watch it on a school night.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

This is one of those fights where you don't know what outcome is the worst, maybe they somehow double punch and knock each other out?

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

Nah def rooting for Paul. Not going to happen but would be insane if it did. Also Logans not that bad Jake's the one thats a tool and he's about to get his ass kicked by Tyron Woodley

DonV already predicted on his podcast what would happen: Mayweather will allow Paul to hang around in the fight long enough to make viewers believe Paul has a chance. That way there's an appetite for a rematch. So the suckers that paid once will pay again.

Don't be a sucker.

Of course I'm just saying I dislike Floyd more than Logan Paul

6'2" and 125? ๐Ÿ˜ฌ

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. ๐ŸŽฃ

I think we identified Slender Man

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Because he stalks children?

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

FWIW, Manute Bol (RIP) was 7'7", 200 in his playing days.

Some folks are just naturally slight.

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

As someone who identifies in the same size and weight

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Damn dude, I am also 6'2" and feel skinny as shit at 195. Eat some steaks! ๐Ÿ˜‰

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

Seems like it was pretty quick to go from person of interest to murder charges. Coroner could not have determined cause of death yet. Any witnesses that spoke up? How did it go so fast from welfare check to charges? Seems faster than most normal cases.

#Let's Go - Hokies

there was surveillance footage of him entering/leaving that was shown on the news

Danny is always open

And depending on the damage to the guys head, it could have been pretty easy to call the cause of death.

Neck.

Didn't they release that the autopsy said COD was blunt force trauma to the head?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

This shows just how rumors fly around. My source was a relative of Smith's who was telling us he was found with a wound in his neck. So even the dude's cousins didn't know the truth.

That's not necessarily untrue. ME just said the blunt force to the head is what caused death. Perfectly reasonable for there to be other injuries present that weren't necessarily fatal.

But don't worry, if this thing goes to trial, there will be an excruciatingly long period of it where the autopsy is rehashed by both sides.

Worst part about the court martial I served on was a full day of direct and cross of three different MEs, for a case where the defendant had already plead guilty.

Yikes.

Elliot in the Morning (morning radio) is discussing Centro.๐Ÿ‘€

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. ๐ŸŽฃ

Question here for the community legal scholars, and please note I am not trying to make any assumptions about the case one way or another with this, just asking a what if:

IF person A was catfished, person B made advances, Person A shoves Person B away, but due to massive size and strength disparity, Person B goes flying, hits/lands hard and dies from it. Wouldn't that be involuntary manslaughter vs 2nd degree murder?

If so, but the prosecutors decide to stick with the murder charge and Person A is found not guilty...can they then go back and charge with involuntary manslaughter? or is Person A then free to go?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

They cannot charge again. That is a flagrant violation of double jeopardy rules.

I don't know why second degree homicide is the charge, here. I don't think it quite qualifies, but second degree can be considered an extreme case of manslaughter, if the manslaughter is considered to be extremely reckless. The real question is what happened in that apartment. If there was buildup, second degree can be warranted. If it was a quick reaction, I think manslaughter may be a more reasonable charge.

It also goes into what the jury might consider. Jurors are more apt to not convict based on murder than manslaughter charges unless overwhelming evidence is presented. In cases like this (based on what we interneters know) a manslaughter charge might get a conviction, but I don't think murder will. Again, that's based on what we know second-third-fourth-eleventieth hand at this point.

Edit: Felony Homicide may also be used as a charge here, instead of second degree murder, as it could be argued that a non-murder related felony may have been at play, which then resulted in an accidental homicide.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Thanks! I was somewhat familiar with double jeopardy rules, thanks to Ashley Judd and Tommy Lee Jones, but wasn't sure if that meant they couldn't, for example, be charged with murder, acquitted, then charged with murder again...or if it meant they couldn't be charged for murder, acquitted, then charged on the same action on a lesser charge

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

The crime at hand would be the same. The charge doesn't matter.

Edit: Also, how qualified was she in that movie?

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Can they include both the charges for voluntary or involuntary manslaughter alongside the charge of 2nd degree murder? I was just thinking about the George Zimmerman trial, with an overzealous prosecutor that wanted to make a name for herself and went all in the 2nd degree murder charge. I think even some jury members thought that a manslaughter charge was appropriate but they were not given the option, so he was acquitted on the 2nd degree murder charge.

You can include however many charges you want.

The grand jury will decide which charges you might have going into a trial.

The petit jury with decide which charges get convictions/acquittals

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

It's highly likely that the charges on the docket will be amended AND that they put other charges to coincide with murder including a manslaughter type charge.

If the states attorneys office feels that their case is weak enough, this may result in a plea deal that ends up with a lesser conviction. Rarely do you see a plea that includes a conviction for murder.

Rarely do you see a plea that includes a conviction for murder.

I would assume this typically only occurs in death penalty states to plead for life in prison when their is overwhelming evidence.

No legal advice given or solicited here, just general observation/opinion:

So many different possibilities, and a lot would depend likely on forensic evidence, any testimony from the defendant/any witnesses, and any text or social media messages that provide some context. Looking at the potential set of facts that may be present, I would not think murder 2 is the appropriate charge, but rather voluntary manslaughter. Murder is intentional killing with the presence of malice, or essentially with ill will and without cause or excuse.

Considering the set of assumptions that we have currently (catfishing), it is more likely that this is a crime of passion, meaning action out of sudden impulse or rage in the heat of the moment, which would not rise to the level of malice but would still constitute an intentional act resulting in death. This would be voluntary manslaughter. Common example would be a sudden fight that goes too far, someone walking in on a significant other having an affair, etc. A lot is going to depend on the evidence that comes to light and the sequence of events.

In your scenario, if Person A is catfished and, upon realization of the deception, goes too far and beats Person B to death, this would likely be a case of voluntary manslaughter. However, if Person A is led somewhere under false pretenses, and upon discovery of the deception, Person B still makes advances or an unwanted action of a violent or sexual nature toward Person A, any consent that may have been established by showing up under the false pretenses is gone. If Person A, based upon Person B's advance, feels their safety is threatened, and shoves or strikes Person B to stop or disable them and leaves, and let's say Person B fell and hit their head on a table and died unbeknownst to Person A, there may be some grounds for a self-defense argument. However if Person A continually and repeatedly strikes Person B to the point of death, that defense likely would not hold.

As a former federal agent, I can tell you that it is normal prosecutorial practice to charge the highest possible offense level in a criminal case. This serves several purposes. It makes the defendant(s) worry about spending a long prison sentence and might induce them to plead to a lesser charge. It makes the prosecutor's office look tough on crime and many public prosecutors are looking for promotions and eventual judgeships or corporate jobs. Finally you don't want to start the negotiations with the defense attorney(s) from a position of anything less than your strongest hand. I am probably forgetting some things, but those are my recollections from years back.

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

We got feds in here??

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I got in trouble the first time the prosecution called an agent from (if I remember correctly) the DEA to testify and my co-counsel (now wife) heard me say ooooOOOOOooooo a federale.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

Did you get in trouble from the co-counsel (now wife) or the judge?

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

co-counsel/wife. But only because she thought it was hilarious, started laughing, started coughing, and had to step out, drawing a ton of attention to herself.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

IF person A was catfished, person B made advances, Person A shoves Person B away, but due to massive size and strength disparity, Person B goes flying, hits/lands hard and dies from it. Wouldn't that be involuntary manslaughter vs 2nd degree murder?

The time stamps from the corridor video are only 3 minutes apart - Roanoke Times updated article - 10:07 to 10:10. Isi had 3 minutes to go inside this apartment, find out this girl was a dude, act, and run out, while the other two followed. Jerry was also found on the 2nd floor of his apartment- possibly chased up there, or retreated.

Your scenario makes the most sense as to what may have happened, and I hope this is the case, and an accidental death. I hope the charges change to involuntary manslaughter, and I hope there's closure for both families involved.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Jerry was also found on the 2nd floor of his apartment- possibly chased up there, or retreated.

Or could've been a case of "I'll leave the front door unlocked, meet me up in the 2nd floor bedroom when you get here"

Which according to screen shots from Angie Renee's messages, seemed to be the typical MO

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

There's discussion about this on the Unhelpful Advice podcast. Use Spotify to listen. Includes accounts about Angie Renee/Jerry Smith.

CompSci

UH BS 20, VT MS 23.

Go Coogs, Go Hokies.

buckle up

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

The kid should've had a lawyer. Going to be an uphill battle to beat that in court.

Yeah, where was Turk?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

If I had to guess, I'd say the statement was during arrest/before a lawyer was appointed

"I don't know what a Hokie is, but God is one of them" -Lee Corso

Ah, yeah, I glossed over where it said he "told police" all this stuff

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

"Etute went back for another meeting.... It was then that he discovered Smith was a man"

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

If that wasn't the first time encounter, there were a couple things in that reddit thread that could be possible explanations

"Door will be open, lights out, come on it"

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I know what you're talking about, but wouldn't all of the red flags have been raised the first time you went over and the girl in the profile picture was never there?

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

Maybe lights were out as someone said above, who knows really. And we're talking about an 18 year old kid who was naรฏve enough to fall for an obvious catfish account (people who saw the Angie accounts said they were clearly fake) and naรฏve enough to tell police everything without an attorney. Of course, when we look at it, it doesn't really make any sense, but none of this does.

I'd be curious as to whether any of the other thousands of people that "Angie" supposedly messaged, did any of them meet for a sexual encounter. If so, did they have a similar story?

I feel like many would be singing a different tune if it was a woman who had been tricked into non-consensual sexual acts

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

I'd be curious as to whether any of the other thousands of people that "Angie" supposedly messaged, did any of them meet for a sexual encounter.

Short answer, yes I did see at least one story along those lines. Reportedly "Angie" wore a hoodie and the poster couldn't tell what their true sex was. I guess if you're dumb and horny enough you're willing to look past the red flags? IDK, I can kind of see how it could have happened but it's still pretty crazy.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

Not to make light of this tragedy but there are quite a few cities across SE Asia that have many proof of concepts that demonstrate the reality of men being mislead, willingly and unwillingly, into believing a man is actually a woman.

There is also currently a huge crime ring here in China of men dressing up convincingly as women online, using prosthetic breasts and vaginas to trick men to masturbate on call believing they have found a connection with a beautiful woman, only to be called afterwards and blackmailed for tens of thousands of dollars over the threat of releasing the video online and ruining their reputation and possible arrest.

Not saying this catfishing was more than just catfishing for sex, but it is A LOT more common these days to be convincingly "trapped" than ever before.

Let's add this anecdote as the first item on a list of things I didn't expect to read on TKP today. Not sure why I'm surprised, given the thread, current events, and society in general, but surprised I am. WTF is wrong with people...

This is not new.
Variations of this was used decades ago against military men.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

Maybe?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Do you really want them answered though?

Oh man, I don't think I want to hear the answers though.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

Confirms a lot of the rumors and theories floating around.

What rumors and theories?

Catfishing, not first encounter, JS using social media accounts under the name Angie Reeves to solicit these encounters, beaten up after realizing it was a man, etc. Basically everything in those tweets from Andy Bitter had been floating around reddit and various VT social media/forums.

I can't remember where I saw someone bring it up, but this year Virginia became the 12th state to ban the "gay/trans" panic defense - which was a technicality that had been used in the events like the Matthew Shepard case. Unfortunately, according to the Virginia Legislative Database, like most other laws signed in 2021, doesn't go into effect until next month. [Joe - feel free to delete this if it gets too political and shit, but I think it's unfortunately relevant to the case at hand now.]

Based on all the unconfirmed social media rumors and now these details from court - this has the potential to be another ugly and tragic saga in Blacksburg. I love Blacksburg, and I love Virginia Tech - but it would be great if we didn't become a media spectacle and tragedy every four years... and I'm almost positive that's what this case is going to become.

The best hope for all involved feels like a plea deal - Etute admitted to cops he beat this man to death. Plea deal gives him a lighter sentence and doesn't drag all of this through the public mud.

Nah, with Turk as a lawyer and the gay panic defense still in play, Isi's best hope is to take it to trial.

So sexual assault doesn't count?

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

Just saying this as a statistic, not as any form of indictment or criticism.

Young POC are far less likely to report sexual assault and, possibly, may not even recognize sexual assault as a form of assault, even in obvious cases like this.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Broke every bone in his face and was missing some teeth.

Yikes...

That right there, if what Bitter is reporting is true, is indeed murder. The victim may indeed have been a predator of some ilk, but that doesn't matter one bit for Etute at this point. If the report is true, Etute has admitted that he beat a man to death. Even if Smith was a predator, Etute doesn't get to be judge, jury, and executioner and not be held accountable because he lost his cool.

I saw someone else hoping for Etute to plead out for the sake of heading off the media circus over this. I agree.

I hope if the Blacksburg PD continues to investigate Smith, it's compartmentalized from the University and football program. Unfortunately, I have a feeling Smith got away with what he did because of some shortcoming, connection, or cover from someone in the Town as he was a known mover and shaker to the business community. A guy like this operating is gonna be a bad look for potential students and parents looking for a safe environment for their kids to go to college - they want to know local law enforcement will stop people from spiking drinks and preying on students sexually, but that doesn't appear to have hit the radar until the predator turned up dead.

This is just bad all the way around.

Yeah, I've been waiting for the facts to come out about this case and this is actually sickening. For all the talk about how quickly he was charged with murder - it's pretty clear that is what happened. I'm not seeing a path where he convinces a jury of his peers this was anything other than that, without some kind of technicality playing out in his favor.

Honestly, I feel a little sick to my stomach reading all this and, forget football, I'm worried about the reputation this is going to give the school. Yes, I know this could happen anywhere (and looking at all the other major sexual assault cases, it has, does, and will continue to) - but this one feels so particularly notable that it might actually stick in the consciousness of people for a while.

I'm worried about the reputation this is going to give the school

We have one person who's life is over and another person who's life is possibly ruined due to a quick and emotional reaction to being deceived and violated (and possibly sexually assaulted by not consenting with Jerry on April 10?). Their families are suffering right now, and those are the people we should be worrying about. Not reputation.

Yeah, I think I may have been inarticulate in how I phrased it, but that is what I meant. I have family members who are survivors of sexual assault and rape and so this has been a hard thing to articulate. So what I meant was more how people feel safe in a community, especially one that they previously felt was safe.

I've been with someone at their trial that they were victim to and seen them tell their story to prosecutors - and I've seen how they've felt hearing about this case. It's gutwrenching. I don't think that explains it well enough but that is the perspective I'm trying to come from.

The reputation of VT is the last thing I am worried about here. In fact, I'm not worried about it at all.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

Amen.

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

I hope if the Blacksburg PD continues to investigate Smith, it's compartmentalized from the University and football program. Unfortunately, I have a feeling Smith got away with what he did because of some shortcoming, connection, or cover from someone in the Town as he was a known mover and shaker to the business community. A guy like this operating is gonna be a bad look for potential students and parents looking for a safe environment for their kids to go to college - they want to know local law enforcement will stop people from spiking drinks and preying on students sexually, but that doesn't appear to have hit the radar until the predator turned up dead.

This is the most important piece of the puzzle for us as a community, fanbase, alumni, etc. Blacksburg PD have been letting a lot go long before this incident. It's been a long time coming, and something VT and Blacksburg PD have to come to some reckoning over.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Maybe I'm being pedantic but given everything around the case I can see Etute being convicted of Voluntary Manslaughter. It's brutal but easy to consider a crime of passion. That's the best he can hope for at this point really.

Where is the intent to kill? And according to him he left thinking the guy was injured, but not necessarily dead. He said the wrong things to the police but seems like with some clarification it is clearly some form of manslaughter and not murder

unfortunately, everything that Bitter is tweeting makes it extremely clear to me how it went from "person of interest" to "charged with second degree murder" so quickly

just reinforces to me just how powerful our right to remain silent is. and just how wise it can be to invoke that

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Isi is a well raised good kid. He was honest with the police. He didn't think about the consequences, b/c at that moment in time, he did what was always taught to him with police: comply. It may not have been smart legally, but he knows he committed a crime, and fessed up.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Invoking a Constitutional right isn't a lack of compliance or what makes a kid "good." Perhaps we differ on opinion there.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

Given the cynical world we live in today, I think most would agree that an honest person it at least somewhat "good". Unfortunately, when it comes to the American judicial system, honest also means naรฏve. He could just as easily have kept his mouth shut and then spun a story that Smith assaulted him, and no one would be able to refute it.

As people have already said:

(1) kudos to the Blacksburg rumor mill for being so accurate
(2) don't talk to police without an attorney for a situation like this...

I'm sorry, but if he did it he did it. I am all for your rights, but if he somehow got off altogether when he was in fact guilty, that feels more like a loophole and a good attorney than it does justice being served.

It works the other way around too, where things are pinned on people who aren't guilty due to something they said without an attorney. Police are allowed to lie to suspects. Having an attorney present is a smart move.

Again, if he did it he did it. I'm aware of how people who didn't do things, can mak e their situations worse. But for someone who did do it, this is the rightful outcome. Not wishing they'd had a lawyer present and not owned up to what they'd done. .

Rightful implies rights.

He has a right to a lawyer. Unfortunately people do not know they have that right and should exercise it at every instance when dealing with police. Even if you have committed a crime, you have that right.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I think he would have to consent to his miranda rights before any confession would be admissible. So either he waived his right or it wont end up in court as a confession. Lawyers, correct me if I am wrong.

Edit: assuming Isi didn't know he was dead, could cops mislead him into thinking he was just admitting to assaulting him?

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Yeah I really don't like how any of this is being "reported" since if he did it under duress and without a lawyer present then it might not be admissible. I am also not a lawyer though.

Miranda rights have to be read and "understood." The bar of understanding the rights is super low, like a confession by someone who isn't mentally challenged but doesn't know the true consequences of revealing the information, would qualify as being understood.

So, it is true if he wasn't read his Miranda rights, it could be inadmissible (but depends). But, the police always do read them and will keep pushing until they get a verbal response.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

could he have confessed to the police if he was interviewed as a person of interest prior to being arrested and subsequently mirandized? if he volunteered the information before he was officially "in trouble", how does that work?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

yes, he can. I think that's common (but I don't do any work with criminal law, so anyone with better knowledge can correct me). A person of interest can reveal too much and then becomes arrested. But as soon as a crime is admitted, the police should be immediately giving out the Miranda rights.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

But the admission prior to Miranda rights being read would still be admissible, right? At least that's how I understand it

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

BROAD STROKES:

Miranda prevents the admission of statements that were made during custodial interrogation, without the suspect being advised of and waiving their Miranda rights.

Custodial - a person is viewed to be in custody when a reasonable person in the suspects position would believe that he or she was not free to leave. If a reasonable person believed that they were not free to leave, they are 'in custody'.

Interrogation - any words or actions on the part of the police that the police should know are reasonably likely to elicit an incriminating response.

If the suspect is in custody and they are interrogating him, the confession is only valid if he is first advised and knowingly waives his right to remain silent.

So if somebody isn't in custody, they don't have to advise him of his Miranda rights; the statement is still admissible. If somebody is in custody they may still waive their Miranda rights and choose to make a statement; which will again be admissible.

There is some nuance, but I would be SHOCKED if they did not advise him of Miranda before this confession. On a murder case that's standard practice, and the failure to do so would be some class a rinky dink mickey mouse shit by the cops.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

class a rinky dink mickey mouse shit by the cops.

Well, from what I've been hearing about the BBurg PD over the past few days...

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

this is a fair take.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

assuming Isi didn't know he was dead, could cops mislead him into thinking he was just admitting to assaulting him?

That's definitely within bounds of police interrogation. They are allowed to lie and/or mislead.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

Police should be under oath at all times imo

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

how does that work with undercover investigations

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Yeah obviously a few major exceptions but when someone has been arrested they definitely should be obligated to tell the truth

Should the people who have done the arresting (the cops) also be obligated to tell the truth?

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

I meant they as the copsp

I misunderstood. We agree.

If only that was actually the law...

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

I hadn't considered that, but I guess I would say I don't think there's a place for them imo.

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be responsible for their actions. What I'm saying is that the prosecutor, who is a lawyer, and police, who are trained in interrogation techniques, are the ones questioning and charging you. Since most people don't have extensive legal experience, all the power is on that side. Your lawyer is there to make sure you're treated according to the law and to bridge that power dynamic a bit.

Think of it this way.

He likely did do something that warrants punishment. But because he spoke to police without a lawyer, he's put himself in a position to where he might overly charged and punished. Essentially, he can talk himself into extra and/or more severe charges than are actually warranted. By having a lawyer present, he can assure that his rights are protected adequately and the proper amount of justice can be had. Rights are just that, rights. They have to be respected whether a person is innocent or guilty no matter the crime. Police and prosecutors don't give a fuck. They are not acting in your best interest in any of these situations ranging from murder all the way the down to traffic violations when they start badgering you about what you might have in your vehicle's locked compartments even though you got pulled over for an improper lane change.

This is gonna get too political for this board if I keep going but the point is do NOT talk to the police if they start questioning you about ANYTHING that remotely sounds like they are fishing for a crime. Innocent, guilty, it doesn't matter. Do NOT talk. Invoke your rights to remain silent and to have an attorney present.

All that's fine and dandy but if he did do it and he's being honest could the courts look at it more favorably in the long run instead of simply keeping shut lips and fighting it the whole way? I really don't see why he shouldn't be honest here if he's willing, whether you like it or not a crimes been committed and he's going to pay one way or another what's so bad about being up front?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Being up front about anything with the CJ system does not benefit you. Especially for a charge like this. There is also more evidence that could make this into a more serious charge or one the state is willing to plea out.

The cops doing the investigation aren't there to help someone take responsibility for their actions and receive leniency from the Court. They're there to make their case as tight and slam dunk as possible before it goes to the DA. Countless people in this country have paid/are paying the ultimate price through either life without parole or death sentences because they were 'honest' and 'up front' with the cops about what happened.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

But if he killed someone regardless and confessed I dont see why people are so against being honest? He committed a very very serious crime baited or not and maybe its my wiring but I really dont see it. Could the judge/jury not maybe be more lenient if he is more open and not as resistant? Just thoughts I'm wondering on is all. Its the officers job to get the truth if they can get it without a mind numbing year long trial where the truth gets hidden and never revealed how is that fair in any sense?

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

All of the empirical evidence I have seen suggests that if the defendant talks it most likely will not help their case at any point in the legal process- arrest to sentencing. Just let the lawyer talk. Aside from all of that though the evidence usually is what speaks the loudest. This day in age with technology, i.e., its use in this case will surely shed a lot of light on what all occurred.

Honesty may get you out of a speeding ticket (speeding to work as a nurse, picking up kids, etc) but it isn't going far in a murder trial.

I see the point I just think murder is murder, its not getting out of a speeding ticket its manslaughter which if they can get a confession I see nothing wrong there. You cant kill someone for any reason without punishment and its my biggest pet peeve, my wife works public defense in her firm and the fact that these cases tend to get dragged out for so long and so many get tossed and won by simply delaying and trying to force police into doing the impossible even though they are guilty as hell is one reason I think honesty isnt such a bad thing.

I feel bad for him sure, this story is now all over the place and its not a good thing for him but simply put murder is never the answer and regardless of what the deceased did he deserved a trial all the same as Isi does. No real point in going on about it I'm old school sorry to ramble a bit just trying to explain a different point of view.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

murder is murder, its not getting out of a speeding ticket its manslaughter

This is a point worth making. Right or wrong the charges for murder and manslaughter are potentially very different. Him talking to the police without a lawyer present could very much be the difference in being found guilty of murder vs being guilty of manslaughter.

(add if applicable) /s

Your point is good and I get that I just think the fact that what was said by him and the coroners report tell me this wasnt an accidental over powering like has happened in the past which makes this a bit hard to argue for a lesser charge. Only thing he could avoid would be the pre-meditated part but his actions by his account and the investigations are at least to me seem pretty severe.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

You cant kill someone for any reason without punishment

Sure you can. It's called self defense.

Sure self defense could be an argument but looking at the victim against Etute I'm going to say that wasnt the case. And unless there is another witness it would be very hard to argue this even in court. Etute is not judge, jury and executioner, whether the allegations against Smith are true it wasnt his place to make judgement. Laws exist to deter actions like these and unfortunately theres a large penatly to pay for taking someones life whether its fair, just, or not just its a serious matter.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

My response was not in the context of this case, only a rebuttal of a seemingly blanket statement that you can't kill someone for any reason.

Agree that in this particular instance that self defense is unlikely

All good you made a fair point just thought I'd try and explain where my heads at is all.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

You don't have to be a witness against yourself. Don't help them lock you up.

If litigation in this thing goes anywhere at all, Jimmy Turk is going to move to suppress that statement and keep a jury from hearing it. Why do you think that is?

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

Put it this way. Suppose he invokes his fifth amendment right and says nothing. The camera footage shows him going in, coming out, and that's it. Assume the text messages showing the "catfishing" are introduced into evidence. We don't have his side of the story because he lawyered up. We don't have statements about 5 punches, kicks, blood on flops, gurgling sounds, or the lack of any attempted assault. We don't have Jerry's side of the story because he's dead. You think they're still charging murder 2? No way. He is charged with murder 2 because of his statements given without a lawyer present, and because those statements are the only evidence as to what happened during the actual interaction. Without the incriminating statements, the state has a very difficult time with the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt on murder 2. I would submit they still do, but no comparison to the difficulty they would have without the extremely incriminating statements.

"That's it guys. Let's get out of here. That cold drink's waitin' on us, let's go." - Mike Young after win no. 300.

I'm fixing to toe a line but... It is easy for me, as a white male in 2021, to say "remain silent and do not talk to police without a lawyer."

However, anecdotally, not everyone in today's world may feel safe approaching a similar situation in a similar manner. Some individuals may be taught to comply with everything in order to protect themselves. Most individuals at age ~18 would be unlikely to have the presence of mind to calmly discern what they should do in a situation as disturbing as this one seems to be. Thoughts to think about.

You're point is completely understandable and I agree with it.

Unfortunately, all he needed to do is keep repeating, I would like to speak to a lawyer and nothing else. There's no point in making the cop's job easier, when they're working on a case against you.

I'm fixing to toe a line but... It is easy for me, as a white male in 2021, to say "remain silent and do not talk to police without a lawyer."

That's the key distinction here. With what's getting talked about in the news, an 18-year-old black male in his situation could feel like his life is in jeopardy if he doesn't 100% comply with the police.

Don't want to turn this conversation in a different direction, but it's very easy to say "I would invoke my fifth amendment rights if I was in that situation" as a white male and have no fear of getting murdered by law enforcement if you say nothing.

Even just being removed from the situation it's easier to say it. Stressful situations cause people to freak out and not act rationally

What's the rush to fess up? If you have a good attorney and talk to him/her first, you can be treated fairly and more easily plead guilty to lesser charges.

Classic youtube video "Don't talk to the police" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
Watch 9:30-11:00 for this specific point.

It's more of a loophole that statements can be used as evidence when the accused made them without a lawyer present.

The state's job should be hard.

The victims family would disagree

Not saying he should have been killed, but I gotta wonder what the victim's family is thinking about their loved one being a predator/creep.

I agree he should not have been killed. I also see how what happened would lead to anger on the part of Isi.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

I don't understand the mentality that not owning up to your mistakes is the goal that should be encouraged here. Most crime is solved through confessions. Most criminals are caught through confessions. Not DNA. Not eyewitnesses. Not CSI stuff - sorry to disappoint. It's also difficult to prove many crimes beyond a reasonable doubt without confessions.

I'm not saying that 2 wrongs make a right or that owning up to mistakes is bad. My only comment is I wonder what the victim's family thinks about their relative being a predator.

It's more of a 'the cops have all the power and can wear people down to force false confessions through torture' thing. The original purpose was to prevent law enforcement from being able to just torture confessions out of people to make their jobs easier. The state's job should be hard, because it makes it more likely that 'justice' will be served instead of a suspect simply being worn down and agreeing with the cop.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

That's....not what happened here.

It doesn't matter. Even people who did something criminal should not speak to police until they speak to an attorney. They might get overcharged or face a harsher sentence then they would have otherwise faced.

People who make mistakes have rights too. Just because they aren't perfect, doesn't mean they should face the worst possible consequences. Sometimes people get railroaded into overly harsh consequences because they spoke up before lawyering up.

Name one reason why Isi should have spoken to the police before speaking to an attorney.

Name one reason why Isi should have spoken to the police before speaking to an attorney.

I won't answer this cause I don't want to derail this thread, but it was implied in a post above. Please consider current events and the people involved.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

My guess is Turk will try and cut a deal on involuntary manslaughter. That feels like it might be the best possible outcome for Etute at this point. I don't see him getting acquitted at this point, he is definitely going to have to do some time behind bars for this.

For any of the legal scholars here, if Etute would've left the apartment after finding out it was a man (without beating him) could any charges been brought against Jerry Smith?

Considering Jerry was being protected by someone from other allegations, I don't think so....unfortunately, but a high profile victim like a VT football player could have made for at least a broader investigation

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Due to the perceived embarrassment for being cat fished, I doubt he would've come forward in the first place. Unfortunately, it's not unexpected that he took it into his own hands.

If he didn't consent with Jerry, isn't that some type of sexual assault? If not, it should be imo

I guess I have to drink on this one, seeing as how according to the timestamp you beat me to this point (and my post below) by about 50 seconds.

โ€œAlso, a microwave has never danced it's ass off to Jackie Wilson.โ€ - AssPocketFullOWhiskey

Agreed that it should be and if he was a girl, would likely be in place, but because it was a man and a football player, I doubt anything would have come to it.

Interestingly, part of the reason why its rarely investigated or prosecuted is because of the perception that men are strong enough to fend off the assault. Which is the exact scenario that supposedly played out here.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how Jerry assaulted him. Etute matched with 'Angie' on tinder, went over there, found out she was actually Jerry, left (without being harrassed, based on my understanding of Bitter's tweet), then came back and murdered Jerry. Not sure how Etute was sexually harrassed?

EDIT: Just saw the reddit rumors... oooff

Twitter me

Based on the bitter tweets there was an earlier encounter between the two

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

That's not what they are saying happened - the first encounter I believe he didn't realize it was a man. The second encounter he found it it was a man and then freaked out.

Again, probably a question for the more legal-minded on the forum here, but, technically, could Jerry have been charged with some type of sexual assault after that first meeting between the two...? After all, Isi's consent was only to a sexual act with a woman whom he perceived to be 'Angie', not a man named Jerry Smith.

I could be totally wrong about all this, but, still - 'catfishing' someone into consent with an entirely different, fictional person rather than who you really are 'feels' like it has to be assault, at least to me.

โ€œAlso, a microwave has never danced it's ass off to Jackie Wilson.โ€ - AssPocketFullOWhiskey

No JD but I do have PhD in Criminology... If so, it would be asked in court whether a reasonable person would have thought Smith was indeed a female. Based on the rumours it does not seem likely that any reasonable person would have believed so.

Does that PhD make you an expert criminal or an expert at catching them?

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Both I guess. In reality, my research has nothing to do with catching criminals. Although a former advisor of mine was a special agent for the VSP and advisor to the FBI who specialized in sexual offenders. This case would definitely fall under his purview. I may need to give him a call...

As a reminder, you have the right to remain silent. You should exercise that right. I tell people that talking to the police is going to result in one of three things happening:

1. you're going to get in trouble.
2. someone else is going to get in trouble.
3. you and someone else are both going to get in trouble.

Obviously there is some nuance there and it's not 100% of the time, but it's a good rule. Especially given his confession, he has to know that there's going to be an investigation and that he's not dealing with a #2 scenario. It sounds like it would have been a tough case without the confession, but laying it out like that for the cops takes away 'maybe it was self defense' and puts him solely into 'the mercy of the prosecution/court' for potential plea negotiations.

Given the significant flames starting to appear around the smoke that is the Smith rumors, it's very sad that both lives had to be destroyed by this.

Don't interpret this as some kind of 'he got what he deserved,' but I also think that this was 100% a foreseeable outcome of the catfish game that Smith was playing.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

Great advice. I would also add that you should also request to have a lawyer present for any further questioning. Invoking the right to remain silent means you can uninvoke that right anytime you begin speak up and does not prevent the police from further questioning and interrogation. Invoking the right to have a lawyer present does prevent the police from further questioning and interrogation without a lawyer present.

๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ ๐Ÿฆƒ

100% concur.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

Based on the Bitter tweets, IMO the best possible outcome for the defendant is a plea deal for voluntary manslaughter. Those statements to the police are highly incriminating, and this was in no way defensible as self-defense. A lot hinges on the intent of the defendant if this was the second encounter - if he had no intention of violence until the moment he discovered the other person was a male, you can argue he snapped and beat the victim to death in a fit of rage (voluntary manslaughter). However if he had suspicions and wanted to confirm them, and if so intended to do harm, the CA could likely argue there was malice aforethought and sustain the murder 2 charge. You have the right to defend yourself from assault, but no one gives you the right to be judge, jury, and executioner.

Ugly and horrible situation all around in this one for everyone.

Am I the only one reading that Etute may have gone to the apt for revenge? If so, that's clearly 2nd degree right?

I guess if he had learned of Smith's true identity prior to going there the second time, that might be tough to prove

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

That would be first degree murder.

Would probably be difficult to prove murder 1 because of the different degrees of intent and malice. It would have to be proven to be a willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing. Murder 2 differs in that the defendant could have intended to go cause serious bodily harm but not necessarily intended to kill. Voluntary manslaughter involves a heat of the moment killing rather than any malice aforethought. Would be a pretty steep burden for the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt he went there with the deliberate intention of killing the victim.

Premeditation need only be for an instant before the murder. You don't need a detailed plan to commit murder to be convicted of first degree murder.

Is Epperly still the precedent in VA? Basically does intent still equate premeditation. VA law is the murkiest.

Murder 2 differs in that the defendant could have intended to go cause serious bodily harm but not necessarily intended to kill.

2nd degree murder is what he was charged with, correct? The quote above, the charge, and the timeline seem eerily consistent.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Murder 1 would be going there with the intent to kill him right?

If he went with the intent to beat his ass, but not kill him, that would still be 2, no?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

That is my thought....but tis all conjecture.

Not necessarily.

If you can prove intent that it would bump it to a murder One

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Initial reporting indicates he did not find out until he went to the apt. on 5/31... but, with this being a supposed catfishing scenario, you'd think that all devices (phones, comps, etc) are going to be reviewed from both parties. That may or may not reveal whether Etute knew prior to going to the apt. There's going to be a lot more information forthcoming I'd assume. I think your question is one that is dependent on the evidence yet to be seen.

Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo.

#JustinTime

Andy Bitter mentioned that Etute didn't call the police to report what happened.

If he did, and Jerry still passed, legally would anything be different? I would assume not, but just wonder why that was even mentioned and what I may be missing. From the first reports, I just assumed the police weren't notified until the family requested a wellness check.

Has anyone ever called the police after beating someone up?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

That was my thought too. Why even mention it unless he did call them?

If it's a for real self defense situation; you're much better off calling the law, getting EMS there, and being as brief and honest about what happened as possible. Point out where particular pieces of evidence and who the relevant witnesses are. Then ask for a lawyer.

(I fully recognize that this appears contradictory to what I have said upthread. It's a complicated situation).

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

It helps appear innocent if you seek out police and it lets you vaguely control the narrative with broad strokes, then you let your lawyer color it in

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Removed - read more comments below and realized I was just behind in the details.

has anyone ever called the police after beating someone unconscious gurgling in their own blood?

I never really got into many skirmishes, only a handful, but at 18 years old, I don't honestly know if I would have had the wherewithal to realize he might be dying or not, given what all was likely going through his mind at the moment

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

yes
Why do you ask?

This is going to be great for the ACC.

I read that inclusion as an extension of the information about how Isi heard the victim gurgling. The language used is clearly a description of blood in the throat and trouble breathing. It seems as the DA was already damming Isi for not doing what should have been done in the situation, I.e., call the police.

Short version- it would suggest Etute wasn't acting maliciously if he called the police.

What Andy's tweets did not make clear, and probably because the attorney did not mention this part to Andy, is that the police may have gone to question/arrest Isi, and they simply asked "what happened at Jerry Smith's apartment, we know you were there." Isi may have told them about the encounter before they even told him that Jerry was found dead.

Which brings us back to point a) NEVER talk to cops.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

My advice when clients/prospective clients ask about talking to the police is generally:

1) If you have any interest in fighting the case, don't do it;
2) If you decide you can't fight and want to talk, make sure you tell them everything, because once you start talking, your only option is to fully cooperate.

There are some situations where I've leveraged my client's cooperation into a favorable outcome. Usually there's either a co-defendant that the prosecution hates more than my client, or there's stolen property that's recovered because my client told them where to look. There's far more situations where my client has talked themselves into a conviction.

He's not lying. If Isi was not a male, 6'3" and 205 (in HS, not sure what he is now), and Smith at 6'2" and 125 lb we'd likely being hearing this reported in a very different context.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

IMO a significant percentage of 18 year old males would have reacted the same way if they were in that position. Not necessarily the majority or anything, just a very real nonzero percentage. For better or for worse, right or wrong, that's what I think. They would beat up the guy. Now, most of them are not big and strong football players so they might not have killed him. I'm not sure how differently the criminal justice system would see it if Etute was smaller and Smith ended up surviving.

The difference between this scenario and what (seemingly) happened is....in my read....Etute went over there with the intent to kick the shit out of the guy. This implies ACTIVE intent which is a crime. The above is merely a strawman and doesn't even equate to the situation at hand.

I think that tweet was more in response to some people on Twitter saying that Etute was not raped/assaulted in their first encounter because he agreed to meeting up with "Angie" for sex and should have realized it was a man and it's his fault for not knowing Angie was not Angie.

From Bitter

Etute went back for another meeting at Jerry Smith's apartment on May 31. It was then that he discovered Smith was a man

That doesn't translate to me as he went with the intent to kick his ass

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Exactly - the reading that he went there with intent is simply not what is said. He was fooled the first time - judge how you like, but that's what is being said. The second time he went there for a second encounter and at some point realized what was happening and likely (this is my speculation) became enraged due to the fact an encounter already happened so he likely felt tricked and that escalated the issue vs a scenario where an encounter was planned but had only started or had not even started at all.

Everyone is a victim now.

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. ๐ŸŽฃ

In this case, yes.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Uhh got something you need to tell us buddy?

Vroom Vroom

This looks like the Red Carpet Inn in Blacksburg

#MakeVTFootballFunAgain

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

My big question is who the other 2 guys in the video are? One of them is wearing vt sweatpants.

two other freshmen football players, so far unidentified and not charged with any crimes

This part is interesting and worrisome. Earlier reports had them driving Isi and dropping him off, which is clearly different than being right outside the door.

What they knew about what was going to happen, what they knew about what did happen, and what they did about the information they had will all be relevant.

I suspect none of the 3 went to that apartment thinking they would leave with Smith dying, but after seeing them in the hallway, it seems highly unlikely that there won't be some charge of complicity that comes out.

Honestly, I can kind of imagine Smith as Renee having texted Etute to "bring your friends." Etute just happened to go in first.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Per other message boards, it was a "take turns" situation.

And somehow that isn't even close to the weirdest part of this story.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

Bruh HOW did Jerry think he would get away with that / not get caught as been a catfish?!

Although I guess you never know, maybe he pulled the same feat off many times prior...

Perhaps he thought he could use it as blackmail that they had sex with a man if he was found out

It seems like the "Angie" social media accounts had been active for multiple years. Doubtful Isi was his first victim. So if you have been getting away with it for years not hard believe he might have gotten more brazen with it.

Agreed. This was a con that was long standing. He had run this play before. I don't think it's out of the possibilities for a claim of assault (meaning etute claiming assault) to be brought here due to the fact there was a previous encounter under false pretenses.

I'm no expert here, but not sure how that would be different than someone lying about their age, medical conditions etc. like I said I'm not an expert, but I don't think it's a non factor either.

โญโญโญโญโญโญ #YNWA

Fortunately I never had to get into the online dating world as I met my now-wife the old fashioned way (drunk at a bar). However, I would say that it's probably a good rule of thumb to meet your date for the first time in a public place, even for the more hookup friendly sites.

Tragic story all around

Not sure if what was solicited qualifies as a "date". It's more like the evolution of the glory hole.

A few more thoughts after reading the thread:
-I've already said that Etute seems to have committed 2nd degree murder based on Bitter's reported information above AND that Etute reportedly admitted to being there and beating the guy physically. He might have had a chance get it pled down to some variation of manslaughter, still might, but his chances are lower because of the statements he already made.

-Regarding the statements he already reportedly made, this is EXACTLY why even if you are guilty, caught dead to rights, and even feel guilty yourself, you NEVER talk to the cops without a lawyer. With a good lawyer, he'd have a lot better chance of the manslaughter category and be looking at less time as a result.

-Various comments above about being honest with cops, etc. - that's a very idealistic view, and very naive. Those with that view have never had contact with law enforcement in connection to any sort of significant issue before. Cops and law enforcement are not your friends. They aren't evil, but they are there to arrest people and get them charged with crimes. They are trained to do so, they are trained to trip you up in your statements, and they are good at it. Your best bet, even if you're guilty and caught dead to rights, is to say "I want a lawyer". Which Etute, being young and naive obviously didn't know. Turk has his work cut out for him to get this kid pled down to something that will allow Etute out of jail before he's 30.

-Jerry Smith - I repeat this guy was likely getting local cover for his proclivities for one reason or other. I didn't think highly of Blacksburg PD when I was there 20 years ago. Based on the number of complaints and this guy's record, it seems nothing has changed.

-Another thought on Etute - I don't know about you guys, but the story he went there once previously and had an encounter with what he thought was a woman...umm...I think I can tell the difference between a man and a woman. I'm skeptical of this. I won't go into more detail on telling the difference, what they did or did not do...but seriously how can you not figure it out?

-Yet another thought on Etute - even if he was surprised, assaulted, catfished, etc. - my understanding of use of force legal standards is lawful use of force is only lawful up to the point that is necessary to protect yourself or someone else under your protection (such as your kid) from harm. It is also a point that you have to be in reasonable jeopardy. The point that Etute may have been defending himself, I don't think that's going to hold any water at all. He is a 6'3" strong, big, fit young man. He appears to not have been drugged or impaired. AND he had two friends with him. Smith was a very lean 120 something pounds, 40 years old. Etute will be considered to have had the ability to stop Smith pretty easy without resorting to such drastic escalation of violence while defending himself. Self defense isn't going to hold any water at all. To illustrate using an extreme example, if I am out and about and 10 year old kid kicks my shin, I'm justified in stopping it, but not in killing him in response. Same goes for domestic issues - a large strong man is expected to be able to stop an assault from a smaller, weaker woman without bruising her up. If you're bigger and stronger, you're expected to be able to handle the other person without such level of harm as Etute imparted to Smith. It's about reasonable fear for your well being, Etute will not be seen as reasonably fearing for his safety (in a hand to hand only situation) to such an extreme to justify beating Smith the way he did due to the disparity in size, strength, and ability to mete out physical violence.

-This is a case where Etute simply lost his cool. He wasn't scared, he wasn't worried about his well being. He was partaking in something a bit risky to start, got surprised/catfished, lost his cool, and reacted by beating the guy severely and leaving him there with no access to help, and the guy died. He didn't plan on killing him, but he did purposely choose to attack Smith as he lost his cool, and his purposeful actions of choice led to Smith's death. I think that's Murder 2.

-Admittedly - a good lawyer and negotiator might still get it down manslaughter of some nature, especially if he hits on the point of just how much he's gonna publically out Jerry Smith's reputation, record, town connections, and make a stink about it in a case to try to show he was a predator and play on the jury's emotions to make Etute (and all Smith's other alleged victims) more sympathetic and Smith less sympathetic. Such a spectacle could turn extremely poor in the press for local PD, prosecutors, local businessmen, local political types connected to them all. The prosecutor and judge might okay a plea deal to keep all that out of the local news so as not to embarrass the town and all involved.

The case makes me sick. Hopefully every student up there (and everywhere else) is seeing it's a bad idea to go tindering with strangers and even play these games to start with. So much drama could be avoided if more of us would just keep it in our pants.

-Admittedly - a good lawyer and negotiator might still get it down manslaughter of some nature, especially if he hits on the point of just how much he's gonna publically out Jerry Smith's reputation, record, town connections, and make a stink about it in a case to try to show he was a predator and play on the jury's emotions to make Etute (and all Smith's other alleged victims) more sympathetic and Smith less sympathetic. Such a spectacle could turn extremely poor in the press for local PD, prosecutors, local businessmen, local political types connected to them all. The prosecutor and judge might okay a plea deal to keep all that out of the local news so as not to embarrass the town and all involved.

I wonder what would happen if Etute got someone like Al Sharpton involved with the narrative of an old white guy deceiving a young black man to take advantage of him. I could see that causing a huge stink in the press for the local officials.

Oh yeah, this has "sensitive issues" written all over it. People are already trying to accuse Etutue of a hate crime and brutally murdering somebody because they were transgender (i have yet to see anything to even remotely indicate Smith was trans...) or gay.

But as you say, on the flip side, this is a connected middle aged white man who was taking advantage of (and sexually assaulting) young black men (at least in this case it's Etute + maybe 2 teammates).

If this goes to trial, this has the potential to be an absolute shitshow.

"Even if you are guilty, caught dead to rights"

I think what people are forgetting here is that there are 2 sides to EVERY crime. If someone in my family is the victim, I want the SOB punished to the full extent of the law. I don't want the individual clamming up and getting a lawyer before they confess. I don't want them to evade punishment because they were "smart" not to give up their "rights, and somehow manage to get away with it. We should want criminals to confess and pay for their crimes. We should want justice.

I'm not saying there aren't some extenuating circumstances here. This is definitely a weird series of events. Most crime is much simpler - the boyfriend, the husband, the wife, the ex did it, etc. But all of this advocating for the criminal to "be smart" can come at the expense of the victim. There's a balance here.

to the full extent of the law

Due process rights are within that extent. And there's no criminal until AFTER the trial. There's an accused, and it's up to the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they are a criminal. Sorry you don't like the system, but that doesn't make it wrong.

I'm going to sharply disagree.
Once you commit a crime, you are a criminal.
If someone rapes your daughter but never gets caught, it certainly doesn't mean they aren't a rapist.

I know you mean it in strictly legal terms but Hokierick's point was a good one. I hope that appropriate justice is served for any victim of a crime.

Agreed. There's been a lack of common sense and too much overly legalistic thinking on this thread.

Welcome to the internet lol

VB born, class of '14

welcome to the criminal justice system that we have in this country.

Old sigline: I've been cutting back on the drinking.

New Sigline: lol it's football season.

If someone tried to rape your daughter and you beat him to prevent her from being raped, then you leave while he's still alive, are you a murderer?

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

If someone raped my daughter they are not leaving alive.

And you'd be spending the rest of your life in jail

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

Exactly.

FYI 2nd degree murder is 5 to 40 years. Usually people guilty of that do not die in prison

In this case, it's more of a "if someone raped your daughter, then tried to rape her again, and you beat his face in, but left while he was alive" allegory.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Sure

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

If you plow into someone with your car, and they limp and fall and are still breathing when you pull away and they die 45 seconds later, did the tooth fairy kill them?

I wouldn't say you murdered them

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Right, the force of the car you were driving killed them

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Vroom Vroom

I agree with this.
There could be many reasons why they died and not many of them have to do with the car.
Many could have to do with why they were in the road, what they were dying from when they were struck with the car and what happened to them after striking the car.

Not knowing everything that went on before and after the car strike makes the determination here impossible.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

This! I find it hard to believe that Isi received oral sex from someone and didn't know it was a man. Hearing what we have about Jerry Smith, does anyone put it past him to try and extort Isi by outing him as gay? I'm not saying it justifies the end but this whole situation is so bizarre.

Where's the beef?

If you wade through the online community's account of his alias it would seem that it may have been a case of being on the dark or even blindfolded. Don't think of it as a simple online date. Either way though, a lot of things are possible and there is a lot of investigating to still go through to get to the case. I would not be surprised if there is evidence in the home such as photos or recordings either, which is typical of sexual predators.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Bizarre sums it up perfectly. Everyone go and listen to Lola by The Kinks.

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. ๐ŸŽฃ

Regarding self defense..

Smith had every bone in his face broken and was found to be missing teeth during autopsy. Etute admitted to punching him 5 times in the head and kicking him while he was down. He admitted to hearing "bubbling and gurgling" when he left, and needed to wipe blood off his flip flops.

Good luck finding any jury that you can convince that a football player needed that much force against a twig of a man for self defense.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

Don't necessarily need to prove self-defense, and definitely not to a whole jury. Just need to convince a single person that the homicide was justifiable. If I'm Jimmy Turk, I'm trying to empanel at least 5 women, since statistically, one of them is likely a sexual assault survivor, and may be more likely to see the homicide as justified based on the sexual battery allegations against Jerry. Not saying it's right, but that seems like a likely defense approach.

Women of color also experience much higher rates of sexual assault than Caucasians, so a good lawyer will try to empanel at least two of them. However, elderly white women tend to be less supportive of sexual assault allegations, and more aggressive against homicide, especially in the rural South.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Not to mention you have the whole black defendant vs white victim thing, similar to the OJ case

Removing features to get people to sign up for your service is something EA would would do.

Hopefully he was wearing gloves that do not fit...

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
โ€œI served in the United States Navy"

Put this middle-aged (shit, this is the first time I've acknowledged to myself that I am middle aged) white male on the bench and it's a not-guilty from me.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

In which case you should never be put on the bench, having pre-judged the case.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I'm finding that a lot of people are letting their orange and maroon cloud their judgement here.

Etute beat a person to death. Everything that is being said right now, if true, points to him using excessive force well beyond the grounds of self defense. Even if he was catfished, even if he was sexually assaulted, he beat someone to death and fled the scene, and then admitted to it to police.

If what is being reported is true, he is going to prison for a very long time, possibly the remainder of his life. This isn't some vigilante movie where you can choose to end someone's life and get away with it.

And now he's supposedly having hate crime charges rung up on him as well.

"I have a PLAN. You just need to have a little goddamn faith, Whit. I just need. more. MONEY." - Justin van der Linde

edit: thanks for the edit

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I should clarify and say that what I meant was if I were on the jury, and the information that has been revealed in this thread and in other outlets were presented in a factual manner during the trial...it would be a not-guilty from me.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Same. But then I hold a rather rigid view of the Lockean principle of forfeiture when it comes to sexual predators.

I'll also add, I'm not a religious person at all, and I consider myself an LGTBQ ally...but some people are raised to think that homosexuality=hell. Right or wrong, that's what they've grown up to believe. The realization that he got oral from a dude very well could have questioned his entire upbringing

For the record I am atheist, but I would feel sympathy in this type of scenario for a theist who got their world flipped upside down outside of their control

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Justifiable homicide requires proof (in most cases) that the victim's life was in danger. For Etute, he better have indicated that to the police and have witnesses from minute one. "I was fooled he was a man, so I acted in rage and beat him" doesn't seem his life was in danger per his own statements. That's going to be a tough one.

You're keying to much on the self-defense justification (though that is the most common affirmative defense for homicide). I'm not saying it WAS justifiable, all I said was Jimmy has to get a single person to view it as justifiable, which doesn't necessarily mean proving anything on Isi's behalf. Some people would be inclined to think the death of any sexual predator is justifiable.

Full disclosure, as alluded to in another comment, I'm firmly in that line of thinking. I simply don't view killing sexual predators as murder. As such, I will almost certainly never be on a jury in a case like this.

How many punches is acceptable in self defense?

How can police shoot someone 17+ times in fear of their life?
Police shoot until they've 'terminated a threat'

Updog for life!

Probably best to not explore these rabbit holes. It can only end in this thread being shut down.

(add if applicable) /s

I'm not sure why self defense is even being discussed. It sounds pretty straight forward that Etute was never attacked and was a crime of passion. To answer your question though, I think it is largely case and jury specific.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

define "attacked"

Let me clarify. If Etute goes into the apartment and Smith is trying to catfish him again or tells Etute he's going to blackmail him, those are attacks.

Attack/assault doesn't mean altercation, it means threat of force and intimidation.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

That's not imminent physical harm which is the only attack that self defense applies to.

In any scenario you're going to have a really tough time building a defense around self defense when Isi is twice the size of Smith. Pretty safe to say that self defense doesn't apply here at all.

(add if applicable) /s

This. I haven't heard anything to date to indicate self defense is even close to being on the table. That doesn't mean we know everything though. All we have is a summary of a bond hearing.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K