Hi all -- sorry if this has already been shared.
I came across this Richmond Times Dispatch article that sheds some light on why VT never seemed to have success in the 804 recruiting wise.
Article is free (was for me) if you make an account with RTD.
Seems like Fuente never made a real concerted effort to recruit the 804 until it was too late.
https://richmond.com/sports/high-school/why-virginia-techs-justin-fuente...
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For multiple reasons the state has been hard to recruit for the last two staffs. That's why getting a proven recruiting staff is so important m, it's going to take ALOT to change this narrative among coaches and players in the state. Even then no HC or staff is going to lock down the state or make every coach happy by offering their marginal players every year. It's a tough balancing act that the next coach and staff are going to have to walk.
100%
Loren's comment about him probably going OOS if he were in HS now definitely hurt.
Loren is a guy that should be in consideration for the next staff.
Man, no one talks enough about how much pushing out Coach Cav hurt our recruiting. That dude was probably the best recruiter in VT history.
This is so true. Hite was also a big loss. Those two had built a ton of relationships across the state.
Really? I always thought of Hite as our DeMatha connection-don't remember him pulling recruits from too many other schools
He was our known running back guru though. Kinda like how Foster wasn't an ace but coming to play for Foster was a useful pitch
Maybe but he did redshirt RMFW so there's that-none of his RBs did a lot at the next level, either.
That's not necessarily his fault. His runningbacks are some of our greatest school legends
*Redshirted Ryan Williams to let Darren Evans go the fuck off. Hard to fault the guy there.
It was a different time; there was an expectation that players redshirted. A redshirt freshman (much less a true freshman) had yet to win a Heisman; they would be ignored immediately.
Sounds like you're saying that Hite got every ounce of talent out of some players that probably didn't have the natural talent to play in the NFL?
It seems like all of our best backs caught the injury bug. That seems more like bad luck than anything else.
This. Kevin Jones was doing great until the Lisfranc fracture, an injury that can be more or less career ending, particularly for players who rely on quick twitch explosiveness and speed. He had over a 1000 yards rushing one year for those Lions teams that never ran the ball.
Ryan Williams won the starting job at the Cardinals three different times, eventually the knee and shoulder injuries were too much to overcome.
David Wilson was off to a an incredible start, making big, explosive plays from the get go. He had a neck injury that could have put him at risk of paralysis if he continued playing.
Not one of those situations had anything to do with their lack of NFL talent or ability to play the RB position.
Hite was just a cool dude. He had an unspoken vibe. And he having played running back could speak RB. Guys just loved to perform for him, show him what they could do.
It's actually funny that VTs success coincides more with Hite than any other coach
Hite found and trained the RB's that made the engine go. It all started faltering when he retired.
Billy hite was a very good coach for a long time, and tech had been absent of talent at the position until herbert portaled here last year.
True, he was the only coach that predated Beamer.
This is where i see Clawson being a huge liability. I dont know him, so I can't say what he will do but he doesn't talk about his scheme with other coaches. So who ever is hired has to have a plan to win back virginia high school coaches. One really easy way is to talk football, if you're not going to do that then what? Loren has to do what he feels is best for his players, but if he isn't on board with what VT is doing then its going to be a tough sell to other coaches.
It's TSL so take it with a grain of salt, but Chris Coleman said on the podcast that a big name VA coach is a big fan of Clawson because of the relationships he made coaching at Richmond. He sees Clawson as someone who could fix in state recruiting for us.
My fear is that coaching is basically a 2x2 matrix.
- 1) Good coach/good recruiter
- 2) Good coach/bad recruiter
- 3) Bad coach/good recruiter
- 4) Bad coach/bad recruiter
We thought Fuente was a 2, and hoped he could turn into a 1. But in the ACC he proved to be a 4. What is Clawson outside of Wake? No idea. Can a #3 turn around the perception of VT recruiting at a level to overcome suspect coaching? No idea. Can a bad recruiter become a good one? Again, no idea.
Biggest concern in that article was that Ramon Brown isn't signing on early signing day. He can ball.
I'm crossing my fingers and hoping all the VA boys still want to play together, and know the best way to do so is by remaining in our class. I think most of those guys have other good offers, but I don't think there's one spot they could all go to together this late in the cycle, so hopefully those relationships within our class are strong.
Yeah...that was a shot to the gut.
While I suppose that is better than him announcing he is reopening his Recruitment, its certainly not confidence inspiring.
Probably wants to see who the new coach is before making a decision. If I were a parent or prep coach I would encourage anyone who is thinking of VT to not sign on ESD and wait to see how the dust settles here before making a decision.
I don't see that as concerning, or surprising at this point. We just fired our head coach the day before yesterday and he has no clue who the next guy will be. If I was a recruit, at this point in time I wouldn't commit to signing anything until I knew who the new coach was going to be
I think there is some overarching issue Fuente had in building relationships with coaches, players, former players and football staff. This is a huge issue in Power 5 football, because you have to put on different hats depending on who you are dealing with. Relationship building is not just about picking up the phone or making a visit, one has to show commitment and consistency to the partner/external or internal party with which you are working with. If you have problems in making time for it, you have to let those folks know that upfront.
I think Fuente lost the locker room in 2018 after that ODU game and then went soft on the team, resulting in poor development and lack of discipline. He stayed too committed to corny.
Your last paragraph nailed it I believe. Something went reaaaaal haywire that season. The si article and the massive number of departures- I ding k ow exactly what happened, but a badass ceo guru type is able to mitigate disaster in that situation, whereas, for Fuente, it literally was the beginning of the end. We need a ceo who can effectively deal with the unpredictable minds of these kids. It is no easy job.
Galen was Fuente's Tenzing Norgay.
Say what you will about his coaching ability but based on huge numbers of current and former players who still love Fuente it's pretty clear he didn't lose the locker room (whole team) even today.
Or there are players who, like me, stay unnecessarily committed to shitty jobs because the prospect of change is paralyzing.
Dang man, I'm sorry to hear that -- I can relate.
If you think you'll be happier elsewhere, you owe it to yourself to explore your options.
Lots of people change jobs (especially this year), so you aren't alone!
I just changed jobs a month ago -- still have imposter syndrome!
I definitely agree in state recruiting needs to improve but some of the complaints from HS coaches have seemed unwarranted. That is, Alabama, Clemson, Penn State, Ohio State does the same thing and they are fine with it. It's like they are insulted because their kid was a late take or low priority from a "middling program" but no issue if treated the same way by the "big boys."
You mean the coach who wanted his player who only had a few FCS offers at LB to get a Tech offer?
I think there's alot of truth to that.
The issue is VT doesn't have the cache of any of those Programs.
That creates a difficult balancing act that clearly the last 2 staffs have not walked very successfully. The late Beamer years seemed to largely be dominated by a lack of focus/intensity and many comments seem to allude to somewhat of a "Johnny Come Lately" attitude during the Fuente era--there when they wanted a player but otherwise absent and frequently late to the table to start with.
Make the VA coaches feel important but not cater to them to the point where you are expending resources on players that you know aren't fits in a P5 system.
Its not an easy job by any means and I think its extremely important not only that the next HC have a solid Recruiting strategy but that he assembles a Staff that has a focus on Recruting as well. Fu's Staff had too much deadweight in Recruiting to have a realistic chance of success (and JF himself was part of that problem).
" If you win 20 in the show, you can let the fungus grow back and the press'll think you're colorful. Until you win 20 in the show, however, it means you are a slob."- Crash Davis, "Bull Durham"
They ain't wrong. The in-state schools suck donkey noodles right now. Sadly, we need a serious jolt of energy.
Our image sucks. Sure, Clawson got Dortch, and might play for a conference title this season, but will he be able to provide the jolt of energy nationally to change college football's perception of us?
That's why so many fans like Napier or Huff, someone who can be the CEO type, and elevate our expectations and recruiting. It's not so much Clawson will do well at Tech, it's the question of whether he can get us that bolt of energy to get us out of this rut.
Side note, I think Clawson will do well at VT, but he's going to have a few rebuild years before we see results.
I think this is 100% accurate. This season for Clawson at Wake is based on a large group of redshirt seniors/juniors. It's a good philosophy, redshirting almost everybody, if you can get them to agree with it. But it will take a few years for this to bear fruit.
it's easier to get a mid-3* to redshirt than a 4* who is constantly getting recruited to transfer if he does not see the field early and often. I think we should get good enough talent we don't have to take this approach, but we may need to for a few years given what in the cupboard now.
That's a valid thought and concern with Clawson as just in the past 2 years, Jamie Newman and Walker got poached by bigger Programs.
On the other hand, he got Boogie Basham to stay thru his Sr. year even when he would have been a Draft Pick almost certainly as a Jr.
Hard to say definitely how it would play out, but if the thought pross is that he could attract better talent at VT than WF, he would also need to retain that talent in order to develop it. Its something to consider for sure.
Fuente proved you can't just be a P5 and expect better talent to show up and sign. The Dortch debacle is irritating to read thru.
With Clawson, he goes from recruiting against Bowling Green to recruiting against UNC. I'd say he will likely have to recruit harder than he did at WF. And that's before getting to the development stage.
This should be required reading for all candidates looking to fill the head coach position. In fact Whit should have them read the article aloud during the interview to make sure this cannot happen.
Also one more thing: this is an example where money didn't play a factor in poor recruiting. It was bad or slowpoke talent eval and late offers. You can't buy crypto currency at its highest point. You needed to get in on the scam early.
If you hire 1 talent evaluator and they're poor or slow it's a problem. If you hire 10 talent evaluators and 2-3 are poor or slow it doesn't matter as much.
Less money means less leeway to make mistakes. You can paper over a lot of issues by throwing resources at them.