The Case for Justin Fuente: A Retort

Selhini put together a very solid argument for the case of Justin Hamilton replacing Fuente as head coach. I would like to proffer an alternative; the retention of Justin Fuente as head coach. I'm not saying one way or another if I want it to happen, but these are what I'm seeing as the bits of data that would support keeping him.

December 16
As of this posting, the contract buyout for Fuente would be $10,000,000. On December 16, that number drops to $7,500,000. That's a big drop, but as Selhini pointed out, our entire coaching staff budget is under $7,100,000. It would literally cost us more money to fire Fuente that it would to pay the entire staff. I'd feel more comfortable once I see that number reduce again.

Our Rivals
Right now, I think most Hokies would agree our best rivals are UVA, UNC, and Miami. Against UVA, Fuente is 4-1. Against UNC, he's 5-1. Against Miami, he's 2-3. I may be crazy but 11-5 against our more hated rivals over 6 years ain't bad.

The Hinderance
I believe the biggest hinderance to VT football success is not Justin Fuente. He does have a part in it, but he's not the Ted McGinley on every tv show. Why the Hokie football team seems to be running in neutral is (stop me if you've heard this before) Brad Cornelsen. The offensive philosophy is questionable and stagnant at best and his quarterback development leaves a lot to be desired.

Options
Selhini posits a transition to Hamilton. The future might indicate that would have been a fantastic option, but what other options are there, especially at this point? The list of currently available active head coaches looking for a job are Randy Edsall, Les Miles, and Clay Helton. Two of these three are quality with P5 championships and a national title. But I would prefer to have a coach with less than 25 years' experience and with the price tag those types of coaches will come with. Experience is good, but I would want somebody who is younger, with some experience, and cheaper.

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Comments

I believe the biggest hinderance to VT football success is not Justin Fuente. He does have a part in it, but he's not the Ted McGinley on every tv show. Why the Hokie football team seems to be running in neutral is (stop me if you've heard this before) Brad Cornelsen. The offensive philosophy is questionable and stagnant at best and his quarterback development leaves a lot to be desired

The head coach is the CEO. If there are weaknesses, it is the CEO's job to fix that. Fuente has chosen not to fix it so he is in fact a large part of the problem. If a CEO refused to fire a VP of Sales that got worse each year, I'm quite sure the board would fire his ass. This is no different and pretending that it is different is getting really old. It is year 6 and we have all the data we need.

Edit: that wasn't meant to shit on you, 07Hokie. I'm just really getting tired of excuses. They don't win ball games.

Not giving any excuses. Fu is directly responsible for Cornelsen remaining on staff. If Fu is our Jellicoe, Cornelsen is our Beatty - aggression. The problem I see is that Fu is like Jellicoe in that he may criticize his subordinate in private, but will not get rid of him for his ineffectiveness.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

My take as well. His failing to remove someone that is bad at their job has made him someone who is also bad at his job.

Same thing for Whit

Free Hugh

I think this a whole lot less clear.

First it is believed that Whit was in favor of a change at HC last December, but wasn't able to make the move (for whatever reason).

Second, the AD should be measured on the success of the entire Athletic Department, not just one sport. Whit gets high marks for a number of hires he's made (including Fuente at the time). He also launched the Women's golf team which made the NCAA's in its first few seasons.

Suggesting Whit is bad at his job is a bad take.

Whit said it was his decision so until we hear otherwise you are a conspiracy theorist.

Women's golf is not equal to football. An AD will not be fired for mismanaging softball. They live and die by football and maybe basketball.

Free Hugh

I don't think AD's live and die by football (or basketball if you are a basketball school.) That may be how you want the world to work, but its not accurate.

AD's are fired for mismanaging the whole athletic department or running a department mired in scandal/corruption, not hanging onto a head coach too long.

And while you may discount every other sport, a lot of people don't.

Slightly different. Whit has slightly less power to fire Fuente then Fuente does to fire Cornelson. I think if you could point to a mistake that Whit made, it was that way too early contract extension after Fuente had that expectation smashing first season that turned out to be more luck than anything else.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

Counterpoint:. It's Year 6 with arguably the worst offense we've had under Fuente and we're struggling to beat FCS teams, and he refused to act last offseason when everyone knew the biggest problem with the program was Cornelson

I will not donate to Virginia Tech Athletics as long as Justin Fuente is the head coach of VT Football. Enough is enough.

The only offensive stat that I see we've improved upon since last year is 3rd down conversions.

As of right now:
PPG: down 7.6 ppg
Rush YPG: down 99.3 ypg
Pass YPG: down 9.9 ypg
Total YPG: down 109.2 ypg
Third Downs per game: up 1.3 third downs per game
1st downs: down 2.4 1st downs per game

The only thing saving Cornelsen, in my opinion, is that last year was the best year we've had, statistically, on offense, since 2016.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

The only thing saving Cornelsen, in my opinion, is that last year was the best year we've had, statistically, on offense, since 2016.

He was Fuente's best man and butt buddy and he refuses to fire him because of that.

FTFY

"It's a miracle in Blacksburg, TYROD DID IT MIKEY, TYROD DID IT!"

I'll help you out. Hopefully I can word it a little better.

Corn has been best friends with Fu since forever. Fu brought Corn to Blacksburg to help out his best friend and family, rather than parting ways and disrespecting his best friend by leaving him behind when he got his first P5 HC gig.

And now Fu probably feels like he's stuck with him and doesn't want to send him packing knowing kids and a wife are involved. And Fu also knows he should have brought Darrell Dickey with him along with Corn. I don't know why he didn't.

It's possible Dickey didn't want to be CO-OC with Cornelsen anymore. He's been the sole OC/QB Coach at Texas A&M since 2018.

Jimbo Fisher thought enough of him to not give him a peer. IDK.

That's very possible and probably at least part of the reason Dickey didn't want to come to Blacksburg.

Dickey wanted to go back to Texas. That was his intent, and wasn't going to take a detour through Virginia to do so. Norvell convinced him to stay on his staff, until the right job opened for him. Heard it during a broadcast of an A&M game last year. It's actually not surprising, or requires any significant speculation on our parts.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Wait, year 6? I thought this was only year 2?

No, in 2 years it will be year 2.

This is Year 1. Last Year was Year Zero. In a bold move, Whit tossed Fuente's division title year in the dumpster to buy more time for Fuente.

I would support keeping Fuente on one condition and one condition alone: Cornelsen must go.

I'm also pretty confident that Fuente is never going to fire Cornelsen. I really don't think money is an issue and, to me, it's a vastly overblown hindrance. If VT is serious about football they will find a way to finance Fuente's replacement.

Fuente had a chance to save his career after 2018. By not firing Cornelsen then he essentially blew a massive hole in the side of his own ship. He either knew Cornelsen wasn't pulling his weight but kept him around cuz they're buds or he can't recognize what is ailing this team. Neither is good for a man who wants to be a head coach. He's unfit for the job. Plain and simple.

πŸ”₯β›²

I want public admission from Fuente and Whit that they've been fucking up this situation for years.

Free Hugh

The hidden costs of keeping Fuente* greatly outweigh the cost of the buyout. From a business perspective, Fuente must go.

*I too believe that if Fuente would fire Corn, most fans would give Fuente a couple/few more years to prove his head coaching abilities. However, Fuente doesn't consider that to be an option; therefore, neither can we fans.

#MakeTheMove

#MakeTheMove . . . "Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

When Coach Beamer retired, outgoing offensive coordinator Scott Loefler said he was looking forward to seeing the returning offensive players operate the new system because, under his tutelage, they had started to learn how to play fast, play confident, and know where they were going. Oddly, that next year was our best yet under Fuente and Cornelson.

Its clear to me that Loeffler, despite his flaws, was a good teacher who could coach up his players. While he would often miss the forest for the trees, his passing trees were sophisticated and QBs were taught to go through progressions. When he had good WRs, even Logan Thomas, who was probably greener at the position than HH or QP, was able to develop and progress in Loefler's system.

Cornelson and Fuente have not showed an ability to develop a QB in either the mental or physical aspects of the game. If anything, QBs have regressed over the course of a season and from one season to the next.

Can't agree with this point enough

We Are The Virginia Tech Hokies...And We Play Football!

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Agree but Logan thomas only had one year in Lefty's system as a r-Sr

Here is a story. My Son is a fireman and and shared a firehouse with a VT starting receiver. He was told that Lefty would come up with amazing game plan and the O would always get excited and behind it 100%. Come game day Lefty would would get so revved up he would start to puke and threw the plan out the window; calling arbitrary plays. He would puke throughout game. My thought is total Spaz.

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. 🎣

I think you are conflating stories. We did have an offensive line coach that would do this but not Scott L.

Curt Newsome.

Credit where it's due, Loeffler assembled a hell of a receiving corps and had passing concepts that were light years ahead of FuCorn. Fu really came into a perfect scenario year one with a veteran nucleus of talent, and he did bring in Evans which was a great fit to spark everything. But as we have seen, we aren't getting the same development and coaching under this new staff. Passing game has fallen off a cliff from the Ford/Phillips/Hodges days.

That receiving corps was coached by Burden whom Fuente moved to RB and then fired. Burden has been the best coach at WR we've had in a long time. And now he's at Maryland coaching.... wait for it.... WRs, not RBs. Good job Fuente.

Currently their top 3 WRs have 446, 265 and 201 yards respectively. While VT has 250, 166, 122 yards respectively. Obviously some of that is due to Corn's shittastic playcalling but numbers are numbers in the end.

To be fair, Holmon Wiggins was picked over Burden to coach our WR's. He was then poached by Bama and had a WR win the Heisman. That said, perhaps Burden could've slid back over to WR's coach when Wiggins left. I'd also argue that our QB play would prevent us from having those MD numbers you cited, even if we had Bama's receiving corp.

I'd also argue that our QB playfailure to develop a QB combined with horrid play-calling would prevent us from having those MD numbers you cited, even if we had Bama's receiving corp.

FTFY

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Not to knock Wiggins coaching but I could have coached Devonta Smith to win a Heisman. dude is legit. but yes, after Wiggins left he should have been switched back to WRs.

My first reaction was just you have got to be kidding at this point. But I will wait and see if you get ANY supporting comments. So item by item
December 16 - I have a cancer spreading through my body. I can save 2.5 million by waiting a year to operate. How will I view that money as rigor mortis sets in.
Our rivals - first UVA is like an FCS team not a rival, we should just beat them like a drum every year like this guy from Fancy Gap showed us how to do. So replace UVA with Pitt. Oh crap.
The hinderance - with hamilton bye bye hinderance. Better still, hamilton brings in Kill to set up the offensive staff etc and the problem becomes the solution. With Justin, the Corn anchor just keeps pulling us deeper.
Options - here is an option - another team sees an up and coming defensive coach with the it factor that they can snap up relatively cheap. Then, instead of being up schitt's creek in a canoe without a paddle as we are now, we are up schitt's creek without a canoe or a paddle. Oh please never ever let this happen.
So in summary you have got to be kidding.

Footnote - as I mowed the lawn thinking about our shallow melancholy victory yesterday, I thought back to Jerrod Evans. While I was initially critical of his decision to move on, in retrospect maybe he knew that another year with Corn would be a waste of time (and if the portal had existed, wonder if he would have transferred). Probably never know, but makes me wonder.

The LewDew, Professional Golf Bum

I have two problems with this

1) stop pretending that any team is a cakewalk based on past results. UVA coaches and players have agency. Yes I want every year to be 2016 against them, but that isn't automatic. Outside of Kansas and Vandy, no P5 team should be considered a gimme, especially if your argument is essentially "because I want it to be."

2) this shit:

December 16 - I have a cancer spreading through my body. I can save 2.5 million by waiting a year to operate. How will I view that money as rigor mortis sets in.

It's fucking football. You're not going to die if the team sucks... or worse, is incredibly average. Don't compare it to shit that actually matters.

Hamilton has no chance to bring Kill in as OC. Kill has no ties to JHam that I know of.

Also, UVA is NOT an FCS team despite you wanting it to be so. They are our biggest rival because they are the other P5 school in VA.

Fu has shown that he is sticking by corny . If at the end of the season he is given that ultimatum I guarantee he will not let him go and make Babcock fire him or keep him with his boy corny .

Maybe Whit fires Corny, Fuente rage quits in protest and we get out of the buyout?!

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
β€œI served in the United States Navy"

God bless your sweet soul!!!

If you play it, they will win.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used." -The BoD

Fuente's best move financially is to get fired, take a "break" from coaching and come back as an NFL HC. 🀣

He should have Urban Meyer on speed dial. Which isn't a bad idea given how well Meyer hires assistants. Just saying.

Why can't Whit fire Cornelson? Can someone explain why it is solely up to the coach? Or could Whit tell Fuente that we'd like to retain him, but BC has to be replaced.

You still think Fuente wouldn't let Cornelson go if he claims the decision is being made from above?

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

This has always puzzled me. The only reason I can see that it can't happen is if it's specifically written into Fu's contract that he has sole responsibility for the hiring/firing of football personnel. That said, it seems like a silly line item that Whit should have struck during negotiations.

Do you know of any other examples of ADs firing staff, especially coordinators, (other than like from doing something illegal or harassment violations)? If anything, maybe you see something like what I imagined happened at NC State where the AD basically lets the coach know they're not cutting it and unless they make changes, they're gone soon. I mean, not sure how many of us thought Beamer would do anything with Stinespring given Beamer's loyalty to staff, but he did eventually. But I doubt ADs really ever fire coordinators - like jmecca said above, the HC is the CEO - and in that analogy, I'd call the AD something like the board of directors. They'd can the CEO if their staff isn't pulling their weight and get a new CEO.

Edit: hopefully this didn't come across as snarky - I'm actually curious if anybody knows of an AD firing staff. I'm assuming if it's bad enough that and AD get involved, they go through the HC and give them an ultimatum.

I'm not sure if entirely relevant, but the reasons that the Zach Smith's dirty laundry rubbed off on Urban Meyer was that:

a) Urban wasn't communicating these issues to the proper channels, and

b) he was actually writing glowing performance reviews to further shield him from the University (Seasons in which Courtney contacted the police correlated perfectly with how great Zach looked like he was doing his job).

This would be similar to a Supervisor hiding and shielding a problem employee from a company/HR.

The system Ohio State had in place was designed to discover, remediate, and if necessary punish Zach's behavior. Urban's actions shielded Zach from that entirely.

The purpose of the "independent" "investigation" was to acknowledge enough to warrant a game's suspension, and not enough to recommend firing him. (They determined not to examine his university phone or his text history, as this would have proven what Urban knew and when).

Can we stop referring to Fuente or any head coach as a CEO, He's at best a VP/Division head. He has no real financial obligations, other than he's probably given a budget. No one is reporting to him revenue from games, or letting him negotiate appeal deals. If he wants to hire some one in a new role he has to ask. OCs and DCs are more like directors, position coaches managers. So your really missing either the Organizational Unit layer (which is more like what a HC is, OU head), or you count athletics as the division, and it works out that wit is the VP.

Virginia Tech Athletic Department

I would agree that the CEO of this organization doesn't require a "Control-F" maneuver to find; he'd be right there at the top.

Edit: That would be like calling Ted Lasso the "CEO" of AFC Richmond! And they only have one sport.

CEO, Director, VP, Head Coach, etc. - Does it really matter what the title is? He is paid to win football games. He's not very good at that. #makethemove

I found this pdf, which is supposedly Fuente's original VT contract.

Under DUTIES:
-Recruits, directs, supervises, and evaluates the assistant football coaching staff and all related football support personnel.
-Recommends selection, compensation, discipline, and discharge of assistant football coaches.

Since the word is "recommends", I take that to mean that the AD could still override the coach on any decisions regarding the assistants.

I'd also be curious if that's standard football coach language maybe it's technically the AD that does all the hiring and firing based on the coaches say?

The important part is Article IV:
"Fuente shall have the right to select and retain ... assistant coaches"

So, according Art. IV, that means, it is his right, not the AD's right, to hire and retain Corn. As such, the language of the contract in totality says he does both: "recommends selection" and the "right to select and retain." And I do not see anything in Fuente's contract that gives the AD to override the right to select and retain. For that reason, I doubt the AD can fire Corn based on on-field performance.

That said, I'm sure each individual assistant coach contract has some language giving the AD at minimum the authority to discipline and discharge for "acts unbecoming of the university" but probably for not much more.

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

That's why I hate PDFs that are just image scans. Makes it harder to search for stuff.

But could there be a bargaining chip in there somewhere? Let's say Fuente goes to Whit at the end of the season and asks for more money in his staff budget. Could Whit withhold additional funds if Fuente doesn't make certain staff changes?

Sure. Anything and everything is up for debate in a contract renegotiation. So, if Fuente wanted a larger budget for assistants, Whit could require stipulations for that. Ultimately, (as with any contract) it always comes down to whether the two sides come to an agreement and I don't personally see this type of agreement being reached. (Fuente would probably continue to pay Corn his salary at a lower rate and not agree to firing him to get more money for assistants.)

What I think is more likely (and probably what happened at ND with Kelly) is that Whit can threaten to fire Fuente unless he makes changes on his staff. That is where the AD has the real leverage (except for that outrageous buy-out fee).

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

I believe Dave Braine (think that was our AD in 1992) did just that with Beamer after he went 2-8-1.

I would bet that he can fire him. Most assistants' contracts are for one year, but unless things are a disaster, and maybe we're heading there now, most ADs would prefer to not ruin the relationship with their generally most important employee.

I think this is the reason. Firing through a level poisons a relationship. It's usually not worth it and you might as well just fire the HC.

Regardless of what's in a contract, no HC is going to be interested in a job where the AD pulls rank and fires the HC's staff.

"... I think he played his nuts off. And you can quote me on that shit."

Auburn just fired their WR coach...after a win Saturday.

We put the K in Kwality

This will just upset the VT fans that don't want to always be "cycling" through coaches. You know, like the SEC teams that win most of the time... Apparently we must keep everyone a minimum of a decade so the team/recruiting is not disrupted.

It's putting the cart before the horse to think that ADs firing assistants is what makes the SEC successful. What's happening there is that HCs are willing to tolerate more bullshit if they are coaching at a marquee program.

"... I think he played his nuts off. And you can quote me on that shit."

You never want to go full Auburn

Oh I dunno, 2 National Championship Game appearances and 1 title over the past 10 years. I think I could live with that.

I will not donate to Virginia Tech Athletics as long as Justin Fuente is the head coach of VT Football. Enough is enough.

And that's in the SECW, where they have at least one guaranteed L most years. Imagine what they would have done in the Coastal over that span.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

Whit could make the firing, but that's a huge red flag for future coaching candidates. No one wants to work at a job where their boss can fire someone they hand picked for their team (unless the other positives of the job outweigh this).

Whit is very well respected in the industry, and while I haven't heard this said explicity, many insiders have insinuated that having a boss like Whit Babcock is one of many things that VT a (relatively) attractive job.

Twitter me

while i agree with this, i would love to get chadwell/napier/healy/elliot's take on the current state of our program...they're all probably thinking "man, fuente could have that thing rolling if he would just upgrade his OC" :-)

At the same time, I wanted VT to fire Fuente and hire Elliot and this Clemson offense is arguably worse than VTs with at least double the talent across the board.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

yeah, this is why it's a) really hard to hire a good coach and b) important to hire a guy who has a vision he can sell.

You want to buy low and sell high. Problem is, most ADs fall into the trap of buying high because they want to get the "splash" hire - they want to go the "safe" route and that is why most fail. Playing not to lose is playing to lose. Whit needs to be bold. Whit needs to go after a guy who hasn't made a name for himself yet but has a vision and his hungry to do so. Whit needs to hire a guy who is capable of filling out his staff with great teachers. Whit needs to hire a guy who isn't going to just bring his pals along with him and keep them around despite obvious lack of performance.

πŸ”₯β›²

There's plenty of legitimate reasons to cool on TE as a head coaching candidate, but imo the appeal of hiring him was not bringing the Clemson (still Chad Morris') offense, but TE's experience for the entire rise from 2011 to present. He saw every step of going from mid-tier P5 to annual title contender and watched/participated in creating the culture, program build up, and recruiting as it went along.

I want to offer this data point, but I don't know if it warrants its own thread -- Fuente's VT vs. FCS...

I got to thinking about this while watching the Richmond game and we still had the starters in the game in the 4th quarter. This was supposed to be a tune up game to give starters some rest and get the backups some playing time. But we seem to have problems putting FCS teams away. I went back and checked the play-by-play at Hokiesports.com, and I'm mainly just looking at the QB position, because that's the main one to get swapped out.

2016 - Liberty
VT won 36-13. Jerod Evans played most of the first three quarters. Motley came in with the drive that started at 0:22 in the third when VT was up 33-13.

2017 - Delaware
VT won 27-0. Josh Jackson played the entire game.

2018 - William and Mary
VT won 62-17. All three QBs played.
One interesting note is that Willis came in with 2:51 left in the 2nd when VT up 31-7. Jackson started the 2nd half with one drive, then Willis took over again.

2019 - Furman
VT won 24-17. Willis started the game, and Hooker only came in during the 4th quarter due to an injury to Willis.

2019 - Rhode Island
VT won 34-17. Hooker played the entire game except for the final clock killing drive led by QP.

2021 - Richmond
VT won 21-10. Burmeister played the whole game except for a drive by Kadum and then a few plays by Blumrick for the run package.

With Kadum in the Richmond game, Fuente was probably trying the same strategy he tried with Willis in the second quarter of the W&M game. The main difference being that we were only up by 7 and backed up to our own end zone.

The average margin of victory in those games is 21.6 points. If we take out the W&M game, it's 17. Four of those six games had the starting QB playing basically the entire game. That doesn't quite seem right.

And I really hate to do this, but I took a look at how uva has done against FCS under Bronco:
2016 - lost to Richmond by 17
2017 - beat W&M by 18
2018 - beat Richmond by 29
2019 - beat W&M by 35
2020 - beat Abilene Christian by 40
2021 - beat W&M by 43
Even with a loss, that's still an average margin of victory of 24.6 points. Take out the loss and the average is 33.

Yes, they started even lower than we did, but not only is there notable improvement year over year, but their average margin of victory is better, no matter how you slice it.

Good research!

#MakeTheMove . . . "Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

What that means is that Bronco was lucky to get Bryce Perkins, and has established a decent defense.

Lol wtf you smokin' dude? A lot of your posts lately have been whacky asl. You trolling?

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My comment had two points. Was in response to your comments about Bronco.

The first was that Bronco established a decent defense. Something that Virginia Tech has been lacking until this year.

The second, was that Bronco's bacon on many occasions was saved by Bryce Perkins, who salvaged many plays (and games) single-handedly. He wasn't a great passer, but could think on his feet and dink and dunk with the best of them. He was hard to defend against.

so your takeaway from that entire post is that Bronco has established a defense and had a QB who could win games? Did you even read it because your response doesn't make any sense relative to the post

The point is that Fuente's VT teams have struggled to put FCS teams away and haven't shown any kind of progress or improvement in his 6 years. UVA, on the other hand, started well below VT and has, year-over-year, improved and overtaken VT in terms of performance against FCS teams. It doesn't really matter how UVA has done it - the fact is they have. And they haven't had Bryce Perkins in 2 years so the last two data points for UVA (the best two, in fact) are without him so it's weird that you even bring him into it. Secondly, VT has had two bad defenses in that span (2018 and 2020) but otherwise our defense has been better than UVA's and it's not even close. Especially this year. The argument that UVA's bad defense didn't prevent them from blowing out their FCS opponent but VT's really good defense did prevent us from blowing out ours makes about as much sense as putting ketchup on chocolate ice cream. You are either insane or trolling.

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I have to agree here. The Perkins point is relevant to UVA winning the Coastal. They don't do that without him...

But it is completely irrelevant to the post VTkey was responding to, which was a well researched post about us and UVA's track record against FCS schools under the current coaches. Perkins was gone the last two years and they had a 41.5 average margin of victory.

No, I'm saying that using point differentials in FCS games to compare teams is a stretch to begin with. It's an even bigger stretch if you try to reduce it to one or two dimensions.

The fact is that I agree with you that there are serious questions about Fuente. But you're doing your own argument a disservice if you overstate your case or reject factors that don't support it.

But you're doing your own argument a disservice if you overstate your case or reject factors that don't support it.

Okay, you've completely lost me. I have no idea what you're talking about.

πŸ”₯β›²

That's clear.

Well you could at least try to clear it up a bit. What argument am I making? Do YOU even know that? How am I overstating it? What factors am I "rejecting" because they "don't support" my argument?

πŸ”₯β›²

I mean, if we're gonna bring in Bryce Perkins to an FCS debate....

Both years he played, he got pulled from the game after uva had scored 42 points against their opponents. In 2018 against Richmond, it was the 4th quarter. 2019 vs. W&M was in the 3rd quarter.

VT under Fuente has only put up 42 points against FCS once.

I'm pretty sure that supports my post.

On December 16, that number drops to $7,500,000

If Fuente is gone than it should be by Nov 29. It would be a bad move to wait over 2 weeks to make the move and miss out on a lot of the top candidates to save $2.5M.

If you'd wait until November, you wait until December and save yourself a boatload of money. How many candidates do you think we'd miss on by waiting just over 2 weeks? A new coach most likely isn't going to be able to convince any good players to come to Tech in a short window that late in the recruiting period. Four and five star players don't wait to commit and risk not getting a spot at their school of choice.

Edit: sounds like I misread your concern. I was going off what someone had said last year about the players we might be able to pick up if we fired Fuente earlier than his deadline. My guess is that if Whit was going to fire Fuente, he'd likely have someone else lined up (look how quietly he was able to get Fuente AND have him meet with Foster to ensure he stayed).

Your 2 avatars arguing made me laugh because what else can you do at this point?

I can imagine no more rewarding a career. And any man who may be asked in this century what he did to make his life worthwhile, I think can respond with a good deal of pride and satisfaction:
β€œI served in the United States Navy"

How many candidates do you think we'd miss on by waiting just over 2 weeks?

All of them. Most of the coaching changes happen in that window between Thanksgiving and bowl season. Just check this list from 2019.

Even if we had a handshake deal with someone prior to that date, it'd probably be very difficult to keep that under wraps. And it could possibly lead to some breach of contract issues.

The only reason the buyout date would have worked out for us last year is because the end of the season was delayed. I'd wager that if Fuente was fired after the buyout date, we'd end up with a promotion from within the program.

I'm not sure I'm buying that. It looks like at least 2/3 of that list were hired within a week of the previous coach being fired or resigning. You can't tell me that a lot of those deals weren't already in the works for some time before that. Just because the Baylor job search was noisy doesn't mean that's the way it usually happens. Didn't it come out that Fuente had been in the works for like a month before it was announced and nobody knew anything until it was announced?

I had a few thoughts in that last post, so I'm not sure which one you're not buying.

We'd miss out on most of the options by waiting? There's only six hires on that list that occurred after December 16, and five of them were caused by decisions made in January.

Or the part about keeping the search quiet? That's more about not creating a situation where Fuente could sue for breach of contract or collusion or tampering or something because VT specifically waited to prevent him from collecting a significant amount of money. And what if we're going after a top candidate that would be conspicuously absent from the carousel? I figure no matter what, we're probably paying out that $2.5M in some shape or form, so might as well rip the band-aid off early.

I was referring to the main point that we'd miss all of them. Just because they happened after Dec. 16 doesn't mean that a bunch of those weren't already being brokered by the AD's earlier than that - that's my point. I don't know how long coaching searches take, but I'm sure longer than the 5 or 6 days a lot of the coaching changes on that list happened from the firing or resigning to the announced hiring. And just because there were a lot of changes on that list doesn't mean we would have been interested in any/all of them. I mean, if there was 1 candidate that was by FAR the leader, maybe you sacrifice the bucks, but if it's a two week difference, you wait. If you want to get a head start and want to secure the coach of choice, don't wait until the end of the regular season - you make the change like mid November. Otherwise, wait til December, fire him after the 16th to save the 2.5 mil, and pick up another coach then. Just because there were only a few coaches hired in January doesn't mean that there wouldn't be a coach willing to come to Tech after their bowl game if our HC position was open.

Let's look at it this way. You're a football guy and on Whit's short list of coaching candidates. He's strongly hinted that he would like to hire you on December 17th. But then some other coach gets fired the first week of December and you get an offer from another school. Maybe several. As in, all you have to do is say yes and you have a job right away. Do you give up the sure thing or hold off hoping that Whit's really going to fire Fuente this time?

Don't forget that we have last year's press conference debacle. Plus I'm sure folks in the coaching circle know a lot more about what really happened than we do.

Plus, I'm pretty sure we're still in a position that any coach we want is going to be desired by other schools. Meaning, they're going to be snapped up in that early December stretch.

Depending on the wording in the contract there are ways to remove Fuente as coach and not for him until the 16th of December. Whit is smart enough to figure that out.

Or you can tell the topic candidates you have $2.5 million extra reasons for them for wait.

Cornelson and Fuente seem to blame the lack of offense on "execution", and that Cornelson knows the intricacies of the offense better then anyone, so don't blame him...

Even if Cornelson is a good OC, he is very clearly a below average QB coach. Burmeister is obviously the best we have and has the GRIT this team needs, but his inability to make routine throws this Saturday and being conditioned to be scared of 50/50 balls is a glaring indictment of Corn.

I want VT to succeed under Fuente. I think VT can go 9-3 if VT plays their B+/A- game for the rest of the season, but really doubt we have the depth or coaching to sustain that over the next few months.

Hopefully Burmeister will figure out how to hit open receivers and Corn can instill confidence in him to go for the big plays that this team will need to succeed the rest of the season.

Yes,that's the Hokie Bird riding a camel. Why'd you ask?

Cornelson and Fuente seem to blame the lack of offense on "execution", and that Cornelson knows the intricacies of the offense better then anyone, so don't blame him

Then bring in another OC/QB coach and move Cornelson to an offensive analyst position similar to Tenuda. They could make something up like Corny wanted more time with his family or some shit like that.

My thinking exactly. Besides if Corny is such a great coach, where are all the job offers trying to poach him?

We put the K in Kwality

Now I get it. This is part of his deal with Fuente. The agreement was Corn would never take a job with any other team in return for Coach Fu never firing him.

To be the man you gotta beat the man!

There have been comments before, like in the interview with Hooker and Patterson, where they said that Corny gives them plays they think they can handle. I'd be curious if it's been a case of the coaches not really trusting the QBs and that lack of confidence rubbing off on the players in the form of execution issues.

I see a lot of people pointing to the buyout and the present value of those dollars being a huge hurdle. And it is significant. However, what is the potential long-term cost to the program continuing to let this staff have myriad chances to turn it around and nothing changing? It's year six and Fuente's tired refrain of execution is frustrating to say the least. This program's glory days are getting further and further behind us. We are legitimately on the verge of significant fan apathy and recruits not being able to remember VT being a serious football program. When those fans and interest in the program leave, it's very difficult to get it back.

I think the future of VT football cannot afford to keep this staff beyond this year. Fu will not fire Corny. I think the staff is in over their heads at this point and they can't fix it because they don't know anything other than what they are already doing. It's time to move on.

I think this comment by Fuente (taken from Andy Bitter at the The Athletic) speaks volumes:

"I didn't know when. It's always hard to put timing on those kinds of things because of the flow of the game and all that kind of stuff, but on first down, we run the ball and don't help ourselves, we don't get north and south. And now we're in second-and-long, and Knox is in a tough situation. But that's part of playing quarterback too, is being disciplined enough to go throw the ball away and go live to play the next down. I wish it would have turned out differently for him, but where the ball was should be inconsequential to how he performs."

He is talking about when Kadum went into the game. This sounds like no one knew we were at our own six yard line when we put Kadum in. How is that possible?

Disagree completely. I would think the staff made the decision on the change of possession prior when VT punted that on the following change of possession, Kadum was going in. He was likely prepped to go in. As Fu noted, the starting point of the possession was not a factor. Shanked punt taking over at the 30; into the end zone starting at the 20 or the actual 6 yard line, was unknown when the decision was made.

Go Hokies!!

So they ignored the situation, the context, the flow of the game, all that stuff, and just decided to force him in there anyway. Not that they didn't know, they just didn't care.

For such a conservative-minded offensive coaching staff, that's pretty reckless. Taking the risk that Kadum would do something like, oh I don't know, throw a pick 6...it just doesn't add up for me.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

According to coach speak, you're supposed to respect your opponent regardless of who they are and what level they play at.

Against JMU in 2011, Beamer was all about the "we practice for JMU the same as any opponent" line. In the hottest week of the season, he holds full practices all the way up to gameday in a short week.

I'm not saying that result wasn't due to having a "hangover" game or whatever. But if we were playing a P5 opponent that week, the team absolutely goes light at practice, probably gets a day off the field.

That's all well and good, but what does any of that have to do with forcing Knox Kadum into the game at the wrong time and costing your team 7 points?

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Disrespect of an FCS opponent despite claiming otherwise.

They might have determined that Knox would have played "at some point in the first half" against a P5 opponent, too.

But they're probably paying more attention to what that situation is (and not calling a downfield pass first thing out of our own end zone).

Inconsequential does not mean ignorance. In fact, it implies the exact opposite. It implies that they evaluated the situation and decided that factor (i.e., being on the six yard line) was not of consequence when Kadum went in. And honestly, I think that's worse to consider the situation and still put Kadum in that situation than ignoring the situation.

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

Depends on expectations.

If we wanted to see results, 3-1 is a good start. We could be 4-0. Good. βœ…

If you wanted to see the players play for each other and have heart, and show some grit, they have clearly balled out. Great. βœ…

NFL caliber players? Yep, par for the course with this staff. Great. βœ…

Avoiding losses in games we shouldn't lose? Perfect 2-0, plus 1 against UNC. βœ…

QB growth? No. Serviceable, but play calling and BB3's own execution is hurting. Bad. ❌

Offense find other weapons? Tayvion, Tre and Blackshear are playing great. Holston is finding a rhythm. βœ…

Offensive growth? Same plays as 2016, defenses know what's coming, and players not executing, goes with QB growth. ❌

Defensive growth? Fuck yeah. βœ…

Front 7 growth? Yes, and that Kendricks and Pollard put in the work to keep Williams from starting is an accomplishment unto itself. βœ…

Off field issues? Etute situation was out in left field, and I doubt any coach would have handled it as well as Fuente has. In the middle of a big recruiting week, making the coaches available to the players, showing support for the locker room when someone close to them failed them so badly. Saying the right things publicly afterwards, this was A+ response. He's learned a few lessons from the bad locker room in 2018. βœ…

Recruiting? Moving the needle back into the Top 25. Very Beamer-esque classes between 21 and current 22. Made moves to get more former players involved in recruiting. I like the results so far. βœ…

Offensive issues are hampered by additional injuries. I can't blame a coach for in-game injuries.

That's a lot of good. The bad has cost us one game. If we can clean up the execution on even half the critical plays in a game, this team could be really special. We got a bye week, and then Notre Dame in primetime on ACCN.

We're 1-0 in ACC play, and control our destiny to Charlotte.

I'd rather this fan base take a deep breathe, and get behind this team, instead of lament on all the bad. You don't like good results with decent coaching? Wait til we're in a rebuild, and have to watch bad results with good coaching.

We got lucky to see Fuente start the post-Beamer era with 10 and 9 wins with help from veteran leaders in the locker room. We didn't have to see piss poor results until a bad locker room and injuries shook up 2018. 2019 was a solid 8 win bounce back. Fuente has proven his teams can overcome adversity. The 4/5 games on the road to close out the season will be his proving ground.

So you can sit at home, and complain all you want about firing coaches, and day dreaming of Gus Malzahn walking into your dorm with 4 hookers, and a pound of blow. Or, you can put your orange and maroon shades on, and pull for this team. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season. Let's fucking go.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Fuente has proven his teams can overcome adversity

Maybe off the field. They've folded like a paper napkin in the face of adversity in multiple seasons on the field.

To the rest of it, again, we've been here before. The past three seasons before this one, with the bulk of the conference slate still to come I've gone 'eh we could run the table in the Coastal.' Most of those years, we wind up losing like 4 of those games for whatever reason, and the way 2019 ended put a significant damper on the rest of that year for me. I'm not falling for it again, and sorry but an 11 point win over Richmond is about 20 or 30 points too close. Gonna need to see fewer than 3 or 4 losses in the Coastal to be satisfied, as sad as I am to even be putting that qualifier on things.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

We are in the bottom half of the ACC in pretty much every offensive stat right now. Our Red Zone scoring, at least as of the start of the game last week, was 3rd worst, nationally.

I don't care how many feel good stories the coaches have. These are not acceptable results in Year 6 of a coaching staff that was hired because of their offensive ingenuity.

I will not donate to Virginia Tech Athletics as long as Justin Fuente is the head coach of VT Football. Enough is enough.

I have just stopped trying to understand how certain folks around here can't (or won't?) understand this basic logic

πŸ”₯β›²

I get the sense that a lot of people in here would be really bad managers who are willing to allow terrible employees to stick around for way too long, to the detriment of the overall team, eventually leading to your good employees to find work elsewhere.

I will not donate to Virginia Tech Athletics as long as Justin Fuente is the head coach of VT Football. Enough is enough.

Ever missed $100k on a project, but was willing to stick your neck out and say, "hey boss, I fucked up, and there's a $100k missing on this project"? Turns out, there were a few too many formulas messing up the cost sheet. It got simplified and revised. 3 years later, that guy is up for an award for one of the best in his industry in the state of Virginia this year. I'd say that's a pretty good manager for helping that guy fix the problem, and coaching him up.

Sometimes honesty, self reflection, and finding the solution with the team you have will produce long term results you want.

Fuente has:

  • Upgraded facilities, some old projects coming to fruition, some from his staff. I can't stress enough the nutrition upgrades. Seeing guys like Keyshawn King and Barno in the program for a full offseason, instead of being stuck at home, and possibly not even eating 3 meals a day, shows how much of last year was impacted by COVID.
  • Upgraded recruiting staff
  • Cleaning up the relationships with former players, and using them to help recruit
  • Brought in Jerry Kill to evaluate the offense in 2019, and get the team moving in the right direction. A hell of a short term solution. I wish he stayed.

Fuente is well aware of the offensive shortcomings, and called it out in both post game interviews over the past 2 weeks. I fully expect to see changes with the offense when they come out against Notre Dame. Maybe its the execution, the play calls, what have you. But Fuente is the type to treat the illness, rather than cut off the arm, and replace it with a metal one.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

  • Upgraded facilities, some old projects coming to fruition, some from his staff. I can't stress enough the nutrition upgrades. Seeing guys like Keyshawn King and Barno in the program for a full offseason, instead of being stuck at home, and possibly not even eating 3 meals a day, shows how much of last year was impacted by COVID.

Upgrading facilities is the responsibility of the Athletic Director.

  • Upgraded recruiting staff

Now I know you're not trying to say our ability to recruit is a reason we should keep him around.

  • Cleaning up the relationships with former players, and using them to help recruit

Holy crap you are

  • Brought in Jerry Kill to evaluate the offense in 2019, and get the team moving in the right direction. A hell of a short term solution. I wish he stayed.

Jerry Kill quit because Fuente wasn't willing to listen to the advice he gave. I mean good on Fuente for bringing him in to evaluate, but if you're not willing to listen to the advice of 'get rid of Cornelson, he doesn't even know how to watch film' then I don't even know how you can attempt to credit Fuente with some big win over it.

I will not donate to Virginia Tech Athletics as long as Justin Fuente is the head coach of VT Football. Enough is enough.

Jerry Kill quit because Fuente wasn't willing to listen to the advice he gave.

I am pretty sure this is not accurate. If I recall Kill left to be OC at TCU because the best man at his wedding (or maybe he was the best man), coach Gary Patterson, asked him.

We might never know for sure, but JUGS is normally pretty reliable. Past comment link

Kill did not like Corn at all and was one of the coaches he suggested Fuente let go at the end of the year.

There also seems to be some merit behind this story.

Sauce is 3rd hand (offensive staff member told a friend of mine who is in sports media who told me), because, hey, what else do you post on the internet, right? Here's the story but take it with a grain of salt:

A couple weeks after being hired, literally his first coaches meeting after moving to Blacksburg, Kill is sitting in on the offensive staff going over film. He gets more and disgusted as the meeting goes on and ends up telling them he knows high school coaches that can break down film better than they can. Understandably, tempers flare. Fuente, who is also sitting in, suggests everyone break for dinner so they can cool down. They all go out to eat together, but Kill is too pissed to go with the rest of them and says he'll meet back up with them after. The rest of the staff comes back and Kill is there having skipped dinner and gone straight for the bar, apparently. He picks up right where he left off and it ends up with Vice restraining Jerry who tried taking a swing at Cornelson (the account I heard says no punches landed)

So yes, it makes sense that the public comments referred to Patterson and Kill being besties. But if the above is true, would you have stuck around if you were Kill?

That is true, but it is not the reason he left.

From this link

Kill joined Justin Fuentes' staff at Virginia Tech for the 2019 campaign, serving as the assistance head coach. But when his old friend Gary called, the best man in GP's wedding left Blacksburg for Fort Worth. "It's a unique situation. Coach Patterson called me and said, 'hey, we need you'. I hadn't been [at Virginia Tech] very long, and I'm not used to doing that [jumping around]. But we've known each other a long time, and Fort Worth is a place I would like to live. This is a great opportunity to work with somebody that you've been with, that you know inside out. I felt like I could bring some help."

When I leave a job due to horrible management I always share that feedback with my boss. /s

Come on. Of course the press release was a major spin show.

So rumor/speculation/innuendo is > than reported facts/quotes.

I take people at their word over 3rd hand sources. YMMV, but to state it as fact (as Alum has done) is misleading (its unconfirmed) at best and incorrect at worst.

But if the above is true, would you have stuck around if you were Kill?

We might never know for sure, but JUGS is normally pretty reliable.

There also seems to be some merit behind this story.

Show me where I said fact.

Fair enough, I will edit.

i mean, it even begins "Sauce is 3rd hand"...which means, take it with a grain of salt.

and even if it is true, do you really want a guy sitting in with his coworkers for the first time, telling them they are worse than high school coaches, immediately hitting the bottle, and then coming back to work drunk and taking swings at his co-workers? based on the description in that paragraph, we should be glad Kill is no longer here.

That Jerry Kill-Cornelsen story has been shared and corroborated by the insiders on every VT site and I have heard it confirmed from a member of the coaching community.

Pssh. What do you know, man. Its not like you're teeming with intel.

I will not donate to Virginia Tech Athletics as long as Justin Fuente is the head coach of VT Football. Enough is enough.

I do not think and did not suggest Kill should be our coach. I was responding to the poster that said he left to be closer to his bestie. It is probably part of the truth, but there is likely more.

Now I know you're not trying to say our ability to recruit is a reason we should keep him around.

It is absolutely a data point come December. If we're 8-4 and just missed out on the ACC title game, the recruiting the past 2 cycles are a positive improvement in the right direction.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

You don't truly believe this will be the outcome do you? I can't imagine watching the same thing that I have watched over the last 6 years and thinking this to be the case.

It often amazes me how 2 people can have eye balls on the exact same thing and have conclusions that are so far apart.

How much credit should he get for improving recruiting back to where it was when he arrived when he's the guy that torpedoed recruiting in the first place? Recruiting fell off hard after the team quit on him and VT decided to declare VA players overrated and chase TX kids instead.

How much credit should he get for improving recruiting back to where it was when he arrived when he's the guy that torpedoed recruiting in the first place?

This. A good example (crossover from the soccer thread) is a recent World Cup qualifying match where the head coach started a bad lineup with arguably our most important player out of position. We went into halftime down 0-1 in what was pretty much a must-win game.

He made changes at halftime and then moved our star player back into his natural position shortly afterward. We won the match 4-1.

Is he a good coach because we ended up winning 4-1? Or is he a bad coach for getting us into a hole in the 1st half and then fortunate enough that we were able to dig ourselves out in the 2nd half (largely due to the other team tiring out at the end)?

My opinion is that if you say the former, you're OK with mediocrity. Coaches are judged by results but good/great coaches are distinguished by performances and how the team as a whole performs.

Even the best coaches occasionally commit tactical blunders. Some times things look good on paper but play out disastrously. (Sometimes they look stupid on paper and play out as expected.) The top ones acknowledge the error and fix it. The mediocre ones send their recruiting directors on to podcasts to dump on VA high schools.

That started with the individual realizing his own errors and coming clean on his mistake and poking to better himself. There has been no indication of that from this staff

Free Hugh

I said our offense is bad in my post. I also stated it already cost us a game.

But you've already made up your mind. We could go 10-2 or 9-3, and you'll still be complaining, just like we all did with Stiney. Except back then, we came to Lane and supported our teams no matter how bad Stiney called plays. We also got results, and went to the Orange Bowl more than a few times. If we gotta go back to our bread and butter to win games, than so be it. Results matter, and so far Fuente is passing that test.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Results matter, and so far Fuente is passing that test.

I will not donate to Virginia Tech Athletics as long as Justin Fuente is the head coach of VT Football. Enough is enough.

Before the season started (or maybe it was after a game or two, can't remember) I made the argument that style points matter. They're important. I stand by that. Our record, in a vacuum, doesn't look all that bad, or even any different from a 10 win Beamer team at this stage of a season. But Beamer's teams looked better doing it. When you take a step back and look at how we got to our record, you realize that our defense is underrated and our offense is impotent. Fuente has gotten the results (3-1) but he hasn't earned any style points. It will be interesting to revisit this at the end of the season. Will he be 10-2, 9-3, 8-4 or will it be more like 6-6, 5-7, 4-8? If you can't score more than 2 offensive touchdowns against an FCS team at home in sunny weather you're gonna have a bad time. 3-1 looks great right now. It could very quickly turn into 3-3. And then we're starting to have those conversations that we were having at the end of Beamer's career.

πŸ”₯β›²

Results matter, and so far Fuente is passing that test.

What is your criteria for the test? By most measurable standards he has failed miserably.

He's 3-1. A video review and BB3 away from 4-0.

He didn't get fired last year cause it was a COVID year. Throw that record out. He's got 1 bad year plus 10, 9, and 8 win seasons. If you don't like 10, 9 and 8 win seasons, go support Bama. We're not Bama.

To knee jerk over losing to WVU is premature at best. Most folks in this forum expected 1 loss by this time, and an 8 win season. So, by that metric alone we are on pace to meet expectations and keep Fuente. But bc of offensive production, folks just want to end it now.

You ready for a 4-8 season next year under a new coach? Maybe even 2 straight seasons? Cause we lose a ton of talent this December. You want to fire the new coach after not reaching your goals, and go back to the coaching carousel 2 years from now?

Cause that's where we will be. Are you okay with that? I'm not.

4 games into the season and people act like we're in November after a UVA loss-that could still happen. Yes, the offense is bad. No, I don't think it'll get elite level better, just slightly better. Yes, I'd rather enjoy watching this team play out the season than cry cause Corny is still our OC. We can still win the ACC.

Fuente's biggest test will be the 4/5 on the road to close the season. If he's grown this team, they win all of them to close the season. That's fantastic, and we should celebrate. But too many of y'all have already made up your mind.

Whit hasn't.

Fin.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Wins and losses tell part of the story, but not the entire story.

  1. Bowl streak broken
  2. Winning season streak broken
  3. Recruiting has not improved
  4. Too many players leaving via the portal
  5. UVA streak broken
  6. Failing to beat an FCS team by more than 11 points
  7. Lost the Black Diamond Trophy
  8. We've had a different starting QB every year because they all leave
  9. Losses to ODU, Liberty, getting crushed by Duke

Do I really need to keep going? These results might be okay with you, but I expect more and so should every other fan.

But too many of y'all have already made up your mind.

Whit hasn't.

Fin.

Many, many people have stated that Whit did make up his mind, and Fuente was a dead man walking last year...and something happened last minute that meant Whit could no longer fire him. That's the only feasible explanation for the incredibly strange presser last year.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

You ready for a 4-8 season next year under a new coach? Maybe even 2 straight seasons? Cause we lose a ton of talent this December.

Think about what you wrote there... We lose a ton of talent this December. We have not stocked the cupboard with talent to replace the exodus. The outlook for next year is bleak irrespective of who our coach will be. It seems prudent to rip the band-aid off now than to continue to put a band-aid over the growing problem.

Can you seriously say the trajectory of our program is going anywhere but down? Our record is worse each year. Our overall team talent and depth is getting worse each year. Player development on offense is not happening. Starters are transferring out of the program to play for peer or lesser schools. What more is needed?

this is fair for the most part. I have two issues with it.

1)

To knee jerk over losing to WVU is premature at best

It's absolutely not a knee jerk. It is yet another data point in a pretty clear trend.

2)

You ready for a 4-8 season next year under a new coach?

We're likely to have a 4-8 season next year regardless. I'd rather it be year 1 for a new coach than year 7 for Fuente. The fact that we're looking at a bleak 2022 campaign in the first place is a huge indictment of this coaching staff. I know full well that this coaching staff isn't going to achieve the goals we, as fans, expect of VT (winning the Coastal - which couldn't be easier than it is now - and contending for the ACC Title). I also know full well that when we do eventually part ways with this staff the next coach is going to have a big rebuild project on his hands and 4 wins is absolutely in the cards. I'll be a lot more pissed off about Fuente winning 4 games in 2022 than I will be for literally anyone else. In fact, I'd rather see JHam win 2 games in 2022 than watch Fuente win 4. A change is needed and the longer we wait the worse it's going to be for the next guy (as evidenced by your argument that next year is going to suck - because of 6 years of ineptitude by the current staff). If you can't recognize that a change is needed, I don't know what else to tell you.

πŸ”₯β›²

Man, what? What are these categories? Why are you looking at just this year?

Results: In arguably the worst division in P5 he's gone 26-17, with very few signature wins. 2016 was a good year! But from there he doesn't have a single bowl win, and broke the bowl streak last year. What's the best team Fuente has beaten?

Avoiding bad losses: A) an incredibly low bar B) this is year 6 and we can't look at this year in a vacuum. He's lost to Liberty, ODU, UVA, a bad 2016 Syracuse team, a bad 2017 GT team, and got SMOKED by a bad 2019 Duke team.

NFL Caliber Players, players playing hard etc.: Agreed, this has been fine.

Finding other offensive weapons
This is difficult to judge, but overall while his offenses have been more dynamic than before (big asterisk here, see below), we haven't had a ton of dynamic WRs/RBs.

If you look at VT record books, only a few guys from Fuente show up, and more on that point below...

QB Growth / Offensive Growth Combining these categories because this is what Fuente was hired for.

Any "best Offense in VT History" comments (lots of this going around Twitter), with all due respect to Jerod Evans, who was quite good for us, needs a massive asterisk considering just how conservative + run / ball control heavy Beamer's offenses were. VT does not have an illustrious history of offensive power.

These are categories that should be most heavily weighted because of the low bar in terms of VT history of offense and the relatively pedestrian results. We were promised fast paced offenses! A QB guru! Where is all of that!? You can't possibly watch this Cornelsen offense and think we're getting what we paid for.

D Growth JHam has had a tall order here, replacing Bud Foster + COVID offseason. Fuente gets a green check for the hire for sure.

Front 7 Growth
Incomplete. D-Line has been a thin spot for a few years.

Off the field issues Over his tenure this has been less than ideal! Hunter, the SI article, dismissals of several key players, handling of COVID, etc. Not a bright spot even if you want to give him credit for his handling of a horrendous situation this offseason.

Recruiting Lots and lots of words have been dedicated to how the incoming class is not as good as advertised by some. Some good guys at the top and some dudes at the bottom that are likely not worthy of a P5 scholarship.

We're 1-0 in ACC play, and control our destiny to Charlotte.

I'll print this post out and eat it if we make it to Charlotte.

You don't like good results with decent coaching? Wait til we're in a rebuild, and have to watch bad results with good coaching.

I would 100% rather be in a full on rebuild with a coaching staff I believe in. We're in year SIX and the whole Year 1 joke is still going around because we're still way behind schedule.

We got lucky to see Fuente start the post-Beamer era with 10 and 9 wins with help from veteran leaders in the locker room. We didn't have to see piss poor results until a bad locker room and injuries shook up 2018. 2019 was a solid 8 win bounce back. Fuente has proven his teams can overcome adversity. The 4/5 games on the road to close out the season will be his proving ground.

Fu bears some responsibility for the bad locker room and the 10 and 9 wins are in part thanks to what Frank & Co. did prior to Fuente leaving. Fuente was still the coach but as the program has become 100% his, what he did in his first two years feels more and more like he was benefiting from Frank.

Is every single thing on fire? No.

Is he doing a good enough job for us to

...take a deep breathe, and get behind this team, instead of lament on all the bad.

IMO, also no.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Off the field issues Over his tenure this has been less than ideal! Hunter, the SI article, dismissals of several key players, handling of COVID, etc. Not a bright spot even if you want to give him credit for his handling of a horrendous situation this offseason.

And a player has been charged with murdering someone. Off the field issues can't get much worse than that.

Agreed on nearly all of this, but just to provide one answer to this question:

What's the best team Fuente has beaten?

Beating a ranked Wake in 2019 I think is his best W post-2016. Honorable mention to the win at 22nd ranked Duke one week after the ODU humiliation, that was...an accomplishment

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

Leg for the answer.

A big old YIKES for those being the (likely correct!) answers.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

Fuente's best win was the ACCCG loss to Clemson.

This is also valid, we ranneth over with Quality that night

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

He beat a top-10 ranked UNC this season.

Sadly the shine is tarnishing quickly on that win.

I'll say.

really not convinced they deserved to be ranked that high. Gotta wait before I decide to give that any more significance than FSU 2018

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

really not convinced they deserved to be ranked that high

FTFY

I will not donate to Virginia Tech Athletics as long as Justin Fuente is the head coach of VT Football. Enough is enough.

In the NFL does the GM or the head coach pick the assistant coaches?

In the NFL I know the GM manages the roster and hires/fires the head coach but you don't hear much about who picks the assistant coaches. College head coach certainly seem to have significantly more control over their team, and I don't think that's necessarily a good thing for the school.

Pretty sure HC's in the NFL select their own staff.

Here's a question I just had about buyouts.

How does the annual December 16 date compare to other coaches in regards to when the buyout drops each year? I highly doubt that so many schools have it conveniently set for Thanksgiving weekend, so it's probably not a huge factor in their decision. I've done some quick looking and can't seem to find specific dates for any coaches, just the details that it goes down each year.

If Justin Fuente refuses to fire Brad Cornelson, Justin Fuente passes the buck of "biggest hindrance" on to himself.

21st century QBs Undefeated vs UVA:
MV7, MV5, LT3, Braxton Burmeister, Ryan Willis, Josh Jackson, Jerod Evans, Michael Brewer, Tyrod Taylor, Sean Glennon, and Grant Noel. That's right, UVA. You couldn't beat Grant Noel.

All comments have said all that need to be said about Corn, so I won't repeat everyone else's sentiments on him....my thought on the part about our rivals...

Right now, I think most Hokies would agree our best rivals are UVA, UNC, and Miami. Against UVA, Fuente is 4-1. Against UNC, he's 5-1. Against Miami, he's 2-3. I may be crazy but 11-5 against our more hated rivals over 6 years ain't bad.

You're right, that's not bad at all....it's our record against everyone else that is the issue

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Well it is still kind of bad IMO (even in the context of these cherry picked statistics) because it's not like any of these teams are world beaters. It's no secret that part of the reason we've been able to scape by is because the coastal is complete doo-doo. Beating up on lolva is great because fuck those guys, but its not much of a bragging right in the grand scheme of college football.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

You're not wrong

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Good thing Liberty and ODU aren't our rivals

Free Hugh

Here's the gripe about Corn, aside from the fact his offense is pathetic: Fuente said the goal this year was to make him more accessible to the press and to the fans. Try to humanize the guy. The only time he's done that was that film study they posted on social media, which only served to show us that Kill was right and Cornballs does not know how to watch film and he lacks a basic understanding of the game of football. Maybe he thinks its soccer? An inverted 'Ted Lasso' of sorts.

If Corn is more accessible to the press, which I highly doubt, someone needs to nail his ass to the wall with the objective data that our production has been on a steady decline since 2017. Make him explain this and don't accept "well we set a bunch of records in 2016". The only constant in that offense since then has been Corn. We've got new lines, new QBs, new backs, new receivers, but the same dickhead OC.

Justin can keep his job for another year if he cans Corn. If he's not willing to do that, prepare your kids to transfer schools and put your house on the market.

I would root for the Russians before I would root for Virginia.

There is also the potential if the wheels come off the bus, that Whit relieves Fuente of his duties in November for evaluations. Then they let him go on December 16.

Unless things change performance wise, I still think it is going to come down to a meeting between Fuente and Whit. Whit is going to say are you replacing Corn or am I replacing you?

A sobering thought... we may be losing much of our offensive weapons at the end of this season (Turner, Mitchell, Holston) and likely losing our best DB (Waller). If Fuente comes back next year, it's hard to imagine our offense being better than this. If Fuente is fired, the cupboard is pretty empty - not much depth at any position group, and certainly not a lot of experienced talent. A true rebuild is needed.

I'm encouraged by GT's turn around. I expected their resurrection to relevance would take a long time, but with the right coach, things can change relatively quickly.

yeah, whoever does replace Fuente is going to be inheriting a much worse situation than Fuente inherited when Beamer retired. Fuente clearly isn't the right guy for the job. The indicators have been there since 2018 and it is abundantly clear now. I know that there are a lot of folks out there who are preaching "Fuente needs more time" or "6 years isn't long enough" blah blah but that is all garbage. Fuente inherited a good team and has driven it into the ground in his 6 years. There are better coaches out there who have done better with less talent in less time. The next coach, however, is going to need at least 5 years to get us back into contention for the ACC because he will have a true rebuild on his hands. I would not expect VT to contend for the ACC until at least 2025 or 2026. Instead, just look for steady progress and measurable improvements. The longer Fuente remains, the worse it is going to get.

πŸ”₯β›²

I continue to scratch my head about several things with this program but come on he hasn't driven it into the ground. We were ranked 15th a week ago and he has a 41-27 record. Be careful what you wish for.

Agreed...Fu did inherit a decent team in 2016 and even 2017, but remember that same team minus Evans finished 6-6 in 2015 and 3 out of the last 4 Beamer teams finished with that record. This program wasn't in as good a shape like a lot of ppl think imo...that being said Fu hasn't necessary done himself any favors.

By the end Beamer had talent on the roster but couldn't coach it due to age/health/who knows.

Nailed it. The difference between a good program and a good team. It is crazy to think that - offensive warts and all - we are possibly 1 play away from going into ND as an undefeated Top 10 team. But we are seemingly always tetering on the edge between decent and distaster. We have not built a sustainable top tier or even second tier program. I actually like Fuente, but that is tough to accept in year 6. Money will or SHOULD eventually help that situation, but if next year is going to be a rebuild, do you just rebuild it from the foundation up?

i know we all want to consider these what if scenarios and cases to keep/fire Fuente, but I would say let the season play out, and then towards the end we can talk about it. I don't forsee a coaching change however the season plays out. This is Whit's guy and Whit will stick with Fu. And Fu will not fire Cornelsen or make any sort of change with Corny.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

This is Whit's guy and Whit will stick with Fu.

I genuinely hope you're wrong. VT used to be fun to watch. Even in Beamer's twilight years I could tune into any given game and believe that there was a real chance VT would win. This team is not fun to watch. These 3.5 hour stomach aches, against FCS teams no less, are not fun at all. I don't have any confidence that VT will win any of the remaining games on the schedule. I'm sure they will win some but it's not going to be fun to watch. If Whit knows what is good for his department, he will move on from Fuente. If Fuente doesn't win out (SPOILER: he won't) he should be fired. If he isn't, VT football is going to continue it's descent into purgatory where it will remain for a long, long time. Just imagine what our record would be if we don't have Hamilton. And, we won't have him much longer at this rate. The job he is doing with this defense is going to garner a lot of attention from suitors who will pay him more (and promise to pair him with better offenses). I can't see Hamilton staying in Blacksburg longer than 3 years at this rate.

πŸ”₯β›²

So if we go 10-2 you want him fired?? Sure man

do you really believe that VT will finish 10-2? Realistically?

πŸ”₯β›²

In this ACC? Maybe.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

VPIHokieME.

I genuinely hope you're wrong. VT used to be fun to watch. Even in Beamer's twilight years I could tune into any given game and believe that there was a real chance VT would win. This team is not fun to watch. These 3.5 hour stomach aches, against FCS teams no less, are not fun at all. I don't have any confidence that VT will win any of the remaining games on the schedule. I'm sure they will win some but it's not going to be fun to watch. If Whit knows what is good for his department, he will move on from Fuente.

I completely agree with you. Its just not fun to turn on the game anymore. I try not to miss any games even if I;m out, I usually watch the game on-Demand. On Saturday night as I was watching the replay, It would tough to watch this offense. Heck I think Stinespring was better at this point. If we don't make the change at OC, we will suffer.

Aside from that, our recruiting needs to improve (by a lot), and more specifically at the QB position. We need to win those recruiting battles in-state, out of state. We also need to develop players (referring to Beamer era, we got 2-3 star guys, Beamer's staff was able to turn them into 4-5 stars before leaving) so we can grow and have players ready to play. I think its more than an offense issue, I think the overall vision is lacking under Fuente and we are having multiple issues with the program. Its very frustrating to listen to him.'

I'm ready to turn the Keys to Justin Hamilton.

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

The only case that could be made for Fuente at this point is if he canned Corny, took over play-calling responsibilities immediately and worked towards hiring a new OC as soon as the season is over. Outside of that I don't think there's a legitimate case.

Is coronavirus over yet?

Fuente should have been fired two years ago, after losing to a bad Duke team at home.
If he isn't willing to fix problems he isn't doing his fucking job.

This argument posted here is garbage. The expectation isn't to beat rival teams every now and then. The expectation is to be in the mix to win the ACC every year, with a shot at the playoff every 4-5 years.

Hell lets make it even simpler, Fuente is a supposed offensive and QB guru and the offense has been trash except for 2016 when it was stocked with NFL talent. Fuente does not make any unit better, can't recruit, can't develop and routinely loses games because of his in game choices. He is a fucking moron.

That's what I'm talking about....the only one who can now make a move is Whit.....someone start a petition to Whit to Fire Fuente

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

Fuente is a supposed offensive and QB guru and the offense has been trash except for 2016 when it was stocked with NFL talent. Fuente does not make any unit better, can't recruit, can't develop and routinely loses games because of his in game choices. He is a fucking moron.

via GIPHY

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

Oh come on, it's not like Fuente lost a commitment from a guy who is likely going to be a top-15 draft pick because Fuente didn't think the kid was good enough to play QB at VT.

/holds ear piece

Well shit.

(I think Fuente deserves way more heat for this and for blowing off the 1999 team than he actually gets)

Wait...which one was this?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Malik Willis

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

ah yes...I mean, he was probably right, we got two 4 star QBs and a room full of other QBs, right? RIGHT?

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

/grabs pint of ice cream
//starts playing "Holding Back The Years" by Simply Red
///cries

Yes sir!

LET'S GO #MakeTheMove

#MakeTheMove . . . "Vick, dashing back . . . here he comes again . . . Electrifying . . . and have you ever seen anything like this?"

In our search for a new offensive coordinator (as everyone seems to agree we need a new one), I'd like to do a *blind taste test based on stats against a common opponent with some names that may or may not have been thrown around on this board, so humor me for second.

*I will ETA more information later. Also, I fully understand the validity of a single game comparison but that is not the point of this blind taste test.

So, do we want the offensive coordinator from Team A or Team B? Please pick one.

Team A
1st Downs 19
3rd down efficiency 5-13
4th down efficiency 1-2
Total Yards 313
Passing 256
Comp-Att 26-36
Yards per pass 7.1
Interceptions thrown 1
Rushing 57
Rushing Attempts 28
Yards per rush 2.0
Penalties 4-35
Turnovers 1
Fumbles lost 0
Interceptions thrown 1
Possession 27:00

Team B
1st Downs 20
3rd down efficiency 6-16
4th down efficiency 1-4
Total Yards 329
Passing 223
Comp-Att 19-31
Yards per pass 7.2
Interceptions thrown 0
Rushing 106
Rushing Attempts 42
Yards per rush 2.5
Penalties 6-45
Turnovers 0
Fumbles lost 0
Interceptions thrown 0
Possession 32:03

*ETA - Total points scored were within 5 points for Team A and B

conspicuously absent from your data - Points. The offense can be great between the 20s and still suck. Points matter. Points win games.

πŸ”₯β›²

Added some info on points scored

If they included points, that is all anyone would look at. By omitting them, we can focus on stylistic differences. For me, I prefer A. More passing attempts points to a more modern offense. The game is going the way of Bucs-Rams last night where there were something like 3 combined rush attempts between both teams in the 3rd quarter. So, I prefer an offense that is more closely aligned with the NFL game.

Get Angry, Bud!

agreed. However, Team A and B were within 5 points of each other.

Is this just a handpicked trap to prove Cornelson isn't that bad?

Free Hugh

Yeah he picked the worst offensive game Oklahoma has had in like 5 years.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

Lol predictable

Free Hugh

There is way too much variation in single game performances for this to be a valid way to compare things. I have another one:

Team A
1st Downs 19
3rd down efficiency 6-13
4th down efficiency 0-1
Total Yards 318
Passing 212
Comp-Att 17-29
Yards per pass 7.3
Interceptions thrown 1
Rushing 106
Rushing Attempts 33
Yards per rush 3.2
Penalties 4-35
Turnovers 1
Fumbles lost 0
Interceptions thrown 1
Possession 26:57
Points 14

Team B
1st Downs 20
3rd down efficiency 7-14
4th down efficiency 0-0
Total Yards 480
Passing 350
Comp-Att 27-41
Yards per pass 8.5
Interceptions thrown 1
Rushing 130
Rushing Attempts 30
Yards per rush 4.3
Penalties 5-48
Turnovers 2
Fumbles lost 1
Interceptions thrown 1
Possession 31:53
Points 34

These performances are also against the same opponent in consecutive weeks. I added points (scored by the offense) because it seems like an important metric.

I don't think this should be viewed as any kind of "overall" metric on an OC's ability though. A single game can never be that. Sometimes you have a good game, or a bad game...it's when the performances become indicative of a trend that you can consider the OC good or bad.

Team B won the time of possession. There isn't enough information to determine whether the turnover battle was won or lost. Assuming both teams won or tied the turnover battle, Team B is the clear winner.

I just cannot understand why his initial contract and then extension included such high pay and such a high buyout. Whit has been a great AD, and bringing in Fuente was not a mistake, but it seems Whit made a big mistake with Fuente's contract. You offer this guy the moon and then he leverages you for all sorts of additional $$ to go to recruiting and player development and facilities. Fuente should never have been gifted that leverage; I mean he was able to leverage Whit while he was underperforming.

It just rubs me the wrong way when I hear Fuente saying "all the right things" about the players and caring for them and developing them into young men, etc., while he is getting paid boatloads to underperform. He didn't deserve the contract Whit gave him. A few good seasons at Memphis and he was lucky enough to coach Andy Dalton. But Dalton and Lynch were probably going to be great college QB's regardless of who coached them.

Even if things work out with Fuente long term, from an AD perspective Whit made a mistake with the contract. And I know Fuente works extremely hard, but does he really deserve to have made as much $$ as he has these past 6 years compared to the rest of his staff and other head coaches in college football?

My take is that Fuente is a good man who cares deeply about the players, who works hard, and wants to do things the right way. He knows how to run a good offensive scheme as evidenced by his time at Memphis and TCU. Unfortunately, he hitched his wagon to a friend who had never been an independent coordinator and doesn't seem up to the task. That will likely be his downfall.

Given Fuente's other qualities, I think he will be successful at his next stop (likely as an OC or as a HC for a G5 team) and that he will wind up being a good head coach for a P5 program down the line.

I pretty much agree with all of this. It will be very interesting to me to see who he brings with him to his next job and how they perform.

πŸ”₯β›²

Agree. Same story with Stiney, who by all accounts was a great guy, excellent recruiter, good OL coach, etc. He just sucked as an OC, and his boss wouldn't hold him accountable because they were friends.

Maybe someone should send Fu a copy of Radical Candor.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."
--unknown

It's a shame, cause that demotion back to the G5 would likely be unnecessary if he would just have one uncomfortable talk with Big Brain Brad

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

I mostly agree that Whit is not bearing enough the responsibility for getting VT into this predicament. That said, HC contract trends and the popularity of Fuente at the time dictated those terms. But the terms are egregious for a cash-strapped Ath. Dept. I'm guessing Whit has buyer's remorse now, since his hands are essentially tied due to budgetary concerns.

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

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sorry this is all i could come up with and it should have been done faster

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

In my (probably way too simplistic) view of things, the offensive struggles boil down to one of five things (or a combination of them).

1. Poor in game coaching/play calling

2. Poor preparation/scheming ahead of the game

3. Poor talent evaluation on the recruiting trail

4. Poor recruiting in general

5. Poor player development

No matter which one(s) might be the biggest issue, on the offensive side of the ball, at the end of the day, the blame falls on the offensive coaching staff. And if Fuente is unwilling to make the changes needed to get VT football where it needs to be, then the blame shifts to him.

No Hokie fan can look at this product and say they are satisfied with the output. Cornelsen is making nearly a half-mil per year, and Fuente is making what? $4 mil? It is time that we demand some return on investment here.

We just put up 318 yards of offense and two offensive TDs against FCS Richmond (and let's not act like it was a fluke). Hell, Villanova put up 480 yards on them and scored 3 TDs in the 4th quarter alone.

We've got a few G5 coaches getting paid like Power 5 coaches putting out G5 - FCS level product.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

how about all 5

Hokies, Local Soccer, AFC Ajax, Ravens

Not a ton of realistic names out there that would make me confident that we could get back to 10 wins per year. The problem is VT isn't a sexy place for recruits. If Fuente can get us back to T25 recruiting classes, I think he can win us 8-10 games a year.

We don't have enough of a talent gap to consistently outcoach teams in toss up games 6 times a year and expect to win 5 of them. That's the reality. Take the 7.5M buyout and start stuffing it into recruits pockets like all the other big boy schools. Just give me 3 of the top 10 VA recruits and we start winning more.

Also, there was an incredible run of great VA QBs from 1999-2010. Vick, Vick, Tyrod, Russell Wilson, Tahj Boyd, EJ Manuel. There haven't been dynamic QBs in VA recently and that has affected us greatly.

It doesn't matter what Fuente's good qualities are, that he cares about the players, is a culture fit, was the hot name when he was hired, etc.

His actions indicate the doesn't care about winning. He doesn't care about doing what is best for the team.
His loyalty to BC is ruining careers.

Maybe he IS Ted Lasso - doesn't care about wins and losses, just about helping the players be the best versions of themselves on and off the field. Certainly would explain a lot, especially if Cornelson also believed that rather than giving the Coach Beard talk about winning mattering.

He's not fucking Ted Lasso. Hooker was having a panic attack last year and no one did anything.

Kadum being put in position to fail on Saturday was the same thing.

Fuente and Cornelson are incompetent morons, they shouldn't be running a Sheetz let alone a College Football team.

WHOA dude! I was joking. And only really referencing the not caring about wins piece. The example with Hooker is a good one, but all the QBs transferring out rather than being developed, hell, what happened with Etute, and others point out a lot of other stuff I wouldn't think would happen with a real life Ted Lasso as coach.

Sorry, I didn't get the joke.

Of Fuente's strengths caring about his players is the one that is the weakest. He cares about some of them. He does a good job of not leaking information about transfers. He does appear to be a culture fit in Blacksburg, depending on how you define culture. He does run a clean program. He wants to run the best development program in the country, which is a nice aspiration but the execution isn't even close.

Between a coach with zero integrity that wins every single game and Fuente, I would pick Fuente.
If I was younger I'd pick the hypothetical zero integrity infinite wins coach.

YeAh, upon re-reading, it doesn't sound joking at all. I think you're right - I think he cares a lot about SOME of the players. Considering some of the players really do seem to love him, my guess is to the ones he's not a fan of is probably cordial indifference. Sounds like he alienated Hooker - like he didn't accept/believe being really cold was a thing (apparently he's never heard of hypothermia and that people die from it, or maybe it WAS a panic attack and they thought the symptoms were from cold), whatever the case, sounds like he thought something like Hooker quit on the team or didn't want to be out on the field. The comments he made about the situation seemed very dismissive, so not surprised Hooker left. And since it seemed like Patterson was close to Hooker, and maybe because he saw how another QB was treated, he decided Tech wasn't a place he wanted to stick around.

I do like that he runs a clean program - I'd never want the zero integrity coach. People have said they'd take Freeze, but what happens when the crap they do catches up - they leave for a new job with someone else and we get stuck with sanctions, less scholarships, bowl bans, etc. The whole not winning thing does suck though.