OT - Hospital sues to stop employees from leaving

Check this out. A hospital is losing several employees to another company. The employees asked for a counter offer from their current company which was refused. Now the company is suing the other company to stop them from hiring their employees. I guess they'd rather pay the legal fees instead of paying an increase in salary.

https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/health/2022/01/20/thedacare-ascension-go-court-over-stroke-trauma-employee-hires/6595232001/

I'd love to hear from the attorneys here.

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Not an attorney, but in my experience, when given the option of increasing employee salaries or literally anything else, companies almost exclusively chose the latter.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Man my current company is dealing with this right now. We are hemorrhaging employees left and right at the current moment with my team alone dealing with about a 90% attrition rate since the start of COVID. And the reasoning behind it is simple.

1 - They aren't paying enough
2 - They are way too obsessed on everyone returning to the office

And wouldn't you know it, last week I found an opportunity with another company in the area. And the kicker is, when I'm talking to management about my decision, they're not at all surprised and are basically saying the company is making a huge mistake by trying to just ride this out.

This is my school
This is home

They are way too obsessed on everyone returning to the office

I have been luckly to get promotions/raises in the last two years of covid, but I am interested to see how many companies are pushing this. Of course it depends on job/occupation, but if there was one good thing about covid, it showed companies that most people can do their job at home. The work/life balance is 2nd to none... My company gives the option to go back into office but not mandated. I already told my manager if they force me to go into office, I'll be looking for other opportunities that are 100% remote, which most new opportunities are now offering it. It's almost at a point where if the company doesn't offer a remote option, they are behind the 8-ball with other companies hiring.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

It's almost at a point where if the company doesn't offer a remote option, they are behind the 8-ball with other companies hiring.

I know in my industry it is to that point. There are an unbelievable amount of 100% remote jobs on LinkedIn right now to the point that its almost overwhelming when you try to sort through them.

Certainly has changed the job market and talent pool as you're now competing nationally if not internationally for almost every position instead of locally and regionally.

(add if applicable) /s

Certainly has changed the job market and talent pool as you're now competing nationally if not internationally for almost every position instead of locally and regionally.

Thats a good point about competing against nationally/internationally prospects... My company is HQ's in Herndon, VA but from what I've seen, most of the hires since the start of covid has been outside VA/DMV area.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

Yup -- two kinds of companies: the ones who learned and adapted, and the ones who just want to go back to "normal". I started a new gig two weeks ago, all jobs scientist-level have minimum of 2 wfh days a week as your schedule allows. Flex time! Trust in the employee to manage their own schedule! And their own time! It's so nice compared to my previous job

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I think we are now living in the new "normal" when it comes to jobs/companies and will never return to the old "normal" pre-covid/lockdown... Gone are the days where companies expect you to be in the office 5 days a weeks... I know know some people like going ino the office to get out of the house/get away from family/pets, etc. but the work/life balance we now is 2nd to none as we don't have to wake up early, shower, rush to get ready and dressed, drive to work, and then back. And I am selfishly speaking where I have no kids to take care of... plus more sleep which I am willing bet to most people don't get enough of.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

The IT part of my organization was focused on a return to the office 100% last summer. Communication went out to that effect. Within 3 weeks, a sizable number of high potential people left to go to work at organizations with much better WFH policies. I will give our CIO credit. Within weeks he had convinced the company owners to reverse rhat policy for IT workers. We now have a 'work wherever you want' policy. If you want to work in the office, you have a dedicated space. If you want to work 100% from home, ok. If you want to work somewhere in between those extremes, you can reserve flex space in the office ahead of time. Since that change, not a single person has left.

Our annual raise time is in July. Rumors have been circulating that the company may go on the cheap and restrict raises for high earners (ie IT folks). I relayed my hope to my boss that has a great connection to company leaders that we dont repeat a stupid mistake and handcuff IT again. We will lose more people, this time the senior ones, before the mistake is realized and mitigated.

I have hope somebody is listening.

Companies, state government, tomato potato

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Is the hospital owned by Dan Snyder?

Shit, I'd just be happy for someone to walk in looking for a job right now lol

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

Finally found a guy last week only to have to call him to wake up to come to work on his 3rd fucking day last week.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

My first shift at my job in college was after a noon game. I fell asleep and was 3 hours late that was embarrassing.

(add if applicable) /s

I had a recruiter reach out this morning to ask me about re-applying for a job I came in second for a year ago. I told him sure but the price has gone up quite a bit. He asked "What is your justification for this higher salary?" I said "I've been promoted, I have a year of grad school under my belt, and also watch the news."

He acted like he had no idea what I was talking about with "the current labor market". I am thinking I will probably cancel the interview, but I might still do it just to say "the price has gone up another 5K, it's the idiot recruiter tax."

Don't forget that if your current gig paid for any of that grad school - you need and increase to cover what you have to pay them back

I told him I’d crawl on my hands and knees to be the DL coach at Virginia Tech. Now, all of a sudden, I’m sitting in this chair and I told him I’d still crawl on my hands and knees to work here. I just want to be here.
JC Price

IF you have to pay them back. Some companies cover this outright, others have a re-payment clause. At a minimum you ask for a sign-on bonus to help you cover down on the repayment.

the price has gone up another 5K, it's the idiot recruiter tax.

I support knowing your worth and getting paid, but if you actually want the job, I probably wouldn't word it that way. Just say, "Okay well I disagree, x is the magic number. Call me if you change your mind."

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

As you said, the market is outrageous right now... go get paid! The nationwide CPI-U increased at a rate of 6.8% from Nov 2020 to Nov 2021. Therefore, increase your previous ask by that AND THEN add your 5k.

They paid some idiot to pitch this idea, and paid a bunch of other idiots to workshop it before they decided to pay lawyers for this.

I'm sure this enhanced shareholder value somehow.

For those who don't know (I assume everyone does, but just in case)....

Glassdoor is your friend. If you think you aren't being paid a fair wage, hit that site up and look to see what companies are paying in your area. Hell, there's a solid chance that someone from your company has already self reported.

This is my school
This is home

Never heard of it till today and gotta say it was interesting seeing whats said about where you work.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I help run a few companies hit real hard the past 2 years. Most of them require in-person sales or services.

In-person transactions are very discouraged for many people and others a very scared to do that.
Costs have gone up very much. These costs have gone up for employees as well as employers.
Revenue down considerably, costs up considerably, employees demanding more.

Can't blame the employees.
The squeeze on the businesses is real. Many of the businesses can't respond to employee demand.
There will be more failures.

This is going to be great for the ACC.

My wife is in HR and she got her Master's Degree at Strayer University after getting a Hotel and Tourism Management Bachelor's Degree at Virginia Tech. She was an HR Generalist and she felt she knew more than her boss and her bosses boss so when she heard that her boss was going to go from acting Director to possible Director or they were going to hire outside of the company she started applying to other jobs, got tons of hits, and within 2-3 weeks she was offered an HR Director job with more money. Get your resume' right, practice interviewing, and there are TONS of opportunities right now! She put in tons of hours where she is currently at for just under 2 more weeks now and was taken for granted. She went above and beyond and they will feel it when she is gone. I wish no bad on the company and I wish the company and people well but I am super happy for my wife!

FIRST DOWN, HOKIES!

Our division manager has been very flexible with me being at work or at home. As long as I get my shit done, no one complains.

Of course, being in construction, the field guys don't have that luxury, so I try not to take advantage of it.

I can do 90% of my job at home without ever putting pants on.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

I can do 90% of my job at home without ever putting pants on.

Being able to literally roll out of bed at 9 am (or whenever I want) and walk straight to my computer has been the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

This was me during the COVID lockdown. Two weeks into the pandemic, I stopped setting an alarm clock. Even though we are now mandatory back in office, I haven't restarted setting an alarm.

I wake up somewhere between 530-7 and if it isn't yet 7:30 i might lay in bed a bit longer. Then I bojangle around the house getting coffee, checking email, maybe doing some light work, eating and getting showered and driving in for my first meeting around 9 every day. Sometimes I take that meeting from home and get into the office around 10.

Its SO nice to not have to be at the office a X o'clock and still be able to do everything I need to do in a day. Taking back a bit of my work life balance has been extraordinary. And since I live in a small town and have a 3.5 mile commute, being back in the office isn't as bad as it might be for someone in a suburb.

As someone who's had to go in every day of this covid shit show the ones who abuse the "work" from home are the bane of my existence. Those who legit work from home I love but my best one yet is I called an engineer to resolve a fuck up on his end so I could keep building and he gave me the I'm walking my dog at the park get back to you in 2 hours. It was 10 am when I called.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

The good news is you actually can tell (or at least I feel like you can tell) the people that are this way. When work doesn't get done, or you you have someone who's suspiciously untimely about responding to messages, people tend to notice.

How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Jet Sweep

Yeah its why atleast on our end we're no longer allowing people like engineers to work from home on a permanent basis. Currently requiring engineers to be in 3 days a week at minimum to prevent the abuse that was going on with people being too casual about their workload. Still letting jobs that can be done remotely work that way but those are sales and service reps anyway who dont need to be around.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Other than PTO and a 2-week shutdown for a minor outbreak on my project site, I have been on-site every single day since this shit kicked off. Meanwhile, all of the folks working in the office have been working from home. Now, I understand that WFH brings a whole different set of challenges, but my company was already set up for remote work seeing as we have project sites across all 50 states so it wasn't that much of a learning curve for the infrastructure side other than beefing up support.

That said, I can't help but feel a little twinge of resentment towards the office side of the company.

Regarding this story, it sounds like one person left, and then convinced the rest to come along. This is very common. Especially when the company everyone is leaving sucks, culture, profits, lack of support, etc.

What's odd is there's a recruiter involved, meaning there may be some money changing hands unethically. Speculation, but say the first guy getting a cut from the recruiter's fee for each person that comes with. There's already referral programs, but maybe some more cash to line everyone's pockets.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Recruited or not, you can't force people to work for you.

No but law suits will keep people from moving to the new job until courts settle things.

I don't see any way it doesn't get tossed immediately. Former employer had opportunity to keep them but refused. Now they are crying about it. I'm no lawyer but if I was the judge, I'd toss it and sanction the attorneys for filing such a stupid lawsuit.

You'd like to think that, but there have been cases similar to this that have gone to court. It really depends on the state and judge.

I've worked at multiple startups when they sold themselves to larger companies. In every single case the owners were happy building the company themselves, but the main reason they sold was to get corporate lawyers as their customers and competitors would bully them. All stopped once the name on the building changed.

EDIT: judge did block them from leaving temporarily Article Here!

I think it's important to note that this case is about highly trained medical employees, and them leaving would possibly prevent people from getting important medical procedures done they they need. Plus, like you said it's a temporary thing. It still feels kind of weird, but it's not like they're saying you can't leave this accounting firm for another accounting firm ever.

Not every medical facility can provide every treatment. Heck I got an MRI in the back of a truck because a number of hospitals couldn't afford it so it was mobile and shared. I am not sure of the distance, but there is another facility with potentially 7 new employees that can handle those situations. It's a hospital so those are important but at the same time its a 1 billion dollar business that has to tailor its service offerings due to staffing.

Also can these 7 employees sue the state for loss of pay since they are prevented to take a new job?

Yeah, I'm not really sure if this will hold up as it moves up the courts, and I don't agree with the ruling. It's just a little more nuanced than I thought it would be reading the initial headline.

I think my company has a 'no recruiting people away from our company within X months of leaving' policy. It is easily avoided if a recruiter does the work. But if it can be traced back to active recruiting away from our company my guess is that someone would be looking to take action too.

From what I understand I don't think there was much convincing. The first person just shared their salary and benefits with coworkers and led to a glut of others applying and getting offers. People just like making more money, who coulda figured.

This is my school
This is home

HR people everywhere: That can't be right. Let's try more unpaid overtime.

As Stanley Hudson of The Office noted, I am too poor to retire, and too old to get hired anywhere else....

That's what she said

Free Hugh

And a judge granted an injunction so they can't start work at the new company. In an at will employment state. Somehow they wonder why people are getting fed up with this BS.

They can fire you at any moment for any reason but legally they cannot decide to leave their job.

That's straight up indentured servitude right there, and very much unconstitutional

This is my school
This is home

Aw these poor, poor companies that can't hire anyone or are losing employees, I feel so bad for them. /S

Working for myself, with my own schedule, doing what I love and getting paid for it, making $40,000 a year is a thousand times better than working for corporate America, or any company in general, with all of the smoke and mirrors during the hiring process and BS you have to deal with once you work there. I highly, highly recommend to anyone to step out on their own. It isn't easy, but it's worth it, especially when I'm sitting on my boat or a ski slope on a random Tuesday and everyone else is working.

You will see this game, this upset and this sign next on ESPN Sportscenter. Virginia Tech 31 Miami 7

His decision was made after a phone call with longtime Virginia Tech assistant coach Bud Foster. All Foster told him was, "We win. They don't."

Edit: Same video MoggyHokie posted above.

Had a video of a lawyer talking about this case pop up in my YouTube feed.

I really like this guy. He popped on my feed a couple months ago about a case I was interested in. Does a great job explaining things and he's really level headed.