JUNE 2022 FOOTBALL RECRUITING THREAD

Discuss and share any recruiting topics for June 2022 that don't warrant their own threads. Commits and Decommits warrant their own threads.

This recruiting thread is used to share information regarding VT-specific targets, PWO offers, scholarship offers, visits, camps, and general news, in addition to larger trends. In the interests of limiting load times, check the thread to see if a tweet was already embedded prior to adding it yourself.

[0]. Please do some digging to share original content (e.g. embed the original tweet, not a link to another post/website with said tweet), add context / relevant information and respect the Community Guidelines.
[1] New commitments, decommitments, portal entries, etc... deserve their own thread. Please read the brief best-practice tips at the top of the recruiting forum
[2] Scared money don't make money.

Forums: 
DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.

Comments

It's JUNE OV SZN

Yeah, let's get the summer fire pit going πŸ”₯

Expecting at least 1 in state commit this month.

Hoping a certain RVA DB makes the call, but he's been close to the vest recently.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Any relation to the Mizell who played at UVA?

edit: nope! Mizell vs "Smoke" Mizzell who was at UVA

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Holy shit what an epic nickname: Boogeyman!!!

We also need to recruit noted athlete, John Wick, AKA "Baba Yaga"

VT '10--US Citizen; (804) Virginian By Birth; (210) Texan By the Grace of God.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

I also root for: The Keydets, TexAggies, NY Giants, NY Rangers, and Braves.

247 should give an extra star for nicknames like that. Prime Time ⭐️

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

1. This is why I love this site.

2. The Boogeyman is an awesome nickname. Has anyone else had it in sports besides in the WWE?

Bob: What would ya say ya do here?

Brad: I already told you! I iron out the minutiae so Justin doesn't have to. I have people skills dammit! What the hell is wrong with you people?

One of the baddest mammajammas to ever play in the NHL was Derek "The Boogeyman" Boogaard. He was one of the most feared goons in the league. At 6'7 265lbs, he was a brick house. Unfortunately, his CTE was really bad and he died of an accidental overdose at 28 while recovering from, you guessed it, a concussion.

Totally forgot about Boogaard. Very sad ending,

Bob: What would ya say ya do here?

Brad: I already told you! I iron out the minutiae so Justin doesn't have to. I have people skills dammit! What the hell is wrong with you people?

This is effing hilarious and deserves to go plaid, in my humble opinion.

People will probably bash this, and I know it hasn't been long yet... but our recruiting right now is no better than Fuente's abysmal recruiting, the only difference is now the G5 level players were getting are from VA and NC. We really need to step it up or VT football will remain on the decline. I expected more from this staff even in the short period of time it's been.

Go for it

Expecting a staff to assess the current roster, rebuild recruiting relationships, get people on board, and turn a corner in one recruiting cycle isn't realistic.

(add if applicable) /s

^^^this. The 2024 class is when we should realistically make a jump in our recruiting as the staff was already behind on 2023 class and is focusing building relationships with 2024 recruits. 🀞

"Give me a fuΒ’king beer", Anonymous Genius

Agreed. If there is no improvement in the 2024 class then we can definitely get frustrated. The 2023 class is one where I'm hoping the floor of the class is raised, but I don't expect many (or any really) big time blue chip commits.

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

So what you're saying is ... 2024 is our year πŸ˜€ ?*ducks*

247 has our '23 class at #22. Which isn't great but is definitely better than #50. If a couple croots get a point bump (which is possible for a couple) it could jump into the teens. Jury definitely still out on this one. But its a nice step up trajectory from '22 and builds to '24.

That ranking is based off of sheer volume. We currently don't have a high average recruit ranking. We are definitely being propped up by the number of recruits we have.

Agreed, but I do think a few of them will get a bump after this season. Really TBD. I wouldn't say its a total throwaway class.

It is also only June. Visit season is upon us now and the staff can get guys on campus and start working on them.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Overall class rankings at this point aren't very indicative of the actual class potential. Class sizes are still very small so anyone with one or two high commits or an already large class (or decently sized) will be higher than they will end up. My guess is that this class for VT will end up with a similar ranking and overall recruit rating as last year's.

But I still agree that expecting a huge jump in this year's recruiting class was unrealistic. The 4 star guys that we'd like to start getting have been visiting other schools for years and our guys just got their foot in the door with them 6 months ago.

Edit: not sure if that counts because I added a little something else, but screw it i'll drink anyway

Even the '22 class was a decent step up from '21. Pry isn't walking into a championship situation. It is going to be a long haul to rebuild all those relationship pipelines. But tbh, Fuente wasn't a horrible recruiter. We got plenty of 4*s under him. Our issue was he had no idea how to handle them when he got them.

I know this isn't the best comparison due to outside factors but Riley seems to be doing okay at USC. My point is if our staff isn't embracing the new ways of how "college" football is done then we're gonna be a bottom feeder in college football very shortly

Go for it

This is a joke right? Yes Riley is doing well at USC and if VT had the same sort of resources and advantages that USC has I'm sure Pry would be doing just as well.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

It's not a joke at all. Are we not shooting to be as competitive as possible. I guess we should shoot to be out Wake and Syracuse then or just close the program down all together because how can we ever compete with what USC has..

Go for it

I mean I'm shooting to be a billionaire but I'm also realistic.

USC a blueblood school with Lincoln Riley a top 5 coach in college football vs VT and a first year HC...not much to compare on there

(add if applicable) /s

I know USC is in a great area with good boosters. But since Carroll left they've done nothing. I get comparing VT to USC isn't the same, but to act like no coaches can come into places and immediately get the ball rolling is false. Riley isn't the only example just the first that came to mind.

Go for it

USC is in the middle LA (great weather) and right next to Hollywood (FAME). Their head coach is young, charismatic, and innovative. He's had 31 draft picks in 5 years. USC allegedly has one of the most competitive NIL programs.

EDIT: Also wanted to add that USC has had multiple top 5 classes throughout their existence. VT has had one top 20 class in the modern recruiting era, and zero top 15 classes. Expecting a new coach to come in and sign a top 20 or even top 22-25 class means your expecting a new coach to walk in and sign one of the best classes in VT history. I just don't think that's reasonable.

to act like no coaches can come into places and immediately get the ball rolling is false. Riley isn't the only example just the first that came to mind.

Can you give an example of a coach who has done this at a program similar to VT (not a blueblood, not new-money boosters). The only program I can think of that has done anything similar to USC now is Mel Tucker at Mich St, but Mich St at the time (two years ago) was better positioned than VT is now IMO (in terms of program funding and brand name)

Twitter me

Don't forget that existing roster might also be a factor in attracting more talent also. If a highly rated player wants to have a chance at a championship, they're more likely to want to go to a school that already has a lot of talent on it. If they just want to show out for NFL scouts, then maybe they'll go to a school without a lot of talent.

We don't have nearly as good a roster as what USC had when Riley got there, so potentially easier to get other good players to go.

The coach in question was also the head coach at OKLAHOMA.

I'm a fan of Brent Pry but comparing Lincoln Riley to a career DC from PSU is just...not applicable.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

The list I came up with that I thought did pretty good relatively quickly would be Tucker MSU good call for sure, Shane at USCE, Mack at UNC as DC pointed out, Franklin at PSU, Frost at Nebraska, Chip at UCLA. Just some examples where I feel the staff may have hit the ground running a bit quicker in terms of recruiting only, obviously we can't judge the on field yet. Some of those schools may be considered above par but those are the teams we should be competing with for recruits if we want to be a serious program in my opinion

Go for it

Interestingly enough, Pry's first two classes (again, the second of which is incomplete) look a lot like Mel Tuckers:

Coach First Class Year First Class Rank Second Class Rank Third Class Rank
Mel Tucker 2020 46 (transfer rank = 220) 47 (transfer rank = 20) 25 (transfer rank = 15)
Shane Beamer 2020 56 (transfer rank = 12) 23 (transfer rank = 9)
James Franklin 2014 24 14 20
Scott Frost 2018 23 18 (transfer rank = 16) 20 (transfer rank = 67)
Chip Kelly 2018 19 44 (transfer rank = 112) 31 (transfer rank = 26)
Mack Brown 2019 31 (transfer rank = 60) 16 (transfer rank = 222) 14 (transfer rank = 38)
Brent Pry 2021 49 (transfer rank = 41) [In progress] 44 (transfer rank = 67)

Twitter me

Thank you for this awesome list, I appreciate the hard work. I guess Tucker was more under the radar pickups then I thought as well, I know he did really well in the portal too.

Go for it

I beg to differ on at least one point. Tucker became the head coach on Feb. 12, 2020 - after the regular Signing day. That means he had absolutely zero impact on the 2020 class, so I'd argue that his first class was the 2021 class. Pry was brought in before the early signing period and did a lot of work to keep that class intact, but didn't recruit any of them. I feel like the "first" class can be very subjective and I'd suggest normalizing it to the first class a coach had from the previous signing day until the following one to recruit. Since Tucker was only about a week after, I think the 2021 class would be his first and Pry's would be the 2023 class (and as others have pointed out, it's WAY too early to tell how the 2023 class will shape up for anyone and even then, NIL and class size waiver will wreak havoc on this class and next one as well).

Not sure about the other coaches on the list though (hiring date vs. what I suggested would be the "first" class). Some coaches may have advantages as well, such as if they were coaching in the same area so already have recruiting relationships near the school, schools that traditionally recruit well regardless of coach (ND, FSU, other blue bloods), so comparisons without that or other context don't seem like good measures.

I agree that 2023 is Pry's first class, I refer to refer to classes like VT 2022 to be the transition class. Looking at Funete when he came, he added Evans to his transition class, but the rest were less largely recruited by Beamer. Pry had involvement with the portal, but not a ton with the high school recruits. So while the new coaches do work to keep those classes intact, they didn't do the work to get their initial commitment.

I will sort of/mostly agree here. I did not look at what month coaches were hired, or where their hiring date was relative to ESD/NSD; just the year they were hired.

Tucker became the head coach on Feb. 12, 2020 - after the regular Signing day. That means he had absolutely zero impact on the 2020 class, so I'd argue that his first class was the 2021 class.

re: tucker - you are 100% correct. Miss by me.

Pry was brought in before the early signing period and did a lot of work to keep that class intact, but didn't recruit any of them.

re: Pry - He deserves some credit for keeping three 4-stars from VA & MD (Givens, Cam, Gosnel) in the class. Not sure who their primary recruiters were, but unless it was JC Price, or they were tight with Prioleau, then Pry had to build a relationship out of nothing.

I feel like the "first" class can be very subjective and I'd suggest normalizing it to the first class a coach had from the previous signing day until the following one to recruit.

Not sure about the other coaches on the list though (hiring date vs. what I suggested would be the "first" class). Some coaches may have advantages as well, such as if they were coaching in the same area so already have recruiting relationships near the school, schools that traditionally recruit well regardless of coach (ND, FSU, other blue bloods), so comparisons without that or other context don't seem like good measures.

It's tough. There's very few apples-to-apples comparisons in the sport. Tbh, I think the closest analog to VT is TCU, but we're 'ahead' of them, if that makes sense? But yes, everyone of these situations is quite different, which makes it difficult to determine actual expectations for Pry's first full recruiting class.

Twitter me

And I realize the point was initially trying to compare us to others for metrics for comparison to see if Pry is performing to the standards we expect. At this point, I feel like he's had a lot of challenges, and he's overcoming hurdles. I've felt like from the beginning I don't want to hold Pry to any expectations this year. I know it's tough to do since we all want to get better, but to some extent I feel like we need to trust the process. It's clear he and the staff are working hard to build relationships in the footprint and from what we've seen/heard, also seems like we're going to at the very least get a tougher on-field product. Seems like good signals for the process.

One way or another, seems WAY too early for Chicken Little/Fuente comparisons/predictions. I think we should save those for December (February?) signing day.

We are not going to be a bottom-feeder anytime soon. Poor recruiting could lose us games, but we have too much money/too large and loyal a fan base to truly become a "bottom-feeder" in the near future.

That said I am more worried about how effectively we're spending our new resources. Is giving every position coach a 40% raise really the best way to improve on field results? I'm not so sure.

Is giving every position coach a 40% raise really the best way to improve on field results?

It's not like we're just giving out 40% raises just because. Presumably, that extra 40% should get us better coaches.

Twitter me

*Should* but that's not true in this case. We're paying most of these coaches far above what the market price would be for them. We even doubled some of the guys salaries from their previous stops.

Rudolph is the only one you could say we went out and poached - and it's a great hire he deserves every penny. But just about everyone else (besides maybe Bowen) is getting far beyond what would be an expected raise between jobs.

Edit - I will add the 40% is just a number I threw out there guessing how much they're getting over market value. The raises for the staff ranged from 10%-205%, with most of them being around 80%. That's just unheard of in any industry, and likely unsustainable.

I don't think you are aware of how the market for good P5 coaches functions. If someone shows potential you pay them something in the ballpark of the going rate for a successful coach in that position. That way you have their respect and have a chance of retaining them if they turn out to be an excellent performer that other teams try and poach. Obviously experience matters as Smith and Rudolph make more than Mines and Prioleau

Not to mention a large proportion of our staff are receiving promotions to their positions here at VT. Promotions usually come with significant salary increases. And if you're poaching a coach from a team at your level you usually have to give them a raise to make the move...

Promotions:
- Pry P5 DC to P5 HC
- Bowen P5/NFL assistant to P5 OC
- Marve P5 assistant to P5 DC
- Glenn G5 assistant to P5 assistant
- Prioleau P5 staff to P5 assistant
- Quinn Div2 HC to P5 assistant
- Mines G5 assistant to P5 assistant

"Laterals" (that may come with more responsibilities)
Rudolph P5 assistant to P5 assistant
Holt P5 assistant to P5 assistant
Jones P5 assistant to P5 assistant
Price P5 assistant to P5 assistant

When someone makes 75k in a non-coaching role and gets hired as a P5 assistant, of course they are going to get their salary doubled or more. #1 the market for P5 coaches says they're worth at least that much. and #2, their workload is also going up significantly. Same goes for a coach moving up from FCS or G5...

and ultimately the salary sets an expectation. If performance tracks to salary do you want a 100k assistant or a 500k assistant?

I dont understand, the only raise VT gave was to Price, who stood up infront of the entire tech community took on a roll in head coach and got us to a bowl game and an emotional win over UVA.

Every other person is a new hire. I don't care what they are making before, we are paying them to coach at VT, there should be the expectation for top 25 teams. If we don't pay like a top 25 team (which we haven't been) then how can tou expect that?

If you think we pay any coach too much then you should still be on the Fuente bandwagon as he knocked it out of the park for wins based on pay. Look at Brad Cornelson's offensive numbers compare to other P5 schools. He was one of the lowest paid P5 coordinators and had a couple of good offensive scoring years. Also he wasn't dumb enough to throw it to a left tackle on 3rd and long and did so at 2/3rds the cost.

Paying a guy more doesn't make him a better coach. I understand we are paying more to attract and keep new coaching talent, but it has to be within reason. A lot of these guys are unproven, in fact most of them are (and I like the hires).

We just raised all that money and a few hundred grand can go a long way as far as recruiting budget and lower level staff hires, I just want to be sure that all of the money is being used effectively and not being spent just to spend.

If there's some statistical analysis that shows us being around or just above the average for similar teams then I'll happily concede the point, but from a sanity standpoint you generally don't need to double a guy's 6-figure salary to get him to take a better job. Especially when they're unproven.

You're missing so many points, I almost don't know where to begin. I'll start with them being unproven. If you want a proven coach at the P5 level, the type of job they're going to leave for is big money at an SEC or blue blood, not us. So we have to take coaches that are, to some extent, not proven. Then, you pay them market value for the type of program we want to have. If we lowball them because they're coming from somewhere else, that makes it more likely they'll just leave for a higher paying job if they prove they're worth more (would you feel ANY loyalty to a company that lowballed you on salary based on you coming from a smaller company, given that everyone else at most other similar companies were paid a lot more? Doubtful - you'd probably look at them as a stepping stone to another company that would pay you what you thought you were worth from the beginning.).

Look at how many coaches we lost over the past few years because we DIDN'T pay more (or I guess can make that assumption when they leave for SEC schools (Jeff Grimes and Torrian Gray (who went to the NFL, but then went to FL and USCe after, which tells me he may very well have stayed for more money))).

As someone pointed out above, it was really only the coordinators who weren't proven, and even then, the DC was partially because Pry was going to run it until he felt the new DC was on his feet. But you still gotta pay a guy who is a DC more than you would a position coach, so that's more. And Bowen was coming from the NFL, and some of the inexperience Pry mitigated by having experienced guys who are the passing and running game coordinators. Which sounds like more responsibility than just a position coach, so that would be more money.

You're also missing that there was an additional pool of money for staff beyond the coaching salary pool. Did you notice how many staff Pry has hired in support roles? If not, you should go check it out. It's way bigger than what Fuente had, and so seems like Pry is setting us up to be a big boy program, not what we had before. So not like salary kept us from hiring additional staff.

In the end, I suggest waiting to see how recruiting and the on-field product go before slinging around that people are overpaid.

Username doesn't check out.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Unless of course you are Mack Brown or Marcus Freeman

Marcus Freeman hardly has anything to turn around and yeah if you're a national championship winning coach that's been around the game forever with a rockstar recruiting class that will help in your first year*

*my not translate to on field results.

We're working with a first year HC and a VT program that has taken a nose dive going to take awhile to get some confidence back on the recruiting trail.

(add if applicable) /s

I hear what you are saying- my point was it took Freeman 3 seconds to "build relationships" and Brown was selling a turd and got guys head to head vs Fuente. I can't believe a hoops icon helps you recruit football that much

Brown had won a Natty before as well as already had been HC at UNC. Notre Dame could make a Bobble-head doll the HC and there would likely still be 5 star guys who'd want to go there. Having a new HC with Tech as the landing spot isn't exactly the same as either of those.

This is a gross generalization.

You need a splash bobble in that situation to keep the boosters engaged:
Limited-Run Tom Seaver;
Mariners-era Ken Griffey Jr.;
Maybe Vin Scully...

Or you roll the dice on an outside-the-box* hire that sparks the imagination of the fan base:
The Beatles (John HC Paul OC George DC Ringo ST);
Babe Ruth as a Dodger;
Jayson Werth with the real-hair beard??

But let's be real here - you don't get this job done with just any old BHD. There's levels to this shit.

*NOTE: taking these coaches out of their boxes drastically reduces their value

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Freeman and Brown both had a ton of existing connections at their schools. ND recruits itself in the midwest. Mack Brown hired a lot of great recruiters. Also, Mack had a class or two outside the top 30. It wasn't like he was recruiting top 10 classes on Day 1 at UNC.

Twitter me

If it doesn't, why do they have recruits take photos wearing Jordans and the jumpman logo is so prominent in their promotion?

I'm genuinely curious, but what happened to the concept of new coach year 1 recruiting bump? (First Year Bump Ref) Is that still a thing? And if so, why doesn't it apply to VT?

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

I don't know if there have been changes because of the new early signing day, and transfer rules, but we should wait until the end of the cycle to make any judgements. It's not even summer yet.

You can't count last year as Pry's first class. He just kept people on board. This is Pry's first class, and still REALLY early, so need to wait and see what happens.

the more noteworthy leaps were typically seen after coaching changes at historically successful programs

- keep that in mind though.

Also, this year is going to be screwy because of the class size waiver, so rankings may be skewed even if our class is better than it had been in previous years.

Some new coaches manage to do it - under arguably worse conditions.

Name some, please.

Tell me about the first-time P5 head coaches who came into a program at a similar level to VT, during a similar low point (or "arguably worse", as you said) and had instant success, program turnaround, return to national relevance, precipitous uptick in recruiting, etc. I'd be genuinely interested to hear the examples you have in mind.

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Nothing like adding a half dozen extra qualifiers to considerably narrow the field and rationalize the results so far.

For the record, I don't have a problem with the recruiting thus far under Pry. But I'm also not blowing smoke to myself that recruiting is going to appreciably change - better or worse - under Pry unless a couple of generous VT grads suddenly invent world-changing widgets.

Expecting a staff to assess the current roster, rebuild recruiting relationships, get people on board, and turn a corner in one recruiting cycle isn't realistic.

ThisπŸ‘†is the comment that you replied toπŸ‘‡thusly:

Some new coaches manage to do it - under arguably worse conditions.

I just listed some of Pry's current "conditions".
They're not "qualifiers".
They're exactly the sort of obstacles that a new coach would have to overcome if the program he's joining is a P5 program in the state of disarray ours is.
They're the "arguably worse" conditions you allude to in your own comment.

Since conditions here are pretty bad, I listed some. Specific to VT, but not unique to VT. You assert other new coaches have managed to handle the usual pitfalls of regime change - and under "worse conditions" than Pry & Co.. Okay. Who are those coaches? I read your comment and was stumped. Fill us in!

You make it sound like I somehow changed the question or something. Maybe I misunderstood. Which "worse conditions" were you referring to?

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

So I'm just responding for arguments' sake - but Sam Pittman has worked miracles at Arkansas. Morris left that program in a terrible spot (I think they went 15 games without a win over an FBS team?), and Pittman went 3-7 in 2020 against an all SEC schedule, snapping a 20 game conference losing streak. In year 2, they went 9-4, 4-4 in the SEC.

Probably the best turnaround in recent history that I can think of.

It would be pretty ridiculous to ask/expect this out of Pry (just because it's really hard to do, even for a great coach).

Twitter me

There you go. Good shit

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Looking at some coaches that have been viewed as huge successes:
1) Matt Campbell - really has not had recruiting successes. He as steadily improved the recruiting but his best class is barely above our worst. But he is winning so who cares.
2) Matt Rhule - minor improvement in recruiting his first year, his 2nd was again barely better than our worst class. They are in Texas which you can't go a mile without tripping over a highly rated recruit.
3) Dave Doeren - took 5 years to turn recruiting around to recruit at a level that we might accept as a down year (around the level of our last years class which was for a lame duck coach)
4) Mel Tucker - This year's class, 2nd year, was a good jump, but for a team that basically took the mantle from VT for 10 wins a year in a better conference barely to out recruit Rutgers, well still has work to do.
5) PJ Fleck - he started with a bad mess recruiting wise. He raised it instantly, but has has 1 class better than last years class for VT and hasn't shown any growth, it basically flatlined (minor regression). Going back to the Rutgers thing, Minnesota should be better than they are in my opinion.

These coaches are winning by coaching not recruiting. I don't know who came into a 6-6 team , recruited out of their mind and won the first year.

Good shit! Appreciate the legwork.

I agree for the most part with your assessments - but I do think that there's a delineation to be made: as much as VT Football aspires to be a top-tier program, there's a big difference between rebuilding the NC States, Minnesotas and ISUs of the world than coming in and taking the wheel at MSU or Baylor or, as the commenter above wisely remembered, Arkansas.

I would put us in the same file as the first group. Gotta crawl before you walk, and Virginia Tech needs to take care of basic things - filling the roster with actual P5 talent, repairing crootin' relationships in VA/DMV, re-engaging a once-rabid fan base - first. The three latter examples are programs with built-in advantages: SEC clout or historical success/pedigree or a rich local talent pool - and, most importantly, big donor bags. To use the Arkansas example shared above: Sam Pittman has done a great job, but he was also more institutionally positioned on Day 1 to succeed than Brent Pry is.

Reading your list (to which I'd add Norvell, maybe Bielema at Illinois? Leach? Drinkwitz? Neal Brown @ WVU? Locksley? Satterfield? I dunno it's late ha), I'd say it's pretty clear that getting in and getting a program turned around is really hard, takes a few years at minimum, and often doesn't happen... at all. Which was why I replied to marcb2 in the first place. I'm sure there's an example out there, but it's an outlier - especially if we are talking about a program in the current state in which Virginia Tech finds itself.

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Bielema I had looked at already for another post, he hasn't changed recruiting so far. And in the same post I mentioned Drinkwitz as one of the few that have had a substantial year 1 recruiting bump. I find it hard to relate VT to the SEC though just because they money and competition are so different. I would like to point out that drinkwitz hire cane or of no where. He has 1 year of HC experience. Had 2 years of quality control experience in the SEC. His only P5 on field coaching experience was 3 years at NC State. Mizzou knocked that hire out if the park some how and I'm sure lots of fans hated it at the time.

WVU recruiting hasn't changed with Brown being there. Leach hasn't recruited anywhere close to his predecessors ( which it must be late if your talking about Mike Leech recruiting/s).

Scott Satterfield hasn't had a class as good as the one before he got there. He has increased his class every year but that first year was a big enough drop that he is still catching up.

Norvell isn't back to the Willlie Taggart Recruiting level yet. But like Satterfield slowly increasing the rankings every year.

Mizzou knocked that hire out if the park some how and I'm sure lots of fans hated it at the time.

I'm still suspect of the Drinkwitz hire. That said, I'm not sure what expectations are at Mizzou... I don't think b2b SECCG appearances will ever happen again. I think Drink's ceiling is probably 8/9 wins, 4/5 conference wins.

Leach hasn't recruited anywhere close to his predecessors

Leach has never recruited well, but he gets his guys and exceeds expectations with them.

Twitter me

Mizzou isn't known for its football history, those 2 SEC division titles came during a very weak time for the east division. 8-9 wins would be great, but that program was in shambles a few years ago and they are winning. They are recruiting very well. Time will tell but he elevated both the wins and recruiting in short time.

I don't know who came into a 6-6 team , recruited out of their mind and won the first year.

Mack Brown, Scott Frost, James Franklin all recruited pretty good after a 6-6 (or worse) year. These coaches' best seasons were 8 wins (COVID year), 5 wins, and 11 wins + a conference championship (respectively).

I think you're hitting on something - coaches picking up 6-6 teams typically fall into one of two situations:

  • There is a reasonable amount of talent on the roster, but there are culture issues (AKA previous coach couldn't run a P5 team) - in these situations, a coach can get quick results by implementing a new culture
  • The team is void of talent - coach needs to hit the transfer portal/recruiting hard; probably not a quick turnaround
  • The team is both void of talent and has culture issues - coach needs to hit the transfer portal/recruiting hard while purging players who aren't a fit; definitely not a quick turnaround

It's been said ad nauseum, but in recruiting class #1, we're looking for (1) a cohesive strategy, (2) a balance roster, (3) groundwork for future classes. In season #1, we're looking for (1) players not giving up, (2) players to show they know the fundamentals.

If Pry can do these 5 things, we'll be in a position to take a big step forward in the future.

Twitter me

I wouldn't say Mack Brown has been successful at UNC, he has recruited well, but he isn't winning tons if games.

I mean... since he left (after the 97 season), there's only been two UNC teams to finish the season ranked, and one of them is the 2020 team Mack coached.

At the end of the day, coaches need to sell hope. Right now, Mack can sell a present that is in line with UNC's historical performance, and a future that is brighter than ever before.

Twitter me

That team was 3 hope and prayers away from a losing record

And yet they still played in an NY6 bowl game so who cares how close they were to not being there?

2016 Clemson was about 6 snaps away from losing 4-5 games that year. Do they not have the national title trophy?

That NY6 bowl was a sham fluke.

Sure let's say it's 100% a "sham fluke." No recruits care or think about that at all unless they happen to be a huge UNC hater already. To them it was a good season and UNC recruiters can say they played in the Orange Bowl in 2020.

The expression I heard on Letterkenny (and Shoresy) is: "they don't ask how, they ask how many." Refers to wins and championships. Ugly or close wins don't matter if you get them. Clemson could have won every game they played in 2016 by one point and they'd still have the trophy. We can complain or split hairs all we want, still don't got a trophy. And you're right, recruits aren't going to go back and look at the results of all the games that year and think to themselves, "well they almost didn't go to the Orange Bowl" - they're just going to do comparisons (UNC played in the Orange Bowl recently, what has Tech done?). When you do have performances on your side, you don't have to sell hope as much. Right now I think we're selling hope and a plan to recruits.

Recruits love Mack Brown, always have, but he took a sure fire 1st round QB and got him drafted in what the 4th round? He will max out at 8 wins and still out recruit everyone.

I mean I guess they should hire Fuente next if they like Mack Browns record.

Wow - that's some interesting perspective. Not sure Pry and his staff are the kinda guys who would use negative recruiting, but you just gave them some excellent material if they would...

I mean it's Al Groh all over again. That 2003 team had tons of NFL talent. Pro bowl type of talent.

Also negative recruiting is never good, it has too high a probability to back fire. Also it's really had to bad mouth Mack from a colleague standpoint. However, VT is known for putting 3 star recruits in the NFL, through player development. We put 4 star recruits into the first round. Showing that VT makes you better is way better than making some one else look bad.

Yeah, I'm not a fan - probably not clear from what I said, just good material for it. I don't like negative stuff like that (or smear campaigns in politics) - I like letting the positives do the lifting.

I do have a lot of animosity towards UNCheat, so maybe someone else can use that against good ole Mack πŸ˜‚

Recruits love the Jumpman brand and putting blue Jordans on their instagram. They also love UNC Basketball. Mack Brown? Not so much.

I continue to be perplexed by the love of UNC on this board. The amount of negative recruiting they do towards Virginia Tech, you would think that should piss off most Hokie fans, but for some reason, some of you eat it up.

For a few years now I think you've been confusing "love of UNC on this board" with "realistic outlook on what UNC are doing on the recruiting trail and how it negatively impacts us given our significant recruiting overlap in terms of territory and key targets." The latter has proven to be a true during Mack's time so far at UNC. It ultimately doesn't matter if it's leading to wins on the field for UNC, because those recruits we are losing to them are delaying/making it more difficult for us to return to the level we all want to see VT reach again. Do I think UNC massively underperformed last year given their talent level? Absolutely. It didn't stop them from landing the 11th ranked recruiting class, including head to head wins over Clemson and UGA for 5* DT Travis Shaw and landing 5* OT Zach Rice out of VA. They also landed 4 more top 10 recruits out of Virginia. We all want to see that trend change back in our favor.

UNC is almost certainly one of the most universally hated teams by VT fans at this point, particularly the ones who spend time online like we do. Over the last 4-5 years I'd say they have slid into a comfortable top 3 "most disliked" spot for many VT fans alongside the usual suspects of UVA and Miami.

It ultimately doesn't matter if it's leading to wins on the field for UNC, because those recruits we are losing to them are delaying/making it more difficult for us to return to the level we all want to see VT reach again.

Bingo - UNC recruits are recruits VT is not getting. They may only beat us on the field 25% of the time (which is too high, but I digress), but taking recruits away from us hurts us when we play GT, BC, NCst, etc. Keeping those recruits at VT makes it more likely for us to win the division.

Edit to expand: Keeping those recruits enables us to build depth.

Twitter me

Don't forget Pry had to actually get rid of some guys (at least probably have a hard conversation about how much or little playing time they'd get), especially the 500 running backs we had, to make room for they guys that we need.

Also, Pry spent December to February securing the previous class and working on transfers, especially at QB (the 2 QBs we got in the portal already feels like a big recruiting win to me). Then he couldn't even evaluate what we had until spring practice, which he said he expected a bunch of guys to fall out from. So it's been about a month and a half since the spring game, which is about when I'd expect the positions of need to be identified and begin targeting. That's not long to get recruiting going.

I'd be willing to bet most other coaches we're comparing Pry to didn't have 10 effing RBs on the roster when they got there. It's gotta be harder to recruit when the roster you inherit is a shitshow.

I wonder if at some point a complete shitshow is actually easier. If you need every position then you get probably aim for 1QB, 1RB, 3WR, 1TE, 5OL, 4DL, 3LB, 4DB, and the next 4 best players for you class of 25.

It's much harder when you have holes you don't know because you haven't seen everyone and some might have been sitting behind a player that got drafted so you really don't know. Also, if you have too many scholarships and your taking a small class then you need to be surgical.

Some rosters, even as shitshows, may be easier than others - to your point. I think our challenge is stuff like having so many RBs where you actually have to get rid of some of them to make room for the positions you need.

Pry's early commits seem to follow with your numbers for linemen as well as Pry's commitment to winning the line of scrimmage.

See my comments about position rank in the May thread. Right now we are doing a lot better (to the tune of 20 spots higher) on average position rank thank Fuente's classes. And this class hasn't totally fleshed out yet. It's primarily been linemen. I expect our average to go down as we bring in skill position players. But, I expect it to level off around the Fuente average for this year. Then we should expect to see a boost next year.

Throw the numbers out...I'll say it- Fuente was a shit recruiter. Didn't know how to recruit a HS QB for his system, didn't know how to recruit a P5 running back, Didn't know how to close on top rated guys considering VT, and didn't recruit Virginia - in fact he shunned it. Sucked as a recruiter- don't care about the rankings. A great HC would have recognized that and hired coaches that COULD recruit and get great prospects in front of him to simply close the deal. Pry will be better is he simply rolls out of bed and cozy's up to HS coaches in Virginia.

Pry will be better is he simply rolls out of bed and cozy's up to HS coaches in Virginia.

"Nah - stay in bed, make it a coach's wife, and don't limit yourself to VA" -Galen Scott

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

I understand your frustration with the level of commits. I think the real test will be is to see if Pry gets players that actually make a difference by getting on the field. I think the last regime got players- sometimes having 10 stacked in line at WR and RB, and only a small number ever making a play on the field.

Hopefully Pry and staff can evaluate players that can help the team, and not have a majority on the sideline that will never see the field. How he does in year 3 on will show if he can win at Tech. I think 4 years is sufficient to see what a coach can do in today's game with the portal. We do know that 6 years is too damn long

I think people are misconstruing my criticisms for rooting against the guy. I love Pry and I hope it works out, I just wanna see improvement in the team. It doesn't happen over night but when we're pulling in OL from North Cross on a scholly that has me extremely worried.

Go for it

Rudolph gets the longest leash out of any current coach, if you ask me

I believe Rudolph utilized reigns, not a leash.

I also hope he utilizes a sleigh opposed to the traditional sled.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Hannes Hammer moved from Germany last August and has played one year of high school ball here. Any historic reputation of his high school has little bearing on him. TKP: complain in May about not finding underrated diamonds in the rough any more. Complain in June about closing early on someone who has a chance to be an underrated diamond in the rough.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Dude may do fine but nothing about North Cross tells me yeah this guy is D1 material let alone P5. I just hope it's not a height, weight, and potential based on film they've seen of the terrible competition they play.

Go for it

On the other hand his circumstances aren't the same as his potential

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I can tell you that with this recruit if you look at his film he is different. At his size to be able to move the way he does is what makes him a player that can be successful with just a little time. This kids ceiling is high and with a proven OL coach it makes it easier to develop those types of kids.

Were you also worried about Darrisaw?

You also cannot ignore the 5000 lb Gorilla in the room that has essentially completely changed the Recruiting paradigm in the past 2 years....NIL.

Let's be honest, most prospects with 4β˜† or 5β˜† next to their name are expecting NIL money at this point. While I don't care for Lane Kiffin in the slightest, his candor in speaking about this was appreciated. At this point, if you don't come to the table with something for these top guys, you aren't likely to even sniff a Visit.

And while VT is clearly working to create their own "Collective" (read: slush fund), we are already behind and have nowhere near the resources to compete against larger universities and SEC schools where the money flows freely (at least for now).

So while I do think that Pry and Co. have a massively improved Recruiting strategy over the prior Staff, they also aren't on the same playing field anymore. I do expect improvement in 2024 but I think it's going to be gradual and most of our realistic prospect are going to be mid-3β˜† players who we hope develop into tremendous players on the field (and then are tampered with and leave for multimillion dollar NIL offers by USC, OSU,TX A&M, ect.).

We are not "behind" on the NIL concept. Whit is very much on top of it. Not having billions in booster money or bag men is different than being "behind".

How would you characterize it? Saying we aren't going to be able to compete because we don't have the same amount of money is arguably "behind" them. If you rank schools by money able to be paid, then we're lower - that's just semantics. The point is, regardless of what you call it, top players are going to be more likely to go to schools that pay them more, and that ain't us.

I don't understand you. I remember in the transfer thread you were yelling about how we shouldn't expect highly ranked kids to come to VT yet here in the recruiting thread you are expecting more from the staff? Which is it?

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

When did I ever say we shouldn't expect highly ranked kids to come to VT? Whatever I guess y'all are okay with softball being your new number 1 sport. ✌🏼

Go for it

I think there is a key difference between saying we don't conceptually have a good NIL plan based on the resources we have vs. saying we don't have a good plan because we don't have enough resources (aka money pool). This distinction matters.

Part of success for VT in NIL is maximizing what is available to them vs. trying to measure success vs. USC or Texas' raw resources.

You can only sell what you have and many here are suggesting we sell what we don't have and that's what DC is saying.

I would suggest a good analogy for what DC is saying is pound for pound strength vs raw bench press numbers. We want to be pound for pound as good as possible in NIL recognizing we may never be heavyweights in just that area (that's not saying we can't win - comments are specific to NIL as a factor in success).

I think the answer here is it's way too early to tell with this class.

If we continue with the average caliber player in this class currently, then I'll agree with you, but there's no evidence that will be the case, you can never extrapolate a whole class based on the first few commitments.

I think a major issue here is that we need to mend broken relationships in VA, and that will mean offering mid-lower level players that may not perform. On one hand, by proximity, we have to recruit VA to the best of our ability. On the other, the quality of VA players has been slowly declining, and if we want to win with a lot of VA players, we have to do it with the highly rated or choice guys (not necessarily the same thing).

I expect that if we don't get highly rated guys within our radius we'll fill in the gaps with the portal and mid 3* VA guys, rather than mid-high 3* out of state guys like Fuente did (and had to do).

It's June 2nd. Can we lock this thread down so it doesn't kill this topic? This feels tangential at best and off topic at worst

You need to take off the maroon and orange glasses. I know it's easy to think if we just change the head guy, recruits will come running back to the VT program we all know and have loved for years as fans/alumni. However, the rising seniors this year were in first grade the last time VT football won 10+ games and played in a major bowl. We have spent now a decade mired in compete mediocrity. The decline started with Beamer being unable to adapt and hanging on too long, and with Fuente we hired a coach on the surface who seemed like a rising star but didn't have the personality or perspective in order to effectively run a P5 program. Unless a recruit has a major connection to VT or grew up a huge fan, it's going to take time to mend relationships and build back bridges.

Pry has a monumental task ahead of him. There is no way you can expect him to come in and immediately sign a class full of blue chip recruits. That's not even factoring in the new recruiting landscape and NIL which we have a major hurdle in overcoming. The program's brand needs a major overhaul. I think we have the right guy to get it done, but this will be a multi-year rebuild. If you expect VT to come out and reclaim their past glory right off the bat, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Appreciate the fit and personality we have in Pry, root for him and his staff, and pull for our team. It will take all of us to get the snowball rolling again.

However, the rising seniors this year were in first grade the last time VT football won 10+ games and played in a major bowl.

Well thanks, now I feel old and I'm only 32 lol. Didn't expect to be reminded that time keeps on ticking at 9am on a Monday, but here we are.

As an almost-47-year-old, eat my shorts.

"Eat My Shorts", incidentally, was a catchphrase popularized by an animated series from the 1980s called The Simpsons. See, the show erroneously focused on the eldest son, Bart, for the first few seasons and - -

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

We were probably at Tech around the same time - it was a good time to be a Hokie. I was in Lane the first time we beat Miami - holy crap was that something to see!

We were definitely there at the same time - I was at that Miami game. Scooped up a big clod of turf when I got down to the field and wore it like a wig everywhere we went. I got Druck as Funk that night

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

That's awesome! I remember guys throwing ropes over the uprights to pull them down, thinking "who brings rope to football games (especially since I don't think anyone thought we'd win)." And also remember guys losing the handle on the ropes when they had the uprights pulled down about 3/4 of the way and those effers popping back up and thinking that must have been someone's senior engineering project πŸ˜‚ I was a cadet and they told us the consequences would be severe if we rushed the field, so we just cheered like crazy for the guys pulling down the uprights!

This post can't have enough legs.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Is it sad that this has more legs than the Anne Hathaway one? It seems like it to me πŸ˜‚

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

57 here- I graduated VT before you were born lol.

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

And I graduated VT before you were out of high school.

Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in bad humor.

via GIPHY" target="_blank">

via GIPHY

The circle of life!

From the 2018 VT-uva game-"This is when LEGENDS are made!"

I used to watch VT throttle VMI in Victory Stadium at Thanksgiving.

...with spirits true and faithful...

The recruiting ratings are the same (for now), but for the first time in 6 years, there is a clear recruiting strategy:

  • Every coach has an area in VA they cover, and we know (from the high school coaches in those areas) that the coaches are actually visible there
  • The roster is becoming balanced - gone are the days of 12 scholarship running backs

Posters here definitely have their orange & maroon glasses on, and I don't think you're posting anything deserving of a DV, but I do think your expectations were too high.

Let's talk specifics - are there any recruiting battles that you think we should've won that Pry lost? Are there any recruits we're not going after that you think we should?

Twitter me

I think the damage Fuente did, in regard to pipelines, was kind of underestimated and is just now surfacing. Pry has a tall order ahead of him and any improvement is an improvement. I think he should be judged by how these guys are developed over how he can recruit, for a few cycles.

The biggest thing is overall talent we need to go after higher profile (I get it, easier said than done). We have no business having a worse avg recruit rating currently than to list a few Purdue, Duke, Oregon State, Nc State, Vandy, Arizona, Rutgers, BC, Wake, UCF, Louisville. None of these teams should be out recruiting us even if it's Prys first day on the job. And all that may not be Prys fault but if it's the school, the way the funding is used... it needs to be fixed. We still have a long way to go to turn it around but it's discouraging even at the early stages to me.

Go for it

You forgot to add all P5 teams not named Indiana, Washington State, and Arizona State.

Purdue, Duke, Oregon State, Nc State, Vandy, Arizona, Rutgers, BC, Wake, UCF, Louisville. None of these teams should be out recruiting us even if it's Prys first day on the job. And all that may not be Prys fault but if it's the school, the way the funding is used... it needs to be fixed. We still have a long way to go to turn it around but it's discouraging even at the early stages to me.

So what's a reasonable turnaround time in your opinion?

Twitter me

I mean you don't think we should already be out recruiting every school on that list? There should be no turnaround needed to recruit better than Oregon State, duke and Arizona. Like if we've really fallen that far to where y'all don't think we should immediately and always recruit better than these teams that's the problem itself, most of the fan base has become numb to horrible recruiting

Edit: I'll also add that I certainly think we should be going after higher profile recruits than competing with Dartmouth, Jmu, and Liberty on commitments. As much as people talk about "diamonds in the rough" there just aren't as many any more if we don't start managing to pull in better recruits very shortly Ie starting this class, we're in very big trouble long term.

Go for it

First of all, in 2022 we did out-recruit Duke and Oregon State. As far as 2023 goes... it's early - a lot of our targets haven't even taken OVs.

There should be no turnaround needed to recruit better than Oregon State, duke and Arizona. Like if we've really fallen that far to where y'all don't think we should immediately and always recruit better than these teams that's the problem itself, most of the fan base has become numb to horrible recruiting

I do think that as a 'brand name', VT has fallen. In 2011 we were an undisputed top 25 program, arguably a top 15-20 program. 10+ years later, we're a top 40 program. We are no longer nationally relevant. ESPN, Sirius XM, The Athletic (excluding beat writers), etc isn't running stories or segments about VT - hell, the Coach Pry hire hardly got any level of national recognition (positive or negative). There are 32 schools with more active players in the NFL than VT.

VT is not as attractive to an 17 year old as it was 10+ years ago. It took us 10 years to fall this low, not sure why you expect it to change overnight.

I'll also add that I certainly think we should be going after higher profile recruits than competing with Dartmouth, Jmu, and Liberty on commitments. As much as people talk about "diamonds in the rough" there just aren't as many any more if we don't start managing to pull in better recruits very shortly Ie starting this class, we're in very big trouble long term.

We are up against UGA, Michigan, and FSU for Monteque Rhames. We're competing with Miami and Ole Miss for a top JUCO. Don't forget about this piece:

Inside the current Top 10 in Virginia, the Hokies have realistic shots at adding four prospects as things sit today: Cameron Seldon (2), Antonio Cotman Jr. (6), Kamren Robinson (8), and Kaveion Keys (9). All four prospects visited Virginia Tech unofficially this spring.

Cameron Seldon would be the best recruit since Kendall. Antonio Cotman has offers from PSU, Ole Miss, MD, Arkansas.

By the way, we currently have the 21st best class in the country - this will change a lot between now and NSD, but if it were to stay - this would be our highest ranked class since 2013, and tied for our 3rd best ranked class every (per 247, we had the 21st best class in 2013, 2010, & 2008, the 20th best class in 2005, and the 16th best class in 2001).

Overall, I think (1) it's too early to make any conclusion about Pry/the class of 2023, and (2) I think your expectations (for year 1) are too high.

Twitter me

There are 32 schools with more active players in the NFL than VT.

Including Temple, Utah and Missouri. Woof.

The Cup is going nowhere Mikey!

The good news is that, given how weak our conference and division are, we can probably get more relevant more quickly than a team trying to make headway in the SEC or Big 10. Solid (not even great, but hopefully we'll get better and better) recruiting and some honest to God actual player development as well as toughness on the field can all come in the next 2-3 years. It's hard to know what Fuente was like in the locker room, but Pry seems like the kind of guy players would play their hearts out for. And he seems like the kind of guy who would make the tough decisions if a position coach wasn't panning out. I know it's all speculation at this point and even early signs aren't any guarantees (Fuente winning 10 games in 2016 and playing Clemson in the conference championship didn't go anywhere).

You're good at research, so not sure if there's an easy way to find this out, but any way to tell what players we got that didn't have a great offer list that wound up still being really good? Search on VA Tech's most underrated recruits?

if there's an easy way to find this out, but any way to tell what players we got that didn't have a great offer list that wound up still being really good? Search on VA Tech's most underrated recruits?

Yea, recruiting score is typically (not always) a pretty good reflection of how many offers a player has.

The challenging side (from a 'big data' perspective) is defining what qualifies as 'really good'. All-ACC? First team? second team? Third Team? According to which media outlet? Drafted? Something else?

Twitter me

I probably didn't ask the right question how incomplete at least). I'm guessing if the offer list is us, Liberty, Dartmouth, etc., that probably equates to an unranked player? I'm guessing 3 stars will probably have more than 1 P5 offer (emphasis on the "guess" part). Hell, from his indignation on the offer list, I'd say ability to start on a decent P5 team (9 or 10 wins maybe?) might count. Just guessing there since the point he seemed to be implying is that a guy we're competing with those schools probably wouldn't be good enough to get us past a .500 season. Never mind that Liberty beat us with their recruits and our supposedly better recruits, but that's a different story (maybe. Can argue you can beat P5 teams with that level of talent with coaching/development, especially in combination with the P5 team not getting everything out of their players (sucking?)).

If there was a reliable and accurate way to parse "real" offers vs offers, this would be a decent metric. But its unreliable at best when schools offer 200 guys and take 25. Most of those offers aren't real.

Great point! I was just looking at a way to potentially argue against his point above about us battling Liberty and Dartmouth for recruits.

I have heard that recruits would get more P5 offers after we offered them - not sure how true that was, if it was only for certain positions, or if it wasn't true. It would be interesting to see if those guys get other P5 offers later also (but still realize they're self reported and not verifiable anyway). Main point is I'm not going to declare our class being bad this early with what, a couple guys we're recruiting not having long offer lists.

So, you can assume that a recruit with a .8500 ranking (mid/low 3-star) probably has 1-2 P5 offers, multiple G5 offers. You can assume that a recruit with a .8750 ranking (solid mid 3-star) probably 5ish P5 offers. A recruit with a .8950 (low 4-star) probably has a ton of P5 offers.

That said, DC had a really good point... There's no database of offers. Offers are self-reported from players. A lot of offers aren't 'official', much less 'committable'. There's no way to get accurate data here.

Twitter me

Thanks for the breakdowns for rankings. Recruiting has so many nuances, that's why I hate seeing someone trash our class, especially so early. There's the ranking, which gets revised over time (especially since some of these guys may not have had much time since don't know when all schools started football again after COVID, imagine some were later than others). There's position rank, state rank, realizing that difference between #1 and #3 player in a state (or position) one year might be much different in one year compared to another (in terms of talent).

Plus, not to beat a dead horse on bashing the previous staff, but there were some highly rated recruits that committed to us in previous years that just wound up decommitting. So seeing who commits and then actually signs will be something to watch for as well. Just so, SO early to be criticizing a class.

(Not talking about any criticism you made, just my attempts to figure a way to respond to the other criticism and how invalid it seems)

Bruh give him at least through next spring before making those comparisons. You can't just point to rankings without any context.

He's been here 7 months and most of that time has to be spent assessing the current roster and state of the program. And even if he was an established coach it's way too early to draw conclusions about 2023.

The irony of the user name as well, as clearly this poster does not view VT as number 1.

1. Find guys that can compete physically in the P5. 2. Manage your roster so that the team and locker room don't fall apart if one decent/versatile DB gets arrested for drugs. 3. Recruit a backup QB that you trust to play at this level, so that your #1 guys isn't always "hurt" or "playing hurt" thus using that an excuse. Start there. Doesn't need to be a top 5 recruiting class right now. Start with roster depth, a good locker room environment and guys that can physically compete.

Totally agree. I feel like Pry has us moving that direction. I feel that we're starting with #2, completed #3, and moving to #1 next.

Twitter me

Agreed. Even just some better roster management would be a big step in the right direction.

"Give me a fuΒ’king beer", Anonymous Genius

The millennial in me also wants instant gratification and results.

The cynical, realistic adult in me acknowledges good things take time.

VT '10--US Citizen; (804) Virginian By Birth; (210) Texan By the Grace of God.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

I also root for: The Keydets, TexAggies, NY Giants, NY Rangers, and Braves.

It's hilarious to me because the same people championing how it's okay how everything is currently going will be the same people joining the complaining crowd when our recruiting class finishes the season in the 40's

Go for it

I don't think anyone is ok with recruiting classes in the long term, but we also understand that unless you're at a blue-blood, or are taking over at a program that is already doing well, it's very unlikely a coach, especially a brand new head coach, is going to go gangbusters recruiting right away. Not to mention the fact that we're more than six months away from early signing day. Are we happy about it? No, but Pry has been on the job for seven months, and isn't some kind of magic man.

So looking of the last two years of new coaches (2020 and 2021) who have had a full class after their first year, The only coaches in P5 to see a real bump are Clark Lea, and Eliah Drinkwitz. Shane Beamer and Josh Heupal both saw a decent increase (2 points) to their average recruit from their transition class to their first class, however the 2020 classes for both were better than their 2022 class.

Every other new coach in the last two years has seen at best a minor increase in their first full class.

I think you should read more, and post less.

Comparing VT to USC, not understanding the transition period Pry is experiencing, etc.

Do some research.

Hokies United l Ut Prosim

In my opinion there is no transition period. This is the new norm at VT going forward. I greatly hope I'm wrong but I'm sad the days of us being the VT people feared playing in the early 00's are over for good. I will gladly eat crow if I'm proven wrong and I'll still be at every game supporting but the times have changed and regardless of a coaching change it feels like we're getting left in the past, by schools that have no business being better than us.

Go for it

There's a lot of place in between mediocre Fuente program and the Dark horse national title school that were in the aughts.

Twitter me

In the past you've at least positioned yourself on TKP as someone who has some level of inside information into the program.

If that's the case, what are you seeing about the way Pry is going about things that is concerning? or are you extrapolating the current state of the 23 class out to signing day?

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

In the past you've at least positioned yourself on TKP as someone who has some level of inside information into the program.

I think we all learned that was a bunch of bull.

Haha πŸ˜‚

Go for it

You're being unfairly downvoted for a pessimistic opinion but coupling it with an aggressively contrarian tone isn't doing you any favors, and the community tends to remember the people who go out of their way to be abrasive and assume that posture towards them moving forward. (See: Wilson, DC)

Very little about the way you're engaging with the community in this thread is worthwhile, this comment I'm replying to being chief of them. You might be laughing but the only joke here is your apparent deflection.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I mean I could have put what I was going to at first which was " I'll just give you the like you're apparently looking for." But I don't know if that would be any better. I expected in a public forum expressing my concern was an okay thing to do. Did I say something I do regret, yes I wish I wouldn't have taken a shot at softball because they had a great year and had nothing to do with this. But the other points of expecting the team to have been better whether it be even marginally at this point I will stand by. I don't think I really said anything too bad. As always I welcome people to question me and I try to interact back, I thought that's what fan forums were for?

Go for it

The way you addressed the caveats up front and then immediately discarded them in the rest of your interactions isn't really commenting in good faith.

First you say you know you're gonna get push back and that it's early in the cycle, then you say it's hilarious to you that people are willing to give Pry some slack now but might be upset later on?

Plus, there are multiple comments asking you for specifics about what you specifically are looking at in making your statement (e.g. head to head battle we lost, a guy we pulled back from, so on) and those are (apparently) ignored in favor of snarking back at others.

I'll reiterate that the downvotes are unfair, but it seems to me that you came into the thread looking to pick a proverbial fight and got all shocked pikachu when you found one

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

I mean I've been doing other stuff besides just searching out every comment on KeyPlay to respond to, but I try to respond to most without being redundant.

Go for it

Let's Go

HOKIES

It's hilarious to me because the same people championing how it's okay how everything is currently going will be the same people joining the complaining crowd when our recruiting class finishes the season in the 40's

Yay you. You'll be complaining the whole time and will be proven to be so right from the beginning.

Hopefully I don't have to, but judging by our recruiting, you're probably right. But I'm sure you will be excited come end of the year when we have class #39 so you can say "see look it's really not that bad that we got recruits only JMU and Dartmouth wanted. We're fine. It's culture and fit." Same blah blah bullshit y'all always use when we miss on someone who was never interested in the first place.

Go for it

Outcomes trail process. The process looks good right now. We'll see if outcomes follow.

Twitter me

Came to the thread thinking we had some hot stove June news (I double checked/looked back just to make sure):

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

I feel like this is every summer recruiting thread

Agreed! That whole saying "no news is good news," doesn't apply in the summer recruiting threads πŸ˜‚

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Same.... This gif is how I felt going though this thread.

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Accurate

but free VA-shaped bottle opener!!!!

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

Feel free to stop at this # πŸ˜‚ (especially if this ain't going plaid πŸ˜‚)

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ #YNWA

Man needs to go too 247 and join the whine fest over there πŸ˜‚

Here they come
Here comes the bastards
I heard it from a confidant
Who heard it from a confidant
They're definitely on their way

Yes it was whiny and out of touch, but didn't deserve the downvote pile on. I went through and upvoted most to offset, except the post knocking the softball team.

I am not sure what to do with my hands now

🀫

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Always be Cobbling. Cocoa is for Cobblers.

beat me to it

VT '10--US Citizen; (804) Virginian By Birth; (210) Texan By the Grace of God.

Rick Monday... You Made a Great Play...

I also root for: The Keydets, TexAggies, NY Giants, NY Rangers, and Braves.

This is what I get for thinking something good happened

So...y'all got any of them recruiting updates?

Not yet, Tyrone

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

Sadly, no.

Lol @ me for thinking we must have landed a blue chip after seeing 100+ comments in the June recruiting on June 2nd...

Worst part is literally every not recruit-related (meaning news about a particular croot) comment has been stated and debated ad nauseam previously.

I'm still figuring this out.

Maybe we should call up everyone's bosses and let them know they've got too much time on their hands...

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

Look if we didn't do this here then our spouses would take the full brunt of our geniuses and divorce us. This is for the greater good

EDIT: fixed grammar, I'm not that dumb, really!

.... this is the most perfectly written thing I've ever seen on this site
-8300A_Hokie'12

Bravo. Two excellent references

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Look at my signature ffs

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Point made, and conceded. I was more griping on the hope for news and getting the prognosticators greatest hits.

I'm still figuring this out.

Logs on to see 100+ new comments on the recruiting thread...

Is coronavirus over yet?

I mean, if you're looking for anything other than banter, it typically gets its own thread.

Twitter me

There are lots of unofficial and official visits being scheduled this summer for some fairly high rated recruits. In the top 8 or better along with some strong teams for 4 star WRs, RBs, and DBs!

TKP hasn't had a recruiting thread get completely derailed less than three full days into a month in a LONG time. WE BAK FAM.

It feels so right.

TKP Recruiting Discussions: Come For the Uninformed Emotional Hot Takes, Stay For the Suicide By Ratio

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Calling shitty recruiting how it is, is uninformed? Lol as for the downvotes I could care a less there are obviously some people here who only post for the sake of votes, I just say what's on my mind regardless of whether the snowflakes like it or not.

Go for it

You seriously need to step away from the keyboard and take a break for a while.

We currently have the 21st best class. What is the line between a 'shitty' and a not 'shitty' class? Top 20? Top 15? Top 10?

Twitter me

It's in the username - if we're ranked #2 or lower, fire everyone and get someone in here who knows what they're doing.

.... this is the most perfectly written thing I've ever seen on this site
-8300A_Hokie'12

I just say what's on my mind regardless of whether the snowflakes like it or not.

This sort of childish name-calling behavior isn't very Ut Prosim of you.

I found TKP after two rails from TOTS then walking back to my apartment and re-watching the 2012 Sugar Bowl. I woke up the next day with this username.

Can we reserve judgment whether recruiting is good/bad/ugly until these kids set foot on campus, play their first games or even better, get a few years into their careers here at VT?

TBH, recruiting rankings are pretty highly correlated with on the field success. I'm all for waiting until a class is complete, but once the class is completed, you can judge it. As far as what happens after the kids get on campus... that's a player development issue, not a recruiting issue.

Twitter me

Also if you look at most at the targets still left on the board. Most got bumped to composite 4 stars so their argument is no longer valid tbh

Here they come
Here comes the bastards
I heard it from a confidant
Who heard it from a confidant
They're definitely on their way

Anyone else think this is a loluva fan burner account?

Left their computer logged in while on vacation and their JMU housesitter is drunk.

.... this is the most perfectly written thing I've ever seen on this site
-8300A_Hokie'12

I'll continue with the irrelevant postings that have taken over the thread....Part II thread loading in 5....4....3....2.....

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

I didn't fully appreciate mustard until I was older.

Discuss.

Same. I wasn't a mustard guy until I had some bacon honey mustard and was hooked. Also good mustard with a pretzel is heaven.

been a while since we have derailed a thread into a condiment discussion. I'm all for it with this thread.

We better relish this time before it derails right back to recruiting.

Otherwise we'll be playing ketchup all year

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

David Wilson convinced Chik-fil-a to sell their sauces in the grocery store.

Rumor has it he's working on getting them to come out with a marinade.

.... this is the most perfectly written thing I've ever seen on this site
-8300A_Hokie'12

Mayo have a point there.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

Tzatziki sauce is something I regret not knowing about 10 years ago.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

Married a gal who's half Greek, half Korean. The food I've eaten in the last 10 years is so far superior than my first 20 I can't even really describe it.

It has always been the superior condiment. It just takes some folks longer to grow out of the sugar condiments.

The best bbq sauces feature some mustard too.

Have always liked mustard way more than ketchup, mayo, ranch dressing ... Clearly my #1 condiment. Spicy or horseradish mustard as well as the Super Hot Philadelphia Pretzel Factory mustard. The PPF Super Hot is really uneven though. Some bottles will be no hotter than Gulden's Spicy Brown and another one was hotter than the ghost pepper hot sauce I made from scratch. And it was not even close.

Recovering scientist working in business consulting

This place Fest here in RVA has something in the mustard that must be hiiiiiiiiighly addictive

Horseradish mustard butter is the only way to eat corn on the cob. It's like crack. Once you do it you'll never go back.

2 sticks softened butter.
3 tablespoons prepared horseradish.
3 tablespoons GOOD dijon mustard.
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon fresh ground pepper.
1 teaspoon Tablespoon fresh parsley finely chopped. (Dried is ok too.)
This will last me a month or so but i eat fresh corn on the cob several times a week at least during the summer.

Enjoy.

My wife takes the kids and leaves the house while I watch my Hokie games.........nuff said

he only way to eat corn on the cob

elote?

Update: For those wondering what is elote, it's mexican street corn:

Grilled corn, smothered with mayonasa and covered with chili, cilantro, and cotija cheese. Served with lime and hot sauce.

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

Aaaaaaand screenshot

"The Big Ten is always using excuses to cancel games with us. First Wisconsin. Then Wisconsin. After that, Wisconsin. The subsequent cancellation with Wisconsin comes to mind too. Now Penn State. What's next? Wisconsin?" -HorseOnATreadmill

My favorite burger place in RVA has a house sauce that is more mayo/mustard based than mayo/ketchup, like most places, and I'm HERE for it.

Smashed. They are currently still just a pop-up, but so so good. Best way to find them is follow them on instagram @smashedrva. They post their schedule weekly. Try the chopped cheese.

Got it! I've seen them around but haven't tried them yet. Will now.

News?! Get outta here with this crap.

I know it's breaking the rules, but figured I'd throw it out there. I'm sorry for failing you.

Mayonnaise

"I want your D.O.R., Mayo-nnaise!"

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Man, that #TXtoVT pipeline really paid dividends.

He committed shortly before Fu was fired which just seemed odd from a timing standpoint as well. Per TSL, he was suspended within two weeks of arriving at VT.

"Give me a fuΒ’king beer", Anonymous Genius

It's going to be interesting to see how they split the two recruits time between those positions. D-Hall played corner & wide receiver, but can't remember him ever lining up on the d-line...

β€œThese people are losing their minds. This is beautiful.”

Something something numbers always work out...

Jesus Christ, burn this thread to the ground....can't say I've ever seen a single person derail an entire thread to this degree before.

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Such a under-appreciated movie....Fist Fight was super funny.

BAG GAWD THATS SHOCKWAVE'S MUSIC

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

First time eh? This shit happens every summer. Lot less since fuente was let go atleast.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I don't know if I've ever seen a stranger graphic

πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ πŸ¦ƒ

I had to click to allow me to view that because Twitter thinks it's too graphic.

Tony is totally cursed in that image.

If you feel the leather in your hand let it rip.

It is definitely a Strange Thing

"That move was slicker than a peeled onion in a bowl of snot." -Mike Burnop

Dude would own the stadium here!

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

You could easily argue he would own another stadium a little to the northeast as well

Ring Design Chair

Man, this would be a great pick up. I hope Pry's defense seems attractive to him.

I see he and Sparkplug using #Gohookies and hope we don't have a Miami party boat situation on our hands...

I'm here for the memes, I just stay for the football.

Just got a cb for Layth Ghannan. High 3 star offensive lineman from west Virginia

Here they come
Here comes the bastards
I heard it from a confidant
Who heard it from a confidant
They're definitely on their way

Also a composite 4 star

Here they come
Here comes the bastards
I heard it from a confidant
Who heard it from a confidant
They're definitely on their way

And another 5* name for the DnD themed roster

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

On3 has him as the #1 player in WV and a top 250 overall prospect. Yes please

This would be a steal because of family personal relationships and another university on his list

He really really likes Rudolph

Here they come
Here comes the bastards
I heard it from a confidant
Who heard it from a confidant
They're definitely on their way

Rudolph was such a damn good hire and him reaching out to Pry just shows the respect and confidence in each other.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

As he should. Hell Rudolph almost pulled off a miracle getting Sam Pendleton.

This would be a huge pickup IMO

*Comes to the June recruiting thread seeing 100+ new posts*

*Halfway through skimming all the new posts*

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Now finish up them taters; I'm gonna go fondle my sweaters.

Now that his body has been verified, he's a certified blue chip. Have we offered him yet?

There's no glory in practice and lifting but without practice and lifting, there will be no glory!

I think we will be slow to offer. Pretty stiff in the hips. Slow feet. Would like to see him use his hands more.

Hard to accurately rate OL prospects but he looks like a project to me. French?

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

If you feel the leather in your hand let it rip.

Everything is Upside Down is my favorite prank show.