Solid Verbal dropped a new episode with Andy Bitter, full devoted to reviewing VT's 2022 Season. Nothing ground breaking (especially for people here) but I like seeing/sharing any time 'national media' does a deep dive on VT. Also, Andy Bitter 'walked out' to eight-bit Enter Sandman, so that was cool.
All in all, I think they hit the nail on the head. Here's some solid quotes they used to set the table:
[VT] had all sorts of challenges just with respect to talent. Sure. Talent was not there. We talked about it all preseason long, but it wasn't a difficult schedule. This was a very workable schedule last year. The fact that they only won three games. I think many, many Virginia Tech fans would look at that and say, man, that was somewhat disappointing. I think the fact that they struggled definitely underscores the challenge ahead for Brent Pry. And that's why this is an important conversation If you're, if you're a Virginia Tech fan, if you're just a college football fan in general.
This has been a historic program for a good long time. The fact that they have slipped now to the point where we're talking about a three and eight team, where we're wondering about bowl eligibility moving forward... There's a lot going on here that I think college football fans in general would find very interesting.
Towards the end of the show, Dan said this, and I've never felt so heard:
I don't mean this in a pejorative way, but if you were to look at who would be the program, the team to root for, to align yourself with that would cause you the most agitation over these last few years. And it's not just because they'll have a terrible year or they'll have a great year and that they're inconsistent year to year from a win total perspective. But from a maddening, we have talented guys, we lose close games as soon as we have a defense. We don't have an offense as soon as we have an offense, we don't have a defense and the upheaval with head coaches and coordinators. Like I just, I can't imagine what it must be like to be a Virginia Tech fan to have seen so much success and then now going through a time where ACC's not super strong like this should traditionally be a time where Virginia Tech fills that vacuum, right?...
...You show a flash of of improvement and then the next three weeks are just garbage. And so yeah, they're one of those programs that I'm sure is completely torturing its fan base.
The discussion at the end on the long term future of VT is so on point - The first quote is Dan Rubenstein, the second is Ty's response:
Virginia Tech is a clear example of what we would be and what we probably are losing as we head to like the super-2. They are that program that has been really good over the past few decades that, you know, they played for a national championship game. They have one of the most, one of the most electric players in the history of the sport in Michael Vick. They have a ton of NFL talent. Like they are a program that if you're from the West coast, if you're from Texas, if you're from the Northwest, if you're from the Midwest, you've probably never been to Blacksburg, Virginia. You've probably have no idea what a Hokie is because it's a made up Turkey mascot. The atmosphere is pretty much unparalleled. That Lane Stadium, I don't know if you've ever been, I went to a game there. It has the tradition. It has the frenzied fan base.
And as Fox and ESPN further control the sport, people just say, 'well, you know, we don't see as much Virginia Tech.' And I just think it's, it's a clear example of the sort of tragedy of the future of the sport... ...And I know the ACC has done itself no favors locking in its grant of rights and everything like that. But that they're one of those programs to me that is a threat to be lost in the shuffle because it.
Virginia Tech is college football and I don't believe in the like, 'oh, college football's better when Virginia Tech [is good],' I don't believe in that line of thinking, but I just love Virginia Tech.
I've been there. I've eaten the giant Turkey leg. I was on the field for Enter Sandman and so I hope for the sake of Virginia Tech that they get better under Brent Pry and they have better players and they're developing NFL type talent and they take down powers and they're in Big Bowl games once again... ...I don't know how to like phrase it better than that. Virginia Tech football rules. And I hope we're able to have a conversation which they're at the table nationally, regionally, whatever.
if we end up pushing forward on the conference expansion, the super 2, Yeah. Front as you phrased it, Virginia Tech would be in a really weird spot. Totally. If you've got two conferences [and] they want to go all the way up to [22 or] 24... ...Then I think it's a little bit more obvious that there's a place for Virginia Tech. But if they go to 18, if they just stop at 20... ... is there any real impetus to bring Virginia Tech in?
TL;DR - this episode is everything I already knew about the program, but it's also everything I want an outsider to know and understand about the program.
Quick callouts:
- I took these quotes out of context, so as always, listen
- Also, the transcript may not be perfect (I used Podscribe) so the transcript may not be the best. I'm doing my best to edit out the 'umms' and 'likes' and 'ya knows' so the quotes make sense. I'll probably continue to tweak.
Comments
Dan, you have no idea.
As an Oregon alum and fan, he sort of knows. Similar but different.
This is fair.
Bleak and hopeful. Perfectly illustrating our crossroads.
Can someone please briefly educated me on the Super 2 and approx. how far away this may be from coming to fruition? 18, 20, 22, or 24 teams only? There are 32 in the NFL. It kind of blows my mind that it would come to that. I am sorry, but this would leave me to care much less about CFB, with or without VT. I don't want to watch the SEC and Big (10) play each other every week. This is possibly less appealing than watching NFL games. It is not like the 100 other teams would just be absolved, they would still exist. Why would those fan bases watch the S2? It is not the equivalent of the NFL where, hey these are the 32 teams, watch it or not.
It is just mind-boggling to think that is what could happen to the sport in the 20 years since I graduated when I feel it was in its pinnacle., at least for us. The BCS was not great but all the surroundings of CFB during that time are better than now. The dash to money blows and ruins everything.
I share your sentiments. The national championship game is almost unwatchable anymore to me - it's so over-commercialized and played in all these brand new corporate feeling NFL stadiums. Let's face it, this is all about 1) money and 2) the top tier of CFB essentially wanting to be a farm league for the NFL without the NFL openly and directly running it. I personally cannot stand the NFL, have no interest in rooting for these big city teams, and don't get the appeal. But $$$ is ultimately driving all of this.
CFB is cyclical, however, and has always periodically gotten drunk on cash and then had a period of regulation and settling out. The bowl system has historically just been a massive cash grab, and the bowl alliance/coalition/BCS were all just different iterations of making a bigger cash grab. In the early part of the 20th century, many schools were openly paying players and there was a ton of corruption in the sport. We had massive super leagues like we're heading to now with the old SoCon. Eventually, and likely once they completely kill the sport and a lot of interest in it when they go fully on this P2 model, there will be calls for reform, tv contracts will dwindle and schools will lose money, super leagues will fall apart, and more regulations will even the sport back out again. But we are in another period of unchecked, pay to play mentality in the sport at the moment. Likely some programs will become irrelevant and won't survive this. It's awful but this is what happens when the NCAA doesn't do its job and people are more concerned with cash than anything else.
Hard to say with any certainty when/if the Super 2 will come to fruition, but it seems you have a grasp of the general idea. SEC B1G super conferences because the money + parts of the country that care the most about college football will be, for the most part, represented. However, what I would disagree with is this part:
Casual fans would love this + these two conferences would comprise a supermajority of the biggest fanbases/regions of the country who religiously follow college football. It would likely be extremely successful without any viewership issues.
It's not what I want to see happen, especially if VT can't get itself into one of those two conferences, but I am such a college football purist that I am staunchly in the corner that the playoff was one of the worst things to ever happen to the sport, so I may not be the best person to weigh in.
Do we have any data on what teams casual fans watch? I am not sure you can extrapolate it based on TV ratings. Many of the big matchups are interesting to more rabid fans because of their impact on their particular team.
Andy Stapels did a piece on this recently (sports media watch is a great source for this kind of stuff).
I have a lot of problems with Andy's piece; mainly that it doesn't account for change in viewership across networks/times (eg; games that get ABC broadcasts will always do better than ESPN or a conference network, and games at primetime will typically do better than noon games on the same network). But the teams in the first two bullets are *significantly* more likely to get good time slots on good networks. And this gets to the issue that I think VTCCA99 was referencing below... if all the good time slots/networks go to just the SEC/B10, it further screws the ACC.
Also the SEC and B1G will be the only ones on TV, so those will be the only team casual fans will ever see. Also, those will be the only schools recruits are interested in. The rest of us will become a second tier like FCS is now. Irrelevant except to those with ties directly to the school.
It's all speculation right now. Supposedly, (ex-B10 commissioner) Kevin Warren's goal was to make the B10 a 24 team league, but B10 presidents were not into that idea.
The thought is that ~20% of the teams create ~80% of revenue (I made those numbers up to illustrate the point, but you get the idea). So those other teams can take their 20% and play at a lower level.
I mean, fans of FCS and G5 schools probably still watch P5 football 🤷♂️.
I had long been an opponent of the 12 team playoff, but when the B10 and the SEC took real moves towards being 'super conferences', I think the 12 team playoff became a necessity. With the 12 team playoff - starting in 2024 - every team will have a shot at 'being relevant' in any given season. I do think/hope this will help improve CFB as a whole.
I personally love watching the best college football, and it is currently in the sec. Big 10 has gotten better, and the acc and pac12 are headed toward being insignificant. Only fsu and Miami can pull the acc out of the pits of he'll. Maybe tech can help the acc to be relevant again, it would be nice. But acc football is a crap product, and tech fans are fooling themselves if we don't realize we are getting left behind .
Have we watched the same Miami since they joined the ACC?
I do think Miami has the national clout/brand to raise the profile of an entire conference (if they can win on the field).
Unfortunately (or fortunately?) they've had one 10 win season in the last 20 years.
Miami hasn't been relevant on the national scale since they got caught cheating and paying players. So maybe with NIL they will be able to be relevant again. We know they have the boosters paying players again.
There's about 12 teams that will always be 'nationally relevant' - Miami is one of those teams. They will receive coverage and recognition regardless of their record as long as college football fans are watching 30 for 30's on the Da U.
Miami is the heel in cfb. You need them to be good to have it be entertaining.
Miami has the historic brand but the SEC brand and recruiting their area heavily is major competition. Plus off-site pro stadium and not tremendous fan support. If I'm a recruit in South Florida and have offers from Miami, UF, Georgia, Bama, etc. I would probably really have to like the U to go there if my goal is to play for titles and get to the NFL.
Are we just going to ignore Clemson winning two national titles?
Agree on #2, Clemson hasn't won less than 10 games since 2010 I'd argue they've positioned themselves as a nationally recognizable brand
Clemson is a nationally recognized brand because of their recent success. In recent years ESPN is working to reduce their brand intentionally to boost the SEC. You see it every day.
The fact that some say they are not is proof that it may be working.
Let me put it this way:
The difference between the Blue Bloods and the Nuevo Rich isn't the number of wins or the money or the recruits... it's the prestige and sustained cultural relevance. Clemson just does not have the staying power of OSU or Miami.
i think the point is that you need at least another team to step up and join them in the national conversation
This is the real reason we ditched the divisions. Clemson vs an unranked Coastal champ doesn't move the needle for anyone. They're trying to set it up so if the 2nd best team is FSU or Loserville or NCST, they can still have an ACC championship that people outside the ACC might tune into. A second ACC team getting into the playoff picture wouldn't hurt either.
This and to try and add compelling football/national attention games to the ACC schedule each year. Games like Clemson-Miami, VT-Clemson, VT-NC State, FSU-VT, UNC-Clemson/FSU just weren't happening enough after divisions got so large.
The frustrating thing is that this could have happened even with the division structure, but for reasons I'll never understand, we got stuck with BC as a permanent rival and the colossally stupid twice-every-12-years schedule with teams like FSU, Clemson, and loserville. I get that VT may not be part of the good ole boys club in Greensboro, but this is simple math: you maximize league-wide revenue by putting the best possible product on TV. Sadly this is just another example of the short-sighted ACC screwing itself.
Oh preach to the choir my friend. The ACC could have done a lot of things better a long time ago, but chose not to. Sucks but here we are'
My thought was that a team with the clout that Miami has/had in college football could pull the acc out of its irrelevance. Mock them if you will, but my point that the acc puts out a hot garbage football product compared to the sec is still the issue. The conference needs some teams to step up and give Clemson a rival.