I was emailed days after finishing my first masters that a policy change at my university meant I couldn't complete my second masters on time and would need to take 9 additional classes. I'm looking for someone who can advise me legally what my next steps might be. I've already emailed every dean and president at the university. They apologized that the new policy wasn't explained to students or advisors but it was a "needed change". I'm hoping they will grandfather in students like myself who were working towards our second masters prior to change and wanted to get an informal legal opinion if possible. Please email me at hsorlp AT yahoo com if you have any advice. Thanks for always being a great resource TKP.
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9? Additional classes??? Sheesh.
That's just my estimate they haven't even been able to tell me exactly what I need.
Sounds like a 🫳💰
I'm sorry you're going through this Fireman. Please keep us posted.
How close to being done are(were before the 9 more classes) you?
4 classes that I have already signed up for and have started my summer secession class already. Graduate Spring of 24 was original plan of study.
Do any classes from the 1st and 2nd overlap?
Yes that's the issue. When I did my plan of study and enrolled in both programs in 2020 I could use 4 classes from each for the electives for the other. Now the university says I can't do that.
That's terrible. My conversation with the program director where I just finished up when I decided to tack on a ms business analytics degree to my mba was basically along the lines of "well the book doesn't give cross credit for these three classes but it makes sense so I'll count them towards your requirement". And when they changed the requirements after I enrolled in the program, everyone already in was indeed grandfathered in if it wasn't reasonable for their anticipated graduation date.
This. I'm surprised they didn't work with Hokie Fireman. If it were a change because of accreditation requirements, I somewhat get it. However, if it is instution-driven, there should be room to accommodate.
Not legal advice but some suggestions. File a formal grievance with the University and in it ask for the specific resolution you want or options that you would be satisfied with. Grandfathering might be one or reduced tuition may be another. Either way make sure to cite the catalog year you were accepted. If you don't have the catalogue, the library will likely provide you with a link to an archived version. You can also file a complaint with the state authorization entity in that state. In Virginia it's SCHEV If the program is online and out of your state of residency you can also file a complaint through NC-SARA. I always recommend working with the department head or Deans office first but you do have rights and avenues to pursue before getting an attorney.
In Florida so going to have to look up that information. I've emailed every Dean I can think of and other admin.
Ok ... here's the plan. Go to your Dean's office with an appointment.Then while you are speaking with him/her you Fight Club that shit. However, instead of punching yourself in the face and beating the hell out of yourself. You "find" pro-gay education materials in their office whilst you video everything.
Now they have a choice: give you what you want or become the next victim of the DeSatis Witch Trials.
Being in Florida sometimes provides all the resources you need.
Just have to wait for next political crony to get appointed president or to the board. Already on our third college with a politician appointed president and they are working on the fourth.
the reality is, if this is affecting you then it is affecting other students. you need to find them and make some noise collectively. casting a spotlight as a group can change deaf ears to swift hands on many occasion. and if it does go legal better to be a group already.
Issue there is most of us live outside of Orlando area. We don't have a lot of close relationships.
What happened to keep politics off the board?
Yeah, that's a good call. Obv fernley is being tongue in cheek about the nuts and bolts, but the comment can easily be a lightning rod.
Yep. But sometimes, politics invades and involves our lives even here in a "Sanctuary Site". Hope he gets it all straightened out.
The entirety of my MS in engineering was 6 classes + thesis.... this sounds insane
WHY DID NO ONE ON TKP MENTION THAT TECH NOW HAS A VIRTUAL MPA PROGRAM!! I could finally get an actual degree from Virginia Tech!
Because probably you're the one on TKP who would know that
But also that's super neat and i hope you do it
Without looking, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the program was made public like yesterday and fireman discovered it within hours
Can you transfer your classes that you already have so you can achieve this life goal?
Just send in a request information form off the site. Hopefully because if it's the full MPA not sure I can justify the 50K plus price tag for out of state.
No useful advice I can give, but this sucks. Hope it is resolved in a fair way for you. Would hope they would grandfather you in, but we are talking about the education-industrial complex here, so it is an uphill battle.
So two thoughts. One is if this is just a change in interpretation about whether you could use electives across two programs, you might be screwed. Second - If it is an actual policy change, I would argue it's something akin to fraud to change rules that would force students to stay and take additional classes (and thereby pay more money) in order to graduate and get their degree. As such, you would have to grandfather in the students prior to the policy change and make it effective with new classes. Hopefully one of the lawyers on here will chime in, but I feel somewhat confident in my assessment.
Contacting Deans isn't likely to get you anywhere. You'd have to talk to the people who do the evaluations/verification that students have met the requirements I believe the registrar. For example, Tech has this page under the registrar, so that's most likely who would be able to tell you.
UPDATE: Just had first tele meeting with someone other than my advisor. They are saying I need to take 6 additional courses plus 4 classes I'm already enrolled in so 30 credit hours. Basically starting over for this masters. Not sure what I'm going to do at this point. That's another almost three years of work. Getting no responses from Deans, provosts, or vice presidents so pretty disheartening.
Have you contacted a lawyer about this? It just smells bad.
I know it won't help much, but is there another school in the area or online that offers the same program you are doing? If you really have to start over from scratch - hopefully not - to get one of the degrees, I'd at least refuse to do it at the place you are going now. Finish up the one and do the other elsewhere if that is a viable option. Might not be. Maybe nowhere else close by or online only does it or maybe they would be even more expensive, but you could look into it.
I got my first masters, EMERGENCY AND CRISIS MANAGEMENT. But wanted this second masters to help broaden my depth of education so I wouldn't be pigeonholed into just emergency management roles in government. Talked to multiple people and getting the MPA was a great option. But now I'm just not sure if it's really worth it long term. The cost isn't an issue it's the time, the late nights, the frustration at group projects or working our family schedules around my due dates. Then to go from the high of having a full P5 type university degree with the culture that comes with that; taking kids to football and basketball games and other events on campus, they having the chance to go to school there etc all feels like it's been tainted.
Really hope they used all caps on your diploma to signal urgency
I would be fuming and they would get more than an earful.
Did you talk to the Registrar's office? I know somebody mentioned it earlier in the thread..
Have included them on all emails.
Emails are not talking. Face to face conversations with emails following up and documenting what was discussed in person is the way to go.
That's not really an option for me. It's a two hour each way drive to Orlando. Email is best option to make sure everything is recorded and I can sunshine law request if it gets to that point anything with my name in it.
Sorry I missed that. Point still stands. Emails can very well be ignored. Unless you are motivated/have legal standing to pursue this in court (or can convince the school you can pursue it in court), email probably won't move the needle on this issue.
Have you tried calling anyone?
I was wondering this too. Fireman, make sure your phone is charged, you have plenty of snacks and water and prepare for a day of being on the phone. If you still don't get answers, I would see about transferring to another school as suggested by Mr Storm Your Field.
Transferring wouldn't solve the time issue. If Tech was even just a little bit cheaper than 50k I would be willing to give the time for a degree from there but not really anywhere else.
I'd look into transferring to another school and see if they can come up with a better option. I know when I was in grad school, I think you could only transfer in 12 credits (of a 30 credit masters degree), so it might be worth looking into right away. Sucks that this is happening to you but maybe that would be the best option?
I'm also really surprised that you weren't grandfathered into things somehow either, because surely there had to be some grandfathering in of students done, like ones who were set to graduate this spring or next fall?
https://www.cecs.ucf.edu/academics/graduate-programsadvising/for-current...
Can someone else look at this page and tell me it says I can use 15 internal transfer credits??? Am I misreading it??
Looks like you've got 15 hours you can transfer to me.
Add this information to your emails and phone calls and fight and question.