Well, the question mark did most of the heavy lifting.
I think there's some validity to the hypothetical. Bowl week would provide more valuable practice time and the staff can sell a bowl turnaround in year 2 to recruits.
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I feel like - given the recruiting strategy is to dominate VA - we have to beat UVA. I think 5 wins and winning the commonwealth cup has more long term impact than losing the cup but playing an extra exhibition game.
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I'll take a winning record and loss to UVa over a losing record and beating UVa any year. Now granted, if it was 5-7 beating UVa and 6-7 assuming we lose the bowl game, I'll take the UVa win and 5-7. But I want the team to be as good as possible and not care about losing to UVa.
Now the worst thing would be to be 5-6 and lose to UVa and get knocked out of bowl contention because of it. Oh man, I said it. No jinxes here, please.
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IMO it's really not, especially where we are as a football program... get to 6 wins, get an extra month of practice in prep for a bowl game. Much better than going 5-7, missing a bowl game and seeing copious amounts of "HAHAHA LOLUVA" on Twitter. It's not going to hurt recruiting as people make it out to be and we aren't always going to beat them.
More reps for these young players is most important.
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Agree...with a Team this young those Bowl practices do have real value.
Also, watching NCSU v. Miami right now...the Pack D looks alot like Louisville...DL that appears stout and gets up the field, Wilson is a real difference maker @ MLB. After the OL's
"performance" today...my confidence is waning for that matchup.
Beat BC, beat Uva and go bowling.
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Counter: Losing to UVA hurts us in VA recruiting. We need to assert our dominance and remind everyone that VT will once again be the #1 program in VA (currently we're #2).
Not to mention that losing to UVA would be a bad loss, arguably the second worse loss of the Pry era, behind ODU in 2022.
The 15 extra practices would be nice, but they're not program altering.
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If one loss to UVA is going to submarine our In-state recruiting then we have much bigger problems.
Plus we've lost to Marshall this year, so any damage with "bad losses" has already been done.
Based on the trajectory of the Programs,I am confident that we will consistently beat UVa for the foreseeable future, making a Bowl I think fulfils a more immediate goal and need of this rebuild effort.
Plus, you have consistently tooted the horn that recruits don't really care about team records and focus on whether you can convince them that you can get them to the NFL and their NIL potential. So lose to UVa but offer an extra $10k and all should be solved, no?
Feels like you're kinda trying to play both sides here.
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Not to mention that we are probably the #3 program in the state now. Liberty and JMU are both better. Don't care that we beat Liberty last year. Pittsburgh beat Louisville this year and no way are they better, overall, than Louisville.
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I went to Jmu and have watched most of their games. I'm not convinced VT would not beat Jmu or liberty. Maybe in the beginning of the year we lose, but not now. Record aside, look at their schedule and how they performed against p5 and i think you'll figure out why it took so long for them to get pressured to rank them.
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Sorry for the delayed response! A very fair question.
If one loss to UVA is going to submarine our In-state recruiting then we have much bigger problems.
I don't think one loss to UVA will hurt our recruiting that much, just like I don't think that one additional win will help recruiting that much.
From what I've gathered, our recruiting pitch is basically the same as UVA's:
Play for coaches who have a history of putting players in the NFL
Get NIL money
Get early playing time (which will help you get to the NFL faster)
Help a struggling 'hometown' program return to greatness, be big man on campus, etc
Now, we all know that UVA can/will never be great, but recruits may not feel that we. I just think that part of our messaging rings hollow if we don't beat UVA.
Also, I hate UVA, and would rather beat them and lose to BC/NCst. So maybe I'm biased and just finding a reason to support my belief rather than the opposite.
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Son, you are considering VT? They lost last year to 2 win purdue, 3 win Marshall and 2 win UVA. Seriously? 3 of the worst teams in Division 1. That's my pitch when recruiting against VT- they lost often to absolute dogshit teams.
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Kids don't care about that. It's easy as shit to spin it back: "be a part of bringing VT back to greatness". This kids have been playing organized sports for most of their lives, they've all lost a game they shouldn't, and probably beat some teams they shouldn't. They aren't so ignorant that they think because a team lost a couple games the year before that those losses will have any bearing on future seasons. It means nothing and they know it.
High school football players pick a school based on:
Name recognition
Rankings
NFL
Maybe overall record, not that much though
Competition (big games against big time opponents)
The fact that we play shitty teams in future seasons impacts recruiting way more that the actual outcome of those games.
You keep harping on how losing to uva or Purdue hurts recruiting and you are wrong. No high school kids care, if we can show them how we need them and it'll be good for them to come to Tech.
We don't get beat out by Georgia for players because we lost to ODU last year. We lose out because they're Georgia and we're not. They don't really care about past seasons as much as future potential, I guarantee it. Unless past seasons include a championship, of course.
Son, are you considering VT? They've played for one national championship 25 years ago and they lost. They haven't won the ACC since 2010.
Wow, that was a lot easier and more effective than trying to convince a kid he shouldn't play for tech because they lost to one particular team in a previous season.
Win games. Don't care who we beat or who we lose to but get the number of wins going up and get recruits. 7-5 is a lot easier to sell then 5-7 any day.
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If a player was going to commit to VT but then changed his mind because of the result of one football game, then that kid is an idiot and I'm glad he didn't come to Tech.
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Bigger picture... we were clowned on national TV by ODU as a 28 point favorite. If that doesn't show the world you aren't serious about football, nothing will. And the recruiting results have proven it.
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Okay, we lost to ODU, but we won this year. Not a blowout, but we won. We turned around a season a lot of people probably wondered if we'd win another game after Marshall, then we curb stomped our in-state rival by the highest score ever in the matchup.
I'm not sure how we played ODU a year or two ago matters ("look how we"re trending, we didn't plateau with that loss to ODU"). The message is: "We aren't the same team that lost to ODU - after changing QBs and opening the playbook, we beat all the teams we really should have and in progressively improved fashion. Now we need better players to go after those teams we lost against (more in line with the FSUs and Louisvilles, because we sure as hell would beat Marshall if we played them again with our current roster)."
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Seriously, I don't think that one loss made any difference. I think some may not have been impressed with the overall record, for someone who didn't necessarily want to be a part of a rebuild.
The argument gets better as VT continues to show improvement. It's a program moving in the right direction.
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I mean the Women's Basketball Team and the Wrestling Team are really putting their thumb in the eye of a lot of recruiting excuses. Seems like winning is what brings all the boys to the yard.
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Amen. Rutgers and FSU have comparable resumes- beaten nobody. I am intrigued at the noles playoff game- see if they can compete with someone other than 4 loss LSU at the top level. Michigan's scheduled equally absurd.
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Now do this with UNC or Miami, or UGA when Richt was there, or with any Lane Kiffin or Lincoln Riley coached team. It's a talking point, sure, but it does not significantly affect teams or coaches that can recruit at a high level.
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Win 6 and make a bowl. I'm tired of losing and there's nothing sadder than being obsessed with a rivalry between two garbage teams that no one else cares about.
I'd be much more optimistic about the direction of the program if VT plays in a bowl game versus if we go 5-7, but "hey, I guess at least we beat UVA."
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I'm with @steventheking here... UVA isn't a rivalry. We beat them all the time. So what if we lose this year. Let's get to a bowl, get 2-3 weeks of extra practice and continue making progress.
Also, let's beat LOLUVA!!
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This is tough, I dont like our coach having a losing record to UVA. Had we played last year and won then bowl game, probably. But having a coach that's never had a losing record to UVA is always a good thing.
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Like others have said, beating UVa is important for in-state perceptions and recruiting. Plus, it's a rivalry game and I want it. It means, you know, a little more. It's probably the easiest of the three to win.
Still, we want to go to a bowl, so that's the priority, however we get there.
Each week, the goal resets to going 1-0 that week.
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Threads like this make me think there are people in here who would sacrifice a chance at a national title if it meant we never lost to UVa.
Beating them is fun but the rivalry completely loses it's edge if we never lose. And if we keep benchmarking ourselves against them every year, it would be good if they weren't complete levels of dogshit.
As for the 'we need to win to keep up the recruiting', yeah, no. If on field results mattered, UNC wouldn't have been eating our lunch on the recruiting trail those late Beamer and early Fuente years. Winning is rarely the absolute most important thing in recruiting, especially now with NIL.
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Threads like this make me think there are people in here who would sacrifice a chance at a national title if it meant we never lost to UVa.
I have no problem with that. With the way the field is stacked, we don't have a shot anymore at a national championship. I'll gladly give that away if it ensures we'll never lose to UVA-C again.
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I'm taking the Natty to be honest. We can't beat UVA every year, even though we have had long stretches of wins, we are bound to lose to them now and then. And lets be honest, if we were guaranteed a win against them every year then it would just get boring. It is better for us when that game is competitive and means something.
Edit: To add to this, I think I am on the go 2-1 and go bowling train even if we lost to UVA. I think starting up a new bowl streak ASAP should be a program priority.
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We've beaten UVA 60 times. It's not that special anymore, to be honest. I'd rather win a natty. We'll have plenty of opportunities to school UVA in the future.
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Gimme the bowl game. I love to beat UVA but so what if they get one this year to make themselves feel better. I have no doubt that we will get back to dominating them year in and year.
Now I know WVU isn't on the schedule but replace them with UVA and this question is a whole lot easier. Gimme that win over WVU.
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Going to a bowl and it's not even close. No one outside of VA or alumni care if we beat UVA. Media, most recruits, and general CFB fans will pay more attention to us if we go to a bowl. Plus the xtra practice is incredibly helpful
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We beat them silly for 15 straight years. Losing to them this season doesn't matter. Recruits don't give a damn whether we beat LOLUVA or not. To pick beating them at the cost of a bowl (extra practices, media exposure, fun for player/morale booster) is, quite frankly, foolish.
If we miss a bowl but beat UVA this season that could be considered a major failure.
Shoot higher than beating the little brother. Let's get to some postseason football.
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Sort of surprised at the range of answers here... like this is even a question? Maybe the answers are different based on whether people grew up in Virginia or not? Anyway, it is simple... the answer is ALWAYS beat UVA over everything else.
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I grew up in VA and from a die hard hokie family. VT being better is more important than beating a lousy ass UVA program that's been beaten so horribly in the series that it's just an expectation.
VT getting better in this case is getting to a bowl with our young roster and staff any additional practice and game you can get is vital.
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Grew up in Roanoke and have followed VT Football since I was a kid.
I would rather go bowling and lose to UVa.
I think one thing to consider is perspective--I attended VT during the beginning of the 15-Win streak...so while the hate for UVa is there, I hardly consider them a rival because beating them has almost been an afterthought for so long. For most of my adult Fandom, we have eaten the Cavs lunch and taken their lunch money.
Miami was honestly a more heated rivalry in my mind because there was suspense associated with the games and a sense of uncertainty going into them.
For fans from different generations, it certainly might be different.
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Hmm... I'm thinking the beat UVA camp is in the minority (shocks me)... you guys care who more about extra practices... this is bizzare to me... but, half of my family is from Michigan and I grew up seeing what that rivalry is like... never heard a UM fan talk about getting more practices rather than beating Ohio State.
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If VT could even have half the success/talent UM or OSU have had historically, we may feel different too. But those programs are worlds apart from ours.
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I agree about the importance of rivalry, but UM-OSU should be the equivalent of VT-Miami. UVA is little brother in the analogy. I say 2-1 because I do think bowling again is the more important recruiting pitch, we need to show we are building something and not just the slightly better of two bad teams.
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Beating LOLUVa is a bare minimum goal each season. Considering we started the year trying to eclipse 3 wins, I'd say this is a bare minimum type of season. Pry will have a full offseason trying to recruit VA kids to his team and if we can't even beat our in state rival when they suck I don't see how that makes his job easier. No one expected a bowl trip this year so failing to accomplish that isn't falling short of expectations. Losing to LOLUVa is.
If I'm limited to these two choices, then you keep the commonwealth cup in Blacksburg and go back to the rebuild. Obviously I want a bowl game AND beating LOLUVa and I don't think that's an unreasonable ask.
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I was working with some recruiters for a prestigious consulting company (as an employee of said company). UVA had this program where their business school grads (undergrad) worked at a company for I think it was a semester. They thought they were worth so much more and should be paid way more than grads from other schools. The recruiters told me they hated dealing with the UVA grads and generally wouldn't hire them (didn't like even interviewing them).
Yeah, maybe we're used to beating them, it hardly seems like a rivalry, but no way in hell do I want to lose to them!
I don't like the binary nature of the question. I'd rather beat loluva and win one of the other two games (which seems like a more likely scenario anyway (and possibly win all three)).
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If our double-digit winning streak against UVA was still strong this wouldn't take any time for me to answer that beating UVA is the one and only answer. But that streak got botched under Fuente and right now the bowl game and the extra practice that comes with it is more valuable.
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If I had to pick one it would be going bowling, which would mean we'd get bowl eligibility before playing UVA. So I'd use the UVA game to rest our starters and see what we have in our true freshmen without burning redshirts. Then when we lose, they only beat us because we only played underclassmen. And if we still win anyways, we get to laugh at them because we only played underclassmen.
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We can't improve recruiting if we keep losing to shit teams like UVA. Bottom line. Take the logo off the helmet- they are a dogshit 2 win team. They are awful. You don't get better players by losing to shit teams, you don't. Purdue is a shit 2 win team too. We simply can not keep losing to dog teams. - UVA or not.
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well technically speaking, WINNING the bowl could help recruiting- a smidge. If you beat a peer team in a bowl game, it gives the program some momentum and positive vibes. Losing to NCSU at this point is not as embarrassing as losing to UVA- NCSU is a decent team at least. BC is between the 2- I think they stink, but they will probably go bowling. But overall- none of it means shit if you somehow beat NCSU and BC, but lose to ANOTHER dog shit team and lose the bowl. Zero positivity in that scenario- and screams "we are a bad team"
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Losing the bowl game wouldn't be great, but we still get the 15 extra practices which doesn't hurt a team bringing almost all of our players back.
I also don't think recruits care that much about wins and losses. They certainly don't care if we beat UVA or not. They'll see we won 3 games last year and then doubled that and made the post season this year. "cool, looks like they're improving". That's pretty much it.
I'm not disagreeing with your central point that we need to stop losing to bad teams, but I don't think recruits care that much or even pay that much attention to the individual games that don't get any hype.
Recruits would have noticed if we'd beaten Louisville or FSU. Other than that I doubt they care who we beat or didn't. They just want to see that we need them so they have a path to getting on the field and impressing NFL scouts.
Hell, maybe if a recruit was choosing between Tech and UVA, the head to head winner might matter. It shouldn't though, if they're paying attention.
Not like tons of next level talent is a coin flip between us and UVA.
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Recruits absolutely will care if our resume in 2023 includes losing to the worst team in the ACC, the worst team in the B1G and the second worse team in the Sunbelt. 100% coaches will use that brutal resume to negative recruit. It's a horrid resume, and if we lose to UVA, no clear sign we have improved all that much. A couple of wins against Wake and Pitt don't cancel that out.
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I do, yes. Outside of going to the NFL and fancy dorms and food, Recruits want to be part of a winning culture. They want to see hope at least. Losing your last game to the worst team in the ACC is none of that. We simply have to stop losing to dogshit teams. I don't know why people can't see this? Or get upset when people justify such losses "ODU's receivers were tall, UVA is scrappy, etc". It is not helping any aspect of the program to lose to Marshall- who has 1 win in the sunbelt. Or UVA that has 1 win in the ACC, etc. These are horrific losses that need to go away before we are any good.
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I get your point, but going to a bowl game is the epitome of building a winning culture. Now the two do go hand in hand. Stop losing to shitty teams = more wins = bowl eligibility. But the question that was posed in this thread is become bowl eligible or beat UVA. Bowl eligibility goes a hell of a lot further towards a winning culture than beating shitty UVA.
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Most people couldn't care less how good any of those are, and none of them are world beaters.
Winning any two of those and going to a bowl game is better than losing two and not going to a bowl game. Remember when VT had a bowl streak going? It's time to start another one of those.
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Yes, and going to a bowl game means more wins, which is better and closer to a "winning culture" than beating the little brother and missing a bowl game/going under .500
Alum was right, I see a natty being sacrificed at the expense of beating the Hoos...Y'all making this argument are wild and it makes no sense to me, but to each their own.
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Of course we should be going to bowls. We did that 30 years straight. Beamer consistently beat bad teams. Like a drum. There were some clunkers- JMU, a couple ECU games etc. But he beat dogshit teams with regularity and wow looky here, we went to 30 straight bowls. Nobody argues that VT should be not be trying to get to a bowl. Nobody said that. My point - and opinion- just to clear THAT up- my opinion is losing to shit teams is different. Shows a bigger problem with the program. I also don't know of any program that re-built itself by picking off ranked teams, but losing to the dogshit of college football. I honestly can't think of one. My logic and opinion is that for VT football to be "back" to be "good" consistently it starts with beating last place sun belt teams before we pick off clemson and FSU. I won't mention that strings of shit losses are what get coaches fired. Strings of shit losses compound the programs poor image, etc. Thank god you can beat shitty uva and go to a bowl as well- that would be the idea. We only did it for 30 years.
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Holy straw man, batman. No one is sacrificing nattys to beat the hoos. Show me one school with a winning culture that is ok with losing to their in state rivals? Even though it doesn't keep them out of the SEC championship game, UGa still makes sure they beat GT (most of the time) and that's hardly a rivalry of equals.
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it's a pretty big leap from "would you rather beat UVA to finish 5-7 or lose to uva but finish 6-6" to "sacrifice a national championship for beating UVA"
in this season, I think it's more important for Pry and his coaches to beat UVA for their first time than to go bowling. Either way, we've had a better season than the 3-8 dumpster fire last year. We've still shown progress. I think winning the last game of the season, against UVA, is more important than getting to a shitty version of one of 12846239 bowls.
I think the extra practices are overblown and instead of prepping for a bowl game the coaches could be focusing on evaluations and figuring out a way to improve the roster for 2024.
Ideally, we'll win two more games, at least, INCLUDING against UVA. But in 2023, after the season we've had, I think ending on a winning note against UVA is more important than losing to UVA but getting to Andy's Oil Change and Tire Rotation Services Bowl brought to you by Spurtle. Which is why, for this season alone, I'd rather beat UVA to get to 5-7 than lose to them to finish 6-6.
If you asked me if I would rather Win a National Champion ship but lose to UVA or beat UVA and lose a National Championship I'm taking the Championship every single time. But that's not the case this year. Not even close.
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We have one home game remaining and have looked mostly incompetent at away games. So I am thinking we win one more game, and it won't be in Lane North. Hoping I am wrong. (I once thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken...)
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Obviously you would like to win out, but the correct answer in this situation is 2-1 and bowl game. This team would greatly benefit from the extra practices.
Those who say say elsewise just can't wait to type out "LOLOLOLUVA" across all their social medias, when in reality, no one outside of Hokie fans gives a shit. Yes it would be bad to lose to this UVA team, but making it to a bowl for the younger players is the greater of the two IMO
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Going bowling would be nice, but the answer is beating UVA. The essence of college football isn't going to bowl games, it's beating your regional rival. The only reason college sports exist is because Rutgers and Princeton decided to settle it on the field. Virginia Tech football only exists to beat the snot out of UVA. Everything else is just a bonus.
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If UVA was even halfway decent this season, this question might be a bit more challenging. But given our current team and the fact that they are even worse, then I'll go keggling.
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Louisville came out flat and uva accidentally scored 21 points in 3 minutes. They're better than they were at the beginning of the year but they're not good.
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Comments
Beat UVA, how is this a question?
Well, the question mark did most of the heavy lifting.
I think there's some validity to the hypothetical. Bowl week would provide more valuable practice time and the staff can sell a bowl turnaround in year 2 to recruits.
Sure, but why not both? Let's say we split the next two. Beating uva to make it to the post season would be fantastic
I feel like - given the recruiting strategy is to dominate VA - we have to beat UVA. I think 5 wins and winning the commonwealth cup has more long term impact than losing the cup but playing an extra exhibition game.
Beat uva. Next.
Beat uva. 5 wins is still improvement from last year. Beating uva is critically important
Beat uva is always the answer but we'll beat BC too so why not both?
Are you people serious?
Beat NC State and BC, finish 2-1 and go bowling.
Have a decent shot of going 7-6 with a win in a piss-ant bowl game too. How can you want 5-7 over 7-6 or even 6-7 with the extra practice in there?
Beating uva is that important
I'll take a winning record and loss to UVa over a losing record and beating UVa any year. Now granted, if it was 5-7 beating UVa and 6-7 assuming we lose the bowl game, I'll take the UVa win and 5-7. But I want the team to be as good as possible and not care about losing to UVa.
Now the worst thing would be to be 5-6 and lose to UVa and get knocked out of bowl contention because of it. Oh man, I said it. No jinxes here, please.
IMO it's really not, especially where we are as a football program... get to 6 wins, get an extra month of practice in prep for a bowl game. Much better than going 5-7, missing a bowl game and seeing copious amounts of "HAHAHA LOLUVA" on Twitter. It's not going to hurt recruiting as people make it out to be and we aren't always going to beat them.
More reps for these young players is most important.
Agree...with a Team this young those Bowl practices do have real value.
Also, watching NCSU v. Miami right now...the Pack D looks alot like Louisville...DL that appears stout and gets up the field, Wilson is a real difference maker @ MLB. After the OL's
"performance" today...my confidence is waning for that matchup.
Beat BC, beat Uva and go bowling.
Counter: Losing to UVA hurts us in VA recruiting. We need to assert our dominance and remind everyone that VT will once again be the #1 program in VA (currently we're #2).
Not to mention that losing to UVA would be a bad loss, arguably the second worse loss of the Pry era, behind ODU in 2022.
The 15 extra practices would be nice, but they're not program altering.
If one loss to UVA is going to submarine our In-state recruiting then we have much bigger problems.
Plus we've lost to Marshall this year, so any damage with "bad losses" has already been done.
Based on the trajectory of the Programs,I am confident that we will consistently beat UVa for the foreseeable future, making a Bowl I think fulfils a more immediate goal and need of this rebuild effort.
Plus, you have consistently tooted the horn that recruits don't really care about team records and focus on whether you can convince them that you can get them to the NFL and their NIL potential. So lose to UVa but offer an extra $10k and all should be solved, no?
Feels like you're kinda trying to play both sides here.
Not to mention that we are probably the #3 program in the state now. Liberty and JMU are both better. Don't care that we beat Liberty last year. Pittsburgh beat Louisville this year and no way are they better, overall, than Louisville.
I went to Jmu and have watched most of their games. I'm not convinced VT would not beat Jmu or liberty. Maybe in the beginning of the year we lose, but not now. Record aside, look at their schedule and how they performed against p5 and i think you'll figure out why it took so long for them to get pressured to rank them.
Sorry for the delayed response! A very fair question.
I don't think one loss to UVA will hurt our recruiting that much, just like I don't think that one additional win will help recruiting that much.
From what I've gathered, our recruiting pitch is basically the same as UVA's:
Now, we all know that UVA can/will never be great, but recruits may not feel that we. I just think that part of our messaging rings hollow if we don't beat UVA.
Also, I hate UVA, and would rather beat them and lose to BC/NCst. So maybe I'm biased and just finding a reason to support my belief rather than the opposite.
Son, you are considering VT? They lost last year to 2 win purdue, 3 win Marshall and 2 win UVA. Seriously? 3 of the worst teams in Division 1. That's my pitch when recruiting against VT- they lost often to absolute dogshit teams.
Kids don't care about that. It's easy as shit to spin it back: "be a part of bringing VT back to greatness". This kids have been playing organized sports for most of their lives, they've all lost a game they shouldn't, and probably beat some teams they shouldn't. They aren't so ignorant that they think because a team lost a couple games the year before that those losses will have any bearing on future seasons. It means nothing and they know it.
High school football players pick a school based on:
Name recognition
Rankings
NFL
Maybe overall record, not that much though
Competition (big games against big time opponents)
The fact that we play shitty teams in future seasons impacts recruiting way more that the actual outcome of those games.
You keep harping on how losing to uva or Purdue hurts recruiting and you are wrong. No high school kids care, if we can show them how we need them and it'll be good for them to come to Tech.
We don't get beat out by Georgia for players because we lost to ODU last year. We lose out because they're Georgia and we're not. They don't really care about past seasons as much as future potential, I guarantee it. Unless past seasons include a championship, of course.
Son, are you considering VT? They've played for one national championship 25 years ago and they lost. They haven't won the ACC since 2010.
Wow, that was a lot easier and more effective than trying to convince a kid he shouldn't play for tech because they lost to one particular team in a previous season.
Win games. Don't care who we beat or who we lose to but get the number of wins going up and get recruits. 7-5 is a lot easier to sell then 5-7 any day.
We will never agree that the ODU loss did not hurt VT recruiting in a big way- it did hurt it 100%
If a player was going to commit to VT but then changed his mind because of the result of one football game, then that kid is an idiot and I'm glad he didn't come to Tech.
Bigger picture... we were clowned on national TV by ODU as a 28 point favorite. If that doesn't show the world you aren't serious about football, nothing will. And the recruiting results have proven it.
Winning more games proves we're serious. Thus winning more games is paramount above winning pointless rivalries no one cares about but us.
I.e. my original point.
Okay, we lost to ODU, but we won this year. Not a blowout, but we won. We turned around a season a lot of people probably wondered if we'd win another game after Marshall, then we curb stomped our in-state rival by the highest score ever in the matchup.
I'm not sure how we played ODU a year or two ago matters ("look how we"re trending, we didn't plateau with that loss to ODU"). The message is: "We aren't the same team that lost to ODU - after changing QBs and opening the playbook, we beat all the teams we really should have and in progressively improved fashion. Now we need better players to go after those teams we lost against (more in line with the FSUs and Louisvilles, because we sure as hell would beat Marshall if we played them again with our current roster)."
Didn't it help us get some ODU players?
Seriously, I don't think that one loss made any difference. I think some may not have been impressed with the overall record, for someone who didn't necessarily want to be a part of a rebuild.
The argument gets better as VT continues to show improvement. It's a program moving in the right direction.
I mean the Women's Basketball Team and the Wrestling Team are really putting their thumb in the eye of a lot of recruiting excuses. Seems like winning is what brings all the boys to the yard.
Milkshakes also bring the boys to the yard so we should get a milkshake machine.
Doesn't seem like you'd have adequate refrigeration in the yard. I'd recommend putting the shake machine indoors.
Our IT department has a slushy machine.
1) Do you have coke slushies?
2) if so are you hiring?
Dairy Club doing their part at Basketball games.
Yes, and I don't think either will lose to last place UVA. Or Marshall or Rutgers.
smh bowl-eligible rutgers out here catchin strays
And rightfully so with wins over Temple, NW, VT, Wagner, Indiana, and dumpster fire Sparty. Rightfully so.
Must be nice to beat the teams you're supposed to
Amen. Rutgers and FSU have comparable resumes- beaten nobody. I am intrigued at the noles playoff game- see if they can compete with someone other than 4 loss LSU at the top level. Michigan's scheduled equally absurd.
If Michigan beats Penn State and Ohio State, they'll have played someone.
Now do this with UNC or Miami, or UGA when Richt was there, or with any Lane Kiffin or Lincoln Riley coached team. It's a talking point, sure, but it does not significantly affect teams or coaches that can recruit at a high level.
(currently we're #2)
But enough about our OL.
Whoops didnt read where HokieinFL already beat me to the point about your stance on recruits not caring about wins/losses. Carry on fam
Not cutting my nose off to spite my face. 2-1 to make it to a bowl
Win 6 and make a bowl. I'm tired of losing and there's nothing sadder than being obsessed with a rivalry between two garbage teams that no one else cares about.
I'd be much more optimistic about the direction of the program if VT plays in a bowl game versus if we go 5-7, but "hey, I guess at least we beat UVA."
I'm with @steventheking here... UVA isn't a rivalry. We beat them all the time. So what if we lose this year. Let's get to a bowl, get 2-3 weeks of extra practice and continue making progress.
Also, let's beat LOLUVA!!
This is tough, I dont like our coach having a losing record to UVA. Had we played last year and won then bowl game, probably. But having a coach that's never had a losing record to UVA is always a good thing.
True, but at one point Beamer was 0-3 and 1-5 vs UVA and that turned out pretty well.
Beat UVa and win (at least) one of the other two.
Just Do It.
Like others have said, beating UVa is important for in-state perceptions and recruiting. Plus, it's a rivalry game and I want it. It means, you know, a little more. It's probably the easiest of the three to win.
Still, we want to go to a bowl, so that's the priority, however we get there.
Each week, the goal resets to going 1-0 that week.
Easy choice for me, go bowling.
This is the answer and I don't care which 2 teams we beat to get there. Need a road win though as a bowl game isn't played at home.
We have two home games left, one at Lane and one at Lane North
This is much like the cake or pie argument; bowling or just beat loluva?
I'm team 'beat loluva'
Threads like this make me think there are people in here who would sacrifice a chance at a national title if it meant we never lost to UVa.
Beating them is fun but the rivalry completely loses it's edge if we never lose. And if we keep benchmarking ourselves against them every year, it would be good if they weren't complete levels of dogshit.
As for the 'we need to win to keep up the recruiting', yeah, no. If on field results mattered, UNC wouldn't have been eating our lunch on the recruiting trail those late Beamer and early Fuente years. Winning is rarely the absolute most important thing in recruiting, especially now with NIL.
I have no problem with that. With the way the field is stacked, we don't have a shot anymore at a national championship. I'll gladly give that away if it ensures we'll never lose to UVA-C again.
What if losing to UVA guarantees a natty (somehow, in this hypothetical world)? Does that change your math?
I'm taking the Natty to be honest. We can't beat UVA every year, even though we have had long stretches of wins, we are bound to lose to them now and then. And lets be honest, if we were guaranteed a win against them every year then it would just get boring. It is better for us when that game is competitive and means something.
Edit: To add to this, I think I am on the go 2-1 and go bowling train even if we lost to UVA. I think starting up a new bowl streak ASAP should be a program priority.
This is the only answer that makes sense to me.
We've beaten UVA 60 times. It's not that special anymore, to be honest. I'd rather win a natty. We'll have plenty of opportunities to school UVA in the future.
There is no scenario, even hypothetical, that could provide that. So, no.
I don't understand the question and I won't respond to it
Good call.
It's a false choice which can be reduced to "How much to you hate UVa?"
I'm taking the bowl game and the extra practices. Every little bit helps when you're in a rebuild.
Easier for me to say because I don't live in Virginia though.
Gimme the bowl game. I love to beat UVA but so what if they get one this year to make themselves feel better. I have no doubt that we will get back to dominating them year in and year.
Now I know WVU isn't on the schedule but replace them with UVA and this question is a whole lot easier. Gimme that win over WVU.
Bowl game. No one questions if UVA it's a better football school than VT. Extra practice time and accelerate the rebuild at any given opportunity.
Why can't we just win all three? /s
If the streak were intact I'd say beat loluva...for this team, give me 2-1 and a bowl...lord knows they need more reps.
trick question, 3-0 bro
Going to a bowl and it's not even close. No one outside of VA or alumni care if we beat UVA. Media, most recruits, and general CFB fans will pay more attention to us if we go to a bowl. Plus the xtra practice is incredibly helpful
We beat them silly for 15 straight years. Losing to them this season doesn't matter. Recruits don't give a damn whether we beat LOLUVA or not. To pick beating them at the cost of a bowl (extra practices, media exposure, fun for player/morale booster) is, quite frankly, foolish.
If we miss a bowl but beat UVA this season that could be considered a major failure.
Shoot higher than beating the little brother. Let's get to some postseason football.
I hope VT does not have to treat the UVA game as their bowl game. That's a fairly crappy consolation prize.
So, in this scenario, it's 2-1 with the Hokies not needing the UVA game to make it to the post-season.
Sort of surprised at the range of answers here... like this is even a question? Maybe the answers are different based on whether people grew up in Virginia or not? Anyway, it is simple... the answer is ALWAYS beat UVA over everything else.
I grew up in VA and from a die hard hokie family. VT being better is more important than beating a lousy ass UVA program that's been beaten so horribly in the series that it's just an expectation.
VT getting better in this case is getting to a bowl with our young roster and staff any additional practice and game you can get is vital.
Grew up in Roanoke and have followed VT Football since I was a kid.
I would rather go bowling and lose to UVa.
I think one thing to consider is perspective--I attended VT during the beginning of the 15-Win streak...so while the hate for UVa is there, I hardly consider them a rival because beating them has almost been an afterthought for so long. For most of my adult Fandom, we have eaten the Cavs lunch and taken their lunch money.
Miami was honestly a more heated rivalry in my mind because there was suspense associated with the games and a sense of uncertainty going into them.
For fans from different generations, it certainly might be different.
It's a trick question, because the most important game to win is always the one we're playing this week.
Pry is disappointed in all of us
2-1.
I don't care about the bowl game itself. It is all about the 15 practices.
Bowl practices are normally a time to focus on the younger players. We want to see that jump in year 3, so we want those practices.
To those of you who would rather beat UVA then have the extra game/practices:
Hmm... I'm thinking the beat UVA camp is in the minority (shocks me)... you guys care who more about extra practices... this is bizzare to me... but, half of my family is from Michigan and I grew up seeing what that rivalry is like... never heard a UM fan talk about getting more practices rather than beating Ohio State.
If VT could even have half the success/talent UM or OSU have had historically, we may feel different too. But those programs are worlds apart from ours.
I agree about the importance of rivalry, but UM-OSU should be the equivalent of VT-Miami. UVA is little brother in the analogy. I say 2-1 because I do think bowling again is the more important recruiting pitch, we need to show we are building something and not just the slightly better of two bad teams.
In this analogy, UVA is Michigan State, 49-0 and all.
Beating LOLUVa is a bare minimum goal each season. Considering we started the year trying to eclipse 3 wins, I'd say this is a bare minimum type of season. Pry will have a full offseason trying to recruit VA kids to his team and if we can't even beat our in state rival when they suck I don't see how that makes his job easier. No one expected a bowl trip this year so failing to accomplish that isn't falling short of expectations. Losing to LOLUVa is.
If I'm limited to these two choices, then you keep the commonwealth cup in Blacksburg and go back to the rebuild. Obviously I want a bowl game AND beating LOLUVa and I don't think that's an unreasonable ask.
Bowling for sure, Uva is quickly becoming zero threat to recruiting without us needing to beat them.
Pick one?
I was working with some recruiters for a prestigious consulting company (as an employee of said company). UVA had this program where their business school grads (undergrad) worked at a company for I think it was a semester. They thought they were worth so much more and should be paid way more than grads from other schools. The recruiters told me they hated dealing with the UVA grads and generally wouldn't hire them (didn't like even interviewing them).
Yeah, maybe we're used to beating them, it hardly seems like a rivalry, but no way in hell do I want to lose to them!
I don't like the binary nature of the question. I'd rather beat loluva and win one of the other two games (which seems like a more likely scenario anyway (and possibly win all three)).
No one ever wins at would you rather. Just don't.
Win two games. Go to a bowl. Beat UVA.
Win bowl.
This is the way.
I don't see any way we could beat either BC or NC State and lose to LOLUVA. UVA is probably the worst team we will play this year.
Yet somehow, they beat Carolina. So don't sleep on them.
or did Carolina beat themselves?
UVA couldn't stop GT's water boy from running for 127 yards.
They also should've beat NCST and JMU. For the first month of the season I was convinced they were a better team than us.
The way things have gone since then (plus 20 years of history) has me feeling better, but by no means are they a cake walk for us.
If our double-digit winning streak against UVA was still strong this wouldn't take any time for me to answer that beating UVA is the one and only answer. But that streak got botched under Fuente and right now the bowl game and the extra practice that comes with it is more valuable.
the next 15 year streak starts with winning the next game.
Joe this morning
I also thought this might be a FMK kind of question and thought the only good answers depends on if it's possible to F one to death.
Death by snu snu.
The spirit is willing, but the flesh is spongy and bruised.
If I had to pick one it would be going bowling, which would mean we'd get bowl eligibility before playing UVA. So I'd use the UVA game to rest our starters and see what we have in our true freshmen without burning redshirts. Then when we lose, they only beat us because we only played underclassmen. And if we still win anyways, we get to laugh at them because we only played underclassmen.
We can't improve recruiting if we keep losing to shit teams like UVA. Bottom line. Take the logo off the helmet- they are a dogshit 2 win team. They are awful. You don't get better players by losing to shit teams, you don't. Purdue is a shit 2 win team too. We simply can not keep losing to dog teams. - UVA or not.
Right, but the original question was beat UVA but lose the other two or win the other two but lose to UVA.
Do you think beating UVA but losing to NCST and BC is better for recruiting than losing to UVA, but beating the other two and going to a bowl?
No.
Win the most games.
well technically speaking, WINNING the bowl could help recruiting- a smidge. If you beat a peer team in a bowl game, it gives the program some momentum and positive vibes. Losing to NCSU at this point is not as embarrassing as losing to UVA- NCSU is a decent team at least. BC is between the 2- I think they stink, but they will probably go bowling. But overall- none of it means shit if you somehow beat NCSU and BC, but lose to ANOTHER dog shit team and lose the bowl. Zero positivity in that scenario- and screams "we are a bad team"
BC is sitting at 6-3. They are going bowling.
my bad. I thought they sat at 5 wins.
Losing the bowl game wouldn't be great, but we still get the 15 extra practices which doesn't hurt a team bringing almost all of our players back.
I also don't think recruits care that much about wins and losses. They certainly don't care if we beat UVA or not. They'll see we won 3 games last year and then doubled that and made the post season this year. "cool, looks like they're improving". That's pretty much it.
I'm not disagreeing with your central point that we need to stop losing to bad teams, but I don't think recruits care that much or even pay that much attention to the individual games that don't get any hype.
Recruits would have noticed if we'd beaten Louisville or FSU. Other than that I doubt they care who we beat or didn't. They just want to see that we need them so they have a path to getting on the field and impressing NFL scouts.
Hell, maybe if a recruit was choosing between Tech and UVA, the head to head winner might matter. It shouldn't though, if they're paying attention.
Not like tons of next level talent is a coin flip between us and UVA.
Recruits absolutely will care if our resume in 2023 includes losing to the worst team in the ACC, the worst team in the B1G and the second worse team in the Sunbelt. 100% coaches will use that brutal resume to negative recruit. It's a horrid resume, and if we lose to UVA, no clear sign we have improved all that much. A couple of wins against Wake and Pitt don't cancel that out.
So the two scenarios in this discussion are:
We are 6-6 (really 7-6 or 6-7 depending on the bowl game) with a loss to UVA.
Or, we are 5-7 with a win over UVA and no bowl game.
You think the latter scenario is better for recruiting than the former because UVA is bad.
I do, yes. Outside of going to the NFL and fancy dorms and food, Recruits want to be part of a winning culture. They want to see hope at least. Losing your last game to the worst team in the ACC is none of that. We simply have to stop losing to dogshit teams. I don't know why people can't see this? Or get upset when people justify such losses "ODU's receivers were tall, UVA is scrappy, etc". It is not helping any aspect of the program to lose to Marshall- who has 1 win in the sunbelt. Or UVA that has 1 win in the ACC, etc. These are horrific losses that need to go away before we are any good.
I agree with the idea that we shouldn't lose to bad teams, but I also think 7-6 is better than 5-7 no matter who's on the schedule. Call me crazy.
Plus an extra 15 practices. I think that's the most important part of this equation.
Agreed, especially with so many players coming back.
Building a winning, respectable program: Step 1. Stop losing to the very worst teams in college football.
I'm guess we need to agree to disagree, but I have a different opinion on this:
Step 1: Win as many games as possible.
I get your point, but going to a bowl game is the epitome of building a winning culture. Now the two do go hand in hand. Stop losing to shitty teams = more wins = bowl eligibility. But the question that was posed in this thread is become bowl eligible or beat UVA. Bowl eligibility goes a hell of a lot further towards a winning culture than beating shitty UVA.
We're talking BC, NC State, and UVa.
Most people couldn't care less how good any of those are, and none of them are world beaters.
Winning any two of those and going to a bowl game is better than losing two and not going to a bowl game. Remember when VT had a bowl streak going? It's time to start another one of those.
Yes, and going to a bowl game means more wins, which is better and closer to a "winning culture" than beating the little brother and missing a bowl game/going under .500
Alum was right, I see a natty being sacrificed at the expense of beating the Hoos...Y'all making this argument are wild and it makes no sense to me, but to each their own.
Of course we should be going to bowls. We did that 30 years straight. Beamer consistently beat bad teams. Like a drum. There were some clunkers- JMU, a couple ECU games etc. But he beat dogshit teams with regularity and wow looky here, we went to 30 straight bowls. Nobody argues that VT should be not be trying to get to a bowl. Nobody said that. My point - and opinion- just to clear THAT up- my opinion is losing to shit teams is different. Shows a bigger problem with the program. I also don't know of any program that re-built itself by picking off ranked teams, but losing to the dogshit of college football. I honestly can't think of one. My logic and opinion is that for VT football to be "back" to be "good" consistently it starts with beating last place sun belt teams before we pick off clemson and FSU. I won't mention that strings of shit losses are what get coaches fired. Strings of shit losses compound the programs poor image, etc. Thank god you can beat shitty uva and go to a bowl as well- that would be the idea. We only did it for 30 years.
Holy straw man, batman. No one is sacrificing nattys to beat the hoos. Show me one school with a winning culture that is ok with losing to their in state rivals? Even though it doesn't keep them out of the SEC championship game, UGa still makes sure they beat GT (most of the time) and that's hardly a rivalry of equals.
it's a pretty big leap from "would you rather beat UVA to finish 5-7 or lose to uva but finish 6-6" to "sacrifice a national championship for beating UVA"
in this season, I think it's more important for Pry and his coaches to beat UVA for their first time than to go bowling. Either way, we've had a better season than the 3-8 dumpster fire last year. We've still shown progress. I think winning the last game of the season, against UVA, is more important than getting to a shitty version of one of 12846239 bowls.
I think the extra practices are overblown and instead of prepping for a bowl game the coaches could be focusing on evaluations and figuring out a way to improve the roster for 2024.
Ideally, we'll win two more games, at least, INCLUDING against UVA. But in 2023, after the season we've had, I think ending on a winning note against UVA is more important than losing to UVA but getting to Andy's Oil Change and Tire Rotation Services Bowl brought to you by Spurtle. Which is why, for this season alone, I'd rather beat UVA to get to 5-7 than lose to them to finish 6-6.
If you asked me if I would rather Win a National Champion ship but lose to UVA or beat UVA and lose a National Championship I'm taking the Championship every single time. But that's not the case this year. Not even close.
We have one home game remaining and have looked mostly incompetent at away games. So I am thinking we win one more game, and it won't be in Lane North. Hoping I am wrong. (I once thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken...)
Obviously you would like to win out, but the correct answer in this situation is 2-1 and bowl game. This team would greatly benefit from the extra practices.
Those who say say elsewise just can't wait to type out "LOLOLOLUVA" across all their social medias, when in reality, no one outside of Hokie fans gives a shit. Yes it would be bad to lose to this UVA team, but making it to a bowl for the younger players is the greater of the two IMO
We can also still lol at them for missing a bowl.
Going bowling would be nice, but the answer is beating UVA. The essence of college football isn't going to bowl games, it's beating your regional rival. The only reason college sports exist is because Rutgers and Princeton decided to settle it on the field. Virginia Tech football only exists to beat the snot out of UVA. Everything else is just a bonus.
correct
Here, here!
If UVA was even halfway decent this season, this question might be a bit more challenging. But given our current team and the fact that they are even worse, then I'll go keggling.
Is that where you go Krogering and buy a keg?
It's actually where you go Krogering, but you set up 10 kegs at the end of an aisle and roll a turkey to try and knock them all over.
Not to be confused with kegeling.... I would likely always choose a good kegeling...
Update: they may be better than us despite the records as they were a guerando run away from beating Louisville on the road
UVA didn't look terrible against Tennessee either. I have a bad feeling about this year.
They're probably better than their record, so don't sleep on them.
Especially since this is definitely their bowl game, and will also be ours if we don't win at least two of our remaining three games.
Louisville came out flat and uva accidentally scored 21 points in 3 minutes. They're better than they were at the beginning of the year but they're not good.
Post BC game update:
One down, two to go.
If we play like we did yesterday, both are very winnable.
If Hokies and UNC win out, Miami beats Louisville.....the comedy is the Hokies go to ACC CG.
I doubt Miami can beat Louisville with Williams breaking his arm but hey we can dream right?
Is van dyke out for the year?
How do the tie breakers work?
Common opponent record is first tie breaker. We would be 3-0 if we win out, UNC wins out and Louisville loses to Miami creating three way tie.
I DONT UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION AND I WONT RESPOND TO IT
Hokies Football said why not both FAM?!
I guess we chose door 3
Behind door #3