Hey everyone. I wanted to share that Susan and I are separating. I am going to do my best to keep up VT analysis, but please bear with me as I navigate this life change. please treat her with kindness. Neither of us did anything wrong. Things just didn't work anymore.
Strain from these issues has impacted my work and participation here. Yet despite it all, I, the most pessimistic football fan in the world, had remained blissfully oblivious that my marriage ending was even a possibility. If Joe is ok with it, I may use this thread for guidance because, frankly, I don't know what the hell I am doing.
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So sorry y'all are going through that. Please take your time dealing with a difficult circumstance.
I am sorry to hear about that. You have my sympathy.
Sorry to hear French :(
sounds like you're approaching it maturely, which is the best you can do in a very tough and uncomfortable situation.
Prayers for you during this time. I am also going through this same process for the past 2 years and am here to talk if you need anything.
Sorry to hear about you too brother, i hadn't heard this news.
Sorry to hear this French. I've had several friends and family members go through this and it's not fun at all.
My advice: get a lawyer. Even if you think this should be simple and frictionless, get a lawyer. It's about having someone who is not emotionally involved advocate for you.
man life is a kick in the nuts but it goes on. I love your contributions here but you should just use this as stress relief, don't be beholden to anything beyond what you need to do to process and deal with what's in front of you.
all the best to you and Susan.
Man, what a brave admission and sorry for the tough situation. Also, kudos for the kindness and grace for all parties involved.
Prayers, and also some advice if I may:
The challenge you face, now that you have no responsibility for a partner, is to reconfigure that time and effort towards yourself and work towards being the best 'you' possible.
I call it being 'positively selfish.'
Its biblical: to paraphrase a wise retired pastor patient; the Golden Rule has TWO parts purposefully:
"Love thy neighbor....AS you love YOURSELF."
It requires a balance, and if you've ignored your own health/welfare/etc, you're breaking the rule.
You can't take care of others if you're not where you should be.
Time for you, (and her) to self-focus and spend time and effort on yourselves.
God Bless.
So sorry to hear that French.
That sucks man. Keep your head up and face each day with a purpose. There's gonna be good days and bad, and there's gonna be times when things hit you worse than others. Don't be afraid to feel bad when it hurts, but know that you'll get through it. Talk to your friends, do some fishing, keep yourself occupied the best you can. You're a good man that got dealt a bad hand. Be careful not to try and place blame or figure out all the why's and how's. Play your cards the best you can and keep moving forward. We're behind you bud.
Sorry to hear that friend. I'll be thinking of you, and I'm close enough for a visit, even if we meet halfway for lunch or something. My hopes for the best for you and Susan and her son. And while I hate to say it, the advice from above is absolutely right. Get a lawyer to help with the untangling of your lives. It's not adversarial, but protective and helpful.
man French I'm so sorry to hear that. It was one of the roughest things I'd ever been through when my ex-fiancee broke off our engagement four and a half years ago; I imagine that pales in comparison to what you're feeling at this moment.
MikeO, Fernley, and Shoog all have advice worth listening to better than anything further I could think of to say. I just wanted you to know I saw this and I'm thinking about you both.
Oh French. So sad to hear this. It's heartbreaking. I'm sorry for you and Susan.
I hope you two can get through this as amicable as possible. Tough road to hoe. Hang in there.
Embrace the 3 F's and you and Susan will get through this - Faith, Family, and Friends.
Hoping we friends here at TKP can be here for you in any way. TKP is a family of knuckleheads. We are all here for you My Man.
Sorry to hear this. It's tough times going through a breakup.
Having some experience (twice) be patient and don't react to issues on first impulse.
Hang in there.
My TKP friend, in short, you will be ok, and so will she. I'm once divorced. Time heals all.
Happy to be a listening ear.
Sorry to hear French. My thoughts are with you.
It's always tough to hear, but as one who has been through two divorces (both times with kids still in school), over time you might come to the realization that this is for the best. Probably not now while it is too raw, but in time.
While others here have suggested getting an attorney, I for one would counsel against that for right now. Getting attorneys involved right out of the gate draws battle lines that often end up costing both of you a lot of money that only goes into their pockets and can create deep, long-term chasms in your future relationship with the ex. Hopefully this can be as amicable as possible. I understand that some on this board, particularly attorneys, might not agree, but my experience (and many of my friends') has proved otherwise.
Without my knowing your personal situation, review the divorce laws from the state of domicile (easily found online), particularly re: alimony, child support, and separation of assets. On your own and using that information as guidance, write down what you think is rightfully yours and rightfully hers. See if Susan is willing to do the same on her end. Please note that often the laws, formulas, etc. are skewed in the wife's favor, and judges often immediately assume that the woman is the aggrieved party. If/when you are able to sit down with Susan, see if you both tend to agree on most, if not all, items. Chances are you will, but there will obviously be some disagreements, but I would recommend not offering anything more than you are legally required to. Hopefully, you have documentation of what were your assets prior to the marriage. The more you can work out between the two of you without attorneys, the more money and aggravation you will save in the long run. If the two of you need assistance, try mediation first before going to an attorney. If you are able to present to the judge a Separation Agreement that both of you have agreed to, in most cases the judge will rubber-stamp it as long as it is in compliance with state law.
Fortunately, I was able to navigate both divorces without hiring an attorney, and only my first wife used one nominally. In the long run, both were done relatively fairly, although it's tough to think anything is fair at first.
If alimony is in the picture, see if you can negotiate a one-time, lump sum payment (discounted for the time value of money, of course) instead of monthly payouts. I know a few divorced men who, even after several years, still get angry having to write that check every month.
If you'd like to talk offline, feel free to reach out.
I'm so sorry to hear about this, French.
I can certainly empathize as I recently went through this myself after 25 years of marriage. That is a big reason why I stepped back from TKP, and literally everything else in life, last year. It has been an incredibly long and somewhat challenging season, one that is finally behind me. Now we have some sense of our new place, both as individuals and as co-parents to some gown children. Since you asked, I'll share some thoughts...
1. No matter how things went, or will, go down, you need to make sure you have things in place for your own mental and emotional health. As stated above, make sure you are "loving yourself" along the way. I can't stress this enough. It isn't easily untangling from decades ( I don't know how long you two were together) of relationship history. Find your little network. You know, the one that reminds you of that famous Doc Holiday scene at the end of Tombstone? "Wyatt is my friend...."
2. Hire an attorney. Hire an attorney. Hire an attorney. Period. Some people can make it through the mediation process OK, and that does save quite a bit of money. Even if you go that route, things tend to get a little foggy as you're working through all the details of separation and divorce. Emotions will inevitably be stirred. Hire an attorney whichever route you decide to go. Additionally, everyone and their brother is going to have advice for you, but no one really knows. You will need an advocate. Spend the $5K or so to put someone on retainer and to have in your corner.
3. Live under, and with, grace. You will both need a whole lot of it along the way. Try to offer it as best as you can and then try to receive it from anywhere you can. This will be life for your own soul.
4. Try to figure out a way to make things move as quickly as possible. The more things drag out the longer it takes to move on and begin to live in your new reality.
I'm sure I have a thousand and one things to say, but most of that would be me projecting my own situation onto yours, which I may have done a little already. Mostly, I only know how to offer up prayers for people, so I'll do just that for you.
I haven't been through a divorce myself, but my dad went through two in my memory, both from my mom and the woman I still consider my step-mom. The biggest endorsement I can give this advice is that, from the sideline, I wish he had heard/followed this advice, especially the second time (which is the one I remember a lot better).
Hope things are leveling out.
I've been there too brother. It will feel like it's the worst case scenario and you won't get through it, but it will get better. If you need someone to talk to who's gone through something similar - amicable and just wasn't working out, I'm sure Joe can send you my contact info.
Take care of yourself first and foremost physically and mentally.
Sorry to hear that man. All the best to the both of you navigating this.
Very sorry to hear it, French. I hope in time you're able to heal and find the closure you need
So sorry French. Been there, done that. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. It's a kick in the nuts with the accuracy and power of a John Love field goal. Lots of sound advice above from people who are here to support you. You are not alone brother! It's a long journey of personal healing but always know there are better days ahead even when you can't see it yet
I'm so sorry. Having advised people who are facing extreme strife and separation in marriage from a religious standpoint (I won't go into it here but I can talk to you about it) I understand how devastating this can be.
I won't disagree with anyone who says you should talk to a lawyer, but I would like to say that there are many divorce attorneys who push for frivolous restraining orders for their own benefit. It breaks down communication, forces both parties to fight and in many cases feel that they have to be less than truthful to their own families and friends about the situation. Not only would I be on guard against this suggestion from a lawyer unless there are legit safety concerns, but if you can avoid hostility during a conversation, I would suggest that you tell Susan that some avenue of peaceful communication should always be maintained even if you both agree "space" is necessary between you.
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but from your post I sense that you would prefer reconciliation to divorce. I hope you do and I'll pray for Susan too.
Sorry to hear. Hope both of you are able to move on and be successful.
I hate to hear this. Everyone I know who has been through this says it was horrible. Hope you can get through to the other side in good shape. We will miss your input here if you can't fit us in; but do what is best for you. Concentrate on what is most important. Whether or not you involve a lawyer, you need someone you can trust to advise you. You might be too emotionally involved to be objective. Going back to my earlier comment about how horrible divorce is, all my friends have now reached a place post divorce where they are happy. Stay strong.
Sorry to hear that.
I've (fortunately) got no advice, but we are all just going through life, and all we can do is our best. Best of luck as you get through this, and thanks for participating in this community and making us all a little bit smarter.
French, this is sad to hear. I hope you get through this with as little pain as possible.
I am biased because I am a lawyer (I don't divorces - used to, but no more. I've seen them go a lot of sideways places.) Please, please, please hire an experienced divorce attorney to guide you through this.
They don't have to FIGHT or whatever. In fact, I hope they'll help to minimize conflict in the divorce.
If you need recommendations, I'd suggest deliberately calling law firms in your area that DO NOT do divorce, and then asking them if they have suggestions. When you get the same name a few times from a few different places, that's when you know you've got a good one.
Man that felt like a gut punch just to read it, I can't imagine what you are going through. I hope things work out as best they can for you two. We will all be here if you need us.
Very sorry to hear that; you both sound like very good people. Take your time making decisions and hopefully common sense will prevail throughout the process.
[My daughter and her long time significant other are breaking up...must be the season. They are both wonderful people but neither was getting everything they needed from the relationship. As she said, "I really couldn't disagree with any of his reasoning; I just wasn't as ready to give up."]
The best part about TKP is that we truly are a community. I've never met you IRL but I feel your pain in what you've written. Between this and your dad recently, French if you need anything I know this community will bend over backwards to help and guide you. Thoughts are with you friend.
French,
As many have already said, very sorry to hear this. Take the time you need, reach out to those you trust. We will be here ready to welcome you with open arms in whatever manner you choose to return when you are ready.
I have been reading this board for a long time. Recently decided to pay for a membership...before we hired JMFF. Your articles were the reason I decided to pay for the site. You are very smart French although we've never met. You will make good, sound choices because you are smart. I hope you figure this out so that you both are able to be as happy as you are able to be. Football is my passion but fishing is my disease. If you ever want to wet a line and talk I can make that happen. Good luck in this, you'll be fine.
May your disease never be healed. My first bite was 69 years ago, and while there ensued a few lulls, I'm still afflicted.
Sorry to hear about this French. Hang tough and keep yourself healthy buddy.
Sorry to hear this French. Put yourself first. Your contribution around here is appreciated.
First, know that you are loved by your friends, family, and TKP community.
Having gone through a divorce, I do have a few thoughts based on experience and based on being an attorney in a field unrelated to family law. My divorce was fairly amicable, but even though it was amicable, it was pretty difficult. Therapy has helped me quite a bit. I (like everybody) have had minor mental health issues throughout life, but many issues were amplified as a result of the separation process.
For the actual proceeding, you have two options: court or mediation. Court will have a few proceedings that end up in a state awarded judgement defining the separation of assets, alimony, child support, etc. Ultimately, the state court's system decides what they believe is the correct outcome. Mediation is a process in which you and your spouse agree to mediate with a mediator that is essentially a family law attorney that specializes in mediation and some states require the mediator to have certifications. Mediation will end in a judgment as agreed upon by the two parties, sanctified by the state. When considering between court and mediation, it depends on the complexity of the divorce, the amicability between the spouses, the costs, and whether the spouses prefer an outcome that is determined by them or by the state. Overall, mediation is way cheaper.
The other major decision is whether to hire your own attorney. For the court system, you will want your own attorney as self-representation can end very badly. For mediation, you can go either way or somewhere in the middle. The mediator can be representative of both parties and with full transparency to each party, can work through all the issues and make sure each party is fairly represented as agreed. Or, either party can hire their own attorney and work with mediator. Or, either party can hire an attorney for a specific task (for example, preparation of documents, final review of judgement, etc.).
Ultimately, my opinion is that deciding between court and mediation and representation of lawyer depends on the situation. Mediation only works, however, if both parties agree mediation is the way to go.
My former spouse and I decided to divorce via mediation. She did have her own attorney review the final judgement, but we each primarily self-represented and worked with the mediator. Overall, the process was fine. The mediator wasn't perfect, but good enough. I do have on major regret on the process and that's because the mediator's process did not account for tax implications of alimony. I would have computed different terms based on tax implications and I do think our mediator failed at helping us navigate the terms in the context of taxation and did not consider the changes from the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017, which took effect in 2018.
(Side note regarding taxation and my personal experience: My divorce was in 2020 and I personally did have a single thought about taxation of alimony. I was unaware that taxation of alimony had changed in 2018. The mediator was silent about taxation. And her general guidance on determining alimony payment was the same she had been using her entire career. But, the law permanently changed the burden of taxation from the recipient to the payer. Prior to 2018, alimony recipients were required to report their alimony income and pay a tax on it. Payers of alimony were able to write off the alimony, reducing their income. Now, recipients receive alimony income with no requirement to report or pay taxes on it and payers cannot write off the alimony. THIS IS A HUGE CHANGE.)
Last thoughts: Be deliberate when considering your financial situation after divorce. The economy sucks and is not getting any better. I personally acted like my finances would figure themselves out, but in reality I went from a dual income with a standard set of monthly payments to an alimony-reduced single income with pretty much the same amount of monthly payments.
Unfortunately the husband is usually unsuspecting. I never thought my first marriage would end (very happy 15 years into my second marriage by the way, so there is hope). We think we're doing what is needed, and blind sided. Years later it's a bit easier to understand but that doesn't make the moment easier. My only advice is to decide what is important, and let everything else fall to the side. My kids were more important than money, which made it easier to avoid lawyers. Anyway, it sucks man, but you're not alone and the future is often brighter. FWIW, my ex has said she wishes she could tell her younger self not to do it (divorce). Yours may too.
hang in there French, you are one of the Best VT Football analyst. I wish you the best and the VT Community is behind you. Take care, one day at a time.
It sucks. But just know you aren't the only one to ever go thru it. Some have more experiences and stories than others. But the sun will rise, you both have support, and moving forward at your own pace is paramount. Don't let anyone dictate you speed of dealing w things. Also, talk to yourself. Say things outloud. Safer than snapping, reacting, and causing pain by saying something unintended at the spur of the moment. It will get it out and off you chest but not carry any pain w it.
My heart hurts for you, French. It's funny that many of us here have never met you, but we fell like we know you (even though it's just a little bit). You have a lot of people here that care for you, and I hope you lean on anyone here you need to lean on. There are many prayers going up for both you and Susan.
Thank you everyone. Still processing at the moment. Working on Linebacker and DL recruiting content and then will transition to looking at scheme stuff. I know that sounds kind of stupid at the moment, but I feel like I need to do something productive.
That's not stupid at all. These sorts of projects can help when you have a major life change. It'll give your subconscious some time to process and something to focus on. Take all the time you need, we'll be here to support and appreciate/engage with your impressive film review work!
As many have said on here, you should do what's best for French. If that is making content for TKP, great; we love your content. If that is going fishing and forgetting about football, we'll miss you; but we can wait for you to come back when you are ready.
So sorry you're having to go through this. As someone who's six years post divorce, good on y'all for prioritizing your happiness. As crappy as it feels, go through the grief stages. I tried to distract myself and pretend like it wasn't happening and next thing you know, I'm crying in the tub listening to John Mayer. Everyone goes through it differently but prioritize taking care of yourself and doing what you love.
This chapter may be over but the next one is just starting and you get to define it! Excited to hear your updates in the future.