Solid and honest message from Coach Young about the state of the program.
Really pulling for Coach over the next couple of years. He is doing his best with an administration that has not given him the resources he needs to be competitive. I genuinely hope that support is turning around.
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LETS GO!
HOKIES!
Agreed.
The guy clearly loves the place, and he knows basketball and what it takes to win.
Give him the resources he needs. Please.
I like Mike!
We all like Mike. He's committed and asking for our commitment. What's missing is the commitment of the players.
With that messaging (which is encouraging), to me, it puts the pressure on this portal cycle and next season. Time to put up or shut up.
I'm rooting for him but also feel like he's about 1-2 more mass portal exoduses from being like "screw this, I'm retiring" lol
I agree, but then I watch the video again, and I feel like he sorta takes this changing landscape as a challenge to some degree......I don't know. The man definitely comes across as genuine and passionate. Then again, I have to believe that there's a certain amount of puppeteering going on behind the scenes here too....
Meh, I believe Young wants to win... I also believe they have tickets to sell and don't want people panicking when the entire roster bolts every year. Its a marketing video, IMO.
yeah...I kinda feel that way too....but I couldn't quite summarize it correctly. I do feel like MY genuinely wants to win and cares about his players as well. i dont see anything disingenuous about him, despite who might be behind having him make this promo.
I bet Whit gave him 3 options and he chose that video to try to ease the fans. I don't think it was youngs idea.
Re-order of ticket sales for next year are already over. But I get you.
100% a fundraising push without using the words. We're in the middle of transfer portal season and we need NIL donations to fuel it.
Well, that's what it amounts to, doesn't it?
The fans wanted unlimited money in college sports. This is what that looks like.
[Edit: I'll respond to IfishVT here:
Yes, there were many fans who took the position that players were being exploited, when in fact they were getting significant compensation in terms of training, free room and board, and a free education.
So now they're often being paid like professionals (and often more than they'll get in other leagues) for wearing a university name on their jersey, while still getting the benefit of a college education, if they even want one.]
The fans???? I've yet to hear one say so, and I know a ton of college basketball fans. Everyone I know is disgusted.
No, what the "fans" did was buy into the horseshit that these kids are slaves, a scholarship has zero value, and they deserve millions of dollars..... because... coaches earn a salary and schools bring in billions- a lie. So as VT key said, yeah this is what fans wanted.
i think you are ignoring the other set of fans who knew kids have always been getting paid and getting "impermissible benefits" and just decided that whole thing was sketchy af and hella shady and should just be brought to light
then hand in hand with it was the restricted player movement that resulted in the portal. confluence of two things and you get the disaster we have now. the bandaid should either be ripped all the way off, or the NCAA gets an antitrust exemption and can start legally instituting rules -- but until then we have all of gestures vaguely this
"who knew kids have always been getting paid and getting "impermissible benefits" - oh so they weren't ever slaves forced to work for only a world class education and priceless exposure? interesting.
it's like you just argue with some composite of everything you've ever heard that you disagree with. Can someone be compensated in some form and the rules surrounding that compensation still be unfair? Can kids be compensated with "a world-class education and priceless exposure" and still be undercompensated relative to the value of their contribution? Can it be that running multi million dollar athletics departments as "nonprofits" didn't really do anyone justice, including (especially) the fans?
The system we're in right now sucks, but it has always low key sucked, which is why bag men were even a thing to begin with and have always been part of the equation. And it's probably always going to, at least until there is an antitrust exemption and collective bargaining and there is some sort of "fair" (and by fair, i mean agreed-upon) split of athletics-generated revenue with rules on how it can be spent.
Just fucking argue honestly and use real numbers... please.. don't come at me with "scholarships are worthless/no monetary value" horsehit... they literally bankrupt people. Don't pretend that getting into Duke with a 680 SAT is not some "benefit" - it's dishonest. Be honest- state that you think Drones should get paid millions- and be fucking done with it. Few people would agree with you, but at least it was a genuine argument. Also- VT athletics is strapped for cash? or are we not? If we are, then how the fuck are the players entitled to money we don't generate or have? be honest- all I ask. Not pretend world where the 9th guy on the bench generates real NIL . Fanstasy fucking land- all of it.
it's like you just argue with some composite of everything you've ever heard that you disagree with.
I don't think Drones is worth millions and I don't think you should get into Duke with a 680 SAT (or any bacherlors program, for that matter) -- who is pretending that? It's not me. It's the second time in two days you used that argument with me about athletes getting preferential treatment for admissions. Yesterday, I agreed with you.
VT Athletics generates lots of revenue, this is true! Based on this comment elsewhere (TSL), we even run in the black. The raw number of profitability is actually quite high! But the spending is actually a lot less than other schools with the same profitability because they are bringing in 60-100% more revenue more than we are.
I don't think the 9th bench guy "deserves" $100k or even $10k or maybe even $1k -- but I do think that it's wrong (and confusingly so) to say "you shouldn't be allowed to take that money for an appearance or a social media plug or some autographs if someone is giving it to you". And then you get to the slippery slope of pay-for-play, where the market value of a player is not in his or her NIL, it's in their presence on one team instead of any other teams. It sucks as a system.
"you shouldn't be allowed to take that money for an appearance or a social media plug or some autographs if someone is giving it to you"- I have never had a problem with this. If a player can earn money for a TSL radio spot- great. If people pay for his autograph- great. This rule could keep my favorite college competitive perhaps. But the American Baller Industrial Complex requires much more compensation for athletes - legit or not.
Athletes are only grabbing for it because people are handing it out 🤷♂️
I agree with this. I also think - maybe naive- that the vast majority of D1 athletes still play for the school and the opportunity vs. the Derrick Queens... the very tops guys- yeah they are pros that play for the bag.
I would, also maybe naively, agree, in most of the ither sports that aren't revenue sports you're not seeing the NIL and transfer portal wreck havoc. Sure we lost our top recruit from wrestling but not to some rich school that is just out bidding everyone even though they suck, we lost them to the best program there is right now. PSU might have paid them way to much but at the same time, they lap everyone at nationals and have for years. Losing football recruits to nick saban never bothered me, losing them to Dabo and James Franklin does. We lost recruits to Clemson before they won a national title and thay sucked, because we were just as good a program. Now, Bama, VT is no where close to Bama as a program.
I'm sure the top athletes in every sport get something, but it's not from schools like VT paying to steal all of UVAs women's swim team (which we should do). It's UVA giving the top female swimmers something extra to not think about the other top schools.
Even at the top level, it's not just guys (or gals) chasing the bag; they're looking for culture fit, development, etc. It's just like a regular person looking for a job: yea, comp is a big piece of it, but it's not the only piece.
Eh, fans wanted the kids to get their fair share, not 'unlimited money'. Predictably, it got exploited just like any competitive industry with gaping loopholes.
Disagree. A scholarship, room and board, stipend, etc is more than fair for 90% of D1 athletes. What got us here was the ridiculous, shallow, false logic that CBS/Turner pays the NCAA billions for March madness thus the players must "get a piece of that".. America. OK- deduct venue, travel, employee costs of putting on the tournament off that top line and now we have a real "profit" figure for the NCAA. Divide- SOME- of that with all of the players on the 330 Division 1 teams and there you have a "fair" share. That is nothing close to what we have. The last guy on Duke's bench is likely getting zero while Cooper Flagg gets 4 million. That is not "fair" and it is not in anyway reality to what Duke basketball legitimately brings in in "revenue". Its a fucking joke.
There are issues with the system and it is broken. Flagg is going to stay at Duke for three more years because he makes more money than starting in the NBA. That says a lot right there.
Flagg is the consensus #1 pick in the draft. He is leaving Duke after this season- 100%. Coach K and Scheyer won't let him stay. He blows his knee out- it costs him millions. And BTW- he won't make more at Duke. The number 1 pick is guaranteed 11 million a year on his rookie deal. Duke is not paying him nor will pay him near that.
Nah, Flagg is going to want to leave now to knock out his rookie contract as quickly as possible.
With the way salaries are going up, Flagg could sign a 5 year / 500 million down the road (on top of his endorsement deals).
To be fair, there are about 190,000 D1 athletes, and I bet more than 90% don't get any substantial compensation beyond Room/Board/Tuition/CoL
According to the discussion on the other thread, that's worth about $35,000/yr if at the same minimum level for any other instate student. If we broke that out to a full time job, that's approx equivalent to $16.80/hr at 40 hr/wk 52 wk/yr. Not including the other benefits.
the other benefits would include but not limited to various insurances, preferred admission to advanced universities, academic, physical, nutritional, career placement and psych assistance.
Up until thos coming year most didn't recieve even that. Swimming is increasing by 20 scholarships for women and I want to say UF had to cut half their team. There was 9.9 and 14 scholarships for mens and womens swimming respectively this past year, now each get 30. So 60 total and half the team has to quit. That is insane for multiple reasons. Every sport is like that, players got cut because of the limits that are more than enough for a team.
Unless you played football, basketball, women's gymnastics or women's volleyball its very unlikely you got a full ride. I would say we have a lot of work to do to compensate ncaa athletes to 90%
There is a difference in the numbers. The NCAA has put roster limits in place but nothing mandates the school to provide that many scholarships.
Huh, my point was that if you look at a sport like swimming that now has 30 spots which require a lot of teams to cut players from when they had 9.9 scholarships means most of the team was getting nothing. When the statement was a scholarship should be good enough for 90% of the 190,000 student-athletes, I was pointing out that lots of sports have rosters filled with people not getting a full ride, or even half a ride.
Huh? 30 spots is a roster limit, not a scholarship mandate
I know that, it's not what I am talking about. I will try to make it clear ...
Today there 9.9 scholarships for mens swimming.
Next year they are limiting rosters to 30.
Lots of swimmers have to leave meaning that swim teams are way over 30 swimmers.
If there are way over 30 swimmers on the teams and only 9.9 scholarships then the amount of swimmers getting paid is low because it's like 45 swimmers and 9.9 scholarships of money.
So anyone saying a scholarship should be enough is not thinking about any sport other than football, basketball, and somen gymnastics because those are the only full ride guaneteed sports. The rest of the 190,000 athletes get very little.
How many swimmers get paid professionally?
Not many.
So 10 scholarships is generous.
College swimmers are in that because they want to compete at that level, not because it's a paying career.
Notice that Maryland eliminated swimming, as it wasn't ever going to contribute to their football or basketball budgets.
And this is why what is going on in college athletics is such a travesty.
Agreed.
I dont understand why that is generous? 105 football scholarships is well more than is needed for the players going pro if that is your argument. There are ~77,000 college football al players and only ~1700 pro players. If the average career is 3 years then less than 1% are going pro. So i dont see how that applies. The football players are there because they want to compete at that level, not because it's a career.
But we can play the same game with baseball which is 11.7 scholarships for 27 players (teams will be limited to 26 next year). Lots of baseball players go pro. According to NCAA, 9.1% of college baseball players go pro. That's way better than football.
Also why should we give some one a scholarship to a university if they are going to have a career in sports, they don't need a degree. There's no degree requirement for the NFL or NBA. Let the swimmers get an education cause it's unlikely they are going to get paid swimming.
Yes, but a lot of the kids playing baseball, swimming, tennis, etc come from families that can afford tuition. A big piece of the reason why schools offer those sports programs is because it attracts student students who will participate on the teams and pay tuition.
most college athletes in all sports come from families in top 20% income as those athletes account for more than 75% of college athletes. If you want to help those who need it more than why do it by sport and not socioeconomic status?
I dont have the time to find it but there was an article in the last year or so about the NBA that 20 years ago there were a lot more players coming from poverty and now there are more players in the league from kids of NBA players than poverty. Kids of NBA players is not a large group no matter how much Shawn Kemp tied.
I think that's a great point. Is the goal of the scholarship to entice the best players to come to your school, or is it to be more equitable and give opportunities to individuals who otherwise may not have one? What's the goal of having non-revenue sports? What's the goal of having non-scholarship athletes?
That tracks.
One thing that really struck me when listening to Who Killed College Football was that being a professional athlete wasn't a high paying or very desirable career until the 80s. In the 4-5 decades since, that has drastically changed. As a result, you've seen sports become more professionalized (for lack of a better term) at every level - I'm not just talking about kids getting money; moreso the way that sports leagues are run, kids are coached/trained, etc.
I remember hearing that QP3 didn't have a dedicated QB coach, and how unusual that was for a top 100 QB recruit. That's the stuff I'm talking about.
Coming full circle to your comment about the NBA players... it makes sense... The guys who come from NBA families know how to train, who to train with, what leagues to play in, etc. And, beyond the know-how, they have the financial means and (presumably) the genetic gifts.
But the real question is: do those student students study?
It's generous because Swimming doesn't bring any money into the university, and not much in terms of promotion.
So it's nothing but cost.
Which contrasts with Football and Basketball, which at least bring some level of revenue and publicity.
At a certain point we have to take a step back and say "What are we doing?"
This is my thought as well. The powers that be need to go back to first principles and ask themselves why are they doing college sports? Who is it for?
So basketball and football bring on revenue, and that revenue has increased at rates much higher than the value of a scholarship. But we have kept the compensation for athletes the same while the coaches have skyrocketed.
The original argument was a scholarship should be enough for student-athletes but now just for revenue sports? Scholarships exists so that people with all kinds of talent have a chance to get an education because a college education is more than just your major, for many people it is learning how to live away from their parents, and how to deal with things they've never expirenced. I'd never seen lacrosse, rugby, or wrestling prior to college. I knew of them but never met anyone that played them, didn't know the rules. There are many things that colleges should be doing to offer a well rounded education to all students and having sports is one of those. If you are only tieing scholarships to revenue sports then you are missing the point of college, its not about making money, VT isn't a for profit university.
What are we rethinking? Everyone gets a scholarship? Because the opposite is only people that want to go into debt or have rich parents get to go to VT.
Or do you mean like roll up the athletic department into the universities and then sue every D1 school for excessive compensation for coaches? There are only like 80 football coaches making over 1 million, and lots of college head coaches making less. Really drive this back to amatuer sports?
Sure the system has been broken for pretty much always it's that the money wasn't enough to show how bad it was until lately. The only real fix is collective bargaining which should cover all ncaa athletes.
You know which stakeholder you didn't mention once in your response? The fan. (and to be clear - I'm not saying that's right or wrong - just pointing out that it's quite telling)
There only reason anyone at all is upset about Revenue Sharing/Collective Money/NIL is that hurts/shifts the competitive balance of the sport (Note: I'm only talking about player money here - not realignment, not the transfer portal, just player compensation). It's a net positive for everyone except the fan.
Which gets to point - if fans aren't the primary stakeholder here, then why are we structuring it like they are? If fans are the primary stakeholder, then let's just fully professionalize the sport.
The reason NCAA football/basketball are in this predicament is because for decades now, the NCAA (which is comprised of university presidents and administrators) has insisted on having their cake and eating it too. They wanted to pretend that college athletics have a higher meaning/moral calling, but they also want to monetize that in every and any way possible.
You can only carry on that facade for so long until it breaks.
I feel like Sands and Whit are holding a gun to his head as he reads the line about how supportive they are.
CMY is only 3 years removed from beating Coach K in his final conference tournament game to win our first ever ACC basketball title. It's a complete embarrassment that our admin is not giving him the support he needs to compete now. Hopefully the message in the video is real and we see an infusion of support. That quote from Whit about Clemson/NIL was BRUTAL.
Selfishly I was rooting for Duke to win the NCAA title that year so we would go down in history as "the last team to beat Coach K", but then again I'm honestly okay with them losing to anyone, anywhere, anytime.
What quote?
this'n
OOF
This makes Whit look incompetent. I can understand that funds are limited and have to be prioritized. But how can you tell us that 'underestimate' the amount of money that we needed, but also tell us that there wasn't a tradeoff to fund football? Did donors offer you $5m extra and you said 'nah, we good??'
edit: Another twitterer nailed it
Seriously. This wasn't a minor oversight-- it completely tanked one of our flagship athletic programs for a whole season.
Look, if you want to make the argument that our donors are so poor/cheap that in order to get football up and running we need to give up in basketball... I'm at minimum open to that discussion.
But If you're not doing this, and you just... hit the arbitrary number you had and decided to stop hitting donors up for money... what are you doing? Collectives aren't athletic departments: They're not non-profits, they don't need to spend money immediately. Take as much money as you can, and if you don't need it, then save for it for when you do need it.
He IS incompetent. He allows fossil Bellein to have a huge hand in decisions for football. He allowed Fuente to remain status quo after ODU embarrassed the program. After Fuente was a total disaster, he hired a first time head coach with 2 first time coordinators.. why? Because Pry was here 30 years ago as a GA. No other reason really. He had no pulse or interest on what it would take to keep our womens hoops program afloat with Brooks, he de-funded mens hoops for a year at least. He is simply lucky that Dresser and D'amore work for minimum wage.
Wow, that's...that's just embarrassing.
some relevant discussion here
https://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/1305721#comment-1305721
Thanks, was having trouble remembering which thread it was.
me too, i wound up scrolling back in the chronological Comments tab til i found it
I'm going to take this opportunity to talk to what I know about Mike Young. My thirteen year old son wanted to do basketball camp last year and instead of sending him 20 minutes up the road to WVU, my wife took a week to stay in Christiansburg and take him to camp at Tech. My wife's mother was an elementary teacher in Radford (she passed in 2015) and had taught Mike Young. When my wife introduced herself and my son to him at camp he sat them down on the bench and sat with my family and told them stories of being in my mother-in-law's class. She said he talked with them for at least 20 minutes, answering any questions my son had about his grandmother.
So, I don't know if Mike Young is a National Championship caliber coach, but I do know he's a good man and nobody will tell me otherwise.
Great story, thanks for sharing.
Awesome. Mike Young is a gentleman, man of integrity and a hell of a basketball coach. He will win if he is supported properly
Hell yeah man. Thanks for sharing.
Go Hokies! Hard to hate CMY.
Related but don't know if anybody saw Andy Bitter's twitter thread on his interview with Whit recently. Whit says apparently they just misjudged the market for basketball NIL. I'm so tired of hearing excuses from Whit while he drives our programs further into the ground. It's literally his job to figure these things out, and I think just about anyone could have seen that the funding level was far below par for even the ACC.
We need a new AD in a bad way if we are ever going to be seriously competitive again. Kudos for CMY for hanging in there when he has been left out to dry.
that thread was funny because Whit simultaneously said they undershot the market and had roughly half of what Clemson had allocated to basketball. But it "wasn't because they overpaid football players".
It must have been all of the swimmers that they were shelling out the big bucks for
Right. If you "misjudged the market" but weren't able to correct that in the moment, it's because you allocated the money elsewhere.
"They just misjudged the market for basketball NIL" - losing mentality, losing program. Too many things around VT sports that have nothing to do with winning. Like thinking "zero" basketball NIL dollars was market value. Incompetent and you are seeing it in the W/L
Yeah that was an insane quote. You misjudged the market...? So, uh, just re-adjust on the fly? Not that hard.
I don't think they had the budget. I do not think they had the money.
They didn't take from BB for Football, they just did not have any more left. You can't squeeze that stone any harder to get the blood out.
The NIL money is just wildly over the moon. There are lots of schools that did not anticipate the incredible volume of cash. It is mostly because some schools saw an opportunity to throw whole stacks of cash in an attempt to sneak in a title or 2. We'll see over the next few years just how sustainable it is.
I like Mike Young and think he is a great coach but I'm not sure that jumping into the portal again with our bag of money is going to solve things.
Mike Young likes to sit younger players until they learn his system. That worked fine pre-NIL. Now, no one is going to want to sit on the bench a year and not play.
It is the same issue Tony Bennett had. If you have a system that takes a season or more to learn, that is not going to work in the NIL ERA.
What is so complex about CMY's system?
what's so complex about Tony's?
IDK. I thought his system was pretty simple - play defense and don't shoot unless there's less than 8 seconds on the shot clock 🤷
CMY runs a motion offense. Not unlike Bob Knight did in 1976. The difference is the 3 point line of course. Basically you split the court in 2 on either side of the lane.. players without the ball move based on the initial entry /penetration - as in the reverse side. You pass the ball and screen until you find the open shooter. Knock down shots and it works. Tony's system is a defensive system- the pack line- where you contest everything and force it inside to a subsequent highly contested shot and easy rebound. The pack line works when you have elite defenders that know where the help is, and refs that don't call bullshit touch fouls. The reason Tony's offense is like watching paint dry is that the other team uses the shot clock trying to get a good look, so possessions are minimal. He wins with defense, not offense. His very best teams had a guy that could get his own shot on offense and a couple top level 3 ball shooters.
Are motion offenses tough to learn?
Not at all... what is tough is learning effort, discipline and unselfishness. A kid used to taking 30 shots in HS is going to struggle in a motion offense- not because its hard to learn, but because you have to share the ball.
I would push back on this and say yes it is hard to learn, IF you haven't been exposed to the concepts before. There are lots of good rants on the internet about younger players today not having the same basketball IQ fundamentals, but if you haven't ever been called upon to cut and screen actively again and again to make a motion offense hum, it can be tough. There's an improvisation element, like learning that jazz, and it can be tricky.
CMY seems to be pretty good at recruiting to his system, but our recruiting situation have been documented well here. I would definitely agree with post above about CMY's offense not being conducive to the NIL era.
I don't think it's that hard to teach/learn. I think the challenge is having several players not only learning it at the same time but also gelling as a unit.
If significant annual turnover is now the norm; then slow starts to the season will also be the norm particularly for teams running more complex or more disciplined systems.
Portal season for VT may be trying to lock down a couple of higher level players and then finding successful role players from smaller schools that are already familiar with what CMY likes to coach.
Concepts that need a bit more teaching nowadays to reach the younger generation.
The basic scheme of the offense isn't hard to learn but running it precisely and effectively is difficult and simply takes time.
The other point to consider is many of these guys were treated like Demi-Gods in H.S. and the Offense was basically "give him the ball and get out of the way."
Convincing an 18 year-old who's been told since age 12 that they are destined to be an NBA millionaire that running a pin-down screen to get someone else an open shot is a difficult proposition. Running an Iso Offense gives them much more opportunity to showcase themselves.
When said 18 year-old has an NIL Agent in his ear yapping about all the "offers" he can get him, getting guys to stick around to learn and perfect an Offense is near impossible.
What's so complex about Tony's?
Playing like #1 all season and then letting the #64 team in the tournament beat you first round. I'm not really answering your question, but I'm never going to pass up the opportunity to bring that up.
You deserve allll the legs for this.
I kinda feel like this season put that "Young doesn't play young guys" to bed. If you look at total minutes played this season, Tyler Johnson was second on the team. Hammond is a little further down, but still averaged 20 minutes a game. The only freshman who didn't play was Jones, and he was coming off a major knee injury.
Did we give up when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!!!!
We were just lucky the Germans didn't spend 70% more on NIL than we did.
The Germans were not capable of spending 70% more on NIL than we did. We ended up spending 70% more than they did even though it cost them everything they had.
Yup. The US "big dogged" the axis powers.
What's more, we asked them to leave us alone. They asked to get Big Dogged.
Meh, before we big dogged them, we were little-dogging them. Lend leasing equipment to England, selling them weapons and supplies, etc.
And they were sinking our WW1 era pups, keeping it essentially even. Our industry didn't kick in until after Dec '41.
I would have liked to see Whit in the video with him. Feels like they cut CMY off at the knees all year and then told him to go out and dance to raise money
Its all business that is why he is at a desk.
I like Mike Young. Pretty much everything about him as a coach and how he conducts himself. If my two boys are ever talented enough to play on a D1 level he's exactly the kind of Coach I would want them to play for.
I think we have to also be honest about two things that he's got going against him that just aren't going away.
The current environment of college sports is completely style over substance. NIL and the Transfer Portal have completely devalued teaching coaches. What matters is simply how well you can sell your program and how much money you can raise for it. Players go in, players go out--very few stick around long enough for any actual development either educationally or in the fundamentals of their sport. It's a shame and it is completely short-sighted.
Number two, the VT Athletic Department is simply inept. Every time Whit speaks he sounds more and more vapid. The department really should just be cleaned out from top to bottom. They continue to live in the past and have shown no ability to adapt. Even if Coach Young suddenly turned into "Mike the Used Car Salesman," it's very doubtful he'll ever have the resources and support he will need to sustain success in the current landscape.
I want him to succeed for many reasons, I just don't see a reasonable pathway for it to happen now.
Absolutely right.
Whit has failed to meet the moment over and over. The small potatoes "little ol' VT" mindset needs to die, and it has needed to die for a long time.
Sweet 16 starters based on original school. There's little loyalty any longer. Especially when you see a coach in the Sweet 16 basically signing a deal at another school before the tournament is over.
The sport will feel the broader consequences of this as the years go on unless something is done. After Kevin Garnett signed with the NBA- everybody and their brother in HS declared for the NBA draft- most of them sucked and couldn't play and were also kids- 18 years old. What drove the NBA to change that rule was college coaches who wanted the best AAU prospects of course that were now declaring for the draft- not getting drafted - and couldn't go back to college. Also about this time, every euro kid that could hit a jump shot in greece was getting drafted by the NBA- so there were few and fewer spots for the HS kids. Calipari wanted these kids, Coach K wanted these kids, etc. So they pushed the NBA for a rule that also helped them- dumbass owners couldn't get infatuated with bums and overpay them. Win/Win... The same will happen here without any rules. High School kids are going to lose out on hundreds of opportunities to lower division kids in the transfer portal. Look at Louisville- no HS kids impact this year- all transfers. This will be the norm. So the pressure will come from AAU runners, HS coaches, etc as their kids aren't getting the same opportunity. Look no further than Arkansas- a bunch of transfers vs. one and dones. It's going to kill the sport. Boosters will pull back support because they don't know who is on the fucking team next year. You may not see it now, but the sport is in serious trouble unless changes are made.
It will settle down. It's the shiny new thing on the block to do. After a few years, people will realize they aren't winning anything by putting $10mil into a program and either substantially cut it or just stop.
Also, kids are taking advantage of it while they can, and rightfully so. But it's not sustainable. It will slow down or there will be a split of the sport like where football is headed. It's getting it's 15 minutes worth now, but the curtain will close in a few years.
Looks like to me that most of those schools are putting in some money, and winning.
Yes, some of the non-winners will pull back, but Duke is just going to stay big, no?
Wow this graphic makes me feel le sad.
Also mad props to whatever the heck Purdue is doing lol
Purdue is a hoops school with a student body like Dukes- but 3 times as big. Painter recruits a certain kid- one that wants that experience at a big midwestern engineering school and wins with them. Not the other way around- meaning recruit jersey city and miami and hope to win with kids that don't like the cold and academics.
For those curious which school is which,
Top row: Auburn, Michigan, Ole Miss, Michigan State, Florida, Maryland, Texas Tech, Arkansas
Bottom row: Duke, Arizona, BYU, Alabama, Houston, Purdue, Kentucky, Tennessee
Schools with no remaining players that matriculated there from high school: Michigan, Arizona, Kentucky
Schools with equal or more original players on other teams: Texas Tech, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Auburn
Schools not in the Sweet Sixteen with multiple original players in the Sweet Sixteen: Virginia Tech (2), Rutgers (2), North Carolina (2), Oklahoma (2), Belmont (2), Florida Atlantic (2)
Thanks for this. I think I could only identify 4 or 5 of the correct schools out of 16.
What a fucking joke. You can't even make a guess as to which school half of these schools are. And honestly, I'm not sure that some of the ones that you can 'make a guess' result in the right guess.
I mean, I knew I would have some degree of disenchantment in college sports due to the reshuffling decks we call basketball rosters, but it's a perfect visual showcasing that it's nearly impossible to build any human identity for one's team to root for. There's zero human connection. We've all said NIL/Portal will kill college sports (meaning fan interest/participation), but man, this fast? It's so bad that I don't seemingly care anymore. That outlook took two seasons to set in.
I've barely watched March Madness this year. If so, mainly due to having nothing else to do so why not? That's about it.
And...it sucks. It's sad and unfortunate.
EDIT: College basketball has now become a universal "One and Done" sport.
It's worse than I anticipated and that's pretty difficult.
"One and Done per school" sport. We are seeing kids stay in college longer in basketball but hopping around.
That's my point. They are one season at a school, then done, and the one to the next. Repeating the process until they run out of eligibility
It was very slowly, and then all at once. In my personal sphere, it seems like fans of the huge schools are still there, and it seems like more casual fans are still around, but diehards of anybody that's not MICHABAMAFLAOSU are just kinda like 'this shit sucks'. Which is where I'm at.
I went to Colorado State for a year before I got to Tech, so I'm still a very casual CSU fan. After Queen's walk and heave put Maryland through, I was done. We haven't watched any more march madness in this house.
In the end, the whole thing is killing the goose that once was college basketball. And for what? Apathy and disgruntlement? I'll repeat...nobody I know thinks this is anything but disgusting and sad.
Did everyone see Kevin Willard's comments about Maryland's NIL in his press conference before their first round game? He said he thought they were at the bottom. Not sure if he was maybe referencing the B10 or D1 overall. And now he's leaving for Villanova. How bad was our NIL that he lured away Rodney Rice and had a few really good freshmen that propelled their season and tournament run with what he thinks is the bottom?!
His big complaint was that the majority of NIL was going to football, which has consistently sucked and there appeared to be no pressure from the school regarding their performance yet he has had Maryland winning but gets constant pressure to do better without increase in NIL.
Maryland second to Duke in terms of worst football atmosphere I've ever experienced at a P4 school. That place is a morgue , so lame for football.
My senior year I went to every game, home and away, and we played in College Park.
Place was mostly empty and we got yelled at for standing up and making noise when VT was on defense.
Have you been to BC? Can they possibly be worse than that?
Yes, yes they can.
That seems like a very VT thing to do.
Indiana now has every single rostered player either graduating or in the portal for next year.
I love the message, but I doubt the administration's commitment. I just dont believe it.
What about the boosters' commitment?
Throwing money in the Go Hokies! fire chasing 8th place in the ACC is going to get real old when the team literally changes every season.
I mean, couldn't financial commitment from the boosters help prevent the team from turning over every season?
Hard No.... see Hoosiers, Indiana.
Smoke this morning about Chester Frazier returning to Blacksburg.
Give me ALL OF IT. I love Coach Frazier. He is really interactive with fans on Twitter too.
Whit will low ball him, so we shall see
That'd be awesome. Illini fans were really bummed when he left for WVU.
This is tremendous news. Go Hokies!
Here to firmly eat crow. Kudos to Whit for researching a number that would not totally insult Frasier.. good job
Young may have a lot more internal leverage; certainly credibility; than his boss right now.
The made for the fans video was just that. But the post-game interview following the Cal loss was pretty raw..."a lot was missing"; "we've got to get more talented, and we're going to...quick"; "I'm not living through that again".
At a minimum, Young knew about the increased budget distribution. I'd be shocked if they hadn't had discussions with Frazier's agent before Webster left; maybe before the end of the season; certainly when the first DeVries rumor surfaced.
Here is a DeVries' quote re: the Indiana job. "Yeah, obviously the process is the process....I know how it plays out... they were very respectful of making sure that my focus continued to be on our team and certainly appreciated that."
Can't imagine Frazier/Young didn't know where the WVU situation was headed before the end of the season.
Mike Young should have a ton of leverage as he is one of two active ACC coaches to win the ACC tournament. He's one of the few coaches that have delivered and that's a big time delivery. We should be funding him as much as we can because he has overachiever every season.
Can somebody ELI5 what went down between DeVries/Indiana and Frazier/WVU?
Nothing I have seen indicates any animosity, Frazier just preferred to come back to Virginia Tech. He and Devries had not worked together before last season.
Well, Buzz Williams is now the head coach at Maryland so it just became that much harder for us to recruit this region.
Seems like Buzz's whole gimmick should provide at least some ammo to use against him on the recruiting trail
And Willard left because he couldn't get everything he wanted too.
Maryland isn't the recruiting powerhouse they should be, given the amount of talent in the DC-Bmore corridor. I'm not sure that changes any at all with Buzz luring them in.
Few things are bigger in life than a major college basketball coaches ego. These guys think they are more powerful than the Governor. Williard wanted to be at a hoops first school. Period.
They get paid more..at least legally.
There are no p4 hoops first schools, when calipari made less than Stoops you know where things stand. I think Self still makes more than Liepold, but not like you'd think.
Duke is. It's about a $4M a year difference between Scheyer and Cutcliffe.
Kansas is about a $1.8M+ for Self.
Duke is actually paying Scheyer like $7-8m more than they're paying cutcliffe right now
Scheyer is making around $7.6M, Cutcliffe is making $3M
Cutcliffe retired years back and is like three Duke HCs ago or something. Did he and Scheyer ever even coincide as HCs?
True, Manny Diaz is making $4.3M next year so gap is closer. Sloppy bit of relying on AI.
Duke is still paying Cutcliffe though as his buyout was over a 5 year span.
Was Cut fired that he is collecting a buyout? I thought he retired.
Mutual agreement of separation but my understanding (Duke is private so doesn't disclose) was he would receive payments for five years but don't know the amount. Cutcliffe wanted to keep coaching. He only had two years remaining on contract so doubt it was much.
Yeah the real shocker isn't Self making more, it's Leipold making $7 mil at kansas football
Agreed, thought it was crazy seeing that. Especially for a 22-28 record.
Fortunately Buzz and Young usually don't fish in the same water in terms of type of player. Buzz runs a different system and recruits more position-less guys. Buzz would have never recruited a Wessler for example- doesn't need a post guy in that vein.
i feel like with buzz we mostly landed high-3*s and were happy with it "because OKG"
He was also making them work.
Buzz claimed to come to VT to be part of the ACC, and then claimed he went to Texas A&M to get back to his home state of Texas.
Why is he headed to Maryland? He suddenly likes bad traffic? Finally wants to go to a basketball school? Has a woodie for Kevin Plank? Or is he just a rolling stone?
He was fascinating for a while, but I'm over Buzz. He does seem like a good fit at soulless, transactional, "maybe we can buy a win" Maryland.
Sounds like he's a homie for those that close to the DC Beltway.
He wants to be close to a Target
Very underrated reply. Well played 👏🏻.
His style of "management" is abrasive to every administration because he is smart enough to include clauses in his contract that give him total control plus the support he deems necessary to be successful. It just causes alot of friction and from all accounts he had worn out his welcome at A&M. Add to that that his success wasn't elite success but more good but not great so A&M was tired of it and it wasn't costing them a string of championships to see him gone.
Buzz went 120-73 at A&M. .622 winning percentage. 56-44 in SEC play. .560 winning percentage. Just above .500 in conference. First two years there were tough but best season record was 27-13 in 2021-22 and they finished NIT Runner Up. Best conference record was 15-3 in 2022-23 and finished second in the SEC. He took them to NCAAT three times but never advanced past round of 32.
He discovered that he had a thing for Old Bay.
The smoke I am hearing down here is that A&M was in talks with Chris Beard to come there but that broke down (and A&M is pissed about it), and I think Buzz might have heard about it (if not outright told to look for another job) which is why he left for Maryland.
Winning is more important than your very public, face of the program, 6 mil per year coach's history of beating women. The Baller Industrial Complex.
Buzz might be an ego maniac, but I was happy to support his summer camp for kids, etc. He had a winning record as well. To replace him with Beard??? I guess winning is more important.
For that kind of money, you probably expect some tournament wins.