I'm not his biggest fan but I certainly think he can raise the floor tremendously. Truthfully, it's probably as good of a known quantity as we can get. This turned out to be a bad year for trying to find a coach in all the chaos.
I just hope we can go back to being relevant. In my trips to Lane this year the juice is still there. We just need a team that can compete at a high level.
This turned out to be a bad year for trying to find a coach in all the chaos.
I don't think there are any more "good years" for coaching searches. Given how the turnover has increased, the insane amounts of money, etc. I think that this is what a normal year looks like going forward.
Don't disagree. It just seems this year has more changes than normal but you're right it's likely par moving forward. Outside of the obvious financial benefits, being a coach or AD in today's college football world is just trying to navigate a moving shitstorm.
We can all say whatever we want about the pros/cons of this hire but the reality is this would be a serious upgrade for us over Fuente and Pry and would help stabilize and legitimize a program that is reeling and trending hard negative. I hope this happens.
I'm desperate for it to happen. I'm not saying I wouldn't be happy with anyone else, but he would be a slam dunk. We're lucky Penn State was dumb enough to even make this a possibility.
If he can't start the course correction then no one can until the entire AD Dept and most of the BOV is gutted.
Outside of the cash infusion announcement, VT Football is a shit show, dumpster fire, etc. If we land him, then IMO, Franklin has "seen things" outside of the cash that shows him VT is serious and he has the confidence in "Us" for him to be successful.
If VT lands Franklin, I think the P2 community will take serious note and train their left eye on VT over the next few years.
Hiring Franklin now is such a big dog move for VT when looking at our current situation. It has been said by a few on here that VT realistically shouldn't have a shot at Franklin. I tend to agree that it has a "pie in the sky" feel to it. Landing him over all other openings to better aligned programs...c'mon man!
Yes indeed. Just saying if it doesn't happen and the Old Guard mostly remains then when/if Franklin fails then all arrows point to the AD and BOV. Then it's ready, aim, release at that point.
VT hiring Franklin would send the same message to the P2 that UNC sent w/ the Belichick hire. We're serious about big boy football. But hopefully with better results and definitely with less icky and dramatic relationship baggage.
VT hiring Franklin is the same shot across the landscape that VT hiring Buzz was. And regardless of how Buzz at VT ended, you can't say he didn't immediately and significantly raise our profile while he was here. And that is exactly what we need right now
This. And this could just be me trying to find the silver lining, but it may be possible that even if Franklin has no intention of coming to VT, but the rumors keep swirling for a bit, it may help with the perception that we're serious and help us land a better candidate than we would have if we weren't being talked about at all.
I agree with this take. Buzz took over a distressed asset and turned it around in 3 years. The similarities between James Johnson and Brent Pry are there as well.
Agree. I just hope the analogy ends if/when there is a separation of Franklin from VT. Until Buzz started to stick his foot out the door, VT was on a rising path in MBB. But once it was apparent that Buzz was only looking out for himself, I feel like the VT administration thought the momentum would carry itself, that things would just fall into place for MBB to continue to see success. But it has been a roller coaster ride with Young ever since. I attribute a decent amount of the blame on Young, himself, due to his unique style of recruiting and coaching. But a lot of the blame is on the administration for not being anywhere aggressive enough if its support to make sure the program did not slip back into its old, mediocre ways. But here we are.
I don't want there to be a meteoric rise (relatively speaking) in the football program, thanks to hiring Franklin (or someone like him), then he leaves for probably big dog program reasons, and we fail to remember to keep the pedal floored to get the best or do the best we possibly can. It's not a concept of achieving a certain orbit and staying there forever. Your level of orbit is constantly decaying unless you keep giving it more boost, all the time.
This is OT but have you seen all of the A&M fans up in arms because of Buzz apparently admitting to telling a recruit he was leaving (or thinking of leaving, I haven't watched the clip)? It's so funny because they're complaining about him doing that and stealing their recruits with a foot out of the door and tech fans have been like ..yeah, he does that.
Buzz at VT ended with our best ever Tournament finish in the modern era. I know you're referencing the talent drain that happened with his departure, but you can't ignore the last on the court results.
same message to the P2 that UNC sent w/ the Belichick hire.
God I hope not. I think just about everyone knew that this was an absolutely terrible idea from the get-go. I don't think anyone thought UNC/BB would be this bad, but no one outside of UNC really expected them to make a bowl game. Everyone knew this was a joke, even without the whacky GF/Fiance stuff.
Meh. My comparison was less about the likelihood of success and more about the message UNC was trying to send. Which, again, was we have money to spend on football and we'll take big swings.
Seeing how he was let go at Penn State...unrealistic expectations.....
Why would he want to jump into another job with the same if not worse expectations? And why would a school with those expectations hire him if they see he "can't win the big game"?
I'm speaking primarily of LSU and UF, potentially FSU as well. I mean at LSU if he doesn't win a natty in the first 4 years they'll want him out.
At tech he could get us to 8-10 win seasons again and ACCCG appearances and we would be lovin' it. He could worry about the big games then or get hired off then to another place but we'd be way better situation than we are now.
Not sure why I posted in another thread to maybe wait on an announcement....
Why would he want to jump into another job with the same if not worse expectations?
Because most CFB coaches are arrogant enough that they think they can meet if not surpass expectations?
You have to understand that these guys are just built different than you and I and think different than you and I. They are supremely competitive and want to win at the highest level.
PSU has unrealistic expectations. FSU, UF, and LSU don't. PSU hasn't won a national championship since 1986.
LSU should probably fire coaches if they haven't won one in the first four years, because the three coaches preceding Brian Kelly did so. LSU is arguably the best job in the country with the most in-state talent who all want to go to the state school. Their most recent one was only 6 years ago.
Florida has won 3 natty's since PSU won their last one, and 2 since 2000
FSU has also won 3 natty's since PSU won their last one, one of those since 2010.
Florida is the most talent rich state in the country. Unlike Louisiana, you have to fight 4 major conference teams for those recruits, but the path to the trophy is clear.
It won't be if Franklin will pick based on expectations, it'll be those 3 schools passing on Franklin because they believe he has a ceiling that is lower than their expectations to compete for national championships.
OR, he is using VT for more leverage somewhere else.
I just don't have a good feeling about Franklin. They need someone who can do more with less, even with the influx of cash. The money isn't sustainable until they modernize the fundraising mechanisms (you know, that little thing Whit committed to do when he was hired and a decade plus later there is no difference.)
It seems like it's so close, which means it will fall through our fingers. We need Auburn, Wiscy. NCSU, and a few others to keep winning to retain their coaches. I have a feeling a lot more jobs are going to come open in the next six weeks. Getting him to sign the contract soon would mean we are finally serious.
If the offer is out, VT is smart to get it out there now. Not sure it makes sense for Franklin to accept now or he has a different job/school in mind, but make him so no and move on or he accepts and all aboard the hype train!
Sure, he accepts now and makes 3-4 million to coach our last 3 games then accepts the offer from Ole Miss during the off season after Lane is hired away.
You know, I seriously thought of something like this too. And it would not be bad if the contract is structured right. If the people who steal Franklin from us have to pay a big buyout to use, we then have a good war chest for the future just from a few months renting Franklin. Of course, VT has to write the contract properly - what are the odds of that - and Franklin has to accept it.
He is my top pick. Over everyone else, excepting the guy at Tulane, who I think we have no chance at. What I don't want to have happen is what happened 4 years ago where we are one of the last schools looking and settle for someone with a connection to the old beamer days. I do not want Shane. I love Shane, grew up with the guy, know him well. I cannot imagine the pressure and stress that would come from that hire. Only risk IMO. Also would really love the big balls move if we do hire Franklin, and he immediately hires Pry as his DC. That would be awesome if incredibly unrealistic.
I don't know Shane, don't have any connection. While there is a path for Shane to have huge, long-term success at VT, the reality is there are far many more ways for him to fail. I'm sure he loves VT, and we love him for his contributions, but man I can't imagine the nauseous feeling that would be accompanied by fans screaming for his dismissal if things didn't work out perfectly. Sometimes it is better to wonder, "what could have been."
I kinda feel this way about Bud. Great DC for us, no question. I'm not sure he would have made a good HC and it would have been very painful if he got the HC job and then failed
My opinion of Bud has always been that of your company's top engineer who can be pulled into deal meetings to explain the technical concerns/concepts, persuade the client that it will work as intended, etc. But then he leaves and the CEO type takes over with the glad-handing, negotiations, and seals the deal. I never have seen Bud as one of those CEO guys. Very similar, in fact, to Kliff Kingsbury. Seemed like a terrible HC from what I saw on Hard Knocks for Arizona, but he has been doing an incredible job at Washington as OC, his bread & butter.
I'm not sure he would have made a good HC and it would have been very painful if he got the HC job and then failed
I'm convinced that Bud would have crashed and burned as HC due to his...lifestyle (to put it kindly). Beamer protected him over the years, Bud stayed loyal to Beamer in return (outside of chasing the Clemson HC job when it went to Dabo instead). I don't think he would have done well without the Beamer pseudo-guard rails.
Could you imagine if Bud was the HC in 2018 and that was the way he left college football?
I know some people wanted the fairytale ending of him replacing Beamer but he was never head coaching material to begin with.
Wonder if we could hire Pry back as DC and get back some of that buyout money, assuming Franklin would want him and players would still be willing to play for him. Just because he wasn't a good HC doesn't mean he wouldn't be a good coordinator again. Also assuming Pry can swallow his pride. With all that said, probably too much to overcome to actually happen.
The now I think about it, I think the optics of hiring him back under Franklin would show there is no bad blood and we don't hold grudges. That could pay off down the line with future searches, especially in this climate
So he gets fired and replaced, then his replacement offers him a job but the guy who fired him is still there and a huge swath of the fanbase has been saying, "I'm so glad he's gone", "that guy sucked", "anyone but him".
I've told this story before, but the spring before his first season I took my daughter and some of her friends to watch a softball game at VT. After the game we went to PK's, and Pry was there talking to people as if he were just another fan. We spoke for a bit and he took a picture with the kids. I shook his hand and wished him good luck on the season. He patted me on the shoulder and thanked us for supporting VT.
I had similar experiences with Pry. Ran into him a number of times out and about in town. He was always gracious with his time. Never seemed in a hurry and would willingly chat, take pics, or even offer a hand if needed. He got the community in a real way. It is super unfortunate that the coaching part didn't work out because it will be hard to do better from a man of the people perspective. Always seemed like a genuinely nice guy.
I think before the season it could've been a possibility for Pry to step down to DC and Franklin (if he had been available) to step in as HC. Now, after what happened in the first couple games, Pry can't be a coach at VT until all the current players are gone. There's a non-zero chance if Franklin gets hired that Pry returns to Blacksburg, a place and a school he genuinely loves, to be on Franklin's staff. But that's 5 years down the road.
Offsetting your own offset. That's something I dont think I have ever seen.
Could happen. If Franklin is the HC, Im sure he would have 100% control on coaching staff. If he wanted Pry as DC and Pry wanted the job, then it happens.
I guess it would save $800K to $1.5M a year. And maybe allows for a little bit more cash for an OC.
Wonder if Anthony Poindexter would be interested in the DC position. Would bring instant recruiting from the area and he has been trying to climb that ladder.
Pry is an elite DC. At least, he has been. I would imagine he is also damn good at the dinner table with mama. Not having the pressure of being HC....if he were willing to do something totally out of character for most people, be humble, I could see it working. It would be weird at first, but so is the offseason. Especially this offseason.
Brent Pry coached their defense from 2016 to 2021. Penn State was already pretty good at defense before he arrived and have been even better since he left. I'm not sure how much of his defensive success was him vs Penn State. It seems like they've just recruited really well and have been kind of plug-and-play from a DC standpoint. I'm not sure he can really be called an ELITE DC. Serviceable to good, for sure. But elite? I'm not sold.
also, looking at how the defense rankings pin-balled up and down throughout the 2010s makes you wonder if their scheduling impacted that. The B1G, outside of OSU and maybe Michigan, isn't known for offenses. Were some of those defense rankings inflated simply by who they played in those years (or, perhaps more accurately, who they didn't play?)?
I don't have the time to go and look at their schedule for those years but there's almost a pattern there that would suggest the years they had stellar defense rankings might have coincided with years they didn't have to play some of the tougher teams in the B1G. Just some food for thought.
I mean I would think that is a normal thing as well especially with the climate and time of year we are in. Even if it was after the year you can only wait on a guy for so long.
It doesn't seem out of the ordinary like we are trying to play hardball it's just "Hey if it's gonna be a no we want to know now so we aren't stuck in late January with our other options already scarfed up b/c you took your sweet time."
A deadline that conveniently allows time for Auburn or Kentucky to enter the pool as well..
I'm looking forward to the inevitable reporting about how tech made a serious run at him and were very aggressive and demonstrated their commitment but they just couldn't reach an agreement.
Either those teams are already talking to Franklin, in which case, the timing of the deadline isn't that important, or those teams will have to fire a coach, make their pitch to Franklin, and get an offer on the table that beats Tech's offer, all before Monday at EOD.
But like you, I am also anticipating the same reporting.
I feel like the last time there were rumors of something coming to fruition, and then it actually came to fruition was ... maybe the Devon Hunter commitment? That one didn't exactly workout the way we all thought it would.
Auburn is probably convincing themselves they can do better than Franklin. Kentucky is intriguing but falls into the same issue that Arkansas has in that Franklin can't win there. Too many great teams in the SEC to ever have a chance to legitimately rebuild his image.
Is Stoops actually going anywhere? Seems unlikely, although I think a number of programs, including us, would be smart to hire him. Rumor has always been he's waiting for Iowa.
Franklin won at Vanderbilt....have to imagine he would find a way to make Kentucky respectable. Arkansas I agree with you on. Razorbacks just haven't gotten behind their program much in last 20 years.
If the offer is on the table we need to try to get him to sign today and get him on College GameDay with a VT polo singing our praises tomorrow morning.
That was one thing that always stood out to me with the Buzz to VT hire. He was immediately putting the VT brand back into CBB by speaking on the March Madness set the day after the hiring.
Making CFB coaching carousel predictions is generally a fool's game. However, I feel 100% confident in predicting that Brent Pry would not be a part of Franklin's staff here if we land him
Especially when he wasn't fired b/c of the decline of the team. As Saban stated on Gameday, they were ranked pre-season number 2 bc of the conditions that Franklin had created at the program.
Agree...I don't like him due to his personality but, that being said, he's not run Programs mired in scandal or obvious malfeasance.
I think he is probably the hire that has the highest floor of those that we know to be available.
Now if he and Sexton are using VT as a bargaining chip (which I do think is still a significant possibility), then he will be hated in Blacksburg to an all new level.
Agree...I don't like him due to his personality but, that being said, he's not run Programs mired in scandal or obvious malfeasance.
Right. When I say I don't like Franklin I mean that in my group of coaches I don't like, there's Franklin, 10 foot of garbage, then Brian Kelly, Art Briles, High Freeze, etc. at the bottom of the barrel.
In modern day football, head coaches aren't just guys who can coach Xs and Os. You have to run an operation, especially at the bigger programs. Franklin has that experience and if he comes to VT I'll be happy, even though he's not a guy I'd like to have a beer with.
100% this.
My priority is to have the program modernized and the floor raised. So, I don't mind he's not the nicest guy in the world because that may be what it takes to get the job done. Mean and no scandals I can take if the job gets done.
Hate it, and shows we're not thinking the hire through 100%. I am very pessimistic about our ability to save the football program if he's on our top list of options right now.
I hate to say it but if we hire James Franklin I will take a serious break from watching and supporting Virginia Tech football. I am thoroughly convinced he will be a failure and it will be a waste of 4-6 years. His style of running a program is outdated and he brings nothing to the table for competing in the new era. He is however a good salesman, so I could see him saying the right things and winning over the right people to get the job. I hated the Pry hire at the time and convinced myself to have false hope for the past couple years, I will not do that again.
Also I'll be real, personality is playing a huge role here. I think the guy is an asshole, a fake tough guy, and a complete charlatan. He was selling snake oil to these recruits at Penn State and they were buying it. When you sign that many talented players, you're going to be pretty good. But take a look at his record, it isn't even really that good, given the talent they had. People are also giving him a pass for the Covid year and year after, where they greatly underachieved given the roster.
I also remember not thinking he was a very good coach at Vanderbilt, and numbers seem to back up that he was mostly a schedule merchant there (still impressive to win at Vanderbilt, but those teams were not as good as their records would suggest)
At Vanderbilt in 2012 he went 9-4 and 5-3 in SEC play and was ranked 23rd with six other ranked SEC teams that season all higher than 14th. 2013 they were 9-4 again and saw them beat Georgia, Florida and Tennessee, again finishing ranked, this time at 24th.
Prior to Franklin taking over Vanderbilt, they had TWO seasons with a winning record in FORTY years. 2008 they won seven games and 1982 they won eight games. Even his 2011 6-7 record in his first year at Vandy was more wins than any of those other 38 seasons with a losing record. The last time before Franklin they won nine games in a season was 1915.
Did he have the toughest SEC schedule those two years? No
Did he overhaul a completely dysfunctional program by Year 2? Absolutely.
After he left for Penn State, how many times did Vandy win 9 games in a season? ZERO. This season under Lea is likely to be the first time since 2013 they won 9 games again.
As for the recruiting classes at PSU under Franklin, they were good but not great. Top 10 twice in 12 years but most hovered between 14 and 20. He finished ranked in the Top 10 five times in twelve years and two other years finished 13 and 17. By that look, he surpassed his recruiting classes in terms of overall results.
Here are recruiting classes and final rankings:
2014 : 24th
2015: 14th
2016: 20th. : 7th
2017: 15th. : 8th
2018: 6th. : 17th
2019: 14th. : 9th
2020: 17th. : NR
2021: 20th. : NR
2022: 8th. : 7th
2023: 15th. : 13th
2024: 14th. : 5th
2025: 19th.
Preach.
I'm pretty confused by the original comment and thought i may have been taking crazy pills. Thanks for providing some eye opening stats.
How could his style of running a program be considered outdated when he was literally in the semi's last year?
Kinda crazy when you consider that Penn State never made the 4 team playoff or the BCS National championship game. There's been an official national championship game since 1998 and Penn State never made it nor the 4 team playoff which should have been significantly easier to make. Last year was literally the closest they've gotten to a national championship game since national championship games came into existence and they fired the guy like 6 games later
As usual Rayo, you've decided to completely ignore evidence and take a wildly inane position. Quit VT football if we hire Franklin (still unlikely IMO). You'll quickly realize your mistake.
It's funny you say that, I can't remember us ever having a major disagreement but I have found that I disagree with a vast majority of your posts on here. Which to each their own. Our brains work differently and that's fine.
I will counter and say that I'm not ignoring evidence. My evidence is conceptual and attempting to predict, what could go wrong with the potential hire and what attributes are needed to succeed. And getting beyond record what is necessary to win as a head coach at Virginia Tech. (*None of us have the time to put together a complete analysis of the data, and a lot of what's needed for the job is difficult to quantify so data driven evidence is not applicable here for the most part.) Most of what I've talked about has been acknowledged by media and people who are well regarded by the industry. Godfrey has echoed many of the criticisms of James Franklin and his record at Penn State that I've brought up, which I was glad to hear.
Now could Franklin come in and say "wow we're in no position to compete right now and resource wise we don't have what we need to flip it in a couple years, so I'm going to use my industry connections to hire elite undervalued coaches to develop our guys and run a scheme that allows us to do the most with the players at our disposal". THAT could work, definitely! But that is totally different from saying we're going to do Penn State at Virginia Tech. And it's also very different from the current value prop on Franklin, which is recruiting and wins at previous stops (with the aforementioned recruits).
To be fair I'm not saying he will fail miserably here, but I do think it's ultimately a waste of time because he doesn't have what we need to win here. We may get a few 7-5 seasons (which we will pay for at top dollar). But I don't see him winning more than 8-9 games here, and that being well above the mean for his time here (that being around 6-7 wins).
As far as quitting VT football, yeah that would be difficult. I've known the whole roster etc year to year since I was a kid. But if it's doomed to fail and a waste of time whats the point?
I wanted to come and apologize for my comment, it was too harsh. I was drunkish and stressed at 4 AM and still had an unknown time to go with my all-nighter (ended up being about an hour and a half).
I can't remember us ever having a major disagreement but I have found that I disagree with a vast majority of your posts on here. Which to each their own. Our brains work differently and that's fine.
I had the same thought. I feel like I disagree with you and VTJ12 the most during the season. I'm usually on the same page with bar1990. What's been interesting in this coaching search is that I'm in step with VTJ12, not just for our search but for the general landscape. We both want Mullen or Franklin. And I don't agree with bar1990 who is high on Huff and thinks Fran Brown is attractive for PSU.
I have criticisms of Franklin too, but I think his level of success is hard to come by. He doesn't need elite talent and funding to be competitive, he didn't have either at Vandy. I think Franklin at VT would be somewhere between his regimes at PSU and Vandy. But those are still 9 win seasons, something we haven't accomplished regularly since 2016-17? Unless your definition of regularly is more than two years, so since 2011.
Don't quit though. I'd rather have you on this board than not, even if we annoy each other.
I dont think he gets enough credit for what's happening today at Vandy. He showed everyone that you could win there. They took a step back because they had no clue what to do after he left because they'd never been in that position. They learned, hire a guy, who learned he need help and then hired a football guy in Jerry kill. They figured it out, but I doubt they do that with out Franklin showing donors and three athletic department that it could be done.
This football program needs an asshole right now. Its not 2002 anymore and im not sure enough people in the administration realize that.
And bro, Franklin has career .688 winning percentage. Thats Frank Beamer territory and he has a bronze statue in front of the stadium that's on the street named after him.
Could he flame out? Yeah he could but a total flame out is unlikely. Our record the past decade is his flaming out record.
The only coach they could hire that would make me quit VT football would be Brian Kelly.
The only coach they could hire that would make me quit VT football would be Brian Kelly.
I'd be right there with you. I'd hate it, not having VT football to look forward to watching on the weekend (or not watch, if it's CW), but I'd hate Brian Kelly having the reins of the program even more.
He fucking killed a kid. He should be nowhere near coaching football.
Greg Schiano was all but hired for Tennessee and fans rioted online and pulled up all the dirt (Penn State ties) on him and forced the UT AD to rescind the offer.
I miss DC. He had some hot takes, but it was different. You could feel his frustration, and he was right more often than he was wrong. A bit brash, but 90% of his posts were well reasoned, though inflammatory and argumentative.
Anytime someone brings him up, you make a point to lay into him like it's your job to remind us all just how abrasive he was. And to be clear, I'm not defending anyone questioning if he should really be gone. I feel like what happened happened, the horse is dead, and we all should let him lay. My opinion is that any of it is noise at this point, and I don't feel that you, as a moderator especially, should be adding to it. Never said it was your call. I said you all did your jobs. I wasn't sure if it was a unilateral decision by Joe or if he asked for all of the moderators' input.
Anytime someone brings him up, you make a point to lay into him like it's your job to remind us all just how abrasive he was.
I thought maybe i forgot some comments i made or something so i went back and looked at my own post history and this .... Just isnt true?????????????
I have made exactly 3 comments about DC. one was "oh shoot" when hokietopher brought it up in the Hatin' On, the second was on LBT's "poll" thread which doesn't even say really anything about DC himself or his commenting style, the third was here.
Invite you to pull receipts if you think otherwise but geeze
Causing havoc amongst the military leadership with dumbassery. Also negatively effecting VA benefits. Another reason to hate Alabama. They keep electing him.
If he can't get the type of linemen he got at Penn State he won't do as well here as he did there, that's fact not subjective.
The power ratings of the teams he beat in the Big 10 aren't significantly different than the middle of the ACC, fact. So I don't buy the step down in competition argument.
I guess you can find subjectivity if that's what you want to see, but that's the gist of the argument. I would love to see some data refuting these concerns, but so far I've just gotten "no you're wrong"
I will concede there is a chance that it all plays out like this. Franklin isn't number 1 on my board either.
That said, his resume still kind of demands that we have to shoot our best shot for him. It's the best of any candidate out there by far, and he really shouldn't be looking for a job to begin with.
As said above, the only hire we could make that would get me to quit altogether would be Brian Kelly Killed a Kid.
"His style of program" you mean the one that had Penn St in the semifinals last year? Or the one that put Vandy football on the map?
I do not understand the dislike of Franklin. He's not a jerk like Kelly, not a blow hard like Kiffin, and not a snake oil salesman ala Dabo. He's confident and his teams win. Penn St is about to find out the hard way that the grass isn't greener.
"His style of program" you mean the one that had Penn St in the semifinals last year?
Question for you. Do you think Franklin is pulling linemen even close to what he's getting at Penn State to us? If the answer is no, forget about the semifinals. That is entirely immaterial to what he can or will do here
(If the answer is yes, my next question is where are we getting that money?)
Dabo isn't a snake oil salesman. He's a megachurch preacher. A snake oil salesman talks a big game, sells you a bill of goods, then you don't get developed and the team loses. I haven't pushed back on Pry being a snake oil salesman, even though I think he was genuinely selling VT, because he lost a lot of games.
Dabo the megachurch preacher brings everyone into to a cult-like atmosphere, where they sing kumbaya, hold hands, and then make a lot of money (in this case by winning a lot of games).
This is the kind of comment that gets screen captured and shared around to other sites and fan bases to ruthlessly mock VT fans for being hilariously out of touch to or own place in college football right now.
James Franklin is a guy we should be thanking whatever football gods you pray to that he's even interested in us
To be fair this type of bad message board post happens to every fan base. It's why Message Board Geniuses exists and isn't called VT Message Board Geniuses.
It is all part of our strategy to snag Franklin. If we hype him up too much someone else will swoop in and steal him. But if we trash him no one will want him and we can get him. /s
Do I think Franklin should be at the top of our list? No. I believe there are better options out there. But he's the smart/safe hire for this administration. Whit needs to nail this hire to save his job - he's not going to take a risk on a younger G5 guy even though I think that's probably the route with the most potential for success. Franklin represents a safe, tried-and-true hire with historically good recruiting chops (something we've been missing since Beamer's prime) and a pretty solid track record of moderate-to-good results. He'll absolutely raise the floor which is what Whit desperately needs. The fans all want a home-run guy who will come in and turn VT into some juggernaut in the ACC putting us in position to be an attractive addition to one of the P2 leagues when the ACC crumbles in 2030. That proposition comes with risk, however. That guy exists out there but we don't know who he is (is it Helton, Huff, Chesney, Sumrall, Chadwell...?? We just don't know. Good chance one or two of those guys blows up and the others don't. That's the game.). 4 years ago we had to pick between Brent Pry and Mike Elko. That was the risk we took and it didn't pay off for us. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Could Bob Chesney absolutely kill it and be the next Curt Cignetti? Yes. Also, he could completely flop like Justin Fuente. You just don't know - but I think guys like Chesney and Helton are worth the risk. But I'm also not the one who has hired 2 consecutive failed football coaches and desperately need to nail this third. I'm not the one who 'can't afford to get this wrong'. If Whit was fired with Pry and a new AD got the chance to hire our next coach I think it's more likely they'd go the risk-reward route and hire someone like Chesney. Whit can't afford that risk though. He needs the safe bet. Franklin represents that. It's no surprise to me that VT is rumored to be pursuing Franklin pretty strongly. I don't agree with it, but I get it. And if we end up hiring him I'll be fine with it. At the very least, I don't think we'll get any worse with him. But it's not going to be an exciting brand of football. We're not going to be hiring the next Mike Elko. But, also, we won't be getting the next Brent Pryrite either...so...pick your poison, I guess.
Everyone is also screaming, "Why didn't we hire Cignetti?? We let him get out right from underneath us!" Hindsight is 20/20. The only big program that took a shot on him was Indiana. No one knew how great he was going to turn out. They took a long-shot on a lottery ticket and it paid off for them. Indiana also had really nothing to lose and no real appreciable football history in the modern era, so if it didn't work out, nothing would have really changed.
Absolutely cannot take that risk right now at VT. Another dud/G5 type coach who cannot translate to this level and the program is absolutely finished. A guy with the resume and experience of Franklin you have to absolutely make a moonshot for if he's interested and available. Going to be expensive, but the return you get if it pays off will repay us tenfold many times over. And there's a ton less risk with a known quantity like him. Franklin will generate buzz and raise the program profile immediately.
To be fair, the Pry hire was far more of a gamble than Cignetti. Pry has done nothing in his career at that point that showed he was ready, but he shook Beamer's hand, and there's a certain code amongst guys who shook Beamer's hand.
I also think we had struck out on a few options already (Napier, maybe Campbell, maybe Clawson), said no to Elko, so Pry was like a Plan F at that point. The Beamer connections helped to sell it to the fan base and those in the inner circle around the program for sure.
Let's be honest, the big selling points about Pry were:
1) Connection to Franklin/the PSU program which has been tremendously successful and is eating our lunch in recruiting
2) Connection to Beamer/Bud and VT
Now we have the opportunity to actually hire the architect behind PSU in Franklin, and some people are weirdly against that?
Going to be expensive, but the return you get if it pays off will repay us tenfold many times over.
that's just it though. There's a chance this doesn't work out or pay off. The odds of Franklin taking VT to the promised land are not appreciably any better than the odds of (Helton, Chesney, etc.) taking us just as far. Where Franklin is the safe hire is that the odds of Franklin crashing and burning are theoretically lower than the odds of Helton/Chesney/etc. crashing and burning.
Franklin figures to be much more expensive than the younger G5 guys. So what would we be paying for? We'd essentially be paying for better odds at a higher floor. There's a chance Franklin doesn't work out and it doesn't pay off. We could pay him huge sums of money to basically keep us right where we are. I agree that Whit can't risk taking a flier on a relative unknown. It makes a lot of sense that he's going hard after a known quantity because this surely will be his last chance to hire a football coach for VT. The likeliest scenario is that Franklin will immediately get us to 8+ wins and keep us in the 8-10 win range most years. But there's also a risk that we'll pay him a ton of money to only win 6. That's Whit, though. I think VT can afford to risk it on a younger guy for a real moonshot. We'd risk paying less money to a relative unknown so we have more money for the assistants/support staff. That relative unknown could bungle things but at least then we wouldn't be completely coach poor and VT could reset with some of the leftover cash we won't have if we pay Franklin and he fails. Alternatively, the relative unknown could be the next Cignetti/Elko/Dabo/Smart etc. We know Franklin isn't going to win any championships here. We don't know that Chesney/Helton/etc. wouldn't. The risky part is that we don't know that they would either. We know think Franklin would win 8 games here almost immediately. We don't know that Chesney/Helton would. But they could. If it were me, I'd risk it on a guy like Chesney. There's two gambles here. You either gamble that Franklin won't crash and burn or you gamble that Chesney hammers it out of the park. Franklin is surely the safer bet. But the tradeoff with safe is that you know he's not going to win championships for you.
VT is in the worst position we've been in in my lifetime. College football is changing rapidly around us. This is an inflection point. We could play it safe, hire Franklin and hope that he elevates our profile enough to get interest from the P2 when the ACC collapses. Or we could swing for the fences, gamble on young up-and-comer with an exciting vision for the future, save some money to put into assistants so the new guy can surround himself with truly valuable assistants and hope that they elevate our program enough to get into the P2 when the ACC collapses.
Both are gambles. The safer bet has a lower payoff but far more damaging ramifications if it doesn't work out. The riskier bet has much higher payoff potential but also higher odds of failing - though the failure would be financially much less painful with the riskier option, affording us a mulligan. In my view, you take the option that will hurt you less if you're wrong but help you more if you're right, rather than the option that won't be as great if you're right but will hurt you a ton more if you're wrong. At the end of the day we don't KNOW for sure which way it'll go. I'd hedge my bets. If I'm gonna be wrong, I don't want to be SUPER wrong. That's Franklin, imo. Less likely to be wrong, but more painful if you are.
It really doesn't matter if we go expensive or go cheap on this hire and it doesn't pan out. The end result is the same - VT is left out of the new world order of college football, the program loses a ton of money/revenue, and the economic impact to the state and region is devastating and permanent. I'm in favor of going all in on a moonshot because Franklin is much more of a known quantity (proven winner and ace recruiter in the P2) than taking a shot on potential from an up-and-comer. If Franklin doesn't work out, then it really doesn't matter because VT football will be done for as we know it.
Franklin will raise the profile and national attention of the VT program day one of being hired. We have to get ourselves back in the conversation, and he's the safest bet and quickest path to getting national relevance back and an immediate turnaround in recruiting/roster overhaul due to regional ties and proximity. It will be expensive, but again if it pays off that doesn't matter. And if it doesn't pay off, then it still won't matter because the end result will be VT is left out of the top tier of football.
I disagree. If we go expensive and it doesn't work out we're completely screwed. If we go cheap and it doesn't work out we have a shot at a mulligan. I think there's time between now and the ACC completely falling apart for two coaches. If the first coach isn't working out in the first couple years you cut ties and move on. You can't' do that with Franklin because you'll be completely coach poor. You pay Franklin now and hope he works out because if he doesn't you're fucked. Or, you risk it on another coach and if he doesn't work out you get one more shot. That's the difference.
You're right from a financial perspective, but not from a timing perspective. We won't know if Franklin or anyone else is a bust for 3 years (or more). At that point the dominoes will have fallen on conference realignment.
Gonna disagree there. Franklin is only an option/available because Pedo state is stupid and unreasonable with their coaching expectations of Franklin.
Franklin is a sure bet to raise our floor and most likely the ceiling as well, there's really no guarantee we get that with anyone else outside of Saban, Smart, Sark, Lanning, Day, maybe one or two others. Not even sure Lanning would if you remove him from Nike money.
It seems you've missed my point. Scared money goes after the sure thing. You're saying Franklin is the closest thing to a sure thing. I'm not saying scared money isn't smart money. But I am saying hiring Franklin is a scared money move.
You are confusing scared money with smart money. Hiring Franklin is smart money. You get more assured ROI, and whatever ceiling you think is there is higher than what we deem to be the baseline of success here.
No, I'm not. I even said smart money and scared money aren't mutually exclusive. But everyone thinks Franklin is as close to a sure thing as there is. Scared money always goes after the sure thing. By definition Franklin is the scared money option. I'm not saying that's bad or dumb but it absolutely is scared.
I think Franklin would be a good coach at VT. I don't know that he would. I think it's possible to overpay for what he's done. I'd like to backload his contract with incentives. Don't pay him for what he's done at PSU... Pay him for what he's done at VT.
I think it's more that scared money is risk averse than it is going after the "sure thing". An unknown hire that costs $3m annually might be less risky than a $12m "sure thing" simply because it's easier to get out of and move on than being saddled with an 8 figure buyout if something goes wrong
Scared money is risk averse. Agree with that. I think where people are struggling to agree is on what is riskier. Is paying an unknown any amount of money riskier than paying a huge sum of money for a "known" quantity? I think that's the debate.
My stance is that paying an unknown any amount of money is riskier than paying a ton of money to Franklin. BUT (and I mean a big but) if we pay a ton of money to Franklin and he doesn't work out we're going to be really sorry for it.
I think Franklin is worth about 8-8.5 million for VT provided that we leave money left over to pay the staff he wants the money they deserve. I just don't think Franklin will come to VT for that amount of money. He's going to maximize what he can earn now before he coaches another game (and I don't blame him at all). My chief concern is that what it'll take just to get him here will be an overpay and leave us completely strapped for cash and if he doesn't work out (which, however unlikely anyone thinks that may be, we have to acknowledge that's possible) we'll be completely fucked.
Little Bobby Tables likes to mock me for the "more with less" mindset here but he's missing a nuance. I would rather pay market value for an unknown with potential (i.e. Paying closer to 5-6 million to a Helton or Chesney) but be prepared to pay upwards of 10-12 for a coach. What I mean is pay a guy less up front but give him the opportunity to prove himself and when he wins big and proves his worth then pay him what he's worth. I want to pay good coaches what they are worth. I don't expect to operate on a shoestring. But I think we're in a position where we have to take a shot on an unproven up and comer and then pay him for what he's done for VT. Paying a huge sum of money for a guy who has proven himself somewhere else is great if you're flush with cash. VT isn't. That's why I don't think Franklin is the move for VT.
The conclusion of that last paragraph contradicts your first few, though. You don't want Franklin because it's too risky to allocate the money it would take to get him. Helton/Chesney are just cheaper in case it doesn't work out... less risky, not more.
Eh. I think Franklin is less risky. The catch is that we have to pay more for less risk and it's my belief that the only way to get Franklin here is to pay more than he's worth to VT. I don't think paying him more than he's worth is riskier than paying an unknown less money. I just don't think it's worth it. Franklin to me is less risk AND less value. Helton would be riskier but I think it's a better value proposition.
My whole argument is that there are better VALUE options than Franklin. Risk isn't really the point.
And besides, this whole sidebar was kicked off by the "scared money don't make money" line. Regardless of what you think the risk is, everyone seems to agree that Franklin is the "safe" hire which is exactly what scared money goes after.
Franklin can be the smart money, safe, less risky, lesser value, scared money option. All of those can be true.
Pry was the scared money. Low risk, low potential reward.
Franklin is the road less traveled. He's a statement hire for VT. Franklin is the higher risk, because you have to actually pay a premium to get him. Do you get an adequate return on the investment? We don't know. And whether he's really interested or just "playing the game" is as of yet undetermined. The only real risk is if you think Franklin can't make improvements to the football program. I think he can.
Nvidia isn't scared money. It's speculative money. It's a gamble.
Buzz Williams was the road less traveled. Was he worth it? Well, we got lucky and he was subsidized, but I'd say he was definitely worth it.
VT certainly doesn't have to pay Franklin, but if they can find an arrangement that works for both Franklin and VT I think he's a good bet, and a potential shortcut to national prominence after years in the desert. Not worth mortgaging the grandchildren's futures over, though. You have to convince some boosters to support it.
There are other options, but he's a valid one if they can make the numbers work.
Pry was scared money, but if we are looking ar risk the impact of pry was small because of cost but the likelihood he succeeded was also low. Franklin has a big impact if he fails because of his price but the likelihood he succeeded is higher.
The impact of Pry was more the time wasted, and the diminishing perception of the program, while still paying a decent chunk of change.
Franklin sends a message just through the hire: that VT is serious about college football. I think he has a recruiting effect immediately, and I agree that the likelihood of success is higher.
Either you get him or you don't, but even pursuing him sends a message about intent. This is the range of coach we want it known we're in the market for.
What Cignetti was doing was objectively incredible that the time though. They were not just winning, but winning every game and blowing people out, at a higher level of football. Didn't even know he had been at Alabama, but that should've sold it to anyone interested
We've done the "hot" G5 coach before. Didn't work out (probably more due to inability to fire people but still...) And EVERYONE in the sports world thought Fu was a homerun hire.
People want to hire another G5 HC whose ability at the P4 level is unknown over a coach who has coached and coached well at the top of the P4 (PSU may not be OSU, Bama, Mich blueblood but they are right under it).
It just boggles my mind. Franklin makes the most sense. Will he stay forever? Probably not. If he took us to a natty I bet he would be hired away the following year. But he will have put us in a way better place to find another hot coach in that position than where we are now.
We are drowning and people want to tell us to change our stroke to swim instead of just throwing out the life preserver.
if money wasn't a limiting factor (i.e. we had lots of it to blow on anything and everything) then I'd agree. But that's not the case. It's a limited resource for us and we have to consider how we spend it. I think Franklin would be a good hire for VT. Don't get me wrong, I'm not AGAINST Franklin so much as I don't think he's the BEST option for us. But he's going to squeeze every last penny out of us. And I don't know that he's worth it. I'd rather spend a little less on a lesser known quantity and save some cash for the assistant coaching pool/staff and bank a little as a contingency incase the lesser known quantity isn't working out (which, we will know relatively quickly whether or not he's working out). With Franklin, you risk blowing your whole wad on him and then not getting much better. If we pay him 12mm and he doesn't have any money left over to bring in good assistants he could fail and fail miserably and then we could be in a really big world of hurt. Much worse than we're in now.
One difference between you and me is that a salary of 10-12 million isn't an option for anybody to me. The offer is 5-7 at most depending on experience and qualifications. Franklin might get the high offer of 7. He is a coach that was fired for multiple reasons and has an offset clause. He accepts at 7 and gets 3-4 million for his staff or we TELL him to walk. In my mind, Franklin is first among equals, but is not essential and Whit has to be willing to walk away. If the Agent is an ass, tell Franklin that the agent cost him the job and good luck elsewhere. There is a time that everybody needs to be willing to walk away.
The money has been promised, it hasn't been raised and might not. We can't afford to hire somebody and then not be able to make the payments. Look at UNLV where Mullen is working on a contract that is bankrupting the school and causing them to stop payments to players.
There are multiple G5 up and comers that will accept a job between 5-7 in a heartbeat that might have a lower floor but about the same ceiling. For those G5 coachs, a 5 million dollar contract is at LEAST five times their current salary if not 10 times.
I'm not entirely sure that's a difference between us. I think you and I agree to an extent. I Don't think Franklin will take 7 million. But I also don't think VT should pay him 10-12. IF we get Franklin for 7 million that will be a major coup and I would feel pretty good about it. If we back up the brinks truck and pay him anything more than 8 or 9 I'm not going to be excited about it but I'll feel decent that we at least got a coach who should be pretty decent. If we end up hiring Bob Chesney for 4-5 million and give him 2-3 for his OC/DCs and another 1-2 for the rest of his staff I'll be super stoked and excited for football next year.
I'd say that Franklin is probably in the top 15 of coaches based on what he's done historically. He'll be a great recruiter and consistent winner but he won't win you championships. What would be the compensation for the 15thish ranked coach? Like I said, I don't think he'd take 7. I also don't think he's worth 10-12. I think he'd probably be worth about 8ish to 9ish. But that's a lot to pay somebody who hasn't done anything for you yet. It's kinda why I like the route of a G5 coach. I'd rather be the school that ups a guy's pay based on what he's done for me than be the school to pay huge gobs of money to a coach who did something of value for someone else.
consistent winner but he won't win you championships
But this is exactly what VT needs right now. If we get back to being consistently good, then we are well-positioned for whatever college football looks like next. Then, we can worry about championships.
By that time, Franklin will either be the guy, or we'll be in a better position to find the next guy who can elevate us further. We will have solidified our position such that we can then afford to take a riskier, high-upside shot.
okay, let's for a moment agree that that is what VT needs right now. Do you pay well above market for that? That's the question I'm asking. I think Franklin would be a good coach for VT. I don't think he'd come here for anything less than 8 million. I think he's worth about 8.2 million AT MOST. And people are throwing around 10-12. Would you pay 10-12 for "consistent winner but he won't win you championships"?
It's not about what VT needs. It's about what Franklin is worth to VT.
Just curious - if we were guaranteed top 10 finishes year in and year out, what would that be worth? I'm not saying Franklin is the guy to do it (or that he couldn't), but what should be the top dollar for a "Nick Saban" in today's environment?
By next year there will almost certainly be closer to 20 coaches over the $10M a season mark based on the openings we already know about. Four of the coaches between 11 and 20 now have received extensions that put them above $10M next season. Drinkwitz is also in that group so either Missouri re-ups him or he likely gets the raise from one of the openings. If Cristobal wins out to make the CFP, I believe he already has a clause that would increase him to $10.5M next season.
Fair point. I don't think we need to be top 10 in coach's pay, so using Ltrepeter's numbers below, the range for the top 11-25 is currently $7.5-9M, with Rhule being #15 at $8 point something. So your max of $8.2M seems spot on.
But that's all based on the #'s from the last cycle and they are destined to go up due to current supply and demand imbalance. We're already seeing it with the coaches signing extensions. It would be great if the range for a top 25 coach only shifted to $8-10M, but that is unlikely. I do think the bottom half of the top 25 could be in that range.
And that is likely to be our struggle with Franklin. He would argue he is a top 10 coach and while I believe we can say with some certainty he'd make us into a top 25 team quickly, not sure about top 10.
So your argument that we shouldn't pay top 10 money for 11-25 results is valid. The problem is we don't know where the new split is going to be between 1-10 and 11-25.
I honestly don't care where the Coaches Salary database puts us. They should be paid based on performance with rights to increase accordingly.
Shane is actually a great example.
He was hired at 3 mil. Two years later after good performance he was redone at 5-6 and then after continued good performance raised to 8. That is how contracts for new or raised G5 coaches should be done. Reward coaches for good performance with raises and bonuses. They should know the base will be increased based on performance.
I'd be in favor of an offer at $6-7MM + $2-3MM/yr deferred 5 years (or whenever the PSU contract ends) based on performance and longevity. He wins, his agent wins, PSU pays an offset, and the Hokies save some cash while hopefully generating more revenue with a better product on the field.
The offer is 5-7 at most depending on experience and qualifications.
That would barely put us in the Top 50 of head coaching salaries
Our fanbase needs to wake up and realize th climate has significantly changed since the last time we were good. The price to compete is significantly higher than it used to be.
I think something that is important that a lot of people don't talk about or aren't considering is merit increases. I think paying a guy who hasn't coached a single game for you 10 million is bordering on insane. Start him at 7 but build in incentives. If he wins big for you then you up his pay. Pay him for what he's done for you. Not for the promise of what he might do. The starting salary for coaches should be well under what a program is willing to pay a coach. If that coach performs well then you pay him accordingly. If not, then you cut him lose and start over with the next guy without putting yourself in a huge hole. The problem is that coaching agents are evidently far savvier than their counterparts at universities so we've got these wild contracts that are heavily tilted in the favor of coaches.
They don't have to be that savvy. The supply vs demand gives them a huge advantage.
Right now Franklin is the only truly available candidate and there are three SEC openings, two Big 10, two ACC openings, and one Big 12 opening in the P4. Eight jobs and that number may double by Monday. Most of those fired are not even being considered by the P4 as a viable replacement. Pretty easy negotiating when you are an agent in that position, especially when the current market rates are what they are.
Not to mention that the schools doing the hiring do this once every few years at the most. The agents do this multiple times a year, every year. They have heard all the pitches, all the ideas, all the plans before. Nothing is going to surprise them or put them off balance. Meanwhile the school has to play catch up every time.
Again, I don't care what other teams are doing. I know what Tech can afford to do. The money isn't there yet. It hasn't been raised, it hasn't been delivered.
Do what is and has been historically approved nationwide. Hire for medium with bonuses built in and escalators for performance. If you hire at 5 million, and give a 1 million bonus for 10 plus wins great. Coaches accept these deals all the time. Franklin might think he is above this, but one thing to remember is that he has a offset clause. Penn State can be huffy all they want, but it is a competitive salary at 5-7.
You should, because this is what sets the market for coaches of every level. We don't get to hire or play in a vacuum. Even if we think it is too much, that is what they cost now.
Coaches accept these deals all the time.
If we hire a coach on these terms we can expect to get the same results that other teams that hire coaches on those terms get.
When Godfrey was talking about the questions that Tech was going to ultimately have to answer to agents about the financial commitments and infrastructure changes we need to make he made a comment that there are plenty of coaches who would take this job for cheap in a heartbeat, but what does that say about the quality of the candidates or the red flags that they may come with. Hiring someone who will accept just because we're paying them 5x or 10x their salary doesn't mean they're a quality candidate.
If he thought that VT wouldn't pay him what he thinks he's worth, along with enough to hire the coordinators he needs, then he wouldn't be considering VT.
FWIW (not much) - Joe Rexrode did a column in The Athletic this morning predicting the coaching carousel (all the potential jobs, not just currently available), and he did have Franklin to VT. His logic was more or less that VT is a better job for Franklin than a B-tier P2 school outside of his mid-atlantic base like Michigan State or Wiscy.
I'm still skeptical, but it's at least not just VT delusion saying there's a chance. Notably absent from Rexrode's predictions were UNC which IMO would have similar pros to VT (winnable conference, same recruiting footprint).
As time has gone on I'm more and more skeptical. Names that linger are never the ones. Could be wrong, but it's usually rumor to done deal inside of 24 hours.
I will happily eat my words if I prove to be wrong, but I stated before and continue to believe that Franklin will not end up coaching at VT. I believe that his career goal is to win a nation championship and VT is not the program he needs to reach that possible outcome. My bet is that he has instructed his agent to get him a job in the SEC at a school with a passionate fanbase that can offer him the NIL resources he needs to buy a competitive team. Until proven otherwise, I will continue to assume that Franklin and Sexton are simply using VT's interest to pump up his name and resume until an AD or committee at Florida, Auburn or LSU makes him an offer. Hope I am wrong, but the longer the "negotiations" drag out, the more convinced I become that VT is simply a bargaining chip in a bigger game.
I don't think any one is arguing this... people are debating if Franklin is a good coach. But I think everyone agrees this isn't a done deal until it's a done deal.
Right. I'm not really even sure anyone is debating whether he's a good coach. I think everyone agrees he's a good coach with a high floor who will demand a lot of money. He's the safe, albeit expensive, smart hire.
That said, I agree with fireman when he said this rumor has gone on for so long that it's extremely unlikely he'll wind up in Blacksburg. If he'd been announced this past week then it would have tracked. At this point it seems pretty clear he's not going to be our coach.
If it doesn't grow from rumor to official announcement within 48 hours then it's not likely to be true, imo.
The problem there is who else are you going to hire early with who else isn't coaching right now. Almost all the other coaches we have discussed are sitting coaches on bowl bound teams. Means they may be starting the job here with only a week or two to prep for the portal.
Oh they already did. Here's the flight tracking info from that post on r/VirginiaTech. Post is titled "James Franklin is signing today"
Flight tracking comment: N676VJ was the plane Franklin took to Blacksburg on 10/30 and is his departing plane this evening to Athens. Which is an hour from his lake house.
I think somebody throwing shit to the wall to see how much sticks. That plane did land in Bburg on the 30th and is also scheduled to depart Bburg at 5pm this evening bound for Athens , however this isn't the first time that particular aircraft has done this. We shall see if any truth to it.
Yea I agree. I think this is mostly a bunch of nonsense. Don't think we'll get any resolution in the next week really. Happy to be wrong, but I'm sure Franklin and Sexton and going to use the Auburn opening as leverage to inflate any offers he receives.
Quite the interesting reaction. How in the know would MacLain really be? I would think he'd possibly know a lot being that he works with Eddie but those pesky NDAs
I'm certain there are some discussions being had that would technically violate the NDA. "Don't tell anyone I told you this", wink, wink!
The NDA only means something if a party sues an alleged disclosing party and proves the disclosure was caused by them. Even then, how do they define the damages in a case like this?
It's almost more of an honor system - I signed this so I should behave accordingly.
Yeah I've signed plenty of NDAs so I get that part, I don't have friends in the media though and if I did and signed an NDA they're probably not the people I'd have those discussions with lol.
Just feels like another "leak" source to pad Franklin and Sexton
meh. Nothing burger IMO. Maclain wouldn't be in the know and even if he was, and he does know something, this reaction reveals relatively nothing. He's probably hearing the same scuttlebutt we all are
He's one of the faces on the ACC Network. Its literally his job to be plugged into the goings on of this conference before news breaks so he can be prepared to talk about it. He knows more about this process than any of us, and because of who he works alongside of, he likely more than any of the regular sources we have been leaning on.
It's a nothing burger because Maclain essentially just implied that he knows something about Franklin without actually hinting at what he might know or how that might or might not be related to VT. It has taught us nothing. I come away from it supposed to think that Maclain knows something. That gets me nowhere.
Sounds to me like he knows where Franklin's going and it's not Auburn. Doesn't mean he's right, and doesn't mean we are or aren't getting him, but as far as college football coaching rumors go, it's not nothing.
that's just it - it could have been anything. It could've been that Franklin is definitely going to VT or definitely not going to VT. Nothing was revealed here except perhaps that maybe he knows more than he's letting on. Which, big whoop.
VT football has been pretty dramatic this year. Close games, blowing leads, unpredictability. It's actually kind of exciting if you're ok with sloppy football.
Fair point! I didn't realize PSUs hospital was in Hershey, which is 2 hours away and isn't really different from having to get from Blacksburg to Charlottesville for quality care.
My youngest was in the NICU for 3 months at Carilion and everything we've had to do after for the last 4 years (therapies, surprised, procedures, at home care, etc) has been nothing but fantastic. People are quick to leave bad reviews but folks with good experiences rarely leave positive reviews.
I have heard many good things about the Carillion NICU, not so much their other programs. Depending on when your youngest was there, you probably ran into one of my sister in laws as she works in that program as a Nurse.
It would've been Sept 2021 through December 2021. My wife and I still do some work with the NICU now that she's on the parental advisory board, so I'm curious if she is still there, who it may be.
4 other schools? Man, this is like we made a recruit's Top 5 (no order - my recruitment is still open). Makes me write this off as not happening. Onto plan B I think
Truth is i'm only poking holes in the rumors / being pessimistic so that I don't get my own hopes up too high, as I often do with sports fandom. I'm fully aware that Tech and the fans shouldn't 'give up' on the idea of Franklin coming here
Why? Why move on? No deal from a currently employed coach is going to be finalized until the season ends. We can and should continue to pursue other coaches until Franklin tells us no. Unless you want Pat Fitzgerald or Jimbo Fisher (god, I just threw up in my mouth typing that) there is zero point to moving on from Franklin today.
Interested in Chesney? Go interview him. Ask him about who he would hire, his recruiting strategy, his salary expectations, NIL expectations, etc.
And at the same time, continue negotiating with Franklin. If you get an agreement, great. If you don't, then you haven't lost any momentum.
We're so used to getting big dogged that we'd rather preemptively remove ourselves from contract negotiations to make sure we don't get publicly rejected.
I mean, I think you're right - we should continue discussions (if there are even discussions) but I also think we need to draw a line in the sand. If Franklin has other suitors we need to determine what he's actually worth to us and lay that out for him. If it's not good enough for him then he knows where we stand and we focus on other coaches. If he goes after other opportunities and doesn't get what he wants and comes crawling back to us to agree to what we've laid out for him then great. What I don't want to happen is for us to act desperate and just give him everything he asks for regardless of whether it makes sense for us.
We can set the final offer out for him that is agreeable to us and continue discussions with other coaches. We don't have to flat out tell him no or shutdown the negotiations but if he's going to play hardball and leverage us and other institutions against each other we just need to make it clear what we're willing to offer and also (soft skill) send the message to him that we don't need him and we'll find another coach if he doesn't agree to what we're offering.
There's no need to put a final offer now. Everything is fluid. It's not just a single number - it's Comp + Staff Comp + Player Comp + Intangibles. Both side can feel out the market and continue feeling it out for another three weeks.
Why? Why move on? No deal from a currently employed coach is going to be finalized until the season ends.
Exactly. We're Christmas shopping in August right now. We should jump on a deal if we get the chance, but there is no need to be panicky about anything at the moment.
I would rather move on and make a decision than hang around the phone waiting for a call. If Franklin wants to be here, he needs to make a commitment or we should move on.
Why? It literally makes no sense. Early Signing day is late december; James Franklin already knows high school kids. The portal opens January 2nd-6th or something? There no need to get this done now other than to satisfy anxious fans.
Now, if it's the Monday after thanksgiving, I'm open to this argument. But it's not.
James Franklin would have to let go of a lot of pretty to go back to Maryland. They made him head coach in waiting when Friedgen was HC and backed out of it and hired Randy Edsall instead. I've heard multiple times on podcast that he still holds this against them and while at Penn State made a point of running up the score against Maryland when he could.
To be clear, I hope he's still mad at them since it removes another potential suitor.
I don't know that I buy that. That sounds like agent bs. If he had that many schools interested in him, and let's assume some were high profile SEC jobs, I don't even think we would have gotten anywhere near this far in discussions. Truthfully, I think he doesn't have many options/the options he and his agent thought he might have, and Sexton is trying to generate smoke to get us to pay more and more.
With the money we'll be investing into him, don't be surprised if he ends up having a personal jet or helicopter for those trips, and the cost being baked into the contract.
Yeah, JF is a helicopter guy for sure. If I was a multi-millionaire though I would still ride the train. Love trains. Man if this country had real high-speed rail...
I would love high speed rail here, just to explore. And for the train experience. I took the shinkansen a few times in Japan and it was worlds better than flying.
Will likely NEVER happen in the USA outside of specific areas like the NE corridor and Brightline in south Florida; why? cause the tracks are owned by the freight lines which means their trains get all the priority. Would need to build dedicated tracks which means new rights of way , environmental studies, NIMBY issues. The distances in this country are vast compared to any European country (except Russia) or Japan.
oh man don't get me started on trains, best travel experience of my life was going up to and back from Connecticut on the train to visit my best friend and his wife about a year ago. Real high speed rail would be so transformative
Eh - I wouldnt stress about this too much. Blacksburg is just as close to a sickle cell center of excellence as State College. Im sure PSU Hershey has hematologists that treat sickle cell, but it isnt a center of excellence. There just simply arent enough patients with sickle cell in that area for it to be. In our area, Blue Ridge Cancer Care (or Carilion Peds Heme) has enough experience to handle sickle cell, but certainly would work with larger centers for complicated cases.
Really is such a shame how bad and unreliable is now. That summary really was just a full nothing burger and a rehash of a segment.
The only thing that makes me curious is if Franklin said anything to Herbie when he was on Gameday about possible spots. Even it was asking an opinion on towns/schools/atmosphere kind of thing.
Yeah, i only thought it was just interesting that it had just dropped when i posted it. i didn't post the link necessarily for the content but because of the timing that the article was released. 🤷🏼♂️
How the message board dudes are thinking James Franklin is gonna pull up at the basketball game tonight pic.twitter.com/s2Qxkhtbcq— Bodie (@BodieBates9256) November 3, 2025
Adam Boitnott probably is in the know. He is CEO of Hylaine and very connected in the AD. He and his wife funded the women's basketball locker room renovation at Hahn Hurst.
I know there's some reverence for BAG on this site, but didn't he pretty much get run out of here for most of his hints being wrong or it turning out to be super underwhelming like a low 3 star commitment?
Considering everything we know and what we can see with our own eyes indicates VT Board/Sands backed out of firing Fuente at the last second, I still believe those Elliott rumors were legit.
Yeah JUGS just fell off the face of the earth. Last post I can remember was right after the infamous Whit dehumanizing press conference in 2020, and was just like wow I don't know what happened here. And then poof no more JUGS.
I know that Elko has been talked about as someone who was interested last time, and things probably shake out here similar to Duke as far as him leaving for A&M, but what a sliding doors moment for our program.
I may be misremembering but I feel like there was some debate whether the BAG on Twitter was the same one who posted here because he used to be generally correct on TKP (or was for a while) and once he stopped posting here and was posting more on Twitter it was pretty consistently wrong.
Either way, it's been forever since I thought about BAG.
Off subject a little bit, but does anyone remember Willard from 247, always dropped cryptic riddles about things a la B-Street style?
I don't post or even read over there anymore so don't know if he's still around.
We ran him off. He'd come to us with info and people challenged him on it and he didn't want to blow up his sources, so he quit. It really made me mad because he had a good source with good info that he was feeding us and certain people pissed him off because they thought their sauce was more correct and they HAD to be right. Probably the most mad I've ever been at the TKP Community at large, and that's considering the COVID threads and posters like Bender/Shockwave and DCWilson.
He had a decent source, I believe within the equipment department, that left the program either when Fuente took over or during his first couple of seasons.
I don't remember exactly when BAG got ran off, but towards the end he was just reading the tea leaves. I wish he was still on here and I wish he would've just let it go after he lost his source.
I read scuttlebutt at one point toward the end that he was simply pretty much copying from behind paywall scoops on 247 and regurgitating here as an insider. Not sure if that's 100% accurate or not, but a lot of clout chasers out there.
Jeez. You know some of this does sound familiar now that you mention it. I was none too thrilled about it either, sauces or not he was good people. Probably still is.
Racking my brain, but I don't even remember BAG, whether that was an acronym or a word in their username. But then again, I'm over 50, and memory is the third thing to go.
I said that once to a GS15 from the sponsor (who had started where I am now and I know well). She responded, "TMI." I had to immediately backtrack, "No no no, I wasn't going there!" 🤣
When it comes to the next coach I am clearly out here just trying to read tea leaves. With that said I do think Franklin comes to VT obviously I have no idea when.— Adam Boitnott (@Boitnott) November 4, 2025
yeah as I stated below he rolled back everything that he tweeted last night
White Smoke Down. Let's see what tomorrow brings. At this point I'm going to need to see him in Blacksburg to believe it. Another tip of the hat to the committee keeping us all guessing.— Adam Boitnott (@Boitnott) November 4, 2025
If no announcement in the next day or two, we need to be talking with the next option(s). Not saying we can't continue talks and keep the door open for Franklin, but we can't wait around forever. He either wants the job or he doesn't. To a certain extent I understand some time to make some back channel calls/talks to assemble a staff and gauge player interests. But again, have to be prepared for contingencies and can't let this drag out forever with all eggs in one basket.
I still feel like ultimately we get this done though. But the whole process and agent games is tiresome.
He did. I meant our G5 coach hire is either going to crash and burn like Fuente did or exceed expectations like Cignetti. I didn't mean hire him specifically.
Auburn came open less than 48 hours ago. I get wanting a quick resolution to this, but if you think we're going to get any answer from Franklin or his agent without them doing due diligence on the possibility of being the HC at Auburn, we're only fooling ourselves.
We have the potential to be a good to great football program, but right now we are dogshit. We are only playing ourselves the fool if we try to play hardball with any top coach who is interested in coaching here. We just need patience, and if he goes to Auburn, it is what it is, its legitimately a better job than VT.
That said, I do suspect the interest from Auburn to Franklin isn't as strong as we would think. They have their sights set on someone with a higher perceived ceiling than Franklin.
I agree - I think others are higher on the board for Auburn, like Sumrall. I think most of this is Sexton creating leverage. But at some point, shit or get off the pot.
We have no leverage. If Franklin doesn't coach here, someone is going to hire him. And if we start trying to throw around a big dick, with the actual program we have right now, that's how you end up with a situation of everyone turning you down and needing to resort to a career assistant coach like Brent Pry.
We aren't good enough to act like that anymore. Like it or not, we're at a point where we need to have patience and let this play out.
I don't think you're right about no leverage. We have money and a good opportunity for a turnaround situation.
But you're right when you say we can't be acting like smug idiots.
We put forward our best case, and look for who we think would be the best coach. I suspect we'll be fairly patient, but will also be looking for a strong alternate.
Our leverage is that there are worse opportunities sitting open right now. Franklin could wait too long and find himself settling. I am in the camp that LSU, FL, Auburn bases think Franklin is beneath them. So he's picking between us, Ok St, or waiting for more dominos to fall.
Why would you assume they aren't doing that right now? I highly doubt all their eggs are in the one basket. Just because there is smoke around Franklin doesn't mean that the search committee is sitting around a table, staring at a phone and waiting for a call. I'm sure they're continuing to do their due diligence on other coaches. I'd like to think they can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Not sure why there's this "All right, pack it in," on Franklin on November 4th. The earliest (external) hire that I can find from last year was on Nov 26 (Mississippi St.). Could be I found an incomplete list, but this just isn't typical coach hiring time yet. It would be wonderful to get it done early. Lots of time left though.
Oh, for sure. I'm not saying don't pursue him aggressively. Would love to sign him today.
What I'm pushing back on is the idea that we need to move on. Unless they're completely incompetent, they're identifying/pursuing/interviewing multiple people all at once. There seems to be this idea that there's a huge opportunity cost to what's going on with Franklin. That just doesn't make a ton of sense to me, given where we are in the calendar.
Announcing this hire during an ACC Network Extra basketball game at a time when probably half of the people that would be watching don't have access would have been so dumb. Also, I can't believe it didn't happen.
I don't think there's any reason to
A) believe that Franklin isn't interested anymore.
B) "Move on" all of the rest of our candidates are going to be coaching for the next 2 months so we should stay with Franklin until he's announced otherwise.
On A any good agent and especially Sexton is going to look at the Auburn opening regardless if Franklin is interested or not just to get leverage for his client, that's going to take time and delay any timelines. This could happen every week until the end of the season for all we know.
I want Franklin to be the next coach and I'm sitting here like everyone else waiting for an ESPN breaking news. But if we have moved on from him we aren't hiring the next till after the regular season at the earliest. Even if they had a verbal agreement with Chesney there's gonna be no announcement until his regular season is over at the earliest.
Franklin is available now. He has time and honestly so do we, though we'd like to get the ball rolling early of course. This past weekend is when I've read the most about a deal seeming close or done in principle but nothing signed.
so if Franklin has said "Yes, I'll accept the job now lets work out the details" that takes some time as well. Bonuses, coordinator candidates and salary, etc.
Yes but, they are all going to reach a verbal agreement before lawyers/agents draw up any documents and the normal back and forth of detail negotiations occur.
As well, it may include additional silence clauses as the new HC contacts sub coaching staff to go over additional details in order to accurately asses financial requirement of at least OC and DC ballpark costs.
To be honest, if it isn't Frankin and another coach is selected all they have to say is a coach has been found. He will complete his current regular season and then the announcement will be made.
While it would be great for VT to hire franklin early so he can start rooting, i dont expect to get a hire of anybody until the typical end of November/early December time frame. Too much incentive for agents ahd coaches to wait until then and the larger coaching landscape is at least a bit more clear as to what will be open.
Sorry, Coach Franklin, but we're going to have to pull our offer. The fans on the message boards set a hard deadline, and you failed to make a timely decision on our hypothetical offer that we're assuming you received an unknown amount of time ago.
I used to be the one doing the marinating and grilling of those.
Add in some mushroom sauce, the roasted garlic mashed potatoes with chicken gravy and crispy onion straws, and the cornbread and you had the best meal 2.15 on a flex account could buy.
If you graduated in 07 like myself, then I ate many many servings of that meal you just described. I studied the line and the times to figure out the best times to go and would adjust my meal schedule, or on/off campus schedule accordingly. My mouth is watering right now.
Oh you definitely served me as well. Between a chicken steak with provolone and a taco bowl from the singing server in the Mexican stand nextdoor, those were the days, my friend.
So Eric Mac Lain, Kirk Herbstreit, and Pat McAfee all seem to know something . Andy Bitter said publicly that he thinks Franklin to VT is going to happen. I know we're the most snakebitten pessimistic fanbase in the country, but I can't help but think we're looking good here.
We get it, you don't want us to hire him. But this is the James Franklin thread. You don't have to keep reading or commenting if you're tired of talking about him.
Let me be clear. I think he'd be a good hire for us. It's not that I don't want hire him. It's that I don't want to overpay for him. And I also don't subscribe to the idea that if we don't land him we're destined for purgatory. I'd be happy if we hired him and not devastated if we don't.
I have OCD and have to read each thread when it pops up with unread comments. It's a thing... Sorry, not sorry.
I think we've beaten the JF horse to death. There are people who really really want him. People who don't want him. Then me (and probably others) who is kinda luke warm on him.
At the end of the day none of us really have any idea what's going on with our hiring process. Lots of smoke around JF and VT. Hard not to get excited about it but cmon, at this point we're all just saying the same things over and over again. I'm just ready for JF to be off the board. Ideally VT signs him for a-not-too-unreasonable amount of money. But if he goes elsewhere so be it.
I'll say following our fan base on all the different message boards throughout this saga has been epic. The 247 threads had been non-stop entertainment. Got hyped over a plane from PA to Blacksburg earlier today on flight tracker, it was a single prop crop duster 😂. No fan base does a coaching search quite like VT.
I'm starting to think that any announcement wouldn't come out at the beginning of the week.
Make an announcement Thursday and you can drive the CFB news cycle from Thursday night thru the weekend. Announce Monday and the pundits may move on to something else before the Saturday.
Yeah when the smoke really started late last week I was hopeful that meant we would be savvy and announce at the end of the week so that it drove attention and discussion leading right into Gameday having a whole segment about it. Hopefully that can be the case this week
That's Mrs MattBoard's territory. She handles most general cooking, BBQ, grilling, salad dressings, etc. while I cover mac and cheese, gravy, baking, confection and related fields.
Put everything but the vanilla in a sauce pan and warm over low heat, whisking until it simmers. Turn off the heat and add your vanilla. Let cool.
Good on ice cream, to make adult chocolate milk, etc. If you want more intense chocolate flavor, add a teaspoon of espresso powder. Add more sugar if you want it sweeter, but I feel like less is more here.
Edit: Cocoa powder is hydrophobic, so you really have to make sure to heat/whisk it to get it all mixed in. Be patient, it will get there eventually.
I'm in a similar boat, but as a Working Capital fund, we're still working, until the bucket is empty. Leadership has been rather vague about when that would happen, and furlough letters would be distributed, along with who is going to be excepted and who is not. All we know is it's close, definitely in this month. "Any day now" has been a constant refrain in the office.
Our entire "office" is excepted. All work no pay. I thought they might at least let us telework like we did through 2020 and most of 2021 to save costs, but the best cost savings our management could suggest was ridesharing. I try not to think about it or at least laugh at it. I know I'll get paid eventually, but it's just such a stupid situation and there are those who weren't fortunate enough to have some money set aside for things like this.
Yeah my wife and I are fortunate to have enough set aside to ride this out for a while but I do worry for some of my younger coworkers as this keeps extending
We ended up really lucky with the timing. Moved into a new house at the end of June, and finally closed on the old house in mid-October. Paid off a couple of loans with the equity to bring monthlies down, and the rest is ready to drop onto the new mortgage to recast, but we're holding off on that. So we're down to mostly debt-free with a good chuck of change on reserve. Don't want to draw it down past the point where we'd have to pay PMI, but we can, if this thing drags out.
I believe an act was codified into law at the end of the last shutdown to ensure that furloughed federal employees get back-pay. However, a recent memo from the White House has suggested that the backpay may not be automatic and that congress still needs to vote on it which signals to me that there could be a legal battle over whether or not (certain?) federal employees will actually get their backpay. Something to keep an eye on for anyone who works for a federal agency. I think (hope?) that federal employees who have not been paid during this shutdown will get their pay but it's very far from guaranteed.
I'm not saying you're wrong. There are lots of problems with our government that could use a lot of fixing. I'm just saying that there have been attempts to pay federal employees. Shutdowns are dumb. Our government is dumb. It probably gets close to the boundaries of CGs but I am of the opinion that we need major reforms across just about every aspect of our government. I think that the extremism we're seeing (both left and right) is a perfect illustration of just how broken our government is.
I am the one person excepted from my office and am tasked frequently to reach out to check on our furloughed personnel. Really drains my energy having people answer and tell me about all the fun things they are doing on "vacation" including one that took a two week trip to Italy. Meanwhile, I get to direct all our contractors across our seven primary missions. Fun times.
it's kind of sickening that federal employees are viewing this as a "vacation". My brother and his wife are both federal employees and they are stressing tf out over this. They definitely don't view it as a vacation and I'm sure they would be incensed to learn that some people do.
In years past when federal employees I know were furloughed, they were just going to the breweries multiple times a week and always texting me at noon like "hey want to grab a beer?" Lmao
I was one of the civilian employees that had to work without pay during the Covid shutdowns and never got my backpay. My wife was forced to close her office and so we paid employees while we were forced closed. We are almost financially recovered from that.
I don't know about vacation, but if I end up getting furloughed, I've got a massive "Honey Do List" to work on with the new house. I'm just glad my wife makes more than me in a stable job (utilities).
Those like your brother and SIL are the ones I worry about, with both incomes wiped out. I hope they're able to take advantage of loan deferrals and whatever other support there is out there.
My wife got laid off back in March when a bunch of the VA contracts were terminated and her old company had to lay off like 50% of their corporate workforce. Thankfully she was lucky in this job market to find something new in about 2.5 months in a much more stable field (legal). It's been a roller coaster of a year for us to say the least.
It's frustrating, but not surprising. I'm furloughed and I view it as anything but a vacation since those are paid.. especially when the mortgage, daycare, bills, groceries, car payments, etc still need to be paid. Like I said above my wife and I are fortunate that we can ride it out for a while but those things add up fast.
I am trying to be productive every day and do some things around the house with the time, but that's mostly to keep from going stir crazy. I would much rather be doing my actual job that I really enjoy doing. I really feel for the people who are commuting every day to a job that they're not getting paid for. Just an all around bad situation.
They really aren't but most that I work with do say "Vacation" with the quotes and heavy /S. Its just simpler to deflect from the reality. The mental health aspects of this are terrible and mine are trying to make the best of it.
For any suffering financially, if you have a TSP, it has low interest loan options that are then payroll deducted over the agreed upon duration. Thats not one that gets shared by many HR people.
I think we just naturally have PTSD caused by constant letdown. I'm choosing to believe he hasn't signed yet so he can continue to tamper. I hope I'm right.
My dad's friend's wife's hairdresser in Blacksburg cuts the hair of a current coach and their wife — and they're saying it's a done deal. So maybe we can all stop the collective handwringing and relax.
Agregating all the smoke, rumors, and self declared insiders it does sound like we have delivered on everything Franklin has asked for and put the offer in front of him on Monday. I feel like 48 hours is about the window he would have to make a decision before VT moves on. It does feel like the general tone is that this is going to happen so I have a feeling in my gut that says we here something today. If not then I think we can start talking about the next name on the list.
I personally hope it is Franklin because some of the demands he made are true it would force commitments to really bring us back to big boy football.
Buddy connected to the University told me this evening that Virginia Tech offered a best and final deal last night and it was verbally accepted with paperwork expected to be signed in the next couple days.
Also, two different posters on 247 are saying the same thing.
James Franklin with either be the new head coach at VT or he won't be. I can't give up my #sauces, but they seem to be pretty confident with this take.
Found this interesting little tidbit....maybe nothing, maybe something. VT has two corporate jets, a Cessna Citation Excel, tail #N51VT, and a larger Cessna Citation Sovereign, tail #N80FW. The Sovereign flew to Peachtree Dekalb airport in Atlanta several days ago, and ADSB doesn't have any info about a flight leaving Atlanta, so it may be there for some other reason such as scheduled maintenance. However, N51VT made an interesting flight Roanoke to Blacksburg, earlier this afternoon. There was no correlating flight from Blacksburg to Roanoke beforehand. This is the part that I find interesting. On approach to Blacksburg, the plane made a slow pass to the north of the airport, just south of Lane, circled around to land in the northwest direction on runway 31. Again, maybe nothing but couple it with what I just saw on twitter/X....
Why would he travel for a physical though? I got a job in Chattanooga and took a drug test in Virginia Beach. Pretty sure if drug-tests-R-us can manage an email a halfway decent doctor's office could.
I mean he may not even be in PA post firing or could travel north to NY/east to NJ/south to MD etc. Lots of options, especially if he doesn't want people to be on the scent of his next move
I think Devyn Ford... To me, that was the moment that everything started going downhill for Fuente.
I don't think VT2SEC was a done deal, and I remember the fanbase being pretty split on it at the time. In hindsight, it was insanely stupid to pass it up (if we even had the opportunity), but I don't think (m)any people in 2010 foresaw the SEC (or the B10) separating themselves completely from the rest of the sport.
lol what? This would be so far from a major letdown that it's not even funny. Franklin coming here would be great. Franklin not coming here would be fine. There are other coaches out there. Plenty of them. I'm sure VT can get a decent coach to come here. Maybe even someone better than Franklin. It won't be the end of the world if VT doesn't hire Franklin.
Not saying it would be the end of the world, just saying that, the way people (message boards, media members, etc) are talking about it, it's like it's almost a done deal. Like, sooo close to the finish line.
Said it the other day, but this is likely the most pivotal moment in VT Football history since Frank almost went to UNC in 2000. This could have massive ramifications for the future of the program, however it shakes out.
you could argue that hiring Pry instead of Elko was that moment for us. We'd be on a completely different trajectory now if we had hired Elko - even with him leaving for A&M we'd be in a much better spot than we find ourselves now
We'd be on a completely different trajectory now if we had hired Elko - even with him leaving for A&M we'd be in a much better spot than we find ourselves now
I'm not convinced of that. We could have been Duke, or we could have been Tennessee after Lane left them after one year. I don't think one year with Elko changes much.
I agree here. It seems Elko was extremely interested in this job, but for whatever reason Whit was not interested in taking the call. Even if we had hired Elko, I think it still would have been under the old Whit mentality with funding for the program. "Weights weigh the same"
However this Franklin decision shakes out, I think this has actively forced VT leadership to commit to far more resources for the program if they want to compete at a high level. I think if we get this deal with Franklin done, the details of the contract may shock the entire college football landscape. Donor interest would likely be sky high. Would send a huge signal that VT is for real.
So in short, Elko may have gotten us a year or two of better results, but it wouldn't have shaken the foundation of the program like this search and takeover of VT athletics has achieved, IMO.
I don't think Franklin is the only coach who could make VT successful
EXACTLY!. Its why not hiring him wouldn't be a huge letdown....unless...
I think VT has to nail this hire
...this doesn't happen. I agree that VT needs to nail this hire. I don't agree that Franklin is the only coach for VT to "nail this hire". But if we end up hiring Shannon Dawson then I think we'd be pickle-f*ed.
The general feeling, I sense, is that if we hire Franklin now we'll know we nailed the hire and feel good going into 2026. If we hire some up-and-comer G5 coach like Helton, Huff, Chesney, etc. we will probably be split on whether or not we nailed the hire but we won't really know for another year or so. If we hire anyone none of us has ever heard of before then we might know that we absolutely didn't nail the hire (though, in fairness, we likely wouldn't know for a year or so).
It's unlikely, but (similar to Fuente), if we hire Franklin and he doesn't work out then we'll feel like we nailed the hire only to find out in a few years that we absolutely didn't. That would be super sucky.
Having lived in AZ, I'd much rather deal with a Saguaro than those damn Cholla cactus with the detachable arms with barbed hooks. Stumbled home from the bars quite a few times and bumped into mine... not fun at all.
Dead on! The Cholla is the nastiest damn plant in the desert. Always have to warn visitors not to touch the fuzzy looking cactus. Always carry pliers when out on the trails
Maybe, if one of the later games gets us a better timeslot because the broadcaster wants to leverage the new face and new resources he'll have to tell a compelling story.
I probably need to apologize for derailing the Franklin discussion, but I do appreciate the TKP community and their willingness to discuss just about anything.
I agree - We can attract lots of good coaches with the resources we are willing to expend and the spending on the rest of the AD/football program will elevate the floor of whoever we hire.
I think the issue is getting the buyout right. If salary is enormous, we'll recover if it goes south. If we have a stupid buyout, that will burn us.
Regardless, I think the risk of not landing a good coach is greater than the risk of overpaying Franklin. We've had a decade of mediocrity across three staffs, while our conference is trending further into mediocrity... that signals 'distressed asset' to the coaching market. Need to turn that around asap.
I agree that we overpaid Pry. I have said it before South Carolina hiring Shane did it right. Intro contract, re-evaluate after 2 years, and again after another 2 years.
CC over on TSL just posted an article, Chaos is a Ladder, which has a lot of good stuff in it. I'm not going to copy/paste it all, because it's a subscription article, but I'll put a couple paragraphs here that have some information that we all should hear, bolding what IM(ns)HO is the biggest part. (Mods, delete or truncate if you feel I pasted too much from the article.)
Things have quieted down over the last couple of days, which is probably a good thing. My understanding is that Tech has made Franklin a really big offer that would probably surprise 75 percent of the fan base. I've heard it could possibly make him one of the 15 highest-paid coaches in college football as of the start of the 2025 season, perhaps even in the top 10. That ranking could change depending on how much Penn State, Florida, LSU and others decide to pay their new coaches this cycle, but you know what I'm getting at. Tech is preparing to make a huge financial commitment.
I've also heard that the NIL commitments the Hokies have received over the last month have been very impressive, to the point where it has actually surprised some candidates because they didn't know Virginia Tech was capable of raising that much money. My response when I heard that was, "See what happens when the Hokies actually try to raise money?"
If those things are true, then he's got one impressive offer from Virginia Tech. My personal opinion — and this part is just a guess — is that he didn't go into the process thinking that Tech could get anywhere near what he wanted. But once he realized it could, then things accelerated quickly.
It sounds like whatever we end up offering him, or the eventual coach, it won't be crippling the program.
I'm sure he's not the only agent we're talking to but Sexton likely represents several coaches so by impressing him you could impress several candidates by association
Problem is, I'd guess that the figures that impress Franklin end up biting us in the ass if he ends up saying no. Plan B, C etc, if a Sexton client, would probably be aware of what we'd commit for Franklin and get butthurt if (when) we don't throw similar resources at a less exciting candidate. If Sexton knows we have X dollars to afford Franklin, he can overinflate the ask for a backup option and play hardball.
My main takeaway from this is we've been willfully sucking at football for a long time. All we had to do was choose to spend the money necessary to win, but we chose to become a bottom feeder instead.
Heads need to roll in the athletic department for the malpractice committed over the past couple decades. Like, every single head. They all have to go.
Which is why I think it's a crime that Whit is still hanging around. Move on. It's painfully obvious he wasn't getting the most out of VT athletics and was instead just going through the same old motions.
Amazing what happens when you actually try to raise money and generate excitement by going after a high-profile candidate pool.
To me, starting to get the feeling Franklin's camp could be holding out for a bigger brand opening (FSU, maybe even Clemson). I think those are long shots to open this year, but I also wonder if he might just decide to do a year in TV and test his value in next year's market. There's not a ton of sense in holding out unless you're waiting on another opening, want more money (can't imagine it's that after what's been rumored we have put on the table), or just aren't convinced it's the right spot for you.
With the amount of resources we have stepped up and provided finally, I think we have likely gotten the attention of a lot of quality candidates. Even if Franklin doesn't accept, I think we will land with a really good coach - maybe someone we haven't even thought of yet.
I get wanting to do some behind the scenes recruiting and vetting for players and staff while you're still technically unemployed, but Franklin's camp has likely had several weeks to do so now since I'm sure VT has been talking with him and his agent for a while now. You're going to miss the boat on potentially a monumental recruiting weekend for our final home game against Miami if it drags out too much longer.
In short, if this keeps dragging out day by day, I think we don't hear anything until around Thanksgiving at the earliest, and it's most likely not going to be Franklin at that point.
He definitely isn't going to another P5 school that could pay him more and provide more NIL. Because after all, who doesn't like working harder for less pay? Trust me bro.
Actually, doing the hot ones challenge is quite fun. My son and I did it a couple of years ago during a holiday family get together, while the rest of the family watched, cheered and laughed. We even did the whole interview question bit. It was a blast, until it wasn't... You can make it through all the sauces, the last three are just liquid pain, but it's not that hard. Even when you slather the wings in each sauce. Yeah you sweat, your head tingles and you have mild hallucinations, but it's all good fun. What is not fun is literally the pain you can feel burning a hole in your stomach for the next two days.
My wife got me one of their season lineups a few years back. IMO, the only sauce that truly utterly sucks is The Bomb. Its only flavor is pain. There was only 1 after it in my batch, but even though I think it was supposed to be significantly hotter, it was far more enjoyable to eat.
Will echo rabidgobbler here, if anyone is a hot sauce fan, grab one of the lineups from heatonist. Its worth it.
The Bomb is intentionally made with a chili oil extract so it sticks around on your tongue for as long as possible. It's designed to get the reaction from guests that Hot Ones is known for.
The Bomb is more of an extract than a sauce, so it seems much hotter than its scoville rating.
As a watcher of many, many episodes, I've come to the conclusion that that is one hot sauce that I will never try. Have no interest. I've done the Last Dab: Apollo, and just recently purchased Last Dab: Thermageddon (haven't had a chance to try it yet), but I will never do The Bomb.
Did a 6/7 wing hot ones lineup during covid, even got the last one (Last Dab: Apollo) on video. I think I linked it in my AMA.
Totally agree on the bomb. Liquid pain and no flavor. Last dab is hot as hell but actually has flavor. Quite a few of the sauces are actually really good.
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 skippypbm, Little Bobby Tables, ltrepeter2000, and others: Upload images and GIFs to imgur, then link them. Otherwise they will not display on the site because whatever the fuck y.yarn.co is, it's running a human captcha check from Cloudflare. Use imgur or giphy. Thanks.
Imgur is annoying, because sometimes they save gifs as mp4 files, and when you right click for the direct link, you then have to manipulate the extension. But will do, sir.
Yarn.com seems to be a source for gifs and memes from movies and tv shows. At least, when I get an obscure reference from a movie and search it, more often than not, if I can find a result, it's from there.
Yeah, that is annoying about Imgur and good point it's complicated for others to figure out. I'd go with Giphy then. Every other image hosting service out there that I know of does some sort of hot linking protection though.
I would use giphy from home, but it's blocked at work. When I look for a gif, I always exclude it, because they're usually a good percentage of google results, and I can never end up using them. (Ex: "hot emma watson gif -giphy")
Is it just me or has everyone else started seeing a lot more cloudflare captchas on so many more websites. I feel like I am regularly seeing redirects to cloudflare before going back to the site I requested.
That's a shame cuz Yarn is like an infinite encyclopedia of every gif you could possibly ever imagine. If you get that working, we would be eternally grateful.
Come on Joe, think how rich you would be if you figured out how LLMs could illegally access more data. You'd be able to work on TKP while sitting on a stack of bennies
I should have started an office pool on which day we get a new coach. But unfortunately I'm an only employee. I guess I'd be guaranteed to win...and lose.
(Net Loss) = (Net Gain) = $0 for all possible outcomes.
Seems this would be an exercise in futility, but it could be hilarious as you progress from day to day.
TSL basically reporting on the podcast that Jimmy (and therefore Franklin) are basically trying to extort Tech, after we've upped the offer multiple times to meet their demands. They're talking as if the current offer is in the 8 figures.
I know TSL has been known to pass off other's reporting or rumors as their own insider info but this appears to be a huge confirmation
I've seen in the $11-12MM range annually, close to $100MM in total compensation and $12-14MM NIL budget have been put on the table. If they're not biting at that, at some point I don't think Franklin is serious about coming here. But I think a lot of others potentially would be.
The problem is Sexton represents nearly 3/4ths of all major college coaches.
I seriously think as CC on TSL has alluded to, if we floated these huge numbers out of nowhere and legitimately shocked agents and the industry on what VT is actually capable of given the right people making the shots. So I wonder if Sexton/Franklin are trying to set the market, saying holy crap VT of all places just offered this, trying to see if elite programs can go even higher.
And Sexton I've read kind of wants to play King somewhat and be the decider of who goes where. Corruption and greed at their finest.
Sexton is the only person betting these BetOnline lines as his side hustle. He leaks enough for a line to move then dumps money into an underdog. Quite the side hustle.
he's definitely cornered the entire market, not sure how it possibly get's shaken up at this point he's got so much leverage there's no real way for other agents to really be successful.
I think Franklin would be a good hire. I don't think he'll come here for a reasonable price. I DO NOT want VT to OVERPAY for him. I genuinely hope that we reach one of two outcomes: 1) We get Franklin at around 8-9 million MAX. 2) We hire Chesney for 6ish but have the intent on paying him what he's worth if he knocks it out of the park. If VT is seriously throwing around 8 digit salary figures for a HC that means we're willing to pay money for big boy football and that's a good thing. But we shouldn't blow our whole wad on Franklin, IMO.
Sooner or later there will be an announcement. If Sexton is playing the market and just driving the price up, I really hope we tell Franklin that it cost him the job at this point. No college football coach is worth 8 figures a year.
Franklin is in a win-win scenario right now. Scenario 1) he gets everything he wants from us.
Scenario 2) There's been a lot of speculation that he might be dragging this out to see if FSU opens up. If that's what he's waiting for and he's using us as leverage to force their hand but it doesn't end up opening because they can't afford Norvell's buyout, then he can always flex to just doing tv and satisfying his buyout condition by saying he made a serious effort to get a job with VT and it didn't work out and just wait for FSU (or somewhere else) to open next year.
I would not consider James Franklin a top 30-40 coach, even though he has elevated status because he was part of a strong program that placed top of the line assistants repeatedly with him defensively.
Les Miles was a garbage coach who won a natty. You have to match the situation to the demonstrated skill set. If they pay Franklin that money, they are not going to have the dollars to bring in a Tom Allen/Manny Diaz/Larry Johnson type of assistants.
That's the problem with not knowing the full terms of the deal he has been offered. From what I gathered, VT has met all of his asks. I would assume it's an enticing assistant coach pool as well, but we don't know. But I do agree if we pay top dollar for Franklin with no room for a good staff, that's going to be disappointing. The appeal with Franklin is recruiting first and foremost, and then you need to have a very strong staff around him.
We'll see how it all shakes out, but if VT has met every ask, I don't see what more he needs. He either wants to coach at VT or he doesn't. I'm starting to wonder if the market for him just wasn't what he or his agent anticipated, and we came in with a very unexpected top-dollar offer which no one else is able or willing to top at the moment. I also don't think FSU will open this year, nor do I think they could afford the buyouts for Norvell and his staff and a comparable deal for Franklin and his staff. I'm starting to wonder the longer this drags out if Franklin will just do TV for a year and wait it out for next year's cycle.
I am curious who else VT is considering/pursuing at this point. With the type of numbers floating around, we could land some very big fish if they're willing to bite.
I feel like that's really downplaying his record at Vandy. He's coached 30% of Vandy's bowl games and before he arrived the last time Vandy won 9 games was 1915. He did it back to back years there. He might have done a little bit less than more at Penn State, but I think he's shown he can also do more with less.
You could argue that Vandy was one of the 5 worst Power 5 programs before he got there. The success they are having recently is absolutely on the foundation he built.
I don't really care what it costs to have one of the top paid coaches as long as we have the money for staff and a team still.
Franklin with no one around him certainly isn't worth 10MM. If we've struck some gold vein and have enough to also allow him to hand pick some coordinators and NIL support...then whatever pay the man.
What helps with a guy like Franklin I think his is access to top coordinators and coaches that would work with him. I think that is one of the biggest values of the top coaches.
They've mismanaged it the whole way. I wouldn't expect anything other than overpaying and locking ourselves into a contract with a huge buyout for a coach that ends up not working
I don't know how anyone could possibly know if this is true or not.
I wouldn't expect anything other than overpaying and locking ourselves into a contract with a huge buyout for a coach that ends up not working
This would suck - and it's one reason I would consider paying Franklin more than 8-9 million to come here to be a low value proposition. I don't know for sure if there are better coaches out there but there are absolutely better value options out there. Possibly both. Chesney might end up being a better coach than Franklin. Question is, will we pay to find out?
We've officially reached ESPN talking-head status on TKP where we create a narrative, push it as fact, and then overreact to that narrative down the line.
My favorite is when they release some kind of player or team ranking by one of the talking heads in the morning with a scorching hot take in it, and by the end of the day it becomes a major talking point throughout the network on the "controversy" around that player or team.
It's exactly what we did with Pry so not exactly a narrative I have to create. Now TSL is talking about us spending 8 figures on a coach who basically only recruits, so yeah it's not a stretch at all
I have no problem with VT paying top dollar for a premium headcoach, coordinators, and staff.
But I'm really hoping that we don't arrive at a top dollar package with Franklin, and then hand it off for a less than premium coaching package.
I'm really hoping we come out of this with what we're all hoping to get.
If we pay what is for us blue chip money, I'd like to see a blue chip staff. Most importantly, I'd like to see coordinators and a head coach who can coach and recruit, and overall run a high quality organization.
Mostly we have to be in the top handful of ACC teams, beat UVa every year, win the games we're supposed to win, and maybe win some we're not.
I just can't imagine the money for coordinators isn't a part of the discussion.
I mean if Franklin gets every cent he can from us for himself but leaves no room for money for top-notch coordinators he's painting himself into a corner.
We have to have said if you want X amount for coordinators than this is the top salary we can afford.
But maybe we have donors ponying up if they know it will land Franklin and good coordinators.
Buddy sent me a screen shot from TX A&M message board that said
Can't reveal my source (an assistant coach at another school) stated the following:
A. He was asked if he would be willing to be OC at either Arkansas or Virginia Tech by Franklin. There is a bidding war going on for James Franklin between those two schools. If Arkansas doesn't get Franklin they most likely will hire the Memphis coach. Looks like Traylor has been approached as well.
If the Arkansas boosters are actually aligned we have no chance to win a bidding war (nor do I want to pay) We'd pretty much be betting on our contract structure and the allure of Blacksburg and an easier path to perceived success.
Yep, I guess I simplified it in my comment. If the decision is going to be solely on money (i.e. bidding war) it's gotta be Arkansas
If he is considering path to success, likelihood of not being run out of town for unreasonable expectations, and a whole host of other variables, I like our odds
If the decision is going to be solely on money (i.e. bidding war) it's gotta be Arkansas
And this is going to be the case at many P4 schools, most definitely at P2 schools. It is why Franklin is a good fit for us because the potential bidders from the P2 won't want him (in most cases, Arkansas is an outlier) because of their insane expectations (a la Penn State).
Even with the enhanced funding that has been discussed ad nauseum, we cannot keep up with the TV money in the P2. In the P4 we are better equipped, but only to a point. For VT, Franklin represents P2 value at a P4 price (2025 P4 prices which are stupidly higher than all previous years)
Comments
I'm not his biggest fan but I certainly think he can raise the floor tremendously. Truthfully, it's probably as good of a known quantity as we can get. This turned out to be a bad year for trying to find a coach in all the chaos.
I just hope we can go back to being relevant. In my trips to Lane this year the juice is still there. We just need a team that can compete at a high level.
I don't think there are any more "good years" for coaching searches. Given how the turnover has increased, the insane amounts of money, etc. I think that this is what a normal year looks like going forward.
Don't disagree. It just seems this year has more changes than normal but you're right it's likely par moving forward. Outside of the obvious financial benefits, being a coach or AD in today's college football world is just trying to navigate a moving shitstorm.
I hope this is true. Especially since it potentially means we hire soon.
We can all say whatever we want about the pros/cons of this hire but the reality is this would be a serious upgrade for us over Fuente and Pry and would help stabilize and legitimize a program that is reeling and trending hard negative. I hope this happens.
I'm desperate for it to happen. I'm not saying I wouldn't be happy with anyone else, but he would be a slam dunk. We're lucky Penn State was dumb enough to even make this a possibility.
and the late stages of the Beamer era
If he can't start the course correction then no one can until the entire AD Dept and most of the BOV is gutted.
Outside of the cash infusion announcement, VT Football is a shit show, dumpster fire, etc. If we land him, then IMO, Franklin has "seen things" outside of the cash that shows him VT is serious and he has the confidence in "Us" for him to be successful.
If VT lands Franklin, I think the P2 community will take serious note and train their left eye on VT over the next few years.
Hiring Franklin now is such a big dog move for VT when looking at our current situation. It has been said by a few on here that VT realistically shouldn't have a shot at Franklin. I tend to agree that it has a "pie in the sky" feel to it. Landing him over all other openings to better aligned programs...c'mon man!
AD and BoV need gutted anyways, even if Franklin fixes things.
Yes indeed. Just saying if it doesn't happen and the Old Guard mostly remains then when/if Franklin fails then all arrows point to the AD and BOV. Then it's ready, aim, release at that point.
800% agree. Is that enough?
Getting close my man...getting close. Almost there!!!!
VT hiring Franklin would send the same message to the P2 that UNC sent w/ the Belichick hire. We're serious about big boy football. But hopefully with better results and definitely with less icky and dramatic relationship baggage.
VT hiring Franklin is the same shot across the landscape that VT hiring Buzz was. And regardless of how Buzz at VT ended, you can't say he didn't immediately and significantly raise our profile while he was here. And that is exactly what we need right now
This. And this could just be me trying to find the silver lining, but it may be possible that even if Franklin has no intention of coming to VT, but the rumors keep swirling for a bit, it may help with the perception that we're serious and help us land a better candidate than we would have if we weren't being talked about at all.
I agree with this take. Buzz took over a distressed asset and turned it around in 3 years. The similarities between James Johnson and Brent Pry are there as well.
Agree. I just hope the analogy ends if/when there is a separation of Franklin from VT. Until Buzz started to stick his foot out the door, VT was on a rising path in MBB. But once it was apparent that Buzz was only looking out for himself, I feel like the VT administration thought the momentum would carry itself, that things would just fall into place for MBB to continue to see success. But it has been a roller coaster ride with Young ever since. I attribute a decent amount of the blame on Young, himself, due to his unique style of recruiting and coaching. But a lot of the blame is on the administration for not being anywhere aggressive enough if its support to make sure the program did not slip back into its old, mediocre ways. But here we are.
I don't want there to be a meteoric rise (relatively speaking) in the football program, thanks to hiring Franklin (or someone like him), then he leaves for probably big dog program reasons, and we fail to remember to keep the pedal floored to get the best or do the best we possibly can. It's not a concept of achieving a certain orbit and staying there forever. Your level of orbit is constantly decaying unless you keep giving it more boost, all the time.
This is OT but have you seen all of the A&M fans up in arms because of Buzz apparently admitting to telling a recruit he was leaving (or thinking of leaving, I haven't watched the clip)? It's so funny because they're complaining about him doing that and stealing their recruits with a foot out of the door and tech fans have been like ..yeah, he does that.
Buzz at VT ended with our best ever Tournament finish in the modern era. I know you're referencing the talent drain that happened with his departure, but you can't ignore the last on the court results.
You can also add the fact that we always knew he was a rental and was not going stay long term, but he did bring the program back from the abyss.
God I hope not. I think just about everyone knew that this was an absolutely terrible idea from the get-go. I don't think anyone thought UNC/BB would be this bad, but no one outside of UNC really expected them to make a bowl game. Everyone knew this was a joke, even without the whacky GF/Fiance stuff.
Meh. My comparison was less about the likelihood of success and more about the message UNC was trying to send. Which, again, was we have money to spend on football and we'll take big swings.
But they don't... the $14m they were allegedly spending on "NIL" included scholarships and was only like $4m in collective money.
Seeing how he was let go at Penn State...unrealistic expectations.....
Why would he want to jump into another job with the same if not worse expectations? And why would a school with those expectations hire him if they see he "can't win the big game"?
I'm speaking primarily of LSU and UF, potentially FSU as well. I mean at LSU if he doesn't win a natty in the first 4 years they'll want him out.
At tech he could get us to 8-10 win seasons again and ACCCG appearances and we would be lovin' it. He could worry about the big games then or get hired off then to another place but we'd be way better situation than we are now.
Not sure why I posted in another thread to maybe wait on an announcement....
Because most CFB coaches are arrogant enough that they think they can meet if not surpass expectations?
You have to understand that these guys are just built different than you and I and think different than you and I. They are supremely competitive and want to win at the highest level.
PSU has unrealistic expectations. FSU, UF, and LSU don't. PSU hasn't won a national championship since 1986.
LSU should probably fire coaches if they haven't won one in the first four years, because the three coaches preceding Brian Kelly did so. LSU is arguably the best job in the country with the most in-state talent who all want to go to the state school. Their most recent one was only 6 years ago.
Florida has won 3 natty's since PSU won their last one, and 2 since 2000
FSU has also won 3 natty's since PSU won their last one, one of those since 2010.
Florida is the most talent rich state in the country. Unlike Louisiana, you have to fight 4 major conference teams for those recruits, but the path to the trophy is clear.
It won't be if Franklin will pick based on expectations, it'll be those 3 schools passing on Franklin because they believe he has a ceiling that is lower than their expectations to compete for national championships.
OR, he is using VT for more leverage somewhere else.
I just don't have a good feeling about Franklin. They need someone who can do more with less, even with the influx of cash. The money isn't sustainable until they modernize the fundraising mechanisms (you know, that little thing Whit committed to do when he was hired and a decade plus later there is no difference.)
It seems like it's so close, which means it will fall through our fingers. We need Auburn, Wiscy. NCSU, and a few others to keep winning to retain their coaches. I have a feeling a lot more jobs are going to come open in the next six weeks. Getting him to sign the contract soon would mean we are finally serious.
The contract needs to have a big, big buyout period that stipulates if Franklin leaves VT before February of 2026, he owes us a zillion dollars.
Otherwise, he could accept our offer now, ditch us in December, and not be behind in his next job.
also known as The Manny Diaz
If the offer is out, VT is smart to get it out there now. Not sure it makes sense for Franklin to accept now or he has a different job/school in mind, but make him so no and move on or he accepts and all aboard the hype train!
Sure, he accepts now and makes 3-4 million to coach our last 3 games then accepts the offer from Ole Miss during the off season after Lane is hired away.
You know, I seriously thought of something like this too. And it would not be bad if the contract is structured right. If the people who steal Franklin from us have to pay a big buyout to use, we then have a good war chest for the future just from a few months renting Franklin. Of course, VT has to write the contract properly - what are the odds of that - and Franklin has to accept it.
As long as the buyout at least covers our rent for the year and maybe next years salary, I would be good with it.
He is my top pick. Over everyone else, excepting the guy at Tulane, who I think we have no chance at. What I don't want to have happen is what happened 4 years ago where we are one of the last schools looking and settle for someone with a connection to the old beamer days. I do not want Shane. I love Shane, grew up with the guy, know him well. I cannot imagine the pressure and stress that would come from that hire. Only risk IMO. Also would really love the big balls move if we do hire Franklin, and he immediately hires Pry as his DC. That would be awesome if incredibly unrealistic.
I don't know Shane, don't have any connection. While there is a path for Shane to have huge, long-term success at VT, the reality is there are far many more ways for him to fail. I'm sure he loves VT, and we love him for his contributions, but man I can't imagine the nauseous feeling that would be accompanied by fans screaming for his dismissal if things didn't work out perfectly. Sometimes it is better to wonder, "what could have been."
I kinda feel this way about Bud. Great DC for us, no question. I'm not sure he would have made a good HC and it would have been very painful if he got the HC job and then failed
My opinion of Bud has always been that of your company's top engineer who can be pulled into deal meetings to explain the technical concerns/concepts, persuade the client that it will work as intended, etc. But then he leaves and the CEO type takes over with the glad-handing, negotiations, and seals the deal. I never have seen Bud as one of those CEO guys. Very similar, in fact, to Kliff Kingsbury. Seemed like a terrible HC from what I saw on Hard Knocks for Arizona, but he has been doing an incredible job at Washington as OC, his bread & butter.
I'm convinced that Bud would have crashed and burned as HC due to his...lifestyle (to put it kindly). Beamer protected him over the years, Bud stayed loyal to Beamer in return (outside of chasing the Clemson HC job when it went to Dabo instead). I don't think he would have done well without the Beamer pseudo-guard rails.
Could you imagine if Bud was the HC in 2018 and that was the way he left college football?
I know some people wanted the fairytale ending of him replacing Beamer but he was never head coaching material to begin with.
I worry that this is Jimmy Sexton pushing the narrative to get him a better offer elsewhere.
Pry crawled to Blacksburg so Franklin could walk here.
I like this pick, but I'd have much preferred to just hear the announcement that it's a done deal, and that everyone is committed.
VT doesn't have as good a record as I'd like with "almost" deals.
I think this is why it has been radio silence from Tech and any applicant. Everything here is based off of rumor and hearsay.
Wonder if we could hire Pry back as DC and get back some of that buyout money, assuming Franklin would want him and players would still be willing to play for him. Just because he wasn't a good HC doesn't mean he wouldn't be a good coordinator again. Also assuming Pry can swallow his pride. With all that said, probably too much to overcome to actually happen.
HARD NO. too awkward, too much baggage. Let Pry get a DC job somewhere else and enjoy his buyout
The now I think about it, I think the optics of hiring him back under Franklin would show there is no bad blood and we don't hold grudges. That could pay off down the line with future searches, especially in this climate
So he gets fired and replaced, then his replacement offers him a job but the guy who fired him is still there and a huge swath of the fanbase has been saying, "I'm so glad he's gone", "that guy sucked", "anyone but him".
I feel like that might be a bridge too far.
I think the general feel is that we like Pry, he just wasn't a good head coach.
The people I speak to are disappointed that he didn't work out because personally we like the guy.
I've told this story before, but the spring before his first season I took my daughter and some of her friends to watch a softball game at VT. After the game we went to PK's, and Pry was there talking to people as if he were just another fan. We spoke for a bit and he took a picture with the kids. I shook his hand and wished him good luck on the season. He patted me on the shoulder and thanked us for supporting VT.
You don't get that with many D1 coaches.
I had similar experiences with Pry. Ran into him a number of times out and about in town. He was always gracious with his time. Never seemed in a hurry and would willingly chat, take pics, or even offer a hand if needed. He got the community in a real way. It is super unfortunate that the coaching part didn't work out because it will be hard to do better from a man of the people perspective. Always seemed like a genuinely nice guy.
"never seemed in a hurry..."
That's why practice was starting 45 minutes late or whatever!
The comment I heard was something to the effect of "pry liked the title of head coach more the job of head coach"
That's an absolutely enormous assumption.
Yes, indeed
I think before the season it could've been a possibility for Pry to step down to DC and Franklin (if he had been available) to step in as HC. Now, after what happened in the first couple games, Pry can't be a coach at VT until all the current players are gone. There's a non-zero chance if Franklin gets hired that Pry returns to Blacksburg, a place and a school he genuinely loves, to be on Franklin's staff. But that's 5 years down the road.
Offsetting your own offset. That's something I dont think I have ever seen.
Could happen. If Franklin is the HC, Im sure he would have 100% control on coaching staff. If he wanted Pry as DC and Pry wanted the job, then it happens.
I guess it would save $800K to $1.5M a year. And maybe allows for a little bit more cash for an OC.
Wonder if Anthony Poindexter would be interested in the DC position. Would bring instant recruiting from the area and he has been trying to climb that ladder.
He got passed over multiple times at PSU.
Have to imagine there's a reason.
I would surprised significantly to see him in Blacksburg.
Pry is an elite DC. At least, he has been. I would imagine he is also damn good at the dinner table with mama. Not having the pressure of being HC....if he were willing to do something totally out of character for most people, be humble, I could see it working. It would be weird at first, but so is the offseason. Especially this offseason.
Penn State Defense rankings from sports reference:
2010 49
2011 5
2012 16
2013 60
2014 7
2015 27
2016 47
2017 7
2018 23
2019 8
2020 55
2021 7
2022 10
2023 3
2024 8
Brent Pry coached their defense from 2016 to 2021. Penn State was already pretty good at defense before he arrived and have been even better since he left. I'm not sure how much of his defensive success was him vs Penn State. It seems like they've just recruited really well and have been kind of plug-and-play from a DC standpoint. I'm not sure he can really be called an ELITE DC. Serviceable to good, for sure. But elite? I'm not sold.
One might even refer to him as Brent Pryrite
also, looking at how the defense rankings pin-balled up and down throughout the 2010s makes you wonder if their scheduling impacted that. The B1G, outside of OSU and maybe Michigan, isn't known for offenses. Were some of those defense rankings inflated simply by who they played in those years (or, perhaps more accurately, who they didn't play?)?
I don't have the time to go and look at their schedule for those years but there's almost a pattern there that would suggest the years they had stellar defense rankings might have coincided with years they didn't have to play some of the tougher teams in the B1G. Just some food for thought.
personally, i would prefer to keep siefkes. i would love to see what he could do with some actual ACC-caliber players
Buzz on the other sites is that the offer is out, Sexton is playing his usual hardball, and there's an ultimatum of a decision by EOD Monday.
We better be working on Plans B-G if/when this falls through, don't wanna be caught flat-footed like we were with the last search
If the reports are true that we have offered and have a Monday deadline, then that is absolutely the VT team working on plans B-G.
I mean I would think that is a normal thing as well especially with the climate and time of year we are in. Even if it was after the year you can only wait on a guy for so long.
It doesn't seem out of the ordinary like we are trying to play hardball it's just "Hey if it's gonna be a no we want to know now so we aren't stuck in late January with our other options already scarfed up b/c you took your sweet time."
A deadline that conveniently allows time for Auburn or Kentucky to enter the pool as well..
I'm looking forward to the inevitable reporting about how tech made a serious run at him and were very aggressive and demonstrated their commitment but they just couldn't reach an agreement.
Either those teams are already talking to Franklin, in which case, the timing of the deadline isn't that important, or those teams will have to fire a coach, make their pitch to Franklin, and get an offer on the table that beats Tech's offer, all before Monday at EOD.
But like you, I am also anticipating the same reporting.
I feel like the last time there were rumors of something coming to fruition, and then it actually came to fruition was ... maybe the Devon Hunter commitment? That one didn't exactly workout the way we all thought it would.
Dax
Auburn is probably convincing themselves they can do better than Franklin. Kentucky is intriguing but falls into the same issue that Arkansas has in that Franklin can't win there. Too many great teams in the SEC to ever have a chance to legitimately rebuild his image.
Is Stoops actually going anywhere? Seems unlikely, although I think a number of programs, including us, would be smart to hire him. Rumor has always been he's waiting for Iowa.
Franklin won at Vanderbilt....have to imagine he would find a way to make Kentucky respectable. Arkansas I agree with you on. Razorbacks just haven't gotten behind their program much in last 20 years.
If the offer is on the table we need to try to get him to sign today and get him on College GameDay with a VT polo singing our praises tomorrow morning.
That was one thing that always stood out to me with the Buzz to VT hire. He was immediately putting the VT brand back into CBB by speaking on the March Madness set the day after the hiring.
Have him sing on the Gameday set, too. "Yeah my 'crooters are comin'.....to your ci-tay! If you want a little Gobble in your ching-chang, come along!"
Making CFB coaching carousel predictions is generally a fool's game. However, I feel 100% confident in predicting that Brent Pry would not be a part of Franklin's staff here if we land him
I generally don't like Franklin, but I can't deny that getting a HC that's done time at a big dog program as a head whistle would be a game changer.
Especially when he wasn't fired b/c of the decline of the team. As Saban stated on Gameday, they were ranked pre-season number 2 bc of the conditions that Franklin had created at the program.
Agree...I don't like him due to his personality but, that being said, he's not run Programs mired in scandal or obvious malfeasance.
I think he is probably the hire that has the highest floor of those that we know to be available.
Now if he and Sexton are using VT as a bargaining chip (which I do think is still a significant possibility), then he will be hated in Blacksburg to an all new level.
EVERY agent uses every open job as a bargaining chip until their client signs. It's not personal.
Right. When I say I don't like Franklin I mean that in my group of coaches I don't like, there's Franklin, 10 foot of garbage, then Brian Kelly, Art Briles, High Freeze, etc. at the bottom of the barrel.
In modern day football, head coaches aren't just guys who can coach Xs and Os. You have to run an operation, especially at the bigger programs. Franklin has that experience and if he comes to VT I'll be happy, even though he's not a guy I'd like to have a beer with.
100% this.
My priority is to have the program modernized and the floor raised. So, I don't mind he's not the nicest guy in the world because that may be what it takes to get the job done. Mean and no scandals I can take if the job gets done.
Hate it, and shows we're not thinking the hire through 100%. I am very pessimistic about our ability to save the football program if he's on our top list of options right now.
I hate to say it but if we hire James Franklin I will take a serious break from watching and supporting Virginia Tech football. I am thoroughly convinced he will be a failure and it will be a waste of 4-6 years. His style of running a program is outdated and he brings nothing to the table for competing in the new era. He is however a good salesman, so I could see him saying the right things and winning over the right people to get the job. I hated the Pry hire at the time and convinced myself to have false hope for the past couple years, I will not do that again.
Also I'll be real, personality is playing a huge role here. I think the guy is an asshole, a fake tough guy, and a complete charlatan. He was selling snake oil to these recruits at Penn State and they were buying it. When you sign that many talented players, you're going to be pretty good. But take a look at his record, it isn't even really that good, given the talent they had. People are also giving him a pass for the Covid year and year after, where they greatly underachieved given the roster.
I also remember not thinking he was a very good coach at Vanderbilt, and numbers seem to back up that he was mostly a schedule merchant there (still impressive to win at Vanderbilt, but those teams were not as good as their records would suggest)
At Vanderbilt in 2012 he went 9-4 and 5-3 in SEC play and was ranked 23rd with six other ranked SEC teams that season all higher than 14th. 2013 they were 9-4 again and saw them beat Georgia, Florida and Tennessee, again finishing ranked, this time at 24th.
Prior to Franklin taking over Vanderbilt, they had TWO seasons with a winning record in FORTY years. 2008 they won seven games and 1982 they won eight games. Even his 2011 6-7 record in his first year at Vandy was more wins than any of those other 38 seasons with a losing record. The last time before Franklin they won nine games in a season was 1915.
Did he have the toughest SEC schedule those two years? No
Did he overhaul a completely dysfunctional program by Year 2? Absolutely.
After he left for Penn State, how many times did Vandy win 9 games in a season? ZERO. This season under Lea is likely to be the first time since 2013 they won 9 games again.
As for the recruiting classes at PSU under Franklin, they were good but not great. Top 10 twice in 12 years but most hovered between 14 and 20. He finished ranked in the Top 10 five times in twelve years and two other years finished 13 and 17. By that look, he surpassed his recruiting classes in terms of overall results.
Here are recruiting classes and final rankings:
2014 : 24th
2015: 14th
2016: 20th. : 7th
2017: 15th. : 8th
2018: 6th. : 17th
2019: 14th. : 9th
2020: 17th. : NR
2021: 20th. : NR
2022: 8th. : 7th
2023: 15th. : 13th
2024: 14th. : 5th
2025: 19th.
Preach.
I'm pretty confused by the original comment and thought i may have been taking crazy pills. Thanks for providing some eye opening stats.
How could his style of running a program be considered outdated when he was literally in the semi's last year?
Football fans are not exactly rational. See: Penn State firing a semi-final coach
I'm gonna be honest I take 0 stock in him being in the semis last year looking at Penn State's path of known world beaters Boise State and SMU
They were a field goal at the buzzer away from playing in the National Championship Game
Kinda crazy when you consider that Penn State never made the 4 team playoff or the BCS National championship game. There's been an official national championship game since 1998 and Penn State never made it nor the 4 team playoff which should have been significantly easier to make. Last year was literally the closest they've gotten to a national championship game since national championship games came into existence and they fired the guy like 6 games later
He did it by beating the teams they should have beaten. If tech could do that we'd be drowning in wins and thrilled with the state of things
As usual Rayo, you've decided to completely ignore evidence and take a wildly inane position. Quit VT football if we hire Franklin (still unlikely IMO). You'll quickly realize your mistake.
It's funny you say that, I can't remember us ever having a major disagreement but I have found that I disagree with a vast majority of your posts on here. Which to each their own. Our brains work differently and that's fine.
I will counter and say that I'm not ignoring evidence. My evidence is conceptual and attempting to predict, what could go wrong with the potential hire and what attributes are needed to succeed. And getting beyond record what is necessary to win as a head coach at Virginia Tech. (*None of us have the time to put together a complete analysis of the data, and a lot of what's needed for the job is difficult to quantify so data driven evidence is not applicable here for the most part.) Most of what I've talked about has been acknowledged by media and people who are well regarded by the industry. Godfrey has echoed many of the criticisms of James Franklin and his record at Penn State that I've brought up, which I was glad to hear.
Now could Franklin come in and say "wow we're in no position to compete right now and resource wise we don't have what we need to flip it in a couple years, so I'm going to use my industry connections to hire elite undervalued coaches to develop our guys and run a scheme that allows us to do the most with the players at our disposal". THAT could work, definitely! But that is totally different from saying we're going to do Penn State at Virginia Tech. And it's also very different from the current value prop on Franklin, which is recruiting and wins at previous stops (with the aforementioned recruits).
To be fair I'm not saying he will fail miserably here, but I do think it's ultimately a waste of time because he doesn't have what we need to win here. We may get a few 7-5 seasons (which we will pay for at top dollar). But I don't see him winning more than 8-9 games here, and that being well above the mean for his time here (that being around 6-7 wins).
As far as quitting VT football, yeah that would be difficult. I've known the whole roster etc year to year since I was a kid. But if it's doomed to fail and a waste of time whats the point?
I wanted to come and apologize for my comment, it was too harsh. I was drunkish and stressed at 4 AM and still had an unknown time to go with my all-nighter (ended up being about an hour and a half).
I had the same thought. I feel like I disagree with you and VTJ12 the most during the season. I'm usually on the same page with bar1990. What's been interesting in this coaching search is that I'm in step with VTJ12, not just for our search but for the general landscape. We both want Mullen or Franklin. And I don't agree with bar1990 who is high on Huff and thinks Fran Brown is attractive for PSU.
I have criticisms of Franklin too, but I think his level of success is hard to come by. He doesn't need elite talent and funding to be competitive, he didn't have either at Vandy. I think Franklin at VT would be somewhere between his regimes at PSU and Vandy. But those are still 9 win seasons, something we haven't accomplished regularly since 2016-17? Unless your definition of regularly is more than two years, so since 2011.
Don't quit though. I'd rather have you on this board than not, even if we annoy each other.
Bar1990 catchin' strays like
Half stray half compliment
I laughed
I appreciate it, likewise 🤝
I just want to not suck again. We'll see which point of view turns out to be right
I'd point out that Vanderbilt is STILL much improved as a program, so that's probably a bad hill to die on.
Franklin seems to have righted the ship there.
I dont think he gets enough credit for what's happening today at Vandy. He showed everyone that you could win there. They took a step back because they had no clue what to do after he left because they'd never been in that position. They learned, hire a guy, who learned he need help and then hired a football guy in Jerry kill. They figured it out, but I doubt they do that with out Franklin showing donors and three athletic department that it could be done.
This is my point exactly. But you worded it much better.
Let's get them both.
This football program needs an asshole right now. Its not 2002 anymore and im not sure enough people in the administration realize that.
And bro, Franklin has career .688 winning percentage. Thats Frank Beamer territory and he has a bronze statue in front of the stadium that's on the street named after him.
Could he flame out? Yeah he could but a total flame out is unlikely. Our record the past decade is his flaming out record.
The only coach they could hire that would make me quit VT football would be Brian Kelly.
I'd be right there with you. I'd hate it, not having VT football to look forward to watching on the weekend (or not watch, if it's CW), but I'd hate Brian Kelly having the reins of the program even more.
He fucking killed a kid. He should be nowhere near coaching football.
I think if they hired Brian Kelly, Tech fans would do what Vol fans did when Schiano's name came up during their coaching search.
Tech fans would do what Vol fans did when Schiano's name came up during their coaching search.
Which is???
Half a bottle of bourbon deep FlyGuy imagines something not PG with a traffic cone.
Greg Schiano was all but hired for Tennessee and fans rioted online and pulled up all the dirt (Penn State ties) on him and forced the UT AD to rescind the offer.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/sec/2017/11/27/tennessee-sch...
Heck, Schiano had signed the contract. Tennessee had to argue the Contract wasn't valid because their wrong person had signed it.
Insert the most wildly subjective post I've ever read. I am not sure there is a single data point or metric that exists to support this claim.
Agreed, it's like a DC post to the tenth power...
I miss DC. He had some hot takes, but it was different. You could feel his frustration, and he was right more often than he was wrong. A bit brash, but 90% of his posts were well reasoned, though inflammatory and argumentative.
"well reasoned" is laughable. Don't let the abrasiveness distract you from the fact that homey was a talking logical fallacy
Guy thought to himself "what if red mist was a constant state of being" and just ran with it
Not sure why you feel the need to defend the decision at every turn. You all did your jobs and dude's gone. Let it go.
Where have i defended anything, let alone "at every turn" lol
Joe's decision entirely, go kick rocks with any other narrative
Anytime someone brings him up, you make a point to lay into him like it's your job to remind us all just how abrasive he was. And to be clear, I'm not defending anyone questioning if he should really be gone. I feel like what happened happened, the horse is dead, and we all should let him lay. My opinion is that any of it is noise at this point, and I don't feel that you, as a moderator especially, should be adding to it. Never said it was your call. I said you all did your jobs. I wasn't sure if it was a unilateral decision by Joe or if he asked for all of the moderators' input.
I thought maybe i forgot some comments i made or something so i went back and looked at my own post history and this .... Just isnt true?????????????
I have made exactly 3 comments about DC. one was "oh shoot" when hokietopher brought it up in the Hatin' On, the second was on LBT's "poll" thread which doesn't even say really anything about DC himself or his commenting style, the third was here.
Invite you to pull receipts if you think otherwise but geeze
Clearly the speculation and uncertainty around the coaching search and the overall stress of the season is making us...
what's Terry Bowden up to?
We can get him, Skip Holtz and Shane to form the all-dynasty coaching team
After getting fired from U-LM in 2024, he has been at the Delhi Charter School (LA) as an assistant coach.
thank you for your service and also all of these names I'm throwing out over the last months are rhetorical silliness
I know but gives me something to distract from having to work without a paycheck.
What's Tommy Tuberville up to these day/SSSSSSSS
Causing havoc amongst the military leadership with dumbassery. Also negatively effecting VA benefits. Another reason to hate Alabama. They keep electing him.
I also miss DC. I hope that he can be reconsidered.
Same.
I obviously feel the same.
If he can't get the type of linemen he got at Penn State he won't do as well here as he did there, that's fact not subjective.
The power ratings of the teams he beat in the Big 10 aren't significantly different than the middle of the ACC, fact. So I don't buy the step down in competition argument.
I guess you can find subjectivity if that's what you want to see, but that's the gist of the argument. I would love to see some data refuting these concerns, but so far I've just gotten "no you're wrong"
I will concede there is a chance that it all plays out like this. Franklin isn't number 1 on my board either.
That said, his resume still kind of demands that we have to shoot our best shot for him. It's the best of any candidate out there by far, and he really shouldn't be looking for a job to begin with.
As said above, the only hire we could make that would get me to quit altogether would be Brian Kelly Killed a Kid.
"His style of program" you mean the one that had Penn St in the semifinals last year? Or the one that put Vandy football on the map?
I do not understand the dislike of Franklin. He's not a jerk like Kelly, not a blow hard like Kiffin, and not a snake oil salesman ala Dabo. He's confident and his teams win. Penn St is about to find out the hard way that the grass isn't greener.
Question for you. Do you think Franklin is pulling linemen even close to what he's getting at Penn State to us? If the answer is no, forget about the semifinals. That is entirely immaterial to what he can or will do here
(If the answer is yes, my next question is where are we getting that money?)
The semifinals is not what we aspire to (at least not right now.). 9 win seasons and a shot at the ACC championship is what we aspire to right now.
Who's the candidate we should be targeting? Sell me on them.
I think we have a few good options and Franklin checks the most boxes, but he isn't the only one. Who are you hoping for?
He won at Vanderbilt before anyone ever had. He is a good to great coach. What else is there to say?
Dabo isn't a snake oil salesman. He's a megachurch preacher. A snake oil salesman talks a big game, sells you a bill of goods, then you don't get developed and the team loses. I haven't pushed back on Pry being a snake oil salesman, even though I think he was genuinely selling VT, because he lost a lot of games.
Dabo the megachurch preacher brings everyone into to a cult-like atmosphere, where they sing kumbaya, hold hands, and then make a lot of money (in this case by winning a lot of games).
This is the kind of comment that gets screen captured and shared around to other sites and fan bases to ruthlessly mock VT fans for being hilariously out of touch to or own place in college football right now.
James Franklin is a guy we should be thanking whatever football gods you pray to that he's even interested in us
To be fair this type of bad message board post happens to every fan base. It's why Message Board Geniuses exists and isn't called VT Message Board Geniuses.
It is all part of our strategy to snag Franklin. If we hype him up too much someone else will swoop in and steal him. But if we trash him no one will want him and we can get him. /s
This is an overly dramatic take IMO.
Do I think Franklin should be at the top of our list? No. I believe there are better options out there. But he's the smart/safe hire for this administration. Whit needs to nail this hire to save his job - he's not going to take a risk on a younger G5 guy even though I think that's probably the route with the most potential for success. Franklin represents a safe, tried-and-true hire with historically good recruiting chops (something we've been missing since Beamer's prime) and a pretty solid track record of moderate-to-good results. He'll absolutely raise the floor which is what Whit desperately needs. The fans all want a home-run guy who will come in and turn VT into some juggernaut in the ACC putting us in position to be an attractive addition to one of the P2 leagues when the ACC crumbles in 2030. That proposition comes with risk, however. That guy exists out there but we don't know who he is (is it Helton, Huff, Chesney, Sumrall, Chadwell...?? We just don't know. Good chance one or two of those guys blows up and the others don't. That's the game.). 4 years ago we had to pick between Brent Pry and Mike Elko. That was the risk we took and it didn't pay off for us. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Could Bob Chesney absolutely kill it and be the next Curt Cignetti? Yes. Also, he could completely flop like Justin Fuente. You just don't know - but I think guys like Chesney and Helton are worth the risk. But I'm also not the one who has hired 2 consecutive failed football coaches and desperately need to nail this third. I'm not the one who 'can't afford to get this wrong'. If Whit was fired with Pry and a new AD got the chance to hire our next coach I think it's more likely they'd go the risk-reward route and hire someone like Chesney. Whit can't afford that risk though. He needs the safe bet. Franklin represents that. It's no surprise to me that VT is rumored to be pursuing Franklin pretty strongly. I don't agree with it, but I get it. And if we end up hiring him I'll be fine with it. At the very least, I don't think we'll get any worse with him. But it's not going to be an exciting brand of football. We're not going to be hiring the next Mike Elko. But, also, we won't be getting the next Brent Pryrite either...so...pick your poison, I guess.
Everyone is also screaming, "Why didn't we hire Cignetti?? We let him get out right from underneath us!" Hindsight is 20/20. The only big program that took a shot on him was Indiana. No one knew how great he was going to turn out. They took a long-shot on a lottery ticket and it paid off for them. Indiana also had really nothing to lose and no real appreciable football history in the modern era, so if it didn't work out, nothing would have really changed.
Absolutely cannot take that risk right now at VT. Another dud/G5 type coach who cannot translate to this level and the program is absolutely finished. A guy with the resume and experience of Franklin you have to absolutely make a moonshot for if he's interested and available. Going to be expensive, but the return you get if it pays off will repay us tenfold many times over. And there's a ton less risk with a known quantity like him. Franklin will generate buzz and raise the program profile immediately.
To be fair, the Pry hire was far more of a gamble than Cignetti. Pry has done nothing in his career at that point that showed he was ready, but he shook Beamer's hand, and there's a certain code amongst guys who shook Beamer's hand.
I also think we had struck out on a few options already (Napier, maybe Campbell, maybe Clawson), said no to Elko, so Pry was like a Plan F at that point. The Beamer connections helped to sell it to the fan base and those in the inner circle around the program for sure.
Let's be honest, the big selling points about Pry were:
1) Connection to Franklin/the PSU program which has been tremendously successful and is eating our lunch in recruiting
2) Connection to Beamer/Bud and VT
Now we have the opportunity to actually hire the architect behind PSU in Franklin, and some people are weirdly against that?
that's just it though. There's a chance this doesn't work out or pay off. The odds of Franklin taking VT to the promised land are not appreciably any better than the odds of (Helton, Chesney, etc.) taking us just as far. Where Franklin is the safe hire is that the odds of Franklin crashing and burning are theoretically lower than the odds of Helton/Chesney/etc. crashing and burning.
Franklin figures to be much more expensive than the younger G5 guys. So what would we be paying for? We'd essentially be paying for better odds at a higher floor. There's a chance Franklin doesn't work out and it doesn't pay off. We could pay him huge sums of money to basically keep us right where we are. I agree that Whit can't risk taking a flier on a relative unknown. It makes a lot of sense that he's going hard after a known quantity because this surely will be his last chance to hire a football coach for VT. The likeliest scenario is that Franklin will immediately get us to 8+ wins and keep us in the 8-10 win range most years. But there's also a risk that we'll pay him a ton of money to only win 6. That's Whit, though. I think VT can afford to risk it on a younger guy for a real moonshot. We'd risk paying less money to a relative unknown so we have more money for the assistants/support staff. That relative unknown could bungle things but at least then we wouldn't be completely coach poor and VT could reset with some of the leftover cash we won't have if we pay Franklin and he fails. Alternatively, the relative unknown could be the next Cignetti/Elko/Dabo/Smart etc. We know Franklin isn't going to win any championships here. We don't know that Chesney/Helton/etc. wouldn't. The risky part is that we don't know that they would either. We
knowthink Franklin would win 8 games here almost immediately. We don't know that Chesney/Helton would. But they could. If it were me, I'd risk it on a guy like Chesney. There's two gambles here. You either gamble that Franklin won't crash and burn or you gamble that Chesney hammers it out of the park. Franklin is surely the safer bet. But the tradeoff with safe is that you know he's not going to win championships for you.VT is in the worst position we've been in in my lifetime. College football is changing rapidly around us. This is an inflection point. We could play it safe, hire Franklin and hope that he elevates our profile enough to get interest from the P2 when the ACC collapses. Or we could swing for the fences, gamble on young up-and-comer with an exciting vision for the future, save some money to put into assistants so the new guy can surround himself with truly valuable assistants and hope that they elevate our program enough to get into the P2 when the ACC collapses.
Both are gambles. The safer bet has a lower payoff but far more damaging ramifications if it doesn't work out. The riskier bet has much higher payoff potential but also higher odds of failing - though the failure would be financially much less painful with the riskier option, affording us a mulligan. In my view, you take the option that will hurt you less if you're wrong but help you more if you're right, rather than the option that won't be as great if you're right but will hurt you a ton more if you're wrong. At the end of the day we don't KNOW for sure which way it'll go. I'd hedge my bets. If I'm gonna be wrong, I don't want to be SUPER wrong. That's Franklin, imo. Less likely to be wrong, but more painful if you are.
It really doesn't matter if we go expensive or go cheap on this hire and it doesn't pan out. The end result is the same - VT is left out of the new world order of college football, the program loses a ton of money/revenue, and the economic impact to the state and region is devastating and permanent. I'm in favor of going all in on a moonshot because Franklin is much more of a known quantity (proven winner and ace recruiter in the P2) than taking a shot on potential from an up-and-comer. If Franklin doesn't work out, then it really doesn't matter because VT football will be done for as we know it.
Franklin will raise the profile and national attention of the VT program day one of being hired. We have to get ourselves back in the conversation, and he's the safest bet and quickest path to getting national relevance back and an immediate turnaround in recruiting/roster overhaul due to regional ties and proximity. It will be expensive, but again if it pays off that doesn't matter. And if it doesn't pay off, then it still won't matter because the end result will be VT is left out of the top tier of football.
I disagree. If we go expensive and it doesn't work out we're completely screwed. If we go cheap and it doesn't work out we have a shot at a mulligan. I think there's time between now and the ACC completely falling apart for two coaches. If the first coach isn't working out in the first couple years you cut ties and move on. You can't' do that with Franklin because you'll be completely coach poor. You pay Franklin now and hope he works out because if he doesn't you're fucked. Or, you risk it on another coach and if he doesn't work out you get one more shot. That's the difference.
You're right from a financial perspective, but not from a timing perspective. We won't know if Franklin or anyone else is a bust for 3 years (or more). At that point the dominoes will have fallen on conference realignment.
Counterpoint: Scared money don't make money
Scared money always takes the safe bet or the sure deal. Hiring Franklin is scared money.
Gonna disagree there. Franklin is only an option/available because Pedo state is stupid and unreasonable with their coaching expectations of Franklin.
Franklin is a sure bet to raise our floor and most likely the ceiling as well, there's really no guarantee we get that with anyone else outside of Saban, Smart, Sark, Lanning, Day, maybe one or two others. Not even sure Lanning would if you remove him from Nike money.
It seems you've missed my point. Scared money goes after the sure thing. You're saying Franklin is the closest thing to a sure thing. I'm not saying scared money isn't smart money. But I am saying hiring Franklin is a scared money move.
I think it's more that we got burned by going the cheap route, and are now willing to try something else.
You are confusing scared money with smart money. Hiring Franklin is smart money. You get more assured ROI, and whatever ceiling you think is there is higher than what we deem to be the baseline of success here.
See Also:
Paying someone with a proven record vs paying someone who is a complete question mark.
No, I'm not. I even said smart money and scared money aren't mutually exclusive. But everyone thinks Franklin is as close to a sure thing as there is. Scared money always goes after the sure thing. By definition Franklin is the scared money option. I'm not saying that's bad or dumb but it absolutely is scared.
I think Franklin would be a good coach at VT. I don't know that he would. I think it's possible to overpay for what he's done. I'd like to backload his contract with incentives. Don't pay him for what he's done at PSU... Pay him for what he's done at VT.
I think it's more that scared money is risk averse than it is going after the "sure thing". An unknown hire that costs $3m annually might be less risky than a $12m "sure thing" simply because it's easier to get out of and move on than being saddled with an 8 figure buyout if something goes wrong
We have degraded into angry etymology.
Please announce a hire next week. Please, I am begging.
It bugs me beyond words when people confuse etymology and entomology
It happens everywhere in epidemiology
The Penis mightier.
Wait, am I doing this right?
I see what you did there honey. .
It's a piary subtle distinction.
🧦🧦🧦🧦🧦 out of five (pairs). Bravo!
Scared money is risk averse. Agree with that. I think where people are struggling to agree is on what is riskier. Is paying an unknown any amount of money riskier than paying a huge sum of money for a "known" quantity? I think that's the debate.
My stance is that paying an unknown any amount of money is riskier than paying a ton of money to Franklin. BUT (and I mean a big but) if we pay a ton of money to Franklin and he doesn't work out we're going to be really sorry for it.
I think Franklin is worth about 8-8.5 million for VT provided that we leave money left over to pay the staff he wants the money they deserve. I just don't think Franklin will come to VT for that amount of money. He's going to maximize what he can earn now before he coaches another game (and I don't blame him at all). My chief concern is that what it'll take just to get him here will be an overpay and leave us completely strapped for cash and if he doesn't work out (which, however unlikely anyone thinks that may be, we have to acknowledge that's possible) we'll be completely fucked.
Little Bobby Tables likes to mock me for the "more with less" mindset here but he's missing a nuance. I would rather pay market value for an unknown with potential (i.e. Paying closer to 5-6 million to a Helton or Chesney) but be prepared to pay upwards of 10-12 for a coach. What I mean is pay a guy less up front but give him the opportunity to prove himself and when he wins big and proves his worth then pay him what he's worth. I want to pay good coaches what they are worth. I don't expect to operate on a shoestring. But I think we're in a position where we have to take a shot on an unproven up and comer and then pay him for what he's done for VT. Paying a huge sum of money for a guy who has proven himself somewhere else is great if you're flush with cash. VT isn't. That's why I don't think Franklin is the move for VT.
The conclusion of that last paragraph contradicts your first few, though. You don't want Franklin because it's too risky to allocate the money it would take to get him. Helton/Chesney are just cheaper in case it doesn't work out... less risky, not more.
Eh. I think Franklin is less risky. The catch is that we have to pay more for less risk and it's my belief that the only way to get Franklin here is to pay more than he's worth to VT. I don't think paying him more than he's worth is riskier than paying an unknown less money. I just don't think it's worth it. Franklin to me is less risk AND less value. Helton would be riskier but I think it's a better value proposition.
My whole argument is that there are better VALUE options than Franklin. Risk isn't really the point.
And besides, this whole sidebar was kicked off by the "scared money don't make money" line. Regardless of what you think the risk is, everyone seems to agree that Franklin is the "safe" hire which is exactly what scared money goes after.
Franklin can be the smart money, safe, less risky, lesser value, scared money option. All of those can be true.
I see it a little differently.
Pry was the scared money. Low risk, low potential reward.
Franklin is the road less traveled. He's a statement hire for VT. Franklin is the higher risk, because you have to actually pay a premium to get him. Do you get an adequate return on the investment? We don't know. And whether he's really interested or just "playing the game" is as of yet undetermined. The only real risk is if you think Franklin can't make improvements to the football program. I think he can.
Nvidia isn't scared money. It's speculative money. It's a gamble.
Buzz Williams was the road less traveled. Was he worth it? Well, we got lucky and he was subsidized, but I'd say he was definitely worth it.
VT certainly doesn't have to pay Franklin, but if they can find an arrangement that works for both Franklin and VT I think he's a good bet, and a potential shortcut to national prominence after years in the desert. Not worth mortgaging the grandchildren's futures over, though. You have to convince some boosters to support it.
There are other options, but he's a valid one if they can make the numbers work.
Pry was scared money, but if we are looking ar risk the impact of pry was small because of cost but the likelihood he succeeded was also low. Franklin has a big impact if he fails because of his price but the likelihood he succeeded is higher.
The impact of Pry was more the time wasted, and the diminishing perception of the program, while still paying a decent chunk of change.
Franklin sends a message just through the hire: that VT is serious about college football. I think he has a recruiting effect immediately, and I agree that the likelihood of success is higher.
Either you get him or you don't, but even pursuing him sends a message about intent. This is the range of coach we want it known we're in the market for.
Nothing about hiring James Franklin is assured. Future success or failure
Well, to be pedantic, spending money is assured.
You got me there
What Cignetti was doing was objectively incredible that the time though. They were not just winning, but winning every game and blowing people out, at a higher level of football. Didn't even know he had been at Alabama, but that should've sold it to anyone interested
I think Franklin is the only logical choice.
We've done the "hot" G5 coach before. Didn't work out (probably more due to inability to fire people but still...) And EVERYONE in the sports world thought Fu was a homerun hire.
People want to hire another G5 HC whose ability at the P4 level is unknown over a coach who has coached and coached well at the top of the P4 (PSU may not be OSU, Bama, Mich blueblood but they are right under it).
It just boggles my mind. Franklin makes the most sense. Will he stay forever? Probably not. If he took us to a natty I bet he would be hired away the following year. But he will have put us in a way better place to find another hot coach in that position than where we are now.
We are drowning and people want to tell us to change our stroke to swim instead of just throwing out the life preserver.
if money wasn't a limiting factor (i.e. we had lots of it to blow on anything and everything) then I'd agree. But that's not the case. It's a limited resource for us and we have to consider how we spend it. I think Franklin would be a good hire for VT. Don't get me wrong, I'm not AGAINST Franklin so much as I don't think he's the BEST option for us. But he's going to squeeze every last penny out of us. And I don't know that he's worth it. I'd rather spend a little less on a lesser known quantity and save some cash for the assistant coaching pool/staff and bank a little as a contingency incase the lesser known quantity isn't working out (which, we will know relatively quickly whether or not he's working out). With Franklin, you risk blowing your whole wad on him and then not getting much better. If we pay him 12mm and he doesn't have any money left over to bring in good assistants he could fail and fail miserably and then we could be in a really big world of hurt. Much worse than we're in now.
One difference between you and me is that a salary of 10-12 million isn't an option for anybody to me. The offer is 5-7 at most depending on experience and qualifications. Franklin might get the high offer of 7. He is a coach that was fired for multiple reasons and has an offset clause. He accepts at 7 and gets 3-4 million for his staff or we TELL him to walk. In my mind, Franklin is first among equals, but is not essential and Whit has to be willing to walk away. If the Agent is an ass, tell Franklin that the agent cost him the job and good luck elsewhere. There is a time that everybody needs to be willing to walk away.
The money has been promised, it hasn't been raised and might not. We can't afford to hire somebody and then not be able to make the payments. Look at UNLV where Mullen is working on a contract that is bankrupting the school and causing them to stop payments to players.
There are multiple G5 up and comers that will accept a job between 5-7 in a heartbeat that might have a lower floor but about the same ceiling. For those G5 coachs, a 5 million dollar contract is at LEAST five times their current salary if not 10 times.
Its the same agent for all of the candidates. If we aren't hiring coach A because of the agent, he is also representing coach B
and C...and D...and E....and F. That man just prints money every cycle and I am envious of that.
I'm not entirely sure that's a difference between us. I think you and I agree to an extent. I Don't think Franklin will take 7 million. But I also don't think VT should pay him 10-12. IF we get Franklin for 7 million that will be a major coup and I would feel pretty good about it. If we back up the brinks truck and pay him anything more than 8 or 9 I'm not going to be excited about it but I'll feel decent that we at least got a coach who should be pretty decent. If we end up hiring Bob Chesney for 4-5 million and give him 2-3 for his OC/DCs and another 1-2 for the rest of his staff I'll be super stoked and excited for football next year.
$5M would put us at 47th on the Coaches Salary Database
$7M would put us tied for 32nd on the Coaches Salary Database.
I'd say that Franklin is probably in the top 15 of coaches based on what he's done historically. He'll be a great recruiter and consistent winner but he won't win you championships. What would be the compensation for the 15thish ranked coach? Like I said, I don't think he'd take 7. I also don't think he's worth 10-12. I think he'd probably be worth about 8ish to 9ish. But that's a lot to pay somebody who hasn't done anything for you yet. It's kinda why I like the route of a G5 coach. I'd rather be the school that ups a guy's pay based on what he's done for me than be the school to pay huge gobs of money to a coach who did something of value for someone else.
But this is exactly what VT needs right now. If we get back to being consistently good, then we are well-positioned for whatever college football looks like next. Then, we can worry about championships.
By that time, Franklin will either be the guy, or we'll be in a better position to find the next guy who can elevate us further. We will have solidified our position such that we can then afford to take a riskier, high-upside shot.
okay, let's for a moment agree that that is what VT needs right now. Do you pay well above market for that? That's the question I'm asking. I think Franklin would be a good coach for VT. I don't think he'd come here for anything less than 8 million. I think he's worth about 8.2 million AT MOST. And people are throwing around 10-12. Would you pay 10-12 for "consistent winner but he won't win you championships"?
It's not about what VT needs. It's about what Franklin is worth to VT.
Just curious - if we were guaranteed top 10 finishes year in and year out, what would that be worth? I'm not saying Franklin is the guy to do it (or that he couldn't), but what should be the top dollar for a "Nick Saban" in today's environment?
By next year there will almost certainly be closer to 20 coaches over the $10M a season mark based on the openings we already know about. Four of the coaches between 11 and 20 now have received extensions that put them above $10M next season. Drinkwitz is also in that group so either Missouri re-ups him or he likely gets the raise from one of the openings. If Cristobal wins out to make the CFP, I believe he already has a clause that would increase him to $10.5M next season.
Fair point. I don't think we need to be top 10 in coach's pay, so using Ltrepeter's numbers below, the range for the top 11-25 is currently $7.5-9M, with Rhule being #15 at $8 point something. So your max of $8.2M seems spot on.
But that's all based on the #'s from the last cycle and they are destined to go up due to current supply and demand imbalance. We're already seeing it with the coaches signing extensions. It would be great if the range for a top 25 coach only shifted to $8-10M, but that is unlikely. I do think the bottom half of the top 25 could be in that range.
And that is likely to be our struggle with Franklin. He would argue he is a top 10 coach and while I believe we can say with some certainty he'd make us into a top 25 team quickly, not sure about top 10.
So your argument that we shouldn't pay top 10 money for 11-25 results is valid. The problem is we don't know where the new split is going to be between 1-10 and 11-25.
Current #15 is Matt Rhule at $8.5M but he just signed an extension that raises him to $10M next year, $11M in 2027, and $12.5M in 2030.
I honestly don't care where the Coaches Salary database puts us. They should be paid based on performance with rights to increase accordingly.
Shane is actually a great example.
He was hired at 3 mil. Two years later after good performance he was redone at 5-6 and then after continued good performance raised to 8. That is how contracts for new or raised G5 coaches should be done. Reward coaches for good performance with raises and bonuses. They should know the base will be increased based on performance.
I'd be in favor of an offer at $6-7MM + $2-3MM/yr deferred 5 years (or whenever the PSU contract ends) based on performance and longevity. He wins, his agent wins, PSU pays an offset, and the Hokies save some cash while hopefully generating more revenue with a better product on the field.
That would barely put us in the Top 50 of head coaching salaries
Our fanbase needs to wake up and realize th climate has significantly changed since the last time we were good. The price to compete is significantly higher than it used to be.
I think something that is important that a lot of people don't talk about or aren't considering is merit increases. I think paying a guy who hasn't coached a single game for you 10 million is bordering on insane. Start him at 7 but build in incentives. If he wins big for you then you up his pay. Pay him for what he's done for you. Not for the promise of what he might do. The starting salary for coaches should be well under what a program is willing to pay a coach. If that coach performs well then you pay him accordingly. If not, then you cut him lose and start over with the next guy without putting yourself in a huge hole. The problem is that coaching agents are evidently far savvier than their counterparts at universities so we've got these wild contracts that are heavily tilted in the favor of coaches.
You're trying to be logical about an industry that defies it!
They don't have to be that savvy. The supply vs demand gives them a huge advantage.
Right now Franklin is the only truly available candidate and there are three SEC openings, two Big 10, two ACC openings, and one Big 12 opening in the P4. Eight jobs and that number may double by Monday. Most of those fired are not even being considered by the P4 as a viable replacement. Pretty easy negotiating when you are an agent in that position, especially when the current market rates are what they are.
Current Salary Ranges
1-10: $13.2M - $9M
11-25: $9M-$7.44M
25-40: $7.42M-$6.1M
41-50: $6.1M-$4.7M
Not to mention that the schools doing the hiring do this once every few years at the most. The agents do this multiple times a year, every year. They have heard all the pitches, all the ideas, all the plans before. Nothing is going to surprise them or put them off balance. Meanwhile the school has to play catch up every time.
Yeah, I hate to say it, but you have to pay to play.
This the college football world. We're just living in it.
Again, I don't care what other teams are doing. I know what Tech can afford to do. The money isn't there yet. It hasn't been raised, it hasn't been delivered.
Do what is and has been historically approved nationwide. Hire for medium with bonuses built in and escalators for performance. If you hire at 5 million, and give a 1 million bonus for 10 plus wins great. Coaches accept these deals all the time. Franklin might think he is above this, but one thing to remember is that he has a offset clause. Penn State can be huffy all they want, but it is a competitive salary at 5-7.
New or G5 promotions accept these deals. That's too big a gamble at this point. A $5 million coach will likely lead us into irrelevancy.
You should, because this is what sets the market for coaches of every level. We don't get to hire or play in a vacuum. Even if we think it is too much, that is what they cost now.
If we hire a coach on these terms we can expect to get the same results that other teams that hire coaches on those terms get.
When Godfrey was talking about the questions that Tech was going to ultimately have to answer to agents about the financial commitments and infrastructure changes we need to make he made a comment that there are plenty of coaches who would take this job for cheap in a heartbeat, but what does that say about the quality of the candidates or the red flags that they may come with. Hiring someone who will accept just because we're paying them 5x or 10x their salary doesn't mean they're a quality candidate.
No, but hiring somebody on the super cheap almost guarantees we are getting what we pay for
You're assuming Frankiln would take every penny and knowingly make himself not have enough to bring in coordinators he would want.
Why wouldn't he use his payments from PSU to offset his salary and state that he want's X amount for OC / DC etc.?
I don't think Franklin is dumb enough to take every penny and then have nothing for his coordinators. He knows he needs money for good coaches.
If he thought that VT wouldn't pay him what he thinks he's worth, along with enough to hire the coordinators he needs, then he wouldn't be considering VT.
FWIW (not much) - Joe Rexrode did a column in The Athletic this morning predicting the coaching carousel (all the potential jobs, not just currently available), and he did have Franklin to VT. His logic was more or less that VT is a better job for Franklin than a B-tier P2 school outside of his mid-atlantic base like Michigan State or Wiscy.
I'm still skeptical, but it's at least not just VT delusion saying there's a chance. Notably absent from Rexrode's predictions were UNC which IMO would have similar pros to VT (winnable conference, same recruiting footprint).
Could we find a coach to make it possible to become bowl eligible by games 6-8, not 11 or 12? I'm somewhat.../s
I believe that since we are seeing his name so much it WONT be the hire that's gets made.
I hope they're working on plan B-Z because if (likely when) this falls through, I don't want to get stuck.
The longer this year goes on, the higher the chances are of VT falling in the head coach opening power ranking.
I have no doubt that they are.
100% agree. This happened with Fuente search.
Chad Morris ring a bell?
As time has gone on I'm more and more skeptical. Names that linger are never the ones. Could be wrong, but it's usually rumor to done deal inside of 24 hours.
Exactly.
Seems like "the one" will happen fairly quickly from offer to acceptance.
The longer it drags out over details, the more it seems like VT may just be the stalking horse.
I will happily eat my words if I prove to be wrong, but I stated before and continue to believe that Franklin will not end up coaching at VT. I believe that his career goal is to win a nation championship and VT is not the program he needs to reach that possible outcome. My bet is that he has instructed his agent to get him a job in the SEC at a school with a passionate fanbase that can offer him the NIL resources he needs to buy a competitive team. Until proven otherwise, I will continue to assume that Franklin and Sexton are simply using VT's interest to pump up his name and resume until an AD or committee at Florida, Auburn or LSU makes him an offer. Hope I am wrong, but the longer the "negotiations" drag out, the more convinced I become that VT is simply a bargaining chip in a bigger game.
I don't think any one is arguing this... people are debating if Franklin is a good coach. But I think everyone agrees this isn't a done deal until it's a done deal.
Right. I'm not really even sure anyone is debating whether he's a good coach. I think everyone agrees he's a good coach with a high floor who will demand a lot of money. He's the safe, albeit expensive, smart hire.
That said, I agree with fireman when he said this rumor has gone on for so long that it's extremely unlikely he'll wind up in Blacksburg. If he'd been announced this past week then it would have tracked. At this point it seems pretty clear he's not going to be our coach.
If it doesn't grow from rumor to official announcement within 48 hours then it's not likely to be true, imo.
I am happy for the theoretical Monday deadline. If it is Franklin and a reasonable contract, great. Otherwise move on.
Would be hard to disagree with this.
The advantage of firing your coach early is that you can hire someone else sooner.
The problem there is who else are you going to hire early with who else isn't coaching right now. Almost all the other coaches we have discussed are sitting coaches on bowl bound teams. Means they may be starting the job here with only a week or two to prep for the portal.
I would rather shorter time than overpaying or picking the wrong coach just to get a jump on something.
I'm more concerned with locking them in than their actual start date.
I am on standby for a leak today just based on chatter. No direct knowledge, but the smoke is getting real. 😈
Yep, people on reddit saying his family is flying in today to watch him sign.
Fire up the flight tracker!
Oh they already did. Here's the flight tracking info from that post on r/VirginiaTech. Post is titled "James Franklin is signing today"
Flight tracking comment:
N676VJ was the plane Franklin took to Blacksburg on 10/30 and is his departing plane this evening to Athens. Which is an hour from his lake house.
PJC22 is the plane his family took this morning.
No clue if any of this is real!
According to reddit user Katfish145, the family jet to Athens is scheduled to depart around noon...maybe some news soon?
#sauces say this is president sands burner acct
Seems a monumental miss publicity wise if this is true. Not that half the world would see it in ESPN right now.
I think somebody throwing shit to the wall to see how much sticks. That plane did land in Bburg on the 30th and is also scheduled to depart Bburg at 5pm this evening bound for Athens , however this isn't the first time that particular aircraft has done this. We shall see if any truth to it.
Yea I agree. I think this is mostly a bunch of nonsense. Don't think we'll get any resolution in the next week really. Happy to be wrong, but I'm sure Franklin and Sexton and going to use the Auburn opening as leverage to inflate any offers he receives.
Well we are about to find out if Franklin really was dragging us along just to see what Auburn does.
No, no Eric, continue that statement
Quite the interesting reaction. How in the know would MacLain really be? I would think he'd possibly know a lot being that he works with Eddie but those pesky NDAs
Eric in that moment -
Sure. Stoke the fire.
I believe nothing until announced. And even then I'll double check it.
I don't believe rumors of any announcement I'd like. Just the ones that seem underwhelming.
I heard a rumor that he's already the coach and we're being admitted to the CFP as a secret 13th slot.
I'm certain there are some discussions being had that would technically violate the NDA. "Don't tell anyone I told you this", wink, wink!
The NDA only means something if a party sues an alleged disclosing party and proves the disclosure was caused by them. Even then, how do they define the damages in a case like this?
It's almost more of an honor system - I signed this so I should behave accordingly.
Yeah I've signed plenty of NDAs so I get that part, I don't have friends in the media though and if I did and signed an NDA they're probably not the people I'd have those discussions with lol.
Just feels like another "leak" source to pad Franklin and Sexton
meh. Nothing burger IMO. Maclain wouldn't be in the know and even if he was, and he does know something, this reaction reveals relatively nothing. He's probably hearing the same scuttlebutt we all are
If you don't want us to hire Franklin, it's nothing. I'm not so sure.
I am sure that Eric Mac Lain is more in the know than the vast majority of us though.
He's one of the faces on the ACC Network. Its literally his job to be plugged into the goings on of this conference before news breaks so he can be prepared to talk about it. He knows more about this process than any of us, and because of who he works alongside of, he likely more than any of the regular sources we have been leaning on.
It's a nothing burger because Maclain essentially just implied that he knows something about Franklin without actually hinting at what he might know or how that might or might not be related to VT. It has taught us nothing. I come away from it supposed to think that Maclain knows something. That gets me nowhere.
Sounds to me like he knows where Franklin's going and it's not Auburn. Doesn't mean he's right, and doesn't mean we are or aren't getting him, but as far as college football coaching rumors go, it's not nothing.
What do you think is the second half of the sentence? That Franklin to Tech is a done deal?
that's just it - it could have been anything. It could've been that Franklin is definitely going to VT or definitely not going to VT. Nothing was revealed here except perhaps that maybe he knows more than he's letting on. Which, big whoop.
This is more of a "i've heard" that I'd expect they've heard what we've all heard
The rumour mill is good for both Franklin and Virginia Tech.
But it's far short of an announcement or a deal.
Its also more exciting than watching Virginia Tech football actually play this year
VT football has been pretty dramatic this year. Close games, blowing leads, unpredictability. It's actually kind of exciting if you're ok with sloppy football.
I would have liked to seen more OT games like Cal than crockpots like Louisville, but overall, I agree (post ODU at least)
I kinda want to listen to this whole episode now lol
So today is the make or break day right? If it doesn't happen today, it doesn't happen. Anybody got the sauces?
pretty sure that's as much of a fact as "we're in official negotiations" which no one actually knows but just random unconfirmed sauces
My sauce is saying maybe not today.
Agent is pitting us against 4 other schools. Won't say which ones.
Franklin was in town for 2 days. Wants a school with a good hospital for his daughter.
Carilion has 2.9 stars on google....really hope they checked out LewisGale
I wouldn't trust Google results, but also wouldn't be comfortable living in SWVA with a daughter that needs that kind of medical care.
Not really that different from central PA though
Fair point! I didn't realize PSUs hospital was in Hershey, which is 2 hours away and isn't really different from having to get from Blacksburg to Charlottesville for quality care.
You can also be at Wake Forest or Duke in around the same time as Charlottesville.
My friend went to PA school in at PSU in Hershey. Apparently the Hershey's paid for the hospital but only if it was located in Hershey.
Nursing majors at PSU have to spend a semester living in Hershey so they can get hands-on experience. Pretty terrible set up for an undergrad
Half a star higher than Indiana's hospital.
My youngest was in the NICU for 3 months at Carilion and everything we've had to do after for the last 4 years (therapies, surprised, procedures, at home care, etc) has been nothing but fantastic. People are quick to leave bad reviews but folks with good experiences rarely leave positive reviews.
I have heard many good things about the Carillion NICU, not so much their other programs. Depending on when your youngest was there, you probably ran into one of my sister in laws as she works in that program as a Nurse.
It would've been Sept 2021 through December 2021. My wife and I still do some work with the NICU now that she's on the parental advisory board, so I'm curious if she is still there, who it may be.
Well she goes by the first name Becca.
4 other schools? Man, this is like we made a recruit's Top 5 (no order - my recruitment is still open). Makes me write this off as not happening. Onto plan B I think
Any smart agent wouldn't be saying "four other schools", which is tantamount to "I'm not all that interested".
His agent didn't say "four other schools." 07Hokie said that, but I don't think that's Jimmy Sexton's account.
Why are we so desperate to poke holes in these rumors?
That there's competition for one of the top coaches on the market is neither surprising nor is it evidence of his lack of interest in us.
Truth is i'm only poking holes in the rumors / being pessimistic so that I don't get my own hopes up too high, as I often do with sports fandom. I'm fully aware that Tech and the fans shouldn't 'give up' on the idea of Franklin coming here
If i'm Jimmy Sexton, I have done a very poor job at getting any talent to Blacksburg, considering I'm top 15 in turkey legs.
Seems like it's time to move on and get down to business with candidates #2, #3, #4
Agreed. We can't afford to be a part of a bidding war, time to look at guys like Bob Chesney.
Why? Why move on? No deal from a currently employed coach is going to be finalized until the season ends. We can and should continue to pursue other coaches until Franklin tells us no. Unless you want Pat Fitzgerald or Jimbo Fisher (god, I just threw up in my mouth typing that) there is zero point to moving on from Franklin today.
Interested in Chesney? Go interview him. Ask him about who he would hire, his recruiting strategy, his salary expectations, NIL expectations, etc.
And at the same time, continue negotiating with Franklin. If you get an agreement, great. If you don't, then you haven't lost any momentum.
We're so used to getting big dogged that we'd rather preemptively remove ourselves from contract negotiations to make sure we don't get publicly rejected.
This is true. We can also continue to look.
But the odds of it happening go way down if Franklin is waiting around for his dream offer. That's more of a mutual interest than an agreement.
I mean, I think you're right - we should continue discussions (if there are even discussions) but I also think we need to draw a line in the sand. If Franklin has other suitors we need to determine what he's actually worth to us and lay that out for him. If it's not good enough for him then he knows where we stand and we focus on other coaches. If he goes after other opportunities and doesn't get what he wants and comes crawling back to us to agree to what we've laid out for him then great. What I don't want to happen is for us to act desperate and just give him everything he asks for regardless of whether it makes sense for us.
We can set the final offer out for him that is agreeable to us and continue discussions with other coaches. We don't have to flat out tell him no or shutdown the negotiations but if he's going to play hardball and leverage us and other institutions against each other we just need to make it clear what we're willing to offer and also (soft skill) send the message to him that we don't need him and we'll find another coach if he doesn't agree to what we're offering.
There's no need to put a final offer now. Everything is fluid. It's not just a single number - it's Comp + Staff Comp + Player Comp + Intangibles. Both side can feel out the market and continue feeling it out for another three weeks.
Exactly. We're Christmas shopping in August right now. We should jump on a deal if we get the chance, but there is no need to be panicky about anything at the moment.
I would rather move on and make a decision than hang around the phone waiting for a call. If Franklin wants to be here, he needs to make a commitment or we should move on.
Why? It literally makes no sense. Early Signing day is late december; James Franklin already knows high school kids. The portal opens January 2nd-6th or something? There no need to get this done now other than to satisfy anxious fans.
Now, if it's the Monday after thanksgiving, I'm open to this argument. But it's not.
I think there are some advantages to being done sooner than later. Good press for VT, build some momentum, get people excited, etc.
But i don't think any of those things is worth rushing
Just gonna make some guesses:
Auburn
Florida
Maryland (just to fuck with Penn State if he goes there)
LSU
I keep seeing Maryland pop up...aren't they like notably completely broke?
I have no idea, but by all accounts Franklin can be petty. What better way to get at PSU than go in conference and start beating them every year
Franklin hates MD after they fucked him over years ago. He always runs up the score every time he plays them. He ain't going there.
Hey, don't we have a series with Maryland coming up? He would still get his chance at them if he came to VT.
You joke, but I think he'd relish the opportunity.
Yep-@ MD Sept 16 2028 and at home Sept 15, 2029
This is why you sign with VT
He can mess with Penn State by going to VT. He doesn't need to degrade himself by going to Maryland.
James Franklin would have to let go of a lot of pretty to go back to Maryland. They made him head coach in waiting when Friedgen was HC and backed out of it and hired Randy Edsall instead. I've heard multiple times on podcast that he still holds this against them and while at Penn State made a point of running up the score against Maryland when he could.
To be clear, I hope he's still mad at them since it removes another potential suitor.
I'm pretty sure it was Godfrey who said that he still had his binder of his plan for when he took over as Maryland HC in his office at Penn State.
Ahh, yeah I forgot about that part, okay I'll replace them with Arkansas on my list
He isn't at the top of the list of any of those 3 SEC schools
If he goes SEC, I'd guess Mizzou if someone picks off Drink
I don't know that I buy that. That sounds like agent bs. If he had that many schools interested in him, and let's assume some were high profile SEC jobs, I don't even think we would have gotten anywhere near this far in discussions. Truthfully, I think he doesn't have many options/the options he and his agent thought he might have, and Sexton is trying to generate smoke to get us to pay more and more.
Carilion just got another large donation for it's new cancer center https://www.wdbj7.com/2025/10/28/carilion-clinic-surpasses-100m-fundrais...
They also received approval for a new Kidney transplant center https://cardinalnews.org/2025/05/09/carilion-receives-state-approval-for...
Amtrak service to NRV to start in 2027 https://vapassengerrailauthority.org/projects/nrvproject/#details Makes for an easy ride back and forth.
Amtrak?
With the money we'll be investing into him, don't be surprised if he ends up having a personal jet or helicopter for those trips, and the cost being baked into the contract.
Yeah, JF is a helicopter guy for sure. If I was a multi-millionaire though I would still ride the train. Love trains. Man if this country had real high-speed rail...
I would love high speed rail here, just to explore. And for the train experience. I took the shinkansen a few times in Japan and it was worlds better than flying.
Will likely NEVER happen in the USA outside of specific areas like the NE corridor and Brightline in south Florida; why? cause the tracks are owned by the freight lines which means their trains get all the priority. Would need to build dedicated tracks which means new rights of way , environmental studies, NIMBY issues. The distances in this country are vast compared to any European country (except Russia) or Japan.
oh man don't get me started on trains, best travel experience of my life was going up to and back from Connecticut on the train to visit my best friend and his wife about a year ago. Real high speed rail would be so transformative
I can confirm that the Amtrak Cambria station work has started and is continuing. I drive by it almost every day on way to/from work.
Let me clarify.
My source didn't say what the other four schools were, not the agent didn't say what the other schools were
Indiana will need a new coach after we hire cignetti
Eh - I wouldnt stress about this too much. Blacksburg is just as close to a sickle cell center of excellence as State College. Im sure PSU Hershey has hematologists that treat sickle cell, but it isnt a center of excellence. There just simply arent enough patients with sickle cell in that area for it to be. In our area, Blue Ridge Cancer Care (or Carilion Peds Heme) has enough experience to handle sickle cell, but certainly would work with larger centers for complicated cases.
https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/news/james-franklin-predicted-to-coach-acc-program-after-penn-state-firing
well there you have it.
SIAI reporting on a hypothetical conversation of two other sports reporters. All but confirms it.Really is such a shame how bad and unreliable is now. That summary really was just a full nothing burger and a rehash of a segment.
The only thing that makes me curious is if Franklin said anything to Herbie when he was on Gameday about possible spots. Even it was asking an opinion on towns/schools/atmosphere kind of thing.
Yeah, i only thought it was just interesting that it had just dropped when i posted it. i didn't post the link necessarily for the content but because of the timing that the article was released. 🤷🏼♂️
If the ball's in his court, there's gotta be some kind of a shot clock violation by now....
They're just waiting for the basketball game to announce aren't they?
I think they're going to shoot him out of a cannon at halftime
This would be the best halftime show ever. Maybe only second to Red Panda
Red panda is going to balance James Franklin on the bowls
Soooo....
There was a string of tweets like some more smoke came out. Just enough to keep me interested this evening.
There's also some wrestling news apparently but I'm refusing to believe these tweets are related to that
Well, link em!
I'm on my phone and they were by Twitter people not anyone with known connections.
Mike McDaniel, Tally Bandz, Adam Boitnott, and BAG all tweeted eyes/gifs right around the same time
As in the miami dolphins coach?
Adam Boitnott probably is in the know. He is CEO of Hylaine and very connected in the AD. He and his wife funded the women's basketball locker room renovation at Hahn Hurst.
Yeah that's when I started paying attention he said something along the lines that 'it would be a very interesting night to be at the basketball game'
Also replied to BAGs tweet with the pope white smoke.
I know there's some reverence for BAG on this site, but didn't he pretty much get run out of here for most of his hints being wrong or it turning out to be super underwhelming like a low 3 star commitment?
Reverence reserved for LA Hokie imo, doesn't comment often but also doesn't miss. Continously has info that lends to legit sources.
BAG seemed to hype things without sources and incorrectly at times if I recall (correct me if I'm wrong friends)
I definitely agree on LA - she never misses
I think BAG continuously hinted at Tony Elliott being the hire in 2020 until Fuente was not fired
JUGS dropped in with the Tony Elliott crumbs too
So many names I haven't heard in a long time.
Considering everything we know and what we can see with our own eyes indicates VT Board/Sands backed out of firing Fuente at the last second, I still believe those Elliott rumors were legit.
Yeah JUGS just fell off the face of the earth. Last post I can remember was right after the infamous Whit dehumanizing press conference in 2020, and was just like wow I don't know what happened here. And then poof no more JUGS.
I thought jugs went to a new program in iowa or something
This got me curious so I went back and looked at JUGS most recent comments, all from the last coaching search.
This comment was super interesting.
I know that Elko has been talked about as someone who was interested last time, and things probably shake out here similar to Duke as far as him leaving for A&M, but what a sliding doors moment for our program.
I may be misremembering but I feel like there was some debate whether the BAG on Twitter was the same one who posted here because he used to be generally correct on TKP (or was for a while) and once he stopped posting here and was posting more on Twitter it was pretty consistently wrong.
Either way, it's been forever since I thought about BAG.
Yeah I remember BAG's TKP record being pretty good, not as good as LA's but pretty decent hit rate. I also don't remember why he left
Off subject a little bit, but does anyone remember Willard from 247, always dropped cryptic riddles about things a la B-Street style?
I don't post or even read over there anymore so don't know if he's still around.
Haven't posted on 247 since I returned here but yes I do remember Willard, haha. Now there was a guy who had sauces, marinades, AND compotes.
Yes, from what i remember, his sauces were fairly accurate
Willard's hints/scoops were great. "Gobblers!" or "Lads!" And always off to the pub.
I think that individual's sources may have slowly phased out in the post-Beamer era so he isn't active anymore.
We ran him off. He'd come to us with info and people challenged him on it and he didn't want to blow up his sources, so he quit. It really made me mad because he had a good source with good info that he was feeding us and certain people pissed him off because they thought their sauce was more correct and they HAD to be right. Probably the most mad I've ever been at the TKP Community at large, and that's considering the COVID threads and posters like Bender/Shockwave and DCWilson.
He had a decent source, I believe within the equipment department, that left the program either when Fuente took over or during his first couple of seasons.
I don't remember exactly when BAG got ran off, but towards the end he was just reading the tea leaves. I wish he was still on here and I wish he would've just let it go after he lost his source.
I read scuttlebutt at one point toward the end that he was simply pretty much copying from behind paywall scoops on 247 and regurgitating here as an insider. Not sure if that's 100% accurate or not, but a lot of clout chasers out there.
That tracks.
feel like 'clout chasing' should be a song, or something
Jeez. You know some of this does sound familiar now that you mention it. I was none too thrilled about it either, sauces or not he was good people. Probably still is.
He is. He just annoyed the bejesus out of some people.
Racking my brain, but I don't even remember BAG, whether that was an acronym or a word in their username. But then again, I'm over 50, and memory is the third thing to go.
Former TKP user that went by Beamer's Auto Garage.
Ah, yeah, remember that guy. /shrug
fine...and what are the first two?
[scratches head] I can't remember. /shrug
My dad hits me with that one a few times a year, lol...with the setup, I had to follow through...
But I'll just say, the Dad Joke Thread is over there ------>
I said that once to a GS15 from the sponsor (who had started where I am now and I know well). She responded, "TMI." I had to immediately backtrack, "No no no, I wasn't going there!" 🤣
Really could've backfired that time.
Almost had a HR issue on your hands 😅
By chance, do you happen to remember the first two?
He doesn't appear to be in the know, via himself
yeah as I stated below he rolled back everything that he tweeted last night
I don't think any of these guys know anything related to Franklin.
Boitnott was the only one I thought might...he just rolled back his guess...so he's clearly not in the know.
WELL???? WE'RE WAITING.....
Obligatory.
Thank you, after a decade on this site I still can't imbed.
Me too man haha it's hit or miss when I try to do it
I can do it from a computer, but for the life of me, cannot figure it out on my phone
Same
I was wrong yesterday. It's obviously today.
Obligatory
Anticipation
If no announcement in the next day or two, we need to be talking with the next option(s). Not saying we can't continue talks and keep the door open for Franklin, but we can't wait around forever. He either wants the job or he doesn't. To a certain extent I understand some time to make some back channel calls/talks to assemble a staff and gauge player interests. But again, have to be prepared for contingencies and can't let this drag out forever with all eggs in one basket.
I still feel like ultimately we get this done though. But the whole process and agent games is tiresome.
I am with you. Move on to the next choice. Time to either crash and burn with the G5 coach or exceed beyond expectations like Cignetti.
Didn't Cignetti just sign a big extension with Indiana?
Yep, 8 year $11.6m per year contract with a $15m buyout to paid immediately to Indiana if he gets hired before Nov 30, 2026.
Getting him is a complete and utter pipe dream
He did. I meant our G5 coach hire is either going to crash and burn like Fuente did or exceed expectations like Cignetti. I didn't mean hire him specifically.
Auburn came open less than 48 hours ago. I get wanting a quick resolution to this, but if you think we're going to get any answer from Franklin or his agent without them doing due diligence on the possibility of being the HC at Auburn, we're only fooling ourselves.
We have the potential to be a good to great football program, but right now we are dogshit. We are only playing ourselves the fool if we try to play hardball with any top coach who is interested in coaching here. We just need patience, and if he goes to Auburn, it is what it is, its legitimately a better job than VT.
That said, I do suspect the interest from Auburn to Franklin isn't as strong as we would think. They have their sights set on someone with a higher perceived ceiling than Franklin.
I agree - I think others are higher on the board for Auburn, like Sumrall. I think most of this is Sexton creating leverage. But at some point, shit or get off the pot.
We have no leverage. If Franklin doesn't coach here, someone is going to hire him. And if we start trying to throw around a big dick, with the actual program we have right now, that's how you end up with a situation of everyone turning you down and needing to resort to a career assistant coach like Brent Pry.
We aren't good enough to act like that anymore. Like it or not, we're at a point where we need to have patience and let this play out.
I don't think you're right about no leverage. We have money and a good opportunity for a turnaround situation.
But you're right when you say we can't be acting like smug idiots.
We put forward our best case, and look for who we think would be the best coach. I suspect we'll be fairly patient, but will also be looking for a strong alternate.
Our leverage is that there are worse opportunities sitting open right now. Franklin could wait too long and find himself settling. I am in the camp that LSU, FL, Auburn bases think Franklin is beneath them. So he's picking between us, Ok St, or waiting for more dominos to fall.
Why would you assume they aren't doing that right now? I highly doubt all their eggs are in the one basket. Just because there is smoke around Franklin doesn't mean that the search committee is sitting around a table, staring at a phone and waiting for a call. I'm sure they're continuing to do their due diligence on other coaches. I'd like to think they can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Not sure why there's this "All right, pack it in," on Franklin on November 4th. The earliest (external) hire that I can find from last year was on Nov 26 (Mississippi St.). Could be I found an incomplete list, but this just isn't typical coach hiring time yet. It would be wonderful to get it done early. Lots of time left though.
Perhaps, but if Franklin decides VT is the right opportunity, VT would probably be ready to lock it in sooner than the end of November.
Oh, for sure. I'm not saying don't pursue him aggressively. Would love to sign him today.
What I'm pushing back on is the idea that we need to move on. Unless they're completely incompetent, they're identifying/pursuing/interviewing multiple people all at once. There seems to be this idea that there's a huge opportunity cost to what's going on with Franklin. That just doesn't make a ton of sense to me, given where we are in the calendar.
I would hope we never stopped talking to our 'next option(s)'
Announcing this hire during an ACC Network Extra basketball game at a time when probably half of the people that would be watching don't have access would have been so dumb. Also, I can't believe it didn't happen.
I don't think Franklin takes it at this point. Move on to option two, which I heard was Manny Diaz from my unofficial sources.
I don't think there's any reason to
A) believe that Franklin isn't interested anymore.
B) "Move on" all of the rest of our candidates are going to be coaching for the next 2 months so we should stay with Franklin until he's announced otherwise.
On A any good agent and especially Sexton is going to look at the Auburn opening regardless if Franklin is interested or not just to get leverage for his client, that's going to take time and delay any timelines. This could happen every week until the end of the season for all we know.
100% this.
I want Franklin to be the next coach and I'm sitting here like everyone else waiting for an ESPN breaking news. But if we have moved on from him we aren't hiring the next till after the regular season at the earliest. Even if they had a verbal agreement with Chesney there's gonna be no announcement until his regular season is over at the earliest.
Franklin is available now. He has time and honestly so do we, though we'd like to get the ball rolling early of course. This past weekend is when I've read the most about a deal seeming close or done in principle but nothing signed.
so if Franklin has said "Yes, I'll accept the job now lets work out the details" that takes some time as well. Bonuses, coordinator candidates and salary, etc.
we all know how solid those are
Yes but, they are all going to reach a verbal agreement before lawyers/agents draw up any documents and the normal back and forth of detail negotiations occur.
As well, it may include additional silence clauses as the new HC contacts sub coaching staff to go over additional details in order to accurately asses financial requirement of at least OC and DC ballpark costs.
So there's a chance that Franklin is a silent commit until signing day? Cool.
This comes to mind...
To be honest, if it isn't Frankin and another coach is selected all they have to say is a coach has been found. He will complete his current regular season and then the announcement will be made.
has that ever happened in the history of coaching searches?
No idea, but it would be the safe way to respect a sitting coach that has accepted another job for the next year.
While it would be great for VT to hire franklin early so he can start rooting, i dont expect to get a hire of anybody until the typical end of November/early December time frame. Too much incentive for agents ahd coaches to wait until then and the larger coaching landscape is at least a bit more clear as to what will be open.
Offer an early signing sweetener.
For example, double bonus for #games won above 6 if he signs now, decrease by the day until Dec 1.
something something Hardees coupons
Sorry, Coach Franklin, but we're going to have to pull our offer. The fans on the message boards set a hard deadline, and you failed to make a timely decision on our hypothetical offer that we're assuming you received an unknown amount of time ago.
First, this is business, don't apologize. I don't have a Second but this looks good otherwise
Saw a tweet stating BetOnline has the odds of James Franklin being the next VT coach at -250. Beamer is next at +350
Shane or Frank...? /s
Hank
Shank
Well, of course VT is cookin. We've got the best dining halls in the damn country!
London broil at west end
I used to be the one doing the marinating and grilling of those.
Add in some mushroom sauce, the roasted garlic mashed potatoes with chicken gravy and crispy onion straws, and the cornbread and you had the best meal 2.15 on a flex account could buy.
Thank you for your service!
There was a time in the early 00s that I split time between the Philly Cheesesteak guy and the General Tso's Chicken guy over in Owen's
What was the burrito place in Owens?
Was it Molé?
I remember you! I worked the Philly shop regularly at Owen's.
To this day, the Buffalo Chicken Sandwich from Flip's in Owens is my favorite meal of all time. Broke my heart when i learned they took it out.
Every buffalo chicken sandwich I eat is measured on a scale of 1- Flip's.
If you graduated in 07 like myself, then I ate many many servings of that meal you just described. I studied the line and the times to figure out the best times to go and would adjust my meal schedule, or on/off campus schedule accordingly. My mouth is watering right now.
I did graduate in '07 - chances are I made you a Philly at some point or another!
Oh you definitely served me as well. Between a chicken steak with provolone and a taco bowl from the singing server in the Mexican stand nextdoor, those were the days, my friend.
Hopefully I hooked you all up at Hokie Grill as I was mainly cashier/student manager at that point.
Hokie Grill represent!!
Obligatory: what year?
Hopeful that we're playing big boi ball
So Eric Mac Lain, Kirk Herbstreit, and Pat McAfee all seem to know something . Andy Bitter said publicly that he thinks Franklin to VT is going to happen. I know we're the most snakebitten pessimistic fanbase in the country, but I can't help but think we're looking good here.
Franklin fatigue hitting me hard man. I'm tired of talkin about him.
So who's watching the basketball game tonight?
I bet James Franklin is watching
Really laugh out loud.
😂😂😂
We get it, you don't want us to hire him. But this is the James Franklin thread. You don't have to keep reading or commenting if you're tired of talking about him.
Let me be clear. I think he'd be a good hire for us. It's not that I don't want hire him. It's that I don't want to overpay for him. And I also don't subscribe to the idea that if we don't land him we're destined for purgatory. I'd be happy if we hired him and not devastated if we don't.
I have OCD and have to read each thread when it pops up with unread comments. It's a thing... Sorry, not sorry.
I think we've beaten the JF horse to death. There are people who really really want him. People who don't want him. Then me (and probably others) who is kinda luke warm on him.
At the end of the day none of us really have any idea what's going on with our hiring process. Lots of smoke around JF and VT. Hard not to get excited about it but cmon, at this point we're all just saying the same things over and over again. I'm just ready for JF to be off the board. Ideally VT signs him for a-not-too-unreasonable amount of money. But if he goes elsewhere so be it.
I understood what you meant in OP, VPI. I gotchu bruv
I'll be watching for that James Franklin HC introduction!
I'll say following our fan base on all the different message boards throughout this saga has been epic. The 247 threads had been non-stop entertainment. Got hyped over a plane from PA to Blacksburg earlier today on flight tracker, it was a single prop crop duster 😂. No fan base does a coaching search quite like VT.
You must have forgotten about Tennessee.
we don't do what they do though
I was wrong the last two days, but...
I'm starting to think that any announcement wouldn't come out at the beginning of the week.
Make an announcement Thursday and you can drive the CFB news cycle from Thursday night thru the weekend. Announce Monday and the pundits may move on to something else before the Saturday.
Tomorrow's the day! Or, maybe not......
Yeah when the smoke really started late last week I was hopeful that meant we would be savvy and announce at the end of the week so that it drove attention and discussion leading right into Gameday having a whole segment about it. Hopefully that can be the case this week
As a federal employee and a Hokie fan I start every day as "today's the day". I remain doubly disappointed.
👀👀
Sauce: theMattBoard
My only sauces are Bolognese and bechamel variants
edit: oh wait, we have a Guinness chocolate sauce we're petty proud of too
I like basic pan sauces also, butter based, mustard based, cream based.
What, no BBQ?
That's a shame.
That's Mrs MattBoard's territory. She handles most general cooking, BBQ, grilling, salad dressings, etc. while I cover mac and cheese, gravy, baking, confection and related fields.
Ha, that's almost the exact opposite of our kitchen split!
That's the opposite of my split, too...
The important thing, I think these days, is that there's a split.
Go on...
Guinness Chocolate Sauce
Put everything but the vanilla in a sauce pan and warm over low heat, whisking until it simmers. Turn off the heat and add your vanilla. Let cool.
Good on ice cream, to make adult chocolate milk, etc. If you want more intense chocolate flavor, add a teaspoon of espresso powder. Add more sugar if you want it sweeter, but I feel like less is more here.
Edit: Cocoa powder is hydrophobic, so you really have to make sure to heat/whisk it to get it all mixed in. Be patient, it will get there eventually.
Edit 2: formatting
If nothing else Franklin knows we have great sauces here in Hokieland!
I'm in a similar boat, but as a Working Capital fund, we're still working, until the bucket is empty. Leadership has been rather vague about when that would happen, and furlough letters would be distributed, along with who is going to be excepted and who is not. All we know is it's close, definitely in this month. "Any day now" has been a constant refrain in the office.
Our entire "office" is excepted. All work no pay. I thought they might at least let us telework like we did through 2020 and most of 2021 to save costs, but the best cost savings our management could suggest was ridesharing. I try not to think about it or at least laugh at it. I know I'll get paid eventually, but it's just such a stupid situation and there are those who weren't fortunate enough to have some money set aside for things like this.
Yeah my wife and I are fortunate to have enough set aside to ride this out for a while but I do worry for some of my younger coworkers as this keeps extending
We ended up really lucky with the timing. Moved into a new house at the end of June, and finally closed on the old house in mid-October. Paid off a couple of loans with the equity to bring monthlies down, and the rest is ready to drop onto the new mortgage to recast, but we're holding off on that. So we're down to mostly debt-free with a good chuck of change on reserve. Don't want to draw it down past the point where we'd have to pay PMI, but we can, if this thing drags out.
Yes, it does seem dumb for the government to require people to work, to not pay them, yet Congress and the Senate still get paid.
This seems like something that should be fixed before another government shutdown.
I believe an act was codified into law at the end of the last shutdown to ensure that furloughed federal employees get back-pay. However, a recent memo from the White House has suggested that the backpay may not be automatic and that congress still needs to vote on it which signals to me that there could be a legal battle over whether or not (certain?) federal employees will actually get their backpay. Something to keep an eye on for anyone who works for a federal agency. I think (hope?) that federal employees who have not been paid during this shutdown will get their pay but it's very far from guaranteed.
Maybe we just need to revise what a shutdown means.
I'm not saying you're wrong. There are lots of problems with our government that could use a lot of fixing. I'm just saying that there have been attempts to pay federal employees. Shutdowns are dumb. Our government is dumb. It probably gets close to the boundaries of CGs but I am of the opinion that we need major reforms across just about every aspect of our government. I think that the extremism we're seeing (both left and right) is a perfect illustration of just how broken our government is.
I am the one person excepted from my office and am tasked frequently to reach out to check on our furloughed personnel. Really drains my energy having people answer and tell me about all the fun things they are doing on "vacation" including one that took a two week trip to Italy. Meanwhile, I get to direct all our contractors across our seven primary missions. Fun times.
it's kind of sickening that federal employees are viewing this as a "vacation". My brother and his wife are both federal employees and they are stressing tf out over this. They definitely don't view it as a vacation and I'm sure they would be incensed to learn that some people do.
My wife is working full time. For no pay (at the moment).
She doesn't complain. But it doesn't mean I can't.
In years past when federal employees I know were furloughed, they were just going to the breweries multiple times a week and always texting me at noon like "hey want to grab a beer?" Lmao
Some federal employees I know do this when they're not furloughed too.
I was one of the civilian employees that had to work without pay during the Covid shutdowns and never got my backpay. My wife was forced to close her office and so we paid employees while we were forced closed. We are almost financially recovered from that.
I don't know about vacation, but if I end up getting furloughed, I've got a massive "Honey Do List" to work on with the new house. I'm just glad my wife makes more than me in a stable job (utilities).
Those like your brother and SIL are the ones I worry about, with both incomes wiped out. I hope they're able to take advantage of loan deferrals and whatever other support there is out there.
My wife got laid off back in March when a bunch of the VA contracts were terminated and her old company had to lay off like 50% of their corporate workforce. Thankfully she was lucky in this job market to find something new in about 2.5 months in a much more stable field (legal). It's been a roller coaster of a year for us to say the least.
It's frustrating, but not surprising. I'm furloughed and I view it as anything but a vacation since those are paid.. especially when the mortgage, daycare, bills, groceries, car payments, etc still need to be paid. Like I said above my wife and I are fortunate that we can ride it out for a while but those things add up fast.
I am trying to be productive every day and do some things around the house with the time, but that's mostly to keep from going stir crazy. I would much rather be doing my actual job that I really enjoy doing. I really feel for the people who are commuting every day to a job that they're not getting paid for. Just an all around bad situation.
They really aren't but most that I work with do say "Vacation" with the quotes and heavy /S. Its just simpler to deflect from the reality. The mental health aspects of this are terrible and mine are trying to make the best of it.
For any suffering financially, if you have a TSP, it has low interest loan options that are then payroll deducted over the agreed upon duration. Thats not one that gets shared by many HR people.
Please, do not, do NOT, set yourself on fire to keep deadlines. Let them slip, those responsible for this need to feel the impacts of their decisions.
At least that's what my sponsor was telling us back in the 2012 furloughs. Respected the hell out of them for that.
--Douglas Adams
I think we just naturally have PTSD caused by constant letdown. I'm choosing to believe he hasn't signed yet so he can continue to tamper. I hope I'm right.
Alright everyone, strap in...
My dad's friend's wife's hairdresser in Blacksburg cuts the hair of a current coach and their wife — and they're saying it's a done deal. So maybe we can all stop the collective handwringing and relax.
And no I didn't make that up.
Now that's some sauces!
...and this is why I TKP!
Good enough for me.
I'll still be tweeter searching "james franklin" every 20 minutes until an announcement though
You don't have to brag about your discipline and restraint.
well played gif sir. well played.
☹️ image appears to be broken for me
Ben Stein: "Thank you, Simone."
Strap in and strap on, here we go!
Agregating all the smoke, rumors, and self declared insiders it does sound like we have delivered on everything Franklin has asked for and put the offer in front of him on Monday. I feel like 48 hours is about the window he would have to make a decision before VT moves on. It does feel like the general tone is that this is going to happen so I have a feeling in my gut that says we here something today. If not then I think we can start talking about the next name on the list.
I personally hope it is Franklin because some of the demands he made are true it would force commitments to really bring us back to big boy football.
Good to hear from you.
Another to aggregate in:
Also, two different posters on 247 are saying the same thing.
Source: TSL (link for those who also subscribe over there)
Welcome back, and thanks for bringing fire when you arrived.
Dozerrrrrrrrrrr
This is the one sentence summary of the argument for james franklin to be the next VT Football coach
valid
So, here is what I am hearing...
James Franklin with either be the new head coach at VT or he won't be. I can't give up my #sauces, but they seem to be pretty confident with this take.
This
As one of the true Ancient Poasters of Hokie internet lore would say, it is done unless it is not.
But if he is 'Schrodinger's James Franklin' , he could be both simultaneously and we won't know til we open the box!
Who put James Franklin in a box? And are their holes? can he even breathe? Are we killing James Franklin?
Someone misunderstood the hiring process.
Everything in life is a 50/50 shot. It either happens or it doesn't!
As a criminal defense attorney, so much this.
lol.
How it's felt every day for the last week or so.
for the last 5,000 minutes
I love this movie and I love that line. I quote it almost every night.
"Good night Mrs. VPIhokieME. Good work. Sleep well, I'll most likely kiss you in the morning"
I have a shirt I wear when I'm on travel, especially in a group of friends. "Sleep well, I'll most likely kill you in the morning."
Found this interesting little tidbit....maybe nothing, maybe something. VT has two corporate jets, a Cessna Citation Excel, tail #N51VT, and a larger Cessna Citation Sovereign, tail #N80FW. The Sovereign flew to Peachtree Dekalb airport in Atlanta several days ago, and ADSB doesn't have any info about a flight leaving Atlanta, so it may be there for some other reason such as scheduled maintenance. However, N51VT made an interesting flight Roanoke to Blacksburg, earlier this afternoon. There was no correlating flight from Blacksburg to Roanoke beforehand. This is the part that I find interesting. On approach to Blacksburg, the plane made a slow pass to the north of the airport, just south of Lane, circled around to land in the northwest direction on runway 31. Again, maybe nothing but couple it with what I just saw on twitter/X....
Why would he travel for a physical though? I got a job in Chattanooga and took a drug test in Virginia Beach. Pretty sure if drug-tests-R-us can manage an email a halfway decent doctor's office could.
Agreed, that didn't make sense to me either in these days of electronic records, etc.
if a life insurance policy is part of the deal?
Could it be JF travelling with his daughter?
I keep hearing allusions to his daughter's health, but haven't heard what any details of her condition. Does she have a chronic problem/disabilty/etc?
Sickle cell disease
Thanks, didn't know that.
For what it's worth, I couldn't find any flights from anywhere in PA to Roanoke. So, like I said, maybe nothing.
I mean he may not even be in PA post firing or could travel north to NY/east to NJ/south to MD etc. Lots of options, especially if he doesn't want people to be on the scent of his next move
For all we know, he could be chilling with Pry at his house the last several days.
They have to negotiate the price so he can keep the tradition alive
Man, of all the letdowns in VT history, Franklin2VT falling apart would be the greatest let down yet.
I don't think it holds a flame to the 99 BCS championship game but whatever you say
I was thinking about in terms of recruiting, realignment, staffing, and in general things that travel through a rumor mill; not on the field stuff.
Would #VT2SEC rank #2 on the list?
I think Devyn Ford... To me, that was the moment that everything started going downhill for Fuente.
I don't think VT2SEC was a done deal, and I remember the fanbase being pretty split on it at the time. In hindsight, it was insanely stupid to pass it up (if we even had the opportunity), but I don't think (m)any people in 2010 foresaw the SEC (or the B10) separating themselves completely from the rest of the sport.
Any more of this and Drew Harris definitely won't come here.
The Ford thing was bad, but I think the downhill momentum started earlier than that. Tahj Capehart or maybe Cam Goode
Ricky Slade
lol what? This would be so far from a major letdown that it's not even funny. Franklin coming here would be great. Franklin not coming here would be fine. There are other coaches out there. Plenty of them. I'm sure VT can get a decent coach to come here. Maybe even someone better than Franklin. It won't be the end of the world if VT doesn't hire Franklin.
Not saying it would be the end of the world, just saying that, the way people (message boards, media members, etc) are talking about it, it's like it's almost a done deal. Like, sooo close to the finish line.
Said it the other day, but this is likely the most pivotal moment in VT Football history since Frank almost went to UNC in 2000. This could have massive ramifications for the future of the program, however it shakes out.
you could argue that hiring Pry instead of Elko was that moment for us. We'd be on a completely different trajectory now if we had hired Elko - even with him leaving for A&M we'd be in a much better spot than we find ourselves now
I'm not convinced of that. We could have been Duke, or we could have been Tennessee after Lane left them after one year. I don't think one year with Elko changes much.
I agree here. It seems Elko was extremely interested in this job, but for whatever reason Whit was not interested in taking the call. Even if we had hired Elko, I think it still would have been under the old Whit mentality with funding for the program. "Weights weigh the same"
However this Franklin decision shakes out, I think this has actively forced VT leadership to commit to far more resources for the program if they want to compete at a high level. I think if we get this deal with Franklin done, the details of the contract may shock the entire college football landscape. Donor interest would likely be sky high. Would send a huge signal that VT is for real.
So in short, Elko may have gotten us a year or two of better results, but it wouldn't have shaken the foundation of the program like this search and takeover of VT athletics has achieved, IMO.
I think I agree with this... I don't think Franklin is the only coach who could make VT successful, but I think VT has to nail this hire.
EXACTLY!. Its why not hiring him wouldn't be a huge letdown....unless...
...this doesn't happen. I agree that VT needs to nail this hire. I don't agree that Franklin is the only coach for VT to "nail this hire". But if we end up hiring Shannon Dawson then I think we'd be pickle-f*ed.
The general feeling, I sense, is that if we hire Franklin now we'll know we nailed the hire and feel good going into 2026. If we hire some up-and-comer G5 coach like Helton, Huff, Chesney, etc. we will probably be split on whether or not we nailed the hire but we won't really know for another year or so. If we hire anyone none of us has ever heard of before then we might know that we absolutely didn't nail the hire (though, in fairness, we likely wouldn't know for a year or so).
It's unlikely, but (similar to Fuente), if we hire Franklin and he doesn't work out then we'll feel like we nailed the hire only to find out in a few years that we absolutely didn't. That would be super sucky.
Maybe they'll announce on GameDay since we have a bye this week
And no one will get to see it due to the Disney/YouTube TV dispute. Lol
That would be the most VT thing ever. Have this great strategy to announce on Gameday only for no one to be able to actually see it lol
I'm sure we can get some time on Raycom or Jefferson Pilot
Raycom Sports Pregame Show, sponsored by Bojangles. Live from Greensboro!
F*ck disney...
with a cactus...
Saguaro...
respectfully
Having lived in AZ, I'd much rather deal with a Saguaro than those damn Cholla cactus with the detachable arms with barbed hooks. Stumbled home from the bars quite a few times and bumped into mine... not fun at all.
As a one time resident of AZ who ditched off his mountain bike into one, I agree with this message 100%. Fucking hate that plant with a passion.
Dead on! The Cholla is the nastiest damn plant in the desert. Always have to warn visitors not to touch the fuzzy looking cactus. Always carry pliers when out on the trails
When using said cactus in the context as above, it's a Saguaro for the sheer size of the plant...
Cactus, sauces....to paraphrase from the Blues Brothers..."These threads have EVERYTHING!" Never change TKP!
Does all this media attention get us more of those ACC $$$'s in the latest contract revision? /s
Maybe, if one of the later games gets us a better timeslot because the broadcaster wants to leverage the new face and new resources he'll have to tell a compelling story.
I for one can't wait to do this all over again for the impending DC and OC hirings.
Lol, and since they're all likely still coaching, nothing will be announced for at least a month!
Thank God for bball!
I opened this thread and it had like 80 comments.
Come for the recipes on sauces, stay for the legality of federal shutdown backpay. This is classic TKP and I love it.
I guess since we suck this qualifies as off season. At least we can't lose again this week.
I almost started a new thread titled "Sauces 👀" just for recipes but decided that might break some people
I laughed at this...and here for all the sauces
I probably need to apologize for derailing the Franklin discussion, but I do appreciate the TKP community and their willingness to discuss just about anything.
Apologies for a derailed thread? Nonsense, you deserve applause
My real worry is overpaying for Franklin and crippling the program.
I agree - We can attract lots of good coaches with the resources we are willing to expend and the spending on the rest of the AD/football program will elevate the floor of whoever we hire.
If we don't take a shot now then when should we?
He certainly made some money.
I think the issue is getting the buyout right. If salary is enormous, we'll recover if it goes south. If we have a stupid buyout, that will burn us.
Regardless, I think the risk of not landing a good coach is greater than the risk of overpaying Franklin. We've had a decade of mediocrity across three staffs, while our conference is trending further into mediocrity... that signals 'distressed asset' to the coaching market. Need to turn that around asap.
Are you insinuating that we are not crippled now?
Today's price ain't yesterday's price.
We should pay the going rate for a big time coach, otherwise what's the point of this new investment in athletics.
Well then you are in luck because we overpaid Pry and crippled the program 4 years ago!
I agree that we overpaid Pry. I have said it before South Carolina hiring Shane did it right. Intro contract, re-evaluate after 2 years, and again after another 2 years.
CC over on TSL just posted an article, Chaos is a Ladder, which has a lot of good stuff in it. I'm not going to copy/paste it all, because it's a subscription article, but I'll put a couple paragraphs here that have some information that we all should hear, bolding what IM(ns)HO is the biggest part. (Mods, delete or truncate if you feel I pasted too much from the article.)
It sounds like whatever we end up offering him, or the eventual coach, it won't be crippling the program.
Note the plural here for all those stressed that we're serially pursuing coach candidates.
I'm sure he's not the only agent we're talking to but Sexton likely represents several coaches so by impressing him you could impress several candidates by association
Problem is, I'd guess that the figures that impress Franklin end up biting us in the ass if he ends up saying no. Plan B, C etc, if a Sexton client, would probably be aware of what we'd commit for Franklin and get butthurt if (when) we don't throw similar resources at a less exciting candidate. If Sexton knows we have X dollars to afford Franklin, he can overinflate the ask for a backup option and play hardball.
I think Plans B, C ,D etc would likely have the self awareness to realize they didnt have the same appeal or resume as Plan A.
I agree, my point was if they're represented by the same agent, HE will be the problem.
Unfortunately, you are both right.
Pass the kool aid, I'm ready to head to the afterlife.
My main takeaway from this is we've been willfully sucking at football for a long time. All we had to do was choose to spend the money necessary to win, but we chose to become a bottom feeder instead.
Heads need to roll in the athletic department for the malpractice committed over the past couple decades. Like, every single head. They all have to go.
Which is why I think it's a crime that Whit is still hanging around. Move on. It's painfully obvious he wasn't getting the most out of VT athletics and was instead just going through the same old motions.
Amazing what happens when you actually try to raise money and generate excitement by going after a high-profile candidate pool.
The "high-profile camdidate pool" has hit a real high this season, so that changes this a touch, but the main message seems accurate.
All this Franklin flirtation makes me feel like we're being Petty'ed at Tots circa 2006-07.
Nah. Today, for sure.
DAY 23!!! GIVE IT UP FOR DAY 23!!!!!
A coworker is posting this gif every day on our internal Mattermost, but he's up to day 37 (of the shutdown).
The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to hire James Franklin!
Didn't I do this yesterday?
No head coach
Government isn't open
This whole situation is giving Tavien pls vibes for those who recall
Oh god, rough times. And man did we need a rb that year
Unfortunately, I do. One in a long line of recruiting gut punches that just seemed like they were never going to end.
Whether with Franklin or someone else considered "impressive," let's hope this turns out better than that did.
To me, starting to get the feeling Franklin's camp could be holding out for a bigger brand opening (FSU, maybe even Clemson). I think those are long shots to open this year, but I also wonder if he might just decide to do a year in TV and test his value in next year's market. There's not a ton of sense in holding out unless you're waiting on another opening, want more money (can't imagine it's that after what's been rumored we have put on the table), or just aren't convinced it's the right spot for you.
With the amount of resources we have stepped up and provided finally, I think we have likely gotten the attention of a lot of quality candidates. Even if Franklin doesn't accept, I think we will land with a really good coach - maybe someone we haven't even thought of yet.
I get wanting to do some behind the scenes recruiting and vetting for players and staff while you're still technically unemployed, but Franklin's camp has likely had several weeks to do so now since I'm sure VT has been talking with him and his agent for a while now. You're going to miss the boat on potentially a monumental recruiting weekend for our final home game against Miami if it drags out too much longer.
In short, if this keeps dragging out day by day, I think we don't hear anything until around Thanksgiving at the earliest, and it's most likely not going to be Franklin at that point.
Today for sure. Source: trust me bro.
He definitely isn't going to another P5 school that could pay him more and provide more NIL. Because after all, who doesn't like working harder for less pay? Trust me bro.
Actually, doing the hot ones challenge is quite fun. My son and I did it a couple of years ago during a holiday family get together, while the rest of the family watched, cheered and laughed. We even did the whole interview question bit. It was a blast, until it wasn't... You can make it through all the sauces, the last three are just liquid pain, but it's not that hard. Even when you slather the wings in each sauce. Yeah you sweat, your head tingles and you have mild hallucinations, but it's all good fun. What is not fun is literally the pain you can feel burning a hole in your stomach for the next two days.
My wife got me one of their season lineups a few years back. IMO, the only sauce that truly utterly sucks is The Bomb. Its only flavor is pain. There was only 1 after it in my batch, but even though I think it was supposed to be significantly hotter, it was far more enjoyable to eat.
Will echo rabidgobbler here, if anyone is a hot sauce fan, grab one of the lineups from heatonist. Its worth it.
The Bomb is intentionally made with a chili oil extract so it sticks around on your tongue for as long as possible. It's designed to get the reaction from guests that Hot Ones is known for.
The Bomb is more of an extract than a sauce, so it seems much hotter than its scoville rating.
As a watcher of many, many episodes, I've come to the conclusion that that is one hot sauce that I will never try. Have no interest. I've done the Last Dab: Apollo, and just recently purchased Last Dab: Thermageddon (haven't had a chance to try it yet), but I will never do The Bomb.
Did a 6/7 wing hot ones lineup during covid, even got the last one (Last Dab: Apollo) on video. I think I linked it in my AMA.
I started at the bottom and working backwards, came to "The Bomb" as a sauce and thought we were doing information leaks.
Totally agree on the bomb. Liquid pain and no flavor. Last dab is hot as hell but actually has flavor. Quite a few of the sauces are actually really good.
I was wrong the past three days. Today is the day, for sure.
To the folks hiring our coach:
👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 skippypbm, Little Bobby Tables, ltrepeter2000, and others: Upload images and GIFs to imgur, then link them. Otherwise they will not display on the site because whatever the fuck y.yarn.co is, it's running a human captcha check from Cloudflare. Use imgur or giphy. Thanks.
interesting they all display for me
They are for me too-once in awhile they don't but usually they do. When they don't, I just choose a different, similar one.
It's the site you're using, not the gifs themselves. You have to host on either Imgur or Giphy.
Imgur is annoying, because sometimes they save gifs as mp4 files, and when you right click for the direct link, you then have to manipulate the extension. But will do, sir.
Yarn.com seems to be a source for gifs and memes from movies and tv shows. At least, when I get an obscure reference from a movie and search it, more often than not, if I can find a result, it's from there.
Yeah, that is annoying about Imgur and good point it's complicated for others to figure out. I'd go with Giphy then. Every other image hosting service out there that I know of does some sort of hot linking protection though.
I would use giphy from home, but it's blocked at work. When I look for a gif, I always exclude it, because they're usually a good percentage of google results, and I can never end up using them. (Ex: "hot emma watson gif -giphy")
Always trade offs, I guess. /shrug
Is it just me or has everyone else started seeing a lot more cloudflare captchas on so many more websites. I feel like I am regularly seeing redirects to cloudflare before going back to the site I requested.
I don't know what language you're speaking, but here on TKP, we speak American!
It's because of all the AI bots scraping content to train LLMs.
Man, can't even GIF freely anymore. What is the world coming to?
GIF free or die hard!
Only a few more posts on this thread until the LLMs scrape enough to state Franklin2VT as fact
Other websites? There are more?
That's a shame cuz Yarn is like an infinite encyclopedia of every gif you could possibly ever imagine. If you get that working, we would be eternally grateful.
There's not really a fix, you have to simply re-host the gif on either giphy or Imgur.
Come on Joe, think how rich you would be if you figured out how LLMs could illegally access more data. You'd be able to work on TKP while sitting on a stack of bennies
Now you're thinking.
I'll make sure I do that for yarn from here on out.
I should have started an office pool on which day we get a new coach. But unfortunately I'm an only employee. I guess I'd be guaranteed to win...and lose.
(Net Loss) = (Net Gain) = $0 for all possible outcomes.
Seems this would be an exercise in futility, but it could be hilarious as you progress from day to day.
So....the winner gets an all-expenses paid vacation?
Probably, but it's paid for by the loser.
TSL basically reporting on the podcast that Jimmy (and therefore Franklin) are basically trying to extort Tech, after we've upped the offer multiple times to meet their demands. They're talking as if the current offer is in the 8 figures.
I know TSL has been known to pass off other's reporting or rumors as their own insider info but this appears to be a huge confirmation
I've seen in the $11-12MM range annually, close to $100MM in total compensation and $12-14MM NIL budget have been put on the table. If they're not biting at that, at some point I don't think Franklin is serious about coming here. But I think a lot of others potentially would be.
The problem is Sexton represents nearly 3/4ths of all major college coaches.
I seriously think as CC on TSL has alluded to, if we floated these huge numbers out of nowhere and legitimately shocked agents and the industry on what VT is actually capable of given the right people making the shots. So I wonder if Sexton/Franklin are trying to set the market, saying holy crap VT of all places just offered this, trying to see if elite programs can go even higher.
And Sexton I've read kind of wants to play King somewhat and be the decider of who goes where. Corruption and greed at their finest.
Sexton is the only person betting these BetOnline lines as his side hustle. He leaks enough for a line to move then dumps money into an underdog. Quite the side hustle.
You know that dude is making all kinds of money using inside information. Dude is a crook.
he's definitely cornered the entire market, not sure how it possibly get's shaken up at this point he's got so much leverage there's no real way for other agents to really be successful.
I don't think Sexton is Heupel's agent, and definitely he is not Lincoln Riley's agent, for two examples.
the problem is, jimmy sexton probably represents all our other candidates...anyone know if he also represents helton, huff, chesney, etc...?
From quick googling:
Chesney - Sexton
Helton - Sexton
Huff - Sexton
Bro
This seems criminal. If we don't get Franklin we should sue him (edit: Sexton)
I think Franklin would be a good hire. I don't think he'll come here for a reasonable price. I DO NOT want VT to OVERPAY for him. I genuinely hope that we reach one of two outcomes: 1) We get Franklin at around 8-9 million MAX. 2) We hire Chesney for 6ish but have the intent on paying him what he's worth if he knocks it out of the park. If VT is seriously throwing around 8 digit salary figures for a HC that means we're willing to pay money for big boy football and that's a good thing. But we shouldn't blow our whole wad on Franklin, IMO.
someone mentioned yesterday that on TSL they saw this: "Things have quieted down over the last couple of days, which is probably a good thing"
But now they're saying it's basically extortion?
I have no idea how to actually feel lol
Sooner or later there will be an announcement. If Sexton is playing the market and just driving the price up, I really hope we tell Franklin that it cost him the job at this point. No college football coach is worth 8 figures a year.
Franklin is in a win-win scenario right now. Scenario 1) he gets everything he wants from us.
Scenario 2) There's been a lot of speculation that he might be dragging this out to see if FSU opens up. If that's what he's waiting for and he's using us as leverage to force their hand but it doesn't end up opening because they can't afford Norvell's buyout, then he can always flex to just doing tv and satisfying his buyout condition by saying he made a serious effort to get a job with VT and it didn't work out and just wait for FSU (or somewhere else) to open next year.
If they pay $11 million for James Franklin, they are dumber than I thought they were.
If they pay over 8 there is something wrong.
$8MM isn't likely to get you top 30-40 paid coaching status in this new market.
I would not consider James Franklin a top 30-40 coach, even though he has elevated status because he was part of a strong program that placed top of the line assistants repeatedly with him defensively.
Les Miles was a garbage coach who won a natty. You have to match the situation to the demonstrated skill set. If they pay Franklin that money, they are not going to have the dollars to bring in a Tom Allen/Manny Diaz/Larry Johnson type of assistants.
That's the problem with not knowing the full terms of the deal he has been offered. From what I gathered, VT has met all of his asks. I would assume it's an enticing assistant coach pool as well, but we don't know. But I do agree if we pay top dollar for Franklin with no room for a good staff, that's going to be disappointing. The appeal with Franklin is recruiting first and foremost, and then you need to have a very strong staff around him.
We'll see how it all shakes out, but if VT has met every ask, I don't see what more he needs. He either wants to coach at VT or he doesn't. I'm starting to wonder if the market for him just wasn't what he or his agent anticipated, and we came in with a very unexpected top-dollar offer which no one else is able or willing to top at the moment. I also don't think FSU will open this year, nor do I think they could afford the buyouts for Norvell and his staff and a comparable deal for Franklin and his staff. I'm starting to wonder the longer this drags out if Franklin will just do TV for a year and wait it out for next year's cycle.
I am curious who else VT is considering/pursuing at this point. With the type of numbers floating around, we could land some very big fish if they're willing to bite.
I'm willing to bet the farm that part of his ask includes significant dollars for top-flight coordinators/assistant coaches.
Oh I do too. I think we have met every ask. I just think he's not sure if VT is big enough for him.
And that he has or is having conversations with his preferred assistants to set that bar.
I feel like that's really downplaying his record at Vandy. He's coached 30% of Vandy's bowl games and before he arrived the last time Vandy won 9 games was 1915. He did it back to back years there. He might have done a little bit less than more at Penn State, but I think he's shown he can also do more with less.
You could argue that Vandy was one of the 5 worst Power 5 programs before he got there. The success they are having recently is absolutely on the foundation he built.
A decade later? I'm sorry but that is not true at all. The success they are having is from the New Mexico State transfers Jerry Kill brought with him
💯
I don't really care what it costs to have one of the top paid coaches as long as we have the money for staff and a team still.
Franklin with no one around him certainly isn't worth 10MM. If we've struck some gold vein and have enough to also allow him to hand pick some coordinators and NIL support...then whatever pay the man.
What helps with a guy like Franklin I think his is access to top coordinators and coaches that would work with him. I think that is one of the biggest values of the top coaches.
How much are we willing to pay for us to have him, plus how much extra are we willing to pay to make sure nobody else does?
They've mismanaged it the whole way. I wouldn't expect anything other than overpaying and locking ourselves into a contract with a huge buyout for a coach that ends up not working
Based on what? Once again, the vast majority of information in these threads is rampant speculation
I don't know how anyone could possibly know if this is true or not.
This would suck - and it's one reason I would consider paying Franklin more than 8-9 million to come here to be a low value proposition. I don't know for sure if there are better coaches out there but there are absolutely better value options out there. Possibly both. Chesney might end up being a better coach than Franklin. Question is, will we pay to find out?
We've officially reached ESPN talking-head status on TKP where we create a narrative, push it as fact, and then overreact to that narrative down the line.
So Stephen A Smith
I mean its First Take in general, more than just SAS
yeah true, but he's the poster child. and there's Sackafee being so over the top with everything
My favorite is when they release some kind of player or team ranking by one of the talking heads in the morning with a scorching hot take in it, and by the end of the day it becomes a major talking point throughout the network on the "controversy" around that player or team.
At least it took us 600 comments, ESPN opens with that strategy
It's exactly what we did with Pry so not exactly a narrative I have to create. Now TSL is talking about us spending 8 figures on a coach who basically only recruits, so yeah it's not a stretch at all
I hope we include the Penn State offset language in whatever contract we write for the next coach.
Rumor has it that USC is exploring options about getting rid of Lincoln Riley. If so, expect that to significantly delay any Franklin decision.
Orrrr, plot twist: VT offers Lincoln Riley (not represented by Sexton) a similar deal to Franklin, and tells Sexton to piss off.
I would not be opposed to Lincoln Riley as head coach.
Russillo made mention of Franklin to VT in his latest pod. He tends to keep company with folks that actually know what they are talking about fwiw
At this rate we are going to need a part 2 to this thread.
I'm surprised it hasn't happened already
I think there's a fair to reasonable chance we'll still be talking about hiring Franklin a year from now
Drew Harris has entered the chat
I have no problem with VT paying top dollar for a premium headcoach, coordinators, and staff.
But I'm really hoping that we don't arrive at a top dollar package with Franklin, and then hand it off for a less than premium coaching package.
I'm really hoping we come out of this with what we're all hoping to get.
If we pay what is for us blue chip money, I'd like to see a blue chip staff. Most importantly, I'd like to see coordinators and a head coach who can coach and recruit, and overall run a high quality organization.
Mostly we have to be in the top handful of ACC teams, beat UVa every year, win the games we're supposed to win, and maybe win some we're not.
I just can't imagine the money for coordinators isn't a part of the discussion.
I mean if Franklin gets every cent he can from us for himself but leaves no room for money for top-notch coordinators he's painting himself into a corner.
We have to have said if you want X amount for coordinators than this is the top salary we can afford.
But maybe we have donors ponying up if they know it will land Franklin and good coordinators.
It has to be part of the discussion, and I'm sure Franklin knows this.
Don't know how to post photos from my phone but here's the link.
https://imgur.com/a/q9RhvLM
Buddy sent me a screen shot from TX A&M message board that said
Good stuff. I'm adding this to the new thread.
At this point, I'm thinking if it is going to happen, it happens later today or tomorrow morning so it can be THE story for Gameday.
Although, from the screenshot link above, if it is truly coming down to nothing more than a bidding war between us and Arkansas, I don't like our odds
If the Arkansas boosters are actually aligned we have no chance to win a bidding war (nor do I want to pay) We'd pretty much be betting on our contract structure and the allure of Blacksburg and an easier path to perceived success.
If he's really keen on winning a championship, I don't see how that happens at Arkansas.
The path to him ruining his image is probably a lot more likely than a champ run at Arkansas
I swear I've never met that woman.
The shutdown fullcasts Hawgronomicon patreon episode provides 2 hours of evidence that supports your point.
Yep, I guess I simplified it in my comment. If the decision is going to be solely on money (i.e. bidding war) it's gotta be Arkansas
If he is considering path to success, likelihood of not being run out of town for unreasonable expectations, and a whole host of other variables, I like our odds
And this is going to be the case at many P4 schools, most definitely at P2 schools. It is why Franklin is a good fit for us because the potential bidders from the P2 won't want him (in most cases, Arkansas is an outlier) because of their insane expectations (a la Penn State).
Even with the enhanced funding that has been discussed ad nauseum, we cannot keep up with the TV money in the P2. In the P4 we are better equipped, but only to a point. For VT, Franklin represents P2 value at a P4 price (2025 P4 prices which are stupidly higher than all previous years)
Locking this up since we have a pt 2 The Squeakquel thread