ND seeking $75m tv rights deal for football to remain independent
Notre Dame would remain independent if it can earn at least $75 million annually in media rights revenue from current broadcast partner NBC, sources told CBS Sports. The Fighting Irish's deal with the network is set to expire in 2025.
For NBC to feel comfortable raising Notre Dame's valuation to such a level, it is seeking "shoulder programming" (in this case, games played before and/or after Notre Dame's contests) from a Power Five conference to enhance its college football coverage.
When such a move had been speculated previously, the Big Ten was the conference mentioned most often as a target. However, the Big 12 has emerged as a strong option to fill NBC's shoulder programming needs.
Emphasis mine.
Should this go through, ND will be making substantially more money per year than any ACC school and there would be no hope of them ever joining the conference. Even moreso than that, it would be interesting to see if such a partnership with the Big 12 would violate the nature of the ACC Grant of Rights which says that ND must join the ACC if they were to affiliate with a conference in football.
Definitely curious, and definitely worth keeping your eye on. Such a move very well could hasten the dissolution of the ACC as a whole, as it would eliminate any remaining feasible path to remain financially competitive with the SEC and BigTen.
Comments
I can't see NBC offering that at all for 6 games a year. Kinda feels like Notre Dame publicly pandering to the portion of their fan base that only wants to be independent, so they can say that they tried to remain independent.
Even if it's them throwing out a high offer to start negotiations, really anything lower will still put them behind the B1G and SEC. Independence can only mean so much that I can't see that being worth more than the $25 million a year deficit they would have compared to those conferences, especially if independence keeps blocking them from national championships.
Neither can NBC, thus the importance of the "shoulder" games. What NBC is looking for is programming before and/or after the Notre Dame game to air.
They've repeatedly stated that their independence is worth more than the money they could get from joining a conference. If they're making $75 million a year, they may decide their independence is worth the $25 million annual deficit from not joining the B1G.
Ah, now there's the rub. ND's independent status may well hinge on changes to the national playoff structure. I think if the playoff expands in the near future, they stay put.
That deficit is only if they somehow get that $75mm/year (which they very likely won't). And the $25mm deficit will only keep growing. If for some reason they can get that massive deal, it would likely be for a very long term to stave off any other negotiations as these deals keep growing. That deficit won't be only $25mm for so long either. Their independence can't be worth that. Especially now that they could join the B1G and keep all of their rivals if they could get out of the ACC grant of rights. That could easily be worth the millions it will cost in lowers.
They're trying to resist joining the Borg.
But, as we all know, resistance is futile.
If ND gets $75m from NBC to remain independent, their deficit will be closer to $10m than $25m because they still get an equal share of the non-football tv revenue from the ACC, which in 2019-20 got them $10.8m.
This right here. I honestly believe they are trying to wheel and deal and get enough revenue from NBC, the ACC deal, and Big 12 shoulder content to remain independent but have a payout on par with the P2. This is the way ND operates.
I don't blame them. I'd do the same thing if I were them.
It's every Leprechaun for themself in this world.
That makes more sense. That will give them more wiggle room to accept lower deal that will still close the gap from the B1G and SEC.
I just feel like independence will mean even less when they can't play any of their rivals that are in the B1G consistently. With the size of the conference, every rival they have won't have space to schedule ND every year.
This is exactly the sentiment on the Reddit thread about this. Lots of people with ND flair saying its just posturing so they can say "We tried to remain independent!"
FTFY - the reality is, ND collects sooooo much money through donations that they can remain independent and remain competitive. They probably need a bump in TV revenue - current reports are that they get about $15m from NBC and $10m from the ACC, but if they can get that combined number to $50m, they'll be fine.
Independence has literally never blocked ND from a national championship, and unless the new playoff does something to exclude them, I don't think that will ever be the case.
I expect the ACC lawyers will be all over that.
The GOR only requires a team to payout 3x their share of revenue, fFor ND that's less than $33 mil. I bet they can come up with that and be free.
ACC should seek an exemption from ESPN to place their games on CBS in the time slot(s). This would also increase ACC exposure.
Alternatively, ACC teams should individually offer to sign a deal to play Big 12 teams in this slot(s), just thinking outside the box. That would probably necessitate road games across the board due to GOR. I'd be fine with VT playing at 1 Big 12 team per season.
Aren't we supposed to be freeing out the $EC and B1G anyway? So this works with that protocol.
Absolutely.
Keeps the association with ND intact, gives the ACC exposure, and gets the ACC some more cash (which ESPN should want).
The ACC needs to be thinking outside the box. Why would this be the Big 12 instead of the ACC?
My theory: NBC/ND reached out to the ACC to pitch this "shoulder" idea and Jim Phillips wasn't interested. So then the BigXII came to the table and said, I'm interested, tell me more!
ACC leadership has been dreadfully boring and uninspired for a long time.
I doubt Jim Phillips wasn't interested. It may be because they didn't have any content to facilitate the deal, since ESPN or regional affiliates own the rights to all of the ACC home games.
ACC playing road games to Big XII for shoulder games, now that's a pretty good idea, since we don't have any home games to offer.
if Jim Phillips truly was looking for "creative" ways to bump revenue, he'd be working with NBC/ND to work out a deal that benefits the ACC in some way. Giving up because it looks too hard to figure out is the ACC way, I guess.
How would this deal benefit ND? Why would ESPN let us do this?
I would hope if true the ACC kicks ND's other sports to the curb. ND wants to have their cake and eat it too. They want a payout on par with the SEC and B1G but also want to keep their precious independence. They think they can use their sweetheart deal with the ACC and now strike up another deal with the Big 12 to do it.
The ACC should just vote ND out of the conference. Where are they going to park their other sports? The B1G won't allow it unless they go all in, same with pretty much any conference. The tensions are already mounting as there were reports during ACC winter meetings from ADs and coaches that Jack Swarbrick (ND AD) was colluding with the SEC on a 12-team playoff model and was trying to "swindle" the ACC into voting on it. The league flat out said no. Also tensions from ND being allowed to sit in on all these realignment conference calls but aren't even a member in football, thus making them privy to everything that's going on.
ND is never going to join the ACC fully. If they're going around trying to strike up another deal, they should just get the boot and send them scrambling. I would imagine there are votes for that right now.
It's a marriage of convenience, and they can stay until they leave.
We like playing them, and we get some benefit of them being in our conference.
Yeah, it's a sweetheart deal, but she's a sweetheart.
For now.
In all likelihood, ND being tied to the ACC in all other sports right now is all that is keeping the Irish from joining the Big Ten today.
We kick them out, they immediately join the Big Ten. And then the schools in the ACC can argue that the makeup of the conference is fundamentally different from what it was when the GoR was signed, very well could get it voided and that would be the end of the conference.
I think ND really does want to maintain independence and doesn't want to join the Big Ten. There have been reports that they don't like the overwhelming number of large state schools in the B1G and like the east coast exposure the ACC agreement affords them while maintaining a national presence in football. The ACC deal gives them tons of leverage and makes them a major player, because they can try and negotiate other deals knowing their other sports have a home and we will partially subsidize their payout. It won't happen, but it would be fun to watch them scramble if the ACC decided to give them the boot. No other conference would give them that sweetheart deal, and they would be forced to either park their other sports in the Big East or finally join a conference fully in all sports.
Believe it or not, BC and the Boston Irish Catholics are probably part of the reason why ND even agreed to join us for the other sports.
You might be onto something here so I'm going to run with it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_large_Irish-Ameri...
Boston, Massachusetts 22.8%[1] Boston College, already have them
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 16.2% Pitt, already have them
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 14.2%[2] No interesting schools in Philly
Louisville, Kentucky 13.2% Louisville, already have them
Portland, Oregon 11.9% [3] OREGON, you say?
Seattle, Washington 11.65% [4] WASHINGTON, you say?
Buffalo, New York 11.23% Syracuse, already have them
That's everyone over 10%
Why is the Big 12 the next best TV partner? Looks like the Pac12 would be a much better TV partner, and with their network already in the dumpster, why wouldn't they be looking for a new partner? ND/Stanford would be a 100% immediate draw. The ACC already has 4 of these towns. Two Oregons and two Washingtons (granted that each 'University of...' are each FAR more valuable than the 'State U' schools)... ? Sounds like a winner.
If the GOR is the reason why we can't be involved in this, then how can we force renegotiation? Does adding another school help us?
If so, add Navy. No interesting schools in Irish-heavy Philly? Annapolis is a two hour drive away. And if it gets us an opportunity to help ND and the Pac get a new TV contract with NBC, and allows us to break the GOR and the TV deal with ESPN and possibly jump to NBC, then... wins all around?
What am I missing? Probably a lot, I don't understand sh!t about this.
Also side note. If they are trying to sandwich games before and after ND games, that will forever lock ND into the mid afternoon time slot.
Good for them. Then their fans can watch while eating dinner at 430
Listening to Jim Phillips open ACC Kickoff, sounds like a captain on a sinking ship.
This tells me Notre Dame is gone. That $75 mil is to help pay off any monies owed to the ACC. The B1G will likely help pay it off as well.
Yeah listening a bit now too. He acknowledged unequal revenue sharing is on the table and just gave another threat with the GoR that he thinks it holds, citing steep penalties. We are officially being held hostage on a sinking ship.
This is actually sad. Waxing poetic about the traditional student athlete experience, then acknowledged concerns the ACC is "getting lapped." Geez
We should absolutely not be on board with unequal revenue sharing. Should that pass, its fundamentally different from the GoR that was originally agreed upon and we should vote 'no'. It would give us an exit opportunity where we might be able to legally skirt the penalties for leaving.
Can you imagine how awful and political that would get? That would likely tear the conference apart. This has shades of the old Big East all over again.
Its a death sentence. The bad schools get horribly underfunded and end up no better than a G5 program which drags the conference down as a whole. And the schools that get more money will still only get a fraction of the SEC and Big Ten payouts.
I think unequal revenue sharing would break the GoR and any competent lawyer could make that point.
Notre Dame wouldn't be partnering with the Big 12. NBC would be partnering with the Big 12, so it wouldn't have any impact on Notre Dame's agreement with the ACC.
Yeah, I feel like a few people have misread what was being said.
NBC is looking for other sports content to go around ND games on Saturdays. They will feel better about paying $75M to ND if they have other content that they can use to average their costs.
For example -- if NBC pays $75M for ND, and then $55M for a Big 12 package, then they are spending $130M for games from 13 schools (give or take, it's really hard to keep track of how many teams are in the Big 12 in a given year during this decade). So the NBC beancounters can say that they're only spending an average of $10M per team.
So NBC is saying out loud that they're looking for a conference to subsidize their ND contract. Neat.
So they think they can get $75 million a year for essentially 9 games a year ($7.5-8.3MM per game) with the current ACC split. Seems like a big ask considering one of those have is almost always going to be Navy. I will give ND credit in their scheduling, but they also have a high number of games against Purdue and Indiana, which is not likely to grab eyeballs. Their future schedule is surprisingly sparse 4 years from now, like they have openings in case they need to fit a 9 game conference schedule in.
ND is "on the hook" until 2036 ACC GOR deal ends to join the ACC in football but there are a lot of caveats to that and options to pay out of that. Also changes if the current schools in ACC defect to other conferences.
The ACC's only sliver of hope in Swofford's idiotic offer to ND was that the Championship or now a Playoff would be without any at-large bids that would effectively force them to join a conference. But that was blocked previously with the Championship format and again just recently with the Playoff format.
ND can easily absorb the loss of TV rights revenue if they want to but why do they need to when they can get what they want? In this new demand for 75M they are seeking to level near what they could make in B1G. IF BIG12 helps by offering CBS the expanded programming they want then ND will ride out its ACC commitment and stay independent. If BIG12 doesn't go for it then ND will defect to B1G and pay ACC out. Either way, ND not joining ACC.
ND was never joining the ACC. It was a bad deal for the ACC and it was made worse by the Playoff committee not requiring a conference championship win as a prerequisite for making the playoff. If it was explicitly clear that a team would have to win their conference in order to earn a spot in the playoff then MAYBE ND joins as a full member. But even then, with how terrible the ACC deal was, it would make sense for ND to weigh other options and pull out of the ACC altogether to join another conference as a full member
Preaching to the choir bud.
I said all of this like 3 or 4 years ago and peeps acted like we had them under lock and key. welcome to the reality that has always been there.
I don't see them joining the ACC, but I've never heard a convincing argument that it's a bad deal for the ACC.
If you think of it as transactional, how is the ACC worse off?
Surely ND pulls it's weight.
I admit that I don't know the details of the deal. But we all know Football is king and we got all of ND's other sports but they remained an independent for football. I don't know if there was some promise that we might pull ND in as a full member as part of the deal but ND was clearly never going to join the ACC for football. I don't see how the ACC really benefits - we get 5 match-ups annually against ND which might bring in some extra revenue that the league has to share with ND? Does ND have to share any of their NBC revenue with the ACC? It seemed like a great deal for ND but I don't see how the ACC benefits.
It is a good deal for the ACC. Every year there are ND games on the ACCN. No way Comcast Carries ACCN without ND
sorry, but this is absurd.
Any deal that needed an independent team to actually make ESPN interested in ACC rights is a bad deal for the ACC. On it's face the deal proved that ACC schools are valued less than the independent and other conference channels, which results in almost no bargaining power. Not to mention every school in the ACC had to give up their third tier rights for ESPN to make that deal.
It was a shit deal, it remains a shit deal.
ND is a parasite. They joined to take without giving us anything of substance. They are fully content watching the ACC implode because they have no intent of ever joining us full time, just like they did with the Big East. You are 100% correct, it was a shit deal at the time and remains a shit deal today. In fact, the tease that they might one day join us in football being the lynchpin that holds GoR together might actually make it more of a shit deal today than it was when it was originally signed, especially if they get their big payday to remain independent like the OP article infers.
They joined to take without giving us anything of substance.
I don't get this.
While not joining as a full member, the ACC does have a deal for 5 games a year vs ND. That is something of value.
(Tickets, TV revenues, another game against a decent team)
The ACC also has ND as a member of other sports, including basketball. That's something of value.
It's definitely a sweetheart deal for ND that lets them keep their own network deal (also a sweetheart deal), but the ACC does benefit from having Notre Dame as a partial member.
VT has certainly benefited from the arrangement. VT had NEVER played Notre Dame before this arrangement, and it's certainly a highlight of the seasons when we play them. They're a quality opponent.
That's not at all what I said - remember, ESPN made the deal with the ACC before ND. However, Comcast never picked up the ACCN until this year.
I do think that ND (and their national presence) it one of the reasons that Comcast started carrying the ACCN in 2021.
You're talking about the original deal for conference coverage, I am talking about the deal for ACC Network. Swofford swung and missed on the first negotiation with ESPN. Couldn't close it until ND was part of the deal which also included sub-licensing Tier 2 rights to Raycom for a wildly below market value of 50M (none of which is paid to schools) and giving up all Tier 3 rights. It's the worst tv rights deal of any P5 conference by far.
Comcast carriage deal had nothing to do with ND. That was a negotiation held up between Disney and Comcast due to their intertwined ownership on things like Hulu which per to their contract renewals in 2019 needed to be undone before Comcast would carry additional channels like ACC Network.
If NBC wants to build out their CFB portfolio, they need partners that have actual content to sell that isn't already locked up. The ACC could not do this deal with NBC because they negotiated away their Tier 2 and Tier 3 rights to ESPN and the contract isn't up until 2036.
The Big12 did not. They have games that they can sell to NBC in the short term and their media deal is up for renegotiation soon (2025 I think), which is why the OU and Texas moves are happening now, because the monetary hit isn't that large. The Big12 would love to shop some of their content to a network that didn't do back channel negotiations to gut their conference and not be solely reliant on ESPN.
A more profitable portfolio for NBC is the proverbial rising tide that lifts all boats so it makes sense for the Big12 and ND to be on board with this (Meanwhile the ACC is tied to a dock that is slowly sinking below the surface).
NBC won't pay ND $75mil/yr without building up their CFB portfolio.
Remember, it wasn't that long ago that NBC contracted their CFB portfolio and stopped broadcasting non-ND football. This was around the time when the TV deals started to shoot up in price. I think they see the money they are leaving on the table with that decision and this signals their intent to get back in.
The post-mortem on the ACC deal is going to reveal it as one of the worst, most short-sighted, long-term damaging media deals in sports. We already know this because we are getting screwed by it, but national and even non-sports media will one day talk about how historically bad of a failure it was.
You do have to wonder why they contracted for such a long period, and such a low price.
Was it just bad timing, or were they missing parts of their brain, or is ACC football really worth so much less?
The only benefit was long-term stability for the conference, ie not getting teams poached. It was a total panic move made with no real consideration of the long-term negative impacts on the schools themselves. Great for keeping the ACC intact, but absolutely a poison pill for the individual schools, at least the ones that care about football.
Also a bit of laziness convincing itself that it is strategic, long-term planning. "Well, we got that deal locked up so we won't have to work on that for a few decades. Now lets collect our checks and go play golf".
ACC football was likely worth more than what we were getting paid, but you damn well know that Swofford wasn't about to market our tv deal to someone else because he had to keep ACC basketball on ESPN, and ESPN knew it, knowing they could lowball us and still get the contract. 20 years was just icing on the shit cupcake.
The fact that we can't even now negotiate out our 2nd and 3rd tier rights on what is already a lowball tv deal is unfathomable. And the fact that the promise of getting ND got Grant of Rights signed is just another level of stupidity from everyone involved.
Similar to Whit publicly stating that Nike provides value to virginia tech beyond "money" lol. Tip your hand bro, so they will give you a deal similar to Air Force and Wake and half of UVAs. great work. great negotiating. lol
Posted in the David Hale thread, and saying it again...
And he's the new commissioner of the Big 12.
Do NOT sleep on the B12, and don't think for a second that NBC/CBS, or even Amazon/Netflix are off the table in the realignment / TV rights picture for CFB. E$PN / Fox are certainly driving change, but there's a whole host of $$$ in play. There are some big names bouncing around behind the scenes. For example, George Pyne's son plays QB for Notre Dame. George and Brett were at NASCAR together; George is the former President of IMG (he pulled together the rights and marketing deals that captured all the non-TV rights of almost ALL the P5 schools. George is the reason you hear "IMG" on Hokies radio broadcasts."
So as much as everyone likes to prognosticate and put rational thought out there - the key to this will be the relationships - past, current, and future.
Bring on StreamCon!