Andrea Adelson put out a piece yesterday essentially saying that, while Bud had an answer for the Ohio State offense last year, he avoided having to scheme for their best athlete. Now, with Miller moving to WR/H-Back, Andrea seems to think that Bud may a tougher time coming up with an answer. She postulates that it could come down to a one-on-one battle between Miller and Chuck Clark, our FS. Foster and Adelson both praise Clark's play and versatility (and Bud has some good thoughts about Rover as well), but it seems Adelson thinks stopping Braxton Miller could be THE key to winning two in a row against our friends from Columbus.
Things to consider/discuss:
1. Should we really be THAT concerned about a single guy who's playing his first game at a new position?
2. Is this really that much of an issue for Bud to scheme around, or does he let our 11 line up and play our game regardless of who lines up on offense?
3. If there is a Braxton-specific defensive scheme, what do we think it might look like?
4.
Comments
Braxton is at best my forth biggest concern to scheme around.
1. Zeke will likely be the best RB we face this year and was playing fastastic football at the end of the season. The first priority has to be to contain him.
2. Thomas is their most technically sound receiver. Its no accident that he is their only receiver that caught more than one pass against us last year. He is priority #2
3. QB Scrambles
4. Then maybe Braxton
Zeke and James Conner are pretty close together. That's not a slight against Elliott, just a statement regarding how brutal Conner is for Pitt. Between Conner and Boyd, Pitt actually has a chance to surprise people.
That is very true. Conner is right up there with him.
I think this is a fair assessment. I don't think Braxton Miller will even be a factor if we can't stop Zeke. The kid is a beast and I fully expect him to get a lot of touches early in the game. UM is not going to stop handing him the rock if it's successful. If we are able to contain him (big IF IMO) then it's possible that BM gets more looks, but even then, he's not the only talented athlete OSU will try to use.
Ultimately, I think THE matchup in this game is Zeke vs Motuapuaka and not Clark vs Miller. The team who has more success running the ball will win the game.
that match-up scares me. Moto really looks to follow the movement and not stay with his assignment.
me too...that's why I think containing Zeke is a BIG IF
I have to believe he's working on this.
If our LBs aren't running the circle drill/bull in the ring or Oklahoma drills, something is wrong.
its got to be gang tackling IMO.. hope to god its not 1v1 all night or else we're in trouble
We need someone that shoots through the hole and hangs on waiting for help. That's it. Don't need to be superman.
Being indecisive and waiting, even if making tackles, is going to spell gloom and doom, death by a thousand cuts.
I'm imagining Bud using someone like fuller vs GT.. that absolutely crushed GT early on.
The problem is that anOSU doesn't take as many snaps directly under center so you can't just get the quick jump between the linemen and hit the QB. You've got a few more yards to go and so doing that removes one defender from the play right away.
agree, i'm thinking more of a spy. if OSU is going to run sweep with miller I'm not super concerned, we stopped it last year big time, its the PA and him sneaking out the other side.
I think a spy is the wrong move because it's reaction based. You play assignment football, just like GT. If it were me, I would have my ends a little wider than normal playing edge contain, my Mike and Backer plugging gaps between the tackles and ends, and my Whip/Nickel either following the man in motion if there is one or covering the field side flat. But that's just what I'd do in NCAA Football and means absolutely nothing.
see I can agree but i don't see Braxton in the game that much and when he is would it really hurt to put a spy on him just to make sure he doesn't go the distance? If Braxton is an every down player then I would play it straight up for sure. Just think its more of a game for OSU, Cat & Mouse..
Imagine a 40-60 yard td for Braxton OSU will be so pumped and the momentum will be huge..
I also wondered about a spy and asked French about it a while back. He pretty much ruled it out.
I think a big key to keeping jet sweeps at bay is upfield penetration by DTs. I believe that is one of Foster's goals generally, and it screws up all kinds of things - timing, angle of attack by the offense, etc. I know OSU has a vastly improved line, but I think we have a good shot at being effective in that department due to the quality/depth of personel, in combination with Foster's gap defense.
That worked because Jack Tyler was in the right gap at the right time to make like 60,000 tackles. AM has a problem with this.
In all fairness, Jack Tyler was a ninja when it came to fitting through gaps. Not many players could do that as well as he did.
Chase Williams did it last year when he wasn't hurt.
I'll tell ya what we need. We need someone to knock the .... out of him/them over and over again. I'm wondering how vastly other indifferent our game plan will be this year other than to try and punish those who believe they are unpunishable.
You rang?
The punisher.
Just for perspective, Chase Williams only had 2 solo tackles last year, with 5 assisted tackles. Chuck Clark had 9, Deon Clarke had 5 with 5 assisted and Kendall had 5. So a good amount of our tackles came from the outside. The better interior push we get the more pressure it takes off Moto
@ VPIhokieME
100% agree with you. I think that's the deciding match-up.
From an Ohio State perspective, I think it's going to be very dependent on who's playing QB for OSU. They're pretty different offensive strategies when JT is on the field vs Cardale one the field...
With JT the offense is looking for fast tempo, distributing the ball all over the field in more of an Urban Meyer style offense. Using the width of the field and using quick hitters. A lot more option running than with Cardale, a lot more screens, quick slants, etc. This is where I see them running screens, jet sweeps, etc for Miller and Zeke not having quite as much of an effect on the game. In this type of offense, we saw it steamroll teams at times but then we saw it stagnate and waste possessions at times when they'd get a tad too cute and try to distribute the ball to everyone all over the field and out-think themselves. Sometimes you'd beg for them to just go straightforward and bludgeon the other team.
With Cardale at QB, they did become more of that straightforward offense. It's deep ball threat and power run and they feed off of each other. I see this minimizing Braxton's impact, but maximizing Zeke's impact. The threat of Cardale's arm opens the run game for Zeke and the more Zeke gets going the more it opens the deep ball by forcing defenders forward and down hill to stop the run. What would worry me about Cardale, again from an Ohio State perspective, is that he doesn't have the same deep threat of Devin Smith snagging 50/50 balls way downfield and his deep threat is a bit diminished from what it was in the last few games last season. Mike Thomas isn't so much a major deep threat and Corey Smith was looking like the burner with good ball tracking skills that they'd try to employ on the outside...and he's suspended.
I said in another thread, but the key for the Hokies to contain the Buckeyes will be the Jet Sweep. 3 things can happen and everybody on defense needs to win their battle and stay in position.
Braxton and Curtis Samuel will be sent in motion probably 15-20 times and they will either
1. Get a touch pass (which is nice because it's not a fumble if it's dropped) and try to get the edge.
2. Fake to the Hback and give it to Elliot.
3. Fake to Hback and go deep. There is no Devin Smith this year so some Buckeye WR will have to be a legit threat to be effective. Freshmen Torrence Gibson and Jonny Dixon may be that guy week 1.
The interesting part will be to see if Bud forces the action like he did last year with a scheme nobody sees coming.
Pretty sure Thomas is that guy already.
Thomas is more the short route and make plays with his feet guy. I don't remember him going deep for hardly any balls last year. I could be wrong. One of the freshmen is going to have to step up week one since Corey Smith is out.
Coach Meyer said they're still trying to find that #9 and that Torrence Gibson may be him.
I could be wrong, but I think Thomas had like a ridiculous 40 yards per TD last year.
I think that was #9 Devin Smith. It's possible because Thomas took a lot of slants (including against the Hokies) to the house. But he rarely took the top off the defense.
Yeah, this. Meyer even said as much at Big 10 media days. Thomas is big and athletic, but isn't really a speedster per se.
It could be Curtis Samuel, Torrence Gibson or a few others. They all have good speed, but the difference is that I have never seen anyone track a long ball as well as Devin Smith. I would expect us to drop/miss a few long balls.
Corey Smith is the closest guy we've seen left over that shows speed and ball tracking ability (not saying he's anywhere near as good at it as Devin was) but he's out for week 1. I can't imagine Curtis Samuel being an outside receiver at any point for this team. He's in the plans as more of an H-Back, slot type player. They have a plethora of young guys with boatloads of speed that may be able to fill that outside deep threat role...but not from anyone we've seen in meaningful time. Johnnie Dixon? Parris Campbell? Terry McLaurin? Torrance Gibson? Who knows. Mike Thomas isn't really that guy so much either. If he's taking something to the house on a big play, it's typically always going to be a long catch and run.
I don't think Braxton needs a special scheme over any other hback. The game plan still would remain: load up to shut down the interior run game, treat the edge plays like GT.
Let's face it. The Buckeyes have a lot of weapons, and Miller isn't the number one threat. You better cork up that running game.
1. No, but you need to keep an eye on him because his speed is back breaking
2. When Braxton is lined up at H-back just play him like you would Curtis Samuel. They both run a 4.3 so nothing really changes.
You only need to worry if Braxton starts lining up under center and starts completing passes. Braxton has switched to WR/H back full time so this isn't expected, but I also wouldn't be surprised if Urban has intentionally been coy to the media about how much Braxton can actually throw right now. I doubt this would happen, but Braxton's ability to run the read option under center certainly adds a new dynamic. He is still dangerous at H-back, but won't have the same numbers advantage he normally would with a designed QB run. Totally different ball game and I expect Meyer will use him a lot as a decoy.
The main thing with Braxton is to not let him get open space. If he gets the ball we need to close quickly and make the tackle. He is probably the best person in the country with open space and making the lone tackler miss.
Don't forget how electric Miller is with the ball in his hands. I wouldn't just compare him to Samuel based on speed...Miller is one of the most dynamically shifty and elusive runners I've ever seen (seriously). Left my jaw on the ground many times in 3 years with some of the Barry Sanders stuff he used to do. Remains to be seen if his transition to WR will be effective, but (and especially with JT at QB if he wins the job) they'll be running screens, sweeps and probably option plays to Braxton. The offense is more straightforward with Cardale in that it becomes deep passing and straight ahead running more than ball distribution and quick hitters in the pass and option run game...that's when I see Braxton diminished more, is when they're running the Cardale version of the offense.
Bud will put his scheme into place regardless of who lines up at what position. While Braxton is a great athlete, we face great athletes every week. I think Braxton could be more of a liability week 1 than an asset especially if he is responsible for picking up blitzes and having to make catches in traffic.
Which is why he will mainly be a decoy. Braxton also had a chronic fumble problem that I seriously doubt will be alleviated by taking even more hits. Honestly, I would be more worried about Curtis Samuel at h-back. He has the same moves/speed but is built like a running back and has trained for the position. Maybe by the end of the year Braxton will be making an impact, but it is going to take time. I don't think Foster is going to lose sleep over him.
I may not be arguing that Braxton is going to be supremely effective in his role (because really, who knows) but Braxton Miller is as trained as Samuel is for the position. They've essentially been practicing it the same amount of time (since this spring). Curtis Samuel is 5'11" 200lbs, Braxton Miller is 6'2" 220lbs. Not sure if the time off from Braxton has left you forgetting a lot, but he used to get 20 or more carries per game, many of which were just QB counter trey or QB draws, in which he'd be a running back running off tackle. There's a reason for the last two years B1G coordinators have been referring to him as the best running back in the conference. And if you if you're gonna try and convince me that Curtis Samuel (or anyone in college football right now) has the same moves as Braxton Miller...you can kindly go find yourself to Youtube. That guy juked people out of their jocks in the space of a phone booth. Only player I can think of that could make me laugh hysterically during a game because the things he used to do to people were so dirty.
The difference was that he did it from the Quarterback position, which, in many cases, means that he does not have 1 guy that is responsible for coverage in a man scheme. Being able to make plays when no one has direct coverage responsibilities is much different than making plays against a guy with those responsibilities. He will be accounted for just like every other offensive player in the offense, which was never the case when he was lining up at QB.
As a QB, you often times may only need to make 1 guy miss. Braxton clearly was capable of doing that. But lining up an Hback or Receiver means hes going to need to make at least 2 guys miss.
You can certainly find plays in which he made half of the defense miss over his last few seasons. Aside from that, if they're going to assign a spy to him, good luck and let the Zeke train roll. Otherwise, Meyer's entire offensive premise is to create mismatches by creating numbers advantages all over the field...be it on the interior or out on the perimeter. Miller wasn't just the most elusive quarterback I've seen with the ball in his hands in the last several years...but the most elusive player regardless of position. Personally, I'd make him prove he can make the transition and not assign spies or anything. Play to stop Elliott just because Braxton's adjustment to getting the ball in different spots is more so of an unknown compared to what we know Zeke and the o-line can do. If it becomes a legit issue, you have to pick your poison and adjust. But don't discount Miller's ability to make multiple people miss, both in space and in a crowd...along with his ability to read/cut/run off of blockers. Just hope they can't effectively get the ball to him.
Miller might be dangerous to have a big play or two, but he won't even be in anOSU's top 3 receiving threats for this game. Urban might try and have him go in motion for a pitch and then throw a deep ball as well, but I certainly agree with the fact that VT vs Elliot is far more significant than Clark vs Miller.
Most of these comments are in line with how I was thinking. I know Miller is a great athlete, but how are his hands when he's covered by a guy who means it? How does he deal with press coverage? Does he have the body control to go up and get catches? For me, there's far too many question marks around him for me to really pay him much attention. But, as most have noted here, and I've said elsewhere, Elliott is THE key to this game. I don't care who's handing him the ball when they aren't passing it to our secondary, If he breaks 100 yards rushing, we lose. That is the facet of this game I believe Foster is most concerned with (because if we all know it, he sure as shit knows it). To me, the Braxton hype train seems to be little more than something for ESPN to talk about, and it seems like most here agree.
Just remember that 13 months ago Braxton was the season favorite for the Heisman. This kid is a gamer who has performed on big stages. True this is a new position but I'm sure Meyer will find ways to easily get the ball in his hands and let him do what he does - hitch, screen, sweeps, etc.
I'm concerned he is bigger than all of our secondary and a few LB's and could break a dump pass into a big play. Gotta gang tackle this guy quickly.
That's my concern as well. IF he's as good as advertised, I have no idea how we're gonna defend play action featuring some sort of leak route by the H-back to the wide side of the field. Because just as soon as we position someone to better defend that, it pulls one more guy away from defending Zeke Elliott. The only thing I can come up with is leaning heavily on Dadi and Ekanem to hit the quarterback early and often to disrupt the passing motion. Then again, that's why Bud gets paid lots of money while I sit on my couch and talk to you guys.
Agree - and he's not just advertised, go to the 2013 tape. He's a legit playmaker coming back from shoulder surgery, so I'd assume he's still got the speed and shake pre-injury.
This is true, when he has the ball in his hands. My biggest questions regarding him in the passing game are his abilities to get the ball in his hands. That's what I mean by as good as advertised. And that is something we'll just have to wait to see in 3 weeks.
At best, he'll have the ball in his hands about 5 or 6 times. When he doesn't, is he a liability or an asset? There's a lot more to playing his new position than catching the ball and running or being a decoy.
A guy who doesn't run a crisp route, make the correct read, miss an assignment, whiffs on a block, etc. is a liability on an individual play...often resulting in total failure. VT fans have seen plenty of this over the last few seasons - particularly from some great athletes.
Yeah, people aren't really talking about how he could be a liability. But we are loaded at H/WR with young talent that will rotate with Braxton regardless.
Aside from the route running and reads, run blocking could be a problem. Yes he'll be in motion on the jet sweep a lot which is a typical part of our offense so he won't have to do too much of that, but at time he'll need to if he wants to see any substantial playing time.
We'll see how it all shakes out, but he won't be a polished product his first game at WR vs VT, no doubt about that. His superior athleticism could allow him to make a few big plays though.
No one knows except OSU players and coaches, but if I were BF, I wouldn't spend a second worrying about Braxton throwing off of jet sweep action (or any other action). I don't think he can throw at this point. I would worry about him getting the ball on that jet sweep action via handoff or push-pass, on screens, and any other way. Braxton Miller is one of the best I have ever seen at breaking off runs when he is surrounded. He is a freak, and one of the most difficult guys to tackle... ever. I have serious doubts about whether he can be good at the finer points of being a receiver (beating man coverage, reading coverage, using his hands, footwork, timing, etc.). I think you have to assume that catching the ball downfield won't be a major part of the problem he poses.
I will say it again - the biggest problem he poses for the VT defense is just accounting for him on every play. BF can choose to have him mirrored, or he can just let the defense react when he comes into their zone. I think it's important for Foster to pick one of those and stick with it. Regardless, if he is mirrored, that will make him a very effective decoy on plays where he isn't going to get the ball, and if he is not specifically accounted for, it constitutes a serious risk if Urban has designed ways to get the ball to him in space in that situation.
I wouldn't orient my defense to stop him as the top priority (RB and QB run is where I would go), and I would take the tact that OSU needs to prove they can hurt me with H-back offense. However, I would also want to have Plan B if the H is hurting me.
No doubt he is an incredible runner. Of course you also need to factor that on designed h-back runs he won't have the same numbers advantage he used to have as a QB. This is a big factor. There is a reason why QB runs are far more deadly than our h-back runs. And honestly its not like Curtis Samuel is any less dangerous in the open field. Braxton has better juke moves, but top end speed is the same. And I don't know if I would worry about it, but I would at least be prepared for Braxton to throw the ball. Sure his shoulder isn't 100%, but he can probably throw a couple 20 yarders without much difficulty. Agree on the mirroring aspect. I'm sure that is what Urban is hoping will happen, but I don't think Foster will bite. He isn't going to pay special attention to anyone until we prove that our offense actually has some firepower.
I wouldn't gameplan my defense to specifically account for him at this point either, because it's just a flat out unknown if he'll adjust to the new position and the intricacies of it or not. It could be a total flop flat on its face. Or if could start turning into big plays. If it turns into big plays, you adjust. But I think BF should take his chances and focus his efforts on stopping Zeke...especially if Cardale is the QB.
After watching the majority of the video, all I can say is good god, Sept 7 needs to hurry up!!!
Only a majority? The ending was the best part!
I seem to recall that Bud said last year that playing Ohio State is kind of like playing GT, in that It's fundamental assignment football. You play your assignment,and trust that your teammate is playing theirs. You don't scheme for one or two players.
And Bud's one of the best in the business for a reason.
Unless Braxton Miller has become enough of a route runner to consistently get open against a very good coverage defender I seriously doubt "Miller vs Clarke" is the match up which costs Tech the game.
If Foster employs the Bear again, Miller on Jet Sweeps also becomes a non-issue because of the aggressive nature of Foster's defensive ends in that scheme. Only way Miller makes an impact is if he receives the pitch on the speed option or gets YAC on screen plays.
Can't wait. I'm a homer, so I see every player on osu's roster as a threat, but Bud brings a scary defense. Without the threat of throwing, miller might not be as dangerous, but he's made defenders look silly in the open field. Just hope Brewer doesn't morph into the terminator on 3rd & long. I hate the offseason.
With Urban Meyer's offense, you really shouldn't focus in on any one player, as that's an easy way to get yourself beaten and fast. If the defense gets distracted by who's on the field, they lose discipline with their eyes and take false steps out of position. That's a good way to have 60+ yard TD runs. For that reason, I think it's a mistake to focus too much on Elliot and his potential success as well. Then you get caught with play action, triple option, and the read option. If you don't play assignment football Meyer's counters will kill you.
^yup yup
The name of the game is discipline. I wish we had a warm up game like we did last year, I think that really helped to get the kinks out and have us ready. Traditionally we don't do well in these first game big game openers.