[East Carolina Athletics]
Virginia Tech head coach Frank Beamer, defensive coordinator Bud Foster and offensive coordinator Scot Loeffler discussed the Hokies' 28-35 loss to Pirates with Mike Burnop after the game. Poor tackling, circus catches, penalties, missed opportunities, and ECU quarterback James Summers were all talking points.
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Before clicking on these vids, I had to stop and ask myself, "am I ready for this?"
Sigh..
But it's now or never I suppose. Here we go.
These were enjoyable to watch this morning. Thanks!
Listened to Beamer about 30 seconds. Wish he would of just said, They really are not that good. Just shows how sucky we are.
If I could just address something:
I hear a lot of people saying "Yeah, the officiating was bad, but we still played like shit. We did this to ourselves and we can't entirely blame the officiating."
I think this is people just trying to be the bigger man, or display a sportsmanlike attitude, but it's bullshit. When those calls happen, they affect how the team plays. They affect how the coaches call the program. They affect how intensely the players play.
It's difficult being a college-age kid, being told how the system works, and then realizing that the system is playing against you, too. It's difficult being a coach, seeing bad calls, and having the guts to go in there and risk calling the big play.
I also think it's insane to say that "Blaming the refs for a loss is wrong" when we lose by 7, and there was at least a 21-point swing on bad calls. The pass-interference call led to a touchdown; the targeting call kept a drive alive and led to a touchdown, and one of our touchdowns was called back on a phantom-illegal formation. If any one of those three calls had gone the other way, we're looking at a tie game. If two had flipped? A different result.
Yes, we played badly, and yes, we have a number of areas that we can do better. But we can't separate our performance from the bad officiating as easy as the coaches say at the press conference, or as easy as a pundit declares it to be so in a post-game analysis.
Can't give more than one turkey leg but you are right! Momentum changes and significant drives were continued or halted by these poor calls!
Players have to rise above that.
It's not like they weren't spotted 14 points. If ECU were an amazing team, I'd accept that. ECU is a scrappy team, they got a lot of breaks, there were some bad calls, and the weather was bad. I STILL don't accept that as an excuse. VT looked disorganized and committed a crazy number of actual fouls.
Championship teams face down adversity, and you CAN separate bad officiating from performance. This team needs some leadership.
ECU spotted us 14. The refs then spotted ECU 21. That was the worst officiating I've ever seen, and that is not hyperbole. It would not surprise me at all to find out those refs had been bribed. It is that bad. Every official on that squad should be fired. They have no business officiating little league football. They weren't even trying to be ticky-tack, they were throwing flags that had no basis in reality. A PI on Chuck Clark when he didn't touch the receiver and the ball was uncatchable. A horse collar tackle when the ball carrier fell forward. Huelskamp ejected on the exact same type of play that ANOTHER AAC crew correctly non-called in the Mempis/Cincinnati game because THAT crew understood you don't make that call while the QB is in the process of sliding, only of the QB is already on the ground. Stealing a fumble recovery from Adonis Alexander and refusing to review it.
We could beat ECU. There was no way we were beating these crooked refs.
Fuck ECU. Fuck the AAC and their bush league bullshit. I hope the conference folds worse than an origami swan.
I'm fairly certain that it was an ACC crew
I just assume it was AAC because I've never seen any of those refs before. If they're ACC, they should still be fired.
It was an AAC crew. Two of the officials (referee Tracy Jones and head linesman Lyndell Shelton) for yesterday's game are listed as being AAC in a list of clinicians in an upcoming officials clinic in 2016.
https://www.tbfoc.org/clinic/
I thought the home team's conference always supplied the officials. Is this not true?
After yesterday's performance, maybe they shouldn't be giving clinics...
I stand corrected
The ref crew is decided by the specifics of the agreement for the non-conference game. It can happen either way, but a lot of the time the away team's conference provided the crew.
After yesterday's game, I wanted to send those refs to a clinic. Or the emergency room. Whichever.
Optometrist.
Generally. Although I think we saw some flip flopping last weekend, since there were so many ACC/B1G games.
I'm sure there's also some extra wiggle room in the early weeks of the season with fewer conference games, as it's highly unlikely that the ACC has 14 different officiating crews.
Oh, I'm not saying we're a championship team. I'm just saying we're a better-than-ecu team.
The refs didn't drop the Bucky catch, nor were they the reason for all the drive killing penalties. Nor were they the reason our secondary was complete crap and their QB ran all over us.
Blaming the refs isn't wrong, but it did not directly result in our loss. If the players were so demoralized due to one poor PI call and the ejection (and really, by the time the ejection happened most of the damage was done), then there is something wrong with our mental side of the game. Those calls should not affect most players on good teams.
I highly doubt we had a 21 point swing on those calls.
Not saying refs aren't to blame, but it's a much more complicated issue than that.
edit: Just realized I replied to your comment twice, I refreshed the page and didn't see my comment so I thought it didn't go through, didn't realize you posted it in two different threads. My bad.
s'all good!
I thought the refs sucked, no doubt. but to be factual, the drive where Sean was penalized for targeting ended in a punt, and if you go back to the illegal formation penalty, it does look like the Hokies have a couple not up to the LOS like they should.
Good teams find a way to win when they're not on their A game, when the calls aren't going their way, when the weather is tough, etc. Yes, momentum is everything, but teams that win national championships find ways to make their own luck, and build off of it.
This team was not able to do that yesterday.
28 unanswered points.
28
The refs did not cost us this game
Yeah even D Hopkins was on twitter making comments about 28 unanswered points. I don't think you can lump him in with a butt hurt fan that doesn't know football. He probably saw the same thing that a lot of us thought we saw, systematic failures by the defense. And I'm sorry but ECUs defense had to play in the same weather and they seemed to make sure handed tackles.
I won't call out individual kids because I think that's wrong but a couple of our players were slapping at the ball carrier like they had never played football before. It makes me sick to see piss poor tackling efforts. That's one of the simplest things you do in football, block & tackle. They either want to lower their head and dive at the ball carrier or try to arm hook them. I could break some of those pathetic attempts at tackling yesterday. Our DBs just flat out got out played yesterday. It was almost embarrassing. Losing on jump balls just like last year.
Penalties in such large doses are the product of an undisciplined football team. I'm not sure what goes on in these meetings or on the practice field but discipline is a direct reflection of coaching. The coaches blamed youth and inexperience for the penalties last year. I bought it. What's the excuse this year?
I'm not ready to write this team off but after yesterday I'm not at all convinced that the type of things that have plagued the Hokies for the past 3 years have been corrected.
This is true...but (and I'm honestly asking cause I can't remember), didn't 14 of those 28 come from drives that we had effectively stopped, only to get a BS call to keep the ball in ECU's hands?
Even with the horrendous officiating, VT was only down by 7 and driving within 2 minutes to go in the game. The supposed best WR on the team drops a 4th down pass and effectively ends the game. Additionally, if anyone has ever played organized sports, you have to rise above the officiating and play good enough and make enough plays where the officials have no impact on the outcome of the game. Because, if you play poor enough to lose and then get 1 or 2 bad calls, then you will normally end up losing.
If you want to see the worst calls going against a team to lose a game check out what happened in the Ok St and Texas game yesterday. A defensive tackle that was being held by the offensive lineman and was flagged for defensive holding on a running play.
I'm willing to excuse just about any passing play yesterday. The rain makes it all extremely unpredictable.
Why didn't we run more? Why can't we pick a running back and let them get into a rhythm rather than the everybody-plays rotation? If it's raining, 75% of your plays ought to be running plays - people are harder to tackle just like thrown balls are harder to catch. They're more effective, higher percentage plays.
I was wondering the same thing. Motley ran the ball 18 times. I realize some of those are uncalled scrambles. But if we're going to commit to the run like that, why not hand it off to a RB...? Especially because we are in no position to lose another QB.
I'd like to think it's Loeffler sending a message to Shane that he needs to get his shit in order if he wants his backs to get any carries. Seriously, I wonder if there's some nepotism and Loeffler feels Shane is untouchable and would rather not confront him. I really don't know what the dynamic of the coaching situation is. What I do know, however, is that I really hate this 17 RB rotation. It really hampers the production of that group and it really pisses me off that nobody is doing anything about it.
Did you look at the stat line from the games so far? At most 3 TB are getting carries between the tackles in meaningful game time.
JCC had 12 carries against OSU. That is the most carries a single player has had in a single game all season. I don't care how many RBs you play in garbage time of blowout wins but your RB#1 should be getting roughly 20 carries per game. Through 4 games, Trey has the highest average CPG (carries per game) at 8.5 carries per game. His highest CPG was 11 carries against OSU. You can argue that only 3 RBs are getting "meaningful" carries but when they're getting roughly half the work load that a true #1 back should get it's all for naught. RBs need to get into the groove of a game. They just can't do that if they're constantly being rotated in and out. Put one guy in there and keep him there a majority of the game. Change it up every 3 or 4 drives to give the #1 guy a breather but then get him back in there for 3 or 4 straight series. I'm particularly annoyed at rotating them in and out for different plays on the SAME SET OF DOWNS. That's just ridiculous.
My question was "If we are going to run the QB that many times, why not let Lawson do it?" Motley has proven that he's more valuable to our team this season so why risk getting him hurt by taking that many hits? Also, I would think after all that I have heard, that Lawson would have been the better runner in that situation. Bigger and faster.
Because we'd basically be tipping our hand that we're doing a QB draw when Lawson is in. As a true freshman, he barely knows any plays yet other than running plays, and defenses would catch on quick to which few passing plays we are comfortable with him running.
It seemed to me like the defense already was quick to catch on to whatever we were doing. Motley ran QB power probably 6 times on one drive.
Right on point. Frankly it looked like the fix was in. But that couldn't really happen, could it?
I think we all know what's to blame. The orange metallic helmets are 0-2.
So wear the Military Appreciation helmets all season? BTW, 4 games in, I think it is very odd that we haven't worn the traditional helmets yet.
I made it clear i was no fan of those helmets before the OSU game, glad others are starting to realize.
1) I really like those helmets, actually
2) if you really think the helmets are the reason we've lost and losing is grounds for not liking those helmets I don't know what to tell you
of course they are. 0-2 when wearing those lids. Can't argue with facts. /s
also, to me, losing is not my grounds for not liking those helmets. I don't like them because they are ugly
Watching this game, I kept thinking about the 2013 Miami game. It was raining, and the ball was just squirting around everywhere, but it just seemed to bounce the Hokies way every time. Miami Dudes were missing tackles because of slippery uniforms... I mean, Trey Edmunds was unstoppable. That game could just as easily been a 20 pt Hokie loss, as a 20 pt win. I bet Miami fans (all 14 of them) felt like we do today.
Yup.
Hell, I keep thinking about the 2009 Miami game. It was raining that day also, and RYAN WILLIAMS straight F#$!'d Miami up!
Dorian Porch knocked the shit out of Jacory Harris on a blitz...man that is one of my favorite games. "Welcome to the Terror Dome" type of game. Killed em 31-7, I believe. Oh the memories....
*update* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Virginia_Tech_Hokies_football_team#Sc.... Look at that Defense!
They scored 35 points against our defense. Not good. Did you note what Foster said? He said they :showed us some formations and plays we had never seen before." Well how about that? After ECU's first two possessions, they decided to put in a mobile quarterback, and then run off 28 straight points. THEY MADE AN ADJUSTMENT.
Is our offense capable of that? Can we mix it up and change our formations and plays to match up better with an opposing defense? Nope. We lost this on both sides of the field, but I would say the defense was particularly disappointing and totally unable to stop Summers.
Umm mix up the offense? Loeffer does that as normal play calling. How many different base formations and looks has he run just this year?
Agreed. I mean, there were times last night where the offense stalled out but I would say a lot of that was due to some self-inflicted wounds by penalties. Somehow we only managed 14 points (after the two turnovers) on 400+ yards of offense.
We're seeing the progress our offense has made as well as how much farther we still have to go. In bad conditions with a backup QB on the road, we put up 450+ yards, scored on two short fields off turnovers in the first quarter, happy days. Then, we have big mistakes at the worst possible times: false start on 4th and 1, a pick in the red zone, a drop on 4th down, etc. So at this point, the offense is competent, but not good enough to bail us out when things aren't going our way. About what we expected.
If I had a dime for every time I've said or heard "if only we had a competent offense to pair with Bud Foster's defense."
Well it appears we finally have that competent offense.
473
One of the most disappointing things, to me anyway, about Bud's D is that his scheme doesn't seem to allow for major in-game adjustments (I can usually spot small one's). However...
The reality is that when you are facing something you have prepared for then the offense makes a stylistic and personnel adjustment, fundamentals still matter.
Our backside DE's over pursued the zone read the entire game (fundamental mistake). Then when the zone read sent the RB outside and the QB up the middle, the DT's were following the RB (I'm anxious to re-watch and see if this was the main trend up front). At the end of the day, it wasn't the scheme that blew up the D (although that didn't help), it was poor fundamentals at the point of attack.
As I posted elsewhere last night, that is the key to beating Bud. He has made that statement many times before. His success on D is 50 percent scheme, 50 percent preparation, and 50 percent the opponent sticking to the script.
things ive noticed....
3rd and 4-7 every team we play from here out is going to run OSU pick play because we are in MAN running all the way across the field chasing the motion man. we will never be able to stop that. I think the reason for so much man is because we are so weak at the Mike position and we need more in the box.
in what looks like a poor performance by the D luther maddy was a MAN and had an outstanding game.
when stroman is in the game teams are going straight at him and having a lot of success. OSU attacked him a lot to. I would like to see more of D Riley. but maybe im missing something.
when you let a team that's already beat you think they can beat you they will. ECU played with a chip reminded me of old VT. I don't know how you get it back. I think a lot of what VT does now is just living off the name they had. they are no longer making a name for themselves. they think because we were a good D for a long time we are a good D now because we were a good special teams team we are a good special teams team now neither of which are true.
I still have faith whether its false faith or just blind hope idk. but I want to think that in a wide open conference in which NO one has shown anything we can get the needed wins to get the ACC ship maybe win it and maybe win a bowl game and hopefully carry that mo into next year and get this program back in the right direction.
oh yeah and the battle of Bristol.... looking like a match up of who can not blow it last is going to win. im not sure what hurts worse being a hokie or a vol. glad im a hokie. always will be. but man sometimes it hurts so good.
Don't worry. That's an exhibition game. /s
That's actually just the way Bud plays D. Every year we always play man across the board, no matter who our Mike is.
Wish this had worked against OSU when we were up at half.
CFB sounds like he is drunk.
This made me laugh, and I needed it. His voice just isn't the same since throat surgery. He doesn't sound well.
It's better than it was before surgery. And keep in mind, the man just spent like 3 hours out in the rain. Hence the nasal, stuffy, crappiness of his voice there.
It was just a bad game overall. There were too many mistakes. Defense couldn't adjust to a mobile QB. No one could tackle. DBU couldn't cover anyone. O-line was shitty, too many penalties. It looked like they were unprepared. It's been raining all week here in NC. It was like it never crossed their mind the weather might be terrible. Still not convinced Loeffler is a good OC. Beamer looks like he's out of it. Did you see him at halftime? I can't wait to hear what everyone in my section says on Saturday.
You mean when he asked the reporter to repeat the question? Yeah, I'm sure that had nothing to do with the ECU fans being really loud just then. Hell, I didn't understand what she said the first time, and that was with the benefit of her being miked up on TV!