Who the Hell Knows

It's not as much a column as it is a stream of thoughts.

Virginia Tech football camp is underway, but who knows for how long. [Virginia Tech Athletics \ Dave Knachel]

When the remixed ACC schedule dropped Thursday morning, for a moment, I found myself excited for football. It's been a while. The 10-plus-one model doesn't have the allure of marquee non-conference matchups (at least in the short-term), but count me amongst the crowd that doesn't want to go back to the inferior divisional model. Virginia Tech ditched the cozy Coastal for a slate that includes North Carolina, Miami, Louisville and Clemson, arguably the best teams in the conference (vagabond Notre Dame notwithstanding). There's nowhere to hide and simply winning the division is no longer good enough to book a trip to the title game. The backdoor is closed. Want to go to Charlotte? Then finish top 2 in conference game winning percentage. It's a high-protein test to gauge how far along Justin Fuente has improved his program.

That was the allure for me heading into the 2020 season, pre-COVID, the simple storyline of: with his players, could Fuente win enough football games in year five to satisfy the fanbase.

"I'm really excited about the chemistry and what we got in our locker room right now," Fuente said during an interview with Sons of Saturday. "We're finally an older football team, first of all. We were an older football team in 2016, in 2017 we were an older football team on one side of the ball, and then in '18 we were young everywhere. We finally kind of made it through that youth movement that we knew was coming.

"I sat there and looked at the roster and met with Whit [Babock] after my first two years and said, 'Listen, this is what's coming. You gotta understand, I'm looking at this, and there's going to be some bumps in the road. You didn't hire me for the last two years. You hired me to get us through what's coming up. And we have made it through that."

This season was going to test Fuente's assertion — whether the Hokies had made that leap. And yeah, with foresight and hindsight it was evident the roster Fuente inherited was top-heavy and he (or any coach really) would have to rebuild the program's foundation. Though perspective, patience and understanding are tougher for a fanbase to swallow when Tech loses by two scores at ODU, gets drubbed in Lane by Duke, and racks up the losses in between. It had to get done, the basement door swung crooked, but no one wanted to think about the cost, especially when watching the Hokie Stone get demo'd. Now it was time to see if Babcock hired the right contractor for the job.

Ignorance was bliss, and getting caught up, even for a few minutes, in what a football season might look like was a welcome mental escape. The fire's burning all around and you're gleefully drinking cans of Summer Ale in the driveway because the flames haven't reached your neighborhood.

And maybe they won't.

But I'm a believer in expectations management, underpromise and overdeliver, and for a few minutes this week I bought into a football season. The return on a penny stock seems more promising.

The bigger picture puts a football season (or lack thereof) into the proper perspective. There are more important things at stake, namely the immediate and unknown health concerns caused by COVID. (And I write that as the owner of a small business that has and will feel the financial impact of the pandemic.)

It's certainly a #PuntingIsWinning strategy right now for the Power 5 conferences. It remains to be seen how long the plane sits on tarmac for though. The NBA has operated successfully in a bubble to contain the virus, and that plan seems most prudent for any league that wants to play sports, but college administrators are committed to not doing anything that would further distinguish a "student athlete" from an ordinary one, especially now that the athletes are coming for a piece of the piecake. They will preserve the amateur model at all costs to minimize expenses (labor) over the long term. Morph campuses into sports bubbles and all of a sudden the dealer is playing with both cards up, and the house ain't winning anymore.

It's disingenuous to say safety hasn't been a concern for presidents and athletic directors, but the cash cow has been considered right along with it. The thinking to trust college students at-large to come back to campus and follow any guidelines for an extended period of time contradicts conventional wisdom, and the adults in the room should know better.

Whit Babock summed up the situation to reporters on Wednesday like this:

"We're all tiptoeing forward until we can't. We want to absolutely do it safely. We want to provide competition opportunities, and if we can't do it in the fall, we'll move it back and move it back and try to do that."

That made me think of Zeno's Dichotomy paradox.

Suppose Atalanta wishes to walk to the end of a path. Before she can get there, she must get halfway there. Before she can get halfway there, she must get a quarter of the way there. Before traveling a quarter, she must travel one-eighth; before an eighth, one-sixteenth; and so on.

In both cases, it feels more and more like we don't reach the end, and who the hell knows where we end up.


Today was literally the first time I've thought "no college football." Big time sigh on my end.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

Been thinking it for months now, and I've been hoping I'm wrong the entire time. I just haven't seen any signs of the threat diminishing enough for it to be a viable option given the constraints of the amateurism model of college athletics.

I always try to be the optimist in any situation so why are there no thoughts to postponing and maybe having the season in the spring? Sure it isnt perfect but if you could actually have crowds in stadiums by then it could be a big cash inflow for the schools and athletic programs that need it.

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

I feel like that is covered by, all options on the table. It would be really interesting to see how many kids sit out if it is spring football. Wanting to be fresh for the combine, team work outs, draft. I could see a lot of guys that are locks for the first round sitting out in the spring.

A lot of kids that are 1st round locks will sit out fall too. We're definitely not done with those types of announcements. I bet you also see quite a few that only play a few games and then quit mid-season.

Yea if I'm a 1st round player and my team plays and loses 2 games I would have to really think about stepping back to pre for draft, or if a game or two gets canceled why would I stay and hope we get games in?

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

I am usually optimistic by nature but been pretty sure we wouldn't have football this fall for at least 6 weeks. Hoping all sports will happen by next spring and we will be inundated!

You all are looking at this the wrong way, this is the chance to start the season in December and get more snow football. We get so few games in the snow, now we get a chance for a lot more!!!!

Reading this article like

Is coronavirus over yet?

If college football isn't played this year, got to feel bad for a guy like Mack Brown, year 69 is supposed to be nice.

Starting to get worried about basketball

"That kid you're talking to right there, I think he played his nuts off! And you can quote me on that shit!" -Bud Foster

Recently I've gotten this idea in my head where you just dramatically lengthen the season and add a week or two between each game. That way, after each game is over, all of the athletes isolate themselves from each other for a week as much as possible (obviously going to class when needed, etc) and get tested towards the end of the week, and once you get a negative test result back you rejoin your teammates and practice for the next game. You could just extend the current 13-week schedule to 25 weeks, or you could retool it so that every team has 1-2 bye weeks between games, and so that ESPN has inventory to show every weekend for about 6 months.

Obviously it introduces a ton of potential logistical headaches by spreading a single season over such a long period, but it should offer additional flexibility in the later parts of the season, once we (hopefully) have a better grasp on dealing with the virus. And if the endpoint is the same either way (March), why not give it a shot?

One of the issues with this is that you'll have thousands of players across the country getting tested every 2 weeks when there aren't enough tests to go around for the general public. One of the big failures the US has had dealing with COVID is inadequate testing. It seems irresponsible to push thousands of tests through to the same select folks every couple of weeks when we're not able to test the general public more efficiently.

Just imagine, if we had gotten out ahead of this thing early on and ramped up testing more aggressively we might not be in this situation anyway

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

You make a valid point about hoarding tests for one small slice of the population when there aren't enough for the rest.


Just imagine, if we had gotten out ahead of this thing early on and ramped up testing more aggressively

But we didn't. No one can change that now. And no one on this board was ever going to change that. So how does it help conversation to throw that onto the end of a comment as though it were some kind of "gotcha" jab?

I'm just angry there won't be a football season. It didn't have to be this way. I'm angry because the situation we're in now, as a country, is a whole lot worse than it could have been.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

It could probably be a whole lot worse than it is as well.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

I think if you drew out a spectrum of how it could realistically be better and realistically be worse and plotted where we stand on that spectrum you'd find that we're closer to the realistically worse side than the realistically better side. Could things be worse? Yeah, sure. Could things be a whole heck of a lot better? Absolutely!!

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

especially now that the athletes are coming for a piece of the piecake

love you Joe. Always appreciate your writing, and this piece rings true. Hard to maintain excitement when anytime you pull your head out of the sand something new is on fire. Hope your business(es? was that for more than TKP?) makes it through alright

'14 grad

Right now it's only TKP. I've always been pretty transparent with y'all about that journey, and yeah, this is more than a bump in the road. But a lot of other people and businesses have it worse. A challenge to overcome though.

I don't think there will be football in fall or spring. I think schools realized this long ago and the charade to get fall football rolling was in fact just an opportunity to practice as a team and get back some of what was lost in the spring.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

They need to start early rather than late. Does anybody really think they will start in the middle of Sick winter season? I mean really? What I'm saying is I've had like 2 or 3 colds in my 48 years in the summer. Winter is much worse.

Hokies fan since 1998

Did anyone really think there would be football this year? There's no chance for college football this year, and I don't think there will be a single down played in the NFL either. Have people not been paying attention to the USA's astonishingly bad response to this pandemic? I mean, you have TVs and computers, right?

You're worried about football in 2020? You should be worried about football in 2021 (I'd say even that's 50/50), the 2020 season train left the station 3 months ago.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

I think TKP could do without the whole chastising people for having different opinions.

It's Time to go to Work

The tone is harsh, but I think it's kinda getting to what Joe is talking about - 2020 football is becoming less likely as time goes on but the schedule being released gave a brief bump of optimism. The reality is that no one wants to be the first P5 conference to make the call which, deep down, we all know is the safest option.

Agree. Shut sports down until 2023 or so. Need to be safe.

I'm personally getting sick and tired of seeing everyone qualify their comments about the upcoming season with "if it happens." It's going to happen or it isn't. Can't we at least look forward to it until a final call is made without impending doom and gloom? MACtion largely depends on payouts from big boys early in the season. It's not insignificant, but let's wait and see before proclaiming it's a major domino in a series of what everyone has been calling a major domino for months. The P5 will likely play until they can't due to the financial and economic impact. It's just a cold, hard fact. So let's tap our brakes and at least try to be excited for football and rally together on something for a damn change.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

Man I'd miss fall without CFB. Man, we just have to get back to work!

Even when you get skunked; fishing never lets you down. 🎣

Sitting here re-watching the 2019 VT vs WF game, thinking 'I really miss this. I don't care how good the team is, I just enjoy watching them play.' Gonna be a sad fall season if there are no games.

Hokie fan | W&M grad

Watch that 0-0 Wake/VT game and see if you feel the same!

An idea: if the season doesn't happen, could we have a community vote each week for a game that's online and available, and then have a watch party for it? Maybe someone could stream it on twitch or something (not sure the legality there).

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

Love this idea.

What is @hokietapes up to

They got shutdown (at least on YouTube) by an avalanche of DMCA claims last year when the ACCN started up.

I'm so upset it happened right as lockdown started. It would have been nice to be able to put a football game on every Saturday.

3:30 kickoffs all year long

I'm already planning "fakegates" at my house where I'll stream an old game outside and invite people over to party.

Season's looking up though, high chance of an undefeated season.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

That's what the ACC can do for revenue - release entire previous seasons. Or are they out there on dvd or blu-ray?

simply thinking of bootlegging one from the interwebs.

VT Marketing Class of 2009
Current Roanoke-Hokie
Go Hokies!

I wonder what they are looking at to go forward with sports ever again. CV-19 is here to stay. It's not going to magically disappear. So even if they scrap the season what do they look for to be able to start spring practice again? What are the metrics to play next fall? What are they looking at that says yes we can play or no it's too dangerous?

(not trying to turn this into Covid thread 9000 and I don't look over in those so not sure if this has been discussed there at all)

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

I'm truly not trying to be sarcastic here...to have sports again we simply have to stop failing our asses off with COVID.

Professional soccer in Europe is not only playing this fall but they aim to start bringing back certain amounts of fans starting in September in many countries. It's not only possible to have sports but most other countries are doing it as we speak.

We could likely be meeting a set of reasonable metrics to have college football but we're choosing not to.

This 1000%. Had we taken the virus seriously back in February, March and April, we'd be a lot closer to Europe, Japan, Korea, etc., where they actually CAN play sports.

Unfortunately, it's too late now. The virus is already out of control. Meaning not controllable in the US at this point. Maybe not having fall and winter sports will help the relatively small minority (I'm guessing 15-20%) in this country realize that they are literally the reason we are in this situation. Unfortunately, admitting they're wrong is not really that type of person's strong suit.

The doll's trying to kill me and the toaster's been laughing at me.

I agree with most of this except I think the number is closer to 40% of the people who are the problem, whether they think it's a hoax and manufacturing deaths (flu and pneumonia deaths attributed to COVID), people who just say if they get it they're not likely to die, or the people who just shrugged their shoulders and said it's too late to get out of this through anything else other than herd immunity. It may be different percentages in different places, but seems like they're higher in places like Texas, Florida, and Georgia.

Hindsight is 20/20. Europe is having spikes as we speak, and the US death rate is not appreciably different than the rest of the world. If the Chinese government banned International travel from Wuhan, like they did domestic travel (hmm?) this would be a total non issue. That is hindsight as well. I live in Maryland- where restaurants are still less than 50% capacity and we had 2 month long stay at home order. The only more "serious" it could be taken would be to physically lock people in homes.

How is this still happening? We have a specific thread on this where all of your talking points are discussed in detail. Why bring it up here?

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

This is a bunch of broad "grass is greener on the other side" non-fact to conveniently fit a narrative.

I mean you're not stopping the spread. You're slowing it. There is no way to stop it. That was the whole point of all this craziness was to slow the spread, not to stop. So now we are dragging out the inevitable.

But in terms of football, what metrics are they looking at to cancel or to play? I'm sure they are looking at something but along the ticker of the VT v Neb game last night it said Pwr 5 presidents were meeting to discuss the future of the season and it didn't look good. But from what metric? Why doesn't it look good?

I'm not sure what else we could have done to prevent where we are.

EDIT: Plus, the NBA, NHL and MLB have started playing here. Obviously having a paid team is easier to lock them down etc than college kids but again....when will it be safe for college kids to come back or play sports? 1 year, 2 years?? Never?? CV-19 is not going away. Vaccine's are never 100% effective, if they are generated. What is the metric they are looking at to play or not?? That's my question.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

Who is "we" and why are "we" choosing not to? What metrics could we have that we aren't looking at? This is what I'm asking in when conferences are talking cancelling....under what metric?? What is the data that says we shouldn't play??

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

What is the data that says we shouldn't play??

The pandemic that's killed 163,000 Americans since March.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

that percentage is what??? 97% survival rate....run for the hills!!

We don't shut down football for the flu and that kills people....sooo....

The overwhelming majority of people that die from this are over 70.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

The flu kills like 30-40k a year this killed 170k in 6 months (and at least several thousand more because they misrecorded initial deaths as flu/pneumonia and did not test postmortem until late April).

Also yes with a 97% survival rate we should run for the hills because that would mean 10 million Americans dying

Pretty sure last years or 2018's death total for the flu was more around 80k. And it kills a lot more young people that CV apparently does.

But the point being we are looking at is football being played. They are trying to find a way to play the season. Experts have stated that you don't get it from passing by people. It's sustained contact w/in 6 feet. Can they manage to practice and play safely?? What can they do or can't they do to make this happen?? They haven't said "We are cancelling the season because corona virus. too many people are dying from it." So if they think there is a way to still hold the season what are the metrics they are looking for to do so? What metrics are the looking at to say no??

You can't just say "People have died from it so we shouldn't play." That's a dumb argument.

If you don't want to recruit clowns, don't run a clown show.

"I want to punch people from UVA right in the neck." - Colin Cowherd

The 2018 flu season was also one of the worst in decades. Also I haven't seen anything that states that you don't catch it from "passing by" people. Sure, longer contact increases chance of exposure, but it would be a stretch to say that you're safe to pass through a space occupied by an infected individual.

Since we don't know what practice looks like outside of the few snippets shown on social media, and since we don't know what recommendations are being disseminated by the ACC's medical experts, I don't think any of us can provide the ultimate answer that you're looking for.

61,000 in 2018 and yeah as someone else said that was one of the worst in history and still not even close to our current 170k.

Obviously I'm not saying "we shouldn't play because people die", lol. I'm saying the flu and covid are not comparable.

I think the question is this:

Given that:

  • 340k/year (double the current 170k to give an "annual" number) is too high
  • 61k/year seems to be low enough to be okay

It follows that there's a magic threshold number between 61k and 340k.

So, what is that number?

Of course in a vacuum we want to get the number to zero, but that can't happen. So what's the target to say, "we've met the 'good enough' threshold"?

References to influenza are not to say Covid-19 is the same as the flu. References to influenza are to say that society's threshold of "acceptable" is at least in the five digits.

You have just explained this better than I have heard before. Thank you. It seems like every time flu is brought up, the claws come out. But, in truth the flu gets brought up so often because it is the closest comparable thing we can rationalize with.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

61k a year was an off the rails compared to normally tho

Even if it was a top end outlier on the range of influenza numbers, it was still below the threshold of society shutting down.

Yeah but they didn't know it would kill that many until the end of the year. If a new disease care out and killing that many it's entirely possible that steps would be taken to slow the spread. It's only because we're acclimated to letting the flu run wild that no greater steps were taken that year.

I think that also depends on the current state of medical research. The flu is a "known" commodity. Treatments are readily available, including over-the-counter medicines. The effects/complications of the flu are widely understood. And there is a vaccine, which while of somewhat limited effectiveness, would still be more helpful if more people got it.

None of these things are true for Covid, yet.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

That's kind of the point.

In the totality of factors, Covid-19 is significantly worse than influenza. So, down to what levels must Covid-19 be brought for it to meet society's threshold of "acceptable"? (In other words, what metrics do we need to meet?) Our ability to live with influenza demonstrates that such a threshold exists.

Once standards are identified, there can be more precise tactics than "stay home until a vaccine, even if it's years."

Also, I'd really love to depressurize the back-and-forth that happens when someone mentions influenza.

I'd be interested in what the folks who don't like the "COVID to flu comparison" would prefer we compare it to.

With some notable differences, the flu is actually reasonably close, though generally not as deadly with our current level of acquired immunities, therapies, and vaccines.

The issue with the Covid to flu comparisons is that it's most often used as "it's just like the flu, what's the big deal" or "people die from the flu too, and we don't care about that".

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

It's a reasonable comparison, though people don't realize how deadly the flu is.

People mostly don't realize that we control the flu with vaccines and some level of acquired immunity, but it's quite deadly to the vulnerable without those things.

What symptoms of COVID are not treatable with OTCs as opposed to the flu?

Leonard. Duh.

Tamiflu has been approved for OTC, though it's not yet available. Its an antiviral treatment designed for the flu specifically. We definitely don't have that for Covid.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

I admit being late to the TKP CV discussion but I'm on the facebooks and the twitters, and this is the first I've heard of deaths being UNDER reported. Did we discuss this elsewhere here?


-What we do is, if we need that extra push, you know what we do? -Put it up to fully dipped? -Fully dipped. Exactly. It's dork magic.

Honestly, if you still don't understand why Covid is a problem you're just being willfully ignorant. I have no interest in continuing to try and educate people who refuse to learn.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

Just saw this on r/cfb. Makes sense as to why the season hasn't been canceled yet.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

TKPhi Damn Proud
BSME 2009

Sorta sounds like a union. NCAA gonna shut that season down for sure now, lol

"one collective voice" sounds a lot like unionizing. This is going to get (more) interesting.

ultimately create a college football player's association

Also sounds a lot like unionizing.

There is nothing stopping the best college football players from getting together and forming a group to bargain collectively with the school presidents. Doesn't have to be a union, per se. It looks like that's what's happening here.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

I guess I'm missing the distinction between forming a group to bargain collectively and being a union per se.

Uhh, a collective bargaining group is by definition a union.

So is the nfl the only reason they didn't just push back to spring for a start?

Previously LowBrau.

Why not try to play half the season at the end of Fall and the second half in the Spring? It would also help recovery imo

Because nothing will change by then. We have essentially created a standard of wiping out the virus or else, which essentially only leaves us with waiting for vaccinations.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Bingo. Until there is a proven Covid flu shot and the perception changes, it's a zero win situation. Imagine if the common cold was treated this way- quarantine, miss a game or two, etc. There would never be sports.

The common cold doesn't kill 170k people in 5 months (and that's with a shutdown in place half the time)

First off, influenza and the common cold are two entirely different things.

Second, influenza is not exactly benign. It's kills hundreds of thousands globally every year. Yet the public risk-reward reaction to it beyond 50% of people (in the U.S.) getting a 50% effective flu shot is almost nil.

Third, the shutdown was not to stop the spread. It was to simply to spread out the contagion so hospitals wouldn't and don't get overwhelmed (and arguably to buy time to come up with better knowledge of the virus, therapeutics, and preventatives).

Influenza has and will very likely ultimately end up killing many orders of magnitude more people during the rest of nearly all of our lifetimes than this virus.

I think you missed the part where dcwilson said

Imagine if the common cold was treated this way

I think most people understand the flu isn't something to mess around with.

And Covid is worse than the flu, so it's extra something to not mess around with.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

This is partially about people not actually grasping how serious the flu is.

We don't take it seriously because we've had a lot of exposure to it and have vaccines, but even in spite of that it still kills a lot of people.

And partially about people using the term flu for simpler 24 hr bugs. Many people get hammered for nearly a week when they get real flu. Nothing to mess around with. Honestly, if flu was the novel virus, I think it is likely worse than Covid.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K

Idk if this has been posted anywhere else, but there was a Washington Post article that cited growing research that suggests that up to 20% of Covid survivors could develop heart conditions. If that's the case, you have to cancel all college and high school sports until a vaccine is developed.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Do you have the link? I can't find it.

Hokie, Hokie, Hokie, Hi. Tech, Tech, V.P.I.
Sola-Rex, Sola-Rah. Polytech- Vir-gin-I-a.
Ray, Rah, V.P.I. Team! Team! Team!

Someone else posted this article. My big fear now is another athlete or two (after Michael Ojo) who had coronavirus will die from a heart attack and that'll change a lot of stuff in sports.

Then you also have to cancel all in-person schooling as well. It makes no sense why one can happen and the other cannot.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson

Not really. If you expose athletes to the virus, then they develop heart conditions and come back to play they could die on the field from a heart attack. I don't think kids should be going back to school anyways, but a regular student wouldn't be putting that strain on their heart every day. And a student isn't risking a future career by developing a heart condition.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Less than 3% of D1 athletes make it a "career".

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

A career in sports, sure. But the rest would still be risking lifelong heart conditions that could affect them in whatever career they end up in.

All of these schools are letting regular students back on campus.

Maybe they shouldn't be.

For now, atleast. The cynical side of me thinks they want to start in person to lock-in students for the tuition and commitment. Then they can adjust back to virtual, if needed, and still receive tuition payments.

I think benw92 was drawing a distinction between D1 sports and general student population on campus. I read it as being based on their activities during college, not after.

Future careers would not prevent the other 97% from possible death by heart problem while competing at the D1 level.

Uhh... Yes. Maybe they should.

I don't disagree. But that's not the case. So when you have students on campus but no football, you really can't claim it's for safety, as nearly 2 dozen coaches have pointed out that their players are in safer conditions in the football program vice the general public.

"Go Hokies!" - Thomas Jefferson

To steal the words of vtwwalton from another thread:

If it's not safe to run into each other for sixty minutes, while intentionally being within inches of another person's unmasked face, how could we possibly find a way to run a classroom safely?

They are two completely different situations and would need completely different strategies to do safely.

My belief today is the key to the ACC playing football or not is going to come down to Vincent Price, the Duke President. He seems to have pull with the other university presidents and will be the most conservative when it come to COVID planning

Is there a more ominous name for an AD this year?

Wait, what?

I know...

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

Until- and not a second before that- a "positive covid test" is viewed differently or as a regular flu/virus, college football won't be played. Nevermind the logistical nightmare, the fact that 25 players from a team could test positive and have to sit a game- at least- and you are playing walk on's and redshirts- coaches won't go for that. Nevermind other injuries, etc. It just won't happen until there is a change in thinking around a positive test.

You're not wrong about the "viewed differently" take. Still so much to learn about the virus and how it affects different people differently and why.

This whole past week has been wacky to say the least... Power 5 presidents/AD's push out a schedule but then 72 hours later there is talks of cancelling/postponing the season because we are now in a "critical" stage? Nothing has really changed since they told to push out the schedule. They have had 6+ months to set up some kind safety protocols.

This isn't about safety, it's about liability. If it was about safety, they wouldn't be letting ANY student back on campus. The thought that it's not safe enough to play football, but that it's easy for players to stay on campus and "continue to train" is absolutely ludicrous. You can't have it both ways

I think it could be pretty simple... Come up with a safety/testing protocol, if the athlete doesn't feel safe, let them opt out and honor scholarship and give them another year of eligibility. Have the players sign a waiver if they want to play.

The schools are also afraid of these players unionizing.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

Agree 100%. It seems like they're taking the lazy course of action rather than a practical one. It would probably be safer to bubble the players with strict guidelines than it is to let them back on campus in the first place.

Another thing happening at least at NC State, is the university offloading responsibility on to the students, basically insinuating that if students get sick it's because they didn't follow guidelines, not that the university knowingly put them in an unsafe situation. With that attitude I don't see any university staying on campus more than a month this fall.

Twitter me

I should be over it by now, but it still irks me for the Big 10 to be fourteen schools.

toilet paper math.

To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
@BuryHokie #ThanksFrank

"Toilet paper math" is my new favorite saying. Using this, thank you.

Count me as one that has thought all along that there would be no season. $$Millions lost, college towns where hotel and restaurant owners can't survive without it are impacted to the nth degree, schollies eventually lost because who can afford athletes when there's no sports (and cries of racism in response to what's really a brutal welcome to the real world kids business decision).

I've even wondered would the financial upheaval be enough to uproot, at least temporarily the college football reigning kings? Or will it simply make it so the only guys with the $$$ to survive and come back ready to compete whenever the virus risks subside are the blue bloods and everyone else will be fielding intramural teams upon restart? Will there be less teams coming back? Will this force things 4 super conferences with only 64 teams because that's all the money will support to come back, at least when things restart?

No telling how it falls out. Unless a vaccine comes out that works well, we could be in this state for the next few years until the worse mutations die out from killing hosts too quick to spread, and the lesser mutations become more prevalent and less impactful because that's all that's left to spread. Then, it's just another version of the flu. That's basically how the Spanish Flu epidemic petered out. It took 2 years to play out. If COVID takes 2 years or more to resolve, the costs are going to be such that college football will be on the lower end of concerns for us, and at the same time be one of our most cherished things to restart that we'll be happy to watch the intramural squads on TV.

You said it, College football will be the least of our worries if this lasts two years!

"Take care of the little things and the big things will come."

All of this reminds me of the 2000 Georgia tech opener...we were all fired up and ready to see Vick start his sophomore heisman campaign and then BOOM lighting and rain like I've never seen (and Corso's rental car). We all waited underneath the stands thinking this game is going to happen...just frothing at the mouth to get back in the stand and watch three hours of absolute domination and a possible return to the natty. However as each 30 minutes passed it became less and less likely we would play this game(I to this day say this game cost us the bcs birth notre dame stole from us). It's a microcosm of what is happening here and it hurts....god knows I want and need hokie football but neither side is wrong or right. This is unprecedented whether your right or left or independent and I think we all hurt. I hope we still play ball...as safe as possible...but I feel like I just watched lee corso's rental struck by lightning once again 😔☹️😭


I was in Slusher Hall that night.

So it sounds like you're saying...

This year we are going to a BCS bowl! Victory is ours!

🤣🤣...you damn right👊🏻👊🏻👊🏻


Sorry to burst your bubble but we didn't play in a BCS bowl that year 😔

I have this nagging feeling that we won't be playing in a BCS bowl this year either.

Don't you always have a nagging feeling?

I'm hoping that at the very least we get through week 2, and get the commonwealth cup back.

South Stadium concourse concessions are fully set up for fans with queing area with curtained booths to pass through in front of the concession window (assume to disinfect yourself?). East and west not set up. . Appears that they are prepping for limited fans. There simply is not enough room under east and west stands to set up the distancing needed for concessions.

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Or they are just setting up for this

It's an unwritten law that it's my lunch pail. I've issued the challenge. If someone outworks me, they can get it.
Darryl Tapp

Well, Lane Stadium will have *some* crowds this year at least.

Wounds, meet salt.

Yup, that's what it is... in the south concourse. oh well...

'Its easy to grin, when your ship comes in, and you've got the stock market beat,
but the man worthwhile, is the man who can smile, when his shorts are too tight in the seat'

Looks like there is a cluster of cases at UNC and we are another step closer to a final final final decision shutting down the ACC season IMO. And as students are moving in throughout the conference/country, this will almost certainly be the situation at other ACC schools.

this cluster of cases is clearly the first domino towards losing the football season

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

No, this is the first, first, first domino.

"Sooner or later, if man is ever to be worthy of his destiny, we must fill our heart with tolerance."
-Stan Lee

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)

The line about the Coastal Division stings. Even after all these years, it still stings that our division is looked down upon by so many.

Anyway, this video was a day brightener.

That was kinda funny. Thanks for sharing.

The line about the Coastal Division stings. Even after all these years, it still stings that our division is looked down upon by so many.

Yeah it stings but the truth hurts, right? I mean, the Coastal has been terrible for a long time. It's frustrating because having just one good team in that division would go a long way towards repairing it's reputation and nobody in the league has been able to fill that void. Look at the SEC East. In recent years that division has only had one good team but the rest have been pretty close to garbage. The league doesn't suffer though. If the ACC had 3 really good teams (Clemson, at least one from the Coastal, and one more) we'd be just like the SEC. Outside of Bama, sometimes LSU, UGA, or UF, the rest of the league is pretty pedestrian. But because Bama has carried the league for a decade or more the SEC is crowned King by everyone else. And the SEC has always had at least one Robin to go with their Batman. Sometimes it's LSU, sometimes Georgia, sometimes Florida. But they always have at least one strong team in each division. The ACC simply hasn't had that. I want it to be VT so badly. We all do. The league wants it to be Miami or UNC, obviously. But until somebody in that division actually steps up and wins big time games on the biggest stages, consistently, it will continue to be the laughing stock of the country, and deservedly so. Though, I do believe the gap between the Coastal and the SEC East is much smaller than most people would think.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

Why? Why when we talk about how crappy the coastal is do we compare our conference to the SEC???? Why don't we compare the coastal to the bottom half of the Pac-12, Big 10, and Big 12? Honestly, I don't know how you can say the coastal is any worse than those schools. People are high on the Big 10, but guess what conference has sent the very best they have to offer to the National Championship playoff and has TWICE been shut out (Michigan State and Ohio State)?

I think you're missing my point. The ACC coastal is garbage. But the sec east is too, with one difference. They have always had one team that could compete with Bama(interestingly, not always the same team). If the coastal just had one team, just one, that could compete with Clemson the ACC coastal wouldn't be considered trash any longer.

My whole point is that the perception is that our league sucks but the difference between our league and the benchmark, SEC, is not nearly as large as most people think it is.

If VT could just have one or two great seasons with bowl wins against marquee programs that would do wonders for the whole division. And if Clemson manages to maintain their own dynasty then the perception of the ACC will be flipped. Just imagine if VT goes 10-1 in 2020 and then 11-1 in 2021 with a big post season and the ACC has two legitimate title contenders going into 2022 nobody will be talking about how rubbish the rest of the league is.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

I am not so sure that would be true. The "one team" in the SEC East is often a blue blood. There is no one in the coastal that would be considered a blue blood except Miami. I still think the ACC Coastal would get shit on.

We need at least two Coastal teams, preferably one mainstay to compete with Clemson every year for the Coastal to gain some respect.

That is a valid point. I think you're right that the ACC needs a blue-blood contender. Miami could be that. Florida, LSU and Georgia have all had really terrible teams in relatively recent years. But when they got good again everyone forgot how bad they were. If Miami got good again that might be true for them. You're probably right that if UNC or VT got good, though, the ACC would still get trashed. I still think if any team from the coastal (preferably VT) managed to string together 2 really strong seasons, both culminating in big time bowl wins against "blue-blood" types and Clemson maintains their status quo at the same time the ACC would suddenly be a conference with a couple of teams eyeing the National Championship. That will change the narrative IMO.

It's always darkest before the dawn ~ Thomas Fuller

I think it would take more than 2 years of consecutive strong seasons from a VT or UNC unless that team won the ACC championship and a playoff game in one of those years and maintain success in the subsequent years. I think it also requires the coastal team to win the marquee non-conference games (e.g. PSU) too.

the dude who played the B1G was a little over the top, but I'd say the ACC chick made up for it.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..