June 2018 - recruiting thread part 2

Discuss and share any Virginia Tech related recruiting topics from May 2018 [0] that don't warrant their own thread [1]. Please do some digging to share original content (e.g. embed the original tweet, not a link to another post/website with said tweet), add context / relevant information and respect the Community Guidelines.

[0] If someone would like to make this thread from month-to-month, let Joe know, he is apt to forget and pressed for time. Or simply copy the boilerplate and start a new thread.
[1] New offers, commitments, decommitments, etc... deserve their own thread. Please read the brief best-practice tips at the top of the recruiting forum
[0] Does anyone really ever read this?
[1] Why is October 2017 - recruiting thread pinned?

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.


[0] Does anyone really ever read this?

Yes, yes we do.

The October 2017 pinned cracks me up. Just a random oversight. Or maybe it is for historical significance. I can't remember if something monumental happened.

I was actually going to post about this earlier today. I think it is time to remove the pin.

My bad y'all, pin has been removed.

I think that was the first time we split recruiting threads into multiple parts, pinned to make sure the boilerplate language was preserved somewhere easy to find.

Any of you folks with sauces know if we are planning on two RBs or if the scholarship crunch will limit us to one?

We were planning on two before. Houston was to complement Ford. I would assume we're still in that boat, unless numbers become a problem.

No sauces here but Houston + another RB (Gary, eh?) would be a pretty damn good RB haul.

"Give me a fu¢king beer", Anonymous Genius

So I am trying to piece together how we will finish out the class. My best guess for silent commits goes:
RB Houston
WR T. Robinson
OL R. Simonds

That leaves us at 11, leaving 4-6 spots left:
DL Mario Kendrick
DL Adarious Jones
TE Nick Gallo
S Khalid Martin
Maybe 1 more OL and RB, and maybe an Ath

Yeah... that guy is a "Dude".

Edit: does the fact that Dax tweeted this mean that he's on the radar for us and us for him??

Is it football season yet?

If you play high school football in North Carolina, you know about Virginia Tech, if you are the #1 RB in NC (NC2VT), I'm confident VT knows about you.

And According to 247 we have offered him

I thought Penn State only took top rated RBs from Virginia


assuming you mean the 5* RB and not the 3* DB duke commit

Chem PhD '16

Wait hes telling us to twit at croots? /SSSSSSSS

Directions from Blacksburg to whoville, go north till you smell it then go east until you step in it

Gonna go out on a very short limb and say we have no shot with Crouch.

this picture makes him look a 40 year old man who put on a wig to convince everyone he's 17.

Hey this is East Coast High School Football not Texas high school basketball

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

I'm pretty sure the name Quavaris Crouch more or less guarantees you a spot at Hogwarts.

"Dick to Hyman? DICK TO HYMAN!" - Guy in Lane Stadium crowd when Richard Johnson hit Josh Hyman on reverse pass in 2004.


"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD

Wait. We're not supposed to tweet @ croots, but what if croots tweet @ us?


The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

Finally, I see some proof of what I've thought all along:

VT recruiting has been improving over time. Bitter provides a decent explanation, but it supports my suspicion that overall recruiting quality has been going up. He's optimistic about this year's recruiting as well, even with a smaller recruiting class, that looks to be a very high quality group. The small number of recruits will actually tend to boost the number when viewed from this perspective.

Andy Bitter article on VT recruiting

Man those early 2000s numbers are wildly misleading


“I turned down 12 other opportunities. You know what I mean?” - Fuente

Because the ratings in reroactively applying the composite scores are incredibly lazy outside of the top 150 players and result in a huge drop.

Take a look at our 2004 class compared to 2018. Walker Culver and Justin Harper. Both are about 550 in the country. But Culver is at .87 and Harper is at .83. Gilchrist is at 322 and is still a full 4 points behind Connor ( who's a 4 star). Gilchrists rating would make him seem like a borderline top 900 player today, comparable Adams, instead of the top 300 player he was.

Basically there's a huge dropoff in ratings that makes classes incomparable over that period.

In the 2000's Rivals was the premier recruiting service. 247 and their composite ranking came on very strong during this decade. I think those early numbers are quite not particularly correct, or at the very least not very comparable to the current composite rankings.

Even when I was in HS, 2009-'12, I used Rivals to follow recruiting. 247 exploded while I was in college. I haven't checked Rivals or - God forbid ESPN recruiting - in so long I can't remember.

I stopped using ESPN a while back as well, last time I tried to check I think you needed to be an Insider.

Can we adjust it to include class size? Interested to see if that matter like you mentioned and how this current small class compares.

And what conclusion do we draw if the 2019 number drops from what is likely it's high water mark to something in the 87 range?

I read Bitter's article and what I'd like to know is whether there has been any subtle, but gradual, grade inflation in general? Was he (and others) comparing apples to apples?

I suspect a better gauge is not the absolute number itself, but rather where that number ranks in the pecking order. If your average rating is increasing, but your avg star ranking remains roughly the same, is recruiting really improving?

I know that some folks also like to say the number of P5 offers is also improving, but I'd be willing to bet that the number of offers "reported" by the various recruiting sites in general has increased substantially in just the last 5 years - let alone 10 or 15 years. How many P5 offers did #250, #500, and so on get in 2014 vs 2019?

Like you said, it's a data point, and only useful when comparing to like data points.

Still, it's a pretty positive data point at the moment.

There are definitely more offers because not all offers are equal. Evan Watkins said schools now throw out about 200 offers each year. Huge uptick in recent years that results in players getting offers that usually won't be honored after they camp with the team.

The rankings I would say have been a little inflated but I wouldn't think they've been inflated dramatically in the last 8-10 years. Especially since the composite I think it's been pretty consistent.

I think you are correct on all of those points. All attempts that I have seen to quantify that our recruiting is improving are flawed.

That said, intuitively, I think our recruiting has improved...maybe even dramatically. We are offering more, spreading our geographic footprint, recruiting to our offensive and defensive system better, really good at evaluations at certain positions (QB, in particular, sticks out). We are involved with more highly ranked kids and often in the final group of kids we don't get. I think we've opened up more space between us and some lesser rivals like Pitt, UVA, UNC. (NCSU is our biggest current problem as far as taking away recruits we want, but we don't play them often. GT still can't recruit under Johnson). It's getting there.

I'm not sure it has much further to go, however. Maybe one more tick. But I don't think VT can recruit like Clemson and that means they certainly can't recruit like UGA or Bama.

I agree with your middle paragraph.

Recruiting rankings are based on subjective rankings, and are therefore flawed, but overall sentiment about the program is, I think, improving. I think you've pointed to some good reasons why.

If we can put some distance between our program and others in the ACC, and I think we have, we'll continue to be perceived as part of the top echelon of the ACC. That's not a bad place to be for now. Our recruiting has been solid, the administration is solid, and the coaching is solid. I look forward to seeing how these things intersect to put results on the field.

A definite improvement in recruiting is finding players who play a position, fit the system, and are also highly rated. There were too many guys in the past that were highly ranked but were tweeners, or had to switch to 3 different positions, or were general athletes that we hoped would find a position at some point after arrival. I feel like it's much more organized in terms of the planned future role of every player. Past Tech rosters had a great 1st team and a huge drop off to the back ups, They were also unbalanced in terms of consistently lacking in enough bodies at certain positions such as offensive line, quarterback, or linebacker. Definitely seems as though the team is gettin more quality depth and more well rounded. I think some of it is a product of going outside the state at some positions that VA has not consistently produced great college talent at, and bringing in a few guys at every key positional group in every class without droughts - except for a brief drought at CB that is magnified with recent early departures, suspensions and injury.

I believe when it's all said and done. It will be in the .87 range that is if we land a couple more high profile guys. All n all .87 range will be a good haul for Vt according to the size of the class.

Hokie Love!

Depending on how final rankings shake out it could be higher. I think with the expected class I calculated around .88. Definitely looking good, and its looking good early.


Does anybody know what happened with this kid? I know he's going to UVA but he seems to have a pretty small offer list. I remember thinking his sophomore tape was ridiculous.

Is Blacksburg high school football competition just a really poor gauge?

I went to several Blacksburg games last year and thought he was the most talented player on the field every time. No sauces but I think his size is the issue.

We were just saying we needed more Wynns.

But do you think we Cam actually land this kid?

Bacon strips &
bacon strips &
bacon strips &
bacon strips

If you have to ask, then you can't a Ford it

Hokies offered LB Ryan Jones from friendship collegiate in Washington DC class of 2020 yesterday. I really cant find to much info about him anywhere other than I know he trains with roc carmicheals new training group demigawd athletes.

on a sidenote....what I imagine goes on at friendship collegiate all day long

#Bapn ain't EZ

Wanna win put boobie in! Let boobie spin coach!

A bunch of shoebies that wear sneakers in the coean?

Pssh, no thanks, we have standards.

I get that he lives 15 min away from Raleigh and the Bradley Chubb effect is an easy sell, but is anyone a little more peeved than usual that Savion Jackson went to NC State. I shake my head but understand VT targets that go to Ohio State, Clemson, Penn State, Alabama, but to lose a key target to a team that might have one more magical "8-4" season in the next 4 years finishing 3rd or 4th in the Coastal when he could help us compete for ACC Championships and playoff runs is disappointing.

He's going to the hometown school really hard to blame him. Probably grew up a State fan. Why wouldn't he go there?


it would be pretty magical if they managed to finish third in the coastal

Chem PhD '16

I'd be impressed.

It's not just Bradley Chubb. All 4 of State's starting linemen were drafted this year. Dadi was our last DE drafted.

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Not necessarily peeved in regards to Jackson, because its been clear that he was very unlikely to come to VT for quite a while, but I definitely agree with where you're going here.

It is understandable (still frustrating) to lose targets to Ohio State, Clemson, ND, Bama, ect. They are "name" programs that have money, resources, and brand recognition that we don't. It certainly has to be difficult for recruits to not be swayed by that.

But teams like NC State we should be consistently beating for targets, especially at positions of need. They have similar resources, and since Phil Rivers, NC State Football has accomplished nothing of any note. But with guys like McNeill, Gonzalez, Graves going to the Pack in recent cycles, we have not been able to consistently win these battles.

If we really want to see our Recruiting start making major strides, we need to start beating NC State consistently and there is really no logical reason why we should not be. I would throw UMd and USC-e in to that category as well. After that, we can start worrying about beating out Bama for 5*'s.

Edit: meant to be a Response to dcvt13

They're starting to get some $$$. I saw something not long ago showing how they were near the top of the ACC in donations to their athletic programs. Also, according to NCAA finance records, they almost doubled their revenue from 2007 ($47 mil) to 2016 ($80 mil) while we have improved, but not near as much ($65 mil in 2007 and $83 mil in 2016). I would assume their trend of growth has continued and it shows at times. Their average class rating isn't great, but they can get some top guys. Got Ricky Person and Alim McNeil last year along with flipping Payton Wilson from UNC.

Raleigh's just a lil less isolated than Blacksburg, too.

Chem PhD '16

I think we are beating NC State for a lot of targets. I bet they would love to have Dax and the rest of our #NC2VT haul last year.

Our motto bringing spirit true, that we may ever serve you

I bet plenty of other schools stay the same thing when a player chooses VT over their school.

Agree totally. O&M sunglasses. Could it be that NC State is an up and comer that the hometown boy wanted to play for?

Uhh, NC State had their best recruiting class by a wide margin last year....and finished 26th, still 2 spots behind us. In 2017 they finished 53rd. In 2016 they finished 50th. In 2015 they had a pretty good year and finished 31st, still 2 spots behind us in Beamer's final class. We do consistently beat out NC State for recruits and have consistently better classes. One result is not a trend and sometimes there's just nothing you can do on an individual basis, especially when you are talking about a school in the same conference with a similar level of resources.

I know that he is fast.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby


It's not the worst if it brings you HOME.

"How the ass pocket will be used, I do not know. Alls I know is, the ass pocket will be used."
- The BoD


I'd say there's roughly a 90% chance that this is a Drake lyric

Drake got bodied by a hometown hero. All hail King Push!!

irrelevant to this conversation, but I just had to share.

So, someone else wrote it?

"Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."
-Ron Swanson

"11-0, bro"
-Hunter Carpenter (probably)


Keshon Artis has been all over twitter as well.

Every Jesse Hanson tweet that I see only further convinces me that he is destined to become my favorite Hokie.

Bacon strips &
bacon strips &
bacon strips &
bacon strips

I believe we are a favorite here

I believe this boy missed the day in "being a recruit 101" where they teach you how to pick a badass picture for your twitter posts.

My reaction could also be because I can't stop seeing this shot as though he's throwing the ball instead of catching.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

All I see is Ed.

“I turned down 12 other opportunities. You know what I mean?” - Fuente

I'm going to college...yaaaaaay

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

Based on the one prediction for him, which was made today at 1:30 PM, I'd say it seems pretty likely he's committing to Purdue.

I'd guess we're looking to only take one TE and the focus is Nick Gallo.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

Update: 8 predictions to Purdue. He gone

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

The Poster Formerly Known As The Spirit Of Bernard Basham

NC State just got CBs for JR Walker (assumed he was already going there), Joshua Harris, Zonovan Knight and Khalid Martin. I really hope they don't take all those guys. How are we sitting with Khalid now that Harris went to UT? Wondering if he might not be a take anymore if we really want Hazel, Pinckney, and Robinson.

Yeah I thought Martin was a take for us but with limited spots it must be either a dwindling pursuit from VT or increased pressure from NC State. Either way was hoping to land at least him and/or Knight but it looks like all 4 might favor state. Like RealDehil mentioned earleir, with 4 NC State DL getting drafted and Nyhiem Hines getting drafted as well.

I kind of understood the Barkley going #2 overall argument (even though I don't really agree with it because I think recruiting is more complex), but are we really going to postulate that Nyheim Hines going in the 4th round is somehow making NC State attractive to RBs now? Because that would be an unfathomably dumb reason to go to NC State.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

I'm honestly in the camp that Barkley didn't matter a whole lot. The only way I think players going to the NFL from a certain school matters that much is when you're either Bama, who puts like 4 guys in the first round every year, or Clemson with the D line because every year a d lineman leaves they are a first rounder. I don't think one guy in the last however many years matters that much, let alone a guy drafted in the 4th round like you said. If that were the case, where are all our top linebackers, safeties, and defensive tackles at this year?

I hear you but you're also thinking like an objective adult. I guarantee Penn State sells kids on "being the next Saquan" and I'm sure that argument has an impact on 17 to 18 year old kids even if the rest of us think it sounds silly.

Sometimes I like to leave off the /s just to mess with people.

I just haven't seen it happen that much with other schools that have an-all star get picked up early first round. I've seen it with schools that do it consistently, Clemson D line, ND/Stanford O line, but I just haven't seen it happen when one guy out of 20 does it.

I honestly think its a coping mechanism for our fanbase. Instead of saying we lack something in our recruiting, we say oh he went because they just sent Saquon #2. I had a Clemson fan I work with yesterday tell me they lost Zacch Pickens (#1 SDE, #19 Nat) to South Carolina because Clemson has a few top end recruits and he doesn't want to compete. Yea, the #1 SDE in the entire country doesn't want to compete with other completely unproven guys to earn a spot on a defensive line whose entirety is departing for the NFL next year. The kid just liked USC more for whatever reason. Could be a great job by them or Clemson messed up along the way somewhere.

I know every kid is different and maybe Devyn did go for that reason, but I just don't see proof of that kind of thing often, and when I hear other things about his recruitment from insiders or from him in interviews, I go with that rather than assume it was a reason completely out of our control just to make me feel better.

There are a thousand different reasons why 17 & 18 year old kids make major decisions, I'm sure it would be a disservice to try and figure out each one.

With that being said, one thing that the NCSU backfield offers RB's that VT doesn't (or at least hasn't for some time) is carries.

I think it is going to be difficult to land a big time RB until the staff can show that they don't mind leaning on one guy heavily... or at the very least, feeding the 'hot hand.'

Is it football season yet?

I covered this in another post but I don't even think the featured back argument is especially true. Penn State under Franklin split carries between Bill Belton, Akeel Lynch, and Zach Zwinak before Barkley arrived the next season. In 2015 NC State split carries between Brissett (139), Dayes (134), Gallaspy (66), Samuels (56), Hines (48), Nichols (43), and Thornton (30). That's even worse than what we did last year, yet three years later they seem to be fine.

Joffrey, Cersei, Ilyn Payne, the Hound, Jeff Jagodzinski, Paul Johnson, Pat Narduzzi.

plus Coach Fu has always said that if he thought he had an every-down featured back, he'd use him like one

Chem PhD '16

There's the rub. We haven't had a guy produce like a feature back (sidestepping arguments about the o-line) thus we can't really feature a "feature" back. In essence, to recruit the feature back, said feature back has to believe he'll be a feature back; BUT the system has to feature a feature back to recruit the feature back.

That puts us about here:

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

This is like trying to get an entry-level job when they all want you to have 6 years of experience

I hear you... and the numbers don't lie. I still can't help but think that the rotation is weird and that we don't have the tendency to feed 'the hot hand'.

All of that is somewhat anecdotal though, as I don't have a single piece of tangible evidence to back up my argument.

Is it football season yet?


I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Yeah Evan Watkins put a CB for Martin to NC State too.

We haven't done well at all in NC this year and NCSU is the main reason for that.

At one point, we were in pretty good position with: S.Jackson, AHarris, JHarris, Walker, Kenion, Freshwater, Knight, Martin and Thomas and we are likely to leave with none of them.

Well hopefully we dominate NC next year when they have 4 5* croots

Better hop on that now.

They are a bit weak this year and may have caused us to concentrate elsewhere

Hindsight is 20/20 but at this point the only two of those guys you listed that I am sad about are Jackson and DT Harris. I like our DB class as it is, don't need a LB, and I wasn't that high on Knight and Kenion. Obviously I hope in the future we can continue to land quality prospects from NC, but other than d-line I think we were able to fill out our class just fine.

All these 'cruits 'cruiting other 'cruits is awesome. It seems like these guys already have amazing chemistry and they haven't even set foot on the field yet - that can only net positive results on both sides of the ball.

Exciting times forthcoming. No #sauces...just a tingling sensation.

You might want to see a doctor about that last part...

Or some female companionship...

...unless that was how you started tingling in the first place...

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

That and VT football what's the difference?

I was only in hour two so the color threat level of the tingling was only yellow. Given the up and down nature of our recruiting saying "babe I've been reading the recruiting thread again" could lead to a couple possible outcomes.

Wait. It was tingling and yellow?

You're the only ones that I can talk to about this, you guys.

Saw today that one of the basketball coaches is leaving for Texas A&M some assistant.

Wet stuff on the red stuff.

Join us in the Key Players Club

He has been on Buzz's staff for 5 years, 35 years of basketball knowledge. Texas A&M got a good coach. Hope Buzz can find a good pick up to replace him

They got Isaac Chew a couple years ago as well.

Always trading coaches with A&M:
- moorehead
- chew
- nix
- Reynolds

Can't help but think chew's recommendation is part of why they hired Reynolds.

Damnit chew.

I heard Bud's going there too. /s

Te to qb

I bet that's about $$$$$.

Losing crystal balls for Donovan Beaver. 50% Va Tech now. Warm on Florida and West Virginia. Simonds could be our last OL recruit for this class.


Numbers strongly suggest that 3 OL is about our limit. I'd be pretty stoked if that 3rd was Simonds.

He is on campus for his official visit and commits Wednesday

Pitt has gotten like 7 commitments this week. Maybe Diethorn was holding them back

Did they not have any before this week?

Correct, they had zero as of 6/09 and now have 8

What caliber of recruit are they getting commitments from? High 4 and 5, mid and low 4, high 3?

All 3 star guys. Good for the 30th ranked class right now, but I'd say that's mostly on the back of having 11 guys committed. Momentum for them, but I don't see anything there to get worried about. If we pulled these guys in the past week, the boards would be lit up with "G5 coaches pull in G5 recruiting class... blah blah blah...."

When are we getting that guy Wiggins alluded to earlier this week? By my count we have 2-3 silent commits and the 1 new recruit who we're supposed to hear from soon? 🤔

I know, this is silly. I understand dropping some teaser and stuff or getting people hyped a day or 2 early but dropping that tweet and then not hearing anything for a week kills any momentum we had going

While I do agree with you that this isn't ideal, we also don't know everything going on behind the scenes, this may not have been the plan but extenuating circumstances forced them to a plan B

VT '17

Mario Kendrick's commitment announcement on June 30th. Looks like we may not need LA to reach into his BAG for some defensive tackles and ends on this one.


"That team is gonna win football games, ok, they've got good players and good schemes and all that kind of stuff, BUT NOT TODAY!!! NOT TODAY!!"

Norrel Pollard is committing on July 1st. They visited VT together

Love Kendricks but am meh on Pollard. Think he needs a few years of reshaping his body. Kendricks should be able to contribute right away.

Does Pollard have a good upside to him though? Someone like a Ricky Walker whose impact would be 3 years into the program but then is a bell cow for the DL?

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Different body type than Ricky. Also don't see him having the same twitch as Ricky.

I didn't mean a direct comparison to his playing style, just from a developmental time frame and potential.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

We're in the center, which means he already said he's coming here. Book it.

More actual news: the OL boat is full after Simonds commits on the 20th and Moore has been trending out of state for a year.