After today's loss to Liberty, it feels like Fuente's days in Blacksburg are numbered. Rather than just rant and call for replacing Fuente, I think it would be interesting to talk about realistic options.
To date, Justin Fuente is the 25th highest paid Head Coach (of schools who report coaching salaries) per USA Today. In 2019, our total salary pool for assistants was $3.67 million and ranked No. 37 nationally (again, of schools who report coaching salaries). Since then, our total assistant salary pool has fallen to just over $3M. Here's the breakdown by coach:
| Coach | Annual Salary |
|---|---|
| Justin Fuente | $4,250,000.00 |
| Brad Cornelson | $490,000.00 |
| Adam Lechtenberg | $200,000.00 |
| Jafar Williams | $200,000.00 |
| Vance Vice | $280,000.00 |
| Justin Hamilton | $600,000.00 |
| Tracey Claeys | $500,000.00 |
| Daryll Tapp | $175,000.00 |
| Ryan Smith | $175,000.00 |
| Bill Teerlinck | $400,000.00 |
| Total: | $7,270,000.00 |
Per Football Scoop in 2019, Fuente's buy out as of December 16th 2019 is $12.5M. On December 16th 2020, his buyout will decrease to $10M, and continue to decrease by $2.5M each year thereafter. Per Andy Bitter's 10/4/19 mailbag in The Athletic (not linked due to paywall), the buy out would be paid out in quarterly installments through the life of the contract (which ends in December 2024) - that means if he's fired tomorrow, he's owed ~$3M/year. If Whit fires him on December 17th, he'll get paid out $2.5M/year
I say all of this because, as everyone knows, Virginia Tech is limited in who we can hire. Who knows exactly how bad the COVID revenue losses will be. Who knows if some extremely generous donor(s) will step up to support football. For the purposes of discussion, let's assume that some rich donor out there will pay Fuente's buy out, and the athletic department can/will continue to pay ~$7-7.5M/year for a football staff.
So who could Virginia Tech realistically hire? Here's 10 candidates, in no particular order, who (1) might listen to VT, (2) VT could afford, assuming no changes to football coaching salary budget (again, big assumption):
| Coach | Current School/Role | Current Salary | Comments |
|---|---|---|---|
| Brett Venables | DC, Clemson | $2,200,000.00 | Not sure if he has any interest in being an HC. He's coaching his kid now and only has to coach 4/5-stars. He might have no interest in leaving Clemson. |
| Billy Napier | HC, UL-Lafyatte | $1,005,000.00 | Has coached all over the south, including under both Saban and Dabo. In 2.5 years at UL-Lafyatte, he's gone 7-7, 11-3, and is currently 6-1 |
| Joe Moorhead | OC, Oregon | $900,000.00 | Former headcoach at FCS Fordham, inhereted a 1-10 team, took them 6-5, then to three straight FCS playoff appearences. OC for Penn State, crafting an offense around Trace Mcsorley and Saquon Barkley resulting in a B10 championship and win over OSU. Went 14-11 at Mississippi State before being fired. Current OC at Oregon. |
| Bryan Harsin | HC, Boise | $1,850,000.00 | 66-18 as a head coach at Boise over 6 seasons. 5 seasons with double digits wins, including two 12-win seasons. His one 'down' year included 9 wins. |
| Ken Niumatalolo | HC, Navy | $2,316,000.00 | Yes, I know no one wants the triple option at VT, but it's often reported that Coach Ken would not run the triple option if he went elsewhere. |
| Bill Clark | HC, UAB | $1,500,000.00 | Anyone who is unaware of what UAB football has gone through needs to spend sometime researching it. After the school cut the football, Bill Clark came in, and won 6 games in the (new) football team's first season. Since then, he's gone 38-22, including an 11-win season with a conference title and a 9-win season with a division title. |
| Lance Leipold | HC, Buffalo | $624,300.00 | Went 109–6 winning six DIII National TItles in 8 years. Has gone 32-32 at Buffalo, which includes consistant improvement from 2-10 to 10-4 in three years. |
| Will Healy | HC, Charlotte | $850,000.00 | Started his head coaching career at Austin Peay, taking the team from 0-8 to 7-1 in the FCS in one year. Landed two top 5 FCS recruiting classes there. Since going to Charlotte, he's 9-9 after inhereting a team that went 1-11 |
| Todd Grantham | DC, Florida | $1,801,500.00 | VT Alum, played 2 years under beamer. Coached here from 1990-95 (DE, DL, ILB). |
| Justin Wilcox | HC, Cal | $3,350,000.00 | Defensive coach who has coached all over the country (Wiscy, USC, Tennessee, etc). Has steadily improved Cal's record each year. |
Some notable people I (intentionally) did not include:
- Shane Beamer - Rumors are that he wants to be at a program bigger than VT, and that he upset some high school coaches when coaching here. Probably not a fit.
- Luke Fickell - He's a stereotypical midwestern catholic who spent his whole life in Ohio; went to high school in Columbus, played at OSU, coached at Akron, OSU, and now Cincinnati. The media mostly agrees he's not leaving Cincy for any place other than OSU or Notre Dame. He turned down $6M from MSU last year.
- Matt Campbell only makes $3.5M, but he's spent his whole career in the midwest. I don't see him moving to a completely new part of the country for an extra $750k, but I could be wrong.
- Nick Saban/Urban Meyer/Dabo/Art Briles/etc
Comments
Me.
Pros: More legs than anyone
Cons: Zero experience in football, I'd be more of a "CEO coach"
Pros: I'd be cheap
Tony Elliot,
Tony Elliot is interesting, because he literally hasn't coached anywhere in P5 other than Clemson. Not a red flag per se, but definitely makes me wonder if he could make the jump. Venables on the other hand has coached at OU and KSU, has recruited 5-stars, but also coached up 3-stars.
Brent isn't leaving Clemson with his current paycheck, kids there to coach VT.
I tend to agree with you, but I think VT is interesting enough of an opportunity that he might listen. Maybe I'm wrong though.
Venables wouldn't come here if you doubled his salary
I'm not so sure about that... But, we're not gonna have to worry about that anyways.
That would worry me. I could OC Clemson to 8-9 wins.
So what you're saying is, he has been exposed to, and helped lead, a culture that knows how to recruit well?
Sign me up!!
If he came to VT, he'd have to not just lead that culture, but build it. It's a different skillset. Some people have both, others have one of the two, some have neither.
He's been with Clemson since 2011. People need to quit splitting hairs like this because we will have to compromise somewhere.
I hear ya - Id rather compromise on the P5 resume than the program builder part.
A paper bag could have OCed the Hokies to at least two more wins this year.....
from Imgflip Meme Generator
So... you do agree that Fuente is a terrible coach and has to be fired ASAP?
Finally.
Another name that is going to be a hot commodity this year is Jamey Chadwell, head coach at Coastal Carolina. In just his first full year as head coach at CCU, he has them off to a 6-0 start and already a top 15 ranking. They are facing South Alabama right now and are up 17-6 at halftime. All signs point to an end of year showdown with Liberty for a top 10 ranking and undefeated regular season.
Yep - that was a miss by me. I've been following CCU but haven't had a chance to watch one of their games yet. Going to be interesting to see how much interest he gets.
Do. It.
Originally from Tennessee so somewhat local ties.
So we want to give another "lower level" coach a shot here?
You know most P5 coaches are either G5 or P5 coordinators prior to coaching in P5 right?
If we were winning the coastal regularly, putting ourselves in the mix for NY6 bowls more often than not, and and generally looked like a well-run team, then I'd want a new HC to have to have a track record of success at this level, for obvious reasons.
But that's not where we are. We're getting average on-field results from a team that too often looks like it doesn't want to be there. The rate of head-scratching losses is increasing. Recruiting is not good and is getting worse. Every year there seems to be some kind of counterproductive offseason drama, that sometimes spills into the season. Not to mention that the fans & media have been pretty much alienated by CJF. At best, we're an average ACC team, and we're trending in the wrong direction.
Given that, I'm willing to cast a wide net and include candidates that we might not consider in other circumstances. I posted in another thread about tOSU hiring Ryan Day. I don't want to over-index on one data point, but one of the top-3 richest programs in the country chose to hire an unknown with no head coaching experience anywhere, and only a little over a year at tOSU as an assistant. That's the kind of risk we need to be willing to take.
I don't think our next HC is on the staff now, but we need to look further than just the short list of up-and-coming head coaches who are having success right now. That's not to say that Healy, Chadwell, or Napier might not be the best option. But we need to be willing to take a risk on the next one of those guys, the one who just hasn't had his opportunity yet. If nothing else, it would give us budget to address other areas of concern, such as assistants, recruiting, etc.
And for the love of all things holy, do NOT immediately reward a successful season or two with a wildly generous contract extension.
Unless you come to Virginia Tech, where you'll get to coach RBs, DBs or even run the defensive show with little to no FBS experience.
Fuente isn't failing because he was a G5 coach, he's failing because he's not recruiting well (this week we got outcoached, but IMO that doesn't happen often). There are plenty of coaches who come from the G5 ranks and recruit well at the P5 level (Chris Peterson, PJ Fleck, come to mind immediately).
I think Joe said it best - Two of VT's biggest competitive advantages are the fan base and the media, and Fuente has failed to capitalize on that. Just because Fuente couldn't do that doesn't mean that all G5 coaches can't.
This ^
Years ago, I caught some flack from site when I noted Fuente was not achieving the recruiting "bump" that recently hired head coaches seem to get. To me, it seems that bump is one (of a few, I admit) indicator that a coach can sell the program and can be a good recruiter. That bump (that we didn't get) can springboard a program as well and translate to a few W's.
I agree, while Fuente may be a good X&O's guy, and probably a good person and ambassador for the university, I think he has and continues to fall woefully short in the recruiting dept
If you look at most of the top programs in the country, ones that have made the playoffs recently (Oklahoma, OSU, Clemson, UGA, LSU) other than Alabama, they all hired assistants. Only Orgeron had previous head coaching experience, and he burned out dramatically at his previous program. There are many different paths to success, what really matters is the individual and the situation they're given.
Ideally we would have free reign to hire the best of the best but I dont see us in that position at the moment, so I do want someone hungry that knows how to get the best out of his players, which we all know isnt happening right now.
Someone with a vision they can sell
Look at the state of the program. We're not drawing any P5 HC coach away from their current teams
I think after taking a chance on a non-P5 head coach, Whit would probably be more likely to hire a coordinator from one of the blue bloods and promote him to HC. Would probably be a safer bet, can maybe get a better idea if they can bring in top talent, would have a track record of getting players drafted (good indicator of recruiting potential). Top tier recruits may not be as enamored of good coaching records at non-P5 schools. Just my guess for direction Whit will take.
The problem is not that Fuente was a non-P5 coach. The problem is that Fuente couldn't sell the program - to recruits or donors. Whit will hire someone who CAN sell the program. In fact, I think the Fuente experiment proves that VT needs a 'CEO' type coach. I expect the next coach to
The easiest place to find someone like this is a G5 headcoach, ideally someone who has some experience as an assistant (though not necessarily a coordinator) at the P5 level.
I've said it before, but I really want Will Healy out of UNCC. He isn't the greatest football mind in the country but he's young and has a much better view of branding than Fuente. There's a great article on how he made UNCC more visible by using social media and just by having fun. I know some of the older Hokies won't like his style but as a younger guy it seems like an absolute blast to play for him. He checks out all the bullets that you've listed, but personally I just want a players coach that we all can get behind and feel good about again.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/28283431/how-charlotte-...
I like Healy but he's an awful big risk. It's a huge jump from Charlotte to VT. That would be a concern. Also, if Healy checks all your boxes then why not have a look at the row boatin PJ Fleck? Basically the same guy. All he cares about is 'crootin and we've basically already had the self promoting type coach here at VT with Buzz.
PJ fleck loves the Midwest. He has no interest in being here. Not to mention he's out of our pay range anyways.
What makes you think Healy is a bigger risk than any other coach we would realistically be able to land?
He's had one winning regular season as a head coach and it was FCS. He's had two years of FBS coaching experience (at all, and it's as a HC). If you say "idc, I just want a good recruiter" he's definitely shown he can get some higher end G5 talent but what about 4 and 5 stars when the competition is so much higher? Will he recruit that much better than other options to make a difference? I don't think we have enough information to say that definitively.
Also the caliber of athlete and coaching staffs he'll be coaching against will be way higher than anything he's seen. I am intruiged, but he's so young if he ends up being our guy we gotta give him time to succeed or fail (5 maybe 6 years) which if he fails could set the program way back.
But anyone we can realistically hire will have the same risk. If you look at the list of ***REALISTIC*** hires listed in my OP, you'll notice that all of them have some risk. Unless Whit can find $10m for a new staff, or get Justin Wilcox to make a lateral move (and that's pushing the boundaries of what I consider realistic), I don't see any way to avoid risk in this hiring cycle; rather, it's about minimizing risk and maximizing possible upside.
I think you do this by getting a young headcoach, and surrounding him with experienced coordinators. Healy is someone who could play the CEO role (I hate that term, but I digress...), get donors, fans, and players excited.
Of course it's a huge risk, but at this point there's not a whole lot of options. The biggest reason I'd like Healy is his local ties. From TN, played at Richmond (under Clawson and London), and now coaches in Charlotte. We can't take anything for granted but I feel that's a good background for what we need in a recruiting coach. PJ isn't going to have any of that background, and as we're seeing now Blacksburg can be a hard place to make connections.
I'm also trying to have tempered expections. We're not a crazy good destination. No way will Mike Tomlin leave his Steelers for VT after this season, nor will Luke Fickell, or Venables. Healy is going to be cheap, available, young, and seemingly not a jackass. Seems to me in a similar mold to CMY with those traits - he seems like a good hire even from Wofford up to ACC basketball. I'm hoping we can get lucky this time around.
I get what you're saying about selling the program, but I think the challenge is identifying what you're selling. If we want to pull in 4 and 5 star recruits, why are they selling? In some previous comments of mine, I said I didn't understand why kids wouldn't want to be coached by Teerlinck - he just coached in the NFL. The response was that the kids want to know that he can develop talent, not just coach it, and want a track record of placing guys in the NFL. If we go with a G5 coach instead of a P5 coordinator, I think you have the same issue. Maybe they had a winning record, but conversely, the question will be whether they have what it takes to succeed in the P5, along with getting the kids in the league. It's easier to sell something when the coach can say they've coached and won in the P5, placed x number of guys in the pros, etc. otherwise, what is the coach selling? Great fans? Great facilities? The top two things the recruits we want are going to be interested in is winning and going pro. I think we gotta get someone that can say they've done that, and for what we can pay, I think it would be more likely to be a P5 coordinator than a G5 HC.
The funny thing about sales is you can give 2 guys the same tools, territory, goals and one knocks it out of the park and the other doesn't.
What he is selling is himself. Sure the fancy locker rooms and facilities help but at the end of the day that's all a sales role is. Relationships and the ability to sell your self.
Good point. The challenge is if we're looking at someone who can hit it out of the park in recruiting, and presumably coming from a G5 head coaching position, they should be bringing in a decent amount of 4 stars (maybe look at best recruiting classes in G5?), but then also what they're getting out of it, which would presumably be destroying all G5 competition with that talent. So we would be looking for someone like Scott Frost who is going pretty much undefeated.
In my opinion we have to get lucky. We can do all of the due diligence in the world but if we don't get a little bit lucky that we got the right guy at the right time then I foresee us back in the same boat. The next hire needs to be able to inject excitement back into the program almost day 1. The first "win" needs to absolutely be on the recruiting trail. Everything else is a distant second.
I think we all understand we aren't going to win football games in the next couple years. If he is able to string together a couple of solid recruiting classes in years 1-3 the buzz around town will be back and Hokie football will show signs of life.
I agree - just think people are going to want to see what looks like a really good resume on paper. Maybe I'm wrong. Guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.
This is the stuff I love this site for. Good in depth info for those like myself who don't know exactly who's who anymore, solid work op.
I hate this post. It gets my hopes up which I resent because I know that we're stuck with Fuente for a few more years
I humbly withdraw my name from any pot that may have my name in there. Very big of me to do so.
Excellent write-up upon short notice, or did you already have this drafted up after the Wake game?
Where is Les Miles' name? /s
Nope, threw it together while watching ND/Clemson.
APrimusHokie
Would coach for a bag of Skittles and a new ps2
French would be my Assistant with Alum being the DC and Fireman my OC with DCWilson being my jerry kill and Gobble Gobble as emotional support
who is your recruiter?
Hmmm Wasknick
bro I would NEED the emotional support if I was associated with that staff
Don't worry I'll find someone to give you emotional support😂
Don't use university property to find that support, though.
Or volleyball players. Don't use them for emotional support (or other things) either. Don't know why I'm taking shots at Louisville former coaches (wrong week for hatin' on Louisville).
The best days to hate on loserville are those that end in 'y'.
Fuck them forever.
I can get behind this philosophy.
Assume from your username that you were probably here for the Metro conference mess, too... I'll never forgive them for that.
Apparently I was, but didn't pay any attention to it at the time. I've always been an ACC fan (I've had tons of family go to ACC schools before I went to Tech). Also, how the hell does Louisville end up in the Atlantic COAST conference??? I guess money grubbing?
When it comes to conference realignment:
Better go recruit some Canadians then
Had to downvote you just for putting alum on there, he would totally break all the rules in recruiticorning just to get more legs
Do you hire DC as DC?
He can be Co DC😂
And does he get a pass in his first year??
I think Grantham, Napier, and Healy are intriguing for varying reasons. Grantham has been a DC at major SEC schools for years, is a VT alum and former assistant, and is from the NRV. The idea of him and potentially bringing Torrian Gray with him from Florida to rebuild the defense is interesting.
Napier has been an assistant at Bama and Clemson and is doing a great job at UL-Lafayette. Also from Tennessee and played at Furman, so has familiarity with the area and has likely recruited the area before with stints at Bama and Clemson.
Healy doesn't have major coaching experience but I think has a ton of upside if we went that route. Seems like a dynamic personality and could be a great recruiter. All indications are he's a name to watch for.
All things considered, Healy would probably be my top choice. UNCC has consistent improvement and they're having a lot of fun at the same time. Having a coach with recruiting ties to the Charlotte area would be beneficial to go against Mack and co. Getting a young and cheap coach would allow us to go after better coordinators instead of settling for someone as inexperienced as JHam.
Call me crazy but I think Harbaugh would an amazing hire for us. Doubt we can afford him but if we were able to think about the national recognition would could get from that hire. He can also recruit very very well. And I believe fans would pack Lane stadium to see him coach. Yes his Michigan tenure hasn't panned out but I think it would def shake things up in Blacksburg. We could possibly land a number one recruit and have a top ten class year in and year out.
He has failed at a place like Michigan and all its resources why would he succeed at Tech?
He failed at Michigan because he can't beat Ohio state, and has lost occasionally to MSU. If he can just keep us from losing to liberty and odu, I would consider him a success at tech
3,3,5, 3, 4 and already 1-2 this season.
His losses are from: Utah, MSU 3, anOSU 5, Iowa, FSU, South Carolina, PSU, ND, UF, Wisconsin, Bama, Indiana.
Your telling me we want a coach with a losing record to his rivals. Who can't manage to not lose at least 3 games a season with the resources, recruiting and money that Michigan has? At the cost it will take to get him and his staff to Blacksburg?
Now do Fuente!
I thought we wanted Fuente gone? The VT fan base is just getting used to the fire the coach after Beamer long term career and they just want to latch on to a name brand instead of someone who A) would actually be a legit chance to get to Blacksburg B) might actually move the team forward. We are so stuck on "making it back to '99" we don't seem to understand Tech hit a goldmine there and isn't getting back.
We do, and Harbaugh's results are better than Fuente's lol. Everything you weaponize against other coaches is a bigger strike against Fuente.
I think people just want to beat Liberty lol.
Based on what? Harbaugh has a much better team both recruit wise and resource wise at Michigan and has failed to Beat anOSU at all and has lost multiple times to an in state rival. All while losing at least 3 games a year. Now you want him in Blacksburg at a bigger salary than Fuente with a lower recruiting and resource ceiling to do what?
To beat teams like Liberty lol. What about this don't you understand?
Also, the anOSU schtick is so old. No one here cares about what they're called man. We have played them twice. Time to move on.
I don't really care what you think of it. I lived in Ohio for six years that's what I type when talking about them. Again tell me you want Harbaugh at 4 million a year to come to Blacksburg and lose to UVA 2/3 times, not improve on anything but beating Lowe teams. Or we could hire someone like Tony Elliot who could move the program up while actually paying him what Tech can afford. 2-3 million.
Lol petty mindset I guess. Oh well you do you.
Also, I never said I wanted Harbaugh. I just want to point out his results are far better than Fuente's.
Do you call UVA "LOLUVA"? If I thought people on here would know what TTUN meant I would use that for Michigan because that's how I text and type about it with my Ohio friends.
I do not because that's goofy too.
just checking, because ya never know these days, but you don't honestly think that losing to UVA and losing to Ohio State are actually comparable, do you?
When you recruit like Michigan and have their resources YES. It is very comparable to Tech and LOLUVA. People too damn focused on the names. Michigan with the recruits he has and resources he has should have beat anOSU once in last 5 seasons.
8th,5th,22nd,8th, and 14th ranked classes and those are his results.
Let's hire Urban Meyer then if you just want to look at beating rivals lol.
I tend to agree with you a bit here, Fireman. Harbaugh has all the resources in the world at Michigan and has been very underwhelming. I also think it's just foolish to envision him ever coming to VT. First of all, horrible fit, and frankly the guy is half nuts. Secondly, it would cost a fortune. And I don't even think he would be that great at the end of the day.
We need to think realistically as to who we could attract to VT. Throwing out Franklin, Harbaugh, and Urban Meyer is just insane. The absolute best I think we could go for is a guy like Fickell, but if he turned down MSU last year for far more than we could pay, no way in hell he's coming here. I think a coordinator at a good program (Elliot, Grantham) or a high ceiling but unproven guy (Healy, Shane) are really where we would be aiming.
Which is why the only name I threw out at the start of this thread was Elliot. I think Tech needs to get away from its roots and go in a Completely new direction.
Elliot would be a good candidate. I'm not completely against someone with previous connections to the program or from the Beamer tree just because I think it would unify the donors and fan base somewhat and we could get back to the DNA of the program which is strong defense first and foremost. But if there are other options outside of that circle I would be ok with it. I just think we need someone either with some understanding of the school/area or who has been an assistant at a big program and at least knows the ropes of the modern recruiting game and building a top tier P5 staff. Too much high risk/high reward likelihood with the G5 route again I think.
I think it's time to cut ties to Beamer coaching tree. Not as part of history but as how we should expect the teams and staff to act and look. The Beamer tree is pretty limited in terms of people with experience, use Bud and Beamer on the PR side.
Hiring an established coach is a new direction
Harbaughs tenure has Michigan as the second best team in the East with winning record over penn state, a team that eats our lunch in recruiting and that our fan base had already chalked up to a loss for this season. Harbaughs results at Stanford are more impressive than Fuente at Memphis and his work at Michigan is more impressive than Fuente at VT. I understand you like the guy, but harbaughs>Fuente
Again this isn't comparing Fuente and Harbaugh it's saying Harbaugh with the resources he has at Michigan hasn't taken the program to where it should be and why do we think he would be better than Fuente costing more money at Tech?
Harbaugh ain't coming to tech, Pawwwlllll.
Okay, now do the Buckeyes recruiting rankings in that timeframe. I'm not sure how Michigan's recruiting under Harbaugh has anything to do with the claim that Ohio St and UVA are on a comparable level of program, or that VT is to UVA what Michigan is to Ohio St. Nonsense.
I think Fireman isn't explaining his point as well as he could be. He's saying Michigan is getting better recruits than us, I'm pretty sure has more money than us, but loses to MSU (their UVA). They also lose to Ohio State. Plus, they lose 1 or 2 other games (3-4 per year, and not just to top ten teams, they lose to the caliber of programs we'd want/expect to beat regularly, but with better recruits than what we have now).
So let's unpack some of that. If Michigan is losing that many games per year, with better recruits, if Harbaugh came here and had a much more poorly funded recruiting budget/staff, would he be able to recruit as well, and even if he did, he's still losing 3-4 games per year with better recruits than we've had. WAY better recruits. As in, since he was hired, these are the recruiting classes he's had: 2015 - 37, 2016 -8, 2017 - 5, 2018 - 22, 2019 - 8, 2020 - 14. So 3 top-ten recruiting classes, but he's still losing 3 games per season. Those are the recruits we want but not the results we want. We want to be challenging for the ACC championship. With those recruiting classes, Harbaugh has not beaten Ohio State once. I'd hope that if we had multiple top ten recruiting classes, we could beat Clemson once. And realizing that they're in the same division as Ohio State, they'd have to beat them to be in the conference championship. But they can't get past Ohio State.
So if we did get Harbaugh, we'd hope he'd be bringing in those same type of recruiting classes (but would he really be able to with less resources?). We made it to the ACCCG in 2016 with 20-something recruiting classes, and yes, we lost, but would we be okay with having multiple top-ten recruiting classes, getting to the ACCCG every year, but losing every year. I think we'd expect to win once in 5 years with that type of recruiting class. So if we got Harbaugh, we'd have to be okay with making it to the ACCCG and good recruits, but not really anything beyond that. For a LOT more money (he gets more than $7.5M/year, good for 4th highest paid HC in college football, compared to Fuente's $4.2M), I'd hope to be splitting championships with Clemson.
Fireman did a great job of explaining his position, because I asked a specific question to clarify if he was comparing a loss to UVA to a loss of OSU and he said "yes" lol
Well, fair point - I missed that when I was reading through. I still don't like the idea of hiring Harbaugh for the reasons I listed.
Yeah if coaching success were to be calibrated on the SP+ system, I am not sure which one would be ranked higher. Both are likely good coaches that just haven't worked out.
Honestly for me Harbaugh is just like Franklin yes to Tech fans they look highly successful but when you compare their recruiting classes and resources they have and what they have done with them they have both fallen far below what they should.
I see the downvote brigade has arrived. Please give us your total rational take on why Harbaugh and Franklin have been successful at their current schools.
The interesting thing about Franklin and Harbaugh is that they both over achieved at lesser programs (Vandy and Stanford, respectively), but plateaued too low at their current programs.
Given that Harbaugh's refusal to modernize his offense, he's a hard no for me. I'd be interested in Franklin, but I don't think it's a culture fit.
Harbaugh attempted to modernize his offense, that's where all the hype was coming from last year, it just didn't work out well. Mediocre QB play being the biggest resason IMO, but could certainly be a point against him in coaching talent evaluation. Both plateaus involved being a few lucky bounces from the playoffs, with sustained recruiting success, so by any measure that's not "win national championships" I'd say they are doing pretty well.
I would agree with you until this year... PSU is 0-3 and Michigan is 1-2 with a loss to a year-zero Michigan State team. I know this year is weird, but those coaches have not just plateaued, but getting worse. PSU recruiting is down as well, so Franklin is not in a good spot.
This is likely just reversion to the mean.
Except we're looking for someone that doesn't revert to the mean. Dabo certainly hasn't. We want to hire a coach that will do more with the recruits he gets, not less.
Edit: autocorrect doesn't like Dabo's name.
Nothing would tickle me more than to squander 4and 5 star talent and knowing each year could actually be the year we do something meaningful. Hoping we identify good 3 star athletes and can coach them up is how we never beat Clemson ever again.
Tennessee
Syracuse
Georgia Tech (3)
Clemson (2)
Mami (2)
Oklahoma St
Old Dominion
Notre Dame (2)
Boston College (2)
Pittsburgh
Cincinatti
Duke
Virginia
Kentucky
North Carolina
Wake Forest
Liberty
17 different teams, 5 repeat offenders, 2 G5s, 2 complete head scratchers, 1 major in-state rival.
Harbaugh has one extra year than Fuente does in terms of duration, and 3 fewer losses. There have been consistent losses to top-10 teams (at the time) and his "bad" losses are getting blown-out by highly ranked Ohio St. teams, and a loss against Utah St. in '15 (to a team that ended up 10-3). Fuente's performance is faaaaaar worse.
Harbaugh is dealing with the Big 10, and has perennial national title contender in the same division. Fuente has a weaker conference, with no consistent top-tier team in division. Things would be impossible to be held equal, but just for the argument lets say he had the same level of recruiting and coaching success at VT during the same time period as Fuente was coach. His teams would have been consistently cranking-out 10+ win seasons.
To clarify you think Harbaugh or anyone really is going to get multiple top 15 classes to Blacksburg?
Not what I was trying to say, but I certainly do not believe he can do worse than our recruiting performance to date under Fuente.
All I was pointing out was 1) Fuente has more losses, 2) with less time, 3) to lesser opponents.
Given the same conference landscape that Fuente has in the ACC I think Harbaugh would have more success.
If mike London can get 5 stars to go to LOLUVA, someone can recruit talent to VT. We just gotta find that guy.
This ^
I see a list of respectable P5 programs
I mean he completely turned Stanford around, which is pretty impressive considering they're a pretty small school,, have higher academic requirement than maybe every other FBS school, and he did it in a pretty short time, including upsetting USC in his first year there.
The expectation s at Michigan were absolutely unreal for him since day one. The day of the press conference they literally called him the savior of Michigan football team. He said he wasn't. He def has not gotten the best of the rivalry but Ohio state isn't exactly a pushover. I guarantee he could win here w his recruiting.
What exactly are you giving that guarantee on? Just having the good recruits here? Michigan has losses to teams they should beat every year. If we are wanting to get a coach who wins the games we should and wins a few we might not expect to win, that's better. Why in the world would we pay top dollar to win 9 games a season? If you want a big name coach, get one that's going to get us at LEAST 10 wins a season, preferably 11 or more.
Khaki and Maroon is solid
Someone who WILL be available after this season who we should avoid at all costs is Bo Pelini. My son is an LSU grad and he has complained all season about how Pelini (currently LSU's DC) has destroyed the LSU defense in short order.
Lol I came.here to sarcastically say
"... hear me out.... Bo pelini"
I don't think he'd be good but he's got experience. LSU tanked because half the team left for NFL, not just bc Bo started coaching there
I think at this stage, shane would have to at least be on the list. Personally, I hate the thought of him succeeding elsewhere and also hate the thought of him failing here.
Penn St is freaking the eff out after starting 0-3. Maybe they'll panic, fire James Franklin, and we can pick him up.
*wakes up*
Oh, damn it. I'm back in the real world
I wish. Dude can recruit like no ones business.
Yeah but the whole coaching thing needs some work. We need someone who can do both and after watching penn state the last few years I'm not confident Franklin is that good of a coach.
Then you bring in bomb ass coordinator to run their units. A CEO doesn't need to be a technical expert nor a financial expert. They pay people to be those experts.
Horse on treadmill sounding better all the time!
❤
Atta girl!
And doesn't appear to be as great on the gameday/Xs and Os part.
Guy goes to 3 NY6 bowls in 4 years and we're like "nah."
Good point, at least PSU lost to Indiana and Maryland, and not Liberty and ODU. Let's hire him now.
They are now one of 4 p5 teams Mike Locksley has beaten! Cuse, Rutgers, Minnesota and Penn State. Add Wyoming and Colorado State for all D1 wins by Locksley.
Not sure if sarcastic? So maybe not aimed at you but for the record, both of those teams are legitimately good this year. Taulia looks like his brother slinging the ball around. Plus, Penn State is down their best pass rusher, top 3 (!) running backs and several other starters for the year. It's been a rough year so far, but if our main issues are recruiting talent and hiring good coaches, Franklin has done that.
I don't think it's premature at all. That seat has to be hot. I'll also add, in case Whit checks the boards, that as a head coach I'd lose to Liberty for a fraction of what they're paying Fuente.
Call 1 will be a blank check to Fickell
2nd call should be to Grantham
3rd call TG
4th call Healy
I love the enthusiasm, but VT isn't a place that can hand out a blank check lol. It would be almost comical for us to even try that.
Fickell turned down a blank check from MSU. TG is an interesting choice, but would be a budget hire, which no seems to be interested in.
I disagree that Torian is a budget hire. I think he should be in legit consideration if he has head coaching aspirations. He has the experience in our program, relationships with both donors and high schools, and a coaching pedigree that's very impressive.
I think it was Chris Coleman on TSL that said that Torian really doesn't like recruiting. I like Torian a lot, but he would be a first time HC who has never even been a coordinator who doesn't like to recruit. That is a big risk to drop a lot of money into.
2-4 are all significant steps down from Fuente
I don't mean to be rude but you literally have no idea if this is true or not.
Don't know 100% but there is definitely a low probability.
2 and 3 would be first year head coaches, and given their track record it would be absurd to think that they would do any aspect of the job significantly better than Fuente there is just no proof.
4 has one year of FBS experience and that team isn't a winner yet. If Fuente didn't prove enough turning Memphis into a winner, this not even half as impressive. Where are his ties to other coaches, how will he recruit?
So yeah anyone that pays attention has a pretty good idea, even if we don't know for certain.
Torrian Gray would be a hell of a stock buy. I might even donate more to the Hokie Club.
Fickell jumped up my list tonight not that I think he would leave Cincinnati to come to Tech.
I know it was ECU, but watching Cincinnati tonight execute almost flawlessly in every facet of the game
QB going 24/31 for 327 yards and 3 tds,
running game combined for 299 yards and 4 tds,
defense gave up a late td drive with their third strings in, but still only allowed 17 points, three interceptions with a pick 6, only two hiccups was the kicker going 7 for 8 on extra points and some over-aggressive penalties.
I met James Franklin at Penn State back in 2014. He talked shit on my Tech shirt. My understanding is the guy has no love for VT.
Power. Five. That's all I want to hear. We went the G5 up and comer route and it didn't work. We went the FCS intern route at DC and that doesn't appear to be working seven games in. Get someone who has done it before at a similar level. That's all I care about.
And again, please don't give the job to the James Johnson of this staff, Justin Hamilton.
I'd agree fully but financial circumstances may influence if we even get a coaching change at all and if we do it'll be on the cheap side most likely.
What current P5 coach is going to be on the market and Tech can afford?
And even wants to come here if we had the cash?
Oh if we had the cash, I am sure there are lots and lots of top coaches that would want to come here.
Yes, I know what you are saying and agree, just pointing out that if we could offer $8,000,000 a year to a head coach (which we can't), there are a lot of real good ones that would jump ship.
What did James Franklin say?
Not a direct response to you, but I agree that he has made questionable in-game decisions. During the MD game today, MD was punting and it was clear that they intentionally took a delay of game 5yd penalty. As a HC, you need to decline that and not let the other team get what they want. Next thing you know, MD pinned PSU deep.
Buds not doing anything
Always wanted to see Bud get his chance, still do! Ironically the fan base wouldn't go for it when we fired Fuente and they won't go for it now. But hey, I can still dream!
He would be such an obvious choice I've been under the impression he isn't mentioned because of health issues. Heart problems were obviously a thing, but is it anything more than that? Seems like he would be the go to.
According to a friend of his that I spoke to, the health problems are serious. Unless they've been resolved there is no chance he's able to coach.
I would seriously think about Billy Napier. He has recruited well at ULL and is a good game day coach. Both things I think we need and are currently lacking. And I think he would be in our price range.
He is a very hot commodity. Already turned down SEC schools last cycle. Granted, they were mississippi schools so maybe we would have a chance, but he's extremely high on the list for SEC athletic directors already. He can take his time and be picky.
Which of these candidates will have a fun spring game, allow media access, smile once in while, show emotion during games, not disenfranchise most teenagers, and would generally be fun to have a beer with?
Uh that's Mike Young, and at this point I'd let him take a crack at football
Funny....the same thought crossed my mind......
Shit I forgot about Mike Young. Thanks for putting a smile on my face.
Don't go small time again. This is what it gets you. Get a coordinator from a popular SEC school. If we just take a flyer on another small team coach, we may as well just keep Fuente
I actually disagree with this notion. We need to get someone who has a history of doing more with less - maybe that means recruiting great players with less resources, or scheming to do more with less talent. I do not want another saban disciple, I want someone creative.
This is the exact wrong mindset to take. All kinds of hires work out, all kinds don't. Locking in to doing the opposite just means we're limiting our options. If we're talking about Fuente not working out, it's not because he was a G5 coach, it's because he just didn't work out. It happens. Make the best decision possible next time.
Bingo, correlation does not imply causality. You could just as well say we shouldn't hire another coach with Oklahoma ties or a name that starts with "J" since those didn't work out this time. Also, we can't afford a proven, successful P5 coach. If he's successful at another P5 school, why would he come to VT?
I'd like to throw Jeff Grimes in the mix. Current BYU OC and Former Hokie OL coach in 2013.
I seem to remember him not showing a whole lot of loyalty last time he was in town.
He got an offer to be the OL coach for LSU, it's not like he left us to be the manager at Waffle House.
He was the OL coach at VT, who hadn't fully developed our OL yet.
So if he turned out to be a decent head coach, why wouldn't he also leave before finishing the job?
I'm not seeing how his ties to VT would be any stronger a second time.
But if Whit decided to go that direction, he'd have my full support.
Because he got a better offer. If you're trying to become a head coach, I'm sorry but LSU is a better launching pad than Virginia Tech from an overall standpoint.
I'm more of a realist than most - we're probably never going to get another Frank Beamer again. Even if we get a guy like Shane, there's still a good chance he bolts after a few years if he A) has as much success as his dad and B) a program with greater resources than ours reaches out.
All I'm saying is that if he had some element of success at VT, he'd get "better offers" then, too.
He's got no real ties to the program, and didn't stay very long last time. For me it's a little bit of a negative, but not necessarily a showstopper.
I don't think Shane's the answer, either.
I think we need to understand that the days of coaches staying long term anywhere are pretty well in the past. I think it's naive to expect any coach to be here longer than 6 years or so. If they elevate this program to a point where other programs with more resources want to poach them away then I'm okay with that. That would mean that said coach made us good enough to warrant the interest. I like that option a lot more than being stuck with a lame duck coach for 7 years because "money"
I don't think this is necessarily true. Basically you have to find a REALLY good coach that most likely was an alum. Or have a coach be so successful that going anywhere else is a step down. It's possible. I think there's a lot to like about Blacksburg and the surrounding area. If the coach is successful, the fans are great. Basically we want someone probably with roots nearby or isn't looking for their dream job at another school and just using Tech as a stepping stone. So, someone that wants to win, is capable of winning, and either has or is willing to put down roots in the burg.
I think our fanbase was spoiled by Frank Beamer. He basically checks off all the boxes you laid out (and, although he ultimately stayed, he did flirt with UNC). Is it possible? Yeah, sure. But as fans who have direct experience with such a coach (Beamer) I think it's really important to get it through our heads that it's not likely we're going to find another Frank. Frank was rare for his time and that sort of thing is even more rare now. I'm not denying that it can happen. But the odds are so low that we as a fanbase need to really understand that we're just not going to get another Frank Beamer in our lifetimes. I could win the lottery tomorrow. But it's not likely to happen and I understand that. That is the point I'm trying to make.
I think we should be ready for the reality that we will have a new coach every 3-6 years. Some will be excellent and make us look great only to be hired away and others will be just okay and get replaced. Just like every other school in the country. The excellent ones will probably be here less time than the others.
The average tenure for a coach in FBS is 3.8 years (or was in 2017). Frank Beamer was an anomaly at a time when the tenures were much longer than today. The chances of us catching lightning in a bottle a second time are low.
Yes, precisely. All of this.
I get that, but after the reaction to Fuente meeting with Baylor (however it went down and whatever his intentions), people seem to think we should be getting someone who is going to stay 20-30 years. I was just laying out the kind of things necessary for it to happen. And for the record, I'd really like for it to happen, just don't think it will. I had hoped that Fuente could be that guy, but it's looking more and more like he's not. I think he's put a very solid offense on the field this year, and can probably put a good offense on the field the next couple years (using the portal). But I think he's missed too much on the recruiting trail (unless this year's recruits have a LOT of diamonds in the rough and he sticks around long enough (if Whit keeps him) to develop it). And it's looking like JHam might need a couple years - it's hard to tell. The defense has had it rough this year, granted a lot of it due to COVID (Farley opting out, players not being able to practice because of all the sitting out due to testing or tracing), and probably not having the players to succeed with what they want to do - but then you get back to recruiting misses, and how much of that is due to the unproven record of the defensive coaching staff and how much is due to them not being good recruiters? But even if all of the losses this year wouldn't have happened absent COVID, Fuente was already dealing with frustration from the fans, and now with more losses, especially to programs like Liberty, it just feels like we do need someone else. I still think Fuente is capable of doing things at Tech, but it's more that he hasn't been able to adapt to things like recruiting during COVID.
The big problem with the Baylor meeting was never that Fuente was expected to stay for 20 years, it was that it happened long after the entire coaching carousel window had closed for that year. If it happened in November or December way more people would have been okay with him leaving, but when it happened we would have been forced into hiring a crappy interim coach on-staff and spending an entire year in limbo trying to set up a new coach.
You're speaking on behalf of everyone, but when people make comments like "he's got one foot out the door," that's not about timing, that's about having met with them at all. Also, people may not have liked the timing, but Fuente had zero control over when Baylor came calling, Rhule left when he did and they did their coaching search when they did. Also, if the motive was just to get resources as some believe, the timing maybe mattered as it would have given him maybe more leverage if he was going to leave during bad timing.
So this part I agree with; I'll never fault anyone for taking an interview/job offer in an effort to improve life for them or their family.
My complaint is around how terrible it was handled from a PR perspective. There was about 48 hours between when it was reported and when Fuente 'returned to work.' Ty Sanders (new recruit at the time) was tweeting Tre asking what was going on, and Tre was said (paraphrasing) 'I have no idea.'
It was perceived as Fuente trying to leave, not getting the job, then returning with tail between his legs. Then it was followed up with an awkward tweet.
It could've been handled so much better all around.
I mostly agree, but think the actual thing was less than 24 hours. I remember rumors that the meeting was in Texas, his wife was going, they were going to look at houses, etc. The reality was they came to Blacksburg and met with him in the afternoon and by the next morning he'd told Whit he was staying. It's difficult to respond to rumors (as a coach and university) when I'm sure Whit and Fuente probably would have preferred it not being public and them just being able to say Fuente was staying. Considering how many other names came out in the Baylor thing, I think they didn't care to make their search all that private. From there, I'm not sure where the rumor shit show started, but it got ugly FAST without any substantiation. I mean, Whit was able to arrange the deal with hiring Fuente, Fuente meeting with Bud and getting Bud to agree to stay without anybody knowing anything - maybe Fuente thought there'd be that level of discretion when he agreed to meet with Baylor?
He has control over publicly meeting with them to discuss their offer.
He didn't meet "publicly" it was in his house. That's fairly private. Or do you mean mean something else, because Fuente didn't announce it (which is why there were so many rumors without any fact). Or do you mean even meeting with them at all, because if we start putting clauses in people's contracts that they can't meet with other prospective employers without getting fired, nobody will ever want to be our head coach.
Recruiting has trended in the wrong direction with Fuente. It's not just a one-year thing. We haven't recruited any better with him than we did before him. If recruiting had jumped up several spots each of his 4 years before COVID and then took a dip then I'd see your point. But that's just not the case. Recruiting was pretty 'meh' before COVID and hasn't gotten any better. Most of the people calling for Fuente to be fired aren't doing so because of "flash in the pan" one-time occurrences, like losing to Liberty (haha). Most of the people calling for Fuente to be fired are doing so because everything is trending in the wrong direction (except, arguably, the offense - but that's a whole other story)
I'm not disagreeing that recruiting has been bad, but we've had some pretty good pick-ups in the portal (Herbert), and we're putting a lot of points on the board this year. I think we would be doing a lot better if we had been able to play Farley and our D had gotten to practice together more and we hadn't had so many guys (especially on D) have to sit out from COVID. So even though recruiting hasn't been good (okay, it's been bad), if Fuente can pick up the pieces he needs through the portal and could get a couple 10 win seasons together (or better), the mantra "winning fixes recruiting" may have come to pass. And even though I can't prove it, I think having Farley would be making a huge freaking difference in our games. I mean people don't like him, and they REALLY don't like Cornelson, but we are putting up a LOT of points this year. But this website has him at #7 on the hot seat rankings. Another article I saw questioned whether performance or economics would be the deciding factor on coaching changes this year (costing too much to get rid of people, especially given loss in ticket revenue).
It's hard to get to 10 wins losing to Duke, wake, liberty, uva, BC, etc, etc.
Do you think we would have lost to UNC, Wake, Miami, and Liberty if Farley were playing? And any other starters we were missing during those games, but especially Farley. None of those games was a blowout and we were missing our best (by far?) player on defense.
The more I watch our defense the more I can't help but wonder if Farley's opt out was strictly limited to COVID. He saw the writing on the wall. Just look at Waller.
But to answer your questions, I don't think he'd make that big of a difference.
If our losses were all by one score or less, that means he might be able to make 4 plays that could affect the outcome of the games? Stopping long runs, preventing pass plays - I think he could have had a major affect on the outcomes. Plus, weren't we playing 3rd stringers/walk-ons against UNC? Plus, if you don't think it was COVID related, what do you think changed between when he decided to come back and when he opted out? Very little football related stuff happened between then, but COVID sure did.
If it helps you feel better about this team then yes he could have.
As far opting out, with some of the stuff coming out (I.e. Dax's statement today), I think he likely saw the defense would take a step back. Plus with COVID it just makes sense to not risk it.
It is hard to believe that Farley, healthy Waller, and Hunter wouldn't have at least made a difference in a couple close games. But, it is also unreasonable to expect a team to not have attrition in some form or fashion, which is why we need better recruiting and better depth.
I also do not think Farley had some premonition about how the defense was going to be worse. My guess is that he had lingering regrets for not declaring last year and saw this season as a hopeless mess. At the time of his opt out, most people were betting that the season would be cancelled or moved to spring. Who knows for sure.
What was Dax's statement?
The gist was that the defense mixed in some of bud's scheme
UNC? yes, absolutely - Mack Brown being classy is the only reason they didn't score 70 points. Wake? Yes- Unless Farley was in the game as a game breaking WR. Liberty? maybe not- Farley may have not played 20 yards of their WR with the game FG on the line- I'll give you this one. Miami? Yes Farley does not play offense.
Miami scored the game winning TD on a 30yd pass to their #1 WR. This is the only game that I believe Farley definitely affects. UNC scored the backbreaker to Dyami right before half. Maybe Farley gives us a chance by eliminating the TD. But I'm reaching on that game.. 😂
How much does not having Payoute hurt our O? From what I've seen we don't have a WR that can take the top off a D and from what I was reading it seemed that was going to be Payoute's role. I know all of our QBs have had struggles connecting beyond 10yds.....
Re: UNC game - we were playing with a handful of walk ons in the secondary. Farley definitely has an impact there. Better coverage in the secondary = more time that the OL has to stop the pass rush = more sacks.
It's tough to quantify the butterfly effect - If Farley plays, maybe it's easier for individual players to trust their teammates, so each player can focus on their own jobs, resulting in a more stout defense that build confidence and doesn't lose to Liberty or Miami.
We'll never know Farley's true impact.
You bring up an interesting point regarding the portal. I just don't think it's wise to rely on the portal and I definitely don't think it's sustainable. At some point Fuente has to be able to recruit kids out of high school and he just hasn't been able to. That's honestly one of the biggest reasons I can't support him being in Blacksburg any longer. The second reason being his stubborn insistence to keep Cornelson on staff when I truly believe Cornelson is dragging him down. I think our offense is decent this year in spite of Cornelson. Not because of him. And I suspect Fuente has been guiding Cornelson with a fairly heavy hand this year.
French about to have a heartattack lol
I know French hates Searles but I didn't think he had a problem with Grimes
I thought French liked Grimes?
This is correct, I got them confused.
Honestly it's a fuck no to everyone on that list except Leipold and Matt Campbell. I'd take Fickell too obviously but people are convinced we couldn't poach him from an AAC school... Harsin would be good but he'd never come. Napier not horrible either but I definitely think he's a downgrade from Fu. Everyone else on that list I'd be pretty upset with as the new hire.
Just for god's sake lets not become the new Nebraska and fire a less than mediocre coach every 4 years.
Your last comment is exactly what's going to happen.
Fuck it. I'm going hunting for a week. Life's never been less stressful since I quit caring so much about football.
He turned down $6m/year from michigan state.
Maybe he didn't want to move late in the cycle to be at a program trending down in the same division as Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Indiana
Or something else. People turn down jobs for other reasons besides money. Maybe the MSU AD is an ass?
Any coach that can walk the walk after talking the talk. Dude just pulled a stunt to get the football team a raise and now looks like a complete clown. Hopefully the donors who pledged money for resources change their mind and pony it up for a buy out.
Records are one thing, but increasingly, you need a head coach who is a charmer and not an X's and O's wonk. Both is better, but if I had to pick one, I want the charismatic guy who relates to recruits and has a vision that makes people want to run through walls for him.
This was what makes Dabo great and I think it's why Fuente is capped. Dabo was in real estate before he came to football and folks who knew him there thought he was going to be massively successful. We don't need a coach who can sell houses, but charm is charm and really likable people just have a special something. Fuente has his fans, but I think it takes time to warm to him and that's hard to compensate for through assistant coaches - you need to know the big man is special to go play for a school. As a recruit, you just don't get enough reps in recruiting for a 'warm-up-to-him' guy to win you over. I think our recruiting results reflect that.
Beamer had it for sure. He was a legend and a father figure to the guys that played for him. We need to get that back, so find me a winning coach, but then the interviews better surface someone who is winning because they are wildly motivating, not simply because they can draw up plays better than other FCS competition or non-P5 conference teams. Charm will determine whether they can make the leap to the big boys by backing up on-field strengths with great recruiting.
To all saying Matt Campbell - no. no, no, no, please God no! I've lost almost all interest in almost all sports. There are only 2 teams I pay attention to in a positive way. Fuente has just about killed/crossed VT off the list. VT hiring Campbell away from Iowa State and killing the one other team in the entire world I still actively pay attention to a root for would be the ultimate VT or year 2020 thing to do, so it will probably happen.
The one thing I do know about Whit - there's no way he fires Fuente unless he already has a new coach already lined up.
Regardless of what happens, the one thing that amuses me the most right now is this notion some are throwing around that we are being completely unreasonable for wanting Fuente gone. There are very, very few schools who would keep around a coach who had the quantity of outright bad or unacceptable losses over the past 26 months that Fuente does. Especially when you have no big statement wins over that span to counteract. And add in things like the SI article and the comments that Farley made on the way out, and the vast majority of schools out there would pull the plug and go with an interim coach the rest of the way.
Justin Fuente is actively harming the Virginia Tech brand at this point. Every week he continues to be here erodes the trust that the majority of fans and boosters have in the decision making process at the top of the program. The absolute bungling by Fuente at the end of the game that directly led to us losing to Liberty 2 weeks after losing to Wake, a season after snapping a 15 year winning streak against UVa, which happened a month after getting shit housed by Duke in Lane Stadium, which happened a season after losing to Old Dominion? Yeah that moment should have been the final straw.
I'm not going to lie, if Fuente is still the coach on Monday morning, I'll be incredibly disappointed in Whit Babcock. It's time to pull the plug. There is no salvaging the Fuente Era anymore. Keeping him on staff only delays the inevitable, and a lame duck head coach can do a lot of damage before he's dismissed.
Pretty confident you're going to be disappointed, sadly.
I honestly would bet a decent amount of money on Fuente remaining coach for another full season. I don't think there is any realistic way to fire him.
Hard disagree. Start the search today. Find a coach and agree in principle on a contract. Wait until 12/16, which this year is very near the start of the carousel season, and fire Fuente then, saving $2.5 million. "Sending a message" is not worth all that cash.
His buyout drops by 2.5 million in about a month....I'd suggest you be prepared to be disappointed
Why don't we move JF to OC, fire corn, and hire a new head coach? If JF doesn't like the demotion he can quit. Buyout problem solved. Not sure we can do this contractually but it could be an option
Because then you have to convince a new coach to come on and not bring his guys with him.
Fuente's days are numbered. I will be upset to see Vice and Teerlink go as it seems we are finally starting to see some progress on the lines. Hard to judge Hamilton, Claeys, and Lechty so far, but CornFu is dead to me.
This may be the best offense we've had since 2010 though. Definitely a more complete unit than 2016 even though we don't have as many good skill players. The defense is losing us games right now.
I'm not so much concerned about this season as I am the upcoming seasons. Teams can win the Coastal with the 4th best recruits in the ACC and decent coaching. We cannot win the coastal with back-to-back 11th best classes in the conference.
The 2020 class was bad, but I'm not sure 2021 is in the same boat. DJ Harvey, Kenji Christian, J Stro, and Jaylen Jones will all likely be really good players. The OL and DE class looks to be pretty good and athletes like Keli Lawson and Isi Etute have a lot of potential at LB.
It could have been a lot better, but the 21 class going player by player isn't really bottom of the league status, and a lot of these guys could become good contributors.
I can't wrap my head around this sentiment. The 2021 class is a FULL (large) recruiting class ranked 41st nationally by an aggregate system (which favors more numbers) with an ACC bottom tier average of .8529 compromised entirely of reach and development talent and not a single blue-chip player. It's bad, unless you consider 6- and 7-win talent good.
Oof. I don't follow recruiting that closely but I went and took a look after reading this and it...is...bad. It's a direct result of the past 2-3 years of mediocrity and getting pushed around in our state.
Now that we have a good deal of data to work with, do you think this staff has failed by being bad recruiters or we just sank back to a place that was previously propped up by a pair of hall of fame coaches?
I ask because I remember in the heyday, fans were screaming about Beamer not being able to get over the hump. Recruiting disadvantages were argued about routinely and ultimately dismissed as fans thought Beamer just didnt have what it takes to step up into the big leagues. Fuente was brought in and suddenly there was an expectation not only that we wouldnt have a drop off but that he would elevate the program. That was probably a laughable expectation in hindsight. I guess through all this rambling my point is that my biggest fear is that Beamer was actually batting well above his weight class and now, without luck, we are seeing the new expected outcome.
I think its likely some of both. Fu has not shown that he is interested in recruiting by his coaching hires. VT is not a school that sells well to the highest-level recruits (as has been shown multiple times over 2 coaching staffs). I think a high-level recruiter could increase our recruiting to around a top 25 class, but not much further. I don't think VT is ever going to recruit in the top 10, or even consistently in the top 15. However, recruiting in the top 25 will get you occasional 10 win seasons (maybe 1 every 3-4 years) and likely no worse than 7-8 win seasons. That is a respectable place to be for most football programs. I would be really happy with that.
I think it's more about the college football landscape than anything else.
There are a lot of people (including Bud Elliott) who think VT is basically NC State, but happened to capitalize on (1) market inefficiencies that no longer exist, and (2) a down ACC/mid-Atlantic (eg, PSU, MD, UVA, etc all being down).
Whatever the case, the level of our conference and geographic rivals (on the field and in recruiting) is increasing. Clemson/PSU can take any recruit from PA to SC. UNC is picking up some talented leftovers (and stealing some players who are much better than leftovers). GT is about to start getting top 25 recruiting classes each year. GA and SCar are going to further pinch NC/SC.
Truth. Facts. Love it. The 2021 class is squarely mediocre at best. Just because hokie fans think a kid can be a stud in 3 years, doesn't make the class stack up against the better teams in the ACC.
Another reason it will be hard to get a coach to come here. Fuente double fucked us
FTFY.
Though, it's also easily our 2nd worst defense since at least 1992, and probably well before that, only a little better than the 2018 squad. And that is going to make for a highly volatile season.
SP+ has our defense at 39th, and that includes the liberty game. in 2018, our defense finished 77th overall. In 2010, our defense was 31st. This defense isn't terrible, but it is below standards for Virginia Tech. Frankly, this is the level of defense I was expecting during a scheme change in COVID.
I'm fairly certain that 39th place ranking still includes a lot of preseason projection. If we don't improve over the rest of the season, I expect we'll finish well outside the top 50 again.
Going off memory, I believe preseason projection is removed after the 6th game for each team. But I need to confirm.
Connelly made a change a few years back, making it so that the influence of the preseason projections drop off a bit after each game is played, but they are still included in every release except the final one, after bowls are played.
Sure, but at least one quarter of every game seems to be a throw away to "set up" some plays and another quarter seems to be spent trying to figure out the other teams adjustments. Corny does fine when he has all kinds of time to get a game plan together but short weeks an in-game is always a mess. This year he has been able to lean on the OL and run game, but the times that has struggled he hasn't been able to put together a passing game to get anything going this with players 3-4 years in the system. This is why I give Vice more credit than Corny.
The list of awful losses is bad, and even while Beamer had his later year losses, fans supported him because of his legacy of equally great seasons. Fuente doesn't have that legacy here, clearly, so I agree it's time to cut the cord.
Sadly, Fuente could have been a successful coach here, but it didn't break right. It would not surprise me if he resurfaces at another program in several years as a successful head coach. That said, he's in a hole here and I don't see him digging himself out. Good recruiting classes might point to a stronger future than we see today if we had them, but the trend line there is in the wrong direction. At best, we're hoping for a heavy crop of seniors to bail him out next year or the year after, with not much hope after that.
The problem with playing a waiting game to reduce the buyout is everyone can see the writing on the wall, including recruits and coaches. I'm a fan of take the heat and cut the cord on Dec 19. Hopefully, Whit is starting the search even now.
A couple of things...
1. Hard no on Grantham. Period.
2. I like the Shane Beamer thought. We could afford him. I love his energy. Players love him. And whatever issues he had with Va. high school coaches I'm sure could be mended (maybe).
3. Some dude on TSL supposedly knows one of the largest donors at Virginia Tech and is in regular communication with some of the higher ups at the university (I have no idea if its valid). He said that those donors and those higher ups are in no way interested in parting ways with Fuente - Not today - not tomorrow - not next season. There are other, more important things everyone is concerned about (just the messenger here on this one) right now. And as long as Fuente and Co. are not a public embarrassment to the institution they are fine.
If that's truly the mindset of the donors and admin, my Hokie Club donation will be gone and they never get another dime from me. What the hell other more important things athletically do we have to worry about other than the success of the football program? This school just seems clueless to me at this point.
Guess we will see what the mind set of the donors are. On the free side over at 24/7 Mehul posted he has a meeting/presentation with some large donors this week and is now nervous about it with the timing of the loss to the power house that is Liberty.
Totally agree. If this is acceptable to the big donors, why would I waste my money? This makes me want to never donate again, and unfortunately if that mindset sets in for our fanbase (if it hasn't already), then we're going to be the laughingstock of P5 football for the foreseeable future.
Regarding Shane, we can't recruit the state now so nothing to lose there
Did the TSL guy clarify if the big time donor mindset is more along the lines of "eh, it's not worth firing Fuente" or "we really like this guy"? If it is the latter, then they need to pony up and support Fuente with more $.
With more money, he either raises the tide or he sinks the boat faster (8-5 seasons and losing to "lesser opponents" is considered to be sinking the boat in my view).
I should add that if the big money comes in and we see some encouraging results, I'm much more inclined to open my wallet. Tech has a lot of alumni that are somewhat well-off, something has to spark the keg.
It came across as more like, "the football team isn't the most important thing here. Mediocrity is OK so long as the coach isn't embarrassing the institution."
I really have to wonder what the most important thing with VT Athletics is if it isn't the football program. That statement honestly infuriates me. And I would argue losing to an in-state school just a few years removed from being FCS with no history of football success is pretty embarrassing to the institution.
Again... from a guy on a message board who claims to know one of the biggest donors. Time will tell if he is accurate or not.
Most of the VT alums I know are big football fans and I'm sure that applies to most other alums as well.
Somebody or a group of somebodies (unfortunately I'm not the kind of personality) needs to start a VT movement that gets our alum base to fight for VT football. I'm sure the VT AD is already trying, but its not enough. I don't recall being approached individually about donations.
This is where it would be nice to have much more visibility in to the planning for the department. A strategic roadmap of what they want to accomplish and the activities that will drive those accomplishments. If there is a plan I would like to see it.
I've gone to plenty of non-sports discussions in the wake of yesterday's loss, and I still can't escape people mentioning that VT lost to Liberty. It was that bad and infamous, in the wide world of things.
We keep CJF around much longer, and I wonder if VT Football will ever be enjoyable again?
You need another trip to Chucktown to get your mind off things...
Maybe Miami, this time around. Binging on Boats n Hoes.
I hear Uncle Rico is ready to get back in the game
Haven't read any of the comments yet, but Bill Bedenbaugh, OL coach at Oklahoma and one of the best recruiters in the country. This would be in the Sam Pittman mold.
Is there anyone in the NFL, maybe at the coordinator level, that we see as potentially that being a move for?
Eric Bieniemy
He's going to get an NFL head coaching job this offseason or the next.
James Franklin might be looking for a new job soon. At least we know he can recruit in VA.
If Fuente does get fired can we at least keep Vice??
Sharing this because it struck me as the most level-headed commentary I've read since noon yesterday.
The points made are all pretty valid and make a lot of sense. If Fuente's buyout is too much to handle right now, hire the right new assistant at a fraction of that cost to help right the ship.
I saw this article earlier and have seen a few similar sentiments. My thought is, what is that realistically going to fix at this point? It all starts at the top. As frustrating and inconsistent as our offense is, it's still the best we have had since 2016. I keep seeing some people saying we need to can Corny as the sacrificial lamb of sorts. One, if Fu hasn't let him go by now, he never will. Second, it literally solves nothing and just smacks of desperation. Third, we just revamped the staff on one entire side of the ball - what gives anyone the confidence that Fu could even bring in better people than we have now? Kill basically told Fu he needed to replace Corny and he refused. If he won't listen to Kill, he won't listen to anyone. Any hopes and winning and recruiting at a remotely high level are done at VT until a new staff is onboard. Any thoughts to the contrary are delaying the inevitable.
Is there any truth to this?
It's been strongly hinted at by insiders that he told him Corn was dead weight and he needed to replace him, along with ZB. There's been enough smoke on that from several places, combined with the alleged near brawl story, that it seems like there's at least some truth to it.
Thanks for the insight.
What is this?
Somebody on here told a version of it, can't remember who. But essentially Kill was breaking down film with Corn and some other coaches and he told them he had no idea what he was doing. Tempers flared and everyone broke for dinner. Kill went his separate way and when they returned there was almost a confrontation.
You can thank Hokie07ME for the illustrious narrative
Choppin wood has a brief informative followup comment.
For what it's worth, I've heard rumors that Fuente wanted to replace Corny this offseason but didn't have the funding.
I keep hearing this but the logic doesn't add up when our entire on field staff payroll dropped because of the defensive side. Unless all that money went to support staff.
Or unless the school brought in less revenue than the previous year.
It solves two obvious problems for me:
1. Getting rid of a playcaller with absolutely zero strategic awareness
2. Anything and I mean ANYTHING Corny's replacement could offer in Recruiting would be an improvement. Even if his only responsibility was licking envelope seals he would still be contributing 100% more than Corny has to any of our recruiting efforts
Corny is dead weight. Shibest isn't much better.
We can moan and complain about VT not having enough resources or money devoted to football, but when your head coach keeps guys on his staff that don't make you better, the problem begins with the HC.
It's fairly normal these days for the head coach to do what he's really good at. Fuente should be running the offense and calling plays. Reallocate Corny's salary towards the "recruiting budget."
Fuente can go a long way in helping himself out here.
BTW, that isn't a referendum on the offense in general, but Corny specifically.
What if we promoted Vice? Obviously the man can recruit, look at our line. I have no clue his play calling ability, but he's got to have some. Also the man is probably the best culture fit in Blacksburg since bud. I'm willing to give him a chance at OC at least
I'd rather throw money at Jeff Grimes to be the OC, he was a great OL coach, can definitely recruit and is doing pretty well calling plays at BYU. He was only here for a year, but atleast there are some ties to BBurg
Can he recruit? He did great at LSU and Auburn, but who doesn't? Looking at 247, he hasn't landed a single recruit in VA, NC, or MD. Recruiting at BYU is a completely different animal, so you can't really judge him on his performance there.
I guess thats fair, but no one else on our offensive staff, at least I don't think, has any experience at blue blood programs. That could be valuable in and of it self, but I guess there's no hard science really behind X coach working at Y program.
We haven't really recruited well in VA, NC or MD recently have we? Having Grimes' ties to recruiting Texas and other parts of the country probably counts for something. But idk, I'm just throwing out ideas and playing fantasy AD. I guess at the end of the day I think we can do better than Corny, but I think he and Fu are a package deal unfortunately
The problem is loss of confidence by the fan base. No assistant coach will fix that. Defense is the problem at the moment but I do not think it has as much to do with coaching as talent, which was brought on by mistakes on the recruiting trail for years. There is no easy fix. It will take time and the worst has yet to come. I hope we are ready to live like the other half of college football for a while.
Some of us are already on the way there. I'm basically numb to the dumb losses now. And I know I'm not the only one. We're kidding ourselves if we think those dumb losses are going to get any fewer and further between. They're going to become so normal that they won't be dumb losses anymore. They'll be expected. We're only about two years away from that. In my estimation Fuente will still be on staff when that time comes. If Whit doesn't make some major changes (whether that's hiring a new coach or giving Fuente what he needs to hire necessary support staff) I think we're headed for Uva levels of suck in the next 5 years. And I don't think Whit will make those changes. So buckle up folks. We're about to become little brother for the first time in over 2 decades. The sting will hurt.
The whole thing with Kill coming here, the ship being righted and suddenly he bailed just struck me as strange. You come in as Superman saving the planet, the players love you to death, and at the end of the season you pack and leave? Why? I didn't like it that he left, wanted him to stay. Would love to know the real backstory but also afraid of what it might have been at this point. But bottom line on Kill, it worked once and Houston, we have a problem.
Edit: gotta love TKP...backstory posted before I got my comment in.
Edit #2: Having read all that, my opinion of Kill just keeps rising. I believe we have found our one man head coach search committee. "Coach Kill, your mission should you choose to accept it, it to find the next head coach for Virginia Tech. Choose wisely as you will be an assistant coach. We would like to keep Vice Tapp Lechtenberg and anyone else you recommend if that should be workable. You must report back before December 16th. This message will self destruct after you have listened to it"
Kill isn't some saviour. The side he supposedly improved (he didn't) is the side putting up record numbers with a legitimate running threat. Don't believe the rumors.
LOL...this is a laughable take.
Is Kill some savant or savior? probably not. Did he help our coaches get better? I think you can absolutely make that argument. To say he didn't help the offense improve (it did) is just ridiculous. But as evidenced by Herbert being out on Saturday, maybe Herbert improved this offense more than anyone else. Without him in the game we pretty much had to rely on Hooker playing hero-ball. And it almost worked. But the coaches managed to get in the way and f*** it all up. This offense is good. But offenses all over the country are having a great year this year. COVID seems to have had more of an impact on defenses this season. So take this year's offensive performances with a grain of salt. Even with the improvements this offense is still inconsistent and unreliable. It really only looks great when Herbert and Hooker both play well. If you take those two guys off the field this offense is butts. That's not a good sign. These coaches shouldn't be relying on two phenomenal talents for this offense to go. There doesn't appear to be any real development outside of the OLine. That's not good.
How is it laughable if you agree? I hope Kill improved some things or else it was a waste of resources. Did the coincidental drastic team improvement result directly from Kill, hell no. The praise some folks want to give him should result in him wearing a cape.
It's laughable because you're suggesting Kill had no hand in helping our offense get better. It's pretty clear that the offense improved when he was here. He was brought in to help the offense. The offense immediately improved. There's no way of knowing what really happened behind closed doors but it's pretty fair and reasonable to assume that Kill did help the offense get better. The offense did improve. You have to at least agree to that, right?
It's also laughable because you're implying that our offense is some record-breaking machine unlike anything we've ever seen. Granted, they have improved this year relative to recent years but it's not hard to break records these days. The game is evolving in a way that favors the offense. You're seeing teams all over the country have offensive booms. Offense is in at the moment. It's also not that surprising because VT was so far behind the trend with offense that it was never going to be terribly difficult to make VT's specific offense a lot better.
I mean, even considering the boom across the country, our boom is bigger since we're all the way up in the top 10 in offensive SP+ and #16 in offensive FEI, both of which would probably be at their highest point since 2000 if they were to calculate such things for past seasons.
But, yes, it is laughable to claim that Kill had no influence over our offensive improvements, even if he isn't still in the coaching room today. He was brought in to help lead the offensive staff in the right direction, and by all accounts it sounds like he did exactly that.
He was credited mostly with improving the running game. One very essential thing happened to improve the running game last year, Willis was removed from behind center. This year, specifically in the running game, we have looked even better with a legitimate running back in Herbert. Again, I am not slamming Kill. But Nick Saban couldn't have single handedly made some of the improvements people were crediting Kill for.
I'm not the people you're talking about. I think Kill helped the offense. I don't think he wears a cape (or should)
I do think that our coaches are failing to do their jobs adequately. I like Fuente. Seems like a nice enough guy. I don't like how he has performed at his job. I don't think Cornelson is doing him any favors. I feel for the defensive staff because they've been dealt a pretty piss-poor hand and they're doing what they can with what they've got. It's ugly and our defense is pretty bad but it's hard to really blame them. They're still not getting the job done, though. Special teams is average. Shibest is probably a fine coach but he's not worth what he's getting paid IMO.
And none of that even touches recruiting and fan engagement. Those two things are critically important for the success of the VT program and these coaches are absolutely awful at both.
We can argue all day and night about whether we should blame the offense or the defense for any given loss. But the fact of the matter is that we're losing lots of games that we shouldn't be losing. That is squarely on the coaches. They need to be changed. Full stop.
That article seemed to be a somewhat plausible path forward, but based on some of the other responses, it seems like there were issues with this approach the first time that Whit tried it and unless he and Fu come to an understanding, it will likely have the same outcome the second time around. The other problem that Whit will have to deal with is...the buyout. What's to stop Fuente from telling Whit to shove it up his ass and he'll run the program like he wants and if Whit/VT AD doesn't like it they can buy him out? I run into the same thing everyday dealing with subcontractors on my project site. It's a delicate dance between directing and managing and I don't envy Whit's position over the next month or two.
Yeah, I'm gonna say it.
Rich Rodriguez.
I look forward to this every time. Thanks.
You should use that Hologram this time around.
I wish my workplace wanted me gone so bad they'd pay me $12.5 million to leave.
I could easily get onboard with being fired in style like that.
A CFB coach, every time they get fired:
Mark Richt?
Great movie!
I am definitely missing something though. What sort of baggage does he have? Other than being tied to Miami. I'm not in the know.
I mean... have you watched a single ACCN broadcast this season? Dude is totally checked out at this point.
that is what I was thinking as well. He didn't have the energy at Miami, and he looks out of it every time he's on the air. Its like he's constantly being woken up from a nap and told "OK, you're on in 5, 4, 3..."
I'm told by everyone who's met him that he's a really nice guy. I assume he's enjoying retirement and probably not as jazzed about being an ACCN commentator as some of the younger guys on the network.
As far as him being the head coach in Blacksburg: that's a no for me.
Don't forget he also had a heart attack. I'd be the same way. He's def not coaching again
https://twitter.com/MarkRicht/status/1325876569001353217?s=19
KILL IT WITH FIRE
With our budget? Bryan Steinspring
I'd rather keep JF or offer to a GA at Clemson. Just hearing Stinespring's name can upset my stomach.
Less of a real suggestion and more of a commentary on VT's football coach budget
Got it. Thanks for the clarification - and the laugh of 100th or worse ranked offenses of days gone by. Can you imagine what VT could have been if we had even an average offense in those years?
I spent years saying exactly that. A mediocre offense would've made us a great team.
Don't just walk in here, with a semi-plausible possibility that may actually work, if only because he wouldn't be an OC.
For starters, he won't have Beamer to over rule him and go conservative on big time decisions. The players loved playing for him, and he could recruit. He can focus on what he's good at, and let the rest of it go from there.
Not saying, just saying.
The question is, can he STILL recruit? He's been doing his FCS world tour and hasn't had to recruit against the "big dogs" in a while. And I'd say the recruiting and social media climate has changed significantly since his time at VT (even without the pandemic)
Stiney could actually work if we went worth the Clemson model. Stiney is personable and a great recruiter but horrible OC. Surround him with a good OC and DC and support staff I bet he would fare well better Fu has.
I think Whit could sell this to fans if Stiney had stayed in the Power 5. But since leaving VT he's been at JMU, UMD, ODU, and Delaware. That's a tough sell to fans - you'd have to hire Mike Vick as QB coach to sell that one (and no, that's not remotely realistic).
You can talk to any recruit and the family, kids we landed and kids we lost, and the overwhelming majority say they absolutely loved Stiney. He's a home run recruiter, and amazing OL and TE coach, and a horrible OC.
It would certainly be a HUGE gamble, but if he could build a staff, and I'm convinced we could start getting talent back to Blacksburg, VT could certainly benefit.
Shocked I had to scroll this far down before someone said it. Thanks for restoring my faith in the power of humor.
Dave Clawson. Not sure if he'd come, but he has a great eye for talent, he does a great job developing his players, and he rarely gets out coached.
I think he could identify and recruit VT type players (mid to upper 3* kids with a few blue chippers sprinkled in) and develop those guys.
This is going to be the peak of our recruiting and I think we can win with this model if you are capable of developing your players to be contributors when they are juniors and seniors.
I agree with this comment but it's sad that this is what VT recruiting is now. If you look back to
20162018-- 7 of our 23 enrollees were 4* recruits. That was the promise of Fuente...the future was bright. I think Fuente could definitely do a lot more if we had a bigger recruiting budget but even at the current $ he is underperforming as the classes just keep getting worse from an immediate difference maker perspective.Edit: Fixed year
And let's take a look at those 4 stars, shall we?
Devon Hunter- Never made an impact and won't play at VT again. Bud didn't coach him up or find a spot for him, and Fu couldn't keep him from being arrested and charged with a felony
Nation Proctor- Never contributed, gone from VT
Dylan Rivers- Special teams player prior to nagging injuries. Wasn't going to unseat Rayshard Ashby
Ty Garbutt- Up and down- did become a starter his Jr. year. Left the team earlier this year for personal reasons, is back now. Decent ACC DE.
Hendon Hooker- Starting QB. Lived up to and was coached into his ranking. Good job here.
Dax Hollifield- Backup MLB 3 years into the program.
Tre Turner- better than average ACC receiver- can't call this a miss. Good Job here
Quincy Patterson- 3rd year in the program, 3rd string QB
Jeremey Webb- never contributed, critical injuries
Alan Tisdale- contributor
James Mitchell- one of the better tight ends/WRs in the ACC- great job here.
That's not a great hit %.... it's just not.
One correction:
As I see it, there are 4 complete busts (2 purely due to injuries) out of the 11 players you mentioned. 3 more have come up slightly short of expectations but are still key contributors on the team. And the other 4? One is a sure bet for inclusion on the all-ACC lists this year, and the other 3 have potential to do the same, if not this year then probably next.
I'm not an expert, but those sound like perfectly reasonable numbers to me, especially considering that they're all in their 3rd or 4th years with time left to grow, even without COVID making this year not count towards eligibility clocks.
I think the hit rate is fine, but the quantity needs to increase. Which is why these last two classes is/are so devistating.
That much is absolutely true.
I think the hit rate on 4* is an interesting thing to look at but the bigger problem is that in 2020 and 2021 we have a hit rate sample size of N=1 to look at lol
I would say that Tre Turner has not lived up to his 4* billing. It could be because of nagging injuries, it could be because of a lack of creative passing attack, it could be because of the QB situation (HH isn't a traditional passing QB)... who knows. But Tre's production hasn't panned out in quite the way a 4* WR's production should pan out.
I agree and I think it is a little bit of all of those things. I think Tre would make an excellent number 2 receiver. I thought we were going to sorely miss Hazelton too but he isn't exactly lighting things up either. It would definitely help if we had a little more traditional passing attack but I don't know if Hooker would be up for it.
It is unrealistic to think a head coach can control an adult's actions 100% of the time. Hunter being arrested is not on Fuente.
Clawson is one of those coaches that makes sense on paper, but doesn't get the fan base excited.
OK... hear me out on this:
VT should hire...
Steve Bannon and Roger Stone to run the football program.
They would take over TKP, TSL, and all the internal Hokie football media to create an alternate reality for VT fans whereby VT wins the championship every year, and if they don't it's because the other team cheated and the refs stole the game (which is what we already want to believe anyway).
Who cares who the coach is? Or what actually happens on the field? Or if a game was even played?
Fans would be galvanized and rabid. Donations would quintuple. Hokie football would be the greatest brand ever. They'd win so much, fans would get sick of winning and say "No more winning. Please. It's too much winning."
**Added bonus: Steve's an alum so we'd get to hire someone already familiar with the culture and the program but who also has a proven track record elsewhere.
Hot take.
I found this funny, but may be a CG issue....
It's blatantly a CG issue
Ditto... i see the humor, but it crossed the community guidelines.
Please don't. Thanks!
Thank you for actively getting downvoted into oblivion so I could chuckle at this.
But yeah, I agree that is is very much against CG.
False premise. Somebody had to hire Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, and Lincoln Riley for their first job. There could be a G5 coordinator out there that is a brilliant head coaching mind that would have VT competing with Clemson in 4 years. You don't know. Re-treads often DON'T work out, in fact. The real honest question is that can VT hire a head football coach that can beat Liberty, ODU and Kentucky - when they didn't have a real QB on the active roster? The answer to that is unequivocally, yes. Nobody expects multiple national championships or top 5 recruiting classes. What realistic VT fans DO expect is to not lose to G5 in state schools in embarrassing fashion and having more than one competent RB that can play in games. VT fans do expect an ACC level defensive line. The answer to those questions is : many coaches out there that can do better.
I don't always agree with dcwilson40 but when I do it's because they are absolutely correct.
And dc is clearly right here. VT can do better than Fuente. We don't have to get the next Dabo to do better than Fuente. Our fans want to compete for the ACC and, in really good years, maybe once or twice a decade, sneak into the playoff. We've gotten further and further from that in the last 3 years. We're not looking for a coach who will win 3 National Championships in 10 years. We're looking for a coach who can recruit with the rest of the ACC and get the most out of the players every weekend. A coach who can consistently beat the weaker teams on the schedule. Losing to a bad team once or twice a decade is forgivable. Losing to 5 inferior teams in 5 years is not. There are dozens of coaches out there that VT can afford who would do a better job than Fuente.
VT will never sneak into the playoff - let's be realistic. You can compete for the coastal - but it would take Mike Vick like lightning in a bottle to make the playoff. Don't make it an expectation. That's the fundamental problem here - we think we should be competing for the playoff - we are not on that plane and never will be unless the playoff expands to 16 teams.
1 this is super defeatist. 2 in 2016 we were relatively close to beating Clemson in the ACC CG which would have gotten us to the playoff so it's not as unreasonable to think Tech could sneak in than you think. I definitely don't think we'll ever sniff the playoff with Fuente or if he's not fired after this season. But there's still enough opportunity right now for the right guy to come in, recruit well, build a competent staff, have the ball bounce the right way on a special night in the acccg and sneak into the playoffs. But the real expectation for this program is that we're even competing for ACC titles. We're not even close right now. Fuente must go.
Not even close to true.
Yeah we would have had to win the three games we lost before that. All of which were extremely winnable. Should've been a warning sign about the Fuente tenure
Being realistic doesn't make it defeatist...
I can say with good certainty, with a 4 team playoff: VT will never win a NCAA Football Championship, will probably never be in the CFB Playoff, and our program goal is to win the division and play in/win win the ACCCG.
If the playoff is moved to 16... I still don't think we would ever win it, we may win a game or two at most.
Agreed. And with Fuente we're not even close to that right now. Beamer had us there, though, and I believe with the right coach VT can be back to competing for ACC titles... I think it is absolutely fair and reasonable to expect VT to contend for conference titles.
That being said....
I never said that fans should expect to win the whole damn thing but I do think it is reasonable to get into the Playoff with a really good year. If we win 10 to 12 regular season games and win the ACC CG (which Beamer proved we could do) that should be enough to land us a spot in the Playoff.
If you think a reasonable program goal is to play in and occasionally win the ACCCG then you're essentially saying that the program goal is to compete for the ACCCG and occasionally sneak into the playoff. The ACC Champion has been in the 4 team more often than not.
The program has never won more than 11 games in a single season, so I'd say 12 regular season wins would require us to break our glass ceiling. To that end, only one team to make the playoff had less than 12 wins (2015 OU at 11-1 b/c the B12 didn't play a championship game), and there's never been a 2 loss of playoff team.
Not really - each year at least one conference champion is left out of the playoff.
TL;DR - For now, let's shoot for winning ACC. We can readjust expectations after we get back to that level.
This is such BS reasoning
Clemson has demonstrated that if you win the ACC, even with a regular season loss, you can get into the playoff. I just don't understand how people can look at that and then say that the goal of this program is to compete for and occasionally win ACC championships but that we couldn't sniff the playoff. Like, what kind of mental gymnastics are you doing to reach those conclusions.
Look, I'm not saying that VT should be expected to get into the playoff every year. But I think VT is a program that can be reasonably expected to contend for ACC championships. And part of the deal with winning the conference is that you get a shot at the playoff. If VT goes 11-1 and wins the ACCCG they probably get in. It's not that far-fetched!
I'm just saying that losing one game or less is a lot harder than winning the conference, and that's what will ultimately keep us out of the playoff. 1999 and 2000 were the only seasons we entered bowl season with 1 loss or less. In 2005 and 2011 we entered the ACCCG with one loss - both times we loss in the ACCCG.
Win one of those, and we're likely in. What's your point? I'm not expecting VT to be in the playoff every year or even once every 5 years. But I think if this program is expected to be competing for ACC titles then it will be in position at least once a decade, with a great season, to get a shot at the playoff. Everyone seems to think it's equivalent to colonizing Jupiter. It really isn't that far out of the question.
2005, maybe, we could argue that we'd be 4th but let's face it anOSU would get picked ahead of us. Winning the ACCCG in 2005 would get us no really help since FSU wasn't ranked or very good. A committee will always pick OSU if close.
In 2011 our SoS was terrible, the only good team we played was Clemson. We were 5th going in to the ACCCG and while #4 Stanford lost, Oregon was 6th and beat them which would have likely jumped us as Clemson was 21st.
I dont see VT making the Playoffs unless they are undefeated, TCU lost by 3 on the road to an 11-1 team and got jumped by OSU who got their ass handed to them by a 6-6 VT team. We don't have unbiased opinions like computers to help anymore. The OUs, Bamas, anOSUs get the benefit of the doubt. VT won't.
You're citing a bunch of games before the playoff era. If VT wins the ACC they have a legitimate shot at the playoff. I'm not talking about 2005. Whether or not you belive VT can get to Charlotte and beat Clemson to win the ACC is not the point. The point is that if VT does that, they have a shot.
And there are people on here who are absolutely fine with the idea that VT should be competing for ACC titles.
Clemson is worlds above us... We only competed and won ACC Championships cuz our division has been trash for 10 years and we got lucky the Atlantic was just as bad mid to late 2000s into early 2010s.
Clemson dismantles everyone they play essentially, so to lose one close away game for them, they're given much more slack than a team like VT who used to win the non conference games easily but never really separated themselves from the in-conference teams.
If we ever win the ACC again, it'll probably be a 2 or 3 loss team getting lucky in the ACCCG, that won't be enough to get us into a playoff.
I would expect us to need to be a one (close) loss team, with the one loss being against a ranked team, and then winning the ACC against a Clemson type to ever go to the playoff. And as someone pointed out before, we've only had our surprised 11 regular season wins once.
Therefore, needing to be that one loss team, in this day in age will probably never happen. I'm my opinion, we have a much higher chance of winning the NCAA Basketball Championship than Football Championship going forward.
Yes, yes they are. But to compete for ACC Championships (apparently a reasonable expectation) means getting up to their level and being able to beat them (and we didn't actually look too far away from that in 2016)
If Clemson is so dominant it's not likely luck will help us beat them. Just sayin...
Yeah and my whole entire point is that if the expectation is to, essentially, do exactly that, then we'll be setting ourselves up for an outside shot at the Playoff. And yet, people seem to think that's completely unreasonable.
You can't expect this team to ever compete for ACC Championships against Clemson if you also think it's impossible that VT will ever sniff the playoff. If you think competing for conference titles is a reasonable expectation then you think it's reasonable to expect VT to beat a modern day Clemson. If you think it's impossible to even fathom that Tech could ever be in such a position then you don't think it's reasonable to expect VT to compete for ACC championships. The two are not mutually exclusive. If you win the ACC you have a very, very real shot at the playoff. If you don't think VT can ever reach the playoff then you don't think VT ever has a shot at winning the ACC. Pick your expectation.
Either
1. You think VT should be able to compete for the ACC (and thus, have a shot at the playoff)
OR
2. You think VT will never be on Clemson's level (and thus, will never compete for the ACC)
You can't have both, can't have neither. It's one, or the other. Right now, you're saying both. Or neither. I'm not sure, actually.
I definitely think we can compete to win the coastal and hopefully put up a fight with Clemson in the ACC championship year in and year out. But there's a difference between just winning the division and dominating the division like Clemson does. To run through teams each and every week to the point where you can have an off game or lose your starting quarterback and still be double digits better than the team you're playing is elite. To have a dog fight in the division and be the last man standing is a whole different deal and not one that puts you in the playoffs even if we do beat Clemson. Scenario number 2 there is where I want this program to get back to. Having a team like 2015 UNC (but actually beating Clemson) every 10 years might not be equal to colonizing Jupiter, but it's also just not realistic.
So, in worlds above us, how did 2016 happen? We played in the ACCCG and lost to Clemson by 7 points. We're not there now, but we weren't there the 2 years before 2016 either. We can get the right coach and be there again. The question is how likely is it? I have no idea, but it's certainly well within the realm of possibility.
I mean, Liberty just beat us. Surely, by your logic, they are at our level or ahead of us, yes? And if Liberty is at our level, we are world's behind Clemson. I don't really see how this is even a debate.
Did you even read what I said? What is it about what I said that makes you think that Liberty was always able to and will always be able to beat us, because that's the logic you're using. They beat us THIS year. My point was that a few years ago, we were close to Clemson in the ACCCG. I said we're not there now, and we weren't there 2 years before that, so we should be able to get there again. But saying that Clemson is world's better than us suggests their program could always beat us by, what 21 points, since they started winning championships, and that's not true. We lost by 7 to Clemson, the eventual National Champs in 2016.
No it doesnt lol. You just made that shit up off the top of your head. I don't see how any fan with a level head on their shoulders could sit here today and think that VT showed anything within the past 5 years to suggest we are in the same stratosphere as a team that has made multiple finals and won multiple championships. It's astounding actually the football delusion some people live in.
And all of that from....one close ACCCG?
Am I delusional that we won 10 games that same year? As opposed to the number of wins the year we beat Ohio State (7, the same year as the infamous 3-6 loss to Wake). I contend we were actually pretty damn good in 2016 - why does that make me delusional? We've been up and we've been down. Why is it such a stretch to think if we could get a good coach who can also recruit, that we couldn't be slightly more competitive than we were in 2016 and actually come away with the win. And if I recall correctly, we were marching down the field on them at the end of the game, when we were on their 23 and Evans' pass was intercepted. One play different and we could have tied it. I made up 21 points, sure, but what is your definition of "worlds better?" Beating us by 14? That's a loss, but hardly the type of demolition I'd call "worlds better." How good would we be THIS year if we had better play calling and a stout defense? We'd be a LOT freaking better.
Thinking Liberty is as good as VT as a program based on one win is no less delusional than thinking VT is anywhere close to Clemson based off one close game (one on which Clemson never broke a sweat when we closed the gap)
I sure as hell didn't say that. That was something Koastal Kings came up with and called it my logic. I don't believe that for a second. We sure as hell should have beaten them this year and every year. I don't understand the "logic" Koastal used to get there. I think he was saying that because I said we were close to Clemson one year means we're almost as good as them every year, and I didn't even say that. I said we were that good one year, we can get back there.
How many conference championship teams did Beamer have that would also win it today with Clemson in the way? Yes if we win the ACC there is a good chance we go to the playoff.
LOL. If you expect VT to contend for ACC titles and then admit that if VT wins the ACC they have a good shot at the playoff then you're agreeing with me
I am. Why would you assume just because somebody replies to your comment that he/she is disagreeing? What I may not have clarified though is that I hear a lot of people say that if we get back to our ACC championship caliber teams of the Beamer years, we will be a playoff team. But we are still not likely going to be ACC Champions now even with those teams. We have never beaten the likes of a modern Clemson on our way to a conference championship. So, while I am agreeing with you, it is still a tough hill to climb.
Yes, this is true.
Sorry I got so defensive. It's just kind of mind boggling to me that people think it's reasonable to expect VT to compete for ACC championships but in the same breath will proclaim that VT will never have a shot at the Playoff when competing for ACC titles means competing with Clemson and therefore must be good enough to get past them in the ACC. A team that is good enough to do that is going to be in playoff contention.
I am not saying that I think VT can or will do those things. I'm just saying that if the expectation is to win the ACC (or put another way, beat Clemson), then a team that can do that will be sniffing the playoff. It's insane to me that someone can be okay with the expectation of winning the conference and then puff their chest out saying that the playoff is not, and absolutely never will be, in reach. Like, the two are not mutually exclusive. If you win the ACC you stand a pretty good shot at the playoff. Plain. And. Simple.
But thanks for clearing up your view...I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way
You most definitely are not. It should be obvious after however many years of the playoff that teams that are contending for conference championships, especially those that do so consistently, are in the CFP conversation. Winning your conference pretty much puts you in the top 6. Sure, in order to actually get in you have to limit your losses, but the teams that consistently get to their CGs are the teams that don't lose very often.
Tf lol? No, we dont make the playoffs if we beat Clemson that year. You don't really think that, do you?
Agree except for the RB comment. Blackshear is competent enough, he's just not getting his share of plays because 1) Herbert is killing it when he's in the game, and 2) our play calling seems unable to recognize a ball carrier not named "Herbert" or "Hooker".
Also not being utilized correctly (he's only had like 4 balls thrown to him in 7 games)
As a great reviewer said if you want the QB to stop keeping on option plays you don't want an option offense.
We run a LOT of QB powers though. Outside of the 5 yard line they seem desperate. It's near-guaranteed efficiency, but you just can't be running your qb 20 times a game. This is why Jerod Evans left.
No, Jerrod left because he decided before he even got here that he was a one and done because he thought he was going to be NFL ready after one year here. Seen that many many times. All the running may not have helped to try to change his mind, but his mind was made up and the world telling him he wasn't ready did nothing to change his mind either.
Yeah and worst part is he would've probably gone in rounds 2-4 had he stayed the extra year
the more I spend time around college football fans the more I'm convinced that college football fans don't understand what makes a player a good draft prospect lol
Preach!
You don't think he would have? I mean assuming he became better at seeing the field after the first read, which isn't that much of a stretch.
I'm not saying he deserved the pick but he's 6'4, huge an got a big arm. Hell even Thomas went in the 4th round for size and arm strength.
I think if one more year would have been enough to adequately prepare him for rounds 2-4 he would probably be playing in the NFL right now. I trust NFL scouts far more than message board posters.
People pick bad QB's during those rounds all the time though. A good comparison is Bryce Petty, had absurd stats, mainly through quick short passes and Art Briles system. Probably wouldn't have been drafted his junior year and went 4th round after his senior season.
His career has been pretty comparable to Evans
The skill set the Jerod showed wasn't the same as the skill set Bryce Petty showed in college though.
One-read-and-run works in college, not in the league. It's harder to learn later on to boot.
It's somewhat apples to oranges because Petty wasn't a wrecking ball and Jerod didn't play his senior season. But Petty was very reliant on the first read his junior season in 2013 and improved as a passer senior year.
Sure, I should adjust "probably" to "possibly". But it really doesn't matter because we'll never know, and we agree he was drafted appropriately after 2016.
Of course not. One more year of college to develop, is a college football fans way of saying we want him to stay.
Develop what? Ram his head into the DL a little bit more? Under a head football coach that clearly isn't capable of developing players at VT. Do we need to get into the evidence or have you come to terms?
If he had the ability he would have been on a roster.
If VT runs an "option" offense - period, I guess it's just coincidence that hooker runs a lot more on designed plays when we are behind or in panic mode.
Totes malotes, and there are absolutely good coaches out there
Do have to disagree with the retreads part though. Spurrier had an amazing run at USCe, sabans return to cfb has been amazing, carroll was a retread too. I mean it can work albeit one thing all of these guys had in common: they were never fired from a cfb job just an nfl gig
I wouldnt even call them retreads when they drop back from the NFL
If we hire Adam Gase after this year I am O-U-T.
(just kidding, I'd still be here, in denial as always)
Since we're in hypothetical land, if you could hire a defensive mind as head coach and keep Fuente (for Corn's salary) as Offensive Coordinator, would you?
ABSOLUTELY, our offense is great, but the play calling is mind numbing
I don't know if Fuente would agree to it, but may help us with recruits and keep what looks to be a promising (not great, but promising) recruiting class.
My hot take: I have reversed on wanting to fire Fuente. I've calmed down and stepped back to take a look at it and unfortunately I think the damage has already been done. I don't think any coach can come into this mess of recruiting, perception, player attitude, and fan engagement and fix it so I finally agree that we shouldn't waste any money hastily firing Fuente. I think we are better off keeping him simply because I think he has already broken the program and the buyout is just a bigger hole. I think whit, if he holds such a power, should go around Fuente to fire Cornhole. I think we should treat J Ham as an interim DC and continue our search. I think we should negotiate with Fuente to see if he would come down on the buyout to avoid his perception being hurt more by being fired. But I don't think we should fire him anymore. We missed the window and just got delivered a kill shot. I also think bringing a second coach into this mess and allowing them to fail would dig the hole deeper. I think as long as Fuente is here, we can still point to him as scapegoat for the program status, two failed coaches puts it on the university. We need to raise our prestige capital back a little higher and wait for that buyout to come down, then ruthlessly replace when it makes the most sense
The funny thing is because of COVID and "How Fuente handled the team", someone might actually want to lure him away from us and maybe someone will. I was as surprised about the Baylor Situation last year especially after the Duke loss and not so good ending to the season. In a way I hope this is the case, but that's very ideal and my dreams don't always come true so.....Here goes a few things.
Fuente loves blacksburg, he likes the fact that there aren't any major media outlets bugging him. Since he is so reserved from fans and media and having that small town setting, he thrives being here. Secondly if you hear him in press conferences, the man has got coach speak down and he owns every bad loss and gives credit to players and assistant coaches on every win. That bit of it while very good in terms of his character is not good enough to get us quality wins or win us the ACC or the national title. I believe that he was truly good for the Group of 5 at Memphis but he's not quite good for Power especially coaching an ACC coastal team which is in an unpredictable division.
The other thing is his offense is somewhat predictable midway through the season and any games with Plus-2 turnovers by us will end-up in a loss. Our defense is gotten worst since his arrival, maybe some of that is on Bud i was really surprised by the hiring of Hamilton who had very little experience in position coaching at the power 5 level.
As for hiring a coach if it comes to that, most likely we will a Group of 5 coach. Hey why not give Sonny Dykes another chance.
🙏
It's not good when the head coach doesn't see the value in media attention whether that's national, regional, or local.
re: the 2nd quote - isn't this the complete opposite of what any coach would want while trying to (re) build a brand?
100% yes, he hasn't demonstrated he understands the bigger picture nor does he get he has to sell his program.
re: the 2nd quote - isn't this the complete opposite of what any coach would want while trying to (re) build a brand?
Right on Hokirif, that's why I put that out there, I should have more more meat in the sentence - I started at VT in 1995, Beamer was already building the Brand with his special teams stamp and we clearly see a steady progress from 1995 to 2000 leading up to the National Championship. By Building the brand, you will get guys like Michael Vick, then eventually Kevin Jones, DeAngelo Hall, Tyrod Taylor and Macho Harris. Clemson was building up long before they got Trevor Lawrence and Reese
Mack Brown has a weekly interview on GameDay and has completely embraced the media in the Raleigh region.
Justin Fuente limits media access and is thankful that he doesn't have national media pressure in Blacksburg.
UNC is using the media, regional and national, as another arm of their recruiting process that they don't have to pay for. We are limiting access and openly cold toward all of our regional media sites. And we're sitting here scratching out heads why UNC is kicking our ass on the recruiting trail.
I've seen you make this point a couple times now and you're right. The more I think about it the less sense it makes for the staff. Given the financial limitations at VT, even before COVID, why would you intentionally cut yourself off from what is essentially free marketing? Doesn't add up. Especially if the reason is just "I don't like media". At least when he came in Fuente made it appear that we had super secret plans that we didn't want anyone to know about. Now it seems like he's just like... nah.
I'll be the asshole here and tell the truth, it has been intentionally shrugging off some and leaning toward others.
This comment prompted a realization. I've lived in the DC area for getting close to 20 years now. Blacksburg is four hours away, but DC has a large VT alumni base. I recall that sometime during the late aughts, Frank Beamer called into one of the local radio programs before a big game (maybe Boise State) just to talk about things.
I was wondering: has that ever happened with FU? I haven't heard him on the radio here (though that may be my schedule). I see occasional articles, but not much that is interesting. DC area writers, even in the best of times, had little incentive to cover Tech. Now that we're not winning, why should they bother?
If we had a coach that was more media inclined, they could work things to get more attention.
Instead, I see the commercial with all the ACC coaches and out of all those coaches, Fuente comes across as the least personable and most monotone.
If I'm a kid, why would I want to play for a coach like that, particularly when he's not winning?
Fm 106.7 Tech Talk Live.
Be prepared, he is who he appears to be when talking on that show. Its pretty painful to listen to. Looking forward to them prioritizing CMY on the show going forward.
Bball can't come soon enough. I wanna feel the leather in my hands and forget about pigskins
After my Graduation in 2000, I almost got all my VT news from the washington post and also coverage on local sports shows like 106.7. Beamer even came onto Eliott in the Morning on DC 101. Right now with FU it seems there is no DC presence at all. I guess Tech talk live is still on but I haven't listened to it lately.
250+ comments in and no one brought up that Houston Nutt is recharged and ready to lead your football team to the Cotton Bowl
Tony Elliot pls
What about DHall? He wanted to coach and actively tried to get on in Washington and VT. Maybe not HC but getting him on staff would help counteract the Dre Bly effect in the 757.
Give me Rex Ryan, I think he could do well but a pipe dream at best and his personality isn't the best fit, but I bet he could recruit he's got the personality and coaching experience. If we're going for realistic possibilities Shane is up there, and so is Kendall Briles.
What makes you think Rex Ryan can recruit?
He's been an NFL coach that is now seen on TV on Sunday's and he's got a personality. Let's not forget he's also one hell of a defensive coach. His personality would be a turn off from a lot of Tech fans though so no way I see it happening.
There is a lot more to recruiting than being on TV sometimes. You have to want to put in that effort and a lot of NFL HCs havent had to do that.
Don't know if I'm the first to suggest this but lets buyout Fuente then lobby Whit to hire a coach but decisions are run through TKP
Pretty sure Willie Fritz would pay us to coach at a P5 school at this point. Let him take over for a couple years, he can bring the 4* qb he just recruited to freaking Tulane, save some money, and make a big splash in a couple of years. (sort of /s)
Hear me out:. Hugh Freeze.
Ducks. Kinda.
We have enough Hookers around the program already.
I wouldn't hate it
I know he's a sleaze-bag but lots of coaches are these days. I just want to win
I just want to win some high 4* and 5* recruiting battles.... Do that and winning will follow...
yeah I agree with you there. Fuente is not winning enough of those recruiting battles and, therefore, not winning enough games. I want a coach who can win more of those recruiting battles and translate those wins to wins on the field. Fuente has proven in his 5 years that he can build a better offense than the one we had. He's also proven that he can't recruit the type of talent necessary to compete in the ACC (which, quite frankly, is one of the weaker P5 conferences). At the end of the day, I don't care how good your scheme is, if the other side of the ball is much more talented you're only going to get so far against them. Talent is important and his scheme isn't enough to overcome talent deficits.
If we're throwing names out, what about Aaron Morehead? I don't know what higher level experience he has other than being a wide receiver coach at Tech, A&M, and now with the Eagles. He seemed to be a pretty popular guy while he was here. Developed both Ford and Cam into great receivers and did a solid job recruiting at both Tech and A&M.
He's jumped around a bunch, but remained a WR coach at every spot. You'd like to see him either jump around to different offensive positions or at least have be an Assistant Head Coach somewhere.
He also went nuts on twitter (over losing Tate Martell!!!) and lost another recruit in the process
Regarding Shane Beamer - would make a great story for him to be the head whistle and be successful. At the same time, the rumor he wants a bigger program to lead is believable and he's in a position to reach for it. And he's got a heck of good advisor in his old man as to if VT would be a good landing place for him one day. I'd love to know ol' Frank's appraisal of the VT football ceiling right now. He might surprise us.
Y'all can't deal with Fuente going 8-4 yet are throwing out names of guys who have never been a head coach to replace him? This makes zero sense lmao
The bigger issue is that we aren't recruiting well enough to sustain 8-4. We might win 6 games this year. Next year we probably win 6 or 7. After that we'll be lucky to win more than 4. We need a coach who is willing to recruit. We need a coach who is good at recruiting. Most of our standout players are from the portal and that is not the recipe for success
I'd argue that that coach will also need to be able to develop at a high level and win close games. We don't have the budget or name recognition to get a ton of 4 and 5 stars. (Yes UNC is doing it and I don't really know how but I don't think there a clear path to replicated that.)
We need to get #15-25 classes in the country each year and develop the shit out of them. If we go for recruiting alone we may get one good class then drop off the map. Getting someone like a Mike Locksley would be the worst type of hire we could make.
We are so far away from that happening at Tech under Fuente it is laughable to even think about.
via GIPHY
Here is an observation- I see UVA going after bigger guys that are not high star recruits. Maybe that is their niche. We seem to go after small guys that are non OL recruits. UVA fields a big team, as do many of our competitors. Our guys look small and are getting pushed around, especially on defense.
I agree but I also see people here calling for hiring decisions that would almost certainly plunge us into total irrelevance (and believe me we are not even close to that right now).
I won't complain with Luke Fickell or Matt Campbell, but if the guy isn't there there's no reason to force the move.
I hate to break it to you, but Virginia Tech football is quite irrelevant. I'm pretty sure every game this season has been on a third-tier network/broadcast. Tech-Miami is a noon ESPN2 kickoff. Outside of the Tech faithful, no one cares about this team. The program has taken on the identity of its head coach, bland.
I don't want Fuente replaced for the sake of it either, but I am quite concerned at how deep the hole gets in 2021 if Fuente returns.
The hole in 21 is going to be about the same either way. The hole in 22, 23, etc could get way worse if Fuente stays unless he pulls off a miracle finish this year. The same future years could be bad if we can't build the program back with quality hires. We are not putting enough money into the program today and I have zero faith we will put enough into it on top of a buyout.
If I am Whit, I am sweating bullets. The odds of pulling out of this in the next five or six years are very low. The unlikely Fuente miracle may be a higher percentage play. Or, hope for Fuente to bail on his own so we can reset without the throw away money of the buyout. Regardless, we need to throw more money at the next try. Maybe even go into red on a leap of faith. I don't know, but this is how programs spiral into forever mediocrity. It is frightening to think about.
Additional thought: coaches can't win without talent and talent rarely picks schools that aren't winning (or have a huge name). The formula is not easy and it is why schools struggle to rise up from mediocrity. It takes a bit of luck. I always thought the Hokie faithful was enough to keep us a notch above other schools in our tier, but we have seen the faithful start to become faithless. I have no great solutions to offer.
Okay, it's debatable but the point still remains that we shouldn't make the move just to make it. There are a lot of coaches out there way less suited to continue the program than Fuente. In fact many would probably agree that's the vast majority of options. If we can't find someone better why would we spend $10 million to hire someone worse?
Also irrelevance as you describe it is not anywhere near the same thing as rock bottom. You want to see actual irrelevance wait till we get a Scottie Montgomery type, or if we go the recruiting only formula: Frank Wilson or Mike Locksley. There's a lot of ways this can go wrong and very few it can go right. If we're going to spend $10 million to do something there better be a damn good plan in place, otherwise everyone complaining now is going to be begging for Fuente to come back in 2-3 years.
Edit: I just realized you address this in your second paragraph, but I already typed out the whole post.
The answer to your question: UNC is in Raleigh/Durham and we are in Blacksburg.... I've been to both areas and if you have a legit offer from both, VT has to be the unquestioned better team.... IMO
I'd argue that that coach will also need to be able to develop at a high level and win close games. We don't have the budget or name recognition to get a ton of 4 and 5 stars. (Yes UNC is doing it and I don't really know how but I don't think there a clear path to replicated that.)
UNC is doing it by cheating. In 1995 and 1996, I can assure you that our presence in the BCS bowls resulted in better recruiter, better facilities on-campus, more student applications than ever before, and more construction on campus.
Most of us can handle 8-4. Most of us can't deal with losing to ODU, Liberty and getting blown out by Duke at home. What a joke of a program we have become.
If your goal is to be a middling ACC team for the foreseeable future, then yeah, I can see why we would stick with Fuente
If recruiting is the issue then I think we need to dump money into a good recruiting coordinator for the program. That's the obvious and most financially responsible thing to do. Whit needs to put money into the program on that aspect. JHam was a hire bc Whit wanted a cheap hire. JHam was it. I hope he develops and does well and I'm excited about TnT as coaches and recruiters. They really didn't get a chance to recruit this year due to covid.
I don't know that we can say "this person WILL do better than Fu." That's not proven. What I think we can say is "X person is a great recruiter, how do we get them on board here?"
It doesn't matter how good of a car salesman you have if the car's engine is shot. Regardless of whose fault it is, in the end no one will be able to sell our program when we're regressing and just lost to Liberty. The recruiters at every other school are having a field day with that and there won't be a way to get past it unless we move on from Fuente or we show multiple years of sustained success. At this point only one of those seems possible, even if we had the best recruiting staff in the country.
I don't fully agree with your analogy. I don't think the engine of the car is necessarily shot. I think the salesman knows which parts the mechanic needs to get the car going but doesn't know how to get those parts for the mechanic to use. And the mechanic isn't willing to be creative and work with the parts he has laying around. He's just tapping his foot waiting for the salesman to deliver the parts he needs/wants. Or something like that.
The real issue is that the head man isn't able to sell his vision to the recruits to close the deal.
Throwing money at a recruiting coordinator isn't going to change much unless part of that person's job description is coaching Fuente to be less of a robot. Ultimately Fuente has to sell a vision to the donors and the recruits. He's not able to do that (in fact, I don't even know what his vision is, if he has one). A recruiting coordinator isn't going to fix that. Fuente needs to define his vision clearly and start selling it convinceingly to recruits. We're able to identify talent. We're usually in the top 5 or so for big name recruits we need. We just can't close. And that's the job of the head man. He's not doing it.
The Liberty game was the final Fuente straw for me. It's not a rebuilding year and we aren't even the best team in Virginia. No way we fire him before Dec. 16, and it wouldn't shock me if he lasts another season. But it's nevertheless time to look to (invent?) the future.
I'd like VT to prioritize hiring a Black head coach. The underrepresentation of Black coaches is well documented, particularly at the HC level, and I think VT should do its part to chip away at the problem. It'd be the right thing to do at any school, but I think it harmonizes particularly well with VT's football history. First Black QB drafted #1 overall? VT alum. First NFL coach with an all-Black coordinator staff? VT alum (Arians isn't Black, but still). And of course Tyrod has been a great Hokie representative in the NFL despite the pre-draft doubters and getting done dirty by the Bills (a white QB doesn't get benched for five-first-half-INTs Peterman, just saying). VT's elevation of Black quarterbacks is one of the program themes I'm proudest of, and I'd love to see similar themes embraced and grown throughout the entire athletic department.
Putting aside my "it's plain right and fits particularly well at VT" argument, hiring a Black head coach makes sense from a painfully pragmatic perspective. Underrepresentation means there are a lot of overlooked and underestimated Black coaches out there - the talent pool is shamefully under-tapped. Also, I see a lot of comments about wanting a coach who can recruit well and better connect with players. There's a ton that goes into that, but having a Black head coach can't hurt when most of the Hokies on the field are Black.
I apologize if I'm taking things outside of the community guidelines or anything like that, but I think this is important and something I'm not seeing others say. Hiring a Black head coach would make me prouder of our program, and it would help our proud program win.
Torrian Gray is holding on line 1
Meh
No suggestions Hoki Hy? Maybe Deion after 1 season at JackSt. If he is successful. And he can bring his 4* son....
I mean, name me the next great African-American head coach in college football that would be in our purview. Of the 14 current FBS African-American coaches, almost all of them are either not leaving their current job for Virginia Tech or are a clear downgrade from Fuente.
I would love to have David Shaw as the next HC at VT but that's never going to happen.
Who are the black coordinators at preeminent programs that have shown enough potential to be a head coach at a Power 5 school?
This is part of the problem or at least the narrative, Black coaches have not been promoted to those higher jobs that may lead to head coaching jobs.
Mike Locksley formed a coalition to help with this - board of directors include former Babcock discipe, Desiree Reed-Francois.
That's pretty cool
David Shaw isn't doing to great at Stanford why would he excite you? Curious.
Mike Tomlin, as mentioned below, is really the only coach that I can think of that I would be excited to get. Other than him I don't know any coach that I'd be excited about right now (regardless of skin color)
David Shaw would be a homerun hire. Last year wasn't great, but he's been incredible for Stanford, several 11+ win seasons, consistently excellent teams, strong recruiting despite stringent academic requirements. One bad year is not a trend.
Jim Harbaugh turned Stanford from one of the worst programs in P5 football 15 years ago to very respectable program - David Shaw built off of Harbaugh's blueprint and turned Stanford into a legit "Tier 2" program (not at the level of Alabama, Clemson, OSU etc. but a team that competes for conference championships year in and year out and has an outside shot of the playoffs).
David Shaw is absolutely a home run hire. .717 winning percentage over nine seasons, four BCS bowl births, five division championships, and three conference championships - all with being a world-class individual, never having any compliance issues and dealing with Stanford's admission requirements.
He's Black Beamer.
Why in the hell would David Shaw leave Stanford for VT??
because he might be fired soon.
It's tough to tout specific names when I have zero connections or firsthand knowledge. It's way easier to post on TKP than actually do the real work haha. I'm thankful we have a department to sift through interviews, references, and everything else that goes into finding a coach.
To appease you I did some quick Googling and had no trouble finding a wealth of interesting candidates: Tony Elliott, Ryan Walters, Jeff Nixon, Marcus Freeman, Larry Scott, etc. The point is there's no shortage of outstanding Black coaching candidates, and I hope VT tries to attract one.
The more I read about Tony Elliott the more I like him for our next coach. Not sure that would actually happen but he seems to be a great fit.
Either he or BV (doubt it) would be a solid get.
Tony Elliot, and bring his DL coach (Bates, i think?) as Def Coord, and keep TNT. Would easily get on board with that.
Love JHam...he was not ready to be a DC yet.
What has TNT accomplished that has you excited for the next staff to retain them?
This is a completely fair question
I will say, though, that TNT haven't been around long enough to really draw conclusions one way or the other. They might be great or they might not. I just don't think this question can be reasonably answered or even debated.
That said, if Fuente is shown the door I think it's in the best interest of everyone involved to do a clean sweep and give the next head coach complete control over who they pick for their staff. When Beamer retired it made some amount of sense to keep Foster and try to make a new HC come in and adopt Beamer's old D Staff. At this point, however, I want to give the next coach free reign to build their staff the way they want. I'm not giving them any prerequisites for who needs to go or who needs to stay.
That would mean that it is unlikely we retain TNT or anyone else on this staff. For some of the newer D coaches that's just a tough break. IMO they didn't get enough time to do their jobs adequately and COVID really messed things up for them but that's just a bad break. If they're good at what they do they'll land on their feet somewhere.
I agree with that, but should a new staff come in, it shouldn't come with strings attached. (You said the same thing.)
For what it's worth Tapp is a Hokie through and through, and it would suck for him to get shown the door after a single season. I was very excited for him and J-Ham to get the opportunity they got.
yep, we're on the same page here. I hate it for Jham and Tapp but I just don't think it's fair to the next HC to force him to keep them around. If we hire a coordinator (someone like Tony Elliot) and they need to build a staff for the first time and they want to give Jham and/or Tapp a shot I'm fine with that. But that directive has to come from the incoming HC, not from the AD.
Part of me thinks it was a mistake to keep the defensive staff when Fuente took over. Hell it almost killed Foster not figuratively either.
Nothing. But Teerlinck sure seems to have a reputation as a great coach, and I am sure we all think Tapp would make a great recruiter. Unfortunately, we might not have a single player on the DL that they would've recruited. And due to covid, it is really difficult to grade any recruiting.
But they sure seemed like great hires when they were announced.
Teerlinck has a great reputation, but he is going to run his scheme up front or he isn't going to be here.
and i was wrong about saying they have accomplished nothing. we are still one of the leaders in sacks/game, right? and with the players we have, that is a pretty good accomplishment.
*bong rip
Mike Tomlin... He hates his job. No seriously. He hates it. He wants to coach in college, especially if it brings him back to Virginia.
Sticking to the long shot, you must be high, NFL theme, last year there were several reports that Eric Bieniemy of the Chiefs was frustrated with NFL hiring processes and joking about a move to the college level. <1% chance of this happening but holy hell would it be fun
Mike Tomlin could absolutely be one of the best coaches in college football. His ties to 757, being black, and above all being a super bowl winning coach, besides Dabo and Saban, I don't know who could really compete with his resume. It would never happen tho
Yeah definitely, I think him being a big black coach would really help fill some big holes in our program
I've been thinking this too, especially since Devyn Ford's comments on why he wanted to play for Franklin. Outside of the names you posted above, Larry Johnson DL coach at Ohio State.
I can certainly appreciate the sentiment here (more than many i suspect). However, I simply want the best HC that VT can reasonably get regardless of skin color.
I second this. I want the best person for the job.
If being a Super Bowl champion, a consistent winner in the NFL despite a ton of turnover (exit Belk, Bryant and just keep winning), and being a native Virginian doesn't make you the best candidate on paper, I don't know what does. It is a pipe dream, but if he was a serious candidate, I would lay down in mud puddles so he could step on me as he walked to his interview. Come on now.
I was looking for this, as black man, there is truth to wanting to play for someone who can relate to you in that way. Obviously there is more to it than that as well but I'll throw you guys a name that I'm sure will get mixed reviews...Loren Johnson! Yes he's never coached in college but he took Highland Springs from the most talented 804 team that never got past regional championship to 4 straight state titles, national ranking, not to mention 4 current NFL players. Kids in the 804 were transferring in to play for him. He's got a great family oriented program and relates to kids! He's from Florida, sure he can recruit that area well. With his VT roots, I'm sure he'd be open to keeping Ham, Tapp around. If he just hires the right OC, I love him as a CEO/Recruiting coach! Leg it!
Might be worth a spot on the staff, but I can't see a good reason to give him the head job with no college experience.
What if Penn State gets trigger happy and releases Franklin?
I dunno much, about anything, but is he on the naughty list?
No thank you.
Devil's advocate take on the buyout being cost-prohibitive...
He's not getting fired mid-season, and he's not getting fired before 12/16 (a little over a month from now). So we're down to $10M, with the buyout decreasing by $2.5M per year. Suppose he has another year like this next year and/or the year after: will we have really "saved" $2.5-5M by waiting to part ways? I'm not sure. I think the donations and ticket sales would decrease dramatically eating into a good bit of it, but you also have to look at the long-term. Another year or two of this and I'm not sure we ever recover. I wish that weren't the case, but I have zero confidence in Fuente's ability to right the ship, because he hasn't done anything to give me that confidence.
I see Leipold was mentioned on the OP.
This team looks good, and they've played a couple of B1G teams competitive the last couple of years. I'd be interested if I was Babcock and in need of a "budget" hire.
https://www.coacheshotseat.com/
#29 seems about right. I personally like Fuente a lot as man. I wish I could emulate his stoicism as I wear his emotions on my sleeves. As a coach I wish he did things differently but guess we'll see how it plays out.
I can tell you I watched TTL video on Facebook and he didn't look like a guy who was told his days are numbered.
Maybe it's just relief that he knows it will all be over soon and he can head back closer to home and take a different job at season's end. No way in hell he feels more secure in his job after last weekend. If he does, there are more issues in VT athletics than just the football coach.
Yeah very true
I think this is the biggest issue. He knows he's not getting fired after this year. If for nothing else COVID gave just about every coach a pass this year. They aren't gonna fire the head coach in a year that they had no spring ball, a limited fall camp, and have dealt with the gambit of roster management of available players for at least the first 4 weeks of the season.
Give me Malzahn, Harbaugh, Shaw, or Babers
I dont think I've agreed less with a take on this site. Why would you want to hire another schools's sloppy seconds? None of those coaches could cut it at schools where it's easier to win at than VT, why would you want them here?
As for Babers, he's had one good season at Syracuse. That program is plateauing at a worse place than VT.
right? I saw the post and just ignored it. Figured it's probably some Wahoo's troll account or something. That is a dreadful list of coaches. Baber? Seriously??? LOL
Aside from Grantham, I don't see any other desirable up and comers. Fickell is not coming here . So if you don't want sloppy seconds, what virgin coach do you want?
I'd be excited about Chadwell, Healy, Wilcox (a Current P5 coach), Napier, Moorhead, Harsin, or Leipold.
We're you excited when we hired Fuente?
I was, yes. Keep Bud and a great defense, elevate the offense and resonate with offensive talent and recruits. The great defense never materialized, and he can't recruit. So my excitement is gone in year 5.
Yes I was. And Based on the information available at the time, it was the correct hire.
I've said it multiple times in this thread, but Fuente's lack of success has nothing to do with his G5 background. There are plenty of G5 coaches who did great at their first P5 job (Peterson, Fleck, Urban Meyer, Brian Kelley, etc)
I would not say that Fleck is doing great. Peterson is fine. And Brian Kelly and Urban were both to well established schools.
I forgot that Urban went to Utah first, but he's also one of like the top 3 coaches in the modern era.
At Washington Petersen won 3 division titles, 2 Pac-12 titles, one CFP berth, and three 10 win seasons in 6 years. Fleck has elevated Minnesota to national relevance, this year is strange, but their recruiting and play both have trended up in all of his years there.
I have nothing bad to say about Peterson. However, Minnesota is competing for 5th best maybe even 6th in the Big10.
In the Big 10 West maybe
Meyer coached at Bowling Green and Utah (when they were still G5, before the Pac12 called them) before being hired at Florida. Prior to Florida, his ONLY P5 experience was as a WR coach at ND. He was never a coordinator either.
Brian Kelley coached at Central Michigan and Cincinnati before going to ND. Kelley didn't have ANY D1 COACHING EXPERIENCE prior to Central Michigan, and no P5 experience prior to ND.
If you don't think Fleck has done well at Minnesota, idk what to tell you. He's recruiting top 15 classes to MINNESOTA and won 11 games last year. He's having a down season because he lost guys to graduation, the draft, and lost his OC. Not sure how you don't consider that great.
You clearly don't watch big 10 football much. Minnesota was the punching back of the league before he got their. Wisconsins win streak over them was 2nd longest in the country in a yearly rivalry game (2nd to us over uva) all of that has been reversed and he got a division championship. He has done a tremendous job there. Just because they're not Ohio state, doesn't mean he hasn't significantly improved the program
I lived an hour from Kalamazoo when he was at western. I watch a ton of Big10 football and I'm still not impressed. They're the second or third best team in the weaker division. What bronco has done at UVA is more impressive than this. Flecks row the boat snake oil doesn't do it for me
Very true. Fuente seemed like a solid hire in '15 and seemed like an absolute Homerun after '16.
But time has caught up to him and he simply doesn't have the skills to be successful here, personally I don't think he currently has P5 Head Coach skills anywhere right now.
But more to your point, the two "best" hires in recent years--Tom Herman and Scott Frost both have had limited success. Herman, in particular, looked like a no brainer, but with tons of resources at TX, he has been remarkably "meh."
There are no sure things...hiring a "name" guy that makes the fans happy is far from a guarantee of success.
I was neutral on CJF. I wanted to hire Bud for the HC. I felt like he earned the opportunity but I can admit that I don't remember if Bud wanted the job. I'm not in the fire CJF now group but I wouldn't be mad if we did. Ideally I want 1 more year and hopefully we can have a decent enough year for someone to come calling. That way we don't have to pay for him to leave and we may be more enticing to other coaches. I know its a pipe dream but don't wake me up.... lol
This is ideal
He's moved up to #7 this morning.
Holy Sh*t that's quite the jump! And not the good kind we do during enter sandman
I just want coaches that preach (and teach)the fundamentals and game discipline. This team is sloppy and inconsistent at best. I don't know if there are restrictions this year limiting practice time or activities but it sure seems like practice is not focused.
Also what is up with the team conditioning this year? Lots of guys suckin wind. The trees in Blacksburg must be hell on the lungs.
I still want to see what Hamilton and D coaches can do in a normal season.
Tom Allen from the Hoosiers. He's from Indiana, but his track record is pretty great, and his pay's not great right now.
I think this would be a hard sell to make. He's from Indiana, already a HC and building something at Indiana. Coming to VT would be, at best, a lateral move for him and it doesn't make any sense to him personally.
Just read the article about Hugh Freeze getting a "lucrative contract extension"
I mean, on one hand he probably earned it, especially with the deep pockets Liberty apparently has. I can't imagine what could possibly go wrong with giving out a lucrative extension so soon after the initial deal was struck..... heeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaavvvvvvvvvvvyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy /s
Freeze was on Paul Finebaum, saying the win was perhaps his biggest accomplishment, because of the disparities of the rosters between the schools. Said even bigger than beating Bama. Guess it was leverage for his contract for sure.
Dude is about to have higher quality escort services on call than he did during his Ole Miss days
This really hammers home the reason people are so angry about the loss. I know I've been hammering the recruiting failures all day but even if Fuente recruited the top 10 class every year there's no guarantee this coaching staff would translate that into wins. This loss wasn't about talent. It was about coaching. We were out coached. And it happens several times a season. Why aren't we more unified in the desire to move on from Fuente?
Didn't Fuente beat Freeze when the tables were turned and Freeze had paid for SEC talent?
Touche!
via GIPHY
This is part of the reason I just don't have faith in Fuente anymore at Tech. Compared to his stint at Memphis, Fuente has had significantly more financial and recruiting investment, greater roster talent, and more time here. However he hasn't elevated Tech to the same levels reached at Memphis.
I like Fuente as a man, I unfortunately don't think he can succeed as a VT coach.
Exactly... it just raises the question of why Fuente can punch up but not punch down. Everyone forgets that Furman was almost an epic disaster too. But maybe like 2019 he will go on a run now?
Yes, the recruiting has struggled but player development has also struggled. We haven't seen lots of improvements from when players get here minus OL.
I lurk 99% of the time but I have a genuine comment. Many of the people pointed (emphasis on past tense) to the 10-win and 9-win season as evidence that Fuente can coach. But then the detractors say, "yeah well that was with Beamer recruits."
From my perspective, and let's be clear i think he has to go as well, he coached up Memphis and he seemed to be able to do well with the Beamer recruits, so it stands to reason he is a good coach. My biggest question is what has happened in Blacksburg that makes it impossible to replicate what he did at Memphis? He was widely considered a slam-dunk hire considering he took dumpster fire CUSA/AAC program to the top 25 and deservedly so.
I really want that question answered (not that I think anyone here has the inside info) because I am not sure any "good hire" is going to be able to right the ship if there is something systematically wrong with the FB program.
These are great points and questions
In the first 3-4 years I was on the "well he won at Memphis so give him time" side of this issue. So I know that contradicts the comment of mine you're replying to but quite frankly Memphis isn't in the ACC and Fuente hasn't been able to replicate the success he had at Memphis here at VT. I don't know for sure if it's a coaching issue or something else deeper.
Another reason this is so maddening. He CAN coach. But he also gets outcoached more frequently than he should at this level. By lower level coaches (though, Freeze is in the position he's in for non-football related life choices...not because he's not a quality coach). That is super frustrating. He also had two offensive coordinators at Memphis. It's possible he brought the wrong one with him to Blacksburg. The recruiting part of it is also something to consider. With Beamer's recruits Fuente was able to field the best team he's had in Blacksburg. However, recruiting has been on a downward trend and as that talent has left the program the results on the field have gotten worse. Coaching only gets you so far. In this league you need to have talent to be successful. One of Fuente's big failures is that he hasn't been able to get the talent necessary to compete in the ACC.
This is a great question and its highly unlikely that anyone on the message board will have the answer. My guess: he's either not getting the support he needs from the rest of the institution or he's gotten complacent with his cushy new
pensionbuy-out. If it's the former then it probably doesn't really matter who we hire next. If the top administrators aren't committed to building a successful football program it's not likely to happen. That is my biggest fear. If it's the latter, well, then there's a chance that cutting our losses now and moving in a new direction with a coach who can recruit could right the ship. As it is right now, though, it looks like the ship is sinking.To that point, IF Whit does pull the trigger on Fuente and brings in a new coach who recruits better, then I think there is hope for the future. If we retain Fuente the message that sends me is that this administration isn't interested or invested in building a successful football program. That would make me really sad because if the football program falls by the wayside I'm not sure it will ever recover. Especially if the folks in charge don't really care.
Yes, he was. And I was excited about the hire at first and after the 2016 season I thought we were in terrific shape. Then 2017 and 2018 happened and, though I maintained my support of keeping Fuente around to finish what he started, my faith began to waiver. 2019 started off as a disaster but got better, which gave me hope. Then Wake and Liberty happened and I've given up hope that Fuente will ever deliver. The biggest reason I don't believe he can, though, isn't because of his ability to coach. It's because of his ability (lack thereof) to recruit.
Fair enough. I agree recruiting is not a good look. I don't think, with how much is being lost in revenue due to no attendance in sports, there is no way he goes at the end of the season. I could be wrong and possibly would like to be wrong. But I still fear there is something more than just Fuente which is holding this team back. At least for this season--beginning the transition to a new defense (spring game was cancelled mid-march) and then no more time to install has ruined this season. I didn't expect it to be a solid year but losing to liberty is about as painful as it gets.
If I break football down to its most basic, I would say to win, you need a good quarterback and a decent defense. (Extremely bad other groups can derail this philosophy of course). The closest we have been to pairing the two was 2016. For all the maddening bad offenses we had in the Beamer years, we had a defense and a quarterback you could trust. Coming into this season, I actually thought the defense would make enough of a stride to get back that winning combination. Would we have with Farley, Hunter, and healthy Waller? We will never know for sure. Hard to believe they wouldn't have been enough to make 2/3 of our losses Ws though.
I think when Fuente is out of here, we will be able to look back and see reasons why he didn't succeed, but that doesn't change the status quo and the perception he can't hide from. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if he has success again down the line.
I wouldn't be shocked to see him succeed somewhere else either. I genuinely hope he does. I also hope that he learns from his experience here in Blacksburg. Something is not working. There are many opinions out there as to what it is that needs to be fixed (Fire Corny, hire a more experienced D staff, recruit better, etc.). Whatever it is, I hope he figures it out. I just don't know if VT is the place for him to do that right now. It hasn't worked out so far and with the mounting pressure I don't know if it's healthy for him to continue here.
My $0.02: Memphis's talent level was similar to that of their opponents. We haven't gotten to that point at VT.
I think Fuente is a good coach. He rarely gets outcoached IMO (I know many disagree with this, but with the exception of Liberty, I think he often makes the right decision). His players who have transferred in/out of the program do their best here. But he isn't recruiting. Our roster from 2004-2011 was top 4 talent in the ACC. You can (could) be top of the conference with that type of talent. You cannot win the coastal (much less the conference) with the ACC's 12th best recruiting class.
"He who gets the best players usually wins." - Bobby Bowden
Yup. Most will disagree with this statement.
I agree with it. The narrative that he makes these terrible gameday decisions has only popped up suddenly after Liberty. And the occasional times people have been angriest Fuente was either right or at least had a good reason for what was 50/50 decision. I can't really think of any loss I would chalk up to poor decision making or being outcoached (we're not counting playcalling here).
I think Fuente himself is a good game day coach. He's had some very questionable time management moments this season outside of that Liberty FG fiasco. He comes across more and more like Mike London in that regard, IMO, as time moves on.
I think there are larger issues at play that present themselves in game situations.
If you count "letting Corny call the plays" as a bad gameday decision, he's sucked since he got here.
/s, kinda
I don't agree with this part. Those bad recruiting classes aren't playing. The team we have on the field is largely from top-30 recruiting classes which is still top-4ish in the ACC. We have more talent than the majority of teams on our schedule, and that includes most of the teams we lose to. Nobody is looking to fire Fuente for losing to Clemson or Notre Dame (though at some point we need to be competitive), it's constantly looking overmatched by teams with significantly lesser talent.
Every loss but Notre Dame last year was to teams with lesser-or-equal talent (Kentucky being roughly equivalent). Same story in 2018. 2016/17 we mostly held serve against lesser talent and lost to better teams, but we also lost just about every game to equal talent (Miami, Oklahoma State). 2016 was unquestionably his best year, and even then we overperformed exactly 0 times, and still lost to two teams with significantly less talent ('Cuse, GT). On paper, we have plenty of talent on the field. Either the players aren't as good as we thought (failure in identification, development) or the talent isn't being utilized correctly (failure in deployment, scheming). Either way, it's squarely on the coaching staff.
Not really. Many of the players that propped up those early classes are no longer here. That isn't a good thing either obviously.
A lot of those 4 stars didn't pan out.
I recommend y'all listen to the Cover 3 podcast episode from Wednesday 11/11. They talk a lot about coaching searches, mainly focused on Jim Harbaugh, but I found it pretty relevant to the discussion we've been having here.
The way I have been viewing things recently, is that if you value recruiting, it is best to get an assistant/coordinator from a high profile program that expects its coaches to recruit well rather than a G5 head coach that largely builds their success on using lower profile players in a great scheme.
The only realistic way out is if somehow Gary Patterson finally retires from TCU and Fuente leverages his relationship there and works with Kill to get hired.
However, if that hail mary does happen and we get a blank slate, my guess would be that the entire staff is turned over as well since any new coach worth their salt will likely want to choose their own people.
So here's my take *deep breath*:
Head Coach
Dan Quinn $5,000,000
Defense
Torian Gray (DBs) $800,000
LB $250,000
DL $250,000
S $200,000
Offense
OC $800,000
QB $250,000
RB $250,000
WR $250,000
OL $300,000
Total: $8,350,000
Logic - Quinn just got fired and his only future in the NFL is to seek a DC position but probably never the HC position again, so this would appease any part of him that still wants a head coaching gig. He is known to be a player's coach, tons of DL experience (college/NFL), college DC (top 5 D at Florida), NFL DC (won the SB), NFL HC (insert 28-3 SB jokes, but nevertheless, he made the SB), and is solid with the media (outspoken, humble, engaged, but tough).
He's a mid-Atlantic guy (from NJ) that played ball on the Eastern Shore (Salisbury) and has coached in Virginia at VMI and William and Mary (late 90's DL coach).
He has a relationship with Pete Carroll, who also failed in the NFL (2x), and came back into the craziest coaching environment ever at USC.
And let's be serious, he would wipe the floor in scheming against ACC coaches.
Pay him more than his previous NFL salary, immediately hire Torian Gray to come back as the DC, use his relationships to identify a solid QB coach or offensive assistant for the OC spot, staff out the rest with solid recruiters that know VA recruiting per available position. My guess is he would attract talented coaches given his experience.
The premium is $1 million more but it puts a professional face on the program with a coach who knows defense and has NFL level CEO experience. I would much rather go in this direction if Whit can get the funding than chase the next "up and comer" or current college OC/DC.
Also, for those thinking this is what UVA did with Al Groh, just for one second consider the chasm that exists between what Groh ever did and what Quinn has done (not to mention Quinn would be 10 years younger than Groh who was in his 60s during his time at UVA).
BTW, this would never happen but nonetheless, I look forward to the commentary.
Dan Quinn couldn't figure out how to win games with Matt Ryan and Julio Jones. I don't think he is as smart as you think he is.
Honestly, as a Panthers fan, I was sad when ATL fired him. That tells me all I need to know about if I want him at VT.
This doesn't seem very realistic at all but would definitely be ideal!
Dan Quinn talks about players being tough but his teams have been soft as white bread. Hard pass.
Matt eberflus , the colts d coordinator, I have a feeling he is going to get some buzz soon. He has a great resume, and I think tech needs a defensive minded coach. This guy is getting great experience under Reich at Indy.
He's going to get an NFL HC job next season and he hasn't coached in college for a while. Not happening, but he's a great coach
Sark
Hard no. Sark has only recruited well when coaching at a blueblood (Bama, USC). His head coaching stints at UW and USC were mediocre at best. He has no reputation for creativity or 'coaching up' lower ranked players. If Fuente's buy out was $0.00, I'd still rather keep Fuente than take Sark.
He gone
I'll believe it when I see it
I guess I should clarify on this not saying I've heard he's gone, just an old saying but he certainly should be gone at this point and at the very least he should make a move to get rid of Cornelson and call plays for the rest of the season.
Should I accost Jim Leonhard on the street and tell him all about Blacksburg?
IF he were interested, I'd at least want Whit to contact Tony Elliot, OC at Clemson. Recruits his butt off and he's responsible for running the offense there. Apparently, he's just like Dabo: can charm parents off their couches! Would be affordable and may actually want to keep the young up and comers on the defensive staff that WILL produce with the right HC. Like I said, he may be perfectly happy being OC at Clemson but he intrigues me a lot!!
Here are is my list
Preface
There are three categories of hires: G5 HC, P5 assistant and P5 HC experience (could also be one of the previous two currently). I'm assuming our inclination is to stay away from the g5 coach because that's Fuente, the g5 coach may not have sufficient P5 experience in infrastructure or recruiting and finally, I don't think it's a great set of g5 candidates currently (but one or two). Each of those three categories of candidates has provided success stories and failure in the past.
My list is order of who I would call. Yes, we may get pretty far down the list before we get interest. We also need to increase staff compensation, support staff numbers and infrastructure to attract the best names. It should be assumed that football is about to cost a lot more.
1. Fickell — he turned down $5m/yr at Mich St so I assume that's a no for us. But he gets the first call. He might be waiting on ND, he's Catholic I think.
2. Campbell — he's making $3.5m at Iowa St so we can bump him a little bit, but I'm calling because ISU has been sending out a lot of troubling signs about their athletic department finances recently. We got Buzz because he was concerned about Marquette's finances, make the same pitch to Campbell?
3. Venables or Elliott — not sure which I ask first, doubt we could get either. I will say that a team led by a defensive HC is interesting. Everyone has offenses these days, if you could set a baseline of having a good D every year, it may be a successful recipe. Of note, both of these guys have demurred from other searches, including BV at FSU last year, so this may be a hard no. But their regional and ACC connections make them tough to beat as P5 assistants.
5. A list of P5 assistants at elite schools to further explore: Leonhard (WIS DC), Lanning (UGA DC), Elko (aTm DC), Yurcich (UT OC), Lea (ND DC), Johnson (UF OC), Grimes (BYU OC)
6. Morehead - always loved his offenses and anyone with Cristobals seal of approval gets my attention, but Morehead may not have the personality for HC. But 2nd try HC would be a good model for VT.
7. Napier - experience at CU and Bama as assistant, I think he finished 2nd to Aranda at Baylor last year.
Not inclined to call:
Sark - not worried about the alcoholism, just not a great fit.
Harrell - didn't feel like a fit.
Grantham - don't like him personally
Beamer - divisive in fanbase, inexperience
Gray - not experienced enough
Healy - great young coach but zero P5 experience as assistant
Monken/Navy coach — interesting but hesitant to triple option
Leipald/Bohls - dudes who can coach your pants off, but no P5 experience at all. Interesting but too risky.
Who did I miss?
Though I think it's a huge reach, one thing to consider with gray is he may be inclined to keep T&T and jham
I just had a conversation about Torrian.
He has been a DB coach for almost his entire career. Maine, UConn, VT, UF, Redskins.
Then he got rehired at UF as a CB coach - his first role without the entire DB field.
Why have exactly zero places ever hired him as a DC? I don't know but it is food for thought. It's feeding my suspicion that no one thinks he's cut out for a DC role.
One key thing you brought up about Iowa State is that there have been troubling signs from the Athletic Department, which is also true of our Athletic Department. Every time I read about our programs these days, there seem to be little signs of less funding, which with the effect of COVID, that is probably true of all but a handful of programs. Still, there is enough smoke out there that making that argument might be a tough sell, unless Whit gets a huge infusion from the highest donors, since he is steadily losing the little ones as this football season continues.
I'm going to disagree with this comment. I believe VT needs someone who has proven they can do more with less. I'm concerned that a hire like Tony Elliott would result in someone who couldn't win games without 4/5 stars at every position, whereas the challenges around recruiting could be remedied by hiring the right staff.
I also think we need someone who is familiar with the high school football landscape inVA/MD/Carolina
I'm really high on the coastal Carolina coach right now. He runs a pretty innovative offensive system and has experience in the Carolinas/mid Atlantic. Need todo more research though.
The culture at Coastal Carolina seems to be fun loving and competitive. ESPN had an article about their locker room culture a few weeks ago. Not sure how our over dramatic fans would take it if players were having fun but still losing some games. Probably start threatening to get Urban Meyer to come coach.
If it improves recruiting, everyone will be fine.
Sam Denmark who transferred from VT, says he enjoys football again at Coastal.
Take that however you wish....
We have a guy who proved he could do more with less. Healy looks like Fuente with half his Memphis experience and more personality. I'm going oppo from Fuente. Recruiting, innovation, high goals.
But this is a philosophical disagreement. Everyone will have their preference. I acknowledge the validity of your argument.
100% agreement. If you're used to having 5* talent, how are you at developing 2*s?
Dang, great list. Campbell and Elliot might be my top semi-realistic choices. You are certainly right about the G5 route not having a whole lot of options (Fickell and Napier are both waiting for top-tier jobs, I think). I forgot about Morehead but I think he got a raw deal from unrealistic admin at mississippi state. 100% agree with Grantham and Gray not being priorities, neither have shown near enough to take on a program of our caliber, let them take on a G5 job if they want to work their way up.
Could maybe throw Indiana coach Tom Allen on the list? I know he's an Indiana boy and all, but this is really their year: no divisions, Michigan and Penn State down, upper classmen he's developed. That's going to be near impossible to sustain but he's built a real good team down there. And staying in the state, what about Jeff Brohm? I know he turned down Louisville, but I wonder if he's now realizing how dang hard it is to win at Purdue and looking to move up while he can.
Harbaugh and Franklin may both be available, but I have no idea how much they might cost. Slightly divisive, but I think Franklin especially would be a big time hire. He's won big with less (multiple 10-win seasons at VANDY) and shown he can elevate a program to recruit against the big dogs (obviously Penn State has a higher ceiling than ours, but he maximized their potential, I think he could likely maximize our recruiting potential of consistently top-20).
For Moorehead, I really don't think that hiding your QB getting in a fight at practice and not being able to play due to an eye injury from said fight from the athletic department upper management is really a raw deal. If every coach was fired for players fighting there would be non coaches. So what else was he hiding?
He wasn't fired for that incident, he was fired for the shitshow that was the ending to that Ole Miss game and the mississippi schools being completely insane and paranoid. Certainly, some research and digging behind the scenes is in order, but I wouldn't consider that a disqualifying event. I think he just severely underestimated how crazy those people are.
Hugh Freeze. Malzahn if he gets canned. Harbaugh if he gets canned. People obviously don't like Muschamp so I'll omit him. I really like Babers and he's actually realistic. David Shaw if he gets canned. Pruitt if he gets canned.
Why do you think coaches that have failed at schools where it's easier to win will succeed at VT? Freeze is the only (indisputably) good coach you mentioned, but he has known issues with the NCAA (as well as being a known douchebag). Gus is a pretty good coach IMO, but he is exactly Fuente, just with even less personality. Running David Shaw's system would be a three year rebuild. Pruitt... why?
Also, why do you like Babers? Have you seen his record? I'd rather keep Fuente than almost anyone on your list.
I think the coaches I named could beat Liberty with the team we have.
Well, Babers' 2020 Syracuse team already lost to Liberty, so please take him off your list.
Pruitt has losses to Georgia State and BYU (that is not as talented as this year) with a Tennessee team that has a lot more stars than any VT team has, so you can cross him off the list as well.
I think Gus is a good coach, but he's more of a robot than Fuente, and also has no interest in the non-football parts of being a head coach. Not saying that he couldn't win here, but he's a lot closer to Fuente than Beamer.
Shaw and Harbaugh are both trending downward. Not sure I'd want them here.
Yeah, Harbaugh is a weird dude. For those that like him, go watch the All or Nothing on Prime and tell me if you still want him. Hard Pass.
Shaw, maybe. Harbaugh isn't affordable even of he is canned. The rest, meh. I would rather take a shot at somebody hungry and full of energy.
I'd take Healy over any of the ones you mentioned. He's unproven but looks to be an amazing recruiter, and given our financial situation, it's a move that would leave a lot of money for assistants, recruiting budget, etc. Give him an incentive-laden contract and see what happens, knowing you can walk away cheap if it doesn't work out.
Hard pass dude. He's a medium ceiling low floor guy. Never been an HC in FBS before last year. We would absolutely lose our bowl streak within the first 2 years of him being coach, and with the amount of negativity at 4-4 this year and 8-4 last year I'd hate to see what happens at 3-9 or 2-10
Just hang tight. With the last 2 recruiting classes you will get to see exactly what that looks like.
And that excuses a shit hire. You're right
You really believe Healy would be worse than Fuente?
Yes look at their records up to this point and other similar hires in the industry. It's Chadwell time
I think Healy is high risk/high reward. I think he could end up being great because of his energy and recruiting ability. But, I can understand not wanting to hire him.
I'd be very happy with Chadwell as well.
Auburn fans HATE Malzahn, That's enough for me to not want him.
Auburn fans hate everything and everyone unless they have beaten Alabama in the previous 7 days. They're an angsty bunch.
I have a couple friends who are auburn fans. While I agree they are angsty, they also have (some) cause for dissatisfaction; Auburn always drops at least one game to a team that goes .500 in conference.
Gus's record is sort of Beamer-esk (occasionally beats a team he shouldn't, slight more frequently loses to a team he shouldn't) and he has a very Fuente-esk personality (multiple people, one of whom was a former walkon at Auburn, have told me that he seems like he's 'on the spectrum' and has a hard time having a conversations about anything other than football).
I live in Alabama and are surrounded by Auburn fans. All I can say is if you don't like CornFu, you wont like Malzahn.
#sauces Fickell is on line 1.
Please don't toy with my emotions rn.
What a coup that would be.
Didn't Fickell's son commit to play at Cincinnati? Probably keeps him there.
I bet he'd release him if he decided to decommit.
While I don't doubt Fickell is our top target, isn't he essentially the 2020 version of 2015 Fuente just as a defensive coordinator background?
anOSU assistant and 1 year interim head coach, plus he has beaten Fuente head to head. At Cincinnati.
I'd argue Cincinnati is better than what Memphis was when Fu left.
Fair, but Memphis was worse than Cinci when Fuente showed up. I'm not defending him, but he turned around an absolute shit program.
Fuente had a huge turn around aac championship winning, coach of the year winning year. However, the next year when he signed with tech there seemed to be a regression imo. Fickle has shown he knows how to coach sustained progressive success starting with a W over us in the military bowl lol. I question if Fuente's big year was lighting in a bottle or if he could have sustained it.
Yes, but Fickell is recruiting out of his hometown backyard. Basically anyone that wanted to go to OSU, but couldn't make scholarship and is still really talented, is going to Cinci.
Yeah very true. I guess I wasn't trying to endorse Fickell as much as make sense of my dissatisfaction with Fuente. Plus it brings up a point that I'm ready for a happy on the east coast guy rather than a guy who gives fish out of water vibes.
Agree.
Except he also has P5 head coaching experience albeit in an interim capacity 🤷♂️ more P5 assistant experience too -- I think like 14 years at anOSU compared to Fuente's 5 at TCU? If not the exact numbers, then close
In the sense that he's a HC at a G5 school, sure. But Fickell at least has almost a decade of experience coaching and recruiting at a major P5 level at Ohio State.
Fuente simply never had that, and that was always the gamble with him. His "biggest" experience was TCU before they were even in the Big 12. We were always just hoping that his experience and success would translate to the P5 level and as soon as Beamer's players were out the door, it clearly didn't.
I see what you are saying, but I also meant it more of a recruiting fit as well. Fickell has been a midwest guy his whole career, literally everything has been within the state of Ohio. Now, I don't think it would be an issue for him to develop relationships here, but after what happened with Fuente it does make me wonder a bit.
Coaching and recruiting at Ohio State is a little more than just "recruiting the Midwest/Ohio." Definitely more than the areas Fuente recruited before coming here. He's been in regular contact with high schools all over the east coast and south for the better part of two decades.
Fuck it. Urban Myer's heart is probably good now, right? And he probably would enjoy a good challenge...bringing Florida and Ohio State back from the brink? Child's play. Us? This would be the cherry on top of his whatever cherries go on top of. I don't like cherries but that's beside the point. Just eliminate *looks at the Tech bank account* 80% of the sports, and we're back in business. Party like it's '99!
If VT had 10 mill a season Urban wouldn't come here the only jobs he would come back to coach from what I've heard would be OSU again which is less likely or Notre Dame
I'll say the same thing again that I said when we didn't off Kirby Smart as soon as he had interest in us before Georgia opened up. Get the BEST recruiter, we can feel great about a guy who's a good person but if he can't get the right guys on the field that means nothing, also we have a harder sell than most to convince kids from completely different areas to come play in rural Blacksburg, Virginia. We all love VT so it's harder to see why these kids don't see what we see, but we need more of a salesman to get the job done here IMHO. Also another name I haven't heard about in a while which while his first stint didn't turn out great he CAN recruit and maybe he's learned from his mistakes and he's now under Saban's wing in Tuscaloosa, let's look at Butch Jones.
Jones? Please no... all for personal reasons - I wouldn't be able to stand my UT family members giving me crap about getting their 2nds
Butch jones was happy when mike's grill closed.... HARD pass
Source
I miss those burgers. Never did particularly care for the ones at Hokie House.
Butch Jones- the guy who didn't want Trevor Lawrence, who was raised in Piney Flats TN and grew up a huge Vols fan before moving south? No thank you.
I can't get behind Urban Meyer. He is a scumbag.
Urban Meyer isn't coming back (if at all) for anything but an absolute premier job i.e. USC. FSU kicked the tires on him last year and got nowhere.
Zero chance he is coming to Blacksburg
10000000% agree
It is looking like Muschamp is out at South Carolina.
As DC? Sign me up! As HC? I'd rather keep Fuente.
Edit: I could see a place like Tennessee (or PSU, or ) firing both coordinators this year and hiring Fuente for OC and Muschamp for DC. Would be fun to watch.
Oh...I did not post this to say we should pick him up as HC. No, thank you! I'm curious as to who they get to replace him. If we let Fuente go, we may be competing with South Carolina.
Looks like the Shane trains next stop is in Columbia SC
Black Friday EDIT:
Shane Beamer to interview for South Carolina football coach vacancy, sources say
I'd be really happy for him!
Also that would be great for VT. Less competition from scar in the coach search. I don't think Shane would be the best option for VT right now
Agree, this legacy thing has run its course. Not that he couldn't succeed, but it is wishful thinking that grasping at the past is going to move us forward.
I'm gonna say it again...
I think Dave Clausen is a reasonable get. That is if he'll come. He's got a good eye for talent, he knows who he can get at Wake, he develops his players in an exceptional way, and he rarely ever gets out coached.
He wouldn't be a sexy hire, but he would fit at VT.
I like it, I like it a lot. Plus he's shown he's comfortable with coaching on the east coast which would be refreshing. He even did a great job coaching in Virginia at Richmond and would be familiar with the recruiting layout. I just don't know if he wants to make a change from a mid tier acc team to what now is another mid tier acc team... We would have to overpay for him probably.
Clawson would do fine here, but he's a low ceiling/high floor option. He's probably not going to recruit at a top 25 level.
Yeah I tend to agree. Clawson doesn't excite me. I think he's a fine coach. But what I think VT really needs is a guy who is a good, proven recruiter who is humble enough to understand that his coordinators need to be smarter than him. But also a guy who isn't afraid to make staff changes based on performance. I don't know what the relationship is between Fuente and Cornelson but it completely boggles my mind that Cornelson is still employed. He doesn't recruit. Doesn't speak to the media. Doesn't coach up the QBs. Doesn't seem to know how to break down film. Game planning and play calling are questionable. And I really wonder how much Fuente contributes. With Fuente spending all his time running the scout team the defense got a lot better and the offense got a lot worse. That tells me that Cornelson can't perform without Fuente's help.
While I mostly agree with the low ceiling on Clawson, it could be interesting to surround the guy with some young, aggressive recruiters as coaches and see what happens.
I don't know that Clawson's personality would mesh with that kind of staff, but he can develop players with the best of them.
Would be interesting to throw him a few 4☆ guys in there each year...could be really dangerous.
Get Muschamp or Tony Elliot. Fickell is a bad choice. Repeat Fuente and we'll bury the program. Let's at least get a seat on the premier coaching destination merry go round with the SEC instead of the kids table we're at now. We may just be able to inject some life into our programs veins
You would prefer Muschamp over Fickell just because Fickell is at a G5 program? What if instead of the Cinci head coach, we got the national championship winning Ohio State DC under Urban Meyer?
#BlindResuméSZN
What about Muschamp says good coach to you? Maybe I'm looking at his career differently. But, South Carolina and Florida fans hate him. He ignores his offenses and manages games worse than Fuente.
Muschamp? Is that a fucking joke? Dude failed at Florida AND South Carolina, and you think he can be successful at a school with less resources? Hell no.
Muschamp would be a disaster. I never liked him even as a coordinator and he's failed miserably as a head coach at two separate programs. Hard pass.
South Carolina #MadeTheMove
Now can we #MakeTheMove?
Maybe I am alone in this regard, but I am extremely worried about using up big donor money on running Fuente out of town. If someone covers his buyout then okay, but we are most certainly not flush with cash at the moment. If Clemson is cancelling programs, how far in the red are we.
Use it or lose it
If Fuente doesn't go anywhere and we continue on this downward spiral there won't be any donors left
If we don't spend the money now to stop the ship from sinking we'll be in much worse financial shape once the ship is sunk
Fair point.
Alex Kirshner and Godfrey recently talked on their podcast that it wasnt really a money issue for Clemson per some conversations with their AD.
In the sense that it wasnt "cut track or we fire people elsewhere" because we are broke.
There just wasnt a ton of alumni support, 0 endowed scholarships, or named gifts, etc
And they dont really care about the gaggle of walk ons they get paying scholarship, so hthey sorta just stopped wanting to pay for the team.
So if they can cut it and have cover under the pandemic while being square with the ACC and Title IX, it lets them just put that much more money into football. Which they are.
Clemson will prioritize football over everything else. In 2011, instead of fixing the pool that is used by all students, they cut the swim team. Most freshman dorms make the worst VT dorms look like palaces while their football players get nice apartments. Academic buildings we're falling apart. And the basketball program is pretty much ignored most of the time. But they have plenty of money for indoor slides and mini golf courses for the football team. I want to be successful in football, but not at the expense of the general student experience which I feel like is the case at Clemson, and was a big reason why I transferred.
Joe Brady, you up?
Seems likely he'll be getting an NFL gig this year
He already has one.
I mean as a head coach. His name has been popping up quite a bit. He's done a helluva job with the panthers this year, and NFL teams have shown a willingness to gamble on young, offensive minded head coaches with little pedigree (see: Kingsbury, McVay)
I didn't realize he was only 31
There are a lot of things that are considered 'true' regarding VT that I really just don't think plays out in the real world.
1 - VT can't afford a top flight coach. We gave Buzz Williams a Top 10 salary and let him bring whoever he wanted to fill out his staff when we moved on from James Johnson. Hell, a lot of the justification that people were saying on sites just like this on why we couldn't move on from JJ was because we couldn't afford it. We would have been paying 2 severance packages on top of a new coaching salary. That meant that even if we could replace him, we wouldn't be able to replace him with anyone good. Yeah, nope. Poached a legitimate big name coach from a basketball school and paid him a Top 10 salary.
2 - You can't recruit to Virginia Tech. Sticking with basketball, Buzz Williams (and Mike Young, for that matter) have blown this theory out of the water. We routinely had top flight recruiting classes with Buzz, even bringing in legitimate game breaking talent, like NAW and Nolley. For basketball. A sport which all the pundits said we would literally not be able to recruit for because Blacksburg is about the furthest thing from an urban market as it gets. And yet, we did. And even after we replaced him with Mike Young, our ability to recruit in basketball really didn't wane.
So yeah, I don't buy these reasons on why we can't compete in football. We are a legitimate football program, the highest profile school in this region. We are an absolute nothing in basketball, and yet the basketball program consistently proves these talking points about football to be wrong. The money is there, we just have to be willing to spend it. We can recruit here, but we need the right staff to do it. Anything said to the contrary is just an excuse.
Correct. And the Recruiting/Coaching paradigm is not coincidence. Great coaches are great recruiters. You won't find one that wasn't in the modern era. It's like saying this surgeon is amazing, but he can't suture. Doesn't work that way. If you can't recruit as a head coach, you are not a good head coach. It's literally more than 50% of the job. There is enough of a body of work that shows Justin Fuente is not a good recruiter. He's just not.
Yes. All of this.
This is the best post I've read in a long, long time. Great points, fantastic evidence, and utter truth.
Fuente isn't cutting it. VT can come up with the money to replace him if they are serious about Football. Recruiting is definitely possible.
Spend the money on a guy who can recruit well and who will surround himself with competent coaches. I don't want a guy who is going to bring his buddies along so they can get paid for doing nothing (looking at you Cornelson and Shibest). A strong recruiter who can hire competent coaches will go a long long way towards fixing the problems in Blacksburg. And there's no good reason VT can't do it.
I mean don't get me wrong, we do have fundraising issues, and our alumni giving really does kinda suck. But, that's not a reason why we can't compete now, its just an excuse. We told Buzz we would match any offer he got when we knew he was looking, and basically gave him a blank check to build the program the way he saw fit. You can't tell me that we're going to do something like that for basketball, a sport that brings in a decent amount of revenue, but is by no means our bankroller, while at the same time trying to scrounge up pennies in the couch cushions to pay our expenses in football. Football is our moneymaker, its the one sport we need to be investing heavily into, so it really just doesn't make any logical sense whatsoever that we are at the state that people claim we are when our own actions say a completely different story.
We were paying 2 severance packages and a Top 10 coaching salary in basketball no less than 5 years ago. There is no way we can't afford to move on from Fuente now if performance necessitated it.
To add to this, if we can hire a guy who can recruit that will kill two birds with one stone. If someone can recruit, they can also sell a program to the donor base and help our fundraising issues tremendously.
This is a fantastic point. And a big, big reason why I think it's paramount that the next coach be an Ace recruiter. Fuente was a great Xs and Os guy who happened to bring the wrong OC with him to Blacksburg IMO. But with no personality, an aversion to the media, and generally not great at recruiting (or hiring good recruiters) he was destined to fail here. We don't need the next great schemer. We need a guy with a vision who can sell it to donors, fans, administrators and recruits.
What kills me is that, remembering back to 2015, we were told that an emphasis on recruiting was going to one of, if not the key metric in defining who we were going to target on our coaching search. In the end, if that really was one of our biggest points of emphasis, we could not have missed the mark more than we did.
yeah, I remember that too. It's certainly a big concern that Whit was ostensibly prioritizing recruiting back then. Fuente has come up very, very short in that regard. I don't think there's much evidence that Fuente was a great recruiter before his stint in Blacksburg so I still don't think Blacksburg or VT are the issue. I think the right coach can recruit very well at Tech. Whit just needs to do a better job finding that guy. Fuente wasn't it.
The more I think about it, the more I realize how insane it was that Fuente not only vouched for keeping Cornelsen after the 2018 season, but then doubled-down by hiring the greenest possible Defensive Coordinator that will need at LEAST two years to develop his system. While the recruiting necessary to make that happen, does not not happen.
It's absurd that he was allowed to do this. I wish Whit hadn't put up a fight when Baylor came calling.
can we assume that Whit didn't put up a fight when Baylor came calling and instead spun the lack of interest Baylor had in Fuente as a lack of interest Fuente had in Baylor, as a way to try maintaining confidence in the coach? Imagine how much worse recruiting would be if Baylor really didn't want Fuente and that got out. VT looks better if Fuente turns Baylor down rather than if Baylor is not interested in Fuente.
I can almost imagine the interview
Baylor AD: "We think you'd be a great fit but we have concerns about Conrelson. Would you be willing to bring in a different OC who has proven their ability to recruit, coach up players and produce a consistent, competent offensive attack?"
Fuente: "Cornelson is the best OC I've ever worked with and he will be coming with me, no matter what. He's quite capable of doing all those things you mentioned and I would not be comfortable trying to establish a relationship with a new OC when I know Cornelson can do all of the requisite parts of his job."
BAD: "Okay, well thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us. We will be in touch in the next few days."
JF: "Great! I look forward to working with you soon!"
BAD: (to himself) "LOL, okay"
Who says he did put up a fight? I've never seen any confirmation Fuente had a job offer from Baylor aside from message board speculation.
I don't feel comfortable calling for people to lose jobs. It is a sickening feeling.
However, if the call is made, Will Healy is my first call as AD, given the budget, parameters, etc.
He's making $4.25M a year and will likely receive a ~$10M buyout.
He'll be fine.
Care to elaborate on this choice French?
Healy is young and energetic. He should be the first call SC makes and I'd be surprised if they haven't already made it
Healy is an upcoming coach but he is also 9-9 at Charlotte and 22-30 as a head coach which is misleading as he started 0-11 in 2016 but still landed a Top 5 recruiting class in FCS that year. He was a phenomenal recruiter at Austin Peay in 2016 and 2017, with the highest ranked recruiting class in FCS in 2017.
He led Charlotte to its first ever bowl game after going 7-6 in 2019, but this season has been a bit rough. He has recruits coming in from 8 states currently including the hot beds of Florida and Texas, along with most of the East coast. He has ties to several college programs here in Virginia and prioritizes recruiting as a major component in selecting staff. He knows wins come with talent.
He has continued to recruit at a high level at Charlotte, currently with the number 3 recruiting class in Conference USA in 2020, and the 71st ranked class overall. This is a season after Charlotte brought in the 14th ranked class in conference. He also brought in 7 transfers from high profile schools, including South Carolina, Miami and Penn State as part of his first class. One thing I find interesting is his use of a 4-2-5 base defense, which with today's pass happy offenses is becoming more standard.
He was a QB for the Richmond Spiders from 2004-2008 so has plenty of experience with how not to manage the clock with Timecop as his head coach. He is originally from Tennessee, where he passed for over 7700 yards in high school. He is one of the youngest head coaches in Division 1, at just 35. He won the Eddie Robinson award for top coach in FCS in 2017.
Not saying his track record isn't impressive, but this has a bit of overly positive spin, especially in terms of qualifications for the VT job. Recruiting well in FCS and in CUSA is not the same as in the ACC. Theres really 4 tiers of recruiting in FBS, (247 avg for reference): High P5 (88+), Mid P5 (86-88), low P5/American (84-86), Rest of FBS (80-84). As you move up each tier the competition for the top players in that tier increases. Basically what I'm saying is it's very unlikely he comes to VT and is instantly an ace recruiter. At Char and AP he recruited inside his tier the whole time except for a non qualifier 4 star Ty'keist Crawford who would've otherwise gone juco.
Also lets not forget Healy was 5-6 at Austin Peay when he was hired at Charlotte. He's kind of the opposite of a Lance Leipold who coaches in the mold of find a way to win at all costs and build a program culture long term, rather than a full on recruiting first mentality with a specific identity (teams with an identity tend to get better recruits in G5 at least). With Healy coaching Tech we will lose games due to lack of talent and in game coaching mistakes, whereas someone like Leipold will do more with less and make less in game mistakes. That's just fact based on where they are in their careers, not necessarily saying Leipold is better.
Healy also hasn't had a hc job for more than 3 years and there is precedent for coaches to recruit well and win games early, then have the program drop off afterwards (Pete Lembo, Seth Littrell, Petrino). I don't know if we've seen enough from him yet.
On the subject of offense, if we want a young guy from the region with a unique and successful offense, look no further than Jeremy Chadwell at Coastal Carolina. He's coached longer, had much more success than Healy and is also young and a good recruiter. If we want to hire a black head coach, Jay Norvell is a good option and he also has an innovative offense at Nevada. He isn't as young and recruits in a different region but he is a solid coach and recruiter.
Overall I would take Napier, Chadwell, Norvell and Leipold over Healy. And all of them would fall behind Fickell and Matt Campbell. Napier has the most solid resume of the bunch but Chadwell has recruited the entire southeast raiding Georgia and Florida as well as picking up a couple VA and 757 guys while at Coastal. That and the most interesting offensive system makes him my top pick of the bunch.
If you scroll way up about 500 comments, you will see I was the one that suggested Chadwell in the first place. The Healy piece was just a providing some information post. Didnt really see him as the top candidate like French did. I expect Napier is going to end up at South Carolina. I dont see Freeze leaving Liberty this year.
Word, I didn't see that, agree 100%
Because he's coming to Blacksburg boys!!!
Freeze is interesting... Supposedly Sankey blocked (aka pressured) Alabama from hiring Freeze as an OC after he was ousted at Ole Miss. He is also apparently not liked by ADs. Stephen Godfrey seems to think Freeze will be toxic for some time.
1) Young, energetic CEO type that knows how to do less with more
2) will evangelize the program
3) well connected in one of VT's most critical recruiting grounds (the I-77 corridor from W-S down to Rock Hill)
4) I think the vast majority of the other names (Elliot would be awesome, but he isn't coming) are not happening
The one certainty is, he will be energetic at recruiting and selling the program. Good at it? Not sure yet. I am still gathering intel. But, that one makes sense.
I am really struggling to come up with viable candidates. Many of the experienced guys being named are either pipe dreams or not actually good coaches and the mention of their name gives me the sour belches (Franklin, James.)
One wild card I would put out there, if he would be interested, is Byron Leftwich. Fast riser in the ranks. Works for Bruce Arians- VT connection. Works in a high profile situation but young guy and from DC. I just have no idea if he has any interest in college and NFL head jobs may come calling.
If that's the criteria, let's give Fu another extension. /s
I have this sinking feeling that if we fire Fuente, we are somehow gonna and up with JHam as the head coach or something equally as befuddling.
I agree with what you're saying, but at least JHam can adapt. I think there was a recent player interview that said he was switching some coverage types to get the defense comfortable or based on who was out with covid . I'd say he's shown more growth in half a season than Corn or Fu has in 5 years
I'm with you on this. JHam is just taking his lumps at the worst time, since our offense is so up and down.
JHAM's problem is not his experience, nor his coaching ability. His issues is he doesn't have any great players. No difference makers on defense. None. Waller, Chatman and Deablo are very overrated. Deablo can't cover and takes horrible angles and gets bailed out by freelancing and raw athletic ability. Waller can't cover man to man, Chatman is a poor tackler. And these are some of his best guys. Ashby is a shell of himself- which at his height was Bud scheming him into inside tackles. He is not a difference maker. We do not have any depth at all and our DL is G5 ish. He needs a complete overhaul of talent on that side of the ball.
These starters you mentioned, the majority of which returned, cobbled together the 46th ranked total defense in 2019.
J-Ham has that unit at 95th total defense today. I'd argue that it is indeed an issue of his coaching ability and experience.
I said it somewhere else on TKP; but I don't think JHam deserves all the disrespect. His game plan against Pitt worked until they ran out of gas. Pitt's first half possessions: FG, Punt, Int, FG, FG, 3 and out, TD, 3 and out. VT offense: 3 and out, fumble, downs, 3 and out, 8 plays and punt, 9 second drive for TD, 8 play TD drive, 3 and out, half. The defense was on the field for most of the half.
The defense started the second half against Pitt: 3 and out, Int, FG, FG, 3 and out. The defense was not great; but we were holding our own; and the offense was not. The D just ran out of gas midway through the third quarter because they had been on the field too much and were down too many players.
Pitt took advantage of our missing players on D. We had a viable plan to contain their offense and protect our depleted secondary. The offense was unable to take advantage of Pitt's missing players and could not stay on the field long enough to give the D any rest.
But we failed to take advantage of their missing players on offense. It goes both ways, which I think falls on Hamilton. Pitt was the 92nd ranked total offense, down five starters, and they hung 47 points and 550 yards on Tech.
I agree re: JHam. He's shown flashes of brilliance; and he got really fucked by COVID. Didn't have time to implement the new system, or gel with his new staff. He got no help from the offense against Pitt.
Or Wake or Miami
And his unit did enough to win in both of those games.
Yep.
I'm not saying JHamm is the right move, but Dabo Swinney was also a befuddling hire at the time. Point is, I think people are too attached to coordinator experience when it comes to hiring a HC. All that X's & O's brilliance is wasted as the CEO. People skills, recruiting, player buy-in, organization, and adaptability become much more paramount at the HC level than the X's and O's.
Now again, I'm not saying I know/think JHamm is the guy to do that, but I wouldn't immediately condemn the decision either. Ideally we can hire somebody with those attributes who also has some HC experience.
Dabo was interim coach first, and showed that he could lead a program in those 6 games. He got Clemson bowl eligible and beat SCar. He got a lot of quick wins (not just on the field, but in the locker room/with fans) that got him a lot of buy in.
It would be like if JHam took over this week, opened the team to media, kicked the shit out of UVA and Pitt, played Clemson close and carried us to a bowl win.
Yep. That is one advantage to midseason firing. You essentially get two cracks at the hiring process, better odds.
Would be interesting to run the numbers and see if midseason firings actually result in better hires.
It would be because generally I am against it unless 1. The locker room is lost or 2. You have a HC candidate on staff you want to try out.
yeah I don't know how I feel about mid-season firings and interim coaches. I'm not sure it happens all that often.
Looking at your criteria and the situation at VT
1) Hard to tell if the locker room is lost. I don't think it is but I wouldn't be shocked if it went that way, sadly
2) Do we have anyone on the current staff who we think would be a good candidate for interim coach to try out? Nobody is jumping to front-of-mind for me
It would be interesting to see the stats on it (even though I'm sure the sample size is small) but I just don't think it's the right move for VT. Wait until Dec 16 and then let Fuente go and announce the new HC. IF Whit is going to fire Fuente (I hope he does but I'm not convinced he will) I would expect him to do so only if he has the next guy already lined up and ready to sign on the dotted line.
I agree with you. I am absolutely for riding the Fuente train through this season (and maybe longer depending on financials I am not privy to)
I haven't seen any significant sign of losing the locker room. And I don't think anybody on staff jumps out as an interim candidate.
Now as a hypothetical, if somebody like Shane was currently on staff, I would seriously consider him. It would provide a trial period, and if momentum was obtained you could hypothetically make the permanent move and still salvage the '21 recruit cycle (maybe). If it didn't look great, no harm done and you can proceed with the search.
Agreed
Vance Vice? Apparently he is the smartest guy on coaching staff (we've heard from interviews before). He also seems to be our best recruiter and developer (albeit for OL). Maybe he's got the right stuff to be team CEO?
From 2006 to 2015, there were 109 FBS coaches fired.
61 were fired after a losing season
25 were fired midseason
14 were fired before playing in a bowl game
9 were fired after playing in a bowl game
Defining a successful hire the next coach having over a .500 record in the first 4 seasons and brought back for at least a 5th season, or poached by another school, the success rate for the timing of each firing was:
32.00% (8/25) for schools that fired their HC after a losing season
32.79% (20/61) for schools that fired their HC midseason
22.22% (2/9) for schools that fired their HC after coaching in a bowl game
57.14% (8/14) for schools that fired their HC before coaching in a bowl game
So if we have a bowl game this year fire Fuente before the game? I'm okay with that
Fire him at 12:01 AM the day the buyout reduces
Yeah financially that makes sense. And maybe that will coincide with being between reg season and bowl game. But statistically, seems like we should fire him before bowl game
/SSSSSSSSSSSSS
To be *entirely* honest, Stiney should absolutely be on any future HC's (or Fuente if he sticks around) list for a position coach and/or recruiter.
He was not a good coordinator, but he knows how to recruit to VT and is a damn good coach.
Agreed. Stiney was a very good OL/TE coach.
Yep, position coach and recruiter would be great, but if there was ever a hint that he would be calling plays...I would provide all of TKP with the pitchforks and torches
i'll one up you with a guy who's even got FBS HC experience.....
So long as he isn't running the offense, or calling plays I'd
be ok withentertain it. Dude works his ass off and can recruit.We are not a school that hires 3-12 head coaches.
Eesh... I didn't realize it was that bad when I posted... but that's why I emphasized the word "entertain."
One thing to keep in mind, and I can't find the article just yet, but I seem to remember that when Whit left UC, the department was in a decent amount of debt. He had a pretty small budget to work with, and was aggressive with his spending so I'd imagine that the buyout will be less of an issue than some think.
I would guess, based on future projected revenue, VT wouldn't have all that hard of a time getting loans together to cover some/all of the buyout.
Does anyone think the possibility of no spring practice in 2021 due to Covid should factor into firing Fuente or not?
We could end up in a scenario that the new offense can't get installed and is as bad as this year's defense.
I'd rather just risk it and possibly suck year 1 with a new guy then go with one more year of Fuente in 2021, but interested to hear what others think.
I actually think a new coach would do better in 2021 than Fuente would, even with potential COVID restrictions messing up practice time. A new coach would at least spark a jolt of energy into the program. Fuente did that in 2016. The level of excitement throughout the program was up with a new coach. The players played with more fire and energy than they had in a couple years and that translated to a couple wins. The energy of the players on game-day has been so low several times this year that it feels like these coaches are just mailing it in anyway. Certainly a new coach would elevate the energy level and that alone could translate to a couple wins.
Maybe....but all teams are dealing with the same circumstances. UM was down 10 players on Saturday.
COVID has nothing to do with the game management (playing for 50 yard FGs etc), bad offensive game plans, bad defensive game plans.
There is a breakdown in fundamentals on both sides of the ball. Maybe the coaching staff is trying to do too much in limited time.
But that's what they are paid to do. Convert time into a resource. We have X time to teach the things that will give us the most advantage on Gameday.
There are extenuating circumstances this season but there is enough subpar performance by the coaches where I feel like the season would have gone the same regardless of the outcome.
I mean CJF and BC basically put the last two games on converting multiple 50+ yard FGs which is a bad idea in the NFL....let alone the ACC. Did they learn anything from Liberty to UM?
CJF and BC keep making the same mistakes. JHAM might be inexperienced but his unit improved from last week. Perhaps that is due to CJF running the scout team....but if that's the case it means BC can't do his job on his own.
Which begs the question: why does CJF stick with him?
This is the biggest reason that I'm not hammering on the defense this season. Yes, they're bad. We knew they would be though. And they're improving at a much more dramatic pace than the offense ever has. The offensive coaches have been here for 5 years now. The inconsistency of that unit is inexcusable at this point. I can forgive the defense for being bad in the first year with a completely new staff. Especially this year where that staff has been severely handicapped by a global pandemic. But the offense doesn't get the same leeway. And the offense, though it has looked great at times, is just not pulling it's weight IMO
This is the biggest mystery to me. I can't for the life of me come up with a reason why BC is still employed. Fuente has a huge blind spot and that is going to cost him his career. It's too bad, really. I like Fuente, for the most part, but his inability to recruit, aversion to the media, and stubborn loyalty to incompetent coaches will handicap him for his career. He has the potential to be a really good HC but if he doesn't cut the dead weight he's never going to get there.
I don't disagree with the overall point, but it's worth emphasizing that this is a rumor. The only reason it feels real is that people keep repeating it.
I believe that where there is smoke there is fire. There is an awful lot of smoke there...
Is there smoke aside from people repeating the same rumor from the same anonymous source all from one errant message board post? It's very easy on the internet for something to be repeated so many times that our brains tell us it must be true, despite the fact that it's really all just one rumor from one unreliable source.
you make a valid point. I'll retract that part of my post.
Is the source unreliable? Jugs is normally spot on.
I think that all has to be taken with a major grain of salt. The game was one additional Covid test away from being canceled with Miami down a ton of offensive line help. Was it an issue of J-Ham coaching better, or an issue of Miami having major personnel issues. or some combination of both issues?
The results on the field are what they are.
You could say the same thing about the offense being bad, add grains of salt until its not any coaches fault.
That's exactly what the pro-Fuente crowd has been doing though. Saying COVID wrecked his season. Everyone else is dealing with it, so we have to call a spade a spade.
I'm interesting in seeing how teams that have replaced a coordinator this offseason are doing versus those who did not. Thinking about doing a post on it, but my hypothesis is that teams that are implementing a new scheme in 2020 are doing significantly worse (on average) than teams that are not.
That doesn't mean that we should ignore this season's results when evaluating Fuente; just that (1) there are complicating factors and (2) it's an oversimplification to say 'everyone else is dealing with it' because the 'it' is a little bit different for everyone.
Incomplete list
DC: LSU, Ohio State, Texas, USC, Arizona, Arizona State (internal promotion)
OC: Auburn, Oklahoma State (internal promotion), Penn State, UGA, Indiana (internal promotion), Miami, Minnesota, SCar, Texas, ND (internal promotion), Nebraska, Oregon
I think @hokiecamel is referencing something that CC talked about on the TSL podcast today...
Based on the trajectory of things, there's no reason to think that Spring Practice is guaranteed. With that in mind, a new coaching staff will have absolutely zero time to work with their players and begin installing new schemes (see PSU offense, see FSU, see VT defense). Additionally, there's no recruiting visits until April now. That means as bad as Fuente has been recruiting, the new coach would likely have a worse year or two without being able to establish any relationships at all leading into next season.
The thought process is that you simply hunker down for another year with Fuente, you know what you've got, save a few million $$ and get out onto the market for the 2022 season when things have a better change of being back to normal.
Not saying I agree, but that was the take.
I disagree with that perspective for several reasons. First, you're only kicking the can down the road for $2.5 million. At this point, the damage in losing fan interest and donors for another year of Fu just isn't worth it in the long-run. For each year we prolong this, we are making the rebuild longer and more difficult. You've got to have some hope to sell this fan base on.
Second, hunker down with Fu because we know what we have? What we have is not good and not getting any better. Recruiting is bad and is going to completely bottom out after another year of this. The next staff will literally have nothing to work with for years. It may take them years to dig out from the mess.
Third, I don't think what may or may not happen in the future due to the effects of Covid should factor in at all. We literally don't know what the spring will look like at this point. A lot of people thought we wouldn't have a fall season at all. Not making a critical move because of something that may or may not happen isn't good reason for inaction. We need to make the best decisions for this program now and assume there will be a spring, not use uncertainty to justify keeping this staff another year. Say we hang on to Fu and there is no spring, how much development do you think will happen? Then we are right back here having the same conversation a year from now having done further damage to the program and brand.
I seriously just can't grasp what the benefit of waiting another year would be. The marginal amount of savings in the buyout will be dwarfed by the loss in revenue and potential long-term harm to the program by prolonging the inevitable.
via GIPHY
This is probably a good approach. Emotionally I disagree with it. But also who cares? I'll probably just check out next year if Fuente is kept.
I actually don't disagree with this position. But if we were to stick with Fuente another year to reduce that buyout, then I'd also like for him to get rid of Corny immediately and be the OC himself. No need to hire a replacement, and Fuente should have the chops to do the job well all by himself.
Firing Corny would save us some money in the near term and settle *some* of the pitchforks. Firing Shibest should be a priority as well, though I'd think we'd need to hire a special teams coordinator of some sorts for the interim. Lechtenberg?
Oh my goodness I just think I answered my own question.
Ok so Corny should go and Fuente should coach the offense by himself. That works.
But we absolutely need to get rid of Shibest as well. That leaves us short a special teams coordinator.
But you know what?!?
There is an EXCELLENT special teams coach who lives in Blacksburg. Frank Beamer!
Fire Corn and make FU permanent O-C, Scout and maybe even Special teams coach.
Since he wittingly neglects, dislike and is bad at all other intangible duties (i.e., fundraising, recruiting, access, program maintenance, etc.) that are important to most successful P-5 coaches, then he certainly can spend more time in these other roles instead of watching film all day, especially since he loves Scout so much.
Hire Shane as ST coordinator
I think the potential COVID drag is even more of a reason to cut ties with Fuente. He has proven that he is unable to recruit in person, which leads me to believe he is even less able to recruit when having to use Teams or Zoom to video chat with a recruit. Give me someone that can generate buzz or get a recruit excited from afar and I bet come April that guy is closing the deal when visits open up.
South Carolina pulled the trigger b/c they knew they'd lose more money from donations, etc due to fan apathy. This has been broadcast everywhere since yesterday's firing. It only makes sense to cut the cord now. There's no "savings" to lost revenue. Ticket sales, donations, merchandise, etc. That net loss projection doesn't help with a lowered buyout after another potential losing season.
That dude from Central Florida. Probably won't come though cause of his ties to the Big 12
Willie Taggart?
Brian Stinespring for HC? Sure but only if we can get Curt Newsome at OC and Mike O'Cain to reprise his role coaching QB's.
Ive said it before but Stiney could work as our HC if you went the Clemson mode and hired a great OC and DC. Stiney was a great recruiter and had good in-state contacts but was a shit OC.
Ive been high on Fuente since he came, but even Im starting to look at greener pastures. It got me thinking, who is the 2nd best coach in the ACC? Top 5?
From a perception standpoint Id say:
1.) Dabo
2.) Mack Brown??
3.) Mike Norvell (preseason)
4.) Fuente (after the first 2 games, now, who knows??)
5.) Manny? Clawson? Satterfield maybe?
From a win/loss standpoint: (understanding some are too new and some are trending up/down)
1.) Dabo: 137 - 32 (81%)
2.) Mack Brown: 12-7 (63%)
3.) Manny Diaz: 13-8 (62%)
4.) Justin Fuente: 37-24 (61%)
5.) Jeff Hafley: 5-4 (56%)
6.) Narduzzi: 40-33 (55%)
7.) Doeren: 52-46 (53%)
8.) Clawson: 40-43 (48%)
9.) Satterfield: 10-11 (47%)
10.) Bronco: 28-31 (47%)
11.) Cutcliffe: 74-85 (47%)
12.) Dino Babers: 24-33 (42%)
13.) G. Collins: 5-14 (26%)
14.) Mike Norvell: 2-6 (25%)
Can you also do rankings of win percentage minus the coaches first season?
And one against G5
If you asked me who has performed the best so far (ignoring Dabo obviously), it would be (1) Mack Brown, (2) Clawson, (3) Bronco
If you asked me who I would want to hire to start leading my program tomorrow (again, ignoring Dabo), it would be:
I think Bronco's ceiling is 8-9 wins. Mack only has a three years tops left in him. These coaches have the highest upside IMO.
I don't keep up closely with recruiting at other schools, so I have to ask, what is the innovative strategy for Collins? It seems to me that his strategy is to recruit kids to Atlanta instead of Georgia Tech. I have to admit, that's a smart strategy for that school, but I don't know that it translates to any other school (maybe Miami). What's his innovation that is replicable at our school?
Removed this part from a previous comment of mine. I have no idea whether Fuente is going anywhere. As a financial analyst, I can say that we're looking at his buyout like it was any other year and not one in which we're losing a lot of money and no guarantee we'll be in a better situation next year. Unless some donors offer to buy him out (maybe some of our ex-pro players who maybe don't like him?), I think getting rid of Fuente is an expense we probably can't afford right now. I guess we get to wait and see what happens in December.
I want to plug Bill Clark at UAB on that list.
And he can bring along the Defensive Coordinator with him. Look at the numbers on Defense since the team got football back.
Any word on Bud Foster's health, I always thought of him as our next Head Coach but at 61, it will be very tough.
Among Programs with winning Records, here are a few guys to think about not in any particular order:
Sonny Dykes, SMU
Off course Luke Fickell - probably not gonna happen
Hugh Freeze
Bryan Harsin
I posted in this thread or another - unless his health has dramatically changed in the last year, he can't coach.
I missed this memo - what are the health issues?
SI Article
Stress will really get after ya. If I'm Bud, I enjoy my retirement at the lake.
I've been thinking about Sonny Dykes, and although I like the resume, he really struggled as the head coach at Cal.
How I picture DC reading through this thread:
yup
I don't think that the positive leaning posters understand that the negative leaning posters aren't really happy that Fuente needs to be replaced. I would have been extremely happy to see Fuente and therefor Tech succeed. I wish we weren't in this situation
Agreed TJB. I am one of the generally positive folks who still appreciates the balance of having negative leaning folks like DC offering their opinions. I believe that we Hokies unanimously wanted CJF to enjoy wild success at VT on and off the field. Sadly, the past several years have been greatly disappointing. I expect next season will be the make or break year for CJF with a senior QB, strong O-line, and a defense that has had some time to implement the new staff's scheme. Firing CJF at the end of this season has some merit, but I think he gets a minimum of one more year due to the Covid confusion of this year being a viable excuse. Before the Fire Fuente crowd attacks this take, please keep in mind that the team has never appeared to give up on the field this year. The losses have all been close contests where a the game was still up for grabs deep into the fourth quarter. I do believe CJF won't be at VT long term (five years from now) but I expect to see him on the sidelines next season.
.....
I was infatuated with Fu and Corn after the first year. The uptempo, non-stop scoring was freaking amazing. Fast forward 5 years and I am kind of actually glad we are in this situation.
Personally, watching Va Tech football had been an extreme passion of mine since enrolling in '99. I would get really high up, love every second of each game, and also yell, scream, cuss, break stuff, and ruin everyone's weekend (including mine) if we lost.
HOWEVER, I was making breakfast yesterday and realized it is kind of nice to not expect us to win any of the games we play. Then I thought, this must be what it feels like to be a UVA fan or fan of an average football program. The likelihood of us losing games, no matter Vegas odds, seems to be more than 50% now. I watched Miami last week and experienced close to zero emotion during the game and after the loss. My expectations were neutral and there ended up being no negative impact to my weekend or my family's b/c of VT football.
It is bittersweet, because I love Va Tech football, but now, I no longer have to be terrorized by it.
Disagree with the sentiment, it's really sad that die hard fans are now completely disconnected and apathetic. Lol also we are not uptempo. Thanks for sharing tho
Seen some Clawson on here, and Babers for some reason, but I think the only guy in the ACC you could pry from his job would be Satterfield. Was listening to the Yahoo podcast and Pat Forde mentioned that he thinks Satterfield doesn't like Louisville because it's too big of a city. Honestly that sounds like a guy who is perfect at VT.
I'd also take a look at Mike Houston, ECU isn't setting the world on fire right now, but he inherited a dumpster fire and hes still trying to extinguish it.
Satterfield would be a great hire. He built a great program at App State.
I considered Mike Houston as well, but I think he needs to prove he can win at the FBS level before he gets interest for a P5 job. ECU is his first job at an FBS program.
I absolutely love Mike Houston. I watched him on the field at practice and in the games here at JMU. I watched him interact with fans, with players and with his coaches. The guy knows how to run a program and he understands life in the small town. Everyone here loved him, and not simply because he was winning.
He stated that he had absolutely no idea how bad the situation was at ECU before his arrival. The talent was far less than what he had anticipated, and less than he had at JMU; the Athletic Department was not in ideal shape and the booster situation was spiraling downhill (Pepsi is the key party/situation here). I think Mike Houston will get things turned around there. I also think it will be just the right timing where UNC or NCSU will be able to make a hire and he'll end up at one of those two places.
I don't know how coaches don't do this due diligence before taking a job. I research the shit out of an opportunity before excepting; not sure how/why coaches don't.
I think this is a fair question. But expecting things to be bad and realizing exactly how bad are two different things IMO. I've been there before.
In any event, my sentiments about Mike Houston remain the same.
Yeah as someone who follows ECU pretty closely it wasn't clear on the surface. Star wise Scottie Montgomery recruited decently well at ECU, but he was horrible at developing talent. Also heard from sources he was clearly using the job as a stepping stone. Wasn't friendly and didn't make good connections with the existing ECU athletic staff and didn't give a shit about the state of facilities. He was basically the polar opposite of Ruffin McNeil who shouldn't have been fired, and pissed a lot of people off there even before losing.
1 name I haven't seen anyone bring up that would be an absolute home run hire would be Chris Peterson who was at Boise and Washington, he can really recruit and has proven he knows how to coach. However moving across country may not be ideal or something he would even entertain. I think if I had my choice of any semi-realistic candidate he would be #1
He would also be my #1 candidate (I'd take Peterson over Saban, and I'm 100% serious), but landing him is not even semi-realistic. It's completely unrealistic.
I agree. He seems like one of the less insane coaches who wasn't completely addicted to the process like mose of these guys. I think he's very much enjoying retirement. I don't know if he'd listen to anyone honestly
Yeah whatever happened to him.
He's a West coast guy though I wonder if he would be down to come all the way out here.
He retired because he didn't want to coach anymore
He also absolutely hates recruiting.
Charlie Strong.
No thanks
Hard pass.
I think the phys ed teacher at Margaret Beeks has some availability...
Will Healy from Charlotte?
Realistically - who would want the job ? You can't compete against Clemson, UNC will be a tough out, UM is a wildcard. I don't know that the job is really very appealing to coaches at this point. Top end , you can recruit top 25 class, but it's extremely hard to get to that top end. The pay won't be the bottom, but there will be assistants making more than our next HC, especially if we make a change now with revenue as bad as it is. The money for assistants is pretty bad as seen on what we did on D this year. Just don't see it being very attractive. We'll get a bunch of CJFs or Steve Adduzzio types.
I think your over estimating the quality of the competition; we're in one of the easier divisions in college football. UNC and UM will be tough outs, but they're hardly unbeatable. The pay will be top 40 (including private schools who don't report salaries). The facilities are good, and the recruiting can be top 25. I'm not sure we'll be able to lure the hottest prospect here, but I still think this is an attractive job.
I doubt it. Fuente made $3.25M when he was first hired. The highest paid (current) assistant is Brent Venables at $2.2M. Whit is not firing Fuente unless he can afford to get a suitable replacement.
I feel like there's so much nonsensical/arbitrary complaining about our financial situation in general that people just start running with assumptions like this to the point where people are gonna start saying that we have to hire a high school coach soon.
So it maybe a bit of hyperbole, but I do firmly believe that Venables salary is close to what we'll be able to pay. It'll be in 2.5 - 3 M area. If we go higher, then you're looking at more JHam type assistants. There is finite resources here compared to schools we like to compare ourselves with.
JHam's pay is so low (in part) because there's two assistants making a lot of money (Claeys at ~$500k and Teerlinck at ~$400k) who are there to balance out JHam's inexperience. If you take $100k away from each of them, you could afford to pay a DC $800k, which is pretty competitive.
None of those three are earning their money, at the moment.
The purposes of my comment is not to defend the current coaches; it's just to point out that we could pay new coordinators more by rearranging the pay that position coaches receive.
Yeah, nobody in their right mind would ever come to Blacksburg, especially not to coach a football team. Who knew Virginia Tech even had a P5 football program? /s
I recognize the /s, but serious question. When we were looking for a new HC, wasn't Tech listed as one of the more desirable HC jobs out there, from facilities, fan base, history of winning, etc.? I wonder if we'd still be listed as being as desirable now?
It's a more than reasonable question to gauge the desirability of VT, it's not at all reasonable to just say it sucks haha. I think it's still pretty desirable. It's kind of in that limbo realm between stepping stone and destination job imo. Just because one anti-social and stubborn coach hasn't had great success doesn't mean it's not a job that coaches would want.
GJP said this in one of the many fire/replace Fuente threads:
My fear is that Fuente's challenges have exposed a lot of cracks in VT's foundation, and that coaches who previously thought that VT was a turnkey job will now view it as a program that has built in disadvantages.
Comparing it against all the other jobs in the country, are those cracks significantly worse than most other schools? The right guy can cover up those cracks or even fill them. I don't think any smart coach should've known in 2015 that VT is not a machine like Wisconsin. If Fuente thought it was, he was never going to succeed here.
Fuente will be gone, not a matter of if at this point just a matter of when. I don't think he would save his job even with wins over Clemson and UVA. Whit is hearing the fans loud and clear and the lack of donor support loud and clear. Doesn't mean Fuente is a bad guy, hell he may be a great guy, but that doesn't mean he should be our coach.
Don't get me wrong, I'd be impressed if he got those final 2 Ws, and possibly a Bowl W...
But I'm done with the Fuente Era.
Ruffin McNeil
I woudn't hate it... It's not a splashy hire, but it's a safe hire. My biggest concern would be his age - at 62 years old, we're basically saying this our guy for 5 years. If he surrounds himself with the right staff, I could support it.
Mack Brown would like a word...
Also, 5 years would be the perfect amount of time for him to turn things around so that Mike Houston, who will have ECU rolling at that point, can come in and make us really good!
Ruffin McNeil is not Mack Brown though. Brown knows the state, is a house hold name, an accomplished recruiter, and has won a Natty. I have a ton of respect for Ruffin, but he's a completely different person, and this would be a completely different situation.
He does have name recognition, was pretty universally liked across NC, developed a good program in an absolute middle of nowhere crappy town, and hired/developed assistant coaches that are now running major CFB programs (I.e. Lincoln Riley). I think he is a program builder, which we need right now. I can see it working out really well.
I was referencing what you said your "biggest concern" was - age. Those other concerns are certainly legitimate, but age wise he's younger than Mack Brown
Ruffin is my guy, I e had a chance to speak to him a couple of times when he was at ECU, but the health of himself and his father is probably preventing him from wanting the stress of a head coaching job
I think we need to #InventTheFuture, and reanimate a legendary coach:
give us Zombie Bear Bryant!
A more practical recommendation:
I talk Matt Entz into leaving Fargo for Blacksburg, then we'll have a National Championship-winning coach.
I call Bill Bedenbaugh, Co-OC and OL coach and one of Rivals top 25 recruiters for the past 3 years to be HC and try to poach Cincinnati's DC.
2020 Top 25 Recruiters
This guys looks like he asks you to pull his finger and then sharts himself.
Yeah, I think that reinforces the sentiment
If he can win games with poop in his pants, all the more credit to him
This is him realizing what just happened.
He's calculating the likelihood he'll be able to successfully flush his freshly soiled size 52 jockeys down the nearest commode before anyone notices.
"Oh no, not again, not on picture day!"
"Szechuan Mac and Cheese from Sheetz isn't for breakfast. Szechuan Mac and Cheese from Sheetz isn't for breakfast. Szechuan Mac and Cheese...."
I always wondered what Andy did after he left Dunder Mifflin.
A lot of stress-eating, apparently.
We could also snag Derek Mason as DC when he gets canned at Vandy. Good coordinator and pretty good recruiter at Stanford, just not cut out to be a head coach imo
Given how bad the team is likely to be over the next 3 to 5 years (already light on top talent, going to lose some its best players to the portal and the draft, weak last 2 recruiting classes), I'm taking the all in approach on finding young, energetic coaches that will provide hope with a vision, and open up the program to let the fans and the media in on that process. Hard to feel attached to a team that keeps wanting to close the door on you; give me something to get excited about. Wish they'd look for coaches that are moving up through the ranks quickly, and then let them push the envelop on what the program can be.
After much thought I just wanted to add that I think the admin should just steer clear of Shane Beamer.
As everyone's mentioned the concerns with him from VA recruiting are just one thing. He could have tremendous success.
But could you imagine if what happened to Fuente happened to Shane? The dumpster fire we see now would only be that much more of an emotional tsunami if the administration and fan base ever had to suggest we needed to cut ties with the son of Beamer. What an ugly thing to have to think about
That sentiment was echoed on a recent podcast.
There are some good points, about the drawbacks of a possible Shane hire.
We want someone who can win, recruit, and energize the base at bargain basement prices. Checking out Jamey Chadwell, we might want to go after him, sooner rather than later.
Yep definitely believe he should be the guy if we can't get Fickell.
Very unpopular take here, but if we can't get either, we should keep Fuente for another year.
Fickell is choice 1, 2 and 3. There will be some serious competition for him, especially if the Tennessee job opens up.
Fickle isn't happening. Dude loves the Midwest. Either he takes Michigan for $8m/year, or he stays at Cindy until OSU or ND open up. He ain't coming to VT for a lousy $3m raise.
I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong, but I'll bet my salary that I'm right.
Hope he wants Michigan b/c ND and OSU aren't opening up anytime soon. Day is super young and has OSU on it's normal trajectory. Might have had a shot at ND a few years ago but Kelley seems to have them trending up the past 3 or so.
I'm not sold on Ryan Day yet... He's winning with Urban's players. Could be a Fuente situation. We'll see in a couple years.
But OSU sells itself. With Michigan and PSU down there isn't really any competition for them in the B1G. He doesn't need to recruit as hard as Fuente does. The lure is winning, and they are in the national title hunt every year.
He's still recruiting very very well. Maybe he won't know what to do with the knew guys, but they will be just as talented as ever.
agree
My brother in law (big OSU fan) would say 'make no mistake, Ryan Day is legit.' He tells me about how there were former head coaches already on staff when he was named head coach there, yet he got the job. And how it wasn't even close - he moved up through their ranks quickly, and there was buzz around him inside and outside the program before he officially took over, and that fans that pay attention weren't worried about the non-big name hire at all.
He's an OSU guy through and through, unlikely he can stomach a switch to Ann Arbor
I agree with you based on what I've heard, but if Michigan offers $8-$10M, I think it's really really hard to say no.
I think if Mich was offering him that much he would hold out for another similar tier job knowing they would offer him the same. I get most of my cfb info from Cover 3 and they painted him as a guy who just won't consider going there.
Part of me thinks that keeping Fickell in Cincy could be part of a larger play by the school to get into the P5, ideally the ACC. They got the money and would be an excellent fit IMO
🤔
And so it begins
Who would want a guy that rides a train when he has airline tickets?
I mean... why else would he be headed to Blacksburg around the holidays? It's not like he has family there...
The perfect cover
this GIF creeps me out...but I'm not entirely sure why...?
His mouth and teeth are too big for his face
Well its actually a plane headed to OKC, not coming from OKC. So maybe Whit is making a trip...
So as someone who doesn't read flight trackers at all I'm assuming that's a private jet if no airline is listed?
FLIGHT TRACKERRRRR!!!!
I can't find the specific post, but some of you have alluded that HS's across Virginia don't like him. Why is that? I was talking to someone else who said the exact opposite?
He did score some recruits, maybe not a whole lot of contributors. His biggest issue was ego. Not hard to burn bridges if coaches stop talking to you. He also recruited during VT's last years with Frank, which were 6-6 struggles. So, I don't know how much of it was him, or that our program was in decline.
I will add however, we were light years behind the support staff he had at SCar, UGA, and now at Oklahoma. He pulled in the best QB (in my humble opinion) in the 21 class from Gonzaga.
The 247 List
Maybe Shane is listed as his primary recruiter...but let's be honest, he is going to Oklahoma to play in Lincoln Riley's offense. THAT is the primary recruiting tool, not Shane.
Maybe realistic is a stretch here but Coach Kevin Kelley. It would be megaBeamerballsout. VT would simply own special teams for better or worse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyulCHxxQC8&feature=youtu.be
Keep an eye out for DL coach Larry Johnson from Ohio State. I didn't realize he was the Assistant Head Coach. He'll be coaching them on Saturday with Ryan Day out with Covid. Johnson is one of the best recruiters, if not the best in the country.
He is but he was at PSU for a while and he has a reputation for being a bit of an asshole
Are you suggesting he may be in the running as the next HC? An interesting play, but he'd be 69 next year. Not against it at all, but wondering if there's more behind the comment.
I was. I didn't realize he was 69 though.
P5 experience, recruiting, in game coaching, young, doing less with more? Matt Campbell checks all boxes. Only downside would be he doesn't know the region yet, but he adapted well to Iowa State. Great win today for the Cyclones, they should win the Big 12.
I like the idea, but no way we can afford to buy out both Fuente and Campbell from their current contracts.
Tommy Rees, ND OC
He has only coached college for 3 years.
He's also like 26
One of the reasons why we are saying he should replace sands.
We need to get younger, especially at the president position, and Rees has a huge track record of of things around the Great Lakes area and will be able to hire a great AD.
Ryan. Silverfield.
Because the Memphis-to-ACC Coaching Pipeline must keep going strong. He also coached at Hampden-Sydney, so there's the connection to Virginia College Football. He can be hired for cheap, too. We have a winner. /s
After Texas lost to Iowa State, Herman might become available. At least our recruiting will pick up.
Does Todd Washington want to leave his NFL OL Coaching gig and come to VT? I haven't really combed through his resume so how terrible is this idea?
As HC? His resume is no where near good enough.
At this point, I don't think I'll actually be excited about whoever the next coach is. I'll certainly be relieved that we're heading in a new direction because that's what I think we need right now. But I was excited about Fuente at the time and we've all seen how that played out. No one really knows what will happen. I'll be excited in 3 years when the new coach has demonstrated, without a doubt, that his teams are progressing, developing, and generally getting better with time. And doing it while recruiting improves and the coaching doesn't look so questionable. Sure, coaches might have bad games but two or three bad games a year (which is the new norm for us) just isn't good enough.
Interested to hear what, if anything Chadwell does to the player(s) that mugged the BYU QB right before the half that led to the fight in that game
Wouldn't be surprised if he encouraged that behavior.
Fraud Tweet Removed.
With how tight of a ship Whit seems to run I wouldn't believe any rumors until something is announced officially. I'm hopeful that we'll find out something on Dec 16th. I think it's unlikely to happen any sooner than that.
All that said, I don't think Grantham would be my top choice. Or even in my top 5.
"With how tight of a ship Whit seems to run I wouldn't believe any rumors until something is announced officially."
Exactly. Any coaching candidate that you hear rumors about for the VT job is a result of their agent putting the rumors out there in order to get them a pay increase and/or extension at their current job or to capture the attention of other places with openings.
Grantham as HC, does he bring Gray to be DC or keep Hamilton?
I would personally love a Grantham hire. 1 he's a VA guy not a fish out of water. 2. Give me a guy who played in the trenches and values hard hitting physical football
Yuck.
Hard no from me.
It would be difficult for me to watch Hokie football if Grantham were the guy.
I'd like to make a PSA about this guy "Keith".
As far as I can tell, he does not exist. There is nothing about him *anywhere* on the internet except this Twitter account.
For someone who was "in media service" for 42 years, that is fishy as hell.
I'm at the point where I don't care who it is as long as Brad Cornelson isn't in the booth with him
I liked the Elliott idea, but nothing about how Clemson looked on offense last night made me excited about him. That was a very uninspired offensive performance.
They seemed to be sleepwalking a bit, but why didn't they just run it down our throats?
Their OL wasn't great. But, they could have run go routes all day, especially when the single high safety started moving way early. Their WRs had a big edge outside, and Rogers (their best guy) was one on one with Deablo and Taylor a bunch.
how much of their offensive performance being uninspiring could possibly be due to them going super vanilla because, 1) they thought we were bad enough they could get away with it and 2) they wanted to do the bare minimum in order to save some stuff for ND and the playoffs?
So, this isn't meant to be snarky at all - I just haven't been keeping up as closely with the team this year.
Anyway, how sure are we that Fuente/Corny are gone this year? It seems like a lot of the casual fans are thinking that there's no way the Athletic Department can take the hit from his buyout, but others "in the know" think that he's definitely gone and that the decision is basically made already.
Sorry if someone's already confirmed this or this has already been asked!
I think it's a fair question. It's hard to say what will happen but I think we'll all know in a few weeks. If Fuente isn't gone by Christmas then I think it's unlikely he's going anywhere.
Don't trust any rumors until something is announced officially. That's a good rule of thumb IMO.
That said, we're fanatics by definition and we're going to speculate and debate possibilities til the cows come home. It's just what we do.
If you want to take leaks from the SC coaching search at face value (and they basically all wound up being correct), Whit was talking to candidates behind the scenes, which I don't think he would be doing if there were no chance he could manage a Fuente buyout later this month.
I would normally say don't trust any leaks about Whit but I am more inclined to believe leaks that come from outside the VT Bubble like that.
Yes thank you. Everyone keeps shouting "whit runs a tight ship" while ignoring the simple fact that there are two parties privy to every conversation. This stuff gets out. People shot me down for saying we didn't reach out to Shane. Well, if we didn't reach out to Shane, how could whit leak that? How many times did basketball search names get leaked last year? It happens.
Yep fair question. We won't know for a few more days but that being said there is A LOT of smoke that this is already a done deal. So much so that me sitting here in Shanghai have heard from independent sauces that it is a done deal. but who knows... maybe it's all for not
The new hire is a done deal or just the firing?
dollars have been provided for the exit
.
just made my monday
The hay's in the barn. That's a very good thing.
Did anyone catch the 60 Minutes piece last night on college athletic budgets? As if we weren't aware already, athletic budgets are taking a huge hit and Olympic sports (particularly men's programs) are on the chopping block in many places. It's an awfully difficult environment to offer up a $10mil buyout, unless it's coming from donors (a la USCe). Even then, it's not an ideal look.
I have a pretty big issue with this idea. Football is the main driver behind the athletic department. Even though this has been a bad year due to COVID it's still critically important to get the football program working because it drives everything else. If you're worried about how it might look to shell out some cash for a new football coach after having to fire the swimming and diving assistant (totally made that up to make a point) you're missing the forest for the trees. VT absolutely has to get rid of Fuente. He's blasting holes through the hull of an already sinking ship. If Fuente stays much longer there will be no money to keep the swimming and diving coaches in non-COVID years. Saving a few pennies in the short term because "optics" is a really really bad business decision. It will cost VT's athletic department much much more in the long run if Fuente isn't fired.
Scenario A) Fire Fuente and be cash-strapped for a few years while the new coach builds the program back up. Sit with some other losses in the department for a few years. Invest in football so that there is a program left for those other teams in the future
Scenario B) Save the money now (and likely for the next few years) and watch as the football program continues it's plummet towards rock bottom. Rejoice in the fact you kept the swimming and diving head coach by not firing Fuente....until you realize in 5 years that because there isn't enough revenue generated by the football program you have to completely cut entire sports programs, including swimming and diving.
I'll take the bad optics now for a more secure future, please.
One name I just started seeing pop up more on twitter is Marcus Freeman (not in a "sources say he's coming to VT" way, but in a "this guys should definitely get consideration" type of way), currently serves as DC for Cincinnati
I don't know much about him, aside from what he gives up in this interview.
Considering the budget, which may or may not be a real issue, maybe they should just take a chance on J Ham. Bud said sometimes someone "just has it" [paraphrased], and it worked out real well for Clemson when they took a chance on Dabo. J Ham loves the program, has shown that he can make the hires to surround himself with skilled people in areas he himself is deficient, and I would hate to see his coaching career get sidetracked just because the HC is replaced. He's hungry, he's flexible and would continue to make adjustments until he has the right recipe. Defense isn't great this season, but we knew it would take time.
J'Ham is going to land on his feet. He's a well respected young up-and-comer.
To JHam's credit, the defense has actually improved a bit.
IMHO, the defense played really well last night - just got put in a couple of backbreaking situations and lost spirit in the fourth quarter when the game was out of reach.
Going to throw out another name that I've seen be floated on Twitter: Charles Huff at Alabama. Played at Hampton. Recruited the hell out of VA at Penn State. Has worked along side James Franklin and Nick Saban.
Maurice Freeman. Also might need to make a pt 2 thread. It's killing my phone😂
Am I the only one that thinks Fuente is the right guy going forward? I don't like what has happened over the past year or past years, but at the end of the day, he seems to be a guy that is committed to our university and the football program, and I think he has what it takes to make VT a solid program over the long haul. He has implemented changes in the recruiting department, and that is an ongoing situation. Let the changes have a few years to settle in. The dude isn't a 30-year head coach...he is also learning and should be given that time. If you step back and take a look at some of the bigger changes you will see that the program is moving in a more sustainable direction. No, we haven't won as many games and our recruiting doesn't "appear" to be trending up, but there's a ton of context to that and Fuente doesn't appear to be totally incompetent.
We all have this unreal expectation of what VT Football is based on what happened because of 2-3 specific individuals. Take away Foster, Vick, and Beamer, and VT is what we see today. Hell, take away 5-10 years of the Beamer era and he was about as good as we've seen from Fuente. We are not rich, we are geographically remote, and therefore we can't play the same game as Clemson/Bama year in/year out.
We can fire Fuente, but what I cant understand is why everybody thinks that is going to solve anything. The Beamers and Fosters of the world weren't born that way...they were given some time to learn and grow and develop.
I agree with a lot of this but then I remember that recruiting is by far the most important thing in college football.
That's a lot to digest. Let me ask you this, what should the realistic expectation be? Because it seems like those expectations have been lowered because of some unsubstantiated affection for a coach who doesn't seem to share the same affection for us.
Just started a second thread for this since we're more than 800 comments deep on this one.
Kindly see the part 2 thread
https://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2020/december/7/premature-who-could-v...