Guess what week it is y'all!? I really hope we get to go to some races this year. Hard to believe the last one I attended was last years Daytona. I'm so happy to have it back, this winter has been the worst.
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Whew. Was beginning to worry this thread wasn't gonna get made lol feels like yesterday we were down there for the races. Can't wait!
Maybe you NASCAR guys will watch a little more IndyCar this year with Jimmie Johnson in the mix going for rookie of the year.
I watch all racing. I follow Indy it's just not that much fun on TV.
I hope Jimmie is able to do well there. It would give it a little more crossover from the NASCAR fans. That's
Wish I could get down to Sebring for the IMSA races again this year but both COVID and my work schedule aren't going to allow it.
I'm excited F1 season gets rolling in a little over a month. Sir Lewis just signed a single year contact so 2022 is really going to be a year to watch.
Fellow f1 fan checking in. Completely agree that the 2022 season with new regs should be extremely interesting. I am definitely here for all the driver reshuffling that just took place!
Pretty odd that Hamilton only signed a 1yr deal with Mercedes. It will be interesting to see if he makes a move next year, maybe to try and silence doubters that 6 of his titles are only because he drives the best car.
check out IMSA at Virginia International Raceway August 20-22
Oh man. I'm ready. Haven't been in two years because my Pancreas exploded and then the pandemic. I really cannot wait to go back.
Really looking forward to the new schedule this year. With the additional road courses, it'll be great to see if anyone can compete with Chase. Last year was a lot of fun. Hoping to see the #12 break through.
Same. Something I hadn't really thought of until now, this is kind of a put up or shut up year...for the fans. Almost everybody has been clamoring and begging for a changeup in the schedule for years. Screaming for more road courses (Nascar really outdid themselves on this front), short tracks (ehh...we got dirt at Bristol for a year, I can't fathom them going thru with this every year forever unless they just absolutely set the woods on fire with the spring race), less "cookie cutter tracks." Nascar's fanbase, whether it's the majority or extremely loud, whiny minority, complain...a lot. We have no excuse not to show up in droves this year because Steve Phelps has stepped out on a big ass limb.
We didn't get more short track races, though, they just converted one to dirt. I was really hoping when the dirt race was being teased that it would be a 3rd visit to Bristol, not replacing one of the existing two. We will get a new short track in SoCal whenever they get around to reconfiguring Auto Club Speedway, but I would imagine that'll only be one race a year, increasing the total from 6 to 7. Not nearly as crazy as doubling the number of road course races on the schedule (triple from where it was like 3 or 4 years ago).
If you all are interested, I work at VIR and I'm sure we could organize a "VT area", or something like that, for the IMSA race in August? This would first depend on COVID protocols at that time. If you get me a headcount, I could organize a tent, catering, etc on our hospitality row.
If you haven't been, VIR is a real gem for VA and we're still trying to get the word out there. Don't take my word for it, ask those that have been or pick up this months CAR and DRIVER, it's Lightning Laps edition is done there.
I got a group of boys that would love that.
Just opened your profile. Hey Mike! Happy your are on TKP. We have met you up there a few times. We like riding around in the highly decorated golf carts. We camp in hog pen with a pool.
Oh yeah, I now know EXACTLY who you are. LOL
We'll see if others want to meet up and even if we just come up with a spot to enjoy a few drinks together (maybe around the Pavillion) that would be cool
Our notoriety very much excites me just so you know.
Heck of a finish to the Busch Clash. FKB tho.
By God what a great Clash. I am itching. I want to see some cars in person pronto.
For a reason I can't remember, I wasn't able to watch but like the last couple laps of the summer date there last year. I do not remember that course being that damn long.
Love to see them wrecking on the last lap! Exciting! Maddy D top 10 (10th). Go 21.
Cars on track every day now till Sunday! I have some money left over in fanduel sports book since that needs to be blown. I unfortunately am thinking about putting it all on KFB.
Meh
Forecast is not looking awesome tonight.
Dammit, I haven't even looked. Too much looking at the forecast here
It has since cleared up. Turns out, Florida weather is unpredictable! Who knew?!
First Duel pretty calm. Buckle up.
Happy Daytona Day everybody! I'd kill to be down there right now.
I'm having power and internet issues. Lack there if that is. I fixed the power one but I haven't learned how to generate my own internet yet.
Same. Power is back, but internet is down...chomping down on some data on the ol iPad right now.
I'm back up but I couldn't even use the cell network. I guess everyone on it had it jammed up
Annnd now a red flag due to lightening. Looks exactly like it did last year. Sigh. Maybe it stays west of the track.
What a 24 hours it has been. But I have power, internet, and late night racing!
They really are going to run dirt track cup race at Bristol? Also why do they want more road races those are the woorrssttt.
I guess it depends on your point of view. The general consensus for years was that road courses suck, and the reason for that was that there were only two different tracks and these specialist drivers (such as Borris Said) would come out of the would work and dominate them. They were in areas that didn't draw a big NASCAR crowd, and they were hard to watch because you only got to see the cars for a few seconds every 4 minutes.
These days, because IMSA is now owned by NASCAR, they are really able to make these road courses more fun to watch. The new drivers have a more diverse road background, and therefore drivers that can dominate on the ovals are also able to dominate on the road courses. Chase Elliott for example. Also since the introduction of the ROVAL at Charlotte, they have proven how much fun the oval road courses are. They have the advantage of other tracks, as you can see most of the circuit from the stands. They have also really gone leaps and bounds to make these fan immersive experiences. I can attest that watching cars come out of the Bus Stop at Daytona and going into turns 3 and 4 is quite exhilarating.
Circuit of the Americas was added this year, and that should prove to spice it up a bit more. We are still holding out for an event at VIR in the coming years. I personally believe they could do either the truck or Xfinity series there the same weekend the race is at Martinsville. Takes a little heat off the infrastructure at Martinsville but is still close enough for everyone to enjoy.
Having never been to a NASCAR race, would the COTA race be worth attending? It's a great track for F1 and WEC but I don't know if stock cars would even make it through the esses 😅
I've never watched a single race at COTA that I can think of...but yeah, go. If you can't have a good time at a Nascar race there's something wrong with ya. Only "road course" race I've ever been to was the Roval in 2019 and it was great.
We will all find out together hahaha. It's a classic racing track, so should be fun either way? I would go if I had the chance for sure.
Yeah I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I kinda stopped watching after a while because the racing on the "intermediate" tracks had gotten so stale, and even Bristol was getting a bit boring (blasphemy, I know), but tuned in for the first Charlotte Roval race a few years back and it pulled me back in. I still don't really like the racing on most of the intermediate tracks, but the road courses have some of the best action and interesting strategies that I've seen from NASCAR in years. I'm definitely looking forward to the new additions to the schedule.
My god how awesome! What a race. I love seeing small times win the 500! Front Row Motorsports!
Figured it would be a wild finish. I took a slight nap and woke up to watch the 2nd stage and final. Wife bet on the 34 in a race pool due to where she drew a number. I had 11 as an odds favorite and told her to take 34 as he is good on speedways and that new package. Never thought it would happen though. Wild finish and underdog winning is great to me!
talk about the parting of the sea... the 2 one way, the 22 the other, and the 34 right up the middle. LOVE'S it!
Not sure what races Nascar folks are planning on going to this year. I do both Dega races. They just emailed today no tent camping or camper unless it is an RV style all contained. Same thing for upcoming Atlanta race. I'm headed to the dirt track on Bristol and am pumped for it. Haven't had anything saying they are cancelling that camping as of yet.
I was seriously worried that the truck race was never going to end last night.
Anyone watch the Aussie Supercars? I usually try and catch the highlights, but make sure to watch the full races at Mount Panaroma like this weekend... what a crazy track.
Hand up, only thing I know about the v8 supers is Marcus Ambrose and that time Pastrana flipped violently and as mic'd up throughout.
Not really much of a NASCAR guy but I definitely think I will have to watch this one.
Autoweek story on the challenges creating the track.
IMSA News...Paging Midnite Hokie...
Link
VIR's date now conflicts with the Notre Dame game.
Mike Joy is gonna piss his pants saying that in the broadcast.
Ok we are past the boring slump after Daytona and now on to the fun stuff. Really looking forward to watching the Bristol dirt stuff. Wish I could be there.
Drive to Survive season 3 continued the impressive run for the series. Just what I needed to get amped up for the Sunday return of F1.
Welp, rain and dirt don't mix too well. Bahrain looked sexy as hell under the lights, though. Happy to have F1 back tomorrow morning!
Can this finally be the year Mercedes doesn't dominate?... nah, probably not. Don't care though, the major reshuffle of drivers will make things spicy for the midfield.
Well sucked with the rain in Bristol but the F1 race was amazing. So nice to actually have a battle at the front late in the race for once and Max almost pulled it off. It is looking like Red Bull will actually take the fight the Mercedes this year and I definitely hope that is the case as there really has not been a battle for the last 7 years of Mercedes dominance. Ferrari looked improved as well, and that could potentially be a great battle with McLaren for 3rd. The fist race definitely gives me hope for a competitive season.
Barring some wild misfortune, I suspect Red Bull will win at Imola. I think you're right about the level of competition being elevated this year. I think Ferrari, Red Bull, and McLaren have the stuff to really make things exciting and make it less of a Merc show every weekend.
Also shout out to Perez with a heck of a drive (again) from last to 5th. So excited to see some good racing all across the field this year
I have a feeling this is going to get canceled, unfortunately. They were not prepared for this.
🤦♂️
Second highest 48 hour total in recorded history. LOTS of rain. All flowing downhill.
Yes, when Noah built the Ark he did it in the parking lot of a NASCAR race because he knew for sure that if it was going to rain that's where it would start.
Already down to pavement on the "dirt race" in Bristol. Are they going to add more dirt to the track during the race?
That's not pavement my man. They are actually laying down rubber on the dirt. The depth of that dirt where you are thinking it is pavement is around 5 feet.
Welp, I loved that!
I'm hoping at some point they consider doing this at Martinsville. I think the flat corners would make it that much more interesting.
NO! Martinsville was dirt when it was first built. It's gotten better over the years since. Some things do not need to go back to their roots!
Lol as someone who grew up there and whose earliest memories are of that track, I'm ok with them doing it.
I just happen to know a company that would be happy to oblige lol but I think I can promise that will never happen
It won't. However I said that about them adding lights too!
Come on man. As much fun as those grass and clay parking lots are after a big rain, you don't want to move some of that stuff inside the track?
I thought it was pretty awesome as well. Great move on NASCAR's part to already announce next year's Bristol spring race will be on dirt. I think it brought a lot of eyes to NASCAR that don't normally watch, including mine.
Our group had to deal with the rain, change camping spots as they told us our spot would flood (and did), and losing a number of canopies to wind damage I would go back to that dirt race in a heartbeat. Was a ton of fun. Getting back home at 2 a.m after the race Monday and getting straight back to work was rough. Hopefully tv did it justice.
I know its a long shot but looking for 4 tickets to martinesville this weekend. I know the going rate and will to pay around 350 range per ticket if anyone has any connects or anything please shoot me a text.
nine oh four. for 7. six. nine for 7. ate.
thanks
Is anyone partying at Martinsville?
was there for the modifieds on Thursday
watching Friday and Saturday on TV
Two hot dogs down during the pre-race. The jet dryers make for a beautiful tool to cool the food down.
Enjoying my bag of pickled eggs and half gallon of tea. Ready for hotdog insomnia later.
What the heck has happened to Allmendinger?
Broke a shock I think and dragging the front splitter.
Whole lotta rain coming thru. Martinsville races and rain go together like Cornelson and Jet Sweeps.
Noah built the Ark in the parking lot of a NASCAR race
Lol we gonna get this in tonight? Will be 12:30 at least before the track is dry.
Looked so much like Bristol. I have been slowly catching up on sleep and chores since that crazy weekend with the flooding. Spring time races are so dicey with the weather on the east coast. Be a long day with the Masters and racing tomorrow if it all pans out right.
Perfectly summed up. Me and the wife gambled that it would be ran tomorrow and didn't even drive up. As much as I hate it...that's what I'm rooting for.
I think it's going to get started. Track looks good and there is a small window. But they won't get to half way.
Would've killed for a later caution...but that was a good race in my book. Truex has turned into a short track hero. I picked him to win in the finishline (think it's like "jackpot races" app now) and blamo, he delivered. Brad and Kyle Busch had unfortunate days.
Jimmie Johnson did not look too bad in his debut yesterday despite finishing 19th after a late spin almost knocked him out of the race (fortunately he was on a down slope and was able to roll start the car). Looking like the Indycar series is going to be super competitive this year overall.
F1 race in Imola was also a great race. It will be a full on battle for once this year between Hamilton/Verstappen and Mercedes/Rebull.
BOOM. If you're gonna lead a lap all day, best make it the last one!
Note: haaate that for Matty D. Man I wanna see him so bad.
Yeah. Matty D was in literally a no win position there.. Stuart would have been hoping had he been able to pull it off.
The first race I got to see live since 2019 at TMS yesterday got off to a wild start. It was nice to get out to the track though.
BIG fan of the NextGens. Idk if it was the design (or lack thereof) on the Camry, but it didn't quite pop as well as the Camaro and nowhere near as much as the Mustang. My dad had to run by Martinsville Speedway one day a few weeks ago and they were having a very sneaky test and he said they sound badder than hell as well. Can't wait to see them in action.
Gonna comment on this before I forget: what the hell was Redbull's thinking behind their pit strategy late? Obviously, Lewis was on a rampage behind them. Why not pit when you're still 20 laps ahead and give yourself even a 1% chance of catching him? Instead, wait until he inevitably passes you with 5 laps to go (blowing your doors off) then pit?
I think they were hoping that Max was going to be able to hold off Lewis. Once that went by the wayside, Red Bull went for the fastest lap championship point, hence Max going on to the softs even though they weren't the "best" tire today, just the fastest.
Once it went by the wayside, I get the laps gone by, yes. But geeze man, figure that out about 15 laps prior. Give your boy a chance to win. And I still think on relatively fresh tires and a quick stop he may have had a punchers chance.
I'm still newish to this brand of racing...but this strategy was asinine beginning to end to me.
As soon as HAMVERBOT came in to clear view I sort of checked out, but was casually wondering the same. Seemed like after HAM pitted there were quite a few laps where VER still had an open window... maybe they didn't have any new/new-ish tires?
(Side note, I kind of wish they showed a graphic once in a while of which tires a driver had waiting in the wings and how old they were.)
Had to have something, because a lap after he pitted (which was a lap or so after Lew' passed) he was digging into lap times hard, as hard or harder than Hamilton was prior. I do not envy crew chiefs whatsoever...but damn dude lol
Pit loss was about 20 seconds today if I remember correctly, so they had about 3 or 4 laps to pit when Hamilton was like 23 seconds back. I just think Red Bull saw Hamilton not make up a lot of ground during that window and thought Max could hold on. It's happened before them.
Sure, but on fresher tires VER would be faster than HAM, so it's not just a 4 lap window. Even if you give up track position by a second or two on lap 8 after HAM pitted, you'll have fresher tires to chase him down.
Pit time was over 22s. Spain is just super hard to overtake on (As was evident earlier with Ham catching Ver very fast, but not able to pass). Ham pitted when he was less than half a second behind VER. It was too late for RB at that point, even if Ver pits the next lap. Normally Ham would have gained about a second or more just by pitting 1 lap earlier. Ver likely would'nt be able to get back around ham because of the circuit. RB figured they had a better chance of holding a 23s lead with 25 to go than ver being able to pass on the same tires.
Yeah it seems like this is the reason, they figured the best chance was for Max's tires to hold out till the end, which they obviously different. In hindsight I'm sure they would have gone back and just pitted immediately after Lewis did, but I think the strategy at the time was somewhat sound and they they figured they might be able to hold him off given how hard it is to overtake on that track.
The F1 TV Pro subscription is worth it to keep you interested in the race when the main feed TV coverage is as boring as it was yesterday.
There was some good racing at the back end of the midfield that was barely covered on the main feed.
I never had any interest in motor sports, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, but after watching the three seasons of "Drive to Survive" I am hooked on watching F1 now. It's not just me, my dad watches now and we'll chat about the races after they're all wrapped up and it my mom and my wife will make fun of us.
As for Saturday, not sure why RB didn't pit VER after they saw HAM go in. I think there was some hope that with a 23 second lead that they'd be able to hold on until the end of the race, but they had to know that it was just a matter of time until HAM could charge up and catch him with way fresher tires. I would have thought that they could have waited til lap 54-56 and then brought VER in and put a fresh set of softs on and get after HAM.
There's been an interested point made of the fact that RB just hasn't had a consistent 2nd driver like Mercedes does, someone capable of starting in P4/P5 and hanging there the whole race in order to provide cover for VER like BOT does for HAM. Albon had issues last year with consistency and Perez this year has had decent starting positions but then can't improve upon it, whereas BOT may not be as fast as HAM, but he's a solid driver. I don't think there's anyone on the grid that RB could poach though to provide that cover.
The effect that the show has had on interest was very evident at the last race, 2019, which was WAY more crowded than normal on race day. We get there every year for the gates to open to get our spot on the hill right in front of the turn 1 grandstand. 2019 was much worse than usual with people just rolling up and standing right in front of you where you set your chair, and not even giving a shit if you said something to them about it. It pisses me off immensely when people do this as we get up at the crack of dawn to get our spot on the hill and then people just roll up and stand right in front of you at race time, all because they are now interested since Netflix made a great series.
Ok, sorry, rant over. I just had to get that out.
Yea, that's a pretty shit situation and those people are the same ones who'd probably leave the shopping cart in the middle of the parking lot, i.e. completely devoid of any thought about others.
I'm sure this year will be worse though now that even more people have probably been exposed to it. Good luck.
Yeah I'm going to try and just get my buddy to pony up the extra money and try and get a grandstand seat this year. You really only need it for race day, as you pretty much want to just walk around the track the first couple days and get the different viewpoints. It is just so expensive for F1 weekend. Even the hotels and airbnb prices are ridiculous, like 300 a night for Motel 6. We went to the Indycar race there in 2019 and a seat for the weekend at the top of the grandstand on turn 1 was like 150 bucks for the whole weekend. Those seats for F1 are something like 2k+.
Goddamn...I figured it was expensive, but that's a whole other level. Maybe a trip down for the race isn't in the cards then. I bet the Miami tickets will be even more expensive too.
Don't forget the $150 parking!
I haven't been since 2016 even though I live here, just can't justify the cost. F1 fans are (were?) a whole other level of money. I was in the hotdog line between two guys talking about attending the previous race... and the one before, and before. They literally flew around the world following F1.
And here I thought folks who ran the nascar circuit in motorhomes were crazy.
That's the beef I have with Nascar. Love the sport, but F1 pumps this out and gets loadsss more eyes on the sport. Nascar has a Kevin James sitcom. Cool. Nascar had something somewhat similar about 10yrs on showtime (Inside Nascar...same basic concept as Inside the NFL or whatever). Completely unhinged and unedited radio comms showing what drivers, crews, spotters, etc. are actually saying throughout the race and without muzzles on. It was incredible and I miss it. Not really sure where I'm going with this. Just...be cooler. You got a great product, show the people...doesn't always have to be with fart jokes.
Definitely couldn't hurt to try it. That said, I dunno if I could ever get behind Nascar as quickly as I got interested in F1. The whole going around in a circle thing just doesn't seem as exciting as the twists and turns of F1. That said, the F1 races do seem to stretch out rather quickly and it seems like you're watching a number of small races vs. one big race whereas I feel that NASCAR always seems like the pack is pretty damn tight.
That show was awesome. NASCAR's biggest issue is it doesn't know how to market itself. Everyone thinks the driving in a circle thing is boring because the sport's governing body hasn't done anything to dispel the popular myth that the racing is that simple. F1 has natural sex appeal. The cars are objectively cool. The drivers are legitimate celebrities. DTS highlights all of that. Plus, their TV broadcasts are commercial free and you stay plugged into the action for every lap.
NASCAR, on the other hand, has Clint Boyer and Jeff Gordon in bellbottom pants doing color commentary in rural South Carolina while they go to commercial every 15 minutes under green. They've got Bubba Wallace doing a Netflix series, but let's face it, he might be a recognizable public figure after all the PR work NASCAR has done for him over the past 2 years, but he doesn't produce on the track. Hell, the guy has only won 6 truck races in his entire career in equipment everyone on this thread could be competitive in.
It might be boring as hell watching Lewis win Grand Prix after Grand Prix, but at least the folks in charge of marketing F1 have made legit stories out of Max, Valterri, and, to a lesser extent, Checo competing with him thru good broadcasting and DTS. NASCAR just keeps highlighting the same cycle of suck with Bubba because...I don't know. There's so much potential with stock car racing because it feels so much more accessible than F1, but the emphasis on highlighting guys who don't perform is not attracting new fans.
It really is. We heard about it from my wife's sister who watched it and said it was good so on a Friday night we were looking for something to watch and decided to give it a try. That was a bad idea.
DTS did a really good job explaining things in the first season and expanding on them in the following seasons. I was so excited when we finally got a look into Mercedes/Ferrari in season 2 and they didn't disappoint. The cycling through the different teams was incredibly helpful and helped connect me as a viewer to their different positions.
The one thing I didn't realize until I started looking more into F1 (after watching DTS) was how physically intensive it is on the drivers. The G forces that they're constantly exposed to and the force required to activate the brakes throughout the race was mind boggling and made me truly see them as athletes. So far I'm 4 for 4 on watching the races this year.
I used to just watch F1 when I would wake up early and nothing else was on. Now I don't miss a race and I'm getting up on Saturdays to watch qualifying. DTS has made a devoted fan out of a simple redneck stock car guy.
Still haven't gotten to the point of watching practice/qualifying, but I do look up the qualifying results once they're wrapped up. My dad and I have had entire conversations re: F1 since Imola and before this year neither of us had even put that letter & number together in a sentence. My mom thinks it's ridiculous and my wife just rolls here eyes.
F1 does a really good highlight video for each practice and qualifying on their YouTube channel; usually 2-3 minutes for practice and 5 for qualy. Crashes and stuff don't show up on the results board, and they can have a big impact on performance or penalties come Sunday, so I always watch the videos.
I haven't bothered with the practice vids, but have watched the qualifying.
Learned that when LeClerc crashed right at the end of Q3 yesterday. They were talking about it during the race as well, because Verstappen was on a tear going for the pole that lap, and the red flag shut his lap down. Verstappen getting pole wouldn't have made a difference once LeClerc was out, but obvoiusly LeClerc being in the race would've been huge.
I don't think I realized that until I read your comment. But looking back, holy cow, that's a huge difference!
The first thing NASCAR needs to do is force all vehicles to meet the exact dimensions of their standard stock body. And when I say stock, I really do mean what you can find in a dealership.
This isn't Indycar, this isn't F1, this is supposed to be stock car racing. I want the cars that are out on the track to at least look like something they brought in from a dealership that morning. I really hate that the sport has evolved to everyone using the same shell, just with different stickers to designate automake.
And if that means that we get more homologation in the consumer market, that's a win for everyone. Especially if that means that automakers need to actually spend some more time innovating their consumer products.
I also wouldn't mind more tracks that aren't oval. I'm not saying get rid of them, no not by any means, but these drivers have a ton of skill, and the season needs to better show off the full skillset in ability to absolutely nail an overtake in a corner. You look at some old British Touring Car videos from past races, and NASCAR could absolutely be that here in the US. And it would be huge if they added that avenue.
But that's just my opinion. I like the sport, but I do think it needs some big changes to regain the foothold it once had
Automakers are innovating their consumer products, just not in ways that improve the performance metrics of NASCAR.
Innovation is creature comforts like heated steering wheels and driver assist systems and also electrified powertrains, none of which do anything for NASCAR.
Same here. Watched all three seasons over the past few weeks, and then watched Monaco qualifying and race this weekend. I get what people are saying about that track. Other than the historical significance, it's pretty boring. Very little passing (if any at all), and an almost wire-to-wire victory for Verstappen. Sucks for LeClerc, though. Was hoping to see Checo get the podium over Norris, but passing just ain't a thing at that track.
Was really fun to watch, though. I think I can get into F1.
The first portion of the race was a little stale, especially after Max got in front of Bottas at the start and shut him down. But once you got to lap 28 and the cars started pitting it got a whole lot more exciting. I was standing and shouting at the TV when Bottas came in for his pit and the nut wouldn't come off. Same thing for Checo when he managed the overcut on Gasly/Vettel/Hamilton.
I'm really rooting for Norris. Hopefully Daniel can get dialed in on the McLaren as I'm sure getting lapped by your younger and greener teammate has got to feel like shit.
Bottas' pit was an exciting moment. I feel for the guy, but not really, because he's been behind the wheel of a truly dominant car for how long now?
I'll admit, I have to keep a wiki page open (for now) with the teams and drivers, so I can reference it for the commentators' one-off comments. Eventually I'll have all that down.
It's really hard playing second fiddle to Hamilton. Whether Mercedes publicly acknowledges it or not, Bottas is the #2 driver and the focus goes to Hamilton. In his 5 years with Merc he's finished 2nd twice, 3rd, 4th, & 5th. The 5th place finish was behind Lewis, Vettel, Kimi, & Max. Williams before that was a 4th, 5th, & 8th place finish. He's no slouch in the drivers seat, but he's just not as good as Lewis and there's nothing wrong with that. Lewis is in the running for if not straight up the GOAT.
In only his 2nd season of F1, George Russell smoked Bottas without a seat fit, wearing too-small shoes, with one day of practice. Bottas is second fiddle because Bottas isn't a top tier driver.
Agree with this. I think Russell will be in his seat next year. Bottas is a good driver but he has had enough time at the top time to prove himself and has failed to do so. Nico Rosberg won the title opposite Hamilton before retiring, and overall was much more competitive when they were teammates.
Potentially unpopular take incoming:
I dislike Monaco. Given the opportunity to go to the race, I absolutely would in a heartbeat. But kiiinda boring.
Not that crazy of a take. Its basically impossible to overtake. Was surprised to see no safety cars or yellows this year. It does make a super exciting qualifying though, plus one of the few tracks the overcut can actually work.
I think most F1 fans agree that Monaco is incredibly boring, but know that due to the history it will never be removed from the calendar. The track just can't handle modern cars.
However, today was one of the most interesting Monaco races in a while and I really enjoyed it. The double title fight, the Bottas drama, Vettel/Gasly/Hamilton fighting, Hamilton thusly complaining, and seeing a podium that feels like the future of F1... love it.
Too big of a car...that makes sense.
Yeah, Monaco was great 50 years ago when the cars were little more than an engine on wheels. But nowadays the circuit is just way too narrow for the cars they run.
Wow - I didn't realize the difference was this drastic. You can almost fit the entire 1970 car inside the wheelbase of todays cars. That definitely eats up ground when trying to find room to pass. Especially if they are going almost twice as fast around the course.
And its not just a problem at Monaco. F1 has a real problem with lack of overtaking in any race to where the only real place that positions change are through pit stops and restarts. Outside of that, the order of finish is largely determined in qualifying.
But that said, all those usual issues are just amplified to the max at Monaco where the track itself is incredibly narrow and the turns are sharp and slow. Impossible to pass when there is literally not enough room to go 2 wide in most, if not all corners.
*Crosses fingers than 2022 aero rules bring back overtakes*
Not just size, but speed, too. Hard to overtake on a straight when it takes 2 seconds to drive the entire thing...
I really enjoyed watching Monaco this year...my first time doing so.
While the race itself may not have been as exciting, the overall team strategy that goes into the race is FASCINATING. I feel that I learned a lot watching this race.
Monaco makes up for its lack of overtaking with scenery and absurd speed in tight spaces. Those halo cam shots make me anxious and I'm just sitting on my couch drinking coffee. Smaller cars for more overtaking would be fun to see, I just don't think the sport is trending in that direction.
Be interesting to see if they get to the point where they do some sort of 'restrictor plate' or power limitation to create action for this race only.
I don't even know if that would help. I don't think it's the power disparity as much as it's the circuit itself doesn't allow for overtaking. Every potential overtaking area on the track is surrounded by bumpy/dangerous terrain, barriers, or run-offs that put drivers outside of track limits and force them to give the spot back. The cars have simply outgrown the circuit. It's still entertaining to me because I like watching things on 4 wheels go fast, but normal people like to see actual competition.
I am very ready for the 600. That's all.
...and I am very ready for the 500. Wish I was attending and probably will next year but could not make it happen this year. Went to each race from 2016-2019 and I think any racing fan should try to attend once, there is nothing like the Indy 500.
I wouldn't mind myself being there very much.
Missed on all of my Indy bets. Missed on my Nats bets. Kyle Larson came to the rescue, but damn I was holding my breath for a while.
Hendrick has been almost unstoppable lately. Wife fell asleep watching it but I stayed up for it all. How was the experience for the 600? I went to the first Roval and liked the camping and all pretty well.
Yep, taking a couple years "off" to give the young bucks time to mature a little is paying major dividends right now. I've only been to the 600 once (2006) and it was incredible from start to finish. Watching that race on youtube compared to now is night and day in the looks of the cars, (style of) speeds, and crowd. There was probably 150-160k people there back then.
Yep, seeing the differences in cars and crowds makes me nostalgic some days. I don't mind trying to advance things, but I'm not sure if it can move the numbers back to the old environments.
And like you said, Hendrick seemed to pull the right cards giving the young one's time to learn. I'm wondering if Stewart Haas got it right with their young guys. Reddick seems to be an upcoming star for RCR right now.
Excited for the F1 race at Baku this week, especially after it was canceled last year! Fun track, and dare I say it feels we are due for a safety car this race.
Holy smokes what a race. Shoutout F1 for going with a Nascar OT
Absolutely amazing race. Props to RedBull for suggesting the red flag restart instead of hoping to just win under the safety car, their sportsmanship was nicely rewarded.
Or maybe that was their 4D chess plan?
I think it was a combination of genuine concern over tire failures and concern over having to retire checo's car.
I also think there's some "ball don't lie" in the fact that Lewis didn't score points after Max went out like that. He was in command all race
There must have been serious tire wear concern to red flag and then restart that late. But what a race! What a finish! I'll stop there in case people have dvr'd it. But you couldn't write a script like that
The implications for all championship races had such monumental swings there at the end. What an incredible finish
This has been the most eventful Sonoma race I have ever watched. Just waiting for someone to go full Tony Stewart and back up on a tire barrier.
Wow...what a race yesterday. So many ups and downs from the Stroll crash, the restart where Max & Perez managed to get away and avoid the HAM tow, the VER crash, the red flag, the crazy restart into Turn 1 and then the kids fighting for 3/4/5. Checo definitely deserved the win and while Vettel drove a monster race, I voted for Perez in DotD as I'm sure he was on edge all race trying to hold HAM of after he snagged the overcut on him.
That said, what a shitshow on the Pirelli side. Blaming debris for Stroll's crash would be one thing, but two failures, exact same tire, exact same way, roughly same part of their "lifespan", that's not really a coincidence. I'm sure everyone is waiting to see what the outcome of the investigation will be.
The Pirelli guys are definitely sweating after two tire failures in this race on the same tire (rear left). Not a good look for the compound choices this weekend. Reminds of when Vettel's tire just exploded going down the main straight in Austria in 2016.
Both drivers are extremely lucky that the cars smacked the walls and skidded to dissipate the energy vs. going airborne. Max is lucky that the car went right instead of left.
You really gotta feel bad for Max after he drove such a great race. Luckily Hamilton hit the wrong button and the standings didn't change one way or the other besides the constructors.
Spent Saturday night at the "Madhouse", Bowman Gray Stadium in Winston-Salem. Seven hundred horsepower modifieds on a 1/4 mile flat track is quite a show. (the track is around the football field of Winston-Salem State University). They've been running pretty much every Saturday night, April - August, since 1949! Events at Bowman Gray Stadium have been described as part racing, part religion, and part wrestling. If you ever get the opportunity to go, I would highly encourage you to do so! Twelve bucks gets you in to one of NASCAR's most legendary venues.
Way to go Checo, on another podium finish at the France Grand Prix. He seems to have gotten the hang of the driving style the Red Bull car takes, and his ability to save tires really matches well with Verstappen, allowing Red Bull to take multiple strategies in the race. He's rapidly becoming my favorite driver in the field, and it's good to see him thrive.
It's amazing what having a 2nd driver who can pull off an alternate strategy does to the points standings. Checo doesn't have to match Verstappen's speed or aggression—like Albon and Gasly tried to do—he can confidently do his own thing at a high level and contribute immensely to the team. I love the new dynamic at RB.
Also, seeing a team with a good pairing makes me sad that Sainz left McLaren for Ferrari. I think McLaren could genuinely be pressuring Mercedes if he had stayed, seeing as he outpaced Norris for points last season.
Yeah I think Sainz might have had a little buyers remorse after that huge fall off from Ferrari after they got caught with some alleged illegality of their power unit, which is super frustrating we don't get the details on, because "Ferrari". I think he made the move before the season even started last year, which was way late due to COVID, so he did not see how bad the car was. (I believe this was noted in the most recent drive to survive season)
That being the case most drivers would jump at the chance to drive for Ferrari, because they are still the crown jewel of the sport. They still have special veto powers in the F1 contract, which I know irks the rest of the teams for sure, but they always threaten to leave F1 if they don't get their way. Personally, I think F1 should call that bluff.
I know that 2022 regulations are supposed to even the playing field a bit, but I am not holding my breath.
Nah, Sainz left for Ferrari after they fell off a cliff. He knew what he was getting into, but the opportunity to drive for Ferrari is worth it to pretty much all the drivers.
Great race to watch and I'm looking forward to Austria. Perez is driving great for Red Bull and I look forward to seeing how he does as the season continues. I'm also glad to see Ricciardo finally getting the hang of the McLaren and Norris driving continues to impress. Not sure what happened to him the first 1/3 of the race because it was almost as if he was driving a different car for the last 2/3s. I really wish that Sainz had stuck with McLaren and the bromance had continued.
McLaren had a massive aero update for the French GP, could explain why it took a bit for Norris to get the feel for it, especially with a heavier fuel load.
He also just lost some spots on the first lap, but settled around 9th. Once he extended his first stint, when he finally did pit, he came out pretty far back since everyone undercut him. Then he just had fresher tires the rest of the way. Was just the better strategy.
Perez is quickly becoming one of my favorite drivers out there. Just a guy who's put in good work over his entire career, always willing to do the right thing for the team regardless of what team he was on. Was so happy for him last year when he won and now seeing him excel at Red Bull is really nice to see.
He and Verstappen seem like an absolute excellent pair. Perez was great at BWT but with the superior vehicle at Red Bull he's really got an opportunity to really shine.
Agreed. I'm actively rooting for Norris (why him I have no idea) but I'm really happy when Checo does well.
Norris has been one of the most accessible drivers I can remember. He has an agreement with Quadrant that has him taking part in random GT Sport and Forza sessions and posting them on YouTube. Made me really appreciate him as a person and not just a F1 driver.
Y'all F1 nerds done hijacked the NASCAR thread. But Jeff Gordon is leaving Fox to go be Vice Chairman of Hendrick while he waits for Rick to retire. This was not unexpected but sad to only get Gordon and Bowyer in the booth for one year.
More action in F1 than nascar recently ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lol I was being sarcastic. I like F1 too I just can't really tell you much about it, nor have I been around to watch any recently.
Haha no worries! My reply was tongue in cheek for sure too
Maybe Gordon hated him like the early (and great) commercials suggested lol
And someone needs to step up and stop Hendrick right now. They're on fire.
Watching F1 qualifying this morning, and I have a question: Does everybody automatically get DRS in qualifying, versus having to be within 1 sec of a competitor during the race?
Edit: Aaaaaand of course, they just answered it. You don't have to be within 1 sec of a competitor for DRS during qualifying.
Red Bull looking good again in practice, so hopefully Checo can come up with a good starting position for tomorrow.
You answered yourself, but yea, DRS is open to one and all during qualifying.
I thought that Riciardo would be more on the money after last week's race but not making it into Q3 is disappointing.
In the early years of DRS (2011 - 2012) they allowed you to open it anywhere on the lap during qualifying. It was insane watching the flap open on the Red Bull before they had the car pointed straight.
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ekpY4Qsi5k
1. Never realized that, or maybe I just forgot.
2. Crazy how often they opened DRS for the tiniest little straight
3. He kept it open through 130R 😳
Wowwww. What a way for Kyle Larson's streak to end. Ready for tomorrow!
Crazy finish! That was a fun race. I like the shorter distance.
For sure. 400-500 miles at Pocono is a marathon of marathons. 300-ish miles back to back days is pretty cool, to me at least.
Good Lord, Verstappen is dominant this year. Is there anybody other than Hamilton that can compete this year?
I get the feeling that the only driver that can beat Verstappen this year is Verstappen.
Looks like it'll be a HAM/VER duel this year with everyone else fighting it out behind them. I think RB has finally gotten their car where it needs to be and a 2nd driver who's capable of challenging Merc and keeping them on their toes.
I'm glad to see Mercedes finally looking vulnerable. Its nice to tune into the races every weekend not really sure of who is going to win, which is a nice change from basically the past decade. I hope the new regulations and body next year helps bring RB and Merc back to the pack and helps lift up the others to make it a little more chaotic over the course of the year. So far, this has been one of the more intriguing seasons that F1 has had in a while.
Thoughts: Max Verstappen is on fire. Joeay Chesnut is the most dominant athlete on planet Earth. If anyone not named Chase or Kyle wins at Road America today, I'll be surprised...hoping Brad reps the midwest hard today.
Max with the RB setup is unstoppable. 30+ second win?
The penalty to Lando when Perez went wide was ridiculous. Literally cost him 2nd place. That kid can drive the wheel nuts off a car, he was seriously quick given he was in a McLaren.
Indeed, that penalty was ludicrous. No contact made, Perez tried to go around the outside and ended up in the gravel and yet it's somehow Lando's fault?! Feel bad for the kid because he drove an absolutely brilliant race. On the same note, the two 5 second penalties for Perez for LeClerc were also a bit ludicrous in my eyes. If a driver tries to overtake by going around the outside and the inside driver defends then they shouldn't be penalized. The onus should be on the overtaking driver.
Another great race by Max and RB has got that car in the perfect position. Glad to see them giving it to Mercedes and it's interesting to see HAM on the outside looking in. I'm sure it's an unusual feeling for him as well.
If you want to get into which were more egregious, I think the penalties to Perez were probably legit. Lando just stayed on the racing line, he would have had to back off racing pace to not have Perez go off, but if you're going to force that, why even bother racing? Perez, on the other hand, actively pushed Leclerc off the track both times. It was off the racing line, he could have given room with pace and still been ok.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/nascar-docuseries-ordered-usa-network-180029323.html
Well, kinda getting my wish. God I hope it's good.
Produced in-house by NASCAR? On USA Network, the one known for the worst reality TV shows?
This is gonna be awful.
Edit: Bonus points, it's the same production team that worked on the already-cancelled Kevin James NASCAR office comedy, "The Crew". Yikes.
😔
I dunno man...USA...non-scripted...I feel like it's gonna be bad.
Here's to hoping though! What they should do is bribe the crew that's doing DTS or at least copy the format verbatim.
USA made Psych, and that was pleasant...I'll settle for pleasant lol
Just read on Reddit that another rule change for 2022 is that F1 is getting rid of the Q2 tire limitation so drivers who make it to Q3 won't be required to start on those tires. Gonna be interesting to see what this does to the overall strategy.
My guess: Everybody qualifies on softs, starts the race on hards. Racers like Perez that can conserve tires will really benefit from this.
Won't matter when we switch to sprint races 🤞
I don't really read F1 news...are there rumors of going to shorter race lengths?
No, same race lengths (300km). But instead of qualifying, they're doing a 100km sprint race on Saturday to determine starting order for Sunday's race. Same as Formula 2, I believe. First test is next weekend at the British Grand Prix.
So I just read up on this. All going to Sprint qualy does is move qualifying to Friday and having a small race on Saturday in preparation for the real race on Sunday. Am I reading that right?
If so, that just seems stupid to me.
No. The sprint race is qualifying, now. Wherever you end in the sprint race is where you start on the grid for Sunday.
Here's a good explainer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN-eoC3iTPc
Uh...yes. You have a full qualifying like F1 currently runs but it replaces FP2 on Friday. Then on Saturday there is a mini-"race" based on the results of Friday's qualy, then the real race based on the results of the Saturday sprint.
What they done is setup a qualifying to qualify...just like "standby to standby". Call it what you want but the Sprint is just a mini race that sets up for the real race.
I stand by my statement and still think it's stupid.
I guess your wording confused me. "In preparation for" sounds like you thought the sprint was practice, not the session that sets the starting grid.
No worries, I just reread it myself and can see where the confusion came from.
Interested to hear thoughts on the new F1 sprint quali? I feel like now you can take the first qualifying less seriously and just prioritize race pace. Also don't love the points aspect tbh
If Alonso hadn't scorched everyone at the start, that would have been a very boring sprint. Maybe in 2022, when the cars can follow more closely, this will be more interesting (though the same can be said about the past 5 years of F1 in general).
Final verdict... sort of boring, but how can I be mad at 17 more laps of racing?
A couple of interesting moments to be sure, especially with Perez going for a spin and having to limp it in. Those who tried to use softs for an advantage didn't have one and it was basically a procession from start to finish. Alonso had a nice start but McLaren was easily able to overtake him with the better car.
Holyyyy shit. That was a hard, hard lick.
Hamilton just flat took him out. Yeesh that was dangerous
Took that last corner pretty wide in the same vein that got Lando and Perez penalized in Austria
10 second penalty for Hamilton, pretty much does him in for the win.
Right now it looks like the win could be down to Leclerc, Norris, and Bottas. Crazy stuff
That penalty was a cop-out. If he is responsible, he should get a position penalty at the end of the race. If he isn't, then nothing should have happened. Time penalties are really only penalties for people in the middle of the pack where it actually costs you a handful of spots.
It was certainly a lucky sequence of events for Hamilton. I don't think anyone could have planned things better. His competitor crashes out and gets no points. The crash is bad enough to require a red flag allowing Hamilton to change tires and make repairs without losing time.
Yea, the penalty was definitely a bunch of BS. 10 second slap on the wrist for a 50pt swing in the points? WORTH IT!!!
This aged poorly. ;^)
That kind of hit gave Dale Jr numerous concussions...if he's genuinely ready to go in a couple weeks, I'd be pretty surprised.
Cant beat him, wreck him!
He was never gonna make the corner on that line, much less not take out Max. Add the second least harsh penalty for turning a driver like that, it's basically a slap on the wrist.
But British driver in British race. I would love to see Red Bull return the favor next race.
British driver, British race being largely broadcast on a British news network.
I flipped over to the F1 postrace on YouTube after the game and Alex Albon hit on what you said. If the penalty for taking out your championship rival is 10 seconds, then there will be another incident later this year and it will be far more blatant than it was today.
I think the most damning thing is that Hamilton pulled the same move on Leclerc late in the race at the same spot and even though he actually held his line, it still forced Leclerc over the kerb likely breaking something, which is why he fell back 6 seconds in 2 laps. In the end, it really did ruin any real drama in the race for the fans, except for the ones in attendance, which from the broadcast seem to be the only ones who actually matter.
Yea, I'm sure we're gonna see a bigger dustup down the road.
As for the Leclerc overtake, I was about to write that I don't think that HAM caused the problem, but going back and watching the highlights and slowing it down it didn't look like HAM gave Leclerc any option but to run off the track. It seemed like LEC braked later and was in the lead going into the corner but HAM just pushed him to the outside.
That said, Leclerc's Ferrari was really struggling at the end of the race. HAM was able to easily catch up while having tires that were 2 laps older. I'm genuinely surprised especially with how Leclerc was able to hold the lead in the beginning of the race.
What a disappointing weekend for the sport. The ease with which you can take out your championship rival, the inconsistency between penalties and "let them race" (last race's stewards would have thrown Hamilton into an active volcano for today's crash), the fact that a 10 second penalty doesn't preclude a driver from winning, an overall boring race up and down the grid, and what is quite possibly the turning point for Hamilton and Mercedes to yet again win the championships.
Praying for a double-DNF for Mercedes sometime soon...
Yep. A very chickenshit move, in my opinion. Sure, Max may have went on the dominate that race had that not happened. But if that's what it takes to get that dub, then to hell with it.
I agree with you 100%. That was Max's corner and Lewis was miles away from hitting the apex on the line he ran. He deserved significantly more than the 10 seconds he received. However, Toto would like to send you an email to explain just how shit your opinion is.
Hot take alert: I think this incident highlights how Lewis might not be the driver everyone thinks he is. Either he dumped Max on purpose because he's reckless or he's overrated and desperate and he can't race in close quarters. Since he was dragging in the world championship standings and watching Max run away with it, I'm leaning toward the latter. This year has been quite telling re: Lewis' talent level when he's no longer the only man on the track whose racecar runs like a rocket ship.
I think Lewis was awesome early on when he had to go out and earn his titles. But he's had basically 10 years of getting used to being the #1 driver on a team with the budget that dwarfs everyone else on the circuit to the point where the only competition for the title was between him and Rosberg or Bottas. Now that RedBull has a package that is every bit as good as Merc, we're seeing that he isn't what everyone thinks he currently is. He absolutely botched it in Baku when he couldn't beat Perez to the corner and faced with losing the first lap of Silverstone to Max, punted him at 180mph into the wall. A guy of his skill and experience knew exactly what was going to happen to Max when he did that, and to be quite honest, I'm not really ok with him parading around like he did after the race after watching him actively take out Max like he did.
10 seconds was not enough. I'm not sure I go so far as to say that he should be suspended for a race or two, but I wouldn't argue it if they did. Max is lucky to not be seriously injured or dead given how hard he went into that wall. And its all on Hamilton. I get it that you want to encourage racing, but I don't want to see racing that leads to drivers getting deliberately punted off the track on some of the fastest turns on the circuit.
51G crash. Fifty-one. That's absurd and he was able to walk away. Kudos to FIA and the engineers for building the safest cars in the world. It is inexcusable to allow Lewis to keep those points from that race. If he's as good as F1 likes to market him to be, he should be able to win the world championship on talent.
This crash is going to hurt Max going into Hungary. Guy will be forced to start amongst the trash since there's no conceivable way the power unit and gearbox are salvageable in that car and the grid penalties for replacing both are draconian. And all Lewis has to show for it is a 10 second penalty in a GP he won that he otherwise would've DNF'd had they not red flagged it after that incident and allowed him to repair his car.
And then this morning Mercedes admits that if not for the red flag and the ability to repair the car from an accident he caused, they would have DNF'd
Mercedes: British GP red flag saved Hamilton from retirement
Which I'm sure will not piss off RedBull any more than they currently are.
NASCAR has it right here - you shouldn't be able to touch the car under red flag.
Unless you play by your own rules. I remember watching this live, even as a kid my jaw was on the floor lol
I agree that should be the rule for a car/driver causing a collision. The receiver though should be allowed to touch their car. If there's no touchy touchy at all the driver getting hit will get shafted again by having to pit after the race resumes.
Good point about Hungary. Makes it all the more egregious that you get 10 seconds for a ~50 point championship swing.
Also, can we all point out how awful the fans were, actively cheering the crash? Between this and Euro Cup, I think Britain is now the most hated country in sports.
Weird that every time someone tries to pass Hamilton on the outside, he goes into the corner too hot and takes them out. Racing incidents I guess.
That first turn yesterday was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my short period being a fan of F1. What the hell was Bottas thinking? And I'm sure that Mercedes would take a 5 position penalty for taking out both Red Bull drivers every single week.
Grats to Ocon for his first win and Vettel/AR for another podium.
Yeah he definitely did not get on the brakes fast enough on that one.
Another crazy thing was when everyone pitted for slicks on the restart and Lewis was the only one that didn't since he was out in first. It cost him the race win really, but it was pretty impressive that he got all the way back to third (and eventually got 2nd place after Vettel's bullshit DQ)
WHAAAAAA?!?
So I went looking and found this: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.breaking-vettel-loses-second-...
That is more than a little horseshit. His car ran out of gas, of course they're not going to be able to pull a liter of fuel. Alfa Romeo is appealing, and I hope they win the appeal.
But the teams know they're required to have at least 1 liter of fuel left in the car, so that a sample can be taken to ensure there's no funny business. If they burned through it, then they broke the rules, and should be DQ'd.
However, in this case, it sounds like the fuel is in the car... just not where it's supposed to be, so Aston Martin is appealing with the hope to help the FIA find the missing fuel (Vettel's car is impounded in the meantime).
And I'll admit, as I'm gravitating towards rooting for Red Bull, I was thoroughly amused at seeing Hamilton alone not going into the pits on the restart. Impressive race, to be sure, after that, but it's not often that you see Hamilton/Wolff make a tactical error like that. His undercut to pass Verstappen and Riccardo was a great move, and ultimately what got Hamilton onto the podium, I think.
FIA doing everything in their power to help Merc. Per usual.
Pretty excited for the IndyCar Nashville race this weekend. This is the first road race for the series in Nashville and for those of you who are new F1 fans that are missing out on open wheel racing during the summer break you should definitely check this one out.
Race will be on NBCSN at 5:30 ET on Sunday.
Holy cow that looks badass. What's the length?
2.17 miles
Race will be 80 laps, 173.6 miles
Ugh, this looks just like what the Miami F1 race was supposed to be; around the arena, down the bridge over Biscayne Bay and back. Now we get a literal race around a parking lot.
I'll have to watch this just to see what could've been, had it not been for the NIMBY crowd down there.
Nascar returns this weekend at Watkins Glen. Sooo excited. Pound for pound maybe the best track on the circuit.
MJ in the house 👀👀👀
Cup race: good.
Indy race: Monoco tight with "rubbin is racin" rules
Yeah the NASCAR race was good, the Glenn is a classic track and it was fun to watch.
The Indy race definitely had a ton of cautions, almost did not get the race finished in daylight. I feel for Herta, he was the best all weekend by has much as a half second a lap, just was pushing a little too hard at the end for the win, and ended up giving away a podium.
For IndyCar, I think if they moved the line onto the bridge, we could've avoided a lot of those restart issues and it would've been a much cleaner, more interesting race. Otherwise it looked like a fun track.
There's an article on formula1.com regarding the stewards' review of Vettel's disqualification due to insufficient fuel at the end of the race. But the last paragraph makes it sounds like there's still a formal appeal ongoing.
Any idea on the timeline of a full appeal? How long do these kinds of appeals usually take?
So, this little investigation was a "review", which sounds like it's handled by F1/stewards. I assume this is a simpler, quicker solution than an "appeal" to the FIA, which is what Aston Martin is now pursuing? Which is interesting, especially since Aston Martin said during the review that they agree there was less than 1L of fuel left in the car. Not sure what you stand to gain if you just admitted you broke the rules.
Because this is going to the FIA, and it's a full appeal with all the requisite investigations, it might take months before the case is even heard. I think after that, the FIA has 30 days to rule.
I think the appeal is probably centered on the idea that the lack of fuel in the car was due to a faulty part (fuel pump), and not intentional. That would make the punishment far outweigh the crime.
Aston Martin dropped the appeal.
Holy carnage. That poor curb couldn't last another 4 laps. Lap prior with Kyle Busch going Dukes of Hazzard thru there had me laughing then seeing Logano destroyyy that tire barrier...whew. Roller coaster of emotion
So are we at 30 minutes waiting for this restart?
That's bullshit. Absolute bullshit. No fucking way that should be allowed to happen.
What happened?
Final restart at Indy, Denny 1, Chase Briscoe 2, first turn Briscoe went wayyy off track (did denny force? Not necessarily...hard racing). Briscoe comes out in front after bouncing thru the grass, there's a stop and go penalty for that. Denny passes him back cleanly a turn or two later, Briscoe almost immediately turned him, took the fake pass thru at the end of circuit, Allmendinger took the lead and won.
How the hell they can't get word to Briscoe that he has the penalty is beyond me. I am not a Hamlin fan...at all. But damn.
crazy story ahead of the race at Spa
LINK
Read about that over the weekend. Yeesh, that's crazy.
They found out about it because she was supposed to be at the track for a race over the weekend and never showed, so they had someone check out the house to see what was going on and.... yup.
Also saw that the Japanese GP just got canceled this morning. Sounds like COTA could double-host, which would be interesting. And I also read that Yas Marina is redesigning the course for the end of the year race.
Also read that the Miami GP has been scheduled for May next year. I might have to consider heading down for that one.
Not too surprising about the Japan GP, that was expected. I'm curious how the double header in Austin would work. I have gone down for that one the last 5 races there. Might have to see what the tickets for a second race would look like. We usually make a weekend out of it but is it so expensive with regards to lodging. Might just have to get a race ticket and get up early and go down for the day (its about a 3hr drive from Dallas so it is doable).
Also curious about that Miami race. It might be a tad cost prohibitive for me, but if not I definitely want to go.
Figure stay in Ft Lauderdale or West Palm and then head over to Hard Rock for the race. As long as tickets themselves aren't stupidly expensive, you can probably make it work while still being able to enjoy Miami.
I was planning on putting the house on Austin Dillon next Saturday at Daytona. If he wins today, gonna shift and split that between Matty D and Denny. Dillon is very good at very fast tracks when he can just hammer down.
That was awesome lol good for Blaney
Shades of an old Michigan race, which is nice to see again.
Wish they'd do away with this downforce package so those runs at the leader wouldn't stall out. It was an entertaining race, but I hate watching a guy get a good run on the leader and then not be able to complete the pass because he doesn't have help and his spoiler is 4 miles up in the air dragging him backwards
It's a damned if you do/don't situation I'm afraid. This package lends itself to guys actually being able to stay within sniffing distance of each other, but makes those massive runs kind of go away. Idk where I land on it. I wish they could've figured out how to make this kind of aero work with the old HP (they've lost nearly 30mph on the straights, but gained like 20 in the corners...I know 190mph is still hauling an insane amount of ass, but still).
I know Dale Jr is all for taking every ounce of downforce away and get the cars off the ground. It'd certainly make the drivers work harder, but I imagine it'd make the tight racing go away to a degree as well. I'd like to see the cars not glued to the track, but I also don't wanna see someone get an ounce of clean air up front and sail off.
Tldr/this guy is rambling; I don't get paid the big bucks for a reason. I'm enjoying the sport a whole hell of a lot right now lol
Jr. is team valance and no spoiler with a bunch of drag in the front end of the car. I'm interested in what that would look like. I just don't like how easy they've made the cup cars to drive. These are the best stock car drivers in the world and they're running wide open lap after lap on these intermediate tracks without lifting.
That being said, I agree. I'm having fun watching every weekend, I just think we could do better.
Bingo. I always go back to 2011-12 Charlotte. We were there for the Allstar race and they were hitting 205 going into 1. Now it's barely 180 and same as not having to lift at all. I'm not saying it's easy by any means, but damn, lifting going into a corner with that amount of air on a car is terrifying to think about.
But then again, they've made intermediates bearable to watch...I just want a happy medium.
F1 absolutely should have red flagged Q3 at the start. Lots of rain and eau rouge in the wet is so dangerous, as seen by the W series. With that much water it was always going to end in tears
They saw Nascar nut up and run COTA in a hurricane and wanted to one up em lol
Don't worry, Vettel is on it. Apparently he went to meet with the Race Director right after qualy ended, and based on his car radio / press comments, I'm sure it was... interesting.
George Russel just put a Wiliams on the front row in Spa
Holy shit
Feel sorry for Lando getting absolutely demolished by that crash. Hopefully McLaren can put the car back together in time for tomorrow's race.
Great result by Russel, but not looking forward to all the fanboys coming out of the woodwork to talk shit about Bottas.
I'm not a Russell fanboy... can I talk shit about Bottas anyway? :)
Y'all turn off that F1 and watch this Daytona double header.
This will actually be the first race Ive sat and watched since June. Summer has been weird.
What a finish to the Xfinity race...now gotta figure out the hell to do for the next 5.5hrs.
Not really going out on a limb, but there's going to be a bad crash tonight. When they get out of the single file it's so damn aggressive. 15 guys going for that last spot...I'm here for it, but I'm full clinch mode right now.
I literally jumped out of my seat when Matty D made that initial move to the top. Then had Denny (known supporter) pushing him. Then threw my hat to the ground in disgust. Man I want that dude to win so bad. Still have money on Dillon...come on, do it for paw paw.
That crossover move he had with like 3 to go going into turn 1 was so smooth. Bummed he couldn't finish it off
Wait they really don't redo the restart again for the final race before the playoffs start?
Once the white flag is thrown the next flag ends it
Just thought since that flag determines the playoffs and regular season champion they might have different rules.
They used to have unlimited attempts and had to stop after a race like that last night. Would have been there all night.
Also that was some elite Daytona racing yesterday. Super jealous I wasn't there. That race was very much wanted to be won by at least 10 different people. Loved seeing the lead changes. Damn good race.
Carnage. Daytona and Talladega get compared to each other far too often. Three wide at Dega is almost comfortable...trying to push it to three wide late at Daytona simply doesn't work. Daytona has such a narrow racing surface it's almost stupid.
That said, good show. Ready to see how the points shook out after that.
F1 using their heads right now
Sucks for Checo, as he qualified seventh but crashed in the shitty conditions pre-start. Wish they'd used their heads sooner.
This run 2 laps behind the safety car and call it a day was BS. They should've pushed it to Monday. It was even a holiday in Belgium.
Yeah I don't understand how they don't have any better contingency plans in place. Sort of a slap in the face of the folks who sat around all morning waiting for the race and certainly the fans in attendance at Spa. Run two pace laps and call it a race...smh.
Yeah the 2 laps behind the safety car was straight bullshit. Try again tomorrow and if no dice, then call it.
The next grand prix, while next weekend, is close enough the logistically could have tried tomorrow. I feel robbed of a Spa race 😡
Kyle Busch looking to take out both cones and people.
Yeahhh...that's one I'm sure he'd like to have back.
I mean I know he is upset as most would be. But that behavior is totally unacceptable. Hopefully both Gibbs and NASCAR will cool his jets for him some.
Full disclosure. I have never been a fan of Kyle. So maybe I am biased against the guy.
If safer barriers weren't a thing william byron may be going to the hospital
I ❤️ Darlington.
That was a helluva effort by Mercedes to screw things up. The HAM out stop for mediums, bringing in Bottas for a pit stop and putting in fresh tires and then telling him to abort the fastest lap. Just bad.
Glad to see Max do well in front of the home crowd after a 36 year absence. Wish Norris had been able to do better but nothing doing.
Gasly is doing awesome. Wish he had a better car to show it.
Was on the golf course this morning and had it on my phone...that course looked amazing. The banking in the turns looked so badass. OT to my preference in racing: In some sort of multiverse where Nascar races in Europe, that would be an incredible show lol
Yea, I really enjoyed the course this morning. Definitely curvy, but in a way that allowed everyone to keep the speed up. The early back and forth between Ocon & Alonso with one taking the high line and the other the low was good stuff.
I didn't realize it at the time, but the Bottas pit so Hamilton could pit immediately after and still keep 2nd? That just ain't right.
Yea, seriously. As soon as Nico hypothesized it I thought that was some bullshit. I can't wait to see how Bottas drives if the rumors are right and he's leaving for Alfa at the end of the year because Mercedes wants to bring in Russell.
Bottas announced it today.
https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/69411/bottas-ends-mercedes-era-with-mu...
It wasn't just that, they held Bottas in the pits for a couple extra seconds just to give Hamilton extra cushion so that they wouldn't encounter each other at any point, and then they ordered Bottas off a Fastest Lap attempt once it became clear he was going to actually get it.
I'm very curious on how they are going to treat Russell going forward, cause that kid has elite talent. If they force him to cave to Hamilton every step of the way, they'll ruin him.
And good on Bottas for still abiding by those team orders despite knowing he already had a job elsewhere next year. At a certain point, I think I would have told Toto to pound sand and just finished the fastest lap. I hope Alfa has good car next year, because he deserves it.
... waits patiently and hopefully for Multi-21 ...
Glad to see Checo moving up the field so well. He's in a position to have more podiums/wins as long as he doesn't keep doing stupid things in qualifying.
HOLY SHIT LOLOL Kyle Larson with the FULL SEND and damn near pulled it off! What an amazing race
Hell of a finish! Glad he tried it, but more glad he didn't turn Denny tbh
Congrats to that 11 team. 😃😃
Been waiting all year for him to wheel it to victory lane. Hopefully Denny is peaking at the right time as Larson is going to be very hard to beat. That team has it together.
Wonder how Hamlin is celebrating tonight?
Edit: This is based off the tweet events of last week.
I'm so happy Denny won! He's been so close so many times this year. Considering the next two races are short tracks, I'm glad he's on to round 2! 🟠🟣🏁
Totally agree. I am a huge Hamlin fan. And my Mom is the biggest Larson fan I know (and it ain't even close). So she and I will be phone battling tomorrow 😂😂
Hopefully Denny can keep the momentum going. Would love to see him finally get that elusive championship.
Picked him to win tonight in the pool, but Richmond and Bristol are also two of his better tracks. May be a launching pad for him going into the rest of the playoffs.
He really got a load off his chest with that win...
Alright, lets see if I have this straight
Kimi: Alfa -> Retirement
Bottas: Merc -> Alfa
Russell: Williams -> Merc
Albon: RB Reserve -> Williams
Latifi: Staying at Williams
So far, all rumors have been proven true. So much for secrecy in F1.
Yeah Toto pretty much telegraphed the decision by saying that a decision had been made, but they would wait to announce as there were other interested parties. That would not have been the case with Bottas staying, so if that was the case then they would have just said it since there were no other interested parties.
Also I saw this article on Road and Track and wonder if this writer watches F1 at all
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a37498884/george-russell-to-mercedes-f...
Dude is saying its a complete shock and that Russell does not deserve the seat. I mean, dude is regularly making it to Q2 in a fucking Williams, the second worst car on the grid, and actually put it on the front row with the rain at Spa.
Edit: Looks like the article was just a big ol /S
I'm an F1 Netflix N00b, and even I saw Russell to Merc coming. That guy is
cluelessgood at sarcasm.Anybody else been drooling over the videos of the next gen cars at Daytona? Think I've said it before here, but my dad was at Martinsville during that test and said they sound badass in person.
I love Albon being picked up. I think he got a bit of a raw deal with Red Bull (who themselves are churning through drivers lately. Like, would it really be that difficult to just let one guy be Max's teammate for a couple seasons? At least they seemed to have learned with Checo, but still)
Shame it had to be with a Williams, but he's got plenty of talent, I could see him putting up some surprising results with them going forward.
Agreed. Seems like a really good guy/driver who got thrown in an unwinnable situation and just couldn't keep up with the pressure. Same thing happened with Gasly and see how well he's doing this year? To be fair to Red Bull, they had a decent partner for Max with Danny Ric but he had to up and leave for Renault.
Hopefully Williams has a good car next year and comes out fighting.
I don't even know if Alex couldn't keep up with the pressure. He had some good results with them in 2020, grabbing two podiums and finishing 7th in the standings. Which, while not great for what RB wanted, not exactly that far off the pace from what anyone else who has been in the car since Danny Ric. Tossing him out after a year and a half in the seat didn't sit well with me this year, and given Perez's recent results... I dunno. I think he was done dirty.
I hope everyone has a good car next year and it becomes a bit of a crapshoot. I'd love for the playing field to be more level than it has been. I'm definitely not saying there shouldn't be a clear best team, but the best teams shouldn't be heads and shoulders above everyone else to the point where it isn't competitive. At least Max is giving Hamilton a good push this year, hopefully Ferrari and MacLaren can come in strong next year and make it a 4 horse race.
I'd say it's been Hamilton/Mercedes that is/are giving Max a good "push" this year...
🤣🤣🤣
I dunno...it was Max who mounted Hamilton @ the chicane...
Anyone going to the Bristol race next weekend and plan to watch the game against the cousins from the lots around the track?
We'll be getting there Thursday afternoon/evening. Last year we just had my iPad set up with a bluetooth speaker...being that Tech is actually playing this year idk what we're going to do just yet. I like to idea of taking a tv out there for it, but I also loathe the idea of having to pack that thing out there too.
I've been looking at satellite TV setups and they're just more than I want to spend. I'm concerned I won't be able to hotspot a smartTV with a ton of people in the lot tailgating but that's my current plan due to a lack of alternatives. Was hoping to crowdsource a better idea or crash someone's watch party in exchange for ice cold refreshments.
After playing around with an old tv, I've figured out how to make this work...so long as we have good enough signal (we did last year for the games leading up to the race...granted that was like 40-50% capacity). Thunder Mountain Campground if you have no luck where ya park at.
I'm going to be going this weekend to Bristol... Never attended a race before but I know my parents used to go to Richmond a lot when Ricky Rudd was still racing. (They were friends from working in and around the car business in the 757, my mom went to his brother's funeral.)
Any tips for a novice?
Soft sided coolers are allowed, no glass. I recommend a good seat cushion. Either industrial grade ear plugs or stout ear muffs...place gets absurdly loud. Parking is...interesting. I'd stay away from the big lots if possible, find a yard or side of highway (been many years since I've parked in one of the big lots but holy shit it was a nightmare getting out). Be sure wherever you park to be on the side of the road you'll be going out on.
Again, cannot stress this enough...ear protection. I pull em off for about 10 laps a race just to remind myself why I'm looking like a dork with bigass ear muffs.
Where are your seats?
I've got ear plugs and just got some over the ear stuff too. We're lower grandstand and pretty damn close [*edit: just checked, section A-J row 4] to the track.
I think we're doing some shuttle for parking (my brother is handling all the logistics for parking and coolers) but I'll keep that in mind. I'm anticipating a nightmare getting out but it's been a while since I've been to a big sporting event - let alone nascar playoffs...
Yep, that's gonna be loud lol we sat down there about 4yrs ago coming out of two...may want some glasses too, rubber flies, not like a dirt track but you'll still get pelted some
As a casual - that was pretty fucking cool. I had some big over the ear protection good for 37 decibel reduction which was clutch. Still got to experience the sound and feeling, and could hear directions to get to the bus for parking afterward. I could feel the wind of the cars all night. Got a little sandy after the red flag whenever someone went high on turn 4.
One downside was planning on using my phone for the scanner app, but my puppy ate my headphones so I mostly just followed the leaders. But still, pretty damn cool first race.
Apps at NASCAR tend to be a no go, although I have had a little luck the last few races. Verizon is generally a no go for data, though. Cheap scanner is the way to go.
I went no ear protection at Richmond accidentally on purpose and it was fairly brutal and about prob half as bad as Bristol.
Richmond tomorrow? I'll be there
Yeah dude I'll be there, see you there!
Where'd ya sit? How was it? Got up around 6am, didn't get back from Blacksburg until about 9. Wife wanted to watch her Cards and had the race on the ipad, couple slices of pizza later I was knocked out lol
#TeamChaos!!
No kidding. This decision is going to be scrutinized intensely for an indication on how to race side-by-side through turns.
Personally, I don't think that Hamilton gave Verstappen enough room. But then again, neither did Verstappen early in the race. The difference was Hamilton bailing early, and Verstappen refusing to bail, and the result was an accident that left the top two racers on the sidelines.
Regardless, congratulations to Ricciardo and McLaren on a great 1-2 finish today!
Absolutely. I rewatched the two incidents, and it's tough because it's two different chicanes with different speeds.
Lap 1 Max is alongside and on the inside, and takes the racing line and ushers Hamilton wide. Hamilton takes avoiding action into the runoff area and we race on.
Later Max is maybe slightly behind, but has a right to pass on the outside of the turn. After exiting the pits Hamilton is supposed to leave a cars width, and does. The problem is that on the switch back in the chicane from turn 1 to 2, Max is left with nowhere to go. Should he pull out of the challenge? Maybe, but then what's the point of racing?
The sausage kerb launches him and the halo probably saves Hamilton from serious injury. I think it's a racing incident, but with a stern talking to to both drivers.
Beyond happy for Danny Ric, Lando, and Zac Brown though!
Edit: what the hell, 3 place grid penalty for Max next race? After Hamilton got 10 seconds in Silverstone? BRUH what?!
So a borderline racing incident gets you 3 grid spots. But Hamilton trying to back out while Max is getting out of the car—a HUGE safety issue—gets nothing? Imagine if Hamilton had dropped Max's car just as he was standing up in his seat... ridiculous and shows the "penalizing for safety" is total BS.
Hot take alert: I think the stewards are trying to cover up the fact that Lewis can't race in close quarters. This goes beyond Silverstone and Monza this year, too. Anytime he gets close to someone who is faster than he is, someone ends up wrecked. And typically, it's not Lewis.
Lewis had the blue flag coming out of the pit lane and the onus is on him to merge onto the track safely. He gave Max a car's width but has been doing this long enough to know the position he'd be placing Max in going into the chicane. He was banking on Max backing out and Max had absolutely no obligation to do so. Had Lewis given the room, he would've had the preferred position going into curva grande, not that he had the car to maintain that position in the first place. He knew he wasn't fast enough, so he squeezed Max.
I won't be unreasonable and act like Max is wholly innocent like he was in Copse, since he could've bailed out across the runoff area, but the most reasonable outcome would be to label this a racing incident. The grid penalty is whatever since it's all but certain Max will take the new power unit in Sochi, and I think the stewards know that, but assessing 2 points on his license is draconian and implies a sense of wrongdoing that simply isn't there.
I also don't appreciate the broadcaster's reliance on the Lap 1 incident in turn 4 to justify Lewis' actions. Those are significantly different turns and the runoff for Lewis was not a significant deviation from the racing line. Couple in the significant amount of traffic on Lap 1 as opposed to Lap 26, and the only similarities between these two incidents are that they occurred on the same race track, on the same day, between the same drivers. .
Lewis basically punted Alex Albon out of F1, so yeah, no argument here from me. The problem with Lewis is that the things he says and the attitude his displays shows that he legitimately thinks he should be afforded a level of protection above everyone else in F1. He thinks because he is Lewis he can put his car in any position he wants, and the onus is on the other drivers to avoid hitting him. The second the roles are reversed, he has no problem knocking someone else out of the way and then hiding behind Toto crying about racing incidents.
What's most frustrating watching this is just how much Sky Sports is willing to carry his water for him, effectively turning into a LH44 propaganda machine for the global audience. Listening to them massage Toto and his 'tactical foul' bullshit right before Damon Hill launches into a tirade about how Verstappen deliberately wrecked both cars was horseshit. Watching Coulthard spend all of Bottas' podium interview asking him about the accidents rather than spending a second on the fact that he went from last place on the grid to P3 the race after the entire world knew he was fired from Merc was horseshit. And this goes well beyond 'British broadcaster is biased toward British things', because McLaren went P1-P2 with arguably the best young British driver going P2, and they practically ignored it to carry Lewis' water.
By no means am I really either for Max or Lewis here, I'm just for good racing. We were robbed of that yesterday and we were robbed of that in Silverstone (which, the levels of discipline handed out for each incident is also horseshit and very much calls into question how much the FIA is in bed with Merc right now). By no means is Max innocent in all of this, but I'm very sick and tired of all these mouthpieces acting as if Lewis is just an innocent bystander the whole time, and I'm very annoyed to see the blatant double standard being played out in real time.
I'm also sick and tired of the played up rhetoric. This is arguably the best title race we've had in a decade, certainly the most hotly contested between two automakers. We don't need the pundits creating controversy with bullshit conspiracy theories like Hill did yesterday.
Especially since it was preceded by Paul Di Resta saying "yeah this really just looks like a racing incident" after breaking it down frame by frame.
Careful, y'all, don't you know that saying Hamilton is two-faced or favored or whatever is racist? /s
Well put by both of you. It's truly frustrating and while it sounds semi-conspiratorial to say F1 and FIA are protecting Hamilton, there's really no other explanation. It's like the NFL and Brady, but a whole other level.
FIA will organize a grid demonstration ahead of the Soviet GP to denounce the blatant bigotry exhibited on this message board. /s
Way to go McLaren! Hard not to feel good for Danny Ric getting back on top after the long drought. Kudos to Norris for being a good teammate and urging Ric on to help keep Perez/Bottas off of Norris and out of striking distance. Great job by Zak Brown to bring McLaren back to the front of the midfield. I'm really hoping that next year they nail the car and Norris can end up on the front line more often.
BS that Max got a 3-place grid penalty, but I think everyone is pretty confident that he'll take the engine penalty @ Russia and that Hamilton will do so as well.
Indeed, major props to Zak. I remember watching the Amazon docuseries during his first year there — when he was co-managing the team with two other guys — and instantly knew he was going to take that place over and get it right. He just so obviously has "it".
Absolutely. Kinda wish he'd managed to keep Sainz around, but I'm hoping that this weekend broke the streak for Danny Ric and he'll be more comfortable in the McLaren moving forward and start doing better.
Yeah, not sure how you ever keep anyone from moving to Ferrari, though, it's just too iconic. Danny definitely seems to have come back stronger after the Summer break, so something must've clicked for him.
Absolutely. You get a chance like that and you've gotta jump on it unless they're a raging Haas dumpster fire.
Danny mentioned in his post-race interview that the summer break was good for him to be able to just take a step back and get in a better head space. Time will tell.
I want to root for Haas because they're an American company, but you're right, they're such a dumpster fire that they're hard to root for. I don't know if they'll ever get it together, they're just that bad.
I was rooting for them right up until they became a Russian team.
/s-ish?
No /s necessary, they are literally running the Russian flag as their livery
That, too. I was going to bring that up, but decided to leave it alone. But it's a good point. Why bend over backwards to root for a putrid American team when they bring on Russia as a cosponsor?
Ditto. The whole time watching D2S I was hoping that they'd pull it out and make it into the mid-field instead of the back markers, but as soon as Mazepin bought his way on and the Ruskies got involved I just want them to implode.
Which seems wrong because Guenther is a good dude and Schumacher deserves a decent shot. But Haas is no longer an American team.
I've been hearing rumors that Sauber/Alfa Romeo is being shopped and Michael Andretti is the leading contender to buy they team. I would love to see Colten Herta in a F1 Car, I believe he raced in Europe for a while. There is also Rossi, who did get a few starts for Manor before it imploded.
So yeah, its nice to have an American Team but I would love it if said American team had an American driver. We will see what happens if Andretti can purchase Sauber/Alfa Romeo.
I heard the same, but with the caveat being that Andretti is looking to only buy Alfa racing and that Sauber would be split away to either find their own thing again or to just step away from F1 in general
Y'all have ruuiiined this NASCAR thread. We can't even talk about how utterly boring the Richmond race was.
Tbh I wasn't expecting this much engagement across both! Maybe next year we have separate F1 and Nascar threads? 🤝
Also yeah Richmond was boring, especially compared to Darlington the week prior. Hopefully Bristol offers more excitement for ya
Lol no I'm kidding I love so much activity in it. I'm following it all, y'all are teaching me tons about F1 because I only casually watch it.
Glad to help bring some culture into this fine establishment 😎
All jokes aside, rumor has it that Danny Ric had a bet with the boss that if he won, he'd be allowed to race in NASCAR sometime soon. I honestly really hope they can make that work.
The bet was Danny could drive Zak's Earnhardt car (and Zak gets Danny's first trophy and a shoey). Are you saying there's a rumor that, in addition, Danny will get to drive in a NASCAR race?
I'm pretty sure that's what I heard, and no lie, I'll be disappointed if it's wrong. I mean if Kimi can race NASCAR, why not.
So you're saying I need to post more about IndyCar...
Richmond is such an outlier over the last couple years. Seems like the packages they're putting out are maximizing the excitement at nearly every track...Richmond went from being a consensus too 2-3 tracks on the circuit 15-20yrs ago to perhaps the most boring. I hope it can get back to what it was in the 2000s, but short of picking the cars up off the track surface, idk what the hell it could be. Sad, really. Go from selling out 120k seats for about 10yrs straight to not being able to sell 50k.
Sorry. I'm happy to complain about Nascar too. The Richmond race stunk. I love short track racing, SRX was awesome, but the things that made that great don't translate to a 400 lapper at Richmond. The cars are glued to the track and it looks like a processional with green flag stops and tire failures dictating the final outcome. I'm not looking for a wreck fest, but I am looking to finish a race with more than 9 cars on the lead lap. There were tons of fast cars out there who got screwed by taking chances on pit strategy and pit stall selection and ended up a lap down due to a lack of yellows. (*ahem* the 21 car).
I'm officially on team #MakeRichmondFlatAgain
2022 Cup schedule drops tomorrow. One of the correct leaks thus far: running the Clash/Shootout two weekends prior to the 500 at. *drumroll* the LA Coliseum. Yeah, the Southern Cal LA Coliseum lol it's gonna a 1/4mile bullring. Bring it on, why not?
I think most of it already dropped and then there this is.
Too. Many. Road. Courses.
See y'all at COTA!
That was a great finish at Bristol! I thought Harvick and Elliott was going to come to blows, Harvick was visibly pissed!
And I agree that they should have Bristol host the championship race! 🔥🔥
We were sitting right above the end of the back stretch pit road and you'd have thought we were at a boxing match the way the fans reacted. One row of Larson/Elliott fans, one row of Ford/Harvick fans, all screaming for one or the other to throw hands. What a great night. That's what Bristol is all about
We were on the exact opposite side, right above the exit of pitroad and were dying to see over the war wagons to see what was happening lol that was the best back-to-back races I've seen there since we've made the annual trek to Bristol. Hell of a weekend and pretty great weather, too.
Man the race after McLaren goes 1-2 in Monza, Lando ends up on the friggin pole at Sochi, with Sainz next to him.
What a ridiculous couple weeks McLaren has had. Hope Lando can keep this going tomorrow. That car can be seriously quick and he's got a great shot at his first win if he can keep it going.
McLaren mention, check. Sainz mention, check. Russell beating Hamilton and Bottas in a Williams... uh, hellllllo? :)
Hopeful that Lando parks the bus like him and Danny did last race, and that Russell gets another legit points finish. Either way, this qualy has me amped for 2022.
I mean at this point, Russell kicking everyone's ass in a Williams during quali seems to be the norm.
It was going so well only for it to go to shit right at the end.
Sadness
I am crushed for Lando. He drove a brilliant race for 50 laps and then made a boneheaded decision to ignore the pit wall. That said, Zach should have gotten on the radio and told him to get his ass in. He'll learn from this though.
Congrats to Lewis for 100 and Max for making up 19 spots and a brilliant move to go from 7th to 2nd.
I'm not crushed for him. Yes, he drove a brilliant race, but was immature at the end. When told to pit he said, "What, NOOOO!" And that's what cost him. He had a 30sec lead over P3 when teams were realizing that the rain was coming. Had he pit then, he would have had a floor of P2, and still likely won. (The only way he wouldn't was if he pitted, Hamilton didn't, and the rain held off.)
Those kind of things you learn through experience, and he learned today.
Max was amazing today, but he was looking at P7/P8, but he made a timely pit for rain tires and came out in P2. That's what experience gives you. Lando was lacking it, and Max (and Lewis) had it.
That's not really fair. Mclaren pit wall kept asking Lando if he was okay to stay on slicks or swap out. Both he and Hamilton both wanted to stay out on slicks, so it wasn't "immature". The difference was Mercedes forced Hamilton to pit because they thought it was going to get worse. The McLaren pit wall told Lando "The rain is going to stay the same" in which case Lando's decision was probably correct/would have worked out.
Its not unreasonable for a team to try to risk it to win as an underdog team. Gutted for Lando because he really diddnt do anything wrong.
Fair enough. Still really new at F1. At least now I know what happens if you stay on slicks and it starts to rain. That was brutal to watch. Absolutely brutal.
It's crazy to watch. It is literally like they are driving on ice.
Yep, Lando kept stressing that, as long as the rain stayed the way it was, that he could handle. And, lets be honest, he really can. He's proven himself this year as one of the better wet weather drivers in the sport, and he was extending his lead over Hamilton. If the weather was going to remain the same, Lando was going to cruise to a win. The problem is that McLaren never told him that things were going to get worse, while Mercedes told Lewis that it was. That info, and lack of info, caused the decisions that were made.
I'll have to go back and watch the end of the race. I was getting [kid] distracted at the time, and missed a lot of the communications. If that's really how it played out, then I do feel badly for Lando (who drove his ass off yesterday).
Edit: Yeah, his team mentioned that there's rain on the track, and did he want to come in for inters. "What? NO!" They didn't mention anything about it getting heavier. They gave him the decision, but not the information to make the decision.
Yeah, and he said as much in the post-race interviews. Basically, he could only operate on what he knew and he didn't know it was getting worse. Just absolute bad communication all around from McLaren, and obviously Lando could afford to listen a little more, but McLaren needs to learn how to get a point across to a driver who is in a high pressure situation.
Danny Ric in his postrace said, at a certain point its on the driver to make that call and know when its time to cut over to Inters. At the same time, he passed through that corner a good 30-40 seconds after Lando, and saw it was getting bad, and made the call to come in, so even he was caught off guard for how bad it was getting. Unfortunately, by the time Lando made it back around it was a downpour, and he was screwed.
All teams have access to the weather radar. They all saw the rain coming. The drivers don't have that info, and it has to be on them to relay that when the unexpected is about to hit. Merc won the race by doing that, McLaren lost it by not.
And yet he still stayed out for a couple of laps. Rewatching again, Hamilton entered the pits at the end of lap 49/53 (it switched over to 50/53 as Norris crossed the line right after), so he had 4 laps to go. Hamilton commented that it appeared to have stopped, but was told by his team that there was more rain coming. Lando near turn 4-5 (as Hamilton was exiting the pits) was told that Hamilton got inters, and he reiterated that he was commited to staying out. But at that moment he was getting lapped by Mazepin with inters. He slips again right afterwards, and he slips again on the turn right before pit entrance. At that point he was 18.4s up on Hamilton with three laps to go, and the commentators had it right: a 6+s lap differential would lose him the race. But other than those minor slips, there wasn't a lot of evidence that it was getting worse. It was down to 14.4s by the end of the front strait, and by the time he got to turn 5, it was real bad and Hamilton catches him a turn or two later.
So he may have not had a lot of information about more rain incoming, but the couple of slips he had on the lap after Hamilton pitted should have at least given him SOME information about whether or not to come in. And he had a chance to come in on the lap after Hamilton, and it would have been really close. But it didn't really get sideways (pun intended) until he got back to the other end of the track 1.5 laps after Hamilton pitted, and by that point Hamilton was passing him.
It may have been a downpour on the far end of the track, but he didn't know it at pit entrance the next lap after Hamilton pitted. And his team should have mentioned that.
TL,DR: If Mazepin is passing you, you should come in for new tires anyways.
It was getting slippery, but it was still drivable. Had the weather remained the way it was, which was the understanding that Lando had, he was going to have about a 30 second lead on Lewis for first. With there being 4 laps left, Lewis would have needed to gain 8 seconds per lap to catch up, which wasn't really feasible had the rain not picked up.
So with what they knew at the time, it was the right call. And you even saw it play out a bit with how he was back and forth with a couple backmarkers who were already on Inters for that initial lap. However, because Hamilton pitted, he was always going to be gaining until the end. Pitting at that point was conceding the win, because Lewis would have gained enough to overtake while they were changing tires, which is why Lando said on the radio that they had to commit to staying out if they wanted to win. And really, had they pitted at that time maybe he finishes 4th instead of 7th, so at that point they were pot committed.
The rain also DUMPED in a relatively short period of time. It went from some light spray coming from the tires to absolute white out conditions in a lap or less.
Lando and McLaren will ABSOLUTELY learn from this and it will be a painful memory for quite some time to come, but they will get through it. Lando has real world experience to file away and keep for a rainy day (pun intended), and McLaren now knows that sometimes they need to nut up and tell their driver to stop being an idiot. A 2nd place podium is a lot sweeter than a 7th place *blegh*.
There's a really good write-up on Autosport about all of this: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclarens-mistake-in-russian-gp-not-onl...
Also, I highly recommend Autosport. Them and TKP are the only news/editorial subscriptions I pay for.
Great article.
Honestly, its a great lesson for both sides to learn at this point. If McLaren can lock in the 2022 specs and really give the team a competitive car next year, Lando has all the talent to challenge for the WDC right away. He's consistently challenging for a podium right now, he's been challenging for pole off and on all season long. And learning lessons like he did over the weekend will only make him stronger in the end. People were worried that he'd be tentative in the wet after Spa qualifying, and if anything, he was even more ballsy in Russia than he was then.
If he pits the lap after Hamilton, he gives up the race win period. He almost certainly comes in 2nd, which hindsight is great, but he loses the race. Hamilton had already made up the time to undercut Norris. Again it seamed pretty clear McLaren didn't see that much rain coming, so even if Lando did get passed for the lead by Hamilton, they were still so far out front they probably figured he would still be able to secure 2nd.
Boo.
/s
I don't mind Denny. He was due this year and his 2 playoff wins aren't surprising with JGR. Glad it isn't a full Larson runaway for now.
Got a cute story about Larson.
My Mom is a huge Larson fan. She lives in Wise County with only a handful of neighbors and friends. She has a 410 shotgun she fires off each time Larson wins. She wrote a cute note to Hendrick asking him to slow Larson down as shotgun shells ain't cheap. Rick sent her a nice note back with two autographed hats and a third hat and sent her a box of shotgun shells. She has quite the keepsake now with the note and the shells.
I picked up on Denny after Terry Labonte retired (I was a huge Labonte fan). Denny is a VA boy and a Hokie fan.
That Joey Gase hit during the Vegas race last night was brutal. Thankful he's okay. TV didn't do it justice. (LINK)
Yeah I had to rewind it and squint, but could tell he went airborne. One of those hits that without the safer barrier he would've been pretty tore up.
Anyone going to Talladega this weekend? I'm excited to go back to another race this year.
You lucky bastard. Last time I went was the rainout in 2019.
I only live about 2.5 hours away so we schedule to go to both races if we can each year. First time getting camping inside the track so it will be a new perspective for a race weekend. Getting final gear checks done today.
Nice! Where are yall in the infield? We've been in the geico area coming off of 4 twice then in the middle of 1&2 right at the entrance of the boulevard...both of which had their perks.
We are in between turns 1 and 2. I'm ready to be off work and be headed that way instead of sitting in meetings.
Two steps from the rowdiest place in the nation for two weekends a year lol have fun man
That infield area had some fun for sure. No quiet hours has the good and bad. I didn't have the time off to stick it out for the race but was still able to see it on TV Monday. Figured it would be a shortened race but I'd be like Bubba and take any win in any way I can get it. Excited for the rest of the playoffs.
The Boulevard is the wildest thing I've ever experienced. But yes, 3&4 offers some quiet hours...1&2...kinda gotta drink yourself to sleep.
Was able to catch a few laps here and there throughout the race, with impending rain they were pushing it hard. Bubba better be thanking his lucky stars for that as well, because without that caution I doubt he even leads that lap. Did extremely well to get up front and keep it as long as he did, but either Kes and Joey were going to capitalize on whoever he tried to block right there.
COTA this weekend. Finally some practices, qualifying and racing that I won't have to watch while sipping coffee.
Should be a great weekend!
That's awesome. But definitely Sr. He and Junebug are buddies, but Sr. is his driving hero.
Lol I didn't even realize the caption error until you pointed it out. You're 100% right
lol yeah, like a dumbass I chose the one tweet with the typo
FP1 is just getting started, and I'm very much jealous of everyone who got to head down this weekend. I might have to make a big effort to make Miami next spring. (I do love hearing that the 2022 Miami circuit might be temporary and that they're still trying to work out a downtown race... if they can make it work around the harbor and the cruise port, that would be such a wonderful spot).
If they get it over the Port Miami Bridge like originally proposed, I'm 100% flying in for the Miami GP... even though I live 30 minutes from COTA.
I mean... if they do that, I'll just fly in on Thurs, enjoy the weekend, watch the race, and then sail out on cruise on Sunday after the race is over.
Race has been over for a while, but I still just can't even. Those of us in Raleigh had the ending absolutely ruined by... Well, just watch
Here's the kicker, there was no update given during this. Just a 90 second update to tell us they had no new information. They cut back to the race during Max's cool down lap.
F1 TV Live is worth it, can start watching whenever I want to, has race and quali summaries for catching up when you don't have the time to watch 2 hours of coverage, has a ton of additional content and most of all, is never interrupted.
Holy crap, that's just bad. Wowwwwww.
It was genuinely one of those moments where all you could do was laugh.
Come to find out late yesterday, all the gunshots they thought they heard which caused all this breaking news... I shit you not, it was a broomstick falling onto a table.
MARTINSVILLE WEEK IS HERE BOYS AND GIRLS! LET'S GET NASTY!
Larson is locked for Phoenix, Chase and DenDen are near locks unless something goes horribly wrong, Logano is in a near must-win scenario. Busch, Blaney, Truex, and Kes and all neck and neck for that fourth spot.
.
100 laps in. Beautiful day, huge crowd...and Roger Penske is in the suite beside of us. What's the move here?
For the uninformed, why was everyone booing denny? Is he like a villain now or something?
Denny has always been the villian for whatever reason.
I think he had every right in the world to be pissed about what happened. However...when you wreck the golden boy for the lead, what, 4 or 5 years ago...can't really expect to be a fan favorite.
So the race this weekend, as much as Sky tried to hype it up, was pretty boring. Whatever Merc did to that engine just made it impossible for Lewis to be beaten. I know a lot of people say that any driver could win with the Merc car during the hybrid era, especially if the team is prioritizing that driver like they do with Lewis, but.... Yeah, over the weekend, that was abundantly clear to be true. The car was just 20 kph faster than everyone else on the long straight. With DRS, it wasn't even a fair fight. Complete snoozer of a race, to be honest.
At the same time, woke up this morning to the news that Audi has bought McLaren Racing. Which, I'm really not sure what to think of it. I hope Zack Brown stays in control, because he's great and I love having an American running the show of one of the big teams in F1. But also as a McLaren fan, I'm really not sure how I should feel. On one hand, this should make the team better in the long run, and McLaren has had huge success in the past with an engine from that group. I also hope they are able to keep the name (or at least go with McLaren-Audi) because F1 without McLaren just won't feel right. And please don't take my papaya away.
Seems like the Audi McLaren story may not be accurate. The new Merc engine is really disappointing in the sense that it feels like there's no good way for Redbull to counter with several tracks upcoming that are well suited for the extra HP. Rather than getting a good driver fight to the end, they may just have "bought" Hamilton the WDC with the new engine.
What I don't get about this whole thing. This is what, Hamilton's 6th engine of the season? And each time they replace it the penalty for doing it is less than the time before? Shouldn't that be the opposite effect?
And regarding McLaren, yeah, it definitely looks to be fake news. They have the same statement running on their website right now.
McLaren Group statement
Right, at some point each additional engine is only a 5-place grid penalty and it doesn't change. Based on their pace , they might as well just swap a new engine every weekend.
I'm hoping Verstappen/Red Bull have another engine in their pocket to swap into that can compete with this new Mercedes engine.
Completely agree about the power of the Mercedes engine. He's going to be hard to beat these last three races. And with only 14 point separating Verstappen and Hamilton, he's got a shot to win, even if Ham/Ver finish 1/2 the next three races. (Fastest laps will make the difference, and Hamilton will have an advantage there.)
Question though: What is the significance of Brazil to Hamilton? He seemed to spend the whole aftermath of the race parading the Brazilian flag, and they loved him for it. Is he part Brazilian or something?
Nice call by Red Bull to have Checo go for the fastest lap. It didn't cost him at all in the race finish order, and he was able to pick up another point (stealing one from Hamilton in the process). Checo is down by 25 to Bottas, though, for 3rd place in the driver's standings, so it looks like it would take a Bottas DNF for Checo to have a shot over the last three races.
Edit: It seems that I'm starting to grok F1 strategies, as I was able to predict Checo going for the fastest lap to my wife, who promptly responded, "Really, I couldn't care less." ;^)
Another dominant win by Hamilton this week in Qatar.
Looking at the standings:
I know Verstappen still has the lead, but I'm just not confident that he's going to pull it out, with Mercedes looking so good right now, and with two races to go. And failing another puncture or two, I don't think Checo is going to make the podium, and Mercedes will win the constructor's.
Feels like it has been a looong time since both the drivers and constructers races have not been decided by this point in the year. Should be a great final two races.
And here I am a Netflix N00b, thinking that this season is just how it goes every year.
Thoughts re Hamilton's engine change: It looks like Mercedes put in an engine that is tuned for performance at the expense of reliability, since they only need it to hold for four races (Brazil and beyond). As a result, the Merc engine is outperforming the Honda engine by a significant margin. If this engine holds, it seems clear the Hamilton is going to win the driver's championship on the last race of the season.
Should RedBull do a similar engine swap, going to a tweaked Honda engine for the Saudi Arabia race? That's assuming they have enough data to know just how much performance they can squeeze out of their engine while still being confident that it will last for two more races. I know that Verstappen would take a 5-position penalty for changing the engine at Saudi Arabia, which he could easily make back during the race, and then would have no penalty for the Abu Dhabi race.
Thoughts, for those more in "tune" with F1?
My opinion is that if F1 really wants to cut back on teams spending for a title, then they need to actually do it.
You are allowed 3 engines per year. The 4th gets you a 10 place grid penalty. Each one after that is only 5. That's ridiculous, making it worth your while to just burn an engine swap early and then accept the 5 place penalty toward the end when other teams can't afford to do the same. That's what Merc is exploiting this year and it's effectively going to buy Lewis his 8th title.
4th should be a 10 place grid penalty. 5th should be 15 places. Anything after that and it's an automatic start from the rear. And start docking constructor championship points after the 5th. This is ridiculous.
Me, looking at Mercedes and RedBull starting P20 and finishing on podium, wondering why they'd care.
In seriousness, when you have an advantage like Merc and RB, no penalty will hurt them. Start from the rear? They'll be lapping cars before the first pit stop. Take constructor points? Ferrari is 244 points behind RB, so whatevs. Monetary? Pssssh.
It needs a fix, I just don't know what, especially if you try and ensure it won't disproportionately affect the smaller teams.
It may not close the gap between 2nd & 3rd in the WCC, but it'll make 1st & 2nd think about pulling something like that.
Agreed. I'm not sure if your solution is the exact one that should be implemented, but something similar to it sounds like a viable option. Only concern I've got is a driver who gets into 1 or 2 wrecks that cause engine damage through no fault of their own.
all of you who watch F1 - I just started watching drive to survive. My favorite part so far(4 episodes in) has been the awkwardness between the Renault and Red Bull managers, it's actually quite hilarious every time they interact. On that note, how is it not a conflict of interest for Renault to supply engines to other F1 teams, when they have their own F1 team?
The other teams are customers and paying Renault for the engines. There's a rule in F1 that every engine supplier must offer their engines for sale to any team who wants it (so that every team isn't required to develop their own engine, which would be impossibly expensive for most teams).
The FIA and the teams do a good job monitoring one another and making sure the engine suppliers A) aren't sabotaging the engines they sell and B) are playing fair in offering upgrades, etc. As you'll see watching DTS, every team could basically compete with MI6 and the CIA when it comes to surveillance and gamesmanship.
Obviously it's all a bit more nuanced and complex, but that's the gist of it.
Christian Horner (Red Bull Team Principal) is one of the best parts of the show. He always seems to be willing to speak his mind on camera, and he's got a good sense of humor, too. Later on, you'll see a lot of good-natured smack talk with Toto Wolf (Mercedes Team Principal), even though their rivalry has a bit of an edge to it.
And he hired Checo, too, so he's got a great eye for talent. Oh, and that Verstappen kid, too.
The Horner/Toto shit talking is hilarious to me. Both of them are good at what they do, however Horner really knows how to pushes Toto's buttons.
Gunther Steiner's talk is pretty great as well. I really enjoy the episodes where they focus on Haas. I mean, they're cringeworthy, because Haas is so underfunded, but he's just so great being himself on camera that I just love the dude.
2021 Haas episodes, though. It's gotta be a shitshow behind the scenes, which with Gunther, will make for some great TV!
Still gotta give the edge to Christian Horner, though. I mean, the man married Geri Halliwell!
Yea. Gunther is pretty damn even if some of the stuff he says (at least on camera) is suppppper cringy.
Total props to Christian for snagging Ginger Spice.
FACKKKK max had quali in the bag until that last corner. Hope he can fix it without penalty
2 red flags already. With this track this race is going take forever to get to the checkered flag.
This track is so trash. Too narrow for the speeds these cars are going. Lucky the F2 accident wasn't fatal as well
Welp stewards decided to end the race 6 laps early on their own accord. Smh
In case you had any doubts about the Sky Sports bias toward Lewis this year
Damn I wanna see someone win who isn't driving a silver arrow...
Should be an exciting race today! ¡Vamos Checo!
I'm ready. Hopefully it's a fairly clean race.
Oof. Nicely done.
I gotta say, it's been an interesting year for me, having found Drive to Survive, the outstanding behind the scenes show on Netflix, which sucked me into this world. From binging all three seasons, to watching my first race at Monaco (where I finally understood why people said the real race is at qualifying), to finding a driver to cheer for (¡Vamos Checo!), to watching the evolution of a championship race, this has been an interesting year, and I've enjoyed diving into the F1 world. Here's to a good race today.
Some great racing between Checo and Hamilton on lap 20-21. Was able to hold up Hamilton such that Verstappen closed the gap, and then have him DR'S to help him close further. But the Sky commentators are right: Red Bull just doesn't have an answer for Mercedes' raw speed.
Sucks that Kimi had to retire the cat, but I loved what was written in the side: "Thanks, Kimi. We'll leave you alone now."
Wow, that Virtual Safety Car really changed the race, with Verstappen putting and Hamilton staying out.
"Looks like racing is back on the menu, boys!"
I'm in the same boat as you (although I jumped in with both feet at the beginning of the season). It's fascinating to watch and I've found a year long sport to follow that's not VT!
Go Lando!
Have you settled on a rooting interest yet?
¡Vamos Checo!
Oh yea, I'm in the corner of McLaren & Norris.
Landoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Picked up a McLaren Gulf jacket a month or so ago. Absolutely love it.
I asked Santa for some McLaren swag...we'll see what happens
How the hell have Lewis' tires not fallen off?
HOLY SHIT WHAT A FINISH
Unbelievable finish! From the late Safety Car, Hamilton not putting AGAIN, and the decision to let the lapped cars through as the Safety Car was ending, and some great racing without DRS. I don't think anybody could've predicted that, and I'm sure Mercedes is FUMING over those decisions. But Verstappen is now the youngest champion in F1 history.
I'm just sad that Checo couldn't share that podium. I wonder what caused them to retire the car.
Hamilton has to be pissed at his team when Mercedes didn't pit him either time Max pitted and then pissed at how they didn't require everyone that's as lapped to pass. Definitely a great ending to the season after it looked pretty boring almost the entire race. I have a feeling this will bring a lot more fans into formula 1 for next season.
I mean, I get it. The Sky commentators post-race commented on that, explaining how the lead racer is handcuffed, because the second-place racer can react to whatever they do. If Lewis pits, Max stays out and gains track position, ands potentially winning the race and championship under caution.
The decision to allow some lapped traffic to clear out is interesting, but the race director said it was purely to allow for a lap of racing at the end, and that does make some sense. Sure Mercedes is pissed, but when they reflect on it, they would certainly want that to happen in the reverse circumstance. All I know it's it came down to an exciting down to the season.
Yea, Mercedes was truly in a "fucked if you do, fucked if you don't" position with the SC. I think RC completely mishandled things though. You are absolutely correct though, if Merc was in RB's position then it would have been the exact same response, just flip flopped.
Good morning!
This is some of FIAs finest work. A total scam IMO. But I'm thrilled for Max and so glad Hamilton didn't win. The FIA handles the last few weeks terribly, but Merc not pitting Hamilton ended up costing him the race, regardless of what the FIA decided on the last lap.
First off, let me preface this by saying that I'm glad that Max won. Even as a newbie to the F1 world, I think that a new WDC is good for the sport.
That said, the FIA has had some shit calls all season. Their inability to consistently enforce the rules has been a train wreck. Either Massi can't control the stewards, the stewards aren't right for the job, or a combination of the two is leading to some bad calls. In my opinion, if you really wanted to preserve the racing there should have been an immediate red flag after GOATifi hit the wall. Everyone goes back to the pits, swaps tires, and you have a 5 lap sprint for the finish. Option B would have been to have the back markers immediately unlap as soon as the SC deployed. The fact that the stewards waffled for 3 laps before finally committing to something is just stupid.
So I agree with most of this. I was rooting for Max, so I was thrilled Hamilton was on old tires, but a red flag was probably the best case of action if you wanted racing. Normally, they ONLY call red flags for extensive track repairs/repairing barriers, so I don't know if that was even an option. As far as the unlapping cars, Its a tough one. There were still marshalls on the track on lap 56. So they couldn't let any lapped cars through until they were cleared. Then the tough part comes where are you going to finish the year under caution? Its a tough spot, which they handled poorly.
At the end of the day I think Max deserved the championship more than Lewis this year. Lewis and Merc came on strong late, but Lewis punted Max at Silverstone, Bottas torpedoed Max at Hungary, Max lost out on points at Spa, and the random tire failure at Baku. He should have had this championship locked up way before this race.
The fact that the Williams was sitting perpendicular to the track is exactly why it should have been red flagged. I understand that it's only supposed to be used for certain occasions, but this felt like a big enough occasion to warrant it. The fact that you had marshalls running around the track cleaning debris just reinforces it.
Max definitely raced his ass off. Merc got their poop in a group and managed to come back strong, but if not for all of those issues that you pointed out, Max should have had this season wrapped up by Qatar or even Brazil.
Yeah, but there have been plenty of races this year where there have been wrecked cars on the track with no red flag. It is only called when the barriers need major repair or something. I have no idea if it is discretion or a rule. I agree it should have been a red flag if it is discretionary.
I'm sure that will be one of the things teams will be pushing for to be clarified this off season.
That was criminal.
Cue up another 4 months of Hamilton fans and Verstappen fans retreating to their separate corners whilst screaming at one another. I was hoping for a less controversial finish, but of course the FIA can't allow that to happen.
I think Mercedes will rightfully lose any appeals because the rules were technically followed, but I'm sure their strategy in the end hinged on their belief that there was no way for a single lap under green—especially with no space between Lewis and Max—and based on decades of F1 that's what was expected to happen.
Still, rule #1 of complaining about the refs is to first blame yourself for being in a position where the refs could screw you. Pit strategy, Bottas being two miles behind, and coming into the race level on points; lots of ways Mercedes could've avoided being in the position to begin with.
The FIA needs a reorg, though; this season was a total joke. Masi needs to be gone, they need full-time stewards, and they need to simplify the rules and get back to actual racing.
In closing... SUPER SUPER MAX MAX MAX.
Let's be honest, if the FIA wasn't in Merc's pocket all season, especially regarding the shenanigans at Silverstone, this title would have already been won by Max a few races ago. The fact that this all played out like it did was poetic justice, especially when you remember how everyone shat all over Lando and McLaren for their tire strategy in Sochi while praising Lewis like they did. Merc has nobody to blame but themselves.
If Max finishes top 5 in Silverstone and didn't blow that piece of shit pirelli tire in Baku he would have closed it out last week.
If he hadn't been torpedoed by Bottas in Hungary, would have closed it out even earlier
Exactly. Max should have had this season sown up a lot earlier, but a couple of events screwed that up. The fact that the FIA didn't do anything after the clusterfuck in Baku with the tires speaks volumes. Sure, Hamilton screwed it up on the restart, but still.
To me, the biggest fuckup over the entire season was a joke of a penalty handed to Hamilton in Silverstone for taking Max out of the race. That set a tone that lasted the remainder of the season where the drivers were basically given instruction to take matters into their own hands. That let to the shit storm in Monza, that led to the reaction in Hungary, and the engine penalties that RB was forced to take throughout the remainder of the season, and set the table for the shenanigans in the last few.
You handle Silverstone correctly, and assess Lewis a penalty fitting for the action that happened, and the cluster over the rest of the season is likely avoided.
Agreed. A 10s penalty for taking out your competitor is a joke, especially with the leads that Hamilton & Max were able to create and maintain because of them being so good. It definitely resulted in some bad blood between the two of them.
I also can't wrap my head around Baku and FIA allowing Pirelli off the hook after two catastrophic tire failures. I'm not sure what they could have done, but through absolutely no fault of his own Max lost 25 valuable points.
ALOT of decisions went Merc's way. But let's not forget this entire season's aero changes that were pretty much meant to hurt the low-rake design cars (Merc and Aston Martin). Hence why RB was so strong in the first half of the season, then Merc finally got on top of the aero.
Ding Ding Ding !!!!!
I'm all over this, and I love it. It's like watching all the haranguing for Ohio State all year, until they lose to Michigan, and get left out of the playoff. Chef's kiss.
F1 is loving this, too. Schumacher and Hamilton were good for the sport, but other drivers got left in the dust. This has been a thrilling season, and I've watched more races this year than ever before. Maybe we'll get an American to win it in the near future.
I haven't watched the Netflix special, but I hear it's good.
It's really good. You'll have a different perspective, of course, having some knowledge of F1 going into it. For me, grummanhokie, and many others, it was a fantastic look into a sport I knew nothing about, and the personalities drove the show. For me, I'm rooting for Checo because I want to see a Red Bull #2 driver do well, after the three years of them struggling with Ricciardo, Gasly, and Albon. When (I think) the penultimate episode of season 3 ended with Horner (who I'm a big fan of, see above) with "Welcome to Red Bull, Sergio," that sealed it for me.
Season 4 is going to be so much fun to watch, having followed F1 for most of this season.
Agreed. I had no interest in motorsports before watching DTS and this year I've either watched every race live or afterwards via YTTV. The personalities that DTS captures helps a lot, not just the drivers, but the managers and principles as well. Netflix does dramatize some things, but in the end you gotta take the bad with the good.
Having watched this season live, I can't wait for S4.
What will suck though is Max is not involved with this years series. He had said that he did not like how they portrayed some things, creating drama where there wasn't (which of course they do, like all "reality series".
I think that will take some things out of it because of course we all want to see the behind these scenes with him and going for the title, but supposedly he is not involved with it at all.
If you notice that the first season did not have any coverage of Ferrari and Mercedes (Ferrari was still in the top two teams at the the time) because they are so protective of their methods they did not want them exposed. Of course they changed their tune once they saw how much exposure it gave the sport and that there was more to gain than lose.
Tangentially related: the radio coms between Alex and Max as soon as Max crossed the line was awesome.
Yeah. Albon (and Gasly and Ricciardo as well) are really hard not to root for. I'd like to see Albon in a cockpit soon, but there are just so few spots.
Note: I've noticed that there are a bunch more starting grid positions than 20. I wonder if, due to the sport's rising popularity and the cost-containment measures starting in 2022, will we see any eventual expansion of the grid?
Albon is in the Williams next year with Latifi
Good for him! That's an easy fella to root for.
Happy for Max, but it was gifted to him. The rules were absolutely NOT followed. Masi himself stated in 2020 that ALL cars lapped must unlap themselves under safety car. The rule technically states that "ANY" car will unlap themselves. The legal-ese of any vs all is simple. The race director also has the authority and discretion on use and deployment of the safety car. However, once the SC is deployed, there is a rulebook for its use that is not really up for interpretation
I agree, Mercedes protesting and appealing will amount to nothing substantial in terms of the ultimate decision, but it it's worth pursuing to clean up this mess and ultimately the sport. Not to mention the financial damages of wrongfully losing the WDC.
A Lawyer's Take
I hear you, but if there's anything that I could not care less about, is a lawyer's take on the rules interpretations for a race.
As I understand it (read elsewhere, can't recall where), there's a clause in the rule books that gives the racing director (or whatever the title is) some latitude to handle safety car issues. It's almost as if the rules were written to give the racing director an out.
In a perfect world, they would have unlapped the lapped cars a lap or two earlier, but I think you can make an argument that the steps they took were necessary to have the championship decided under racing conditions. Maybe F1 should look into some form of NASCAR's green-white-checkered system, which promotes green-flag finishes to races, for next season. That way, teams can strategize pitting based on knowledge of an attempt of green-flag racing to end the race.
Unfortunately F1 cant do any G-W-C finishes, The cars cant refuel, so the drivers/teams manage the fuel to last until exactly the last lap. I think Vettel even got DQd from a race this year due to not having the required fuel left at the end of the race.
I mean you can easily get around this by just increasing the fuel requirement at the end of the race to account for a G-W-C scenario, and should the situation arise, just lower the fuel requirement by the estimated amount needed to run them.
I say just put the GWC in the rules and don't change the fuel requirements. It's up to the teams to make sure they have enough fuel to take into account the possibility of a GWC.
Understand the thought, but the unintended consequence there is that teams would inevitably back off at the end in fear that there could be a G-W-C. In hopes to encourage anyone in position to go for it at the end, just set the regular race limit with a G-W-C reserve baked in that teams are allowed to use in those situations, and then they know exactly how much they can push it at the end, levels the playing field and would hopefully encourage more aggressive strategies at the end.
Eh, we'll have to agree to disagree here. I think leaving it up to the teams is more interesting from a strategy perspective. If one of the lower teams wants to run with less fuel to try to get an advantage and take the risk of running out if there's a GWC, then that's their choice. Conversely, for the teams that do run extra fuel it would give them an added cushion to turn it up a bit more at the end.
In reality it wouldn't be that much difference in fuel though - a GWC checkers necessarily means there are some safety car laps, where fuel would be saved. So you're really only talking about a couple of safery-car-laps' worth of fuel you would need extra.
Either of these are both viable strategies, but most importantly, are something that the teams can factor into their strategies accordingly, having some sort of knowledge about how the race is going to end.
I already read this morning that Merc is leaning toward dropping all their appeals and try and use the process to ensure that this kind of situation doesn't happen again, and that the rules and regulations are more tightly defined. If this is true, I'm all for it, and I'm sure they'll have unilateral support from all the other constructors, because what happened over the course of this entire season was a consistent joke.
At the end of the day, my personal opinion is that the right outcome occurred. They got everyone out of the way and let the two best drivers decide the title on the track. As someone who enjoys the sport, that's all you can ask for. Merc is going to say it wasn't fair, but they had the faster car and a 10 second gap, they screwed up by not pitting Hamilton, which is the exact same situation they benefitted from regarding Lando in Sochi. Their strategy backfired, it happens.
As an aside, by no means was I Team Max or Team Lewis this year, truth be told, I've thrown my support at McLaren, leaning toward Lando, but I am just a fan of good racing. I want to watch the best of the best push their vehicles to the limit and ride that razor's edge to eek out every second per lap. Watching Max, a driver who is well known for taking it to the limit (and often over it) come out on top over a driver like Lewis, who tends to play it a bit more safe and conservative, was great. That's not to take away from Lewis, but F1 has become far too predictable and routine over the years, and putting an aggressive talent like Max at the top hopefully encourages others to be a bit more aggressive in the future. A little bit of chaos and spice wouldn't be a bad thing for the future of the series.
Oh, it's gonna be a catty 4 months, and with the new chassis coming out it's gonna be better. I can't wait to inject S4 of DTS right into my veins. I'm really looking forward to the episodes about Haas & Aston Martin. The former being the shitshow that it is, the latter because they weren't nearly as competitive as I would have expected.
Merc has already lost their initial appeal. Not sure if they can take it higher than that and there's no way that F1 is going to do anything about it. Sadly, since it's owned by a media company the owners see this as fuel to the profit fire. That said, I agree with you about the FIA. Full stop, the whole organization structure needs to be revamped. I'm shocked that they don't have people in the booth just dreaming up possible scenarios and solutions in case something like the incident at the end pops up.
Merc was in a tough spot but as you said, they've got themselves to blame. Bottas just wasn't able to keep up, pit strategy was questionable at times throughout the season, etc.
Good on Max though. Kid worked his ass off and his persistence and determination paid off. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good and that was the case with the SC.
Kinda upset for Lando though. If I've got a driver I'm rooting for, it's him & McLaren. It's apparent now that Monza was more of a fluke for Danny Ric. He finished behind Norris in the overall, only had the 1 podium to Norris' 4 (who should have had at least 1 victory) and just isn't getting it. Maybe that changes with the new Chassis.
Next year is going to be interesting with the new chassis for sure, and the overall change in aero to allow for more underbody vs overbody downforce to limit dirty air and allow for closer racing.
I think the most overlooked change is the tires though. With the current tires, a good amount of the suspension is actually the spring in the rubber itself. With larger tires (ie less rubber), the teams have to completely re-design their suspensions, and be able to nail suspension setups for each track.
Norris had some absolute shit luck late in the season. But you can tell the talent is there. The only real mistake he made after Sochi was turn 1 at Brazil, everything else was just the car or tires failing him.
Give him a competitive car next year and he should rebound nicely. I also loved seeing Carlos rocket up the standings the last half the season. Its about time he broke out a bit, just wish it was still with McLaren.
Sainz might be my favorite on the grid, and I'm fairly indifferent towards Ferrari.
I've been really all over about a second driver/team to root for. Ricciardo caught my attention early (mainly due to his early focus on the Netflix show), and with the move to McLaren, I've been pulling for him a bit. Charles LeClerc as well, just how well he drove in a Sauber (now Alfa Romeo, I had to look that up). But I've really liked the competitiveness of Sainz. He's been outdriving LeClerc this year, despite being the veteran driver for the young talent of LeClerc.
Now if Haas can get off their ass with the new car, it might be nice to root for an American team, but I'm not optimistic. Besides, Schumacher I could root for, but hell no on Mazepin. He's right there with Stroll in my book, just there because of his daddy's money.
Definitely bad luck for the kid. He definitely has heaps of talent and hopefully McLaren has a good design for '22 and gives him a chance of doing well.
I truly wish that Carlos was still at McLaren instead of Ferrari, but you can't fault the kid for making the move...it is Ferrari after all. I just wish the bromance was still alive and well. I feel that with Norris and Sainz paired up McLaren could easily solidify #3 and depending on how well the car is, maybe be one of the front runners instead of "best of the rest".
I mean just because they aren't on the same team doesn't mean Carlando doesn't still exist. They did rent a house together for the week of the Brazilian GP.
Speaking of partying, anyone else see some of the video from the Merc afterparty? Toto and Bottas look to have gotten pretty schwastyfaced.
Grinned ear to ear seeing those. I mean, they did win WCC. That some serious bonus money for the whole team. Plus, with all the drama from that last race, that would be an epic party to blow off steam.
The bromance is absolutely there, but it would be ever more "awwww" if they were on the same team and wearing papaya together. I'm sure it would be better than the Lando/Danny duo.
I saw the clip of Toto crowdsurfing with a giant goofy grin on his face. Yea, they lost the WDC, but the WCC is not a bad consolation prize.
You could probably add failing to listen to his team telling him to come in for rain tires (tyres?) in whichever race that was. Or was that before Sochi?
That was Sochi
Ah, duh. Thanks.
I'm sure after a few years, I'll recognize tracks at a glance, but for the most part, they're still a bit of a blur, save for a corner or straight here and there.
Honestly, if you are into gaming at all, I suggest getting F1 2021. Has all the tracks, (though, it doesn't have the recent updates to Abu Dhabi) so you are able to quickly get used to how each one looks, but if you run through a few seasons, it does help you appreciate just how balls to the wall these drivers are able to push their machines. Even knowing sim racing is only scratching the surface on how it really is to drive a track, you still get a real good idea of just how quickly they have to react to everything, especially in some of those street circuits.
Plus, it also helps you memorize all the zones and corners of each track, so when you're watching you have a pretty good idea of where they are on the track. Before I started playing, I was completely lost on most circuits.
I really like Forza Motorsport for this. It's got some of the tracks, but not all of them. What's cool is you can drive the course in a street car, then switch to an F1 car and really see how much faster they are going. Personally I prefer the driving dynamics in Forza to F1, but that's just personal preference probably.
I race 2021 on my simulator. Tried driving it without all of the drivers aids. Quickly found out that I am not going to have a second career as an F1 driver. This was the first F1 series game that I have played. Heard that the 2019 version is possibly the best due to being able to drive all of the older F1 cars.
What's your setup?
Can't speak for him but I can share mine...
Thrustmaster T-300RS GT edition base, wheels, and pedals
Next level F-GT Lite chair and pedal mount.
Decently sized, plenty sturdy enough, and folds away to a small enough size to put into a closet if you need the space.
These two?
https://smile.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-T300-RS-Racing-Wheel-PlayStation/d...
https://smile.amazon.com/Level-Racing-Formula-Foldable-Simulator-Cockpit...
Well, there goes any thought of getting into a racing sim. $1,000 is a bit above my threshold.
If any of you have some more entry-level option suggestions, though, I'm all ears.
I've had my G29 for years. It is one of the cheapest force feedback wheels (which is key for feeling how the car is behaving). You can add on a standalone shifter later if you want, but just using the wheel and paddles is fine.
I played with it mounted to a desk (and at one point in college, a bar stool) for a few years before I bought my actual rig. So you can get started around $300 + whatever game you want + the console/PC.
I've had nothing but good luck out of my G29. Hard to beat for the price and features for an entry level wheel.
Ther T-300RS was a hair under $400 when I got mine. Few months later got the chair for about $250. The prices you're seeing now are absolutely ridiculous.
Hell, for that price, I'd say just save up a bit more and buy the CSL DD (XBox/PC) or DD Pro (PS/PC) from Fanatec. And if you buy the DD Pro and get something like the McLaren wheel, you can have it work on PS, PC, and XBox, which ends up making it somewhat reasonable given you'd otherwise need 2 entire sets.
So for alternate suggestions, try these:
Thrustmaster T-300 RS with 2 pedals - Currently $336
Thrustmaster T248 - Brand new built for PS5. Currently $399
Logitec G923 - Currently $399
Logitech G29 - As low as $275 on Amazon
Keep in mind, all of those options come with the base, wheel, and pedals. The T-300RS allows you to swap out wheels if you get another (like their Formula-style) while the others are one piece. Also, all of these options have force feedback, which gives resistance while you drive and helps you really know when you're at the edge of grip while driving. There are other options out there without FFB, but I'm not sure I'd recommend if you can afford the above.
As for a seat, there are plenty of other options you can do if you're looking to start out. Most basic is to just buy a desk clamp for whatever base you get and run it that way. There are other options to look at like stands that you can attach the wheel and pedals to, but not include a chair. Keep in mind, one of the benefits of getting the chair/mount combination is that its a bit more rigid, so you won't necessarily be fighting a stand that's looking to tip over when you're turning the wheel. If you're looking for the seat/mount combo you could look at the Playseat Challenge at $250 as the cheapest good option to get. The big difference between that and the NextLevel that I have is that the NL is a bit bigger, and has mounts for a manual shifter if you get one.
Hope that helps.
Fuck...my wife is gonna hate you guys...
Build a nice doghouse (mancave) That's where I keep the shit my wife hates.
Pretty basic. Bought a base with a racing seat that's adjustable from Amazon. Logitech G29 and short throw shifter. Looking to add a handbrake. Tons of fun for around 7-800 dollars. I went with the G29 because It gave me the PS4 and PC compatibility. I like both Gran Turismo and Forza. Along the way I've found NASCAR Heat dirt track racing and now F1. Need to get a new gaming PC laptop though. Mine is getting old. Base has small wheels under pedals to move it out of the way when needed. Doesn't fold up though.
Before I got my setup I had started turning some assists off with a controller. First laps with the wheel and oh boy I had to turn them all back on. Slowly turning them off as I get used to it.
That said, I started playing a lot of GT Sport and going back to F1 is... Rough. The FFB on GTS is much more in depth and strong so when you come back the F1 cars just feel too light. Might have to crank up the settings to compensate, because it's spinout city after getting used to GTS.
Also, the older vehicles are on F1 2020, which were fun to drive, but I think there were older and alternate track layouts in 2019. I hope they bring it all back in 2022.
Me too. I love the old F1 history. It would be awesome for them to bring the old cars back. I had same issue with F1 feeling too light. There are a bunch of different setups on YouTube if you're interested.
Where do people go for decent F1 news/analysis? I've been living off the official F1 page this year, and really need to branch out and find some other good sources.
YouTube has a surprising amount. The F1 account pumps out content, especially during race weeks.
I also follow r/formula1 on Reddit, (though, I try to stay away from the comments), and followed a few teams on Twitter. By following the teams themselves, it tends to bring in a lot of reporters and media outlets that they follow while not bringing in a lot of the noise from bickering fans.
The F1 channel on YT has a surprisingly large amount of content, as do the individual team's channels. Alum07 hit on /r/formula1, but as he alluded to, the comment sections can get very catty/spicy. They're full on in meltdown mode right now after yesterday.
I mean its just overwhelmingly British in there with a heavy slant toward Lewis and Merc. The conspiracy theories and armchair legal experts have been running overtime since the race, and....
Look, I'm a sucker for watching a raging fire burn, I've caught myself looking on with devilish grin from time to time the past 24 hours.
Yeah, r/formula1 does lean heavy Hamilton/Merc, but r/formuladank has (some) better memes, and leans Verstappen/Red Bull. I've found some insightful things on r/F1Technical.
Hoping to find some good long-form news/analysis, though. I'm much more of a reader (open in new tab, read when I can find the time) than a video-watcher, though I have been pulled into F1's youtube channel in the past 30 hours or so.
I'll have to look at /r/formuladank. I need me some F1 memes
The F1 sub reddit is actually pretty good. There's the obvious Lewis v Max stans, but it's a great source for all things going on in the F1 world.
Driver61 on youtube gives great impartial analysis for some of the major things that happen in races.
If you want to get technical, ChainBear on YT is great as well.
I only go to Autosport. Actual journalism, very little bias that I've ever picked up on. It's the only news service subscription I actually pay for.
AMUS (when translated, unless you are fluent in German) is top notch.
So I am a huge Kimi fan and I am sad to see him leave the sport after 20 years.
For those of you new to F1, here is a collection of some of Kimi's best radio..
you will have to click on it and watch it on youtube.
This is just pathetic.
Yeah that sucks but not all that surprising. It's like what Cubs fans did to that Bartman guy after that foul ball.
They could start with going after Murdoch and the Daily Mail first for stoking those fires
And yeah, he's getting bombarded with death threats from Brits.
Murdoch is a cancer on this planet.
Sounds like Merc have dropped all appeals and there is no threat of legal action stripping the WDC away from Max this winter. Which is good, that would be a disaster for F1.
Now, just have all the constructors band together and get the shitshow that is Race Control in line going forward.
Hopefully. Apparently there is already a commission set up to investigate how to improve going forward, with teams/drivers invited to join.
As well, we don't know what kind of talks or agreements between Merc and the FIA were had or made that may have led to Merc dropping the appeal (besides the futility of really having no real independent recourse).
Article on formula1.com quotes Wolfe saying that the formation of the commission is why the appeal was dropped.
'It's nothing to do with Max' – Wolff on Mercedes' protests, why they didn't appeal, and why Hamilton will come back stronger in 2022
Apparently both Wolfe and Hamilton skipping the FIA banquet today where they do all the awards for the year. I think Wolfe is sending Allison in his place to accept the constructors trophy.
Not sure how I feel about that, but I for sure feel that Lewis had the title taken from him by the stewards. I am also not a fan of Max. It just feels like them not showing up to the awards ceremony is poor sportsmanship.
The stewards decisions were pretty even over the course of the year (a lot bad for Max as well early), I certainly don't think they stole it from Lewis. RB strategy was better at the end with the slower car. Mercedes was in a pickle. I am not convinced the merc engine was legal, given the engines this year were supposed to be frozen but somehow hamilton got a rocketship for the last 4 races. I think Max had a better year, and if you take away his fluke tire at Baku and bottas taking him out of hungary, it wouldnt have mattered what lewis did in abu dhabi.
I'd agree that the Merc come-on in the last couple of races is a bit weird. The explanations I've seen is they finally figured out their aero issues from earlier in the year and that's what came them the edge, however it's still strange how it got SOOOO much faster, especially in Brazil where he was passing cars like they were standing still.
So, technically it's the same engine specs. The engine freeze is in place until 2026 IIRC. What they are allowed to do is make reliability upgrades.
What Merc did is kinda genius, but also flirting with the rules intent, but this is F1. So Merc realized that they have the most powerful engine, but it degrades very fast. If they only stuck with the originally allowed 3 engines, they would not have had the pace to keep up in the last quarter of the season. Honda, slightly less power, WAY more durable. So what Merc did was throw test engines on Bottas' car for a good portion of the season. Why? Because they needed to figure out just how hard you could run the engine, with what mapping, how many races, and what's the failure. Collect the real world data, apply those reliability upgrades on Lewis' engine, and take the penalties as they come.
Remember, Merc used to have "party mode" engine maps last season to almost guarantee pole position in quali. FIA then said that was not allowed and all engine maps in quali must also be available in the race. So what Merc did is essentially figure out how to run party mode on their engines for multiple races.
So technically the same engine, but upgraded for reliability to run harder for longer.
Brazil just so happens to be one of the best tracks for straight overtakes, plus Lewis was driving like a man possessed, along with the fresh engine compared to everyone else's old ones, made it all look very dramatic.
Yeah... I get that Merc is upset, I would be as well had it happened to me, but at a certain point they're throwing a temper tantrum because things didn't go their way in the end. Its not like they had the perfect season where it got stripped from them late, if you look at the raw numbers, Max dominated Lewis over the course of the season, only to have a few incidents involving Merc cars knocking him out of a race getting them back into it. And even then, Lewis would have won the WDC had he not cooked his brakes in Baku.
There was a lot of whining this season. Seemed like every time Lewis was in a battle this year, he was constantly on the radio complaining about the driving style of everyone around him, as if they should all just get out of the way because it was Lewis behind them. And then the constant bickering with Toto and Horner on the phone with Masi every single race. It just got old.
And after a season of endless whining to have Merc bail on the end of season awards gala? Yeah, you're right, its very poor sportsmanship. I saw they even had someone rent a video board on a truck with "WE STAND WITH HAMILTON" or something like that parked right out in front of the venue last night. Say what you want about how the FIA handled the end of the race, I'd say the over the top reaction by the team and supporters is a little more problematic.
Agreed. Merc has basically decided to behave like a child because their domination has finally come to an end. The fact that both Toto & Hamilton didn't go to the awards is poor form. Max dominated this year and as you noted, there always seemed to be a Merc involved when he got fucked over.
another drive to survive question, just finished season 2 - why is Red Bull allowed to own two teams? and they can just switch drivers mid season between their two teams? Also interesting to me that there is one better team(Red Bull), and one not as good team(Torro Rosso). It's like if the Jaguars were a feeder team to the Patriots
Why wouldn't they be? If they're willing to put up the cash then by all means.
Technically they're sister teams according to Marko, but it's very clear that RB is the Varsity and AT is the JV squad. That said, Gasly did really well following the shenanigans in '20 and everyone thinks that Yuki will have a much better Year 2.
I mean they financially back both teams, but they're run independently of each other. They each have their own Team Principals (Horner for RBR and French Toast for AT). And as was said before, Alpha Tauri (fka Toro Rosso) is now acting as a sister team to RBR, and not a junior squad. To further drive this home, RBR has their HQ in England where AT has their HQ in Italy.
They might flip drivers between each other, but that's no different than Merc loaning Russell over to Williams or Ferrari loaning Leclerc to Alpha Romero and Mick Schumacher to Haas with understanding that they can be called to the main team if and when needed (such as Russell filling in for Lewis in 2020).
LOL @ French Toast (Franz Tost for those uninitiated)
To add on to what Alum07 said here, RB isn't the only one with a sister team or a close relationship (usually due to someone supplying engines to someone else).
Ferrari -> Alfa Romeo
Alfa Romeo was actually a sponsor of Ferrari until 2018, when they wanted their own team, so became title sponsor for Sauber (now Alfa Romeo). Ferrari supplies engines and is often a factor for driver contracts; you'll find Ferrari young driver program members end up here from time-to-time.
Ferrari -> Haas
The Haas is basically an off-the-shelf Ferrari. Haas' plan has always been to build the cheapest car, and that means buying every part it can from someone else instead of making it in house. Ferrari supplies engines and might have some sway over driver contracts (most obviously with Mick).
Red Bull -> AlphaTauri
Undoubtedly the closest relationship between teams. Drivers at both teams often come through the Red Bull young driver program, and as you've seen, swap around a lot as if AT is the JV squad.
Mercedes -> Aston Martin
Merc supplies the engines, and as we know from the investigations also supplies other information (brake duct designs). This relationship might drift a bit further apart now that Aston is vying for the top instead of staying in the midfield.
Mercedes -> McLaren
Again, Merc is an engine supplier. Otherwise it doesn't appear to be a particularly close relationship.
Mercedes -> Williams
If you had to say who was the Merc JV squad, it'd probably be Williams. Williams has been the landing spot for some drivers that Mercedes wanted to keep nearby but didn't have a seat for (Russell), and gets poached whenever Mercedes does have an opening.
Mercedes -> Alpine
Ocon is a former young driver for Merc, and is managed by Toto, who got him the seat at Alpine after spending a year as a Mercedes reserve driver. That appears to be the extent of the relationship, as Alpine manufactures its own engines.
These relationships change from time to time, and occasionally get complicated (Albon going to Williams, but only after Mercedes told Williams it was okay if Albon signed some additional legal documents). This is my personal opinion of where things stand right now, some might disagree, but a lot of the details about how close teams are is only known behind closed doors.
It is odd, but not entirely unheard of. As mentioned above, Works teams have longstanding relationships with smaller teams all the time.
It's worth noting that even though Red Bull own TR/AT, the rules are quite prohibitive in what information and development they share. Essentially, they are funded from the same place, but operate almost entirely with different engineers, HQ's, etc. They must independently develop a good deal of their car, and can share certain allowed parts (which is the same for every team). It's really only a driver talent pool that they share, with the more experienced/better drivers at RB and the junior drivers at TR/AT. Up until recently, RBR had a MUCH larger budget. But now with the cost cap, it's going to be interesting to see if the gap between the two gets bigger or smaller.
There is a $200mil entry fee for a brand new team in F1, so if a company can pony up that cash, more power to them. In this case RB bought Jaguar Racing. Once it became successful, they needed a way to showcase junior talent in F1, so they then bought Minardi.
Does this apply to parts >2 years old? Can Haas, for example, buy every part of the 2019 Ferrari, or is there still a prohibition on certain items?
No, certain items, called Listed Team Components (LTC) MUST be designed and manufactured by the team itself. There are other classifications of components all defined in the technical regs. If you're interested, they are here . Article 17.3 defines the components classifications, then in the appendix the components list and their associated classification.
Gotcha. So the following, which are LTCs, must be designed in-house:
Survival Cell, Front Impact Structure, Aero Components, Plank Assembly, Wheel Drum, Fuel Bladder, Heat Exchanger
Everything else can be purchased, which seems like... well, a lot. Especially considering the regs explicitly allow you to crib off the aero of other teams (see: Haas body compared to Ferrari body).
Thanks for the explanation and the great info!
There's always going to be copying to some extent. Teams do have to provide detailed records of independent development though. Usually the copying team is at a severe detriment because they don't understand the design philosophy as well. ie Haas and Ferrari, and AM and Merc.
Haas is actually becoming the new sister/junior team instead of Alfa. Ferrari gave them engineers to aid in developing their new facilities. So things still get a bit murky lol
Appreciate the explanations y'all gave for an F1 noob like me! Just started watchign season 3, and the Racing Pointe story line is pretty juicy so far!
Apparently the wording of the new regs have closed the loop RP used to create the pink Mercedes, so we'll see how 2022 shapes up.
Happy to provide info though! DTS actually got me back into the sport after a long hiatus. Now I'm in far too deep lol. It's my low key obsession much to my wife's dismay.
Daytona 500 is 6 weeks from today. Just slinging that out there.
I needed this reminder. Light at the end of the tunnel.
Only 20 days til 24 Hours of Daytona...