Y'all seen this yet? Some interesting info within. A bombshell about Fu not taking a job elsewhere too.
Definitely shows commitment by JHAM and Fuente.
Hokie Nation let's run this back right.Idk if the order will be right but here's Part 1 pic.twitter.com/VsqIFi3Dgx— Justin Hamilton (@coach_ham) July 2, 2021
Part 2. Always love ✊🏽✊🏽✊🏽 pic.twitter.com/XEkMvedmBE— Justin Hamilton (@coach_ham) July 2, 2021
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Interesting statement and I'm not sure how I feel about it yet. Did this come out of nowhere or did I miss something that happened recently on Twitter?
He was arguing with some trolls about Frank's later years
He did a twitter poll about a new hashtag, and predictably, it turned into a lot of fans venting frustration at the state of the program
Thanks for the hashtag update. I didn't see that tweet. After digesting for a few minutes it comes across as really defensive. Win. Just Win. That is also he and CF need to do. The defensiveness is not helping their cause and makes them seem really desperate (they are), but the desperate look does not inspire confidence in me and I'm guessing the rest of the fan base.
You and me both. Defensiveness like this before we even begin preseason practice? Leads me to believe they don't have the faith this team can perform at a level that shuts the critics up.
Agreed! After reading his posts, I'm even more worried about this season. I think his intentions were good, but IMO this isn't a good look. We don't need excuses and blaming the fan base. We need results on the field.
And really, at the end of the day I'm wondering why he even bothered to respond. I mean, its not like we give enough money for our opinions to be heard.........
Agreed. Reeks of panic- something Frank never did on a macro scale. We got crushed by LSU, then reeled of 10 straight for example. We lost several times to ECU and bounced back. J Ham should have learned from his old coach- never get too high or low- focus on the next task, trust your system and coaching.
But definitely something he did on a micro scale, from time to time (e.g. fake kicks/punts in big/bowl games).
Something I am grateful for during my time at Tech '04-'09, while there were the heartbreaking defeats, there were the equalizing resilient comebacks....
J Ham should have learned from his old coach- never get too high or low- focus on the next task, trust your system and coaching.
Isn't that exactly what his point is though? At least that's how I read it...
Im not so sure I had the same take-away. It definitely acknowledges that the fan-base is divided, which is no secret, but I read it as more of rallying cry than a "back off we're doing our best here". The latter would be defensive and probably not a useful message though, if it were the case.
I also appreciated the insight Jham provided on leadership qualities, and I think it speaks volumes that one of Fuente's subordinates would take time to publicly make such insightful and intentional remarks. Jham is basically saying he would do anything for VT no matter who the HC was, but that in his opinion, we've got a pretty special guy at HC right now who represents the values and traditions that we all think make VT unique/special.
Not sure that's a bombshell, pretty sure that's the Baylor opening?
I think the potential "bombshell" part is that JHam makes it out to sound like Fu turned down a pretty sweet deal
This. I knew he'd "flirted with" Baylor but I never knew offers were made and Fu turned them down and whatnot.
Ah, gotcha.
I always assumed that it got a lot further than Fu/VT admitted.
Basically confirms that he turned down the Baylor job, as had been alluded to previously.
At a certain point, I'm tired of the defensive circling of the wagons. I really don't care what is going on behind the scenes, I just want the team to win. If you don't win, this is all just noise.
Agreed. I'm tired of circling the wagons and words. The staff will be judged on the product they put on the field, in wins and losses. This has the feeling of damage control before the season even begins.
Justin was making these points expecting the same level of cushion from the fan base that he gives to Liberty WRs on fourth and long at the end of the game.
i mean ya winning is great and makes everyone happier, but these are still humans. and a lot of people *looks around the internet room* say things about the coaches and players they absolutely wouldn't say in person.
good for j-ham, don't think it reflects poorly on the team or how the coaches view the way the season is going to play out. its been a long 18 months for nearly everyone and everyone has a final straw; actually glad for him to put his name on it rather than sit behind an alias on an internet forum
Agreed. I feel like no matter what anyone in the athletic department says, there's a huge contingent of "not a good look..." To whom? Who are you worried about? He's saying it to Hokie Nation. If you want to think it's a bad look, then look in the mirror. He just humanized himself and solidified that he IS a Hokie. If that is something you think is a bad look, then I don't know what to tell you. It hit me in the feels, and I'm not ashamed to say it. Good on ya JHam.
right, there is no winning no matter the coaches do
*people come to TKP to read about Hokies football*
*VT coach posts on his personal account about hokies football*
VT fans: actually no thank you- more sterilized and hyper-edited videos, please. winning is all that matters
It's weird how Darryl Tapp and Justin Hamilton have both defended Fuente, and so many people view it as defensive. Tapp in particular now that he's gone doesn't have a major incentive to stay quiet if he thought Fuente was the wrong man for the job.
Maybe it's defensive, maybe it's Justin Hamilton has been exposed to a side of the fan base that he didn't truly know existed, and it hurts him. To see a community that he really thinks saved him and made him who he is to constantly bicker about pointless shit.
I don't think they're allowed to do any major coaching at the moment, and I believe the NCAA is back in a normally scheduled dead period for recruiting... I'm sure there is something going on behind the scenes, but it's not like he doesn't have time to engage with fans. The only problem I have is people thinking that because they can just spout whatever shit is in their head means everyone has to agree with it, and for J-Ham to not realize that Twitter isn't real life.
A ton of people- many on this board- defend Fuente- on everything- transfers, losing to Liberty and ODU, etc. My question to J Ham is when do we start winning? If recruiting rankings, transfers, staff attrition, etc etc etc are NBD, when do we beat Wake Forest and Pitt?
who on this board defends Fuente on everything?
I guess I do? And that's fine, anyone is free to disagree. I just don't like bad arguments and it seems like everything is boiled down to a binary choice - like basically since Ryan Willis took over for a hurt Josh Jackson you're either pro or anti-Fuente (or getting drowned out in the middle) - which I find to generally be an oversimplification and bullshit.
The fact of the matter, I thought 2020 was a make-or-break year BEFORE the pandemic started, and then I kinda thought the whole thing was an exercise in who can have the most timely COVID breakout. If they fired him afterward, cool - let's see what's next. If not, I get the budgetary realities of that too. I know this is crazy but you can do nuance on the internet.
Love the anecdotes he gave on coach Fuente. Just goes to show you how much work goes on behind the scenes and isn't discussed by the talking Twitterheads glued to their phones all day haha.
He and Coach Ham are true Hokies in my book! Really hope he gets this ship turned around and has a great career here.
I just look at all of this and think "Twitter is such a cancer."
Man, I would never advocate for exposing yourself on social media. But you have believe that was a heart felt, considered, and deliberate response from a man who is very passionate and devoted to his school and his team. It is easy to pick apart the why and how he says what he says (because, it's the internet), but I cannot read it any other way. As he says, it may sound a little self serving, but I will taka coach that is passionate about his school and his organization any day.
This further solidifies my love for JHam. He's got everything you'd want in a personality for our HC. I really hope we get things back on track this year and whenever Fuente moves on, JHam is in position to become the head whistle. Go Hokies!
There so much to unpack here. I applaud J-Ham for trying to unify the fan base and move forward. No one can deny his love of VT, but unfortunately he's not the head coach so his words have less weight. The sentiment needs to come from Fuente, and it needed to come years ago.
I've come to terms with never getting that type of engagement from Fuente. Maybe its just that he's had way to much internal house cleaning to take care of that he legitimately hasn't had the energy for outside engagement. But from what we have seen and just seen from JHam, I dont think we'll ever know (and maybe we shouldn't).
I saw the original JHam response to the twitter poll comments and thought it was a bad look and that he shouldn't have engaged. However, I thought his followup today was genuine and very well thought out. I don't read anything leading me to believe he feels our team is inadequate or cannot win, he literally says give us a season to prove it. Put up or shutup. Hopefully they put up, because if Whit has to make the call I don't believe anyone on our current coaching staff will be retained by next HC.
kudos to jham for putting himself out there. The whole time I read it, all I could think was "lmao imagine if corny tried something like this?"
And I think you nailed the core problem: JHam gets a pass not because of his accomplishments as a DC under Fuente. JHam gets to say this BECAUSE he can call on the heritage of the program. He was part of that winning heritage. Fuente/Cornelson do NOT get to lean on that credibility. They haven't earned it yet. And earn it they must if they want the fanbase to embrance them.
Faith is belief in the absence of proof. The VT fanbase no longer has faith in Fuente. That goodwill is gone. He must prove himself.
oh please make this part of 'Making Corn more available to the media'. Twitter roast of Corn. I did see someone tweet a reply "This you?" of the questionable no coverage call late in the Liberty game that essentially lost the game directly to JHam audible ooof
It's because JHam is indisputably a lifelong Hokie by virtue of being a former player. He gets a pass no matter what happens, because he was one of us already.
JHAM for Head coach!!!!!
JHam did a solid for our boy Fuente. It was a righteous tweet. But the bottom line is Fuente gets $$4 milllion reasons to right the ship, so its time to put up or stop taking big money for 6 win seasons.
Excuses are light assholes, and everybody has one. And Frankly, it don't matter what everyone thinks of Frank, Bud or anyone else before him.
Hehe light assholes
I get it. I bleach too.
Why is it so hard for this coaching staff to acknowledge fan frustration and take ownership to correct the source of it? Instead of constantly blaming fans just say "I know there are fans frustrated by the product on the field, and it is on us to build a better product."
My former company used to preach that a successful organization needed inspiring leaders. I feel that the majority of our current regime are not, in fact, inspiring leaders. At least when it comes to fan engagement.
I never really thought of Frank and Co. as doing much on fan engagement. Maybe I just didn't notice it, but they always seemed to be players first and let the fans enjoy the product on the field.
It is hard to compare because of the rise in social media. But engagement doesn't have to be press conferences or funny social media posts. It can be something as simple as televising a spring game or allowing access during practices. There are many little things CF and team can do to increase engagement. I'm not sure I've see a single one implemented successfully.
For me it was blaming players for losses. I don't care who misses blocks or assignments, it is ultimately the coaches job to take responsibility for recruiting, game management, preparation, adjustments, etc. You just don't blame the kids. Don't do it.
That coupled with him appearing to push certain people like Dragon out of the program and others like Jerod almost fleeing gave me the impression he had an ego and wasn't willing to work with his kids. It's acceptable if your a winning machine, but the results aren't there yet.
The man is telling you that your impression is wrong and yet you are still putting all the weight of your opinion on your impression. This whole program has to own up to the win loss record, but the DC is telling you Fuente the man will do anything for his players. I think it is worth listening. If Fuente loses his job it will be for production, not management of the players. If management was the issue, I just don't think Whit hitches his wagon to this team of coaches when he had every other reason to blow it up.
Unclear how "the defense I'm in charge of coordinating has to be better" is in any way failure to take ownership.
Exactly. He has come out and said multiple times he has to do better. It is a fact that not everyone in the fanbase will be happy. The staff stays quiet and people bitch. Coaches start interacting and opening up to the fans and people bitch. Fuente has had his fuck ups but everyone does. I feel like he has assembled a good, young staff that is truly excited to be here. I am throwing most of last year out of the window because there was so much out of everyone's control to deal with. I am stoked for 2022 and personally love JHam interacting with people.
I have heard them say this literally dozens of times. And take ownership to correct it?? What do you think they are doing?? Maybe they are ultimately successful, maybe not but they are working their asses off trying.
As an outside observer of this, since I don't have twitter, why is a Coordinator leading a PR campaign for the football team alone? Why don't we have a PR team to do these things? I just don't understand how VT Athletics haven't figured this one out in 5 years.
FTFY
The issues seem to be isolated to the football program. Basketball, Softball, wrestling, etc are doing just fine with their public personas and social media presence.
I think he was just trying to have some fun on Twitter, which is fine.
Where he went wrong was engaging with a few trolls, which never ends well.
Have you met Pete Morris?
Our fan base literally begs for online interaction, gets it, and immediately says just shut up and win. Haha y'all stay undefeated man
We asked for interaction. Public excuses and blaming the fans is not exactly what most of the fan base meant by interaction.
It all started with him doing a fan poll trying to have fun with a team hashtag and only we could ruin that
Why did he start the hashtag convo? Shouldn't that come from a well oiled PR/Social Media team? To me this is further evidence that the current staff isn't up to managing a real P5 program. The coaches should be concentrating on coaching tasks. They should have people for this. Everyone else does (or they use social media correctly), why can't we have nice things?
In two comments you went from 1) we want interaction not being insulted to 2) why did he even try to interact with us...
Yup. Both can be true at the same time. IMO a competent Social Media team should be running the show. If the coaches are going to attempt it, they should do it well and without insulting the folks that fund the program. Social media is not hard if you have the right people in place.
You guys are cracking me up. I don't give a rats ass about damn turkey legs, but FFS follow the rules and don't downvote when people say things we've all be posting about for at least 2 years. I see this happen all the time (mostly to others) and it really pisses me off. Don't like a few negative posters about a certain topic? That's okay. But follow the rules and hope for a winning season next year so that people's panties start to un-bunch.
Or a member of the coaching staff could make a fairly benign 'hey let's clean the slate for this season and everyone get together and pull the rope as one Hokie Nation' type rah rah speech and we'll still have people complain about it.
Why even try at some point when a segment of the 'fanbase' is going to bitch no matter what? Either stuff is too polished because it is by a social media team with the coaches holding the fans at arms length. Or it is going to be too unpolished because the coaches are engaging directly.
Oh I do love a good 'True Hokie' debate
I don't think it's gatekeeping or "no true scotsman" fallacy, as much as it is a simple choice between (a) doing what you want to do and people are upset or (b) doing what you don't want to do and people are upset. people are gonna be upset either way, might as well go with your gut.
Just sounds like JHam is trying to interact and have fun with the fans. Something a lot of people have been begging for (not walling up the program). I would say he's best suited of all of the coaches to interact based on what I know about Justin.
Again, I read this as he LOVES this program and will defend it til the end. He's passionate. If nothing else, I can guarantee the players love this man to death.
There's a lot of generalization happening here.
pots, kettles, etc etc
Feel free to elaborate here on how I'm being hypocriticalEdit: Misunderstanding
i actually agree with you, which probably isn't clear
You know, when I first posted this I probably would have agreed with you, but as more people comment i think it's aged even better.
Yeah, I'd buy that too. I think your original statement was pretty on the money, but it applied to a small minority of the fanbase. I wasn't terribly clear about that.
This kinda confirmed my priors, fuente is the type of man I want leading our program but not sure he has the skillset to get us to the places we want to go
I haven't posted anything in a very long time, but this is the best take on this thread in my eyes. None of us can really grasp all of what happens behind closed doors and within each player's lives and families. None of us are happy with the lack of success (especially compared to when I went to school 04-08), but I do believe when it comes to caring for his players and coaching staff Fuente is cut from the same cloth as Beamer which keeps many people behind him but the winning has kept equally as many people not in his corner. I do not blame anyone for critiquing the on field results, odd fan engagement (sometimes too little, sometimes too much, some reactive while other genuine - truly all over the place). In the end, when I read stories about who Fuente is, I like him and want the best for him with our team, when I watch the game, its hard not to want someone else.
It feels like this heart felt appeal to the fanbase indicates how dire the situation is with the football program. The division that Beamer was worried about has happened and half the fanbase doesn't want to support a sinking ship/coaching staff.
I have no doubt that the staff are busting their butts to be successful and win. But if it is this hard to sell the momentum of the program to the fans, how hard is it to sell it to the recruits that can right the ship. Hamilton doesn't want the ship to sink on his watch.
However, critics of the coaching staff worry that the longer we wait to clean house, the more we fall behind in the ACC (UNC, Georgia Tech).
As a fan, it is hard to know whether we are on the brink of success or sustained mediocrity.
"As a fan, it is hard to know whether we are on the brink of success or sustained mediocrity."
Incredibly well said.
If you have to ask
Then you are acknowledging that a fan perspective from the outside is limited and not infallible.
A lot of expert opinions on here, recognizing fans will never know the whole story seems rational.
I would certainly put myself in the Fuente Critic basket, but there's a separation between not caring for Fuente as a HC and thinking he is a bad person.
I'm sure he took this job with the best of intentions and full motivation. I'm sure he cares about his players and coaches. I don't think effort is the problem...its the execution that's lacking.
Hell, I don't even mind that he quite clearly was very interested in the Baylor job..its his right to put he and his family in the best situation for themselves. It's how it was done that was problematic...so late as to leave VT totally up the creek in a HC search and trying to be secretive only to get outed by message boards (believe Baylor 247 was the 1st). Then, rather than even attempting to be stand up about it, taking a all-smiles selfie with the Staff and "back to work," like nothing ever happened. It's disingenuous.
Ultimately, I think Fuente is a perfectly decent guy and an average CFB coach. Culturally, he has not fit well at VT and I think that has negatively affected the Program. I don't think that its fixable at this point.
And while JH's post is clearly heartfelt, I don't think many of us had any doubt that he was, is, and will always be 100% Hokie. It's appreciated, but like Joe said above, something like this would have meant so much more coming directly from Fuente. It seems like belated damage control at this point.
I am glad we are giving Fuente more than the typical 3-5 years and out that schools do nowadays. Did everyone forget how long it took Beamer to get this thing going? I want to be the school that gives people chances and hopefully attracts the rare talent that just needs a chance.
Schools probably shouldn't be so quick to fire coaches, but Beamer took over a program with sanctions. Fuente took over a program with several NFL draft picks including two first round picks and has let the entire program go to shit.
and promptly won 10 games and nearly upset eventual National Champs Clemson.
Let's not fool ourselves that Fuente walked into a great situation. Beamer wasn't following a legend either or unrealistic fan expectations, but I guess it's a matter of perspective.
He basically announced off the top in the original poll tweet that he was going to argue with negative fans. He invited it. Just pointing that out because some people seem to be acting like he saw the negative replies and snapped or "got defensive" about criticism. Not saying it was a good idea but he literally asked for it and announced he was going to do it before anyone else even tweeted at him.
Almost like he had the whole notes app message prepared in advance and was just baiting people to give him a reason to post it.
I have to admit there is a part of me that sees people super close to the situation like Whit Babcock and Justin Hamilton, both of whom have not only stuck up for Fuente but done so emphatically and against all logic in above and beyond ways, that makes me want to believe keeping him has been the right move all along and there really is something good here that the rest of us are incapable of seeing. That's really the only thing I can point to for hope because in every other conceivable way he is a coach who should have been canned in December.
No big fan of Twitter, here, and no huge supporter of CJF; but generally impressed by JHam. I gotta stand with JHam and in turn CJF in the context of this non-story. This is immaterial noise, and we need to win football games. Until the time comes for VT to play and hopefully win games, let's get back to the positive recruiting run that we seem to be on.
I give him props for putting his name on how he feels about the program and the fan base. I agree with what other have said here that he might be one of the fees on the staff that could say something like this.
Honestly, it's exhausting how all over the place the fan base is nowadays. Some complain when the staff doesn't engage the fans, then some complain when they do. I do agree that winning will solve most of these problems, but who knows if we will get back to that ACC Championship level. So for my part I'm going to try to stay positive...but come this season I'll probably eat my words lol.
Lol some people really saw this and said "that means the team will be bad this year"
Rule #1: Never Tweet.
Fuente is a Good Guy, maybe Good Guy of the Year every year. Probably means he should be fired. But, just because he loses doesn't mean he's no a Good Guy.
I just do not see any reason for anything Jham did in this Twitter rant to spiral into fans being more mad. I wish we could get to a place where coaches listen to the fans AND the fans listen to the coaches. Both sides have failed.
Fair points all around. It did seem like a vocal minority of folks who gave him hell for his initial poll though.
Though, I also think it's also fair to note Fuente put a wall up between the program and the fans.
Exactly. The staff appears to be indicating that they are hearing fans. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been an uptick in interviews and so-called content being released. But, I dont think they are actually listening. We are saying that we want to see football content. Whatever amount of safety netting the staff feels they get by walling off practice and scrimmages just isnt worth the reduction in enthusiasm from the fanbase.
On the other hand, I think we as fans need to listen when the coaches are saying things like the funding needs bumps and this staff is very focused on doing things the right way for players. There has been progress in this department.
I am hoping this season exceeds expectations. I believe the staff is learning from past mistakes and making progress, although not as quickly as any fan would like. I would much prefer continued improvement than having to hit the abort button and start a whole new learning curve. I am skeptical it can actually happen, but it is my preference.
Would you believe there are Clemson and Alabama fans out there not happy about their program? Well there are...and we know how good those programs are.
I point this out because most will say this will stop when we start winning. I say there will always be pessimist!
JHam obviously loves Tech. I appreciate that a coach is trying to reach out and engage fans and try to reunite a fractured fanbase. It's disappointing that it's not the head coach. I'm not sure if JHam really understands that his words just aren't going to be enough to do what he wants to do. The fracturing fan base isn't about any individual coaches or players. Frank knew this. He knew that the impending chasm wasn't going to be about him. It's about the losses. Both the frequency and also the way in which they happen (and to whom). Frank built this program. And in so doing he spoiled its fans. We're spoiled. We have high expectations and when they're not being met we're pretty unhappy about it. And it's not pretty.
Frank also operated during a different era and in a completely different environment. JHam mentions that Beamer was kept on a sinking ship and it was the best decision VT made. The implication, of course, is that Fuente should be given a longer leash. Since Beamer did it, Fuente should get the same opportunity. Well I just don't agree with that line of thinking. What was true back then isn't true today. We used to drill holes in peoples' heads to cure headaches but we don't do that anymore. It's no longer appropriate. This day in age we know whether a coach is going in the right direction or not. Recruiting is a very good indicator. We don't need to give a coach 10 years anymore. 5 years provides sufficient evidence of whether a coach is trending in the right direction or not.
Fuente may or may not be a great guy. I don't know. But he was hired to do a job and he hasn't done it satisfactorily. The fractured fanbase is evidence of this. If he can't deliver in 2021 I don't really care how great he is with players or coaches, he needs to go.
JHam can only do so much to reunite the fanbase. What it'll really take is winning. If he helps Fuente do that that's probably the biggest way he can help fixing the divide. Twitter posts aren't going to bring us back together.
LOL.
The gradual transfer of coaching decisions from executives & owners to mobs of fanatics is something...
It is NOT the scientific method.
I think it means more coming from JHam. He was a student, player, position coach and now DC at Virginia Tech. His perspective should carry more weight.
It's the offseason. It was a Twitter post to provide his perspective and ask for support in 2021. I'm sure no-one wants to win more than Fuente and JHam, we can save the pitchforks for another day.
Look I didn't come here to argue.
Yes, it probably does. And that's a bit of a shame, don't you think? Wouldn't it be nice to get some indication of how passionate Fuente is about this program from the man himself? I'm not blaming anyone here. Nor am I accusing anyone of royally screwing anything up. I just think it would be refreshing to get a heartfelt type statement like this one out of the head coach.
I don't understand what you mean by this. What pitchfork are you talking about?
Nope. Re-read my comment. It means more because of JHam's ties to the school dating back to his playing days. Of course it's great when Fuente engages but it still hits different coming from a well loved alumni.
Besides, no matter what Fuente will never get love from some fans. Kind of sad really. I'm not his biggest fan but I'm willing to give him some time to right the ship. Never easy following a legend, especially in todays world of wanting instant gratification...some things need time and I'm willing to give him more time. I don't think any other coach not named Nick Saban will come here and immediately start winning conference titles.
Just a general statement.
I agree that coaches need time. I don't think it's fair to expect conference titles immediately. I do, however, think it's fair to expect measurable progress. Most good coaches don't come in and win right away. But they do demonstrate incremental improvements over the course of a season and from year to year. I just haven't seen that in Fuente's five years so I have a hard time finding the faith that he's going to right the ship eventually. There just isn't any evidence to support that theory.
If 8 screenshots are required to share your memo, then twitter is not a good medium for it. Not to mention that is a LOT of typing to do on a phone. Fuck that.
Anyways, this whole thing is weird. It's vaguely passive aggressive, sort of seems like he was fishing for a reason to post this; He clearly wanted to get this off his chest for sometime. Kinda weird.
definitely should have been a tik tok
There is a disconnect somewhere. CJF will do anything for his players, why are players transferring? Why are we losing recruiting battles?
JHam's sentiment is wonderful. Nobody cares.
Don't lose 38-0 at home against Duke. Don't lose to ODU (to a QB who quit playing football and entered seminary school). Don't lose to Liberty. Don't let Pitt get 800 yards rushing in one game.
Every game comes down to a combination of 3 things: scheme, execution, personnel. The football team hasn't excelled in any of this areas for a while.
Also, none of this really matters since only Alabama, Ohio State, or Clemson win national championships.
I would add passion and determination to your list of factors. Some times the lesser team wins because they want it more.
The team is definitely capable of passion....see the ND game two years ago?
Probably regency bias, but the catastrophic losses seem worse under Fuente than Beamer. At least Beamer's teams had an identity, and that staff appeared to get more out of the talent it had.
Just my dumb view as an outside fan.
Fuente's teams are closer to the extremes than Beamer's teams were. When Fuente wins he tends to win by larger margins than Beamer did. When Fuente loses, he tends to lose by larger margins than Beamer did. That's the part that really sticks in peoples minds. Losing to Duke, at home, by 35 points is really tough to swallow. Beamer never had embarrassing losses like that. But then Fuente also beat UNC 59-7. Beamer didn't really do that either. There is certainly recency bias hurting Fuente (aforementioned loss to Duke, the ODU embarrassment, Liberty, etc.) and it feels like the Hokies have been backsliding since 2016. Recruiting hasn't looked good and that's worrisome. Fuente has also had some interesting challenges. Staff turnover is one we probably don't talk about enough. Most coaches come in and bring their entire staff with them. Fuente basically picked up a double barrel shotgun that already had an old slug in one of the chambers. While he was loading the one slug he brought with him into the other chamber the first slug fell out and got lost so he had to find another and get that one loaded too. Weird analogy, I know but how many new coaches have to swap out the staff for an entire unit of their team halfway through a rebuild of the other unit? I don't think Fuente was cut out for the challenge presented to him but I also don't know if many coaches are. His misses on the recruiting trail have really hurt him a lot and ultimately that's probably what it will come down to. He's shown that he can win with talent (2016) but he just hasn't been able to get that talent on campus and he hasn't proven that he can win consistently without it.
A program truly serious about winning would have parted ways with Fu after the disaster that was ODU. They killed us on major cable TV in our recruiting backyard (or it was). Devon Hunter and Bryce Watts were totally unprepared to play in a real game, Trevon Hill was out of control on the sidelines, and there was not a back up QB ready to play- and he even said it. That's not facilities, that's not "recruiting", that's not posh dorms, that's not unexpected departures to the NFL, that's not funding. That is piss poor coaching. The team was unprepared and out of control and didn't just lose to ODU, they lost to a re-building godawful ODU. That game was a clue to Whit that he ignored. We haven't won a bowl game since, we got destroyed by Duke at home- again a mediocre Duke team and we were totally unprepared, we have lost to another in-state G5 school, we lost to medicore UVA, and had our first losing season in 27 years. I would have 100% named an interim coach after ODU and sent a message to the players and fans that I wasn't putting up with that bullshit. And I would have been right, seeing the results since.
I'm generally in agreement with you here. I wondered, at the time, if that game was a harbinger of things to come or an aberration. The further and further we get along the more and more I think it was the former rather than the latter. At the time I might have felt that parting with Fuente was a knee-jerk reaction and I probably, if I had been in Whit's shoes, wouldn't have made a move at that instant.
Hiring a good football coach is hard to do. I think it would have been premature to do this at that point and I'm not sure it would have actually worked out. There are numerous examples around college football that prove firing a coach who you deem to be "underperforming" in 3 years or less rarely works out for the better. Tennessee is the laughing stock of college football for that reason. Having a quick trigger-finger isn't necessarily the answer.
I don't think Fuente is the coach to get us to where we, the fans, expect the program to be. I have seen enough in his 5 years to feel pretty confident things aren't going to get better under his direction. But I can't see the future. I could be wrong. I also don't know who VT could hire who would do a better job. Fuente faced some unique challenges at VT. He didn't deliver adequately but I'm not sure who would have. Or who will in the future.
I like Whit. I think overall he's done a pretty good job. He's not super-human though. We have to allow for him to make some mistakes. I think this whole deal with Fuente has turned out to be a mistake (something nobody could have predicted at the time). I trust Whit to have learned from that. I expect Whit has learned a bit about what Fuente has done well and what he has done poorly what to look for in future coaches. I trust Whit to have learned a lot over the last few years and make the best possible decisions for VT football moving forward.
I like Whit too, he is a class guy, a smart guy, but he is not perfect. The program has been going downhill since that very day. And in terms of Tennessee - despite all of that, they have more talent on their roster right now than we do- which is more attractive to a coach and potential recruits. We are in no mans land- not great on the field, and not a ton of young talent. We will see how this season plays out, but my expectations are not high.
You would have fired Fuente midseason after coming off of a 10 and 9 win season?
If you want to say you would have fired him after Duke in 2019 or after the 2020 season, then do you, but I can't even take you seriously when you say every "serious program" would have fired their coach after that ODU game. Good luck getting a new coach to take you seriously in the job search after you just bailed on your previous coach for losing 1 game in which his starting quarterback broke his leg and his 2 previous seasons were the programs best 2 seasons since 2011. Also just because apparently facts don't matter any more, pretty sure that game was on cbs regional coverage and not "major cable tv". Had to track it down on redditstreams to watch that monstrosity.
I get that you have your schtick you have to maintain on this site, but come on man. This is tiresome. Thats some 20/20 hindsight BS.
There were a lot of other terrible things that happened during the 2018 season. I'm not sure I would have fired him after the ODU loss, but I would have seriously thought about it at the conclusion of the 2018 season. 4 straight losses and we had to schedule an extra game against Marshall to get bowl eligible? Hindsight is always 20/20, but it is clear that the 2018 season started the downward spiral currently known as VT Football.
I have zero issue arguing about whether or not changes needed to be made at the end of the season. That is a completely different viewpoint than what's mentioned above.
LOL. yeah Fuente lost to ODU because Josh Jackson went down. This shit is what people can't take seriously. Also, love the splitting hairs over CBS Sportsnet- another reason to keep Fu around. I get your schtick as well. It would be nice if your boy would start winning.
It would be nice if you didn't derail every thread with your dissatisfaction of our program and our coach. We get it. Try to add something constructive for a change.
When the truth is hard to hear, it is easy to rag on the person providing the truth. Like it or love it, the majority of what DC was saying a year or so ago has been proven true and from the comments on TKP and other sites online, it appears that more and more of the fanbase are starting to think more like DC. I'm guessing DC's comments/tone haven't changed because there has been little on field progress. From years of reading DC's comments, he LOVES VT football and is only calling it like he sees it.
But he is just wrong saying any serious program would have fired Fuente after ODU. DC is a no nonsense show me results kind of guy. I respect that. But I do not want an AD that is as knee jerk as he is.
I know we suck. And I didn't rag on DC. I would just like to have a thread where the discussion remains somewhat on topic and we don't have to argue over how incompetent we are for not firing Fuente years ago or how much it sucks losing to ODU, Liberty, or Duke by 35. It's in every thread.
You have come to the wrong place if you think a discussion or thread is going to remain on topic...
The funny thing is he wants to replace him with a guy that just went 2-4 at the University of Charlotte
I agree winning would be nice.
Let's just all agree that va tech is patient with our coaches. I hope it ends well, or at least is a selling point for the next coach.
It is a very significant silver lining.