(I posted this in another thread, but it was a bit off topic, so I put it here so it would be easier to find.)
We would all love to have a Hokie football team that is built around a Bob Bostad offensive line. Big, physical, grinding opponents down with the style of running attack that the Hokies have not delivered consistently since switching to a more zone based approach in 2003. But, as beautiful and sensible as the pick may seem, it may not be the best idea.
The Badgers run mostly man blocking, with lots of down blocking and pulling back side linemen to overload the point of attack. It is a system that creates a designed hole and the back tends to run to that location. It is more similar to VT's offense in the 90's (although VT used much more speed option.)
Here is video on Monte Ball's huge season in 2011. You will note, a vast majority of the running plays (especially after the first minute) are plays where the Badgers down block and pull someone through the hole.
Now, this is great, and Bostad is a great coach. They are mashing. But, the Hokies offense last season fully committed to zone blocking principles this season, and his group of linemen really adapted to it well (the backs struggled to get accustomed to the fluid reads of cutting off zone blocks, as the same play could end up with the back running inside or bouncing outside.) The Hokies only used down blocking and pulling guards on the inverted veer. More critically, Grimes was recruiting offensive linemen to fit a zone-stretch blocking scheme, as we discussed during the summer recruiting season.
http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2013/july/1/grimes-recruiting-blueprint
This Grimes, zone-stretch archetype is reflected in this class. Our recruits are long, athletic, with good feet who can stay engaged on blocks and stretch guys to the sideline. I am not sure any besides Pettit are guys you watch on film and think they are going to be elite I formation drive blockers like a Jake Grove.
Bostad is a GREAT offensive line coach. I haven't even researched his recruiting record, but he has developed guys who were not necessarily elite recruits. They have had terrific running games, and currently seven of his offensive linemen play in the NFL including Joe Thomas (a seven time Pro Bowler) who was ranked the 18th best tackle in the country coming out of high school. His paycheck on draft day showed how much he improved. My only worry is can the Hokies take the personnel that in theory was supposed to fit a zone-stretch/spread multiple offense, and turn it back into the smash mouth approach, and if not, can Bostad adjust to Loeffler's style.
*I think Searles is the guy based on all the connections between Brown and Beamer, BUT, Marshawn Williams and Shai McKenzie look much more like a Wisconsin back than the kind of backs that succeed in the running game we saw last year.
Comments
Well said, French!
But, if we hired Bostad, I would probably be all like this.
00:00:46–00:00:58
EDIT The tool isn't working. Start at 0:46 end at 0:58.
Yes. Yes I like that a lot.
I want to put my mouth on her mouth.
Watched the whole thing and have no regrets
Yeah, what was she saying?
She likes all the pro teams I love to hate, but somehow that's not a deal-breaker
She at least knows how football works. I would rather date a UVa fan than... pfawww. No. That's too far. Never.
I would totally date a Bears fan though. We would have our struggles on sundays, but at least we could talk about the mechanics of football and why the rules are the way they are and why that last play was a good call.
I would one night a wahoo chick and then leave before she wakes up. I would also give her the wrong number.
Unless my memory fails me, I actually think that Wisconsin ran a large amount of zone blocking under Chryst/Bostad.
They definitely used a lot of power blocking (especially in goalline situations, hence all the td's being a power-O scheme in the highlight videos) but when I recall their games I remember being infatuated with the way they mixed their two schemes together to keep the defense off balance. I think this would fit in perfectly with Loeffler's scheme. Remember that time Loeffler bragged after the game he called the same run play over and over in the fourth quarter to seal the game? That play was a power-O scheme.
Again, this is going off of memory from games taking place in 2011. I could very well be wrong. If Bostad winds up being the man, a close viewing of his time at Wisconsin will settle that question once and for all though.
I would be happy to be wrong. They did run some zone blocking, but it was rarely stretch. They ran inside zones with the fullback leading inside. Most of the time it looked like a classic isolation play, but without double teams. Often, their version of the stretch was more like the old Green Bay sweep, where they would pull two guys, delay with Ball, and then have those two lead while sealing on the play side. It worked really well against cover 3 coverage because the guard would have time to get through traffic to kick him out.
They definitely used the pin and pull on the edge a lot, no question. That's something I would have liked to have seen more of this year.
I don't specifically recall how much stretch they ran to the outside, so you could very well be right on that point (you usually are).
Regardless of who the hire is, I just hope that loeffler gets back to the under the center running attack we saw at auburn when his backs had very good per carry averages
If Leal wins the job, he will have to. He can't be a running threat from the spread.
Agree, which is part of the reason I wouldn't mind seeing leal win the job. Not only would it help the program by giving the young QBS a redshirt year, but it would force loeffler to build a strong running game. Edmonds is capable of being a really good every down back, and the more Williams tape I watch the more I feel that he'll be a factor in next years rotation. Add in Malleck and some freshmen talent out wide, next seasons offense could establish a real identity as a power running, play action unit.
I would love to watch a football game sitting next to both of you guys...I'd have a recorder out and a pen and a pad. I also probably wouldn't be able to drink just so I could keep up...that's the only downside I can think of
For what it's worth there are zero clips of any zone stretch, so you are right on that front (no surprise there). Inside zone, but no stretch.
I think it is fair counter-argument that Bostad is much more familiar with area VT wants to recruit. Although Grimes was able to make inroads quickly in the midwest, Bostad has been getting his recruits all over B1G country. Looking at rivals, Wiscy pulled recruits from OH, IN, IL, MI, MN, WI & MD during his tenure. Not sure if VT would try and recruit in MI, MN or WI, but definitely want to continue to recruit OH, IN, MD, and add in PA.
I agree. I took a quick look at Searels recruiting record, and he has done well in Georgia and Memphis (while at Georgia), Louisiana (while at LSU), and Texans to Texas. The Hokies are not going into those areas and taking recruits away from those schools even on a good run. Searels will have to build a bunch of relationships. Of course, most of Bostad's recruits were home grown Wisconsin guys as well.
I'll vote for whichever produced the best red zone results.
So taking account of French's opinion. Do we adjust the backs to our offensive line talent or adjust our offensive line to our back talent. I guess there are worse problems to have but that is a struggle to be sure.
If it was me, I say figure out how to make the holes first, the figure out how to get someone to run through them.
No disrespect to Montee Ball, but I could have mounted a Heisman campaign running behind those lines.
Honestly, I am a bit surprised at all of these suspected finalists as they all were definitely getting paid more at their previous location.
So that leads me to the following questions:
1) If these are truly candidates then either they are willing to accept lower pay or VT is willing to pay up for them?
2) If VT is willing to pay up for them then why didn't they do that with Grimes to keep him?
3) If 1 and 2 are true, and VT was/is able to pay up for good OL coach then did VT and Grimes have a standing agreement that he would be one and done? As others noted VT kind of backed into his hiring as he "came" with Lefty and was not necessarily searched for.
Interested in others viewpoint
Maybe it's a case of the grass always being greener. Everyone wants to get to one of these big program schools, all of the fans at those big program schools want the head of those coaches. Those coaches want to go to a program with loyalty to their coaches. I think VT is one of the biggest programs with loyalty to coaches.
Possible Answers:
1) lower pay is better than no pay. They're all currently unemployed.
2) Grimes is more of SEC/Texas guy - so it may not have just been about the money (or the lack of VT matching)
3) I doubt it. what if he wasn't hired by LSU. Would he have been fired?
1) Very true and understandable. But also well paid and could wait for a better offer if they wanted to.
2) Searles is more SEC guy as well though but has South roots. yes, I suspect not just about money
3) I meant that perhaps there was some understanding that he would come in for this transition year with the intention that he would definitely be looking to leave. That it was a premeditated structure/agreement. Not that he would definitely be out after 1 year no matter what. (I realize this is pure conjecture)
Grimes left to go to LSU with probably 2x the pay. It's a no brainer. Closer to his home, better football program, closer to his Texas recruiting grounds, SEC. The only thing that I can think of that would give him pause would be uprooting his family after a year, but he's a football coach....stability for him is defined differently than for you and I.
And frankly, if someone offered me 2x my salary and a better chance at advancement after a year at my job, my bags would be packed too.
Yeah I'm not really trying to make commentary on Grimes choosing to leave as I am making a point that all these possible replacements were getting paid more than VT pays their OL coach, and that VT may be shelling out more for a better coach. Maybe the Grimes experience proved to them that you get what you pay for.
WRT #3 he sure hit the recruiting trail hard for someone who was just planing on bailing after a year.
Maybe he's just that kind of professional.
How did the buyouts work for Sherman, O'Cain and Newsome? Maybe it's a situation where VT had to "double pay" for their position coaches last year.
First of all, that Wisconsin run game is a thing of beauty. Kinda unrelated, kinda related question - French, which incoming RB next year has the best vision and patience to see the holes developing (in your opinion)?
Shai has the best vision, but he will redshirting due to his injuries. But Williams is a beast to in his own right. We have a lot to look forward to
Shai will have a year of recovery from his injury so I'm not 100% sure he redshirts if he tells the coaches he really doesn't want to. But unless he has AP healing qualities I agree he should.
Guys, let's not put it past Shane to play 15 different running backs per game.
And by fall we may in fact actually have 15 backs at the rate were going.
Maybe Shane wants to send 11 RBs onto the field, one to snap the ball, and then just keep tossing laterals around until someone breaks a big run...
French, reading up on SEC guys opinions of Searels it seems that the LSU people loved him and the UGA people hated him. I know that perception can completely spin any which way but is there something that LSU does that UGA did differently that made Searels a better coach at LSU. Just hypothesizing whether his job at VT would be closer to UGA or LSU. (And maybe Georgia fans are just a dumpster fire and they dont know what they are talking about, which is at least partially true since they have been trying to can Richt for about 30 years now it seems like)
Speaking from experience, Georgia fans are awful people. On par with Alabama. He left after their worst season in over a decade (2010, 6-7), and from what I've read they wanted the whole staff to go. I wouldn't judge him by that, but rather his longevity with great programs. On one LSU board I stumbled on while googling they spoke highly of him and said it would be a great hire for us.
If Searels if the hire, I will do a heavy duty film review that will likely come out around a week after the hire, because it will take some time to put together film from different stops. Until I see the performance and find what similarities I see across systems, it is hard to say he is the guy. You know what you are getting system-wise with Bostad.
My biggest worry is recruiting. Searels coached at schools where he could land good offensive line talent in state. Virginia has a few good OL prospects over the next few years, but there is zero depth. If Searels is hired, he will have to go out of state to get players, and outside of Memphis, his track record doesn't show him going out of state for players.
Signing off from DCA, French
I agree French. That is why I would prefer Bostad or Stiney to Searels.
Sounds good. I realize that was a lot to ask just point blank and I didnt really expect an immediate answer. Just thinking out loud.
Searels is legit and has a very impressive resume. He probably did not go out of state to recruit as much in the past because he did not have to in order to get the right talent. Or, said another way, it would be a fools errand to ignore big time in-state talent to reach more broadly. I don't think this should be a worry, as Grimes proved that a good O line coach can establish new relationships and pull talent in places where he has not been in the past.
I have to say that these rumors are really fun and all, but we need to temper any expectations of announcements. I read on TKP somewhere that public institutions have to have job openings "open" for at least 7 days before the announce a hire (don't remember what thread I was in, could have been this one). If that's the case, we have to wait for LSU's 7 day window to be up, then for them to announce Grimes, then for VT to "open" the position, THEN wait at least 7 days until announcing a new OL coach.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the quickest I see us getting an announcement (assuming that Searles is the guy and basically has the job in all but title) would be next week. Without an AD, we will probably take longer than the minimum 7 days to officially hire a new coach. SO I expect sometime in February to see an announcement TBH.
Let me know if I have this process wrong.
Technically, the University can hire anyone under the "emergency hire" policy, after which the position can be posted and advertised. The person who was hired as an emergency hire can be given the full position at that point.
Fair enough, thanks for the reply. I just think people are expecting this to happen sooner than it will due to our lack of an AD atm.
Well, we have an interim AD who has all the powers of an AD. The question that the interim AD needs to ask is "do we want to kick the can down the road and lose out on a good coach and hope that the new AD can find a good one, or do we hire someone that Beamer and Loeffler want, which is the way it should be anyway?" A lot of reports from Florida suggest that Searles is a top candidate at UF, so if we play the waiting game, we could lose out on someone good.
UF hired Mike Summers as their OL coach a couple weeks ago.
Ah, gotcha. The other thread (damn this is getting confusing) had a story that said "Monday morning" that UF had offered Searles the job, though it was not confirmed. Apparently that was two Mondays ago.
What about Borstad in Tampa Bay? Was it Similar to what they ran at Wisconsin or was Schiano too much of a control freak?