ACC Moves to 3-5-5 Football Scheduling Model for 2023 and Beyond

RIP Coastal Chaos.

VT will play Miami in 2022, then not again until 2025.

[Mod edit: adjusted title from 3-3-5 to 3-5-5]

DISCLAIMER: Forum topics may not have been written or edited by The Key Play staff.


Fuck Pat Narduzzi

I'd suggest more specifically how Rebecca describes it in Ted Lasso in regard to a splintered bat on an endless loop (google it if you haven't seen it). I think most of us would agree that might be the proper method for fucking Pat Nardouchie.

The fact we won't play Miami and UNC on a regular basis is a damn shame, Miami more than UNC.... Feel like VT's main 3 should have been UVA, UM, and UNC.

Pitt and Wake Forest make no damn sense.

Bleeding burnt orange and chicago maroon

To me it seems like the 3 Triangle schools playing each other was a guaranteed lock, and they just tried to make everything else work out after that.

Oh absolutely, and they threw NCSU to the Clemson wolves for being the squeaky wheel that made this happen.

I know the intention of this kind of scheduling, but I don't think it'll have the impact they think. We will have a great opportunity to really exceed with this kind of scheduling, and hopefully we have the right coaching staff in place to make it happen.

This is my school
This is home

Eh, we weren't going to get UNC as a rival, and Pitt makes sense from the BE rivalry that we had with them (much more so than BC). UM could have probably been worked out with us given they picked up UofL and BC.

We play 2 games against them every 4 years, so I think that's fine

We had a rivalry with Pitt?

Back in the 90's we did and its sorta rekindled a little in the last several years.

We were never going to get UNC, not getting Miami is a head scratcher.

We may not like it, but UVa, Wake and Pitt make a lot of sense. All are relatively easy road trips for fans to make, and nobody was going to get all three of their most hated rivals. Pitt was one of our fellow Big East escapees, so it's not surprising that we drew them, and Wake is right down the road in Winston-Salem. I've been begging for this format for years, but I always hoped we'd be able to pull UVa, Miami, and either Pitt or Wake. It almost looks like the methodolgy was: "Let's give these guys one rival they want (UVa), one that the other team wants (Wake), and one that nobody wants (Pitt)." On the bright side, our grouping of annual opponents appears easier than anybody else except UNC. None of our annual opponents are considered heavyweights in the conference.

At least with this model we still get Miami twice every 4 years, instead of twice every 12 years, as it was with our non-divisional opponents in the old scheme. I also won't miss having to play Duke and BC every year either. And on the bright side, when the ACC does eventually expand to 15 or 16 teams, the most logical scheduling plan will be to add a 4th protected rivalry and expand the conference schedule to 9 games. Maybe we'll get Miami back then.

β€œYou got one guy going boom, one guy going whack, and one guy not getting in the endzone.”
― John Madden (describing VT's offense?)

and nobody was going to get all three of their most hated rivals.

Why not? Seems like that would be an excellent format. Give everyone whichever team they love to hate the most.

Now that I say it out loud, Pitt does qualify by that criterion, and we're lucky we didn't get Syracuse. But Miami fits under almost any criterion I can think of.

and nobody was going to get all three of their most hated rivals.

Unc, Duke, Nc St, and Clemson all did.

Twitter me

Miami and VT, unfortunately, did not.

If Phillips can fix our TV contracts I'll forgive this, otherwise he's Swofford Jr. right now

Phillips can't fix the TV contracts until the ACC product gets better. No one wants to watch the ACC unless they are an ACC fan. Everyone who is a cfb fan wants to watch the SEC.

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Yeah, but if ACC fans can't watch said products for a reasonable price there is still a major issue. (fuckin RSN)

"Hokie religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo

I totally agree, and have just as much hate for RSNs (aka, Sincler Broadcasting) as everyone else here. However, I'm pretty confident that we can't just 'get out' of the contract and suddenly start making money, otherwise we would have. Our leadership is not that incompetitent.

And I'm sure someone will pop in here with a snarky (but funny) comment about all the other schools that have broken contracts over the last decade... Well the SEC broke their contract with CBS, and the new one will be more than triple. We are not the SEC and we will not command that paycheck.

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I don't think anyone has broken any of the TV contracts. They've just expired and gone out for bid.

They're called contracts for a reason. You can break them, but usually comes with a hefty financial penalty. For the SEC, the penalty could have been worth it if the money for a new contract was good enough. But you're absolutely right, we aren't going to command that kind of money. A few good years, FSU, Miami, and us being much more competitive. Other ACC teams getting to 10 wins for a couple seasons probably wouldn't be as meaningful given the fan bases especially Miami and FSU have that make it more desirable from a total viewership across all schools perspective. So Wake continuing to be good isn't as good for the ACC because their viewership is almost definitely much smaller than FSU's. I think our viewership would skyrocket if we got back to 10 wins and ACCCG appearances. Not sure what other schools in the ACC would have large fan bases that would start watching if their school did better. I think that might be another knock against the ACC compared to the SEC is most SEC schools' fan bases are probably die hard watchers. Granted, the ACC has a much more successful basketball history than the SEC, so that could really go in our favor for tv contracts. Who knows, if we get consistently better at football, that might mean we have a more enduring viewership throughout the year given success across the 2 major college revenue sports.

Pitt, Wake and UVa?

I mean that's literally 3 stadiums we will fill with Hokies every other year.

This is my school
This is home

Could also say that about BC, Duke, UNC... and Miami if they have more than 2 L's already in the season. ACC kinda sux

It's also 3 games that we should win pretty easily most years (assuming we get to 8-10 wins most years, which isn't a given).

I'm pretty bummed about this, but I suppose it's nice to have an easier path to the ACCCG.

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My main takeaways

- Pretty clear they tried to pick schools that are close to you for your primary opponent, at least close ish, EXCEPT
- Boston College/Miami and Syracuse/Florida State...literally what? the absolute farthest opponents in the conference? is that some kind of cruel joke?
- For VT, UVA and WF make sense, close in proximity. Pitt is kind of an outlier in general because no one is really close to them, so someone has to draw that straw.

They'll really get after ya

FSU wanted Syracuse that's why that's a thing.

We could literally have Miami so easily. Make Wake and BC rivals (they fucking play every year already and no one gives a shit about them).

My guess is they gave Wake us in exchange for them not having State. Either way we're the most shafted by this, and as a top 3 or 4 program in the league.

Not that I dont trust you, but you got a source on the FSU wanting Syracuse? Mostly curious as to why in gods name FSU would WANT that yearly matchup? It's not a historical rivarly, they're as far away as you could possibly have an ACC opponent be, they're not in a marquee area for recruiting...?

They'll really get after ya

Well I mean, technically Miami to Boston College would be the furthest away to have two ACC opponents. At least the ACC wasn't that much of a d*ck and made those two...oh wait...

Well at least they had a good excuse for it and it's not like Miami lost a long standing rival from the BE they had played every year...

From what I've heard (my brother is a Nole alum), they want access to the TV market πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

Distinctly remember the FSU AD talking about wanting to play Syracuse if the ACC was ever given permanent rivals and got rid of divisions. It was like a B or C level story one of the last two offseasons.

Still digging, honestly very surprised I haven't found it yet

Miami recruits (for students, not football players) the northeast heavily. My guess is they quietly requested BC for that reason.

While I'm not shocked they screwed this up but man how did they screw this up. At least we get to play Clemson more than once a decade. How are Miami and Tech not in the same pod??

Fuck every single thing about Wake and Pitt as primaries for VT. Everything about it. Everything. No Miami? Clown show- 100%. Fucking Pitt. Was so glad to move to the ACC and leave those fucks with WV in the big east. Oh well. We are still in the Big East.

They wanted to go with proximity (for the most part) and tbh I agree with it. I'm more likely to see a Wake Forest away game than I am a Miami away game in person

FSU/SU and BC/UM are weird outliers though, but everyone else to me makes sense. Pitt isnt really close to anybody so someone in the VA/NC area had to draw that short straw anyways.

They'll really get after ya

Pitt and BC's are all former Big East load outs basically. I think a big problem is that BC and Wake are both kind of teams on an Island. BC being the location island way up in the northeast and Wake not fitting into the triangle of hate and being a tiny school with no real rivalry.

I don't know why in my brain FSU and Syracuse makes sense, but for some reason it does to me.

(EDIT: Just looked and naturally I see that we play in Florida 2023/2025 so maybe I'm just stupid or over worried) Lastly, I don't like that we lose going to the state of Florida every other year guaranteed. I know it's probably not the biggest factor, but I feel like it was at least somewhat of a selling point for trying to recruit down there. "you can drive 2 or 3 hours to Miami" sounds a lot better than "you can drive 10 hours to Blacksburg"/deal with flying to Charlotte and driving 3 hours/doing the work to get to Roanoke airport to have to drive to Blacksburg still.

We don't really recruit that far down the peninsula, it would really be like 5-6 hours to get to Miami

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

Flip that though. Are you going to change your plans or drive 5 hours from NOVA DC to catch VT Wake in Lane? nope. Miami VT in lane? you bet your ass that has more appeal. Name an important VT Wake football game in history?

Name an important VT Wake football game in history?

you shouldn't have asked

(add if applicable) /s

You had to know this was coming

edit: well, work lunch is looking up

I did. lol. And I said important, not infamous

Is that like efficient and effective?

2006 at Wake. That was cool πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

It rings a bell but IDK why

Achievement unlocked: All of the Fullers

"Sam Rogers is a college football icon" SB Nation

Thanks Frank!

Ranked matchup (19 vs wake's 14). Glennon went off and Adibi had a scoop and score. Beat the brakes off them but they won the ACC.

Amateur superstar and idiot extraordinaire.

Me and a friend drove down for that game. Best part was yelling
(Same cadence as "Wake""Forest") when we were dominating in the 3rd then looking over the shoulder of a wake fan in front of us texting about "the annoying tech asshole fans" behind him.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

The only thing I will say is that the Wake Forest band plays their fight song nonstop from kickoff to final whistle and its fucking annoying. We will grow to hate this song on the same level as everyone hates Boomer Sooner, its that bad.

This is my school
This is home

Sure, but if I'm Wake Forest, now I get VT every other year in my stadium. Which as we know has a dedicated fan base that loves traveling to NC based games, huge revenue generator for them. Alternatively, VT is going to fill their stadium pretty well based on history (even down years we've been at 75-80% capacity with the exception of Fuente's last game) no matter the ACC opponent. So from the ACC office perspective (which historically has a NC bias) it makes a lot of sense to give Wake Forest to VT instead of giving Miami to VT.

Yes at the end of the day from VT standpoint, I'd rather have Miami in Lane. But I'm trying to look at this from the big picture viewpoint, not just with my orange/maroon glasses

They'll really get after ya

Their stadium is also like Lane so Hokies should know how to be loud in it.

Oh I am not upset about Wake, it makes a lot of sense, WTF is Pitt doing there. That's a huge mistake that needs to be rectified.

Agree 100% on Pitt, just so tired of that game. I was looking forward to playing them when they announced joining and we played them nonconference 2012. But it's just been run into the ground. They are not an every year opponent.

I had fun at the 2019 Wake game

My guess is Miami probably had a lot to do with VT not being a primary.

Go look at their message boards right now. The want for this game to be played annually is mutual for both fanbases.

So you are saying now Miami wants to talk about it?

Fan base =/= administration/coaching staff

Yeah I've read a lot of similar sentiments on Miami boards/sites. They seem to really like the rivalry as much as we do. Many see us as their second rival behind FSU and ahead of UF since they are too scared to play Miami often.

Just wait til they really go and fuck it all up by allowing WVU into the ACC and then we get stuck with WVU, Pitt, and Louisville or some shit

allowing WVU into the ACC

Rich Rod

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

If you feel the leather in your hand let it rip.


You can talk me into the proximity argument with Wake. But Pitt?! Man that sucks.

I don't know how many share my sentiment, but Miami was always my favorite game of the year. I hate we have to wait four years for it now.

I hate we have to wait four years for it now.

That's not quite true. With this arrangement, the most we'll ever go between games against Miami is 2 seasons. On average, we will be playing them either home or away every other year, which isn't terrible.

This is my school
This is home

Like I am not THAT opposed to Pitt as others, but to me Wake makes abso-fucking-lutely zero sense.

Wake was added to give our fanbase a short drive to an away game. We will pack that stadium in worse than we did at Duke.

This is my school
This is home

I'll be there. Wake is an hour away. I'm okay with Wake in our pod.

With this being said, Pitt, Wake, and UVa as our only annual matchups puts us in great positioning to succeed in a single division ACC, assuming we get our shit together.

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This is home

We lose to Pitt every year. In Heinz field it takes Vick or a miracle to beat them. They are more physical and mentally tougher than we are. Have been for 20 years.

Why don't you let the new coaches prove themselves before spraying the dc stank all over them.

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This is home

Just re-read my post 18 times... nope nothing about VT's coaches in it. Thanks though

CornFu managed to beat them at Heinz field. No VIck's were involved in the making of that win.

If they can do it, then any coach can do it.

with that attitude maybe they're just physically and mentally tougher than you

i'm at least willing to see what this staff can do -- rudolph especially

inflection point, baby!!!

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

No, they are mentally and physically tougher than VT- crossing two coaching staffs now. I sat in Heinz and watched them destroy us in every phase under both Beamer and Fuente. I guess it's me though.

i tend to agree with alum even less than i agree with you on here and he's right on this one. Am I understanding right that Beamer left the emotional cupboard bare in 2015 for Brent Pry in 2022?

If I knew the right answer to you venting about Pitt running for something like 27 yards per carry against us was to say "well they've been tougher for us for 20 years now, no sense being mad about it", I would have lmao

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Neither you nor I know what is going to happen the next 5 years, and I didn't even opine on it, so I don't know why you two are bringing up Pry? I am talking about the FACT that Pitt has been the tougher team- not better team- tougher team the past 20 years, thus resulting in 4-8 Pitt teams kicking the shit out of us. fact. I never said a word about the future. If I knew that, I would be at the sports book right now.

Alum: having pitt (edit: plus wake plus uva) every year puts us in a great position to succeed moving forward
You: pitt is tougher than us and they kick our teeth in every time we meet for the last 20 years
Me/Alum: what does the last twenty years have to do with our position moving forward
you: I didn't say anything about the future, did i??????

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

So you and Alum think Pitt may suck/not be a tough out in the future- compared to say Miami or UNC? Great I respect that opinion, fine. I think that they have largely sucked against the rest of the league the last 20 years except a certain team in orange and maroon, so I was hoping for a different opponent- say anyone else.

Not just Pitt, but looking at the composite of Pitt + Wake + UVA

Miami football getting major cash injection and university alignment and going out and hiring Mario Cristobal (even though it was sloppy) projects to be a tougher out moving forward than Pitt hitching their wagon to Pat Narduzzi through 2030. If Pitt is the most difficult permanent opponent in our pod, it's a pod that should be in our favor.

"Why gobble gobble chumps asks such good questions, I will never know." - TheFifthFuller

Fair point

i tend to agree with alum even less than i agree with you on here and he's right on this on

This is my school
This is home

Honestly perfect gif usage. Well done.

There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city.

Yeah we're def gonna split a 10 year series with Pitt

I just sit on my couch and b*tch. - HokieChemE2016

Not sure if I agree. We have struggled with Pitt the last few years. Plus if you listen to Cover 3, they are really high on them.

WF is always a well coached team. Remember, some people wanted us to poach their HC.

I wouldn't bank on Wake staying good. They might have a good coach and they're a program that can peak when the conference is down, but they really don't have any staying power. I would expect them to fall back quickly over the next few years, similar to how BC became a tire fire after Matt Ryan.

Pitt hit lightning in a bottle last year with their offense. Defensively, they'll generally be good, but there's a reason why all their top offensive weapons couldn't transfer out fast enough this winter/spring.

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This is home

Every time we have competent DTs we shut Wake's offense down. Clemson was done their year but their DTs owned that wierd mesh thing.

Agree that everyone wanted UVA, UNC, and Miami but this could have been worse. I'd rather play Wake and Pitt than be stuck with BC or Syracuse every year. At least Wake is close and should be a pretty easy win most years. Pitt will be the toughest of the 3 yearly games for the most part and I think we can get a good rivalry going with them, akin to what we had with WVU in the 90's.

One of the two wouldn't have been bad but this gives us 3 games that won't be on the major networks. It does us no favors from a national brand standpoint.

Combine that with poor nonconference scheduling and we have 3 primetime games in a two year period: Clemson FSU and Miami once.

The disrespect factor really gets me. This is a conference that's survival depends on our success and making us happy. There should not be more than three other schools the conference listens to before us. (And Wake BC Cuse etc are lucky to be here at all.. The conference doesn't have to listen to them at all.)

What's going to hold us back from a national brand standpoint is the ACC is bad at football.

Yeah pipe dream would have been UNC and Miami but everyone who thought out the combinations was certain that wasn't going to happen. Pitts a decent team who we have something to prove against right now. Wake is on the rise. UVA is UVA.

The biggest concern I have is how long we lock these teams in. Pitt and Wake are both teams who have the potential to fall off the map and be absolute ass where its a 0 sum game playing them every year (see BC for the past forever)

(add if applicable) /s

For those wondering about how we're being screwed with scheduling....

2023 - NCSU, @FSU
2024 - Clemson, @UNC
2025 - FSU, @Miami, @NCSU
2026 - Miami, UNC, @Clemson

Yeah, I think we're fine

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This is home

Thank you, said this in the other thread...the 3 teams you're with really doesn't have much of an impact when you factor in how great the rotation of teams we NEVER previously played is.

(add if applicable) /s

Honestly, given the rotation that gets us playing every team in the ACC home and away every 4 years, I'm very happy to see that someone like Wake was included as our annual matchup rather than Miami. We are still going to have tough seasons, but I'd much rather go with a rotation that has some years where its a little softer than running a gauntlet every single year.

You look at what someone like NCSU or FSU got and.... yeah I'm ok with the way the cards were dealt to us.

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This is home

#1 is mind boggling - why wouldn't you prioritize rivalries that would draw eyeballs on TV?! That's how we make our money!!!

I get it - each year we play at least one 'football school' both at home and on the road - I still don't see why we're letting one of conference's premier rivarlies die.

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I think this schedule is probably the best compromise between big time matchups and competitive balance. We could have kept Miami as a permanent, and a few other schools maybe could be arranged differently to get a handful more "big brand" games annually. But then I think you're shooting yourself in the foot by having everyone beat up on each other too much and jeopardizing a playoff berth. This schedule will have far more compelling annual games than we have seen, and every possible matchup will happen in a two year cycle. All in all the VT fan and nostalgia in me wishes we had Miami annually still, but I think they got this right.

UVA and Pitt I don't have a problem with, but Wake? Miami has Louisville as one of their primaries, why we couldn't have have been one of theirs is crazy. I know people wanted UNC as well, but UNC probably didn't want us so that probably was never going to happen. Good news: no more annual BC matchups.

Like I said not crazy about Wake, but if the team gets it's stuff together it could be a benefit. Also, we're likely to play the better conference teams more often than we have been.

One more thing: RIP Coastal Chaos... thank god.

By far the only redeeming thing about this is no annual BC matchup. Agree

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

Is anybody actually surprised that Duke and UNC got their dream scheduling? Everybody else kind of has somebody random shoved down their throat ignoring past rivalries.

The good news about WF is the location is close, and we should be guaranteed a win every year. The bad news is a loss to WF will hurt badly.

It looks like they did UNC and NC State first and then filled in everyone else. Old Big east got done last. UVA even got a better annual draw than Tech.

It's Time to go to Work

I may have died of shock if they hadn't prioritized NC schools over everyone else like they have done for literally everything ever.

I think you should pump the brakes on "guaranteed win every year" Clawson is humming and unless you have a monster DL and an offense that puts up a lot of points they'll get you.

Outside it's night time, but inside it's LeDay

I said "should be" and Wake runs in waves as their players come and go. I am not sure they will be able to draw the better players for a long term in the days of NIL. You are going to see more of their players follow the example of their running back who left for Michigan and a better payday after showing what he was capable of.

It would have been nice to get annual matchups with at least one team that has fans who care.

It's Time to go to Work

lol he's not wrong

UofL - GT, Miami, UVa
VT - Wake, Pitt, UVa

Unfortunately, they did not switch anything, because Hokiesports has already been updated, and we are 100% linked up with Wake and Pitt every year through 2026.

Interestingly, Notre Dame doesn't factor into these plans at all, at least not for us. Our biggest OOC games from now to 2026 are

2023 - Purdue, @ Rutgers
2024 - @ Vandy, Rutgers
2025 - @ SCar (Atlanta), Vandy
2026 - @ Maryland, BYU

throw in some games with Marshall and an annual home and away against ODU, and our schedules are pretty much highlighted by 1 or 2 big games every year.

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This is home

Of course Andy bitter talks sense.

Our opponents DEFINITELY should have been LOLUVA, GT, and Miami


Wow, I hadn't noticed that until seeing Andy's tweet. Seriously... Louisville got VT's dream scenario. We got screwed.

And even our scenario works for UofL... Pitt, Wake, UVa works and makes sense for them.

I wonder if Bitter is onto something here and maybe our primaries were swapped with UofL to appease everyone, and I wonder if this might have been something we asked to have happen, because I can't imagine the ACC would be bending over backwards for UofL football.

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This is home

Taking this that extra step....

UofL is now scheduled for the following notable games

2023 - VT, @GT, @Miami, @NCSU, @Pitt
2024 - GT, Miami, UNC, @Clemson, @VT
2025 - FSU, NCSU, Pitt, @GT, @Miami
2026 - Clemson, GT, Miami, @FSU, @UNC

If you believe that a flip there might have happened, then swap the VT and @VT for UofL and @UofL and that is our notable schedule for the next 4 years.

Fuck me, I can see why Whit would have objected.

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This is home

Whats wrong with this schedule? Too tough?

In a single division where only the top 2 teams based on win % gets to play for a title, that kind of schedule puts you behind the 8 ball, especially when you're breaking in a brand new coach after the previous staff put us in our worst spot of the last 30 years.

By no means are we going to have an easy schedule, but I'll gladly play ones that have us playing only 2 of Miami, FSU, Clemson, UNC, and NCSU every year rather than 3 or 4 because one is permanent.

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This is home

Yeah, looking at the schedule now, it totally looks like UL got our schedule and we got theirs. That schedule certainly has more of our traditional rivals and matchups with the big name programs, but that does seriously put us at a disadvantage trying to be competitive in the next 4-5 years for the ACC. We still have a much more difficult conference schedule than we have had in years past, but two of the football power schools annually is more palatable than potentially 3-4 because of having Miami as a permanent.

I wonder though if Pitt Wake UVA makes more sense for our fanbase/travel and recruiting under the new staff. If we stick to the six-hour radius primary strategy, we have a guaranteed game in the Triad every other year and one in Pittsburgh as well. I sense Pry and Rudolph are going to try to recruit Western PA and PA in general more than previously.

Where is ND?

Us to them:

No, I *don't* want to go to the SEC. Why do you ask?

We don't love dem Hoos.

Like that we will see greater variety on our schedule, but absolutely hate we lost Miami as an annual game. A once great college football rivalry is now essentially dead. Also have really enjoyed the Intensifying UNC rivalry over the last decade which will also now be gone.

Edit - also not too butthurt we don't have GT has a permanent. That game really was only fun because of the decade long chess match between Paul Johnson and Bud Foster. That game hasn't been near the same for a few years now.

I mean, we still play them every other year. It can be a rivalry, just bi-annually instead of annually. It might even make the games MORE intense. We only get a shot for bragging rights once every other year, so the game means more.

I think it is a bit overblown to say the rivalry will be gone when we still play them reasonably often.

Would you like Prys with that?

Every class of incoming freshmen will get to see Virginia Tech host every ACC team in Lane during their 4 years at Tech. That in and of itself is worth it, even if that means that we host Miami once every 4 years instead of once every 2.

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This is home

True, but VT and Miami have played annually for more than 30 years. Our series with them predates even the Big East. The game hasn't had the national ramifications it used to for quite a while, but still an impactful rivalry. The blue collar vs swagger thing was really a lot of fun. I guess every other year isn't awful but still would have liked to keep it annual.

Plus: We are not in weakest division county any more. 4 year athletes get to go to every stadium in the conference at least once. We don't have to play BC every year. I live 15 minutes from WF.

Negative: No annual Miami game. Fuck Pat Narduzzi.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

I don't mind Pitt. UVA was a given. WF is the new BC.

We should have gotten Miami but i prefer this than what we had.

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken" - Colonel Sanders via Ricky Bobby

Really hate that we lost Miami as an annual, but the relief of not having BC or even worse, Syracuse, as one of our 3 probably outweighs it. I really saw a scenario where we get one of those because of "Big East Rivalries".

I figured we would end up with two good (Miami and UVA) and one crap (BC or Cuse), so I guess I'll take UVA and two good-not-great in Pitt and Wake.

Can we just go ahead and schedule Miami as a nonconference game? Way to go ACC. One of the biggest games every year and always played around my birthday as well. I guess the annual Tecmo bowl is dead as well.

The only game that can compete with WF for lacklusterness is Syracuse.

Wake and BC are essentially the same except Wake is a drive and BC was a flight, wake likely to be decent weather, BC likely to be crap, wake is in our primary recruiting footprint, BC is in a recruiting Bermuda triangle, we improved with Wake.

Pitt is possibly drivable for most of the DC fan base and that is where the positives end. Seems like we got drivable, but not desirable.

I am not sure what to do with my hands now

I'm upset about Miami. Makes no sense. As an ATLien, I'm really upset about not playing GT every year. My wife is a GT grad, and VT/GT is a family event each year.

My two favorite regular season games are happening half as often. This blows.

Twitter me

Right there with you. VT/GT is a family game for me too (father, sister, uncles, etc.). That annual bet for who gets to be referred to as "Tech" is going to be missed.

If you're not sure if my comment warrants a "/s", it probably does.

We have the same bet going.

Twitter me

I will miss the annual Miami game, but if the cost is that we don't play BC every year I think that might be worth it.

I'm pleased from a geography standpoint - these are driveable for 90% of the fanbase. I live in Charlotte so the Wake game is an easy road trip for me, and Pittsburgh isn't a bad drive either.

Some of my fondest memories of recent VT history involve Miami (2003, 2009, 2011). Hate to see it go, but I'm on board with an easier path to the ACCCG as Alum07 alludes to above.

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I hate Pitt, I hate this schedule

I don't buy the easier path arguments. I mean it's clear that it's an easier path but that is like the last thing anyone cares about.

Big Ten east and SEC west. Two best division in college football. And they're both stacked. And the get on good TV time slots all the time. And they make a ton of money. And the fans care about the games.

Give me that! And Miami.

Big Ten east and SEC west. Two best division in college football. And they're both stacked. And the get on good TV time slots all the time. And they make a ton of money. And the fans care about the games.

More money ain't happening anytime soon. Our current contract runs through 2036 and has no paths to renegotiate without adding a major school (i.e. only ND would swing the needle here).

We're stuck with our payout for the next 15 years, so I don't blame the ACC for not giving a shit about stacking TV ratings for a network that already shows they don't give a shit about us.

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That contract could be the death of the ACC. With streaming services ready to throw money at CFB we'd stand to make a lot renegotiating.

With us unfortunately locked in, the best option for more revenue would be for the "alliance" conferences to schedule marquee nonconference matchups each year and sell them to Amazon, Apple, etc. USC Clemson, Oklahoma State Florida State, VT Oregon. Lot of TV potential there.

It just sucks that with a lot of good cards on the table: Notre Dame, scheduling changes, streaming services; the ACC can't figure out how to make any of it work for them.

Oh yeah, absolutely. The TV contract is going to be the downfall of the ACC. Whether we want to admit to it or not, as a conference we can no longer keep up with our peers. Within a few years you'll have schools in the SEC and Big Ten making more money in a year through their tv deal than we will in a decade. The gap between those conferences and everyone else right now is probably as close as it will get for the next 20-30 years without some MAJOR shakeups coming, and even then, all the schools currently not in those 2 conferences are going to fall away rapidly.

And its not just like this in football. You're seeing this take hold in basketball as well, where the SEC is making serious headway and the ACC is seeing its stock at the lowest its been in 20 years. Look at what just happened in baseball where I want to say 6 out of the 8 teams in Omaha were from what will be the SEC. Across the rest of sports, the big money conferences are beginning to completely take over and there is little, if anything, that anyone else can do to stop it.

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What leverage do we have? The ACC isn't that exciting. There's one good team that has won the conference 5 of the last 6 years. The conference's other 3 major football brands (FSU, Miami, VT) are all down. For the last three season, half the teams have had a losing overall record. There are no nationally relevant football rivalry games.

For reference - The SEC hasn't had more than 5 teams with a sub-.500 record in the last three years. They finish with five ranked teams every season since 2009. Let's look at the B10 - where 8-4 Wisconsin played 8-4 Minnesota on rivalry weekend and got 5.5m viewers. A similar(ish) ACC game - NC St vs UNC - only got 2.68m viewers.

ACC Basketball and Olympic sports are among the best, but that bring minimal value. Football brings at least 80% of a conference's revenue - Even in the ACC.

We can't renegotiate. The product just isn't good enough.

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We can't renegotiate. The product just isn't good enough.

And at this point, will it ever be? As Alum mentioned, the Big10 and the SEC just make so much money on their TV deals, and the number of eyeballs and how that translates to NIL dollars...good luck to the teams in the other 3 P5 conference (with the exception of those in major markets like USC, for example) on getting the level of talent, etc needed to make the product compelling enough to overcome that gap.

College football has been killing itself for awhile now, and the pace is accelerating.

It looked like there was hope in 2016/2017... Clemson was peaking, VT had a good season (LMAO), Louisville had an electric QB, Miami was looking great with Mark Richt, GT and FSU made (what people thought) were good hires. In 2016, the ACC finished the season with 5(!) ranked teams (an all time high).

The ACC needs 2016 to become the norm - or at least more common - in 2016, the league had three 10+ win teams, eight 8+ win teams, and only three teams finish under .500.

Best case plausible outcome:

  • Clemson continues to be good, Miami and VT made good hires (who stick around long enough to elevate the programs and attract good candidates in the future), and FSU, NC State, UNC, and ND are all decent, meaning that there's 10-20 compelling conference games each season, and maybe 5 of them have national relevance.
  • The 2020 season (4 ranked teams, top 5-10 match up in the ACCCG) becomes the norm, and occasionally we get a better season. This continues for 5+ years
  • Eventually, we get a contract that is around 75% of what the SEC/B10 are making (I think right now the ACC is making ~$17M/school and the SEC is making $45M/school).
  • This improvement coincides with the playoff expansion, and the ACC routinely gets 2-3 teams in the playoff, and the future is bright again.

Worst case plausible outcome:

  • The ACC continues to be one good team plus a bunch of mediocre teams, meaning that there's 5-10 compelling conference games each season, and 1-3 of them have some national relevance.
  • The 2018 season (2 ranked teams) becomes the new norm. Occasionally we get three ranked teams in a season (like 2015) and other times we get one ranked team per season (like 2019).
  • Our TV deal continues to be ~25% of what the SEC/B10 make.
  • This coincides with the playoff expansion, but most years the ACC only gets 1 team in the playoff.

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Eventually, we get a contract that is around 75% of what the SEC/B10 are making (I think right now the ACC is making ~$17M/school and the SEC is making $45M/school).

We are 13 years away from being able to do that. 13 years ago, Tyrod was our QB and would be our starter for another 2 seasons.

I cannot reiterate this enough, our financial future right now is pretty much set in stone unless (until) the ACC dissolves. We cannot renegotiate before the contract expires expires. There is nothing we can do that will trigger that event, and even then it's only up to ESPN to want to do so, and fat chance of that happening.

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To be honest, what the ACC needs if it wants to survive is contraction. Give BC, Cuse, Duke, Wake the boot. But that will never happen. It's becoming eerily similar to the old Big East with football-first and basketball-first schools. There's really no realistic schools we can add other than ND to add value to the deal. WVU adds another rival for us and Pitt but it doesn't move the needle nationally and slices the pie yet another time.

I'll be interested to see what the landscape looks like in 3-4 years. If given a chance to jump to the Big Ten, I guarantee this administration at VT would take it.

Yeah and I think the big reckoning will happen when the SEC and Big Ten sign their new contracts. From what I have read, they're both asking for over $1 billion a year contracts for their rights, and they're both going to get it.

When that happens, and the ACC is stuck with something that pays at most 20% of that per year over at least 10 years before we are able to renegotiate, that's it. That's game over.

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But in the days of cable cutting, ESPN doesn't have the same power they did before. I am hoping some reality checks in and ESPN says 500 million. They actually go backwards on the offer. Less people watch football today than they did 5 years ago. More people have cut cords and gone streaming. Unless ESPN is ready to start their own streaming service for subscription, they can't afford to keep raising the offers.

Unless ESPN is ready to start their own streaming service for subscription, they can't afford to keep raising the offers.

Uh where ya been?

One of the only draws to live television for cord cutters is live sports, btw

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Big Ten reportedly closing in on media rights deal worth $1.1 billion per year

According to Front Office Sports, the new media rights contract could pull in an estimated $1.1 billion in annual revenue for the Big Ten Conference.

It's a massive difference from the current deal in place. Currently, the conference receives $440 million each year thanks to the six-year, $2.64 billion deals it signed in 2017. But as the SEC's $3 billion contract with ESPN shows, television networks are willing to pay more than ever before to broadcast live football games.

It also helps that there is added competition for the media rights to these games. NBC reportedly joined the bidding war, forcing competitors Fox Sports and Disney to become more aggressive with their offers.

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ESPN doesn't have the same power they did before

I disagree... I think ESPN's power in the sport isn't continously rising as it once did, but:

  • ESPN still (a) drives the national narrative around the sport, and (b) own a lot of the inventory.
  • Live sports streaming isn't as ubiquitus as a lot of us seem to believe: a huge chunk of rural america (eg; college football country) doesn't have great internet.
  • As Godfrey has recently said on SZD, being able to promise recruits' parents that they can watch their kid on cable is a non-insignificant factor in recruiting. Being able to tell parents 'you can just switch to channel X every saturday' is something simple that a lot of parents understand (better than streaming, he says)
  • Finally, I'm not convinced then numbers for streaming would work. Remember, the ACCN makes money based on how many households have the channel. Streaming services are paying based on how many people buy subscriptions. Last I checked, there were 70 million households that have the ACCN. How many of those do you think would actually pay for the ACCN on it's own?

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How many of those do you think would actually pay for the ACCN on it's own?

I switched providers to get the ACCN, but lost access to RSN. It seems like I lost out on more games than I gained. You get pissed when yo a buy a subscription and don't get what you thought you were buying. There is no way ACCN would be better as stream only with the current lack of programming. Hopefully the Coach K victory lap story will only be on once a week in primetime this year.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

I switched providers to get the ACCN, but lost access to RSN.

This will be a good thought experiment!

  • How much did your bill change when you switched providers?
  • How much would you be willing to pay annually to be able to stream every ACC sporting event?

I imagine that a lot of us would be willing to pay north of $100/year to watch every VT foootball game, but how many people are like us? Let's say there's an average of 15k people per ACC school willing to pay $100/year for this access, and maybe another 30k people who would buy the package. That's $1.7M per school. We're making 10x that with our current deal.

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There is no way there are 15K per school that would pay that much for that access. Too many schools have trouble selling that many tickets to a game. Throw in the hoops and you get closer. I agree, no way we get to what we have there. But that does not include the ad revenue. Spurtle and the tech line likely paid at lease $14.99 plus shipping and handling per ad.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

There is no way there are 15K per school that would pay that much for that access.

That is exactly my point, the exact reason why we cannot just align with some streaming service. ESPN's business model - while not as successful as it was 10-15 years ago - is still the most profitable model out there for college college sports.

The only way a streaming service works is if it's a bundle that includes a huge chunk of college sports. If there was an NCAA streaming service thatt included every game from every team, I would pay a ton for it. But that won't happen.

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hence my comment:

I agree, no way we get to what we have there.

Sometimes we live no particular way but our own

I thought we had golden handcuffs to the ACC. Giving up our TV rights to bail or something. Big 10 I guess could figure out a way to make it work. It would be an interesting move especially with Texas and OU moving to the SEC. I think we align more with the SEC than the Big 10 but I'd be ok with it. We clearly don't fit in, in the ACC.

The thought is it would either be so much of a financial gain for us we could afford to negotiate an exit penalty, or this would likely coincide with multiple schools leaving the ACC and the effective dissolution of the conference as we know it, with no viable entity left to enforce the GoR.

I don't see a world where either B10 or SEC expand enough to completely eat the ACC. For FB it is basically Clemson, VT, Miami, and FSU. Tech makes sense in the B10, but the rest are too far. Clemson and FSU would slide into the SEC just fine but Miami is odd man out there.

I could see both the SEC and B1G expand to the point where they basically become the NFC and AFC of college sports, just on a larger scale.

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Conference expansion isn't necessarily about great matchups, although brand value matters. But the primary driver has been and will continue to be the increase in TV households, because that's what drives revenue. It's why the $EC likely has little interest in Miami, FSU, or Clemson. They've already got marquee matchups and none of those three have anywhere near the brand power of Texas, so the conference would gain little incremental revenue by adding them. The only way I could see it happening is if the top 50ish NCAA teams form some kind of NFL-lite system, with maybe two or three superconferences. The $EC might want to lock up all the good teams in the south as a defensive measure (i.e., don't let the B1G eat into that Florida revenue).

On the other hand, both the $EC and the B1G would love to expand into NC and VA, which are the #9 and #12 states by population, respectively. However, UVA fits the B1G profile far better than VT does, and would almost certainly be their first choice. If I'm the B1G commish, I'm setting my sights on ND, UVA, UNC, and GT. That brings the Irish (and their national fanbase) home, adds VA, NC, and GA to my portfolio, keeps the academic folks happy because all four schools are AAU (or are close enough, in ND's case), and oh by the way adds a couple of basketball powerhouses too.

You might need to guarantee soft landings for a few other schools, so... as a hypothetical example, if NCSU and VT went to the $EC at the same time, there wouldn't be much political opposition. Of course, as TU/OU proved, dollars trump everything else in the end, so anything's possible.

I know I've said it a hundred times already, but we really screwed the pooch when we didn't aggressively pursue $EC membership back when it was (rumored to be) on the table.

"Those who jump into the void owe no explanation to those who stand and watch."

Neither VT nor UVa will jump without the other in tow. The state legislature will make sure of that, not after what happened to get us into the ACC in the first place. The only way it happens is if one jumps to one conference and the other jumps to the other at the same time.

And I suspect there will be similar pressures among UNC/NCSU, Duke/UNC and maybe even FSU/Miami, even if Duke and Miami are private. Which could make things interesting, as VT, UVa, UNC, NCSU, and Duke are arguably the main schools that those conferences would be after, as they would add the biggest footprint to the broadcasting market.

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While I think we fit in better in the SEC (and Id love to have an annual game with Tennessee), I can definitely see a world where UVA gets added to the B1G and we get dragged in with them as a "good enough" situation.

We cannot renegotiate before the contract expires expires. There is nothing we can do that will trigger that event, and even then it's only up to ESPN to want to do so, and fat chance of that happening.

But ESPN can renegotiate with cable providers. Get the ACCN into more homes and increase carriage fees.

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Exactly. Liking the schedule or not means choosing between two arguments:

1. Whats best for the conference is best for VT.

2. An easier schedule is better for VT than major matchups.

If we take the easier path, we have to win 10+ for anyone to give a shit, because we won't be on TV as much (and fewer gameday picks, previews etc).

Believing #2 requires you to think we'll win 10+ over that period AND that we wouldn't if we played tougher matchups. It's possible but I don't believe it.

By the very nature that we are in the ACC means basically we have to go 11-1 or better to be in any NY6/Playoff conversation. Its true for option 1 or 2.

You don't have to be in the playoff for people to give a shit about the program nationally. I don't think there's a greater than 1% chance that we make a four team playoff the next decade.

If give a shit is your threshold, the comment still stands. Nobody is going to give a shit about an 8-4 VT team except for VT and/or ACC fans. A 10-2 or better team, other people *might* give a shit.

It depends on who the team has beaten and how much airtime they have.

8-4 with a good schedule and several marquee/primetime games =/= 8-4 playing nobody and not being on anyone's radar.

If our record is 8-4, we either lost those "marque" games or we won them a lost to a couple of ACC scrubs (or worse OOC scrubs). Still won't be on anyone's radar. But to your point, the non-conference schedule matters much more for this than the conference schedule.

to the outside world, us beating UM or UM beating us just means one team sucked and the other is *probably* not much better. Same with any ACC opponent except maybe Clemson.

9-3 & 10-2 gives us a good bowl game w good exposure. If we win that game, then we're in the thick of these rising contender conversations.

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15 years ago we would have all been like "bring it on, F 'em we will play anybody"

Kind of sobering about where we are as a program right now that we need to think about an easier path to the ACC title game.

We aren't built in the next few years to play 3-4 of Clemson, FSU, Miami, UNC, NC State, Pitt in a season and have any shot at contending for the conference championship. We need to build and show progress over the next few seasons. If we took on an overly tough schedule, you're looking at 6-6 or 7-5 at best for a while, which won't put Pry in a good spot to dig out of this massive hole. I think this schedule is definitely better/more variety than we would have had the next few years (playing Clemson/FSU every year and generally Miami or UNC every other year is very good, throw in NC State every other year and Pitt annually). Plus less Duke and BC which we can all agree is great. That gives us a shot to be in the running for ACCCG in the next several years. Plus, note the scheduling arrangement is only 2023-2026. I'm wondering if the permanent three games can/will be reshuffled as needed every few years.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

I'll be a contrarian, I like it. All three are in our primary recruiting footprint where we can shape our own destiny in that regard. The 5-5 setup means we'll have regular access to the other big names.

I appreciate your contrarian view.

Perhaps this was the way to maximize the amount of compelling matchups across the entire conference. I'm suspect, but hopeful.

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Swapping out Miami, UNC, GT, and Duke every other year for FSU, Clemson, NCSU, and Louisville...AND double our visibility in Charlotte? I have zero issues with that.

Oh look, the North Carolina schools got all their perfect rivals. No bias here, folks.

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Thanks Frank!

Oh look, the North Carolina Tobacco Road schools got all their perfect rivals. No bias here, folks.

Wake fans aren't happy at all that they were effectively left out of that scheduling arrangement.

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It's not terrible, I mean there is no annual BC game.

At least we have this

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Thanks Frank!

College football is getting ruined...very sad day

Touchdown Tech!!!

Thank god we're finally getting rid of divisions. We should've been matched up with UVA, Miami, & GT obviously, but I'll take whatever to get out of a divisional alignment and an annual BC game. This does change program expectations which were win the Coastal to compete for an ACC title. Now it will be more difficult to make the ACCCG, but it'll be more difficult for everyone.

Our matchups are puzzling, but it kinda makes sense if you believe the theory that we traded with Louisville. I don't hate it but it will be rough going. I think a lot of people will see why myself and others were really high on Clawson during the coaching search. As long as he's there, they're gonna be a tough out.

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A few weeks ago I wrote that I guaranteed the 3-5-5 model would not end complaining about football schedules...and I was figuring VT would get Miami!

Tech needs to make itself more attractive, maybe another conference will come calling, again. If only.

One thing I can't figure out - if the model is 3-5-5, how come we don't play Miami in 2024? I thought we would play five and then the other five the next year.

I think it's 3 permanent opponents + 5 other teams you play + 5 teams you don't play.

Most likely, the numbers don't work out for all 14 teams to just alternate between the same two groups of five each year and maintain the proper balance of home and away conference games for everyone.

If we don't accidentally go 6-2 in conference with last year's roster, in 2023, I'll be mad. That schedule is weaksauce

No Clemson, Miami, North Carolina, Duke, nor Georgia Tech

Never Forget #1 Overall Seed UVA 54, #64 UMBC 74

VT's 2023 ACC schedule is literally the entire Atlantic division except for Clemson.

Yeah I don't think it's awful. NC State is a team I wished we had been playing more often, and they've got a pretty solid program going on now. FSU is big and always a great opponent. Louisville we have only played once since they joined the conference.

I feel like our common opponents don't really matter that much because we will play every opponent twice in 4 years.

It absolutely sucks that we don't have Miami on an annual basis. There's no two ways about it... major gaffe by the ACC.

Is coronavirus over yet?

What other non-regional rivalries are there that could be played every year without the fan base getting tired of them? And involve 2 of the top 4 programs in the league?

LSU Florida is the only one that comes to mind, but.. that is not much of an actual rivalry if you ask both teams.

Really hope taking a break does not diminish the rivalry. I look forward to that game every year

I didn't think we'd get UNC, but I thought for sure we'd keep Miami. Thankfully we got rid of BC but instead, we get Pitt. I'm not a fan of our 3 permanent "rivals" but looking at the future schedules, it is imminently more winnable than if we had gotten Louisville's permanent 3. Also, as others have said, playing games in NC every year is good for recruiting as is playing in PA, even if we have to play Pitt to do it.

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Pitt is better than Miami right now, GT is worse than Wake, getting UofLs 3 teams is easier in the short term.

Is it too early to look at other conferences? Seriously don't see this being a good thing for VT long term. FSU, Miami, or Clemson should be a mandatory. You would think the ACC would be smart enough to have automatics with the historically better teams so that out of let's say VT, Miami, FSU, Clemson you would have the 4 playing at least 1 of the other 3 opponents each year. I guess that would make too much sense. Screw the ACC, they shafted us on our TV deal before and now they're shafting us again with scheduling

Go for it

Having you best programs beat up on your best programs isn't the way to go for Novemer/December ratings.

The beat year the ACC had in terms of the playoffs was 2020 where Clemson and Notre Dame both only played 2 of the top 5 teams in the ACC that year. The each skipped the hard teams other than each other and went to the playoffs.

This is why the big Ten back loads their schedule every year - so the projected best teams don't play each other until later in the year. The records for conference teams get inflated, along with their rankings, early in the year so all the late season games are ranked vs ranked

That's how they get so many late season, high ranked matchups for sure, at least in recent years. That's also how that Iowa team, who was nowhere close to a top 5 team, managed to hang around that area until like late October.

100% agree. So FSU (the current worst of the 3 the ACC teams that were powerhouses) would get the easiest permanent schedule, Miami is 2nd and then Clemson with the 3rd easiest. This way all 3 should have 3 easy wins every year. Then you rotate so at minimum two of those teams play eachother late in the season. The 3rd if they skip the other two should be highly ranked for the championship game.

Next you want the UNCs, VTs, NC states, possibly GT if they can get back to have the next easier schedules so they can be quality wins, but you give them shitty match ups like Clemson o a short week or back to back road games with long travel (cuse and Miami back to back) so that its easier for the big 3 to win over a quality team.

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These aren't pods...

Catching a bit of Packer and Durham this morning talking about the 3-3-5. Apparently the league came up with the scheduling model but did not create/release tiebreakers. Probably just came up with this and hoped it wouldn't become too messy, but as we know the ACC can get insanely messy.

Edit - Damn, Packer and Durham just announced their show has been cancelled. Last show July 1. ACCN must be doing horribly.

Well, now can see why. They are doing a very awkward interview with a UNC womens lax player and asking her to go through a Starbucks drive thru in her mom's car and order a coffee while live on air.

Believe CFB Reddit laid out all the possible scenarios where there could be tie breakers for the conference championship game, and in 2 seasons it's possible to have a 4 way tie - trading coastal chaos for ACC chaos would be fun, especially if we got some weird year where like Clemson got screwed by a tie breaker

With the divisions ending this year, we can now crown Virginia Tech the Coastal Division King and Clemson the Atlantic:

- VT 6x winner ('05, '07, '08, '10, '11, '16)
- GT 4x winner
- Pitt 2x winner
- the other 4 teams have 1 each

- Clemson 7x winner
- FSU 5x winner
- BC 2x winner
- WF 2x winner

Niziolek wrote a quick article about it, with some thoughts from Whit.

he (Whit) was happy with the three different scenarios he was presented during the discussions including the one that was ultimately voted on.

i would love to know the other two options that he was presented!

personally, very happy we didn't get BC, very disappointed we didn't get miami. but no matter what they did, there would be reason to complain. i like that the schools we got are all within pretty easy driving distance, so students can get to away games. and all are within our recruiting footprint. so i can understand how we got those three.

i think louisville makes it difficult, because there just aren't rivalries with them yet. i have no idea how they avoided pitt, syracuse, and bc. i agree with bitter though, would've made more sense if us and louisville were swapped.

will be fun if after 4 years, they change those 3 opponents, just to switch it up.

link to Niziolek's article:

Would anyone hypothetically be willing to trade Pitt or Wake for GT? There's a better familiarity between VT and GT but the other two programs are on the rise.

Touchdown Tech!!!

Honestly no. Wake and Pitt are good fits for the near future because they're good enough that beating them makes you look good, but not so good that it's impossible to beat them. Plus those are two games in areas where we will be emphasizing in recruiting (NC Triad and Western PA). Also close for travel for the team and fans. GT had a great decade long series with us because of PJ vs Bud, but that game lost a ton of steam the last few years.

Swapping a team with no fans for a team with no fans isn't very interesting. Get me a fan base with a pulse and I would drop Pitt or Wake in a heartbeat.

It's Time to go to Work

Many of y'all already know this, given the timeframe I've been following VT and my not being from Virginia, I have always viewed Miami as our primary competitive rival. Those were some of the most impactful and hotly contested games of my time as a fan. It feels like a slap in the face to not get Miami as a locked crossover. UVA, Miami, UNC would have been my three.

UVA, Miami, Wake would have been fine. UNC has too many bigger rivals for us to get them.

They are the least important of my 3 by a distance. I would have had no complaints about any 3 as long as they included UVA and Miami.

I'm certainly also somewhat bummed about Miami not being one of our three just because of the history and significance of that game for us. I'm sure Miami fans feel the same way. But I think for the next few years, I can live with them being only every other year. Pry needs a few years to recruit and build his program out of the crater he was left. Miami is in a position to rebound a lot faster than we are with their recruiting/NIL advantages. If we had Miami as a permanent, that means we would play them plus FSU/Clemson every year, then throw in programs like UNC, Pitt, NC State that are really solid. There's a likelihood we could play 4 or more of those in a year. Pry would really have a tough time building the program up with a schedule like that, as this will be a few years' process. We will still get Clemson or FSU every year along with Miami/UNC/NC State every other year, add in Pitt and Wake annually which makes for a more challenging schedule than we typically have in the coastal. I'm hopeful maybe by 2026 when this arrangement expires, VT football will be built to being back in championship discussions and our permanents can be reshuffled to get Miami back on. In the short term I'm ok with this to give us some time build and give us a shot to be more competitive early on. Nothing good will come from us being 6-6 or 7-5 at best in Pry's first few years.

so would you have taken uva, miami, bc instead of uva, pitt, wake?

I get that Miami is a long standing competitive rival to VT but I think I would have been angrier about being stuck with BC than I am about losing Miami. I hated the BC permanent cross over - it made no sense, outside of them being BE members once upon a time and joining the ACC around the same time as VT.

I hate Pitt too, FWIW, but it's not quite as egregious. I had proposed a similar scheduling structure some time back where each team gets 4 permanent rivals (ND is sent packing) and the other 4 (or 5, in a 9 game league format - either would work) games are on a rotating basis with the rest of the teams in the league. In that model, I had VT's permanent opponents as Duke, GT, Miami, and UVA. That leaves 9 teams left to play on a rotating basis. That way, each team gets to play almost every team in the league twice in a 4 year cycle (and each team at least once).

Onward and upward

Yes, I would trade ANY grouping for any combo of "UVA, Miami, x." I hated the BC locked crossover as well, but Miami is important enough to me to trade it for any combo.

The only one that would give me pause would be "UNC, Clemson, UVA." that one is personal as well because it would give me very nearby VT game to attend every other year, plus UNC, who I dislike.

I would be good with your four-locked model.

so would you have taken uva, miami, bc instead of uva, pitt, wake?

Yes, not even a question IMO.

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Yes and twice on Sundays. Any 3rd opponent to go with UVA and Miami would have been fine with me but those should have been givens

Go for it

Yup not being from VA, WVU was the rivalry for me.

Last time there were no divisions in the ACC, the de facto championship game was played between...Miami and VT. No idea what to take from that, just throwing it out there.

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

Miami definitely fell off soon after while Tech dominated the conference for many years, but I will always believe our instant success in the league was from playing a more physical brand of football in the BE that the softer ACC was not used to. No surprise it came down to Miami-VT in 2004.

I also recall we were picked to finish something like 7th or 8th in the ACC in our first year by the media.

Bryan Randall was the man that year.

I'm still better about the NC State loss that year

Last time there were no divisions in the ACC

Championship game

Warning: this post occasionally contains strong language (which may be unsuitable for children), unusual humor (which may be unsuitable for adults), and advanced mathematics (which may be unsuitable for liberal-arts majors)..

You're forgetting 2020 when ND played Clemson in the ACCCG.

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And now I'm starting to think this schedule will never be played.

This is my school
This is home

It might last 2-3 years max. It's all gonna change. The gears are already machinating behind the scenes.

Pain is Temporary, Chicks Dig Scars
Glory is Forever, Let's Go Hokies!!

Does the phrase "overcome by events" apply now that it appears realignment has been reignited? Anyone got that phone number to the $EC front office?

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

I found a website that calculates driving miles between cities, and tabulated the results between ACC schools.
Next I sorted the proximity of each school, then set up my version of what the permanent rivals should look like (not the ACC asked my opinion, or that it may matter after conference realignment is done!).
My goals were:
Evenly distribute driving distances (more fans traveling to games)
Maintain existing and jump-start near-by rivalries (more fans)
Group private schools
Group Ag/Tech & Liberal Arts schools
(I couldn't find the instructions for inserting a table, but will update if someone provides them...TKP needs a link to Help Files hint,hint)
Here's my results:
Team: Permanent Rivals Driving Miles Total
* BC: Pitt Syr UVA 571 310 556 1437
Clem: FSU, GT, VT 392 124 296 812
* Duke: Lou, Syr, WF 549 625 83 1257
FSU: Clem, GT, Miami 392 333 338 1063
GT: Clem, FSU, Miami 124 333 663 1120
Lou: Duke, UNC, Pitt 549 539 402 1490
* Miami: FSU, GT, WF 338 663 809 1810
NCSU: UNC, VT, WF 32 104 223 359
UNC: Lou, NCSU, UVA 539 32 190 761
Pitt: BC, Lou, Syr 571 402 364 1337
* Syr: BC, Duke, Pitt 310 625 364 1299
UVA: BC, UNC, VT 149 190 556 895
VT: Clem, NCSU, UVA 296 223 149 668
* WF: Duke, Miami, NCSU 83 809 104 996
Max 1810
Avg 1093
Min 359
StDev 380

The ACC permanent partners, by comparison, give these driving mileages:
Max 2917
Avg 1130
Min 121
StDev 841


Team Permanent Rival 1 Permanent Rival 2 Permanent Rival 3 Total
Boston College Pittsburgh 531 mi Syracuse 310 mi LOLUVA 556 mi 1437 mi
Virginia Tech LOLUVA 69 mi Miami 69 mi GT 69 mi 420 mi

Start here and knock yourself out

Onward and upward

Anybody wanna bet $5 that this 3-5-5 model never happens due to realignment wars?

VTCC '86 Delta Company, Hokie in Peru, Former Naval Aviator, Former FBISA, Forever married to my VT87 girl. Go VT!

Every summer like clockwork, the ACC makes what they believe to be a big announcement only to be completely tea bagged and ham-sandwiched by the B1G and/or SEC about a week later.

Last year it was UT and OU to SEC, this year it's UCLA and USC to B1G.

Big lolz...

Next week it is Georgia, LSU, and Bama from the SEC to the ACC.