Was talking about this with a friend the other day and Chris makes the point with an image even more apparent. Why aren't we seeing a season ticket sales bump under a new coach with a decent home schedule? Lackluster ticket sales and attendance at games has pretty big ripples across the entire athletic department from budget to recruiting etc.
Available season tickets. People always ask me about "why isn't there a new coach recruiting bump?" Well, why isn't there a "new coach ticket sales bump?" WVU, UVA and Miami are on the home schedule. pic.twitter.com/XTHQuGFbYl— Chris Coleman (@ChrisColemanTSL) July 19, 2022
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Fuente damage has lead people to other venues and activities. Hell, I got to where I didn't even watch on tv.
That said I bought tix to WVU & Miami. And I think we get on the right side of W's & L's a little bit, and the stands will fill back up.
This feels like such a mid tier program response from the fan base. I lived in Columbus during some down years of anOSU and they still rushed to buy season tickets and at least show up to most of the games. I always feel like Tech is behind the game anyway with where it sits in the state and it's recent history as a program compared to others and this only adds to the hurdles the team and athletic department has to clear.
Comparing us to OSU is a little absurd.
Fan support is fan support. UCF sold out season tickets last year and will again this year. Tech has the fan base or should to sell out season tickets even in uncertain or down years.
The key difference there is that UCF has actually put a team on the field that people want to watch.
People's priorities have changed over the last several years, for all sorts of very real and very important reasons.
I live in Scottsdale, AZ, so I'm obviously not buying season tickets. But with that said, I barely even watch them on TV anymore. I wouldn't question someone's fandom just because they don't want to spend a bunch of $$ on a weekend to go watch something that isn't enjoyable.
the other key differences are that UCF's stadium seats ~20k fewer people than Lane, UCF's student enrollment is about double tech's, and UCF is located in a metropolitan area with a 2020 census population approaching 2.7m people
I would say those are some pretty sizeable differences. It's like comparing apples to elephants.
Well, we all already know those facts. I was t trying to give Fireman a hard time on the simple math.
The key is still that they have put a winning product on the field that people want to watch. Virginia Tech has not. Lane Stadium would be full if the Hokies were winning.
As someone who didn't go to Tech I have trouble grasping that though. Ive always viewed Tech as a "big" football program one that has reached the top games in the country. But this idea that fans will only come out if the team is good enough or hell even just shell out the money to buy even if they don't attend every game to be not reflective of that big time program fan base. There are other programs that don't sit in major metro areas or don't have massive current student enrollment that sell out or come close to selling out season tickets. Is this just a further snowballing of Tech falling further behind schools that we used to be peers of?
Change is hard. We've gone from a legend that put us in a bowl every year, owned the Town, and put banners around the stadium to our second coach since. Nevermind the pandemic too. And the changes to tailgating over the past few years. It's getting more and more difficult to justify making the trek.
It's a complex, multifaceted issue that is impacted by Tech's recent performance, the college football landscape, recent economic/cultural things, and technological changes. It's not just one thing.
With the location of Blacksburg also being a major inhibitor.
I would ask you to look at fan fatigue from Fuente. During seasons where Bama & Sparty couldn't keep students in the stadium after halftime with big leads, we had fans going nuts in the 4th while we were trailing ECU.
It takes a LOT of let down to kill that kind of fan base.
He did it. And many TKP'r said they weren't renewing until he was gone. It just took too long to get him gone. Now it's just going to take a little time to turn it around. It's a carrier, not a PT boat.
The fans are nowhere near any of the primary reasons that our football team is no longer regularly winning 10+ games every season.
I did go to VT. During the time that CFB was nearly fired. There was passion for the team, but there was a great deal of cynicism for VT's knack for playing 3 solid quarters of football (we didn't speak about the 4th quarters...). That cynicism reestablished itself over the past few years. A new coach and an offseason isn't enough to reverse that. Getting back in contention, will. The ball is in Pry's court, and I'm pulling for him to knock it out of the park.
it's always amusing to me when people conflate two different sports analogies
* And I'm pulling for him to boot it through the uprights.
I hope he serves up an ace of a first year, it'll be an opportunity for this program to get a mulligan.
maybe he can win all 3 of the 4 game series. We'll call it a hat trick.
Am hoping the KFC will get Jobu to help him finally hit that curveball.
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate." - Captain Zapp Brannigan
Bingo!
As a current grad student at UCF while all technically true it doesn't account for the "vibe" so to speak on the ground. Orlando like a lot of major metro areas outside maybe Columbus doesn't pay a lot of attention to college sports in their town (although UCF actually sits outside Orlando). UCF football is a new kid on the block and while they have had good seasons they are G5 team. I would hope Tech alums and fans wouldn't need pressure to just buy season tickets or show up to a few games. All the reasons on here are true, cost, apathy, distance, bad teams, subpar stadium experience I just assumed Hokie Nation would do what Nebraska fans have done for decades, or Iowa fans, or Ole Miss and show up and show out for the most part.
Look at the areas you have offered up. What do they have outside college football to offer, to compete for the dollar? Not much at all. No professional sports teams within the main core fan base area. Look at the 95 corridor from Richmond thru Philly. Not only professional teams, but other universities (that kids are attending) and other cultural stuff to draw the dollar. Plus investment of time.
Let's be honest, we are still a young program so to speak. In '92, 30 years ago (gulp) we were 2-8-1. Nebraska had won 2 national titles by then and would win 3 of the next 5. THAT draws people in. Oh, and Ole Miss had won 3 by '92 as well and perfected tailgating while we were trying to hold a 4th quarter lead.
This right here.
Rather than comparing our ticket sales to teams like OSU and UCF, you should be looking more at teams that have been barely .500 for the past 4 years
Does this not reinforce Hokie Fireman's point?
All fanbases think they're special, but most mid-tier ones become apathetic when things are going bad.
We are "behind" on wearing orange and maroon and having a bird mascot too I suppose.
Let's no get into how much our colors have drifted from what they truly should be.
Our cheerleaders have been wearing UVA colors for a few seasons now..
I have 2 maroon shirts that say "Virginia Tech" in orange on the chest. One from circa 2008 and one from the last 5 years. The new one looks like garbage and definitely not the right colors. The orange is approaching neon red.
One of the athletic programs' instagram accounts recently posted about new banners on the outside of Lane and the "orange" on them is just straight up red. The "free" ACC basketball champions flags were the same shade of red, on top of those being one of the lowest quality items I've ever seen. Just charge me $5-10 more and make it something I'm not going to throw in the trash. This stuff should be easy, but ever since our athletic rebrand our gear has gone in the toilet. End of rant.
Turns around to look at the banner. Dang, you're right. That is not our orange. Details matter.
And let's not overlook inflationary cost. It's been a world of hurt just to fill the tank for the last few months.
The on field product last year was garbage and not to rain on everyone's parade but it won't be that much better this year either. If I didn't live 90 minutes from Blacksburg I'd heavily reconsider my tickets
I live in Cburg. It made the decision easier but if I don't see actual improvement over the year I might cancel for next year.
For the first time since 93 when sitting at a couple games last year, I wasn't enjoying myself and thinking there were better uses of my time.
A couple of other factors could be factoring into poor sales:
A. Record Inflation?
B. Gas prices for travel.
C. COVID lingering (not trying to open that can of worms)
D. Lot of pessimism over the current teams chances (projecting 6-6 anybody?)
If the team was good, people would find ways to save money elsewhere and still make it out to the stadium for game days, much like we did from 2008-2011 or so when we went through the last big recession. COVID is really not showing to be a big deterrent elsewhere in society, with most people just kind of accepting the risks now in their everyday lives.
At the end of the day, the team just isn't very good and people don't want to spend time and money on a product that is subpar to what they expect. Everything else is an excuse, the same kind of excuses we hear from Miami on why Canes games are never sold out (there is more to do, stadium is too far away, blah blah blah).
Bingo. Back in the day, the only home games you worried about were Pitt being a pain in the ass perhaps and Miami. We whipped everyone elses ass on the regular. Now, you drive 5-6 hours to Lane and Wake, Liberty, ODU, NC State, Duke are toss ups. BC is hope and pray we can beat them, and Pitt is a loss. We don't beat Miami anymore either unless they have 5 turnovers or a total bonehead coach. This program is a shell of what it was in every way.
This right here ^.
If I lived within maybe a 2 hour drive of Blacksburg, I'd get season tickets this for sure. But I live 6.5 hours away, so I am not going to be investing that kind of time + money in something that is likely to still cause a lot of heartburn and anger this year, lol
Living in Richmond, the round trip drive for home games is 500 miles; at 30 mpg that's about 17 gallons of gas which at even the slightly lower $4.25 a gallon here lately means gas cost for a single game is about472 (485v if it goes back up to $5/gal). I make decent money and it is 2 of us so that helps and we still get season tickets and plan to attend all games.(even might try to make ALL the games given the close proximity of all our away game in even years-did that in 2016 only missing the Syracuse game(thank God lol)).
But for those with kids and the extra expenses those involve or those who are less fortunate than I am income-wise, I can certainly understand the hesitance to get season tickets-particularly with inflation raising all their other expenses.
the formatting of your post is a little wonky, I'll just clear it up
17 gallons x $5.00 = $85
17 gallons x $4.25 = $72.25
for comparison to a while back:
17 gallons x $3.25 = $55.25
so it's an extra $17-30 per game in gas money
People aren't skipping games to save $30. A weekend in Blacksburg can easily be over a grand (travel, hotel rooms for 2 nights, food, tickets, concessions, etc) and a lot of effort (you have to plan ahead, especially if you don't have a place to crash).
$30 isn't making/breaking anyone's decision.
Eventually even a straw can break the camel's back.
This right here. A weekend of football is NOT cheap. Hotel rooms are crazy expensive (if you can even find a room) and require a two night minimum. Tickets aren't too hard to come by and gas is getting cheaper so there's a bit of a break there. Dealing with 81 is always a PITA.
All so you can come to Blacksburg and see a team that's got a 50-50 shot of beating an opponent who historically we should have wiped the floor with.
One of the reasons that for all the complaints, I'm glad of the Hokies playing in Norfolk to start off the season. No hotel, no travel, no additional food costs... hopefully a better result this time around.
Hell, with the new EV, no gas costs and I could even avoid the toll if I wanted to go out of my way.
just curious, which EV did you get? When did you get it? How do you like it?
I got a Chevy Bolt EV. Headed into week 3 of owning it now and I love it. I had been driving an '09 Scion so it is a big step up feature-wise. It is crazy quiet and I'm really enjoying the 1 pedal driving feature. Just had my level 2 charger installed at the house so it has relieved the little bit of range anxiety I had.
My biggest complaint is that I have a car payment again after being without one for a while now. Ended up with a decent rate through the credit union though despite the recent jumps. I was also able to avoid paying a "market adjustment" fee by checking in with a bunch of different dealerships over a week or two. If you are looking for a vehicle in Hampton Roads, go by Duke Automotive in Suffolk. Their overall lack of bullshit is a huge selling point. Really happy with the experience after dealing with a bunch of other dealers.
To me, how good the team is never (directly) factors into my decision to see a game. I want to see good games against good teams. I'm okay going to VT/Clemson expecting us to get blownout. I don't have much interest in seeing us kick the shit out of directional Michigan.
No it is not. I think we're at or just over $1,000 in flights, hotel, rental car, tickets and parking cost for the WVU game. Now, we only get to go to a game once a year because of time allowances, but it's always $1K at least, especially if the 3 kids come with us.
To be fair, we did end up extending the stay for an extra night so we could visit friends and then go see my old team play on Friday in Roanoke, so that cost more than planned originally- about $75 for the car and another $165 for the extra hotel night in Roanoke. Interesting enough, the hotel did not require 2 nights to begin with. But gas from/back to Charlotte, plus food while we're there (including the obligatory turkey legs at Lane) is going to easily push us higher.
There are certainly cheaper ways to do it versus our plan, like not living 15 driving hours away from your favorite school, not picking the most popular-or one of the top 3 most popular-games of the year, etc. But even to go to a game in Tallahassee for us is close to, if not right at, $1K.
I went to every away game one year for less than it cost to donate to get season tickets +tickets in 2009
Bama - flight ~$200, Ticket scalped $25, Hotel $100.
Duke - Flight $220, Tickets ~$5
GT - Flight $0 (voucher from business travel), Tickets $25
ECU - Flight $220, tickets free
UMd - Gas ~$10 maybe, Tickets $35
UVA - Gas ~$25, tickets $100
~$965 for all away games. I couldn't do that in Blacksburg.
Damn! That had to be a fun year!
Well almost, I skipped the bowl game because I didn't want to see us lose in Atlanta a 3rd time. Seeing that twice was enough.
Makes sense. But just the travel and experiences alone would be worth it.
Yeah, it was great. Right after college I was talking to this girl who thought it was terrible that I'd go on these trips (I've been to about 50 NCAA stadiums for games and haven't been to a new one in atleast 5 years). She wouldn't allow any man of hers to do something like that. She thought it was about the football. But it wasn't, it never has been, it's always been about the friends the relationships. I'd go see nephews and then go to the game with a friend, then back to nephews. It's about the relationships and getting out of the house. Eating good food, meeting interesting people.
So I spent a lot of time with my friends and family that fall so it was an amazing fall.
100% agree with this.
I did the same in 2016- saw all the games including the ACC championship game and the bowl game --except the Syracuse game n the dome(which naturally I was NOT unhappy to have missed lol). Under the current scheduling, even years were always easier since some of the away games were closer to me from Richmond than home games in Blacksburg.(away at Duke, UNC, ) and many others only a 5-6 hour or so drive or less(Pitt, Battle at Bristol, Belk Bowl in Charlotte)- little longer for GA Tech and Notre Dame but still drivable. Nothing I couldn't drive to easily(BC or Miami). Obviously being a winning year at 10-4 made it even better.
I would add the potential for the ACC to become completely irrelevant due to losing the TV revenue wars. So the "What's the point?" factor.
Maybe with the cost of gas, uncertainty about inflation/COVID/etc people are just not as willing to spend a lot of money on something that isn't a sure thing.
Trying to compare LOLUVA and UNC sales but their websites say I'm a suspicious user.
As someone from NC who has never gotten season tickets, I still usually make the trek up to Blacksburg for a game or two.
With three games in the Triangle this year, I might drive up for the UVA game, but even that isn't set in stone.
We warned about fan apathy years ago as to why you have to bite the bullet and make a coaching change when things are clearly not working.
This is what it looks like.
Thankfully, we caught it relatively early, so there is time to get it back.
Its not just us though....
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/college-football-attenda...
But a better product sells better. Cinci just sold out for the first time ever.
That's an interesting note that if we were to join the SEC, sell out Lane every game, we would actually bring the average down
which is why Average Attendance is weir and misleading -- strongly influenced by realignment. recording what percentage of capacity is filled is better way to look at it i think
I HATE when they say that we "sold out" a game because inevitably I'll show up and we haven't. North sections of South are still empty, seats in the indoor club are empty, and even top sections of East are empty.
Nebraska 'sells out' their games - boosters buy up the extra tickets, and the athletic department gives them away to underprivileged youth in the state. It's a new program implemented in part to keep the sellout streak alive, but I think it's pretty cool.
Yeah, some games you wonder. But being sold out doesn't mean everyone will show. Also, top of the East above the student section is generally not packed because the students all pack in tight in the lower seats leaving the top more spread out.
90% economy, 10% fan insecurity about quality of the product.
"WVU, UVA and Miami are on the home schedule."
I mean, I don't doubt that those games are going to sell tickets. It's more likely people are thinking they'll be available as single game tickets.
If I had the financial capability to buy season tickets I would. With this economy and oncoming recession I can't justify dumping that much money into season tickets. And if I could move stuff around to make it work I would, but again that much money for just football tickets isn't a wise move.
I am even having trouble pulling the trigger for single game tickets, and I've been looking forward to going to the WVU game for a long time now.
Brother I hear ya. I pulled the trigger on WVU because it's a Thursday night and I can get my oldest a VTCC tour that Friday & we can hit VMI for a tour Saturday.
I pulled the trigger on Miami because I wanted my gf to experience a good Tech game. She's a Vols fan, (I'm still teaching her to read & such) & thought she would enjoy the experience.
My cousin is a Mountaineer (lol) and he has been to one Tech game when we played Pitt and had the goal line stand. I really want to show him a Thursday night crowd at Tech.
I am sad I have but one leg to give for this.
I remember going to a Tenn- Miami game 15 like 20 years ago. I believe it was McGahee who broke a 76 yard run and Miami fans cheered loudly (all like 500 of them) amd then UT stopped them and forced a FG. No cheering. Those Miami fans were louder than UT fans. They have a 100k stadium and the opposing team is louder, WTF!
Does the VTCC still offer "Spend the Night with The Corps" opportunities? I'm just saying, that Thursday would be a great night to do it and they could probably get him in with minimal shenanigans. Saves you a ticket and he gets an up close look at some of the most fun Cadets get to have!
Coleman should be happy. He can get in for season tickets before the greedy evil huge donors scalp the good games for market price and not charity.
I chuckled. Leg.
To add to this, the cost of secondhand single game tickets has gotten out of hand. I was looking into getting tickets to the VT ODU game. This is in Norfolk with a lower tier G5 program and a rebuilding Tech squad. 4 tickets was going to cost over $800! I was searching through Vivid seats, they added close to $45/ ticket and labeled it a "service fee". That is absurd and Vivid can go jump off a bridge.
Use TickPick, no service fees (and no the base ticket prices aren't higher/have fees built in)... why people still use other sites like Vivid and StubHub where they make you pay absurd fees, is beyond me.
Every time I find a ticket on StubHub, I look to see if it's available on TickPick (which 90% of the time it is) and it's always 20-30% cheaper on TickPick since they don't add BS fees
Thank you! I had never heard of TickPick
EDIT: Gotta throw more thanks to you! September 2nd is the start of my brother's birthday weekend and we had to cancel going to the game due to the cost. I just bought tickets through TickPick and he has no idea. He's gonna be jacked when I surprise him!
Glad I could help! Sometimes SeatGeek is another good option too (instead of StubHub/Vivid/etc.)... I spoke with a TickPick rep before and they told me they only take fees from the seller, never the buyer.
You, sir, are the best of brothers!
Thank you! We can't pick our siblings but I love that asshole lol!
At that price it would be cheaper to buy ODU season tickets and sell the rest of the tickets at cost.
We did that for the first one and yes it was!
That's an absurd cost. I just got an email from ODU where they were selling a 3 game package that included VT, Marshall and someone else for like $125.
maybe its because everyone dumped their money for season tickets into flat donations to take care of the buyout...
on a personal note I have never had season tickets since graduating. The reason(s) for not having season tickets has changed over the years, but now its primarily an issue of how I need to invest my time. With young kids I can't justify at a minimum a whole day commitment that otherwise should be going to the family instead (and I'm the only invested in sports, let alone Hokie football)... plus the idea of having to able to drive, and most likely angry, for 5 hours just isn't appealing.
Not to be a Debbie downer, but there is really no mystery to this. We've just been flat out BAD for several years now. We are coming off back-to-back losing seasons. We have finished 3 out of the last 4 seasons with a losing record. Since 2018, we've lost by 20 or more points on 8 occasions; 30 or more points on 4 occasions; and 40 or more points once. To make matters worse, these blowout losses are not coming at the hands of Clemson or Notre Dame, but Duke, Pittsburgh, Maryland, and Georgia Tech. We lost to Old Dominion. We lost to Liberty. We were an offsides penalty on an onside kick away from potentially going to overtime or losing to Furman at home. We struggled to put away Richmond and Rhode Island at home. We never had a chance last year against a Boston College team that finished the year with a 2-6 record in the ACC. We also lost at home to a Syracuse team that finished the year with a 2-6 record in the ACC, with their only other win being over that same Boston College team that threw us around like a cat playing with a dead mouse. To use an old NRV Radio analogy, our program went from being the Shelor Motor Mile to JW's Auto World. No matter how you look at it, the product we put on Worsham Field under Fuente for the last 4 years absolutely stunk. Were this not enough, he mismanaged the roster so badly that even Coach Pry admitted recently that we're one offensive tackle injury away from an "oh shit," situation (seriously, look at the depth chart). Finally, while WVU, Miami, and UVA are exciting home games, we only have 6 this year (rather than the standard 7), and the other 3 are absolute snoozers against Wofford, BC, and GT (the latter two of which we are hardly guaranteed to win). So, while I live in NC and still buy season tickets, it's not that hard to figure out why many other Hokies are just saying "the hell with it." At a certain point, this becomes a "what's the definition of insanity?" situation, especially given what's going on with the economy, gas prices, hotel prices, etc.
Nail on the frickin head.
Quite frankly, the main reason I've been going to games is because my wife LOVES it and we're close enough that we don't have to spend the night. It's easy to fly down and back for just the game from where we live(d), first in Norfolk and now in Hooville. I'll still get excited on game day, but man did that excitement fade fast when we started playing. I can't fault people who look at the time and money investment required to go to a game and go..."meh, nope". Hell, I've got some friends coming back to the Wofford game and we found an awesome house on Claytor Lake and folks have jokingly said, "hmm...how about watching the game from here?".
That's what I'm talking about. There and back in a day for the win.
Never mind. That is not, in fact, what I'm talking about.
Lol, it's different now that we're in Charlottesville, but we still had a couple of games when we lived in Norfolk where we had to drive and were able to make it a day trip.
I've done ECU and Duke from Norfolk as a day trip. The Duke game was a late night drive home though along 58. I saw more deer in that one drive than I have seen my entire life and am convinced all of them were just waiting for a chance to fling themselves in front of my car.
IT isn't just the ticket prices. I live in Chesapeake and the round trip is not doable in a day after tailgating and watching a game! So then you have to figure in the outrageous prices of a place to stay and most with a 2 night minimum!
The location of Blacksburg turns catching a game in person into an event that takes up the entire weekend and the product on the field is flat out not good. Many people don't want to give up that much of their time off for something that isn't terribly fun anymore. When we get back to winning it will be different but I'll spend my fall and winter weekends in the woods for now.
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!1!!
But seriously, I don't see this as terribly surprising. The product has been bad for years and it's not likely to be better right away. I think I saw another poster use the idiom "once bitten, twice shy" which I think is appropriate. Fans are kind of in wait-and-see mode with Pry. Fuente was lauded as the 'hire of the off-season' back in 2016 and he turned out to be a big, big bust. He did a tremendous amount of damage to VT football and I don't blame most fans for seeing Pry, with no HC experience, bringing in a staff of coaches who don't have a ton of experience (particularly at the coordinator spots) as potentially Fuente 2.0. Pry will need to win and do so consistently, especially against the teams that we "should" beat for fans to start feeling comfortable with paying for the product on the field. And most people are already reserved to the "fact" that 2022 is going to be a tough, tough season for VT. Couple that with the ACC being left behind in the conference re-alignment business and the current climate of the economy, it's no wonder people aren't chomping at the bit to buy season tickets.
I agree with all of this.
That being said, I think we'll still see a full Lane this year. We're just going to have to lean on single game ticket sales more than we have needed to in the past, with more discounts or giveaways needed to get fans into the game. I know I am expecting to come back for a game for the first time since before COVID and suspect I'm not alone there, even if I know I am not coming up to all home games.
Maybe I can get some reasonable tickets to a single game and take the youngsters. Now will I be able to get a hotel for less than $600? When the price for a family of 4 to attend one game starts to approach the price of a new TV, attendance is going to drop. Bowl games too, way too expensive.
Get a hotel 45 min away and the price will be much more reasonable. Staying in Bburg is ridiculous on game weekends.
But then you have to stay sober... Unless there are ubers/rideshares that can you to/from bburg nowadays?
It's probably possible but my last Uber that got me from DT Blacksburg back to my hotel up by Lewis-Gale was nearly $50. I couldn't fathom what a ride back to Roanoke would cost
I was in Chicago for work this week and had 3 ubers that were over $80 (not including tip). $50 each way to save hundreds on lodging - not to mention the ability to spend the whole day drinking - isn't a bad tradeoff.
I would also think conference realignment and NIL has lead to some apathy. The ACC feels like it will be left for dead and programs with bigger budgets are taking the top talent (TX Tech just signed a deal to give all players $25k each!!). It is hard to see VT getting back to being a top tier program. I will still watch every game and go to as many as I can in person, but it's hard to get excited with CFB these days unless you are Bama, OSU, Clemson, UGA, etc.
To be honest, I don't think the average fan is that plugged into realignment or NIL. There are definitely some boomers yelling at clouds over NIL/Portal/Realignment, but I don't think that's driving much apathy.
I do think the CFP (or rather - the media's coverage of the season) is contributing to apathy - ESPN and College Gameday control so much of the narrative around the sport. From week 1, they start talking about the playoff. There's 132ish teams in FBS. About 60 teams don't have a chance at the playoff no matter. About 45 teams will be eliminated after their first loss. There's about 25 teams that can absorb a single loss and still make the playoff.
Now, I am NOT one of these people who think that the college football season doesn't matter if you don't/can't make the playoff. I hop in for the ride every season because I enjoy the weirdness, the debate, the pagentry, and the upsets. I enjoy the season while believing that VT will never again compete for a natty in football, and that doesn't bother me.
But not everyone is that way. And when the media - for 6 straight seasons - does nothing but talk about the playoff... it can get exhausting.
25 teams that can absorb a loss seems high ...
100% on board that the playoff talk ruins CFB. Build up the 2nd tier teams that are having great seasons. I hate ESPNs announcers, I hate CFB talking heads, I just watch ganes any more cause the rest just sucks.
Any SEC team can go 12-1 and will be in the playoff - that's 14 teams right there. The majority of the B10 would be in the same boat. Probably 10 other schools that have a schedule where they could afford to drop one game
I did think about that, but a 12-1 vandy who played the crapiest teams from the west, lost to UGA and the rest of the east was mediocre is a tough sell ... similar NW, Indiana, Illinois, Rutgers all would have issues depending on who they beat.
I mean ESPN would push the hell out of the SEC, but USC, Clemson, and OU all go undefeated this year then B1G 1 loss vs SEC 1 loss is tough call
12-1 Vandy either (a) went undefeated in the SEC east in the regular season (this has a win over UGA), or (b) has one regular season loss, still won the division, and won the SEC.
The only way a 12-1 SEC champ isn't getting a bid is if every other P5 conference champ is undefeated.
If UGA loses to Bama and LSU and Vandy loses to UGA it still goes ... Yes they had to beat a good west team but they really could get by with no really good wins.
There's a lot of things that factor into this:
All of these things are contributing interrelated factors. It's also worth noting that college football attendance has been declining across FBS for seventh straight years and is at the lowest average since 1981.
I get the feeling that college football has lost some of its appeal due to the recent money grab by the SEC and BIG for most people. now if you are in one of those conferences you like it but if not why care? People have the feeling that you can't win no matter what and it kills excitement. I'm not arguing whether it's true or not, but when the talking heads keep saying that if you are outside the conferences that you are obsolete people start believing it. Hard to sell tickets when you feel like you aren't even eligible for a title.
Yes, there is an issue, and I think everyone has hit the several nails into the cross. Pry literally has to resurrect the program. It won't take 3 days, maybe 3 years.
I live in Pennsylvania. No way with the gas price and inflation. I donated to the "start jumping" club or whatever it was called and donated $22.22 to get the basketball garden flag. Now I get a thing in the mail that I'm a "Hokie Club" member and no donation is too small lol. Got a free magnet and stickers though.
College football is turning into leagues without salary caps. Not interested in watching the monied out spending the moneyless, ala the Yankees.
Are we really behind in ticket sales, though? Do we know what ticket sales were like at this point last year? I'd be shocked if we really were behind last year's sales, given the apathy that was growing under Fuente.
The way they phrased it is more about there not being a significant bump.
But it seems to me that the mood/economy is a lot more threatening than last year at this time, so there may be factors at play other than simply the coaching change.
Last years tickets sales were probably misleading, I think 70% of the season ticket holders let our covid tickets ride until last year. The season tickets had been paid for the previous year.
Impending recession and layoffs has lots of people being a lot more cautious with their discretionary spending. I know my family is really thinking hard about our purchases and what is a necessity even though my wife and I both have good jobs right now. After the last few years of seeing people blindsided by layoffs I dont take it for granted that things will stay good.
"my family is really thinking hard about our purchases and what is a necessity even though my wife and I both have good jobs right now. After the last few years of seeing people blindsided by layoffs I don't take it for granted that things will stay good."
Wise move. We are in the same boat. Hope most others think the same way.
A lot of - I think correct - comments on inflation and economic uncertainty being a big factor in people not buying tickets. This article just showed up on my LinkedIn feed. Talks about how the cost of many entertainment venues have gone way up beyond the base rate of inflation. Interestingly, parking is often what has jumped the most. Not directly tied to VT or college sports, but gives some background on the economic choices people have had to make relative to the 1960s. And this article probably does not even cover the changes in the last few months as that should be too recent to have done the analysis. Link here:
https://thehustle.co/americas-favorite-family-outings-are-increasingly-o...
Inflation is definitely playing a role. I work for a food retailer in the Northeast. The cost of goods for our products has increased by 10% year over year. And that's before increased transportation or labor costs. Yet, retail sales across the food industry are only up 6% year over year. People are looking for lower cost alternatives. If that kind of change is impacting necessities such as food - it definitely is impacting discretionary spoending such as season tickets.
I think it is a mixture of economic conditions, apathy, and technology.
Gas is a factor for everyone. Long trips have to be worth it. Last few years, home games aren't worth it (to me).
The easier it is to stream games and watch live will detract from sales. Who wouldn't want to be fishing, camping, whatever you enjoy and experience the game live in that moment rather than attending the game be the moment.
I went to 1 game last year. This season we (as a family) are going to 1 game also (BC). I feel like we had to be there for the first home game of Pry.
I did bite on the South Endzone promos. Going to the WVU game with a work bud (90s hat looks spot on) and trying to work on travel timing for the Miami to get that 276 on an official item!
So, I do think season tickets will drop some when the major games are being sold cheap as a promo. The increased costs of season tickets since the per seat donation was added has finally caught up to the consumers. We gave up our season tickets in 2018.
If Pry has a decent to great season, sales will pick up.
Succinct and well put.
Had season tickets last year, but I live in FL, so tough to make every game and this year'sresale market is going to be tough.
Got individual tickets for Miami this year - 50yd line with no seat donation. Trying to make WVU work as well. It's way cheaper to buy individual game tickets in down years.
Except - have you seen next year's home schedule? Gonna be tough to sell that.
How are you getting from FL to Blacksburg. That's limiting my trips up.
We (well, my wife surprised me with) just booked our trip for the WVU game (hate to look at what she paid for tix).
We're driving from Naples to Orlando Thursday morning, fly out of MCO at 10:51, into CLT at 12:35, renting a car and driving in. Back out of CLT at 1:25 the next day. Not ideal, but a helluva lot cheaper than 1- driving up in the truck and 2- flying into Roanoke.
FWIW, Allegiant flies direct flights from Orlando Sanford (SFB) to Roanoke. Might be worth looking into if you haven't bought tickets for the flight or can cancel.
We did the Spirit route because we're sneaking up for one night for the game. I have meetings Wednesday and she works Wednesday night and Saturday night, so we literally have 24 hours once we land in Charlotte. Coming back on Friday gives us breathing room if something should happen to our flight home. AND since the game is actually ON her birthday, it gives me some time Friday night to do something special for her
👍
Allegiant also flies (or used to fly) St. Pete PIE-ROA direct.
Although they only fly certain days of the week and their reliability is less than stellar.
That's one of the problems for VT fans in the Southeast that don't live in the ATL or CLT vicinity...the required connection to get to ROA makes it nearly as timely to drive. And ROA can be absurdly expensive.
Just FYI..frequently fly to ROA to visit family...on more than one occasion have found LYH flights MUCH cheaper and it's a straight shot down 460 vs. driving from CLT or GSO.
As of now, Allegiant flies from Orlando to Roanoke on Monday's and Friday's. Great for a Saturday game, not so much for a Thursday night one
Just FYI for the FL residents:
You can also fly Allegiant from Sanford to Tri-Cities (TRI) in Blountville, TN (not far from Kingsport).
I live about an 1hr 30min from TRI in Virginia. Ye olde Google says it is a 2hr 10min drive from TRI to Blacksburg.
Unsure about flight costs vs Roanoke. But I believe Allegiant runs on Thursdays between Sanford and Tri-Cities.
The airport is also just a few minutes of I-81, so the drive up is pretty straightforward.
Sanford is also a much easier airport to time and navigate. I hate that we're going out and back into MCO, but had to bc of timing. Highly recommend Sanford though! And there's a bar in there that has some ridiculously cold beer as a bonus.
Last year we usually flew Breeze from Tampa to Richmond because we have family there, borrowed a car and drove to the burg. Probably try Charlotte this time.
We live near Clearwater/St Pete, but Allegiant only flys certain days. The extra hotel stays offset the savings on the flight.
Yep that's what I'm finding looking at every airport around Jacksonville all the way down to Orlando.
... A real program that is
When Fu stopped trying, everyone else did, too. People got used to not going and now they are in wait and see mode. Gotta start kicking ass on the regular.
Looks like the WVU-VT game is sold out!
Even with the cupboard being bare and season outlook not being the greatest, I think the Hokie fan turnout for this season is going to be pretty on par with last few years...
Night/prime time games - close to sell out, if not a sell out already
Shit games (ex. Wofford) - 50-60%
Every other game - 75-80% with top of south EZ and top right of West side a little scarce
I will be surprised if the Wofford game attendance hits 50%. That 11 am kickoff is a killer. LancerHokie and I are bailing on that game because that early of a kickoff sandwiched between two night games is not worth it. Especially since we live in NoVa. 3 games in 12 days is nuts.
I'll eat it if I'm wrong, but 50% is pretty pessimistic for Wofford unless we lose to ODU. We've probably had some games skirt 50% attendance (I'll ignore the Pitt game in the rain that never happened), but in September with new coach optimism? I bet we still hit 70% for that game barring an 0-2 start to the season
That was possibly the most miserable game I've ever attended.
It's going to take a long time to undo the damage from Fuente - and while Pry very well could be exactly who we need going forward, I'd be curious what percentage of VT fans had even heard of him prior to him being announced.
This isn't a criticism, but he wasn't the buzzy (pun intended) hire that was going to juice the entire fanbase.
I had obviously known about Pry being from Lex/Rockbridge and him going to high school here. And generally knew he was a really good DC as Penn State had some great defenses. But I honestly didn't know the extent of his VT connections until his name came up in our coaching search. Coached by Bryan Stinespring at Lexington High, camped at VT, hired by Frank/Bud and coached at VT for 3 years, then was eventually hired as DC by Rickey Bustle when he left VT to be HC at UL-Lafayette. I can totally understand why he was absolutely pumped about this opportunity and think he's a fantastic fit.
I think VT is one of those schools where it really benefits to have someone with some connections to the program or the state as your head football coach. Obviously I think Saban would do well at VT, but short of getting an all time great like that, I think we need an insider who knows the culture and has the connections.
It was kind of funny in hindsight, but during the 2021 season a coworker and I were talking about if Pry would make a move to HC soon. Never thought it would end up this way at that time. I know a ton of people here in the Lex area that are super stoked about the hire and pulling for him.
What's going to juice the fanbase is winning.
100%
I *think* he's a good hire, but hard to say at this stage.
I think if we'd snagged (insert big name that was rumored here), we *may* have seen a bigger bump, but that's just speculation.
Either way, winning cures all.
I don't even know what college football is anymore to start. I do know that we have sucked hard the last several years and the last coaching staff really did its best to slowly degrade and eventually ruin any hint of good felling I had left about VT football. I love this new staff, but I am not driving that far to see a likely bowl-tweener team. Even if I was single/divorced and had no kids, I would probably not travel to a game this year. My interest in college football has been reduced more and more due to the ongoing erosion of what it once was when I enrolled at tech in '99, for good for whoever or for worse. It just is.
Buy season tickets then sell off the tickets for games you won't attend at cost.
That was my plan for Redskins season tickets.
Never seemed to work out.
as a fellow redskins fan, I am curious why you'd buy/bought season tickets? Outside of guaranteeing same seats, why not just buy single game tickets that you can go to. The price/game cost for season tickets always seem a lot higher than I can get on the secondary market.
I understand there's probably some perks like reduced concession costs and maybe parking, but I never understood why one would shell out thousands of dollars where I can jus get $30 tickets off StubHub/TickPick/Seat Geek/etc.
This has been a losing strategy lately. Most of the games struggle to find someone to pay 50% of face value.
There is no selling the shit games anywhere near cost. I do my best to make sure butts are in my seats and I at least get some loot back though. I dropped my price to $15/ticket twice last year on Sat AM and got buyers with the electronic tix. And I have 4 section 9 seats.
Didn't realize it was like that.
Come out 3-0 or 4-0 and we the fanbase will be energized. Go 2-2 and it will be a tough sell for the more casual fans.
Pseudo related, our home schedules STINK:
Our future schedule reflects us headed to G5....
Our past nonconferences schedule reflects this too. If it wasn't for ND having to play us we'd have sone truly awful schedules in the past 15 years. 2015 was amazing because we scheduled 2 p5 teams. 2009 was good but the Bama game was a one off and not home and home. I think 2005 was the last time we didn't play and FCS team (2020 too but that wasn't planned).
From a scheduling P5 OOC games for home and home, VT sucks and has done so for decades. Tennessee, WVU, Maryland are all pretty close, You could bus to Vandy, USCe, PSU and maybe Rutgers if you hate yourself.
We have only successfully played 1 of those schools in a home and home series and they were a major rival.
Around the time Whit tookover, Tech (and most of the P5 schools) realized that continuing to load the schedule with G5/FCS games - as had been done for years - was not going to mitigate the trend of declining college football attendance. Tech and many schools shifted from an OOC scheduling strategy of 1 P5, 2 G5, and 1 FCS to 2 P5, 2 G5. Games are scheduled so far out though, it takes awhile to turn that ship. Then you always run the risk of cancellations when you get closer. COVID was obviously its own curveball.
For example, look at this OOC we had lined up for 2020/2021. All these games were scheduled at least 6 years out. Then Michigan cancelled 2 years out. Then COVID hit. So we only actually got 2 of those 5 games. Womp womp.
2020: Michigan (A), Penn State (H)
2021: WVU (A), Notre Dame (H), and Michigan (H)
The good news is the only FCS team on a future schedule is VMI in 2026, and (knock on wood) that will be it because (a) we aren't looking to schedule FCS teams and (b) the only OOC opening we have prior to 2031 is the 2026 slot vacated this week by the BYU game moving to 2033. Most likely that 2026 slot will get filled with a neutral site game.
Assuming the 2026 slot gets filled with a P5, starting in 2023 we have 2 P5 OOC games scheduled every year thru 2035, with the exception of 2031 which currently has 1 P5 (Wisconsin - insert joke here) plus two OOC slots to be filled. We have home and homes scheduled with just about everyone on your list.
This is the issue. Teams have no idea how good a match up will be when it's schedule. The Tennessee vs Pitt game was scheduled in 2014. Ole Miss vs GT was also scheduled in 2014. Who knew in 2014 that Ole Miss/GT would be a snoozer? Who knew that Tennessee/Pitt could actually be interesting?
I want college football to have a scheduling day that is similar to 'match day' for med school residents. ESPN could give it just as much coverage - if not more - than the NFL draft. Imagine all of the sass and drama that would come out of it. It would be amazing.
You can't play teams that don't want to play you! If I recall at one time we had games scheduled against Penn St., Wisconsin, etc... but they all canceled on us. Fact is most teams don't want to play anyone ooc due to losses being so costly in college football rankings.
Eesh... Pretty bad when your most interesting non-con home game over the next 5 years is (insert whichever B1G school you think is best. I think it's Purdue. Although I'd like to see Vanderbilt get better)
While that does probably (hopefully...) bode well for the wins column, I can't see recruits getting excited for those if they look at that kind of stuff. "Hey, come to Virginia Tech! We'll play non-conference home games against teams like... VMI... while you're here"
Maybe I'm wrong and kids like that. Idk, just my thoughts on that one I guess.
ODU is taking up too much oxygen. Idc if we play ODU and Marshall in the same year or Rutgers and Vanderbilt the same year, but those two things should never happen at the same time. And when they do happen they should be balanced in a way that makes sense
Absolutely. And to add to it, there's something seriously wrong when we're traveling TO their stadium. Idc if they are FBS or whatever. Virginia Tech should not be traveling to ODU and Liberty. It's sickening to me
It's becoming more common. Miami, UNC, UVA and others have starting to play a game at these G5's, but for some reasons ours aren't one offs but multiple times.
that doesn't make it okay.
You know how they say "dress for the job you want, not the one you have"?
Well ACC teams are acting like G5 teams - it's no wonder we're quickly headed in that direction as a league. VT was at its best when it was playing the best teams. Just because Miami, UNC, and UVA are playing G5s doesn't make it excusable for VT to do the same. We should be playing mostly P5 teams and the non-P5 teams we play need to be in Lane. Playing road games against non-P5 teams is killing us slowly. We shouldn't be doing it and we shouldn't be excusing it because "Look, other
ACCsoon to be G5 teams are doing it"Oklahoma State at North Alabama
Wake Forest at Tulane
Syracuse at Western Michigan
Washington State at Wyoming
Indiana at FIU
North Carolina at ECU
TCU at SMU
Kansas at Central Michigan
Maryland at Bowling Green
Arizona at Houston
Arkansas at Colorado State
Utah at NIU
Baylor at UTSA
Georgia Tech at USF
Miami at Toledo
Oregon State at Nevada
Arizona State at San Diego State
A lot of these programs are on par with Tech. Scheduling has become much more difficult for a lot of teams.
G5 really has the power here, unless your a Boise or cincy, you don't need p5 games, but they need you.
I still think for an ODU/future d1 JMU, we should do no less than a 2home 1 away
Besides Maryland (lol) and Arkansas none of those teams are in the P2. 1 SEC teams and 1 B1G team. What's your point?
If VT wants to be in the SEC or B1G they had better start acting like it and not schedule road games against non-p5 teams.
You know what pretty much all of those teams have in common? If they don't find themselves in the p2 soon they will all be irrelevant in a decade. That's not good company to keep
Edit: I missed Arkansas
In the next couple season Bama plays at USF; PSU, Nebraska, Ole Miss, Kentucky, Mizzou, Vandy all plays at G5 schools.
There's nothing inherently wrong with playing at a G5 school - it's not uncommon to have a 2-for-1 where the G5 plays 2 games at a P5 stadium in return for 1 game at the G5 school. The problem is the programs we're scheduling:
Liberty is Liberty - the problems with scheduling them have been discussed ad nausem. ODU - We already have a presense in the 757 - what does playing a game get there do for us?
Instead, we should be doing 2-for-1's with Georgia State (Atlanta), Temple (Philly), or ECU (Greenville) to get more exposure in these areas. They should be 2-for-1's; not a 15 year scheduling agreement.
Georgia Southern would be a cool game, but do we need that with the GT already on the schedule? I would love a temple matchup. My roommate in grad school was a temple grad and it happens to be the only other college fight song I know all the way through. 🍒and the ⬜ yo.
We only play GT in Atlanta once every 4 years now (with the new ACC Schedule). If we want to recruit in Atlanta, it would help to have another Georgia team on the schedule - whether its UGA, Georgia State, Georgia Southern, or even an FCS school (Mercer, Savanah State).
Recruits' families want to be able to watch their kids play. This won't be a deciding factor for a 5-star or high-4-star player, but it definitely could be for a high 3-star. If (and this is a big if) we want to recruit GA/Atlanta, we should be playing there at least once every other year, which means a 2-for-1 with one of the Georgia G5s would be a great fit (again, assuming we want to recruit this part of the country).
Doing more than 3 games against any G5 school is ridiculous. The savings in the guarantee that we pay is largely offset by the fact that fans don't want to go see us play the same G5 school that many times. Rather than playing 9 games vs ODU, doing three sets of 2 for 1s vs 3 different schools would be much welcomed. Even if the schools are all on the same par as ODU, at least you get some variety.
I tend to agree. Suppose - for what ever reason - we want to play a G5 school in driving distance of tech each year. I would rather do a 2-for-1 with ODU, then Marshall, then ECU, then Navy, etc. No need to play ODU 7 times in 10 seasons.
Screw ECU. I'd be happy to never schedule them again.
So much this... Recruits do want to play in big games against big time competition. Not to mention, outside of Miami (who we won't play anymore after this season) and LOLUVA there are literally no ACC games about which to be excited. Whit needs to beef up this schedule for the good of the program or we, the fans, will continue to slide into a malaise.
I'll push back here:
We still play Miami every other season
Going forward, our conference slate will be more entertaining than it has been at any point in the last 5 years.
I agree the non-con needs to be beefed up (I'm a fan of playing the best teams possible, and not trying to get an easy road to the post season, but I digress), but let's not act like the ACC schedule is getting worse.
I definitely agree with this... my post above was, intentionally so, a bit over the top. And you're right that the ACC slate will be better, but I'm not sure that will move the needle with the fan base - i.e. getting them into the stadium. I could be wrong, but until the ACC as a whole gets better there's nothing terribly exciting about most of the matchups.
I think part of my cynicism here is related to the future product that the ACC will be fielding in light of the new TV contracts the SEC & BIG have along with the NIL situation. The ACC will simply slide into irrelevancy with the product slowly eroding. That's one of the main reasons I'd love to see at least one big time game in Lane every season.
ACC has been a subpar product for a while now. I don't think it will get much worse; we'll just have a lot more seasons like last year with Wake and Pitt
Build it and they will come. The pendulum swing shouldn't take long. Just win, baby!!