Finally got cleared today! It has been a long journey of healing but I'm back — ShaiMcKenzie (@VT_McKenzie22) May 6, 2014
This is excellent news. The competition at tailback this August should be something fierce.
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Oh snap
And to think, the knock against UNC and Miami is that their run defenses are miserable.
After the spring scrimmages, my running back rotation would be (in no particular order):
Trey Edmunds
Marshawn Williams
Shai Mckenzie
I'll bite. If this is the rotation you prefer, what roles do you want Caleb and Mangus in? Does this also indicate you aren't enamored with the production of Caleb this spring?
Personally, if Shai comes back and plays like his high school tape, I don't care what Caleb and mangus did this spring, this kid has stud potential. I just don't feel like Caleb has the "it" factor. Trey and marshawn both look good running, even if they don't have a productive run. Caleb had good runs this spring, but I saw lots of times where you could tell he was going no where once he got the handoff.
If Shai plays like he looked on his high school tape, he is the best back on campus. And I say that thinking that Edmunds is excellent, Marshawn can be excellent, and I am very high on Caleb.
I like Caleb, I think he's the fourth best running back on this team though. If the coaching staff wants to redshirt either Marshawn or Shai, I'd redshirt Shai and insert Caleb as the 3rd on the depth chart. I think he's really versatile, if he knows the playbook he could step right into the role that JC has and would bring an explosiveness that the team is lacking. However, he wasn't exactly tearing it up all spring. Trey, Marshawn, and Shai would all have housed the same run that Caleb ran in for a touchdown in the spring game. It was basically the only run where a running back saw any real daylight.
Mangus... I like Mangus, I do. I'm just not sure that he brings enough to the table to drag some of the other athletes off the field. If I'd play Mangus it would be as a wing-back player, someone you'd motion across the formation while in shotgun and run sweeps/options with. He could do well in that role... although from a tactical standpoint I'd rather do that with a wide receiver (like Knowles or PARKER) who is also skilled at going down the field and running a sharp 15 yard route.
Thanks for the response. I haven't seen too much of the spring film and you were there and doing analysis, just a little surprising that you'd have two true freshmen who haven't taken a snap, with Shai coming off the ACL injury, ahead of those two and JC. Is this an embarrassment of riches with the talent or more similar to the QB race where Brewer and the freshmen are coming in and competing right away because the cupboard was bare?
If the coaching staff wants to redshirt either Marshawn or Shai, I'd redshirt Shai and insert Caleb as the 3rd on the depth chart.
That's all I needed to agree with this post. There are so many reasons to shirt.....a few that strike me:
you are not mitigating risk of injury by redshirting him. Full contact vs the 1st team D behind the 3rd team OL every day they go full contact is much greater risk than 20 touches (a HIGH ESTIMATE) a game and going no contact in season. Also, with the ACL injury, you have to worry much more about non-contact than contact. Short of him sitting out everything, there isn't much you can do. Once he is ready, he has to practice full speed until mentally he is ready to play. Once he is ready, if he is the best option he should be out there.
I can't agree with having a true freshman coming off an ACL (yes, even though he's "cleared") supplanting JC, Caleb, or Mangus. No question in my mind Shai redshirts to make darn sure that knee heals up properly, learn the playbook, and hit the weight room. You don't come off an ACL tear with all the strength, explosiveness and agility you had before it, and the other three have shown me enough so that I don't feel the burning need to put in a different body.
Sounds like we agree that Edmunds and Williams should play this year... If Tech has a chance to play in the ACC Championship game and Edmunds or Williams gets hurt, I'd rather bring bring Shai in to be the second running back than JC, Caleb, or Mangus... if Shai is the same player as he is in his high school film. Obviously if he's hampered by injury than I'm not bringing him on the field. Tech has three running backs who have the potential to be All ACC. Edmunds, Williams, McKenzie. Give all three playing time, let them compete, and see who rises to the top. There's room for more than one running back on the field at a time in today's game.
This all depends on what the running back rotation looks like, of course. If it looks like it has the past two seasons (running backs assigned to specific packages rather than having one work horse who gets the majority of the carries and maybe a change-of-pace back to spell him) then I want McKenzie in there creating mismatches. If Loeffler wants to go to a traditional running back model, then there won't be enough touches (carries or receptions) to justify Shai playing.
There's no doubt in my mind that a healthy Shai McKenzie can straight ball.
That IF is just way too big for me to ignore. If he comes in and has, as someone below said it, a David-Wilson-like camp, burn the shirt, put him out there. I'm still not ready to show JC the door and Caleb has held his own in there as well. Even if we made it to the ACCCG, you're basically hoping a guy who's spent 100% of his college career on the scout team can come in and be a stud in his first live action in a Hokie jersey. That's asking a lot. If his knee isn't 100% by August 1st and he's back to good 'ole Shai, redshirt him, get him in the training room and the weight room, and let him be an absolute stud next year. I feel good having Williams and Trey getting the majority of the reps (let's face it, they're still both young players), with at least 2 of the other 3 providing some insurance (I'm not convinced we won't see some attrition this summer).
Even after players medically clear it usually takes them awhile to get fully back. Fans can look at Antone Exum for how even after medically clearing it could take awhile. Adrian Peterson was able to come back in the time frame that Shai is looking for but everyone says that was a miracle and Peterson prob had the best medical treatment money can buy.
Feel like the best thing for Shai, and probably the program, would be for him the redshirt this year and get his bearings unless he's good enough to be the #2 back this year.
The Exum comparison is a good point. He needs time to 1) Knock the rust off 2) Trust his knee again 3) Understand the playbook 4) Get used to the speed of BCS-level football.
Happy for Shai but unless he has a David Wilson-like camp this fall (which is really possible), he's going to redshirt.
I agree. You don't want to take any chances with an ACL. Take the shirt and continue to make sure it is strong and he's ready to run full speed with no mis-givings.
The first year after an ACL injury is always one where the player says he is 100%, but his performance never reflects that. Then, a year later, they always admit that the injury affected their play. So, while Shai is confident now, I wouldn't expect him to be what he desires until the 2015 season. And that will be just fine.
Honestly, I think Shai still gets a redshirt and Caleb gets the 3rd spot.
probably, but Caleb is also the only one of the backs who has the ability to play somewhere else if there is a need position. I don't think he moves, but if someone does move, he will be the first to go.
I say play whoever our best backs are at the end of summer practice. If Shai is the back that can do something special everytime he touches the ball, then he should play, if not start. Same goes for Marshawn, Trey, Joel, etc.
I'm ok with him not redshirting. If he can add something to the team, he should play.
Too many good running backs is a good problem to have. Now the task is to find three great ones.
I'd let him work out for a year and get 100% then that'd make him a red shirt sophomore for 2016.
Imagine what it will be like when a 4.5 40 running 235 DJ Reid joins a healthy Shai and Marshawn. Our Running game has no excuse but to be ridiculous this year.
dat offensive line doe
I don't think Reid is that big. I think he is more in the 210 range. Unless of course he has been hanging with Bucky Hodges...then he might be 400lbs And run a 4.2
I believe this article is free and on Techsideline, but out of respect of that site I'll paste only the link anyway. Info and source can be found toward the middle of the article.
http://virginiatech.sportswar.com/free-content/2014/05/03/recruiting-not...
Fair enough. Thanks for the article. That actually worries me a little. His HS weight was 195lbs. I find it hard to believe he put on 40 lbs of muscle without losing any speed.
I also see they said "hopeful" to enroll in July. Hope he makes it to Blacksburg!
Was that his HS weight or prep school weight? His High School weight would be at least a full year removed from his present weight.
I won't lie, Reid is a guy I've almost completely written off. Not saying he can't be good, but he's got a lot to show me before I'll believe he belongs on the roster. Now, if that size and speed are accurate, he's beginning to show me something.
We won't really know until it shows on Hokiesports.com. But, if it is true, not too many people can carry that kind of weight that fast.
Cool, but he still should probably be redshirted if Trey looks normal when he comes back.
So many people keep saying to redshirt Shai.
Ehh... I dunno, we have made a history of getting burned by redshirting kids to keep them around longer, only to see them leave the minute they're eligible for the draft, especially at RB. I'd say the only way we should redshirt Shai is if he comes in and we see he's either not going to be healthy enough for the season, or if he's not going to have enough bulk to be effective. If he comes in and shows he's a beast right from the start, of which, if he's fully healthy, he is fully capable of being, then you almost have to start him.
I'd hate to throw the redshirt on him and see him go pro after 1 or 2 seasons as being a productive back for us. As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to RBs, we really should only redshirt guys if we're fully convinced we'll be able to utilize their redshirt senior season.
My biggest issue is taking reps away from guys like Williams and Edmunds and giving them to a guy who is still most likely not 100% recovered from his injury, and therefore not getting the most out of them.
Well, it depends.
Is 90% of Shai better than 100% of Trey or 100% of Williams?
Look, I liked the way Edmunds played last year, and I think he could have a pretty good year this year as well, but if Shai and Williams end up playing up to their potential, Trey shouldn't see the field. That's not a knock on Trey so much as its showing just how good the other 2 guys are. These 2 new guys should be our workhorse backs in 2015 and beyond.
That question is still just way too big of an "if." We don't know how close he'll be to 100% and if 80 or 90% Shai actually is better than 100% Trey/Williams. As JCToldMe said below, the last thing we want is to rush him back because we think we "need" him, only to have him bothered by a nagging injury all year because we were too stubborn to let the kid fully heal. It's a long process, and I personally think it'd be in the best interest of both Shai and the team for him to redshirt. Better health for him, more reps for healthy guys.
You seem to be discounting his "if" yet using your "if" as the basis of your argument. You can't say we don't know how close he'll be to 100% and then say it's the best interest for him to redshirt. No one knows how close he is to 100%, so one person's "if" doesn't hold more substance than the other.
Your last bit is pretty much my point: no one knows how close he is to 100%. I'd say he probably doesn't even know. Why rush it? We don't desperately need him this year, and there is zero reason to rush him back based on the hope that he'll be better than the guys we have at whatever health level he's at (and Torrian Gray has said repeatedly, you never put yourself on film at anything less than 100%, so this seems like a moot point to me anyways. If he's not 100%, he doesn't play. That seems like a pretty solid "if" argument to me).
This is a very fair point
I think we are getting a little carried away with excitement and other issues. Just because he is cleared doesn't mean he is ready to go 100%. I am sure he has been in all the meetings has learned the playbook and done everything that Juice JC Caleb and Mangus have done... other than actually go through the motions.
Shai is coming off a bad ACL tear, and those take time to heal and get that comfortable with the cuts, and pressure. Mind you the first time he gets tackled by Dadi or even Chase Williams will be downright frightening. Not because he is scared but the mental thought of will my knee hold up.
I want the best for the program along with every damn one of you on this site but lets not rush the kid into playing time. Lets let him go at his pace and then we can start getting excited about what he can bring to the table. We all saw how a nagging ankle injury hurt JC last year. I would hate to see it happen to a kid like Shai who could have a huge impact in 2015
Agreed. I think he deserves a legit shot at playing his way into the rotation but we should all acknowledge that this is tough to do during August practice and with a recent injury. Still, I expect one of Shai, JC, Mangus, or Caleb to separate himself come August. I can see the merit of any of these guys. However, as long as Trey comes back as the guy we saw the last few games before his injury, and given what Juice brings to the table, and expecting an OL that takes another "step", we will see signs that OFFENSE IS BACK IN BLACKSBURG. It may shock us, leave us speechless, but in the end we will enjoy it immensely. Maybe even a game or two where the Hokie offense is unstoppable. As for Shai, if he isn't in the 2014 rotation, I can see him stepping into a well-oiled machine, maybe even an upper-echelon offense, come 2015.
I think Shai went through spring and looked good except he was in no contact but he did run drills and do none contact stuff and went through the meetings ect. I expect he would be ready and in a lot better shape than most frosh who come in august . I heard he probably could have gone full in spring but they did not want to rush his return. I also would not count him out he could be a real player . I am not big on R/S the RBs . The problem here is that Treys injury is a pretty rough one and he may or may not be 100% in sept and is probably a lot less likely than Shai . Trey was solid last year but far from being a lock to repeat start with the new players the other guys getting some more expeirience like Caleb. You don't want to R/S any of these guys if you think they may have NFL caliber because they will be gone at the first chance. I think the RB spot is pretty interesting and would not count out anyone and injuries here happen and can change the mix in a hurry .