That honestly is suprising. Suspended for a half for shouting obscenities, suspended from practice for shoplifting seafood. So who is going to change their pick for this week's Six Pick?
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I can't fathom why a person who has gotten into trouble over alleged sexual assault thought this would be a fun thing to yell in public. He needs to get a clue.
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I have to say, considering his past troubles with the sexual assault allegations, that this is one of the dumbest things I have seen. He deserves more than 1 half for being so stupid. Especially with all the NFL troubles going on, and the extreme sensitivity towards women right now, this is REALLY stupid.
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If this sort of stuff continues, I hope that some day in the future, his agent breaks down for him exactly how much money he cost himself in the draft due to it.
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that whole deal always bothered me. We didn't kick him off the team til after the bowl game. It made us look just as lame as every other school that gives superstars a pass until they won't help us anymore.
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To be fair, he was suspended for the full season following his conviction for "contributing to the delinquency of a minor", which is a pretty fair punishment considering the conviction. He kept his nose relatively clean during his year off and the next season, having a couple minor incidents, but the final straw was stomping Dumervil's leg in the bowl game.
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Would any be surprised at this point if we have a 30 for 30 titled "One of the Dumbest Things I Have Ever Seen: The Jameis Winston Story" in the next decade?
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What he said/did was STUPID and he deserves his suspension. However, does anyone find it interesting/funny/pathetic that this is what he got suspended for with all of the dumb stuff he has done.
- Alleged rape - ok...the cops swept it under the rug and he wasn't found guilty.
- Stealing - he did it. Should have been suspended
- Wasn't there some story about him riding a bike with a pellet gun on campus or just off campus?
- The most recent issue.
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Hey, gotta punish him now while you can. Don't want the media lynch mob coming after you right now. Lord knows, they're already frothing at the mouth with anything associated with the NFL right now.
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Maybe if the NFL had handled any of these situations with any reasonable consideration it wouldn't be such a shit show, but they kinda blew that opportunity not once (Rice)... not twice (Hardy)... not three (McDonald)... but four (Peterson) times already.
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I don't buy that at all. There's something called due process. The NFL (nor any organization) is not and should not be judge jury and executioner in this process. In fact, they should steer clear of it and let everything play out through the courts, and then if and when the player is convicted and sentenced, then do what you will.
I don't like how the league is devolving right now. The media is out for blood and they want heads to roll, and the NFL, instead of standing up and doing whats right and letting it play out in the courts, is taking the cowards way out and caving to the pressure of the frothy mouthed hoard.
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Media is out for blood, but these guys are making millions representing their organization. An organization with sponsors and fans. They are fully entitled to stop a guy from playing. It must be hard for the Vikings to bench their best player, but it is the right thing to do.
The guy beat his kid until the skin was broken and the wounds were still bleeding a week later. Peterson has admitted that he did do it and that he made a mistake.
These guys think that the world revolves around them and it is nice to see them be brought back down to earth.
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These guys think that the world revolves around them and it is nice to see them be brought back down to earth.
That quote encompasses everything that is wrong with this situation right now.
We are not those who should be judging this situation, it should be the courts. Not the court of public opinion, the court of law. Let the courts have their way with them. But until that time where a ruling has been passed, these guys are getting severely punished for accusations.
Its frighteningly disturbing right now how quickly a life could be completely ruined right now because of an accusation. Lets say the courts come back and find Peterson or Hardy, or that guy in San Fran innocent. What then? They were suspended, financially gutted, and publicly shamed for an accusation. This is the Salem Witch Trials all over again.
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Hardy has already been found guilty for one, and Peterson has admitted it. There is video evidence of Rice's actions.
What type of witch hunt is taking place here exactly? You are really missing the key piece of the puzzle here, in that the court of public opinion is all that matters here. The NFL sells a product to the public. If they determine that actions of these players are hurting that product's sales, they can take steps to rectify that.
Adrian Peterson's life isn't being ruined by the Vikings deactivating him.
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the courts come back and find Peterson or Hardy, or that guy in San Fran innocent. What then?
not to nit pick, but the courts don't determine innocence.. only guilty or not guilty
and even if some of these kids don't do any illegal, we can still form an opinion on them absent police or court intervention - although, as you said, it is way out of control these days
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The video of Ray Rice knocking his woman out is not an accusation.
Peterson admitting to beating his kid is not an accusation.
Again, these guys are the faces of organizations worth billions. They get paid millions. The teams can elect to have them not participate in team activities. They haven't been thrown in prison without a trial.
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The courts completely dropped the ball with Ray Rice too. To have seen that video and said "I think you need to take these classes," completely baffles me. I think all of these guys should get a second chance after doing their time and going through the court process a la Vick, but at least in the Ray Rice instance, the court system did not hand down an appropriate punishment.
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She shouldn't have to in that situation. I understand what you're saying, but c'mon, if you're arrested after dragging an unconscious woman from an elevator and video is seen of you completely decking her, it shouldn't be down to her pressing charges.
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True, but it varies state to state....NJ may need to revisit their laws.
In South Carolina, the officer can press charges at the time of complaint, even if the victim decides not to. This takes the pressure off the victim who is likely afraid and traumatized in the situation.
Point being, the state may be hog-tied in their response during to the existing laws. Stupid, yes.
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No way Anheuser Busch was ever pulling money. They saw a chance to jump in on the free publicity train and look good doing it. I'm not saying they condone domestic violence, but you know they've contributed to a great deal of it.
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Alum, I could not disagree with you more. Due process applies to our legal system. It has zero bearing on the actions (or reactions) of the NFL or any other sports league. They don't have to wait for someone to be found guilty in court to take those steps. And in the case of Ray Rice or Peterson, there really is nothing to wait on, they have both admitted it. The NFL is allowed to be judge jury and executioner when it comes to policies regarding their employees. They arn't sending these guys to jail, they are telling them that their CRIMINAL actions will not be tolerated if it means losing billion $$$ sponsors.
I love that now its a "frothy mouthed hoard" just because people are sick and tired of professional athletes believing, behaving (and for the most part being treated) as if they can do no wrong.
Adrian Peterson beat a 4 year old till the kid bled. I will at least give him credit for manning up to that action, but the admission has been made right from the horses mouth that he did those actions. Screw due process, sit his ass out (and he is still getting paid anyway).
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Screw due process, sit his ass out (and he is still getting paid anyway).
That's a SCARY mindset. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has been accused of a crime. I would certainly hope you would want your due process before having your career and life potentially permanently altered.
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You seem to be ignoring that the confirmation of this occurrence has come from the person that is being accused directly.
I am certainly not in favor of someone having their life ruined over an allegation with no proof.
That is not the case here. We know Peterson did this because he said he did it. There is no witch hunt. Ray Rice admitted the altercation and there is video evidence of what happened. You seem to be arguing a different point to reality at this time.
Whether a court decides that it is child abuse or not is irrelevant at this point. A lot of people find hitting a young child with a stick reprehensible. What a court decides from a legal standpoint is meaningless in that regard.
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If I called my job and told them I wouldn't be in because I was indicted for beating my child, I would not be the least bit surprised to lose that job.
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I would hope the job put you on administrative unpaid leave or something prior to firing you for something that is an allegation until the jury of peers says otherwise.
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I think what AZHokie is getting at is that in these situations (Rice and AP) is that it's beyond accusations. We have clear video of Rice knocking out Janay Palmer. We have Adrian Peterson admitting his guilt and photographic evidence of the damage done. When someone admits to being a child abuser or I see a video of a man beating his gf/fiancee/wife I don't need the legal system or due process to tell me he's an ass and deserves to be punished.
Apart from that, I'm sure the NFL and its teams have morality clauses in their contracts. Charged, found guilty, I'm not sure what's required to break the clause, but it wouldn't surprise me if having clear evidence of guilt would be enough to allow the league to act as judge, jury, and executioner.
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would be enough to allow the league to act as judge, jury, and executioner.
It bothers me that the masses do not see an issue with this.
We're walking down a very slippery slope when you take the power of punitive punishment out of the courts hands, which is essentially what is being done right here. To subvert the judicial system like that is truly frightening.
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We're not subverting anything. People aren't throwing them in jail or removing their voting privledges - we are just pressuring their employers (who produce entertainment) to remove them from the product, because otherwise their sales will suffer. OJ Simpson was found innocent in the court of law, but everyone knows he's guilty. We don't have to pretend he's innocent. That is not subverting the justice system, and neither is this.
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This has been the case forever. Most employers have a morality clause in their contracts. Hence why people get terminated when they cheat on their spouse, especially if they are a face of the company. They're also no subverting the judicial system, the case is still going to court. At this point it's not public opinion swaying the decision due to lack of evidence, but a response by an employer to an activity they said they did.
Go to your boss and tell them you sell drugs on the side and make sure they know it's not a joke. You'd probably be fired before you'd go to court and get declared guilty or not guilty.
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The NFL isn't putting him in chains, they're deciding who they allow to play in their league. As far as I'm concerned they're allowed to do that since they're a private institution with a large part of their success being at the hands of the public opinion. It doesn't matter if he's found not guilty in court, I (along with many) believe what he did was wrong and support the NFL in exercising their right to determine who is and is not allowed to play in this scenario.
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We have AP admitting to doing something that the overwhleming majority of people agree is child abuse. While he may not have specifically said "I abused this kid," he did say "I hit him repeatedly and injured him," which is basically the same thing.
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Okay, I haven't seen any of the interviews. Paddling is far different than switching and I think most Americans are far more comfortable with that form of discipline.
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He switched his child, leaving a number of large red welts that were still visible weeks later when the child was taken to the doctor. Regardless of your stance on the use of corporal punishment, he took it way too far and has admitted as much. What he hasn't admitted to is "child abuse", which is fair. Abuse would be if he did it out of anger or malice or a sick sense of enjoyment, as opposed to just disciplining his child the best way he knows how. I agree with his suspension, but I wouldn't support him being cut from the team and/or banned from the league, removing his livelihood. If the courts deem him guilty of child abuse, then get rid of him, let him do his time, and possibly give him a second chance. If the courts deem him not guilty, he still obviously needs some form of counseling.
I think we can all agree that the silver lining of this whole situation is bringing awareness to the issue, giving people that discipline their children similarly some real reasons to re-evaluate their parenting strategies.
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The second one was already thrown out (after the mother tried to essentially sell the case to 2 states) because they didn't have nearly enough evidence to proceed to trial, and they didn't find the claims that credible. But hey, the accusation was made, so now ADP is a habitual child beater, right?
Yeah, there's no witch hunt going on right now.
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Corporal punishment is still legal and administered in 19 US states, including Texas, where this happened. Are we at a point where we're going to call people criminals while they weren't breaking the law, as is stated on the books?
This is why we have a judicial system. To make an interpret the laws. Its absolutely foolish, and a disservice and insult to those who have that authority to say your opinion on the matter means more than theirs. Leave this to the courts, if they find him guilty, have at it. Until then, who the heck are we to judge.
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I'd say if the vast majority of Americans feel that he crossed the line (which is clearly the consensus), then he did. We are his peers in society - if we aren't the ones to judge and decide what we should and should not tolerate, then who is?
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Except the court of public opinion doesn't have that much power in the court of law. Over the past few years there have been quite a few high profile cases where if the judge and jury listened to the public people would be given the chair, yet they were acquitted.
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I've not heard anyone call him a criminal, but he is admitted to beating a child, legal or illegal seems to be missing the point that it is wrong. The NFL has every right to use the personal conduct policy to step in and take action to protect itself from losing sponsors... And the media has every right to report that AP admitted to beating his child, and then even tried to justify it. It's sickening that a grown man could beat a 4 year old child from head to toe and then blame it on the child for not standing still as the reason... So, while the good people of TX may think this is perfectly fine behavior, I disagree, and I don't need to wait around and see what the courts decide to make my mind up
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There is a big difference between physically disciplining a child and abuse. AP stepped across that line. I think the people of Texas will be able to tell the difference as well.
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For the player apologists, pretty much anything is acceptable as long as the guy's on the field for the next game. That's the unfortunate part of it - the seeming desire to ignore bigger issues just so a guy can play in a game.
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I will admit to not looking into this accusation much because yes, I have seen pictures of the other accusation and seen that AP admitted to doing the beating and in my mind he has no reason to be around children and I am inclined to believe that he may have beat another child. What I did see, however, were reports that said he texted the mother that the child was hurt "from the car seat" and said "if he would have took his whooping it wouldn't have happened." If I read a bad article, it's on me, but regardless, I'm not going to use him as a babysitter while he's not playing. I already stated that I don't think the legal system has shown it can always be counted on in these situations after the Ray Rice case.
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I'd be interested to know what the circumstances were that led up to this. Did it just pop in his head? Was it a dare? It's clear the guy has a tough time thinking through his actions, which can definitely be a result of age and environment, but you'd hope the kid would learn. Even if he won them an NC, I'm going to guess that Wee Man (Jimbo) and FSU are going to be happy to part ways with him at the end of the school year.
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I love all the nolies defending him for just being a "dumb college kid". I had lots of fun when I was polyteching but I never shot out windows with bb guns, stole soda or crab legs or was involved in multiple sexual assault cases that just went away under mysterious circumstances. I may or may not have shouted some really dumb and inapproppriate things outloud after a few adult beverages. This "kid" really needs a full time babysitter, can you imagine how bad he will get when he has millions of nfl $ to blow? I can jsut see him and manziel competing over who can get away with the most criminole behaviour...
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I just want to put this out there....Heisman winner, sexual assaults, crab leg stealing, obsenity yelling.....Jamies Winston is a flipping TURD!!!!!!!!!!!!
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he's just being a dumb dumb.. yeah i had fun in college but at a certain point you say ok ill behave now. It is obvious he has 0 common sense and i'm surprised people even were able to understand him.
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AT some point, hopefully now, he needs to be sat down and told that he represents the school and the football team. That because of who he is everything that he does that may be negative will be put out there. People may say "oh he's just a young college kid being dumb." I got it, but that college kid is a heisman trophy winner on the #1 ranked team in college football. He's not some kid in a dorm room that nobody knows. The radio shows...at least on college sports on sirius XM are tearing him up for this.
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Call it a punishment, but this column by Dan Wolken seems, to me, like it's on the money. He'll never learn any accountability until if affects his team on the field. Three baseball games doesn't affect your season the way that one loss can affect a football season, which is what he was suspended for in the spring. Clearly he needs to learn something about discretion (among others), but this suspension doesn't seem like it's going to teach him anything if FSU can still win the game. Of course, this all hinges on FSU winning due to his contributions (not too farfetched).
While Jameis' actions were stupid, they really don't warrant any suspension. Cursing in public? Really?
This suspension is the university reacting to the twitterverse lynch mob mentality that seems to have reached a boiling point over the last two months with the sport of football.
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It's not like this is his first time getting into trouble for doing something stupid. He's been doing it since he got on campus and it's been swept under the rug. No one who is innocent runs into the law as much as he has. Granted we can't know for sure exactly what he's in the wrong for but he isn't close to an angel. He's been doing this and stuff that's 10x worse constantly and getting let off the hook. Given his biggest scandal this is even worse.
He needs to be shown he's not invincible or else FSU could ruin the rest of his life. This "punishment" isn't about the cursing, it's about everything they let slide for years.
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Leonard...have to disagree with you.
If I am not mistaken, this is a public university. He was in the student center and yelled obscenties that certainly would make most females feel very uncomfortable. You can't just stand up in public and yell this stuff in our society, especially when you have his track record.
Think about it...if you had a daughter at FSU and she happened to be standing there when he did that? Would you want her to be subjected to his antics?
Considering his past allegations of sexual misconduct, his words could also be seen as threatening to women.
FSU had this to say:
"As the university's most visible ambassadors, student-athletes at Florida State are expected to uphold at all times high standards of integrity and behavior that reflect well upon themselves, their families, coaches, teammates, the department of athletics and Florida State University," the joint statement said. "Student-athletes are expected to act in a way that reflects dignity and respect for others."
Don't forget his quote from the crab theft incident...
"I realize that I am in the public spotlight and my conduct needs to be above reproach. ... I must realize that my mistakes are magnified and can bring great embarrassment to all those who support me every day."
The guy is a phony....and deserves to be suspended for the entire game.
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I can see both sides here. If this were another player with no history of boneheadedness, I wouldn't be surprised to see no suspension and probably not even see it in the news. It's in poor taste no doubt, but I don't think yelling obscenities in public necessarily warrants a suspension. I think we're seeing FSU admitting that they have to step up and send a message to this idiot because they've failed to discipline his past more serious indiscretions. If they keep letting it slide with absolutely no repercussions, his behavior will never improve (not that I think it will anyway, but I digress). They're doing too little too late to try to curb the second coming of Marcus Vick.
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Was it actually a "University" decision? I kinda' doubt that. My understanding was that Fisher levied the suspension (under pressure no doubt), which I think is more appropriate. If this kind of decision has to escape the Athletic Department to be made, FSU has bigger problems than Jameis Winston.
On a side note, I made the mistake of visiting Tomahawk Nation for some context and... ugh... the mental gymnastics that go on over there are beyond sad. There are a few reasonable folks, but they seem to be in the minority.
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I respect all your opinions, and I understand where all of you are coming from. (Even you, downvoter) I'm just a little fed up with knee-jerk, reactionary discipline lately that is based on internet mob rule.
If Jameis Winston is guilty of sexual misconduct, crab leg heist, or destruction of property, then by all means nail him to the wall for that. But this kind of behavior usually warrants a sit down with the coach, and extra up-downs at 5:00 am.
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Fundamentally I agree with you. I for one am not under the impression that this is a result of media/social media outcry so much as an admission by FSU that they have failed to properly address his past issues and that if they don't start now his behavior is going to continue to get worse.
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Its not acceptable for anyone to stand on a table and yell "Fuck her right in the pussy". I mean is the dude just plain stupid? Especially after the allegations of rape he yells something like that? I would suspend that boy for a whole game because that's the only way he'll learn. If FSU lost that game all his teammates would look down on him for putting himself over the team.
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I agree. What I've heard over a lot of the sports radio shows is that they would have suspended him for the entire game. Now they are setting him up to be the hero. If FSU is down at half time or the game is close and then he comes in and FSU rolls the second half to a comfortable win, what message does that send to Winston?? Basically saying that he can do whatever he wants.
I don't understand the people who are saying that "cursing" in public isn't a big deal. Well depends on what is said. If he stood up on the table and just yelled shit or something I'm sure not much would have been done. However with what he's been through plus the fact that he had the potential to have some girl take serious offense to it and claim harrassment. I'm sure that's something the team and the school does not want to deal with.
I wonder if he'll declare after this season. I dont' know if his career will last another year in college....but with FSU who knows.
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Maybe I come from another time, or perhaps I'm just old-fashioned. One of the early lessons that my parents impressed upon me, and one that I (hopefully) have ingrained on my kinds, is that there is no room for foul language in public (or anywhere, really). One thing that I remember my Dad telling me was "You're a pretty smart kid. You're smart enough to find other ways to express yourself without having to use bad language." Now, you can make what you will about the first half of that statement in regard to Famous. One thing I know for sure. Jameis has no idea how happy he is that he is not my child. For that matter, Jimbo has no idea how happy he is, either.
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yeah if i was jameis winston by dad would be looking at some adrian peterson type charges because i would for sure be out in the yard picking some switches to bring back to him to whip me with.
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so Jameis supposedly rapes a girl, steals crab legs yells obscenities and gets a slap on the wrist, safe to say no matter what he does, he will get away with it and continue to get slaps on the wrist
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IMO the way FSU/Jimbo are handling this immature kid is completely wrong. How many times is this going to happen before he gets punished and a good punishment. Not missing a game against an FCS team, how about missing a game and suspended for a week from all football activities. There comes a time and point to get behind the kid and try to help him but when you don't punish him properly the first time he/she becomes invincible.
The argument/excuse that he is only a sophomore is absolute BS in my book. Ohhh so the alleged rape case wasn't enough for this kid to figure out ohh maybe I should stay low. Nope or maybe stealing crab legs from Publix could have been his 4th warning with FSU.. Now we have a 5th issue and its an absolute travesty that FSU administration is not getting involved and dealing with him other than a 1/2 game suspension.
I understand that a good/heisman player will be put into the spotlight ala Johnny Manziel but at least he was just drinking a lot.. Not allegedly raping girls and making fun/poking a joke about it.
No NFL team should draft him and deal with his crap. He will end up like another Ray Rice
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In typical FSU fashion, it didn't take long for FSU fans to realize the true evil in this scenario, and start threatening those who Reported on what Jameis was doing
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that's what even more amusing.. The fact that people are threatening other student/ so called snitches for something as dumb as this. The kid deserves to be punished and sooner or later we will really find out what happened. Idk how you can back a kid that may or may not have raped someone then act as if its a joke with the comments/saying he yelled out. Regardless what happened he should have learned from Johnny Football and stayed quiet however you can't hide stupid
I would have slapped him so hard in his face damn.. What a disgusting/disgraceful athlete we all know he isn't much of a student.
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I wouldn't have slapped him, only because he's a giant compared to me and would have pounded me into the ground.
I also do not know what kind of student he is.
But about that snitches statement...I recall when Dorial Green Beckham was...cited?...arrested?...for dragging some girl around by her hair and some guys approached her to ask her not to do anything about it because 'he didn't need to get in trouble'.
False. He did need to get in trouble. I think Winston needs to get in trouble, too. Can't learn if there are no punishments.
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I agree with you, but that is not quite how I remember the DGB incident. He forced his way into his girlfriend's apartment and shoved one of her roommates down some stairs. Then he left with his girlfriend, with is arm allegedly around her neck.
It was actually the girlfriend who was trying to keep him out of trouble. Some of her text messages were released in which she is pleading with her roommate not to press charges because "football is all he has" and "he wouldn't make it in a real job." The roommate ultimately decided not to press charges citing that she feared the potential backlash from the community.
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I think Jimbo Fisher's system is very good at making "eh" qbs into superstars. I mean, look at Jamarcus Russel, EJ Manuel and Christian Ponder. All Fisher 1st rounders that flamed out (or are in the process of flaming out) quickly.
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I cant believe Florida State, this is such a joke. This kid should have had some serious penalties brought down upon him by now. If he was at our program Beamer would have suspended him a whole season just over the rape case. Looking at his rap sheet its pretty silly that this is the thing that finally got him suspended though. He has actually been arrested before and this incident didn't actually bring any legal action on him.
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i wouldn't say suspended the whole season but definitely taken a leave of absence. until things get figured out Look at how Beamer handled the Journell case and the RB i think his name was Michael something .... Both were placed on leave of absence from all team activities. However FSU couldn't due that because of the implications it would have had on their Title game.. The NCAA is a joke so they're not going to do anything so now its up to the school and the school decided hmm millions of dollars over a classy university.
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Beamer didn't even have to handle some of that stuff. Isn't it university policy that if you're charged (or is it exclusive to being convicted?) with a felony, you're suspended from all university activity?
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True, it is not Frank's decision. The guideline was created so that the onus would not be on the head coach (of whatever sport involved), but that it was a university policy. That is preferable to the whims of any coach, now and in the future. It also provides the coach the ability to enforce other actions in advance of the university sanction.
For example - if a player is captured on video committing some criminal action, the head coach can immediately suspend the player without waiting on charges. Once charges are determined, then the university policy is in effect. Thus the head coach could suspend a Jameis Winston action regardless of whether there are felony charges involved. But the coach couldn't sweep the charges under the rug until the offseason if there were indeed charges, either.
It's a good fundamentally sound policy. It forces a certain action early so that no sense of stalling can be formed. It also allows the coaches to implement sanctions in case certain actions are egregious, but don't actually result in criminal charges.
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You're thinking of Michael Holmes. Virginia Tech's policy is to automatically suspend any player charged with a felony. Players can be reinstated later if the circumstances warrant it (see Dahman McKinnon).
I'm glad Frank doesn't have an issue like this to deal with, but I would be interested to see how he'd handle it since Winston hasn't been charged with any felonies.
I am appalled with much of what I've heard about what goes on in FSU athletic circles, and I think Winston is a colossal idiot, but I absolutely cannot justify a suspension based on an accusation. Colleges are already implementing sexual assault policies that allow for punishment based on a preponderance of evidence, and innocent people are paying a price for it. You have to let due process do it's thing.
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Nobody gives a crap about due process anymore. They want to see guys knocked down a rung or 2. They want immediate gratification, and they want anyone who's even accused of something to pay. They want to see others suffer to make themselves feel better.
Heck, there's a whole set of replies in this thread that demonstrates this mindset.
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Not necessarily. I've been back & forth with you in this thread and I hope you got to see Goodell speak just now because I'm interested to see your take (largely because we have differing opinions and you've been the only person willing to stand up for and debate your views and differing opinions and I absolutely respect that you're voicing your view with more than upvotes). Myself and several others have heavily criticized Rice and AP, and in my case this is because I saw Rice on video punching a female and I have seen pictures of a child with numerous wounds that AP admitted to inflicting. There's no due process for me in these instances. They're both guilty in my mind (and much of the public opinion from the looks of things). Greg Hardy was convicted and is appealing, I could see an argument for either side there and I haven't taken him on at all. McDonald hasn't been charged with anything has he? And he's playing, I'm not objecting to that. Let due process play out in those cases. You're right in that if everyone is suspended for accusations we'll see people blackmailing players trying to make an easy buck just taking a payment to be quiet, that can't happen. But like I said, we saw what we saw with Rice & AP. There's no denying what Rice did and AP confirmed what he did. Winston is one of those cases where there's smoke there's fire. He may not have been charged or convicted, but problems clearly follow him and FSU needs to get control.
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Good grief, Alum. Please calm down about the due process thing. He didn't do anything illegal, nor is he being punished as such.
He is a representative of the school, who represented the school poorly. The school has every right to punish him by removing some of the privileges (playing FSU football) granted to him for a very short time. He's not going to jail, he's not being fined, it's not going on his criminal record. The reason why no one "gives a crap about due process" in this case is because it has nothing to do with this situation.
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The other 2 cases I saw discussed, 1 has video, and the other has a person admitting to beating a child (actually more than one child, on more than one occasion) so I'm not really sure why we have to withhold our personal opinions until they go through the legal process
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The other cases have nothing to do with this one and the phrase "wasn't talking about just this case" also means you include this case in your being upset about "due process" not being followed.
My point stands as previously stated.
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I'm talking about the mob mentality of society right now. Nobody gives a rats ass anymore about due process. Be it with the NFL, with cases like the Zimmerman trial in Florida, with what happened in Ferguson, what happened with the Duke Lacrosse case, or the OJ Simpson trial, or any other countless amount of media firestorms we've had. Something goes wrong, and someone has to immediately pay. Society wants instant gratification without giving a damn about giving those involved. I'm sick of the whole mantra nowadays of wanting to jump the gun and punish someone for an accusation. Time and time again, you see someone publicly lynched through the media only to see that when all the facts are presented, they're actually innocent.
Let this crap play out in the court of law. I'm sick and tired of the media acting as judge, jury, and executioner with every new case. People have legitimately had their lives ruined because of the media firestorm.
I have a severe distrust for the media ever since I saw firsthand the shit they pulled on campus after April 16th. Seeing that scum dressed as students trying to sneak their way into classrooms to get some kind of scoop necessitating the administration to activate keycard locks on buildings and posting notices for the media to stay away. And don't get me started on the swarm of media cockroaches converging on the line to the convocation just trying to get their 5 minutes of national airtime. And not to mention the local news agencies here in NC who started calling the house asking for an interview while we were back home for that 2 week break. That whole experience absolutely sickened me to the whole lot of them.
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Colleges are already implementing sexual assault policies that allow for punishment based on a preponderance of evidence, and innocent people are paying a price for it. You have to let due process do it's thing.
Isn't this already true. All court cases, except criminal, only require a "preponderance of evidence." So, I would imagine all colleges already do that, especially considering they don't usually have a very sophisticated system to gather evidence. I just looked at VT's conduct code, and it definitely didn't mention "beyond a reasonable doubt." So, it's hard to determine how strict they are, but I'm guessing "preponderance of evidence" is the default, since it's the easiest to ascribe.
You got to remember, being kicked out of school isn't losing a right, it's losing a privilege. In criminal cases, the state is trying to remove the defendant's rights of freedom and liberty, thus the burden is on the state to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that the evidence is worthy to remove civil rights.
This also true with work places, the NFL, etc. Because firing someone is removing a privilege, due process isn't necessary. There is no legal basis or statute that guarantees due process for losing a privilege. In fact, unless you have a specific contract, your boss can fire you for anything, except for discrimination of race, gender, sexuality, etc.
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You are correct. I guess it just worries me that schools can dole out punishment for criminal cases with a lesser standard of evidence than what a court would use. And yes, the schools aren't removing rights of freedom and liberty, but the ramifications of being kicked out of school, especially for something like sexual assault or rape, are still extremely damaging.
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It's not that bad of a system. Essentially, with a "preponderance of evidence," the question is "Did the evidence show you committed the misconduct?" If the committee feels like the defendant did, based on the evidence, then convict.
If you didn't commit the misconduct, you should have a pretty good defense. I guess the slippery slope arises when you believe you didn't commit the misconduct, but schools have a very broad policy on when a misconduct is committed. Like in this example:
"We both drank a lot of liquor, got really drunk and we had sex. I didn't realize she was more drunk than me, but she consented at the time." The next day, she realizes she made a mistake and thinks she was too drunk to make a rational decision.
Is this rape? Maybe some schools say yes. And yea, I could see why many people would have a problem with that.
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Right. My point is primarily focused on sexual assault and rape cases. False accusations or scenarios like what you described are unfortunately a very serious problem, especially on college campuses. I won't expound about that any more here, but if you're interested in some literature on it, this and this are interesting reads.
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Now this brings up a very interesting point. Alum has said several times something along the lines of ruining players lives and I haven't had much sympathy because if Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson have half a brain they've set money aside and can lead a fruitfull life without the NFL or for a year or two until/if they're reinstated. A stricter NCAA/VT policy could really cripple a kid's future after an unfounded accusation.
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Well, I think I mostly agree with you about Rice/Peterson. I'm not sure I would've permanently ended either's career (which is what they've effectively and done for Rice), but there's obviously no uncertainty about what they (Rice/Peterson) did in those cases. But I don't agree that one's immunity to punishment, whether it's legal or by a school/employer, should be contingent on their financial status. An NFL player should be protected from unfounded accusations just as much as a collegiate player. And again, I agree that in the Rice/Peterson cases, the accusations are not unfounded.
I think Alum's point is that even though in the Rice/Peterson cases the outrage is justified, it's very easy to imagine a scenario where someone's life could be ruined by the court of public opinion, even if they do retain all of their constitutional rights, and I think you can kind of see that with people calling for Winston's head for the rape allegations, even though he wasn't convicted. It just seems like a very slippery slope.
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With him now out the entire game, if FSU loses this one, the students who reported this happening on campus are going to be driven out of town on a pike. The fans were already turning on them and threatening them before... it'll only get worse if and when they lose.
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Comments
They suspended him for the first half.
Wow, I'm in shock. The incident doesn't seem horrible to me until you consider his history, but this kid seems to be taking notes from Marcus Vick.
That honestly is suprising. Suspended for a half for shouting obscenities, suspended from practice for shoplifting seafood. So who is going to change their pick for this week's Six Pick?
I was thinking about it. But, it's already in the books. This will test FSU and show whether they are a true national title contender.
Probably more the suspension from the campus security review that is finally looking into the rape charge.
So basically Jimbo thinks they only need him for half the game to beat Clemson
he only played half a game against Auburn last year, right?
#FSUTwitter in full force
Remember nobody has accused Jameis Winston of being intelligent
I think we all know you "can't deny your", oh nevermind!
I can't fathom why a person who has gotten into trouble over alleged sexual assault thought this would be a fun thing to yell in public. He needs to get a clue.
If a clue doesn't taste great in melted butter, I'm pretty sure he won't be actively pursuing one.
something something joke about nonconsenting women
we really need to be able to give more than 1 leg. 1 measly leg for that gem just doesn't do anyone any kind of justice. well done.
Has he gone before the student judiciary board yet? If not this could hurt him big time since he was yelling sexist comments.
Oh Jameis..
I have to say, considering his past troubles with the sexual assault allegations, that this is one of the dumbest things I have seen. He deserves more than 1 half for being so stupid. Especially with all the NFL troubles going on, and the extreme sensitivity towards women right now, this is REALLY stupid.
If this sort of stuff continues, I hope that some day in the future, his agent breaks down for him exactly how much money he cost himself in the draft due to it.
To be fair, Marcus has a history of dumber things... but when your mistakes are being compared to Marcus Vick's, you're doing something very wrong.
Hey, give him time. He's only a sophomore.
Marcus first screwed up as a sophomore, right?
Yeah, the chain of events that led to his first suspension started during his academic sophomore season (the spring semester after his r-Fr season).
and Marcus was also kicked off the team
that whole deal always bothered me. We didn't kick him off the team til after the bowl game. It made us look just as lame as every other school that gives superstars a pass until they won't help us anymore.
To be fair, he was suspended for the full season following his conviction for "contributing to the delinquency of a minor", which is a pretty fair punishment considering the conviction. He kept his nose relatively clean during his year off and the next season, having a couple minor incidents, but the final straw was stomping Dumervil's leg in the bowl game.
Would any be surprised at this point if we have a 30 for 30 titled "One of the Dumbest Things I Have Ever Seen: The Jameis Winston Story" in the next decade?
I would think that a better title would be "Not Scrong Enough"
Side note, since you brought up 30 for 30:
The U Part II will be aired Dec 13
Certainly not in Tallahassee
Well, I guess we get to see how good FSU's backup QB is.
Sometimes I wish we could go back to pre-Twitter, iPhone camera, etc. days. There's lots of stuff that I really, really don't need to know.
...but I thought you enjoyed seeing my lunch and knowing when I pooped last.
What he said/did was STUPID and he deserves his suspension. However, does anyone find it interesting/funny/pathetic that this is what he got suspended for with all of the dumb stuff he has done.
- Alleged rape - ok...the cops swept it under the rug and he wasn't found guilty.
- Stealing - he did it. Should have been suspended
- Wasn't there some story about him riding a bike with a pellet gun on campus or just off campus?
- The most recent issue.
He was suspended from baseball for the crab legs.
oh...maybe the football program should have done something too.
The athletic dept should have made a statement for all of the sports he plays.
Hey, gotta punish him now while you can. Don't want the media lynch mob coming after you right now. Lord knows, they're already frothing at the mouth with anything associated with the NFL right now.
Maybe if the NFL had handled any of these situations with any reasonable consideration it wouldn't be such a shit show, but they kinda blew that opportunity not once (Rice)... not twice (Hardy)... not three (McDonald)... but four (Peterson) times already.
I don't buy that at all. There's something called due process. The NFL (nor any organization) is not and should not be judge jury and executioner in this process. In fact, they should steer clear of it and let everything play out through the courts, and then if and when the player is convicted and sentenced, then do what you will.
I don't like how the league is devolving right now. The media is out for blood and they want heads to roll, and the NFL, instead of standing up and doing whats right and letting it play out in the courts, is taking the cowards way out and caving to the pressure of the frothy mouthed hoard.
Media is out for blood, but these guys are making millions representing their organization. An organization with sponsors and fans. They are fully entitled to stop a guy from playing. It must be hard for the Vikings to bench their best player, but it is the right thing to do.
The guy beat his kid until the skin was broken and the wounds were still bleeding a week later. Peterson has admitted that he did do it and that he made a mistake.
These guys think that the world revolves around them and it is nice to see them be brought back down to earth.
That quote encompasses everything that is wrong with this situation right now.
We are not those who should be judging this situation, it should be the courts. Not the court of public opinion, the court of law. Let the courts have their way with them. But until that time where a ruling has been passed, these guys are getting severely punished for accusations.
Its frighteningly disturbing right now how quickly a life could be completely ruined right now because of an accusation. Lets say the courts come back and find Peterson or Hardy, or that guy in San Fran innocent. What then? They were suspended, financially gutted, and publicly shamed for an accusation. This is the Salem Witch Trials all over again.
Hardy has already been found guilty for one, and Peterson has admitted it. There is video evidence of Rice's actions.
What type of witch hunt is taking place here exactly? You are really missing the key piece of the puzzle here, in that the court of public opinion is all that matters here. The NFL sells a product to the public. If they determine that actions of these players are hurting that product's sales, they can take steps to rectify that.
Adrian Peterson's life isn't being ruined by the Vikings deactivating him.
not to nit pick, but the courts don't determine innocence.. only guilty or not guilty
and even if some of these kids don't do any illegal, we can still form an opinion on them absent police or court intervention - although, as you said, it is way out of control these days
The video of Ray Rice knocking his woman out is not an accusation.
Peterson admitting to beating his kid is not an accusation.
Again, these guys are the faces of organizations worth billions. They get paid millions. The teams can elect to have them not participate in team activities. They haven't been thrown in prison without a trial.
The courts completely dropped the ball with Ray Rice too. To have seen that video and said "I think you need to take these classes," completely baffles me. I think all of these guys should get a second chance after doing their time and going through the court process a la Vick, but at least in the Ray Rice instance, the court system did not hand down an appropriate punishment.
I don't think his wife pressed charges so it's a little hard for that to happen.
She shouldn't have to in that situation. I understand what you're saying, but c'mon, if you're arrested after dragging an unconscious woman from an elevator and video is seen of you completely decking her, it shouldn't be down to her pressing charges.
I hear ya.
True, but it varies state to state....NJ may need to revisit their laws.
In South Carolina, the officer can press charges at the time of complaint, even if the victim decides not to. This takes the pressure off the victim who is likely afraid and traumatized in the situation.
Point being, the state may be hog-tied in their response during to the existing laws. Stupid, yes.
Or the Duke Lacrosse case all over again:
It is the sponsors more than the media that is running the show. Money talks.
No way Anheuser Busch was ever pulling money. They saw a chance to jump in on the free publicity train and look good doing it. I'm not saying they condone domestic violence, but you know they've contributed to a great deal of it.
Alum, I could not disagree with you more. Due process applies to our legal system. It has zero bearing on the actions (or reactions) of the NFL or any other sports league. They don't have to wait for someone to be found guilty in court to take those steps. And in the case of Ray Rice or Peterson, there really is nothing to wait on, they have both admitted it. The NFL is allowed to be judge jury and executioner when it comes to policies regarding their employees. They arn't sending these guys to jail, they are telling them that their CRIMINAL actions will not be tolerated if it means losing billion $$$ sponsors.
I love that now its a "frothy mouthed hoard" just because people are sick and tired of professional athletes believing, behaving (and for the most part being treated) as if they can do no wrong.
Adrian Peterson beat a 4 year old till the kid bled. I will at least give him credit for manning up to that action, but the admission has been made right from the horses mouth that he did those actions. Screw due process, sit his ass out (and he is still getting paid anyway).
Well said.
That's a SCARY mindset. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has been accused of a crime. I would certainly hope you would want your due process before having your career and life potentially permanently altered.
You seem to be ignoring that the confirmation of this occurrence has come from the person that is being accused directly.
I am certainly not in favor of someone having their life ruined over an allegation with no proof.
That is not the case here. We know Peterson did this because he said he did it. There is no witch hunt. Ray Rice admitted the altercation and there is video evidence of what happened. You seem to be arguing a different point to reality at this time.
Whether a court decides that it is child abuse or not is irrelevant at this point. A lot of people find hitting a young child with a stick reprehensible. What a court decides from a legal standpoint is meaningless in that regard.
If I called my job and told them I wouldn't be in because I was indicted for beating my child, I would not be the least bit surprised to lose that job.
I would lose my job no question abt it
I would hope the job put you on administrative unpaid leave or something prior to firing you for something that is an allegation until the jury of peers says otherwise.
so... exactly what's happening in the NFL?
I think what AZHokie is getting at is that in these situations (Rice and AP) is that it's beyond accusations. We have clear video of Rice knocking out Janay Palmer. We have Adrian Peterson admitting his guilt and photographic evidence of the damage done. When someone admits to being a child abuser or I see a video of a man beating his gf/fiancee/wife I don't need the legal system or due process to tell me he's an ass and deserves to be punished.
Apart from that, I'm sure the NFL and its teams have morality clauses in their contracts. Charged, found guilty, I'm not sure what's required to break the clause, but it wouldn't surprise me if having clear evidence of guilt would be enough to allow the league to act as judge, jury, and executioner.
It bothers me that the masses do not see an issue with this.
We're walking down a very slippery slope when you take the power of punitive punishment out of the courts hands, which is essentially what is being done right here. To subvert the judicial system like that is truly frightening.
We're not subverting anything. People aren't throwing them in jail or removing their voting privledges - we are just pressuring their employers (who produce entertainment) to remove them from the product, because otherwise their sales will suffer. OJ Simpson was found innocent in the court of law, but everyone knows he's guilty. We don't have to pretend he's innocent. That is not subverting the justice system, and neither is this.
This has been the case forever. Most employers have a morality clause in their contracts. Hence why people get terminated when they cheat on their spouse, especially if they are a face of the company. They're also no subverting the judicial system, the case is still going to court. At this point it's not public opinion swaying the decision due to lack of evidence, but a response by an employer to an activity they said they did.
Go to your boss and tell them you sell drugs on the side and make sure they know it's not a joke. You'd probably be fired before you'd go to court and get declared guilty or not guilty.
The NFL isn't putting him in chains, they're deciding who they allow to play in their league. As far as I'm concerned they're allowed to do that since they're a private institution with a large part of their success being at the hands of the public opinion. It doesn't matter if he's found not guilty in court, I (along with many) believe what he did was wrong and support the NFL in exercising their right to determine who is and is not allowed to play in this scenario.
You do realize the employer has the right to fire an at-will employee in most states regardless of if you are convicted of a crime, right?
We have Adrian Peterson admitting to disciplining his child, I could be wrong but I don't think he admitted to child abuse.
Discipline of a child is not child abuse. However, in this case AP definitely went over the line.
We have AP admitting to doing something that the overwhleming majority of people agree is child abuse. While he may not have specifically said "I abused this kid," he did say "I hit him repeatedly and injured him," which is basically the same thing.
Okay, I haven't seen any of the interviews. Paddling is far different than switching and I think most Americans are far more comfortable with that form of discipline.
He switched his child, leaving a number of large red welts that were still visible weeks later when the child was taken to the doctor. Regardless of your stance on the use of corporal punishment, he took it way too far and has admitted as much. What he hasn't admitted to is "child abuse", which is fair. Abuse would be if he did it out of anger or malice or a sick sense of enjoyment, as opposed to just disciplining his child the best way he knows how. I agree with his suspension, but I wouldn't support him being cut from the team and/or banned from the league, removing his livelihood. If the courts deem him guilty of child abuse, then get rid of him, let him do his time, and possibly give him a second chance. If the courts deem him not guilty, he still obviously needs some form of counseling.
I think we can all agree that the silver lining of this whole situation is bringing awareness to the issue, giving people that discipline their children similarly some real reasons to re-evaluate their parenting strategies.
Definitely agree.
2...2 4 year olds apparently. And if he would have sat there and took his whooping his head wouldn't be bleeding.
Edit: the sitting and taking the whooping is an alleged quote from AP and in no way reflects my stance on child discipline
I was waiting for this to be brought up.
The second one was already thrown out (after the mother tried to essentially sell the case to 2 states) because they didn't have nearly enough evidence to proceed to trial, and they didn't find the claims that credible. But hey, the accusation was made, so now ADP is a habitual child beater, right?
Yeah, there's no witch hunt going on right now.
How many times do you have to admit to being a child beater until you deserve to be called one?
...you F*ck one goat.....
I sincerely love the fact that this post made it to the green. In the midst of heated debate, no less. Impeccably done, Bragg.
Corporal punishment is still legal and administered in 19 US states, including Texas, where this happened. Are we at a point where we're going to call people criminals while they weren't breaking the law, as is stated on the books?
This is why we have a judicial system. To make an interpret the laws. Its absolutely foolish, and a disservice and insult to those who have that authority to say your opinion on the matter means more than theirs. Leave this to the courts, if they find him guilty, have at it. Until then, who the heck are we to judge.
I'd say if the vast majority of Americans feel that he crossed the line (which is clearly the consensus), then he did. We are his peers in society - if we aren't the ones to judge and decide what we should and should not tolerate, then who is?
Except the court of public opinion doesn't have that much power in the court of law. Over the past few years there have been quite a few high profile cases where if the judge and jury listened to the public people would be given the chair, yet they were acquitted.
And singing out of tune is illegal in North Carolina. There are tons of laws that need updating.
I've not heard anyone call him a criminal, but he is admitted to beating a child, legal or illegal seems to be missing the point that it is wrong. The NFL has every right to use the personal conduct policy to step in and take action to protect itself from losing sponsors... And the media has every right to report that AP admitted to beating his child, and then even tried to justify it. It's sickening that a grown man could beat a 4 year old child from head to toe and then blame it on the child for not standing still as the reason... So, while the good people of TX may think this is perfectly fine behavior, I disagree, and I don't need to wait around and see what the courts decide to make my mind up
There is a big difference between physically disciplining a child and abuse. AP stepped across that line. I think the people of Texas will be able to tell the difference as well.
Corporal punishment by a parent is legal in all 50 states, you might be thinking about corporal punishment in schools:
(States in Red allow schools to use corporal punishment)
For the player apologists, pretty much anything is acceptable as long as the guy's on the field for the next game. That's the unfortunate part of it - the seeming desire to ignore bigger issues just so a guy can play in a game.
Not sure who downvoted this, but evened it out for you.
I will admit to not looking into this accusation much because yes, I have seen pictures of the other accusation and seen that AP admitted to doing the beating and in my mind he has no reason to be around children and I am inclined to believe that he may have beat another child. What I did see, however, were reports that said he texted the mother that the child was hurt "from the car seat" and said "if he would have took his whooping it wouldn't have happened." If I read a bad article, it's on me, but regardless, I'm not going to use him as a babysitter while he's not playing. I already stated that I don't think the legal system has shown it can always be counted on in these situations after the Ray Rice case.
Man, FSU really is back.
How many Noles would've been suspended for the '99 title game if that would have happened today?
EDIT: By "that" I mean Peter Warrick and Co's shenanigans.
I'd be interested to know what the circumstances were that led up to this. Did it just pop in his head? Was it a dare? It's clear the guy has a tough time thinking through his actions, which can definitely be a result of age and environment, but you'd hope the kid would learn. Even if he won them an NC, I'm going to guess that Wee Man (Jimbo) and FSU are going to be happy to part ways with him at the end of the school year.
I love all the nolies defending him for just being a "dumb college kid". I had lots of fun when I was polyteching but I never shot out windows with bb guns, stole soda or crab legs or was involved in multiple sexual assault cases that just went away under mysterious circumstances. I may or may not have shouted some really dumb and inapproppriate things outloud after a few adult beverages. This "kid" really needs a full time babysitter, can you imagine how bad he will get when he has millions of nfl $ to blow? I can jsut see him and manziel competing over who can get away with the most criminole behaviour...
You use the past tense when talking about your polytechin' as if it stopped.
You can't stop polytechin' once you start. Ever, never.
I just want to put this out there....Heisman winner, sexual assaults, crab leg stealing, obsenity yelling.....Jamies Winston is a flipping TURD!!!!!!!!!!!!
he's just being a dumb dumb.. yeah i had fun in college but at a certain point you say ok ill behave now. It is obvious he has 0 common sense and i'm surprised people even were able to understand him.
AT some point, hopefully now, he needs to be sat down and told that he represents the school and the football team. That because of who he is everything that he does that may be negative will be put out there. People may say "oh he's just a young college kid being dumb." I got it, but that college kid is a heisman trophy winner on the #1 ranked team in college football. He's not some kid in a dorm room that nobody knows. The radio shows...at least on college sports on sirius XM are tearing him up for this.
New day, same Criminoles
Somebody was probably asking him what he'd do if he saw a drunk, underage girl passed out on a couch.
Jamies: "FHRITP" !
Call it a punishment, but this column by Dan Wolken seems, to me, like it's on the money. He'll never learn any accountability until if affects his team on the field. Three baseball games doesn't affect your season the way that one loss can affect a football season, which is what he was suspended for in the spring. Clearly he needs to learn something about discretion (among others), but this suspension doesn't seem like it's going to teach him anything if FSU can still win the game. Of course, this all hinges on FSU winning due to his contributions (not too farfetched).
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/acc/2014/09/17/jameis-winston...
While Jameis' actions were stupid, they really don't warrant any suspension. Cursing in public? Really?
This suspension is the university reacting to the twitterverse lynch mob mentality that seems to have reached a boiling point over the last two months with the sport of football.
I think he has used up any benefit of the doubt and was on a short leash. They're sending him a message - "grow up and stop being a dumbass"
When Twitter turns on you for killing a meme, you deserve what you get.
It's not like this is his first time getting into trouble for doing something stupid. He's been doing it since he got on campus and it's been swept under the rug. No one who is innocent runs into the law as much as he has. Granted we can't know for sure exactly what he's in the wrong for but he isn't close to an angel. He's been doing this and stuff that's 10x worse constantly and getting let off the hook. Given his biggest scandal this is even worse.
He needs to be shown he's not invincible or else FSU could ruin the rest of his life. This "punishment" isn't about the cursing, it's about everything they let slide for years.
Leonard...have to disagree with you.
If I am not mistaken, this is a public university. He was in the student center and yelled obscenties that certainly would make most females feel very uncomfortable. You can't just stand up in public and yell this stuff in our society, especially when you have his track record.
Think about it...if you had a daughter at FSU and she happened to be standing there when he did that? Would you want her to be subjected to his antics?
Considering his past allegations of sexual misconduct, his words could also be seen as threatening to women.
FSU had this to say:
"As the university's most visible ambassadors, student-athletes at Florida State are expected to uphold at all times high standards of integrity and behavior that reflect well upon themselves, their families, coaches, teammates, the department of athletics and Florida State University," the joint statement said. "Student-athletes are expected to act in a way that reflects dignity and respect for others."
Don't forget his quote from the crab theft incident...
"I realize that I am in the public spotlight and my conduct needs to be above reproach. ... I must realize that my mistakes are magnified and can bring great embarrassment to all those who support me every day."
The guy is a phony....and deserves to be suspended for the entire game.
I can see both sides here. If this were another player with no history of boneheadedness, I wouldn't be surprised to see no suspension and probably not even see it in the news. It's in poor taste no doubt, but I don't think yelling obscenities in public necessarily warrants a suspension. I think we're seeing FSU admitting that they have to step up and send a message to this idiot because they've failed to discipline his past more serious indiscretions. If they keep letting it slide with absolutely no repercussions, his behavior will never improve (not that I think it will anyway, but I digress). They're doing too little too late to try to curb the second coming of Marcus Vick.
Was it actually a "University" decision? I kinda' doubt that. My understanding was that Fisher levied the suspension (under pressure no doubt), which I think is more appropriate. If this kind of decision has to escape the Athletic Department to be made, FSU has bigger problems than Jameis Winston.
On a side note, I made the mistake of visiting Tomahawk Nation for some context and... ugh... the mental gymnastics that go on over there are beyond sad. There are a few reasonable folks, but they seem to be in the minority.
I respect all your opinions, and I understand where all of you are coming from. (Even you, downvoter) I'm just a little fed up with knee-jerk, reactionary discipline lately that is based on internet mob rule.
If Jameis Winston is guilty of sexual misconduct, crab leg heist, or destruction of property, then by all means nail him to the wall for that. But this kind of behavior usually warrants a sit down with the coach, and extra up-downs at 5:00 am.
Fundamentally I agree with you. I for one am not under the impression that this is a result of media/social media outcry so much as an admission by FSU that they have failed to properly address his past issues and that if they don't start now his behavior is going to continue to get worse.
Its not acceptable for anyone to stand on a table and yell "Fuck her right in the pussy". I mean is the dude just plain stupid? Especially after the allegations of rape he yells something like that? I would suspend that boy for a whole game because that's the only way he'll learn. If FSU lost that game all his teammates would look down on him for putting himself over the team.
I agree. What I've heard over a lot of the sports radio shows is that they would have suspended him for the entire game. Now they are setting him up to be the hero. If FSU is down at half time or the game is close and then he comes in and FSU rolls the second half to a comfortable win, what message does that send to Winston?? Basically saying that he can do whatever he wants.
I don't understand the people who are saying that "cursing" in public isn't a big deal. Well depends on what is said. If he stood up on the table and just yelled shit or something I'm sure not much would have been done. However with what he's been through plus the fact that he had the potential to have some girl take serious offense to it and claim harrassment. I'm sure that's something the team and the school does not want to deal with.
I wonder if he'll declare after this season. I dont' know if his career will last another year in college....but with FSU who knows.
Maybe I come from another time, or perhaps I'm just old-fashioned. One of the early lessons that my parents impressed upon me, and one that I (hopefully) have ingrained on my kinds, is that there is no room for foul language in public (or anywhere, really). One thing that I remember my Dad telling me was "You're a pretty smart kid. You're smart enough to find other ways to express yourself without having to use bad language." Now, you can make what you will about the first half of that statement in regard to Famous. One thing I know for sure. Jameis has no idea how happy he is that he is not my child. For that matter, Jimbo has no idea how happy he is, either.
yeah if i was jameis winston by dad would be looking at some adrian peterson type charges because i would for sure be out in the yard picking some switches to bring back to him to whip me with.
so Jameis supposedly rapes a girl, steals crab legs yells obscenities and gets a slap on the wrist, safe to say no matter what he does, he will get away with it and continue to get slaps on the wrist
IMO the way FSU/Jimbo are handling this immature kid is completely wrong. How many times is this going to happen before he gets punished and a good punishment. Not missing a game against an FCS team, how about missing a game and suspended for a week from all football activities. There comes a time and point to get behind the kid and try to help him but when you don't punish him properly the first time he/she becomes invincible.
The argument/excuse that he is only a sophomore is absolute BS in my book. Ohhh so the alleged rape case wasn't enough for this kid to figure out ohh maybe I should stay low. Nope or maybe stealing crab legs from Publix could have been his 4th warning with FSU.. Now we have a 5th issue and its an absolute travesty that FSU administration is not getting involved and dealing with him other than a 1/2 game suspension.
I understand that a good/heisman player will be put into the spotlight ala Johnny Manziel but at least he was just drinking a lot.. Not allegedly raping girls and making fun/poking a joke about it.
No NFL team should draft him and deal with his crap. He will end up like another Ray Rice
In typical FSU fashion, it didn't take long for FSU fans to realize the true evil in this scenario, and start threatening those who Reported on what Jameis was doing
that's what even more amusing.. The fact that people are threatening other student/ so called snitches for something as dumb as this. The kid deserves to be punished and sooner or later we will really find out what happened. Idk how you can back a kid that may or may not have raped someone then act as if its a joke with the comments/saying he yelled out. Regardless what happened he should have learned from Johnny Football and stayed quiet however you can't hide stupid
I would have slapped him so hard in his face damn.. What a disgusting/disgraceful athlete we all know he isn't much of a student.
I wouldn't have slapped him, only because he's a giant compared to me and would have pounded me into the ground.
I also do not know what kind of student he is.
But about that snitches statement...I recall when Dorial Green Beckham was...cited?...arrested?...for dragging some girl around by her hair and some guys approached her to ask her not to do anything about it because 'he didn't need to get in trouble'.
False. He did need to get in trouble. I think Winston needs to get in trouble, too. Can't learn if there are no punishments.
Yea, I don't think any of us want him to hit us. He skrong.
Plus any assault would likely be brushed under rug by the TPD...
I agree with you, but that is not quite how I remember the DGB incident. He forced his way into his girlfriend's apartment and shoved one of her roommates down some stairs. Then he left with his girlfriend, with is arm allegedly around her neck.
It was actually the girlfriend who was trying to keep him out of trouble. Some of her text messages were released in which she is pleading with her roommate not to press charges because "football is all he has" and "he wouldn't make it in a real job." The roommate ultimately decided not to press charges citing that she feared the potential backlash from the community.
Yup, totally correct. Looked it up after you posted.
It's a shame such a talented QB can be such a knucklehead
I think Jimbo Fisher's system is very good at making "eh" qbs into superstars. I mean, look at Jamarcus Russel, EJ Manuel and Christian Ponder. All Fisher 1st rounders that flamed out (or are in the process of flaming out) quickly.
Not to mention FSU is generally loaded with extremely talented players that are able to bail each other out when someone makes a mistake.
Agreed, but just pointing out that maybe Winston is not so much a hyper-talented amazing qb as he is another Jimbo Fisher project.
I cant believe Florida State, this is such a joke. This kid should have had some serious penalties brought down upon him by now. If he was at our program Beamer would have suspended him a whole season just over the rape case. Looking at his rap sheet its pretty silly that this is the thing that finally got him suspended though. He has actually been arrested before and this incident didn't actually bring any legal action on him.
i wouldn't say suspended the whole season but definitely taken a leave of absence. until things get figured out Look at how Beamer handled the Journell case and the RB i think his name was Michael something .... Both were placed on leave of absence from all team activities. However FSU couldn't due that because of the implications it would have had on their Title game.. The NCAA is a joke so they're not going to do anything so now its up to the school and the school decided hmm millions of dollars over a classy university.
Beamer didn't even have to handle some of that stuff. Isn't it university policy that if you're charged (or is it exclusive to being convicted?) with a felony, you're suspended from all university activity?
They just have to be charged.
True, it is not Frank's decision. The guideline was created so that the onus would not be on the head coach (of whatever sport involved), but that it was a university policy. That is preferable to the whims of any coach, now and in the future. It also provides the coach the ability to enforce other actions in advance of the university sanction.
For example - if a player is captured on video committing some criminal action, the head coach can immediately suspend the player without waiting on charges. Once charges are determined, then the university policy is in effect. Thus the head coach could suspend a Jameis Winston action regardless of whether there are felony charges involved. But the coach couldn't sweep the charges under the rug until the offseason if there were indeed charges, either.
It's a good fundamentally sound policy. It forces a certain action early so that no sense of stalling can be formed. It also allows the coaches to implement sanctions in case certain actions are egregious, but don't actually result in criminal charges.
I fully agree with you maybe I'm just spoiled because we have one of the classiest programs in the nation but this truly disgusts me.
You're thinking of Michael Holmes. Virginia Tech's policy is to automatically suspend any player charged with a felony. Players can be reinstated later if the circumstances warrant it (see Dahman McKinnon).
I'm glad Frank doesn't have an issue like this to deal with, but I would be interested to see how he'd handle it since Winston hasn't been charged with any felonies.
I am appalled with much of what I've heard about what goes on in FSU athletic circles, and I think Winston is a colossal idiot, but I absolutely cannot justify a suspension based on an accusation. Colleges are already implementing sexual assault policies that allow for punishment based on a preponderance of evidence, and innocent people are paying a price for it. You have to let due process do it's thing.
Nobody gives a crap about due process anymore. They want to see guys knocked down a rung or 2. They want immediate gratification, and they want anyone who's even accused of something to pay. They want to see others suffer to make themselves feel better.
Heck, there's a whole set of replies in this thread that demonstrates this mindset.
Not necessarily. I've been back & forth with you in this thread and I hope you got to see Goodell speak just now because I'm interested to see your take (largely because we have differing opinions and you've been the only person willing to stand up for and debate your views and differing opinions and I absolutely respect that you're voicing your view with more than upvotes). Myself and several others have heavily criticized Rice and AP, and in my case this is because I saw Rice on video punching a female and I have seen pictures of a child with numerous wounds that AP admitted to inflicting. There's no due process for me in these instances. They're both guilty in my mind (and much of the public opinion from the looks of things). Greg Hardy was convicted and is appealing, I could see an argument for either side there and I haven't taken him on at all. McDonald hasn't been charged with anything has he? And he's playing, I'm not objecting to that. Let due process play out in those cases. You're right in that if everyone is suspended for accusations we'll see people blackmailing players trying to make an easy buck just taking a payment to be quiet, that can't happen. But like I said, we saw what we saw with Rice & AP. There's no denying what Rice did and AP confirmed what he did. Winston is one of those cases where there's smoke there's fire. He may not have been charged or convicted, but problems clearly follow him and FSU needs to get control.
Good grief, Alum. Please calm down about the due process thing. He didn't do anything illegal, nor is he being punished as such.
He is a representative of the school, who represented the school poorly. The school has every right to punish him by removing some of the privileges (playing FSU football) granted to him for a very short time. He's not going to jail, he's not being fined, it's not going on his criminal record. The reason why no one "gives a crap about due process" in this case is because it has nothing to do with this situation.
I wasn't talking about just this case.
The other 2 cases I saw discussed, 1 has video, and the other has a person admitting to beating a child (actually more than one child, on more than one occasion) so I'm not really sure why we have to withhold our personal opinions until they go through the legal process
The other cases have nothing to do with this one and the phrase "wasn't talking about just this case" also means you include this case in your being upset about "due process" not being followed.
My point stands as previously stated.
I'm talking about the mob mentality of society right now. Nobody gives a rats ass anymore about due process. Be it with the NFL, with cases like the Zimmerman trial in Florida, with what happened in Ferguson, what happened with the Duke Lacrosse case, or the OJ Simpson trial, or any other countless amount of media firestorms we've had. Something goes wrong, and someone has to immediately pay. Society wants instant gratification without giving a damn about giving those involved. I'm sick of the whole mantra nowadays of wanting to jump the gun and punish someone for an accusation. Time and time again, you see someone publicly lynched through the media only to see that when all the facts are presented, they're actually innocent.
Let this crap play out in the court of law. I'm sick and tired of the media acting as judge, jury, and executioner with every new case. People have legitimately had their lives ruined because of the media firestorm.
I have a severe distrust for the media ever since I saw firsthand the shit they pulled on campus after April 16th. Seeing that scum dressed as students trying to sneak their way into classrooms to get some kind of scoop necessitating the administration to activate keycard locks on buildings and posting notices for the media to stay away. And don't get me started on the swarm of media cockroaches converging on the line to the convocation just trying to get their 5 minutes of national airtime. And not to mention the local news agencies here in NC who started calling the house asking for an interview while we were back home for that 2 week break. That whole experience absolutely sickened me to the whole lot of them.
And I'm saying that has nothing to do with this situation or this thread.
Isn't this already true. All court cases, except criminal, only require a "preponderance of evidence." So, I would imagine all colleges already do that, especially considering they don't usually have a very sophisticated system to gather evidence. I just looked at VT's conduct code, and it definitely didn't mention "beyond a reasonable doubt." So, it's hard to determine how strict they are, but I'm guessing "preponderance of evidence" is the default, since it's the easiest to ascribe.
You got to remember, being kicked out of school isn't losing a right, it's losing a privilege. In criminal cases, the state is trying to remove the defendant's rights of freedom and liberty, thus the burden is on the state to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that the evidence is worthy to remove civil rights.
This also true with work places, the NFL, etc. Because firing someone is removing a privilege, due process isn't necessary. There is no legal basis or statute that guarantees due process for losing a privilege. In fact, unless you have a specific contract, your boss can fire you for anything, except for discrimination of race, gender, sexuality, etc.
You are correct. I guess it just worries me that schools can dole out punishment for criminal cases with a lesser standard of evidence than what a court would use. And yes, the schools aren't removing rights of freedom and liberty, but the ramifications of being kicked out of school, especially for something like sexual assault or rape, are still extremely damaging.
It's not that bad of a system. Essentially, with a "preponderance of evidence," the question is "Did the evidence show you committed the misconduct?" If the committee feels like the defendant did, based on the evidence, then convict.
If you didn't commit the misconduct, you should have a pretty good defense. I guess the slippery slope arises when you believe you didn't commit the misconduct, but schools have a very broad policy on when a misconduct is committed. Like in this example:
"We both drank a lot of liquor, got really drunk and we had sex. I didn't realize she was more drunk than me, but she consented at the time." The next day, she realizes she made a mistake and thinks she was too drunk to make a rational decision.
Is this rape? Maybe some schools say yes. And yea, I could see why many people would have a problem with that.
Right. My point is primarily focused on sexual assault and rape cases. False accusations or scenarios like what you described are unfortunately a very serious problem, especially on college campuses. I won't expound about that any more here, but if you're interested in some literature on it, this and this are interesting reads.
Now this brings up a very interesting point. Alum has said several times something along the lines of ruining players lives and I haven't had much sympathy because if Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson have half a brain they've set money aside and can lead a fruitfull life without the NFL or for a year or two until/if they're reinstated. A stricter NCAA/VT policy could really cripple a kid's future after an unfounded accusation.
Well, I think I mostly agree with you about Rice/Peterson. I'm not sure I would've permanently ended either's career (which is what they've effectively and done for Rice), but there's obviously no uncertainty about what they (Rice/Peterson) did in those cases. But I don't agree that one's immunity to punishment, whether it's legal or by a school/employer, should be contingent on their financial status. An NFL player should be protected from unfounded accusations just as much as a collegiate player. And again, I agree that in the Rice/Peterson cases, the accusations are not unfounded.
I think Alum's point is that even though in the Rice/Peterson cases the outrage is justified, it's very easy to imagine a scenario where someone's life could be ruined by the court of public opinion, even if they do retain all of their constitutional rights, and I think you can kind of see that with people calling for Winston's head for the rape allegations, even though he wasn't convicted. It just seems like a very slippery slope.
Doran example of this see the story of the security guard at the Atlanta Olympics they accused of planting a bomb.
Life was destroyed even though he was eventually found to be innocent.
Duke rape case is a close example.
he's out for the full game now
With him now out the entire game, if FSU loses this one, the students who reported this happening on campus are going to be driven out of town on a pike. The fans were already turning on them and threatening them before... it'll only get worse if and when they lose.
was that really happening? jeeze..