Virginia Tech Hokies wide receivers coach Aaron Moorehead will take the same position with Texas A&M Aggies according to a report from TexAg's Billy Liucci.
Former Virginia Tech assistant Aaron Moorehead hired by Kevin Sumlin as Texas A&M's WR coach. Set to arrive in Aggieland today.— Billy Liucci (@billyliucci) January 18, 2015
Virginia Tech hired Moorehead in 2013 to replace Kevin Sherman as part of Beamer Co.'s offensive staff overhaul. Before he joined the Hokies staff, Moorehead served as a graduate assistant at New Mexico (2009) and as Stanford's offensive assistant for wide receivers (2010-2012).
According to a report from David Teel, Moorehead received a recent bump in base salary from $175,000 in 2014 to $185,500 in 2015. However, Moorehead's base salary in 2015 would have been the lowest among Tech's assistant coaches by $67,310. According to the USA TODAY's NCAA staff salary database, Virginia Tech ranked ninth in 2014 for staff pay total ($3,583,250). However, Bud Foster's $800,000 annuity inflated that number. Without it, Tech would have been 28th overall.
| Name | 2015 Salary | 2014 Salary | Appointment Term |
|---|---|---|---|
| Aaron Moorehead | $185,500 | $175,000 | 6/30/2015 |
| Cornell Brown | $252,810 | $238,500 | 6/30/2016 |
| Shane Beamer | $252,810 | $238,500 | 6/30/2016 |
| Stacy Searels | $280,900 | $265,000 | 6/30/2016 |
| Torrian Gray | $275,600 | $260,000 | 6/30/2015 |
| Charley Wiles | $308,990 | $291,500 | 6/30/2016 |
| Br Stinespring | $337,080 | $318,000 | 6/30/2016 |
| Scot Loeffler | $424,000 | $400,000 | 6/30/2016 |
| Bud Foster | $600000 (+$300,000 retention bonus) | $1,369,500 | 12/31/2019 |
The fact of the matter is, Moorehead's time in Blacksburg has been worth every penny and more. Tech's now tasked to replace one of its best position coaches and top recruiters less than 3 weeks before national signing day. He squeezed 40-plus catch seasons out of Joshua Stanford, Willie Byrn and Demitri Knowles in 2013. He chopped wood on the recruiting trail and helped Tech sign stud receivers Isaiah Ford and Cam Phillips, among other players, on national signing day last February before coaching Ford, Phillips and Byrn to 40-plus receptions this past season.
Virginia Tech offensive coordinator Scot Loeffler, then offensive line coach Jeff Grimes and Moorehead were marketed as a package deal to Hokie Nation. The former two assistants would help Loeffler realized his vision for Virginia Tech's offense. Instead, Grimes and Moorehead accepted promotions outside of Blacksburg, and Loeffler has coordinated an offense that, according to F/+, ranked 91st and 85th in 2014 and 2013, respectively.
Given the talent, or lack thereof, inherited by the offensive coaches in 2013, a multi-year rebuild was inevitable. Unfortunately, considering how highly Frank Beamer values the continuity of his coaching staff, I doubt losing Grimes and Moorhead was part of his original blueprint.
It's still too early to deem Beamer's offensive staff shakeup following the 2012 season a failure, but 2015 is the make-or-break season. The new staff will have had two full recruiting cycles to replenish talent, and two seasons to implement its offensive scheme.
Right now, Frank Beamer must find another energetic recruiter and capable position coach to adequately replace Moorehead.
Comments
F-words.
This..and then some. Hope Whit and Frank have a good roster of guys to pick from.
Well goddamn. I'm happy for the guy, since this is obviously what he wants, but losing these talented guys is tough. I wonder how this will affect recruiting.
It's a swift knee to the moose knuckle for Hokie fans, as he's easily one of our best recruiters. However, if there was a year for him to go, it'd be this one. We don't have to worry about hanging on to any receiver commits and he's already put an outstanding core of young receivers together for the next guy.
Didn't he just offer a trio of talented guys? I bet our chances with them have diminished quite a bit. This guy is a special coach and recruiter. I think he ends up a big player in the coaching world sooner rather than later.
At least we have another year for the new guy to recruit those kids. Who knows? We might get another slam dunk hire. It's part of big-time football. Staff continuity isn't normal.
We have been spoiled here in terms of staff continuity. If anything, the recent departures by Moorehead and Grimes at least mean that we are hiring the right guys.
This OVER OVER AND OVER AGAIN!
Yea but not showing them the money to stay.
If a second heat coach gets a huge pay raise then the rest of the staff would need one. Tech doesn't have an unlimited pot of money.
Yes, this! Everyone keeps complaining how we need to pay our staff more, however people need to remember that we just hired a relatively expensive basketball coach, we're still paying out two former basketball coaches' contracts, and we're building an indoor practice facility (I'm not sure how much of that was financed straight from donors).
For the amount of time he has been coaching, Moorehead was payed well. His increase a TAMu is relatively small. Why he left for a lateral move is the question that needs answered.
As has been mentioned previously plenty of coaches make changes to build their resume & widen their ties. If he has a desire to move up as a coordinator or head coach I'd think it was a great move on his part. My guess though would be that he eventually ends up as wr coach in the pros.
20% is a fair bump in pay. From 185K to a minimum of 250K.
It's up for debate how lateral of a move this is, after all, TAMu's wide receiver's coach just got the head coaching gig at Kansas.
Well that stinks. Good luck to him. I guess this is what it's like to have talented coaches on the offensive side of the ball...
Exactly. The fact that they're getting hired away means we hired some good ones. Now to find another one and hold onto him. Hope whit, Scot and cfb have some good prospects.
We really, really can't have nice things.
*laughs*
*flips desk*
*sobs*
But seriously, if anything, with us losing Grimes and now Moorehead it just proves that Frank was on the right track with his coaching hires recently.
I wish you well, Moorehead.
But,God, do I hope we beat the brakes off Tamu now.
Yes, but I'd rather find out in a different way, by effectiveness.
We knew he was effective.
Scott will have a more difficult year because of this.
I totally agree
Unless Loeffler brings in a coach he recommends and that will be well knowledgeable to his system. I feel like part of the problem for Loeffler was that he was unable to form his own offensive staff.
oh sunuva bitch
edit: I get that we've been unusually stable in the coaching staff, and as a result we as a fanbase just aren't used to this sort of thing but I didn't see it coming.
I'm still pretty
haha my wife unfollowed him when I told her. #bitterhokies
She did the right thing!!
I was gonna ask appropriate amount of time to unfollow?
Ugh, this sucks so much. Best of luck to AMO though, I would of loved to have kept him but A&M unfortunately has the type of money that VT and a lot of other schools just can't compete with.
Oh fuuuuudge. Only I didn't say fudge.
[ immediate comments redacted ]
Gut punch. I'm happy for Moorehead, who is a standout assistant and recruiter, and seems like a great guy. I'm sick to my stomach over the fact that we lost him. My heart sank when I saw the title of the article. I can happily ignore #sources, but when Joe makes it front page news, it's done.
it's ok guys i got this
So.. panic and sadness aside, who is a comparable hire? Who is available?
So two things, who do we hire and how much is he going to make at aTm?
First major failing by Whit Babcock. I am sorry, but when you look at the 2016 offer list, plus you see how schools like Penn State, Maryland, and Tennessee are recruiting in the DC area, this is an absolute crushing blow.
I totally agree, it looks bad on us if we can't retain quality assistant coaches for more than two years. Exits like this only creates more instability to the program in the long run.
It's unclear if it's a Whit or Beamer decision.
A failure on Whit either way.
If a Whit decision, just the wrong decision.
If a Beamer decision, Whit should have thought about the future and overridden Beamer's choice.
Regardless of the process, blame falls on Whit's shoulders for this, IMO. I'm not saying grab the pitchforks and torches, but I AM saying Whit better make up for letting Aaron go with an absolute homerun hire.
Is it a failure that we can't spend as much as A&M?
I said yesterday, I think Moorehead is the one guy you go in the red for. He had the promise to be the coach we built the offense around like we built the defense around Bud.
Coaching movement happens. Even the bluest blood programs deal with it. Banking on keeping guys long term like Bud just isn't a viable strategy in todays football
Err... no, I can't agree with going into the red for any coach. I thought AMo was a huge benefit to the program, but nobody is worth risking sound financials on.
That said, I would have been more than happy if when Stinespring had been demoted, his salary had been reduced to something commensurate with his new position. And this isn't just anti-Stiney criticism. He's a hell of a TE coach, and an above average recruiter.
But he failed as an O.C., and as much as he benefits the program in other ways, he hadn't earned the right to be paid coordinator salary as a position coach. What he'd earned with all his dedication and hard work was the right to stick with the program in a diminished role when most other programs would have tossed him years earlier.
If he'd been paid commensurate with his new role, we could have afforded to sweeten the pot for Moorehead and Gray.
I think Stiney took a $50K cut when he got demoted. It was a chunk, I know.
Keep in mind I'm not talking about going MILLIONS of dollars in the red. Let's assume Aaron makes $250K in College Station. Would it really be that hard to work the budget to find an extra $70K to match the offer?
His pay would have then been how far above most of the other coaches?
If we had offered him $252,810 he would have been tied with Cornell and Shane as the lowest paid assistant salary.
Brown has been coaching since 2005 and Shane since 2004.
You pay based on ability not seniority. Aaron has proven himself and should be earning an average salary for his coaching position regardless of length of tenure.
Look at it this way. If we go out and get a proven coach with experience rather than another GA given his first shot at a full, official coaching staff position, we are going to wind up paying around the figure I was talking about anyway. Would you rather be paying that money for a gamble on a new guy, or on Moorehead, who we know is an excellent fit at VT and was building the program? That's a no-brainer in my opinion.
Length of tenure has nothing to do with it if you've proven yourself, and Aaron has proven himself.
Totally agree. If we want to go out and find a worthy replacement with experience, we're going to have to pay him more than 185k to bring him in. We should have been able to give Aaron a better raise and made a better effort to keep him around. Even though he is a young coach, I feel like his raise should reflect his performance. It's going to be a tough pill to swallow if we pony up and pay an experienced replacement more to come in when we seemingly made little effort to secure AMo going forward.
Then it is a major failing of whoever's decision it is. But as the AD, he signs the checks, no matter how much he lets the HC's choose their own people.
Joe, didn't Beamer request that Moorehead and Gray get a special raise for recruiting well? If that is true I would speculate that Whit was the one who refused any sort of pay raise for them and Beamer fought to get them that special recruiting raise. Ultimately it wasn't enough obviously.
They did get the raise.
The pay raise was peanuts but Amo had plenty of non-monetary reasons to leave.
Maybe we weren't given the option to match.
A 10% raise isn't peanuts. Tell that to most of the country that hasn't gotten raises in years, and most of the time if they do get a raise it is 1-3%.
It wasn't meant as a political commentary, and in the context of the D1 cfb coaching market ~$20k is peanuts.
Burns that it's a lateral move. Can't compete with the big guys if we can't pay our best assistants/recruiters enough to stop them from taking the same position at a big guy.
Disagree, it's not a lateral move. Forget that he will undoubtedly be paid more, he gets to learn from a well respected offensive guru in Kevin Sumlin.
That will serve us well when we hire him back as OC in a few years.
This a thousand times. Looking at the chart, we were set to spend nearly 1.5 mil on offensive coaches this year. Loeffler gets nearly a 25k raise, Stiney 20k, Shane 15k, and AMo only 10k. That leaves him still the least-paid assistant coach by a mile (roughly 70k). Arguably, he was our best offensive position coach and recruiter, not to mention coming off a season when Ford and Phillips had record freshman seasons and are on pace to be two of our best wideouts in school history. We have the money to pay assistants; I'm just wondering from the chart if we're necessarily spending it in the most effective manner.
Meh, he's only been a coach for 2 or 3 years now? He's younger and less experienced than every other offensive coach. He's a great coach and recruiter but he's still learning. Whose salary would you lower to give AMO a raise? How much more would you have paid him?
Amen.
I don't necessarily think he should be paid more than the longer tenured coaches on payroll, but I feel like his raise could've been a little better. Between all the other offensive assistants, they received around 75k combined in raises. And all of the others make substantially more than AMo. I feel if we had brought him up around the 200k range we maybe could've had a better shot at keeping him. Maybe not - who knows what the aTm deal looks like. But I feel like there is a huge disparity between him and the other coaches. I know he's a young coach, but he was really paying off on the recruiting trail and on the field. Just my opinion.
Actually, every coach got a 6% raise, except AMO and Gray, who both got a larger raise. From Andy Bitter:
I disagree. Young, ambitious coaches move around to better their skills and contacts. I'm sure he would have stayed if we dpubled or trled his salary but this was likely a move to grow himself as a coach moreso than any negative on anyone in Blacksburg.
If I could do one of those fancy moving pictures with up vote arrows it would go right here.
^
Agreed. Opportunities, people, you gotta take 'em!! Can't fault him for that.
But I am sad to see him leave. He was an excellent addition to our staff.
If we don't replace with someone who is energetic, can recruit, and teach the WR position, I'll call it a failure. I don't assume that Mooreheads skills can't be matched by the plethora of coaches out there.
I think there are plenty of good ones out there, we just aren't used to having them so we think they're rare.. or more rare than they really are.
Edit: forgot a word.
I think we should remain calm and let this play out before blaming anyone, Whit, Frank or whomever. The way I see it, everyone has been singing Whit's praises, and rightly so, for his shrewd moves so far. Maybe, just maybe, Whit not matching or beating an offer from A&M was a shrewd move as well. Maybe Whit already had another plan in mind, another home run hire. You have to believe that as good as his decisions have been so far that he had to be mindful of this possible scenario unfolding, and have at least an idea of a "plan B" in mind.
Enjoy your optimism but we'll see.
First sign of good news - The Rock is still on board.
http://virginiatech.247sports.com/Bolt/Moorehead-news-will-not-affect-Du...
Looking long game, though, Moorehead was involved with a bunch of 2016 prospects. While hopefully this move doesn't hit 2015 too hard, the next hire will absolutely have to keep up the momentum for the future.
The Rock was the only recruit who I legitimately feared could decommit because of AMO leaving. This is good news.
I know it's just been announced he's leaving but any word on who could possibly be his replacement?
According to USA TODAY's NCAA assistant coaches salary database, Texas A&M's lowest paid assistant made $250,350 in 2014. AMO made $175,000.
I do think it would've been worth it to drop some cash to keep AMO, but to play devil's advocate, AMO has 5 years of coaching experience (excluding years as GA). The lowest paid assistant at A&M (Jeff Banks) has 15 years of coaching experience.
This blows, hard, but Loeffler found grimes, Searels, and Moorehead. I trust his ability to find great coaching
Loeffler worked with Grimes at Auburn, and Pep Hamilton was the one that recommended Moorehead from his time at Stanford. I wouldn't give Loeffler too much credit for finding anyone.
In that case, shit
On the plus side, if you swap "Beamer" for "Loeffler" in your original post, you're not only right, but reassuring. Frank has made some good hires in recent years. He has a good staff around him to help him focus his search for what the team needs.
Maybe that flight tracker had some truth afterall... :(
Damn - didn't think of it that way... Good point.
Isn't Bud Foster also going to Texas A&M? Maybe that's why Aaron decided to take an offer there so he can forever work with Bud.
(sarcasm)
too soon man
He'll serve aTm well, I'm sure. He's got a bright future ahead of him in coaching, and will be missed.
Big blow.
First off props to Moorehead on doing a great job in a tough situation, we will sureley miss him.
That said, I would expect/hope that A&M asked permission to speak to him and Whit had agreed and he had been looking at who might be available as replacement.
Now excuse me while I go off and smash china, furniture and firewood
I don't think it's standard practice to ask permission to talk to a position coach, just head coaches and occasionally coordinators.
fuck.shit.balls.
I wish I could give a thousand turkey legs for this, BSG is my favorite show.
Didn't AMO bring a GA last year from Stanford who was a WR? His name is not coming to me help someone.
Drew Terrell.
What's Antonio Freeman up to these days? Any interest in coaching?
Lol, I was thinking Andre Davis
Now THAT'S an idea.
If we're talking former Hokies I bet that David Clowney would make a good coach.
Plus Florida ties...
From one Columbia Hokie to another - I had a huge man-crush on David Clowney. Such a gutty player.
Looks like he works with mlber Reggie Sanders in myrtle beach area with non profits.
Looks like no coaching he is doing media stuff for the packers and COMCAST in dc.
I think there is a better chance that Ronald Curry gets the job than Freeman.
Was thinking the same thing!
And that's ANOTHER idea.
This was actually the first thing that popped into my head
I jwent to un-follow him on Twitter as a way to show my frustration, then found out I didn't follow him.
why? that's childish.
By all accounts from everywhere he has played and coached he is a great guy, coach and player. He seems like the kind of person you would want to follow whether he was part of Virginia Tech or not
I don't see the point in following coaches that no longer coach for us... not out of bitterness but just because I'm no longer interested in what he's doing to help a team that's not our own.
That's fine, but this isn't what was said above. He was unfollowing as a method to vent frustration at Moorehead, not because he is not a VT coach.
Right but in reality, I don't think Moorehead is going to know or care why anyone unfollowed him. It's a pretty harmless avenue to vent frustration.
we're talking about different things. I agree with what you say, disagree with what he said. Or maybe how he said it might be more apt. anyway, no worries.
No one cares about following or unfollowing on twitter. Not childish or mature. It is just something you do.
Precisely. It's not like it's Facebook or anything...
If you really wanna ruin his day, down vote his posts on here.
sometimes you just got to be an irrational, emotional football fan
Yeah, let's not break out the torches and pitchforks. Aaron is resume building. I wish we could have kept him, and I hope to God Whit tried, but I can't blame Aaron for wanting to coach under Sumlin.
An attempt at humor won't always be recognized. I went to un-follow him because I have zero interest in reading updates from a position coach for A&M.
He's a very good coach, I appreciate his contributions to our program, and look forward to seeing who will replace him.
Goes to show that Frank made a killer higher when he got Moorehead in the first place.
Let's hope he can do it again. Look how worked up we are getting about the WR coach leaving
Frank didn't *hire* him. Weaver did.
So there was a killer, and he was high, and after Frank hired Moorehead the killer was even more high?
Heterographs....they'll get after ya...
Crap. This one hurts. I've been saying for a long time now, A Moorehead was going to be a great one for us, and we needed to do everything we can to keep him with Tech.
Don't know what his salary is going to be, but won't be surprised if he'll be making 70k more than he was slated to make here.
It's just very hard to compete with that money, especially for a young up & coming coach.
Hope like hell Whit & Beamer comes up with another great hire, with a lot of input from Loeffler.
No state income tax in Texas, also.
What's sad is that when it came to thinking about replacements, my first thought..."What's ECU's WR coach up to these days?" :p
It's not that sad, ECU has had some good receivers in the past several of years and an absolute stud in Justin Hardy this year.
Yeah, mostly tongue-in-cheek with all the ECU buzz around here .. he'd actually be a REALLY good hire considering he's also a recruiting coordinator and ass. head coach
I read that as "ass coach". Couldn't figure out why we needed that.
I've never been to Greenville to see the co-eds myself, but I concede the possibility that we need that.
... and then the ECU fans would feel exactly how we feel. Assuming ECU pays less than VT, and moving to VT would be considered a step up on his resume.
What blows even more is that in addition to being the WR Coach, he was also the coach who relayed the OC plays to the players on offense. So in a sense, it's a double blow to the offense. Add in his recruiting prowess, and bang, a three hit combo. DAMN IT!!!
What about ODU's WR coach? He's young, has recruited well for a school like ODU, and is from VA Beach and actively recruits there. Not saying we should go that route, I'm just spouting off ideas to hide the gaping hole of sadness in my heart at the moment.
Like I have said countless times, VT doesn't need to improve offensive recruiting in the 757. The program needs national scope in all aspects off offensive recruiting, most especially for offensive line and wide receivers.
We got some big ol' cornfed farm boys up this way and I was ecstatic when I heard Aaron was looking at OL from Mundelein and Decatur. I hope that doesn't dry up now.
Cool. I would like to see us improve our recruiting everywhere, including the 757.
My biggest fear isn't even losing Moorehead per se, but with Grimes last year and now Aaron, I'm worried about Frank reacting like he did after Kevin Rodgers followed Childress to the Vikings and making hiring decisions based more on loyalty than ability.
Yeah, that's a risk we all worry about, but I think Frank's eyes have maybe been opened a bit the last couple of years, and even if his tendency is to value loyalty first, I think Whit will have a lot of input, and will not accept a hire based on that.
Stiney to WR coach? JK JK. put the stones down.
Dude, I'll be 100% honest with you. Stiney is one HELL of a tight ends coach, and I'm gonna bet he could be the type of WR coach that would compliment Lefty's scheme. (Emphasis on blocking, crisp route running, helping sell the play action through releases, etc.)
Having said that, I DON'T think we go that route.
There are economic realities and we had to pony up to keep Bud.
We have an AD that I am sure would be happy to speak with you about support for coaches salaries :)
Next man up. Aaron Moorehead might have been the biggest steal we could've gotten two years ago, but something tells me he's not the only great WR coach/recruiter we can obtain in Blacksburg.
This is how things happen when you have great coaches - we're about as used to this as we are barely pulling a winning season together....in the end, I think we'll be alright.
Goddam, son, but if your optimism isn't infectious.
Anybody think we'll try to get someone and offer a co-offensive coordinator or passing game coordinator title to go along with the WR coach position. It might help us get in the door with some better candidates...
Moorehead wasn't just our WR coach, he was heads and shoulders our best recruiter. This hurts badly because nobody else on staff has shown they are capable of recruiting with the effectiveness and tenacity of Moorehead. If he lef5 purely for money, then shame on everybody associated with the program because they just showed that all the talk about returning to national prominence was just that... Talk. Very disappointed to hear this happened.
IF he left for money... then unless you have intimate knowledge of the kind of money Whit has available to him to make a counter offer to him in order to keep him, and the necessary bumps to other staff that would be required to adjust accordingly, then I think this comment is shortsighted. How can you call shame on anyone involved without knowing that?
Could be even we offered the same money Moorehead still would choose to leave because he felt it was a smart career move. No shame in that to anyone on either side of the table.
I agree with both of you. I'm hoping that Whit matched the offer but Aaron wanted to work with an offensive genius to improve his resume.
AMO is a terrific recruiter, but Stinespring isn't chopped liver on the trail.
Or Shane, or Cornell, or Searels, or Gray. We have some good recruiters who put in the hours. If we go out and get another young, enthusiastic coach for the job I think we'll be okay in the recruiting department.
Loeffler is a great recruiter also. To bad our two hall of fame coaches don't see recruiting for what it is.
Are we going to have the "Frank and Bud don't recruit" discussion?
Lol, just like the discussion Frank and Bud had with Jalen Dalton and Josh Sweat at their in home visits there won't be a discussion about this. Facts are facts and we have 2 hall of famers that don't want to do what it takes to recruit 5 star talent. Good try though. Have a leg.
There's a difference between not "seeing recruiting for what it is" and whiffing on recruits. I'd bet the farm that Frank and Bud could see what Dalton and Sweat could have done for the program, and they tried their best to land them. Now, their seeming inability to actually land these recruits is an argument that you could stand on, but your insinuation that they don't "see" or care about recruiting doesn't hold water.
I'm guessing you are not privy to some info on the pay sites. Also I don't think what I'm saying is coming across the way I want it to and I apologize for that. I will address both in hopes that it will come across the internet with a little more clarity.
As far as Dalton and Sweat it has been confirmed that Bud nor Beamer made a in home visit. The night before Dalton decided Bud and Frank were supposed to be there but cancelled. Guess who took their place? Larry Fedora head coach at North Carolina. Dalton was giving us the chance to put an exclamation point on his recruitment. Instead we thought he was in the bag an let the charismatic Fedora in the door that night. Sort of like how we thought Darrell Taylor was in the bag also. Sweat was scheduled until Beamer had throat surgery. Nothing on him there that's a scary situation. But Bud should have still made the trip. Onto the next point of emphasis.
What I originally replied to was someone giving a list of the great recruiters we have at Tech. I love what Frank has done for Virginia Tech. I can remember as a kid going to games and there being no one there. My how things have changed and he's the biggest reason we are a top 25 football school. Problem is you can't continue to recruit in 2015 like you did in 1996. Social media being the biggest reason. Frank Beamer is probably the best coach we will ever have here at Virginia Tech. However his one flaw is recruiting. Every insider knows it and is talked about freely on every other board except this one. That's fine each one has its own niche. But to say they are trying their hardest for five star talent is just flat out incorrect. Just as an example:
Let's say Virginia Tech is a marketing firm and seen as the favorite to get the marketing campaign for the NFL (5 star talent). However the longer it goes another power house marketing firm is starting to sway them. But our management knowing we were the favorite in the beginning decided not to make a final pitch the day before the decision. But Alabama did and got the NFL account. Ask yourself this did our management do everything possible to get the account? BTW this is why I love the Key Play tons of varying opinions.
The thing I hate is people being downvoted for not agreeing with the popular opinion. No biggie though.
Just because you pay to read something does not in itself make it true.
Lulz I guess you're right. I know I know burn the heretic for not saying Frank and Bud are the end all be all. I guess pay sites could lie about sources. Except it was confirmed by Sweat and Dalton. So......
Juxtaposed against that are the hundreds of kids who have raved about the recruiting by Foster and Beamer.
How many of those were 5 star recruits that they gave a in home visit to that we actually pulled? I'll wait for your answer.
So you based your entire assumption that FB and BF don't like to recruit on two cases? Those wold be what people call outliers.
Do you want more from just this year?
Darrell Taylor Tennessee
Clelin Ferrell Clemson
Shy Tuttle Tennessee
Darwin Taylor FSU
Ricky DeBerry OU
Garrett Taylor PSU
If you want me to go back to Dashawn Hand or Korren Kirvens years I could do that also. I'm not saying Beamer is a bad coach all I'm saying is recruiting isn't his or Buds strong point. If you can't see that I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Imagine what Bud could do with 4 and 5 star d linemen.
He's about to get his chance to with Tim Settle.
The problem with your argument is that you equate "can't" with "don't want to" or "won't." By all accounts, recruiting is better than it has been in a long time, in terms of infrastructure and results. Have we whiffed on some premiere guys that we could have gotten? Undoubtedly. There is some criticism there, to be sure. But to claim that Bud or Frank don't want to recruit or don't like recruiting is simply wrong. They're not sealing the deal on some guys, but they're certainly impressing a large share of others.
Oh yeah for sure recruiting is alot better. I'm overall happy with it but if you want a 5 star and Nick Saban is doing a in home and your not you shouldn't even waste the scholarship offer. If you want to do big boy recruiting you have to recruit like the big boys.
Here's something you won't read on your pay sites:
When I met with Dalton to give him a sheet of CVS coupons and an unused 9 oz. CO2 canister, we met at a Bojangles for lunch. When I tried to pay for our food, my card was declined and he ended up paying for my meal.
Don't blame Bud and Frank for not recruiting like the big boys. Blame me for being broke.
you gotta tighten up Wilson
Except that Bud Foster and the rest of the defensive staff + Stinespring did visit Sweat the week prior to his decision... which makes me question the accuracy of the rest of your assertions.
You need to double check that chief. The defensive staff did visit no Bud though. Foster was supposed to show up with Beamer.
The source on that is Hokies Journal, who reported that all nine assistant coaches visited Virginia Beach leading up to Sweat's commitment.
And I'd highly recommend adopting a friendlier tone when taking part in friendly discussions.
I think I'll take what was reported by a FSU insider when he talked to Sweat.
Take whatever you want, but now we're into the realm of competing sources.
I understand that my argument is one side has a reason to spin it one way the other side has no reason to.
Insiders are typically insiders because they can't hack it as journalists, and the only way they stay insiders is to make with some juicy gossip. Whether true or not, as long as it drives web clicks and trends on Twitter, the insider keeps his status. So no, an inside source isn't immune to the need to spin. Is argue insiders are more apt to spin a story to make it more sensational.
Regardless, the fact remains that the argument that Frank and Bud don't recruit is old hat. Everyone's heard it enough times to form their opinion on whether or not we see enough effort out of the big whistle and our DC on the trail. An anonymous source who had lunch with Josh Sweat's auntie one Tuesday probably isn't going to tip the scales on a lot of opinions.
When in doubt, go with the guy with more turkey legs
I know that's how it works on this website. As well as if you have a different point of view you are crucified.
actually I was just looking for an excuse to waste time at work and make a gif
Oh yeah man no worries I was just making an observation. It was absolutely nothing against you.
It doesn't matter what your point of view is if you come across condescending and demeaning to your opposition. While this is the internet, having some sort of people skills to engage in a constructive discussion/debate lends to a more positive response from your audience.
TKP Etiquette Must be Upheld
On that note this being the Internet everything doesn't come across as it should or how it was meant. This has turned into something I didn't want. A pissing contest about how awesome or lack thereof Frank and Bud are at recruiting. The original statement stands trup though they are our weak links at recruiting. But make up for it in different ways Bud is the best defensive coordinator with what he hasin the nation and Frank built Virginia Tech to what it used to be and where I hope we get back to at some point.
Actually I think it's turned into more of an instance of people, myself included, taking issue with your tone. There's tons of disagreement on this site regarding all aspects of the program, and there are plenty of people who side with you on this topic. TBH I'm closer to siding with you, though that perception of mine is changing as we have gone on the aggressive in recruiting the last two cycles and it had paid dividends.
The problem isn't that you think CFB and Bud lack in recruiting effort, it's that you're meeting every disagreement that comes your way with a chip on your shoulder and a martyr complex. Now if you want to have a civilized discussion about what is and is not acceptable effort from senior coaches in recruiting, I'm down. If you want to cling to "read it on a pay site, therefore gospel," #sources, and claiming crucifixion when engaged in debate, you won't be a fan favorite here.
Well I'll apologize if I came across as an asshole didn't mean that. The only thing I meant by this was CFB and BFleave something to be desired in the recruiting aspect of their jobs.
After we played for the BCS championship in 99, a reporter asked Frank if he was going to use the momentum of the program to open up recruiting. His response was, "If anything, we're going to lock it down," and proceeded to talk about how the rise of the program would allow VT to cherry pick under best recruits in our existing footprint, which Frank thought was sufficient to field championship level talent.
I cringe every time I think about that quote.
I think the biggest cause for change in our recruiting strategy had been Shane's arrival. After seeing how the SEC does it, I think when Shane came into three program he saw how we were doing it vs his old employers and he had a heart to heart with his dad. Mind you, this is #conjecture not #sources, but our recruiting started to get aggressive around that time. I don't think it's a coincidence.
I also think the old staff got complacent and it bit us in the ass. But I think with each tweak to the staff we've gotten better at it. Now I think Frank has finally woken up, as evidenced by the fact that his first words about what he's looking for in a WR coach were, "You've gotta recruit."
I think Frank finally gets it. But what kills me is, what I'd he'd gotten it in '99?
You can have a critical viewpoint of the staff and still rack up the turkey legs.
You'll just have to trust me on this one.
Sucks. He was a great young coach and a great recruiter. I was curious to see how he would do with another year or 2 with the young guys but now we need another energetic guy
Pay or no play. Lowest by 67 grand. I would have left too. Good luck, Coach, we'll be seeing you when we play you in da Champineship.
Wow A&M. Just Wow. They stole J.B. Grimes from us in 1997. That being said, our shade of maroon is better.
Good for AMO at least he will be with a full coaching staff that recruits as hard as he does. I expect to see aTm top 3 annually now in recruiting rankings.
Hopefully it is to expand his resume and not due to money. But one of the things that hurts me the most is no more Vince Vaughn gifs when talking about him. It was so easy.
sooo... now who do we go after? If you look at it we do have a young bunch of WR's that have all the potential in the world. ok who am I kidding this is a low blow..like a choppin wood low blow.
Any idea as to who we would hire? Hopefully another young guy who can recruit...
I used this GIF last week and sadly its us this week .
Best of luck to Moorehead, he did a very solid job for us. While his title will be the same at A&M, he is absolutely upgrading his resume by going to a far more contemporary offensive team, as well as a higher profile team. Sumlin gets constantly mentioned for NFL jobs, so Moorehead might be able to parlay his way into something in the pros that way, too. It just makes too much sense for him not to do it - what with Beamer's impending retirement (coming sooner than later), the opportunity for more money, the opportunity to broaden his network and build his resume.
That last note is something that gets ignored an awful lot by internet Hokie fans. The concept of staying with one program forever is as antiquated in the coaching community as it is in the business world.
I didn't care to see Moorehead leave, but it makes complete sense for him & I wish him all the success possible.
This big time. The modern realities of athletic organizations are no different than any other professional endeavor. You gotta move over to move up.
Since Pep Hamilton recommended Moorehead, perhaps another call to Pep is in order.
What's Danny Coale up to these days?
somewhere being awesome
FIFY
Hmm so this is what it's like to have decent O coaches... It's strange to see our former offensive coaches who aren't only coaching for D3 schools now.
Now the true test will be whether Whitt can come back effectively. These days college coaches (just like pro players and coaches) are mercenaries. Once the established continuity is gone, prepare for revolving doors.
That last sentence is going the biggest shock to long time Tech fans. It will be a major complaint for the next 50 years.
So no sources was right!
WTF- pay the guy!
A few more things:
1) If his raise is anything like we're speculating, he's going to be making an additional middle class salary on top of what he made at VT. He's still young, getting way ahead on investments is a good idea.
2) Would you rather learn offensive football from Kevin Sumlin or Scott Loeffler?
I'm hoping it's more 2 than 1. I'd hate to think we're losing him because we refuse to pay him. That would be a Jim Weaver move right there.
Is Sumlin really all that? He's "progressively" finished 2nd, 5th & 6th in his division -- with a Heisman Trophy winner and a top 10 draft pick at WR, sitting in the middle of recruiting heaven in Texas, with the SEC brand to sell, and a program with a newly renovated stadium and money coming out of its ears.
BOOMM!!!! and this is why I think it was more than a $$ thing for AMO. The guy has a great opportunity to go and learn under a great OC and will have all the tools needed to succeed.
Look at what he did with our YOUNG Receivers...now Imagine what AMO could do with the influx of 4* 5* receivers year in year out.. He would be crazy not to take that offer especially if he wants to move on up to OC and come back to VT !!!
Yeah the $$ is great but its the SEC, recruiting area, and opportunity to strike it big. Look at Kiffin he is being linked with the 49ers and we all know he isn't that good. Have a good year or two in the SEC and the NFL gates/GM's come calling.
I think you missed my point. For all of these resources available to Sumlin (& Texas A&M), he (and it) has accomplished little in the the last three years (and the last 20 years for Texas A&M football as a whole).
You're also overstating aTm's WR recruiting. Yes, it's better than VT, but it's more accurately described as an influx of 3* & 4* receivers year in, year out. 5 of each over the last 3 years (along with one 5* in this years class).
I understand why Moorehead went, but I think money and diversifying his resume were more important than learning under the supposed expert tutelage of Kevin Sumlin.
still to get two 5*'s receivers in 2 classes is huge... Imagine what AMO can pull in once settled in.
Speedy Noil 14' and now Christian Kirk 15' who was pulled from Scottsdale AZ
Not to mention Ricky Seales-Jones who is 6'5 220 +
If VT were ever to pull those recruits in back to back years at WR good god Brewer would be Heisman worthy.
But the Defense needs work.. so I am glad Foster didn't go .
I don't know if Sumlin is all that or just a bag of chips or not. I have seen, however, two years of Loeffler's offense. I have defended Loeffler against many criticisms on this board before, but we still haven't seen the results I think we could see, and Sumlin might look like the more attractive leadership candidate for an up-and-coming coach
James Gayle should be the new coach.
You dun messed up A-A-Ron! But seriously I like the guy, hopefully he'll be happy wherever he goes. Now, Mr. Babcock has a chance to show us how badass he is and find a damn good replacement. No need to "turndown" on this hire.
I guess those flight trackers were right, but Moorehead instead of foster.
Sad times.
Does anyone else feel like Li'l Sneezer from the ACME Bowl episode of Tiny Toons?
Obviously the biggest loss here is the plethora of Vince Vaughn jokes still to be had.
Bigger than Choppin' Wood?
Good news - our last two coaches who departed were good enough to get hired away by SEC schools. Bad news - it occurred after their 1st and 2nd seasons on the staff.
Working for a guy like Sumlin who is a rising star has to bode well for Aaron's career.
I am not sure what he made in the NFL, but the fact that he cashed checks from the league means he may not be as focused on the money as has been speculated.
He does have young kids, so getting to a place where there is more perceived continuity is another factor. Besides Beamer, he would have to worry about whether a potential OC change after next year would result in a new offensive staff being hired.
Again, we are all just guessing at this point, but it does seem like the man made a reasonable choice for his career and his family. I wish him the best.
It's all part of the master plan. AMO goes to A&M to learn offensive football. Frank eventually retires and the new HC brings AMO back as the OC to pair with Bud's D. Unicorns and rainbows decend from up high delivering us our championship trophy.
Either that or he left to build his resume as position coaches do. Look at Shane's resume prior to coming here; its what you do.
So let me get this straight, we know we found good coaches if they leave in 2 years... So just find find a young guy thats a great recruiter and fly him over. If they can why can't we since paying the man what he deserves is out of the question.
Excuse me if I am not running to the top of the highest building to take a flying leap as all is lost; but in the immortal words of Yogi Berra, "It's deja vu all over again!". Wasn't it just last year that everyone was celebrating the Fab Four OLine recruits that Grimes had convinced to come to Tech when tOSU finally ponied up a ship offer and the best of the bunch decommitted? Oh, and Grimes gave everyone an "Adios" as he headed out the door to LSu. He was our premier recruiter and best position coach who was turning the OLine back into a unit that could execute blocks after all the years of aimless wandering under the direction of Newsome. We could never hope to get an equivalent replacement since we could never afford to pay what big boy schools paid....
Sorry, but with the flipping of Clark FROM utk and improved line play we have gotten from Searls group, I have every confidence that CFB and SL will find a better than adequate replacement. Is it the ideal situation? Hell no. I really think AMo is a special coach with a bright future, but he is expanding his network and getting a broader base of experience. Good for him and I wish him well. Timing might not have been perfect and I'm sure his departure will be "sold" by the completion as coaches jumping ship, but I have confidence that the good ship Hokie Nation will weather this squall too. There's plenty of time to bemoan this loss. Let's just wait to make sure it is a loss before we get to enthusiastic about it.
Sorry about the SC confusion (edited to SL now). I'd like to say it was fat fingers but then the C and the L would have to be close together on the keyboard..... chalk it up to..... "he's on a roll!!!...." hey at least I know the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor. (One day I gotta learn how to embed those cool animations into my posts.)
SC?
I'm racking my brain...who the heck is SC?
He must mean SL
Hmm.. who is SL?
Edit: Loeffler. I'm dumb.
yeah that makes sense...I got stuck on SportsCenter
I guess he was mixing SL and OC?
SC... Santa Claus.. Scott Calvin??
edit
Looking at this from a biz viewpoint; if sales are slow (recruiting) then production (SL?/CFB/Bud) are affected and laid off. If production fails then sales are affected. Here we lost a great sales rep or so it seems. I don't know if there was a possibility of a counter offer but if there was Whit or Beamer screwed up. They just let his "book" get away. Now I will go ballistic................
How about this? Dump Steinspring (as they should of initially) and moved the money elsewhere! I am not buying that he is recruiting czar as proclaimed. Screw the pay cut he took. He knows he is lucky to get that. Jez I would kill for his guaranteed salary. I swear he has naked pic of someone with a cow!
OK I feel better. We screwed up again because we cannot compete. This was the time and moment to go into the red. Our sales rep contacts just went to stinking Texas. And I mean stinking. Hum..maybe I don't feel better?
That being said, let's see how many decommits we have in a couple of weeks and in the following year.
I think you need to calm down.
An actual biz viewpoint is that employee turnover happens in every business in every industry. You can never not have turnover. The goal then is to be attractive enough to replace employees leaving with new employees that will be as good or better.
Regarding Stinespring, I think you don't know much about him at all to make these comments. I would like his guaranteed salary as well but neither you nor I are a good position coach or recruiter, so that's an incredible poor comparison.
You have no idea if anyone "screwed up". Maybe he was asked if VT can counter and Moorehead decided that it was good for his career to move on. Is that screwing up? or is that a personal decision by an employee who is trying to forge a career in coaching?
So breath and come back to reality.
So literally every single other program in the country is going into the dirt as well, because one of their assistants has left in the past couple years? Someone, please, show me a successful program that hasn't had a coach leave at some point. This is how college football works, especially for young coaches. Stop whining, stop complaining, stop bashing Stiney.
*EDIT* Minnesota's staff has worked a combined 131 years under their head coach. So there's the exception. And if we want to reach the dizzying heights of the mighty Golden Gophers, we better put a stop to staff turnover.
Sources are telling me, we will still have receivers on the team next year and they will catch passes.
In the event that my sources are incorrect, expect a heavy dose of triple option!
I'm a sad man.
Classy exit by Moorehead.
Yep. I hate to see you go, Coach Vince, but you handle it well.
Have they released his new pay?
J.C. Shurburtt is reporting that Zohn Burden is the frontrunner to replace Moorehead.
http://virginiatech.247sports.com/Bolt/Burden-emerges-as-a-frontrunner-3...