Chip Kelly has wasted little time using his newly acquired control of Philadelphia's roster. LeSean McCoy is apparently going to be traded to Buffalo for Kiko Alonso on Tuesday (yes, I know it's not "finalized," according to Drew Rosenhaus, but it cannot possibly be inked before Tuesday, so I'm writing off that tweet).
To me, this makes almost no sense. The Eagles are giving up a top-tier running back that perfectly fits Kelly's system, and ostensibly receiving only Alonso, who missed all last year with an ACL tear. The only way this makes sense to me is if they also get draft picks that put them in position for Mariota, AND they use the newly available cap space to sign a day 1 starter at running back (Demarco Murray and Justin Forsett being the only viable options in my mind).
What does everyone think of this trade?
Comments
For a guy of his supposed stature and salary range, McCoy had a pretty bad year last year, and is starting to show signs of a RB hitting that inevitable wall. With the strength that Sproles showed playing the part that Shady should have been playing all of last year for a fraction of the cost while Shady was on the bench for long stretches, it makes sense. If they wanted to lock McCoy up long term, the Eagles were likely going to be owing him at least $12M this year for a RB who is starting to show signs of an imminent decline. Once that happens in the NFL, the dropoff is almost immediate, so its actually pretty smart to cut ties and sell high while you can.
Definitely a stunner of a trade, but one that could definitely work out. Alonso might have had an ACL injury last year, but he's a beast of a player and will likely be the centerpiece of that defense for a very long time to come. There's shades of Luke Kuechly in his game, and the Eagles just got him still in his rookie contract for the price of a RB showing the initial signs of declining value. Oh, and it frees up even more cap space for them to use this year. They're now $40M under the cap with these recent moves going into an offseason where there will be talent in spades in Free Agency. And don't look now, but Cam Newton still hasn't re-signed in Carolina....
Oh please with that last statement. Cam isn't getting out of Charlotte.
Nothing gets out of Charlotte
I agree with you Cam isn't going anywhere besides Carolina anytime soon. With all his flaws, he is still by far the best QB Carolina has ever had (no disrespect to Delhomme).
Yeah I loved Jake but if the organization somehow let Cam leave town, I'll struggle to support them anymore. Good teams don't let franchise QBs go. It's bad enough that it's taken them this long to get him support on offense.
Good thing we have Gettleman now. I am scared to think where would be offensively if Hurney were still around.
Gettleman still allowed us to go into last season with Byron Bell as our LT. I think everyone could see how that was going to turn out...
Honestly, that is his only big mistake so far. He has drafted well, I'm still amazed at how every draft pick last year contributed this year (other than Gaffney obviously.)
Personally, I don't think he will, either (and I certainly hope not considering I just got myself a blue Newton jersey)... I'm just saying that if Philly chose to go that route, they can out bid the Panthers and still have room to bolster up the rest of the team.
I think Philly's going to make a run at Maxwell and possibly even Revis. That secondary should be their first concern.
Them as well. I'm actually reading they're now $50M under the cap after the moves they made last night (contrary to the $40M I said last night). They have boat loads of room to go out and sign pretty much whoever they want.
I agree on most points, but just to play devil's advocate, the drop off isn't always so cut and dry. Look at Arian Foster, who looked to be on the way out with injuries not too long ago and this year was once again among the very best in the league.
Still, seems like a bad move for the Bills, the NFL is built around keeping under the cap and getting great players on rookie contracts. This seems counter to how every good team in the league operates.
I'm awfully surprised. With his moves he was great in that "Oregon" offense they ran in Philly. He wasn't as great as expected this past year but was still pretty good and opened things up for the passing game as well as Sproles. I have to believe if Foles doesn't get hurt they make the playoffs. Plus a lot of fans liked him
I see the reasoning but if I were an Eagles fan I think I'd be skeptical.
The eagles haven't had a good linebacker in forever, this is a chance. I think Chip Kelly is gonna pull a lot of Shanahanigans in the pros. With his system, a whole lot of running backs can be successful. He just needs to get a quarterback he likes.
Liiiiiiike the one he might be able to get with Washington's 5th overall pick! Please! Give us draft picks!
I can only imagine what a 15 spot jump would cost. Not going to happen, but multiple first and second rounders would be in play. I really hope Mariotta falls to us because we could come away with a big haul.
All I know is that I picked McCoy in the 1st round of last year's Fantasy draft and he was a big disappointment. Kicked myself all season for not taking Beast Mode.
I made the same mistake and let Matt Forte go. Demarco Murray went in the third because no one wanted to risk him getting injured. We drafted the day after Leveon Bell got busted for pot. We all thought he'd be suspended, and he dropped all the way to the 8th round. Fantasy football is a fickle bitch
Better than Adrian Peterson (my dynasty keeper from 2013 season).
McCoy probably has 2 good years left period and makes a high salary. He was probably going to get cut anyway for cap space so might as well make a trade.
Chip Kelly is trying to turn Philly into the Oregon of the NFL, I believe this will be his 9th player hes coached in college on the roster. In case he hasnt noticed, Oregon has never won anything of note.
Don't have to win anything of note to produce NFL talent. See: LOLUVA
Yea but there's a difference in NFL talent and winning NFL talent, even the Browns have NFL talent. Oregon has the speed, but no size at all.
And potentially only 2 of those Oregon guys will be starters anyway. Alonso and Josh Huff. Its not quite as if he is infiltrating the team with them and forcing them into roles beyond their ability.
The school he is from shouldn't really matter. Kiko when healthy showed he can be a pretty damn good football player. Duck or not really is irrelevant. Maybe it put him on Chip's radar a little bit more, but even still
This could potentially be the beginning of the end for Kelly in the NFL. He already gave up Jackson and now McCoy, if he throws the house to get Mariota and he flops like RG3 then Kelly'll be on a one way ticket to making $8M a year to coach in college, so I guess he really does have nothing to lose in this move...
My dream is that the timing coincides with Frank's retirement and Whit brings Chip to VT
That would be awesome.
Running backs always have been and always will be the most overrated position in football.
Kiko Alonso was probably the best linebacker of his class, and if he returns to form the Eagles will get more production out of the rest of his career than they'd get out of the rest of Mccoy's. Factor in the salary cap savings and the ease with which teams can find productive RB's (especially for a system like Kelly's which makes the RB's job even easier than most) and it seems to me like a very savvy allocation of resources.
On top of all that, if Kelly still wanted another top flight rb, this is one of the strongest years to draft one
A straight trade was surprising to me. It sure looks lopsided so I hope there are some picks included. I'll be curious if they go after a big timer like Suh or instead spread the wealth for lots of good players. DeMarco Murray would be interesting but it seems like last year was his only healthy season, and he's going to require a big salary, same as Shady would have. Maybe they go after CJ Spiller to have two quick backs.
As an Eagle fan, I hope they get Worilds and all the Hokies.
I'm hearing they're targeting Shane Vereen in Free Agency. Also wouldn't be surprised if they're targeting Duke Johnson in the draft.
Vereen would be on my Carolina wish list. Actually, both of those players would be.
despite his MIA ties, Duke Johnson would do well I think. I get Shane Vereen, but meh. I need to look at some mock drafts and FA boards to see what's out there. Offseason is intriguing this year, for sure.
ETA: Melvin Gordon would be a nice pickup. I suppose there's an issue with taking a RB in middle first round, but he runs fast and strong and has big play ability that would keep defenses focused on him.
It's really hard for me to read Gordon. He looks good obviously, but he's got acres to run due to the line they have up there. Really hard for me to tell if he's actually as good as he seems.
I think he's a great back. The Mrs. is from Wisconsin so I watched a few of their games. He was able to get huge runs week after week against any competition. Defenses knew that WISC didn't have any passing game and still got torched. He has the ability to take a good gain and turn it into a long TD, and he consistently did it for the past several years.
Here's something I found on CBS Sports
I'll be surprised if Duke is not a very good NFL player. But, you never know with the NFL.
Got rid of a overpriced RB on the decline and picked up a solid defender that has potential when healthy. Also cleared over 25 million in Cap space over the next 3 seasons. Seems like a pretty solid move to me on Kelly's part.
This is about $$$$$. Plain and simple.
However, without knowing the details, it does seem like the Eagles could have gotten a draft pick or two thrown in for good measure.
Pros: Cleared a lot of Cap room and picked up the rookie defender of the year for 2013.
Cons: Cleared off a 26 RB coming off the two best years of his career. How the LB recovered from ACL could also really affect this trade.
Buffalo got the best of this deal. McCoy is going to be what Rex Ryan needs to try and get something going in Buffalo.
Also interesting is that Kelly has indicated that as long as he keeps a good line and QB he thinks all of the other skill players are interchangeable.
The fact that he is 26 actually makes this the perfect timing for the Eagles to make the move...
Inside Slant: Running back cliff after age 27
Also... McCoy rushed for 6k yards over the previous 5 seasons. Since 1970, on average, RBs who have done that have gone to rush for ~3k yards over the next 5 seasons.
All the numbers point to this being a very savvy move for the Eagles. The Bills might get 1 more productive year out of McCoy before he's on the sharp decline. The Eagles will now have 3 salary controlled rookie wage years out of Alonso going forward. That alone makes this a great deal for them.
This fits with Chip Kelly's system in my book, and a great move for Philly.
Kelly's offense has a flexible running system that relies on up-tempo and speed. He can find undervalued (aka, fast but not big) players for a discount, so why not trade away high-priced talent to free up cap space?
Last year his offensive system was put to the test with the Nick Foles injury. Having "Butt-fumble" leading Philly to the playoffs was proof that the system works, and now there seems to be full management buy-in. The wise follow-up move for the Philly management would be to spend big bucks to fix the defense.
Dollars-to-donuts this move was done to make a run at Ndamukong Suh, the second best D-lineman in the league (behind JJ Wattt) and the best free-agent on the market in the last 20 YEARS (according to this article from nfl.com)
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000475834/article/ndamukong-suhs-si...
Yeah, it seems his philosophy is probably going to be buy the best line you can get, find a good qb, and rotate rookies or low cost skill players on defense. That will leave a lot of money to buy a dang good defense.
As a Birds fan, I love the move. I think once people get over the initial shock of seeing one of your superstars so to speak traded, and really critically examine the deal, it makes a lot of sense. I would have liked to see maybe a pick or two in there from Buffalo, but all in all I think the value is good.
Alum has done a great job of highlighting the decline in production of RBs at a certain point. Couple that with a $10-12mil price tag, and it becomes even more reasonable of a move. There is a reason that the Vikings don't want to pay AP $13M or whatever they owe him, and the Cowboys havn't locked up last years leading rusher for a similar type deal to what Shady had.
The Eagles get a MLB who is young, has great potential, under a team friendly rookie deal, and realisitically perhaps better than any MLB prospect in this year's draft. Coupled with Kendricks, they could really have a very very good, young MLB corp for years, which is worth a lot more than an RB making a lot on the wrong side of 26 (at least how the NFL values it). Certainly you have to make quite a few assumptions, but if Kiki comes out resembling his rookie year, your talking about paying a super valuable defensive piece next to nothing for his actual value for at least 3 years, and MLB is a much easier position to keep your own guys into the future without breaking your cap.
With the other moves they have made letting go of some aging guys or big contracts without significant cap hits, they have more than enough dough to address the most glaring weakness of the team last year, the secondary. I would be very surprised if you don't see 2 out of Maxwell, McCourty, or hell even Revis lining up in green next year. There is some good talent available in FA this offseason. Their D-line is fine (and young too). If the moves work out it could be a very quick turn around to what could be a very good defense.
As for RBs, this might be the deepest talent pool in years at that position in the draft. Or perhaps sign CJ Spiller for a lot less than they owed Shady. Is there anyone out there that thinks Spiller couldn't be a successful cog in Chips system? And we already know Chip believes that his system is more important than the individual players. Whether he is right or wrong is TBD, but I think we are about to see him give it his best shot.
I mean, they really could go after FA hard and really set up a dominant defense for years to come. Both Suh and Hardy will be out there for the taking, guys like Maxwell and Revis will be there as well. With Alonso and Kendricks plugging the holes in LB, get one (or both) of Suh and Hardy to help out that DL, and then bring in Maxwell and/or Revis, and suddenly thats a very scary defense to have to face week in and week out. Then, all you're looking at is a need to re-sign Maclin, and then just draft BPA in April and you've got yourself a contender.
Suh is interesting, because I think right now the Eagles really like their starting 3 down lineman. Not saying I wouldn't take Suh in a heartbeat, but its an interesting case. The 3-4 shouldn't matter because you take a generational talent like Suh anywhere you can get him.
I think if somehow the season opened and there was a Suh, Revis (or Maxwell), and McCourty on the backs of Eagles jerseys along with the players they already have, Eagles' fans heads would explode.
Yes. Of course BGN is going nuts about a possible Mariota trade right now too
At this point, its clear that almost anything can happen.
I keep seeing articles that Chip may be on the way out if these bold moves don't pan out. I wonder if anyone has thought that maybe Chip is making these bold moves because his owner (who has already clearly sided with doing whatever it takes to keep Chip happy), has already told him "Hey Chip, I want you to go out and do what you think its going to take to win. And your job is safe no matter what."
Because Eagles fans will bitch and moan if they don't work out, but know what else they will do? Keep buying tickets and going to games and buying merchandise and paying for parking and all of those things that owners ultimately care about. I loved the Eagles when Braman and Kotite were running the show. You think I'm gonna stop just because Chip went big?
The way I am comparing it right now... Chip just did the one thing that Ruben Amaro didn't have the guts to do in 2010. Whereas Rube would have signed Shady to a 5 year extension paying him the highest price a RB is making in the game like he did with Ryan Howard, Chip saw the opportunity to sell high, and capitalize on his value now right before all the analytics say he's about to see his production drop off. Yes, people will bitch and moan (and Twitter last night was a case study in it) but in the end, the Eagles are in a better spot long-term for it.
That being said, all of this will come undone if they sell the farm for the rights to draft Mariota.
By loading up the cap space to get some FA flexibility, I feel like a trade for Mariota is a somewhat likely scenario. Giving up a 1st rounder for a few years isn't terrible if you put together a team good enough to make that pick 28 or above for a couple consecutive seasons.
I don't see the need. Honestly, I really like Foles as the starter. Give them a defense to compliment that offense, and he is good enough to lead that franchise to a lot of wins. I would much prefer to use all those draft picks to build a team of high quality players around a strong foundation that will be built this offseason, than to sell them all off and bet the future on a QB when the team already has one that has shown he can win.
Hell no. I have no plans of stopping either. I would love to actually make it to a game at the Linc one season.
Eagles fan here, and while I'm gonna miss Shadynasty, he is at or near the top of the RB hill. It's a risk, but a calculated one. If Kiko Alonso stays healthy, he will be a much needed complement to Kendricks at ILB (plus we now have approximately all the cap space in the world to go out and get somebody like Byron Maxwell to begin to help shore up our worst-ranked pass defense). We also let go of Cary Williams and Trent Cole yesterday. One final note, there's about a week before this trade can officially be made, so there is still a chance it could fall through. McCoy, as you might imagine, does not want to go to Buffalo.
Schefter made a great point this morning on the Fanatic though. Shady's desire to go play in Buffalo means nothing. Not like he has a no-trade clause. Schefter made it clear, he can go to Buffalo and play or go to Buffalo and sit and miss his checks each week. It really is that simple. I don't see him missing his checks
Pending failing a physical Shady really can not do anything to stop this.
As I said above, Alonso reminds me a lot of Luke Kuechly. And I don't worry at all with the whole ACL injury thing. As long as they allow him the time to rest and heal up, he'll be able to perform at a high level going forward. Thomas Davis is a walking example of how you can recover from that injury (even multiple times to the same knee) and still be a very high motor player. My guess is that it will not be long at all before this deal looks like a complete steal for the Birds.
I really do think the Eagles are primed to go into next year with a beastly defense. They have the positioning right now to really overhaul that defense and come out with something STRONG next year and in the future. Suh or Hardy would be ideal gets for them. Build that team like the Panthers overhauled the defense. You now have Alonso to anchor the middle of the field, then strengthen the line. Suh or Hardy does that in spades. Your best pass defense comes from a good pass rush. If you don't let the QBs get comfy, your CBs jobs will be so much easier (which is why Carolina has been able to have good defenses with weak secondaries). If you then are able to bring in Revis or Maxwell on top of those other additions, then you're looking at a Super Bowl contending quality kind of D. It would be an expensive offseason, but the Eagles have $50M in cap room right now. They have the space to get all these guys, and address the offense, and sign their draft picks... Crazy.
I read this morning that were the Eagles to simply keep all of their draft picks (i.e. not trade for Mariota), after signing all of them they would STILL have at least $40million. And if they cut Demeco Ryans, which seems likely after his 2nd Achilles injury and just trading for a guy that plays his position, it adds another $6.9 to their cap space.
Things are about to get freaky in the City of Brotherly Love come next Tuesday methinks.
My only concern is that it appears there might be some issues in the contract negotiations with Maclin. He's one of the guys I really hope they are able to hold onto, because he has hands of glue. And I much prefer a 1-2 of Maclin-Matthews than Matthews-Cooper.
If we go crazy spending cash, why not a starting 3 wide Maclin - Matthews - Cobb in the slot
The only thing I want them to do now that hasn't yet been done is to resign Maclin. After that, go for Mariota with both barrels, I won't mind. It's gonna be a hell of a ride.
Turkey leg for Shadynasty
All said and done. The deal looks okay for the eagles, great for the bills. But I will lose a lot of respect for Kelly if he does trade up for Mariota. He has a lot bigger needs than a qb right now. Both Sanchez and Kolb are functioning well in his system.
He could pick up Duke Johnson or Melvin Gordon to replace McCoy and have them at a rookie rate for most of their career.
Sanchez was a contained disaster all of last year. For the most part, he did everything he could to keep them from succeeding towards the end of the season. And Kolb hasn't been a part of the Eagles in a few years. You're thinking of Foles, who I personally think is one of the more underrated and underappreciated QBs in the league.
You can tell I don't watch the Eagles, I thought I heard he put up decent numbers for them in the system and got them to the playoffs after Foles got hurt.
Thanks for the correction.
People really started to pile on the Sanchize hype train after that Dallas game, but that was really more a product of Dallas being really bad on that day, and the defense having to sell out to stop Shady, who went off. After that, he played some downright awful football, and the last couple games, with the season on the line, he completely unraveled. Don't get me wrong, he was decent for Sanchez standards, but he was still pretty bad overall. He's a serviceable backup, and that's it.
I'm sorry if any of you fine folks are Philly fans, but being a Skins fan I've found most Eagles' fans are absolutely ridiculous. All of them torched us for the move when we traded up for RG3-13, yet they're seemingly doing the exact same thing with a less-talented Mariota (as a pro prospect coming out of college). As SVP said yesterday on SVP & Russillo, just because you beat Washington State with this system does not mean it translates to the next level. I remember two years ago going into the season opener against PHI, all we heard about was this sick new offensive strategy. Fact of the matter is you have to have a great o-line and defense to win in the NFL, of which Philly has neither. I get giving up McCoy because I think his best days are probably behind him, but this new prolific system Chip Kelly is trying to run seems far-fetched to me. I'll be interested to see if they let Maclin go too. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone too.
The Eagles have a very strong OLine, one of the better ones in the league. The problem last year was that they had a Hokies-esque slew of injuries along the OL last year that really prevented it from coming together. Few, if any, NFL teams are capable of handling the kind of OL injuries that the Eagles did last year. At one point, all 5 starters were out, I believe.
So great that Foles was out for over half the season...
Once again... the OL was hurt all season long. Those injuries played a part in the play that knocked him out. Amazing how often a QB gets hurt when you're playing backup OL vs starting DL for long stretches due to injury.
I'm not sure I understand your comments.
In 2013 (the year you referenced with the opening game against Washington where that "gimmick" system blasted the Skins), McCoy led the league in rushing in large part because the Eagles had literally the best Offensive line in football. I'm not saying that as an Eagles fan. The same 5 games played all 17 games in 2013.
Jump ahead to last year, where as referenced, the Eagles had significant injuries to the exact same line as the 2013 season. Their All-Pro center was out 6 weeks. Their starting right tackle missed the first 4 games of the year due to suspension. Their Pro Bowl RG Mathis was hurt in week 1 and missed until November. Their 6th man Allen Barbre was hurt in week 1. They had only 1 week 1 starter that started every game last season, as opposed to 5 from the year before.
With all due respect, I'm not sure if you know what you are talking about.
The Redskins didn't get blasted as you said, I believe they lost by a touchdown. And while I stand corrected that their offensive line is in fact good when healthy, you're not going to convince me that defense is worth anything. Maybe adding Alonso makes a huge difference, but I doubt it. The point is, if I were an Eagles fan I think I would be pretty upset with some of the moves Kelly is making.
Notice how nobody is arguing the fact the Eagles defense stinks. Notice how everyone in this thread is saying why they like the trade because it cements them a very necessary piece to a defense that desperately needs it. They're doing what it takes to rebuild the defense you are criticizing them for having, and at the same time mocking them for the moves themselves. It makes absolutely no sense.
Lady Gaga joins Rex at the Bill...lol
Let's Go G-men!
what the hell is a Kiko Alonso?
Finished 3rd in the NFL in tackles in his rookie season.
Never heard of him, but its probably a good idea. Never get too invested in a running back in the NFL. Even a good one.
A lot of chatter on BleedingGreen Nation that the Eagles have Worilds as a FA target to fill the 3-4 OLB spot opposite Barwin. Flowers is a FA too.
Bring me all the Hokies!
You guys can have Flowers, as long as you let Byron Maxwell go to Atlanta... We need a corner opposite Desmond Trufant in Dan Quinn's defense that can reliably cover well in man coverage.
You can have DeCoud back
Nope, he's horrible. The only good thing about him is his shoe game lol. He can't cover worth a crap, but he had one Pro Bowl worthy year where he was decent, but our defense was also healthy at the time.
Its weird to think about Shady being gone from the eagles. I guess from now on its always sunny in Philadelphia
Oddly enough, PFF graded the Eagles offensive line as the best run blocking offensive line in 2014 as well, even with the injuries. Guessing a big part of that is the contributions from Sproles and Chris Polk to some extent.
The point being, all signs point to Shady having already reached the peak statistical results in terms of his best season, the Eagles O Line being pretty good, and their defense getting better (and potentially a lot better come Tuesday)