Good article, Andy. I agree that Brewer has really firmed up the starting position.
I was a little more impressed w/ Ford that I expected for the spring game.
He looked reasonably poised for his experience. He delivered some nice passes, and had I think what should have been a very nice TD if Caleb had run the route Ford was expecting. And it looked like he'd put on some good bulk to be able to absorb some punishment.
Not by any means ready to start, but I was happy with his progress.
Motley looked good as well, and has obviously made strides in his game. I think he'll see some quality snaps this year that aren't just clean-up duty. Those snaps will put him in the driver's seat for 2016.
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I hope so. And considering hes going to have some experienced talent (Cam, Ford, Bucky, Shai, Teller) to help ease him his first year, I think he'll do just fine as a redshirt frosh
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now, yes, but i dont think they are super comparable. Motley essentially ran a triple option style offense in high school, while Lawson ran more of a spread/proish style. Lawson coming in will be head and shoulders over where Motley was as a freshman. Id be shocked if Lawson isnt named the starter coming out of spring next year.
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I agree Lawson will have an easier transition to the college level, but to beat out a guy who has had four years in the system is a huge task. Not saying it won't happen. I WANT it to happen, because if it does that means Lawson is that damn good. I'll just be very pleasantly surprised if it does.
Right now, I think it's more likely that Lawson backs up Motley in '16 and is the starter the rest of his career.
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I'm speaking of Motley at this stage, compared to Leal even at his best. Not the Motley who was sidelined for a long spell due to a back injury.
If you don't agree, that's fine, but let's not ignore the specifics of the situation and pretend they didn't have anything to do with Motley's ability to battle for the starting spot last year.
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People were clamoring for Leal to get starting reps over Logan as well. All I'm saying is, if Motley was "significantly" better, he would have been able to do more than run a few read option plays and then come out late into the season
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If you can't look at Motley's productivity in spot duty last year, and this spring, and not see that it is vastly better than Leal at his best, then I just don't know what to say.
You seem to be arguing something different than what I said. Not sure how you got to "if this backup was better than another backup, he should have taken a lot more game-reps from the starter".
You also seem to mistake the plays he was in on last year, which BTW, were significantly more game-reps than Leal ever saw at the same point in his college career, as the sum of his current ability.
The ceiling on Leal was not terribly high. The ceiling on Motley is far far higher, and if he continues to develop like he did this spring, he may surprise a lot of people when competing for the starting spot next spring.
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I guess we'll have to disagree. I've seen nothing from Motley that shows he can do more than run. Motley is not "vastly better". Leal had already proven he could pass at at least a check down level when he was a redshirt freshman. You're basing Motley off of 3 career in game attempted passes, and not much to show outside of it. I know he was behind in the depth chart till Leal left, but he was still a redshirt sophomore. I think theres a lot of assumption on where Motley might be, not where he is and based on our track record of developing QBs, I'm going to take the talent over the experience.
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based on our track record of developing QBs, I'm going to take the talent over the experience
We've had our current QB coach for two seasons, and this will be the first year with a returning starter at the position assuming Brewer wins the job. So it's kind of hard for me to take any mention of our track record developing QBs seriously. If O'Cain was still here, you'd have a valid point. With Lefty, not so much.
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1. Leal also never learned how to recognize a cover 2.
2. Motley has looked much improved this spring in practices and scrimmages. Not quite on Brewer's level, but definitely solid.
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I think they said he threw 3 and brewcrew 2 all of spring. not just scrimmages but ALL of spring. that's pretty good considering it seemed like there was a lot of pressure and more emphasis put on throwing the ball around this spring to really get a good look at the QBs progressions.
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He did have one more that should've been a pick-6, but still. Even 4 picks all spring isn't bad. Both guys have been outstanding at protecting the football this spring - getting the ball out on time, being accurate, knowing where to miss, throwing it away, etc. Very encouraging. The difference has been in Brewer's comfort in the pocket, decisiveness and accuracy along with an improved deep ball. Spring went about as well as could be reasonably expected for the QB position this spring.
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Word is that Lefty might not even redshirt him, just get him a few plays here and there in Motley's package. Thinks he's a leave early talent anyways, so why waste a year?
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Take a breath there, champ. I distinctly remembering many people saying Tyrod would be a "leave early" too, so why waste a year?
Regardless, how many QBs leave early? Maybe 3 or 4 in a class? And usually half of them are guys from Wyoming or somewhere that have no business going early . Lawson got some skills, but the likelihood of him leaving early is quite low. It seems to me that wasting a few plays next year with him to do things that aren't substantially different from what Motley can bring is almost certainly that...wasting a few plays.
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Plus I think QB is one of those positions where it doesn't hurt to stay your entire eligibility. Even if your draft stock is high one year as long as you preform up to expectations there shouldn't be too much of a change, save how many QBs and who are going in a year.
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I'm not saying I agree with it. The only 2 QBs in the past few years I've really thought didn't have much more to gain from their current situation were Luck and Mariota. That said, sometimes a kid's good enough. Besides, putting a QB in the league to go along with his past success would do a heck of a lot for Loeffler, given that he almost certainly will be back on the job market once Beamer retires.
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The majority of QBs who have left early have not done well. Very few leave early and even fewer should. It's possible, but very unlikely, that Lawson will leave early and even less likely he should leave early.
The point is that while it may makes sense to "gameplan" for some players with the expectation of them possibly leaving early (ex: Kendall Fuller), I don't think it makes sense to do so for a QB.
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Winston fails to properly identify defenders when receivers are covered both underneath and over the top. Winston either misses the presence of an underneath linebacker, or fails to see the over-the-top safety ready to break down on the ball.
That's a pretty big no-no when it comes to succeeding in the NFL, and another year of college football would have helped him improve in that area. Now, whether he could keep his nose clean long enough to actually be eligible next season... yeah, heading to the NFL now was probably the right choice.
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NFL qb coaches are usually regarded higher than college qb coaches. He may take his lumps in the NFL, but he's going to get better mechanics coaching by going pro than staying at FSU.
The eligibility issue and potential to slip in the draft were too high for him.
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I'm not looking at the source, I'm looking at the numbers. 18 picks and (as anyone who watched him play this year would attest), a decent number of them were because he just flat-out misread coverage. That doesn't fly in the NFL. He was picked #1 because he also has all the physical talent in the world and a knack for making great plays. Still, I don't see him as a great NFL QB simply because for every 7 great decisions he makes, he makes 3 really, really bad decisions. And that's just on the field. He might not be as lazy as, say, JaMarcus Russel, but it wouldn't shock me in the least if he had a similar career.
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Not to mention if the NFL does implement losing picks for off season issues that #1 pick just got a lot chancier. Not to mention the civil suit against Jameis has already been filed.
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QBs don't leave early because they think they are worried about doing well. they all have the confidence in themselves that they will do well. they leave early because they are a top 5 pick. and that is based on 2 things the 1st being measurable and arm strength and 2nd being on one season of decent production. Logan is a prime example. in NO way was he NFL ready after his sophomore season but had he left he was a 1st round pick. he came back his production dipped and so did his draft stock dramatically. but he would have been a 1st round pick based on potential alone. that's all Dwayne or any other QB leaving early needs to hear is that they will be a 1st round pick because they have the arm/size/etc to entice teams into taking them regardless or success/failure rate. not many QBs drafted in the 1st round I would say are still on the same team at the end of there rookie contract.
sorry should have read more comments before commenting. already been covered right below. my bad
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I don't know about that. I think Logan's accuracy and mechanics would have been picked apart in individual workouts. Yes there was some buzz about being a possible first round pick but it was really moot because he didn't declare and undergo the draft and combine and film scrutiny.
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That's not true. Hundley would have gone first round last year. LT was a top 5 pick at one point, at least according to Kiper, probably would have gone first or second round at least. I'm sure there are dozens of other examples to choose from.
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We're not just talking about draft position here, we're talking about ability to succeed long-term in the NFL. That typically goes beyond athletic ability and into decision-making and understanding of how defenses work and can be exploited. That only comes with experience. Typically, the guys who succeed in the NFL are the guys who spent a bunch of time learning the nuances of the position in college. And then you have guys like Manziel who leave 2 years early and make a bunch of money because of their athleticism but still can't read a defense.
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Oh I agree, in terms of being the best player possible, staying in school is usually the better idea (at least intuitively, would be a very interesting research topic), but I never got the sense we were talking about career, this thread has been specifically about leaving early and getting the best possible draft grade, in which case it's kind of a crapshoot. My point was only that given that the goal is to be drafted as high as possible (both for financial reasons, and because it's your best chance at being given a real opportunity to play), you'll want to leave when your stock is highest, whenever that is.
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Yeah, I'd buy that. Looking at Winston, there's no question he needs another year or 2 to learn how to be a quarterback, but he's got a high draft grade now and every minute he spends not in the NFL is another minute he can do something stupid to lose a bunch of money. I'm sure it'd benefit him long-term to stay and develop for another year, but in terms of money he can make with that first contract, he's got nowhere to go but down.
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This isn't my opinion. Chris Coleman is a heck of a lot more connected to the coaching staff than I am. If he says Lefty is considering, he's considering it. If he thinks Lawson has a good shot at being the guy in 2016, Lawson will likely see the field. If you've paid attention (collective "you" there, by the way), you may notice this is a pretty drastic departure from my previously-held position that Lawson will redshirt barring injuries. I don't think he'll pick up enough of the offense to take the starting job as a freshman, but, just like with Brewer, very well may be good to go after a full season and offseason with the offense.
Loeffler is extremely high on this kid. Says he might be the most talented QB he's ever recruited. With the way the offense looks like it's coming together and Loeffler's reputation as a QB coach, there's very little to indicate Lawson won't be good enough to go pro a year early if he so desires.
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I'm not debating the point-I am excited if those closer to the program think Lawson could be 'the guy.'
I think it all comes down to who's ready and gives us the best chance to win.
We've endured some head scratchers as fans going back to the promise of a Michael Vick redshirt and the Glennon/Tyrod mess to Logan is a QB/TE/by far the best that we have.
Loeffler seems focused on getting a handful of talented guys and letting them compete which is a big change from the previous system.
If Lawson can come in and beat out what we have, then I'm excited for the future.
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Frankly, this sounds like a lot of offseason, off the record coach smoke blowing to me...
And there is absolutely zero indication that Lawson will be good enough to leave early. Zero. That's not to say he doesn't have skills, but he's not exactly a 5*, top 10 recruit (although I will agree he's a bit underrated by the services). In fact, if VT were to sign the QB's on their current radar, I think Lawson would have his hands full trying to win the starting job in 2017 and 2018, let alone go pro early.
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That may be, and you're right...we won't know until Lawson is on campus.
BUT....I'm excited that we now have multiple capable candidates in our stable with another coming and Loeffler is still out looking for more versus a capable 1st team guy and another nice kid or two that make me squeamish to think of injuries.
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I'm not saying he should or shouldn't be redshirted since I won't get to see him in camp. My question is will his practice reps take a hit if he is announced as a redshirt before the season. You would think they would try and give the 3rd string reps to the true 3rd string QB (Ford) if they know Lawson isn't going to play to keep Ford ready in case of a debacle like UVA last year. By keeping the option of him playing, he may get more practice reps which would be what he needs for development.
I do realize if we get to our 3rd string QB in a game, we likely will have bigger issues than if it is Ford or Lawson but you have to think which one of them gives us the best chance to still win. Based on what Lefty has said before, I do think Lawson redshirts. He has pretty much said before that for a QB to be successful, they have to have a complete grasp of his offense and we saw what happened last year with Brewer when we didn't have one. Lawson may very well be able to jump on board and learn the offense but will he be able to command it without thinking but instead reacting? The doubt I have there is why I think he will get redshirted in the end. Again, that isn't me saying he should be redshirted, its just what I think will end up happening.
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If you have a QB that is able to leave early....especially without playing a down yet in college that says something about hit ability or at least his potential. We'll see how it goes I suspect, but giving him a redshirt year and a couple of snaps here and there in a year to get him "experience" in hopes that he doesn't leave early doesn't really seem like a great idea I suppose. If he comes in and is clearly the number 2 guy then ok. But if not, I don't think wasting his redshirt year to play him in meaningless snaps seems like just wasting a year. He may not leave early, he may not be ready to leave early when the time comes. Unless they give him a meaningful number of snaps this year I think it would be a waste to burn a redshirt playing a couple snaps here and there.
I think I explained what I wanted to say......may have said it a bunch of times over and over....ha ha.
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Considering Brewer was the only one to go 1-0 against * last year I would say he is starting labor day barring any injuries. Beyond that who knows what Beamer and Co. will do as they have been pretty unpredictable the last few years...
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I'm tempering my expectations. IF the offensive line can hold up, Brewer should be the guy. IF the line turns out to be pedestrian, by week 4 the usual suspects will be clamoring for Motley.
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I'm cautiously optimistic at this point. The offensive line seems to be taking a huge step forward, and the 1s consistently moved the ball well in the spring game. If they can stay healthy and establish a little depth, we should be able to keep Brewer upright and get the running game going again, which will take a ton of pressure off of the passing game and help eliminate turnovers. Running the ball effectively and keeping Brewer healthy are absolutely critical.
If Lefty thinks Lawson is "the guy," I'm all for him having a package and getting snaps for experience. I think we will see a sizeable improvement from the offense this year, and it should be great in 2016.
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Beating Clemson in either of those 2 games? The issues weren't Logan related in those games. Clemson punked our defense, and they smothered our OL. As good as Tyrod was, he wouldn't have been the deciding factor between those 2 games.
The Sugar Bowl? First of all, Danny Coale caught that ball. Secondly, Logan did everything humanly possible to win us that game.
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I mean, it's kinda hard to speculate these specific details, lots of things could have been different. But Tyrod is the best QB I've seen play live and in person in Maroon and Orange, and yes, I'd have taken one less year of Logan for one more year of Tyrod. It's that simple really.
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We lost to Clemson 23-3 and only gave up 300 yards to one of the most explosive offenses in the country because our offense couldn't stay on the field and turned over the ball 3 times.
the ACC CG was much worse but it was 10-10 at half time before we collapsed and two of the TDs scored were results of INTs with long returns (over 100 yards combined between the two) and an additional turnover.
Who knows what could have happened, but tyrod had shown progression through each of his years and was acc poty so I think we would have been a better team with his leadership and talent.
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I could ask you "What would have been the same?" Tyrod would have had so much more command of the playbook, rapport with his receivers, and he would have beenTHE UNDISPUTED leader of the offense, which was lacking in 2011.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, but I think there's a real possibility of at least 11-0 if Tyrod was back for his redshirt senior year. I'm torn on how the post season would have shaken out, but I think they could have won all of their regular season games that year.
Another year of Tyrod and David Wilson in the same backfield would have scared the shit out of the rest of the conference.
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I agree with you, and as for the post season, we would have been on the outside looking in at LSU and a 1 loss Alabama replaying the SEC Championship, or playing LSU once Bama lost. If the former had happened, the SEC bias claims would have been 10x louder.
Could we have beat LSU in 2011? Nope. I don't think so at least, but as they say, that's why you play the game.
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Agreed. Imagining another year of TT, with Logan getting some quality reps and just running through guys that year. It's a beautiful dream.
That said, if we'd had an absolute magical season we likely wouldn't have made the coaching changes that look like they are starting to pay off in a big way.
So all things considered, I'm happy the way things worked out.
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You beat me to it. Having Tyrod would have been nice in '11, but it would have only delayed the realization of how dire the QB situation was for another year. The net effect would probably have been negative, because we would have most likely not brought in Ford and Durkin in their recruiting cycle and might not have landed Brewer's transfer. Our QB situation now might look a lot like it did then. Overall I think we're in a better place than we would have been with a redshirt senior Tyrod in '11.
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I agree with you guys on the future of our QB situation at that point, I was just talking about having Tyrod for another year. But to be honest, we really dont know how the QB recruiting cycle would have gone if the above scenario happened, for better or worse.
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is it me or do we really have no idea how good Durkin/Ford really are? Felt bad for Ford during the spring game he had 0 time and the snaps he got were blown up ASAP. Durkin might not ever see a real snap at QB in game? not to be that guy but TE anyone or H back?
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Reading the tea leaves, this is about where I am as well. I love the idea of having a Tim Tebow back there, but we're going to have so much talent at WR and TE we're mostly going to need a guy who can really sling it and command the offense from the pocket.
Lining up a wing T QB (Motley) or a bulldozer behind the line (Durkin, presumably, since I haven't seen him at all from my barn stall) is almost a waste of Ford, Hodges, and Phillips. Not to say a great receiver can't still be great in an offense with a QB who runs a lot (see Evans, Mike), but I don't think we'll go that route.
So I'm guessing next year (2016) we'll see Ford as the starter with Lawson (playing the Tyrod to his Glennon) and Motley (playing the Leal to his Brewer) as the back up and Durkin moving to TE (Malleck gone), HB (do we even have HBs?), or FB (Wright and Rogers are both Juniors next season, Peoples and Logan Adkins [208 lbs] are the other two).
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Durkin separated his non-throwing shoulder before the spring game and didn't participate. I was impressed with Ford given the line that he was playing behind. He was able to identify the bust in coverage for a long gain at the end of the first half and seemed to move in the pocket (what pocket he had at least) and go through his progressions well enough to my untrained eye. Besides the big gain and the fade that Caleb missed, the Ford throw that stands out to me was when he scrambled to his left and tried to hit Newsome on a short pass that was dropped.
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I can feel attrition at QB coming....You've got Durkin (FR.), Ford(FR.), Motley(JR), and Brewer(SR.) here already, then you've got Lawson coming in the summer (who Loeffler is SUPER high on), plus we're in the hunt for highly-touted QB ?,Haskins....
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I would like to see Durkin at another position. Some type of TE/HB position where he could flex into the backfield at times would be cool. He's also DE sized and has defense in his family (uncle is a DC).
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Agreed. He may very well be a good QB, but he's quickly falling behind in the pecking order. Since he wasn't an early enrollee last year, he was already behind Ford and lost some time to an injury if I remember correctly. I was really hoping he would get a chance to compete this spring, but again he lost time to injury. With Brewer and Motley clearly at the top, Ford the next man up, and an extremely talented Lawson coming in this summer, I worry if he will ever get a chance to make an impact at QB. Excellent size and athleticism, though. He probably could make a great TE/H-Back/Goalline QB. We'll just have to see how it all pans out.
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I know everyone always likes the new shinny toy but lets slow down. Lawson may be all of that and a bag of chips but he's not done anything on a collegiate level yet so lets wait and see before moving him up the depth chart. I think Motley has the best shot of being the starter next year if he is more consistent/high completion rate. If not enter Mr. Ford and if Ford is the starter next year and plays well Mr. Lawson may have to wait his turn. I have not seen enough of Durkin to formulate an opinion but he did come in fairly highly rated so your guess is as good as mine. But I will have to agree having several talented QB's to choose from is a good thing!!
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Minority opinion but with Lawson's HS OC on staff, if he (Lawson) enrolls in June, he may very well not redshirt. Taking Lefty at his word that Motley still has a ways to go to be consistently effective and given Brewer's injury history, I think Lawson will get some experience.
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Am I the only one who thinks Motley is significantly improved? He looks much better going through progressions and reading the D than last year. He has a cannon and obviously is super fast and elusive. If he makes the same steps forward to next year that he took this year from last year, he will start next year, hands down. This year, I think he will get in every fourth series, or to run the read option. I think they will definitely play him, some.
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He missed a long td to I Ford by a matter of inches. He's hit several earlier in the spring -- I think there's good reason to think that with more snaps with the ones, that timing will develop.
Obviously I'm a big fan. I'll be forever grateful to him that he turned down GT for us. But I really think he's got the potential to be a great one for us. Dare I say, a Bryan Randall with a bigger arm and the wheels to take it to the house on any given play.
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As you said, I think they'll use him as a spread option change of pace similar to what they started to do at the end of last year but I think the most effective passer of Motley and Lawson will be the starter in 2016. I don't think that's hands down anyone and as much as QBs get hit these days, we can really use two guys that are ready to play at a fairly high level.
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Can Brewer be challenged? Absolutely. The other guys we have on the roster have plenty of talent on their own, and if Lawson is as good as advertised, he might be one of the all time greats to ever put on the VT...
Will Brewer be challenged? If he keeps playing like he did this spring, no.
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I've been on Brewer's case for awhile but it was great to see his improvement this spring...much better timing and accuracy with the receivers. He isn't going to knock anyone over with the football but he was WAY better. Hope he stays healthy and can keep making good decisions.
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Brewer's play and stats this spring were similar to what he did at TT in games and practice games. I think what we saw this spring is probably more the real Michael Brewer than what we saw at times last fall.
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Everyone was singing Ford's praises last year. "Great find by Lefty", "Elite 11 QB selection", etc. I guess I'm a bit out of the loop, but what is it about Lawson that makes him so much better than Ford?
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What we know about Lawson:
1) Great Athleticism
2) Strong Arm
3) The Hokie Nation has high hopes for him
What we don't know:
1) How high his Football IQ really is?
2) How long it will take to adjust to the speed of college football?
3) How long it will take him to pick up the offense?
4) How he will adjust to being in college and freedoms that come with it?
5) How long it will take him to mature?
I'm hoping he comes in this summer with his hair on fire and blows us all away but I do not want to put unfair expectations on him. He's a teenager and we need to expect him to make teenage mistakes. Plus taking a red shirt year to learn how to be a college QB on and off the field is priceless!!
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I think there's enough evidence for #1 in unknowns to move up to the knowns. Between on-field decisions and off-field study habits (reported), he doesn't seem like a guy who gets by just on athleticism and arm talent.
#2-#5 is why I openly laugh in the face of anyone who's convinced Lawson will outright win the starting job from Brewer. There are just so many unknowns when it comes to a young kid adjusting to college life and college ball. That said, if Lefty sees him as potentially the guy in 2016, there's no better teacher than experience. For that reason, I can see him getting the kid on the field to get his feet wet and really adjust to the speed of the game, while also putting a talented playmaker in the field to help win games.
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I agree that he probably won't win the starting job this year, but I don't see the value in putting him in to gain a little gameday experience at the expense of an entire season. If we burn his redshirt, he'd better be the starter imo. I wouldn't bank on players leaving early, that's by far the exception, not the rule.
I still think it was a mistake to burn Tyrod's redshirt. I think he could've had an even better redshirt senior year.
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Ford: 6'-3" 185; moderate mobility; 35 yd effective passing range; shotgun passing QB in HS; noted for high level of accuracy
Lawson: 6'-5" 210(+); 50 yd effective passing range; dual threat; spread/pro-style pass QB in HS; noted as a pass/run playmaker
I think people saw Lawson light it up in the post season HS all star game and are looking for the next in the line of exciting dual threat QBs that helped put VT on the map.
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Brings up a good point. Stiney was a pretty good OL coach, but his lines were a step down from J.B. Grimes' in my opinion. You're probably right, though, Randall's lines were serviceable at the least.
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Ford may not have the biggest arm or break away speed but neither did Joe Montana. A high football IQ and accuracy will take you a long way!!
I'm hoping next years depth chart will be:
Motley- kid is coming along and has some skills
Ford- maybe getting overlooked for a elite 11 high school QB
Durkin- Not seen enough to make a decision
Lawson- If ready moves up the depth chart but not rushed into action d/t risk of loosing confidence.
Note: I thought it was funny Saturday when S. Glennon said the coaches must really like Lawson to be bringing his high school OC with him.
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People that have seen ford throw even without a live rush (just in skeleton drills) have said he doesn't have the arm to be a QB for us. Ford was NOT an elite 11 QB. He was invited to the camp for a chance to earn that distinction and he was not selected. I've seen nothing from motley to believe he's coming along. I hope he stays healthy and gets some reps this year, but he's basically just put into the game to run. Lawson is the guy in '16 if we want to start getting back to championships within the next few years IMO.
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I stand corrected. But Ford being invited to the camp speaks volumes of his talent. I have not heard anyone say he does not have the arm to play for us? I hope you are right about Lawson but I'm going to wait until he plays against college level talent before naming him the next starting QB.
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definitely agree with waiting to get Lawson on campus before we get too excited. Ford doesn't have the arm and being invited to the camp speaks to the competition of the event he went to in order to qualify. Not sure who all was there but him winning MVP tells me either he had the day of his life or there wasn't much talent at the qb position.
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Ford was the Gatorade Player of the Year for the state of Pennsylvania. Perhaps the issue isn't with the talent that was at whatever camp he was at but rather with the way in which you evaluate talent compared to those who call themselves experts and professionals making a career out of doing so...
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Third string as a redshirt freshman behind a redshirt senior and redshirt junior, respectively, both of whom have game experience and had good springs. I'm not seeing anything particularly damning of Andrew in that scenario.
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Motley hardly has much game experience and as for having a good spring it depends on how you define "good". He made it through healthy which was definitely good, but the spring game itself wasn't a showcase for his throwing. He missed at least two routine TD passes (ford + Knowles) and looked ok running the ball.
As for Ford outside of the 1 pass to newsome there wasn't much to be impressed with. Would need to see him behind an OL that can let him get comfortable I guess, but his arm strength is pretty bad IMO.
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He missed I Ford on a long-ball by, literally, inches. But yes, spring-game wasn't his best showing, and certainly demonstrated he shouldn't be the starter this year, as things stand now. Brewer had a bit of an off day too, in me perspective, but handled the adverse conditions better.
According to all the reports, Motley has had an outstanding spring practice though. His performance in the scrimmages was good to very good.
So yes, if your sample size is the spring game, I can see why you wouldn't be high on Motley. I think if you look at his body of work over the spring, you see a guy making big strides in his understanding of the offense and in his execution of it, and when you couple that with his mobility and demonstrated ability to take it to the house from anywhere on the field (he had what, 2 or 3 40 yard plus runs this spring?), you see a guy that has a great shot of taking the next step and being a great starting QB.
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Missed it by much more than inches and brewer hit the throw on the same pattern with a much tighter window later in the game. The coaches don't seem to have much confidence in his throwing abilities in game situations, or at least didn't last year. Whenever he was in the game it was just to run the ball. Hopefully he is getting much better and is able to provide a spark if brewer is struggling, hurt, etc. As for the potential to be great not so sure though i'm holding out hope that Lawson is the one that is worthy of that type of praise.
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Brewer having a better spring doesn't mean Motley had a bad one. He's still a step behind in the passing game, but he definitely had a good spring. We should feel a LOT better about our QB situation now than we did last year.
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agreed never said he had a bad one, but feel like the distance between the two has widened. Can't comment on the good spring as I just saw the one game and I wouldn't call that one good. He's at least healthy this year, so it's true the comfort level should be better jic something happens to brewer.
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You seem to have a singular knack for forgetting context. The reason they didn't trust him to throw much in games was because he went from the third string QB to the backup as soon as Leal left. Motley had missed significant practice time before the season due to back pain and during the season because of a class conflict. So his vanilla game plan was a result of a lack of practice snaps with the first and second strings, not an inherent knock against his passing skills.
You also seem to be arguing in circles. Your repeated knock on Ford is a lack of arm strength , but your criticism of Motley is accuracy. Typically speaking, that's the trade off. If you have a QB with a laser-sighted hand cannon, you're probably gonna win the national championship. So which is more important to you, arm strength or accuracy? Not saying you can only have one of the two, but typically one will be stronger and one needing development in all QBs. Yet you're only focusing on whichever needs development in our QBs. You're setting an impossible standard.
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Motley was tied for 1st string prior to his injury, was he not? You are making an assumption on why he wasn't allowed to throw the ball just as I was, so unless you have that directly from SL it's just an opinion.
There is much more than one knock on Ford, but the arm strength is the main one. If ford had great pocket presence, could pick up some yards with his legs etc. then I could still see him having a chance to play here. Not sure that that is the case, but we'll find out eventually. I don't think that believing we can get "average" Qb play by ACC standards is an "impossible standard".
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IMO, Ford's arm does not look as strong as Brewer's and is nowhere close to Motley's, Durkin's or Lawson's (or LT's or even Leal's or Tyrod's or Glennon's or Cory Holt's, etc for that matter).
Whether that's good enough or not is debatable, but he doesn't have a gun.
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Lawson has something VT has not had since Tyrod......
-Speed
-High IQ
-Better Arm
-MUCH Larger
In my opinion, it is possible for him to get reps this year because Motley or Ford may not be the answer for the 2016 season but, Brewer will be the outright starter.
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Watched the Brady draft show this weekend (cool to hear him mention Loefffler)... with analysis of all the qbs rated above him. What stuck out was the comment that these guys ahead of him were throwing to 3 yard windows with a little pressure with mid level athletes defending. When it came to throwing to 1 yard windows with high level athletes and for instance Dadi Nicholas barreling at you its a whole different deal. So, no one really knows how Lawson will react. Heck, could have to wait a couple years for the light to come on. So I'll be hopeful but patient.
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We definitely need to get Durkin in a new position, this fall, if he's never going to be the QB. He is too much of a load with the ball in his hands not to play, dare I say, TE? Go ahead and start getting him acclimated to a new position now we don't need five QBs once Lawson arrives. Ford will most likely be 2nd or 3rd his entire time, which isn't bad he has talent definitely, so I'm not sure if Durkin ever cracks the rotation. But he would make an excellent Hback or TE
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Comments
Good article, Andy. I agree that Brewer has really firmed up the starting position.
I was a little more impressed w/ Ford that I expected for the spring game.
He looked reasonably poised for his experience. He delivered some nice passes, and had I think what should have been a very nice TD if Caleb had run the route Ford was expecting. And it looked like he'd put on some good bulk to be able to absorb some punishment.
Not by any means ready to start, but I was happy with his progress.
Motley looked good as well, and has obviously made strides in his game. I think he'll see some quality snaps this year that aren't just clean-up duty. Those snaps will put him in the driver's seat for 2016.
Honestly, with a year to learn, I think Lawson might be the guy as early as 2016.
I hope so. And considering hes going to have some experienced talent (Cam, Ford, Bucky, Shai, Teller) to help ease him his first year, I think he'll do just fine as a redshirt frosh
Wow. Supplanting a redshirt senior Motley? That's a tall order, considering they both have similar styles.
Tyrod could beat out anybody in Blacksburg right now... especially if he was afforded a redshirt year.
Supposedly Lawson is the second coming.
now, yes, but i dont think they are super comparable. Motley essentially ran a triple option style offense in high school, while Lawson ran more of a spread/proish style. Lawson coming in will be head and shoulders over where Motley was as a freshman. Id be shocked if Lawson isnt named the starter coming out of spring next year.
I agree Lawson will have an easier transition to the college level, but to beat out a guy who has had four years in the system is a huge task. Not saying it won't happen. I WANT it to happen, because if it does that means Lawson is that damn good. I'll just be very pleasantly surprised if it does.
Right now, I think it's more likely that Lawson backs up Motley in '16 and is the starter the rest of his career.
Leal got beat pretty easily despite his experience. I think Lawsons talent will be too much for Motleys experience to overcome
My fingers are crossed that you're right.
Motley > Leal though, by a fairly significant margin, IMO.
Should he not have beat out 3 month Brewer then?
If I recall correctly, Motley was banged up about a month before the season started, and basically lost any chance of starting
Might have been. I just think people get beer goggles with backup qbs too much.
I know right? what was she thinking.
I just read the second sentence in Dr. Phil's voice.
I'm speaking of Motley at this stage, compared to Leal even at his best. Not the Motley who was sidelined for a long spell due to a back injury.
If you don't agree, that's fine, but let's not ignore the specifics of the situation and pretend they didn't have anything to do with Motley's ability to battle for the starting spot last year.
How did you come up with: If Motley> Leal, then Motley>Brewer?
Indeed. It's the internet and football and spring. Bad combo for coherent debate.
People were clamoring for Leal to get starting reps over Logan as well. All I'm saying is, if Motley was "significantly" better, he would have been able to do more than run a few read option plays and then come out late into the season
If you can't look at Motley's productivity in spot duty last year, and this spring, and not see that it is vastly better than Leal at his best, then I just don't know what to say.
You seem to be arguing something different than what I said. Not sure how you got to "if this backup was better than another backup, he should have taken a lot more game-reps from the starter".
You also seem to mistake the plays he was in on last year, which BTW, were significantly more game-reps than Leal ever saw at the same point in his college career, as the sum of his current ability.
The ceiling on Leal was not terribly high. The ceiling on Motley is far far higher, and if he continues to develop like he did this spring, he may surprise a lot of people when competing for the starting spot next spring.
I guess we'll have to disagree. I've seen nothing from Motley that shows he can do more than run. Motley is not "vastly better". Leal had already proven he could pass at at least a check down level when he was a redshirt freshman. You're basing Motley off of 3 career in game attempted passes, and not much to show outside of it. I know he was behind in the depth chart till Leal left, but he was still a redshirt sophomore. I think theres a lot of assumption on where Motley might be, not where he is and based on our track record of developing QBs, I'm going to take the talent over the experience.
We've had our current QB coach for two seasons, and this will be the first year with a returning starter at the position assuming Brewer wins the job. So it's kind of hard for me to take any mention of our track record developing QBs seriously. If O'Cain was still here, you'd have a valid point. With Lefty, not so much.
1. Leal also never learned how to recognize a cover 2.
2. Motley has looked much improved this spring in practices and scrimmages. Not quite on Brewer's level, but definitely solid.
The fact that he had two different TD runs of 50+ yards in a yellow jersey is ridiculous. Also, I don't think he threw a pick all spring, did he?
they said brewer threw 2 and motley threw 3.
I think they said he threw 3 and brewcrew 2 all of spring. not just scrimmages but ALL of spring. that's pretty good considering it seemed like there was a lot of pressure and more emphasis put on throwing the ball around this spring to really get a good look at the QBs progressions.
He did have one more that should've been a pick-6, but still. Even 4 picks all spring isn't bad. Both guys have been outstanding at protecting the football this spring - getting the ball out on time, being accurate, knowing where to miss, throwing it away, etc. Very encouraging. The difference has been in Brewer's comfort in the pocket, decisiveness and accuracy along with an improved deep ball. Spring went about as well as could be reasonably expected for the QB position this spring.
No, Leal was terrible.
You'd think he was 3rd in the Heisman voting by some of the comments on this and other boards over the past 2 years.
Well Motley did get a vote for preseason ACC player of the year...
Leal got leaped too
Word is that Lefty might not even redshirt him, just get him a few plays here and there in Motley's package. Thinks he's a leave early talent anyways, so why waste a year?
Take a breath there, champ. I distinctly remembering many people saying Tyrod would be a "leave early" too, so why waste a year?
Regardless, how many QBs leave early? Maybe 3 or 4 in a class? And usually half of them are guys from Wyoming or somewhere that have no business going early . Lawson got some skills, but the likelihood of him leaving early is quite low. It seems to me that wasting a few plays next year with him to do things that aren't substantially different from what Motley can bring is almost certainly that...wasting a few plays.
Plus I think QB is one of those positions where it doesn't hurt to stay your entire eligibility. Even if your draft stock is high one year as long as you preform up to expectations there shouldn't be too much of a change, save how many QBs and who are going in a year.
I'm not saying I agree with it. The only 2 QBs in the past few years I've really thought didn't have much more to gain from their current situation were Luck and Mariota. That said, sometimes a kid's good enough. Besides, putting a QB in the league to go along with his past success would do a heck of a lot for Loeffler, given that he almost certainly will be back on the job market once Beamer retires.
The majority of QBs who have left early have not done well. Very few leave early and even fewer should. It's possible, but very unlikely, that Lawson will leave early and even less likely he should leave early.
The point is that while it may makes sense to "gameplan" for some players with the expectation of them possibly leaving early (ex: Kendall Fuller), I don't think it makes sense to do so for a QB.
Lawson should use Mariota as an example to follow and not Winston.
For so many, many, many reasons.
More reasons than crabs have legs.
For better or worse though, Winston is one of the VERY few that probably had little to gain by staying longer.
After throwing 18 picks, yeah, I think he does, at least on the field.
From an interesting SB Nation article looking at said interceptions:
That's a pretty big no-no when it comes to succeeding in the NFL, and another year of college football would have helped him improve in that area. Now, whether he could keep his nose clean long enough to actually be eligible next season... yeah, heading to the NFL now was probably the right choice.
NFL qb coaches are usually regarded higher than college qb coaches. He may take his lumps in the NFL, but he's going to get better mechanics coaching by going pro than staying at FSU.
The eligibility issue and potential to slip in the draft were too high for him.
You're quoting SB Nation to support your point? There's the "appeal to authority" if I've ever seen it.
The guy went #1...enough said.
I'm not looking at the source, I'm looking at the numbers. 18 picks and (as anyone who watched him play this year would attest), a decent number of them were because he just flat-out misread coverage. That doesn't fly in the NFL. He was picked #1 because he also has all the physical talent in the world and a knack for making great plays. Still, I don't see him as a great NFL QB simply because for every 7 great decisions he makes, he makes 3 really, really bad decisions. And that's just on the field. He might not be as lazy as, say, JaMarcus Russel, but it wouldn't shock me in the least if he had a similar career.
Not to mention if the NFL does implement losing picks for off season issues that #1 pick just got a lot chancier. Not to mention the civil suit against Jameis has already been filed.
QBs don't leave early because they think they are worried about doing well. they all have the confidence in themselves that they will do well. they leave early because they are a top 5 pick. and that is based on 2 things the 1st being measurable and arm strength and 2nd being on one season of decent production. Logan is a prime example. in NO way was he NFL ready after his sophomore season but had he left he was a 1st round pick. he came back his production dipped and so did his draft stock dramatically. but he would have been a 1st round pick based on potential alone. that's all Dwayne or any other QB leaving early needs to hear is that they will be a 1st round pick because they have the arm/size/etc to entice teams into taking them regardless or success/failure rate. not many QBs drafted in the 1st round I would say are still on the same team at the end of there rookie contract.
sorry should have read more comments before commenting. already been covered right below. my bad
I don't know about that. I think Logan's accuracy and mechanics would have been picked apart in individual workouts. Yes there was some buzz about being a possible first round pick but it was really moot because he didn't declare and undergo the draft and combine and film scrutiny.
That's not true. Hundley would have gone first round last year. LT was a top 5 pick at one point, at least according to Kiper, probably would have gone first or second round at least. I'm sure there are dozens of other examples to choose from.
We're not just talking about draft position here, we're talking about ability to succeed long-term in the NFL. That typically goes beyond athletic ability and into decision-making and understanding of how defenses work and can be exploited. That only comes with experience. Typically, the guys who succeed in the NFL are the guys who spent a bunch of time learning the nuances of the position in college. And then you have guys like Manziel who leave 2 years early and make a bunch of money because of their athleticism but still can't read a defense.
Oh I agree, in terms of being the best player possible, staying in school is usually the better idea (at least intuitively, would be a very interesting research topic), but I never got the sense we were talking about career, this thread has been specifically about leaving early and getting the best possible draft grade, in which case it's kind of a crapshoot. My point was only that given that the goal is to be drafted as high as possible (both for financial reasons, and because it's your best chance at being given a real opportunity to play), you'll want to leave when your stock is highest, whenever that is.
Yeah, I'd buy that. Looking at Winston, there's no question he needs another year or 2 to learn how to be a quarterback, but he's got a high draft grade now and every minute he spends not in the NFL is another minute he can do something stupid to lose a bunch of money. I'm sure it'd benefit him long-term to stay and develop for another year, but in terms of money he can make with that first contract, he's got nowhere to go but down.
This isn't my opinion. Chris Coleman is a heck of a lot more connected to the coaching staff than I am. If he says Lefty is considering, he's considering it. If he thinks Lawson has a good shot at being the guy in 2016, Lawson will likely see the field. If you've paid attention (collective "you" there, by the way), you may notice this is a pretty drastic departure from my previously-held position that Lawson will redshirt barring injuries. I don't think he'll pick up enough of the offense to take the starting job as a freshman, but, just like with Brewer, very well may be good to go after a full season and offseason with the offense.
Loeffler is extremely high on this kid. Says he might be the most talented QB he's ever recruited. With the way the offense looks like it's coming together and Loeffler's reputation as a QB coach, there's very little to indicate Lawson won't be good enough to go pro a year early if he so desires.
I'm not debating the point-I am excited if those closer to the program think Lawson could be 'the guy.'
I think it all comes down to who's ready and gives us the best chance to win.
We've endured some head scratchers as fans going back to the promise of a Michael Vick redshirt and the Glennon/Tyrod mess to Logan is a QB/TE/by far the best that we have.
Loeffler seems focused on getting a handful of talented guys and letting them compete which is a big change from the previous system.
If Lawson can come in and beat out what we have, then I'm excited for the future.
You know what, on second thought, I'll go with my first instinct.
I don't like to spread rumors, even if they are well sourced.
Frankly, this sounds like a lot of offseason, off the record coach smoke blowing to me...
And there is absolutely zero indication that Lawson will be good enough to leave early. Zero. That's not to say he doesn't have skills, but he's not exactly a 5*, top 10 recruit (although I will agree he's a bit underrated by the services). In fact, if VT were to sign the QB's on their current radar, I think Lawson would have his hands full trying to win the starting job in 2017 and 2018, let alone go pro early.
That may be, and you're right...we won't know until Lawson is on campus.
BUT....I'm excited that we now have multiple capable candidates in our stable with another coming and Loeffler is still out looking for more versus a capable 1st team guy and another nice kid or two that make me squeamish to think of injuries.
I'm not saying he should or shouldn't be redshirted since I won't get to see him in camp. My question is will his practice reps take a hit if he is announced as a redshirt before the season. You would think they would try and give the 3rd string reps to the true 3rd string QB (Ford) if they know Lawson isn't going to play to keep Ford ready in case of a debacle like UVA last year. By keeping the option of him playing, he may get more practice reps which would be what he needs for development.
I do realize if we get to our 3rd string QB in a game, we likely will have bigger issues than if it is Ford or Lawson but you have to think which one of them gives us the best chance to still win. Based on what Lefty has said before, I do think Lawson redshirts. He has pretty much said before that for a QB to be successful, they have to have a complete grasp of his offense and we saw what happened last year with Brewer when we didn't have one. Lawson may very well be able to jump on board and learn the offense but will he be able to command it without thinking but instead reacting? The doubt I have there is why I think he will get redshirted in the end. Again, that isn't me saying he should be redshirted, its just what I think will end up happening.
If you have a QB that is able to leave early....especially without playing a down yet in college that says something about hit ability or at least his potential. We'll see how it goes I suspect, but giving him a redshirt year and a couple of snaps here and there in a year to get him "experience" in hopes that he doesn't leave early doesn't really seem like a great idea I suppose. If he comes in and is clearly the number 2 guy then ok. But if not, I don't think wasting his redshirt year to play him in meaningless snaps seems like just wasting a year. He may not leave early, he may not be ready to leave early when the time comes. Unless they give him a meaningful number of snaps this year I think it would be a waste to burn a redshirt playing a couple snaps here and there.
I think I explained what I wanted to say......may have said it a bunch of times over and over....ha ha.
Considering Brewer was the only one to go 1-0 against * last year I would say he is starting labor day barring any injuries. Beyond that who knows what Beamer and Co. will do as they have been pretty unpredictable the last few years...
I'm tempering my expectations. IF the offensive line can hold up, Brewer should be the guy. IF the line turns out to be pedestrian, by week 4 the usual suspects will be clamoring for Motley.
and/or Lawson
I'm cautiously optimistic at this point. The offensive line seems to be taking a huge step forward, and the 1s consistently moved the ball well in the spring game. If they can stay healthy and establish a little depth, we should be able to keep Brewer upright and get the running game going again, which will take a ton of pressure off of the passing game and help eliminate turnovers. Running the ball effectively and keeping Brewer healthy are absolutely critical.
If Lefty thinks Lawson is "the guy," I'm all for him having a package and getting snaps for experience. I think we will see a sizeable improvement from the offense this year, and it should be great in 2016.
I want Lawson to redshirt... if he's as good as advertised. Sure would've been nice to have had Tyrod in 2011.
I would not trade that season Logan Thomas gave us for what we could have gotten with Tyrod.
Man, I like Logan and all, but I would.
What would have been different?
Beating Clemson in either of those 2 games? The issues weren't Logan related in those games. Clemson punked our defense, and they smothered our OL. As good as Tyrod was, he wouldn't have been the deciding factor between those 2 games.
The Sugar Bowl? First of all, Danny Coale caught that ball. Secondly, Logan did everything humanly possible to win us that game.
I mean, it's kinda hard to speculate these specific details, lots of things could have been different. But Tyrod is the best QB I've seen play live and in person in Maroon and Orange, and yes, I'd have taken one less year of Logan for one more year of Tyrod. It's that simple really.
We lost to Clemson 23-3 and only gave up 300 yards to one of the most explosive offenses in the country because our offense couldn't stay on the field and turned over the ball 3 times.
the ACC CG was much worse but it was 10-10 at half time before we collapsed and two of the TDs scored were results of INTs with long returns (over 100 yards combined between the two) and an additional turnover.
Who knows what could have happened, but tyrod had shown progression through each of his years and was acc poty so I think we would have been a better team with his leadership and talent.
yes I seem to remember the only 1st down we got in that game was when david Wilson ran for 456168435135454 yards on one play for a gain of 16.
I could ask you "What would have been the same?" Tyrod would have had so much more command of the playbook, rapport with his receivers, and he would have beenTHE UNDISPUTED leader of the offense, which was lacking in 2011.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one, but I think there's a real possibility of at least 11-0 if Tyrod was back for his redshirt senior year. I'm torn on how the post season would have shaken out, but I think they could have won all of their regular season games that year.
Another year of Tyrod and David Wilson in the same backfield would have scared the shit out of the rest of the conference.
I agree with you, and as for the post season, we would have been on the outside looking in at LSU and a 1 loss Alabama replaying the SEC Championship, or playing LSU once Bama lost. If the former had happened, the SEC bias claims would have been 10x louder.
Could we have beat LSU in 2011? Nope. I don't think so at least, but as they say, that's why you play the game.
What? I would absolutely take an experienced Tyrod for another year over Logan. I think most people here would as well
Agreed. Imagining another year of TT, with Logan getting some quality reps and just running through guys that year. It's a beautiful dream.
That said, if we'd had an absolute magical season we likely wouldn't have made the coaching changes that look like they are starting to pay off in a big way.
So all things considered, I'm happy the way things worked out.
You beat me to it. Having Tyrod would have been nice in '11, but it would have only delayed the realization of how dire the QB situation was for another year. The net effect would probably have been negative, because we would have most likely not brought in Ford and Durkin in their recruiting cycle and might not have landed Brewer's transfer. Our QB situation now might look a lot like it did then. Overall I think we're in a better place than we would have been with a redshirt senior Tyrod in '11.
I agree with you guys on the future of our QB situation at that point, I was just talking about having Tyrod for another year. But to be honest, we really dont know how the QB recruiting cycle would have gone if the above scenario happened, for better or worse.
is it me or do we really have no idea how good Durkin/Ford really are? Felt bad for Ford during the spring game he had 0 time and the snaps he got were blown up ASAP. Durkin might not ever see a real snap at QB in game? not to be that guy but TE anyone or H back?
I believe Durkin is a transfer or a move to TE used as a wildcat QB.
Reading the tea leaves, this is about where I am as well. I love the idea of having a Tim Tebow back there, but we're going to have so much talent at WR and TE we're mostly going to need a guy who can really sling it and command the offense from the pocket.
Lining up a wing T QB (Motley) or a bulldozer behind the line (Durkin, presumably, since I haven't seen him at all from my barn stall) is almost a waste of Ford, Hodges, and Phillips. Not to say a great receiver can't still be great in an offense with a QB who runs a lot (see Evans, Mike), but I don't think we'll go that route.
So I'm guessing next year (2016) we'll see Ford as the starter with Lawson (playing the Tyrod to his Glennon) and Motley (playing the Leal to his Brewer) as the back up and Durkin moving to TE (Malleck gone), HB (do we even have HBs?), or FB (Wright and Rogers are both Juniors next season, Peoples and Logan Adkins [208 lbs] are the other two).
Durkin separated his non-throwing shoulder before the spring game and didn't participate. I was impressed with Ford given the line that he was playing behind. He was able to identify the bust in coverage for a long gain at the end of the first half and seemed to move in the pocket (what pocket he had at least) and go through his progressions well enough to my untrained eye. Besides the big gain and the fade that Caleb missed, the Ford throw that stands out to me was when he scrambled to his left and tried to hit Newsome on a short pass that was dropped.
I can feel attrition at QB coming....You've got Durkin (FR.), Ford(FR.), Motley(JR), and Brewer(SR.) here already, then you've got Lawson coming in the summer (who Loeffler is SUPER high on), plus we're in the hunt for highly-touted QB ?,Haskins....
not a bad problem to have....look at OSU's QB problems...sucks to be them..."Oh no, who do we play they are all so good???"
I would like to see Durkin at another position. Some type of TE/HB position where he could flex into the backfield at times would be cool. He's also DE sized and has defense in his family (uncle is a DC).
If this was my PS3 game, Durkin would have been switched to DE already.
DT...he's clearly too big to be playing DE in the VT system.
Agreed. He may very well be a good QB, but he's quickly falling behind in the pecking order. Since he wasn't an early enrollee last year, he was already behind Ford and lost some time to an injury if I remember correctly. I was really hoping he would get a chance to compete this spring, but again he lost time to injury. With Brewer and Motley clearly at the top, Ford the next man up, and an extremely talented Lawson coming in this summer, I worry if he will ever get a chance to make an impact at QB. Excellent size and athleticism, though. He probably could make a great TE/H-Back/Goalline QB. We'll just have to see how it all pans out.
haskins isn't coming here.
Thats why I said "in the hunt for", we're definitely in the hunt. Although, I doubt he comes to Tech too...
Iron sharpens iron. I would rather have guys who want to earn the job.
I know everyone always likes the new shinny toy but lets slow down. Lawson may be all of that and a bag of chips but he's not done anything on a collegiate level yet so lets wait and see before moving him up the depth chart. I think Motley has the best shot of being the starter next year if he is more consistent/high completion rate. If not enter Mr. Ford and if Ford is the starter next year and plays well Mr. Lawson may have to wait his turn. I have not seen enough of Durkin to formulate an opinion but he did come in fairly highly rated so your guess is as good as mine. But I will have to agree having several talented QB's to choose from is a good thing!!
Minority opinion but with Lawson's HS OC on staff, if he (Lawson) enrolls in June, he may very well not redshirt. Taking Lefty at his word that Motley still has a ways to go to be consistently effective and given Brewer's injury history, I think Lawson will get some experience.
I think the Lawson redshirt or play thing will come down to the wire in August.
Even if it doesn't.
Am I the only one who thinks Motley is significantly improved? He looks much better going through progressions and reading the D than last year. He has a cannon and obviously is super fast and elusive. If he makes the same steps forward to next year that he took this year from last year, he will start next year, hands down. This year, I think he will get in every fourth series, or to run the read option. I think they will definitely play him, some.
He needs to harness that cannon and turn strength into accuracy. Missed on a couple of would-be big plays in the spring game.
He missed a long td to I Ford by a matter of inches. He's hit several earlier in the spring -- I think there's good reason to think that with more snaps with the ones, that timing will develop.
Obviously I'm a big fan. I'll be forever grateful to him that he turned down GT for us. But I really think he's got the potential to be a great one for us. Dare I say, a Bryan Randall with a bigger arm and the wheels to take it to the house on any given play.
As you said, I think they'll use him as a spread option change of pace similar to what they started to do at the end of last year but I think the most effective passer of Motley and Lawson will be the starter in 2016. I don't think that's hands down anyone and as much as QBs get hit these days, we can really use two guys that are ready to play at a fairly high level.
Can Brewer be challenged? Absolutely. The other guys we have on the roster have plenty of talent on their own, and if Lawson is as good as advertised, he might be one of the all time greats to ever put on the VT...
Will Brewer be challenged? If he keeps playing like he did this spring, no.
I've been on Brewer's case for awhile but it was great to see his improvement this spring...much better timing and accuracy with the receivers. He isn't going to knock anyone over with the football but he was WAY better. Hope he stays healthy and can keep making good decisions.
Brewer's play and stats this spring were similar to what he did at TT in games and practice games. I think what we saw this spring is probably more the real Michael Brewer than what we saw at times last fall.
Everyone was singing Ford's praises last year. "Great find by Lefty", "Elite 11 QB selection", etc. I guess I'm a bit out of the loop, but what is it about Lawson that makes him so much better than Ford?
Arm strength and athleticism without sacrificing football IQ and decision-making ability.
What we know about Lawson:
1) Great Athleticism
2) Strong Arm
3) The Hokie Nation has high hopes for him
What we don't know:
1) How high his Football IQ really is?
2) How long it will take to adjust to the speed of college football?
3) How long it will take him to pick up the offense?
4) How he will adjust to being in college and freedoms that come with it?
5) How long it will take him to mature?
I'm hoping he comes in this summer with his hair on fire and blows us all away but I do not want to put unfair expectations on him. He's a teenager and we need to expect him to make teenage mistakes. Plus taking a red shirt year to learn how to be a college QB on and off the field is priceless!!
I think there's enough evidence for #1 in unknowns to move up to the knowns. Between on-field decisions and off-field study habits (reported), he doesn't seem like a guy who gets by just on athleticism and arm talent.
#2-#5 is why I openly laugh in the face of anyone who's convinced Lawson will outright win the starting job from Brewer. There are just so many unknowns when it comes to a young kid adjusting to college life and college ball. That said, if Lefty sees him as potentially the guy in 2016, there's no better teacher than experience. For that reason, I can see him getting the kid on the field to get his feet wet and really adjust to the speed of the game, while also putting a talented playmaker in the field to help win games.
I agree that he probably won't win the starting job this year, but I don't see the value in putting him in to gain a little gameday experience at the expense of an entire season. If we burn his redshirt, he'd better be the starter imo. I wouldn't bank on players leaving early, that's by far the exception, not the rule.
I still think it was a mistake to burn Tyrod's redshirt. I think he could've had an even better redshirt senior year.
not to nit-pick, but per TSL he turns 20 in July.
Which would make him a teenager...
But won't be when he arrives on campus.
Coming out of HS
Ford: 6'-3" 185; moderate mobility; 35 yd effective passing range; shotgun passing QB in HS; noted for high level of accuracy
Lawson: 6'-5" 210(+); 50 yd effective passing range; dual threat; spread/pro-style pass QB in HS; noted as a pass/run playmaker
I think people saw Lawson light it up in the post season HS all star game and are looking for the next in the line of exciting dual threat QBs that helped put VT on the map.
I'm intrigued by the prospect of having a dual threat QB behind a competent offensive line. We have not had that since MV7.
Ehh... I'd say Randall was the last dual threat we had with a competent OL.
Brings up a good point. Stiney was a pretty good OL coach, but his lines were a step down from J.B. Grimes' in my opinion. You're probably right, though, Randall's lines were serviceable at the least.
Ford may not have the biggest arm or break away speed but neither did Joe Montana. A high football IQ and accuracy will take you a long way!!
I'm hoping next years depth chart will be:
Motley- kid is coming along and has some skills
Ford- maybe getting overlooked for a elite 11 high school QB
Durkin- Not seen enough to make a decision
Lawson- If ready moves up the depth chart but not rushed into action d/t risk of loosing confidence.
Note: I thought it was funny Saturday when S. Glennon said the coaches must really like Lawson to be bringing his high school OC with him.
People that have seen ford throw even without a live rush (just in skeleton drills) have said he doesn't have the arm to be a QB for us. Ford was NOT an elite 11 QB. He was invited to the camp for a chance to earn that distinction and he was not selected. I've seen nothing from motley to believe he's coming along. I hope he stays healthy and gets some reps this year, but he's basically just put into the game to run. Lawson is the guy in '16 if we want to start getting back to championships within the next few years IMO.
I stand corrected. But Ford being invited to the camp speaks volumes of his talent. I have not heard anyone say he does not have the arm to play for us? I hope you are right about Lawson but I'm going to wait until he plays against college level talent before naming him the next starting QB.
definitely agree with waiting to get Lawson on campus before we get too excited. Ford doesn't have the arm and being invited to the camp speaks to the competition of the event he went to in order to qualify. Not sure who all was there but him winning MVP tells me either he had the day of his life or there wasn't much talent at the qb position.
Ford was the Gatorade Player of the Year for the state of Pennsylvania. Perhaps the issue isn't with the talent that was at whatever camp he was at but rather with the way in which you evaluate talent compared to those who call themselves experts and professionals making a career out of doing so...
the ones that didn't pick him to be in the elite 11 or the ones that have him as 3rd string on a team desperately looking for an average QB?
Third string as a redshirt freshman behind a redshirt senior and redshirt junior, respectively, both of whom have game experience and had good springs. I'm not seeing anything particularly damning of Andrew in that scenario.
Motley hardly has much game experience and as for having a good spring it depends on how you define "good". He made it through healthy which was definitely good, but the spring game itself wasn't a showcase for his throwing. He missed at least two routine TD passes (ford + Knowles) and looked ok running the ball.
As for Ford outside of the 1 pass to newsome there wasn't much to be impressed with. Would need to see him behind an OL that can let him get comfortable I guess, but his arm strength is pretty bad IMO.
He missed I Ford on a long-ball by, literally, inches. But yes, spring-game wasn't his best showing, and certainly demonstrated he shouldn't be the starter this year, as things stand now. Brewer had a bit of an off day too, in me perspective, but handled the adverse conditions better.
According to all the reports, Motley has had an outstanding spring practice though. His performance in the scrimmages was good to very good.
So yes, if your sample size is the spring game, I can see why you wouldn't be high on Motley. I think if you look at his body of work over the spring, you see a guy making big strides in his understanding of the offense and in his execution of it, and when you couple that with his mobility and demonstrated ability to take it to the house from anywhere on the field (he had what, 2 or 3 40 yard plus runs this spring?), you see a guy that has a great shot of taking the next step and being a great starting QB.
Missed it by much more than inches and brewer hit the throw on the same pattern with a much tighter window later in the game. The coaches don't seem to have much confidence in his throwing abilities in game situations, or at least didn't last year. Whenever he was in the game it was just to run the ball. Hopefully he is getting much better and is able to provide a spark if brewer is struggling, hurt, etc. As for the potential to be great not so sure though i'm holding out hope that Lawson is the one that is worthy of that type of praise.
I'm out.
Brewer having a better spring doesn't mean Motley had a bad one. He's still a step behind in the passing game, but he definitely had a good spring. We should feel a LOT better about our QB situation now than we did last year.
agreed never said he had a bad one, but feel like the distance between the two has widened. Can't comment on the good spring as I just saw the one game and I wouldn't call that one good. He's at least healthy this year, so it's true the comfort level should be better jic something happens to brewer.
He had 2 50 yard TD runs in a yellow jersey untouched. He had 3 interceptions to Brewers 2. So yes he had a pretty damn good spring.
You seem to have a singular knack for forgetting context. The reason they didn't trust him to throw much in games was because he went from the third string QB to the backup as soon as Leal left. Motley had missed significant practice time before the season due to back pain and during the season because of a class conflict. So his vanilla game plan was a result of a lack of practice snaps with the first and second strings, not an inherent knock against his passing skills.
You also seem to be arguing in circles. Your repeated knock on Ford is a lack of arm strength , but your criticism of Motley is accuracy. Typically speaking, that's the trade off. If you have a QB with a laser-sighted hand cannon, you're probably gonna win the national championship. So which is more important to you, arm strength or accuracy? Not saying you can only have one of the two, but typically one will be stronger and one needing development in all QBs. Yet you're only focusing on whichever needs development in our QBs. You're setting an impossible standard.
Motley was tied for 1st string prior to his injury, was he not? You are making an assumption on why he wasn't allowed to throw the ball just as I was, so unless you have that directly from SL it's just an opinion.
There is much more than one knock on Ford, but the arm strength is the main one. If ford had great pocket presence, could pick up some yards with his legs etc. then I could still see him having a chance to play here. Not sure that that is the case, but we'll find out eventually. I don't think that believing we can get "average" Qb play by ACC standards is an "impossible standard".
IMO, Ford's arm does not look as strong as Brewer's and is nowhere close to Motley's, Durkin's or Lawson's (or LT's or even Leal's or Tyrod's or Glennon's or Cory Holt's, etc for that matter).
Whether that's good enough or not is debatable, but he doesn't have a gun.
Ford was not an Elite 11 QB. He competed in the final Elite 11 selection camp, but was not named one of the 11.
oops
Lawson has something VT has not had since Tyrod......
-Speed
-High IQ
-Better Arm
-MUCH Larger
In my opinion, it is possible for him to get reps this year because Motley or Ford may not be the answer for the 2016 season but, Brewer will be the outright starter.
Uh...LT didn't have those? For that matter, you could put Durkin's name in for those traits as well (although how do you know Lawson has a high IQ?).
From the highlight-tape I watched he can get out of the pocket much quicker than LT. He has better agility is what I should have said.
LT was about as quick off the line as Druckenmiller, but with a higher top-end and more torque.
One of the things that never failed to tickle me was watching Druck run the option.
But we watched Druck on the option to see the LB's, DE's, and DT's all dragged down the field cause they couldn't tackle the man.
Watched the Brady draft show this weekend (cool to hear him mention Loefffler)... with analysis of all the qbs rated above him. What stuck out was the comment that these guys ahead of him were throwing to 3 yard windows with a little pressure with mid level athletes defending. When it came to throwing to 1 yard windows with high level athletes and for instance Dadi Nicholas barreling at you its a whole different deal. So, no one really knows how Lawson will react. Heck, could have to wait a couple years for the light to come on. So I'll be hopeful but patient.
Which show is this?
We definitely need to get Durkin in a new position, this fall, if he's never going to be the QB. He is too much of a load with the ball in his hands not to play, dare I say, TE? Go ahead and start getting him acclimated to a new position now we don't need five QBs once Lawson arrives. Ford will most likely be 2nd or 3rd his entire time, which isn't bad he has talent definitely, so I'm not sure if Durkin ever cracks the rotation. But he would make an excellent Hback or TE
From what I've heard from a very good source, the coaches still see Durkin as a QB, but a position change is not unthinkable.
Did anyone else see that Lawson is having a tough time qualifying to get into school.....? Or is that a rumor?
Don't think it's a rumor, but hopefully everything works out.
Yeah I wasn't sure. He could go to post-grad for a year and come in a year late if needed......
Yup but then his recruitment opens back up as well.
Yeah...I'm like you, I hope it all works out.
I just read where one of his upsides is that he is smart and has it together in the classroom. Ugh.
I know...... I hope it all works out. He needs to get reps this year in practice and possible game situations.
I hate the fucking off season.
Aren't the best rumors the ones that are most unsubstantiated?
I'm trying to figure out how to spin "f*cking off season" into a way to get someone to leave me alone.
"Is it baseball season yet?"
"Nah, but it's f*cking off season, and you're in the playoffs. Go away."