Three ESPN radio personalities fanned the flames on the possible demise of the Big XII conference. (The name / handle you may recognize is Ian Fitzsimmons out of Dallas.)
According to @ESPN_Colin "The Big 5 in CFB is ready to be the Big 4... BigXII will evaporate, Oklahoma is SEC bound & the Pac12 wants Texas"— Paul Finebaum (@finebaum) June 30, 2015
Tubs told us he has heard if the Big 12 doesn't expand as David Boren said it should it could be absorbed into the other Power 5 conferences— Ian Fitzsimmons (@Ianfitzespn) June 29, 2015
Steven Godfrey of SB Nation spoke with Cincinnati coach Tommy Tuberville (Tubs) to get clarification of his comments (http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/6/30/8867729/big-12-expans...).
"Next few years, couple things could happen," he continued. "People could take different teams in and boost their numbers up, or they could consolidate and go from five power conferences to four. I don't know what they're going to do, but you have to have an even number. You can't have five. You've got to do something."
When asked if the Bearcats would be a suitable addition to the Big 12, Tuberville was honest.
"Oh, I don't know. Well, I think they would. But will that happen? The problem is that the Big 12's TV package is not that great. They're not even near [some other power conferences in TV revenue]. So they have a tough time making a decision [on expanding]. Now if it was better, they would've already made a decision. Would we be in? I don't know."
Colin Cowherd is among ESPN's least credible mouths, and Paul Finebaum will pump life into anything with a pulse. I take what they have to say with a grain of salt (and they're probably just riffing on Tub's initial comments). Tuberville adds some authority to the notion that some Big 12 schools might see greener pastures elsewhere and the conference could implode if it doesn't expand.
With all that said, I'm giving you the power. If the Big 12 schools are eventually absorbed by the remaining Power 4 conference, what is one school you would immediately grant acceptance into the ACC, and what is one school you would deny forever?
Comments
WVU, as much as I dislike, the school it's the only one that won't cost more money than its worth(outside Texas clearly).
The problem with WVU is that I am not sure if their academic standards hold up to the rest of the ACC except for Louisville. That was a big factor on who the ACC wanted to invite to join and Louisville was given an exemption because their athletics are very good. WVU is not on the same level in terms of all athletic teams, not just football and basketball, so they aren't likely to get an exemption. All in all if WVU academics hold up to the standards of the rest of the ACC then they would probably get added.
I'd love for the ACC to extend West Virginia an invitation, and then at the last minute take it back "Sorry. just kidding" style. Because messing with the cousins' heads is always fun.
Huh? WVU will take more than it brings.
Not really, the cost for non revenue sports to travel to any other Big 12 team will be excessive.
would it be any more than what BC has to pay to play Miami?
Boston and Miami are large cities with large airports, most Big 12 schools are not located near large airports. Your also talking more total travel for more teams, add 1/2 Big 12 teams and travel for every school becomes a trek.
but with that even comes costs. Is it cost/time effective for the volleyball team from BC to fly to Miami for a 1.5 hour meet? Football to me gets a pass on the travel, because it brings in revenue. The other sports should be more regionally based.
That's why I don't have an issue with football becoming it's own thing, and the conferences being based on the non-revenue sports.
Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plain
Regionally, the only team that would make sense in the ACC is WVU. With that being said, they are WVU. After that, I'd probably say Kansas. Bolsters the basketball side of the conference and adds a pretty decent academic institution with a large endowment. I can't see any Texas schools in the ACC due to location though.
Even with Fullwood coming in, a large endowment could help fill the void left by Wang's departure.
Please, no on Kansas. We need FOOTBALL strength, not more basketball powerhouses.
Unless of course, we throw out UNCheat and replace them with Kansas. I could get on board with that.
The only school with more to offer as a whole than Kansas in the Big XII is UT and we aren't going to get UT, so I went with Kansas.
I would say Oklahoma has a lot more to off than Kansas
When I say has more to offer, I'm talking from University academics perspective, not just athletics. Yes, OU has a more prolific athletic program, but KU is far better with regards to their academic standing. The ACC uses partnerships in academics for many research efforts, which helps get grants and other funding outside of athletics. Kansas is also an AAU institution, making them a B1G target. Plus, geographically, Kansas is closer. Iowa State is the closest, but nobody wants them. In my perfect world, if the Big XII dissolved, we would take none of them. The entire landscape of college football, and likely most all of college athletics, would need to be redesigned.
Thanks for the information. I didn't know much about Kansas academically.
If this were to happen I would want the SEC to absorb the majority of the Big12 (maybe texas, oklahoma, baylor and one or 2 others) and then the ACC absorb maybe 2 sec schools (Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, or South Carolina). I would like to keep conferences as local as possible. By adding some of these SEC schools, you add a few more conference games to the season since Louisville, GT and Clemson all have annual in-state rivalries with these opponents. Tennessee would be a local addition if the ACC wants another state television market and would make for a good rivalry with VT.
That would be nice, but no SEC would ever want to leave. Way too much money. Except for a school like Vandy (who would make a perfect ACC fit with their small, private, very smart, basketball/baseball school) who doesn't care about their football program too much.
Don't we have enough of those? Wake, Syracuse, UVA.
I really don't feel like that is fair to Wake or Syracuse.
I would love to see this happen.
My ideal is geographically consistent leagues. There can be overlap (like FSU and UM being in the ACC and UF being in the SEC), but crap like WVU being in the big 12 is ridiculous. Let the PAC-XX have schools to the west, SEC to the south, B1G to the north/northeast, and ACC to the east/southeast. Sure, this would mean losing BC, Syracuse, and ND, but, somehow, I think I could get over it.
Even if we just had a league identity, I'd be ok with that. It used to be smart schools that played sports in the mid/south atlantic. Then we let BC in, but at least we were still on the east coast with high academic rankings. Then with ND we stopped being an east coast league. Then we let in UL and threw academic standards out the window (relatively).
After looking at this, I take it back (sort of).
There are currently 65 P5 teams. Tossing WVU to the curb gets us down to a nice even 64 (P4 with 16 each anyone?). But then there is a massive deadzone between the west coast and the midwest as far as P5 schools are concerned and it already doesn't make sense for colorado to be in the PAC-12, much less 4 more schools from even further east.
geographically, we'd need a south eastern conference, a north eastern conference, a mid west conference, and a west coast conference. So we'd be in a conference with all schools east and north of Kentucky (yay OSU ND and UM, boo...everyone else).
Looking at that map, here is what I want to do to even out the conferences a little more. And this is strictly based at looking at that map, not taking any history or knowledge of those schools into consideration.
Pac-16
-current 12 plus the 4 Texas schools in the Big 12
Big 16
-current 14 plus Iowa State and Missouri
SEC
-current 14 minus Missouri and Kentucky plus the 4 Kansas/Oklahoma schools
ACC
-current 14 plus Kentucky and WVU
Notre Dame...they can figure their own mess out.
Now, if I was just given 64 or 65 teams to assign to conferences, it would be a lot different.
I have it all blown up, just going regionally, leaving Rutgers out (really, who will miss them) and only splitting A&M from their other state-mates because that was already ugly. The rest of the state schools are paired up.
Atlantic: BC, Syracuse, Penn State, Pitt, Maryland, WVU, VT, UVA, Wake, Duke, UNC, NC State, Clemson, South Carolina, Kentucky, Louisville
South: Miami, Florida, FSU, Auburn, Alabama, Miss, Miss St, LSU, Vandy, Tenn, Arkansas, Georgia, Ga Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas A&M
North: Ohio St, Mich, Mich St, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Minn, Iowa, Iowa St, Illinois, Purdue, Notre Dame, Indiana, Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas, Kansas St
West: Wash, Wash St, Oregon, Oregon St, Cal, Stanford, UCLS, USC, Arizona, Ariz St, Utah, Colo, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Texas
see this is what I was afraid of. We end up in the league that noone wants to televise. Seriously, let's break this down by potential NC contenders:
Atlantic- South Carolina...VT? (only because I believe...)
South- FSU, Alabama, Georgia, Oklahoma, Texas A&M (possibly more. this one should be "who isn't a powerhouse)
North- OSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, Nebraska (maybe), Kansas State (maybe)
West- Oregon, USC, Texas
Wasn't looking at strength of teams, just regionality. Similar to the pro sports (even though sometimes they are a little skewed...)
Now, if the 64 really break out, all bets are off. And, in all honesty, probably should be settled with a draft. Set up 4 conference commissioners, and let them "draft" the teams they want. With the money that would would roll in from a 12 game reg season (7 in your division, 4 from the other division, 1 wildcard) the travel wouldn't be a problem because it would only be football, not all the other sports. (Those need to become more regional too, to be fair. Miami should have to go to Boston to play volleyball!!!)
That draft also being the viewership into play. Do you take Rutgers for the NYC crowd, or Mizzuo because they could win 9-10 games? hmmmmm.
I think ideally for competitive purposes and non-revenue travelling, you would take the FBS either down to 120 schools or up to 130 then create 10-school conferences based on location, athletics, and rivalries. This would take away conference autonomy but we'd get rivalries like UK-UL, WVU-Pitt, FSU-Miami-Florida, etc. deciding conference titles. Unfortunately the ACC would have to lose its best football programs and replace them with South Carolina and probably ECU, losing the reach throughout the east coast we have now, but I think it would make football more exciting across the country. At the moment we'll see some teams once every 7 years in football and once a year in basketball, that doesn't create good rivalries. I don't want to expand too much on this and bore everyone, but it would have to be instituted by the NCAA (or really the successor to the NCAA).
In this theoretical conference construction the ACC would contain: Maryland, VT, UVA, UNC, WF, NC State, Duke, ECU, Clemson, and South Carolina. Basketball, baseball, and Carolina heavy. Competitive, not the best realigned 10 school conference but would still rank near the top in all sports.
The problem with that is you leave Tech with only one rival in the conference (an no ECU doesn't count). I like it when we play rivalry games with Miami and now we're playing WVU (for better or for worse) again.
You mean for worse or for worser
I agree, UVA would be the only major rivalry left and I would miss playing Miami and GT. And ECUs rivalry inclusion would be NC State and other Carolina schools not us. My whole idea for this is based on all the conferences so the sell wouldn't be specific to Tech.
The rest of the Carolina schools would strongly dispute the notion that they have a rivalry with ECU.
Yeah but do they hate ECU? Do they want to beat ECU? Bury them so deep no one will find them? Can they not stand ECU fans telling them that they won the last time they played? (Mostly referring to NC State, would take them from little brother to middle brother). That sounds like a rivalry to me, and it would definitely become one if they were in the same conference.
I think they feel the same way VT fans feel about ECU- they don't have any feelings at all, just that they're sick of playing them. No one really cares enough about ECU to consider them a rival, though ECU considers all of those teams to be hated rivals.
ECU is basically the ODU of NC. The only people who really cares about them are those who live near Greenville or went to ECU. Outside of that, they don't move the needle at all in NC media. Here in Raleigh, at the best of times, when ECU was a team that had its stuff together, they were still relegated to Page 3 in the Sports Section, or footnote on the main page on the website. And when they did pull off a big win (like when they beat UNC a couple years ago), the stories were about how UNC gagged it, and not how good ECU was.
I'm not even joking... if we ever get to a point where ECU is granted admission to the ACC, something had to go seriously wrong with the process.
BTW all of this discussion is dependent on a hypothetical re-conferencing based on 10 team conferences that exists solely in my head. Every conference gets some crappy teams, many get non-traditional powers. In my scenario, although it could change because there are schools that are on the outside still, best case has the ACC needing a 10th team to join UMD, UVA, VT, WF, UNC, Duke, NCSt., SCAR, and Clemson and the school that fits best is ECU. Of course outside of this unlikely reconstruction, I would never argue for ECU to join the ACC over Big 12 or top flight AAC schools.
In a dream world where we get to ignore the geographical hardships and the influence of other conferences on where the schools end up then give me K-State, Kansas, Oklahoma State, and Oklahoma. Each school either has a strong basketball program, strong football program, or both. No one wants to deal with the gravity of Texas, Iowa State and Texas Tech arbitrarily don't strike me as great fits, and Baylor/TCU would probably be better SEC/PAC 12 fits. I wouldn't want WVU in hopes that no one picked them up and they landed in a lower conference.
Realistically we probably take WVU (Geography), Kansas (Would want to be in the best basketball conference), K-State (Following Kansas), and Texas Tech (Because reasons).
Anyone but WVU.
Fuck the 'Eers
Agreed.
Fuck WVU.
Anyone who has never had the "privilege" of visiting Morganhole will never quite understand. The cousins take pride in being douches and I have no desire to deal with a fan base like that on a regular basis ever again.
WVU doesn't deserve to be in the ACC, and not even because I dislike them. Horrible academics, tiny endowment, no added media market.
Oklahoma and Texas have their homes elsewhere.
Kansas would make sense under Hokie_x3_Hi's rationale. I would personally love to add Baylor (although adding a Texas school seems weird). It's situated in an area that could get the ACC's footprint into the Dallas, Houston, Austin and San Antonio markets, has a large endowment, and solid academics. They've been more than relevant across the board in athletics recently.
More expanded thoughts:
- I don't think the SEC lets Oklahoma or Texas get away from them, and even if they turn down the SEC, I doubt the ACC is either of their #2 options.
- I wouldn't be surprised to see at least 2 of the remaining Texas schools (TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech) head to the Pac-12, as they're going to try to get into the Texas market any way they can.
- TCU and Baylor bring an interesting dynamic due to location and their status as fairly large private schools with big endowments.
- WVU, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Oklahoma State are probably the four least desirable, listed from least desirable to most. I'm leaning towards thinking Oklahoma State would be a huge headache as long as T. Boone Pickens is around - he bullies everyone with his money to get what he wants for the other OSU.
My semi-realistic wishlist, ranked:
1) ND shits or gets off the pot (wait that's not semi-realistic at all)
2) Two of Baylor/TCU/SMU/Houston
3) One or two of Cincinnati/UConn (One if ND joins ACC in football)
4) One of USF/UCF if you can't fill in four schools from the top three ranks.
WVU to mid American conf. , along with ECU.
Grant immediately: Texas. Duke, UNC and the Carolina coalition can keep the Longhorns in check politically. Texas' money, prestige, draw and exposure is second-to-none and could help the ACC land a lucrative television contract.
Ban permanently: WVU. The 'Eers don't deserve nice things. When it's all said and done I want WVU looking on the outside in of the Power 4. If they can't gain admission to the ACC, their only hope is the SEC, and they might land there if the SEC misses out on Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas, TCU, etc...
I also wonder... if we swing in Texas, do we suddenly have the financial backing to tell Notre Dame to shit or get off the pot?
how does the longhorn network affect conference wide revenues? Would that hurt our tv deal if all texas games are already spoken for?
Big picture, I have a feeling the ACC is setting itself up for all of their schools to have their own networks (online or cable) down the line, with the conference pooling all the revenue. Could be a tough sell for Texas initially, but with ND, FSU, and all the other flagship schools in the ACC fold, that kind of setup could bring in boatloads of additional revenue to everyone in not too long.
If any of this goes down the picture is crystal clear to ND that they need to join a conference - not that it isn't already.
Option 1: Big XII expands to host a CCG because they know they need a CCG not just for marketing, but also for access to the playoffs. In which case it's obvious that ND won't have access to the playoffs without one.
Lesson for ND: join a conference.
Option 2: Big XII folds then four conferences make a four team playoff nice and neat. End of story.
Lesson for ND: join a conference.
This is absolutely correct.
Texa$$$$$$$$
^this.
Texas in a heartbeat.
Money, exposure, recruiting, TV presence.....its a home run.
No to WVU.....we would be stuck playing them yearly and it does nothing for recruitment, money, TV exposure, etc.
I wouldn't mind adding TCU, KSU or OSU assuming Texas and Oklahoma are out of the question.
Joe beat me to it, but I want Texa$ and WVU can end up in Div. II for all I care. They can go to hell
You must have never been to Morgantown....Hell is an upgrade.
The hole is just as deep, and the company....well.....
You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas. (Davy Crockett)
"Screw you, we're from Texas." (Ray Wylie Hubbard)
Two teams get added each to the other 4 P5 conferences.
Oklahoma and TCU to SEC
Texas and Texas Tech to PAC12
Kansas and OK ST to BIG10
WVU and Cincy to ACC
Iowa state, Kansas state are left out because of lackluster athletics, academics and market. Baylor does not make the cut for the SEC or B1G over the other 4 schools and is a terrible cultural fit with the PAC12. The ACC uses the chaos to take in Cincy instead. WVU makes the cut entirely out of the want for a more regional conference.
I think this is most realistic, despite how shafted the ACC gets. But hey! We can still be the bigger fish in a less-competitive pond.
Kansas would but OK State is not an AAU school so they would be out. I could see us make a run at Texas as well for several reasons:
1. $$$$$
2. They are good fit academically and in sports
3. $$$$$
4. They would give the B1G a big footprint in the southeast, especially if we added Kansas
5. Did I mention the incremental revenue they would bring in?
I would guess the SEC would also make a run at them and the possibility of renewing the TU - TAMU rivalry would be a big draw. However, a large B1G TV contract (which is soon to be renewed) and the academic plus of the COC might help the B1G overcome that.
Personally, I'd like to see 8 super conferences of 16 so we have a natural playoff of 8 conf champs to 4 to the NC game...
Conferences that big would only perpetuate the problem of not playing other teams in your conference very often.
True, but If you got rid of 3 of the cup cake games and kept one good out of conference rivals you could minimize that problem. The real problem is you'd probably wind up with 4 strong conferences in the ACC B1G P12 and SEC and 4 mid to poor conferences so most years you'd really have a Power 4 playoff with the first game, barring an upset, a gimme. In addition, you'd probably see most of the revenue flow to the P4 conferences, making it even harder for the others to maintain competitive teams.
That would be 11 conference games which would almost eliminate the premiere match ups we all like watching now like our big rematch coming up.
Not necessarily; you'd just miss some skills every few years in conference. You'd add one to your division so one OOC game would be gone, but the scheduling could be done to preserve 2 OOC games each year so matches like ours could still happen. I'd argue they'd be more likely because an OOC loss would have no impact on your playoff chances but desirable matches mean $$ as well as a chance to test yourself against good competition.
Then again, I could be wrong; not an unusual occurrence just ask my wife...
Just trying to sort out the numbers...so kind of thinking out loud here.
If you keep 2 OOC, that's 10 conference games.
16 teams, 8 per division. 7 divisional opponents. Play 3 out of 8 teams on other side.
Unless you were saying staying at 8 or 9 conference games, which would give you only 1 or 2 teams from the other side.
That's not much different than how the B1G schedules currently. We have 8 conference games, so adding 2 more teams and 2 conference games while dropping 2 OOC cupcakes would keep the current rotation pretty much intact. If we added strong teams it would make the season better overall as well as have the potential to increase overall revenue for us and the B1G.
At that point, the focus would be on the division you were in, and would almost have to be viewed as two 8 team conferences allied together.
But by the time we got up to 16 team conferences, you'd have to take a different look at conference identity anyway. After all, right now the ACC is more of a merger between the old ACC and old Big East rather than any expansion.
right. So the championship game is basically first round of the playoffs except you'll know the pool from which your opponent will get pulled ahead of time. Of course the problem with this is you'd never get more than one team per conference into the playoffs. Which, at 8 teams, would be an expectation for some of the more competitive conferences.
But if we're re-aligning everything, we could just make sure each division is half P5 schools and half G5 schools to spread out the good teams. And 5 years later we'll have the same problem again as some schools improve and others tank.
Baylor has too much upside to be left out in the dust. It would make for crazy geography but I'd be down to add Baylor (rising superstar in football, great academics, large endowment, ACC would strike gold for media-market expansion) and Cincinnati.
They're also a rising star in basketball. Really good all-around package.
The ACC passed over Cincy once and I'm pretty sure they would do it again
The ACC would add neither of those schools because of academics
I dunno, we let Louisville in and they're far below everyone else in the league academically
You are right but they have far superior athletics all around than those two. That is why Louisville got an exemption from the academic standpoint. The school would have to have athletic teams that would be immediately competing for ACC championships in order for the ACC to consider adding them and I just don't think that is the case with those two.
Texas doesn't play well with others and the money doesn't get spread around very well.
I doubt any conference would go over 16 members. Thus, PAC-12 would add 4, SEC and B1G would add 2 each, and the ACC 1. That would leave one sad Big XII member all alone. (WVU?)
If regionality doesn't matter any more, then obviously Texas. If regionality does matter, then WVU is the only logical choice. The most realistic possibilities for the ACC are KU, Baylor, TCU, or WVU for various reasons.
not considering geography I'd like K-State. I think their football program is similar to ours. But a big part of me thinks that conferences should be regionally aligned. that being said, I like VTOrangeandMaroon's comment above where we would get some SEC schools. UT, KU, Vandy, and USCe could come into the ACC. But since that's not happening I just hope some schools end up joining the BIG XII or the NCAA allows for 10 teams to have 2 division of 5 and play a conference championship.
Take the Mountain Queers in a heartbeat. Then I'd say take an AAC team. Maybe Memphis or Uconn because of basketball, Memphis big market as well. Memphis has OK football, and although we're never going to add them, ECU has a p5 worthy football program
Or get ND to budge
And that is literally all they would potentially bring to the plate. They would add no tv sets to our broadcast package, their Olympic Sports packages are relatively crap, and their basketball program is downright turrible, arguably in a worse spot than ours ever was. They have a decent baseball program, but like their football program, would slide in right in the middle of the pack in the ACC.
ECU is a non-starter. They would add nothing of legitimate value to the ACC that we don't already have.
And then we fade away like the Big East...
Ask ND to become full-time, else kick them out and add two Big-12 teams instead of just one.
Make it full-time EQUAL member and then I'm okay with it.
Otherwise, wvu them.
Love that as a verb lol
Should have a GIF with LT going all 3rd-and-Logan on GIT with the flashing caption of "CHOO CHOO BITCHES"
I apologize for the drop in quality. My GIF editor is trademarked 1999...
EDIT: I realize this was UCLA, but this is the play I think of when someone says Thomas the Tank Engine. Starts his run at the 16, initial contact at the 20, basically continuous contact until he goes down at, what, the 42? choo choo indeed.
Haha nice! Wasn't GIT but i still like it! +1 to you, you glorious fucker.
Agreed - this is what I was implying, but probably should've been more specific.
Considering they are right off the Blue Ridge Mountains, I'll gladly take BMS Goats in a heartbeat!
Unfortunately, Geography makes this a strange problem. If you want 4 powerful conferences that geographically makes sense, than Pac 12 takes BYU, Boise, Texas Tech and one more. Big 10 takes the Oklahoma schools which gives you the Nebraska Oklahoma Rivalry back. SEC takes most of the rest, and the ACC takes a couple SEC East Teams, and probably West Virginia. It will never happen, but that is the only way this 4 powerful conferences can ever make geographical sense.
So in this scenario the Pac 12 has literally no reason to consider second teir G5 programs like Boise or BYU. They will lobby to get Texas, which probably means Baylor & Texas Tech go too which really leaves only one open spot. If Okie State doesn't go with Oklahoma into a mythical SEC situation, they probably manage to nab Kansas for bball or TCU because of the added games in Texas. THere is no reason the Pac12 would or should consider Boise, BYU etc.
The only way this makes sense for the Big 12 to break up is if the TV contracts expire at the same time and a few of their bigger schools bolt to another conference in a massive negotiating coup to land a huge deal. That only happens when the SEC or Pac12 or Big 10 deals are up for renewal. Otherwise you get a smaller cut of a set pie. When are those deals expiring? Texas or Oklahoma are the linchpins. If 1 of the two leaves the whole thing crumbles. If I'm the SEC I want OU. They have the proximity to Texas and the cache of great sports, without the gorilla feeling of being a rich bully to contend with like the Longhorn network. The ACC would make sense for Texas because they need a gorilla presence to match FSU.
Tuberville has an agenda. He wants Cincy in a P5 conference, plain and simple. Cincy doesn't have a shot at the college playoff in the AAC and he knows it.
They need P5 money and a higher calibur of athlete to elevate their team to a point where getting to the playoffs is in the cards.
Their athletics department is in massive dept. They need money to pay their bills.
http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/22381/
They spent a ton to elevate their program, got into the Big East when the Big East was a thing...but were left behind and now have big-boy expenses but not revenues. Whoops.
Their saving grace might be the Big 12 if they decide to expand to 12 teams.
uh.... didn't we hire someone from their Athletics Department recently?
Yes VT did. And hasn't that guy been splashing the cash around?
Cash we would not have had if not for the recently departed.
1. Notre Dame as a full member
2. Texas
2b. Kansas
This is the most realistic option. If shit really goes to hell you know Notre Dame is going to want a full spot which really only leaves the ACC with one spot to shop out. Texas is the obvious choice 1, but talk in Austin at least is them having far more affinity to the west coast and the Pac 12 than the east coast or SEC.
ND to the B1G would be a good fit except for the AAU issue and the history between the two. My guess is they stay independent until the last minute when it becomes obvious they would be left out, and then the ACC or even the AAC where they would have a bigger say and immediately be the big boy on the block; plus if you have an 8 con playoff the AAC would be easier to win than the ACC.
I think going from Independent to the AAC is a downgrade for them. They will join the ACC so they can have the ability to clinch a playoff spot
I don't know if we'll ever see an 8 conference playoff.
I think what will happen first is that the power conferences will swell to a point where the conference championships become de facto playoff games.
Notre Dame is already an ACC member for Basketball and all other sports. If they join a conference for football it will be the ACC.
Colin Cowherd not credible? Do you not remember his rant on Uva football?
He dropped Harbaugh today in an interview. It was great. I like Jim as a coach, but he is a total dick.
A friend of mine and I hate and love Harbaugh, respectively, for this exact reason.
nvm
The Longhorn Network makes me not want Texas at all.
LHN may not be long for this world.
Realistically Notre Dame gets a full entry for football since they're already there in every other sport.
This really only leaves the ACC with 1 spot to fill. I hate WVU and they add nothing, although they're the obvious geographic and rivalry choice (immediately gets to enjoy their rivalry games with; VT, Pitt, Louisville, as well as rejoining old Big East pals Miami & BC, also who can forget when they smoked Clemson by an absurd volume of points?) So as much as I hate to say it should be them, they probably have a good amount of appeal for a conference that hasn't tried to stretch its geographic boundary east/west.
Personally I'd love to see us take TCU. Would provide trips into Texas for recruiting (good for football and basketball), plus almost all of their teams have improved since joining the Big XII (baseball was a 1 seed this year).
I really don't want to see Kansas because the trip would be awful, and provide nothing from a recruiting perspective and that football team is so atrocious as to make Wake Forest look competent. So no.
Unless we can get Texas for their $$ maybe we could try and poach Kentucky from the SEC since their BBall would fit & provide a regional bonus to Louisville. As well their football program would probably instantly go from bottom rung to middle tier in the ACC.
Aside from the $$ in the TV deals, I could see Kentucky being interested in a move to the ACC. The SEC is adding nothing for them from a basketball standpoint, which is ultimately what they care about. And you are right they would compete in the ACC football wise, even though they would still be mid to bottom tier which is no different from where they are now.
It wouldn't add much for the ACC footprint, but really there arn't many SEC teams that would outside of Tenn.
If we take take any of the Big X?? schools do we get to drop Wake?
why would you want to drop Wake? They are such an easy win.
Actually, I have this statistical outlier that I'd like to use to base my entire counter-argument on.
True, all you really need is one score during regulation.
The two schools I would grant immediate acceptance to the ACC are the obvious ones, Texas and Oklahoma. Those two schools have storied athletic programs and would bring in huge TV markets with them. Personally I would prefer to see Oklahoma over Texas but it would be much better for the ACC to get Texas instead of Oklahoma.
Is "none of the above" a good answer?
I think ND comes in. They won't be able to stay independent with four power conferences and the playoff set up. Then I could see WVU, or possibly Cinnci. I know Cinnci isn't in the Big 12, but it makes regional sense to me. They are dedicated to improving their program.
for about as much as i dislike WVU and don't want anything good for them, it looks like they'd be the only team out of the B12 that would make sense for the ACC.
but since our Tobacco Road "overlords" are trying to maintain the prestige and status of the ACC, i'm content knowing that WVU won't fit their academic standards and won't go out of their way to lobby for WVU to join.
You say that like we have lower academic standards than UNC and we all know that isn't true.
Funny thing is that at the height of the last round of realignment, it looked like the ACC could end up breaking up, to the benefit of the Big 12.
During that time, I remember coming up with a 16 team league that was 8 teams in the Big 12 region, and 8 in the ACC region. I think I had something like the West with the 4 Texas schools, 2 OK schools, and 2 Kansas schools. (I figured Iowa State would fly to the Big Ten and get paired up with Iowa). The East would be FSU, Clemson (the two that were more linked to jumping ship), Miami (would come with FSU), VT, WVU, UVA...and I can't remember who the other two were.
It only really looked that way to deranged posters on WVU message boards who swore they all had #sources.
And its worth noting that all the speculation of the ACC being picked apart came from a WVU blogger who had every incentive in the world to hope for the ACC's disintegration because at that point, WVU was left on the outside looking in, having been rejected by everyone around them, namely the ACC.
This is an interesting article from Crimson and Cream Machine (OU's SB Nation blog) suggesting that if the Big XII broke up you could see Oklahoma going to the SEC and the SEC adding VT to fill up a 16 member conference. Tech going to the SEC predictions and rumors isn't news but it's interesting to see OU fans thinking it.
http://www.crimsonandcreammachine.com/2015/6/30/8875043/ou-headed-to-sec-rumors
That's big that OU thinks we're pretty. (Serious, not sarcastic. They do carry some weight!)
Lets get to the important stuff. Jennifer or Angie?
Not even close, Jennifer.
Edit: for people's work filters.
good thing i'm not at work. . .
NSFW. Take it down please.
Sorry about that, thought if it passed the firehouse filters then it would be fine.
Thanks for switching it.
Of course, it was the right call.
that's like choosing that crazy, adventurous girl (Angie) vs. the girl next door (Jennifer)
i'm all for the girl next door...
and remember, if you break up with the girl next door, she won't egg/toilet paper your house like the crazy xGF will
That and the fact Angie is crazy enough to have dated Bill Bob Thorton and had a vial of his blood around her neck.
Jennifer, Angie is too skinny for my tastes
This only serves to confirm my opinion that Brad Pitt is the most stupid man in the history of the world.
i would absolutely love that
Keep the ACC as is. It's an NCAA institution of 15 teams and is used for everything but football.
Top64 breaks off from NCAA (basically already have) and create 16 4 team pods. Add Boise, BYU and Notre Dame, ditch Vandy, Wake and Rutgers.
Vt plays in the Mid Atlantic with UMD, WVU and UVA. Play those 3 schools + 12 scheduled cross division teams (play 3 diff pods a year, 5 years you play everyone in the country). Start on Labor Day, finish by Christmas, 16 team playoff in January.
No more SEC, P12 TV deals. It's a semi professional league that funds all the other sports at a university.
To answer the question, who do I want, I'll start with Texas. They bring the biggest athletic department budget in the country and they're prestige. 2nd, and I will get blasted, but Kansas. Lets go ahead and solidify the BBall conference even more. but if we somehow got TX, I would do my damndest to get ND in full time, stop and 16 and count the $$$.
OK I'll give the Captain Obvious answer....Texas and Oklahoma
Personally I think WVU is a good addition. So many rivalries can return to life, and the WVU fans make games really fun. As other people have being saying, their academics is the only thing holding them back. Then again, who's to say they don't get better with a move to the ACC? It's safe to say that some schools standards change after joining a conference. I think if they take the necessary steps they could eventually become more strict with their admissions.
As someone specially said earlier, Kentucky in the ACC would be so exciting. I mean, it almost makes sense. Call me crazy, but I feel like we could switch places. They're a huge basketball school and we're a big football school. ACC = basketball conference, SEC = football conference. Obviously, there's a lot to consider here. I don't know much about conference regulations and how it all works, but I'm assuming the SEC would hate to lose Kentucky as they pretty much represent the SEC when it comes to basketball. If it didn't matter, I think it would be sweet to see us taking road trips to SEC territory every once in a while.
You've never been hit in the head with D-batteries or a bag of urine, have you?
I meant it in context as in they care a lot about their team. I love to beat them because it makes them angry. Teams like UNC, Duke, etc. just aren't the same when it comes to bragging rights.
Now that I can agree with. One of the best games I was at was 2004 WVU.
Welcome to TKP; look forward to having you here!
You wouldn't be saying that if you lived down here with us
Trust me, beating UNC NEVER gets old
Yeah, you're right about that from your perspective. Unlike Virginia, states such as NC and Texas have it awesome when it comes to in state games. The satisfaction of beating those rival teams..I'm sure it never gets old. Of course, UVa quite frankly doesn't even care if we beat them in football, as long as they keep racking up those "important swimming national championships", or "fencing".
Going back to what you were saying about the state rivalry, just the fact that Texas could form a conference out of just their state schools is extraordinary. Like you specifically mentioned, all those NC schools must be a blast to be around (especially basketball season). Sometimes I wish it was somewhat like that here in VA.
Not to be argumentative, but I can tell you that loluva does indeed care about losing to us in football. I know a whole bunch of those folks and while they are forced to accept the status quo, they rankle at it. Sure, they make noises like it doesn't matter, but I make those same noises about swimming, tennis, soccer and lax. I've said it before, be it tiddly winks or a rock fight, I don't like losing to those 'hoo?s, and I guarantee you, they don't like losing to us one little bit, regardless of the sport. I have been to their stadium many times and have seen it full, and if they ever get a decent coach in there, we'll see it full again. Hopefully, that day will never come, at least at our expense, but there's a lot of money in C'ville, and a fair share of frustrated football fans.
and a fair share of frustrated
footballzima fans.fixed it. everyone knows nobody at Cville can talk football.
'preciate that, fernley, but I am not worried about them talking. It's their money talking that keeps me wary. I worry that one of these days they'll blindly luck into a good coach and he'll have a few good years before the inevitable rot sets in...but perhaps I worry too much, eh? Seems a week doesn't go by that I don't hear someone say something about even the blind squirrel.....
Actually i agree with you.
In fact I posted a few weeks ago that I think they are going to make a splash hire and get a really big name, and competent coach once Timecop is gone. I say this based on zero evidence or sources. just my feeling. Then again it is Hooville and smart, logical decisions are few and far between when it comes to football. Maybe they'll keep Timecop around for 5 more years.
I'll trot out that famous "old saw" then. From your lips to God's ear. 5 more years...5 more years...5 more years!!!
Of course they'll make a splash hire and overpay for someone... its what they do. Al Groh was a massive splash hire when they got him, and look at how that turned out. He had NFL Head Coaching experience! And then they made the splash with London. He was arguably the hottest name in the lower division when they hired him. He was young and charismatic. The players love him. Look at how emotional he got with big wins, he cares so much for those kids, and it showed with Richmond's National Title....
LOLUVa's problem runs much deeper than head coaches. Sure, they can and will make a splash hire, but unless they do some very serious soul searching and go all in on football throughout the athletic department, its not going to matter. They quite literally have to relearn the wheel football-wise up there, and its something that is going to take a while to fix. Much longer than any of them realize, or are going to be willing to accept.
Or had a fan poop in one of your band members soda.
Sorry to disagree with your characterization of WVU fans. I understand your explanation below, but my experience in Morgantown, and elsewhere to boot, leads me to believe that some of those folks don't belong in a college football stadium, and that the powers that be at WVU seem to take no real steps to stop their rude/crude, and in some cases mean behavior. Hokies aren't the only ones that feel this way, but I'll never set foot in Morgantown again. I think it's more than their academics that holds them back.
Edit. This was supposed to be a reply to VPI up there about the fun WVU fans. Don't know how I got it down here.
Notre Dame and anybody but WVU or ECU would make the ACC a stout 16 team football conference. NEVER EVER want to be in the same conference with the cousins again. My first choice would be Baylor, but Cincy makes more geographic sense. Nobody in the SEC or B1G is going to bail off of those gravy train$, and the Big 12 is a long way away, other than the cousins. At least Texas is a state that touches the "Atlantic Coast" and Baylor is a rising star in that conference. TCU would work too, but Baylor has stronger basketball I believe.
Big picture wise, it all depends on whether the SEC wants to grow to 16 or not. Oklahoma would be a steal, and many of the other B12 schools would be happy to follow the Sooners to greener pastures. If the SEC goes to 16 teams by poaching the B12, look for pressure to come on the other 3 super conferences to follow suit quickly. Personally, I think nothing changes, except the B12 eventually grows to 12 teams with Cincy, Houston, BYU or Boise. In the meantime, it sure is fun to spectate and speculate.
Geographically, the only team that would make sense to join the ACC is West Virginia, as stated above. Personally, I would love to restart that rivalry. Tech has played them in basketball the last 3 years, 2 being in Morgantown, and Tech players haven't had batteries thrown at them, so maybe it's time to rekindle the fire (we'll find out for sure in 2017). Then again, it was much more of a football rivalry than basketball. I am really interested to see how the 2017 game goes, and if fans behave, I think the ACC should reach out to WVU. The football program is usually solid with the exception of the last few years (just like Tech), and the basketball team will always be very good under Bob Huggins.
That's only in a geographical sense though. If the ACC decided geography isn't that important, we might see teams like Kansas join. They would be a bottom feeder in football, but certainly a great addition in basketball.
It's crazy to think that a little over 11 years ago, Tech was a member of the Big East. Now we're talking about 4 major conferences and the Big East as it was in 2003 has been completely broken up. The BE was an incredible basketball conference, and not a terrible football conference, contrary to belief. Tech was always a solid program after 1993, Miami was the best team in college football from 2000-2002 (IMO), Pittsburgh always fielded a tough team, WVU beat the Hokies in 2002 and 2003 and shared the BE title in 2003, Syracuse had their good years, and even Boston College was a solid program. Think, if Tech, Miami, and BC had stayed and Louisville and USF still joined (USF rose to #2 in 2007), that would have been a better conference than the ACC was until Clemson and FSU took off.
I didn't mean to reminisce like that. It's just crazy to think about how times have changed.
If this rumor has any traction, then we may have to change schedules by 2017, and WVU may either play more of a role moving forward or not.
Sounds funny but geographically, WVU helps with ND. Always thought Cinncy would be the next in if the Big XII was still around, mainly to help with ND.
I forgot to mention how solid of a team Rutgers was in 2006.
If the Big 12 were to split, Texas is the obvious big prize. But could the ACC be attractive/proactive enough to lure them in? I think aTm would throw a fit if the SEC invited the Longhorns, and I think UT would obviously want to bring along a few other Texas schools. I see Texas going to the Pac 12, but the question is whether or not Oklahoma would move with Texas or go their own way. If the SEC can take Oklahoma and Okie State, I think Texas goes to the Pac 12 along with TCU, Baylor, and Texas Tech to bring them to 16. The B1G should then be looking at the state of Kansas: I think Kansas and KSU are a package deal, and a good one with a huge basketball addition in Kansas and a very good football addition in KSU. At that point, the only choices left for the ACC would be to poach an AAC team or go with WVU. Would that be enough to get ND to go all in?
This is of course a ton of speculation, but if this were to happen, I would love to see the ACC be aggressive and go after Texas. Or could we swoop in and steal PSU from the B1G? I think one of those would be huge along with ND getting fully onboard. WVU fits geographically and from a rivalry perspective, but it doesn't add much value from a revenue/academic perspective. I hope that isn't the scenario the ACC would be stuck with.
You could probably have ended your sentence there.