http://www.richmond.com/sports/college/football/article_c06228f6-c21b-50...
So it looks like this is where the questions to Foster came from. Looks like this story has life for a bit longer now.
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That adds a lot of fuel to the fire for this story. Fines for mismatched equipment/unsportsmanlike will be scrutinized pretty harshly nationwide. I don't understand why this was posted anywhere that a nonteam individual could see it.
FYI, "technically" improper equipment is actually a flag-able offense prior to the game.
It was a screw up.
This probably ensures that Bud isn't going anywhere for a while now. SCANDAL! Sarcasm or whatever.
Nice....so it was all in the plan....I like it.....
None of these things exist anymore as of last night, so yeah..It's a PR scandal not a legal one.
Nowhere does it say that these fines are from COA or bowl money. But both are allowed it seems. Sure, it's a negative, but every program has a discipline structure. Besides, these players receive a lot of money for the bowl games. Trust me. Being in the MVs, we received a ton of money for the bowl games. I remember getting $400 for a trip to the Sugar Bowl. I can only imagine how much they get considering how long the trip is for them, even though they have nearly all meals planned for them. Let's all calm down alright?
Man, Dave got SO mad at me when I posted the amount on FB right after we found out how much we'd get for the Sugar Bowl
Yeah, I thought about that, but I figured it provided some context to compare when considering how much the athletes might get.
Plus at this point that was 4 years ago so who cares? ...how the hell was that already four years ago?? Freshman who came into tech after I graduated are now seniors....
To be fair we got a lot less for the smaller bowls. If you don't count the clothes and other small items we got, I only broke even on the Russel Athletic, lost money on the Sun Bowl, and only came out $20ish positive on the military bowl. That being said the experiences were priceless.
PLEASE don't get me started. The fact that you guys fly to some bowl games now, and actually get freebies from the bowl? Arrrrrgh. We got per diem, I do remember that, but that was about it. Ever ridden in a bus from Blacksburg to Shreveport, La? No. No, of course you haven't. (It makes for some serious unit bonding, and some good stories years later, though.)
Drum Line, '83-'88
In fact, took a bus from Richmond to New Orleans. Apparently it was cheaper to bus us that year and give more per diem than to just fly us. And yes, good times were had by all.
Fair enough. But I think as destinations go, "New Orleans" >> "Shreveport" every day, and twice on New Year's. Our per diem was small, one way or the other, but then again, I'm talking about a trip in 1984. Where did 30 years go?
(And I didn't mention the percussion bus having a failed bathroom for the entire ride home. It gets right cold on a bus in late December when you're riding with the windows open on the interstate.)
Yes, yes, 1000x yes. Best trip I went on my during my tenure. Trips are fun no matter what though. Usually, the Tubas spread out during a lunch break and end up going into the other busses and do their business to make everyone else miserable for the remainder of the trip. Always follow the rule of the 3 P's while on the bus. No Pooping, No Puking, and No Perfumes.
yes, but you get to tell these kind of stories and claim the "walking barefoot in the snow to school, uphill both ways" award. You can't put a price on that.
It IS pretty awesome, not gonna lie. And when the drumline from that era gets together, if it's long enough, references to those couple bowl trips (bowl games EVERY year are for entitled p--sies, why when *I* was your age grumble grumble argh ack pfft) inevitably surface.
Think it was in '69, went by bus to the Liberty Bowl as a HT. As far as I recall, all we got was a box lunch and a paid for quick dinner at a diner downtown. I'll admit it though, cooked on a flat grill in a window, that was the absolute best steak I had eaten to that point in life, and still in my top 5 in memory. Didn't stay anywhere, just bussed back home after the game. I believe the upperclassmen let us sleep in next day, but it was so long ago I wouldn't bet on it.
Edit: Frank Beamer was in our defensive backfield for that bowl, his last game at VT, I think, and there was no drinking on the bus, to my knowledge. Can't swear some of the older cadets didn't have a surreptitious sip from a flask, but I don't remember it if they did. We sang dirty songs all the way there, slept like babies all the way home.
except for whoever decided to play EVERY SINGLE HARRY POTTER MOVE IN A ROW! (On the trumpet bus) To this day I still cant watch Harry Potter and I still want to throttle the one who killed my love of that series...
Wasn't trying to complain, merely trying make the point that most Bowls outside of the BCS Bowls aren't financially beneficial to band members. Also, the 2011 Sugar Bowl was my freshman year, so I was on a bus from NOVA (I'm from Maryland) to New Orleans. Literally had time to watch the extended versions of the Lord of the Rings trilogy on my laptop with time to spare to socialize on the way there.
Also took a bus to Miami.
In fact the only time I can recall flying during my time there was for an ACC Championship game in Tampa, and that was because classes were still in session and there wasn't time to bus everyone down and back.
No sweat - I was just taking advantage of the chance to tell you and the other kids to get off my lawn.
However, I have to ask: since we didn't have laptops and the like to kill the time, we spent it in the time-honored MV Way - drinking. Acting stupid may or may not have also played a role. Have you guys gotten too professional for those hijinks now? Please say it isn't so.
Well nowadays, busses have TVs and DVD players. So that helps to occupy the time. Occasionally you have a bus that has satellite TV which was great during bowl season to catch other games. And yes, drinking does occur on those busses, just not straight from kegs like we hear you old folks used to do.
VTDL Represent!
I marched 2008-2010
I agree student athletes will likely make some money off the trips and stipends. I worry more about the numbers where you see $1600 for multiple uniform violations. I could definitely see the click bait "Virginia Tech Fines Players Thousands of Dollars" thrown out there as it is sensational.
There are 12 games in the regular season. If you screw up your uniform 7 times, there's a problem with you, not the rules.
I 100% agree. I'm more worried about the national attention and people who won't actually read into the story. They just see uniform violation = $1000 dollar fine.
If you screw up 7 times there is certainly a problem with the individual; however, that does not mean, that there is not also a problem with the rules. This kind of $ for pushing the limits on your uniform?
We can all agree modifying your uniform is stupid when you're explicitly told not to, but these policies are far worse.
The uniform one is the only fine I see as 100% justified. Nike pays us big money to wear their clothes. If you want to keep getting big money, you should probably do what Nike wants.
But the players aren't getting big money, the school is. I have no issue with Tech being very aggressive at keeping players in line with this because it messes with the school's income. With that said I think you have to find other discipline than these relatively large fines for someone who is getting a free education, but not getting paid cash to cover said fines.
Pushing the limits? There should be recourse for not following the rules. No one player is above the team.
And the NCAA is explicit on their end of the rules too. Not adhering to it 7 times means that there is a huge problem with the player, not the rules. If you have to alter your uni because of a brace or some medical condition, there are provisions for that. But to just do it to be different because you feel like the rules don't apply to you, then don't join a team with those rules.
I think both of you missed the part where I said there is a problem with the individual. I whole-heartedly agree there should be recourse for not following the rules. Frankly if I was coaching and a kid had uniform issues more than once or twice I'd question whether we need him on the team.
That doesn't mean that type of fine is justified in my eyes.
preparation for the NFL isn't that what college football is all about anyways?? *sarcasm maybe
Orange Bowls were pretty good, too. About $250 for each of my 3 trips.
This is a real bad look.
How this wasn't shut down a while ago, how no VT lawyer realized this goes against NCAA rules etc. is beyond me.
I thought the point was that this is not against NCAA rules for bowl games, as those are perks. However, it is not a good idea to keep doing it. It is however against NCAA rules with regard to COA as that is now a part of scholarship. That said, it hadn't been implemented yet. Both are now shut down, so it is a PR issue, not a legal issue. Is that right?
From my understanding the non-bowl game fines are not allowed per the new NCAA rules around COA.
I forget where I read this but that's not entirely accurate apparently. They can "fine" in the sense that they can deduct from money to be paid to the student in the same way that if you get kicked off the team, you potentially lose your scholarship and/or have to pay for your current semester. It is legal IF it is documented ahead of time and the player is aware of it (i.e. it was in the agreement they signed). Just like you can't cancel a student athletes scholarship with some sort of process, you can't fine them just out of the blue. Apparently there are several other schools out there already who have already implemented this "fining" process for the current school year and are legally secure.
If it hasn't been implemented yet, then why was all that stuff listed on a monitor?
Unfortunately, that's wrong. 5 players had already been fined a total of $330
well, if it's a debit against their eventual bowl per-diem, then it hasn't been actualized yet
It would be against their $3000+ stipend that kicks in for the first time this semester.
That is not completely accurate.
It could be, but the TV does not say that nor does did Bud. He said they were "exploring" the option of using COA fees. This could have been the bowl game money or this could have been the COA. In actuality though, we do not know what it was from. Heck, the "players punished" could just have been an example of how it might work with the players. We don't have enough info to know for sure and never will.
Bitter restated this same point on 101.7 this afternoon - although he did point out that Bud did talk like it had been discussed as to maybe using COA money.
It hasn't been 24 hours and it already feels like beating a dead horse
Inside scoop as an athletic academic advisor speaking.. this is nothing new, expect more and more to be reported on this stuff by schools. We have a similar process going on where I work, might not be out for the media to see but its in every handbook the athlete signs once he/she gets on campus.
If a athlete misses tutoring.. that athlete better be ready to pay for that.
Misses breakfeast -> it's free food wtf are you doing
Misses Treatment-> not only are you hurting yourself you're wasting the trainer/therapists time
Acts a fool in study hall-> biggest & easiest way to screw yourself.. babysitting will not happen here
In regards to equipment its more like sponsored by nike.. better not see you wearing adidas cleats on the practice field or better not see you black out the nike logo so you're cleats are all black.. #BrandAwareness matters.. Want a sleeveless nike dri fit don't cut the long sleeved one , ask for a short sleeved one-> it will be provided.
People are making this out to be a big deal.
Maybe because it is.
honestly to me its not a big deal.. but I guess that's because I work for an NCAA school and we have a similar discipline program.. and it makes sense once you put the reasons/facts down on the table.
Possibly against NCAA rules.
Not a good look for the program.
Negative recruiting fodder.
Kind of seems like a big deal.
stop, hammertime
I LOLed
Seems it's not actually against NCAA rules
https://web1.ncaa.org/LSDBi/exec/bylawSearch?bylawSearchSubmit=Get%20Sel...
so it would seem that as long as the student agreed to do all those things for which the failure to do merits fines, then the fines are acceptable. Sounds like extra incentive for the student-athletes to live up to their word. Call me crazy, but I'm fine with that
NCAA Rules- schools are allowed to discipline..there's a huge handbook as to what's allowed and I can go into more detail if you want, fining players for certain things are allowed.
Every program has discipline rules, might not be $.. here we have a Breakfast Club-> 6-am meet up time
Negative recruiting fodder- for people not aware of the recruiting process its easy to say this, however this is a non factor. Every college has an athletic policy manual and its one of the first things that's gone over with every prospective recruit.
here's a screenshot/picture from our Recruiting Pamphlet/online catalog
I mean, if you really want to get into negative recruiting fodder, we should tell our recruits that you are banned from all athletic related activities if you are charged with a felony until it is resolved. At FSU, you can just keep practicing and even playing until the verdict is reached. Talk about negative recruiting potential! /s
This is all silly. Yes, some of them, such as a clean room, look ridiculous, but just behave and you won't have a problem.
More I think about it, the bigger a deal I think it is. Not from an NCAA/Football standpoint, but from an ethical standpoint.
Thats how I feel about this.
I am not sure the extent and benchmarks of punishment for all that was listed here, before the stipend. But addressing it immediately via monetary punishments is not what I'd expect to be the first reaction from VT administration. I feel like monetary punishment, to people who have very little money, is flat out shitty.
If the kid is that much trouble, consistently, kick him off the damn team and allow them no stipend. Not a fan of the stepwise fine plan. Fan of Whit, and his quick halt of this.
Any idea where this originated from?
I see what you're saying about the uniforms and equipment. Thanks for clearing that up. I think this will be a decently sized deal until it's discovered other schools do this as well.
Hopefully this doesn't get overblown coverage. Someone sweep it under the rug right now!
I can't believe that Rolling Stone isn't all over this.
Probably because they can't twist it into a feminist cause
Is being against sexual assault a feminist cause?
Let's not go down this rabbit hole guys.
Let's play football. Let that distract us.
How in the world will we be able to focus on all the scandals with all the on-field issues that will start up in a week?
Welp..
Not a good look at all, and, really... Beamer should be the one answering to this, not Bud and not Whit.
If I was a kid being recruited by VT, this kind of thing, with photographic evidence, would have me seriously reconsidering my desire to play there. $100 for the wrong color undergarments? My god, this makes us look so disconnected from reality its nauseating.
More like $100 dollars for that long sleeved nike dri fit that you cut to short sleeved without permission.. all the athlete has to do is go to equip manager and go hey you got this in a short sleeved/sleeveless. Bamm 2 seconds later they have it.
The color has nothing to do with the fine, the equipment manager makes sure every athlete has the same color..
Finally caught up and saw this episode. Totally lost my shit laughing because it's even better with sound and in the context of the preceding 5 minutes.
Yep... Already making its national media rounds
Apparently, 5 players had already been fined according to this system this year, per the RTD.
We're now the national villains in the pay for play model, and will be used as the primary evidence behind the eventual lawsuits that will be coming.
And really, its so fucking stupid our coaches did this. In this environment this was the last fucking thing we needed.
And it doesn't matter what WE think about it.
The fact that its all over the national media is bad for Virginia Tech football recruiting.
Maybe it brings the issue to light, and recruits will ask what other schools use as punishment.
Honestly, I don't know the answer, but maybe we aren't out of line. Maybe we are. (But I don't see them as being oppressive or overly burdening to a student. Do the right thing and nothing happens!!!!!)
again.. it has 0 effect on VT recruiting..
If you are an athlete and are being recruited the athletic handbook is the 1st thing you get/receive.. It has everything covered in there and if you have questions you can ask.. it has all the fines, -> approved by the NCAA and rules you must follow if you want to represent the University or College. If you can't meet them then you probably shouldn't be playing athletics in college because they're pretty easy to follow and are very similar school to school
Just because we still get decent classes doesn't mean it has no effect on recruiting. We have been in lots of Top 5's before for high profile kids who go elsewhere, and I'm sure this kind of thing plays a part in it, especially if they are recruiting against programs that don't do this.
key phrase "programs that don't do this." You would be shocked at how many programs do this/have a fine policy in place.
kid's don't come to VT for many reasons.. a fining policy is not one of them and if so then I would be worried about that kid.
What are you basing this on?
And yet they're not being publicly burned at the stake for it.
You can claim its not a big deal all you want. This is a major talking point on every major sports news outlet right now and we're being painted as the villain. This is BAD. That whole Gameday in Lane before the Ohio State game. One guess on what they'll focus on when talking about us.
Yeah, this isn't impacting our recruiting.... Keep thinking that
Your tone is making this seem very confrontational here. I realized some of us are worried about this but we're all on the same side.
Not trying to be confrontational. Just that pissed off that our coaching staff could be this stupid to allow this to happen.
This is a PR nightmare that we absolutely do not need. You do not want the bullseye on your back when you're trying to attempt a rebuild.
I get that we're all charged up and ready for football but I'd suggest taking deep breath and stepping away from the topic. It's more than clear that you think this is a huge issue so it's not necessary to continue being aggressive and mashing the panic button.
I am shocked that something like this dealing with any kind of money wasn't on whit's radar.
He is still upset about One Direction.
did you go through the recruiting process at a Div 1 school??? Did you get a athletic guideline?? I would love to kno
the only reason we're being burned for it is because Bud answered the ?.. Had it been OSU or WVU or ECU they would have gotten burned. its unfortunate but for a kid being recruited this won't be of much surprise because they get every single athletic guideline handbook from every school that is recruiting them..
Once you commit you have to read it and sign it-> yeah kids don't read the whole thing but the key points like fines and punishments are gone over 1000 times in person voice to voice so there are 0 questions when they get in trouble.
VT not being in the ACC title game is affecting our recruitment, losing to Wake affects our recruitment, uncertainty of how long Beamer is around hurts our recruitment, un-attractive offense hurts our recruitment
An athletic handbook with fine/punishment policy that is given to athlete during recruitment and then signed by athlete once he commits and steps on campus isn't hurting recruiting.
I would have to think an opposing coach saying something along the lines of "you know VT fines their players, and we don't" would probably be detrimental.. especially seeing as how there was some truth to it
I would then open up that athletic handbook and go to the Disciplinary Action for Student-Athletes page and read it.. 90% sure there will be a fine chart there.
The handbook won't hurt recruiting, these photos will.
This makes is much more tangible. And ridiculous.
Ding ding ding.
well better not let anyone see this, sure looks like a fine/charge to me..
The tutors are paid, right? And if you miss your tutor appt unexcused, I don't have a problem asking you to pay for it. That's a different matter than not having the right "undergarments" on for pregame. Or $50 for a dirty locker.
You're paying for the breakfast anyway, kids don't need to repay that. You need kids to go to class so they are eligible, but you can't fine them. But if you pay a tutor specifically to help a kid and he doesn't show, I don't have a problem with requiring a reimbursement.
getting fined for wearing the wrong undergarments. What is this, the mormon church? DUCKS
I get your points.
For the undergarment issue its not the wrong color or you didn't wear it. Its the blacking out the nike sign so you have all black cleats, or cutting the long sleeved dri fit without permission, its the you wore a game day jersey out and about and someone caught you.
For meals- yeah its paid for up front, but that's not the issue why aren't you eating and creating chemistry with your brothers. whats so good that you had to miss a meal from VT which has the best god damn food service for colleges??
Its all about being a team member/player- if your missing meals, missing class, missing treatment you're not acting like a Div 1 athlete who is being provided with a "free education" and given an unbelievable amount of support to succeed.
Hey - if it takes a fine so we don't have our kids on the sideline looking like that slob Belichick, then I'm all for it. /s
The largest fine I see in this is 10 bucks.
This doesn't look so bad...
$100, $200.....$1600.00?
It looks pretty bad.
I respect your opinion but I find it really, really hard to believe that this has ZERO negative impact on recruiting.
With a little searching I can pull more fine sheets from other schools if that would help?
Trust me I have worked for 2 NCAA schools in the academic athletic department- both schools have a fine chart, both schools charts looks eerily similar to me.
The biggest issue I have is that this was out in the public to see.. it should never be on a tv screen ever ever ever.. because it leads to this mess. people only see the $ and not the LOGIC behind it.
Yeah, I don't think you can say that at all.
All of those things may be true, but I guarantee this will be used against us. The coaches may lie and spin it but the fact that VT is the one that got 'caught' and is in the news does not bode well.
it will be used against us.. then the kid will get his athletic handbook go through it, read it and then say hey this is the same thing they said they didn't do.. but I see a $10 dollar fine for missing tutoring-> the athletic academic office pays for you to have that.. if you don't show you will be held responsible especially if you are required to go to tutoring.
It might not be to the extent that VT has it but it will be very similar
Oh if only that were true. I appreciate the optimism, but as optimistic as I tend to be even I know most of these kids arn't reading the handbook. They are going to listen to whatever they are told. And unfortunately, the moment they are told we fine players, they will cross us off the list. Whether we do or we don't.
I get your point word of mouth is important.. but if I tell you to jump off a bridge are you going to do it or will you use common sense?
The difference being that kids don't want to jump off a bridge...and kids also don't want to get fined. People are more likely to believe you when you tell them what they want to hear, whether its true or not. The "jump off the bridge" comparison is nonsense.
Well the that's not the schools issue then.
If a kid doesn't want to get fined then listen and abide by the rules. Is it that hard to expect a kid to go to class, go to training, tutoring and meetings all while getting a "free" education?
I'm going to go with "yes".
Wait until they get to the part in the book that says its a $1600.00 fine.
How could the coaches even let a player get to that point? Don't you suspend or kick a kid off the team after he has already been fined 5 times?
The total fine amount, by the time they get to a $1600.00 fine is $3900.00
I am just really disappointed in Beamer and the coaches for letting this happen. The fact that Whit Babcock didn't know about it, really made this look even worse.
A. You can't just kick a kid off the team because of those issues. There are NCAA rules that need to be followed. And Tech is following them.
B. See above. Why are you disappointed in Beamer and the rest of the coaches "for letting this happen"? It's a standard practice. And you disappointed in all NCAA institutions for this practice?
C. Whit did know, and was doing damage control. Read some more in this thread and in a few others. The AD was not in the dark. Frank has run a clean program, and will continue to do so.
It will be used against us, but the kids that are so worried about losing money or being fined will be going to another school anyways that has a higher COA if the money is that important to them, in my opinion.
Those types of players aren't comparing COA's, they're comparing bags of dollar bills.
Its a PR mess. When is the last time anyone read that iTunes agreement. How many kids read that handbook? 3%. This is the age of social media and fast news, rumors first and facts later. All it takes is kids hearing this on ESPN and those VT letters go right in the trash. 5 star kids want to be fawned over not fined.
Maybe we're all just overreacting. Maybe the staff gives everyone $1500 per year in monopoly money and whatever you have left at the end of the year is exchanged as gag gifts!
Even if it's not monopoly money I think that's a distinct likelihood.
I don't know. Fining a player $50 for a dirty dorm? That's a little too controlling
Well I realize we are all in hyper-speculation mode, I have to imagine that the majority of the objective fines are loosely governed. Like I'm guessing a dorm would have to be really dirty to get a fine. And whoever judges these things would probably give them a warning or heads-up.
Obviously you've never been through a Corps Room Inspection if you think "keep your room clean" is too controlling.
$50 vs Marching Tours? I'll pay the $50 and sleep in, thank you very much.
I shit you not, I once had the option of giving blood (which I hate) or doing the marching bullshit (which I also hate). The Corps literally sucked the life out of me. And on top of that, after giving blood, I basically sprinted to the head, passed out, hit my head, and got concussed. Still better than RDS at 6 am on a Saturday.
Me right now:
Time to get Olivia Pope on the phone.
Um, if you have her number, can you send it my way too...please.
Like I said in the other thread...
Just when I thought we might be turning the corner and getting the program back to a strong, competitive level, this happens... Not good.
That looks awful.
Maybe it is a good thing that this was revealed now instead of way into the season or a couple of seasons down the road.
Yea, it was halted before people lost part of their stipends to it.
So the timing was at least good.
Joe--> Quick Question.. wonder if it would be relevant/helpful for the community do a Q&A for the website users on the athletic recruiting/policies/any other random?'s people would have regarding day to day life for the athletes?
I wouldn't mind answering some questions/opinions people would have as long as it doesn't get into to much detail with names and colleges ect ect.
would people be interested in this or am I crazy?
YES! Maybe an interview with someone from the compliance office at VT also.
This doesn't even look good for Whit. How is this up at all? And it's up for the media to see? And Whit hasn't seen it? Or he saw it and didn't react to it?
And where the hell is Frank Beamer?
Wisky. Tango. Foxtrot.
I bet all the money in my bank account that Whit was aware of this.
You can fine me if I'm wrong :)
Yeah, at this point, Whit either was aware of it and just lied or he had no idea what was up on the monitors in Merryman. Neither is a good look.
I can believe Whit had no idea about it.
Particularly given the speed with which he "nipped it in the Bud".
I can't. But if he didn't and Beamer knew about this and it was never brought to his attention then that's a huge problem.
What Whit did was damage control. If he came out and said yeah I know about this and approved it that would be worse than his "I nipped it in the but" comment.
Foxtrot, Uniform, Charlie, Kilo !!
And they thought this fine system would be a better look?
Schools with fining systems right now:
Can football start already?
That destroy all the evidence gif is hilarious.
yeah I can't stop laughing. that guy is in for a bad bad time.
Geez...fines for being disruptive in class? Do we really have to resort to babying people that much? I mean honestly, if you're in college and you can't at least sit quietly and not be a class clown, seriously just gtfo. The coddling here is just ridiculous. And this is not a good look at all. Why in the blue hell would you have something like this on display in a public area? And who approved this? Did Whit know, or was the whole football team just going rogue here? Unbelievable, and I'm pretty disappointed.
Besides Beamer and Foster and Whit....this really reflects poorly on John Ballein.
His job is to take care of this stuff.
So this should go away by next Thursday at the latest. I'm sure it dies there. Crap should be Monday since it will officially be game week. Woot Woot!!
ESPN Game Day will be in Blacksburg in 11 days. I guarantee you this will be a big topic of conversation when discussing us, if not the main topic.
I guarantee our defense will be the main topic of conversation when discussing us
End of the day, this is what I care about. If it's fines, 6am workouts, dunce-cap, whatever. You break the rules, you have a punishment. You submit to the authority of your coaches and you don't have to worry about the discipline structure they've put in place.
We really need to stop pretending these players and recruits are made of glass. So they lose a few hundred bucks for bonehead decisions. Having some Damn accountability for your actions isn't so bad.
The issue (at least from the media perspective, which is where this will really matter), how do you justify fining someone for money that they arn't even making for playing the sport? This isn't the NFL (...the NCAA continues to pretend...).
But if a kid doesn't get paid to suit up to play, how can you possibly fine him monetarily if his uniform isn't spot on? In the NFL this happens because the teams and league have lucrative deals with suppliers that they then use to help pay contracts. In the NCAA, the players see none of this benefit.
The issue is not accountability (which everyone needs). The issue is this is going to get spun in several ways, and NONE of them will end with VT looking good from a recruiting perspective.
So what you're saying is rather than charging them money, you'd rather them say "okay, you don't get the team backpack, warmups, shoes, hats, socks, jackets, etc. that they already get for free as part of that uniform contract deal?
Or, I don't know, cut their playing time for mistakes rather than issuing fines.
If we're concerned about losing out on top end recruits, this is not a better solution than the one they attempted.
NCAA schools have just as lucrative deals (relative to their budgets). Just like when a player screws up and permanently or temporarily loses their scholarship, now since the schools are paying them several grand in stipends, they are in danger of losing portions of that as well. I think the biggest confusion with all of this is that schools can't (and aren't) fining students out of their pockets, they are saying "if you screw up, you risk forfeiting all or part of your stipend, if you REALLY screw up, you lose your scholarship too"
What is the fuss? Be a standup student, a hard-working athlete and you're fine. Those are the kind of kids who play for our program anyway.
In regards to recruiting, no need to worry or get worked up over something that hasn't even happened yet.
The fuss is that there is already a media frenzy over whether student-athletes are being fairly compensated, given the "big business" of college football where coaches are making $ millions.
This was a PR cock-up, and the coaches should have known better. I'm sure it carried over from a prior system with good intent, and discipline is definitely needed, but you can't get any of that mixed up with stipends.
I agree that there shouldn't be a fuss. But, media. So there is.
I think that the fact that Whit has ended the chance of this policy being implemented is being overlooked. It ain't happening here, folks. Apparently, Cincy is still implementing it. I'm sure there are others that have similar policies as well. If we aren't doing it, what's the big deal? We've corrected the issue.
Just because we stopped doing it doesn't take away from the fact that we were doing it for years. People are going to want to talk about that.
Wait, where was it reported that we were doing it for years?
http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-blog/dp-teel-time-babcock-vt-fines...
That's a link to a David Teel article.
Several people have mentioned the story about Aaron Rouse being fined in 2006 for unsportsmanlike conduct.
My understanding here is that players have been being fined for various things throughout the course of the season and the money taken out of bowl stipends. Somebody correct me here if I'm wrong.
I thought they were only being doled out for the most egregious personal foul penalties. Rouse got it for essentially intentionally hurting the Duke QB in that game on two extremely late hits. It's my understanding that usually personal fouls result in 6 ams and conditioning. Although, the way it's being discussed it certainly seems as though it's been used to discipline for other offenses as well. They've been doing it for years. Not sure how anyone who's been a fan for over 5 years or so wouldn't have been aware of it. In either case, nobody has ever complained about it before that I've ever heard- player, fan, or media. The bowl game has always been seen as a reward and they get everything paid for and receive gifts and souvenirs. The per diem is essentially for extra stuff at night outside of team activities. That makes some sense- if you don't behave, you don't get to have fun on our dime.
Offseason please go.
I would upvote this as many times as there were turkeys at my workplace this morning if I could. Maybe more. Best comment on this thread.
What I don't get... How are the kids playing these fines? Bowl stipends? I mean excuse my ignorance, but I didn't think the stipends were enough to cover some of these charges. I mean you're looking at a $300 find for 2 uniform violations. Have a messy dorm 3 times a year and that's $150. Have a messy locker on to of that, another $150. Unless these kids are getting thousands in bowl stipends, where does the money come from?
If the answer at all is that they have to pay out of pocket, that's absurd. These kids aren't allowed by NCAA guidelines to get paid while in school, so even a simple fine could be disproportionately severe. And this also gives the pay for play movement a legitimate leg to stand on because now we have physical evidence these kids are already being fined real money for mishaps while they are here, and if that's going to happen, we have to allow them to earn money to cover costs.
Just bad all around. Very disappointed in our football staff today.
http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-blog/dp-teel-time-acc-cost-of-atte...
Is that already in place this year? I thought that was going in next year
Nope, that was this year so the athletes should have gotten their first payout within the past several weeks.
Ugh
Those funds are there to specifically help these kids pay for what isn't covered in their scholarship, so to try and even think it's appropriate to dip into that just seems ridiculously disconnected from the intentions of the stipend program at hand.
How this ever got approved is beyond me. The fact we finally give these kids a little financial breathing room while they are on campus and immediately or coaches were looking into ways to talk into those funds just seems... It's troubling, really. Did they not pay attention to the intentions of this movement at all?
The fines are not new. They've been around since before the COA was in place. It's in a story from 2006 that Aaron Rouse was fined $100 for a personal foul he committed. I'm sure it's subjective. If you're given a facemask penalty, no fine. If you are given a late hit for intentionally going after a player, you're punished. Seriously, everybody just needs to calm down about this. It's being blown up way beyond where it needs to be.
If that's the case, it's pretty crappy that Rouse was fined in 2006.
I'm incredibly disappointed to hear that our go to for disciplinary actions in the past were to monetarily fine kids who were prevented by the NCAA to earn money to pay it off. We should be better than that.
If they are given a bowl stipend, and all general living expenses are provided for, how do they not have money? UVA players must have to pay in just to live, forget punishments.
"Those funds are there to specifically help these kids pay for what isn't covered in their scholarship"
You mean $150.00 for a messy dorm room is not a normal expense that would be covered under the scholarship?
Its kind of ridiculous.
Make them run, make them get up early.....punish them on the field, not in the wallet
The total in fines for 7 "improper garment" offenses is $3800 - so, I'm not sure where the extra money would come from, if a player was actually defiant or super careless.
It's not 100% clear to me whether the penalties are additive or cumulative. If the former, then they're losing tickets to 15 games - that's 2.5 years (assuming they only get tickets to home games), which seems really crazy. I figured it was a "total bill" of sorts, but then too, that doesn't make sense if it also involves tickets to "next X games..."
I have no idea. Poor implementation all around.
Yea, probably not the most thorough thought process on this system, the projection on the tv, and the divulgence to the media.
A couple of instant classic burns on this thread. Well done everyone.
Looks like we also picked up a NerdMagic. Also nicely done, you beautiful disaster, you.
This doesn't look good. Expect this to be part of the Bud Foster mythology going forward. Too bad.
Someone upthread suggested an AMA with the compliance office. Like +1. Might mitigate some PR for Whit. Would certainly be informative.
Does anybody think these images wouldn't have been released if Bud hadn't slipped up in his question? I think we'd be having the same conversation today without Bud as the scapegoat, honestly. Once the media gets their hands on a picture like this, it doesn't matter what anybody says.
I believe that the media saw those monitors and that is what triggered the line of questioning to Bud.
I agree, but I'm saying even if they hadn't questioned Bud, or had he responded... better... we'd still be seeing this and getting the backlash, as ridiculous as I think it is.
I could see them having this as ammo almost (maybe poor phrasing?) and getting Bud on the spot. It was definitely an odd time to ask a question like that. Also, I have no issue with Bud being honest. I prefer that to lies, cover ups, and even worse outcomes. While this hurts now, the band aid is ripped off and we can start moving past it.
Thanks for the shoutout horse!
Wait... so in the SEC bagmen pay athletes under the table.
At VT we fine athletes under the table.
And we wonder why we can't sign 5-stars?
Why does it seem like very few of us are surprised by this and that I don't find the fines excessive?
This just seems piddly to me.
Is it due to a military stint that this stuff seems well below my radar?
Much ado about nothing.
Right idea, dare I even say Coach trying to instill the "Beamer Way". But...wrong method, especially in today's NCAA climate. The coaches make a lot of money and have to get creative in how they teach discipline, accountability and toughness to players nowadays, with the ever growing "blame someone else culture" we live in this was a lack of general forward thinking on their part. Anything and Everything in this country can be put under a microscope quicker than you can hit delete.
Having said all that, for the love of God, if this is all that people have to attack Frank on and this ends up being his big perception black eye, then I will take that allllllll g-damn day for him, the rest of the coaches, and our program!
I haven't seen it yet, but I swear if I see some combination of the words "fine" and "gate"....
Good ole gobblercountry already has two articles up featuring it!
If I didn't see it then it doesn't exist!
Points for using IT Crowd and not using "Have you tried turning it off and back on again?" Speaking of which, have we tried that with that tv screen? Maybe there's some part of the image missing like "check out UVa's idea for making football a revenue sport!"
The only thing that I find disturbing about these fines is that the coaches are allowing a player to wantonly commit the same offense EIGHT times and not be kicked off the team.
You don't kick players off of your team for uniform violations
I think 97VT540's point is that if a player comes from a family of means, $80 might not be that much to him, so he could repeat the same minor offense 8 times for virtually no loss.
This might be semantics, but the penalty for 7 uniform violations was $1,600. The penalty for 8 violations is missing the bowl game entirely.
I get your point - but like I said in this post, a $10 fine to Antone Exum wouldn't mean much. A $10 fine to Darren Evens may have meant he couldn't afford diapers for his baby.
Our coaches are humans and have hearts. Do you really think they'd take money from someone if every dime they had was going to supporting a child? Hell, we had a coach in the delivery room when his daughter was born. Poor choice of example really. These "fines" are meant to teach a lesson, not make your life miserable. Don't you think players would have complained about it before now if there was actually an issue with them?
They may have complained about it in the past, just not publically...
I don't understand why our coaches have to hit someone's wallet (an amateur athlete no less). There are hundreds of ways to punish a player without touching his wallet. I am yet to hear one good reason why money should be the disciplinarian tool of choice. I'm all ears.
Because what is more powerful to motivate someone than to take something that they value highly and may not have loads of? Conditioning is miserable, but it's only miserable in the moment. Losing cash can mean that instead of taking your girl out to dinner on Friday night, you have to explain how you skipped class and were late to study hall and so you can't give her the nice dinner you planned. It hurts more in the long run which can correct behavior quicker. Remember how Bucky talked about the punishment he said he'd receive for the personal foul in the anOSU game for dancing in the endzone? He said that "it was worth the punishment." Well if he was also losing $100 (I have no idea if he did or didn't), then maybe he wouldn't have found it as "worth the punishment" if he was also struggling for money.
It's also how the world outside of the athletic complex works. Want to speed? Get a fine. Want to be late with a payment? Pay a fee. Want to work? Pay taxes.
The thing I don't understand is that people are complaining about taking money from the players, but looking at the rules, the only one that seems a little bit ridiculous is the clean room. Wear your uniform properly, be prompt to appointments, remember that you're a student first, respect the game and your opponents...they are all skills and traits that should be instilled in these young men to make them productive members of society. Perhaps rules like this are why you don't hear of as many disciplinary and legal issues from our athletes. Sure, there's about one a year, but not in the amount that you see at FSU or many other places. Our coaches are trying to be father-like figures to these young men and give them values to carry with them in life beyond their 3, 4, 5, or 6 years at VT. Just follow the rules, which are quite simple, and meet the expectations that you signed in agreement to and you will never lose a dime.
I put this in another thread on this, but will copy it here...
Before anyone gets carried away with hypotheticals, does anyone know how much we have actually fined players? I mean has the season total been in the 5 figures, or has it been under $1000 TOTAL. I would venture a guess it's on the lower side, as it should be, with the "rules of engagement" set forth up front. The infractions aren't things that are simply made up and can be used against someone willy nilly.
We have an equipment department, so there should be close to zero fines in that department. There's no excuse. The tutor thing shouldn't be an issue, and missing classes happens here and there, but in the day and age of twitter and easy access via mobile devices, stuff gets reported quickly and easily. Again, I can't see the team rolling up a huge amount of fines, which means the rules are in place to keep things in line and it's working.
Reports are 5 players had already been fined a total of $330 this season. Who knows what the violations were.
It was seven guys for $360. Mostly for missed meetings. A couple unsportsmanlike conduct penalties.
Interesting. Reports I was reading said only 5 for $330 and neglected to show the picture of that screen, I assume because they didn't want to show their names. You saw it though first-hand though so I'll take your word. The unsportsmanlike conduct ones though explain why it's already above $300. Must have been practice related.
There were five players for $330 on one screen. The slide after it showed another two for $30.
Have you had an opportunity to ask any of the players their thoughts on the fine system? I feel like that's an important perspective that's lacking in the conversations right now.
Players haven't been available since this blew up into a huge deal. (It was already scheduled that way.) Won't talk to anyone until Monday at the press conference. I'm fairly certain they'll be trained not to answer anything about it.
Yea, they should defer to Whit.
No good is going to come from this topic, as player compensation just happens to be "topic du jour" for the media. (No offense intended.)
Any statements made will be twisted to suit the narrative.
I don't see this as being truly egregious. Missed meetings at the beginning of the year arent good.
Maybe I'm weird, but in that we are supplying room and board through scholarship, it seems pretty straightforward to treat a dorm with just a bit of respect. Take this out of the fine system, and I don't mind this as a conditioning punishment or something like that in extreme cases of a disgusting dorm.
All these jackasses out there cracking jokes about this list, and a lot of them are throwing rocks from glass houses. Beamer and Foster have always been 100% clear they are teaching boys to grow and become men first and foremost. The fact is, all the items on that board are about a certain mentality - respect and responsibility. Now that the fine system is gone, I for one hope they take this board and list a whole different type of permissible repercussions for what seem to be straightforward rules.
We have had our issues, but have run a very clean program in comparison to others for a long time. If this was one piece of the reason for that, I hope it stays in a different form.
That last thing is something our players are unable to do based on NCAA rules. That's one of the main issues here.
This is incorrect. The NCAA allows student-athletes to obtain jobs, but they do limit the income to $2000 above the value of the full grant. So now with COA exceeding $3000, it simply does not make sense for an athlete to get a job because COA pays more than they would have been allowed. The information is available from, e.g. Stanford and GT's compliance sites, but that's just quick Google searching.
Aren't you not allowed to have a job in season?
You can; see Choppin's post below. I don't know how anyone would find time to have a job, but the NCAA isn't telling you that you can't have one.
Or you can just make them clean the bathrooms on Friday night and accomplish the same purpose. I would gladly pay $100 to avoid cleaning Wyatt Teller's post-taco bell bathroom stall. That would teach me a fucking lesson!
There's something very wrong to me about a program, who prevents its participants not just from being paid, but prevents them from having a job, and then enforces monetary punishment. In the scope of big business college athletics, this just adds to the hypocrisy. Looks like we just fundamentally disagree here - I just think taking money from an individual who can't work or earn money is wrong.
If coaches were getting flak for making players do 6 AM workouts, how can they, in essence, detain the athletes to make them clean the bathroom? Certain punishments are not allowed due to NCAA regulating how much time can be spent for certain activities. This is one they felt was supported by NCAA legislature and the financial aid agreement that would allow them to stay in line. They are not prevented from having jobs though. Yes, they are prevented from having one during the season, but they wouldn't have time for one anyway. They can have one during the summer though as long as they go through the proper procedures and paperwork to ensure they are being paid an accurate amount for the work performed. Many don't want to deal with that hassle and instead want to train to be a higher draft pick and make more later. So they workout, train with the team, and get some classes out of the way to graduate early.
I love Beamer and the rest of the coaching staff but this is unacceptable. Don't try to tell me it isn't. A lot of these kids would not go to college without an athletic scholarship. You're going to take some of that away from them for being late to a team meal or not wearing acceptable equipment? Punish them by running, less playing time, or suspension. Don't take away money from these kids though.
Alright, ladies and gents. Let's talk about this with respect to a similar situation. I went to Tech on a Navy ROTC scholarship (thanks to all of you wonderful taxpayers for buying me a $100,000 Political Science degree). When I accepted the scholarship, I signed a contract outlining my responsibilities as a midshipman. In exchange for money, I agreed to uphold my end. Now, my sophomore year, I dicked around a little bit, and my grades in Physics 2305 got me in a bit of trouble. As a result, the Navy withheld $700 dollars worth of stipend money. Was the Navy the bad guy, taking money from a poor college student, or was I to blame because I didn't meet my obligations under the agreement which I acknowledged and signed?
Were you allowed to have a job outside of school, whether or not you actually took one.
I don't know about jobs, we'll need a Corps alum on that one. Freshmen in the Corps can only apply to a single club. I think the thought of a job would be outrageous. I've never met a Corps member who held a job while in college but that is a very small sample size.
My roommate worked at the Burger King across from Monteith for a while. It took a pretty big toll. Classes, the Corps, the band, a fraternity, video games, AND a job is just a huge amount of stuff for one person.
Those video games get after you. Thanks for the response.
One would assume that with the rest of that stuff, you'd scale back on Playstation. NOOOOOPE. He just never slept.
RIP to that Burger King.
Student Athlete's are allowed to work during the academic year but must be monitored by the Athletics Department to ensure all rules are followed. In most cases these athlete's work for the Athletic department in some way or another. IE we have an athlete who is getting a communications degree and he is our radio play by play for basketball games.
Straight from our Athletic Handbook in regards to Jobs-- up until 2009-ish NCAA prohibited scholarship athletes from working except during the summer and approved school breaks.
The following rules apply to all types of student-athlete employment (Bylaw 12.4.1):
1. The student-athlete must perform useful work.
2. The rate of pay must be the regular rate paid for such duties.
3. Hours paid must equal actual hours worked.
4. Payment in advance of hours worked is not permitted.
5. Transportation to the job site may be provided only if such transportation is made available
to all employees.
6. Student-athletes are responsible for complying with employment rules and are to report any
irregularities in employment compensation or benefits to the Compliance Coordinator.
NCAA Bylaw 12.4.2.1 allows for Fee-for-Lesson Instruction (teaching or coaching sport skills
or techniques) provided the following:
1. Institutional facilities are not used;
2. Playing lessons shall not be permitted;
3. The institution obtains and keeps on file documentation of the recipient of the lesson(s) and
the fee for the lesson(s) provided during any time of the year; and
4. The compensation is paid by the lesson recipient (or the recipient's family) and not another
individual or entity.
You were allowed to, though very few people I knew did, at least during the academic year.
I'll drop some facts-> for our football team out of the 70 full ride scholarship players 37 of them have a part time job in our athletics department.
These jobs vary from- being tutors themselves, ticketing for game nights, working with the intramural programs as refs/coordinators.
Our jobs are to work with these individuals not everyone has the same situation. We want to make these kids successful in the classroom on the field and still be able to be a teenager/young adult.
Taking Physics as a Poly Sci major? I took Physics as a Liberal Art as a Soc major and it was one of the best classes I took at Tech, but things like Genetics, Physics, Chem and Biology were classes I avoided like the plague.
The Navy required everyone to take calc and calc-based physics, regardless of major. It was not fun. Nor have I used anything from those classes since.
Let's keep our heads about us.
Until THIS year, there was no stipend at all. So while fines aren't correct for the current environment, I can see how a prior fine-based system might have morphed a bit and become what we see on the screen above.
And while it would result in bad PR, the idea wasn't really so ludicrous. Who here HASN'T been subject to a fine at some point to encourage some discipline? I'm guessing most of us at some point have paid a late fee or penalty.
As far as the student athletes go, their room and board is paid for, and the subsidy is on top of that, which is a pretty righteous deal in a period when most students leave school with at least some college-related debt, while their parents dip into their life savings to pay their costs.
I agree with Whit, but mostly because of the one-sided publicity firestorm that the media would likely invoke, not because these students are too broke to pay a fine or two when they don't follow the rules.
This looks really bad for the program and I hate to see it, regardless if other schools have done it in the past. Other sports pages that I follow are making hay over this, portraying Foster and Beamer as Grinches.
Cody Journell just have had to bring his check book to practice every day,lol
Where is the context? All I see is a monitor posting fines. Was this during a meeting with the players in which they were discussing these fines? Was it meant for an "example"?
Here's the other thing that I've been seeing on a lot of sites' comments:
"Who cares?"
"So they step out of line, they get fined? I do that when I get a speeding ticket."
"Oh, so they get to grow up and learn some responsibility? Don't break the rules, don't get fined."
You of course get people that are up in arms about fining players who don't make money, but it seems more like the people couldn't care less and the media is hyping it to sensationalism.
This whole thing is weak. I detest whining about discipline. We should be supporting discipline not nickel and dimingbit. How about SEC schools cough Bama that pull scholarships if you don't produce.
I understand wanting to cry about our perceived image but let's take the position of strength. I am still pissed off about banning Stick it in chant!
Big discussion on this on Mike and Mike this morning. First of all, Mike Greenberg just needs to calm down. He's starting to get a little disparaging with his remarks and is taking it way too personally. I really have a lot of mixed feelings about this whole situation. First, I understand the principle and motivation behind what (whoever created this fine system) was trying to accomplish. Yes, we need to hold our student athletes accountable. But, I fundamentally disagree with a system that fines individuals who are not employees of the university and have little to no discretionary income. It completely destroys any sense of amateurism in the sport. The stipend these athletes receive is part of their financial aid award to pay for incidental/miscellaneous expenses related to the full cost of attendance. This amount of money pales in comparison to the huge revenue that the school and coaching staff receive from the sport. It is just flat out unethical and immoral to institute this type of punishment, no matter how good the underlying intentions may have been.
Now in the discussion, I heard the commentators continually mentioning, "There are other ways to discipline the players." While this is true, I didn't hear much in the way of actually alternative suggestions, other than run them until they puke, physical punishments, etc. In this society we live in, coaches are getting flak left and right for this type of punishment. Danny Kanell even weighed in and said that coaches are being more and more reported for excessive physical punishments, and defended the fines in saying that there must be some way to hold players accountable. Yes, there is the argument that you can simply strip playing time from these kids or kick them off the team for repeated violations. But, the school has invested a TON of money in the players for that scholarship, stipend, and other costs related to their academic and athletic lives. Taking away playing time renders all of that money absolutely useless and wasted. These kids are a huge investment on the part of the schools.
I don't agree with the fines at all, but someone has got to come up with some sort of way to hold the athletes accountable. Coaches are afraid of being reported for physical labor punishments, there will be huge public outrage with monetary sanctions, and docking playing time hurts the school from all they spend on the student athlete. I keep hearing outrage and complaints, but little in the way of solutions.
Since many of us are in favor of Fines let's keep them but be fair. Coaches are going to be included
Running backs Coach - Fine 2% of S Beamer Salary - $8,000
Offensive Coordinator fined 2% - $8,000
Beamerball becomes a has been 10% - $250,000
I'm still trying to think who and what are good penalties
Poor player management - 5% of HC Salary
NOT TAKING FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR LOSES AND GAME MANAGEMENT - 25% OF HC - $625,000
All Credit for Memes to those who created them over on this old thread along with many more not used
What should the school do if a student athlete is misusing their stipend? Things like buying alcohol or worse, especially if underage. Are alcohol & entertainment part of the cost of attendance?
There will be a lot of discussion of stipends because it is new. Don't like how M&Ms piled on Bud. He is not the only one having to deal with this and likely not the only one with the same ideas about discipline. Based on the attention they gave him he must be a celebrity! He is big time if he gets all this attention. It is only a positive.
Depends on the school. Miami? Yes. BYU? No. Everywhere else? Not sure.
This story is on the front page of today's Richmond Times. It's legs are growing.
I don't know about "growing legs". This is sort of a report the story, and not much more to say about it, since Whit was pretty clear that any related practice was discontinued and won't be going forward into the first year of stipends.
Looks like the Aggies are having some good natured fun with this:
http://www.goodbullhunting.com/camacho/2015/8/28/9220055/kyle-field-aggi...
I can definitely support a lot of those ideas.
Thats good natured fun right there.
I listened to some the my local sports radio stations (living in new england), sound off on the fines. Probably the longest these guys have ever spent talking about cfb. They ran through each fine, no mention of the immediate cancellation by Whit.
The media will go where they like with it, not a good look on the Hokies :(
SiriusXM is doing one of their semi-annual free listening periods, so I was listening to Lou Holthz and Jack Arute on the way to work, and both of them were staunchly pro-Bud on this nonissue. Unfortunately they're in the minority.
Dan Patrick made an interesting comment this morning. He said, (paraphrasing here) if you take away the financial aspect of the list of fines, and just look at what they're disciplining players for, as a parent, you'd be all for it.
I think he's right in that. I think the whole COA thing has some serious law-of-unintended-consequences things to work through, and this is one of them.
What if you just took the offense list and, instead of fining players actual money, instituted some sort of a demerit points system for violation?. For instance, just assign a certain demerit point value for certain offenses, and within a week or so period, a certain level of cumulative demerit points can result in varying levels of punishment. A point or two gets you a seat in Beamer's office and a stern talking to, and higher levels could result in extra drills/conditioning work, mandatory volunteer work on campus or in town, staying after practice to clean the locker room, etc. A high level of demerits could result in suspensions for quarters or an entire game.
I recognize that if you separate the money aspect from the violations, most people would be in favor of something like this. It was just a poorly conceived idea by the staff, and I agree that this COA is uncharted territory with lots of trial and error to play out. Some of the offenses are pretty ridiculous; you shouldn't have to tell a college student-athlete to behave in class or clean their dorm room. But something like a point system that takes away a player's free time, and in more severe cases their playing time, could be appropriate to address accountability.
Jeez C....help me Lord! This is not going away just caught up with it on today's national news sheet.
I did not read the entire thread because it is from here to the moon and back but you are telling me that the football office executed this and the fing AD was unaware? FT Frank. It is not on the same level but remember Penn ST? The fact that the FB program institutes a policy and the AD is unaware. That sucks the bag from both ends.
Where does Bud get off speaking on policy that is not approved at the highest level. You don't think this will come up Monday night on national TV? I figure 5 minutes total will be donated to it.
"Dadi is looking tired"
" Yeah he was called for a flagrent foul and could not afford his mattress."
Calm down. Whit definitely knew about this. There's no doubt about it. He's covering tracks and making sure it's done the right way. Relax fellow Hokie.
These two don't belong together. They are polar opposites
Either Whit didn't know, it was part of Frank and Bud re building the Team and just a bad start. And once Whit found out he shut it down as it was bad idea
or Whit knew and shit...
Politics wise this is never a reason to calm down. See the issue in that town with a B
Football wise see PSU
Okay see, ignoring coaches breaking the law is in no way, shape, or form, following established, documented procedures accepted by the atheletes that punish people for not following the rules they accepted.
You may think the fines are not the right form of punishment, but I seriously hope no one is equating any of this to what happened at PSU.
No matter what it is, saying you didn't know about it, when you did is a bad time
Like private extramarital affairs in the White House
Whit probably didn't know they wanted to use COA to pay the fines, but there's absolutely no way Whit didn't know that we were doing something that has been documented since at least 9 years ago. It's allowed by the NCAA as long as it's in the financial aid agreement. Comparing this situation to Penn State is beyond blowing it out of proportion.
The situation doesn't matter, PSU was an athletic event that the AD said he didn't know about, bu since he did he was forced out. Yea there are a lot of differences thats not what I'm comparing
How in Today's world do people continue to deny the littlest things til they blow up in the face all at the start it could have been avioded
Penn State was NOT anything athletic that was hidden. It was criminal acts within the athletic department. How can you even begin to compare them? This is something done by many other schools and legal within NCAA legislation. There are huge differences.
This might be the most ludicrous post I've ever read on TKP.
Whit's been in Blacksburg for a year, more than a whole year. I don't buy that he didn't know about this. Looks bad all around.
This is absolutely terrible, and I bet a lot of y'all defending this would not be at all if this happened in OSU or UVa.
Fines like this exist in football (and other sports) programs all over the place. Scholarships come with conditions and in many cases it's explicitly noted in the paperwork that part of the scholarship / stipend / etc can be withheld for disciplinary reasons.
Talk about making a mountain of a molehill.
How exactly is it terrible that our athletes have to learn (if for some reason they didn't know already) that there are real-world consequences for breaking rules that they agreed to?
If at anything, I hope every school does this. Learning that your actions have consequences is a valuable lesson.
I say we institute UNC's preferred method of punishment. For each infraction, the player's tutor needs to write an extra paper.