#Hokies Beamer:"They're exhibition games, they're preseason games. Now it's on to conference games. Now it's down to being really important"— Mike Barber (@RTD_MikeBarber) September 27, 2015
I cringed on Saturday night after I read that quote from Frank Beamer. Knowing the context Sunday morning, it was a post-game message Beamer delivered to his squad immediately after Virginia Tech's 28-35 loss to East Carolina, made the statement only slightly less egregious.
As a fan of the Hokies, it made me mad. It probably incensed any member of Hokie Nation that's laid out thousands of dollars to travel to Blacksburg or afar to support the Hokies against regular season, non-conference opponents. Given Thursday is the deadline for Hokie Club members to plunk down a deposit on Battle at Bristol tickets, a non-conference matchup for which Virginia Tech is required to sell 40,000 tickets, the timing was less than optimal.
That game mattered to Beamer's counterpart, Ruffin McNeill, who was at the helm of the Pirates' fifth consecutive win over an ACC school. Tech had an opportunity against ECU to knockout a gritty, well-coached team that regularly punches above its weight class. A win would have marked progress, kept the ship moving in the right direction, and put the disappointments of 2012-2014 farther off in the distance.
Even exhibitions matter to anyone who likes to win. After I read Beamer's comment, I immediately remembered what Whit Babcock said before he embarked on his men's basketball coaching search, "As long as they're keeping score, we might as well win. That's more fun than losing." And as defensive tackle Luther Maddy succinctly and accurately put it after the game, "It sucks to lose."
Beamer's steady, mellow and placid demeanor has served him well during the highs and lows of his career. However, I can't help to think some fire from the head Hokie would resonate more positively with Hokie Nation. "Play pissed off, practice pissed off," that's how quarterback Brenden Motley said the team would respond. His statement was as comforting as the pint of cookies and cream I ate Saturday night.
Ultimately though, Frank is right. Virginia Tech can still win the ACC and play in a marquee bowl game. Prior to Saturday's loss against ECU, the Hokies had a 1.1% chance to finish the season 11-1; running the regular season table was a minimum prerequisite to any success beyond a conference championship.
Even though he is correct, Beamer needs to be held accountable for the sentiment and statement; it cannot merely be lip service to the program's stakeholders.
"I think we're really going to be a good football team next year, and that's kind of where we are," Beamer said after the Hokies were trampled by the Hurricanes 6-30 in October 2014.
Well, it's next year, and Virginia Tech is not a good football team. By the end of the season, the Hokies' record and accomplishments may reflect that of a good team. However, this team right now, despite an increase in talent across the board, more resembles the three before it that went, 7-6, 8-5, 7-6, than any that won the ACC Championship.
Beamer's past accomplishments at Tech bought him the patience of both the old (Weaver) and new (Babcock) administrations to turn around the program that he made relevant. He's had the freedom to turnover of his staff, the luxury of time to retool a roster that eroded on his watch due to below average recruiting, and he's benefitted from a drastic increase in football support staff.
Before the season began, Beamer was cognizant the stakes to win were high in 2015.
"I'm very aware of the situation with me, Virginia Tech, how long I've been there, how long I will be there," Beamer said. "I'm very aware of it, and I'm not going to be there longer than I feel like I'm a real plus for Virginia Tech. When I stop being a plus for Virginia Tech, you guys are going to have to come to Blacksburg to find me. At my house in Blacksburg, not the football office."
I wrote before the season a reasonable goal is for Virginia Tech to win the ACC Coastal division. Tech's cushy schedule avoids the league's top dogs (Florida State and Clemson), and its roster is the most talented since 2011.
By his own admission, Beamer knows how important these next 8 conference games are. It is time for the forbearance of the fans, and the administration's faith in Beamer to pay off and result in tangible success. If Beamer wants to demonstrate he is still a "real plus" on the sidelines, and unequivocally earn his tenure for his 30th season at Tech in 2016, he'll do what he does best. He'll figure out a way to dig the Hokies out of the slop they got caught up in at Dowdy-Ficklen Stadium on Saturday, and coach this team to Charlotte for a berth in the ACC Championship.
Comments
Well said Joe, I have to be honest the season tickets I was planning on buying for my family next year is no longer on the table. I have lost confidence in this coaching staff and their goals, hopefully change is soon afoot...
Hopefully you don't expect a hire with a large paycheck.
Just like how we'd never pay for a high salary basketball coach, right?
If people don't buy tickets how is VT going to pay for these coaches?
With all the money they've been holding back for years. There's no reason our program can't afford a 3 mil+ salary like west virginia, Mississippi state and washington.
Maybe your not familiar with VT money situation. They owe millions to three guys not currently employed, they have one of the lowest P5 endowments and have been getting great deals on current staffs salaries. VT needs increases in total number of Hokie Club members AND increased donations from those members or in the not too distant future there is going to be a major money problem.
FOR REAL! I joined the Hokie Club last year and was shocked to learn I was number 9713 of ONLY 9721. That's right after about 20 years of meaningful football and graduating about 100,000 students we have less than 10,000 people in the Hokie Club. I bet OSU adds 10,000 people to its version of the Hokie club every 5 years. I joined because I wanted to help sponsor the VT athletics (that I take WAY too seriously) and I live too far to regularly buy tickets. Without doubling this number soon, VT better hope our media rights get reworked or we will be shopping in the discount aisle for our next head football coach.
I honestly don't have the money to pay for Hokie Club. You don't get any perks unless you drop duckets on top of duckets.
agreed, not really any perks. im pissed I got my tickets for the UM game through VT. I paid 60.00 (face value) I was told I would get best available! my seats are horrible! horrible!!! (they just came in the mail last week) I also got GT tickets through VT. now im suspecting those are going to bad seats as well. the Miami game is all good its whatever ill just move down into some empty ones. but I only went through VT because I had hoped the money would go back to VT and help in some way and I hoped it would help me when I get my season tickets next season to be able to get some better seats. but at this point I think ill go the stub hub route for away games from now on.
VT doesn't control where an away game team places the visitors fans.
I doubt Pitt fans had there seats assigned this weekend by VT. They will be in section 39 or 19 at Pitt's own system choice.
VT is given tickets but where in those sections is all VT's choice. When Furman Fans were buying their tickets and received them I doubt many of them got section 510.
I get this. im not blaming VT im just saying its not beneficial really for me to go through VT to get tickets. instead of buying tickets through VT ill get them through stubhub and then donate the additional money straight to VT in the future. this was my 1st time buying tickets for away games through VT ticket office. as I just became a season ticket holder again since 2001. I live in florida I already couldn't make it up for the furman game which the tickets went to waste and I donated the pitt tickets to a family I met tailgating at the OSU game.
I think you raise a pretty legitimate complaint.
Not so much about the Hokie Club, but about the location of their away-game seats. In thinking it through, though, I guess we don't give fans of opponents the best seats in Lane, either.
I think they provide that as a service, not as a huge profit-generator. I don't really like the uncertainty of buying tickets when you have no clue of where they're going to be.
Dear Whit:
Please let us know where the specific seats available at away games and choose which ones we buy. Also, please charge more for better seats and less for worse ones.
Regards,
Highlandshokie
I don't think the VT ticket office knows that when the forms go out.
The "perk" is that you get to follow and support a team you identify with. You don't donate to a college program to get "stuff". But if enough people agree with you and support the same team, they get better facilities, can afford decent coaches, and get to play better teams. It makes you feel better about wearing your VT hat, or putting that flag up in your yard on game day. Donating now will help Whit get the coach he wants in a year or two, instead of being forced to hire Shane to run the team.
$100 a year isn't so much in the big scheme of things. Part of that, which I wish they'd make optional, goes towards mailing you a glossy color magazine with some articles you won't read.
They have a new system that takes out a monthly installment. So 100 dollar minimum comes to 8.30 a month. As for "perks" what are you looking for? I used it to get tickets to anOSU, Pitt and Duke games for less than stubhub for just anOSU game was selling.
100 bucks a year ain't that much to support a team you claim you like
I guess by perks I meant more in the term of seating. going through stubhub for GT last couple of years I haven't paid more than 60 and I haven't been more than 20 yards from the field and ive managed to still get seats near or in the hokies allotted section. and as for the UM game ive sat lower level for dirt cheap. im not looking for any additional bonus items from VT for going through them but when the best seats you can get me in dolphin stadium are in the upper deck and pretty high up in that section at that and im paying 60.00 in an empty stadium its just not worth it to me. I support the hokies in MANY ways financially and am a donor to the hokie club. but when it is game time id rather have good seats. when its game time im paying for the experience and I want to be as close to the action as possible and have a good view.
That point is well-taken, but not really a reason to complain about the Hokie club.
I suppose you could complain TO them about seat location, but I don't blame you for getting tickets elsewhere. Good seats at an away-game isn't something they seem to excel at. I ordered tickets to Georgia Tech, and I'm curious where they'll be...
I did get tickets through them for the Sugar Bowl against Michigan, and they were pretty good seats. I'm expecting the tickets for the Battle at Bristol to be in a decent location as well.
TELL ME ABOUT IT....
I've been waiting for Tech to atleast get with it since William and Mary started this in-state pissing match with their $24 million donation for a new stadium upgrade in 2014. Not to mention that Tech had their first million dollar donor a decade before USC cocks did. Mr Lane vs Mrs Brice.
In all seriousness on the money trail. It only gets you so far.
Oklahoma State. Funded by T. Boone Pickens has given $500 million since 2006 to OSU with $265 million going to athletics, with his goal of having a top 10 football program.
Or see Tennessee 2013 The Vols find themselves mired in more than $200 million of debt, the most in the SEC, with reserves of just $1.95 million, the least in the conference. And then what did they do...Hire a coach to pump up the team and the fans
And of course a few years ago Tech itself did have a previous player donate $1 million to the football program at a halftime of a game in 2010 i think. That was the original indoor money and was to be named after said player at the time
Maybe our money situation is bad due to our previous AD not doing a good job fundraising and the Head Football Coach not helping out.
Cincinnati is a Non-Power 5 team with a pretty good coach making close to Franks salary in Tubberville in a stadium that holds 60% of the seats Lane has.
/Better?
I have no issue with the article, in fact I think Joe has hit the nail on the head, much better than several well paid talking heads and certainly better than random Reddit posters.
Please don't do the thing where you make a surplus of inflammatory comments, get down voted to the point of no return, and have to create a new account, again.
You're allowed to have feelings and opinions on the program. But don't make personal attacks on people. That is the wrong way to get your point across. If the thoughts of the people on other websites align more with yours, and it makes for a more pleasurable experience for you, then go there. No need to let us know about it at every turn.
I get what Frank was trying to say, and he has never been that great with words anyway, but this is NOT something you say out to the media. I don't care if you're trying to hype your players up and tell them that there's something you're playing for, you say these things in the locker room then.
There's a post on r/cfb on the front page about this and people are ridiculing him and our program. These kind of slip-ups look terrible on a program already in decline and remind people of Bobby Bowden's last season at FSU before he 'retired'.
And, frankly, as someone who was at the game screaming is heart out cheering on our Hokies in the torrential rain and wind after driving 8 hours down, I'm a little insulted. What was the OSU game to him then, another exhibition? Do these big OOC games that help prop the ACC's reputation, and the school's national reputation up not mean anything to him? How long has he had this mentality for?
Frank better step it up because after 4 years of mediocrity these comments are just another slap in the face to the Hokie faithful and make our program even more of a laughing stock. And I honestly thought it was over after the VT00WF debacle.
I love posting on Reddit, it gives you a pulse of how we are really perceived nationally. This was a great read and I suggest everyone read it so you can see how everyone else in the nation sees our football team and Frank. This will also give you insight as to how recruits could see us and how Frank is used as a recruiting disadvantage other than him not making house calls.
It gives you a pulse of how you perceive we are really perceived nationally. nothing more.
Nothing is unilateral, especially on the internet. Just like you need to read conflicting sources to find the truth somewhere between you need to acknowledge that things may be worse and better than you believe. No journalist, blog or reddit thread is going to give you an accurate complete picture. They can only inform you to make your own judgement. And in that TKP's staff and forum does an incredible job at informing everyone, more than anything else I have seen.
Informing for VT football sure, TKP is by far the best, but comments are heavily pro-Hokie so in that way I prefer using r/cfb for discussion and seeing how others view our program from the outside. Different strokes, though.
Deeply Tinted Here.
Maybe you should step away from your computer for awhile
I'll never understand the fan that feels it necessary to chastise other fans for not being negative enough.
It's absolutely not about being negative. It's about the majority on this website being naive into thinking there is nothing wrong with Beamer or this Program. At one point we were a proud program of hard working players that wanted to punch you in the mouth and take no shit from the opposition. This is the attitude our coaches had also. I'm aggravated that Beamer has devolved himself and this program (even though he built it) into his current attitude of "ah schucks guys, they are a really good team but they are non conference so they don't matter."
People have wondered over the years as to why we don't have a killer instinct as a Football Team. Also as to why we play down to our competition even though we should beat whoever it may be by 40. The reason is because Teams take the Attitude of the coach. If Your coach doesn't have a little bit of a mean streak your team won't have a killer instinct. Bud and Beamer both had that killer instinct in the 90s and early 00s. Unfortunately they lost it.
In the 90's do you really think that Bud would have played a 3 man line prevent defense "Devil Defense" on 1st or 2nd and 20? Hell no, he would have brough "A" gap pressure with a LB and his 4 down linemen, causing a interception, incompletion, sack, fumble. Now it is common that the opponent on 1st or 2nd and long converts on our "elite" defense. Also don't even get me started on Torian Gray's "Face Guarding" Technique.
I shouldn't have attacked Hokie Fireman and TechHokie13 and I'm sorry I did. I just hate that people can't see exactly what is going on with our once proud team and just want to give Beamer a pass. There are other ways of thinking about this team rather than it always being Unicorns and Rainbows.
Everyone knows FB is the only person to celebrate a missed FG in the history of football.
If you add this weekends comments onto this we see where the state of the program is.
Without wading into too much of a debate, I'd just like to say that
is a categorically incorrect assessment of this community. Have you read all the criticism on these boards in the last 48 hours? I think I've seen about 2 people think things will be fine. Most say shit's hit the fan, and a few are sort of in between.
The last 48 Hours is totally different. Some have seen this coming for the last 3 years.
I would contend that measured criticism and a willingness to give credit to mitigating factors are acceptable. Doesn't need to be doom and gloom and I think it's rather hyperbolic to think we're "unicorns and rainbows" all the time. While my example was the last 48 hours, the criticism still remains wrong, in my eyes.
except that the conversation from year 2 of Lefty's hire has been about firing him. And from the newsome o'cainspring era has been primarily about Beamer's time to exit. So you claiming to see it 3 years ago is basically what this site has been talking about for the past 3 years. Congratulations you're not as special as you think you are.
Your issue is only that people disagree with you.
This smells strongly of hindsight bias.
I'm an in between. When I first read his comments I couldn't imagine in what context those comments would be okay. My second thought was, because I'm not privy to the context of these comments,I'm going to hold judgement until I hear more. I still don't know what to think. Although those types of comments, or that mentality could very well win a conference championship, they WILL NOT win a national championship.
I think we're all in agreement that we expect more than this from the coaches and the team. We all want to fill the trophy case, and with this loss, we were just set back another year. Even if we finish the rest of the season with all wins and a conference championship game, this loss will be the one to keep us out of ANY playoff contention discussions.
Now, just because I was/am optimistic about the potential of the team, that doesn't mean I'm looking through maroon/orange tented glasses. I'm anxious to see how this team responds with PITT coming to town. Saturday's performance will tell us a lot about where this team is, and give a better idea of what to expect the rest of the season. Just my 2 cents...
I'm none of the above. I just like Mike's Hamburgers, QB sacks, and #punterswag. I mainly come on here to type curse words while my wife isn't looking, toss out the occasional satire nugget, and break 3-3 on the Pick Six thingy.
7-6, or 10-2... Really, I 'm good. Football season is just fun. (Although I would love to go see the Hokies play in the ACCCG before it leaves Charlotte. It's an easy day trip, and I can get good tickets for cheap through a Dr Pepper connection.)
Wait, you know Dr. Pepper? Is he really a doctor?
I don't see it, man. There are comments both in support of Beamer and critical of him. You seem to be obsessing over the supportive ones.
The defense is bad this year. Not down, bad. And I don't see people making many excuses. There are people pointing out WHY the defense is bad (LB depth, poor play by the young backup corners) but explaining the cause of poor performance doesn't excuse it.
The offense is improved this year. Big improvements in yards and point. Not a national powerhouse, but top 40 in yardage and scoring. I think people who are criticizing the offense are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There's reason to be optimistic that what Loeffler is doing is finally paying dividends.
In general, we're 2-2 and pissed off about a quote that sounds like our head coach doesn't care. The quote's awful. I still want to hear it in context, for the same reason I want to know why JCC only averaged 1.8 YPC against ECU. Knowing that won't excuse the poor performance, but it will let me know if it was a blocking problem, a RB vision problem, or both, and tell me what to look for against Pitt. Knowing the full context of the "exhibition/preseason" comment won't excuse how awful of a quote it is, but it will tell me whether Frank has a view on non-conference games that's about 30 years outdated, or if he's trying to hit the reset button for his discouraged players and refocus on that goals are still attainable.
Also, if the mere expression of ideas you disagree with drives you to your recent behavior in the comments, it might be a good idea to do some soul-searching.
You have some valid concerns and criticisms. I have difficulty articulating myself when it comes to discussing overall team direction and reacting to negative outcomes, so I usually don't engage in these discussions. I almost always support the players and coaches of any of our teams regardless of outcome (James Johnson's basketball team excluded). Suffice to say, I'm typically a glass-half-full guy, and I don't agree with the way you've approached dealing with fans that don't share your outlook. But thank you for taking the high road and apologizing in this instance.
Fuck dude I have such a hard time, articulating myself about this team. I'm very well educated and can speak fine if it were a actual "debate". However I have given so much money, and time to this team over the years that Frank's interview this weekend drove me fucking nuts. It's like he's saying I'm glad you guys travel 8 hrs round trip for ball games. Buy the tickets spend the gas money and buy the merchandise we sell but it doesn't matter because OOC doesn't mean jack shit to me or the team as long as we are still in it for the ACC championship. Yet he wants us there to support the team. I'm really happy that I didn't get Football tickets this year and instead upgraded my Basketball tickets.
you need to read more and say less hyperbole.
I am disagreeing and countering TechHokie13 several times in this post. And this:
is exactly what I wrote here: http://www.thekeyplay.com/comment/326307#comment-326307
The only thing naive here is this:
when if you bothered to read more and talk less then you would see on this post,
this post: http://www.thekeyplay.com/virginia-tech-football/2015/09/10432/slept-it-...
this post: http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2015/september/26/frank-beamer-non-con...
this post: http://www.thekeyplay.com/virginia-tech-football/2015/09/10421/videos-vi...
this post: http://www.thekeyplay.com/virginia-tech-football/2015/09/10420/hokies-fa...
and this post: http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2015/september/26/ecu-loss-venting-thread
the conversation is primary laden with negative or concerned outlooks on the program, the loss, the season and the coaches including Frank Beamer.
Your naivete in assuming that everyone that disagrees with you can be generalized into O&M groupings is likely why you don't like these boards. Because you can't seem to have a discussion without losing your shit in hyperbolic statements, even when people agree with you and are saying the same things, as I am.
Chill out dude
Spread offenses weren't a thing in 90s, or even early 00s. Offenses would would stack the box with tight ends, H-Backs and fullbacks. Loading the box on defense was a way to attack that. Bud plays the 30 in obvious passing situations (by down and distance) because teams (like ECU) can spread out the field and are very adept at completing passes to work out long distance situations.
I miss the aggressive play too, but sometimes it is not feasible. Bud actually played some Bear against East Carolina again this season, after it was torched last year. Sometimes, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I don't think anyone believes that there is 'nothing wrong' - it's a question of if the current staff is able to correct these issues. There will be growing pains, I'm ok with that. There are depth issues due to poor recruiting in the past - we can't fix recruiting from 2012/13 - we have to make do with that.
What I'm not ok with seeing >70 yards of penalties for 3 straight weeks. I'm not ok with the running back rotation. TO ME, these are seemingly straight forward fixes, but alas, I am not a football coach. I haven't completely lost confidence in our current staff, but I'm getting there. This season is their last chance to fix these things IMO.
EDIT:
I'd like to add the risk reward associated with changing staff. There are four possible outcomes
Different people assign different likelihoods to each of these possible outcomes. Personally, after our last two wins, I believed outcome #1 to be about a 50-60% possible. Now... I'm not so sure. As I said above, the running back rotation is baffling, and the penalties have to be fixed. These are red flags that signal indecisive leadership. Indecisive leadership is an oxymoron.
I've been patient, mostly because of our depth issues, the steady (with regards to the long term) improvements we've seen on offense, and Bud's resume, but this loss has made me question Beamer's job security more than any other loss in recent history.
I couldn't agree with you more. I've had my moments on here, several times, regarding Frank and the state of this football program. You've got the delusional Hokie fans that think just because Frank "built the program" and that he's a hall of famer that he should be able to leave when he wants and that he's just fine and dandy. After the Miami game last year I made a comment saying that Frank is "washed up" and is basically doing a disservice to Tech by sticking around forever (just like he said in the quote Joe posted)....you would've thought I shot somebody's dog or something. I got blasted. This program has been a laughing stock for a long time. We all know the about the big games we've blown i.e. Boise State, LSU, Kansas, Clemson, FSU 2005, Michigan, etc. Our record in BCS bowls and bowls in general is atrocious. Oh, and before anybody brings up ACCCG wins/appearances we were winning when the ACC was weaker than it is now. This program used to have an edge, and it had an edge because of the mindset, and clearly this team/coaching staff/program as a whole has lost that edge. Franks stupid comments after saturday's game solidified my opinion even more. Also, we've got all these new facilities and fancy things, WHICH IS GREAT, yet we still are losing out on big time recruits, wonder why? Hmmmmmm...Frank needs to look himself in the mirror and be a man of his word and realize that he is, without a doubt, the weak link of the program. I love the man, but damn, the time has come.
Just curious, did he ever say the games aren't important or don't matter? Sounds like he said conference games matter more, which any person should agree.
Also, I didn't hear the audio. Could he have actually been saying there're instead of they're? In other words, there are exhibition games, preseason games, and now we are moving on to conference games. Just trying to make sense of it. I know these are the last games of a great beamer era, and I hope our fan base doesn't have to resort to ridiculing his every word on the way out.
Or using a quote in a tweet for the basis of an entire article. Chris Coleman on TSL said after the whole fine thing that if he ever did that, he'd quit his job because it's just lazy journalism. But that's none of my business.
I noted the context of the quote. If you knew Frank as well as you claim I should, you know he's said this about non-conference games many times before.
If you want the call my thoughts lazy, please do so without basterdizing the Kermit meme. Thank you.
I still fully believe that his comments are more along the lines of "let's not let this beat us twice" than "this game doesn't matter and I never cared about winning it." And yes, I think this was a lazy post because it's a quote from twitter and then a bunch of recycled material aimed at taking a cheap shot at a coach that you're currently disappointed with.
Oh yea let Frank have no accountability. That's why we are where we are currently. Glad you don't make decisions.
I don't think saying that he thought the comments were taken out of context = no accountability
All he had to do is go back and listen to it to see that's exactly how it was said.
If we're allowed to be disappointed in our coaches, we're allowed to be disappointed in how our (normally excellent) writers present information.
I'm not saying we shouldn't hold Frank accountable. I'm saying that we shouldn't take his message to his team - that they need to move on and not let this loss drag them down - as he's too old and out of touch and doesn't care, which is how that quote was presented.
/
You mean going back to where people don't have opinions different than yours?
Transformers... trolls in disguise!
I mean, just so we're all clear on this and so we're being fair, that is not what Frank Beamer said.
He said non conference games are " exhibition games, they're preseason games. Now it's on to conference games. Now it's down to being really important ".
Now you are certainly allowed to to decipher that as "let's move on and not let this loss drag us down"... but again, to be clear, that is not the qoute. That is your interpretation.
And it wasn't just to his team. He made that comment to the media as well, which is the same as a comment made to the fans. Us.
He's saying they need to be treated like preseason games after you play them. Obviously he's not going in there and playing 3rd stringers in the 2nd quarter. The fact that everyone is assuming he meant that he didn't want to win is as much their interpretation as my interpretation is mine. And early, he's right. Non-conference games mean didly to all but 4 teams in the country.
Was the delivery great? No. But everyone getting all worked up by it, as if you really believe that Frank didn't want to win the game just absurd.
And a message to the media is a message to his players. They read that stuff too.
Again, let's be clear, that is your interpretation. That is not what he said.
This is not true. Any team that wants to make it to the playoffs have to care about non-conference games. Yes, only four teams get in, but I bet there will be more than a few who are left out because of losses in non-conference games.
In fact, if we really think about it, any team that wants to make it to a bowl game needs to worry about non-conference games. Non-conference games count towards bowl eligibility.
If you think people are upset because they didn't think Frank wanted to win, you are completely missing the point. The point is that "non-conference games are just exhibition games" is something you would never hear from an elite program. The fact that it is something that our coach said shows the difference in mentality between our program and where we want our program to be. It makes it painfully clear what Frank Beamer's expectations are for this team.
They're also the expectations he has for his team after losing two nonconference games. I still think this is just a poorly-worded attempt to get his program focused on the next game from a disappointed coach minutes after losing to a rival program on a day where very little went the Hokies' way, and something people have blown up to mean way more than it was intended to mean.
Still, I really hope no one goes to town on one sentence I utter after a very disappointing moment in my life.
Guys, seriously... what is with all the downvotes on TechHokie this evening? I know we're all upset about the loss and the implicit attitude of the coaching staff, but can't we have a reasonable discussion? All he's doing is stating his opinion about the article and asking for a more reliable source, no?
Everyone step back, take a breath, and remember that we're all in this together.
I thought it was uncalled for to call Joe's article lazy. That's not a reasonable way discuss what he originally said.
The reason I said it was lazy was that it was a tweet from another writer followed by a whole lot of "as I/_ previously wrote..." which really just came off as, "Frank is old and doesn't care and needs to be fired" (you can say "be held accountable", but let's face it, that means fired). No coach is going to be on top of his PR game after a loss, and to take something Frank said as an effort to get his program focused on the conference games ahead (poorly stated as it may be) and tear it to pieces is, as I said before, absurd.
No, being held accountable means just that, being held accountable. You've preached I'm reading too much into things, meanwhile throughout this thread you are the one actually reading too much into things.
I straight up wrote Frank was right, all of the reasonable goals for Tech this season are still in front of the team.
However, he absolutely needs to be held accountable for what he says. He cannot say in 2014 (and 2013 and 2012) that Tech will be a better football team in 2015, and then coach a team that is not better. He can't brush off non-conference games, stress the importance of ACC play, and then guide Tech to a 5-3 ACC record. Letting that slide is a disservice to the program's stakeholders, especially the fans.
A coach with 30+ years experience knows what he's doing and saying in post-game. And if he doesn't, he should, and still deserves criticism.
This quote is the culmunation of years of complacency and lack of fire from Beamer. And by lack of fire, I mean lack of fire to the fans and media. And judging by our on field performance, lack of fire in the locker room as well, although that is just speculation.
You're acting as if this quote is the only thing FB has done wrong and we are just picking him apart for this quote and this quote only. That's not true, it's a culmination of events leading up to the inexplicable loss to a much worse ECU side and then the audacity to not even think before speaking and saying something as stupid as he did, whatever his real intentions may be.
Also, FB has been a coach for a very long time, if he can't even keep his mind clear during a post game interview after a loss and saying something this poorly worded then he's still not unaccountable for what he said and deserves the criticism thrown at him.
Understandable. I enjoy reading Joe's articles, and this one was an interesting read. I also, though, agree that it would be so much nicer to have an actual full-context source with the complete transcript. A tweet as a source usually comes with a ton of questions about the actual content.
The context was noted in the article, it was one of Beamer's messages to the team after the game. I read Barber's post-game story before haphazardly running with the Tweet. I also read the reports from the other media at the game.
I specially embedded the Tweet because it was a severe source of contention among Hokie Nation. Many people forwarded it to me on Twitter, many responded to Barber, and many others sent it to Whit along with their discouragement.
I wanted it to be a start point, which ultimately pivoted to the greater issue--accountability.
I agree that was the intent of the message, but it was poorly conveyed. Part of being a collegiate coach is being a politician (for lack of a better term) too. I agree the Mike Barber tweet was out of context, and very much 'click-bait' but a head coach should never use the word 'exhibition' in terms of a regular season game. You can't say these things - they're offensive to fans, boosters, and the other team (not that I'm really concerned with the latter).
You said it was a message he delivered to the team immediately after the loss. Do we actually have a transcript or recording of the full message Frank game the team? Because I still think that matters.
Was Frank saying that specifically in terms of the goal of winning the ACC, non-conference games are like preseason games? Because if that was the full context of the message, then that's true. If Frank was trying to tell his team to not get discouraged because as far as the ACC championship goes, we're 0-0, then that's a message I can support.
On the other hand, if Frank is literally saying he doesn't give a shit about non-conference games in general, I can't support that. I also find that idea hard to swallow, given all the anecdotes I've heard from other coaches about how competitive Frank is as a person.
Either way, it's a poison sound bite. But Frank has quite a talent at generating those. Ultimately I'd like to see/hear the full message, instead of just that one line.
Dude... if it's none of your business then why are you making this comment? And it was a lazy Frank Beamer that said it. Reporting or writing an op-ed about what his said no matter if lazy or not is not the problem. Saying something stupid like this to national media is the problem.
I would argue that beating G5 teams matters as much as winning ACC matchups. Losing to a G5 team as a so-called premier P5 team is horrible for a lot of reasons, some even worse than if we lose to Pitt or NCST.
Absolutely disagree. Conference games have conference implications. Far too much distinction is placed on whether a team is P5 or not anyway (Purdue).
When you lose games you shouldn't, that reflects badly on a program that needs every win it can get to lift itself out of mediocrity. No game should be taken for granted.
Maybe I was a bit overzealous in saying that they have the same weight, but there are a few people who are willing to brush this game off because it is not a conference game and doesn't have conference implications. That's the wrong attitude imo.
Also, I agree far too much distinction is placed on P5 vs G5 teams, but unfortunately that's not how the national media sees it which makes it even more paramount that we don't slip up when we have these opportunities to win relatively easier OOC games.
Agreed. But, there is a difference in placing importance on a game before playing it, and downplaying a loss so that a team doesn't beat you twice.
Honestly, I think you're reading too much into this. By now, you should know Frank. You should know how competitive he is and how much he hates to lose. He wanted to win this one -badly- and he wanted to beat OSU. However, he knows that dwelling on it won't help, and that's the message he wants to send. So no, it doesn't look great, but he's telling his players, "hey, that loss doesn't matter. Forget about it because it doesn't matter, let's go get better and win the conference." Everyone talks about not letting a loss beat you twice and I'm fully ok with Frank's words being the message going forward so long as that doesn't happen.
I 100% agree with you that Frank misspoke and is trying to move the team past the loss and is saying that conference games hold higher importance and this is essentially a tune-up. but i am 100% in disagreement with you on the reaction you have. how does it make it better?
for me there are multiple issues:
1) even if that is how he meant it, it's a piss poor thing to say.
2) if he misspoke then he has been doing so for years and if so calls into question if he is really keeping up.
3) if he believes it then it is absolutely the wrong mentality and complete opposite of the blue collar approach we all believe and take pride in. you can't have it both ways. either we bring our lunch pail to work every day for every thing or we don't.
4) him saying how much we benefit from playing ECU not a week before only to dismiss the importance of the game because it is out of conference, even if misspoken is not how I want that situation handled.
now am I on the Fire Frank boat? No. But this doesn't sit well with me at all. Being a head coach is all encompassing and speaking to the media is one of those factors. leading the team in public is one of the key roles. and saying things like this make me question his capacity, his drive and his coaching young players to in fact bring the lunch pail.
and as I said before, I hate that. I hate that what he has been saying this year is causing me to think that way because I fully believe Frank deserves better at the end of his career. If I am Whit my message is clear: every game matters and every interview requires capacity. that's the job. you said you're up to it, so turn it around.
no matter age, tenure or position that has to be the message. This entire shitstorm was caused by him saying something dumb. If he doesn't feel people should be questioning him then he needs to correct it himself.
I've been a big proponent of Frank, but that quote really changed it in my mind. All I can think of now is Frank Bowden. I hope like hell he proves me wrong but I can't help but think that the game has changed too much for him.
This statement is a classic example of bad optics contextually true but so stupid it makes you want to chew nails and spit rust. I can't imagine Whit was pleased to hear it either - its shit like this that gets otherwise good folks canned.
My contribution level is probably going to significantly drop if this is the actual attitude of the coaches.
He should have simply said that the ACC championship was still a valid goal, despite this disappointment.
The preseason analogy was DOA. I guarantee Beamer didn't mean that the way it sounded.
The fact is that most VT fans aren't in the mood to overlook this game, and that comment didn't help.
Nice writeup above, Joe.
Nicely done, Joe. Unlike you, I can't put my thoughts together well, so let the babbling begin:
It was a bad loss, but, as losers often say, so many things went ECU's way and not ours. Bud will fix things, but we can't win every game - we aren't in the big leagues like the schools with the wealthier donors; in addition, VT tends to follow the rules, which in this day and age, makes it harder to succeed. I'm proud of the "Beamer Way" and wouldn't want it any other way.
Now, to what Barber reported, we all want to know what's being said behind every door. We just don't want to accept what we always hear. Beamer was probably trying to get the team ready to accomplish the only realistic goal we can: win the ACC, again. Conference championships are a big damn deal for schools like us - we've won several and we will win more. Will we win a national championship? While it would be freaking AWESOME, it's not a deal breaker - I want to win as many games as possible, I want the players to be successful, and I want to be proud of what Virginia Tech stands for. If people don't want to buy tickets, fine, you'd probably be the person sitting behind complaining when we don't get a first down on every. fucking. play - yes, I'm talking to the asshole who sat behind me at the Purdue game last week.
This team (the students, coaches, and administrators) needs our support throughout the next 8 games. Please don't talk shit about the players - you know, those teenagers that suit up and play their hearts out every week. If you are a reporter, stop putting quotes out of context on social media just to get reactions from people. I live in RVA and refuse to look at anything the local newspaper prints or submits due to Barber. Report the fucking story, not a quote or two. If you are limited by characters, I'm pretty sure people can tweet more than one thing at a time.
BTW, if you were tweeting "fire Beamer" to Whit last night, please stop. That's worse than anything that happened yesterday - even worse than that what that reporter did.
I agree. We as fans need to stay classy, no matter what happens.
...Well, at least after Sunday.
THIS. We need to keep in mind that Hokie Nation is the best fan base there is (see photo, no bias whatsoever there ;)). Let's set an example to the rest of the college football world, this coaching staff, and our players that we are behind them ALL THE WAY. I know if I was a player/coach, I would LOVE to hear the fans give it their all each and every time out.
Yeah this loss sucks...any loss sucks, but this one more so. But hey, as Henry Ford said "If EVERYONE is moving forward TOGETHER then success takes care of itself." Let's uphold that end of the bargain and give our boys a Lane Stadium welcome and make Pitt and NCSU wet their freaking pants!!!!
I wanted to wait a while to comment and let the emotions from yesterday wear off a little. It has been discussed ad nauseum about the despicable officiating and overall sloppiness and disappointment from this game. Beamer's post-game comments also did not sit well with me. Every game matters equally, and we seem to have really lost any competitive edge we used to have from a coaching standpoint. But a few thoughts from yesterday on what I'm seeing:
I had been pleasantly surprised about the offense's early success, especially Motley's maturity and good performance. However, after yesterday, I started to think a little bit. Here we are in year 3 of Loeffler's offense, with arguably the most talented roster (on paper) we've had in 4-5 years. And what are we on offense? I'd say somewhere right around just competent. Three years, and just competent. We keep hearing, "Just wait, when it clicks, it's going to be great. Almost there." I've been waiting with anticipation to finally see what this "Loeffler offense" is going to look like fully matured. But I realized something: although much more fundamentally sound and sophisticated, we are basically still under the same offensive philosophy as the Stinespring era. This is a ball control offense which plays too conservatively and relies heavily on the defense to win (more on that later). We find ourselves in too many 3rd and long situations. When we get into a hole, we are always going to struggle when leaning on the offense to win. We are simply arriving at the same result, but in a much more complex way. Expect this philosophy and the results to remain the same for the remainder of Beamer's tenure. This is the way he wants to play football.
Although Motley may not be as consistent of a passer as Brewer, I think Motley gives us our best chance at explosive passing and running plays. With Brewer at the helm, this is a short passing ball-control offense that still struggles to run the football. I've seen enough also to think that McMillian is our best option at RB, but none of these backs are near the caliber of a Jones, Suggs, Williams, Wilson, or Evans. And I'm just stunned by our OL. Pass pro was mostly okay and gave us time to throw, but we cannot get any consistent push in the running game, leaving us to run horizontally and rely on Motley for yards. It's just frustrating that it seems this difficult to get any semblance of a running game going.
This might not sit well, but I thought Foster was absolutely exposed yesterday. Our defense is incredibly overrated right now. Foster and Co. have dug in their heels on the "we are going to outscheme and outsmart you" mentality, while the talent level from our defense is nowhere near what it once was. Scheming can take you only so far, and nine times out of ten, the team with better athletes is going to crush you. That's what I saw yesterday: DBs getting torched, a DLine that couldn't get pressure on the QB in time, and virtually nothing in the way of linebackers to slow down their read option attack. They absolutely walked all over us yesterday, and Foster should be held accountable. I'm really having serious doubts about the whole "tweener type, coach 'em up, outscheme them" defensive philosophy. That was embarrassing. I don't see many Vince Halls, Xavier Adibis, Brandon Flowers, DeAngelo Halls, etc. out there right now. Fuller is our best player by far, and his absence showed terribly.
So, here we are. I'm hoping someone can light a fire under these guys. But, after such comments from Beamer, I just don't see any fire coming from the top down. I still see too many problems to say that we are considerably improved. A long way to go still, but that one hurt.
It may not sit well, but it's the absolute truth, and ignoring it won't make it go away.
I love Bud to death, but it doesn't sit well with me when his response is "we just missed a lot of tackles"
that might be true, but that's throwing it on the players and that just doesn't seem like the right way to handle a media session. If tackling was an issue don't say that in the interview. Put your players through a ton of tackling drills during the next week and see if the tackling improves.
I'm not sure what else he's supposed to say. It's a fact. Otherwise, we're gonna get a lot of coachspeak. Bud is literal, and he stated a literal fact. Perhaps it's the subtlety of it, but I'm good with it because he said "we." That's collective. That's the team, the coaches. Perhaps he could have fluffed it up a bit and said "we just missed a lot of tackles, and that's on me and my staff to fix," but I don't know that it's any different. It's not like he called anyone out for simply failing.
okay I see where you're coming from. I guess the truth hurts. I know we missed a lot of tackles and you're right, what else is he going to say, right? I'm always a fan of the sort of coach speak we get sometimes, like "we got our butts kicked in every way and we're going to work really hard this week to shore up some of those leaks" and just end it there. The details are for closed door meetings with other coaches and players. Not the media.
So if we lose the chance to win the coastal, what will Beamer say then? "The only thing that matters is if we get 6 wins to get to a bowl game"? And if that's not a possibility, "Our only get-after-it game is the Commonwealth cup".
Actually, we all know that Beamer's official statements are BS. If the Purdue game was just an "exhibition" then he wouldn't have been dancing in the locker room after the game. But the constant no-accountability attitude after each loss and extremely obvious lip service are really getting on peoples' nerves. Take some accountability for once and own up to the loss for fucks sake.
I just can't believe people are questioning Beamer's will and desire to win. Beamer has never been great with words. A master of coach speak, yes, but he often speaks in fragmented sentences full of cliches and sweeping generalizations. I'm pretty sure he only thinks one word ahead, so it really isn't surprising that he flubbed on this one. Beamer has always been a coach who does own up to a loss; he never calls his players out.
Personally, I don't think Beamer's statements are news at all. Here is the real news:
1) Offense is improving. A lot of bright spots, which is impressive given Mot was thrown in there without having had many first team reps. I'm glad he's been around a few years. I'm not 100% sold on Lefty, but certainly about as good an improvement we could expect this year without Brewer.
2) RB's are performing, but nobody is happy with the committee approach. Shane is the one coach that should be, but probably isn't in the hot seat.
3) Bud needs to figure this out against Pitt. If he doesn't, looks like Beamer's job might be at the mercy of how bad/well the D does for the rest of the season. Now that will be the #1 headline.
Even though we lost yesterday, I don't think this team resembles the 2012-2014 teams. Even the 2010 team that did win the ACC struggled pretty mightily against ECU. They also lost to JMU... I don't think its fair to say this isn't a good team based off of one tough fought game against ECU in a monsoon.
More than anything, I'm tired that the only times we are nationally relevant anymore are when we are being ridiculed. Tired of being a punchline
Yea man, we were the ass end of Braxton Miller's "video game spin move" on Sports Center Top 10. And we were the asses of ECU's QB on Sports Center last night.
Every time you turn around, we're in a negative spotlight.
I understand. Truly. But I have a solution. Homeopathic therapy. Whether the Hokies win or lose, watch less pregame and post game shows and watch more actual games. I watch a lot of PAC-10 1030pm est ball games. Those boring nooners from the Big1G.
You know what you will see. A lot of what we saw Saturday. ESPN is very good at the 5% of the best 5% of the worst stuff from Saturday, and very little time on the 90% in between.
And follow Dwight Vick on Twitter. He's like Tylenol and Advil at the same time.
Hear, hear.
It's very easy to be misanthropic with a sports team. To everyone saying they're going to not renew season tickets or reduce/eliminate their donations: your contributions are a vote of confidence in the athletic department, not just Frank. Crack open a beer and chill; we could be UVA fans.
That was a good read, and a fair take.
My response is admittedly a little off-topic as it doesn't really address Frank's postgame comments (I'm in the "I get what he was trying to say, but that was a poor way to say it" camp), but I wanted to ramble incoherently a little about people's perceptions of the program and at a higher level, how we get them.
As a thought exercise, if you think the team has reached it's ceiling under the present leadership, did you think so before the game? Will you still feel this way if we win convincingly next week? What if we win the Coastal? What if we win the ACCCG? I don't think wanting a change of command is completely off-base, or that anyone is necessarily wrong for thinking so, but if the answer to this question could change next week or in three weeks, or at the end of the season, perhaps we are overreacting.
Even Joe (I'm not trying to call you out, this example is just fresh in my mind), after we had jumped out to a 14-point lead, tweeted that "we are good at football." By the end of the game we were bad. The reality may very well be that we are bad, but is 3 1/2 quarters a fair time-scale to assess whether a team is good or not?
It feels like a lot of us have cranked up the derivative control gain in the PID controllers of our minds, and we're controlling a noisy signal without a firm grasp of the physical behavior of the system we're trying to control. I think we tend to do this not only with our analysis of the state of the program, but with our analysis of players as well. At the end of last year, JC Coleman was a hero. Four games into this season, and the consensus is that his carries should go to Travon McMillan. Greg Stroman had a rough day yesterday, but played an integral role in defending Cincinnati's passing attack in the Military Bowl. So how many snaps should Stroman get moving forward? What about Coleman?
In reality, I don't believe there is a definitive way to answer any of these questions. We could choose any performance metric we want, and the data we use to form our conclusions about football teams won't be stationary or ergodic, and the scope with which we can interpret this data is very limited.
I'm not trying to persuade or dissuade anyone from whatever opinion they hold, but I want to appeal to anyone who reads this, when composing an opinion to release to the interwebs to consider the time scale of the data you are using to form an opinion and how much of an emotional component is influencing that opinion.
Okay thanks, I love you guys, Go Hokies.
(edited for grammar/syntax)
A very level-headed post. I would like to point out that Stroman was practicing at one position last week, and then thrown into a different position in the game, that's not his fault, and I hope VT fans don't get down on him over his performance yesterday
For me personally, anything I tweet during a game is how I feel at that exact instance in time. It's basically my emotional roller coaster of watching Hokie football. You would think typing in all-caps would dissuade anyone from following me, but unfortunately that's not the case.
Tech forced two turnovers and looked beyond competent on offense to jump up 14-0. A plethora of mistakes made over the next 3.5 quarters made it evident Tech was a bad team. Sometimes in roulette you push all in on black, and lose. I did so with $100 bets 7 times in a row on my honeymoon.
Understsnding a football team is like putting together a million piece jigsaw puzzle, and each snap is a new connection and data point. We won't see the full picture until the season over, but every play gives us a better view.
This team is littered with flaws, most of which are correctable. At the end of the season, I wouldn't be surprised if we were 5-7 or 10-2. I hope like hell it's the latter.
Yeah, I get it. If I tweeted everything I was thinking/feeling during the course of the game one would probably think there were six different people controlling my account, all of whom suffer from a bi-polar disorder.
My intent wasn't to say you were being overly-reactionary, but rather to highlight how drastically our outlooks can change over the course of a relatively short time scale and the importance of having some sort of time-frequency filter that we pass these feelings through before we form concrete opinions.
I would take this a step further and say it's like a million-piece jigsaw puzzle of a continually morphing picture. So not only do we not see a full picture until the season is over, but the picture that we thought was emerging when we were half way done may or may not look anything like the product we get when we've worked 999,998 pieces and given up on finding the last two which have inevitably been eaten by a pet or were accidentally vacuumed.
That's a good point. I'm ready for this week to pass by so we can see the Pitt game. If we win (and somehow win handily) then I expect a lot of people on here to be eating crow(happily) on Sunday. If we don't win, then I can see more and more people starting to jump ship. The point being, I still think it's a little early to call our team definitively bad or good. We've shown traces of great playing and traces of horrendous playing.
This is the crux of the matter. I don't think people yet comprehend the true deficiency in our program.
For the past three seasons the team has been wildly unpredictable. From week to week we gain or lose ground seemingly at random. And the fan base is wildly bipolar as a result. Beat Purdue, and the coaches are awesome. Lose to ECU, and it's time for a change. If we beat Pitt, watch closely: the coaches will be awesome again, smooth sailing ahead.
We the fans can simply take nothing from a victory or defeat anymore, because for the forth season running we cannot build upon success from week to week. And I don't know about you, but for me feeling progress being made is an integral part of fan experience. Wild fluctuation is as bad as losing for me, because it eliminates my trust.
So no matter what we do in individual games for the rest of the season, ECU has convinced me we are a 6-6 team. We'll win or lose games totally at random, maybe predicated by how closely their play reflects what Bud prepared for. I won't enjoy wins as much, because a know a loss is on the way. And I won't fret over a loss, because the next win is around the corner.
Good perspective, they have definitely lost our trust. Seemed like we were consistent when we knew it was going to be hard for anybody to score on us and it was going to be hard for us to score. Now, points seem everywhere and it is very unsettling.
I didn't get that upset by the loss because it just representative of who we are. I got upset about Frank's quote because it shows he either is too out of touch to manage the program and handle media or he really believes that these games don't matter, which is a huge insult to our fans.
football is like a box of chocolates..
you never know what you're gonna get
I am just tired of opening the box that has some filled with poop. Could we just get the box that the worst is coconut?
Brings to mind my favorite joke from Jim Gaffigan "Ahh hell I got the one filled with toothpaste!"
I see you
Your comment sums up how I feel about all this. It seems a little premature to give up on the season. I think we've seen some good things from this football team and we've seen some bad things. There are things we all want to see corrected and hopefully they will be, but to give up after this loss is to far, I think. Is this a 5-7 team? No, its a 2-2 team, it can be 5-7 or 10-2. Both seem like real possibilities at this point.
I cringed when I saw what CFB said, but I agree with his sentiment. We have to go out and win the ACC now, we can't let ECU beat us twice by getting under our skin. I just wish our coach didn't sound like an alien trying to impersonate a college football coach when he talks to the media.
Also, I can't imagine what people did after the JMU loss.
You had me until Stroman.
Frank certainly hasn't earned his $2.64 million annual salary the last several years. I don't think he has the energy needed to get the program back to the lofty levels of just a few years ago. When we are consistently beaten by a program like ECU are unable to blow-out, not just beat, a program like the Hoos (still grateful for the last 11 years) it indicates that we have problems that aren't being addressed.
Not at all
Yes, looking at ECU's recruiting on paper, they shouldn't be beating us. But that's not reality, especially in college football.
Is there audio, or a link to the audio of the interview where CFB said this?
I can't help but think; if Bud Foster was at the helm, the team would seem more intense. Especially after a loss.
...just maybe
Except that our failings on defense were our problems yesterday. That has to be on him
Exactly. Defense is going to need a 2003 like makeover soon I'm afraid. I believe bud is up to it, but something has to be done to correct this problem with running quarterbacks. Perhaps personnel is the probable, but it feels more like scheme.
We're going to have as large a dline as we ever have next year. If he wants a scheme change to move away from our smaller faster attack, he has a chance for it
It is honestly hard for me to get excited about winning the Coastal division. I know Frank likes to stake his reputation to how many division titles he can accumulate, but it really doesn't matter as long as the division is so pitiful. Perhaps if the ACC didn't stink up so many of these "exhibition games," doing well in the conference would actually mean something.
...I am borderline disgusted with this team. This isn't the year we were supposed to lose to a REBUILDING aac team.
You can say we lost to a team, but really we lost to Summers. He's a dude.
Let's check back in December and see if he does this to other teams, or if it's just us.
I'm sure he'll do it to an extent. Probably not 169 rushing yds, though. People now know about him and what he can do. Plus they likely won't have to tackle him in a monsoon. He's a player and I'm sure he'll drop some numbers this season, but either way he embarrassed us.
I think nothing short of a coastal championship keeps his job. You can't say OOC doesn't count and not deliver on the one thing you say is important
In a nutshell. Look, I've said it before, regardless of context I vehemently disagree with Beamer's statement and believe that Whit (and the Uni Prez) should verbally chew him out and correct him. But I don't think he needs to step down nor should he be shitballed.
I'm trying to write this with a level head. I love Beamer. He is one of the most respected figures in college football today. He's won more games than any active coach, and he's done it the RIGHT way. I WANT to take his comment in the best possible light, but when all is said and done, he's been the VT coach for 29 years (and coaching longer than that). When you speak to the media, your statements should not be dubious. They should be well thought out, and CLEARLY reflect your intentions. I hope and pray Beamer meant something better than the quote the media is reacting to. I also think that he made a verbal screw up equal to the magnitude of the crappy product we saw on the field saturday.
The problem is, it wasn't just said once. He said it to the team, the media overheard it, questioned him on it, and he reiterated what he said. He had the opportunity to clarify and didn't.
Not what you want to hear a coach saying after a game like that.
I could be wrong, but I don't believe this was a case where the media overheard his statement, then asked for clarification. Reporters aren't allowed in the locker room after a game. There's a short "cool down" period for the coaches and players, then they are made available to the media. Beamer's quote either came from a post-game statement, or was part of a response to a reporter's question.
Regardless, I can't think of a scenario where a coach with over 35 years of experience believe that those words should EVER leave his lips (at least in that order). He not only manages a team, he's the face of a brand. I hope Whit is livid
The fact that we don't know this for sure on a Monday is unsettling to me.
MRW I see the comments on this article:
Calm down people.
Well, Duke just beat GT...I don't know how they did it, but if we can't beat the Jackets we'll certainly know a few more things about this (post-preseason) team. Pitt is...Pitt.
Since hearing these comments have decided not to buy tickets or attend the preseason " Exihibiton game at Bristol".
So costing the program money is your way to get the AD to spend millions on hiring a new coach?
Yes! !!!!!!!!
Beamer cost the program money with his comments. This is the fallout because of it. You cant blame someone for not wanting to spend a 300$ weekend for a coach that doesn't care
I know Beamer's comment sounded like that, but I don't think that's really what he meant.
He's trying to look forward to the rest of the season, and downplay the dumpster fire that was that game.
To me it just Highlights the lack of fire burning inside CFB these days. Sometimes you gotta throw your headset and get angry i used to see that from the staff now not so much, it may be time for a change before it gets too far gone and we are loluva.
I have a feeling that sometime this week there will be a clarification of what Frank said and what Frank meant to say. I can't imagine anyone on this blog has never said something that might have been taken the wrong way. I know I can't say that.
Does the program need to go in another direction? Maybe and maybe sooner than later. I say that by looking at the last 4 yeaars. A trend has definately started and it will not change over night. It looks to be righting itself but it will take time. Time and energy that Fraank may or may not have. But I am in it for the long haul, because when it is good, it feels real good.
Which is why I just renewed Golden Hokie status. We may never get back to the NCG but if we do I don't want to be called a band wagon fan.
GO HOKIES!!!!
This is the way to do it. Pulling financial support from the program is only going to hurt it over the long haul.
I am not overly concerned with the comments. As a sports fan, I understand what he was saying. If the goal is still to win the ACC, it starts next week. I don't think he was saying that OOC are meaningless, but rather that their affect on the goal of winning the ACC is not affected. It did not appear that VT was phoning it in to ECU, they just got beat by a team that wanted it more, executed in timely spots, and got a little bounce luck on some key plays.
With that being said, I am more concerned with the overall trends. VT is a .500 ballclub against Power 5 teams the last 3-4 years IIRC. Add this year to it, and we are 1-2. No bueno.
I remember a few years back when they treated the Bowl Games like a well deserved vacation BEFORE the game was played. It seemed to me that the focus should not be to coast to the finish line, but finish strong and then celebrate the real end of the season.
Last year there seemed to be a different focus on the Miltary Bowl prep last year, or I just imagined there was.
I imagine there would be when you're facing your first losing season in 22 years. Same with the Rutgers bowl game two years before.
If I could make a somewhat off-topic meta suggestion, I think it might be time for TKP to institute some way to differentiate editorial posts from articles. A lot of the discord in these comments stems from the accusation of lazy reporting, but this isn't really reporting at all. It's editorializing.
The stated goal of TKP is to become the best source of information and journalism on Virginia Tech football and basketball. News sources need both articles and editorials. Both add value. Right now, the editorials are presented in the same format as the articles. I know your tag says "EDITOR," Joe, but I think TKP might further benefit from having a more immediately appreciable way to distinguish which type of piece the reader is being presented with. Your
hot takesinitial game reactions (see edit in my comment below and mea culpa for being unintentionally insulting), Pierson's "Slept On It" feature, Foe'rensics could all be tagged as editorials, while Mason and French's analysis and Joel's "By the Numbers" could carry the article tag. I think reader perception and reaction will be properly adjusted if they know going in whether they're reading something that's being presented as a journalistic article or an opinion piece.This was supposed to be anything but a hot take.
Edit: Your original point stands though. It is something worth exploring in the offseason. Admittedly, I would like for the style of writing to convey to the reader the tone and point of our posts. I don't want to spoon feed people.
Sorry, bad wording on my part. I was just listing off the various pieces that are regulars on this site and dividing them into editorial vs article categories. You do hot takes. This wasn't one. A lot of the times you'll drop a knee-jerk reaction onto the site immediately following a game. You did it for Purdue. This was a way better formulated piece than those, but my point still stands.
What I wrote after Purdue were notes from the game based on what I saw from the pressbox.
I just want to chime in and say that while this article may be one of the more controversial ones on the site recently, I hope that you never stop being honest in your replies!
All right, man. Just a suggestion.
ALSO... I just now realized the term "hot take" is considered derisive, and I apologize about that. I have always used that term interchangeably with "knee jerk" or "initial impression," and just now Googled it and realized it's considered a criticism. This was NOT my intent, and I now realize why that probably pissed you off. I won't ever get those terms confused again.
I think it's a very valid suggestion and I appreciate you bringing it up. It's been added to what I will look at in the offseason.
Edit: I ain't mad at you. What I wrote after Purdue was definitely an initial impression.
Ed Sheeran has gone full creeper in this gif.
Just a thought and not meant to piss off anyone...
Maybe we should have the trophy case in the locker room along with the phrase "Every Game Matters"
I feel a profound sadness for the entirety of our university athletic department every time I see the Empty Trophy Case.
But damn if that isn't a great image macro.
Yes Joe every game matters. Which is why in your non-conference you play two B1G teams and then Furman and.... Bi-directional Virginia Mothers of the Poor and Forsaken University (BVMPafU). Not a "can't wait to beat big boys" ECU. If your team is not that good, the conference schedule will bear that out.
ECU is VT 20 years ago. Many a "P5" team had Saturday's like ours against VT.
Hype train fell off the rails Saturday in Greenville
that's a nice way of putting it...
What was Beamer supposed to say to his team after a loss to ECU? He didn't say that the game wasn't important, he said that an ACC game is more important, which isn't wrong. It's a young team that still has a ton of potential and I feel he was trying to get the point across that the season isn't over because of the outcome of this game.
upvote for downvote. nobody should be downvoting this.
I think what he should be saying is that the preparation, execution and coaching was inexcusable. that the team at this stage shouldn't be having these types of penalties in every game. that this game as with every game is one that we should take serious enough to win. that to achieve what we want at VT we need to come prepared and bust our ass to win no matter who we are playing, where we are playing and when we play them.
I agree with the team's potential though. But potential is something that needs to be fostered and coached fervently through hard work and execution, or all it will ever be is something to hope for.
I agree that he should address the media about all of the above, and it was inexcusable. Following an emotional loss does not feel like the best time to lecture the team on penalties and missing assignments though. Get back to Blacksburg, watch the game again and then work on improving for the next week.
I really feel that the timing of this has it blown way out of proportion.
agreed. It's also not the time to tell them that the game is a preseason game that doesn't matter if we win either.
What I stated is what I expect him to say to the media. Not making excuses.
That's fair.
I don't truly believe that he didn't think that the game mattered whether they win or lose rather that it's not an ACC game and to keep their heads up, the season isn't over.
This is ultimately how I hope the team received his message, whether he stated it correctly or not.
yeah, as I stated before I can see that he likely misspoke and this very well could be how the team go the message as well. unfortunately it's still not the right thing to say IMO. Every team sport I ever played followed the mentality of the coach and if your coach is providing you with a way to excuse not winning a game we should have won, even if it is actually meant to say we need to look forward to the "more important" conference games, then it makes me worried. but i do understand what you mean.
Despite whatever context you draw, this quote puts a bad taste in my mouth.
Every game is important. A loss to ECU leaves less margin fo error for the rest of the season, especially if we want to improve our overall perception when it is all said and done.
As someone who hasn't jumped on the fire everyone bandwagon maybe I'll explain myself. First I'm not a fan of firing a coach mid season unless he has broken a law, placed the school in horrible PR spot(think PSU or sex scandal) or has done something like had the school placed under NCAA sanctions. Second while I think a coach changing is soon coming I don't believe for one second that just changing the coach is going to equate to a better record in fact, I think the next hire takes at least two years to see some improvements, will the AD and fans ride that time out? I also understand that with the current coaching trends the next hire if he does well will be gone in 3-8 years. VT will see more coaching turnover either fired or hired away in the next 10 years than the last 30. I'm fine with that but I don't think a lot of fans understand the modern world of coaching.
I think Whit will make a great decision in the next coach.
New coaches tend to have a bad year at good schools for a couple of reason's
1. Unable to find an identity and identify as a team with the new coach.
VT has lacked an identity outside the Bear defense for a while now
2. Top players and recruits transfer and leave the team Roster empty of game changing talent
VT Top players are gone this year and next year (Kendall?) and poor recruiting has most players playing at VT because that's where they want to be. This is Home
3. Coaching changes don't align with players recruited to a system
VT players will be just fine with any one besides Paul Johnson. Can you imagine what pass happy coach would do to Ford and Caleb and Phillips outlook on VT
4. Coaches exceeding in the MAC or AAC are brought in to a Power 5 team on great hype from previous results but the tougher competition isnt the same
VT has a pretty weak schedule in the ACC so i don't expect that to hurt DOC HOLIDAY when he comes to VT
Yea it maybe a rough first year but that's a given. If for nothing else it's Time. You get 1 free get by speech about this is a rebuilding season as a tenured coach. Then you have to show results.
Sadly my response almost a yearr ago as Fire Beamer sign holder is just as relevant
You know what, I don't care. I don't care who is coaching this team as long as we are a winner again, or at the very least, you watch the games thinking "we left it all on the field that day, even in a loss". This program feels stale and stagnant right now, and it desperately needs some new blood in it to revitalize what used to be a very proud and successful entity.
And believe me, the only people who don't think VT is a name program are our own fans.
I think VT is a name program. But why would you think filling a coaching vacancy will be any easier for us than teams like texas, Miami, Florida, etc. Beamer's time is ending, but we have to be prepared for the fact that finding elite coaches is a daunting task. My fingers are crossed that whit will get lucky, but it's far from a guarantee that this team will get any better with a change. Change for the sake of change is a lot like what I feel as a skins fan, hope is added for a game or two until I realize they suck again.
Texas is what VT is becoming with that mentality. By the time Brown left Texas was a bad disaster of football.
Hopefully Whit is right on again.It's not about hiring Saban to VT
Look at say Memphis, a basketball school that has a good football team all the sudden.
Michigan St? or Baylor, or Texas A&M
Or what about UCLA, I mean are they a one and done. Quite the history, but look all the sudden they are working back
It's about seeing the coaches that coach at non football schools and show how good they are.
Florida, Texas, and Michigan have huge egos and atmospheres around the Head Coach that adds to the pressure beyond just the normal coach duties.
There are successes and failures, and that was my point. I don't buy the texas argument though. If Brown was the only problem, and they still had the talent, a coaching change would have been effective by now.
The problem with Brown at Texas was he well over stayed and left no one there now for Strong to Coach. This year there is some Top Senior Talent leftover but then there still is the same offensive strugles VT has had followed by a cupboard of 2/3 star back ups. Add in the change in all new coaching and it's going to take a year or 2 and then Texas should be back as Program but still a little ways to be back to powerhouse.
Compared to FSU who saw it was getting in a dead zone and forced a move on the coach
Since 2010 texas has averaged a 247 composite recruiting class ranked 8th. So, which is it, talent or coaching?
Technically not that I would ever endorse another web site especially paid because they think different than us on the TKP. But you can't use 247 rankings here because they mean nothing and are just stars. However in reality:
Mack Brown and his offense are totally different than Charlie Strong and his offense. Sort of like when Loeffler was at Auburn for the one year. It is a square peg round hole situation. In reality any coach will need time to get their system in place and put their recruited players into it. Any new coach should absolutely get a chance to have 5th year seniors that they have recruited as long as the team is getting better every year.
Same deal with rich rod but he wasn't given the time. But, I will change gears, would you be a happy texas fan right now?
Meta Level - Hell yea. I don't follow Texas football to know much to make a good statement on but yea. New AD, New Top Head Coach
I'd actualy relate it to my excitment to VT basketball. Had I not had a costly car repair come up I was going to be a season ticket holder for 4 games tops just to support the change. But have to fix my car first. This year I'm looking to get tickets
What level of a name program do you think we are? Who are our peers? Certainly not Texas, Michigan or USC
I think Clemson, Oregon, Mich St., TCU and Baylor as of late, Wisconsin, and Stanford are all similar level name programs. We're obviously not a historic blueblood like Texas, OSU, USC, Michigan, Bama, etc. But like the programs I previously mentioned, we've had a great deal of success, won conference championships, appeared in and have won some big bowls, and have been in the hunt for the title before. If our whole program were rated like a recruit, we're definitely not a five star, but a solid four star program. Haven't played up to that level recently, however.
And all of those programs hired low key coaches that fortunately turned out to be great after slow starts, except for Oregon and Stanford, who a strong case could be made are still riding the success of the previous coach. None of them had a slam dunk hire like some of us expect.
Btw the way, using the phrase "as of late" defeats the purpose of talking about what level your program is. Program power isn't that fluid. Despite being good for four years, Baylor is still on the lower end of the football spectrum and would never compete for a coach with someone like Oregon.
I used "as of late" to disclaim that their historical success does not match up to ours, but that they have very quickly become an known name, Baylor specifically with RG3 and their other recent success. And Baylor has tons of big Texas cash, so I'm sure they could offer a competitive salary.
Whether or not we hire a huge name coach to eventually succeed Beamer, I think the status of our program and brand name is strong enough to attract some great candidates, and I think we can make a good enough offer to generate great interest in the job.
I trust Whit completely. I just don't think there will be a coaching hire we could land that fans would immediately fall in love with.
throwing gas on a fire here, but Loeffler?
edit: not saying Loeffler should be the next Head Hokie...just pointing out that he's the type of coach we'll probably get. Lots of skepticism around his 2.33 year tenure here so far.
What is that in context to? Him being hired as our OC a few years ago? Or moving forward to be our HC?
Edit: I think well get a coordinator better than Lefty for HC. His resume was fine moving from OC to OC, but whoever we get for HC will have to have a better resume to make the jump to HC.
My point is we're not going to get a home run hire IMO. We're going to get a guy who will undergo a ton of scrutiny and, honestly, will probably under perform for his first couple of years. VT is going to undergo a significant culture change whenever Beamer steps down. For better or for worse, that change is going to result in some growing pains. We're not magically going to cure all ills with a new HC. If you think it's rough now, prepare yourself for that time when Beamer is sitting on the couch on Saturdays. It's not going to be a fun ride. I can promise you that.
I tend to disagree with this assessment. We have no idea who Whit will hire, so we can't completely dismiss the possibility of landing a really good coach. It really sells our program and Beamer's legacy short to think there wouldn't be some good candidates interested in the job. Also, I don't quite understand the notion that the bottom is going to completely fall out when Beamer leaves, and that no one will be able to win in Blacksburg not named Frank Beamer. I'm sure there will be some growing pains, but what do I see right now? Going on four years of "growing pains." The same maddening inconsistencies and sloppy play that have plagued us for a while now. And, in light of all that adversity, we've still had enough talent to make our low point at or above .500. I just can't subscribe to the notion that there is nowhere to go but down after Beamer leaves. I'm not calling for Beamer to leave now, but I don't understand the rationale behind what you're saying.
Resources. Unless we get a diamond-in-the-rough up-and-coming type of coach on the cheap we're going to struggle to get a top tier coach to Blacksburg. That's just a simple fact. The Hokie Club has less than 10000 members. The cashflow from the fanbase is an absolute trickle at the moment. I have faith that Whit is going to get that turned around but that will take time...lots of time. In the meantime, we're going to be shopping for a new coach in the not-too-distant future with a limited budget.
Culture. When Frank leaves, the culture that he's built leaves with him. A new coach will come in and he'll bring with him a new culture. That culture will be a shock to the system and it will take players, fans, and coaches time to adjust. Frank has done a great job to build something from nothing and I do believe that he'll leave behind a decent foundation but any time you have major turnover at the top there is going to be some turmoil before the sailing gets smooth. The culture will change with the new Head Hokie, and that change isn't going to happen over night. It's not going to happen in 1 off season. It's not going to happen in 1 year. It will take time. Don't forget that when Beamer took the reigns at Tech almost 30 years ago it was a brutal struggle for a few years before things started looking up.
Precedent. Scot Loeffler's tenure here to-date is foreshadowing for what's to come with the changing of the guard. He had different circumstances to work with but everything I've mentioned is relevant to his time on campus. His resources were limited and he came in with a new and different culture. Look at how much toil and strife our offense went through (is going through?) in his first 2 years. Things are starting to look better now, but it has been far from smooth sailing these first couple of years. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a very similar trajectory for the new Head Coach.
I would be absolutely thrilled to bring in someone who will start winning big immediately. Realistically, though, I just don't see it happening. How many programs around the country have brought in a new coach to a program that has been run by the same guy for more than 5 years and seen immediate results? Nick Saban's first year in Tuscaloosa ended 7-6. Even great coaches need some time to get things working.
One thing that cannot be overlooked is the impact that a new coach/regime would have on donations. I'm sure a good bit of the reason that Hokie Club memberships and contributions have stalled or been reduced is coming from a lack of faith in the current staff. Whenever Whit hires the next guy, I'm sure he will sell this as a fresh, new era for VT football and really work the donors. I think he can get the right caliber guy to do that. We're not going to get Nick Saban, but I feel we're going to get a quality coach that may be better than what some expect. I feel comfortable that we could offer someone in the $3-3.5 mil range. I don't think Whit is afraid to overspend for someone he feels will elevate the program and bring in more donors. He swung for the fences in basketball, and we got a coach no one thought would ever come here. A shock to VT football culture might not necessarily be a bad thing, either. As I said, I'm not asking Beamer to leave today. But we're starting to see a pattern of mistakes and problems that aren't being addressed or corrected. There may be growing pains with a new coach's culture, but I'm not convinced the coaching culture right now is completely working. I trust Whit to make the best decision when that time comes. He's going to do his due dilligence with this hire, and it will be the biggest move of his administrative career.
I'm not a business man but I'm not sure that's a wise risk for Whit to make. He tried that out with the hiring of Buzz, and even then, I'm not sure it resulted in the jolt of donations he was hoping for. Does he try the same thing again with a football coaching hire? I have my doubts.
And even the great coaches like Saban need time to rebuild. I already made a note of that in my previous comment.
I completely agree. I'm not advocating that Beamer should be ousted this season. I'm also not advocating that Beamer should be pampered for the next 10 years. I like Beamer and respect him. At some point, though, he will no longer be the coach at VT. When that happens, we're going to be in for a ride.
I agree with you on this. All I'm saying is that when that change happens Virginia Tech is not going to become a world beater winning ACC CGs and getting playoff berths right off the bat. It's going to take some time and people are going to need to have patience. We're not going to get an Urban Meyer to Blacksburg without a boatload of luck. Don't expect one. What I'm expecting is a coach with some experience and maybe some ties to the area who will come in and rebuild on top of what Beamer has left behind. The next coach will be fortunate that he won't have a dumpster fire to fix, but we're not going from 6-8 win seasons to 10+ win seasons over night.
Actually Hokie Club membership has gone up the last few years. It is still pitiful and always has been. Even on here many people just won't join for some reason.
HokieClub isn't just for football right? so we could be seeing some uptick since the new hire for Basketball and the excitement that's trickling down.
Of course but the biggest revenue generator at VT has always been football. Now with the number of people on the interwebz claiming they will no longer donate what do they think will happen when it comes time to hire a new coach, upgrade facilities, increase Olympic sports spending or any number of other things the Hokie Club does. Pulling money from the school is short sighted and kind of juvenile.
Kinda, except til you consider that since the product on the field has already caused VT to now lose $5.3 million since the sellout ended due to on field performance issues. Now that's 5.3 million just in ticket sales not including the loss in concession sales or the loss in Hokie Club losses also. If Frank wants to do what is best for VT then maybe he should make some changes to actually make that back
Bring it on. A young up and coming full of energy coach.
Can't wait. Let him be here 7 or 8 years and start the search over again.
and last year he was a top 5 team.
2016 7-6 with no improvement with Beamer or 7-6 with a new culture and new energy.
I think that most of the fanbase would be ok with one of the following coaches. I would suggest if you don't like these names to do some research on each one and come up with who you would like to see.
1. Kyle Whittingham - Utah Utes HC
2. PJ Fleck - Western Michigan HC
3. Tom Herman - University of Houston HC
4. Justin Fuente - Memphis HC
5. Chad Morris - SMU HC
6. Charlie Strong - Texas HC (if he gets shitcanned.)
7. Rich Rodriguez - Arizona HC if all else fails
Whittingham has no reason to leave. Fleck and Fuente are promising, but need this year to be the leap forward for them. Herman and Morris are 3 games into their HC career so I don't buy them as anything but a hot name. I would actually love Strong. I think his no bullshit attitude would work great with Tech fans and lowered expectations from Texas might help just like RichRod from Michigan.
Whittingham - $2 million annual salary, could have about 3.5 million reasons to leave. Also it doesn't matter if he is Mormon there is a pretty good size Mormon community around here. Also Urban Meyer coaching Tree
Fleck - $800,000 per year
Yea he would be cheap.
Justin Fuente - Annual salary $1,400,000
Fleck is a high energy guy.. his team seems to really buy into the "row the boat" theme .. our team can barely buy into an exhibition game.
they played Michigan State and OSU pretty well this year.. so you know they get up for big games
I enjoy watching Western Michigan play. He runs the offense I envision us running. Reminds me alot of Michigan State.
agreed.. I will for sure try to catch more WM games this year if possible. They're highly touted to win the MAC this year.
You can go back and watch them on Youtube. It might not look as good since they have played OSU and MSU. I just wish they would have showed up for GA Southern. However GA Southern is a very good team. But you know #exhibitiongames
This week is the week to start watching them though. They start with their conference schedule this week.
I don't want Fleck. Not for any good reason, I just think his Row The Boat thing is dumb.
Going to need to see how Morris does at SMU but I don't think you'd see anyone complaining if we got him. VT fans have been craving offense for a long time.
and now it looks like we might be getting one..
I agree that it looks like Loeffler is taking us in the right direction. But Morris is just in a different class.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have Morris in Blacksburg. I just don't see it happening. He's back in Texas now and I think that's where he wants to be. He's from there, went to High School and College there and he's currently coaching there. It would be a pretty hard sell to get him to Bburg IMO
I also agree with this.. Texas is a perfect state in terms of a geographical recruiting location. Close to GA, SC, FL, NC and he can even sneak a couple up north trips to steal the talent.
RichRod is getting shares in a master limited partnership that might make his contract more valuable than anyone else in college football. He'd have to take a massive prospective pay cut to come to VT.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2083140-rich-rodriguezs-unorthodox-ne...
I've pointed this out multiple times now but there seems to be a RichRod fan club that just wants to believe he would leave a one of a kind, never done before, most lucrative bonus in the history of college football coaching ever payments to come coach for staggeringly less money at VT.
I absolutely would not want Rich Rod other than us just having no other choice.
What, the, actual fuck.
Dear Frank, You broke our first rule
Bobby Bowdens last 4 years 7-6, 7-6, 9-4, 7-6
Frank Beamers last 4 years 7-6, 8-5, 7-6, 2-2 (tbd)
dont let it get messy liked FSU did after the season politely step aside its time, Thank you for all you have done for the university.
Remember when our beloved Hokies would beat teams in the middle of a hurricane and wouldn't let something as minor as a carolina monsoon slow them down. Yeah, those were the days.
Yeah, I do. We lost to UVA that year too... #ijs
The fact that I can go back in my comments just in the last 52 weeks to
this http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2015/january/9/realistic-expectations and http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2015/january/7/still-hating-scot-loeff... also http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2014/december/27/gut-reactions-are-you... or http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2014/november/22/post-wake-disaster-br...
or http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2014/october/24/does-beamer-still-dese...
and finally, one year ago
http://www.thekeyplay.com/content/2014/september/20/let-meltdown-begin
All this kinda seems like Frank will survive and move on as we continue to accept mediocrity for going to a bowl
https://twitter.com/Delltron5/status/648566167360024576
I always thought this pic was cool. From the NCAA Football 13 box.
LMAO...yea, I probably should re-word that.
Getting back to the discussion regarding Frank and how he said what he said. I just finished watching Tyrod's game against the Dolphins and first off, wow. Tyrod is killing it. Love seeing him play like that.
Second is reading the response that the Miami coach had to that drubbing and how it contrasts to Beamer. here are Philbin's comments:
If Beamer had managed to say anything close to this just think how different the boards would be this week. yes, we lost but it wouldn't have been exacerbated by such a willfully dumb comment. In fact, some statement like this probably would have taken the edge off the loss.
While I agree with you in part, I'm not sure the reaction on the boards would be much different. I think the vast majority of those that are calling for Beamer to step down would still be doing so. Surely, some would not be so eager to react the way they have this week, but overall the reaction on TKP would be very similar, IMO.
Personally, I think everyone is overreacting. I understand those that are ready for the transition to take place. What I don't understand is everyone claiming that Beamer doesn't have any fire or competitiveness left, and that he has grown complacent. It was one loss to ECU, and honestly his demeanor with the media has always been the same.
I think his steady and even attitude has done more good for the program than it has bad. I don't doubt one bit that our players and staff aren't playing with fire, urgency, and a competitive spirit. I think we need to give Beamer a lot of credit for how he has tried to get things back on track the last few seasons. The offense seems to be be getting really close, and the hire of Lefty is starting to pay off. What is holding us back this season, our D, cannot be blamed on Beamer; nobody saw that coming. Bud needs to the right the ship.
Something has to happen with the RB rotation. An RB coach can only do so much to coach physicality and raw talent, but running with proper vision, when/where/how to make the right cuts, that is where an RB coach is supposed to have an impact. That seems to be holding us back, and I think we have to put that on Shane. Putting some of the blame on CFB may be fair in this case, because I'm not sure he is holding Shane accountable.
Back to the main point, I'm not going to let coach speak bother me. Beamer isn't tasked with pleasing fans with his media comments, he is tasked with pleasing fans with W's. Our players and coaches want to win, they're plenty ticked off by the loss; any comments Beamer makes to the media aren't going to change that.
Overreacting maybe...but we know what we see. When Steinspring was struggling as the O-Coordinator, it took CFB a super long time to finally do something. Then trying to hide the stink by having Mike O'Cain call the plays. If a coach isn't up to snuff, it is ultimately the head coaches job to fix it, not let it sit.
Just give the other coaches the keys and let it ride huh?
Yes, O'cainspring was struggling, but we were winning 10 games per season. Hard to overhaul your offensive staff when you're winning like that. Beamer is loyal to fault, yes, but making those changes was a big gamble considering the overall success we were having. I think we are in a different situation right now, but I agree, Beamer needs to hold Shane accountable and make something happen. That being said, the mobile QB situation is equally frustrating. I'd like to think Bud is holding Bud accountable, but man, it has happened too many times.
If Bud can get the D to perform the way we thought they would, the O continues to improve, I still like our chances in the ACC. One thing is for sure, the rest of the season will be a roller coaster.
That was aweful coach speak. And again it was Beamer not taking responsibility as the Head Coach.
If that's the gauge, then its time to pack it up and retire. 24 - 19 as we start the 4th year
1 bad year is a rebuilding year. 2 bad years is resetting the team. 3rd bad year...umm...it's bad..but 4th years got to be great, right...come on best year ever. 4th year starting bad...it's time to go ahead and pack up. I really think that would spark the team and the fans also
I know what you're saying. beamer has always been fairly calm after games. I actually have never had a problem with that. What I take issue with is what he is saying. I really don't like the message. I don't need him to come out yelling and screaming and throwing a hissy fit. But i would like to hear him state that he isn't pleased with this and knows that everyone needs to do better and not just look past it to the next thing. That's the Marcus Davis approach to coaching, and I throw up in my mouth when I just said that.
I think if Beamer came out and said something that was talking about accountability rather than the level of importance of one type of game over the next then a lot of fans, including myself, would see that fire burning inside. right now, it comes across the exact opposite.
If you are familiar with my posts I am very pro-Beamer and pro-coaches. I am still pro-Beamer. But he needs to help himself look better and through that his team look better. part of that job he is paid to do is present the right public face to the media, fans and boosters. And this year has been gaffe after gaffe.
I have long been a supporter of Lefty. And I have long derided our defenses inability to contain mobile QBs. I agree with you on Shane. I want to see one back take majority of snaps and see what happens good or bad.
This. 1,000,000 times this. I'm not overly concerned that he said what he did after the ECU game. This has been his policy all along, and I have voiced my displeasure and disagreement with this policy before. My biggest worry is that time and time again, we're in the media for the wrong reasons, and it has nothing to do with player transgressions or play on the field. From a PR standpoint, our coaching staff has been a disaster this year. From the COA fines to Bud publicly throwing Torrian under the bus to this, it seems like the only time people are talking about us is when they're discussing what stupid thing our coaches are doing and saying this time. Not a good look.
I think this is a good place to communicate a thought I had this morning. It goes along with what you're saying here, but stop me if I'm projecting here. If I'm talking out my butt here we can shut it down. But here goes....
I was thinking about CJ Reavis. We don't have much information to go off of, but it seems like he was kicked out of school for some BS reason. It seemed like CJ was the linchpin of our secondary. Without him, everything Bud had worked toward putting in place went out of whack and had to be reworked.
Is it possible that deep in Bud's mind as well as other coaches, they are thinking along the lines of, "Well, if the school is going to kick my kids out of school for things that don't warrant being dismissed, they are sabotaging my efforts to succeed. Why should I give 100% if my employer is going to take away my best resources?"
Maybe hindsight is 20/20 here, but I have to think that the loss of Reavis at the hands of the school, and the setback it cause on defense has to affect the morale of the defensive coaches.
Using the same sources as you (i.e. none) I think you're onto something, but you took it a different direction from me.
At the time Reavis was dismissed I heard several rumors about conflict among teammates. Reavis was dismissed, and the remaining teammates don't seem to be playing together as a unit. Part of that is probably football -- Reavis had a specific way of playing his assignments, his replacements play a little differently, so there are gaps. Part of it may be emotional -- guys don't trust each other, don't like each other, feel betrayed, or whatever.
to add onto this.. 1 student athlete also transferred within weeks of the announcement that Reavis was in trouble and ultimately kicked out of school.. saw multiple players on twitter and instagram with some very interesting comments that we all could have looked into but thankfully we didn't because it would have got nasty..
said transferred player is still playing DE position that he was asked to switch here so we now that wasn't the reason he left..
The problem is we don't know what petty issue it was about and that makes it seem like it wasn't really that petty
Also Bud's only real shot at Head Coach is here so if he doesn't like the VT Honor Code or feels he is above it then maybe he should think about that and go a head and call it quits.
If all of us don't want to join the SEC for there perceived lack of Honor and rules why are we so hung up on bending the rules for our players. Multiple VT admin officials are involved in the appeals process for CJ. Frank could request the President of the University to step in. Somebody knows its to big for that. The Shai case was reviewed with and agreed to previous punishment in a meeting with the AD. But all of this makes the SEC look like a better conference for us i guess
As for losing a star player and it ruining your season maybe we should re-evaluate the Ohio State win. I mean they lost their Star quarterback to play against us. There were excuses said, but at the next game the team coaches knew what the goal was and adapted.
And yea OSU out recruits us but Bud's D is specific on who plays where. It relies on VT not getting top recruits but getting guys that can be coached to the position. Kyle Fuller is the Bud Defense. 3 star player that was coached up over the years
and the Mike LB is the piece that sets the front side.. Without a Fuller and a legit Mike we're in big big trouble.
Remember when news broke that the football players were disrespectful and disruptive at some event related to Domestic Violence. I cannot remember the exact name of the event. I always had it in the back of my mind that the player that transferred testified to student council about Reavis' comments and/or behavior at that event. This is all speculation, of course, but a real possibility. I have a gut feeling that is what happened, especially with the outcry from the student body/collegiate times that football players needed to be held accountable. Perhaps that is why the student council felt obligated to send Reavis packing.
But underage sex gets a one game suspension? Seems a bit of a stretch.
except that there is no way causing a disruption, even with saying sexist shady remarks would be cause for expulsion.
Wouldn't that be a pretty open and shut 1st Amendment violation? Pretty sure as a public institution they're not allowed to bar someone from campus like that for something they say. Private institution, sure, but VT isn't private.
no, not that simple I would think. When you become a student you willingly enter into agreement to abide by it's rules of conduct. Any type of hate or discrimination filled speech would fall into violation of that code of conduct. However, I know personally that a straight expulsion for off color, rude, crude, disgusting, whatever remarks at an organized event has not garnered an expulsion before. So I think if that was the case and he really wanted to sue then he would have a case because the track record of whether students doing the same would not be uniform.
But remember the lawyer's reaction? And he said they were looking into options, but it seemed Reavis decided to take the high road, go JUCO, and reopen his recruitment. He had options, and maybe this was just the cleaner less controversial way for him to go.
I agree, could be a stretch, but the thought came to my mind, so I wanted to share.
totally, and I appreciate you sharing.
I have just been a party to these proceedings and seen students get expelled for various things. And get probation for many, many other things. If this did go down like that then it's grievous and starkly outside the norm. I REALLY hope that was not the case, especially being that it was brought down by the student board.
Thanks for the insight. Either way, wish Reavis was still with the team. We could use him right about now. Looking forward to seeing where he ends up.
100% agree. Hope CJ has great success, but wish so much he was here with us instead
Damn I just saw Tyrod's stats from the Miami game. Nicely done, Tyrod
I blame Matt Ryan for all of this #fuckMattRyan
Watching what Summers did to our defense then watching the Sirk kid playing quarterback for Duke. I'm frankly a lil worried about that game. It could get ugly. Hopefully Bud comes up with a hell of a game plan.