
Analyzing Virginia Tech's 28-35 loss at East Carolina proved to be one of the most frustrating Sunday afternoons I spent watching tape since I started writing for The Key Play in 2011. Many things that concerned me before the game came to fruition: the rainy weather proving advantageous for the Pirates; offensive efficiency with Motley at quarterback lacking in critical moments; the movement of ECU's defense causing the Hokies' offensive line to run block hesitantly; and Tech's defensive ends getting sucked inside on inside zone leaving the edge open. Even with all that factored, I still expected Virginia Tech to win the game primarily because I felt that quarterback Blake Kemp and the East Carolina offense could not be as efficient as they were in last year's victory in Blacksburg. Little did I know that Kendall Fuller would miss the game after the athletics department came clean that he has been hampered by a knee sprain since camp. After the Hokies jumped out to a 14-0 lead, Fuller's absence was the first domino in a chain of events that produced a 28-35 loss that left all of Hokie Nation, including myself, searching for answers.
The film provided some insights and little consolation. The Hokies deployment of personnel and scheme provided East Carolina with several distinct advantages, and the Pirates' coaching staff attacked Tech's weak points again and again. I cannot recall a game where the Hokies' defense put their opponent in more third-and-long situations only to see the offense convert time and time again. Every one of the five ECU touchdown drives featured a conversion where the offense faced a 3rd-and-7 or worse:
- First TD drive: 14-yard completion to Bryce Williams on 3rd-and-7;
- Second TD drive: 19-yard completion to Trevon Brown on 2nd-and-26 followed by a 15-yard completion to Davon Grayson;
- Third TD drive: a 30-yard completion to Quay Johnson on 3rd-and-13;
- Fourth TD drive: a 26-yard TD completion to Isaiah Jones on 4th-and-12;
- Fifth TD drive: a rush for 12 yards by James Summers on 3rd-and-8;
Tech's defense had five opportunities to get off the field and failed all five times. This kind of conversion rate on third-down-and-long defies logic, and is more vexing when you watch how easily (often without looking to a second progression) that ECU's quarterbacks were able to convert. Missed opportunities for the defense to get off the field (coupled with Stroman's dropped interception, Alexander's fumble recovery that was overturned, and the dropped punt that got knocked through the end zone) are the type of errors that inevitably come back to bite a football team right in the derriere. Bud Foster and the defense left Greenville with teeth marks right in their behinds.
Perhaps more discouraging for me wasn't the X's and O's. Often, the scheme was executed correctly, the correct players were in position to make plays, and those players didn't put the runner on the ground or make a play on the football. Far too often, I saw the best players not pursuing the football with the vigor that I am accustomed to seeing from Virginia Tech defenses. Injuries at key positions and a lack of depth may be contributing factors; yet the best players have to dominate. With the exception of Luther Maddy and Corey Marshall completely taking away the interior for running back Chris Hairston, the Hokies' defense looked outclassed by the Pirates' offense on Saturday.
The Isolation of Greg Stroman
Before the weather turned sour, ECU clearly identified attacking sophomore corner Greg Stroman as a critical component to digging themselves out of a 0-14 hole. Terrell Edmunds had worked in place of Fuller through the practice week while Stroman worked at nickel. According to Mike Barber of the Richmond Times, even Bud Foster was surprised when Stroman was sent out at boundary corner.
"I didn't know until the beginning of the game. We were planning on playing him," Foster said. "They injected him this week. He was feeling pretty good in the morning but when we went out on the field, it just didn't feel very good."
Foster said the team had worked freshman Terrell Edmunds at Fuller's corner spot during the week and said it was defensive backs coach Torrian Gray's decision to use sophomore Greg Stroman there in the game.
"We'd had Terrell Edmunds who had been practicing all week and Torrian came up to me right there before the game and said we're going to go with Stroman," Foster said. "On his behalf, he hadn't practiced corner all week. We've been playing him at nickel all week. Hindsight being 20-20, we probably would have been better off either playing Terrell or we ended up going with (Donovan) Riley there more in the second half."
East Carolina used trips receivers to the field side, and the Hokies responded by playing both free safety Chuck Clark and rover Adonis Alexander to the field. Kendall Fuller is a proven talent playing on an island, but Stroman struggled in the spring and against Ohio State in man coverage. Alexander's inexperience perhaps dictated the staff wanted to stick with the original game plan rather than risk confusing the true freshman with adjustments on the fly; however it put Stroman at a huge disadvantage against ECU's big, physical, and experienced outside receivers. The Pirates started off isolating 6-6, 258 pound tight end Bryce Williams one-on-one against the lithe Stroman. If you look to the field side, you find five coverage players (Huelskamp, Alexander, Clark, Reynolds, and Facyson) to account for three receivers. Back to the boundary you have Stroman and Deon Clarke man-to-man against Williams and Hairston.
Stroman has no safety help, so he has to play outside leverage and give Williams the easy turn in route. Alexander reads the quarterback and gets over quickly to help minimize the damage. If you watch closely, Kemp may have turned this into a great play by being patient. Clarke, despite man coverage responsibility, and no indication of a run by the back, gets sucked inside. Clarke is dead to rights if Kemp is patient and Hairston wheels up field.
Once the ECU coaches saw how the Hokies' defense adjusted to trips, the Pirates isolated their most physically gifted receiver, 6-2, 195 pound Davon Grayson, against Stroman. Again, Alexander is aligned to the field side of the center. Grayson turned Stroman inside out on a slant route and Alexander couldn't get there in time to take away the throw.
I'm almost flabbergasted to say this, but there were only a handful of targets that didn't attack Stroman on the boundary. Foster attempted to adjust. He used Alexander in an underneath zone with Stroman deep, and Stroman gave too much cushion.
Foster tried to use a dime look, using Frye deep and Stroman short.
Again, there is way too much space between Frye and Stroman. Stroman doesn't have responsibility for the short flat (Clarke runs to the flat with the running back) yet he doesn't run closely to the receiver. If Stroman is tighter underneath the receiver, there is no way a quarterback will throw into that window.
None of the adjustments that Foster tried after ECU started to pick on Stroman seemed to work until ECU abandoned the passing game in the 4th quarter. Interestingly, one adjustment I didn't see after East Carolina turned the momentum worked perfectly on the very first play of the game. Stroman showed outside leverage; however he aggressively overplayed the quick slant as soon as the ECU receiver turned to the inside. He could afford to do so because Alexander was playing over the top and gave him help against a slant-and-go (sluggo).
I thought this alignment could have been used when Stroman was isolated later in the game. Stroman looks very comfortable jumping the route and there is little threat from a double move because of Alexander's presence. I kept waiting for the Hokies to turn back to this alignment when the Pirates started targeting Stroman. I am still waiting.
When Stroman was able to deliver tight coverage, ECU's experienced and physical receivers won a simple battle of physics against the undersized young corner. In man coverage, a receiver has the distinct advantage of knowing where the football is, and on an accurate throw there is little that the defender can do if they can't punch the football away before the receiver gets a hand on the ball. On the second ECU touchdown, Stroman made a great effort to get back to the football after a communication error gave Grayson a free release on a fade route. Grayson went up and outmuscled the ball away from Stroman. In the second half, Isaiah Jones overpowered Stroman on two fade routes.
On the backbreaking 4th-and-12 conversion in the 3rd quarter, Foster moved Stroman to the slot and brought six pass rushers to contain Summers' running ability.
Summers never even looked at anyone else. He immediately fired the same fade pass that eviscerated the Hokies' secondary last season; this time targeting Jones in the slot against Stroman. Jones pushed Stroman off balance and made a spectacular catch. Meanwhile, because the Hokies rushed six players, Alexander wasn't in position to help Stroman. He had man coverage responsibility on another receiver. That's a win for the ECU staff. They called a money play at the right time, and lucked out Stroman was shoved down without an offensive pass interference call.
There are too many opportunities to second guess here. Foster could have made the choice to play Alexander deep to help Stroman against trips. Gray could have played Terrell Edmunds, who has looked comfortable when called upon to replace Fuller so far this season. Edmunds also has a bit more stout frame than Stroman. Perhaps Donovan Riley, who had a terrific fall camp, yet seems to be frozen out of the corner rotation, could have provided a calming veteran physical presence when momentum started to swing. Hindsight is 20/20. I do think Stroman will be a good corner at Virginia Tech. He didn't have the experience or the size to hold up against really good receivers isolated like that play after play. Kendall Fuller is "very doubtful" against Pittsburgh. If he is out for any substantial length of time, teams like UNC and Duke that run spread systems are going to copy ECU's model and attack the boundary corner until Stroman or someone else shows the ability to shut it down.
The Secret is Out: Quarterback Counter versus the Hokies' Bear
After East Carolina scored two consecutive touchdowns with Blake Kemp, the rain and wind picked up at Dowdy-Ficklen Stadium. Head coach Ruffin McNeill made a quarterback switch and put the more mobile James Summers in the game. Summers stayed in for the rest of the game and only completed 5 passes, but he rumbled for 169 yards on the ground.
I think opposing offensive coaches have figured out how to use the Hokies' keys in the Bear front against them. A vast majority of Summers' rushing yards came on a quarterback counter lead that worked well for Duke and Boston College against the Bear last season. In 2015, both Ohio State and East Carolina have used the quarterback counter lead to decimate the Hokies. The strength of the counter lead is that, by design, it completely eliminates the Hokies' strength (their defensive line) from the play, and then isolates the backer, the mike, and the safety and forces them to make plays. Those guys are not making those plays.
In the Bear front, down linemen key the offensive linemen. It works well against inside zone plays. The offensive linemen step to their left, and the down linemen try to beat them to the spot. On this particular play, the down linemen see the offensive line step to their right, so the defensive line slants hard to their left to beat them to the spot (especially Ken Ekanem). Against a counter, the step to the right is an influence block. Now Ekanem, Baron, and Maddy are all going to their left, and the ball is going to their right. Dadi Nicolas has edge responsibility to the boundary at the top of the screen and has to confirm that there is no threat of a screen, throwback, or reverse before he can exit that space.
ECU has effectively taken the four best players on the Hokies' defense out of the play. They pull the right guard across to kick out Deon Clarke. The running back takes a counter step and then traps Sean Huelskamp. Finally, Summers takes a counter step and follows his blockers.
While it isn't ideal from a match up perspective, on a chalkboard, the defensive alignment has worked. Foster has three defenders against two blockers and a runner. He counts on the free hitter to make the play. On this particular play, they execute. Clarke squeezes the pulling guard. Huelskamp fills the hole and sticks the running back, and Alexander tackles Summers for a minimal gain. That said, this particular play is a harbinger of what happens if the free hitter doesn't make the tackle. Even doing everything right, Summers slips off of Clarke and almost breaks into the clear. If Clarke doesn't trip him up, Summers has a ton of room.
Now, let's see what happens when everything isn't perfect. ECU runs the exact same play on first down. They target Clarke and the three-technique defensive end (Nicolas) as the weak area. Dadi shoots through the inside gap, however he puts up very little resistance as the right tackle rides him down to the inside.
Clarke does a pretty good job of squeezing the pulling left guard, but he's not the aggressor. Huelskamp fills his gap, yet the running back has just enough momentum to drive Huelskamp a step backwards. Chuck Clark finds himself as the free hitter one-on-one with Summers. Summers has a little more room and leaves Clark grabbing air with a beautiful spin move. Ekanem does a great job of getting back into the play. However, he loses his feet, and his weight isn't enough to drag Summers down. From Pop Warner football on up, kids are taught to keep their feet and drive when tackling. A fundamental lapse by Ekanem and Summers is off to the races.
There's an emerging theme that goes beyond the narrative of "the Hokies can't stop mobile quarterbacks". When the Hokies give up a big run play, it usually means the gap fit responsibility broke down, and the free hitter's best isn't more than the ball carrier's. In the rain, James Summers was better than Chuck Clark on this play. That is a tough pill to swallow, especially given how good Chuck Clark has been over a stretch of the last seven games or so.
Later, ECU runs the same play. This time, Clarke squeezes the play, and Woody Baron slips through on the inside enough to get a hand on Summers.
Clark has an easy tackle on an off balance Summers, yet inexplicably, Clark almost completely misses him. Summers recovers and he is off to the races. Scheme doesn't matter a lick if your players can't put the ball carrier on the ground when they have the opportunity.
If you watch the first of these two big runs closely, Maddy (who was dominant at the point of attack) and Nicolas essentially stop once the play moves away from them. Pursuit has always been a hallmark of Virginia Tech's defense. It is overly simplistic to say that Maddy and Nicolas are not giving maximum effort. I think we finally started to see a defensive front wearing down after playing way more than an ideal amount of snaps against the Furmans and Purdues of the world. Outside of Woody Baron (who didn't have his best game on Saturday), the backup defensive linemen have not been able to give Foster and Charley Wiles quality reps in order to keep their starting group fresh. On Summers' first drive of the game, Wiles substituted in Baron, Nigel Williams and Seth Dooley. Dooley looked slow and robotic in allowing Summers to slip outside on an inside zone read. A few plays later, Baron and Williams both got turned to the sidelines as Summers scampered up the middle on an easy quarterback draw for a touchdown. If Vinny Mihota played, I don't remember seeing him. Those backup defensive linemen have to be more productive or the front-four is going to wear down repeatedly in the fourth quarter this season.
If this loss wasn't painful enough, the Hokies have to regroup and take on a wounded Pitt team in front of a pessimistic crowd at Lane Stadium. Offensively, Pitt is a polar opposite of East Carolina. The Panthers have endured a short-lived quarterback controversy (Nate Peterman is now starter over Chad Voytik), and lurched out of the gate with a 2-1 record against so-so competition. All-world running back James Conner is out for the season with an MCL injury. The Panthers have replaced Conner another bruiser; 6-2, 230 pound redshirt freshman Qadree Ollison. Ollison is averaging over a 100 yards rushing a game via the same off-tackle and power runs that Conner perfected last season. After breaking 100 yards rushing last season against the Hokies, Voytik could come in and give the Panthers a change-up element much like Summers did for East Carolina. Tyler Boyd, one of the best receivers in college football, is likely licking his lips in anticipation of feasting on the Hokies' young corners if Kendall Fuller cannot return to action. Foster, Gray, and the Hokies defensive players must correct the execution errors in their system or find ways to adjust. Otherwise, Pitt could rudely welcome the Hokies to "the regular season".

Comments
Heading into Pitt, it's feeling more and more like this one will be on Motley and Lefty to win for us. I don't expect a strong rebound from the defense against a team that has traditionally mauled us up front. I'd also bet the house we see Voytik at some point, after the running yards he put up last year. I hope Lefty has a solid game plan.
...that is more than Motley runs, Motley runs again, Motley passes. I love what Motley's been doing, don't get me wrong, but it seems like we reverted to our offense of a couple of years ago when it was all on Logan Thomas' shoulders.
I would love to see Travon get 15-20 carries this week(not limited to jet sweeps!), but I guess that's a pipe dream based on what Shane is saying. When Travon does get the ball on something other than a jet sweep, he seems to hit the hole faster and with more pop than JCC or Trey.
If that's what the situation calls for and can win us the game, then I hope that's exactly what Scot calls.
I'll settle for ANY back getting 15-20 carries, but I agree, give McMillian a chance to be the feature back.
Agree strongly on Voytik. In fact, I would think from here on out every team we play is going to have their most mobile QB ready as "plan B" if not "plan A" against us. And having another freshman in at Mike for a half against Pitt does not breed confidence in stopping the run.
So much of this. That or, you know, actually tackle the damn QB.
I believe we've won our last game this year
You do realize UVa is still on the schedule, right?
I believe you're wrong.
I believe we've won our last preseason game this year
FTFY
I upvoted this because somebody downvoted it and you don't downvote for opinions you disagree with, but DAMN, dude. Seriously?
I've been as frustrated with Ken Ekanem as anyone on VT's defense this year. I really expected him to take the next step this year and be an all around great defensive end, but at this point I don't know why he is even on the field. Play after play he was giving up contain and even on obvious passing down he has been almost non-existent as a pass-rush threat. He continually just rushes upfield and allows the OT to usher him past the QB, which even the announcers were commenting on last game for both him and Dadi. I know stroman was the key focus of this article, but he wasn't expected to be a big contributor this year like ken. Him and deon are just not getting it done.
Agree on Ekanem as well. He definitely has the talent, as we saw last year, but after watching him bounce off of Cardale Jones for four quarters then watching him get basically tossed aside by Summers, I'm wondering if he has the strength or proper technique for the position. I think part of it is that teams have learned to use our D-line aggressiveness to their advantage, but Ekanem seems to have a problem with tackling and wrapping up that needs to be addressed post-haste (as do a few other D players).
Why do our DE's seem to crash on the inside zone read when it is their responsibility to contain the qb if he pulls the ball?
The way Bud has us play the zone reads and options is for the DE's to take the dive and then the safety or alley player to take the QB or pitch man.
Not always. DE took the dive vs Purdue. They slow played and forced to keep vs Ohio State. It depends week to week. Ekanem does however have a habit of taking the dive when it sure looks like He should have QB
A few adjustments should resolve the running QB dilemma. First, I would abandon the Bear. A 4-2-5 would be a better option with the personnel we have. I would go to wider splits with the DEs, and have the Backer and Mike crash the inside gaps. That gives us better pursuit and tackling outside to contain, yet the ability to clog holes for them to get backside pursuit on inside runs. As for the 5 on the back end, I would seriously consider Alexander and Clark as ROV-L and ROV-R. Shift one to a Whip-like role depending on which side of O Line is heavy.
I would also be rolling backups in constantly. Wholesale group changes if necessary. Keep things simpler for the pups, and mix it up for the big dogs. We need sure tacklers with good coverage skills and heavy shoulders from here on out. No more experimenting with 168# players being left on an island. Get back to old school 11 men flying to the ball and destroying the opposing O.
Why rolling up the backups? French just said that these were execution errors, what makes you think that our backups are going to be able to make plays that our starters can't (with the exception of Edmunds/Stroman - discussed below)? I don't think this is an 'experiment,' I think this is our identity. We play aggressive, high risk, high reward defense. I agree we need to adjust if our corners can't handle the responsibility, but you can just change an identity in a week.
Also of note, don't forget Foster's comment about Gray choosing to play Stroman (who seems like a good kid who had an awful game), rather than Edmunds. With Kendall likely being out this week, I'm wondering if we see Edmunds, and if we see a major difference (granted it will be a completely different offense).
Not to get further OT, but decisions like Stroman/Edmunds and stories about accidentally ignoring a recruit's mother are reasons why I'm not sold on Gray being promoted to DC over Wiles (in the hypothetical situation Bud becomes HC or goes elsewhere, and both stay).
Why roll in the backups? Our starters are getting worn out. We need to keep our D guys fresh. A half step in the 4th quarter could be the difference in a tackle for loss or a TD. If the O stays on the field and sustains long drives, then the D starters get rest. If not, the coaches have to find a way to get them a blow. How many times has being tired late in the game been a factor because we didn't play our backups? From everything we've been told by multiple outlets, we have several backups who could provide what we need.
I'm not saying to change our identity. I'm saying we should get back to it. Too much experimenting to be something we aren't. If the coaches played a style similar to what I suggested, it would give us the ability to play 8 in the box while having the flexibility of covering multiple WR sets without having to make big personnel changes. We don't appear to have a Whip who can provide us that.
ETA: And I would have Cody Grimm giving a clinic on open field tackling. That dude was money in punishing ball carriers.
Targeting, ejected /s
A leg for you. Well played.
He probably lined-up offsides and caused a PI at some point during the play, too.
If we all remember from the preseason, the strength of this team was going to be the depth of DL. The back-ups were praised at every position. Baron, Williams, Dooley, and Mihota were going to offer very little drop-off in production. Hell, we were even going to be three deep at DT? Now it sounds like they've (unfathomably) regressed in the span of a month to a point where they can't even play a couple downs?! Something stinks here, and I have no explanation for it other than a hype machine that got all of out whack...
There was always going to be a huge drop off after the starting ends. DT depth was supposed to be fantastic.
The coaches seemed to think otherwise before the season started. I'm pretty sure they all said the light had come on for Dooley and that Mihota was a different kind of DE with size during the preseason hype. Maybe they wouldn't split time with the starters, but there seemed to be some sort of indication that they would be able to (at very least) play a series of snaps to give the starters a rest.
Which preseason are you talking about? After Coach Beamers comments Sat., I get confused.
Having Alexander or Clark play closer to the LOS means that you only have one deep guy over the top, at best. Which means that the majority of your corners are left in 1 on 1 coverage, which you mention we should stop doing....
I disagree. It allows you the flexibility to play either against the run or drop in coverage without giving anything up. So far, they Clark and Alexander have shown to be our best tacklers and heaviest hitters in the middle. And we don't have to worry about personnel changes since both have shown they can support in both situations.
been waiting at least 4 years for these adjustments though... I remember when people started noticing how a mobile QB would torch us and were being told that it was an anomaly. And adjustments can be made relatively easily. It was an execution issue only. But it's grown into our defense's most noticeable fault.
I hear you. The biggest issue I've noticed is that we've been snake-bit in the middle D. Other than Kyle Fuller, and sometimes Kyshoen Jarrett, we haven't had guys in the secondary who fit the role to be excellent run stoppers AND pass coverage. RVD has been hurt most of his career, DVD had to quit due to injury, and our secondary has been better at pass pro than run pro. I think the guys who could make the adjustment are here, now.
It's difficult to play defense without linebackers.
Explains a lot of the problems we're having last year and this.
I was roasted by the folks I know for believing this year the O would make a showing equal to or above that of the D. Those holes behind the line in the middle were glaring. Now the whole D just looks disorganized. Bud needs to grab the bull by the balls and squeeze them tight. Stroman starting last week was a master failure when he had not been practicing there.
"Those holes behind the line in the middle were glaring"
^^ Hard to stomach the whole situation. Being fed all off-season that our D could be special.
Simply tackling better may have been the theme for this game, but from what Ive seen the last two years, (teams gashing us repeatedly with big plays) I wholeheartedly feel the scheme/Xs and Os need to change.
Exactly! It makes no sense. It's not even fair to Stroman to put him in such a situation. And why not get Edmunds in there after Stroman was obviously struggling, just to give him a breather if nothing else.
Just another example of many lately of being out coached & out played by another mediocre team.
We were out played, but, with the exception of the personnel decision regarding Fuller's replacement, I'm not sure how much of this was a coaching problem. We put our guys in a position to win, they failed to execute. We had the ECU offense in third and long (or worse) on each touchdown drive. The strategy was sound, the execution was not.
I disagree. Some players were not put in a position to succeed.
Care to elaborate? Who and how?
Stroman - wherever they lined him up
D Line - almost non existent unless RBs are running near our tackles, leads me into
LBs - putting way to much responsibility on a young/weak, hole in our D
edit - Frye starting earlier in the season (was a problem, seemingly fixed now)
Im no expert, so please correct me...
I have faith in Bud, always have, always will. He will figure it out, and I expect a significant improvement this weekend.
I hope you're right! I must confess that, unlike Abraham(Romans 4:20), my faith(in Bud) is wavering.
If being ranked 100+ in penalties isn't a coaching problem then I don't know what is.
The ECU game is the definition of getting out coached. From ECU changing QBs to us not being able to adjust to playing stroman to all the penalties. It's 100% on the coaches.
Well, we also missed a load of tackles, failed to secure three pretty easy turnovers, missed a FG, and dropped a pass on 4th and 2. We were really close to winning that game by 2 scores as well.
Nailed it. They make anyone one of those 5 3rd and long plays and we are having a different discussion today.
That said, there is a balance. Foster put Chuck Clark in position to make tackles. He didn't. He shifted Stroman out of man and gave him double team help. Stroman didn't play sharply when he was given help (outside the INT.) sometimes players have to make plays.
It becomes a coaching issue when you as a coach know a player can't make the play and you put him in that position anyway. With Foster using a gap system, these guys are in these situations every day in practice and now have 4 games of film on these guys. After 4 games of film, I do have one conclusion. Chuck Clark looks terrific when he supports the run when aligned near the line of scrimmage pre-snap. He has looked incredibly shaky and tentative when aligned deep presnap (see Furman and now ECU.) against the Air Raid it may not have been possible for Clark to play near that LOS, but if I were a betting man I bet he is aligned like a LB vs Pitt.
Stroman just had a really crappy game. That happens sometimes. Girl breaks up with you, too much partying, illness in the family.....something. He just looked really distracted. Compare that to his solid play at Purdue. Greg Stroman isn't a bad player and will bra very good player at VTin his career.
I thought he was very good in man coverage. Better more physically mature receivers took the ball away from him. One on one, he was only cleanly beaten twice.
His struggles in zone, where the defensive coaches are trying to give him help, were much more concerning. In those man on man situations, physics won more than Stroman doing something wrong.
I could be wrong here but that one long TD run by their QB looked like a combo of poor technique and lack of effort by 2 different tacklers. Effort is 100% on the coaches. I don't care if you're an All-American, you play half ass, you should sit until you're motivated enough to give it your absolute all on every down.
I understand you have to strike a balance between being too hard on these kids and coaching them up right, but I see a lot of likership from some of these coaches and not as much leadership. It's ok to hurt some feelings every now and then if a player isn't performing. Just my opinion.
Frankly, I don't think any of us are in a position or have the knowledge base to measure effort. I noted a lack of pursuit, but I believe tired legs, much more than any kind of half effort, created that visual for us.
Fair enough. I certainly am in no position to know what a player is feeling or how much effort he's giving. That was just what it appeared to be after watching that play in particular. Xs and Os can only account for so much though. Like you've said before French, we don't know whether a guy broke up with his girl friend or had a personal issue just come to light right before a game so I won't judge. I will say this though, if our guys are so physically worn out at the end of a game against an average ECU team that they can't tackle a QB who's on nobody's watch list we're probably in for another rough season.
Half those penalties were utter bullshit.
Getting out coached starts on national signing day, not the first day of camp.
Actually that's being out-recruited. Coaching is what you do after you get the recruits in the door.
Then we see things differently. It's my view that in the college game, recruiting is part of coaching... a major part.
Actually we don't. I 100% agree that recruiting is part of a coach's job, but it's an entirely different skill set than coaching players up is. Very few HC's are both great recruiters and great coaches. The ones that are (Saban, Meyer, etc) usually have their teams in the playoff discussion. There are those who are great recruiters but lack in coaching (Dabo, Miles, etc) and those that are great at coaching but aren't great recruiters (Beamer, Briles,, Cutcliffe, etc). I think a coach can develop either of those skill set or surround themselves with people who mask that particular weakness (given they have the desire to do so) which is where someone like Jimbo fits in.
This game is an outlier for that argument. ECU wasn't filled with big time guys, in fact many of those receivers were walk ons or two star guys that we would be howling about if they were given a scholarship. It is an in exact science.
That said, watching Davon Grayson, a big, physical kid from Virginia going up and ripping down balls, made me hate that VT missed him. Imagine him and Ford outside, with Hodges rotating in with them and Phillips in the slot. Oh baby!
On balance I would agree, but it seemed to me that, excepting Brandon Fayscon (3-star recruit), ECU had better athletes out wide than VT had in its secondary. Summers also seemed like an athletic mismatch at times (making 'grown man' plays). And that's where my comment was directed.
after reading this I want to crawl into the fetal position
So in a nutshell, if you're on defense, and there is a guy nearby with the ball, you tackle him.
Brilliant!
It used to be that if you're on defense and your name was Dadi and there is a guy anywhere on the field with the ball and a different jersey on, you tackle him.
Wonder how much his injury is impacting him? If I remember correctly, he's has a messed up hand. I wonder if he's hurting a lot more than we realize since he isn't flying around like we're accustomed.
Of all our players sans Sam Rogers, just can't see him being the one to take plays off.
If Dadi doesn't get his act together he might find himself watching NFL games on his couch just like we do.
I think Dadi forgot who he was when he had to wear that spare jersey #94 in the second half.
Thanks, French, for another good analysis. Our defensive performance was so disgusting that it's hard for me to imagine how you watched the video over and over again to do this work.
I hope Bud somehow adjusts the defensive gameplan and that our players play smarter and with more fire to hold Pitt in check. I fear that if we lose to Pitt at home this Saturday, the wheels are going to come off( I realize that several lug nuts are already loose.)
I wonder how much of our defensive problems stem from our players reading about themselves in the preseason(I mean during camp!)?
Ugh, Pitt. At least it is not in that shitty ass stadium which gets us everytime.
Excellent if sad analysis as always, keep up the good work French!
offensive efficiency
with Motley at quarterbacklacking in critical momentsFWIW the ECU game last year we didn't really do anything till the 4th qtr with brewer at the helm either.
To be a little bit fair Brewer, and probably many other teammates, were beaten to hell by OSU the week before. We just didn't know it at the time.
French mentioned it ... on many occasions the pursuit just was not there. What happened to the swarming Hokies D that would fight off blocks, pursue, and make plays even when it was not "their job" to execute? There is something in the air here that I cannot put my finger on. A lack of confidence, a lack of enthusiasm, a gut feel they are going to get beat, only to have it become self-fulfilling prophecy. Mediocrity has been in place for years now. It seems like the players now accept that.
Too much Facebook, Twitter, and Snapchat.
Not enough Oklahoma Drill, Bull in the ring, and practice outside.
Didn't take long for someone to bring up practicing inside as the cause.
Not saying it's the cause, but I rewatched the game, and those guys looked soft to me. Maybe they were tired, I don't know. They just didn't look mean.
(I am excluding Maddy and Marshall here, those guys beasted all day.)
I don't think it's unreasonable to assert that lack of practice in inclement weather, makes a team less prepared to play in inclement weather. Football in the rain and mud is a much different game. Then again, if Tech was practicing in the rain, and a starter planted wrong and torn an ACL, the coaches would not hear the end of it from the fans. After watching the film, the tackling was so poor that I don't think it was the fault of the weather. Simply put, the defense played soft.
so what you're saying is our defense looked like UVA out there?
(bulletin board material)
maybe i'm grasping at straws here
Has Blacksburg had a lot of rain to practice in recently? I know that here in NC it had been fairly dry up until the end of last week, near gameday.
It is POURING right now. We've gotten 3 inches in the last 36 hours probably.
Lots of flooding going on
There have been landslides along roads in Giles.
Shawsville Elementary has flooded and lots of school districts are closing early sending kids home because of possible flooding.
My wife was a reading aide at Shawsville. That hill is fun to go down in the winter, let me tell you.
Right, but I meant last week heading up to the game.
Why would we practice in the rain when we have a nice new indoor practice facility? No, but seriously do other teams with indoor practice facilities even practice in inclement weather?
Beamer said on Tech Talk Live last night that even before the new indoor practice facility they tried to never practice in bad weather anyways since they still had the Rector field house. So the new facility hasn't changed much in terms of getting inclement weather experience. In fact, if anything, things should be better because now we can practice more special teams during inclement weather, which was previously limited by the low ceiling of the field house.
Looks like rain on Saturday, so they should get pretty good at it this week.
I'd wager that players on OSU, FSU, UM, Northwestern, and other top defenses spend just as much time on social media as our players do.
.[cleveland.com]
It seems that the D is merely as strong as it's weakest links, and due to injuries and inexperience we've got more weak links than normal.
I wonder if all the work the coaches put in to restock on offense had a negative effect on defensive recruiting. My concern, if that were to be the case, is that the coaches will realize the deficiencies on defense and spend a couple of years recruiting defensive players and neglecting the offense again to swing the pendulum back to where we came from where defense was awesome and offense was...well VTypical. Until we find a balance I wonder if we're just going to go through weird cycles where offense is good for a couple years while the defense struggles and then the defense makes a comeback but the offense struggles
If we have coaches who only have the ability to recruit offense or defense, and cannot do both at the same time, we're in for some very dark years down the line.
How does recruiting on one side of the ball effect recruiting on the other side?
Edit: I get we have limited resources, but just because you get three 4*'s on defensive side of the ball doesn't mean you can't get three more 4* on the offensive side.
Source: every top 10 recruiting class ever
we can only give out so many scholarships. it's all speculation, but my thought process was that if we recruited offensive heavy it could contribute to a down recruiting year defensively
Ok, so you're basically saying we had 20 scholarships, our offense was so depleted that 15 went there, so we only could give 5 scholarships to defensive players, so now our defensive depth is hurting? I think I get what your saying. I think our depth issue is quality, not quantity (exceptions at some positions).
I haven't taken any time to research any of my claims....it's all speculation on my part. just word-vomit. Thinkin' out loud, if you will, and trying to find some sort of justification for the unthinkable (that our offense is actually better than our defense....weird)
My guess is that we had been pretty beast at recruiting until our offensive recruiting slump occurred in recent years. Then, despite our D being one of the best in the country, highly-touted recruits started going elsewhere where they had a chance to win, not just a chance to be a part of a great defense. So the poor offensive recruiting may have effected our ability to sign quality defensive players across the board because our offense was so abysmal. Now the offense is getting better due to better recruiting, but the defensive seems to be suffer. But this is all conjecture...I have no facts to back it up. Whatever it is, our defense needs to gel and tighten things up and put a hurtin' on somebody, and SOON!
Too many snaps. 1) D not getting off the field on 3rd and long 2) DL not rotating. Right now, Wiles can't rotate because Dooley and Nigel Williams have been terrible. Mihota was getting whipped vs Purdue. Baron is the one guy who can be trusted with reps, and even he had a bad day vs ECU. Baron and Williams getting turned out easily on QB draw for the 3rd ECU TD was not good by those guys.
Whatever happened to Sobchak?
Bud rarely rotates DL and the 2nd DE are effort guys, they are not athletic enough for Buds liking/scheme. The DT i think just dont get enough reps most major programs rotate almost equally up front,. Even the DT at under 300 get tired and even more since their pushing on guys weighing 320 plus all game.
False- when VTvwas at it's peak defensively, starters got 2-3 series then back ups got series on DL. Bud rarely rotated at LB, but he has in the past (Myron Newsome was a back up that played regularly, and Jake Houseright rotated with Mikel Baquee
Baron is feast or famine has made a lot of splash plays since spring but still loses leverage and gets pushed around. I have no idea whats going on with Nigel. just speculation but i tend to believe he lost motivation/interest once Maddy returned knowing how infrequently Vt rotates Dlineman at least relative to other programs.
Remember when we thought going into the Furman game that we could see something like 2010? Well I think we are seeing it, albeit ECU has more talent than the JMU team.
The main similarity is that 2010 was one of our best offensive units, and it turned out to be a year where the defense struggled early. They did improve and Tyrod led us to a 10-2 regular season. I'm not sure if we will see the same end result, but I just wanted to make the point that in the couple of seasons that have seen above average offense, are the same couple of seasons we see a below average defense. Why does it have to be this way?
Also, French point out the DL getting worn down. Dadi and Ken get worn down playing the three technique when we're in the Bear front. Those guys need to be out on the edge, that is where they thrive.
leg for optimism
Somebody call up Rex and ask him to borrow Tyrod for a bit for another one of his pep-talks a la 2010!
I think it's time to abandon the bear. It was a great gimmick that helped us beat OSU once. As a defensive scheme, it's been beaten to death in 1.33 seasons. Once the novelty wore off, teams figured out how to beat it pretty easily.
Never been a huge fan of the Bear. Too much gamble. Rewards are getting slimmer and slimmer.
In other words, our opponents are proving to be smarter than the av-e-rage bear.
Or at least try something else?? maybe the splitfinger?
Agreed. The Bear has exhausted its usefulness at this point. Teams have figured out how to counter and make us pay for it. One of the biggest problems I think, however, is that our personnel have forced Foster to utilize such high risk, high reward schemes in order to get pressure. We are very thin and undersized at the linebacker positions, and our DL is supposed to be of the smaller but quicker twitch type of player. We emphasize our supposed strength, DBU, in playing 5 defensive backs the majority of the time. DBU is showing to be very inexperienced and raw so far, except for Fuller. After Saturday, I just really question our personnel and how Bud is scheming to use them. We need more interior pressure from somewhere. Someone has got to emerge at Mike, and if big Tim is ready at all, the time is now to put him on the field to wreck OLs. Teams like Pitt are going to gash us up front.
I could be wrong, but the bear isn't our base defense is it?
No, it's not. We could have a really good conversation on whether our base is the 4-3 or the nickel. I vote nickel. But regardless, we use the bear front a lot. It's in heavy rotation.
No kidding, who knows this year
Wiser folks than me have speculated that foster is running so much bear to protect the mike position which has been a weak point on the defense.
I wouldn't abandon the bear, but I certainly wouldn't run it against a team like ECU.
You know, those Air Raid teams whose offenses spend all day in practice throwing the ball down the field.
I know we ran the bear front against them, but were we running it before Summers came in?
A couple of snaps- yes. Not regularly. To me, they need to be shifting. Pre-snap, line up in the 40 or G front and then shift to bear and vice versa. Mess up pre-snap reads. The bear every rep stuff is a recipe for disaster.
Have we still been using VanDyke as the stand up end in the bear like we did against OSU Labor Day, or did we switch back to Dadi standing up? If it's still VD, that's another change I'd like to see. Dadi crushed it at that spot. RVD was a step down.
Shifted back to Clarke on one side and a the DE standing up on the opposite side
I forgot about RVD. He needs to have a big game against Pitt.
I think Bud's current scheme has been figured out, and its slightly surprising to see him not realize it. There really is no excuse for a rebuilding ECU to wax our defense like that. No bones about it, our defense got its ass kicked against the Pirates this weekend. Was every bit the thorough beatdown defensively that Miami handed us last year. Actually, these kind of beat downs on our defense are an annual occurrence at this point.
More than anything, the decline of our defense has been the most troubling development over the last 4 seasons. For a program that is built on winning through the defense, we just can't afford games like this, and now it happens once or twice a year. I expect more out of Bud Foster. And its not like we don't have the personnel to play better than that. Watching our guys whiff on tackles like that... Fundamentals like that should be the first thing we shore up in practice.
teams have figured it out.. Spread us out and attack the same player time and time again.. then once we've shown a n adjustment its time to run power and counters with qb and rb.
Last week was one of the worst tackling weeks I have seen since the pitt game last year.. and that's not a good omen with Pitt basically plugging and playing their new stud rb in Qadree Ollison.
Let's just say the improvements we're seeing thus far on offense came not one second too soon, and absolutely must continue if this isn't to turn into a complete clusterfuck of a season. Welcome to the new reality: the offense is gonna have to bail out the defense, at least some if not constantly.
Is it me or is it VERY strange to have articles on the defenses complete failure while complimenting the offense on a Virginia Tech site?
I think you want to go with "complimenting" here.
Compliment - give praise.
Complement - add to something, to make complete... as in a decent defense sure would complement our decent offense this year.
Just looking to help. Not trying for smarty pants points here.
A good offense complements a good defense.
After Saturday, no one is complimenting our defense.
Now you're cookin', Daddy-O.
As an English major I'm embarrassed to say I just learned something...
Not an English major but I can use an edit button. :)
I for one, am baffled why Donovan Riley is not starting, I have seen nothing from the others to show they are performing any better than a veteran, again another decision that makes no sense.
What do you guys think ??
They finally put him in middle 3rd quarter and ECU didn't target him. They threw one bootleg and then went after Reynolds (two pick plays and a slot fade)
Looks like we fell for the banana in the tailpipe against ECU.
We've been slow to adapt to the dynamic shifts of that game and I just hope we really, REALLY, win the rest of our ACC match-ups.
So all of our concerns about this team have come out a bit
1) Brewer is tough, but he takes a lot of hits and is on the smaller side (out for weeks with an injury)
2) We don't have a lot of experienced depth on the D-line (gassed lineman late in games and are showing signs of fatigure 1/4 way into the season)
3) No 3rd Wide Receiver stepping up (Cam and Ford playing every snap..yikes)
4) No top dog at RB means 5 man rotation and no one can get going and lead from the front
5) No proven DB depth (and to top it off, its Fuller who is out)
I hope this team can rise up and come out with some fight. I could see this Pitt game turning into the Miami game from last year, and I hope I am wrong about that.
I'm frustrated with 2 and 3 because we have bodies for those positions but don't seem to be able to either be able to get them ready or be willing to trust them in games.
I don't worry about the DBs. Looks like Stroman just had a bad game. Between him, Riley and Edmunds, we have options that will perform better in the future.
This is a early knee jerk reaction because we could possibly roll off 8 straight wins because no one in our "regular" season schedule is exactly dominant. That being said, this just feels like it's headed towards another 6-7 win season for the Hokies. Weather aside, it just didn't look like the players wanted as much as ECU did. Once the early jitters which led to two turnovers were gone they basically kicked our ass on defense. Personally, this game reminded me of Pitt in 2012, Duke in 2013, and Miami last year as almost a wake up call that this team isn't as good as I thought it was going in. I really want to be wrong on this opinion, but between the way Beamer has been putting his floor in his mouth, the horrible rotation and usage of the RB's, and Foster unable or unwilling to adjust to glaring deficiencies on defense; I don't feel we'll making any plans for Charlotte until after a new regime takes over. I used to think that Foster taking over for Beamer would be awesome, now I don't know because while it would be a different head man in charge, it would largely be the same culture and attitude which isn't getting it done anymore.
Please god let me eat crow on what I'm writing...Id much rather look stupid and win than be right and lose.
I wish I had your optimism. I don't see four teams on the horizon that are worse than ECU. By the (advanced) numbers, they were the third-worst team on the schedule, and we've already beaten the other two.
Does anybody know what is said on the Coaches headsets? Not for quoting, but...Are we sure they are talking back and forth. Seems like we might want to start a conversation on them. Foster doesn't know we're basically going to play a 4th string CB. And no one on the head set says anything about how our 4th string CB is being targeted all game and beat every play.
Lolfer "Just a heads up guys but lucky that pass wasn't to Stromans man, 2nd time he's been beat bad"
Beamer "Thanks Scott, Hey Bud whats going on at CB, where's Edmunds at didn't we see him all week at practice"
Bud "Yea Frank we are trying a different package out but thanks guys, we're looking in to making those adjustments now. Hey Torrian looks like ECU has found a weakness. Maybe pull Stromn for a little review time at least. Should we put in Edmunds now? I'm thinking Bear on this next play who you want in as CB?
Anything like that going on?
I've felt since the ECU game last year that Foster fell in love with the results he saw us produce from the Bear front against OSU last year and has been too stubborn to give it up in lieu of his former coverage concepts that weren't as effective at totally shutting down an inside run game the way it can. The problem being I don't see it as a particularly effective base defense, there are too many obvious and easy read/throws to go with now a handful of highly successful running counters to it. Where did the quarters robber coverages go? Where did the press cover 3 go to? When was the last time we saw us play with 2 high safeties to support our younger corners? I really think Foster has just gotten too bought into his own ego on his defense. We've always been proud of him adjusting to his personnel, but it feels like there is serious discord among the coaches about who should play when where and with what scheme, sliding between them frequently pre snap. Beyond the depth problems which are at this point seem obvious (No 2nd DL, no true LBs beyond Clarke, really no CB depth in terms of guys that have been here a while), I've found it very frustrating that Foster refuses to brush off some of his other playbook components out of our more base 4-3/4-4 concepts. I feel like we've gotten away from that the past 2-3 years and it hasn't really been for the best.
Tackle Drills , Inside, outside who cares. Just Get back to the basics of Football. And Torrian Grey is Not helping the Cause either ! I can't understand what is going on with Coach Grey , Something is not right here. More than just this issue...
Maybe I'm way off, but why don't we go for more of a NFL 3-4 look? I mean it fits Dadi's and Marshall's professional positions and makes all of our personal make more sense. We have super athletic linebackers who may not have the headiness to play Mike in Bud's unnatural gap scheme. We have the dynamic secondary to provide multiple looks and we have the pass rush to benefit from the 3-4.
I've been thinking that since Mt. Settle arrived...3-4 with settle at nose, maddy and marshal as the ends, trying to shoot the guard-tackle gaps....Dadi and Ken as OLB, short zones and edge crashing...Deon and Chuck at ILB...Fuller and Fayscon outside...Alexander and the next best safety guy for it to hold down safety...IMO, that's our best 11 at their best positions...but Bud really loves the 4-3 and light-speedy counters to the spread teams...I think 6 speedy guys and 5 heavier guys gives a better chance to counter those offenses...
3-4 is a two-gap defense and Bud told me in 2014 he's not about that life.
Fair enough, but I would still like to see more zone on the backend with more end pressure but free flowing LBs.
I know. I'm saying the personnel we have fit that scheme better than the 4-3. That can be taken two ways, 1) we should switch to the 3-4. 2) we should recruit for the 4-3. I'd prefer #2, but since we've recruited for the 3-4...why on earth are still trying to cram them into the 4-3? Just a personal peeve I've held for a while...
I don't think we have the size up front to play a 3-4. And where are you going to get 2 dependable middle linebackers when we don't even really have 1.
Bud wants to go "small and fast" we have the personnel for a small and fast 3-4. As I said in my post, Deon and Chuck... #allClarkMiddle I would even argue, that the 3-4 can be played as a one-gap defense, afterall, Bud plays a one-gap 3-4 regularly.
For arguments sake, let's forget the points that Foster doesn't want to coach the 3-4, and he doesn't have the experience to coach it.
Tech doesn't have one solid linebacker and the 3-4 requires four. Dadi might be able to develop into an outstanding OLB, but we don't have the size or athleticism at d-end.
The only stude piece we have in the box, is perhaps Tim Settle. And even if Settle is an All-American nose in the 3-4, there are few and far in between in America to replace him. Look how hard it is to find a capable nose in the NFL. Given how Tech recruits, it's wishful thinking that we land a dominant 3-4 nose every recruiting cycle.
If you want Tech to run a 3-4, hope Bud Foster isn't our d-coordinator, because that's the only way it's happening.
"I'd prefer #2"
Don't know what defensive scheme we should be running , but what we are doing is not working. Per ESPN since 2014 we have given up 102 plays of 20 yards or more. Worst of any p5 team.
Because that isn't Bud's system. In all his evolutions (4-4G to a 4-2-5 whip to nickel to Bear to use of the dime, the fundamentals are the same.) Saying "run the 3-4" right now is the equivalent of Paul Johnson trying to put in Bill Walsh's west coast offense in a week.
There are issues, yes. There were issues in 2003 when Cal, Pitt, and UVA torched Bud's D time and again, even with I believe 4 future NFL guys in the secondary. He adjusted. He adjusted using nickel and playing conservatively to force QBs to throw INTs while giving up huge chunks of run yardage in 2010. He adjusted back to an 8 man front in 2012 to really become the first ACC team to slow down the Clemson juggernaut O. He adjusts without changing fundamentals. I expect he will again.
I'm not saying run it...I'm just saying we recruit like we want to run a small-fast 3-4, then run a undersized 4-3...I don't know why. I'm irritated at the D's performance, but I'm not saying that we should now throw out all the prep and the plan to run a 3-4...I'm asking why we recruit players to run that style and then run the other...same way I was asking why we didn't run a 5DL-Bear against OSU...
Why do you think we recruit 3-4 players?
That's what their skill-sets appear to be...and I think we recruit small 3-4 players...
Dadi- edge rushing and run contain, pursuit
Ekanem -edge rushing, pursuit
Settle/Marshall/Maddy -interior gap shooting and run contain
Clark- close run support and moderate coverage abilities, very good tackler
Nobody has to agree with me, that's fine. But I won't apologize for thinking it's what their skill-sets support.
A 3-4 is nothing like what you described. In a 3-4, you are recruiting huge size in your DEs and NT, each of which have to take on blocks and eat two gaps. The ILB have to fill 5 hole to 6 hole. Your OLB are 260 pounders who are long and can play with a hand on the ground or drop into coverage.
Ricky Walker maybe could be a DE in a pro-style 3-4. Dadi could be an undersized weak side 3-4 OLB. Settle may have the size, but his game isn't eating blocks. He wants to get off blocks and make plays, which means he will be a 3 tech 4-3 DT. Nobody else fits a 34
I think this is where the confusion is. Tech doesn't run a 4-3.
Tech runs a 4-2-5. The two interior linebackers (Mike and Backer) allow Foster to one gap and get penetration while still covering all his gaps. A 4-3 only has one interior linebacker.
I was saying the look could be an added wrinkle more so than a complete overhaul. But I trust Bud to give us a top 30 defense.
Of course, Bud could have been playing Bear as our preseason D and we'll have a new front for the games that really matter. /s
not /s troof