After a bad loss, Frank Beamer is normally the first person to tout the virtues of his team and its promising future.
But the Hokies' disheartening, embarrassing 17-13 home loss to Pittsburgh seems to have Beamer finally ready to start talking tough.
"We're not going to stay where we are right now," Beamer said after the game. "We're going to look closely at personnel and we're going to look carefully at how we do some coaching, this program's not going to stay the way it is right now."
With the Hokies only totalling 100 yards of total offense — the fewest for a Beamer-led squad since 1987 — fans surely hope things change. The Panthers managed only 276 yards of offense themselves, and Tech's defense overcame a sloppy start to keep the Hokies in the game, yet the offense just couldn't seem to get out of its own way.
"They beat us up front, they beat us as a unit," said offensive coordinator Scot Loeffler. "That's the synopsis."
Pat Narduzzi's defensive front thrashed the Hokies' offensive line for a total of seven sacks and a total of 57 yards lost. Left tackles Jonathan McLaughlin and Yosuah Nijman rotated in and out of the game, but neither found any success stopping the Panthers.
"I told you at the start of the year that I wished our offensive line was a little more experienced, I wish we were more experienced right now," Beamer said. "But it is what it is, and we need to execute better, block better and play better."
That failure to protect sapped Tech's ability to throw the ball, with QB Brenden Motley completing just 9 of his 20 passes for 91 yards and three interceptions in what was his easily his worst game as a starter since taking the reins of the offense.
"It was simple, you didn't run the ball well and got your quarterback hit, and next thing you know your quarterback's not making great decisions," Loeffler said.
The running game was inept as well. The Hokies gained 80 yards overall, losing 71 yards to negative plays for a net total in the single digits.
It's part of what has Beamer vowing considering change, where he normally just endorses the status quo.
"We've got a freshman over there that's not ready to play, but he's a talented guy, so we'll look at that," Beamer said, seemingly referring to the left tackle spot. "We're not staying where we are right now. Where we are right now is not good."
But it was Tech's defense that got off to a shaky start. After a three and out by the Hokies' offense, Pitt quickly marched to VT's 27-yard line. Panthers QB Chad Voytik terrorized the defense with his legs once more, contributing a 26-yard rush to the drive, and Pitt took a quick 3-0 lead on a 45-yard field goal.
Disaster nearly struck for the Hokies on their next drive, with Motley recovering his own fumble before Tech punted it away. Tyler Boyd nearly had a huge fumble of his own, muffing the A.J. Hughes punt, but the Panthers fell on it to retain possession.
That proved fortuitous for Pitt. After a Tech holding penalty on the kickoff, followed by an offsides call on Luther Maddy, the Panthers started on their own 36-yard line. A 12-yard rush by QB Nate Peterman extended the drive on a key third down, and on the very next play, Peterman took advantage of a busted coverage in the secondary to find TE J.P. Holtz for a 23-yard score.
The Hokies gained just one first down on their next drive, and ended the first quarter looking lifeless. The Panthers outgained the Hokies 95 yards to just 32, and a 10-0 Pitt score looked foreboding for Tech.
But Tech's offense answered with a drive that might not have gone the way Loeffler drew it up, yet still ended in points. After pass interference penalty against Pitt as the secondary tried to defend Bucky Hodges, a miscommunication on the offensive line set up a 2nd and 19 for the offense.
Yet Motley scrambled for 22 yards to convert. But then another OL screwup led to a sack and loss of seven yards. Motley then managed to find Hodges on a crossing pattern and, after a nifty run by the TE, the Hokies managed to convert a 3rd and 17 on a 28 yard gain. Motley then used a convincing play fake to deliver an 11-yard strike to Cam Phillips in the end zone. The Hokies had life, down just 10-7.
The remainder of the quarter was quiet. Motley threw an ugly interception to set up the Panthers at the VT 46, but the defense came alive. A sack by Chuck Clark and a big hit by Luther Maddy forced the Panthers into a quick punt and a kneel down by Motley ended the half.
Pitt wasted no time getting back on the board. The Panthers needed just two plays and 45 seconds to find the end zone, with RB Qadree Ollison reeling off a 43-yard run and a 25-run to find paydirt and give Pitt a commanding 17-7 lead.
"If you're happy to see a team go down two plays and score after halftime..." Beamer said before trailing off. "I'm not happy."
It would end up being the last score of the game for the Panthers, yet it was the only one they'd need to win.
Another quick punt had the Hokies teetering. Yet Donovan Riley was able to make a big play on special teams, batting the ball out of the end zone to down it on Pitt's 2-yard line.
The defense allowed a couple quick first downs, but Andrew Motuapuaka redeemed the unit by forcing a fumble on Ollison to give the offense excellent field position on Pitt's 23-yard line.
The unit promptly went backwards, thanks to another sack on Motley. Joey Slye added a 43-yard field goal to get the Hokies within 17-10, but it was hardly what Tech needed in the situation.
Tech's defense managed a quick stop on Pitt's next possession, and the offense managed to then subsequently look inept, yet move the ball.
As the fourth quarter opened, Motley found Isaiah Ford on a low ball to the sideline to convert a 3rd and 12, and a questionable roughing the passer penalty on Pitt gave Tech an extra 15 yards.
Loeffler kept on calling outside runs, getting Travon McMillian crushed for a loss of six to lead off the new set of downs. The Hokies couldn't get any more yards thanks to the aforementioned abysmal pass protection, and lined up to attempt a 53-yard field goal. But the Panthers committed a poorly timed substitution infraction, giving Slye a chance to nail a 48-yarder and cut the lead to 17-13.
Pitt rushed seven times to get to Tech's 36-yard line, but the Hokies' defense stiffened. Motley and company got the ball back on Tech's 20, and promptly shot themselves in the foot, as the QB threw a lame duck interception to set up Pitt on Tech's 24-yard line.
When he returned to the sideline, trainers seemingly examined both his shoulder and his hand on the play, and backup Dwayne Lawson started warming up.
He didn't have long to prepare. Once more, the defense came up big, with Brandon Facyson breaking up a near TD to Boyd.
Deon Clarke then managed to block Pitt's field goal attempt, but it was all for naught.
Motley re-entered the game, but looked completely overwhelmed.
The Hokies managed an incomplete pass, a one-yard run and a 10-yard loss on a sack. Hughes had to punt once more, with time slipping away.
"All we can control is our side of the defense and our side of the ball and keep cheering on the offense and keeping having their back, that's all we can do," Motuapuaka said.
A Luther Maddy sack ended Pitt's drive quickly, but once more, it didn't matter.
Motley proceeded to have one of the worst offensive series likely ever experienced by a Tech player. He led things off with two straight sacks, then managed an incomplete pass on a very near sack and ended the game with an interception.
Motley insisted he was prepared to come back in the game after the series of big hits he took previously, despite the less-than-ideal results.
"I was a little banged up on that last drive, but when you take the field, we have the opportunity to make plays, at the end of the day it comes down to execution," Motley said.
Beamer also said he believed he was ready to come back, while Loeffler insisted that the team has "every safeguard known to man" to prevent a player from coming into the game if he wasn't ready.
"They said he could throw, looked like he was OK," Beamer said of the team doctors. "We wanted a healthy guy in there, but Motley said he was OK enough, at least that's what they told me."
Pitt finished off the game by kneeling the ball, and the result, combined with Motley's injury scare, surely has the staff wondering when starter Michael Brewer will be ready to return.
"He's been throwing, but he hasn't had any contact yet," Loeffler said. "We'll see where he goes."
With a short week approaching, the Hokies won't have long to evaluate either QBs' health. But that will hardly be the only evaluation taking place.
Losing to the Panthers may seem routine for the Hokies at this point, but hearing Beamer so sharply criticize his squad after a loss must surely strike fans as something out of the ordinary.
"Both sides of the ball, it's lapses, it's not consistent play," Beamer said. "It's not what we normally have around here. And we're not going to stay where we are."
Comments
I'll believe it when I see it.
Ditto... Unless those changes involve 1) Lawson starting, 2) McClaughlin benched, and 3) Beamer (both of them) stepping down then I have no reason to believe the "changes" will be of any use... Near or long term.
What? Why would we want Lawson starting?
I appreciate motley getting us a win against a terrible Purdue team and a AA team but he isn't the future. That was proved over the last 2 weeks. (Motley didnt play poorly last week but lefty showed no confidence in him as a passer aka QB hence the qb draw on repeat ) Making a bowl will be a long shot at this point. Might as well start getting Lawson some reps. What the hell could it hurt. Especially if motley is banged up (which he appeared to be). Maybe brewer will be ready but I feel like he had surgery just yesterday so expecting much from him would be wishful thinking
Yeah Motley is not a good QB. Even with a bad OL, you can tell he's over his head by a pretty large margin.
Definitely not my impression.
Sorry but I watched him stare down his receivers all day and either a) not have the confidence to pull the trigger or b) throw it into heavy coverage because again, he was telegraphing every throw. I feel for the kid because he shouldn't have been asked to be put into this situation and obviously the protection wasn't ideal, but we need to expect more out of a QB. He is poor.
Nobody was open. Not to defend Loeffler, but Narduzzi Ida defensive genius.
Receivers were open. They just weren't the first read.
With Motley's inability to read the field, coupled with having no time to read, resulted in what we saw today.
Not a hell of a lot of quarterbacks are going to play well with a) no pass protection or b) no rushing game.
Factor in a game plan seemingly designed to highlight his weaknesses and not his strengths and I'm not at all surprised he didn't drag Virginia Tech to victory.
It appeared that every mistake we were afraid he would make as a rookie he made today.
We also need to keep in mind that the play calling was abysmal, and as the game went along and he drew more and more hits (what was that about a meat tenderizer again?), he was probably anticipating that a little too much and it made him tight and hesitant.
Also, he ran a wishbone offense in high school. WORLD'S apart from Laughler's "complex NFL scheme". (complex NFL scheme my ass, a WVU football fan has more teeth than he does plays)
To be fair, they probably have dozens of sets of dentures lying around in your average WVU home.
If it is so complex I wonder why it is so easy to stop? (Rhetorical question)
Non rhetorical answer: It appears to only be hard for the people that have to do it.
We joke around here a lot on LOLUVA and WVU (burning couches, etc) and it elicits a lot of humor and laughter. But, my fellow subscriber (HokieFan4Ever), as a born and raised Mountaineer with all my family, classmates, friends and fellow Hokie fans from that State (we all have all our teeth), I am deeply offended by your remarks. I am sure that if you go to the backwoods of Virginia and other states as well (maybe your own state), you will find some of the same unfortunate people who epitomize what you think is a very funny thing to say. Having said all that, I do support your right to speak freely and would defend to the death your right to speak freely. I just wish that you would think more about how your idea of humor impacts on others.
BroncsZoo, I am very, very sorry that what I said offended you. In no way was I was trying to be insulting. My Mom is actually from WV, and I have deep roots to that state, and many of my family members are actually WVU fans. I'm southern born and southern bred, so I completely understand what you're talking about with getting offended by these jokes. However, in this situation I was simply using a little bit of humor to compare the "complexity" of Loeffler's offense to a WVU fan. It wasn't meant as an insult and I know that the VAST majority of West Virginians have all their teeth. Please accept my deepest apologies!
Put your teeth in when you try to talk, I can't understand you
forreal man. since when is making fun of people who don't have access to education and health care funny? it never was. It's in poor taste. People starve every year in Appalachia and I'm really sick of these dumb comments. We are way more connected as a culture to the teethless denizens of West Virginia than some NoVA fuckboy.
Man. Talk about derailing an agreeable sentiment at the absolute last moment.
"It's not cool to make fun of where people are from, you NoVa douche."
I mean, hypocrisy much?
it almost makes you wish we had a talented running back with the last name of McMillian to help establish the ground game to take some pressure off. it's really a damn shame(or should I say Shane) we don't.
I'd agree if McMillian could pick up a blitz which he cannot.
yeah, in my opinion, Motley has played pretty damn admirably. He was the only reason the ECU game was as close as it was and the offensive line is just, just, just, awful, irrevocably and completely, so at least 2 of those picks today were due to pressure.
I agree with you. I've been pretty impressed my Motley. This is offense isn't exactly built to cater to his strengths and there aren't too many players that could make good decisions in the face of the pressure that he was seeing today. Motley is not the reason that we have been unsuccessful in the last two weeks and it is incredibly short-sighted and unfair to blame him.
He's been pretty much the only player who is providing any spark to the offense, just weird to blame HIM for the lack of production.
I hear you, but I think his upside is limited at this stage. If everything goes well, he can be productive. But when he's pressured, which he clearly is going to be from here on out given the current state of our offensive line play, he struggles. The 1st pick yesterday had nothing to do with being pressured. He had time, but he completely stared down the receiver the entire way. And I was at the game so I didn't have the benefit of a TV announcer pointing it out - it was obvious watching the play in real time and confirmed by watching the replay. He never looked away from his primary receiver, and the corner on that side watched his eyes and quickly drifted back to make the easy pick. The 2nd pick was the result of a poor throw. The receiver was open, he just under threw it. Again. The last pick was definitely the result of massive pressure and the fact that it was 4th and long. I'm not trying to bad mouth the kid, and I think he's probably a great kid who is giving it his all. But he's simply limited at this stage of his career. So I agree that we should just get Lawson in there and let him start getting real experience. Just my two cents.
The knock on Motley is that he can't always carry a team on his shoulders. That's not much of a knock.
A lot of people did the same thing to Logan Thomas. He really was 75% of the offense and people wanted to bench him for Leal every other week. Just disgruntled fans looking for someone to blame.
It's more that Logan Thomas (and now Motley) had to be 75% of the offense because he's not talented enough as a passer to get the rest of the offense involved, if you ask me. Trust me, I'm not trying to take away from the level of effort Motley is putting forth. He's doing what he can quite valiantly. He's just not as good as some think he is. I don't really have a solution because Lawson probably isn't ready yet and Brewer is hurt, but if Motley is the future then we may be in trouble.
If you're saying this season is over so turn it over to Lawson so his real education can get started, I understand your point but I'm not sure I agree with the approach.
If you're saying Lawson is our best hope to win games right now, I disagree. I would stick with Motley as the starter and Lawson as a change-of-pace until Brewer is ready to come back. (We were told this was the plan, but I don't believe Lawson got a single snap on Saturday, so I don't know what to make of that.)
I disagree, I think he's pretty good. He did what most inexperienced QBs do when he had no protection. He lost confidence in his reads, became indecisive and just made his problems much worse. With more experience, you can perform better in those situations. Or it can ruin you. Sean Glennon lost confidence with no protection and never recovered.
And I don't understand the criticism of motley running last week. The weather was awful and our RBs are terrible. I hate Scot Loefflers offense, but he handled ECU appropriately.
Lawson has a lot of talent but he's raw as hell. I didn't like him bailing on the Miami situation, that is a marker of a guy who may think his talent alone should guarantee him things. I hope we are looking for a transfer QB this offseason....might need one.
That said, I expect a new coaching staff next year. Maybe someone who actually knows how to develop an offense and qb.
As long as that new staff is new at the top...
I agree with you about Motley, but I think Lawson will be the starter next year.
He's not ready yet, but he will be.
Loeffler is a decent QB coach. His system is more complicated than most, though.
There should be a lot of changes on the coaching staff.
At the end of the game, though, shouldn't Lawson have been given a chance? From what I could tell on TV, and what others around me were saying, it looked like Motley couldn't even lift his arm well for those last two drives. So what good did it do to send him back out?
I realize tossing Lawson into that might have been a bad idea, but we seemed to have about a 0% chance of winning at that point, anyway. Or is he just too young to get him beat up like that? (I figure, we burned his redshirt, so what the hell?)
Credit where credit is due, Motley has performed well this season. He looked gun shy quite a few times today, made bad reads, and forced the ball. That said, the play calling was terrible and didn't put him in a situation to succeed. Pitt's front 4 were absolutely destroying our line and gave him little to no time to make a read; when he did have time, he either starred down his receiver or wouldn't let the ball go. It boggles the mind that instead of trying to nickel and dime it down the field to counter the pressure, Loeffler's solution was to run every receiver 10-15 yards of the line. Damn near NONE of them were out of their break by the time Motley was having to move out of the pocket or was on his ass.
I disagree with your assessment of Glennon. He wasn't a good quarterback. That's it.
I also disagree with the allegation of Lawson. I don't think he "bailed" because he thought his talent alone was enough to guarantee him things; although if he's more talented then Motley (which I think we all believe he is) then he should be guaranteed to play/start. I think he left Miami because Brad Kaya was going to be their starter and he probably knew he wasn't going to get a shot. Why would we want him playing? Because he's got all he tools necessary to win games. Is he raw? Absolutely, but I haven't seen anything from Motley to make me think he and Lawson are that far apart and honestly I think Lawson's raw talent beats Motley's "experience" any day. Lastly, we pulled his damn redshirt so he could sit?. Play. Him. Period.
Shit I swear their quotes are so interchangeable with any team we have played.
Words. Just words...
In all fairness, isn't this type of response from Beamer what everyone has been clamoring for? You can argue it's looking like too little too late, but it was different from what we've been hearing after games and more along the lines of what people have claimed they wanted to hear from Beamer.
I think that's a fair assessment, but you hit the nail on the head about it being too little too late. I honestly just don't know how to feel anymore.
The only change that needs to be made that will legitimately help is that of who or head coach is
Change? I guess we're gonna change the jersey/helmet combo again. Seems to be the only thing that has changed in the last 4 years.
All I hear when our Coaching staff talks
The quotes about Motley's safety pass the buck. It's one thing to lose, it's another to leave a gimpy kid out there high and dry.
Frank has passed the buck for years when people question him.
The best example was in the Sugar Bowl against Michigan. It was late in the game and instead of punting deep and pinning Michigan back, Beamer called for an idiotic fake punt. Then, after the game, blamed it on Coale.
Beamer didn't call for the fake, he gave Danny the option. This happens all over college football when you have an athletic punter. Beamer expected one of the most consistent and smart players that he ever coached to make a good decision and he was let down. That play was not on Beamer.
The point is, in a crucial point in the game, you don't even give your punter that choice. Besides, Beamer didn't own the playcall. He didn't say "Yeah, I called the play, it didn't work out, that's on me."
Yeah, it was Beamer's call, and he should have owned it.
No different from when Michigan's coach kept running their injured qb
Edit: Brady Hoke
don't remember the name of the qb
Shane Morris, who was run back out there with an obvious concussion
I completely agree. He's the head coach. He should be making those decisions (with proper input from medical staff of course), not letting assistants tell him who should be in the game. That's how it reads to me anyway.
Is he just now figuring this out? This is so unnacceptable. If this were any other school Beamer would have already been long gone. I'm tired of the excuses and giving the other team credit.
Beamer is "in-between a hard place and a rock" !
We could have won the game if our offensive line would have shown up!!!
Isn't this like saying we would have won the game if we'd scored more points?
Maddenism
Unfortunately, they did show up. They just aren't particularly talented nor well coached.
I think our line does OK when facing vanilla fronts and pass rush schemes. They have the physical tools to block one man right in front of them. But they clearly can't adjust and handle stunts, delays, or anything other than a defense lining up right in front of them and coming straight at them. Is that from a lack of experience, poor scheme, or poor coaching? I don't know that answer.
Which is interesting as a few of them learned to play on the other side of the ball. They should know what to expect.
It IS what we normally have around here, at least the last 4 years. I honestly would not be surprised if we don't win another game.
Our play calling is atrocious. BC will hammer us with their defence!!!!
Jet Sweep!
Wasn't that the hands-to-the-face penalty?
Yeah it was. It was definitely hands-to-the-face. I was calling for it up in the east stands.
I'm guessing since Alex was at the game, all he heard was "personal foul" since that's all Ron Cherry said. He may not have gotten the benefit of replay that we got.
Apologies- in the press box all we got was personal foul and he motioned for roughing the passer. Ron Cherry will most certainly get after ya.
He sure gave y'all the business up there.
Frank not the only legend coach with QB injury issues. K-State had burned through all 3 and now Bill Snyder has a guy listed as a WR playing QB and is somehow winning.
Motley isn't a bad QB.
But nobody (other than possibly Brewer) can survive out there without an offensive line.
I agree!! We need the coaches to " coach em up" and we hope for the best !!!!!
I have been a long time believer in Frank and him being able to go when he wants. But rather than just words, we need to see a real damn change and production for the rest of the season. Otherwise this is going down in the books as the game that got Frank laid off. Shane has to go at a minimum...
Unless there is a huge turnaround, if no changes are made, my gold hokie money will be gone. So said the people who sit next to me as well.
I'm not going to withdraw financial support, but it's going to include some harshly worded commentary if we don't see some pretty big changes at the end of the season.
I am not going to withdraw totally with no changes, but I will probably reduce. After the product we are putting on the field this year, I am not sure how hard it will be to maintain my ticket location.
Headline the Sunday following the UVA Game - Beamer Saves London's Job - Loses His. Yep, this is the year UVA has a real shot to beat us. 7 games to go and we have a shot at 2 or 3 of them. We lose to State, UNC, Miami, Duke and GT. Have a chance with BC and UVA. It doesn't matter who the QB is at this point. Too many holes to fill on Defense and Offense. Problem is that VT hasn't recruited well in years. Getting a lot of 2-3 stars and almost no 4 stars and who was the last 5 star - Kendall Fuller. Foster is set on running his defense and not molding a defense around the personnel he has. He wants his personnel to play his defense but the truth is that this group isn't athletic enough to do it. Almost same thing on O. Scott hasn't exactly set us on fire with his offensive game plan. No, coaching must change and VT must get more athletic players. Can't keep losing the good in state guys like Hand, Yulee, Sweat and 10 to 15 others over the last 3 years.
Their recruiting class last year was one of the best in years. Just give the young guys time to develop
Endless loop here. Sorry.
Wake up bro. We lose out on Soooo many kids in our backyard. The list is so long; Hand, Nnadi, sweat, levanberry, Derick Green, Korven kirven, jayln holmes, Wayne Davis,Curtis Grant, Jonathan Allen, Yulee. I'm not even including the 5* kids uva got. We have Got to get our state of Virginia back in recruiting it's embarrassing.
This has to be a sarcastic post. Right?
Regardless of being sarcastic or not, his comment doesn't call for downvotes.
100% . Johnnyu19 appears to be a new poster. Fair warning, johnny, this has been a point of contention for a bit now.
I said it on one of these threads, too. The best players we have on offense are sophomores or at best in their second year of playing, or younger. Cam, Isaiah, Bucky, Travon, Shai, Marshawn, Gallo, Teller, Conte, and Nijman is expected to be good.
The man has a point.
I'm with you about Foster. He is being arrogant. The man has crafted some fantastic defenses over the years, but people seem to be on to what we want to do.
Yeah, I'm actually quite tired of seeing the "bear" defense now. It was a great alignment to use for certain teams, but there shouldn't be a need to use it that much. What happened to the great defenses that Foster used to have?
As best as I can tell, we really didn't run it today.
No we did, several times. We ran it to counter Pitt's "heavy formation" and the QB carried for 7 yards anyway...
On a QB "sneak" for crying out loud!
I'm not sure what everyone else saw out there for the 2nd half. Other than the 1st 2 plays on D, Our D played a damn good 2nd half. The best we have looked all year. They held up n stopped a running qb. They set up the offense, which failed to move the ball at all. I think pitt was somewhere near 170 yds at half. Then u add those 2 plays, another 75 yds on 2 plays? That's 245. So our D only allowed another 40-50 yds the rest of the way.
Our offense was too predictable, we kept running the RB carousel of death (we have to find a gif for that), & our OL destroyed our QBs confidence n he wouldn't throw the ball.
1. Is Shane Beamer being Assoc. Head coach & RB coach now a liability 4 Loeffler? I say yes.
2. Can Motley truly run Loeffler 's offense. I say no.
3. The OL needs to get tuff now. Time for Searles to earn his money. Not sure what u do there. McLaughlin got worked all day.
I think u play Lawson n throw in some Durkin until Brewer can truly come bak. START RUNNING McMILLAN BETWEEN THE TACKLES (Jeesh!). Bud has to keep developing his young D - we need to let him do it.
Let the picking my post apart start now...
Wrong- Foster is running the exact defense that fits his personnel. The problem is that defense and that personnel is a terrible match up against any team that uses down blocking/power blocking like we used to run at EHC instead of zone blocking.
See Pitt, BC. It is well suited for Miami X's and O's wise, but Miami's OL has gotten so much push the last couple years vs the Hokies small DL that it negates the scheme advantages.
I'm sorry, but this season is the culmination of giving Beamer a lot of leeway.
He did it his way, but this should be his last season as head coach.
Sorry, but Virginia Tech has won LOTS of football games with 3 star talent. The talent is not the issue, this was your average trap game in sloppy conditions. Still, no excuse for how the offense played and how the game was called on the offensive side. Loeffler's offense is extremely predictable and needs to go. Anyone other than Bud Foster as our next head coach will leave me sorely dissapointed. We need someone with a fiery personality to take over the reigns like Buzz with the basketball team.
We maybe used to find good 3* players who blossomed while at VT. Regardless of the * rankings of the players, the team from 1995 - 2012 has NFL players at multiple positions.
The talent is not on the team anymore and there are many reasons why.
But it's the next year Frank!
Foster has failed to stop even a decent running qb which is what most of college football is running now, he needs to go as well.
And there is the big elephant in the room... The defense is breaking down in the same ways it has done so the previous 3 years and still no adjustment to fix... It's getting difficult to ignore just how far our defense has fallen.
In my opinion keeping Bud is no longer a priority in the coming coaching search.
And that is the flat truth.
I'll give Bud a pass. The only area where he really has failed (all be it a big one) is recruiting. He is the DC and LB coach, yet the LB seem to be a weak spot right now. Additionally as someone mentioned above, seeing some top defensive talent leave the state like Nnadi, Hand, Sweat etc, these are guys that would be starting on our D line and providing real depth. Before that we lost guys like Hughes at LB.
His D can stop a running QB, it shut down OSU last year. I think the man to man schemes do hurt us against a QB that can scramble though.
Bud Foster is still one of the best DCs in the business. But there was a time when folks said, "If we hire a new HC it either needs to be Bud, or someone who will keep Bud." That was the point being made -- that if the best HC available wants to hire his own DC, we need the best available HC more than we need to keep Bud at DC.
Actually it is rare to win alot of games 17-14 these days. Offenses are just too far ahead of defenses in general. We are fighting a losing battle expecting to suffocate everyone and win every week. We need to get with the times and be able to score more points. We cannot do that consistently. We don't have to be Baylor but being closer to that would help. Unfortunately, the Loeffler experiment may be about to end. When Brewer broke his collar bone Lefty just watched the sand slip through the hour glass at VT.
A trap game!? A trap game?
Conference opener (after your coach made the ridiculous statement about exhibition games), coming off a bad loss...against a team that has now beaten you 6 out of 7 times?
If the Hokies overlooked Pitt, then every coach needs to be fired immediately.
Or maybe we just are a shitty football team.
When VT Coached them Up. The Coaches are the ones is the Problem. Look no Farther than Lefty and Little Beams... Frank wants to make Changes , start with these two .
Searles isn't looking too hot either. And while beamer is a lame duck hc (age and on a thin string), we're not going to be able to replace any of them with quality coaches
In my opinion, Searles deserves some latitude. It's only his second year here, and the OL is greatly improved from the previous units put out there. They're also working in front of an inexperienced QB. I like to think they will continue to improve this year, regardless of this Pitt performance.
I agree, we have seen improvement in almost every game. Pitt destroyed them yes, lets see how they recover and play against NC State before anybody crucifies anybody.
So a terribly mediocre Lville team beat NCST 20-13, so what is our score on Friday?
31-17 NC State. Brisset is a quick QB who can actually throw well. So he'll have 150 yards on the ground and 200 in the air at a minimum.
You think our defense and special teams can score 17?
Bad. The score will be bad.
VT 27 NCSU 17
i want to believe
I'm cherry picking the first half of this quote. I don't like how he said this. Maybe I'm just looking for a reason to criticize, but I would have preferred to hear it differently. I'm assuming this was directed at Nijman, who wasn't initially hyped about moving to OL. Now he's got a legendary coach saying he isn't ready to play. That guy must feel terrible. Next time, Beamer, say he had a rough day.
After that performance, there shouldn't be ANY players getting highlighted by the coaches unless they did something well.
Not sure why everyone's assuming this quote is about Nijman. I immediately thought he was talking about Lawson. The coaches thinking Lawson isn't ready is the only logical (but definitely not GOOD) reason that Motley was out there on the last two drives. Aside from knowing we had no shot at a game winning drive because I watched most of the game, I...double knew?...the game was over when we our game winning drive was now going to be reliant on the clearly injured shoulder of a man giving his goddamn best while standing behind the leaky sieve that was our offensive line.
The full quote, "We've got a freshman over there at left tackle, and thats a situation we'll look into." Maybe not perfect, but that's what i remember...
GOOD point. I can tell you exactly why I thought he was referring to Nijman. I copied the full quote that I read:
Now that I re-read this, it sounds a LOT more like he's talking about Lawson. This was the context that lead me to think about Nijman.
That quote struck me too, but for a different reason. I've been saying for a few years now that Beamer only knows a handful of players names. It's a little thing, but it shows how disconnected he is from the players.
I bet he doesn't know Nijmans name.
I'm glad someone brought this up. This was a point of a lot of contention in the press box. The question Beamer was asked referred to the line's protection issues, so it seems he was referring to Nijman, but he also could've conceivably meant Austin Clark. It's not out of the question that he meant Lawson, given that Frank hardly sticks solely to the subject of the question he was asked, but the OL seems most likely to me. FWIW, Tech's athletics communications folks listed the quote as being "on the offensive line" on the quote sheet they handed out, but the whole thing is very much subject to interpretation, and Frank was in no mood to elaborate after this game.
Now that's a name I haven't heard since before he even arrived on campus. I thought he had made very little impression on the coaches this Fall. Maybe I'm wrong?
I thought it was Austin Clark
A reference to a big, strong QB makes a great deal of sense in the context of the O-line getting battered.
What's the purpose in a second string quarterback at the collegiate level if you are not going to have him ready to play week in and week out? Frank leaves too much up to chance is what I perceive. He needs to make sure his coaches are doing their jobs and put the pressurr on his coordinators to see that they direct their coaches more tightly - cough Grey last week/shane every week. Somebody needs to grab the bull by the balls and be accountable.
I'll be the outlier here and say I'm SLIGHTLY encouraged that CFB finally acknowledged the obvious issues, as opposed to the usual "they got after us" crap. I hope something changes with this team quickly. If more money is needed for better O-line and RB coaches then go for it. He needs to contact every 4 and 5 star o-line high school kid and show them this game and convince them they can start day 1 next year.
While I most certainly understand the purpose behind your statement, it's not the way, for the most part, that recruiting works. Recruits will continuously flock to the teams that are for the most part guaranteed to win a lot. Virginia Tech, as much as it pains any of us to say, is no longer guaranteed of anything except that we have no idea what is going to happen week to week. Just look around...there isn't a fan, beat writer, or analyst around that came anywhere close to predicting the last ~1.5 seasons for the Hokies. So to continue with my point, why would a 4-5 star recruit want to come here to start immediately at a roughly 6-6 season when he can be a part of a championship contending team?
I'm not sure what you're basing this on, but I strongly disagree. If this were the case we would never lose out on a recruit to UVA.
Some kids have openly stated that they went to a particular school specifically because they were offered early playing time. So have said they don't care whether the team wins as long as they get to the NFL in one or two years. Just yesterday there was a quote from a four-star recruit (I think) saying he is coming to VT because he wants to work with Coach Gray. Others have chosen VT over "better" offers because of the "family atmosphere."
I think the only bottom line we can draw is that high school seniors make all sorts of decisions for reasons that are hard to fathom.
I was at the game, sitting near the Pitt fan section. The offense just looked slow. Like they were stuck in a pit(t) of molasses and Pitt's defense was moving at normal speed. Especially on pass plays. They seemed to take forever to develop and it does not surprise me that Motley's final stat line was so bad through the air. As for the quotes from CFB...not only will I believe it when I see it, but the fact that a game like this is seemingly what it takes to get him talking like this is distressing.
This specific game is an exception, however in the past years it seems like we always have tough injuries. Kendall Fuller is an example, the running backs last year. Contact injuries, like Brewers, I understand. Conditioning seems to be an issue to me. I know you can't prevent all injuries, but more than other teams we always seem to be bit by the injury bug. Any thoughts?
This is not the NFL. This is not Ohio State. I am watching an offensive and defensive game plan that requires 5 recruits or 3 years in the system. Bud seems able to make adjustments but rarely wins the opening few possessions lately. Lefty has a game plan for players we do not have. It has been 3 years. Beamer is on his way out and this negatively impacts recruiting. College Football is a younger mans game. The time is now. Please realize how hard this is to write for a class of 80 grad who watched Frank make this program relevant.
I'm ok with the point about Foster - I always figure the first two possessions of the game and the first possession of the second half are where adjustments need to be made, and he has shown he's pretty good at that. I think asking for more may be asking for too much.
Agreed. Last week was ugly for the defense, but outside of the 2 play drive to start the second half I think they played fairly well against Pitt. Let's be realistic, if the opponent scores 17 points, I think we'll take that every day. Should be easy to overcome that....
After saying I wasn't going to game as a protest I ended up going anyway. My son and I ended up having a good time in the rain. I've been going to VT games for a long time and have seen some tough losses....but today wasn't tough as much as it was painful. VT, as a football program, has seriously declined in the past few years. The sad thing is that at VT it will take a while to climb out of mediocrity as we are not a recruiting juggernaut and it will take multiple classes of solid kids to get us moving in an upward trajectory. Hate to see coach FB ruin his legacy but it appears he is intent on remaining on the sidelines despite his promise to "know when the time is right to step away".
Bowden
Watching the offensive line was like watching the second half of the Orange Bowl against Stanford. Defense penetrating at will but with an immobile Taylor in the backfield.
Seems like we always have to have our 'wake up call' game to actually get the game prep serious. Unfortunately we're on wake up call #2 and I'm hoping there won't be a #3. Hoping but not betting on it. CFB is such a game of momentum and VT looks like a team with the wind completely taken out of its sails.
Oh, and if I hear 'jet sweep' one more time... I swear, it's like it's our new WR screen play, predictable and repetitively unsuccessful
0-1 on the season
Lol, ....couldn't help but laugh at that
The three most logical candidates in my opinion are David Shaw, Rich Rod, and Mark Stoops. Each has shown they can build a program up in 2-4 years and none are at big programs with hue contracts. Idk if we could get Shaw to leave Stanford, but if we could he'd be my first choice. Rich Rod is the only offensive guy out of the three, so that makes him my second choice (just because Shaw is a more complete coach and seems to be a classy guy. Other sleeper pick possibilities Id like are Charlie Strong (if he gets fired at UT, which some crazy fans are calling for now), Chip Kelly (again would require him getting fired, but nfl fans are also pretty crazy), or Steve Addazio (he may be in conference, but we're a much more prestigious program in a better recruiting area).
I'll get blasted for this....but give me Rich Rod. Guy knows offense and can recruit. He is an East Coast guy, can recruit well......I'll hang up now and let the hate begin.
There are a lot of us who are really interested in Richrod. Immediately, we would have an offense. And he's an asshole, but the kinda asshole you love when he's your asshole.
And he could keep Foster here.
Which at this point is a strike against Richrod. I am not sure Foster needs to stay. Ever pocket passers are running against us because they know they will be successful.
I would *love* RR. My WV"u" alum family would go into such conniption fits.
My current top 5:
1. Harsin - Boise
2. Richt - UGA
3. Shaw - Stanford
4. Rodriguez - Arizona
5. Addazio - BC
You can get Harsin, RichRod or Addazio. To get Richt or Shaw, there would need to be a reason for them to leave their current post. Could be fan support at UGA or money at the traditionally frugal Stanford.
I doubt we could get Harsin, he really wanted to go back to Boise...Richt from Georgia? You really think we could swipe him? IDK abt that...SEC and all that...Shaw- I wish. RichRod...isn't his contract like, abusrd money?...Addazio, maybe. Can he really recruit at all though?
Any non p5 coach will fight tooth and nail for a good p5 job.
I think you're projecting your opinion of our program onto them...Harsin won't see the east-coast, in a much more crowded recruiting environment an upgrade anymore than Shaw would. RichRod might like us...but about that money... Richt has a better job IMO, than ours. Georgia has old boosters with deep pockets. They haven't fired him for sucking for how long? And I'm not convinced Addazio can coach...but all of them according to you want to come here?
I think they all are real possibilities, yes.
I think I'm giving much more credit to Harbaugh than I am to Shaw. Shaw inherited Andrew Luck & Co. I can't speak to Mark Stoops but he is a good coach. I don't think we could afford Kelly. Strong will probably get fired, but I'm not 100% sure I'd want him.
Rich Rod plus Bud Foster would be lethal in short order. My preference right now is Addazio but these two are at the top of my list. Since we can't afford Rich Rod, that leaves Addazio, who I think would be a great get.
Doesn't Addazio have a desire to coach a team in the New England area? I kind of remember him saying something like that when he was hired at BC.
Charlie Strong?? Have you watched a Texas game lately? There is plenty of talent to go around at Texas and they are getting embarrassed on the field. I'll pass.
I sit here drinking my favorite cup of coffee and pondering the mysteries of civil engineering, i feel the need to express my feeling concerning HC Beamer.
I think it is time for him to retire at the end of this year, but at the same time, I am not reveling in his departure nor do I enjoy calling for his ouster. I've lost everything I've ever owned back in 2003 so I understand the soul crushing realities of being an adult man that doesnt have a job. Thus, when I call for coach Beamer' ouster, I do not do so lightly nor I do like myself very much. But it is simply time. I know, Coach Beamer built something special here at VT and every Hokie should be grateful for that accomplishment. But I also think the program that he built should be bigger than the ego of the man who engineered its rise from nothingness.
For the good of the program Coach Beamer, please retire at the end of this year.
If CFB goes out the door he won't lose a thing. He's made plenty of money coaching and I believe he has a position with the university waiting for him.
Exactly. Beamer has made more than a mint running the show here. He's smooth enough to have the athletic department pay him even when doesn't work here once he "retires."
That's actually my biggest problem with Franz. He's been milking the program the past couple of years for millions with zero return...unless a meaningless bowl game is our idea of a healthy return.
Beamer: "they're exhibition games....."
Hokie fans: "he obviously doesn't care if we lose anymore...fire him"
One week later.....
Beamer: "We are gonna make some changes, we're not staying where we are"
Hokie fans: "Don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth, fire him"
That's all.
Frank is not doing a good job as coach anymore. Sorry, you can't defend the job he's doing this year. It's poor and yet not unexpected because it's the same old same old.
Coaching is hard. Will be hard for the next guy too, because nobody has patience anymore. The program won't be fixed overnight. But, this season could still be salvaged if we can keep the entire campus from being so rancid. If the pitchforks stay out, it could get real ugly. The thing is, spewing negativity doesn't make anything better in the short or long term. A midseason firing would be unclassy and won't solve anything, so what good does it do going on and on about the head coach.
We would all love to know what you are seeing that suggests this team can accomplish much of anything this season.
The problem now becomes that Beamer being here till year end when it's clear he will be done afterwards will absolutely decimate the average at best recruiting class we have to begin with.
And if somehow this isn't his last season, VT might be flaming wreckage after another season of meh recruiting and losses mounting.
If we keep losing, I wonder if Beamer would possibly be forced to announce his resignation at the end of the year during the season? That way, you could at least start searching for the next guy and have him named by the end of the year to try and salvage recruiting. This could be a really, really ugly year all around.
Recruiting will fix itself if we make a splash hire. Go big.
Even after that horrible performance, it was still a 1 score game. When I say salvaged, I mean bowl and maybe contention for coastal but the program is a long way away from being where we all want to be. A midseason firing of a legendary coach is not what virginia tech is about. He's probably gone after the season, my point is that complaining about him for the rest of this season does no good.
Unfortunately right now there isn't a whole lot to talk about that isn't negative.
The reality is, Beamer is a master at circling the wagons, deflecting criticism and doing a little revisionist history at the end of the season. Allow that to happen again and we look forward to more of this next season.
Maintaining a loud and persistent criticism, including tough questions during interviews ans demanding answers through the coachspeak prevents Frank from dictating the narrative as he's done multiple times in the past to gloss over a bad performance.
Right now what this program needs is for the seat under Frank's ass to be red hot. Accountability at the top is lacking, and a vocal criticism of this staff's failures will make it more likely to happen.
No offense to you but I'm so damn tired of one score games.
You're right about not spewing negativity at the players, they're still kids. The coaches are grown men, doing a job. The campus has to support the players, even as it blasts the coaches. They can still win some games, but those wins should not excuse the staff. Mid-season firings are unclassy, and is not likely. That's why the fan-base is popping off in forums like this, venting so they aren't doing it on twitter and facebook, where the players can see. The staff knows how the fan-base feels, and so does the AD. Expect change this off-season unless it's completely turned around, and then expect it next year.
I'm sure players visit forums toi. If they're smart, they won't this week though.
Some of them sure, really think they seek it out though? I think they get on twitter and facebook to keep up with friends...why jump on message boards with disappointed fans?
Same reason we do I suppose.
I was thinking 2016 was cfb final year, because he wanted b@b. But this spiral just increased its slope.
So I disagree with the patience comment. Not having it would have been firing him after the first non 10 win season. Here we are now going into the 4th, and potentially worse season we have seen in a long time. That to me is actually patience. We gave Lefty 3 years to make the offense pop. No excuses of he didn't have his guys. And here we are, 9 rushing yards. He have solid Rbs too.
So I upped my timeframe after Pitt. I can't see going through this again.
Beamer apparently has a bell curve for his career, and we are over to high point.
What are all these people who are chanting for Loeffler's head going to do, if he gets back to averaging 500 yards a game again? So far this year, the offense has had 1 really bad game.
One bad game, one mediocre game and 3 good ones. 2 of the good games were against Purdue and an fcs, so I'm not sure how much stick to put in those
And he's doing it with no depth and a second string QB...
Which he's had three years to build. At what point is there no more excuses? Injuries and turnover happens everywhere. I'm not asking for an elite offense, just a consistently competent one.
I'll give you this, he's improving. But I think at this point most people are calling for beamers head, since just replacing loeffler isn't really an option at this stage in beamers career
Well, how much of the recruiting is on the rest of this staff/Beamer? You ask me, the recruits can see whats happening, and aren't even really consisdering it anymore until "that old who might retire next year," retires...
Beamer goes, most of the staff goes with him, Loeffler included, so it won't matter...I'm just saying the hating on him doesn't make sense given the fact that he still seems to be the most or second most capable coach on the staff (Bud is the other).
I'm not hating on Lefty, just explaining due process when it comes to patience in the NCAAF. Guys were asking for his head after the first year. Now it's been 3. He has had time to transfuse the whole offense to his guys, and production is still not blowing it away. Some reference the Purdue game as big offense, but if I recall, the D put the O in some favorable situations. Our O wasn't doing 80 yard drives every other series.
Beamer's fate will be decided by recruiting. Sadly, it's not going well. While we have some good WR prospects, we're getting shit out in-state and on most of our top targets. Whit has said he values recruiting more than on field results. As we're seeing now, recruiting predicts the future.
Wouldn't shock me if our best committ, troy pride jr doesn't de commit. He is taking some official visits to other schools.
He is not better than our wide receivers or qb in this class!
Yes , yes & yes ! Recruiting
I thought the reason Beamer kept Stinespring on the staff was because he's such a great recruiter?
The excuse was he's a great recruiter...the truth? hes a pretty good TE coach/recruiter....
Credit where it's due, he's a really good TE coach and a so-so recruiter. He's produced some excellent TEs.
http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/commitmen...
Out of the ten four or five star prospects in the state of Virginia this year, we have 0 commitments, with only Grant Holloway interested. In 2015, there were fifteen 4 or 5 star recruits, and we landed five of them. In 2014, there were thirteen, we landed four. In 2013, there were twelve, and we got three. In 2012, there were ten, and we got five.
From 2012-2015 there were eight five star prospects in the state of Virginia.
As we all know, last cycle FSU nabbed Josh Sweat. In 2014 we lost Da'Shawn Hand to Alabama, and Quin Blanding and Andrew Brown to UVA. In 2013, Derrick Green went to Michigan, Johnathan Allen went to Alabama, Christian Hackenberg went to Penn State, and Taquan Mizzell went to UVA.
We landed 0. UVA landed 3.
When you can't even out-recruit UVA in a state you should own, you obviously can't recruit.
We've had some very serious and in depth discussions on UVA getting those guys.
You need to go to the archives and discover that.
It will explain a lot.
Why should VT own the state of Virginia? We may think so, but we are obviously hugely biased people when it comes to that statement. Just because VT has been winning the VT-UVa matchup for way past recent memory doesn't mean every recruit coming out of HS should be headed our way. As Egbert is alluding to, UVa has had some pretty shady, albeit rumor-based, practices going on regarding their recruiting. When VT plays fair and doesn't make false promises or flat out lies, they probably don't have a level playing field. When VT hasn't been in national prominence for several years, how do you expect them to compete with teams who have been? (e.g. FSU, Alabama, Michigan)
Recruiting is so much more than "we're the best team in VA" or "we have the best family atmosphere" or "we've beaten UVa longer than most non-teenagers have been alive" or "we have the best campus food" or "playing for FSU or Alabama is like playing for the devil"....etc etc.
If we "obviously can't recruit", we wouldn't be in the ACC with 4 titles under our belt.
Same as last week, we were out coached and out played by another mediocre team. Sadly, I expect this to continue under this coaching staff. Beamer must sense this is the end , he never wants change unless threatened or under duress.
But aren't we just another mediocre team?
Alright, this is going to sound nuts, but even though the last 2 games have basically been a giant old dog excreting a gargantuan steaming pile of rhino turdshit on the field, I'm still on the fence regarding the Beams. I'd like him for one final season, but I think he should be forced to make and be involved in not only the improvement but the succession plan. Just my thoughts.
FB has turned a season around before now, and has the skill to do it again. But I have to admit, it's going to take a strategic shake up he may not be willing to do.
Case point regarding why your son should never be on your staff.
He's the CEO, and the best ones are able to step in and make big moves when the situation requires it. All eyes are on him, and deservedly so. As I sat in the East Stands during those last two drives i got a strong feeling I was seeing a turning point in Frank's tenure. I for one am glad to hear his remarks after the game. Late, yes, but I want to hear some fire in his words and today he had it.
A big problem is recruiting and fan support. I know the weather sucked today but 5 years ago we would have had 60k there today. If we have a bad season and fan support drops off then the next coach will have a tough time starting out bc of talent. At least a new coach will take over a team with a promising sophomore QB 2 very good receivers, decent backs and a better line situation we had a few years ago when SL arrived.
15 years ago we would have run for 250, had a pick six, blocked two punts, hit two deep balls and committed 4 personal fouls for unnecessary roughness and it was glorious. This fan base deserves to be upset, but it's also spoiled. The MV era gave everyone a false sense of belonging.
I slightly disagree with this for two reasons:
So what changes, if any, will Beamer make? I'm wondering if he is going to basically take over the offense and force Loeffler to line us up under center and run the football. I would hope we end the RB rotation and just feed McMillian. Also wondering if there will be shuffling on the OL and a change of direction at QB. Maybe he decides to just put Lawson in and see what we have? Who knows, maybe nothing will change at all.
To give an iota of credit to Shane. I saw Travon take one up the middle for 1 yard, JCC had been getting 2.
He also ran straight up and looked nothing like an interior rusher. The problem is that neither did the other 2. I truly don't believe that the rotation is the problem. Only a superstar talent could make something out of what the line is giving them. I do wonder if the absence and injury to searels could have had an impact on the line play the last 2 weeks. I wouldn't have thought it would, but the line play is looking worse each week. Play calling also pointed to the idea that the coaches are scared to death to run inside. I wonder if that's not the change Frank is referring to. To not power run in a rainy game means the coach either has no clue, or the coach knows the power running is a major weakness.
Edmonds looks like he dances into he hole and Coleman doesn't hit the hole hard. He had a hole early in the game but didn't hit it hard and it closed. Guess its easy for me to say since I am sitting in the stands and don't have 300 pound dudes trying to take my head off.
Maybe we should rotate the Offensive Coordinator position and Running Backs Coach position every other play with different coaches. Let's see how well SL and SB can do their job under those conditions.
My #1 would be Justin fuente, a Gary Patterson decipal, he's young, can recruit, played ball at ou and will be snatched up by a power 5 school before too long.
The worst thing I saw today was Motley on his knees injured at the end of the last offensive series and the first player to FINALLY help him up was a defensive player.
And absolutely zero O lineman got on the Pitt player that hit him well after the whistle on the one false start.
Outside of a few guys, this team has no "marbles"
Its absolutely terrifying to think that we're squandering Sam Rogers' career here....
Actually on this point I would disagree. He was also considering UVa. He's done well here and while I wasn't sold until this year in the OSU game, it was baffling to read a year or two ago how Shane really didn't think he had the right stuff for Tech when all his opposing coaches in high school were screaming, look at Rogers, look at Rogers. That's a red flag for arrogance or just not doing your job because you are not capable or lazy.
I think you missed the sarcasm in the statement. Pretend it was written in sarcastica, and you'll see what he meant.
Hehe, I sure did. Sam Rogers, be kind to me, please.
Right on with the "marbles". I'd sacrifice a personal foul or two to light a fire under this team.
I can't help but wonder how much Brewer's toughness and confidence inspired a "we'd die for you" attitude in the OL, and how much it's faded....their fire seems missing. Their coach out a game with back pain could be a factor too.
I really think Brewer is into pain. I don't know if his toughness inspired the OL more than it embarrassed them into doing their jobs.
That's a good question...actually motivated, or just embarrassed?
Don't look too much into it.... This is still all Curt Newsome's fault.
I really hope any of this isn't the case. Especially at the college level, I'd hate to think of anyone on our team wanting to step up more for one person more than the other. I'd really hope that everyone on our team would do their absolute best regardless of it being Brewer, Motley, or some kid we signed as a WR who played some QB in HS but is now our QB because we've had so many injuries at QB. If our players start to give up hope just because of a QB change....well, that my fellow Hokie friends, is just sad. And if it is because one of our QBs is a jerk, cocky, whatever, then shame on the coaches for thinking he'd be a good fit for VT AND for letting that sour the team.
I looked at this from the opposite perspective. One of the gifts a QB has to have is the sort of leadership that causes your teammates to give more when you're on the field. Brewer has that gift. When he was getting slammed last season he knew exactly what to say to his teammates to inspire (or shame) them to work harder. Apparently Brendan Motley doesn't have that gift at the same level. (I don't think LT3 did either, for all his other gifts.)
It's not so much a knock against Motley or the O-line as it is a recognition that Brewer has something special that not a lot of people have.
I saw Motley on his knees and thought of Y. A. Tittle.
At this point, Frank is basically stealing $2M a year. He isn't worth half that. The only change I'm interested in hearing about is the hiring of a new head coach.
Here is a great idea for starters...take the playbook out of Loffler's hand! This bull shit constant pre-snap motion is just flippin annoying..and obviously does not work. It is not getting players open or in ideal matchups. The jet sweeps and similar plays every 6 downs need to stop! Stop running the ball east and west and run RUN NORTH AND SOUTH for crying out loud. Take the running back duties from Shane, pick to backs and let them get into a rhythm and stick with them...again NORTH and SOUTH! Here is another idea.....how bout target I. Ford at least once in the first half next game, since he is the best WR and didn't get a pass thrown his way until the 3rd quarter today (Again Flippin Ridiculous)! This team is loaded, and I mean loaded with playmakers....but the offensive play calling and coaching is hindering there abilities. I wont call out any players by name, cause I respect them too much, but from what I saw today, some starters are NOT the best athletes on the field....so here is another idea. If a freshman / sophomore is better then your Junior / Senior starter.....Play the damn younger player....I mean geesh....how hard can it be to just play the most athletic players! How bout on Defense...we just take our fastest most athletic person that can actually tackle and put him a LB spot and just spy the QB. Game plan your other 10 players how ever you want.
Not throwing to Ford is Motley not Loffler.
I haven't studied any film of the Pitt game, but could it be possibly that Pitt picked up on how much Motley loved the connection to Ford and thus gameplanned to shut him down, and VT just wasn't prepared to have a consistent backup to the Ford option?
I like our starting WR and God's Gift, but I've become hesitant to use the word play maker with a VT player anymore. Go look at any top 30 team. There are 5 Ford's and Phillips. Those guys are awesome, but they are WR3 on most of the top programs.
It does work. Receivers were open all day today. Motley couldn't find them with three defenders in his face.
Our team sure did suck today. I mean I've seen teams suck before, but that was the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked
Frank Beamer's time in Blacksburg should come to an end at the end of this season. I know he wants to coach for the Tennessee game, but he just isn't getting the job done anymore. 4 straight seasons of mediocrity after being a power for over a decade just isn't acceptable. 1 or 2 I can deal with. 4 I can't. We've made the correct hires (although I wouldn't take that to the bank yet), we've stepped up recruiting, and we've all heard about the solid individual talent we have. What are we right now, though? 2-3. I hopped on the Frank Beamer bandwagon after the Cincinnati game. I believed that when the team is healthy and can run the ball, we have a pretty good team. But then I realized, Tech has had some pretty significant injuries in the past and still beaten teams like ECU and Pitt. There needs to be change in Blacksburg. You saw what happened at FSU once Bowden left. Why can't that be us?
We are currently ranked 44th in recruiting nationally and 8th in the ACC. Recruiting is the reason we are having these discussions. We have MAJOR holes in key spots and no depth. Talent is a bandaid for lack of coaching.
It's tough to understand, though, because back in the early 2000s, we recruited so well.
And I believe everyone has figured out that the 757 produces talent and now goes after them the same way we do. Also, the rise of the SEC in terms of football reputation is killing us. Especially since they can still point to the string of National Championships that conference won in consecutive years as proof positive they are the best in the land.
Were we really recruiting that well or did CFB & Bud have systems that beat more talented teams? I used to really enjoy the fact that we were in national discussions w/3/4* talent. But that was back in the days of Beamer Ball, kinda like when the Cowboys had a Doomsday D until the rest of the NFL solved the flex defense.
Didn't one of the ESPN guys, (Herbstreet, perhaps) say 'CFB has to quit going to the basement of the ACC to find his talent' a couple of seasons ago?
You may be right there, but we also don't have any players DeAngelo Hall in terms of being a danger to score every time they touch the football. We don't have any running backs like Lee Suggs or Kevin Jones. We haven't had a linebacker duo like Vince Hall and Xavier Adibi since then. We just don't get highly touted players anymore. Coaching is certainly an issue. Shane Beamer should not be allowed near any Virginia Tech running backs, but recruiting has certainly slipped.
Are you prepared to swallow your own Kool-aid if Frank's replacement (including assistant staff) goes less than 0.500 for 2, maybe 3 years?
On the point after he started to say its not lack of effort, and he actually back tracked and started talking about looking at that too. He then mentioned examples like a couple of freshmen who didn't get out on special teams plays. He sounded as mad on the point after as I have heard him in a while. So did Bud and Loeffler. Bud called out the secondary and said it wasn't very good right now. Loeffler called out the line and said we had guys running open.
Looking forward to seeing a lot of these green quotes on "This week in schadenfreude".
As bad as these loses have been, it seems like we have always won and lost games by a narrow margin and ugly football. Sorta like the Seahawks, this years Broncos or vintage Ravens. With a bad offensive showing today (Give the Narduzzi credit) we really were just one good linebacker away from winning that game. You could say that about ECU and most of last years losses as well.
Our ten win seasons had one common thread: barely any injuries. I mean Goforth had those guys iron clad. These last two years have been crazy with injuries and even worse with personnel decisions to replace obvious starters.
There is a bizarre breakdown between position coaches picking their starters and co-ordinators building a game plan that is not personnel specific. All those coaches are not working as a team, just operating independently of one another.
Very curious to see if this adversity binds the Hokies together or rips it all apart.
We're not going to make "This week in schadenfreude". No one cares about VT football anymore except us.
When I heard CFB say he was going to look at "personnel changes," it took me a while to realize he meant shuffling the players around. For a few minutes there I had hope that if he really was upset enough to make personnel changes, it might actually make a difference.
He doesn't have that kind of time.
Here's my simple look at this - Both Foster and Lefty like THEIR systems. Rather than put together a game plan and schemes that take advantage of what the personnel CAN DO, they force the personnel to play the scheme that THEY want played. It may work with a higher talent level and more athletic kids, but it ain't going to work with the personnel we have. You've got to play to the strengths of your personnel. I don't think either one of them does that.
I'm curious, "boomer, 77". George Roberts was the Tech punter in 76 and 77. Saw him play with San Diego against Chicago and Walter Peyton in '81. Nah, I'm reaching...
Close. Same period. I was a cheerleader at VT for 3 years 74-77. I had the nickname Boomer dating back to 1967. I also walked-on as a long snapper in 1976 and snapped to Punter - Bruce McDaniel. Only time on the field - Spring Game 1975.
We must have crossed paths. I was kind of a gray shirt walk on and played all of the '76 Spring game as a DB. I had lots of issues I could not resolve in my head and chose to attend a Peter Frampton concert in Roanoke rather than report to Fall camp on that Friday. I spent the weekend dodging Buddy Bennett's repeated calls to get me to come back, saying I wouldn't be sorry. I didn't have an answer for him.
We had some really good basketball players then, so being a cheerleader had perks all around I guess.
Yeah, my cheering partners were Vicki Nelson and Brenda Carmines. We had a blast. You must know Doug Carneal too, another walk-on and a guy I played along side of in high school. Went to TJ in Alexandria. I also worked at 7-11's in the area and ran the one on Draper Road when it opened until I left he Burg in 1977.
Wow, so many folks from Alexandria/NOVA back then, and still too for certain. It was a whole new experience for me, all those cool people. Draper Road 7-11. Was that a block or two up from Tequila Sunrise/After Sundown?? If so, you sold me beer. I was legal, 18 and all, and not that it mattered too much then anyway.
Hey, while with the team you might have done one of those things where the team takes out the underclassmen with the sole aim of getting them as smashed as possible? We did it January/February or so. They would assign at least one upperclassman to escort you and see that the mission was accomplished. Until that time I had never seen anyone throwing up beer like a gusher. Wildest thing which I doubt would/could happen today with a 21 year drinking age. Next morning I got up to go to class and promptly met the floor where I woke up later that afternoon.
Can't wait to snap this meaningless "bowl streak" Frank hangs his hat on. Then there is nothing left but a re-org. Frank deserves a better exit, but this is the reality. He should have left 4 years ago after Tyrod. We barely recruit mid-level talent. Does he do in-home visits anymore? Also, I was pumped for Shane to arrive, but what has he done? He was to be our recruiting superstar. REALLY? Before he got to Tech , I wouldn't have been able to tell you what a RB Coach does, but now I know because he's lost out there.
This team was always historically overmatched, but they were nasty. Even before Michael. We annihilated the teams we should and we beat some teams we shouldn't. They should retire that lunch pail. We have become a team without heart, energy, discipline and a will to beat the guy in front of you. I don't blame the kids. Frank-speak doesn't resonate anymore. Look who we have beaten at home in the past two years. Only ONE Power 5 team..UVA and we lost to a FCS team. We aren't even a laughing stock. We are that irrelevant.
Whit Babcock's impossible decision has become very easy.
I upvoted for this part alone. They should take the lunch pail , meat grinder, and any other symbol of excellence and lock them away for the rest of the season. No player should be allowed to have any of them for the rest of the season. Only the TEAM can win them back, and only after they get the job done at the end of the season. We have awarded too many singular victories and accomplishments that haven't lasted for any meaningful amount of time.
And..the majority of the talk is about the team's W/L this season and what should happen to Frank. The real issue is recruiting. Another season with Frank, is another season of 3 star talent. The hole is dug deeper. He needs to step down, we'll have a bunch of recruiting attrition (probably) and the next guy, who is guaranteed to be external, comes in and starts stocking the shelves. Even Re-Run London did that. But he was a cop.
I agree with this partly, but there is still the chicken and the egg problem. Good recruiting results in a better W/L record. But a better W/L record also results in better recruiting (it's hard to recruit well when you're cruising at just above 0.500). Our problem seemed to be the W/L record masked the poor recruiting. But then as the recruiting (supposedly) got better, the W/L record did not. So where exactly is the problem? :) Please pass the bourbon, it's my turn!
Is it bad that I would accept Al Groh as D-coordinator and lose Foster to get a good recruiting HC and solid O-coordinator?
We've seen that before here, some of us. That would harken back to the Charlie Coffey years of Kick-Arse O and weak D. Darn, it was fun watching Don Strock light up the airways.
Leg for Don Strock reference.
4-8 last 12 home game. Wins against W&M, Western Michigan, Furman, and UVA. Ouch.
damnit paper airplanes!!!!!!
If that record was closer to 12-0 there would be less time for fans to fold paper airplanes because they'd be too busy high-fiving or throwing their friends in the air.
This game today made last years Wake game look good! Coach Beamer had better make changes that work or it will just be more platitudes to hold the powers that be at bay. Not sure that is going to work much longer.
I was at both games and neither were good obviously but Wake was still more painful/embarrassing.
Somehow we managed to put up less yards but more points yesterday than we did against Wake.....
Motley's lack of vision and our O lines lack of blocking really make for an incredible 1 2 punch. I'll never quit cheering for this team, that's something I was born into. Having said that, after this kind of start, I am not emotionally invested in the least bit. Challenge my loyalty as you may, but I simply cannot take the disappointment after waiting all offseason for Hokie football. I'll show up, i'll cheer, but I really can't even make myself give a shit. Sorry.
This is one of those years where I expect a loss every game, and revel in the wins when they come.
This is the 4th year in a row I have felt that way
Did it seem to anyone else that a whole side of our defense had no idea what was going on pre snap. On multiple plays DBs and LBs were scrambling to get into position before the ball was snapped.
Yes.
I may have missed it but I never noted seeing any attempt at power running plays.
I wanted to see a Fullback lead or that in conjunction with a pulling guard or TE.
How about Rogers leading into a hole with Mckenzie following or maybe even Durkin coming in after him with the ball.
Amen! To add to that, did we run EVERY time on 1st down? And most of the time it was JCC for maybe 2 yds. No threat of a between the tackles run game and by the 2nd half, Pitt defenders were beating the backs to the ball on the jet sweep.
Is the option or a Power-I or even the occasional screen an effective way to loosen things up? Lord knows, I'm no coach nor anywhere near the analyst the folks here are, and I hate being a coach from the bleachers (I'm 1000-0 from there...) but for goodness sake, the weather and our RB talent was essentially BEGGING for a ground and pound game.
I stand by my comment on the vent thread that this one is in Lefty's lap.
My dream now is that Frank gets in Lefty's face and reminds him what VT Football was and should be. I also agree we should settle on 1 or 2 backs and run the piss out of them. I'm not convinced that it's all Shane making the subs, or maybe it is. Either way, it aint working.
OK, it's been about 24 hours after the game so I can with a clear head comment on what I saw at the game. First off, about 4 & 5* recruits. A friend of mine, who was a very succesful coach in NOVA said that VT changed their recruiting ways about 6 years ago because big donors were concerned about VT not getting the star recruits. VT used to get guys that would work in there system and then develop them into top flight players. Now, we are more concerned with their stars and who else is recruiting them. Remember Cam Chancelor was 2 or 3 star recruit. On to the game.
Offense line is awful.
Offense play calling is awful.
Shane should not be a coach on this staff, adds nothing.
Defense needs to wake up and quit reading the papers.
Special teams are mediocre at best.
Frank needs to work his retirement speech. And.
Get ready for a 4 and 8 season.
In short, this team is not very good and we all have been drinking way too much kool-aid.
The surprising thing to me this game is the complete different directions they teams went.
Last week O was on fire but D couldn't do anything to save their lives. This week complete opposite. D shows up and O can't move the ball to save their lives. If you combined last weeks offense with this weeks defense we would have shredded Pitt and would be coming away happy.
If we can combine the potential of the O which we know and the Potential of the D which we know we would be awesome. If those two can show up on the same day we'll have more results like the Purdue game.
As it has been said elsewhere, our unpredictability shows that we are mediocre. Everyone may have good flashes, but to be good requires more than that. A dominant defense forces opponents into a corner, a dominant offense imposes its will on other defenses. We have neither. Instead, we have average at best on both sides of the ball. And, when average is having an off game, it is awful. That was our defense last week and our offense this week and not one of us knows who it will be on Friday. The 2nd quarter versus OSU and the last 28 minutes vs. Pitt show what each side of the ball is capable of but it is only a tease until proven otherwise.
All of Hokie Country should realize now that this isn't the same Virignia Tech football we are use to seeing a couple of years ago. Saturday's loss was one of the worst performance seen by the offense. The defense started out pretty slow allowing Voytik and Conner run over us with the draw play. Defense stepped up during it's time when it really needed to happen. Their isn't much to say how terrible the O-Line preformed. Now it's not all their fault, Motley can't stand in the pocket but so long and just expect someone to be wide open. I think after so many times of him getting sack and we are down 17-13, why not put Lawson in? It's not going to hurt at that point. Now I do understand we want to win, but he deserves his spot. I think Lawson fits this offense more then Motley, because Motley isn't all that athletic when it comes to running. Lawson has the arm and the size to do whatever is needed. I want to see some big changes to help us find our ACC wins. They said this is the year we go back to Championship so we need to find out what's missing. Having Kendall and Brewer (coming back) does put a impact on this team losing two leaders on both side. I don't now about you guys but I'm ready for Friday to turn things around.