1. Good thing we didnt get out coached in the game and give Miami 10 points. (Time outs at the end of the 1st half and Going for it on 4th and 5 instead of the field goal)
2. If Brewer was ready to go why wasnt he out there sooner?
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So your number one issue is the coaching staff being aggressive?
The coaching staff being wrong is mine.
If they were conservative and wrong, that's one thing. Being aggressive and then your experienced players playing like freshmen is the mind boggling part.
The coaches coach the players, bro.
That is a lazy excuse. These are seniors making dumb mistakes. They are just as accountable.
But if coaches don't point out the mistakes, then the players will keep repeating.
There are guys in stripes with little yellow flags that have pointed them out quite well.
Maybe they wouldn't be making dumb mistakes as seniors if the coaches had done an adequate job coaching the last 4 years.
You play how you practice. I'm inclined to believe that these guys aren't disciplined in practiced for this shit, so it continues during the game. Frank used to be all about doing the little things right. Now we can't even do the basic things right. It's time to move on.
This is what I've been seeing for a few years now, and is why I'm slowly joining the "It's time for Frank to ride off into the sunset" bandwagon. Back in the late '90's and early '00's, we always seemed to be one of the least penalized teams in college football (minus the annual Miami games. Those games always seemed to get a bit chippy and resulted in a few unsportsmanlike conduct flags.) It was always noted that low penalty numbers was a hallmark of a well-coached team. For several years now, we seem to be far worse than average in penalties. (I don't have numbers to back that up, but it's certainly the impression I get. Please feel free to fact-check me on that.) On the bright side, my long-running beef with block in the back penalties negating so many of our kick and punt returns seems to have been cleared up, but we're still getting way too many penalties, in my opinion.
In general, your observation about penalties is right. Since 2000, we haven't been really stellar in terms of overall rank, but while we were generally in the top half until 2010, we're definitely in the bottom half in the last 5 years and on an overall bad trend.
2000 (37, 55.7 ypg)
2001 (54, 67.2 ypg)
2002 (46, 53.1 ypg)
2003 (46, 54.8 ypg)
2004 (93, 63.9 ypg)
2005 (43, 53.6 ypg)
2006 (66, 51.1 ypg)
2007 (72, 55.6 ypg)
2008 (6, 34.6 ypg)
2009 (42, 48.8 ypg)
2010 (19, 41.6 ypg)
2011 (75, 53.2 ypg)
2012 (61, 51.0 ypg)
2013 (81, 51.7 ypg)
2014 (92, 59.2 ypg)
2015 (103, 71.0 ypg)
Stats from cfbstats.com for 2008-2015, ncaa.org for 2000-2007. Ranks are FBS/Div-IA only.
Wow, I didn't realize we are actually doing worse this year than last. I had the feeling that we had gotten a little better, just not good enough. Thanks for doing that digging for me.
It used to be that VT looked for tiny advantages that were within their control, and exploited those to win by inches.
Now it seems to cede those advantages in chunks to teams that are comparable in skill.
As many times as I've seen Wiles with his ball-on-a-stick and yelling "HUT" when running drills with his DL, I've got to believe that at some point responsibility shifts off of him just a bit.
Respondeat superior.
My issue would be the coaches being bad. Being aggressive is just a buzzword to make yourself feel better when coaches are making bad decisions
Nice hindsight. Your logic allows "legitimate" criticism no matter what happens.
No my number one issue is calling stupid time outs when there was 50 seconds on the clock, they are deep in there own territory, you get the ball back to start the 3 rd quarter, and they are clearly trying to run the clock out. The risk was not worth the reward.
The 4th and 5 in the 3rd you take the field goal and pull to within a td instead of nothing. Frank has never been good about being aggressive. I believe it was the first ACC championship game where we went for it on fourth down a couple of times and didnt get them either.
It really does feel like we have worst 4th down conversion ratio in the conference over the past decade.
I think the timeouts critique is a bit hindsight being 20/20. In theory we'd get the ball back with about 20-30 seconds and only needing 25 yards for a go ahead FG. Then we'd get the ball with the lead to start the 3rd. But Slye isn't accurate so for end of 1st half or that 4th down decision, it's really only dumb luck if we make the kick or not in either situation.
The big problem is that we suck in basically every phase of the game. You just never know which phase is going to suck worse from game to game. Generally you could count on the defense being good for 10 or 11 games a year, but they're really bad this year too.
Not that it matters but I was thinking WTF are we doing calling these time outs with 50 seconds left in the half during the game. Its obiviously a bigger deal given what happened but I still think we werent really going to get anything out of getting the ball back with 30ish seconds left.
You are correct, of course. It's a close call, but either decision is "correct" -- if it works.
I liked the call -- at the time.
Yeah, at the time I was like "OK, that could work out" on the timeouts. I'm not going to judge a nearly 50/50 call because Miami pulled out an pretty unlikely TD.
Going for it on 4th and 4 when he was going to kick a longer FG, I wondered out loud what the fuck he was doing. That was, at the time, clearly a bad decision.
I agree, and thought the same thing at the time.
They were going for a kick that was a little out of range, got a penalty that put them more in range, and decided to go for it on 4th and 4.
It wasn't a terrible call, but also maybe not the most obvious one.
I don't know how much more disappointment my liver can take. Not even sure what changes to make at this point, this team just isn't very good.
Clemson is currently undefeated. They've won 13 home games in a row.
If VT has hopes to win the ACC, that's also where they should be right now.
VT isn't even close.
1) No issue with the timeouts. That was the right way to go, giving us a chance at a field goal right before the half when we get the ball back again. Why Woody thought he should jump on 3rd and 20 I'll never understand.
2) Motley has played well for the most part this season. I'm sure we wanted to see how he'd do before risking Brewer to injury and making him knock the rust off against Miami on the road. When it was obvious Motley wasn't going to win the game for us, in comes Brewer. Again, no problems at all with this. If Brewer had struggled, we all would have been screaming about not riding the hot hand and sticking with Motley, etc.
All that said, I have the same feeling now as I had during James Johnson's last season. That's just about all I have to say on that.
Even in the games where Motley's stats have looked good, I have not been convinced by his ability and have felt he's a far cry from what Brewer offers on the field. Even in his good games, Motley has stared down his primary read and had no pocket awareness. The difference is that only the teams with decent defenses have taken advantage of those shortcomings.
Not saying I don't agree, not saying I wouldn't have thrown Brewer back in so fast I would've broken his collarbone myself. Just saying I see why the coaches did it.
The reason they are not undefeated like Clemson is because instead of playing for the championship we start focusing on keeping our consecutive bowl games intact. If that's their goal, they will never achieve anything more.
They'll be lucky to achieve that.
1) agree to disagree. I am not going to change your mind and I am not changing mine.
2) I agree but then you dont pull him and push Brewer in like you did. If Brewer was ready to go put him in for the whole game. It feels like were are going to have a Quarterback rotation now (sarcasm).
I could be wrong but I think the real reason Brewer came in was because Motley is banged up enough now that he couldn't plant and make good plays.
With that said there are no more excuses at this point.
The team once again looking unprepared...O-line not pass blocking and Motley wtf...we just can't get anything going.
O line was fine in pass pro. Motley held on way, way too long. Lacks a bit of pocket awareness.
Agreed. On his last sack, he completely failed to see the secondary receiver coming across wide open because he was locked on a covered receiver. His decision making was off from the start. I think his fumble to start took Motley out of the game from the start. Bottom line, the players, particularly Motley and the D-line's stupid penalties cost the game today and I suspect they know it.
Oh man. The video has me crying laughing
Same, needed a good laugh. That how the refrain goes, everybody join in! Lost it.
WE SHOULD HAVE WON THIS GAME. No excuses
I would agree.
I actually disagree. Not because of excuses, but because VT has fallen further than Miami.
Glory days are gone.
Glory days have been gone a long time
We could have and should have won the game. Really stupid mistakes (DL & QB) killed us. We are better than scUM and would win 7/10.
Yes, but in reality we won 0 of the last 2.
More like 6/10, apparently.
Why? Miami played better than us. There arn't any games VT "should" win anymore. Think about that for a moment...
I disagree. Although we didn't dominate I thought we were clearly the better team. McMillan got to basically wherever he wanted today but turnovers and just poor coaching cost us about 20 points. That's tough to overcome no matter who you are
Turnovers and bad coaching count the last I checked. Did Miami make those same mistakes?
Actually they did have 2 defensive and 1 offensive PI penalties that cost them; oh wait, they weren't called for any of them. That said, Motley's mistakes were too much today.
I wouldnt say we were better. I think it was a game with two equal matched teams that could have gone either way.
Agree. And the team that made the mistakes (penalties and turnovers) lost. Sometimes it really is just that simple.
Agreed. These are two ACC Coastal teams that aren't going anywhere of importance this year.
I don't know how you can say we were clearly the better team when we weren't.
It's past time to stop talking about games we "should've won". For some reason, we as VT fans feel like every game we lose, we should've won. That's laughable. Hell, we carry that damn overturned Danny Coale TD in the 2011 Sugar Bowl like some sort of badge of honor. We lose games because we either get out coached or outplayed. And that happens a lot with the Hokies. Period. Let's just own it and stop whining about getting our asses kicked. Maybe if we as a fan base held our players, coaches, and administration to a little more accountability, we might start seeing some changes that will make our program half ass relevant again. Because right now, we're nothing more than an ACC bottom feeder.
If I knew how to embed a meme, I'd post that Morgan Freeman meme, pointing up at this comment, saying "he's right, ya know" (or whatever that meme says)
There ya go
Perfect - have a leg for your trouble...
This guy f*ing nailed it! Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Stop feeling sorry for yourselves. Losers try their best, winners go home and fuck the prom queen.
Since I know how to embed video:
I wish I could buy you a beer.
Boo
There's a difference between losing because the other team is really good and losing because we did made a ton of mistakes and bad decision that cost us. The reason we "should" have won that game isn't because we're entitled to a win in almost every game. It's because it's a realistic expectation to kick the field goal on 4th and 4. It's realistic to expect Motley to take better care of the ball on the Miami 23 yard line, and it's obvious just to let Motley sneak a 3rd and 1 instead of handing it to the second string tailback who had a total of 3 carries. Thinking about that and many more mistakes makes me sick. So yes, we SHOULD have won
I think you are confusing "We should win this game" and "We should have won that game" I agree that our program is past "We should win this game" but there is nothing wrong with watching a game and seeing that everything was there to give us a win and we find a way to screw it up. Poor coaching, penalties, turnovers, ect. And thinking "Damn, we should have won that game." There is no entitlment needed. Shitty teams can feel that way too. Your argument is spot on but should be used when saying "We should win this game."
In general I agree with what you're saying.
the only question I have, though, is how do we as a fan base hold our players, coaches, and administration more accountable? I don't really know how we can achieve this by doing any more than what we've been doing...which is noisily voicing our concerns on an internet based fan message board. What more can we realistically do? I'm all ears. I want to see a change just as much as the next guy, but I don't know what I can possibly to do influence such a change.
Message boards accomplish nothing except provide us with catharsis. It becomes an echo chamber. Bottom line is there is one thing to do if you have a complaint: you contact Whit and VT Athletics. Don't harass the players (I am sick as hell of seeing people ripping them on social media). Don't harass the coaches (because that also accomplishes nothing). You contact (and don't harass) the man in charge. You voice your displeasure, and better yet, tell him what you think should be done. That's his job to take care of. Anybody doing anything else, in my mind, is just being unproductive. The AD cares about donors and fan experience. If either of those falter, that's what will make him take notice. Yelling and cursing in forums is just noise and is easily tuned out.
I agree you should go right to the source, but social media these days does get the attention of people.
If used properly, yes. And Whit is also active on Twitter, as is President Sands. I'm happy to see that.
But if people are using it as a conduit to vent or lambast someone, it's not productive. I have seen death threats against the Michigan punter. People were tweeting at Shai last night how horrible he was and that he wouldn't turn VT around. The guy didn't even play and he's getting shit for yesterday. Unbelievable. That's how you really burn this thing to the ground - tell the players you've lost faith in them. That does nothing, in my mind, except turn apathy into defeatism. Cheer the players. Demand better from the leaders.
I agree wholeheartedly with every thing you've said. The ugly, and ultimately ironic, side of this new "social age" is that it actually produces anti-social and dangerous behavior. People are allowed to make death or terroristic threats without repercussion. Social media gives people a place to pound their chests (or keyboards) and find meaning in what otherwise proves to be a meaningless existence for them. That's not meant as a slight against those sharing opinions here or other avenues, but is directed at those who decide to threaten a life over something as a trivial as a football game. I'm a die hard Hokie. I have been for all 31 years of my life, and longer if count my attendance at games prior to my liberation from the womb. But I have never once thought I'll tweet someone I don't know and tell them how worthless I think their existence is. It's sad.
This is the world we've created. These are the unintended consequences of a world that is better connected all around.
But if people are using it as a conduit to vent or lambast someone, it's not productive. I have seen death threats against the Michigan punter. People were tweeting at Shai last night how horrible he was and that he wouldn't turn VT around.
Twitter isn't necessarily the same as harassing or threatening players. One can also express dissatisfaction in an appropriate way.
Like any medium, it can be used for good or evil.
"We lose games because we either get out coached or outplayed."
Duh.
Doesn't mean we should have been outplayed. In this instance we had no business doing all the stupid @#$% it took to lose.
We are better than scUM.
If we were better we would've won. We can make excuses about 4 or 5 plays or if this penalty or that penalty didn't happen all we want. That goes for any team. If 4 or 5 plays would've went the other way for Miami, we would've gotten blown out. And we allow the coaches to use those kinds of excuses every week. Blaming the players. Well who recruited those players? And who coaches them every week? Bottom line, it's the coaches ineptitude that's causing the results we're seeing on Saturdays.
As for how can we start holding our coaches and AD accountable? Send a well put together and level headed email informing Whit that if changes aren't made, you'll withdraw your support for the program and stop attending games. If enough folks do that, I promise that will get his attention. Unless you're satisfied with barely making a worthless bowl game every year and having to watch our team play their very best football game to beat UVA.
This may not be a vent, but it's an observation that's gnawing at me.
If we're going to feature McMillian as our lead back, I don't want him returning kickoffs. He should save his energy.
In the 4th quarter when we need a big play from somewhere, I say get him the ball however you can, as much as you can.
Plus he knows which direction to run.
What you did there, I see.
Fair, but he's on the KR team all game.
Todd Gurley returned kicks for Georgia when he was the #1 Rb. If Travon can't return a kick a couple times per game, while only getting 16 touches, then there is something dramatically wrong with our strength and conditioning coaches.
Sads thing is, you may actually not be off.
It hurts to watch this team! Right as we gain momentum we have a penalty, a stupid INT (second Motley INT). And what has happened to our supposed best D line in the country? John Gruden for head coach!!!
I wish
Same comments as 2013 and 14. What is it they say about about doing same thing over and over and expecting a different result? This group of coaches (most of them) were exceptional for a long time and we will probably never see a run like that again But things passed CFB by some time ago and he doesn't even realize it. We are not on the way back and in fact are getting worse. The longer we wait to clean house the longer it will take to rebuild.
I was on the other side in 2013 and 2014 because I believe a coach / coaching staff needs 3 years to turn around a program. This is the make or break year and its obvious at this point which year this is.
We are now entering the Bobby Bowden zone.....please make sure your seatbelts are fastened and tray tables are in an upright and locked position. It's going to be a bumpy ride.
I'm not here to vent. I actually like the aggressive approach and believe Frank was playing to win, not just to avoid losing. Unfortunately, the only cure for what ails Virginia Tech is significantly improving the talent and depth on the roster. Frank and Bud aren't capable of doing that at this point in their careers.
It's time to clear the deck and start a new era with a new staff in Blacksburg,
Actually, our class this year and the incoming classes for 16 & 17 are good. We are still recovering from 3-4 years of poor recruiting. If CFB goes, I hope Bud stays to at least keep some of the recruits and he's willing to use the new talent sooner. CFB's loyalty and fear of using youth because of mistakes is not working, especially when it is the Senior's that are screwing up with the penalties. I say clean house and sit some of the Seniors.
We've played more true freshmen in the last two years than ever under Beamer. This really isn't a thing any more. Our problems run deep, but the "rigid loyalty to upperclassmen" really isn't at the forefront.
Your use of facts has no place here.
Ugh...iunno where to start so I'm gonna leave it vague....I'm gonna go drink myself into a coma. Later guys!
Just stay clear of the Reload enhancer
No clue what you're talking about but I will refrain from drunk posts on here again...
I have been both a long-time fan of Virginia Tech and lurker of TKP. After the Pitt game, the frustration with the past few seasons and with Beamer finally got to me. I felt the need to vent, so I finally made an account here on TKP. After a few hours though, I had cooled down and decided not to post my frustrations. I had supported keeping Beamer up until that game. I knew that many on this forum shared the sentiment that Beamer should be gone, and I didn't have anything else to add.
After NC State, I was optimistic yet again. I thought to myself, "how can one game be the tipping point for my frustrations with Beamer?" I convinced myself that my frustrations, while justified, were a little extreme after that game. I convinced myself to give Beamer another chance.
Now, after yet another let down, I have once again been convinced that Beamer's time has come and at last I do not believe I can be convinced otherwise. I have defended Beamer, Logan Thomas, and even Loeffler for YEARS despite strong criticism from my friends. But this is it. Even though I write this in an emotionally charged state, one that comes from watching Tech football the past few years, I am now 100% convinced that Frank's time has come.
Can I blame him for Motley's fumble? No. Can I blame him for injuries? No. However, I can blame him for a team that is playing undisciplined football. I can blame him for questionable timeouts leading into halftime. I can blame him for this loss and for the current state of this program.
As a member of #teamcake, I'm glad you're also a member. But I'm surprised by your moniker "EatTheCrust," which sounds like a supporter of #teampie.
I don't know, sounds like the kind of logic I would expect from #teamcake.
It's actually a reference to a drunk night where I was upset that people weren't eating their pizza crust from Benny's haha.
Then you'll be disappointed in my stance on this subject. One of my life tenets is that you save the outer crust for dead last. Why waste your time / calories with the boring outer crust, as long as there is the good stuff (ingredients, sauce) remaining?
This is why, when I have my pizza, I eat the regular part down until there's about an inch of sauce/cheese, then I fold that over the crust and eat it all together.
Can't lose.
I might as well chime in, I can't bring myself to comment about the game...
I always eat the crust first, it seems wasteful to not eat it, and I always try to save the best bite for last, so it lingers in my mouth for a few minutes after finishing
If it's a really good crust to begin with, I'll do that sometimes.
It's those pizzas with the drier crusts (e.g. Papa John's) that caused me to use the method I described.
Clear eyes, full hearts? Maybe we can hire Kyle Chandler as our next head coach.
This! Unless you have some marinara, the crust is for the dogs!
So when we beat Duke next week will you be back on the Beamer Wagon?
I dont think I will be getting back on that wagon
That's a fair question, but it kinda falls apart between the "So" and the "week."
I've been fooled into believing that the next game is the beginning of the turnaround too many times. I've come to terms with the fact that we shouldn't need a game that is a turnaround. If the team was living up to its potential, we wouldn't be in this position. If we beat Duke, and look semi-competent on the field, then I'll be convinced Beamer should finish the season. We lose, and I think it's time for a Spurrier-esq mid-season retirement.
I'm already looking forward basketball season. At least my expectations don't include the idea of winning an ACC championship.
For some reason I feel the exact same way. I'm excited for basketball season for no good reason at all.
Fuck, were starting to sound like Duke and UNC
I have no issue with the timeouts. That is not a bad call.
I have HUGE issues with the offside and rushing the passer penalties. That donstrates a lack of discipline, and that's on the coaches.
So timeouts are fine. It's the penalties that are the indictment on this coaching staff.
Just realized we might win only 3 games this year.
i agree, i don't see how we win another game this year and that includes loluva
Lets get serious. BC on its 3rd string QB, LOLUVa, UNC (toss UP). I'd say we got a shot at 3 more wins this year, without even weighing in on Duke at home
BC's defense looks like it will do more than enough to take the pressure off their offense against us.
And Wake Forest had no conference wins last year.
The way the D looks, UNC will burn us all day
Gotta Give Em' Credit.
I will forfeit my entire paycheck to the athletic department and live in a fucking box if the money goes towards hiring a competent (in both the legal and coaching sense) head coach.
I thought about bumping the Hokie Club thread and posting something similar. I'm only in the second level of Hokie Club giving (recent grad, building the funds) but I would totally double down on my donations if it meant making a home run football coaching hire.
This is what's needed but instead people will 1) stop going to the games this season costing money from lost revenue 2) decrease or stop giving to Hokie Club costing program money 3) not preorder tickets for Bristol/bowl games/ next season costing money
If I could go to every game, I still would, even to cheer on this team. I love Virginia Tech. I love the football program. I will support us to the end. But I expect something in return. I understand the mindset of people who will not re-up their donations. I understand people who won't buy tickets. I don't necessarily blame them. But if Whit is gonna be worth his paycheck, he needs to do WHATEVER IS NECESSARY to get people to fork over a portion of theirs.
Agreed, he needs to start by getting the 2000+ Hokie Club members back that we lost since 2011. The last thing I need to hear from Whit is that I should be giving more. The fact that we have less than 10000 members is really a sign that the Hokies have never really had a large, dedicated following.
LMAO! Sorry, just had some thoughts. But yes, you're 1K% right and correct.
It's been the same tired rhetoric and nonsense for past 5-6 years. Any argument against Brewer starting because they didn't want him to get hurt makes little since when he actually played. That said, I have no problem with wanting to protect him from a life of potential problems that would come with a multiple serious injuries. I have a problem with poor logic. The basic argument is: "we don't want to risk him getting injured if he starts, but we're okay if he gets injured as a back up option" or "we're okay if he gets injured because Motley is shitting the bed right now". Both are nonsense.
I hate the fire Beamer posts after a loss. I make the next points not as a "fire CFB" post, but merely as an observational argument.
The argument that Beamer deserves to go when he's ready is, again, nonsensical. That thought process works in no other aspect of life. If you're a shareholder in a publicly traded company and the CEO is driving it into the ground, are you not pounding the board of directors to make a change? Of course you are. Well, we're all shareholders in the publicly traded company know as VT Football. To continue to allow him and his ineptness to ruin the football program because you're blinded by nostalgia is silly.
The only thing CFB has done consistently over the past few years is use nepotism and cronyism to it's fullest potential.
I hope the reasoning behind not starting Brewer had to do with game planning.
If the team wasn't sure his availability for the game until late in the week, then create the game plan around Motley and go with that. It keeps the week on schedule.
Although there's no excuse for Brewer to not start from this point.
The first paragraph better explains my feeling on the Brewer situation
If I could give these 2 legs I would
You know you've hit bottom when you point out that you would have won, if not for all the penalties and mistakes.
It really sucks how losing gets in the way of winning. #Madden'd
We'd have for sure won those close games, if we hadn't lost them.
It's a corollary to the "five plays" theorem.
There is a third option:
Single greatest use of this meme in recorded history.
False. True bottom is not having the chance to win at all.
I request to never get there, please.
We're still pretty far away from that. Which I suppose is something we can take solace in?
That was last year's Miami game.
I get the notion that we were trying to be aggressive and get the ball back before the half, but it completely backfired, so yes you have to question it. We had the momentum before the half and that drive took the air out of the entire team.
I will also continue to question Coach Lefty's ability to get us ahead of the chains on first down. We are constantly in 2nd and long situations and it kills our ability to drive sustain drives. Lefty is god awful and he needs to go.
How about going for it on 4th and 4 when we could have put 3 on the board and cut the lead a bit.
This game was given away on coaching decisions, not on the players.
I've just become frustrated with the entire team. I don't have any faith in Loeffler, and I've started to lose faith in Bud too. I think it all starts at the top with Frank. I thought before the season began that this would be a pivotal year, one way or another. We aren't seeing the improvement we should have seen. This season is looking a lot like the ones before it. We have completely stagnated, and this rebuild isn't working. Now that the D is down and can't be counted on to bail us out, we could find ourselves in a world of trouble. I don't see three easy wins left on the schedule.
You forgot the unforced fumble at the beginning of the game to give Miami 7.
I made this comment after the NCSU game.
History just keeps repeating itself.
Can't see any justification for keeping Beamer next year, but I'm just harping on the same thought process most people have now.
edit: Also, it will be interesting to see the justification for starting Brewer like they did. If he was healthy enough, why did they not start him immediately? If he was not healthy, why did they risk the kid's future?
The power of rationalization is astounding.
Honestly... I didn't care that we lost this game. I enjoyed the fight we had but I didnt even get mad when we threw that last INT. I expected it. I expected the loss. I kind of expect us to lose out.
For me, apathy has set in. I don't care about this team anymore until they start to show they are actively trying to get better. I really just don't care anymore.
I wish I could get there.
I'm not comfortably numb.
It took me a while to get there, but even last week wasn't enough to de-numb me
Me and you both. I'm to the point where I pretty much want us to lose so that something HAS to change, but at the same time I want us to win because of the kids on the team. Beamer and his buddies are a problem, and have been for years now.
I actually had to get pushed out the door to go watch the game today. In the past that would have never happened.
The problem is, once apathy sets in for me, it takes a lot to get me invested again. I suspect I'm not alone.
"Once apathy sets in it takes a lot to get me invested again . I suspect I'm not alone. I assure you that you are not alone. . Having watched Tech football for 65 years, I have never been as dejected,downcast,despondent,disheartened,dismal,doleful,low spirited,melancholy,miserable,morose,sad,gloomy,glum& low about the future of this program with these coaches . We desperately need a new coaching staff. Hopefully change will come soon and the "nightmares " of the past few years will be over or at least hope for the future. Whit it's up to you the ball is in your court.
Judging from your posts in the cumulative, I don't think you're apathetic. I think you want to see VT to do well, but you've come to the realization that perhaps absolute failure of program will equal potential changes to get changes necessary to get back to excellence.
Apathy would be not posting, not caring whether change happens, and going shopping at the mall with your significant other during the game. I don't think you're there, yet. And I pray, VT and their fans never succumb to apathy, because no program can rebound if apathy sets in.
Sometimes you just gotta hit....
Oddly enough, you usually hit some false bottoms first, and then rationalize those away.
I honestly don't really know how to feel about this game. We definitely seemed capable of winning, but at the same time, I felt that Miami was the better team. Miami routinely converted big plays that continued their drives while we shot ourselves in the foot.
Motley had some good plays, but it is pretty evident that he can't make the quick decisions necessary to move the ball effectively. I can understand why the coaches didn't want to start Brewer, but if they were worried about his health, then why have him dress?
Defensively, I think we all know that Bud's D thrives on being able to get to the QB. These past couple of games, I don't think that this team is really capable of consistently doing that. If the team can't be relied on to get the QB, then I think we need a new defensive strategy. It's a darn shame that we don't have more depth at DE, because I think it's starting to show.
Not sure where the team goes from here, but with Pitt winning today, our chances of winning the Coastal just took a big hit. If winning the Coastal is off of the table, I sincerely hope that this team wins for the sake of pride, something I strongly think has been lacking since 2011.
lol
I'm a goal oriented guy, it is my sincere hope that the team is goal oriented as well...unless their goal is to get a new coach.
"
...unlessESPECIALLY if their goal is to get a new coach."FIFY
Spot them a ball on the 3: 7 points
Call a timeout to "PIN" them deep in their zone, only to jump offsides, give them a free play and watch them put 7 up before the half
Kick field goals inside the 20.
Lose by 10.
Profit????
Put me on the bandwagon...it's time! Sigh
Remember when we were denying ourselves pussy touchdowns, those were the days!
Now they are all denying us. And I feel nothing.
We are behind the times offensively, and special teams wise. The teams that are winning are winning with pro-type offenses that run it effiecently under center. 10 years ago the spread teams were the ones offensively killing it. Oregon is the exception not the rule.
We went to a spread offense that really isn't helping us win games since we don't sustain drives. Our defense wears out and then they can't keep offenses off the field.
Out special teams have not been anything special in years.
A pro style offense would work, but the reason Stinespring failed is because he relied on out being QB being superman way to often. Get a good solid coordinator and I think we would be back to winning.
Don't get me wrong Bud shares the blame. The biggest thing that has bugged me since I became a VT fan (I grew up out of state and disnt really care about College Football before I went to Tech). Is that we didn't take advantage of recruiting better talent when we were at the top of our game. Our biggest weakness in Defense is that we get abused by more physical offenses because we are fast and small. We have needed to get bigger our lines, but have failed to do anything recruiting wise to fix it.
Would it be OK to run a zone every once and a while? We play press man, don't get pressure on the quarterback, and get burned big play after big play.
We still do... don't listen to the commentators... they are morons.
I don't really care anymore. We knew this team was bad and wasn't going anywhere after ECU. The Pitt game just got me to the point where I fully expect every game to be a loss. So this is whatever.
McMillian is awesome. Ford is awesome. "DBU" is still horribly overrated and they don't deserve to call themselves that.
Hope we get a competent coach for next year.
I agree with almost everything here except for the last part. This time last week we couldn't stop praising Facyson (deservedly so) for his efforts against NC State. Now, after losing to probably the best QB in the Coastal, we're gonna say our entire secondary is overrated? It was a bad day, just like OSU part deuce was a bad day for DBU. But recognize who you're playing against.
Exactly. Every time "DBU" plays against a good offense they look like DBWho. I can look like a badass DB playing against pop Warner teams. We had one lock down corner, and he's out for the year.
Facyson leads the ACC in passes broken up and passes defended.
Facyson is pretty good, but he can't do it alone.
Facyson is a good player but where does our defensive backfield rank nation wide in pass defense? After you adjust for strength of schedule. We got absolutely torched by OSU, ECU made us look pretty bad, and Miami was driving down the field at will. How many 3rd and longs did they convert yesterday? I lost count. Just like the big plays. If you're gonna call yourself DBU, you should probably lead the nation in INTs and pass breakups. Or at least be top 5. I know this is hard for some people to accept but we just aren't very good at football. We have a few good players but that's it. I almost feel sorry for guys like Ford, McMillian, and Hodges because they'd be talked about every week on ESPN if they played on a decent team. Instead they just get lumped into the mediocrity that has become associated with our team's national perception.
I'm getting really tired of watching our DBs play the receiver, not the ball.
I'm not one to blame officiating, but the zebras really sucked in this game. Holds on every play, dirty late hits not called, inconsistent PI flags.
I too hated the timeouts at the end of the half, but that could have easily been a +3 decision instead of a -7 decision. I won't pile on there.
I hate Miami. There were dirty little late hits on nearly every play. Or accidental kicks and steps to the head. I just hate them.
I do think we could have won today. The more I think about what the missing link is to this team, the more I come back to the qb position. I like Motley and Brewer, but they just aren't gamebreakers. I miss having the most exciting player on offense being the qb.
Thumbs up for Mcmillian today. I don't know if he will ever be the low running inside pounder that I want him to be, but he sure showed a he'll of a lot of upside today.
Glad I'm not the only one to have seen all the BS the Cane's got away with today. Even the ESPN announcers were making excuses for them when they did get called for the unsportsmanlike penalty on the last TD.
McMillian is the real deal and should be touching the ball a whole lot more. Lefty talks about power football, but, he doesn't coach it or call it, especially in the red zone. I really like the thought of McMillian and Williams as the running tandem next year, but, this staff won't take advantage of that.
Unfortunately, today's loss is really on the players. They made the mistakes, especially the upper classmen. Time to give the youth more time.
amen with those sorry arse refs... worst offensive pi non calls i've ever seen... holds on dadi like crazy....late hits ... attempts to injure
only guy worked up was #36? Alexander.... he should be our next coach
Lost for words at this point, I was in Lane last Friday on cloud 9 thinking about how I'd love to go to another game b4 the season ends. Now I'm at work and totally bummed out wondering if it's even worth money to go to a game next season. All this talent with a 3-4 record is absolute bullshit, maybe it's time for Whit to make some heads spin.
Well at least Lawson got some meaningful PT today.....
*ducks
I feel bad for Lawson. This has been a waste of a year of eligibility for him. At this point I wouldn't mind just starting him and seeing what we've got in him for next year.
Im in the same boat but as long as CFB and Loeffler are still here, you can put that hope to bed.
I'm also pissed about how VT's bball team has lost 9 of the last 11 to Miami, but I can only worry about 1 thing at a time I guess.
I just don't know WTF is going on anymore with our football program:
Or maybe I do and I just don't want to admit it to myself:
Not much to be confused about at this point.
The situation is pretty clear.
Loeffler before the game said "expect Brewer to play today". Brewer only came in after Motley's 2nd int.
He must of known Motley was going to have 2 int's and a fumble today! /s
he is a genius
This team doesn't have "it" to get through these close games. "It" is something a Tyrod, Brandon Flowers, Grimm, Vick, Royal, Tapp, et al had that sent us to Miami every New Year's Day.
VT Football....
Feel bad for the seniors graduating this year (class of 2016). First class that have not seen VT at the ACC Championship game since we joined the conference.
Heck, I think it's the first class in a very long time who haven't seen VT at some sort of BCS bowl.
I don't. They are the ones who haven't performed.
I actually meant more from the student perspective, like the whole class of 2016 haha. Not football related.
What a joke this team has become. Gonna take a few years and some serious changes (sorry Frank) to turn this around. Ugghhhh.... Saturdays in fall are not fun anymore.
Im watching the UF vs LSU game...just watched the kicker run a fake field goal in for a score...Death Valley is rocking. This, my friends, is what college football should look like.
The speed, size, and athleticism in this UF/LSU is absolutely ridiculous all over.
In terms of talent, we are now the Troy or W Michigan to the LSU or Florida. It's drastic the disparity.
I'm kind of numb at this point, after two years of mediocrity. At least Logan was fun to watch. Motley and Brewer are just not doing it for me. I've said it before and I'll say it again: love them both, but they just don't have that factor that Tyrod or Randall had to make up for the times when they weren't playing their best.
I'll continue to attend/watch games as VT football is the only sport I truly care about, but I'm really hoping that Lawson becomes a QB worth getting excited over next year. I'd be even more excited if Jackson is so good that he leapfrogs everyone, although I'm not expecting that.
I'm just gonna go ahead and post this after each loss
Btw, that entire 3rd qtr was just the GOOOOOD shit I needed to take (:
Today, I discovered how badly kidney stones hurt..... and I don't even have kidney stones....
Unfortunately, the pain you're feeling is probably more in your chest or head...
We were beaten by a better team today. Not a demonstrably better team but a slightly better team that we match up to poorly. We don't stretch the field much to exploit their secondary. We can't beat very good QBs. Our team has areas of improvement this year. Pass protection seems improved. New faces on defense show promise
. I don't get the feeling that all of the coaches are forming a cohesive team. Our special teams coach has under performed for a few years now. Lefty seems out on his own. I don't care if Shane is a good or poor coach, he should not be working here. Bud seems totally engrossed in the performance of his defense. I would prefer a little less tunnel vission and more we need our team to win attitude. I am also done with the "3 or 4 plays that define every game" excuse. How about we strive to play a game that can overcome the 4 or 5 plays that we know will not go our way each week. So that is my rambling rant. I did not expect anything other than what I saw today. I love this team and these players. I think we can get better this year. I think the players are pushing to improve. Every player hasl my enduring support. I read here that only Frank and Bud have contracts beyond next July. If we are not going to clean house next year this seems like a poor way to motivate your staff. Frank and Whit need to make the call now. Will I stay or will I go is a great song and a shitty way to win football games. And that is all I have to say about that
I'm not sure what everyone is freaking out about. We are going to beat Duke next weekend...... And then lose to BC.
Embrace the madness!
So I decided to take a couple hours before posting anything, but here is what I think...
After the ECU and Pitt game, I was upset, but I looked towards the next game. I had faith in the coaching to bring the team together and fix the mistakes that doomed us the previous game. After this game, I don't have that feeling. I'm not sure why, but I have no desire to go to the Duke game next week. I will be there, but I have no expectations of us winning anymore.
I will continue to be a Hokie fan. I will always be a Hokie fan. I believe that one day it will pay off to tough it out through the tough years (right now). But I don't have faith anymore. And that SUCKS.
Ya'll need to chill out...we lost a close game to a Miami team that beat us last year 30-6. A lot of ifs and whats could be said...but I won't bitch and moan about anything from this game. The kids played hard and Miami is always our toughest game year in and year out. You could tell al lot of our players who come from the state of FL played with a chip on their shoulder today and we damn near won the game. I wish a few things went differently but shit happens vs Miami:
Skip to 2:19:34 for the real kick in the nuts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg-pNEhwxwE
Responding to myself:
"You're living in the past, Sammy. Come on, me and the woodland fairies, we're living in the here and now. And we're feeling so free. Come on, join us."
You sound like one of the old Blacksburg natives that calls into the Frank Beamer radio show and just tells him he's the bees knees.
We damn near won the game right up until we lost by two scores!
Miami has been nothing for years. If they are our toughest game that does not reflect well on the direction of this program. Nor should it, we are declining and thinking otherwise does not make it any less true.
Play Lawson... if we are going to make freshmen mistakes then let it be him. Time for Beamer to enjoy more golf. TMac is a beast...feed him. Throw the ball to Ford.
It makes no sense to play Lawson before he's ready.
Yeah it does because Motley and Brewer clearly aren't ready either
No more excuses.
No more moral victories.
A win is a win, and a loss is a loss.
We can't keep making excuses. There needs to be change. There is no way we even win the ACC (the real season). We maybe make the "not so shitty cause we have a good fan base" bowl. There is no reason to keep the current regime. Everyone says the magical year for Beamer is 2016. If that is true, that's only one more year. We won't win a National Championship, Beamer has already made it clear that it's not his goal to do so. He leaves after that year, we have only prolonged rebuilding one more year.
I have not have a good season of football since I've started at Tech. I consider myself a pretty loyal and educated fan. One of the only things that help me get through the week is the hope of watching VT Football not drop a turd on the field. I always get a false sense of hope, to only be let down. I'm tired of being let down. I will continue to watch Tech play, I'll go to every home game I can, I'll continue to be let down. I just hope WB wises up and doesn't play nice, like Shane did for so long, and let FB retire with grace. I'll stand by this even if we win out, somehow win the ACC, and somehow win a BCS bowl. We need change, not only for the team but for the fan base. A change will at least give a new generation hope for 1-3 years, hopefully longer. I need some hope.
The option play with Motley and McMillian was essentially unstoppable. Way to only call it twice. I just do not understand why when plays work well they do not go back to them.
YES! Thank you!
I thought we ran it a third time and the Miami D blew up Motley before he could pitch.
my opinion on brad kaaya and VT football right now
When we beat OSU at the beginning of last season, I walked out of that palace of whiners silently and confidently. I thought about our National Championship trophycase and how somebody should go dust it off for the pictures.
I had no idea walking to the car that the trophycase ceased to exist, and it had been that way since 2012. I only found out about the trophycase a couple of weeks ago.
I'd never give that win back. I live in Ohio and these fans can be unbearable. With a trophycase, that win is awesome and inspiring. The fact that the trophycase was gone gives me a very different perspective on that night. Two completely differenct trajectories are implied and a win like that looks more like a sad flame at the end of the night than a new fire starting.
Oh well. "Ashes to ashes, right?". Hopefully somebody finds this impressive pile of embers and does something productive with them.
My thoughts:
1) It sucks we lost. I want us to win every game by 50, get a national championship, and go down as the greatest team to ever play (and do it every year). I'm a fan, of course that's what I want.
2) There's more in life than VT football, and I don't let bad games or bad seasons ruin my week, or even my Saturday. They lost, they're not that good, oh well. The sun is still shining, I still have my friends, my family, and my health, and it's a waste of time to be unhappy. Does this make me a "bad fan"? Hardly, I will root just as hard as anyone else out there.
3) Unfortunately (and yes, unfortunately, because I think he is a great person), Frank no longer has it in him to be a great football coach, and I believe he will be gone at the end of this year. So there's no point in worrying about him getting fired or not, because it's not happening mid-season, and I think it is happening at the end of the year.
4) Even so, I will still hope like heck they win every remaining game this year, because I'm a Hokie and doing any less would just feel wrong.
Go Hokies!
I think the process VT fans are going through is normal, and necessary in order to get Whit and Frank to where they need to be in order to do the right thing.
I hope Whit is smart and observant enough to be able to recognize things even without fans screaming constantly about it.
I hate to continually pile on Frank, and I am not here to incite inter-fan arguments. But can any of the Frank supporters please explain to me why he should be our coach next season? All I need is one good reason.
I don't know but I think the majority of the community here has somewhat shifted in one way or another. Just read the comments.
I could be wrong but their biggest argument is this:
Thats not a very good reason.
The problem now is, this game was set up to be a marquee game. A bright shining moment for college football and a showcase for Tech and UT. Now it has quite probably been reduced to being the answer to a bar bet trivia question 20 years from now, one which many will lose trying to remember who played in the game besides Tennessee. Not a fantastic way for Frank to end his career.
On a lighter note, my car Bluetooth automatically plays whatever media is open on my phone (music, podcast, etc.). It kind of drives me nuts and don't know how to make it stop without turning off Bluetooth altogether.
In any case, was feeling real depressio today after the game. Had been reading through this thread on my phone, then finally decided to get my ass of the couch and take the dog to the park. Jumped into the car and suddenly Sunshine, Lollipops, and Rainbows started blasting in my car.
A well needed laugh.
That's funny! Mine does the same thing and it drives me crazy too.
I hate it when people play the "what if we did this?" or "If only we did/didn't do that!" game. Every team can play that game. It is what it is. Mistakes are always going to happen but responsibility and accountability starts at the top/the coaches. If you don't have both of those, you will never have a successful team.
We were told this was the year. It's not. This team isn't good. It's not going to magically get better. It's that simple.
Anyone see Spurrier on Gameday? I know it's not the same situation, but my respect for him increased. He was so resolved in his decision to hang it up. It's one thing to be talented. It's another to have that kind of self-reflection.
Spurrier's a guy who cannot stand to lose. Many have criticized him for quitting on his team, which criticism I do understand. But, I also somewhat admire his assessment of the situation and the fact he refuses to go into the "downward spiral" we saw at the end of Bowden's and Paterno's career.
I love Coach Beamer and what he has done for VT. But, he is in denial. The game passed him by years ago, and we've been in the downward spiral now for years. I fear he's going to leave the program in the shape he found it.
VT won 10 games the year before Beamer started.
They were also on probation for NCAA vio infractions.
Yes, but to claim that VT didn't have football before Beamer isn't exactly right.
Dooley may have cut some corners, but he took VT to a few bowls, and that was before there were 38 of them.
I think everyone (including you) know exactly what I'm referring to here. I grew up in Cburg in the 70s and 80s going to VT games. Everyone from that era knows that VT was completely irrelevant nationally.
Just as we have been since 2011.
VT wasn't a terrible team when Beamer took over.
Beamer did some good things, but he had something to work with. Bill Dooley had done some building himself, though he may have cut a few too many corners, which is one of the reasons they went with Beamer. One great thing about Beamer was that he did it the right way.
What are you talking about? Dooley had the most ridiculous offensive schemes EVER. Also, CFB basically had to start and build from scratch when he started.
Dooley took VT to three bowls, and VT was occasionally ranked in the top 25 during those years. That was back when going to a bowl wasn't a given if you went 6-6.
You can argue with his methods, as there were some clouds of NCAA investigation, but the cupboard wasn't completely bare when Beamer arrived.
Wasn't saying it was "completely bare", but it was (for all intents and purpose) extensively thin. I'm not saying Beamer had to full on rebuild the program, but he kinda had to start from scratch from the mess Dooley left. Tech may have gone to 3 bowls and occasionally been ranked in the top 25, but that is completely and statistically dwarfed in comparison to Beamer. Sorry, but Beamer>Dooley.
I agree that Beamer has been the most successful football coach in VT history. He got VT to a national championship game.
But I think it's wrong not to acknowledge that in 9 seasons under Dooley, 7 of those teams had winning records, VT went to three bowls, and Bruce Smith was the number one draft pick. The year before Beamer took over, VT won 10 games.
VT had put some of the key ingredients in place before Beamer got there, and the program was starting to get noticed.
Granted. And I feel it is wrong and incorrect to just play oblivious to the NCAA vios left behind by Dooley and his staff. I guess we're just gonna have to partially agree to disagree in regards to the transition from Dooley to Beams. Curious, what "key ingredients" do you feel were in place when Beamer arrived??
Facilities (Lane Stadium, built in the 1960's, was expanded to a capacity of 52,000 in the 1980's), fan support (VT had fans even in the 1980's), a growing profile (VT made the top 25 a few times in the 1980's, and went to 3 bowls under Dooley), a good size university with solid academics, football history and tradition.
VT has a long history with football. If you want to go WAY back, look at the history of the Southern Conference. Virginia Tech was in the original Southern Conference, which is where the SEC and ACC originated. It is fitting that VT eventually made it back into the ACC.
The conference was formed on February 25, 1921... ...Southern Conference charter members were Alabama, Auburn, Clemson, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, Maryland, Mississippi State, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Tennessee, Virginia, Virginia Tech, and Washington & Lee. In 1922, six more universities – Florida, LSU, Mississippi, South Carolina, Tulane, and Vanderbilt joined the conference.
I consider those all to be key ingredients, and all of those were in place before Beamer arrived.
Don't misunderstand me. Beamer took the program to new heights, and he truly did something unique and special. He increased the value of the brand, and I'm not sure anyone else could have done that in so short a time. I'm just saying he had some good clay to work with, and a lot of support from the university.
And as we found out in another thread, if the VT administration hadn't clucked things up in the 1930's, VT might have been in either one of those conferences from the beginning.
I dunno, man. I endured the last four of those years. It sucked. Sitting in the middle of the MV drumline, we knew our offensive scheme (sic) was "up the middle, up the middle, up the middle, punt." Yes, those years were 9-2, 8-4, 6-5, and 10-1-1. But look harder at those schedules (the 1983-86 seasons), and look at the names on those schedules through a mid-80s prism. Cincinnati. VMI (twice). William & Mary. Duke. (Not Spurrier Duke; shitty, SHITTY Duke.) etc. etc.
As to the cupboard? If it was so outstanding after Dooley's era and infractions, remember we were 2-9 the next year.
Other than us, who was noticing us? I love VT, don't get me wrong, but we could barely get mentioned in the DC market, which is pretty tough, considering the number of grads from the surrounding counties in both states. And that was before the interwebz could fill the gap.
I just don't remember that period being as rosy as all that. Even normalizing for my cynical nature.