ESPN staff writer Travis Haney mentioned Arizona head coach Rich Rodriguez's name in conjunction with the vacant head coach position at South Carolina, and the currently occupied one at Virginia Tech.
The same extends to Virginia Tech, where Rodriguez could be in play if Frank Beamer were to retire. Additionally, Rodriguez has a connection there: Virginia Tech athletic director Whit Babcock was on the administrative staff at West Virginia when Rodriguez coached there.
Haney's platform and limited information adds an iota of credibility to a rumor that's echoed about tailgates encompassing Lane Stadium—former West Virginia head coach Rich Rodriguez might be Frank Beamer's successor at Virginia Tech. In addition to Babcock's and Rodriguez's well-documented professional relationship (hey, did you know they also played pickup basketball together?), Haney also cites Rodriguez would like to live closer to his native West Virginia. Both statements combine to corroborate the information produced by the Blacksburg rumor mill. More interesting, at least to me, are Haney's assertions that Rodriguez would like to coach at a more traditional football school, and his unconventional stock option based annuity, which doesn't fully vest in the near future, won't keep him locked to the Wildcats.
[Coaches who know Rodriguez] think he would like to again coach at a school where football is a bigger deal.
From talking to those who know Rodriguez, my sense is that [the annuity payout] would not be a factor in deciding whether to interview or take a job on the East Coast.
A few financial notes: According to USA TODAY, Arizona will pay Rodriguez $2,878,844 for coaching in 2015. That's in the same ballpark as the $2,535,925 Virginia Tech will foot to Frank Beamer. Also, if Rodriguez terminates his contract prior to January 16, 2016, he owes Arizona $500,000 (unless he takes a job at WVU, then it's bumped to $1,000,000).
In August of 2014, Babcock extended Beamer's contract through January 1, 2019. Although, Babcock and Beamer issued a joint statement after Tech's 7-6 campaign last season in which both stated they have "higher expectations" for the Hokies' program.
Comments
Not too big of a deal, but in regards to him leaving the west coast, Arizona and Rich Rod filed a complaint yesterday with the Pac 12 about late kickoff times
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/10/19/arizona-rich-rodrigu...
I know a lot of Hokie Nation really despises him, but I think it would be a great hire.
WHY!!!!
I agree with the above. I think he is a great offensive mind. I know he can come off as a jerk, but other than him and maybe Morris can an outsider keep Foster? I would love for him to come in and keep Foster & Co. and run roughshod over the Coastal.
Him being a jerk , the NCAA cloud that follows him and the Michigan players who didn't like his culture all say he has no place at VT.
Michigan is nothing like Virginia Tech
And? A coach who makes players feel like there is no family within the organization doesn't need to be at VT, it's that simple for me.
Because the mentality that protected Stiney as OC, and let him hire is DB coach son as the RB coach is exactly what we want to hold over right?
The last thing VT has to accomplish as a program is a Natty. the coaches that do that are not all together warm comforting guys, Saban, Meyer, and even Miles are NOT as warm as Frank is, its a team not a family at the end of the day, and in some ways that means less, in some more, but it is different obviously.
But having a much more rigid system where everyone sees their place they inspire just as much loyalty and drive.
Let me ask you this is winning the only thing that matters to you about the football program?
Winning is not the only thing that matters, but it is absolutely the most important thing. The fact of the matter is winning equals money in todays college sports. Like it or not, we currently are leaving a lot of money on the table with the past three + years with very mediocre football play. Whit is going to do what is best for not only the football program, but more importantly the athletic department's bottom line. I'm not saying RichRod is or is not the best man for the job, however he has proven to be a winner (aka money maker). #Money
YYYYEEEESSSS. I lived through the 60s, 70s and 80s....
"A coach who makes players feel like there is no family within the organization"
I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you, but do you have any quotes from former players of RR that say this about him?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3314282
Juatin Boren left M and went to anOSU where he was a great lineman.
So one guy who didn't get along with the new coaching staff. Big deal. No coach is going to please everyone, especially when it comes to players they didn't recruit. There will be turnover with any coaching regime change.
He wasn't the only one to cite the "family part of the team" when leaving. It's one thing to not agree about playing time, new scheme but for multiple people to cite family sends up red flags, add in how he fled the cousins it's just something wrong with him.
So he doesn't promote a family atmosphere. At least not what those players expected out of a family atmosphere. Big deal.
Again, goes right back to a coach not being able to please everyone, especially players he didn't recruit.
That's also just their side of the story. "Family Atmosphere" can also equate to "being coddled" Quite possibly those players were a little shocked at being held accountable by a brash new coach whose mission it was to shake the dead leaves off the tree and revamp the football program and didn't bother sugar coating things like the previous HC. They were used to being treated like "family" and RR treated them like scholarship athletes at BCS football program. But that's not really that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. Again, any new coach isn't going to please all the existing players and some will be unhappy enough to transfer.
And then as a fan, the football program being a big family atmosphere isn't a huge priority to me. It's Beamer's style, and while it's worked great for him over the years, our next coach might have a different approach, whether it's Rodriguez or someone else.
That same kid left and went to anOSU and then to the NFL I don't think his issue was with "coddling"
Buzz Williams drove off half the scholarship players when he joined VT and no one is upset about his atmosphere.
What was the culture before he came? What did those players cite as reasons for leaving? Does buzz have the stench of the NCAA right behind him? Did he flee a school (WVU) right before the NCAA tourney? Did he get fired from a Second school after yet a 2nd "falling out" with the atheltic dept? To compare Buzz and Rich Rod is to ignore all the red flags for the hope of a few wins.
The NCAA is not after him. He didn't flee WVU, he got an offer to coach Michigan, which anyone would be stupid to turn down.
The vitriol of RichRod is now reaching the 'fabrication' stage
So Rich Rod turned down Alabama job got an extension at WVU because it just isn't a good job? The issues the atheltic dept had with him at WVU is well documented. The Michigan job came at the right time for him to leave his players and school right before a BCS game and he jumped ship. You also can't deny that RR hasn't had rumors of the NCAA sniffing around.
Edit: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5081772 NCAA looking at his time at WVU AND Michigan.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3157227
Any coach his gives his players a TEN minute meeting to tell them he is leaving town is an ahole.
In 2006, WVU was a better job than Alabama.
But less than a year later he didn't even finish out the season with them?
At no time in history was the WVU job better than the Alabama job.
You have a point there.
yea I dont know about that...
Seems absurd now, but it was the case back then....
The offer he got from Bama was 6 years $12M, which WVU came essentially matched to keep him in town. When he got to Michigan, they upped that to $2.5M per year. Alabama, when they realized that money more than anything probably embarrassed them with RichRod, then said the hell with it and signed Saban for $4M per year in 2007. RR turning them down probably more than anything caused them to re-evaluate what they wanted to be and allowed them to quickly reboot their program like they did.
I still don't really agree with that. RR embarrassing them or not, 2006 bama football program had a better program in all aspects to offer than WVU then. Better fan base, more money, better recruiting grounds, better national scene, better conference. There is not much that you could say that that was better than alabama outside of records at the time
So RichRod is responsible for Bama becoming what they have been for the past few years?? I really don't like him now.
"Any coach his gives his players a TEN minute meeting to tell them he is leaving town is an ahole."
So what is the limit on this? Would it be okay if he gave them FIFTEEN or TWENTY minutes? What about an hour? In reality, a ten minute meeting is more than a lot of coaches have given when they have left for other jobs.
Were you in that ten minute meeting? Were they crying and hugging with thank yous and well-wishes or was it an epic screaming match of hatred and name-calling? I think what was said and by whom (both Rich Rod and the players) is much more important than the duration of that meeting.
I think the limit on this is what Randy Edsall did when he called from his jet out of town.
Meeting with the team in person is what matters, and RichRod did that.
I believe Todd Graham sent a text when he left PITT for ASU.
It said something along the lines of 'Gone to Tempe. God bless.' The players didn't know if he was on vacation or recruiting or what. That was cowardly. Keep your blessings to yourself coach.
Isn't one of the reasons that Buzz left Marquette the fact that his AD fired one of his assistant coaches for breaking NCAA rules and Buzz wanted to keep him? Buzz's potential NCAA concerns are a lot more recent than Rich Rod's so that is a valid comparison.
As Alum pointed out, he didn't "flee" WVU. He took what looked like the job opportunity of a lifetime. I am sure you never left a job for one that you considered to be better. The only "falling out" with the athletic department was at Michigan, because he wanted to do things his way, not the same way that Carr did and a lot of Michigan people didn't want him in the first place. The only "falling out" with WVU was from him leaving. It's one thing to ignore red flags. It is another to start planting additional red flags where none exist.
You just don't like Rich Rod. That is okay. You do not need to go overboard and make stuff up to justify it.
Not trying to beleaguer this point, I get that you're not a Rich Rod fan (for the record neither am I), my only point is that extrapolating a few sensationalized ESPN and twitter reports don't make us experts on Rich Rod. He's never been hit with any sanctions, never had any evidence of mistreating players (other than some rants from a couple of jaded ex-players which I don't put much stock in, this is common with coaching changes), and is responsible for recruiting the talent that Brady Hoke had success with before he torpedoed that program into the ground. In general one side of the hokie fan base puts wayyyy too much stock into Richie actually seeking/getting the VT job while the other completely hates him for being a selfish asshole who is here to ruin our student athletes. I see no evidence of either being the truth. That is all. Sorry for the run-on sentences. Go Hokies.
Yup. His younger brother now start at tOSU and his dad went to TTUN. Personally, people wanted a better version of Carr and when they didn't get it he was toast.
wonder what part of the family someone like joel caleb feels like right now. I saw him after the duke loss walking up the tunnel no part of him seemed like a happy man in a happy family. I feels for the dude. he wanted to be part of the family just to be bounced from uncle to uncle never finding anyone who really wanted him.
There is going to be that brotherhood within the players no matter what, thats how football/sports are. I'm sure most recruits would take NC's and playoff appearances over a "family feeling" with the coaches any day of the week
VT football actually has quite a few similarities to Michigan football pre-RichRod...
Hiring RichRod would be a high risk-high reward type of gamble, IMO.
How so?
I was talking broader than just football though. On many levels, we are nothing like Michigan.
Michigan is a peer institution so obviously Virginia Tech sees some similarities.
I think a down-vote from Michigan players and fans is an endorsement in my eyes
Those same fans upvoted Brady Hoke at the beginning of his tenure, and that clearly worked out well right?
Edit: Completely misread the comment
Could it be because he wasn't a "Michigan" guy?
Just curious, what makes you think Rich Rod could keep Foster?
I mean only an established coach with an offensive mindset could be thought as NOT a slap in the face to Foster. He is the only realistic candidate that comes to mind.
What about Fuente?
I'd say one if the two USCs get him. Herman to the other, although they do have a head to head coming up.
Rachel McAdams in The Notebook > any Emma Watson
While both are very attractive I must whole heartedly disagree.
At this moment (1:45 AM CST 10/21/15) my ranking would be Emma Watson> Jennifer Lawrence > Rachel McAdams = Taylor Swift.
But ask me later today and it will most certainly change.
Edit: Roughly 24 hours later I need to update my rankings. Natalie Dormer>Emma Watson=Emilia Clarke>Jennifer Lawrence>Rachel McAdams=Taylor Swift.
I might be in the minority, but I do not find Jennifer Lawrence that attractive at all.
Emma Watson = Rachel McAdams = Taylor Swift > Jennifer Lawrence.
I really don't see kicking any of them out of bed.
Maybe just alternate. Or pick any of them. It's all good.
True. Beggers can't be choosers!
You're dead to me.
I guess that would make me....The Walking Dead?
HEEYOOO!
No... We. Are. The. Walking. Dead.
Well played sir. Well played.
They way I see RichRod is that he's the guy that can consistently get the program back to a 8-9 win level, with a very occasional 10/11-win season. That's where he's going to plateau because he has not demonstrated that he can consistently secure the top tier talent necessary to take the next step. He certainly finds the guys for his system but the overall caliber of recruit barely moved during his time in Arizona.
I'm not saying that's the worse place to be, but I would personally prefer to roll the dice a little bit and land a top tier recruiter like Herman or Fleck so we have the possibility of breaking in to that very upper tier. Yeah, you could end up with Mike London, but you could also end up with Dabo Swinney.
I would gladly take 8-9 wins a year and the occasional 10-11 win season.
Generally speaking, I want someone that brings it like Dabo does, and can bring in the big time recruits (while doing it cleanly - no Rick Petino type shit going on).
Not sure if Rich Rod fits that bill.
I'm not sure why you see an 8-9 win level. When his offense is installed, he gets 10+ win seasons - see West Va and Arizona.
Arizona:
'12: 7-6
'13: 8-5
'14: 9-5
'15: 5-2 (doesn't look like Arizona will get to 10 this year)
FTFY
Ugh.
Fixed that for both of you
http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa-12/pac-10/2012-arizona-wildcats-football...
RichRod has always insisted on his terrible defensive scheme as well. On top of that, if Arizona's talent level hasn't increased in his time in Arizona, but their record has, then I think that speaks strongly to his skills as a coach.
Or that the other teams in the PAC have gotten worse.
It's possible. I think Utah, UCLA, and AzSt have all improved in the last three years, and all of those are in the South division. USCw has stayed relatively constant with their worst season in the last three being in 2012. Colorado is more like LOLBoulder though.
I worry about the 3-3-5 stack defense coming to Blacksburg. If he retains Foster or brings in another legit DC who runs their own system then I'd be OK with it.
The only thing I can say I'd like about this would be just how much it would needle the Cousins.
I wouldn't say that's the only thing to like, but it is a helluva thing to like about it for sure.
Yes. Basketball and football.
Also like to throw/put a name in the Hat.. PJ Fleck and Buzz Williams seem to be very very good friends, a couple pictures on Instagram and twitter of them. PJ Fleck is also a big supporter of Buzz's Bunch..
Yeah its just Buzz being friends with PJ Fleck but I see a ton of similarities between the two and since Buzz was good a fit for VT and Whit then you would have to think PJ Fleck could also fit.
I would like to put out there 2 articles I recently found about PJ Fleck for everyone who is not aware of the person/HC style. These were 2 of the first few articles so I did not cherry pick them to find the best ones just did a quick search
PJ Fleck 1
PJ Fleck 2
EDIT- Included Resume/ Coaching Career stuff below
2006- Grad Assistant at OSU TE's & Special teams
2007-09- WR Coach NIU & Recruiting Coordinator
2010-11 WR Coach Rutgers
2012- Hired as NIU Offensive Coordinator left before getting there for Tampa Bay Buccaneers WR Coach
2013-current Western Michigan HC
Record as HC
2013 1–11 1–7 T–5th (West)
2014 8–5 6–2 3rd (West) L 24-38 vs Air Force at Famous Idaho Potato
2015 3–3 2–0 (West) 3 losses so far are Michigan Sate, OSU and Georgia Southern
2015 recruiting class was ranked 71st 1st in MAC
2016 incoming recruiting class is ranked 51st, 1st in MAC. 24 commits so far with 15 3*'s
ugh not hating on PJ but I really am not a fan of that row row your boat thing and I hope that wouldn't come along with him. I don't mind the idea behind what it stands for though I will add.
Agree. I honestly don't know much about him, but the row your boat thing is super dumb.
Fleck isn't the right fit for VT at the moment. Too young, too inexperienced.
I don't know if I would say inexperienced.. just unknown to a lot of people
I added his resume above as well think that will help
I love his energy, but he probably needs to take another step before getting to a p5 contender. He would be a good fit in the AAC next year, or a p5 school who needs to take a risk (Illinois, Purdue, Iowa St).
good points. Just thinking with all the schools needing a HC this year he probably will get snatched up by a decent P5 school.
Will be interesting to see who we get linked with when the time comes.
Let us get Fuente or Herman and Fleck can replace them at Memphis or Houston.
This.
We need a home run hire. Can't afford to take a chance on Mr. Fleck.
Great reads. His borderline nonsense sloganeering game is top-notch. Some really good lines in there. "Tonight is the night we get on our high horse, and we march the streets of Sparta to prove that our perceptions are deceptions," I'm a sucker for mixed metaphors that just sound cool.
Also, this sounded familiar
Still doesn't have that signature win for a lower league coach
Agreed but signature wins can't happen without good recruiting classes a good staff and most the time some luck. They played Mich St & OSU pretty well earlier this year.
He got a 1-11 team to go 8-5 in 1 year and has improved their recruiting rank about 19 or so spots in 1 year as well.
The guy is doing a whole lot right and not a whole lot wrong at the moment. The results will follow if he can continue down the path he's already created.
But he was responsible for that 1-11 team. Its not like 1-11 was from his predecessor. He brought a 4-8 team to 1-11.
Sustained success comes from coaching with recruiting, but hes still 0-7 against P5 teams. An "up and coming" coach that is worthy of a higher end P5 job should be able to snag one of those with superior coaching for a single game
Still impressive he was able to get a team to buy into a system that quickly.
Give him a P5 roster and assistant coaches and a better recruiting area and he probably has a very successful coaching career at said school.
The good thing is it seems like there's more coaches ready to take the next step into a P5 job than there are P5 jobs available. So I'm sure we will get a good one.
He can do offense. I would hope he would keep his hands off the defense though.
I would like to think, and this may be a pipe dream, that the new HC (especially if it were Rich Rod) would seriously consider keeping the current defensive staff. This seems like a win win as they have historically been one of the best in the nation.
The new HC could take a few/couple of years recruit and get a new system in place while the D could continue business as normal (and by normal I do mean upgrading intensity from this season). Remember, for a loooong time Bud's D has carried this team and I think they could do it again with an overhaul on offense.
I agree we should do everything we can to retain Foster and his staff, but do you think Bud would want to stay if he was passed over as the HC. I suspect a lot top tier programs would come after Foster during the limbo period of a new HC picking his staff. Not sure he would have a reason to pass up a top 10 team with top 10 $$, if VT were to go in another direction up top.
If Foster isn't the next HC, he ain't staying. No way a highly competitive guy such as himself eats his pride like that.
I COMPLETELY disagree. I don't think Bud Foster is in a "I'm next or bust" mode. I think there will be a lot of factors that come into play regarding whether or not he has a future at VT post-Frank Beamer, and many of them won't be of his decision. For instance, I think (and personally hope) that Whit is looking above the level of Bud Foster for a replacement HC. As much as I love Bud as our DC, I still think he would need to prove his HCing ability at another smaller school before he should be given the keys to a Power 5 school. There are also lots of people who feel or somehow know that he's not a fan of recruiting, or just isn't a very good one. I want Frank's replacement to be dynamite recruiter who will pull in kids that we probably shouldn't be able to get. If Whit get an outside hire, what are the chances that the new guy will be OK adopting Bud as their DC? We tend to think any HC would want someone like Bud with the track record he has, but we're also talking about bringing in a guy who has to establish his culture and provide results. If he doesn't entirely feel comfortable that Bud can & will do that, I think he'd be smart to make that a non-option.
But as far as the things I have heard from those close to Bud, I am not so sure he's chomping at the bit to be a HC. All signs point that he is very happy being a DC, loves his job and what he does, loves the area and the homes he has for his family, and probably doesn't want that "upper-level management" that comes with being a HC.
I could be wrong about this, so don't get me wrong. But nothing I have heard or read about has ever pointed towards Bud being a guy who is thinking that, after Frank, it's gotta be him or he's gone.
I wouldn't mind seeing Torrian Gray promoted to DC. He's done a great job here and can recruit at a level Bud Foster can't. Lots of upside there.
As long as he remembers to say hello.
Totally depends on Bud's relationship/respect level for the new HC hire
Is this really in question? It seems to be a given that our next HC, if it's not Bud, will be an offensive-minded guy. As such, he's not likely to be entrenched in his own defensive philosophy and feel the need to clean house on the defense. He'll want to fill his staff with the best coaches he can attract and afford. Personally, I don't think that anyone who thinks he can do better than Bud & Company is remotely qualified for a power-five head coaching job. The bigger question, to me (and I hope Whit is considering this as well), is whether or not Bud wants to work for whoever is chosen to replace Frank. If the next head coach does not have Foster's approval, (assuming that Bud wants to continue at VT for any coach not named Frank Beamer or Bud Foster), then he had better be damned good.
I don't think it is as clean cut as saying Bud is the best DC for the job. There is a lot of politics to deal with as well. A new HC will want to come in and change the culture, which is tough to do when 4-5 of the coaches in the room have been there a long time. I think if we had ended this thing on a high note, there would be less culture to change and holding on to Bud would be more of a priority. Now, since we need a full purge, losing Bud may just be the cost of business. He may not want to stay anyway, but I would understand a new coach wanting to have a little residual staff as possible.
Can you name a better one? Is there anyone better for the job that would leave their current situation for anything less than SEC money or a head coaching gig?
There's a reasonable argument to be made for needing a culture change in the VT locker room, but do you really think that Foster or his assistants are responsible for any deficiencies in this area? There are only two scenarios I can imagine where keeping the defensive staff largely intact would hurt the culture: if there's resentment about Frank being (hypothetically) forced out/fired, or if there's resentment that Foster didn't get the promotion.
...which are two very likely scenarios if you keep the defensive staff.
Just keep in mind new coaches will "run off" about 10-12 players. If those guys are defensive players, and they've been doing things the right way for Foster's group and now a new HC wants them gone, that sends a weird message. That could create a lot of conflict and confusion of allegiance.
Just from a defensive coaches standpoint, I hope we keep our staff. But I would allow for a new HC to make that determination on their own. Standard protocol when turning over leadership, give the leader the ability to keep the staff they want and release what they want....even if you are doing so due to clearing conflict instead of performance based.
this might sound dumb but just a thought.. How many lower level HC's would be able to actually put together a good defensive staff together?
We have Bud and his staff already.. hire a HC with an offensive minded staff and you have yourself a pretty good coaching staff. Yeah there are obvious issues to deal with (feelings, would bud and company stay) but I think if I'm a HC the idea of Bud Foster defense sounds pretty good to me, unless I can come up with a better staff.
They're also relatively easy to mitigate. Don't fire Frank, and make sure that Bud has sufficient input into the selection process. I'm sure it's unusual to give a subordinate a say in replacing his boss, but given what Foster has done for and meant to this football program, I don't think it's unreasonable. The only uncontrolled variable in the equation now is just how much Foster wanted to be the head coach and whether or not his pride would allow him to continue on here after getting passed over.
My pause with Bud is the torching of his D's last several years by some very pedestrian running qb's. The numbers were listed recently and the # of 100+ games by qb's was staggering. The Miami game last year (w/o a running qb), ECU games, OSU this year... we've seen some real stinkers vs good competition lately. Now if its last luster recruiting creating the issues, that's one thing, if its his schemes its troubling. Yeah he's good, but not sure he's as great as most of us want to think.
I'm no French (and don't even play one on TV) but I think our lack of linebacker play has been the primary culprit here, and that has been due to lackluster recruiting at the position, with a little bit of bad injury luck thrown in for good measure. It's less clear to me, however, what's been causing that. Is Bud's scheme just not attractive to top-tier LB's (diminishing their NFL potential), or are we just doing a poor job of identifying the right guys, or is negative recruiting from other coaches related to Frank's age and longevity working? I think we've all seen that Bud's schemes can be devastating with the right personnel.
Bud's scheme uses more uncommon reads and plays differently than most NFL defenses. He also emphasizes intelligence in his LBs to the point that alot of the more talented/less cerebral LBs don't want to bother. They'd learn alot of stuff that they'd probably have to forget the first day of training camp, and Bud doesn't let players who don't understand their job and the role it presents in the defense to play.
I wish he would emphasize athleticism in the LBs and just use the Rover/Safety to make the primary reads...that way the MLBs job is just to get the LBs aligned to the read correctly and relay the call...that's probably not gonna happen though...
It's a well known fact that Foster does not recruit much at all.
A new coach will want him to recruit. This could be a problem.
Getting a new staff may not be a bad thing after all.
Perhaps making Torrian DC might be the ticket.
I love Bud Foster and for years hoped he would be CFB's successor. if CFB would have stepped down 2 years ago and had a transition plan for Bud in place I would have been all for it. But I have changed my mind because CFB has stubbornly stayed too long holding onto the power and hoping Shane would be his successor. If Bud was promoted now, which in many ways he does deserve, it will be status quo with Shane and Stiney for sure and probably Lefty. We need new energy not just on the sidelines but on the recruiting trail and quite honestly with our overall philosophy.
I'm not sold that it would be status quo. I'm guessing as much as the next guy and it would be tough to fire people he's worked with for so long, but I don't think it's a given.
My only concern with Bud is recruiting. He hasn't set the world on fire recruiting-wise while being able to tout himself as one of the best DCs in the country, what will change as HC? He's still my guy though.
If Bud doesn't get the HC job, I have a hard time believing he doesn't bail and go to a big time program for a shot at a nat'l champion and huge payday. Imagine him at tOSU, Florida, UGA, uTN, Oregon, LSU, ND, etc. with those athletes. No reason for him to stick around while a young gun like PJ Fleck/Hermans or a slightly above avg coach like RichRod (107-64 record) tries to rebuild. Any incoming HC would be a damn fool not to keep Bud if Bud wanted to stay.
Hopefully TG would stay as DC if Bud does leave
I agree and wherever Bud goes will be my second favorite team unless it's UVa or WVa.
I doubt they have the payroll to be competitive in trying to get him.
I just remember when we beat #7 WVU in Blacksburg.... WVU punted and as our guy was catching the ball, WVU player speared him right in the chin... I mean just drilled him super dirty. The refs threw a flag, and Rich Rod was out there congratulating his player.
During those years he was there, WVU always played dirty. Nasty cheap shots, trying to twist Vick's ankle in the piles, it was more than just the fans. I really don't want that at VT.
ACC and Big East Coaches we've played against that I despise:
-Jeff Jagodzinski
-Paul Johnson
-Rich Rodriguez
Yoooooo, I haven't seen Jeff Jagodzinski's name in forever. I forgot all about him. Man, I wonder what the hell he's up to nowadays.
Hopefully flipping burgers. I hate Jagodzinski as much as 7LayersOfPlayers hates Matt Ryan.
Fuck Jeff Jagodzinski...and Matt Ryan.
I'v always wondered about how the Hokies who cheer for ATL on Sunday's feel about (FUCK)Matt Ryan.
It ravages my soul. On the bright side I can cheer losses and wins. Falcons win or Matt Ryan loses.
It took me about 4 years and making it to an NFC championship game to welcome Matt Ryan after that BC game in '07. And I'm more rooting for Julio Jones to catch the ball than whoever is throwing it.
By convention, the mention of Matt Ryan's name requires me to make the following declaration: Matt Ryan can choke on an entire box of dicks.
STILL LOLing at this...
Dude took one interview with an NFL team, didn't get the job and lost his job at BC and fell WAY down. Picked up as an OC with Tampa Bay, then got fired. Then he coached the Omaha Nighthawks, then took a job as OC at Georgia State. Wow.
He's at Georgia State? They're terrible. Cellar dwellers in the Sunbelt conference.
Omaha Nighthawks, quite a resume builder.
It's crazy how he was the hottest thing in coaching and now no one in major college football will give him a job. I'm not sure how he never got a semi-decent job after Boston College.
Jagodzinski to VT? He sounds like a real discount!
*ducks shoes*
Could swear I saw him on one of those dancing shows, but I'm getting older so my eyesight ain't as good as it used to be
Well, you are a Liverpool fan and they aren't helping your aging.
Totally kidding btw. I'm worried Klopp will make the relevant again.
I'm hoping that lightning strikes twice and VT can get a Klopp-like hire, whom I consider a home-run type of move. I'm over the moon with that appointment and hope Whit can pull something similar off in Blacksburg. Here's hoping.
I understand the last two, but what's the beef with Jagz? I don't remember him ever doing anything worthy of such ire.
IIRC, on an ESPN set before we played then #2 BC he said something close to he doesn't even know if Lane stadium has lights.
That was just because every other time he had been to blacksburg we played at noon.
His stupid dance. Remember?
Someone rang?
I was wondering where Joe Pesci went.
I get the relationship with Whit and he's had some good seasons but right now just personally it would be hard for me. Think RichRod has lost just about every big game. Also doesn't strike me as a guy that's big into recruiting. Would also really don't like the 3-3-5 stack defense, would have to be a precondition he keeps Bud.
His total compensation is at $3,238,844 according to USA today counting guaranteed bonuses and 1/8 of the vested stock. Think VT would have to pay upwards of that especially if USC-E is involved. Dabo Swinney who is the 2nd highest paid coach in the ACC is listed with total compensation of $3,305,200.
I saw the note in the USA TODAY database about the 1/8 stock, but I don't think he sees any of that money until 8 years after his new deal was approved in 2014.
A buddy of mine who has more time on his hands than I do actually did some real research on his contract.
According to him, there's a UA booster who is big in oil and RR has some investments related to oil futures but the earlier he leaves the better it is for UA as he'd get paid more if he were to stick around for a long time.
Here's a small blurb about it from SB Nation:
LINK
I researched it pretty fully as I was writing it, from the link in my original post:http://tucson.com/sports/college/wildcats/arizona-board-of-regents-to-vo....
With that still though I'd imagine his agent would point to that as being part of his current compensation if he was negotiating a new contract especially if he has USC-E as another suitor. I'd imagine it would be hard to get him for less than his current listed total compensation taking into account he would be forfeiting that money to leave for another school.
Sorry, wasn't trying to imply that you hadn't done the research - more that he'd done more research than I would care to do...and I'd missed your blurb about it because I skimmed the OP.
My bad.
How is that much different than what we've had for the past 29 years?
Not sure about him as a human being but his offense with a Bud Foster defense sounds like a potent combination if Rich Rod would be willing to keep the defensive staff in place. Can you imagine how riled up it would make WVU for the upcoming series with them? It would take the nastiness to a whole new level.
Too many character issues for my taste.
I, for one, welcome our new Mountaineer overlord.
I really don't see rich rod as an upgrade. I know the perception is his O is shiny but I just don't see this team being better with him at the helm. I would like to see us go after a Saban disciple or a kind of guy like that comes from a successful tree of coaches.
This still seems like the most logical move out there, both from VT's perspective and Rodriquez'. It may not be my first choice, but there is a good chance that the hot names of the moment (Herman, Fuente, in particular) may get picked up by bigger programs than VT. Richt may not even become available and he may take a year off if he does. As much as we like a lot of the nonP5 names out there like Rhule, Campbell, Morris, etc....it will be tough to hand over the keys to the $72M machine to someone with that level of experience.....unless you feel like they are truly the next big thing like Fuente and Herman seem to be.
If VT doesn't open up for RichRod, I expect he will be at UMD.
If RR doesn't like the football culture at Arizona, he won't like UMD's.
I just want a good recruiter that will also win us more than 9-10 games a year. Dont care if his name is Rich Rod or John Doe, black or white... I just want a winner. Who cares about the past.
To hell with 9-10 wins every year. If we aren't aiming to win 13-15 games a year, we're doing something wrong.
Can't really just not care about past NCAA violations.
Winning at any cost is really not winning.
Also said by every single team that got burned by the likes of Lane Kiffen.
I've said on other threads that I thought his unique contract would keep him in the PAC12 until it paid out in about seven more years, and have dismissed the thought that we could lure him with cash. I did not consider that there would be other factors that would weigh more heavily on his mind, however.
A few of the points the ESPN guy brings up in the quotes are highly relevant, though. If RichRod wanted to be closer to home, doesn't like the late kickoffs, and wants to be at a more traditional football school, then we would be improvements in all of those areas for him. He went off yesterday on a number of things regarding the PAC12.
I am on record as saying that I hated RichRod years ago, but if has a good relationship with Bud Foster then a lot of that goes out the window for me. It's oft cited up here in Big Ten country that his 3-3-5 defense was pretty much a guaranteed disaster in the Big Ten, but that he demonstrates significant prowess in creating offensive fireworks.
With RichRod's experience as the coach of WVU, Michigan, and Arizona, he could be the ideal candidate for us if he were to retain Bud Foster and keep his hands off the defense.
I've come around on RichRod since he left WVU. I loved to watch him flounder at UM, but started to root for him in the PAC12, where I thought his speedy offense and his defensive strategy could thrive. Arizona has finished 8-5, 8-5, and 10-4 in his first three seasons there, and are currently 5-2 (no major wins, losses to UCLA and Stanford, Washx2, USC, Utah, AZSt left).
IFF RichRod came here at a decent price and retained Bud while installing his offense, I'd be thrilled.
These quotes are really passionate, and I believe him when he says its about the welfare of the students. He's absolutely right, TV pushes these kids into tough situations.
That is in stark contrast to the NCAA violations that accrued under his watch at Michigan.
My thoughts on RR are well documented on this site, but out of curiosity, what makes you believe him about student welfare now when he lied about the hours he made his students practice at Michigan?
I think the NCAA violations are being blown out of proportion as well. Cheating obviously isn't okay. But his "major" violations at Michigan involved having his players practice for more hours than the NCAA allows. That isn't any where close to the egregious death penalty type stuff. And I dont think it makes him some lifelong, sleezy low-life. I'm sure he's since learned his lesson.
What Miami & UNC have done are NOT death penalty type stuff either, apparently.
Breaking a rule is breaking a rule. Small. Big. No matter. Compliance is compliance. This isn't Nascar, so the "if you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin" adage doesn't apply. The NCAA is a joke when it comes to actually handling wrongdoings, but they don't investigate nothing. There's a reason why Rich Rod has been on their radar previously.
I think the extra-practice hours thing is overblown. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but my feeling is that this type of violation seems tattle-tale-ish by someone at Michigan who was trying to sabotage the whole Rich-Rod experiment at UM.
That sounds about right.
I'm with the Horse on this. I don't mean to be negative; just a realist. But, I don't see us getting a Fuente or Herman, as they'll like go to a bigger program opening. And, I see South Carolina as a slightly more attractive opening than VT (because SEC), so they probably shoot a bit "higher" than Rich Rod.
For where our program is right now, I think Rich Rod is about as big a name as we can reasonably expect. And, I for one would prefer him over taking a gamble on one of the lesser known up and comers out there.
I see this as a pretty good fit. And agreed, it's an even better fit if he agrees to keep Bud.
So apparently Arizona doesn't get a bye week this season? Well, they technically get one, it is just the last week after they have played all of their games. What? Talk about getting screwed by your conference.
Doesn't like late kickoffs? We'll get him all the noon kickoffs he can handle.
Thanks for the add!
Can someone please put their little football hands onto some recruiting!
You're going to see little to no improvement in recruiting with a new coach.
Particularly if it happens this offseason and VTs new shiny toy is likely competing with new shiny toys nearby at UMd, UVA, and USC-E...and maybe even at UNC, UGa, WVU, Rutgers, Miami, etc.
The turmoil we will see this offseason will be shocking. Take what happened with Buzz Williams and multiple it times 8 (85 scholarship players to 13). We will lose valuable recruits. We will gain new recruits. We will "run off" some existing players. We will find success with some existing players that we hadn't seen before.
Our recruiting class this year probably won't improve or fall that much. Lose some, add some. But I expect a new VT will recruit better than we have been. Beamer basically was out of commission last recruiting season (ironically, much of Shane's recruiting problems may be due to his father's inability to close or just participate). I expect a new VT message and some excitement will improve recruiting next year....but not this year.
the results probably will not but that doesn't mean we do nothing but wait for the sky to fall
I want to ride one of these young up and comers to the top. Grab Morris, Herman, Fuente and grow with their success. If they bring us back to national relevance, pay them more to keep them, if they start doing really well, pay them even more. These young guys are very important to recruiting.
Have you considered what other programs we are competing with to get a Morris, Herman, Fuente? Sorry, but I don't see VT competing well with some of the other programs who currently have job openings. I hope I'm wrong, as I would love to court a Fuente or Herman to VT (not sure about Morris yet). But, I don't see it happening.
I'm well aware that they will be sought after. However, we do have things to offer and not everyone is hiring at the same time. Getting one of these coaches has a lot to do with timing.
Other than USC and USCe, what other P5 Head Coaching jobs are currently open that are more attractive than VT?
Am I missing any other openings?
Thus far, I think only UMd, USCe, and USCw are truly open. The rest may or may not be. But I'd think that there are a few other possibilities for openings as well, including Oregon, Arkansas, or maybe even Texas. And that doesn't count the openings that would likely be created when any of the known or possible openings are filled as teams shuffle coaches around.
Illinois and N. Texas, while both lower profile one is still a P5 job in a conference that makes ALOT of money.
My season tickets are going to be a casualty of real life once Coach Beamer's gone no matter what. And if Rich Rodriguez is our new coach, I won't be upset about it.
I'll always be a Hokie, but I remember his act at WVU, and I want no part of him representing us. He fit his alma mater perfectly. (The real measure of how repellent I found institutional Michigan's behavior toward him as relayed/defended in John U. Bacon's Three and Out is that it almost made me sympathize with him.)
Keep in mind Whit has connections at JMU... I could see Whit taking a shot at their head guy, and may I mention JMU is 7-0 currently
Withers has been awesome for JMU. He really seems to try and interact with the student base to get them excited and involved, and he's young. However ideally I would like him to have 1 more year, since Mike London went to a FCS school, took someone else's talent, and won a national title.
IIRC, Withers did a decent job as the interim coach at UNC. I thought he did well enough to earn the full time job. That was a pretty good Thursday night game against UNC in 2011.
Withers went 7-6 (3-5), T-4th in the Coastal, and lost in the Independence Bowl.
Let's hope he's the next Chip Kelly (in terms of results, not necessarily his scheme). I seem to recall he worked out OK moving up from the FCS level
TLDR Michigan never really wanted him. There was a clear culture clash there between how he wants to run the program and how they want it run. He's been very successful at Tulane, Clemson, WVU, and Arizona at putting together really good offenses and playing for titles (Just a year ago Arizona was in the Fiesta Bowl lest we forget). Dude has taken 2 P5 programs to multiple BCS bowls, he isn't a bad coach. For everyone yelling about prior associations, that's just letting your heart mess with your head. Whit needs to find the best coach available, and we know he wants someone with a proven track record. Not surprising he'd consider Rich Rod.
We all are bemoaning the lack of energy around the program and from the players. Rich Rod is different from Beamer Co, but honestly if you listen to any of his student athletes, once they get what he's about they love him. You don't hear a ton of negative stuff about him coming from his former players. He's a guy that cares about his players, and cares about winning. Sounds like he'd fit in Blacksburg with our family atmoshpere. Not like we don't have a salty coach that uses some language already wandering around (Bud). Guys want to play for him, I don't feel like we see a team that cares about playing for it's coaches anymore. We need something different. I think that's a culture that can fit us. we want the lunch pail D and an attitude, but we don't think Rich Rod's attitude is acceptable?
Everyone is hating because he's from WV and coached WVU (even though we only lost to 1 of his teams). Over on the Georgia SBN blog they did a comparison of Richt to who would you want to replace him if you fire him, when you look at the top tier coaches there aren't many that will be a sure fire instant winner outside of like 3 guys (Saban, Meyer, Fisher). So anyone claiming "he can't win big or against top 10/25 opponents" surprise guys most coaches don't end up with a great record against those sorts of teams, as evidenced in Beamer. There just aren't many guys who won't have some weakness in their resume if you pick at it hard enough that'll look bad on a board here.
Let's not fool ourselves, we aren't Georgia/Ohio State/UF/Bama/Mich levels of attractive as a job. Expecting us to land a sure fire coach who will instantly make us a top 5 program isn't a reasonable expectation. If you're gonna be okay with guys who have been HCs for >5 years (Fuentes, Fleck, Herman), then we ought to be comfortable with a guy who has taken multiple P5 teams to top tier bowls and top 10 finishes. At least he's proven he can do that.
Tulane. FTFY
Crap I picked the wrong small T titled team. Appreciate it.
you could've picked Tennessee, too....
I think quality of the person is very high on Whits list (See Buzz and his philanthropic efforts). So if RR meets those criteria for Whit, and you are correct about how his players feel about him, yup, could happen.
I would not be surprised if RichRod is our head coach in Bristol.
This rumor just will not go away, and not only that, but it seems to keep getting more and more legs as time passes. Starting to get the feeling people know something about this situation and they're just feeling more comfortable talking about it as our season spirals.
Plus, how much of a complete trolljob if our first game against WVU since the 2005 game when we knocked them off when #3 would be to have the coach who had them at #3 on our sideline? The venom out of hill country would be palpable.
I, for one, hate the guy. I never want my beloved Hokies sullied by that anal seepage.
But how do you really feel about the guy?
While I fully expect Frank Beamer to be on the sideline next year, I guarantee the one sure fire way to get me to cancel my Hokie Club donation will be to hire trash from WVU.
I happened to catch a bit of the clip where RichRod was criticizing the PAC-12 game times today. I just got the feeling that, if given the opportunity, he would rather be back on the East coast. I know Arizona is rewarding him well with the stock option and all, but I just don't see that as the be all end all if he would rather be at a traditional football school back east.
This rumor just keeps hanging around, and when you consider his strong relationship with our AD, it just makes sense. I don't really have anything personal against the guy as some in our fanbase do. Yes, he coached at/came from a bitter rival of ours. So what? College football is a business. I think the guy just made a terrible mistake taking the Michigan job, and it burned a bridge with WVU. He wasn't terribly successful at Michigan, but we need to put in perspective what type of a coaching job that is. Those boosters and alumni are big time and heavily influential. RichRod was not their "Michigan Man." You're basically coaching the the shadow of Schembechler and that coaching family, and when a guy like RichRod comes in with a complete culture shock from the pro-style, pocket passer offensive mentality that had been there for two decades, there were going to be some challenges. He had to basically overhaul the offense and personnel to try and fit his system, and I'm sure there were growing pains from players who were still loyal to the Carr way of doing things. He was doomed to fail, and the administration there didn't want to be patient with him. Keep in mind that his recruits did have a 10-win season and a Sugar Bowl win over us in 2011 under Hoke.
The guy has actually made Arizona (which has little to no football history) relevant in the Pac-12 and nationally. He knows how to recruit dynamic athletes who can fit his system, and his offenses have been very successful. His spread system fits the talent that we are able to regularly recruit, especially in VA. Elite pocket passers and offensive linemen are scarce. I would be fine with RichRod leading the next era of VT football. Combine his offensive system with Bud's defensive system, and I think we would have a successful formula in place to regularly contend in the ACC and nationally.
I think you raise a lot of good points. Whit, I think, would definitely be facing an uphill battle getting the major VT donors on board and buying into the RichRod culture. It would definitely take a lot to get the bitter WVU taste out of my mouth, but if Whit felt he was the best hire for VT, I'd trust in him and hope they are both on the same page for what continued culture we want for the VT football program.
Alright USC, you have ONE FUCKING JOB: hire him so we don't get the chance.
There is a news article stating that USC wants Pete Carroll back as Head Coach. Not sure how realistic of a chance there is for USC.
Why would Pete Carroll go back to college NOW? I mean, he should wait till he gets caught breaking the rules again, and THEN go to the college scene again to escape responsibility and repercussions.
I didn't know Pete Carroll ever coached at South Carolina, the only USC mentioned in the original post. Also there is no reason for Southern Cal to ever even talk to RichRod. They're like Texas in that they envision a certain type of coach, and feel their program has a certain prestige level, and the likes of RichRod just doesn't fit.
And Southern Cal can want Pete Carroll back all they want, but it's totally unrealistic. A wise Master Chief once told me, "you can wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up first." Carroll is far too successful in Seattle to take a demotion to college ball right now. Assuming the Rams don't move back to LA, Jeff Fisher seems the most likely NFL coach to end up at the Southern Cal job.
By any chance are you from South Carolina? Because people from there are the only ones that ever call it USC without disambiguation in mixed company.
Nope. I just didn't feel like typing out South Carolina, and assumed people could use the context clues provided to get which one I meant.
Well, you did say only USC, and both Southern Calfornia (USC in the minds of 49 states and the District of Columbia) and South Carolina will need new head coaches next year. Either one of them could have fit the context you gave.
At any rate, I'm just picking nits. If USC or USCe hires RichRod, all the better. I don't want him either.
RichRod has been a very solid coach at several schools, but what about that makes people think he could take VT to the next level? What hidden advantages does VT as an institution have that make RichRod (or any of these other solid but unspectacular P5 coaches people are salivating over like Richt) suddenly start producing better results than he has the rest of his career?
IMO if you want to start winning championships, you have to take some chances. Playing the safe game, hiring a "proven" solid coach is more often than not going to produce the same level of results they've produced at other stops. And judging by the comments we've had as a fanbase over the years, most VT fans want more than solid for the program.
Seriously. I want a coach that is going to get poached by Alabama in 5 years
I want a coach that is going to turn is into a team that the Alabama players and coaches are jealous of....
Simply not going to happen. Hokie Nation has nowhere close to the fan base and donor base that Alabama has. VT can shop at the designer stores, but at Alabama the designers come to them.
Plus, all other ACC things remaining the same, an SEC powerhouse is never going to be jealous of an ACC team except for their weaker conference schedule.
What makes you think Tom Herman, Chad Morris, Fuente, et al. could take us to the next level? I'm not saying I don't like those guys as coaches, but the fact of the matter is that there is no guarantee with anyone that we're going to win the national title. What we need to establish, first and foremost, is relevance again. You start winning and contending in your conference yearly, then you start getting into the conversation for the national title. RichRod has won conference championships, played in and won big bowl games, and can recruit athletes that fit his dynamic offenses. I have no idea who the next coach will be, but the hatred towards RichRod and belief that Morris, Herman, Fleck etc. will be far and away better options is just absurd to me.
Well said. Not to mention, those guys either won't be around or, IMHO, will have better offers than VT.
RichRod would likely perform to the level he has at all of his previous stops, which would be solid 8-9 win seasons and dropping just enough games to stay out of the playoff conversation. We've seen that before, in the mid 00's with Beamer, and a lot of fans were not happy. There are a staggering amount of threads on here filled with comments on how VT should set the bar higher and not settle for "pretty good." IF there is a coaching change this year, than you might as well go big, take a chance, and hope for that small chance we snag the next Saban before the rest of the country realizes it.
If we strike out, so be it. I'm not going to return my diploma cause the football team lost more than 6 games. The chance to finally wave that championship in the faces of all my UVA colleagues faces more than makes up for that.
Let's go after Mike Tomlin.
Whit Babcock isn't playing with Monopoly money here. I'm sure he will perform his due dilligence in finding the right guy, but if the thought process is that we should make a risky hire in trying to find the next Saban, you're likely going to be sorely disappointed. I really like Herman, Morris, Fuente, etc, but right now those guys are just hot names. It takes so many variables aligning correctly for any team to win a national championship. To make a hire expecting a national title is a bit putting the cart before the horse. We are not OSU, Alabama, etc. We have the potential to once again be a national power and contend for the title, but we need to focus on becoming relevant in college football again. We need to dominate the coastal again, and compete for ACC titles. We do that, we're in the national title conversation. And I think if Whit has faith in the guy, then RichRod could get us there.
I'm sure you would agree VT is a much better coaching job than WVU? And Arizona too? He overachieved at WVU and made them a national power while he was there. He has Arizona contending in the PAC-12 and just played in a NY6 bowl. He was bad at Michigan, but that was a situation doomed for failure from the beginning.
I think RichRod has the ability to get us back to dominating in the ACC. We do that, we're in the playoff picture. At that point, it's a game by game basis. Any team could get hot and win on a single game basis. You can criticize his record in big games, but look at most any coaches record in big games. Saban has lost his fair share as of late. Those are hard to win. But I think RR could get us back there and give us a shot at the title again. He may not ultimately be the guy, but I can completely understand why Whit would consider him.
I would be very disappointed with this hire.
I would be very excited with this hire.
I would have trouble watching VT football if he were hired.
I say we just preempt everything and start a petition for Hokie Club members that will drop the membership like a bad habit if Rich Rod is hired- just send a nice little message to Whit. I'll be signature #1.
#2
Ugh. Might as well make it a #FireWhit petition. No trust. F*ing sad.
If he hires Rich Rod, I'll be glad to.
3
If thats enough for you all to turn your back, you wouldn't be missed
People have been dropping their Hokie Club membership for years for what exactly? Hiring a cancer like Rich Rod for a clean family like VT would go against everything that VT football means to me.
Thanks
I don't need to go down the list of why Rich Rod is not welcome at VT. You can scroll through this thread and find plenty. And any one of them is good enough. Add them all together and you're damn skippy I would end my membership. We don't need anyone like him here. Sorry, I'm not for winning at all costs. There are plenty of people that I think would be a better hire and a whole damn bunch with better character. I've been with this team through thick and thin all my life. So, don't give me that "if that's enough" bullshit. You can take that I'm a better Hokie than thou stuff and piss off.
+1 for "Sorry, I'm not for winning at all costs."
Well that's the pot calling the kettle black.
Ha. How so?
I'm pretty sure you just finished some Super-Hokie talk about how RR is the devil and true Hokies shouldn't support him. I won't be upset one way or another if he is or isn't the next coach, but I'm not understanding the moral high ground Hokie stuff. Lots of coaches seem like jerks. We all say Dabo and Saban can be jerks.
I may have insinuated that people that want him are misguided, but never called out anyone's Hokie cred. Now Alum07 was talking about me turning my back like I'm some kind of fairweather fan. I was pointing out that RR's not worth the baggage when there are A) better coaches out there B) with much better character. I've been a Hokie fan since the 80s and will always support the team, but it would be a cold day in hell before any of my money went to RR's salary.
All these Richrod haters are fun to read. At least he has can fire a team up. FB is a horrible motivator. His team's only get up for big games because it's easy to then. In 99 Vick motivated the team because you always felt you could win with him. Beamer has never been a good motivator. Bud motivates the defense and that's it. FB is too busy standing there with that dumb look on his face that he sports quite often these days. His own ego is running the program in the ground and they wanna talk about family. FB is all about FB these days not family.
So two points, I completely disagree that CFB is not s good motivator. Ask any former or current player and they will tell you they love playing for him. Then you stooped so low to make a personal attack on CFB. Call out his coaching, call out his actions leave the personal attacks at home.
Didn't you call RichRod a "cancer?" Seems an attack of a rather personal nature.
Because of his actions not because of his looks.
Hold up. We're calling criticism of the who farted look a personal attack now? I think that's a little overboard.
Also, if a coach is a good motivator, his team doesn't play down to the level of their competition. That has plagued us as a program for years and has become a more serious problem the last four or so. A coach who is a bad motivator will field an inconsistent team, and inconsistency has been the issue that has kept our program from reaching its fullest potential.
Players may love playing for Frank. That's not the same as being a great motivator. Players loved playing for Bo Pelini and he's an asshat.
1. I disagree FB is about family: He wants to keep his son employed. LOL!!
2. I agree FB is not a great motivator/having the team prepared to win: Look at the bowl record (big bowls), wins against top tier teams! See comments posted after the UCLA game: team was flat or not ready to play etc.
3. everyone has a right to there opinions even if you feel they are a personal attack on FB.
4. I have always said FB deserves all the credit for building VT to a household name but He dropped the ball after Vick (in recruiting) he had a opportunity to build something special but did not act on it. Not sure if it was a money thing and FB and Weaver put the money into the school, their pockets, or what but they did not invest in taking the program to the next level. A UVA friend of mine always says FB built our program with smoke and mirrors. Beating up on small schools and loosing to top 20 teams!! it's really hard for me to argue when I look at our record/teams played.
5. I believe players do love playing for FB and he's a father figure to them. He and Shane alike have shown how much they care for the players. exp: Exums day care....
6. I will always remain a fan of VT and FB. I will support whoever the coach is because that's what a true fan is suppose to do. Although I have my opinion (which does not mean a lot) of what is best for the program and when FB should step down. It's just an opinion and luckily it's not my job to make those decisions d/t I hate to eat crow if I'm wrong!?!
A UVA friend of mine always says FB built our program with smoke and mirrors. Beating up on small schools and loosing to top 20 teams!! Oooooh, you have a UVa friend?
Perhaps, you need to view this argument from a different perspective. It's been noted here and various places numerous times that you become a top 20 team by not losing to those teams that are not top 20. Those years that we lost to Miami, USCw, Alabama (twice), LSU, Boise, Kansas, Georgia, Michigan, Stanford, etc., where did they finish?
Who cares where those teams finished. We lost to them! That's the point.
You're UVA friend is wrong
Referring to my handy spreadsheet, compiled using USA today recaps and rankings noted 1995-2013...
Vs. ranked opponent 39- 28
Vs Top ten 6-14
Vs. 11-20 25-6
Vs. 11-25 33-13
You're going to have to explain this one...
Teams don't win by getting motivated by halftime speaches like in the movies. They win by working all year long to be ready on game day.
I think they win by working all year long, AND being motivated to win.
Don't all teams give a motivational speech before the second half?
Do they? I doubt they get the Al Pacino last inches speech every week.
Every time I see cameras in the locker room just before halftime ends, whatever team is in there is getting a "pep talk".
I've always heard athletes say that the butterflies last until that first play. I always assumed that any kind of energy from a pep talk would be similar. I'd be interested to hear from any of our lurking ex players how much there is to this.
it might not last but its that little tick/adrenaline that can get you going. like a jump-start for a car.
I don't know if Pitt or OSU received a half time speech but their play coming out of the break was devastating.
Every time I see Rich Rods name, I throw up in my mouth a little bit.
Can we not trust Whit to do what's best? Lotta folks were upset with Buzz Williams' hire. Now, lotta folks are excited by the hire. Not for or against RRod, just sayin' I am willing to trust Whit until given a good reason not to.
Any fans who were upset with the Buzz hire are a VERY small minority, at least on this site. Although people have been getting a little sore with the methods Buzz used to drive off a couple players.
Who didn't want Buzz? That person shouldn't be allowed to speak. Or type. Or sign.
...who the hell was upset when we hired Buzz? That was a homerun across the board. Lol
But what about Chip Kelly?
Edited to add: /s
I personally don't want to go down any road that involves a coach who bounces back and forth between college and pro as a head coach. I can understand moving up and down as an assistant or a coordinator, but as a head coach it just seems to mean to me either he a) will follow the money when made an option (reason for going pro) or b) doesn't fit the legacy model (reason for coming back to college).
Plus, I am not impressed with what he's done in Philadelphia, which makes me extremely happy as a Redskins fan, but makes me wary as a Hokie fan.
Yeah I wasn't at all serious. Forgot to switch to sarcastica font
Yes, I would absolutely hate
To hire a coach
Who went and tried the NFL thing
And came running back to college after it failed
The exception that proves the rule...
To be fair, his problem was the name on the front of the tucked in sweatshirt, not the name on the paychecks.
Isn't Haney the guy that got minimal Cred in another thread? Just wondering why this has legs and that didn't.
In the college world, I'm sure a lot of people have connections to others. That doesn't mean RR is a shoe in cause he knows Whit.
I personally would like some new blood, and RR isn't that. Something fresh and continues old traditions while making new ones. Someone who would be excited and happy to be at VT.
Let us not forget that Frank was the head coach at Murray State before we got him. Murray State.
MURRAY ISN'T EVEN A STATE!!!
Metallica for head coach!
But can Kirk Hammett recruit at an elite level?
Maybe we could just have them co-coach the Battle at Bristol.
I actually wouldn't mind seeing that. A friend of mine noted that in the Stiney days it seemed like there was a monkey throwing darts at the playbook and whatever it hit, that's the play we ran....can't be worse than that, can it?
Why Rich Rod will not be the next coach at Virginia Tech: 9-18-2021
Nah, Rich Rod can coach in a pope bubble for that game.
Well, I can report from my #marinades in Tucson that this rumor is not going over well, and apparently not 1 month ago he told the school admin he was there for the long run. Take that with whatever grain of salt you need to.
My biggest worry with RichRod is this. Back when Arizona was considering hiring RichRod he was essentially on the outs. Nobody seemed to want to touch him, but Arizona talked to a lot of people and interviewed him and assessed that whatever was wrong before was not going to happen again. He was more humble and stated himself that he was moving to Tucson to build something there.
Now I know that coaches change and coaches need to say things the right way to instill confidence but I also am privy to a little fly on the wall there. And what he has been saying in those #marinades behind closed doors was definitely more of long term commitment. The school/boosters even went so far as to give him a one-of-a-kind bonus structure that is the best payout ever in college football. Yes, he needs to stay for a long time but the pay out is currently estimated to be 10 million at the end of that agreement. That's on top of the 2+ million and bonuses he makes per year.
So what I don't like about hiring him isn't whether I think he is a good coach, or can succeed. it's when he is going to leave. Because if a city like Tucson, with the boosters they have, a school's admin backing him 100% and throwing money at facilities, and the money they are throwing at him personally isn't keeping him there then what exactly makes anyone think VT can keep him in Blacksburg?
If he is hired and is successful I think he will be gone in less than 5 years.
Great insight...
Fair enough, but if he leaves a place like Tuscon with the $, the facilities, etc. then there is more to coaching football than those things to him (being closer to home, football culture maybe?) and that's a big positive for me re: him staying here longer term.
If he leaves a place like Tucson just because of the weather, I think he's somewhat foolish.
Damn is it nice out there.
It is nice here if you like 6 months of summer...and I'm talking HOT. we usually get about 60 days of 100+ degrees and even with the dry heat, it gets old fast (though July and August get humid days when it rains routinely). This was my 8th summer and I'm ready to move to a place that isn't quite this hot. it's starting to get really nice now, and will be until mid-April.
I remember Rich Rod's first "fall" camp, it was over 100 every single day...I think they had to move it to Sierra Vista down near old Mexico as its a few thousand feet higher in elevation and hence cooler.
I think his recruiting is quite poor overall, though. Mike Stoops out-recruited him and there are stories of him getting 4 and 5 star talent for official visits and Stoops basically ignored them, even at official functions. There's little doubt he can make his scheme work with all sorts of talent, however. I wouldn't mind seeing him in Blacksburg one bit.
I know my sources aren't quite as connected as Fernley's, but most of the Wildcat fans I've talked about RR to VT (and granted, that was last year which shows just how old this has been floating around) didn't see it happening as almost all of them were convinced he likes it here and so does his family. I'll be watching this one closely in the near future.
But, as we all know, it's a DRY heat!
While I agree coaches need to say the right things at the right time (interviews, conferences, to players, to boosters) very rarely, epecially at Rich Rod's age/experience do they change. Coaches at that level are what they are, and aren't prone to change. That's what scares me. He'll say what he needs to say to "come back" close to home, but how long will that last?
I don't know how his payout can be anywhere near $10M. He'll get 175,000 shares of Western Refining Logistics LP which as of today valued at $23.90 (Link to current price) down from the initial price of $35.36 when set aside. They pay $1.46/unit in dividends currently.
Now the full 500,000 unit donation to the athletic department is still valued at a bit over $10M but RR doesn't get all of that.
Location. It's ironic because it's often stated (regarding potential recruits and potential hires) that Blacksburg isn't as attractive of a landing spot as opposed to a big city like LA, Miami or the like, because "who wants to live in the mountains of SWVA?" Rich Rod supposedly wants - no really REALLY wants - to move closer to his roots/home in WV.
Disclaimer: This is partially my own speculation and partially what I have been told by a WVU alum I work with, who grew up playing sports with and went to the same high school as the Rodriguez's.
RR is fine and OK for me. If Our AD likes him and Trusts him as his biggest hire for VT..And I'm long time Hokie Club Member. That's why we have AD for, to make these decisions..
campus rush.com
I haven't seen this article posted over here, but I thought it was an interesting one. It does mention Tech & a possible job opening, but I think the most interesting part is the interview w/ Dan Hawkins. He talks about not just moving to a P5 school, but moving to one that's a good fit. It's a good read, & relevant to a RR hire or one of the younger up & comers.
There's also that little nugget.
Oh, but we're just little ol' Virginia Tech in the woods of SWVA. We're not a very well-recognized football program, we can't attract any big coaching names. We don't have the resources. We're too remotely located. Blah blah /s
I hope Whit's favorite coach on that list sees it that way, too.
this is great and all....but "considered" by who, exactly?
I'm guessing John Q. Footballfan. Just talking about general perception, which IMO is a stronger metric than some pundit's personal opinion. I'm guessing if you went out and asked people who casually follow college football as fans and ask them what the premiere programs in the ACC are, they'd include Miami and VT even though neither has been relevant for a while, simply by virtue of history.
I think there would be consensus amongst sports journalists and fans alike that VT is definitely one of the top jobs in the ACC, and arguably the top job in the mid-Atlantic region. I would argue we are a top 15-20 job nationally as well. We are located in very good recruiting grounds, great facilities, strong fanbase, football tradition, widely respected academic institution, and in a Power 5 conference that, isn't the gauntlet of the SEC, but can get you in the playoff if you win. We dominated the ACC for a very long time. The ACC, by design, set everything up so FSU and Clemson could battle it out in the Atlantic and VT and Miami in the Coastal. Those are the four main football schools that the conference absolutely needs to be great. GT, UL, NCSU, BC etc will make it interesting annually, but the conference depends on those big four football schools to give the ACC national relevance.
Let's not forget that they also designed it so that we'd never have the insult of playing UVA in the ACCCG.
Neither will any of the other ACC members.
^^^^ More THIS.
They set it up so that we could ensure they never make it there
Why bother? Uva takes care of that themselves.
They don't need help.
15-20? Seems a little high.
Arbitrary list:
Top Tier (6): Bama, OSU, Texas, ND, LSU, Michigan
2nd Tier (14): Oklahoma, SC, Florida, FSU, UGA, aTm, Auburn, Penn St, Clemson, Oregon, UCLA, Tennessee, Nebraska, Mich St
3rd Tier (10): Arkansas, Wisconsin, South Carolina, Okie St, Miami, VT, Ole Miss, TCU, Baylor, Stanford
4th Tier (13): Mizzou, Miss St, Kansas St, WVU, GT, Ariz St, UMD, UNC, Arizona, BYU, NCSU, Pitt, UVA
Maybe you want to argue UCLA and Nebraska in the first list? Wisconsin and Nebraska are pretty similar right now. Arkansas is right there as well. It's hard to say what you do with TCU and Baylor. Okie St has a ton of money. Miami has a ton of swag and history but no money. Stanford has nerds.
You could say VT is just as good of a job as Nebraska, but you also say VT sits with KSU, WVU, GT, UNC and NCSU. VT may be just as much a 4th tier job as a 2nd tier job.
A lot of it is subjective, but I would think VT has the potential to be a top 15-20 job. People would have no problem arguing that 5-6 years ago. South Carolina has had some success under Spurrier, but I would consider VT a much better job when you factor in overall historical football success. South Carolina hasn't had a conference championship since the ACC in the 60s and never played in a BCS bowl game.
Clemson is definitely a hot name right now, but again, if I asked you 5-6 years ago which was a better job, you might be inclined to say VT. Same with UCLA and Michigan St. UNC has big resources, but they are a basketball school. No ACC titles since 1980, no BCS appearances. It's really subjective, and you can base your rankings on simply monetary resources or historical success. But I think given our peak under Beamer, you can argue we have the potential to be a top 15-20 job. Again, ask yourself 5-6 years ago which job is better: TCU, Baylor, Stanford, Ole Miss, Okie St, South Carolina, Clemson, Mich St, or VT? A lot of those other teams have had great success in the past few years, but little before that or in recent memory.
I think you can't be a prisoner of the moment when looking at the best coaching jobs. There is absolutely no way I would put USCw in the second tier. They have struggled as of late, but they are arguably the most successful college football program ever. Baylor was an afterthought in football until RG3. Same with Stanford until Luck/Harbaugh, Ole Miss before Freeze, and so forth.
You put a top of the line coach in Blacksburg that kids legitimately want to play for and give him in state access to the 757 and DC regions, VT would quickly solidify itself as the powerhouse top dog of the mid-Atlantic region. The potential at this school to hit a height we can't fathom right now is there if we bring in the right guy.
You knock this hire out of the park, and the potential is there to immediately vault ourselves into the discussion with FSU and Clemson for top dog in the conference on an annual basis. And you better believe the guys who are looking to move into a career defining role know it. You get a legitimate name coach at Tech, and the sky is the limit. Someone like Chip Kelly would have us in the playoffs within 3 or 4 years.
You're absolutely right. With the facilities and location that we have, there is no reason we can't/shouldn't compete for the ACC title every single year. Plus the personnel that an offensive mind would inherit next year is scary; Motley/Lawson, McMillian, 10 other RBs, Ford, Phillips, Hodges and Rogers. A guy who runs a spread system like a Chip Kelly, Rich Rod, Herman, Fuente or Chad Morris could easily have this offense ranked in the top 30 in the country in their first year. Especially playing in the coastal where there aren't any really good teams.
In addition to all the above, VT is also tied with GT for 21st in all time wins among NCAA football teams. Just for fun, let's compare VT's, Clemson's, and Oregon's football accolades. If we look at the jobs since the beginning of record, Clemson has more conference titles/bowls/etc. But lets look at the these programs in the past 35 years (since 1980).
Major bowl appearances (BCS, Bowl Coalition/Alliance, NY6, etc.):
VT: 8 (2-6) Clemson: 3 (2-1) Oregon: 8 (4-4)
Conference Championships:
VT - 7 (3 BE, 4 ACC) Clemson: 7 (7 ACC) Oregon: 7 (7 Pac-10/12)
Conference Championship Game Appearances:
VT: 5 (3-2) Clemson: 2 (1-1) Oregon 2 (2-0)
Individual national awards for players:
VT: 5 Clemson: 4 Oregon: 9 (all but one were Marcus Mariota in 2014; included both his and MV7's ESPY award)
NCG Appearances:
VT: 1 (0-1) Clemson: 1 (1-0) Oregon 2 (0-2)
Wins (1980-2014):
VT: 286 Clemson: 283 Oregon: 267
You might be right, but it will be damn hard to guess which coach can do that. Consider the coaches of the current playoff contenders:
Art Briles -- 34-28 in 6 years at Houston, 33-30 in his first five years at Baylor (including a 10 win season) before the last two years. Two years ago, Art Briles was Larry Fedora.
Gary Patterson -- Has been at TCU since 2000, including 9 top 25 finishes in his first 11 years (4 top 10). But went 7-6 and 4-8 in 2012-13. Two years ago, he was Kirk Ferentz.
Kyle Whittingham -- Has been at Utah since 2005, including 4 top 25 finished (1 top 10) in his first 10 years. But went 5-7, 5-7, 9-4 from 2012-14. Just last year, he was Chuck Amato.
Mark Dantonio -- Was 18-17 in three years at Cincy before getting the MSU job in 2007. Before 2013, he led them to a bowl every year, three top 25 finishes, no BCS bowls. In 2012, he was 7-6 with a Buffalo Wild Wings Bowl win to get over .500. In 2013, he led MSU to the Rose Bowl win, last year, a Cotton Bowl win over Baylor. Three years ago, he was not quite Bo Pelini.
We know the stories of Dabo Swinney, Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, Les Miles (28-21 at Okie St) and Jimbo Fisher. David Shaw took Stanford to the Foster Farms bowl last year for an 8-5 season.
Of the 30 or so names that are likely candidates for our job, we don't have any idea who will or won't succeed. But I'm sure we all will have our opinions (too inexperienced! too old! no upside! I hate RichRod!). There is no model that succeeds or fails. Old, young, inexperienced, experienced, defensive, offensive. I haven't found any commonalities which mark cues for success.
But what would we be if we didn't try, right?
Everyone is in full support of getting the best coach possible. The difference lies in those who seek more upside (and accompanying risk) versus those who seek more stability. My point is that in studying current coaches, there is no clear cue to success. Young coaches don't necessarily result in big upside. I doubt Baylor was thinking of Art Briles upside when he was hired. And established coaches, such as Whittingham, can have the right team at the right time to contend. Or established coaches like Patterson can evolve and become even better.
It's a sock drawer, they all fit your feet.
It may be a "sock drawer", but different coaches also have different styles of play. I think they also different have different potential, even if there is some uncertainty. There are a lot of intangibles,.
So if it's a sock drawer, you still have to pick the one that matches your shoes, activity, and style, and that's what gives you the best chance of success.
There are an infinite number of possible ways for it to come together, but if it doesn't work out, you end up going through the process again.
The selection committee will need to establish their criteria. The debate I see the most within the fanbase is upside versus stability.
I just don't see any patterns. You can choose a stable coach with limited upside (say, Mark Richt) and he might go Kyle Whittingham or Gary Patterson on you. Or you might choose upside over stability (say, Chad Morris) and he might go all Lane Kiffin or Brady Hoke on you.
They should swing for the fences.
Two tropes for which I do not subscribe:
History of a program -- Very much irrelevant. Nebraska has history. Pitt has history. Nobody cares about South Carolina's conference championships in the 1960's.
"Basketball school" -- To me, that just says you have a strong brand. Kentucky wants better football. Everyone wants their biggest program to succeed. Kansas isn't holding back funding from football so that their basketball program has more shorts. Kids have always combined sports, not much difference in UNC football and basketball to the brand conscious teenager.
To the first point, I would contend that "5-6 years ago" is a really big deal. Those are the conscious years of a recruits life. I like your phrase "prisoner of the moment," which is a dangerous position and certainly not how coaches would consider their options. But where you are in this moment can be critically important. To drill down on that more, it could even be said that what the next two years teams look like should be really important (a huge positive for VT, who I think is very close to being an ACC contender).
There are a lot of factors here and we can certainly value them on our own scales. VT is a good job, I would have it around 25th. That's not too different than your perspective.
I agree with you about the "basketball school" idea but I disagree with you about the history of a program idea. I think the history of a program is very important. Why do Notre Dame, USC, Miami, Florida State, Alabama, Texas, Michigan, Penn State, etc ALWAYS get good recruits? Because of their history.
From 2006 through 2009, Florida State had three 7-6 seasons. Their recruiting classes immediately following those seasons were; #25, #12, #8 and #6(ESPN's rankings). Why did so many talented recruits go there when the team was mediocre at best? History of the program.
Why doesn't Virginia Tech get any top 10 recruiting classes even though we have virtually those same records? Because we don't have any history.
I'm sure I'll take some flak for saying we don't have history, but let's be real, we don't. We went to one NC solely because we had one of the most gifted athletes to ever play college football. Sure we had 8 straight 10 win seasons. But think about it. Who were we beating those years to get to 10 wins? Cincinnati... Duke... GT... BC(sometimes)... UNC... William & Mary... Maryland... ECU(sometimes)... Ohio... UVA... Miami... We didn't exactly beat any top teams.
to me, history = money. The more history you have, the bigger stadiums you have. The more season ticket holders you have. The more boosters you have. So I don't discount history entirely, I just file it differently.
That's the biggest draw back to VT. We have rabid fans, but our Hokie Club memberships are way too low. Which means we don't have the coffers that others do for the extra. I expect VT will spend a lot of money on a new HC, certainly over $3m, maybe pushing $4M. That's a lot. But the thought process is that we need a good HC so we can win so we can grow the fanbase again. It's a risky move, but its the move that Whit made with basketball.
It's the right move.
Go big or go home.
Agree. I think we're mostly in the same ballpark, just have different ideas on what the metrics for job status and potential should be. Regarding basketball schools, such as UNC, I agree they have a strong brand. But if the job is so great, then why haven't they parlayed any of that great success on the court into football? UNC has been pretty pitiful historically, and so has Kentucky. I feel like most of the excitement and focus in their athletic department is centered around basketball. Students there get excited about basketball season, not football season. To me, that difference in culture makes a HUGE difference in where a football coach wants to be. I agree that history since the dawn of time is vastly overrated. But I would say five years is too narrow. If so, then TCU and Stanford are two of the top jobs in the nation. Above in this thread I did a comparision of VT, Clemson, and Oregon since 1980 on wins, bowls, conference championships, etc. I feel like that is a fair window since it covers the golden years of all programs and is enough of a recent sample size to gauge. VT is definitely more in the company of those programs than some may think.
That's a great list of potential coaches.
There's at least one thing that could make RR hesitate that I haven't read here - CFB will remain closely associated with VT athletics. If you read Third and Out, I'm not sure he would want a repeat of what went down with Carr.
I think not. I believe when the time comes, Frank will find peace and happiness in that rocking chair down in Nawth Calina, and we'll be lucky to see him at a big game here and there. Just my opinion, but lots of folks just don't know how much retirement changes your perspectives.
*Not so subtly
RichRod meets one of Whit's criteria - offense first guy. But he's by no means a good recruiter, so I don't see how Whit would have him in his top 5.
Looks like they just linked him to the job again.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/13928860/alabama-crimson-...
Realize the context of the article, but hell thats all we're doing here anyway. Still interesting that it came up again.
Why would Whit hire a guy that so many Hokie fans would hate even before he coaches his first game in maroon and Orange? Even if the hate is illogical? I'd prefer a coach that the entire fan base can embrace so we don't have these coaching hate threads every week.
I wonder how many of those Hokie fans would really walk away from the program because of the hire? Winning really does cure a lot of ill feelings.
Speaking only for myself I would still go to games and support the players but will not support with monetary donations the hiring of him.
Okay, here's my problem. I know that I'm not supposed to like RichRod, but I don't remember why. He left WVU under not so great circumstances, and his tenure Michigan was a failure.
But because that was all a few years ago, and not VT, and I've had a lot of other things occupy my brainpower since then, I can't remember specifics.
So, I ask this in a completely non-sarcastic way, can someone summarize why is RichRod bad?
He is a line in the sand that would separate the fan base. That's not what we need right now. As for the reasons why, just read above. You will find tons of logical and illogical reasons. The biggest for me, he was the figurehead for a school I hated even more than the Hoos during that time period.
I think this is a valid point. As a strong RichRod supporter, I agree that it is an extremely divisive move at a time when our fanbase really needs someone to rally around. We need to come together.
I would be excited about RichRod's offense. I like him, he's entertaining. I don't think he has really done anything serious in the eyes of the NCAA. His "lack of family atmosphere" at Michigan was reportedly because he swore too much....which is pretty laughable for a football coach.
That said, if 20-30% of our fanbase would be this worked up, maybe it's the wrong move. I think he's a good fit, but he's not that good of a fit.
I think this pretty much nails how I feel. I would be unhappy with a RichRod hire, probably not to the point of being furious like others, but put me in that 20-30% that would not like it. Replacing Beamer, someone who is universally revered and respected, with someone that has such vocal opposition (even if it is the minority, it would not be insignificant) just sounds like bad PR and very bad timing.
So we want someone with:
Head coaching experience at a FBS school
Success at their current school
Non-divisive, popular, universally revered and respected
Creates a family atmosphere
Not a system coach (like Paul Johnson)
Just out of curiosity, who in our price range meets ALL that criteria (before you think about who can outbid us for said individuals)?
I never said we needed all those criteria. My main point is that RichRod would constitute almost a complete 180 from Beamer and would cause a lot of consternation that we don't need right now. We're not going to get someone "universally revered and respected" because we pretty much have the only guy that's like that right now, outside of maybe Bill Snyder among FBS head coaches.
I want to see someone that is energetic, a good recruiter, has demonstrated success at the HC level or at least an outstanding coordinator, and is a positive influence in the lives of his players (sufficient to replace the VT Family mantra that we have now). In my mind, I wouldn't knock the hire of someone like Morris, Herman, or Fuente, from what I know about them.
Our price range is "as high as we need to go to bring a top coach into Blacksburg"
You don't spend $2.5M/yr in basketball, a sport that loses us money annually, to bring in a top coach only to skimp in the sport that makes us money.
For our sake, I really hope you're right. In Whit we trust.
Mark Richt.
When I told my brother, who graduated from UGA, that some people were saying they would like Mark Richt as their next coach, he got excited. He, along with many UGA fans want Richt gone.
Just wondering, why 'not a system coach'? Those programs seem to be pretty successful
Herman from Houston would be a good get. He was well respected as OSU OC and has definitely instilled a good atmoshere at Houston. He's offensive minded and meets your other criteria as well. The only knock is his short tenure at Houston. VT would be a good fit since I would guess your administration would give him a chance toe establish himself and the program and not expect an undefeated season and a NC within a few years. He could be the guy who stays there long term as well since he would have the support and atmosphere that makes it a great job. I'd love to see him at OSU post Meyer but I'm guessing he gets a big time gig before then.
But that's not a reason. You've basically said you don't like him because other people illogically don't like him...I haven't heard any real reasons yet other than he was a coach at WVU
But that is a real reason. It doesn't matter that it's emotionally based.
Let's get real.
If RichRod came to VT and won games, most people would forgive that he was once coach at WVU.
I think folks are still missing the point of my question. Let's take VT's potential coaching search out of the picture.
I know that RichRod used to be the coach at WVU and Michigan, and currently at Arizona. I know that his exit wasn't the greatest at WVU, and his tenure at Michigan sucked.
But for some reason, I know that I'm supposed to not like the man, but I can't remember exactly why. If I was a WVU or Michigan fan, I could understand not wanting to deal with him ever.
I'm not asking why he's a bad fit for VT, I'm asking why I seem to have placed him in a list of bad person in my head. He hasn't been in the news for anything bad or controversial recently.
I think you are missing the point of my answer. He's not the devil. If he was, he wouldn't still be coaching. It's not that. It's mostly that to this particular fan base he is a little rough around the edges and represents a time when hatred for WVU was extreme. There is a pride factor that makes it a struggle to go from hate to love. And let's face it, perception is all that matters, it doesn't have to make sense.
Again, valid point. I guess I have come to a conclusion that RichRod is a good fit, but not that good of a fit to split our fanbase over. We used to use 'P-win' (Projected Win) as a way to measure the chance of meeting your goals on projects. If I was to define my own goals for this "project," it would be to be a favorite in our division, to be a contender in the ACC, to bring our fanbase together, to run as clean of a program as possible, to make Lane Stadium fun and feared again, invigorate recruiting. My P-Win % for each of the heavily discussed options might be something like:
Richt: 95%
RichRod: 85%
Harsin: 83%
Herman: 82%
Fuente: 81%
Addazio: 75%
Cutcliffe: 75%
Morris: 74%
Brohm: 73%
Babers: 73%
Rhule: 70%
Campbell: 70%
Fleck: 50%
As you can see, I would rank Richt clearly the #1 choice if you can get him. After that, I have RichRod right there with Harsin, Herman and Fuente. I don't think the divisive nature of RichRod may be worth it if you can get one of those other three. But if you can't, you are dropping down a tier to Addazio and Cutcliffe and the next group of Group of Five coaches. I would take the risk of the divisive RichRod over Addazio or Cutcliffe et.al.
So, illogical as the opposition to RichRod might be, it's a real issue. I don't think it is appreciated enough how much our fanbase is at the precipice of a malaise.
RichRod might be divisive among some fans, but so is almost any coach, including Beamer.
I'd take him over someone internal. A course-correction is in order. You're right, apathy is setting in, and it's not really all that recent a development.
Whoever Whit gets needs to be great recruiter with a strong sense of purpose and direction.
RichRod would only be divisive as long as he doesn't win.
Thing is, his schemes win games. Arizona didn't exactly luck their way into the Fiesta Bowl last year.
He's not going to likely win instantly though. During that time the fan base would be divided. Would you hire a CEO that you knew 30 percent of your valued workforce despised and wouldn't fully support? I wouldn't. There has to be better options available.
Where did you get the 30% figure?
That's just the hypothetical that's been thrown around. Could be lower or higher for sure.
I think you are greatly overvaluing just how much people care.
Sure, there might be 30% of the online community and those who closely closely follow VT who would be upset by hiring him, but I strongly believe the vast majority just wouldn't give a crap.
He was at WVU. I think you discount the hatred among the older crowd that don't want anything to do with an ex-coach from the 'eers. Maybe 30% of those that don't donate anything will care, and that won't affect the till. But if one large donor is peeved at that hire, he could pull a substantial amount.
We practically wore WVU's jerseys a couple seasons ago and people loved it
Once again, people will see that he runs an innovative offense that can and has quickly turned around poor programs. We're so hungry for offense here at VT that the vast majority don't care who we have to bring in to make it happen.
And while you say that hiring a former WVU coach would be a bad thing, I counter that by saying hiring a coach that is universally despised in WVU land would be awesome.
There is evidence at Michigan that on the heels of a traditional and conservative coach, the success isn't instant. He didn't get a fair shot there, but why wouldn't the same fan hatred boil over here, causing premature fan panic.
vtnerf
He was at WVU. I think you discount the hatred among the older crowd that don't want anything to do with an ex-coach from the 'eers. Maybe 30% of those that don't donate anything will care, and that won't affect the till. But if one large donor is peeved at that hire, he could pull a substantial amount. I'm not aware of a donor so large that they have that effect, but it doesn't mean there isn't one. I'm not sure there is a Kevin Plank who has that level of influence on VT's program.
I'm not interested in letting one donor make that kind of decision. I'd view that as more of a power-play than a rational decision-making process. If someone is willing to yank their contribution because they don't like a coach that they don't even know, I'm happy to do without their contribution. I'd like to think our donors are better than that.
If ALL or most of the big donors felt that way, I think it would be a more reasonable consideration.
I think Whit can take that into consideration, but I think the overriding concern is whether a new coach can be effective, fits in with the culture, and is a positive influence. I trust Whit to be able to make that assessment correctly. I feel like he really knocked it out of the park with Buzz Williams.
Wut? I didn't say one alumnus would make the decision. I said one could pull their donations because of their hatred of WVU. Big difference. And yes, it'a power play, but they are the ones with the money. Who makes power plays? Those in power and those with the money.
Maybe this will be the case, maybe not. But there are plenty that are blindly backing someone they don't know. Or railing on someone they don't know. Let's be honest, of everyone on here, how many know a coach. Not met, but truly know.
To be fair, in what I wrote, and what you quoted up here, I was responding to this:
I think the fact that there are discussions shows that a lot of people care. And the older crowd has a LOT more experience with WVU; not all of it good. Take what we have with ECU and how people react with that "rivalry." Multiply it by 100 and add a few decades to the mix. We played them EVERY year from '73 to '05. I was just pointing to the fact that sometimes the big donors care more with their money (or less) when it comes to annual donation time. And that depends on the warm and fuzzy they feel...and if an ex-'Eer coach were to be rolled out in Blacksburg, there may be some rumblings. I.E. People would care.
I said: "I'm not interested in letting one donor make that kind of decision."
You said: "Wut? I didn't say one alumnus would make the decision. I said one could pull their donations because of their hatred of WVU. Big difference. And yes, it'a power play, but they are the ones with the money. Who makes power plays? Those in power and those with the money. "
If someone says "I'm going to take my ball and go home", I'm perfectly OK to let them go home. As far as I know, VT doesn't have a Kevin Plank who is donating 10's of millions every year, and is a position to call the shots. Contributor opinions matter, but they're not a VETO.
It's not worth splitting the community over, but what I'm detecting here are a few people who feel really strongly about it, and a lot of people who are shrugging their shoulders.
Whit should do what he thinks is best for the VT program. My preference is that he swing for the fences, and get the person who he thinks has a shot at a national championship.
Nice legs. I'm with you.
The few people on this thread are thousands when extrapolated. And as you say, they feel strongly. Thousands of people that strongly disagree with a hire will be a cancer. Maybe not as bad as Michigan was, but something similar.
All this angst, teeth gnashing, whining about RRod because of WVU, where was it when Ricky Stokes took over the basketball program? Yeah, I know, kinda apples to oranges, and I hate WVU, but I don't have an opinion of RichRod. I also know speculation is at a steroid level here, as it tends to be on a fan site, but chances are we'll never have to find out. Who here speculated that Whit would hire Buzz? We just don't have a clue what's in his mind or on his agenda.
According to my research, Bobby Hussey's tenure was only marginally better than James Johnson's when we hired Ricky Stokes.
I admittedly didn't follow Tech basketball then, but I'm pretty sure that at that point, we were gonna take whoever we could get. Even if it was a Hoo.
In the 1990's, Bill Foster actually had the team in respectable shape. I don't know why they didn't work harder on finding a higher quality replacement at that time.
Yep, he did. Bobby Hussey was a good example of an in-house hire that was done for the wrong reasons. Bill Roth always referred to him as ''The Gentleman, Bobby Hussey", but I met him twice and found him to be cold and somewhat dismissive, to put it as nicely as I can. He may have been a good assistant, but he sucked as a HC. Stokes was, frankly, a stupid hire I've never understood. I was around for all of those coaches, even Moir, and until we got Greenburg, Bill Foster was the only decent coach after Charlie. For those of you who weren't around "in the olden days", I will remind you that VT had some decent bball teams and the Cassell used to rock regularly. We weren't what you'd call great, but the on floor product was decent and entertaining enough to have a good fan base that showed up and vocally supported the team. Things seemed to change as football got better and better, and for me, the cost of season tickets for two sports was prohibitive, but my wife liked bball games in person, so we still went when we could. In the 80's, we lived three and a half hours away and would travel to bball games occasionally, more than football games even. Looking forward to Buzzketball season.
I would think it's mostly the older crowd that cares the most, the ones least likely to be on an online community.
Someone internal isn't even an option any longer.
You're right.
If I knew I was going to lose Bud anyway, I would still consider giving him a shot. I've never personally thought he would make a great head coach, but I thought the same of Dabo. So, if he is going to bolt, consider it, if not and he will stay on as DC, go outside.
I'd like to know as well.
But, I think its important to remember, that while we hear about 'stuff' with Rich Rod, we may not really know the full story. Whit knows him better than any of us and will fully vet him if he does hire him, so I'm inclined to trust Whit with this until he proves he's not a good judge of coaching/ character.
I think this would be a bad hire on so many levels.....
> He has no respect for any traditions - this was his first strike for most Michigan fans, he thought OSU was just another game.
> He skirts the rules and the ethical limits
> He is a system guy and while he has a successful system it is totally dependent on a certain type of player to run successfully
> He success has been based on a lot of guys that are marginal academically and has been accompanied by lots of off-field issues. We have enough off field issues as it is an I don't want to deal with the embarrassment that Rich Rod would bring.
> It is always only about him, not about the program, not about his players, not the University, only about Rich Rod
> I believe he would be a bad representative of the University. This is pretty important to me.
> He is a bad fit for the VT culture, the school, the fans, the administration....everything
> And yes, he is a jerk.
I could go on and on but think that is enough. I have been impressed by everything Babcock has done to this point but a Rodriguez hire would cause me to question the direction we are going. There has been a lot a background noise everywhere he has been and everywhere he has interviewed. Where there is smoke there is probably fire.
Sick conjecture, bro
I was skeptical of RichRod just based on the negative reactions until I started reading people's reasons. This is all nonsense, projecting what you want to see in someone who was a rival over a decade ago.
More than conjecture, much more.
Cryptic post is cryptic.
Could you perhaps expand on that in just a bit more detail?
Okay then. Cite your sources, please.
It would be particularly interesting to hear the source on "It's always about Rich Rod."
Maybe an ex-girlfriend from junior high?
LINK
Yet another rumor about RR
"After spending the second half of the season as Barrett's backup, Cardale Jones will enter the NFL draft. The New England Patriots will draft him in the fourth round, and he'll eventually lead them to two Super Bowl titles."
Ahh good old ESPN...
Full disclosure: As of right now, I am neither for or against Rich Rod. I was hoping to see some salient points in this post from both sides to help me make an informed decision.
I have yet to see much from an anti-Rich Rod post that is more than just, "I don't like him" followed by lot of conjecture and projecting to back it up. I have little doubt that some of the reasons against him would not be viewed as such significant red flags if he hadn't coach at WVU. A lot of us hate the 'Neers and it is hard to not let that cloud our judgement.
I see his stint at Michigan and the NCAA violations there presented as a negative, but realistically, he was set-up to fail because he wasn't a "Michigan Man" and didn't want to do things the same way that those with the most influence wanted. As others have pointed out, the "lack of a family values" was really about him cursing and doing things differently than Lloyd Carr. I have yet to see any quotes about a lack of family atmosphere from players at the other schools where he has coached. Why is that? I would love to see these if they exist.
The NCAA violations were over requiring practice time that exceeded the NCAA limit. If my memory serves correctly, they were only violations because a coach or GA was present to observe or they gave them print-outs of work out schedules to follow on their own time. If the players decided to do this on their own, then it wouldn't be a violation and would be heralded (like our guys over the summer). He wasn't setting up a strip club in a dorm or harrassing teachers to change grades or setting up fake classes for athletes. Most of these complaints from his Michigan tenure really look like excuses made by people that didn't really want him there in the first place and just wanted him gone.
I am not sold on him being a good recruiter, which we desperately need, however.
I have seen some good arguments for Rich Rod. He runs an offense that can reliably put points on the board. Wouldn't we love that? His teams have done well in terms of record. He won a BCS bowl over a heavily favored UGa. His teams generally appear to be tough and physical which we have been missing for a while now. He apparently has a good relationship with Whit. That has to count for something, right, if we think as highly of Whit as we do?
I see Rich Rod as a coach who helped WVU punch way above their weight-class, left for greener pastures only to find he was in a much better place before he left, did some good studio work, and is now working on his redemption story at Arizona. I also think it is possible for him to have learned his lesson about realizing what you have and appreciating the pasture you are in instead of bolting to the shiny new thing. He would have to have learned from his Michigan experiece and I am sure if you asked him, he would probably say that he regrets having taken the Michigan job. To expect him to still be the same man that he was when he was the coach of one of our most hated rivals is a bit unrealistic. A leopard cannot change its spots, but it can grow up and gain wisdom and maturity.
Having said all of that, what we really need is someone who is not irrationally hated by a large part of the fanbase. He may be the offensive genius that we need, but we need full buy-in from anyone who could potentially be a donor. Rich Rod limits that almost immediately, but would winning cure that ill? Would a return to tough, hard-nosed Hokie football help us forgive and forget the Rich Rod of the past? Players are coached to forget the last play and move on to the next. Can we maybe use a bit of that attitude?
I do not know the answer to all of these questions, but that is why we hired Whit. I will let him do the due diligence, trust his instincts, and make the hard decisions. No one thought for a second that he would bring in a coach the caliber of Buzz (who, it should be noted, led to a lot of attrition when he showed up), but he did and it gives me hope that he can repeat that success. It is fun to guess who the next coach will be, but I will support whoever it is because that person wants to be a Hokie and Whit thinks they have what it takes.
I'm not sold on the great recruiter being absolutely necessary in the head coach. If we win games and place players in the pros recruiting should do a lot to solve itself. Let the assistants be the best recruiters, they're the position coaches anyway.
I think a better term would be a great closer is needed at the HC position. Someone that is going to fly in to be in a top recruit's living room telling him that he needs and wants him on the team the day before he announces.
That is the one thing that sticks in the back of my mind about recruiting. We know it is a bit of a chicken vs. egg scenario, but the best players want to go where they have the best chance of making it to the league. I think that this is a major knock on Foster's defense. We can put DBs into the NFL, but who was the last successful D-lineman or LB that got drafted? Jason Worilds maybe, and he isn't even in the NFL anymore since he just retired after finally transitioning from college DE to high-caliber NFL LB. Darryl Tapp is still around, but he isn't the most recognizable name to recruits. You have to think that this plays a role in recruiting and leads to top D-lineman and LBs going elsewhere. Foster's defense is basically a "system" defense, so I am not so sure we can pair that with a "system" offense that will eventually not put offensive players into the NFL either.
"I isn't the Xs and Os, it's the Jimmies and the Joes." Ideally, recruits want to go to schools that win and put players in the league. But, they will more likely go to teams that do not win as much as long as they can get them to the NFL. The elite players aren't going to schools that win most of their games but don't have any of their player's names called on Draft Day.
With regards to Foster's defense, you bring up an interesting point. I have wondered for a while now if the case is Foster's defensive system turns away elite DL/LB recruits, or if Foster is forced to resort to a more high risk/high reward defensive system with an undersized front 7 because he can't recruit/isn't closing on the top talent. We know that Tim Settle is an absolute game changer for Foster's defense. I have no doubt that elite linemen and linebackers could flourish in his system, but why we are not getting them is puzzling. Is it the system, or an issue with recruiting?
The sad thing is there's at least a decent chance that Foster never coaches him in a game...
I agree with a lot of this, as well as vtfly's reply to my comment above.
When it comes to recruiting, I know little to nothing. But I'm going to make a few guesses here. Recruits probably want some combination of getting to the NFL, getting a quality education, having a good relationship with their position coach, and having confidence that the head coach has the program in order to win.
Your points about our front seven are spot-on, in my opinion. I would love to see Foster take our undersized linemen and use them as LBs, as I think this would put them in a better position for the pros due to having better size for their position as well as having years of experience in those positions (as you mentioned Worilds - I think had we played him as an OLB instead of a DE, he would have been better prepared to be an OLB in the pros, maybe been drafted higher, maybe he would be more successful at his position now, but that didn't fit what our defense asked him to do).
As far as having a coach as a closer, I think that is also a good point. I think, though, that if a recruit is getting along well with the DB coach at Alabama for his entire recruitment and suddenly Nick Saban wants to visit your house, you're gonna be floored simply because he came. I have a hard time believing he's a real charismatic guy when talking to recruits, but his stature and accomplishments probably do a lot of his recruiting for him.
It seems as our recruiting has improved since the last influx of more recruiting based coaches, our player development has declined. That was (one of the) rubs on Al Groh's tenure. Good at recruiting but nobody ever improved once they were there.
It's hard to say that we are coaching them up the last few years.
I'm hesitant to say that recruiting has drastically improved. No doubt we have definitely gotten some great players, and we have definitely changed our recruiting tactics and territory, which are good things. We're going out of state more to find guys than previously. And we are recruiting position-specific players that address areas of need, whereas in the past, we often relied on recruiting athletes and molding them into the position. Case in point: we are actually going after OL, not recruiting heavy TEs and moving them there, recruiting WRs and not athletes, QBs and not multi-purpose athletes, etc.
But you could argue that these are things that every good program does and that we SHOULD have been doing for a long time now. We're still losing the battles for our top targets way too much, and this year's class looks to be a big step back (probably the worst ranked class since the program-crushing 2010/11 classes.) In the day, we depended on our ability to go after the diamond in the rough/under the radar guys and coach them up. In today's recruiting world, those once unknown guys are now becoming known and pursued by more programs. That makes the next line of under the radar guys significantly less talented than those of ten years ago.
When examined only in the macro sense, I think recruiting ranking loses a bit of meaning. Sure, it'd be great to pull in a bunch of 4*-5* guys, and I'm not going to argue against that, but consider that I believe this class will be smaller since we had a full class in 2015 and we only have 14 scholarship players listed as Sr. or r-Sr. on the roster, and few, if any, underclassmen likely to declare early. So there aren't a lot of available spots and as a result our accumulated "star power" in the rankings will be lower.
And what have been the major weaknesses so far? WR and O-line depth/talent. What is the 2016 class full of? WR, OT, and a few other positions sprinkled in (several LB, a QB, a DE, and a couple CB). We're going after positions of need, and while it would be preferable to pull in some big names, the staff is doing what it can to fill needs with talented kids.
I will agree. Recruiting rankings don't always tell the whole story, but they are a pretty good indicator of an individual player's and an overall class' potential. You're right in that this class will probably be smaller, but if you look at the individual player rankings, we have a class of mostly mid-range 3 star guys. We are definitely going after positions of need, and the WRs and OL in the class definitely have potential, but a mid-range 3 star ranking leaves a lot of room for not panning out. They very well might, and I hope so, but they very well may not as well.
Just looking at the overall rankings from recent years, from 2005-2012, we had an average 247 national recruiting rank of 26.75, with our low points in 2010 (34) and 2011 (36). From 2013-2016, our average recruiting rank is 27.75, exactly one spot lower on average from the previous period. Our overall rankings since the coaching changes were made are 21 (2013), 27 (2014), 29 (2015), and currently at 34 (2016).
So, we have definitely changed our MO, started pursuing position-specific talent in areas of need, and begun going out of state more to find talent. But I'm apprehensive to say that our national recruiting position and overall product has improved much, if any, since the new hires were made.
Also, aren't there projections that landing Landon Dickerson would move us into the top 25 recruiting classes? This isn't a disaster of a class, it just doesn't have the traditional high-4 anchors our classes usually have to tip us into the top 25. I'd rather have a stable of high 3 and low 4 star WRs coming in than a bunch of 4 star "athletes" who will never find a spot.
I agree with you there, but there are some very high quality athletes that I'd love to see them add, and I think you need a few of those if you're going to compete with top-ten caliber teams.
This may come out of left field but....
Why not Foster? You know he'll probably toss Loeffler. Get a great offensive mind into the OC position, someone young, energetic, and can fix the systemic problems. A great defense + a great offense. Foster rides the hokie train till he's done, and hopefully, if you've done it right, you have a great OC waiting to take over.
Just food for thought.
I know that Saban and Rich Rod aren't the same level of coach, but we aren't Alabama either (yet).
I just have to wonder how Bama fans felt at the time about them hiring the former coach of one of their hated rivals who left for a higher profile job and flamed out miserably. Not exactly apples to oranges, but similarities are there.
Working for a bitter rival is par the course in the SEC. Saban won a national championship (and beat bama many times) at LSU, and now is their savior. Will Muschamp was a noted Georgia alumnus when he joined Florida (their most bitter rival by far). Spurrier is arguably the most important coach in Florida football history, then took a division rival to new heights. The list goes on and on.
An interesting (?) side note. I am presently camping in Moab, Utah on a month long western camping trip. The fellow in the space next to me went to high school with Spurrier. Claimed he was a dick then and never changed his stripes, but that there was something special about him even then. He said he was popular, though, and just didn't seem to have a need to please his peers, a high school staple. I know this doesn't add to this discussion, but it has been raining and I'm stuck in the camper and need to just get off the damn interweb. I'm out. Oh, and while on the off topic stuff, saw Jimmie Johnson's car hauler back in Missouri last week, and Darrius Rucker's tour equipment semi the next day. Whoopee, I know, but I ain't in Virginia anymore and my eyes are wide.
Moab is awesome. I don't know if you're actually in Moab, but if you are bring the camper to the Needles District of Canyonlands. Will be a bit of a drive, but hands down one of the most beautiful, quiet places you will ever visit. Hike Chelsler Park. Oh, college football, Beamer, new coach, ECU is playing a ranked team & no one is in their stadium, & Rich Rod.
Am sitting in Canyonlands Campground in Moab this moment, raining like a sumbitch. We were heading for Needles having camped there several times since '92. Have done Chesler Park among other great hikes there. We may opt for Green River next, trying to camp with two dogs has limited our options in national parks, but we have loved Needles and Canyonlands since we first set eyes on it. Strange and wonderful, nothing like it anywhere else on earth, in my opinion. Yeah, we'll probably miss the Duke game, still no wifi in Needles, but I remember seeing a game in Moab in the 99 season, maybe WV, where a fellow at the bar saw my VT hat and remarked that he didn't know that Vermont even had a football team. Yeah, that was 99, because I recall telling him about Vick and that that was our year. Kokopelli, red rock, slick rock, Colorado River, Negro Bill Canyon...yep, we're actually in Moab.
We were out there camping two summers ago, & had the entire left side loop of the campground to ourselves. We saw 4 people in the park for the duration we were there. We fell in love with the place. Moab is awesome. Sucks about the rain. Enjoy!
We've been going there since '92, but always in the Fall, which seems to be peak time. Never had the campground to ourselves, it's usually been pretty full, but we always camped in one particular site that had it's own private box canyon behind the site. Very cool. Even when "busy", once we left the campground to hike, we rarely saw anyone else out, even on 10 mile hikes.
Anyway, thanks, the rain is gone, the weather is fantastic, and we're off to Kodachrome and Capital Reef, then maybe swinging back to Needles before hitting Jemez Springs and the San Juan River (for fishing, of course) in New Mexico, before heading back East. We seldom stay in private campgrounds, but Moab is a cool enough town to hang out in and with the rain, a good place to recharge the batteries, literally, and wash clothes, etc. Now, if we can just get the Moab HS marching band to stop rehearsing right behind the campground at 7:00 am.....
Sheesh this gains traction
http://appalachianmagazine.com/2015/10/22/rumor-rich-rodriguez-coming-ba...
LOL, they compared Holgerson to McConaughey, not Frazier Crane.
Holgo does know how to make the appropriate halftime adjustments, though.
The more they hype themselves up that he'll be the next WVU coach (and this is not the first I've heard of this) the more I would love to land him.
Talk about tossing a vat of gasoline on a simmering fire before the series in 2017.
Hey, they can't just steal our coach like that!
Read that as "can't steal our couch..."
Still appropriate.
#CouchLivesMatter
I am conflicted about RR. I really admired what he did at WVU (at least offensively). He was very successful there, but the mitigating factors are I'm not sure how good the competition was, and I don't trust teams that basically win only by having the ball last (WVU under RR, Baylor and TCU now). That seems to me to be a good way to lose when you turn the ball over or when a team can stop you a few times.
I love RR for running scUM into the ground, but that was never a good match. ScUM is an elitist, arrogant, and self-righteous bunch that lives in the past and on tradition, while RR was a southern, good ole boy. ScUM is wine and brie. RR is BBQ and beer. They never accepted or embraced him, and he didn't win enough early to force them to. Honestly tho, I think he was on the brink of having some success there - based on the fact that Fred Flintstone took his team and had an 11-2 season the year after he was fired. They won the Sugar Bowl. I think you guys remember that one.
He's done OK at Arizona. They are better than when he came, but nothing to get too excited about.
He is an 8-4 coach on average, and every 4 or 5 years he will have a team that is in the national conversation, mostly early in a season.
But VT could be a good fit for him, and I suspect he would do a lot better than he did with scUM and Az. If he was my buddy, I'd remind him of the rule in coaching: "never be the man that follows the legend", and if I were a VT fan I'd be worried that the ACC is more similar to the B1G and PAC than it is to the competition WVU had when RR was there.
FTFY.
Just to help with the context...
He started off in the old Big East, with VT, Miami, and Boston College still in conference. Looking over his records, things didn't really start taking off until 2005 (after all three had left). Their only loss in 2005 was to our favorite team here, a season that ended with a win over Georgia in the displaced Sugar Bowl. (Side note, the following year, we played Georgia in the same stadium for the Chick-fil-a Bowl, and I heard several fans comment about how much more pleasant we were as opposing fans.)
2006 and 2007 were the years that the "new" Big East (basically, post VT) were actually shaping up to be decent. In 2006, WVU, Louisville, and Rutgers were all undefeated headed into November, before they started beating each other. WVU got up to #2 in 2007 before choking to Pitt in the final weekend, but that was also the craziest college football season ever.
Although, with conference realignment, WVU's schedule circa 2005-2007 would be very similiar to VT's now.
There are a few things here I'd like address:
In all three cases, he started from scratch at installing his own system. And in each case, he improved their records. Because of the trend his teams have shown, I'd say he raises the level of achievement in each program he's coached each year he's been there.
All in all, I think RR has as solid a resume as anyone for our school - and saying that he prefers BBQ and beer instead of wine and brie makes him all the better fit for us.
As long as he keeps Foster on as DC...
Honestly, this post should end this discussion on whether or not he is good enough to take over. He would be a great coach for us, and would have us playing at a high level quickly.
Unfortunately, the irrational hate will continue to live on
I'm not sure anyone was saying he's not good enough. The points against him were from those that don't want him to be VT's next (or future) coach. Maybe he would do a good job at Tech, and be happy, and so forth. Personally I think he's a douche canoe, with sauce on the side, but that's my opinion. I'm allowed to have that thought, no matter how it was formed. Knowing how I feel and the reasons why, I can see older alumni feeling the same way.
I wouldn't call it irrational hate. That's "I don't like green M&M's, just because." Not, "I don't like RR because he was at WVU, nearly put Missagain on probation, and only wants to come back east to be in/near West By Go Virginia." If he wants to be "close to home" go back to Glennville St, Frostburg, JMU, Pitt. I just don't want him at VT. And that's not irrational hate. It's just an opinion. And it will live on.
As I said, the irrational hate will continue to live on
So if I don't like his NCAA violations, but I believe he would have success in terms of wins at VT, that makes me irrational?
As you have previously taken others to task over uses of phrasing like "true fans" or "True Hokie," I would think you would be a little more understanding that other people have differing opinions that are not irrational or unfounded, rather than expecting a homogeneous response because...reasons. Guess we should all just fall in line, then.
What NCAA infractions? The practices?
Those have been discussed ad nauseum on here and have numerous times been pointed out they were really nothing more than a witch hunt to get dirt on a guy people at Michigan were unwilling to accept as coach because he wasn't a "Michigan Man". I guarantee you if we had the same kind of witch hunt going on in Blacksburg right now, with people willing to do whatever it takes to find dirt on our current coaches, we wouldn't exactly come out squeaky clean.
I keep hearing of all these infractions he's supposedly guilty of, but have yet to hear anything valid in regards to what he's done. Until that happens, I will continue to call all of these concerns irrational. People just don't like the guy, can't really explain why, but will call him a "douche canoe" nonetheless. To me, that's irrational hate.
Do I need to list off the reasons again?
Sure, name-calling is dumb. I don't get into that and I don't think people should. The guy broke the rules and his attitude was (and I've seen this quoted in news articles), "the rules are bullshit." Were they minor infractions? Sure. But he broke rules and showed contempt for them. I don't doubt that broken rules happen everywhere, even here, but to show utter disdain for the system publicly is not an attitude I support. So I don't like the guy for how he handled that. Same thing that many people here have made fun of Pete Carroll for (openly granted, the USC violations were MUCH bigger, but I have seen within the last couple days people say they dislike Carroll for his response to the situation - bailing - not necessarily the violations themselves) If RichRod comes to VT, I wouldn't be very happy because I think we would do well to go another direction. If he subsequently demonstrates himself to be of good character, liked by the players, etc. I'd change my tune. But I think VT can and should get someone else as the next HC. So I don't like him right now. That's not irrational.
It is kind of irrational though. You're trumping up a non-issue (there were no sanctions, no penalties, everyone moved on) and then judging somebody's character on it. Just because you have a reason doesn't mean you have a strong argument, that reason has to be substantial. If you're reason is "much of the fanbase would have a problem with it (reasonable or not) and I don't want that kind of discord", then I could see your point. But judging someone's character off of a non-issue is unfair and seems like grasping for reasons to rationalize an emotional response.
So if someone does something wrong but is never penalized for it it's no longer wrong? Are you Bill Cosby's lawyer by any chance?
Come on man, that's a cheap shot. There's two sides of this, one is if we're afraid of sanctions.
There were some minor sanctions after an investigation. There was some wrong-doing, but it's also pretty obvious that the powers-that-be at Michigan were attempting to get him fired. It was a very murky situation that we don't really know much about. All told it was a relatively minor offense and we don't know the specifics of who was responsible for what or how widespread it is. Personally I take pride in the fact that VT runs a clean program, but it would be a huge stretch to say that his hire would jeopardize that. This was not a UNC/Miami/Penn State/etc type situation.
The other side is judging his character based off of the situation. We don't even seem to really know what happened, other than there was some noise from big time Michigan donors that didn't like him. Seems like a crappy situation. Personally, it takes a lot for me to judge somebody else's character and I think it's highly unfair to make sweeping generalizations about what kind of a person somebody is based off of where they went to school and a sticky situation at a place where he was clashing with higher-ups at his place of work.
If it was just "issues"at Mich maybe he gets a second chance from me but the investigation was because of the same issues at both WVU and M. Not to mention I can't respect a man who gives people who committed to him 10 mins before he runs away. Those among several others are my issues with him.
Hadn't heard of him having the same issues at WVU. If it really has been a pattern, then I understand the concern, I just haven't heard anyone else mention it anywhere but at Michigan.
As for giving 10 minutes...he gave his team a face-to-face meeting, that's more than the majority of coaches I've heard of, and I can't imagine a statement lasting long than that. You and I don't know what that locker room was like or what went on, all we know is that he at least said it to his players' face.
How is what has been said about NCAA violations that much different than what you said about Chip Kelly?
You don't want Chip, I don't want Rich. It's about open discussion.
If Chip was hired, I would buy in fully to him being coach
There are some saying if RR is hired, they're gone forever
Psst...you're feeding it by "arguing" that it's irrational.
I'm not sure I've seen any of that (or much anyway) on here. I've seen plenty "I don't want him." But not, "You hire him and I'm done!!!!!!" Sure, I said I bet there is a donor that would pull his donations, and I bet there is one or more of them, but not on here banging their drum.
What sports hate is rational? The fact that this thread grew at this rate is proof that his hire will create discord amongst the fanbase. Just because an opinion is different, doesn't make it irrational.
If your reasons for your actions aren't based in solid reasoning they are irrational. Skepticism is healthy, but it doesn't excuse poorly formulated arguments. This is an engineering school, damnit.
You can't just say "that's my opinion" and use that as an argument. That's literally the definition of irrational, you're forming an opinion that's not based on rational thought.
I don't like him because he was at WVU. And because he broke the rules at Missagain. And he's linked to VT because he wants to come back east near West Virginia. (I don't care, that's not my problem. He has the cash to live wherever he wants.) That's not irrational.
This is a discussion board, right? Not a "let's all agree and move on" board. I don't like him. I said I have my reasons. I listed a few above. What I've said is the negative side of anyone/everyone that has said "he'll come to Blacksburg and win a lot of games." How do you know that? You don't. He may fail miserably. He may end up with less talent than ever before. He may not be happy with his staff. But that doesn't stop some from saying "he's awesome and I don't understand why you don't like him because he'll win games at Tech. Heck, he might get us to 11 wins sometime..." Saying that stuff, under your definition, is just as irrational.
No it's not. Personally, I'm not even totally on board with him as a coach, I just think that arguments should be held to a certain standard, and people's hatred for a rival is making for poor arguments.
It's not irrational for someone to say "he could get us to 11 wins". The guy is a pretty good coach and has had success everywhere he's gone. He's shown qualifications and I think we have a lot going for us. That's analyzing the situation and coming to a conclusion.
Not liking someone because he was at WVU is irrational (as I stated elsewhere, hiring your rivals is common place all over the country). Not liking him because he wants to be near his family/home town is downright ridiculous (and irrational). If you want to argue breaking the rules at Michigan, that's at least a reason, but personally I think it's a weak one, and it seems tertiary to most people making the argument.
I'd say he's done a pretty good job at Arizona. They were afterthoughts, and now have been in the thick of what is easily the second best conference in the country. They could have won it last year, and probably would be in a pretty good position this year if they didn't lose one of the best defensive players in the country. I have several friends who went there and they'll be the first to tell you that he has single handedly revitalized their program. We also probably won't be friends for a while if VT does hire RR.
edit: I called Arizona ASU
This! The man has yet to lose a GAME at ASU.
Umm what??
Todd Graham is the coach at Arizona State University
Actually he lost at ASU in 2013 58-21...
This is the response I was waiting for.
Anyone still high on Rich Rod after the last four games? This season Arizona has one win against a team with a winning record, Northern Arizona. They also barely beat Colorado and UTSA.
Yes
Yes.
Well worst case it sounds like he would fill Frank's shoes perfectly....LOL.
If Whit thinks he's the best hire, I'm good with it.
I just want wins at this point. I know I could regret saying that later, but I miss the glory days. I would love to get a guy *like* Dabo Swinney. Great at recruiting, smart, young enough to connect with players, has a fiery attitude and would fight for his kids at any cost...
Somebody say my name?
Haha, yeah... He's definitely the type of guy and definitely fits the young and fiery attitude category, but he just hasn't proved any competence, to me anyways. Our running game has pretty much been horrific since David Wilson left (apart from McMillian recently, that kid's got a bright future). I know there are more factors that go into a successful running game, but still...
did you see/hear his halftime speech vs the U on the field this past weekend? Talk about class and a love for university he works for. The game was chippy from the get go, and in typical fashion there were a ton of unsportsmanlike penalty's for fighting/late hits.
Halftime Speech
Yea, they were only up by 42 points at halftime.
That team needed some inspiration!
Then again, I guess they didn't want to Clemson it.
I thought it was a great talk.. he told his players to play the game and not get involved with Miami's dumb unsportsmanlike penalty's. Miami wasn't real interested in playing football just taking cheap shots and talking a lot of smack while being embarrassed. Had they been up 10 points I bet Dabo would have had the same talk and maybe added a little more to it.
It also allowed for the Miami players to get through the tunnel (shared tunnel) and into their locker room without the two teams engaging in more verbal slurs and or smack talk.
I agree.
Was just trying to make a joke at Clemson's expense, but you can't argue with what Sweeney has done there.
I'd love for VT to get a similar type of coach.
for sure.. Whit will get it figured out.
I personally think that anyone who wouldn't want to be in Clemson's shoes right now is crazy. I'd take Dabo in a heartbeat. Sure, there are other coaches that might be a better fit, but let's not say we want the Filet but wouldn't accept the Tenderloin.
I know this isnt the best day to talk about Beamer's replacement, there will be plenty of time for that...but I can't get past the fact that the Beamer news was broken by 'Fox Sports Arizona'
Yeah, definitely a little fishy
Fox Sports' post on it says a source broke it to Bruce Feldman. Entirely plausible that it circulated around the Fox writers, and the AZ dude tweeted it before it was really supposed to be broken.
If we hire Rich Rodriguez I will seriously question Whit and I don't know how well I'd be able to support VT football on a weekly basis. Rich Rod is an above average coach and that's all. Seriously, I just want to type fucking CURSE words thinking about bringing him into Blacksburg - what a lame-ass boring safe stupid average fucking move that would be.....sooooo many feelings
What VT needs is a MASTER recruiter who can get kids and prospects fired up and someone who will let the head coordinators do their jobs. That absolutely fucking is not Rich fucking asshat Rodriguez. Fuck him, fuck that idea, fuck everything about this.
We need a MASTER recruiter. Say it with me now......We need a MASTER recruiter. Depth is what VT lacks so.....we need a MASTER recruiter. Anything short of MASTER RECRUITER on the new hire resume is a complete and utter fucking failure. Nothing would ever change my mind about that. The output of college football is directly correlated to the recruiting input; we do NOT need charts for this, okay?
side note: I wouldn't be unhappy if whoever we hired kept Bud and Scot on staff. If we have great talent and depth, their coaching is absolutely adequate to put us in the playoff discussion on any given year.
So...Shane to HC then?
Well, I think you got what you wanted... so there's that?
OK, now they're just TRYING to make us mad.
#goacc
Its an insider article. Anyone know who the possible wild card is?
Pep Hamilton, who the author says seems more plausible to the Maryland job. I audibly laughed at both suggestions.
nearly as bad as this
My thoughts:
mislabeling us wvu is unforgivable, no to richrod, and do they even try to proofread these days?
#JustSayNoToRichRod #IfRichRodsHiredFrenchRetires
RichRod has to be the most polarizing name to VT fans and I'm in the same boat as you in hating it if RichRod was hired. Very curious as to what a poll of VT fans would produce on the question if they would have a favorable or unfavorable response to RichRod being announced the next VT head coach.
French, please rethink this.
Cause... they're gonna hire RichRod.
What makes you so certain?- serious question
I'm hearing stuff from the same kind of people that called the retirement announcement. I've heard from a couple of #sources that it is a done deal.
Also, a Fox affiliate in Arizona being the first to break that Beamer was going to retire is a bit odd.
I'm not so sure that I would believe a lot of the chatter right now on the next coach. Whit is going to play this one extremely close to the vest. I've heard sections of people who knew about the retirement announcement saying that it's definitely Mark Richt, definitely RR, and definitely Chad Morris. I think anything we're hearing at this point, no matter how well connected some of these people are, is mostly speculation. I wouldn't be surprised if any of those three guys are in play, but only Whit knows for certain, IMO.
I could see it being one of those three, or someone no one is really considering at this point. Whit could shock us all. I guess we will find out in the coming weeks.
Absolutely. I'm hearing opposing outcomes myself. I've even heard that it's going to be Shane...
The RichRod thing seems to have the most legs, though.
Whit has to have his ear to the ground on what the fanbase is saying about Rich Rod. When it comes to uniting the fanbase behind the new coach he'd be better off hiring nearly anyone else, and the only way the hire works out in the long run is if he wins enough in his first few years to make everyone forget why they hated him.
while I agree the business side of it says that Whit is chiefly concerned with satisfying the donor side of the equation and not "all the fans". And if you look at what the donors have been doing for RichRod in Tucson then it is compelling. However, and cannot be stressed enough, the donor ability in Tucson runs far deeper than Blacksburg.
However, I checked with my #marinades in UofA Athletic Department and apparently RichRod had a closed door meeting with the AD and University Pres last week. take that for what it's worth, which is zero, but my #marinade is uniquely positioned to see who comes in and out of the AD's office.
I think it would be reasonable to assume that at least some big time donors would feel the same way about Rich Rod based off of our sample size here on TKP.
This is a great point. Whit made a great hire out of nowhere by getting Buzz, and, although I have never had the chance to pick his brain, I'm 100% sure he understands what it will mean to hire a replacement for Frank Beamer as well as what football means to our athletic department.
Whit is business first, but the business he is in requires more than just cost-benefit analysis. I'm sure he's up to the task.
It may be that Whit has already had discussions with any number of candidates. I, for one, would support a RichRod hire, but given the divisions in the fan base, I would understand if a lot of people didn't like a potential RichRod tenure. Whit may do well to do something similar to what he did when he hired Buzz - find a great coaching candidate that isn't on our collective radars and get him before the information leaks.
You're right. I think it's widely recognized that VT football is a one of the better coaching jobs, which means it might be pursued by more candidates.
I sent an email to Whit today mentioning this very point...Frank said himself he is retiring, in part to keep Hokie Nation united as there was a growing split between those of us who wanted him to stay, and the folk who wanted him to get the boot.
I think hiring RichRod would create a bigger divide among fans than Frank staying another year or two. I'd like to have a head coach that I, and the rest of the fans can respect. When I look at RR, i just see a sleazeball.
A co-worker of mine used to work at TSA and said his buddies saw Charlie Weis flew into Roanoke this weekend. #Sauces #FlightTracker #PleaseGodNo
Could get him for cheap he has three teams paying him already doesn't he?
Yeah, and there's a good reason for that.
If we go after a bargain-barrel coach instead of leveraging our position for the best coach available, I will have lost faith in Whit.
I'm with you but I think Weiss does something for a tv or radio show now so maybe in the area for that? I would think any coach coming for an interview will be flying into Blacksburg itself.
No idea, but I agree - coaching candidates aren't going to fly into Roanoke. They're coming on a private jet right into Blacksburg.
http://flightaware.com/live/airport/KBCB
Just for those who want to track flights into and out of the Blacksburg airport. Just sayin.
every TKP member thanks you, as we will now all bookmark this and watch it 24/7 for the next few months
Weaver is gone- don't worry about that
Is he bringing Tom Brady with him?
Please no....
Interesting article on Rich (along with Todd Graham) http://grantland.com/the-triangle/2015-college-football-preview-arizona-...
RIP Grantland
Just putting this out there- if your primary issue with the end of the Beamer era is that recruiting and talent dropped off, then why in the blue hell would you endorse hiring of a coach that struggled to recruit and then effectively develop top end talent AT MICHIGAN of all places that runs an offense that doesn't attract NFL caliber talent to Blacksburg? Lowest win % in the history of the school. Bad relations with athletic departments and boosters. And that doesn't begin to touch on his personality and snake oil-salesman reputation.
To me, that is doubling down on every problem with the program and creating new ones. Why would you do that?
This times a gazillion
You misspelled infinity.
Right on!
I completely stand with French on the #JustSayNoToRichRod train.
Edit: Reply to French fail.
Just saw this somewhere else and I hadn't heard about it until now. That's a fair amount of coin for RR to walk away from. Pretty interesting.
Source:
http://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2014/6/6/5787434/arizona-basketb...
That MLP is worth $25.50/unit as of today so that's "down to" $4.4M.
as an aside, I don't have RR in my top HC candidates
The only thing that would be worse than a Rich Rod hire would be a RichRod hire with Curt Newsome as the new OL coach.
I think the only good thing about a Rich Rod hire is that (as much as it pains me to admit this) Rich Rod is a smart enough offensive coach not to hire Newsome.
The thought of RichRod at VT makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. I have a man crush on Whit, but I'd be supremely disappointed if that is the best he can get us. Rodriguez will not take VT to the next level... hiring him would be announcing that Coastal titles are VT's ceiling, not competing for natties.
Someone asked a few weeks ago if I could find examples of people who WANTED he who shall not be named hired. Well take a read through this thread, plenty of people like D the idea of that coach being in Blacksburg.