On the heels of Frank Beamer's retirement announcement, Virginia Tech finds itself in search of a football coach for the 2016 season. This is uncharted territory for the Hokies, at least in the age of the Internet. The Key Play will cover Whit Babcock's task to replace Beamer to the best of our ability.
In addition to the sources I regularly check in with, I'm going to leverage the 50,000-or-so people that read TKP each month. Among that crowd are high-level boosters, Virginia Tech stakeholders and perhaps even athletic department employees. If you would like to anonymously share information with The Key Play, please email tips@thekeyplay.com.
I will add commentary to media reports, but will remind everyone what Babcock said when he discussed men's basketball coach James Johnson termination and ensuing coaching search last year.
"I would caution our fan base with this however, not to put too much merit in quote leaks or sources. I've done this enough to know, and I want to warn them or at least let them know, that any time you have a leak, it's done with a motive. Sometimes it's simply a blogger or reporter throwing names up on the wall to see what sticks, and I guess the motive would be entertainment, or seeing if they get lucky on that.
"Other times, I've seen agents on purpose that will leak the name of their candidate, and associate it with your job for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they're trying to leverage us here, but a lot of other times they're simply trying to leverage the school their coach is currently at, or they're also trying to leverage a school that is also open in the marketplace. So leaks always have a motive.
"I've also seen, but we will not do this, I've also seen schools that leak candidate names on their own, to put leverage on the candidate, or to put out a litmus test with the media to get a gauge on their candidates. That's not going to happen here, but it does happen in the industry."
Information will leak for a variety of reasons, and Babcock is right, one of the motivations is self-interest.
I've been asked many times who I want as Tech's next head coach. I don't have a specific answer. In fact, I've found it easier to oppose a candidate, rather then endorse one. Unless Babcock poaches Urban Meyer or Nick Saban, the next head Hokie will have pros and cons. At a high level, I want a coach that will have a vision for the future of Virginia Tech football and be able to see it through. I prefer an energetic recruiter who can own/coach a phase of the game. Finally, I want someone on the upswing of his career who will work relentlessly to make his mark on Virginia Tech. Tech doesn't need to hire a lifer. If the next coach is successful enough to take another step up the coaching ladder then everyone wins.
This is a big board candidates based on media speculation and personal preference. The list isn't in any particular order, and probably isn't inclusive.
Rich Rodriguez, Arizona head coach
Why's this guy in the mix?: Before Beamer announced his retirement there were already rumors that Rich Rod could be destined for the Virginia Tech job. Rodriguez has working relationship with Babcock, and reportedly wants to relocate to the east coast.
Pros:There are three main benefits if Babcock hires Rodriguez:
- Tech will have a competent offense, something fans have clamored for since after Michael Vick left.
- There's a possibility to enrage West Virginia fans.
- A Rodriguez–Bud Foster tag team would immediately challenge for the WCW title belts.
Rodriguez will undoubtedly deliver on the offensive side of the ball. If he jettisons longtime assistant coach Jeff Casteel, and retains Foster, that could be a potent combination.
Cons: His recruiting classes at Michigan had star power, but Arizona isn't lighting it up on the trail. He had messy exits at Michigan and West Virginia. There are also plenty of unbecoming anecdotes.
Rodriguez said he didn't speak to the quarterback for two weeks because he was so mad after the Fiesta Bowl loss, in which Solomon went 28-49 and threw a pair of interceptions.
Above all else, at his press conference Monday Beamer said, "The last thing I want is for Hokies to be divided," as a reason for why now was the right time to retire. Rodriguez is by far the most polarizing name to surface. If he's hired, he certainly won't unify Hokie Nation; at least not right away.
My stance against Rich Rod has been emphatic.
DON'T REALLY WANT TO DISCUSS THE #HOKIES HEAD COACH SEARCH EXCEPT TO SAY THIS: NO RICH RODRIGUEZ.— THE KEY PLAY (@thekeyplay) November 1, 2015
Rodriguez has been a Power 5 head coach for 13 full seasons. He won one outright conference championship and won 10-plus games 4 times. Most of that success happened after Miami and Virginia Tech left the Big East. WVU's 2007 home loss to Pitt ('Eers were a 28-point favorite) with a trip to the BCS championship on the line was among the biggest choke of the aughts.
Initial Assessment: This is a high floor, low ceiling, safe hire.
Chad Morris, SMU head coach
Why's this guy in the mix?: According to then 247Sports insider J.C. Shurburtt in 2013 (via 247Sports staffer Cory Fravel), "Chad Morris wants the Virginia Tech job if and when it opens".
Pros: Moris' motion-laced, smashmouth spread attack at Clemson dominated ACC defenses. Moris' aggressive running philosophy and big-play pass game would fit the culture at Virginia Tech.
Cons: In his first year as a head coach he is currently 1-7 at SMU, and his offense has been a train wreck.
Initial Assessment: He's familiar with the atlantic region, but is a native Texan and to my knowledge doesn't have Virginia ties. It'll be tough for Whit to sell a head coach with a losing record and limited experience to the fans.
Bud Foster, Virginia Tech defensive coordinator
Why's this guy in the mix?: In 2014, Foster told The Key Play Virginia Tech head coach was his dream job.
"I said, 'You know Whit, just like you said you found your dream job, this is my dream job,'" Foster said. "'You've been here three months and I've been here for 27 years and built this program.'
"The thing I let him know though, I'm not a status quo guy. I'm not going to be Frank Beamer. I'm going to carry on the foundation that Frank Beamer started and build on it. Just like Tom Osborne did for Bob Devaney, or Jimbo Fisher after Bobby Bowden. We built something here and I'm a big part of that."
Pros: Foster is widely regarded as the top defensive coordinator in college football.
Cons: Bud doesn't have head coaching experience. Isn't an ace recruiter.
Initial Assessment: Foster's longtime tenure as Hokies' defensive coordinator makes him the logical choice if Babcock wants to maintain continuity post-Beamer.
Steve Addazio, Boston College head coach
Why's this guy in the mix?: He hasn't been connected to the job, and he's seemingly happy at Boston College. However, out of realistically obtainable current Power 5 head coaches, his football philosophy meshes with the one Beamer curated in Blacksburg.
Pros: The Dean of Dudes wants to run the dang ball. He recruited his fair share of blue-chip recruits at Florida. He coached under Urban Meyer.
Cons: His overall win-loss record isn't impressive. Outside of his stint at Temple, he doesn't have strong ties to the mid-atlantic region.
Initial Assessment: While he could be a very effective coach in Blacksburg, it wouldn't be a splash hire.
Mark Richt, head coach Georia
Why's this guy in the mix?: Because everything is fine at Georgia.
Hearing that #UGA power brokers & big dogs now asking questions/talking about potentially moving on--unlike ever before in Mark Richt era.— Bruce Feldman (@BruceFeldmanCFB) November 2, 2015
680 in Atlanta reporting Pruitt could already be out. And that there may have been physical altercations. Yikes.— Corey Clark/TDO.com (@Corey_Clark) November 5, 2015
Just so everyone knows, Jeremy Pruitt is our defensive coordinator and is in the office working diligently getting ready for Kentucky!— Mark Richt (@MarkRicht) November 5, 2015
This is the Whit Babcock hire™: 1. Find off-the-radar, successful, unhappy coach. 2. Hire said coach. 3. ???? 4. Profit. Babcock did it with Buzz Williams at Tech and Tommy Tuberville and Cincinnati.
Pros: He's had nine, 10+ win seasons at Georgia including 2 SEC Championships in 14 full years with the Dawgs. He wanted to hire Bud Foster as his defensive coordinator in 2009, which may mean he would retain him in Blacksburg.
"It was getting ready to happen," said Foster, who is in town with the Hokies to play Tennessee in the Chick-fil-A Bowl on New Year's Eve. "Mark and I talked on several occasions ... and then Tech stepped up to the plate.
"He [Richt] said he would be excited to have me as coordinator. It was going in that direction."
Cons: This is unfair as hell to write, but Richt's underachieved at Georgia — a top 5 program resource wise — because he never won the national championship.
Initial Assessment: This is the splash hire.
Kirby Smart, Alabama defensive coordinator
Why's this guy in the mix?: He's reportedly interested.
Heard tonight that Kirby is very interested https://t.co/NaT3R8wIrc— Dan Wolken (@DanWolken) November 2, 2015
Pros: He's a longtime Nick Saban assistant with NFL and SEC experience. He's fielded top-notch defenses as Alabama's defensive coordinator. He's a superb recruiter.
Cons: He doesn't have head coach experience. It could be a challenge to recruit elite players to Tech that fit his defensive scheme.
Initial Assessment: If Tech hires a defensive-minded head coach, Bud Foster more-than-likely bolts Blacksburg. Smart played at Georgia and spent most of his coaching career in the SEC. The fit seems awkward.
Butch Jones, Tennessee head coach
Why's this guy in the mix?: Because a longstanding website fixated on covering the coaching carousel tweeted about it.
I can't tell you how the VT search will play out; but can tell you that Whit Babcock is a believer in Butch Jones.— FootballScoop Staff (@FootballScoop) November 1, 2015
And Babcock was Jones' boss at Cincinnati.
Pros: Jones went 27-13 with two outright MAC Championships at Central Michigan, and 23-14 with two tied Big East Championships at Cincinnati. He recruits his pants off.
Cons: Jones is just 16-17 at Tennessee in almost three full seasons. At 4-4, he's not making enough moves in year three.
Initial Assessment: He inherited a Tennessee program in turmoil, but he's still been able to sell his vision of the future to the recruits who will ultimately carry it through. The ACC Coastal is less daunting than the SEC East. Jones' pedigree on the recruiting trail, in a familiar region, might spark early success in Blacksburg.
Justin Fuente (39), Memphis head coach; Matt Rhule (40), Temple head coach; Tom Herman (40), Houston head coach; Matt Campbell (35), Toledo head coach
Why are these guy in the mix?: They are the young, darling, up-and-comers, of the non-Power 5.
Pros: All four have won in short order at non-traditional football schools.
Fuente was Gary Patterson's offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach at TCU from 2009-11. Andy Dalton blossomed under Fuente's tutelage. Memphis is No. 3 in scoring offense and No. 6 in total offense nationally this season.
Rhule's recruiting philosophy will perk your ears up.
At some high-profile places, the head coach, even some assistant coaches don't enjoy recruiting. They don't have too. The Jims and Joes will still come. For Rhule however, as a former recruiting coordinator at Temple, he realizes recruiting is the lifeline for the program and has his sleeves rolled up digging in with his dedicated staff.
"I'm involved in all of the evaluation process," Rhule said. "I think I have to be involved in every step in terms of the evaluation of prospects. I want every kid that comes to Temple to know from the head coach on down we view him as a first round draft pick.
"I have really good assistant coaches that build strong relationships with the kids. I trust my coaches to go recruit guys, but (the recruits) need to feel a connection and the parents need to feel a connection with me. I like to have a relationship with the players."
Herman may be the top guy on every AD's board given his tremendous success as Ohio State's offensive coordinator, Houston's 8-0 start and recruiting prowess.
Campbell is 33-14 in just under four seasons at Toledo. That includes a 7-1 mark in 2015. Read this feature on him and you'll come away impressed.
Cons \ Initial Assessment: It's a boom or bust proposition across the board. It's hard to fathom any of these four coaches will slip on the next rung up the ladder, but it happens all the time.
Larry Fedora, North Carolina head coach
Why's this guy in the mix?: Primarily because David Teel mentioned him.
Babcock has no clear connection with North Carolina's Larry Fedora, and pursuing a coach from within your conference is dicey, but on the off chance Fedora is tired of the academic scandal that hovers over the entire university, and which he had no part in, his warp-speed offense might appeal to Tech faithful.
An offensive coordinator under Mike Gundy at Oklahoma State from 2005-07, Fedora went 34-19 at Southern Mississippi from 2008-11, and he parlayed an 12-2 mark in '11 into the UNC job. Fedora is 28-18 with the Tar Heels, 7-1 this season and will be on the opposing sideline Nov. 21 for Beamer's final home game.
Pros: Fedora has more than enough head coach experience. He owns one side of the ball (offense), and North Carolina's recruited reasonably well on his watch.
Cons: At times he's so involved with the offense he gets in his own way. (Waves to Elijah Hood on the bench in the red zone against South Carolina. Hollers at Marquise Williams and Mitch Trubisky flip-flopping at quarterback.) Up until 2015, his ACC record hovered around .500. Doesn't actually wear a fedora.
Initial Assessment: It would be odd for him to jump ship as it's being righted. It would be a very solid hire though.
Pep Hamilton, former Indianapolis Colts offensive coordinator
Why's this guy in the mix?: The Colts just fired him and he needs a job. It's rumored that Beamer hotly pursued Hamilton before Scot Loeffer was ultimately hired as Tech's offensive coordinator in 2013.
Pros: Pep's got plenty of NFL coaching experience. He's a descendant of the Jim Harbaugh coaching tree. Has proven himself to be a capable offensive mind in both college and the NFL. Has regional ties to D.C. and North Carolina.
Cons: No head coaching experience. His stock is low. Hamilton's most prominent pupil, Andrew Luck, may have indirectly helped get him pink slipped from the Colts.
Initial Assessment: I would have been ecstatic if Tech hired Hamilton as its offensive coordinator a few years ago. However, nothing he's done since leads me to believe he's qualified to be a Power 5 head coach.
Comments
Thanks Joe this is exactly what I was waiting for. As always you and the others involved in the Keyplay have done an amazing job with all of this. #gameday4frank
I'll take Richt, seems like the best fit and (hopefully) we keep Foster.
No to Richt. He's a great guy but will not be coming close to winning a national championship. My brother graduated from UGA and he has wanted Richt to leave for years as have many other UGA fans.
Why would you think that he can't win a natty? In 2012 he basically was 5 yards away from winning the whole thing, since we all know they would have rolled Notre Dame. He has fielded a lot of really really really good teams.
My brother's assessment sums it up well. Richt has good teams but not great teams.
I have a handful of Army buddies that are diehard UGA fans that would concur. All of them have been complaining about Richt for years.
Fans complaining about their coach is not definitive proof that coach is bad. It's definitive proof that coach exists.
Lived in Atlanta my whole life, besides the burg, and will tell you with certainty, UGA fans are awful.
Same.
I lived here 3 years, I don't mind them. Tennessee fans are the most annoying. They brag about how much their athletic department spends. Which just confuses me.
Well, sure, you can just say that, but it is all opinion about what is a great team I suppose. I think he has fielded great teams. Plus, a change in scenery can do wonders for a good coach.
We've had fans, a lot, complaining about Beamer for years. In my opinion, Richt is a step up from Beamer.
I don't know if a step up, at least a lateral step. Regardless, I would take Mark Richt with open arms, I feel he is the "splash hire" we all want, and deserve. I also feel, he would come, and stay. I have had a lot of conversations with co workers about this, I will say it here, if Richt gets canned I honestly think he would be announced within 48 hours.
#inwWhitItrust
I think he's a little older than what we're going to go for. We would also have to pay him a lot more than we traditionally pay a coach
UGA has been a dumpster fire this year for sure and the locals are pretty hot about it-
https://www.dawgnation.com/football/team-news/changes-are-likely-coming-...
A couple of thoughts-
Richt hits the all the marks on character.
He's a great recruiter- Jacob Eason looks like the real deal and getting him from from 3000 miles away given Dad played at ND is a coup.
It seems the Schottenheimer hire was a major miss- they've had thier own version of LOLUVA's spin the quarterback bottle and it seems to be desperation driven which is a sign to me that Richt isn't in control and that he made a really bad choices with the OC and O-Line coach hires. Not a good sign there.
I seem to remember that Lefty was Beamer's #3 choice and Mike Bobo was #2 and on board but couldn't make jump. I have to wonder where we'd be if he'd gotten on the plane. Would Frank be retiring now? If so would Bud/Bobo be the next HC?
All in all I'd be OK with Richt but I think there would always be a question of if he couldn't do it with UGA talent what makes us think he can do it here?
Although he is neither my #1 or #2 choice, I think Richt would actually be a great hire. Apart from the fact that the guy is a class act, he has fielded very successful teams with lots of talent and star quarterbacks. One of the biggest reasons why he never reached the proverbial next level is because of lackluster defenses (hence the DC carousel and his lobbying to pull Foster away). If Bud stays as his DC, I think the two could get us into the playoffs.
I can think of one coach looking for a job that would make diehard no RichRod fans happy to have him instead of. I think Charlie Weis has expressed interest in the Virginia Tech job.
lol
....wait...this is sarcasm right?
Yup, a flat out joke. I would rather not have richrod, but I think Charlie Weis would unite all Hokies in saying Heck No.
Here's an article about how Charlie Weis left Kansas in ruins.
http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/102510/kansas-picking-up-pieces-...
If Whit is feeling frisky he can just go straight to buying Weis out
Chad Morris's offense at SMU has been far from a train wreck. Last season they were arguably the worst team in the country, their offense was ranked 128th this year they come in at 68th. I think anyone who watched the Baylor or TCU game saw how much more they have improved , and consider they have played a pretty tough schedule with TCU.Baylor, JMU, ECU, Houston and future games against Memphis, Navy and Temple
yeah that lil tidbit gave me pause...that went against what I've been hearing (and watching their game against Houston I thought their offense looked competent). I think defense has been their biggest problem, not offense.
Morris is also a great recruiter his class currently ranks 2nd in the AAC
They are average in offensive box score stats and below average in advanced stats. What turned me off the most is SMU's run game is No. 82 nationally. Morris wants to run the ball.
There are circumstances to every situation, and the team and program Morris inherited was plenty bad.
If Morris is the hire, I'm fine with it.
I don't think we can stress enough that they were basically the worst college football team in the country last year, being 82nd in the run game is a huge improvement.
FEI had them ranked DEAD LAST in 2014 for offense. Getting them to 75th is more than impressive in one year with the lack of talent they have
S&P+ was 123 last year and 65th this year.
It should be noted that SMU's "trainwreck" Offense ranks several spots higher than ours in S&P+
Tech's offense isn't very good either.
I said it above and on the podcast I recorded, but again I would give Morris the benefit of the doubt based on his production at Clemson and the mess he inherited at SMU. The lack of production on offense at SMU is a con right now.
In other news, there should be some sort of official scale for rating terrible offenses (things). Is a dumpster fire better or worse than a trainwreck, are both worse than a hot mess?
For me, hot mess << dumpster fire << trainwreck
To me, Hot mess is the least concerning. That's like one bad game, maybe two. When you wake up the morning after drinking too many rails, and you're in a rush to get to an 8am class, you're a hot mess. It really sucks, but you'll get through it.
Dumpster Fire is somewhat concerning. It has the potential to become worse, but for now it's contained in a dumpster. It's like when you fail your first engineering class. It really sucks, and you have to get your shit together, but it's just one class. You can still redeem yourself.
A trainwreck is when the goal has been completely derailed. Lives could be lost. Expensive things get broken. I would classify UVA football as a trainwreck. No chance of success.
How is it a Con to move up sixty spots in your offensive ranking with inferior players that you didn't recruit and a lower quality coaching staff? I think by almost any reasonable metric that shows Morris's tremendous ability as an offensive coach and should be a plus not a con.
Also keep in mind Fuente has been at Memphis for several years with an NFL quality quarterback, and Houston wasn't in bad shape when Herman took over. SMU was ranked 120 or worse in every category per S&P in 2014
Morris' improvement of the existing talent is a plus, but the overall offensive result is anywhere from middle of the pack to mediocre. What would be nice to have is next season's data from a Morris coached SMU offense. That's an unrealistic scenario with regards to Tech hiring a head coach this season. I can't endorse his offensive production at SMU this season (hence the con), but his stint at Clemson gives him the benefit of the doubt.
Edit: I've enjoyed the back-and-forth in this thread.
Agree to disagree. Taking the worst offense in the country to mediocrity with the same players in one year is a huge plus for me and a lot of people
They didn't look horrible tonight, that defense though...
Well no one ever said Morris was a defensive great! Hopefully he would retain Bud
Let me say up front I don't know if Morris is the right guy, or A right guy. But I think you have to evaluate him in the context of the hand he was dealt. That's the only way to make close to an apples to apples comparison between a stable of candidates in very different situations.
With Richt you rightly state that he has, at the end of the day, underachieved. Given the talent he recruits and the resources he has at his disposal, he should have won an NC by now. And yet he not only hasn't, but his teams underperform when compared to their recruiting level. And they've been dropping steadily since UGa traded blows with Bama for the SEC Championship.
If you apply that same standard to Morris - performance relative to talent - he has clearly OVER achieved. In one year, with the same talent, he improved his offensive productivity and effectiveness by leaps and bounds. Clearly there are a lot of other variables at play, like quality of competition, but relative performance is all we have to work with. And you can say the same about Fuentes and Herman. The three of them have a track record of doing more with less, and that for me is their biggest 'pro.'
The worst thing you can say about Morris - Clemson fan disapproval notwithstanding - is that even though his offense has improved tremendously, the jury's still out on everything else. The Morris-Herman-Fuentes comparison might be the most apples to apples, so based on the additional win-loss factor, Herman and Fuentes are head and shoulders over Morris. But truth be told, I would rather have Morris than Richt, because Richt simply does less with more - the situation we are in right now.
I think Richt is genuinely a decent guy but he is not a splash hire. Surprising? Perhaps. He has not proven to be able to cultivate the competitive edge needed to get us where want to go imo.
I think it says a lot that he couldn't win the SEC east this year. He had more talent on his roster than any team in that division. Florida might be loaded on defense, but an 'offensive-minded' coach like Richt should be able to score more than 3 points.
List of active coaches with higher winning percentages than Mark Richt:
Good point. Hard Pass on Richt, not enough success for us............................................................
There really should be a formal scale. As far as I can gather from the interweb:
hot mess < garbage fire < dumpster fire < trainwreck < tire fire < nuclear crater < nuclear apocalypse
... < steaming pile of Hoo
and he's doing this without his own recruiting class
I agree. SMU has actually been very competitive in the first half of most of their games before getting rolled. Considering they were never even competitive for the last few years I think it's been a marked improvement.
In all these posts, I've seen nothing to turn me away from Rhule. Maybe it's just because I'm from Philly and have followed Temple for most of my life, but I have to admit I would be very happy if he came to Blacksburg
I would not be mad. I would still prefer Herman or Fuente, but if we got Rhule I'd be pretty pumped
His offense is pretty bad that seems to go against the idea of Bud+Offensive minded head coach
I tend to agree, if we go this route we're gonna have to hit a homerun with our OC hire
What the reply commenters have said and also just like with all of his other compatriots in that new generation of successful coaches (Fuente, Herman, etc.) it's a high risk/high reward situation. I'm not saying he would be a bad, or even mediocre hire, but the risk is there.
Amazing job, Joe. Well done on the quick analysis.
It still concerns me that there are several other schools looking to make the same splash hire after the season, but these all sound like we have some sort of connection, at the least.
Just one thing.... Why did we not put French up there as a candidate?
Addazios QB issues may have cost him this opportunity. If Wade doesn't get hurt and they are at .500, he would be a very valid candidate. Now his team is on pace for a 3-9 season, tough for Whit to sell. Funny what 2 or 3 wins could mean.
It's definitely a balance of perception and coaching ability. Truth be told, Addazio might be the best fit, but he's a tough sell.
To me, the recipe for success is clear.
Hire an offensive minded head coach who is a good recruiter. Find a way to keep Bud. The offense improves under the new guy and Foster is given better talent (improving the defense). That is the quickest way to get this program back to 10 wins and beyond.
Richt is #1 on my list, but I wonder if he will take some time off or just retire outright. Reminds me of Bill McCartney.
It may also be difficult for him to pick VT over Miami when they are both open.
I feel like VT is much closer to the Georgia environment than Miami. He doesn't strike me as a Miami coach.
There's a lot of UGA fans that don't think he's Georgia material either...
I don't think he fits in with Miami's culture at all. Plus again, going from, what I assume, great facilities, strong fan support, and a great conference to a mediocre conference, a crappy fan base that wants every year to be 2001 or before and horrible facilities. VT is a much better fit IMO for Richt.
Richt's personality pairing with Miami....
Somehow I don't think that would work out at all.... At all
It would make for a good realty show.
Is he selling a house?
Agreed, but he's an alum. Tough to turn them down for a rival.
I like that idea. I really hope we get a strong recruiter
why not make bud the HC and get a young offensive coach that's ready to make the leap to OC? Assistants normally do the heavy lifting on recruiting anyway.
#bringbackAMOasOC
Unfortunately history doesn't support this. All of the 5* and 4* that were "locks" but we lost at the end had a home visit by an energetic head coach.
Locks according to whom?
I don't know about "locks", but certainly VT was favored in a few of those, and they didn't get closed out.
In that case, we can't judge how bad or good Bud has actually been on the recruiting trail, can we?
i meant for college football in general, not for VT specifically. when rivals puts out top recruiters, it's not head coaches on that list.
To me you just described Mark Richt. Seems like a lot of people on here want a splash hire from the AAC, but in my mind if you have a coach with Richt's pedigree his floor is their ceiling. Sounds like he would keep Bud on as the DC (win) and I think it's unfair to assume that he couldn't change his perception as an underachiever in a new situation.
Frank Beamer has historically gotten better results with lesser talent. Richt has done the opposite - he's recruited well, but his teams did not live up to their recruiting rankings. Additionally, the bulk of Richt's experience has either at FSU (QB coach/OC, 1990-2000) or UGA (HC, 2001 - present). GA and FL are probably two of the four best high school recruiting states in the nation.
This raises two questions:
I am more confident that a "splash hire from the AAC" could develop talent than I am in Richt doing so. Is it possible that the spot light could be too big for Herman or Fuente? Sure, it's possible, but neither seemed to struggle with the lime light at OSU or TCU, respectively. Is it possible that Richt could come to Bburg and have a second awakening? Sure. However, I'm more confident in Herman or Fuente succeeding here than I am Richt.
I'm sure there is a fair amount of "tribal knowledge" of how to get the most out of the unheralded recruits. Beamer will still have an affect on the program in his role as special assistant to the AD.
If Bud sticks around this also contributes to the cohesiveness of the culture of developing the lower profile recruits. Looking back over the past few years, most of these lower ranked recruits that played above their ranking were on the defensive side of the ball.
I think it's two parts:
I'm sure other coaches could cultivate similar relationships with coaches. However, bullet one is a concern (on offense and defense) if the scheme(s) require 5 star talent.
That is the argument against Richt, the lack of player development. In my mind if he maintained a lot of the defensive staff a lot of player development could continue to happen on that side of the football as it has in the past. The biggest question mark would be who he would select as the offensive coordinator. Mike Bobo was the thorn in UGA fans side for years (equally as hated as our Stinespring) and Brian Schottenheimer's NFL experience hasn't helped him light the world on fire through two months.
I really like both of the coaches that you mentioned in Herman and Fuente and think both would be great hires here. My only trepidation would be the assumption that their current success against top 25 teams is sustainable moving forward. Did they rally their teams for the one big game on the schedule or do they play like that every week? I haven't watched enough of either team to know the answer to that and I would love to hear your take on it.
Very much agree, but again, you can't hire a head coach with the intent/assumption/request that he keep certain staff on. The OC question is also valid - but they might be suffering from a personnel problem this year, after all their starter was a transfer from UVA.
First of all, I want to preface this comment by saying that it is significantly easier to poke a hole in every candidates resume than pick a clear cut favorite. Anyways, I haven't watched more than one game from either team either. However, there seems to be a common formula these day: Success as Coordinator under universally respected/talented coach + success as HC at Mid-major = success at P5 position.
Tom Herman:
Mentor: Urban Meyer
Coordinator Success: Won NC
Head Coach Success: Undefeated at Houston, team had 5 losses in prior season
Justin Fuente:
Mentor: Gary Paterson
Coordinator Success: Undefeated Season & Rose Bowl win
Head Coach Success: Inherited a team that had 5 wins in 3 seasons. 3 season later, that team is undefeated.
Both coaches follow this mold. I lean towards Fuente because he has build a program and created a winning culture. This might be the hardest thing for a coach to do in college football.
I feel like a teenage girl that has just gone through her first breakup. Everywhere I look something reminds me of Frank.
I don't even see how Richt has a low ceiling either. Dude has been a stalwart in the top 10 the last few years. How many weeks has Fuente been ranked in the top 10.
Richt is high floor, high ceiling, high character, big recruiter. Isn't that what we want?
I think the ceiling question is that he is at UGA, which as noted, is a top 5 program resource wise, and they are averaging just over 4 losses a year the past 6 1/2 years, in a not so great division... what makes anyone think he could get the same recruits in Blacksburg that he gets in UGA, and if not, can he develop the talent he is able to get here?
Some of the other people mentioned have been able to recruit and succeed with less resources than VT has, so it seems to reason that with our resources they could succeed here
Richt has 8 top 10 finishes in 14 seasons. That's a pretty high fucking ceiling.
.... at UGA. Can he get the same caliber recruits to VT, and if not, can he develop the players he is able to get?
Uh, yes?
He's got a pretty long history of being a high quality football coach.
Richt's recruiting is helped by the fact that Georgia is a top 3 producer of football talent and they have no in state competition. He's had all sorts of talent and hasn't put it together in 15 years. Sure, he's got a high floor, but when he's had a straight flush, he's folded each time. I like the guy, but I'm not sold on him.
Richt's recruiting is helped by the fact that Georgia is a top 3 producer of football talent and they have no in state competition.
So he should do really well with the recruits in Virginia since we have no in state competition.
Sure, he could probably improve our in-state recruiting, but Georgia has far better recruits than VA as a whole. But he got all those great players and what did he do with them? The 6 division championships over 15 years are nice, but only 2 SEC Championships? I think Richt would bring us back to winning our division and competing for the ACC annually. 8 wins is a floor for him, probably more like 9, but I think his ceiling is an ACC Championship. Again, I like the guy and I don't think he's the worst, but he's not the best either.
Interesting look at Georgia over the Richt era.
Georgia recruiting class per 247: 2016 (#7 right now), 2015 (#5), 2014 (#8) , 2013 (#12), 2012 (#8), 2011 (#6), 2010 (#11), 2009 (#5), 2008 (#7), 2007 (#9), 2006 (#3), 2005 (#6), 2004 (#7), 2003 (#9), 2002 (#9), 2001 (#10)
Georgia's record over that time frame: 2015 (5-3), 2014 (10-3), 2013 (8-5), 2012 (12-2), 2011 (10-4), 2010 (6-7), 2009 (8-5), 2008 (10-3), 2007 (11-2), 2006 (9-4), 2005 (10-3), 2004 (10-2), 2003 (11-3), 2002 (13-1), 2001 (8-4)
so... added benefit of Richt potentially getting some of that number 7 class to jump ship with him, a la Buzz Williams?
Yeah, I really really don't get the Richt infatuation on these boards. He's safe, but he seems to me like he has the lowest ceiling of any of the seriously considered candidates. I worry he's already peaked.
Well, ODU just came up to FBS.
Looking at you Georgia Tech....
How's that Burn feel?
I'm mostly referring to recruiting competition rather than on the field competition. As long as Paul Johnson is running the show at GT, they will not get top flight recruits. They get system recruits and it works for them. But they are not considered attractive by recruits in the state of Georgia. So Georgia can take all the recruits in the state and sell them on the "staying home" and "play for a team in the SEC" pitches to go with the "you can help us win a national championship" line. It's a perfect recipe for success that coaches other than Richt can continue to pitch. As long as Paul Johnson is at Georgia Tech, I firmly believe that Georgia is one of the top jobs for a HC right now. And that's my biggest issue with Richt. Success is literally on a silver platter for them but they still haven't reached the pinnacle of it with Richt.
I agree Richt is not the right guy. I would like to think I'm wrong if we got him though lol
You won't hear me complain about us getting Richt. I think he'd do just fine for us. He'd improve recruiting and bring us back to competing at the top of the ACC, but I think we can do better.
I agree with what you are saying concerning the recruiting differences between UGA and GT. I was just having some fun at Georgia Tech's expense.
I agree. So that narrows the field substantially - Fuentes, Herman, Morris, Richt, who else.
And you can narrow it further if you pick the spread over pro style scheme - Fuentes, Herman, Morris.
Rich Rodriguez, Arizona head coach
Cons:
Seems like a childish overreaction, maybe? I didn't move to Canada when either Bush was elected. 'Murica. Hokies. #unite
first. Politics = no-no
second. why canada? if I was going to move anywhere out of dissatisfaction with America's economy/government I'd move o Switzerland, probably.
third. RR sucks
I felt Frank should have been president instead.
There are a lot of people that feel similar to French...
"There's a possibility to enrage West Virginia fans." Love it.
We need to keep this in mind:
The next coaching staff must respect what Frank built. Period!
I borrowed this from a Mike Rose tweet - apparently his brother does these - this one pretty much captures our thoughts this week (props to where they are due). I'm just the messenger.
Way ta hit me right in the feels....
Gonna miss you Coach Beamer, no one can ever replace you :'(
If Richt couldn't win a championship with SEC recruits and resources, can't believe he would be able to do it at Tech.
Can't imagine we would hire Fedora, or that he would succeed here. See: UNC's consistent appearance in preseason rankings, lack of appearance in final Top 25.
Agree 100% with your assessment of Richt.
If we are only considering people who have won Natties, let me tell ya, we aren't hiring anyone lol.
Which wasn't what he said at all.
Can't win one there, can't win one here. Boils down to that. I disagree with that assessment.
I don't know, keep in mind that Richt was in the SEC, so while he had that advantage for recruiting, he also had that as a disadvantage in winning. Granted his teams did sometimes under-perform, but still. He would be a solid hire in my opinion, and he and Bud combined just might be able to get over the hump.
Yes Richt was in the SEC...East. which is comparable to the ACC Atlantic. Georgia and Florida are supposed to dominate that side. South Carolina filled in for UF when Urban skipped town. The rest of that division is laughable. All of the Championship teams (besides Florida) from the SEC are in the West. Georgia had the easiest track to the SEC Championship game after Urban left UF and Richt made it there, what, once? twice maybe?
Give me Bud or give me death
Richt-Foster would be epic. Also who wouldn't come out 2016 hyped AF for this?
#totes hyped.
We'd have a someone who could go toe-to-toe with Dabo,Jimbo and whoever Miami hires for recruites, and maybe UVA, if they somehow can adjust their finances, they have some serious back-pay debt for past (soon to be past) coaches.
Didn't Frank insinuate/flat out admit that Pep was his choice for OC in his book? Something like (paraphrasing) "We had an OC from a school out west who wanted to come back to this area, then he got an NFL offer"?
EDIT: Also, I can't agree with this comment enough:
1 - if you're going to go after Morris for his offense this year, you have to do the same to Bud in the way his defense has been tailing off. This year we are losing games because of the defense. This is as worrisome a trend as the SMU situation.
2 - Richt is a splash hire. I don't think he will be the splash hire. I think we will go shockingly big with the hire, but I also think the coach will be a wild card we aren't even talking about right now.
3 - Fedora would be great purely because of what UNC did in trying to steal Frank away from us. The ultimate 'you are beneath us' message across their bow if we could just have him on the final list of candidates, even if we don't intend to hire. Because screw UNC.
Retaining Bud would be nice, but nowhere near essential for me. I may prefer giving that job to Gray so he could keep DBU together and tweak Fosters defense.
If the next head coach does not keep Bud, there is no way they keep Gray.
If a new head coach already has their own DC, that DC / New head coach is going to have their own DBs coach.
What makes you think keeping Gray and making him DC and not Bud at any role is at all possible in this situation what so ever???
Age/seniority stuff. If you hire one of the G5 forty year olds, Bud won't stay. He would stay for Richt or RichRod or Morris maybe. So if you hire Herman, Bud is gone.
Then a guy like Herman needs a DC. Gray is ready to be. DC, can keep the DBS together and would be willing to coach under a less experienced coach than Bud. Gray would make a lot of sense then as DC.
Curious what you are basing this on
Age/seniority stuff. Bud has only worked for a guy 15 years his senior. He's not going to stay on his job for a guy 15 years his younger if Bud doesn't know and respect the guy. Especially if Bud has options.
I have no idea if Bud knows any of these people personally, or his personal feelings towards any of them... if you do I'd love to hear
Haven't seen it mentioned like we have with Buds relationships with Richt, RichRod and Morris. I assume there is no relationship until we hear otherwise.
It's just a theory, if you don't agree, that's fine.
If Gray stays, he stays as a position coach. Not unusual. Beamer kept Hite around, but didn't promote him to OC.
You know what else would send a "you are beneath us" message? Having the most points on Nov 21.
Or beating unc and THEN hiring Fedora as an assistant coach, or some such.
And THEN having Buzz slap Roy Williams with a VT diploma after we smack them down in the Dean Dome, and having Roy throw up his hands and say 'you got me with that one.'
Awesome write up. Made me feel a little better about a possible Richt hire too. I see him in a similar respect as to what people said about Beamer, great guy but just can't seem to get over the hump. At least Beamer got us to the national championship once. We've been more recently than UGA has. Although I'm not sure if comparing conference championship wins equals out though. Winning SEC Championships in the SEC is hard and I would argue harder than the ACC. I mean when we are up to our standard we are expecting at least a trip to the ACC championship game. So part of me thinks it would be easier for him to win in the ACC but then again how would that translate into the playoffs and such. And if UGA had as many SEC Championships in as much time as we've had ACC Championships i bet he wouldn't be on the hot seat.
Super excited about our next hire though as long as it's not Rich Rod, or Pep Hamilton. I agree with Joe on this one. At one point I would have been stoked to have him as an OC but I'm not really looking to have him as our HC. Now if a new HC wants to hire him as the next OC??? I've got no problem with that.
I just can't see Foster staying if he gets passed over for the big chair nor do I see too many head coaches agreeing to keep half of a prior staff.
The only one I see someone keeping is Shane to stay as recruiting coordinator / special teams coach to make Frank happy and keep 1 constant member, aka Billy Hite.
It's kinda funny how we all think Mark Richt, former Miami Hurricane QB, would be more likely to come here than go back to Miami. Given his history, it seems like he'd be more likely to coach Miami than Tech.
Even though he's a guy from Miami, he doesn't exactly come off as a Miami guy. Plus, if he's tired of getting shit from Georgia fans, I kinda doubt he'd be pumped about a fanbase that will pay to have banner planes calling for their coach to be fired.
Yeah, but since he went to Miami, he knows what goes on at Miami.
I am certainly not a Miami fan but whoever designed this shirt must be an owner of a salt mine. With that said, I lol'd.
Based on the Buzz hire I am guessing whit gets Someone none of us thought of that is still a great pickup. Whit has my trust for meow
I'm sorry, are you saying meow?
Why would I say Meow, do I look like a cat?
Am I drinking milk out of a saucer?
via GIPHY
Do you see me jumpin around all nimbly bimbly from tree to tree??
I'm a front line soldier in the "NO RICH RODRIGUEZ" army. If by chance Whit actually reads TKP, then I say "Whit, you're awesome. Do NOT hire Rich Rodriguez. Also, thanks for the afternoon games".
So I have brought this name up before and have since decided that we really are a program that could hire just about anyone we have sites on realistically. I think our program is that attractive for so many of the reasons mentioned. However...were we to look for the unheralded "get", the bargain, the guy who slipped in the draft... my money is on KURT ROPER
The guy isn't just from the Cutcliffe tree he is the whole root ball practically! Coached Eli as a QB coach when he was at Ole Miss under Cutcliffe. Offensive assistant in the SEC since 1996 with the exception of Assistant Head Coach at Duke '08-13...under Cutcliffe. Brought them out of Mediocrity and recruited phenomenally. Played halFSU in 13 ACC Championship game and lost but got Duke there. Sean Renfree, Jamison Crowder and bringing Jake McGhee to Florida from lolUVA was all him. Currently with the Cleveland Browns, after 19 years previously in college football I doubt he wants to be in the NFL. Only 43 years old, has a Masters, could get him on the cheap and take a seemingly smart calculated risk with a very well seasoned high level assistant now with a year of NFL experience.
If it isn't a current head coach I like this guy a lot. 2 young kids to raise along with Buzz in idyllic Blacksburg. Yes Please.
I agree that he has a fairly lengthy resume, but I think the biggest fear for a guy like this, a pep Hamilton, or a Kirby smart type is that they haven't ever been the big whistle.
You mention that you think we can realistically get most anyone that we set our sights on, so why would we roll the dice? I know nothing about this guy, and maybe would be a great head coach, but I don't know if I'm a fan of someone cutting their teeth in Blacksburg.
An unknown for sure and a gamble not having HC experience, I am just torn on peeling off someone elses HC and the loyalty that shows. Of those names though Herman is my #1. Not Richt and RiRod less every day.
Great Herman article
Then I said that the people who don't win, they get cubicles, the hoopty ride, the not-so-hot wife.
That article just underscores how much I want Herman here. He gets it. Everyone should strive to win in any facet of life.
that reminds me of this
Bud is the man for the job. There is no way we keep him otherwise. He was already disrespected when Shane was named associate head coach. Bud put in the time and has earned this. The worst that happens is we're mediocre for 3 years and then we move on, but Bud deserves a shot.
It seems I found another Wes
Look, no mention of French? The list is bogus. Sigh.
What about Shane? He has more head coaching experience than a lot of guys on the list and he is undefeated.
I say this only half sarcastically because I think if you could ignore his last name he is nearly a perfect fit for what we want, only a few years early.
1 game of head coaching experience, 0 total games of combined DC/OC .. not sure what would make him head coach material for a power 5 school.
Can't manage a RB rotation, but you want him to manage the team?
That's the rub though. Shane needs to go earn his chops at a smaller school. Season him up a bit.
Its going to be very interesting to see how teams in the SEC handle their current situations, especially with coaches at both UGA and Auburn underperforming as well as Texas A&M and LSU not being able to get over the hump with their current staffs. I've heard people at LSU are becoming frustrated with Les Miles since he hasn't really won anything since they won the natty in 2007 and his inability to beat Alabama since the "Game of the Century".
Interesting thought about Miles, not for VT specifically. But where is LSU without Ferenette? Just another underperforming LSU team.
Probably a 1 loss SEC team at the moment. Florida might be undefeated.
Speaking of which, Florida made a pretty good hire this off season. Hiring a coach from a 'mid-major' who was previously an OC under another highly regarded coach. Sounds kind of like Fuente or Herman, no?
Lots of models for success. I would be very happy with Herman or Fuente. Less happy with Morris, but it would be ok. Richt is the clear best choice to me. My current top 5:
1. Richt
2. Herman
3. Smart
4. Fuente
5. Morris
Why Smart so high (I know we're having another conversation about him somewhere in this thread) - Just curious why you like him more than Fuente?
In the back of my mind, I have some very slight reservations on Fuente that he may have lucked into Paxton Lynch. He really didn't recruit Lynch at all, just accepted him sight unseen as a last scholarship offer. Lynch is great. Dalton was great. It's chicken/egg, but sometimes a great QB hides a lot (bustle/Vick).
And Fuente was a good coordinator relatively recently, but not on par with where Smart is right now. I think Smart very well may be the best assistant in the country right now.
Edit: I forgot Harsin, who I love and believe could be had (only making $1.2m). I would regroup it as Richt if you can get him, otherwise interview Herman, Harsin, Fuente, Smart, Morris and Bud and make a selection.
Harsin is also coaching at his Alma Mater - hard to pull someone away from that sometimes.
I'm in total agreement with you. I'd be happy with any of these 5 guys.
I would like to think about Smart a little more. I immediately dismissed him because he's Bud, but at Bama. But he's better than Bud as a DC, a stellar recruiter and his defense preps players for the NFL, which helps bring in top talent.
He's inexperienced, but not significantly less than the G5 forty year olds. He's waited on the right HC spot, not taken one with challenges like SMU, Memphis or Temple. I don't fault him for that.
And if you look at other successful coaches who came with no HC experience, it would be guys like Jimbo, Dabo, Mullen, Richt, stoops, Gundy, shaw, Helfrich, whittlingham, fitzgerald. Everybody had their first job at some point.
If I was Whit, I would like to talk to him to hear his offensive plan. I don't think holding on to Bud is a requirement by any means. He could be a huge success, he's probably the best assistant coach in the country under the best coach.
Highly debated. Bud has fielded similar quality defenses with significantly lesser (recruited) talent.
Recruiting is half the job. If the talent isn't here for Bud to compete, that's his fault.
I agree regarding the importance of recruiting, but Bud is competing, despite the lesser recruiting. Our defense has been pretty stout the past decade, this year and 2010 aside.
Yes, he is competing, and doing a fine job.. but he is also partially responsible for the lackluster recruiting
If Bud and Kirby were both free agents right now and interviewed for the same job, who gets it?
I don't think there's a clear cut favorite at all. I think Smart has better name recognition nationally, especially to fans out of touch with our program/conference, but I believe both are mentioned in the same breath by college football experts. I'd wager they have put similar amounts of players in the NFL.
To answer your question, probably Smart. I think it's an easier to sell to fans, and I think the Saban 'coaching tree' is appealing. But I would hardly be shocked if a school picked Foster over Smart.
For sure, it's close. Just looking at FEI since 2009 (when Smart became DC), looks like Bama has been ahead most years, never lower than 16th. I think vt was better in 13 and 14. Clearly won't be in 15.
Both good DCs, looks like Smart is statistically a little better, younger and improving. I don't think I said anything outrageous.....this time.
Virginia Tech isn't getting Alabama talent. Ever. Maybe one or two guys, but not a whole roster. To say Foster should be getting the guys Smart gets is completely dismissing the resources Bud has
It would nice to get the Bama talent from Virginia as a start.
Sure would..
The times have changed. We're no longer guaranteed VA talent just because we're closer. We're not the same type of program as Alabama, it should not be surprising that Bud hasn't recruited as well as them.
I'm surprised that we still see people who concede the talent issue. If you do, you have to also concede the top 10 program issue.
My prediction is that Georgia fires Richt and hires Smart
RR- Meh, good coach, but unstable IMO.
Butch Jones- I'd be in for that move, but it won't happen. UT is right on the edge of being a very good football team. They're taking teams to the wire which reflects their youth IMO. Another year and they'll be near the top of the SEC East. And believe me, it pains me to say that.
Larry Fedora- Nope. Not interested in UNC retreads.
Richt- Yes
Fuentes- Yes
Herman- Yes
Kirby Smart- Yes, but I wonder if he'll have the necessary recruiting success at VT.
Foster- Undecided. I think he's a great DC, and with a cupboard full of 4*'s he can give you a shutdown D. My problem involves the requirements of a HC. I just don't know enough about him in that regard to say yes or no.
UT is going to finish 8-4 this year and start next year in the top 15. Maybe Butch is tired of all the Rednecks in Knoxville, but otherwise, a move to VT doesn't make much sense
I think the search ends with Curt Newsome! /s
Why has PJ Fleck been taken off all the lists? He was one of the most frequent names tossed around at the beginning of the season. If he wins the next 3 weeks against the better MAC competition he's gotta be lumped in with the Rhule, Campbell conversation
I second this.
I think P.J. Fleck would be an amazing hire. What he's done to that program in Kalamazoo in such a short amount of time is almost impossible, and his "Row the Boat" mantra fits well with the lunchpail mentality Beamer & Co. have instilled in the program.
Everybody loves Dabo Swinney. This is the type of head coach that will stick with a program for the long haul - the relentless recruiters and motivators who hire good coordinators and let them do their job.
My dream scenario = hire P.J. for cheaper than some of these other names floating around, spend that extra money on bringing Pep Hamilton in as offensive coordinator, keep Bud to ensure he keeps doing Bud things, move Shane Beamer to a special teams/recruiting coordinator hybrid role, and bring in Lee Suggs to take over the running backs coaching position.
These dudes already make an awesome pair - imagine them recruiting together.
If he can't keep his phone charged more than that, how can we trust him to be VT head football coach?
"This is a guy who lives on the edge, a guy who isn't afraid to take chances." -- Kirk Herbstreit, probably.
Everybody knows you only post important info with a low battery.
Also they've had the best recruiting class in the MAC for a couple years now. I guess his only real knock is that he hasn't been a high level coach at a big program before
That and he doesn't keep his phone charged
Sounds like this could be a huge problem when it comes to recruiting... Gonna need more battery to snapchat all of our recruits.
Maybe the battery is dead BECAUSE of all the snapchatting. Or Tinder
What about Bryan Harsin? I know he would be a foreigner to the East Coast but I think he would be a solid hire.
Bruce Arians anyone?
Maybe Joe should add his name to the Mega Board.
Pros:
-is a Hokie
-NFL coach
-coaching a good Arizona team right now
Cons:
-coaching a good Arizona team right now
-only six years younger than Beamer
-hasn't even been close to the college game since 1997
No to Richt. Isn't he 55 or so? Wouldn't we completely reverse fields with a younger energetic guy? Are we going to pay anyone $5 mil to start? Sounds unrealistic honestly.
They say VT is willing to pony up he money this time around and is willing to go for it with the right guy.
They say...#sauces?
So what if I say Whit has already been talking to candidates for a month in the names of Fuente, Herman, Rodriguez, Riecht and Miles...Yea I said Miles. Has already talked to them. The same source also said Miles contacted Whit. That would be interesting to say the least. Take it for what it's worth. This person has been pretty knowing in the past. I don't have any reason to doubt them...yet. Always a first though.
Riecht? haha
LOL Miles!?!?
that would be somethin'
Let's leave health speculation off here.
It's clear that the throat issue was more serious than we were led to believe or that perhaps anyone expected.
Bringing up these things things, however, is very serious and IMO unfounded. It also implies that Frank's mental ability to coach is in question. There is no basis for this and I agree that stuff like this is inappropriate to put out in this forum.
It doesn't really matter how "close" your #source is to the program., it's never appropriate to propagate information regarding someones health when they themselves have not made it public. Maybe, if Frank actually is unhealthy, he wants to keep that a secret. It's not very respectful of you or your #source to share that information if Frank hasn't shared it himself. Especially on an on-line message board which gets thousands of hits daily. That is seriously disrespectful and irresponsible.
You should be ashamed for that alone.Thank you for deleting that section.Just because someone has heard something from more than one #source doesn't make it okay for them to share that information with thousands. What if what they've heard are just educated guesses and they're unknowingly sharing incorrect information. That's even worse. They should never discuss anyone's private lives in a public forum no matter how certain they are that the information is accurate.
First question were any of those people Frank Beamer himself? Second question are you a physician? Specifically one treating Frank Beamer? If you answered no to all three of those questions then you are just spewing rumors and speculation.
edit
Correct but unless they are that physican they would have no information regarding his health unless Frank told him.
Sure, maybe it was cancer, but I'm sure there was a reason why he didn't just come out and say it too. Give the man the respect he deserves and the privacy to keep his personal health issues to himself. They don't affect you at all, so to bring them up is just to cause a stir. And the dementia comment? Seriously, stuff like that is even further speculation since diagnosis is nowhere near certain.
No problem. Never said it was absolute truth. Just what I been told. That's why I said take it for what it's worth. I will keep the the information I get in he future off this site. Jumping all over me like I'm the worst person in the world for sharing what I have been told seems a bit much. You guys get so excited when it's something you wanna hear but criticize someone when it's not and judge them. He's the highest paid employee in the state of Virginia and put himself in the public eye not me. I was simply stating what I've been told. The admin should have removed it and sent me a message stating not to put it out there. Instead we have the morality police telling people what they judge to be right and wrong and putting them down for simply making a statement.
I'm telling you now not to put stuff like this out there.
Joe can delete the content if he wants, or you can remove it yourself by editing your content.Frank is a public figure, yes, but that does not remove his right to privacy.EDIT: thank you for removing that.
Your welcome. I wasn't trying to offend anyone. All of everything I said concerning that has been deleted and I would appreciate others going back and doing the same in reference to mentioning what I said.
Your welcome. I wasn't trying to offend anyone. All of everything I said concerning that has been deleted and I would appreciate others going back and doing the same in reference to mentioning what I said.
You didn't get downvoted so you didn't get jumped all over. This board is mostly community policed and we have stated our rationally for not wanting you to speculate on ANYONES health on here.
I apologize and promise it will not happen again. Like I said wasn't trying to offend anyone.
Well Miles would definitely be that crazy, out of nowhere hire that nobody expects
I'm holding out that Les Miles can replace Lee Corso on GameDay when he retires. Headgear....Mad Hatter...it fits.
Or Miles will replace Spurrier who will replace Corso.
Wow, Les Miles? That totally would be an out of left-field type of hire. Why would Miles want to leave LSU and the best RB in the last ten years though? He's not exactly a spring chicken himself (61), so would he really fit the bill? Being a Michigan man, would he be inclined to keep Loeffler onboard? What about Bud and the rest of the staff? Coaching speculation is fun.
Whenever a big-name coach like this is mentioned at a less-prestigious program, the argument always seems to center around "Why would he take a step down like that?". To me, the answer is simple: to prove he can. Lots of coaches can win big in places like Baton Rouge and Tuscaloosa. It takes a tremendous coach to do it in Blacksburg. If you're an a-list college football coach, you pretty much have to be a type A personality and a person who thrives on accomplishing the impossible. Another reason he might consider such a move might be that he's getting older and might not have the energy to deal with all the pressures of such a high-profile job. It can't be enjoyable to deal with the expectations of a fanbase like LSU's. One loss to Alabama, and everyone in the state is calling for your head on a silver platter.
That said, I don't see it happening. If he didn't jump ship for Michigan when they ditched Hoke, I really don't see him leaving LSU voluntarily unless he's ready to retire. I don't think he passed on the opportunity to go back to his alma mater just so he could wait for Beamer to retire and come here. I don't pretend to understand what goes through the mind of a guy as crazy as Les Miles, but I'm pretty sure that's not it.
Well, we're known for having one of the nicer playing surfaces out there, and a fantastic grounds-keeping crew.
Maybe Les is looking to expand his palette.
I agree to a certain extent but like you said in your comment if he had grown tired of the pressure in BR and still wants to coach and maybe prove to the neysayers that he is a great coach.....then why not try BBurg knowing he can't go to Michigan now. Might just want less pressure. It would be interesting for sure lol
As with most big time colleges, its about fans complaining that he isn't winning enough. This year changed that perception back again, but he might be fed up with the expectations there.
Bud HC
Gray/Wiles DC
Young hotshot recruiter OC
Seems to me we need recruiting for the whole team.
So you keep Bud at DC, and get a hotshot OC-minded HC.
Realistically, who do you think would be able to keep Bud as DC? I think Richt would have the best chance of that, but if Bud is passed over for HC I have to wonder if there is any coach out there he would stick around for.
For me, getting the right HC is more important than the right DC.
Exactly. WHY would Bud stay? He displays a long term commitment to a school and creates a marquee, successful defense, and gets passed over for a youngster with "potential". Why does he stay? B/c he's lost the fire to become a HC? I just don't see it.
I'd like to throw my hat in the ring.
Pros: Hokie alum.
Cons: Everything else.
For me, it's Bud Foster. It's always been Bud Foster. The past 5 days or so I have wrestled with the thought of someone else as the head coach and it just doesn't feel right to me. Say what you will about Bud never being a HC or wondering if he has the personality to deal with the media, big donors, etc, or his lack of recruiting (VT is never going to get the talent that anOSU or Alabama get every year). Bud has dedicated so much of his life to VT and, IMO, has earned this. Give him 3 years to see what he can do. If it doesn't work out, then bring in a splashy hire. I'm just not sure I, or a lot of other Hokies, can deal with losing Frank Beamer and Bud Foster in the same year.
Big Mo is at the door now.
I'd go for the guy who Whit feels gives VT the best shot of making the leap to the next level.
Miss this opportunity, and in for years it will look like an accomplishment just to get back to where the team is right now.
The longer I've gone trying to wrap my brain around our whole situation, the more I keep pretty much coming back to this as my 'gut' feeling/desire.....I'm not saying its the 'best' move for VT in the long haul....but for me right now...I don't know..... I just cant divorce myself from this scenario......
I'm for Richt. He seems like the perfect "safe" but really good pick. So he didn't win a national championship at Georgia? He had to deal with Meyer, Saban and some bad luck (Auburn). Doubt he'd win one here too. But no one would win one here. Not now. But I bet he'd improve recruiting. Hopefully, he'd keep Foster for the D. And we could get 10 great years from him.
If the guy from Toledo was wanted by Urban and New England and he's young then that sounds like a very interesting route.
the article on him is pretty good. He stopped playing D1 football at Pitt because of their lack of want and desire in the game. He ended up at Mount Union D3 to play because of their intensity to work. that kind of attitude is exactly what is needed in a head coach. Sounds like he wouldn't put up with anyone taking a play off on or off the field, in the weight room or in practice. I like it.
All I know is that I wouldn't want to be in Whit's shoes.
Is al golden not in the mix?
Maybe I'm alone on this, but I wouldn't call Richt a splash hire. We can probably debate the criteria that comprises a "splash hire" but at minimum I think one of the requirements would be winning a conference championship in the last decade, right? I agree it would be a little bit of an unexpected hire to the casual fan, but honestly if UGA decides to let Richt go, would it even be surprising at that point to see an ACC team hire him?
Don't get me wrong, you're not going to find a nicer guy than Richt, and I would take him over some of the other names being mentioned. But this is not a hire that would excite me as a fan because Richt has consistently underperformed on the field given his program's position. Georgia is one of the most talent rich states in the country for high school prospects, and while Richt has done a good job getting highly rated prospects to come to UGA, that talent advantage hasn't translated to conference titles. UGA has now gone a full decade since their last SEC title, and they only have 2 division titles in that span. To put that in perspective, Missouri joined the SEC East in 2012 and already has 2 division titles. UGA should have dominated the SEC East when Urban Meyer left UF, but it never materialized.
Richt is a hybrid of a splash and safe hire
Whit's goal is to hire the coach that can get this program back into
A. The Top 25 within the next two years
B. Win the ACC in the next two - three years
C. Get to a BCS bowl game in the next three-four years
D. Win a national championship in the next three - seven years
We've all been VERY spoiled with Beamer, Foster, and the other consistent staff, and with especially Beamer being an alum. So regardless of who is picked, I think there's going to be a lot of disappointment (some moreso than others **cough, cough Rich Rodriguez cough, cough**), but in the end winning heals all. Looking at that timeline above, Foster's not that guy. Maybe five years ago he was, and had he left to go to another smaller school and come back now, then maybe. As much as I'd like to see Foster stay as the defensive coordinator, my hunch is that next Saturday will be his and the majority of the staff's last home game in Lane Stadium.
When Dabo Swinney was hired at Clemson, I said, "Who? That'll never work," and I couldn't have been more wrong. We need someone like that. Maybe even someone from Clemson's staff. The entire culture of the program is going to change and we all need to accept it. VT may become a 55-point scoring team and play no defense. Quite the opposite of what the last several years/decades have been around Blacksburg.
The only other name I'd add to this list of people Whit has to call is Bruce Arians. I'm sure he isn't going to walk away from an NFL contract tomorrow to come to Blacksburg. But if the pattern holds with the Cardinals, once they lose Palmer and Fitzgerald in another few years they'll be terrible. By then we may need a new HC.
By the time Arians is ready to leave the NFL, he'll be as old as Beamer is now.
On the RichRod topic... #Sauces within the athletic department say it is highly unlikely he will be hired as HC. But, with all #Sauces, take it with a grain of salt.
Well if Joe Schad says it, it probably has some truth. I would certainly think he has a better read and #Sauces on things like this. For the sake of all things Beamer, I hope this is true. I don't want anything to do with RichRod.
My USCe wife just texted me #sauces that Tom Herman is a serious contender for the Gamecocks.
( actually from 247 sports, FWIW)
if you have to salt your BBQ after applying your sauces, you're doing it wrong.
Possible "off the radar" candidate could be Dan Mullen down at Miss. State.
EDIT: Big fan of Mrs. Mullen as well:
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:11597567
I just feel like the Mullen family would be a great fit in Blacksburg.
Something else to throw out there. Mike London won a national championship at Richmond with someone else's recruits. Years later, we know what kind of coach Mike London is. I think we should caution ourselves heralding someone who is winning with players they didn't recruit.
Hey! It worked out for Larry in Miami....right?
A few names for Board 2.0 that I haven't seen mentioned much or at all:
Of this list, I find Shaw and Whittingham the most intriguing.
HARD pass. I'll take RichRod before Bert.
His wife can stay around though.
She's alright.
What? WHOSE WIFE IS THIS?
#outkickingyourcoverage
$$$$$
I lolsnorted in a work teleconference. Had to pass it off as a sneeze. Thanks for that.
I'll be right back......
After last night's OT win Bret Bielema says he's 'looking forward to hopping on the wife' after big win (accidentally)
I think I'd probably agree with that sentiment. Really just wanted to list some names who are off the radar that I could picture being willing to listen to Whit's pitch, if Whit was interested in them.
Shaw is a Stanford alum, I find hard to believe he would leave unless it was for the NFL.
You never know. Rich Rodriguez left his alma mater (WVU) for Michigan. Beamer almost left Tech for UNC at one point even though that would have been a lateral move at best. Working for your alma mater is a dream for a lot of people but there are a ton of other factors (program prestige, facilities, AD relationship, $, etc.) that impact a job decision.
Could Jeff Brohm at Western Kentucky be added to the long list? don't career backup QBs usually make good coaches? Just throwing it out there...
He's doing a very nice job at Western Kentucky. He could very well go on to a great coaching career, but at this point in his career, he would feel like a little bit of a reach for a top tier Power 5 program. He will get a shot in the next few years if he keeps up his current progress though. I could see a lower tier Power 5 program or a higher profile non-P5 program giving him a shot this offseason.
Thanks for mentioning Shaw, Whittingham and Dykes. All currently out west but could move east and figure it out. I would add Harsin to the "Woukd they move east?" list.
No thanks on Bert. Massive turdpattie
What if all this Rich Rod talk is Whit's strategy to get the Mob to Riot and re-call Frank's Retirement?
Best scenarions:
1) Bud Foster becomes head football coach. Pep Hamilton named OC. Torrian Gray becomes DC. Find a talented, energetic inside linebacker coach. (If Wiles would retire, my eyes would be all over JC Price from Marshall to become DL coach.)
Pros- continuity. I am sure Bud had input on the interest in Pep Hamilton. Good chance Searels (who Bud passionately promoted during the 2014 NOVA Hokie Club Chalk Talk) and maybe Burden would stay. Hamilton replaces the big loss of Aaron Moorehead in the DC/Maryland private school circuit.
Cons- Can Bud up the recruiting game in Blacksburg?
2) Any hire of Morris, Fuentes, or Herman would likely mean Foster stays.
Pros: Hot young coach. Sound offensive principles. Proven Recruiters. I think the Morris record at SMU is a misnomer. The offense (which was hot garbage last season) has improved and they decimated Baylor for a half. He has next to nothing to work with. Herman would be a GREAT fit with Lawson if he proves to be what the current staff thinks he can be.
Cons. You always worry about a coaches ability to be an executive and leader in a high profile situation with significant demands on their time. Fuentes and Morris worry me in that regard. Despite their success, they have never had to deal with significant demands on their time for non-football pressures. Herman, with his time at Ohio State, is possibly the best prepared. Also, Herman has been a successful OC not only with tOSU's talent. His offenses were excellent at Rice and Iowa State before coming to OSU. Of the three, he would be my top choice.
4) Kirby Smart with Pep Hamilton at OC
Pros- Tenure at Alabama shows terrific ability to recruit. Sound defensive scheme with robber principles.
Cons- A Smart hire would mean Babcock is completely cutting ties with the past and no Bud (although I could see them make a pitch to keep Gray.) Smart uses a 3-4 2 gap defense, which requires monster defensive linemen to eat blocks. Personnel wise, the scheme would be beneficial to players like Houshun Gaines and Tremaine Edmunds, who have good size yet are comfortable standing up. Inside linebacker would be a huge problem. Nose tackle would be a huge problem (settle down folks, he is a three technique 4-3 DT.)
Wildcard: Brent Venables/Pat Narduzzi
1) If Babcock is cutting ties with Foster, the ideal scenario would be to find a similar defensive minded head coach that has a similar philosophy. Venables has put out great defenses at Clemson the last couple of years even with a high speed offense. He uses a 40 front, one gap scheme that relies on edge speed. He is a DC at a large, upcountry land grant school. He recruits the southeast head to head with SEC schools.
Narduzzi had top 10 defenses every year at Michigan State. He also runs a 4-2-5 look with aggressive safety play- one gap. His recruiting classes were similar to VTs (more second tier based on national recruiting rankings.)
Both Narduzzi and Venables differ from Bud in that their system uses more size tackle to tackle and plays more north south. I have not seen as much slanting in their defenses. They have also had more luck putting front seven players in the NFL, and that would be attractive. Venables also could potentially bring one of Clemson's co-OCs with him.
I would also like Matt Rhule.
Absolutely not to RichRod. I don't know why, but watching Matt Campbell's offense the other night... I just didn't get a good feel that he would bring anything more than same ole stuff to the ACC. I like Mark Richt the man. I don't know if he addresses the issues in Blacksburg right now. Butch Jones has recruited a spectacular crop of defensive linemen (Kyle Phillips was my top recruit on the board last season) but his insistence on using Jalen Hurd, a stud I formation tailback just like Gurley, Forunette, and Chubb, and have him in the goofy spread running sideways is asinine.
I have a counter set of pros and cons for your Foster scenario.
Pros - continuity, sure. I don't know why that is the most important factor, but it may be a plus for some things, like sustaining our existing instate recruiting relationships. Another pro is, we have defensive talent suited for Bud's scheme, and if a good DC came in and installed a traditional 3-4 or 4-3 our general lack of pro-potential front 7 talent would be a detriment.
Cons - Everything else related to continuity. Retaining current coaches speaks to an unwillingness to evolve and modernize. We'd be clinging to a pro style offense in a region with talent more suited to the spread. And we'd still have trouble recruiting pro-caliber talent in the defensive front seven.
Also, merit and longevity are poor factors upon which to select an HC - over the years Foster has not proven he is HC material to anyone outside of the VT fanbase. And his recruiting con is a huge burden and makes the whole continuity argument a total wash.
First of all, Foster has repeatidly said in interviews that he would run a tempo based spread offense.
This is another misconception. Just because he's taken limited head coaching interviews, and none of the 3-4 interviews have panned out does not mean that he's forever unqualified to be a head coach. He's unproven as a head coach, more so than any other candidate. But then again, none of the candidates we're talking about are locks by any means.
This is my main concern around Foster for head coach - can he change the recruiting culture at VT? I'm not convinced he can't. He lost Nnandi and Sweat, but he got Settle after a lot of work. Can he continue with the momentum?
I was responding to French's specific scenario, in which he has Pep Hamilton as OC. You bring in Pep if you want to run a pro style offense, like he did at Stanford. Had he said 'Bud as HC, with [fill in the name of a spread guru who learned at the feet of Urban or Kelly or whoever] as OC, I would be singing a different tune.
I didn't say he was forever unqualified. We are listing pros and cons here, and what I mentioned - even when stated the way you did - is definitely a CON. There's no way you can spin it into a PRO - you can do what a lot of people do when they are characterizing their favorite candidates and just ignore it or rationalize it away. Objective analysis forbids this kind of tactic.
Right, but again, his recruiting is, on balance, taking things as they are and not how you hope they will be, a CON. You are are essentially agreeing that it is, but then saying, 'but I have faith he'll be able to change.' This makes pro-con based comparisons meaningless - you rationalize away your favorite candidate's shortcomings but take everyone else's at face value.
No candidate has all pros and no cons. Each candidate will be faced with mitigating his shortcomings in order to be successful. But the shortcomings are there. The best we can do is honestly assess a candidate so that we know, 'if we get this guy, he's what to expect.'
If we knew what Whit was looking for, it would make this comparison a lot easier for us in message board land.
I don't think this is true. At least, not based on my interactions with others outside of our fanbase. Most people I've spoken to would be surprised if we hire anyone but Bud Foster. They think he's the obvious choice.
What I meant was, any 'decision makers' outside the VT fanbase. Anyone in the top programs who has evaluated Foster for head coaching potential.
For outside fans, I might assume Foster would be an obvious choice, but then again they don't monitor our discussions or have access to the insight we have. They don't know the issues on the table.
Oh My god thank you.
Two of our potential candidates square off tonight if anyone is interested.
Morris Vs. Rhule 8 pm on ESPN2
I'd like to see an ideology of offensive/defense comparison between our potential candidates and how each particualr system fits our current players
I don't think it would be a good idea to hire a coach based on current players because they might only be around a year or two. You limit your options seriously that way. You might have a down year or two at first til the coach gets his recruits in place. You just try to make the best with the talent that's there to fit the coach the first couple of years.
I wasn't saying hire the coach based on our current players. But say Herman's system matches closely with our players and Morris's system doesn't. Both seem to be splash, hot hand hires, but the man who can step in and have the tools for his system already here might be able to make program changing strides earlier in his career. It's definitely not a deal breaker, but it could be a reason to try for a certain coach more than others.
I'm really warming up on Rhule. Given great interviews, reading up on his philosophies and seeing him coaching is moving him up in my book.
I'm just not impressed with Rhule. Sure he's done good things with Temple but the loss to ND killed it for me. I'll take Fuente who beat Ole Miss over Rhule any day. Still need to see more of the rest except Richt. He's a very safe hire. No RichRod or Smart either. I'd like to keep bud as DC and get someone who can recruit and field an offense.
I am not a huge Rhule fan either, but why would a hard fought loss to the number 5 team in the country cause you to dismiss the guy completely?
Please explain your rational for the ND win making Rhule being RULED out for you?
Knowing Whit's history hiring coaches at Cincy and VT, I'd say there is a chance the next coach is a guy that we had know idea was even available.
A lot of us (including myself) have been dismissing Bud. Two years ago before the last two less than stellar defenses most of us were all for him. People say he is a bad recruiter but the area he actually covers it seems we have gotten a lot of those recruits. The 757 where we have lost all that talent was not Buds area. I never have understood why that was not made his area. Anyone know? His area on the recruiting map the last I saw was not very much. Granted he had to help close the deal but still makes me wonder what kind of recruits we would get if he talked face to face with the kids more. I think BS gets some of his recruiting reputation simply by where he covers. Anyone have any input that could enlighten me on this?
Im hearing that Whit has reached out to see if Chuck Norris might be interested in running ALL the coaching positions.
Many don't know this, but Chuck Norris has been in every Star Wars movie; he plays The Force.
I like Fedora a lot.
Herman or Morris, please.
I was really high on Fuente before his loss tonight. Granted this was the first game I watched of his, but he seemed very reliant on his NFL QB. Reminded me a lot of Lefty's first year here. They were playing from behind, much of the second half, however, and that might be the reason the play calls were like that.
Also saw a lot of bubble screens in the first half which bring back some nightmares, not that bubble screens are inherently bad, I just saw too many in a short period of time.
I think he will be a decent coach, but not a great one to be honest. Looks like he need NFL talent to succeed.
Has anybody suggested the most obvious choice, standing right under our noses? First ever player / coach Sam Rogers.
I've tried to read all the posts and comments about the HC search but haven't heard the name Jeff Brohm he has done quite well at Western Kentucky and is an offensive minded guy likely to keep bud. He is 44 years old with 6 years in the NFL. Any thoughts?
I think turning a program that was literally the worst in the FBS to a winning team is phenomenal, however I think the leap from WKU to a powerhouse P5 school is too big of a leap. He wouldn't be a bad hire from someone like Illinois but I think it's too risky for someone like us to pick him up.
Powerhouse? I would hardly call Tech a powerhouse in the last 5-10 years. Probably a lot closer to Illinois than you realize
What!!!
Putting a program that has gone to 22 straight bowl games, has had a consistently top notch defense, and had 10+ win seasons from the late 90s to 2011 (I forgot the exact starting year off the top of my head) on the same level as Illinois is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard. Sure we have been mediocre for the past 4 years but trust me, Tech is still a strong program with a lot of tradition.
Illinois has 5 national championships and 15 conference championships. And it wasn't Acc football were talking Big 10 big boy football, historically speaking. So I guess you're right Tech is nowhere on their level
So we probably shouldn't go with Fuente, Herman, Morris, Campbell, or Ruhle then?
less than 2 days ago in this very thread :)
Maybe he doesn't decide to coach at Tech, but you have to be wondering whether Gary Patterson decides to coach elsewhere. TCU decided to move to the Big 12 so it wouldn't be snubbed in the rankings. Last year they were snubbed in the playoff selection because their schedule was deemed too weak. Apart from their loss to OK State yesterday, they seemed to be in the same boat that they were in last year. Long story short, it seems that it's near impossible for TCU to win a national championship given that it's very difficult for them to make the playoffs and they're stuck in the floundering Big 12 (think Buzz in the Big East). If Whit decides to pull the bunny out of the top hat without any if us expecting it, my bet is on Patterson.
I would absolutely flip if we got Patterson. That would be an all star hire.
Bud deserves it and he will instill a lot of passion into the team and fanbase. OK, he has one con. If that was his annual review, like we all have to deal with, you take steps to solve that. I am sure he could do that since TG would now be doing the DC Xs and Os.
Why is Pep Hamilton's Pro style offense better than Loeffler's? I am just wondering as I am no SME on this. I think recruiting continuity matters. We need Josh Jackson to stay with VT. Our offense is getting better and its true potential has not been visible yet due to this season's circumstances.
Other than to the recruits, this is the only people that matter. Note that the fanbase includes our university administration. Recruits will see VT staying loyal to a guy that was the Keystone to building VT football brand with Beamer and gets guys to the NFL - they will respect that message. That says a ton.
Do. It.!